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[01:49] <ds> someone want to thwack some ubuntu maintainers for not sending patches upstream for me?
[01:50] <Burgundavia> ds: which packages?
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[01:56] <ds> Burgundavia: liboil0.3, mainly
[01:56] <ds> I just looked at the changelog, and saw a bunch of stuff that nobody ever told me about
[01:56] <ds> which is totally uncool
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[01:59] <Christopher> helo i want to report something
[01:59] <Christopher> delire from #ubuntu sent me
[01:59] <LaserJock> Christopher: a bug?
[01:59] <Christopher> yes
[01:59] <Burgundavia> wiki.ubuntu.com/ReportingBugs
[02:00] <Christopher> thanks
[02:00] <LaserJock> Christopher: you should file a bug report at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu then
[02:00] <Christopher> im doing it now
[02:00] <Christopher> bye
[02:01] <LaserJock> Christopher: great, thanks for helping out
[02:03] <Christopher> no problem
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[02:07] <LaserJock> ds: does the link to the patches at http://packages.qa.debian.org/libo/liboil.html help?
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[02:11] <LaserJock> ds: or are you looking for specific bug reports filed?
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[02:21] <jmg> hey guys
[02:21] <jmg> my locales are horked. crimsun is giving me rubbish about how not to use dpkg-reconfigure locales. if this isnt used anymore, shouldnt the debconf script be changed?
[02:22] <jmg> if dpkg-reconfigure locales is no longer supported, what is the supported way to regenerate locales?
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[02:23] <crimsun> rubbish? lovely.
[02:23] <jmg> note i'm using ubuntu-minimal 
[02:24] <jmg> hi crimsun
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[02:26] <jmg> i think the ubuntu-minimal depends is horked somehow. something must be missing
[02:30] <LaserJock> jmg: you are talking about that perl error, right?
[02:37] <jmg> LaserJock: yes
[02:38] <LaserJock> jmg: I got similar error in a chroot, but not in a real install
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[02:38] <LaserJock> jmg: do you have a langpack installed?
[02:39] <jmg> LaserJock: probably not. i'm on ubuntu-minimal
[02:40] <LaserJock> jmg: the locales are in the langpacks I believe
[02:41] <crimsun> I don't have any language-pack-\* installed, and I don't get the locale warnings from Perl.
[02:43] <LaserJock> crimsun: no langpacks? hmm, I thought all the locales where moved there
[02:45] <LaserJock> jmg: for my chroot I just exported LC_ALL=C
[02:49] <jmg> LaserJock: cheap ;)
[02:49] <LaserJock> well, it was because of my chroot, not Dapper
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[02:53] <jmg> LaserJock: im on a debootstrap install here
[02:53] <LaserJock> jmg: ok, so it is probably the same thing
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[04:59] <jmg> hunger: you about?
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[05:47] <unstable> The security cert from bugzilla.ubuntu.com expired on 10/04/05 09:20
[05:47] <unstable> Anyone want to update the certificate?
[05:48] <unstable> And in the future...where is the right place to give this information?
[05:49] <Lathiat> a good question
[05:50] <Lathiat> i guess no one sbothered sine BZ isnt in use now
[05:54] <Burgundavia> unstable: bugzilla is obsolete
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[06:14] <dieman> bah, its too bad the support engineer position is so far away from ehre ;)
[06:14] <dieman> here
[06:16] <Burgundavia> dieman: montreal is a lovely place to live
[06:16] <dieman> yah
[06:16] <dieman> but im not a citizen, which probally wouldn't be an issue
[06:16] <Burgundavia> dieman: are you a US citizen?
[06:16] <dieman> and my wife would be against moving
[06:16] <dieman> yah
[06:17] <Burgundavia> dieman: you can get a work visa under NAFTA
[06:17] <Burgundavia> where do you live currently?
[06:17] <dieman> ahh cool
[06:17] <dieman> minneapolis
[06:18] <dieman> the climate doesn't scare me
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[06:18] <Burgundavia> you also get to enjoy evil Canuckistani socialized medicare
[06:18] <dieman> that would be the second sticking point :)
[06:18] <bddebian> Heh, you beat me to canuckistan :-)
[06:18] <dieman> wife has a cronic illness and gets resonable healthcare here.
[06:18] <dieman> im lucky enough to work for a state-sponsored university
[06:18] <Burgundavia> bddebian: only Canucks are permitted to call it Canuckistani
[06:19] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:19] <dieman> which has resisted the urge to tell us to to all die instead of having healthcare
[06:19] <Burgundavia> Quebec also probably has the worse healthcare in all of Canada, tbh
[06:19] <dieman> heh
[06:19] <dieman> why is that, anyhow?
[06:19] <Burgundavia> long lines, not great funding
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[06:20] <dieman> never been to quebec really, just ontario and manitoba
[06:20] <Burgundavia> lots of politics with healthcare in Quebec
[06:20] <dieman> and manitoba was for the fishing
[06:20] <infinity> Is it wrong to admit that I sometimes miss living in Alberta?
[06:20] <infinity> Probably.
[06:20] <dieman> i know theres a private system of some sort in canada too though
[06:20] <dieman> but it all seems really wacked out
[06:20] <Burgundavia> dieman: yes, it is called teh US
[06:21] <dieman> hah
[06:21] <bddebian> Ah infinity, you are becoming a master of eluding me :-)
[06:21] <Burgundavia> what is wacked is having the poorest 1/3 of your population not insured in anyway
[06:21] <dieman> yeah
[06:21] <dieman> we are strange
[06:21] <dieman> minnesota is much better than most
[06:21] <LaserJock> hmm, I lived not all that far from Canada in Montana but never made it across the border
[06:21] <Burgundavia> health crap is a probably the biggest reason I have never considered a job int he us
[06:22] <dieman> oh
[06:22] <dieman> if you have a job your usually fine
[06:22] <dieman> and if you can afford it when you lose your job
[06:22] <HrdwrBoB> Burgundavia: not really
[06:22] <dieman> COBRA benefits can help
[06:22] <Burgundavia> the other wacked thing is that the US spends the most per capita on health of all the G8 countries
[06:22] <dieman> but are $$$
[06:22] <HrdwrBoB> Burgundavia: the problem is requiring insurance in the first place
[06:23] <Burgundavia> HrdwrBoB: yes, I agree
[06:23] <bddebian> COBRA is outrageous to pay
[06:23] <infinity> bddebian: It's an art.
[06:23] <dieman> yeah
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[06:23] <dieman> COBRA is $$$
[06:23] <bddebian> infinity: So I'm told :-)
=== bddebian gets no love
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[06:24] <Burgundavia> bddebian: I see lots of .desktop love
=== LaserJock give bddebian a hug from the whole MOTUScience team
[06:24] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[06:24] <bddebian> Burgundavia: Well I guess it's all my dumb ass can handle :-(
[06:24] <Burgundavia> bddebian: ah, don't be so self deprecating
[06:24] <LaserJock> I'm the US dholbach. We have global coverage now ;-)
[06:24] <dieman> Burgundavia: its 6.7% of citizens in minnesota
[06:25] <dieman> Burgundavia: in 2004 were uninsured
[06:25] <bddebian> MN? Egads, that's like the Arctic.. ;-P
[06:25] <dieman> it got worse from 2001 to 2004 since the right wingers cut healthcare to the poor
[06:25] <dieman> bddebian: so is canada :)
[06:25] <bddebian> Good point
[06:26] <dieman> it was warm this week
[06:26] <dieman> its 11C outside right now
[06:26] <dieman> or 52F
[06:26] <LaserJock> heh, healthcare for the poor. They get better health care than I do. Stupid university :(
[06:26] <dieman> yeah
[06:26] <dieman> i love how that works too
[06:26] <dieman> the inbetween section
[06:27] <dieman> i was in that area for student loans
[06:27] <dieman> where i get shit for financial aid, but shit from my parents because they can't afford it
[06:27] <dieman> (at the time)
[06:27] <LaserJock> exactly
[06:28] <dieman> but they've been kicking around everyone being insured here in MN
[06:28] <dieman> and coming up with ways to help with compliance
[06:29] <LaserJock> I'd probably go the other way and give less insured but lower costs of healthcare
[06:29] <dieman> but i *do* know that canada will not let my wife become a citizen
[06:29] <dieman> due to her healthcare costs
[06:29] <HrdwrBoB> ouch
[06:29] <dieman> after reading the rules on it once a few years back
[06:29] <LaserJock> that would make a difference?
[06:30] <dieman> its something about you have to be expected not to be more expensive as another canadian's healthcare for your first 5 years
[06:30] <dieman> so they have you take a physical, etc.
[06:30] <dieman> and if the doctor says your not healthy then it doesn't work out i guess.
[06:30] <dieman> im guessing theres variances and stuff
[06:31] <dieman> but i basically decided against trying to figure out what the procedure would be at that point
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[06:33] <LaserJock> has the date for the next dev conference been set?
[06:33] <dieman> ive been wondering that too
[06:33] <dieman> i want to show up and help out with specbuilding
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[06:38] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, dieman, no, due to the change in dates for dapper release
[06:38] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: is the city set? I've heard somewhere in Germany
[06:39] <Burgundavia> so have I
[06:41] <dieman> ooo
[06:41] <dieman> that would be cool
[06:41] <dieman> i can fly there from here easily via amsterdam
[06:41] <dieman> sadly on expenso-klm
[06:41] <dieman> but work pays
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[07:29] <pitti> Good morning
[07:29] <pitti> hey fabbione 
[07:30] <fabbione> morning pitti
[07:33] <na7e> howdy pardners
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[07:56] <dholbach> good morning
[07:57] <Treenaks> hi
[08:01] <spacey> moin
[08:02] <na7e> morning people
[08:02] <na7e> it's 1 am here
[08:07] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: re bug 33523, I'm not sure if it has gone away yet.  Though, it appears that gss now has forgotten that I asked it to always ask for a password.
[08:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33523 in gnome-screensaver "g-screensaver starts after idle period, regardless of user input" [Major,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33523
[08:08] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: pong
[08:08] <TheMuso> Did you see my bug report re casper?
[08:09] <TheMuso> I was going to talk to you directly, but when you didn't respond within 48 hours or so, I thought a bug report would be better as I have been busy this apst weekend. :)
[08:09] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: given that I came back from a three-day vacation without network access last night and just now sat down and looking at scrollback, no, not yet.
[08:09] <TheMuso> Ok.
[08:09] <TheMuso> No problem.
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[08:29] <jmg> anyone know Malcolm Yates?
[08:30] <jmg> canonical guy?
[08:30] <lifeless> yes
[08:31] <jmg> is he on irc?
[08:33] <lifeless> mdy on freenode
[08:34] <jmg> lifeless: thanks
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[08:56] <Mithrandir> pitti: cupsd is eating 100% cpu here when upgrading.  Is this known?
[08:56] <Mithrandir> it seems to be busy doing:
[08:56] <Mithrandir> write(6, ptrace: umoven: Input/output error
[08:56] <Mithrandir> 0xfffffffff8621de9, 133959602) = -1 EFAULT (Bad address)
[08:56] <Mithrandir> gdb gives me:
[08:56] <Mithrandir> #0  0x00002aaaab2bc0d2 in __write_nocancel () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
[08:56] <Mithrandir> #1  0x00002aaaab193d7f in cupsFileGetChar () from /usr/lib/libcups.so.2
[08:56] <Mithrandir> #2  0x00002aaaab19422c in cupsFileFlush () from /usr/lib/libcups.so.2
[08:56] <Mithrandir> as the useful bits of the backtrace.
[08:57] <pitti> Mithrandir: no, not known to me so far, but I didn't yet wade through all of its bug reports
[08:58] <Mithrandir> pitti: I've seen it sometimes before too, but I'm not sure what the steps to reproduce are.
[08:58] <infinity> Grr, why are people randomly reassigning my bugs to other people/teams?
[09:00] <pitti> doko: ping (about cups)
[09:03] <doko> pitti: pong
[09:04] <pitti> doko: you said that you rather want me to ship cups' ppd files in /u/s/cups/model and add /usr/share/ppd/cups-included -> /u/s/c/model, right?
[09:05] <pitti> doko: I didn't understand the reason for that; to avoid symlink loops, we need to fix all packages anyway
[09:05] <pitti> doko: or do you want to ignore /u/s/ppd completely for dapper?
[09:06] <pitti> doko: (symlink loops: /u/s/cups/model/<otherpackage's symlink> -> /u/s/ppd/otherpackage)
[09:06] <doko> no, ship it in /usr/share/ppd/cups-included and add /u/s/c/model/cups-included -> /usr/share/ppd/cups-included
[09:07] <sivang> morning all
[09:09] <pitti> doko: what should this /u/s/c/model/cups-included symlink be good for?
[09:09] <pitti> hi sivang
=== sivang hugs pitti 
[09:10] <doko> pitti: IIUC the spec, ppd files should by looking at /usr/share/ppd, not /u/s/c/model
[09:13] <doko> not awake ... ppd files should found by looking at /usr/share/ppd, not /u/s/c/model
[09:14] <pitti> doko: right
[09:14] <pitti> doko: and since cups doesn't look into /u/s/c/model *at all* any more, why should we put stuff there?
[09:15] <pitti> doko: (*at all* is true for my current test version I sent to you)
[09:15] <infinity> doko: Oh, BTW, two things.  The buildds *CAN* resolve localhost just fine (though I double-checked, and freshened the chroots a bit), and if you have a python2.4 upload that stops the testsuite from looking for the internet, please upload it.
[09:15] <infinity> doko: Some may not have been able to resolve their own IP (ie: sejong.buildd would have had no idea how to get to "sejong" or "sejong.buildd", though it could do localhost fine), but that should be resolved too.
=== infinity runs off to get a very late lunch.
[09:17] <doko> infinity: ok
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[09:18] <infinity> doko: Oh, and if you mistakenly rely on /etc/hostname anywhere, instead of `hostname` (though I doubt you or upstream would make that mistake), don't.  Sine the chroots are shared between buildds, it's obviously impossible for /etc/hostname to be correct.
[09:18] <infinity> s/Sine/Since/
[09:18] <doko> pitti: but this was my mail about on Sat, it's a nightmare to find out all packages which currently look at /u/s/c/model. without having symlinks there, they would not the the ppd's provided by cups
[09:19] <doko> s/the the/see the/
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[09:20] <pitti> doko: aah, I understand - you mean that should fix other printer spoolers than cups, not other packags which provide PPDs for spoolers?
[09:20] <pitti> hey carlos 
[09:20] <carlos> morning
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=== sivang hugs carlos 
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[09:24] <doko> pitti: right, AFAIK in the long term they want to point /usr/share/cups/model -> /usr/share/ppds (and this symlink should be managed by cups), so packages providing ppds don't have to care about making them available for a spooling system
[09:27] <pitti> doko: alright, that makes sense then
[09:27] <pitti> thanks
[09:27] <pitti> doko: otherwise, the current version works for you? (it does fine for me)
[09:28] <pitti> doko: btw, /usr/share/cups/model can't be a symlink as long as other packages ship files in that directory
[09:28] <lifeless> ogra_ibook: ping
[09:29] <pitti> doko: so I'll wait with adding that symlink until all the PPD providing packages are fixed, right?
[09:29] <doko> at least for my OfficeJet, yes
[09:29] <mdke> pitti, is it difficult to add a locale to mozilla-firefox-locales-all?
[09:30] <pitti> mdke: as long as there is a working XPI, it's relatively easy
[09:30] <mdke> pitti, a working XPI is a translation, right?
[09:31] <pitti> mdke: not necessarily, XPIs can contain any kind of extension
[09:31] <pitti> mdz: other way round: a working translation must come in an XPI
[09:31] <mdke> right
[09:31] <mdke> so you need a translation before you can add it
[09:32] <mdke> thanks
[09:32] <pitti> mdke: obviously :)
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[09:33] <mdke> pitti, well I was wondering whether you can add the locale which defaults to English where the translation exists. np
[09:33] <pitti> mdke: I didn't understand that
[09:34] <pitti> mdke: you mean the translation is already installed, but ffox doesn't use it because you don't have the corresponding locale?
[09:34] <mdke> no, no
[09:35] <mdke> pitti, i was just curious about how it works. I wondered if you can add a locale to firefox without having a translation, or a full translation
[09:35] <lifeless> mdz: around ?
[09:36] <pitti> mdke: hm, I'm not sure, but it should work
[09:36] <pitti> mdke: if you base a new translation on the en-US.xpi one, then you only need to change the bits you want
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[09:37] <mdke> pitti, cool, thanks
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[09:37] <dholbach> heya mvo!
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[09:39] <mvo> dholbach!
[09:40] <mvo> dholbach: rock-star
[09:40] <doko_> hi plaudertasche
[09:40] <dholbach> :)
[09:40] <doko_> ;)
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[09:57] <Mithrandir> fabbione: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/23691 might be yours/xorg's.
[09:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 23691 in xkeyboard-config "Latin Keyboard Layout wrongly recognized as 'Laos'" [Major,Needs info]  
[09:57] <Mithrandir> you probably need to change la => latam on upgrades from old versions.
[09:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: WEEEEHHHHHHHH
[09:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: go ahead and fix it :)
[09:57] <Mithrandir> fabbione: enjoy. :-P
[09:58] <Mithrandir> fabbione: iz not xkb bug.
[09:58] <fabbione> well you change a layout...
[09:58] <fabbione> you get to fix it on upgrades :P
[09:58] <Mithrandir> I can't touch X's configuration files.
[09:59] <fabbione> neitgher can i :)
[10:03] <dholbach> mdke: I'm just about to do a gnome-user-docs update - I wondered, why is their source tarball 2,3 MB (resulting package 1,7MB) and the ubuntu-docs tarball 15,7 MB (and the resulting package 637K)? :-)
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[10:04] <lifeless> dholbach: languages ?
[10:05] <dholbach> lifeless: i built the package locally - so there are no stripped translations
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[10:15] <Mithrandir> mdke: I haven't done anything on the kubuntu-docs update as I have been on vacation and am still busy trawling my mail.
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[10:25] <mdke> Mithrandir, no problem. 
[10:25] <mdke> dholbach, must be superior compression in ubuntu-docs :p
[10:26] <mdke> it's all the images
[10:26] <hendry> is there a way of telling the date of a daily CD from the gfxboot phase?
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[10:27] <hendry> good day Kamion 
[10:30] <jordi> fabbione: ping ping
[10:32] <fabbione> jordi: pong
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[10:36] <fabbione> jordi: POOONG
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[10:57] <pitti> infinity: are the amd64 live image generation cron jobs active? I just got an rsync speedup of 709.10 (760 kB received), that seems unrealistic...
[10:57] <pitti> similar for ppc
[10:58] <infinity> pitti: Maybe nothing in desktop/live changed? :)
=== infinity goes to look and make sure.
[10:59] <infinity> Or, maybe it's not installable, and hasn't been for days.
[10:59] <infinity> WOO.
=== infinity looks into that.
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[11:01] <infinity> Wow, sweet.  gnome-app-install, update-notifier, and update-manager are all uninstallable.
[11:01] <infinity> It's an mvo surprise!
[11:01] <pitti> :/
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: so you are back in bug fixing instead of CD playing :p
[11:02] <ajmitch> lucky mvo
[11:02] <seb128> s/in/to
[11:02] <mvo> infinity: *cough*
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: instead of espresso bug filing :)
[11:05] <infinity> mvo: Looks like unattended-upgrades needs a promotion.
[11:05] <infinity> mvo: Have you provided pitti the appropriate inclusion reports and such?
[11:06] <mvo> infinity: it's software we have written, last time a (formal) report wasn't required then
[11:06] <infinity> mvo: An informal one, then? :)
[11:06] <pitti> mvo: ^ works for me
[11:07] <mvo> pitti: let me know your needs, I'll write it up
[11:07] <Mithrandir> seb128: it seems it's impossible to assign printscreen as a hotkey.  The applet the complains that it'll be impossible to use the key and asks me to use something with shift, control or alt.
[11:08] <pitti> mvo: would be nice to note down the daemons and security boundaries (only invoked as root, network ports, and so on); but I don't really need a report for our own software
[11:08] <seb128> Mithrandir: yeah, that's known and reported downstream and upstream
[11:08] <Mithrandir> seb128: 'k. :-)
[11:09] <mvo> pitti: so the ball is in kamions court now :) ? 
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[11:09] <pitti> Kamion: ^ fine for me to promote unattended-upgrades (pathologic case anyway)
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[11:21] <pitti> doko: ok to upload cupsys? or are there any blockers?
[11:23] <radone> Greetings, I have just installed ubuntu and packages gcc, g++
[11:23] <radone> but after compilation simple program it reports: mikrodes.c:1:19: error: stdio.h: No such file or directory
[11:23] <Kamion> pitti: ok, will do once the publisher finishes
[11:23] <Mithrandir> radone: install build-essential
[11:23] <radone> thanks
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[11:24] <Kamion> (actually, infinity'll do it as practice)
[11:24] <doko> pitti: please go ahead, I don't see any
[11:26] <pitti> doko: uploaded
[11:26] <pitti> doko: so your package upload rave can start, too :)
[11:27] <doko> pitti: yes, waiting for some UVF exception approvals
[11:28] <mvo> doko: all openoffice.org-l10n-* and openoffice.org-help-* stuff was renamed (from openoffice.org2- to openoffice.org-), correct?
[11:30] <doko> mvo: yes, and we have some *2 transition packages
[11:30] <mvo> ok
[11:30] <mvo> but the future is with *2?
[11:31] <mvo> errr
[11:31] <mvo> without *2?
[11:31] <mvo> ^--- doko
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[11:33] <doko> no future for *2
[11:33] <infinity> Does anyone know why we have libglitz1-dev in the supported seeds, despite nothing {build-,}depending on it?
[11:33] <infinity> If I don't get a useful answer in about 30 seconds, I'm dropping it. :)
[11:33] <pitti> do it! :)
[11:37] <infinity> Trunk pooped.
=== mvo sings in his best punk voice "no future, no future, no future for you"
[11:38] <infinity> popped, too.
[11:38] <Unfrgiven> Kamion: ping
[11:40] <infinity> Oh, wait.
=== infinity sighs.
[11:40] <infinity> OpenOffice build-deps on glitz, but doesn't end up linking to it.
[11:40] <infinity> Special.
[11:40] <pitti> infinity: then it still shouldn't be seeded...
[11:41] <infinity> doko: Why does OOo buil-dep on glitz?
[11:41] <infinity> pitti: Well, that's also true.
[11:41] <doko> infinity: includes some header files, in ooimpress
[11:42] <Kamion> Unfrgiven: yes? (reduces round-trip times if you include some content with your pings)
[11:42] <infinity> doko: And then doesn't link to it?
[11:42] <infinity> doko: That's sketchy...
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[11:43] <Unfrgiven> Kamion: sorry about that. I was told that I should ping you about ubuntu membership. i was approved as a member in a CC meeting but havent been added to the ubuntu members list in launchpad.
[11:44] <hunger> Is it normal for kern.log and syslog to go way over 200MiB?
[11:44] <Unfrgiven> Kamion: if you are busy, we can do this some other time.
[11:44] <Kamion> Unfrgiven: what date was the meeting in question, so I can dig up IRC logs?
[11:45] <Unfrgiven> Kamion: im trying to dig up the logs myself, it was well over 6 months back. ill just have a look now
[11:46] <ajmitch> Kamion: may 24th, 2005
[11:46] <ajmitch> (for the CC meeting in question)
[11:46] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: wow, impressive that you remember. aw shucks ;P
[11:47] <ajmitch> Unfrgiven: grep is a wonderful thing
[11:47] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: if you already have the logs, yeah
[11:47] <ajmitch> I have a bad habit of keeping them around
[11:48] <hunger> I have cups' access_log eat up all my space in /var in secounds. What might be causing that?
[11:48] <hunger> It is not even a text file...
[11:48] <Unfrgiven> Kamion: 12:35 in case you want the time too.
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=== Kamion looks irritatedly at all the people who randomly say "++" in meetings thus making it impossible for him to grep for that
[12:03] <Lathiat> why would you grep for ++?
[12:04] <Kamion> voting for membership approvals
[12:04] <Lathiat> ah you mean people say it outside of that sort of thing?
[12:04] <Kamion> that's not the problem, it's when a vote is in progress but people who aren't actually entitled to vote on the matter use the same phrasing as those who are
[12:05] <infinity> The "me too" instinct is a strong one.
[12:06] <infinity> If you changed the voting procedure to involve saying "I'm a complete tool!" to show approval, you'd still get just as many people chiming in, but it would at least be more entertaining.
[12:09] <Kamion> Unfrgiven: right, approved you for ubuntumembers now, also simira and uniq who had also slipped through the cracks from the same meeting
[12:09] <Kamion> that meeting was before we were tracking membership properly in Launchpad, and you only applied to join the team nearly five months after the meeting so we didn't make the connection
[12:10] <Unfrgiven> Kamion: ok thanks very much.
[12:10] <jordi> fabbione: ooh
[12:10] <jordi> fabbione: I had to leave :)
[12:10] <jordi> fabbione: ping #2
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[12:11] <Unfrgiven> Kamion: one last question, how do i activate my @ubuntu.com e-mail? i just tested it and the mail bounced. what is my ubuntu.com address?
[12:12] <jordi> fabbione: are you aware of the ubuntu kernel having some patch to improve the performance of the IDE subsystem on ICH7/Intel 945 motherboards?
[12:13] <jordi> fabbione: with any Debian kernel, scping a large file, for example, sees a progressive drop of the transfer rate from 10Mb/s to some kbs after some seconds
[12:13] <jordi> installing is also a lot slower than usual
[12:13] <jordi> scping to /dev/null is fast
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[12:13] <jordi> ie, the transfer rate keeps at 10
[12:13] <mjg59> jordi: Only thing that springs to mind is having the PCI IDs for the hardware
[12:14] <jordi> mjg59: I can get them from a Ubuntu install. Sarge doesn't have a clue of most of them
[12:14] <jordi> mjg59: give me a sec
[12:14] <jordi> ubuntu works ok, I forgot to say that
[12:14] <jordi> and ugh, gentoo
[12:15] <mjg59> jordi: Sorry, that's what I meant - Ubuntu may know the PCI IDs for the hardware, and so bind sensible drivers to them
[12:15] <mjg59> You may be running ide-generic
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[12:17] <fabbione> jordi: BenC is the kernel maintainer
[12:19] <fabbione> jordi: it's probably due to load module order
[12:19] <fabbione> jordi: check if you have ide-generic loaded in debian
[12:20] <jordi> mjg59: ok
[12:20] <jordi> so, we did hack a bit to get ide-generic loaded before piix-sata
[12:21] <jordi> er, -ata
[12:21] <fabbione> after
[12:21] <jordi> because, if piix-ata was loaded first, the CDROMs would not work.
[12:21] <jordi> (with 2.6.8 from sarge)
[12:22] <jordi> but, iirc, a etch d-i beta did have the same problem with undetected cds
[12:23] <fabbione> jordi: ok.. the problem doens't exist in Ubuntu.. so we are ok.. anything else.. though luck :P
[12:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: the keyboard indictor doesn't seem to pick up changes in the keyboard settings done with setxkbmap + xkbcomp.  Is this known?
[12:24] <jordi> I guess that's friendly enough...
[12:24] <seb128> Mithrandir: I think there might be a bug about that
[12:25] <Kamion> Unfrgiven: I understand that it gets done semi-automatically after you're added to the ubuntumembers team; you do not activate it yourself
[12:26] <Kamion> Unfrgiven: it may take a day or so, though. if it still doesn't work after that, ask on #launchpad
[12:26] <Unfrgiven> Kamion: will do, thanks very much for your help.
[12:26] <Kamion> Unfrgiven: the address is constructed from your launchpad name, so it'll be ankur.kotwal@ubuntu.com
[12:27] <Unfrgiven> Kamion: just what i was after.
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[12:55] <Kamion> doko: thanks for that foomatic-db change, I appreciate the extra CD space
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[01:03] <Lure> Kamion: ping
[01:04] <Kamion> Lure: hi
[01:04] <Lure> I wanted to follow instructions from bug 31974, but most of boot line is wrapped :-(
[01:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31974 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu "Kubuntu Dapper Flight 4 - Boot menu boots into a kernel panic" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31974
[01:04] <Kamion> Lure: how much can you see?
[01:04] <Kamion> oh, Kubuntu
[01:04] <Kamion> try Ubuntu
[01:04] <Lure> I just get "Install on << (press ESC)"
[01:04] <Lure> I did try ubuntu
[01:05] <Kamion> so "Install on " is at the start of the line?
[01:05] <Lure> yes
[01:05] <Kamion> that's not wrapping, that sounds like the cause of the bug
[01:06] <Kamion> please add that information to the bug
[01:06] <Lure> you mean, empty boot line?
[01:06] <Lure> will do
[01:06] <Kamion> *wrong*, not empty
[01:06] <Kamion> for comparison, today's live CD:
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[01:06] <Kamion> "live boot=casper initrd=/install/initrd.gz ramdisk_size=1048576 root=/dev/ram rw qui..."
[01:06] <Kamion> the human-readable label - "Install on" - shouldn't be in there at all
[01:07] <Lure> interesting...
[01:08] <Kamion> oh, really "Install on", not "Install to"?
[01:08] <Kamion> because there's no "Install on" in the set of labels on the install CD
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[01:08] <Kamion> but there is "Install to first hard disk"
[01:08] <Kamion> er, "Install to the hard disk"
[01:08] <Lure> now you got me - I did not write it down, as I expected something else...
[01:09] <Lure> I will reboot and write it down this time (char by char) ;-)
[01:09] <Kamion> thanks
[01:09] <Lure> brb
[01:12] <doko> Kamion: don't be happy too early ... we'll have to include some PPD files for Postscript printers.
[01:12] <Kamion> will those grow the package back to the original 12MB?
[01:15] <doko> I'm afraid, maybe yes. foomatic-db only includes the -xml files, linuxprinting.org-ppds (currently in universe) the ppd files for the laser printers. I'll still have to look, what was included in breezy
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[01:16] <heno> Kamion, Mithrandir: Just to let you know I've just merged in a seed change following the instructions in SeedManagement. Hope I didn't break anything :)
[01:17] <heno> (it might be worth having a look though)
[01:18] <Lure> Kamion: my mistake - it does not seem that wrong now - see bug 31974
[01:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31974 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu "Kubuntu Dapper Flight 4 - Boot menu boots into a kernel panic" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31974
[01:18] <Lure> it is just cut to the level that I do not know if it really helps....
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[01:22] <doko> Riddell: qt ping
[01:22] <Riddell> doko: hi
[01:23] <Kamion> Lure: interesting, ok, so it's massively truncated inside gfxboot-theme-ubuntu
[01:23] <Kamion> Lure: thanks, yes, I think that does help; the truncation alone indicates a bug
[01:23] <Kamion> consistently cut to 10 characters
[01:23] <Lure> Kamion: ok, then it is not just debug print cut-off (wrapping)
[01:23] <Kamion> heno: I don't see anything from you in the seeds
[01:24] <Kamion> heno: did you remember to push the change?
[01:24] <Lure> Kamion: if you need anything else just ping me or request in bug...
[01:24] <Kamion> Lure: will do, thanks
[01:25] <heno> Kamion: the first push was rejected due to a conflict. I merged and I'm pushing again now
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[01:30] <doko> Riddell: is there some environment variable for QT, where to look for qt plugins?
[01:31] <Riddell> doko: you can set QTDIR, but that might break things
[01:31] <doko> nothing else?
[01:31] <doko> QTDIR is /usr/lib?
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[01:33] <Riddell> you can set /etc/qt3/qtrc too
[01:33] <Riddell> this is for amd64 32bit libs?
[01:34] <Riddell> QTDIR is /usr generally
[01:36] <pitti> hi Riddell 
[01:36] <pitti> Riddell: any news from that kdeprint guy?
[01:37] <Riddell> pitti: no :(, I told him yesterday we'd need a reply in the next couple of days
[01:37] <pitti> ok, thanks
[01:37] <doko> Riddell: yes, for amd64
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[01:39] <doko> Riddell: and probably /etc/qt3/qt_plugins_3.3rc is needed as well
[01:41] <Riddell> doko: where are the 32bit qt plugins and where is that directory set?
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[01:43] <doko> Riddell: ia32-libs-kde installs into /usr/lib32/qt3/plugins
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[01:46] <doko> Riddell: #36859 tells, that /usr/lib/qt3/plugins/inputmethods/libqscim.so is accessed
[01:48] <Riddell> bug 36859
[01:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36859 in kernel-package "wrong arch ppc on powerbook with kernel 2.6.16 and kernel-package 9.001ubuntu5 - 9.001ubuntu15 " [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36859
[01:48] <Riddell> not the right one?
[01:49] <doko>  bug 36589
[01:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36589 in openoffice.org openoffice.org-kde "KDE Openoffice.org cannot load scim library" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36589
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[01:55] <Riddell> doko: maybe we need to compile qt3 again for ia32libs with -sysconfdir  "/etc/qt3ia32"
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[01:56] <doko> Riddell: currently trying some other dirty tricks which I played for pango
[02:07] <Mithrandir> Riddell: http://err.no/patches/kubuntu-docs_5.10-0.6.2_fix_about_kubuntu_path.diff ; Are you ok with me uploading this?
[02:12] <Riddell> Mithrandir: /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html seems to be the correct directory
[02:13] <Mithrandir> Riddell: not according to that bug report, since that is what it currently is.
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[02:15] <Riddell> Mithrandir: oh, didn't see it was breezy
[02:16] <Riddell> Mithrandir: yeah, that's fine then
[02:16] <Mithrandir> Riddell: excellent, thanks.
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[03:23] <Amaranth> fabbione: bug 26341 has a patch available that supposedly fixes it
[03:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 26341 in xserver-xorg-driver-i810 "[i855]  dual-head configs are ill" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26341
[03:24] <HiddenWolf> "ill"
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[03:33] <pirast> where's keybuk?
[03:35] <desrt> on the surface of the sphere
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[03:51] <HiddenWolf> desrt: between heaven and hell. ;)
[03:54] <Riddell> Kamion: on_list_changed in gtkui.py seems to end with a for..else block, is that some form of python I've not seen before or as I suspect a mistake in indentation?
[03:54] <bddebian> infinity: You awake?
[03:54] <Kamion> Riddell: some form of python you've not seen before :)
[03:55] <Kamion> Riddell: http://docs.python.org/ref/for.html
[03:55] <Chipzz> Riddell: for else is something specific
[03:55] <Chipzz> +python
[03:55] <Kamion> Riddell: immensely useful syntax which cuts down on random break statements
[03:55] <Kamion> well, not break statements, random 'found' variables or whatever
[03:56] <Chipzz> Kamion: it can only be usefull when using break ;)
[03:56] <Riddell> interesting
[03:56] <Kamion> so instead of "for foo in bar: if foo == 'bar': found = True; break" // "if not found: ...", you do "for foo in bar: if foo == 'bar': break" // "else: ..."
[03:56] <Riddell> Kamion: kde espresso should be good to merge currently
[03:57] <Kamion> Chipzz: yeah, was a thinko
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[03:57] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks, am just finishing off the choose-mirror/apt-setup work I just pushed
[03:58] <Kamion> (so you'll need to do debian/rules update)
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[04:08] <Riddell> Kamion: in gtk what's the difference between set_sensitive and set_active?
[04:08] <Riddell> or where would I find that out?
[04:08] <Mithrandir> active is what gets pushed when you press enter, sensitive means you can push it.  I think.
[04:08] <Kamion> Riddell: sensitive is the greyed-out state, active is checked/unchecked
[04:08] <Kamion> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2reference/class-gtkwidget.html#method-gtkwidget--set-sensitive
[04:09] <Kamion> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2reference/class-gtktogglebutton.html#method-gtktogglebutton--set-active
[04:09] <Riddell> aah, thanks
[04:09] <Riddell> how come when I google for stuff like that it always come up with python docs and not C docs?
[04:10] <Kamion> "what gets pushed when you press enter" per Mithrandir is has_default
[04:10] <Kamion> or widget.grab_default() I guess
[04:10] <Mithrandir> Riddell: docs.gnome.org (or what it's called) seems to have terrible google-fu for some reason.
[04:10] <Kamion> Riddell: the Python docs and the C docs are pretty much equivalent (and equivalently-readable) in most cases; the Python API is pretty good like that
[04:11] <Kamion> these days I use the pygtk docs almost regardless of whether I'm using C or python :)
[04:11] <Kamion> (not that I do much C GTK programming)
[04:11] <Kamion> Riddell: anyway, http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2reference/index.html is my bookmarked starting point for pygtk docs
[04:11] <Riddell> thanks
[04:12] <ogra> Kamion, if i do: "command| while read x; do; echo x; done" in an udeb postinst, i always get "illegal number" as soon as i try to use debconf commands like db_progress STEP or db_progress INFO ... is there anywher a doc about redirecting in udeb scripts ? 
[04:12] <Mithrandir> ogra: don't do that.  debconf takes your stdio.
[04:12] <Kamion> ogra: no, but see archive-copier.postinst for an example workaround
[04:12] <ogra> ok
[04:12] <Kamion> down near the end
[04:13] <ogra> whats that illegal number error about ? 
[04:13] <ogra> (it usually gets strings not numbers)
[04:13] <Kamion> it's because you're using db_* inside the while loop (I assume)
[04:13] <ogra> yep
[04:13] <Kamion> debconf uses stdin/stdout for its own communication
[04:13] <Kamion> so the db_progress command tries to read from stdin, which it expects to be debconf, but which is actually command|
[04:14] <Kamion> it expects the first thing on each line to be something which it can use as the argument to 'return'
[04:14] <ogra> yeah
[04:14] <Kamion> and so return gives "illegal number"
[04:14] <ogra> ah, k
[04:14] <ogra> hmm, i see, i have to fiddle with file descriptors 
=== pitti sighs at Kino - that's a good candiate for dropping into universe...
[04:15] <Kamion> while there's no documentation on doing this with udebs in particular, it's not a udeb thing, it's a debconf thing; so debconf-devel(7) may help
[04:15] <ogra> (actually i stole from this archive.copier script, but omitted the redirection)
[04:15] <ogra> ok
[04:15] <Kamion> and I even put a comment there. :-)
[04:15] <Kamion> # Using fd 9 is a bit ugly; debconf gets in the way of random other fds.
[04:15] <Kamion> (because cdebconf actually uses more than just 0/1/2)
[04:15] <ogra> heh, yes, i wrote the script at 4am saturday night ... i probably was a bit tired :)
[04:16] <Mithrandir> we should rather fix debconf to not use stdio.
[04:16] <Mithrandir> I have that code lying about here somewhere and should fix it up for inclusion in Debian
[04:16] <Mithrandir> (so it'll trickle down to us in a bit)
[04:17] <Kamion> piping from a command (as opposed to reading from a file) using fd9 is, er, tricky; can't immediately think of how to do that
[04:17] <ogra> achieveable for dapper ? (then i'll wait, else i'll work on the workaround)
[04:17] <Kamion> unfortunately mkfifo isn't available in busybox or you could use a fifo
[04:17] <Kamion> although mknod is, I guess you could use that
[04:17] <Chipzz> Kamion: http://chipzz.studentenweb.org/pybookmarks.html ;)
[04:18] <Kamion> otherwise, if command completes quickly, just redirect its output to a temporary file and use similar code to archive-copier.postinst
[04:18] <Kamion> Chipzz: neat
[04:18] <ogra> its not completing quickly :/
[04:19] <ogra> (its ltsp-client-builder progress reporting)
[04:20] <Kamion> in that case, 'mknod /some/temporary/path p; command >/some/temporary/path & while read x </some/temporary/path; do ...; done; wait'
[04:20] <Kamion> or something along those lines
[04:20] <Kamion> oh, and rm -f /some/temporary/path afterwards
[04:20] <ogra> thanks :)
[04:20] <ogra> will try that ...
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[04:21] <Kamion> ogra: I don't think Mithrandir's cdebconf-unixsocket work will go into dapper now
[04:21] <ogra> yep, thats what i thought
[04:21] <Mithrandir> yeah, it's dapper+1 material
[04:31] <Kamion> Riddell: your branch reverts a change of mine in d-i/Makefile; I'll ignore that diff, but you probably want to sort it out in your branch
[04:31] <Kamion> -                       (export NO_PKG_MANGLE=1; \
[04:31] <Kamion> -                        cd "$(SOURCEDIR)/$$package" && \
[04:31] <Kamion> +                       (cd "$(SOURCEDIR)/$$package" && \
[04:31] <wasabi> If anybody wants to mess with gapti... it pretty much works now:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GAptI
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[04:32] <Kamion> Riddell: would you mind renaming gparted_to_mountpoints in kde-ui at some point? it's confusing :)
[04:33] <Riddell> strange, I'm sure I never touched d-i/Makefile
[04:33] <Riddell> Kamion: rename to qtparted you mean?
[04:33] <Kamion> Riddell: yeah
[04:33] <Riddell> I thought it less confusing to keep method names the same where possible
[04:33] <Kamion> it confused Daniel and me a while back when we were grepping for gparted
[04:34] <Riddell> ah :)
[04:34] <Kamion> I wouldn't mind renaming both to a common name if you'd prefer that
=== Kamion merges
[04:34] <Riddell> sure, I can do that
[04:34] <Kamion> you missed a bit in the frontend-independence fix for usersetup.py, BTW ... fixing that up now
[04:35] <fabbione> Amaranth: supposely or does it fix?
[04:36] <Kamion> Riddell: pushed, thanks for that lot
[04:38] <Kamion> Riddell: have you had a look at the i18n infrastructure at all? it's a bit idiosyncratic
[04:39] <Kamion> since we're pulling it all out of debconf
[04:40] <Riddell> Kamion: no I havn't yet, that's todo after I've got the mountpoints page working properly
[04:41] <Riddell> there's still the strange qstring unicode problem I was having to be fixed
[04:41] <Kamion> mm
[04:41] <Kamion> feel free to put your todo items on UbuntuExpress/ToDo if you like, BTW
[04:41] <Kamion> I left a slot for them :)
[04:41] <Riddell> they were at KubuntuEspresso but that's quite out of date now
[04:42] <Riddell> I'll move them over to your page when I update that
[04:42] <Kamion> cool
[04:43] <Kamion> I'm hoping you can use the same text as the GTK frontend, but if there are any KDE-specific strings that we should be pre-emptively adding to the templates file, let me know ... better to get them translated ASAP
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[04:44] <Kamion> the template names kind of assume the widget identifiers currently used by the GTK frontend; I hope it'll be possible to keep those in sync
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[04:49] <zul> heylo
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[05:02] <Fade> !conv 250 gbp cad
[05:02] <Fade> missend
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[06:06] <Surak> Kamion: there?
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[06:13] <Kamion> Surak: hi
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[06:14] <Surak> Kamion: I'm using friday's dapper live. Espresso has a very small keyboard listbox. I can't see the full layout names for my language. Can it be wider?
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[06:16] <Surak> Kamion: is occupies only a small portion of the window. The rest of it is empty. It could be widened. What do you think?
[06:18] <Kamion> Surak: known issue, on the to-do list
[06:19] <Kamion> inconveniently hard to solve though
[06:19] <Kamion> well, to solve properly anyway
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[06:19] <Kamion> anyway, report a bug if you like
[06:20] <Surak> ok
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[06:30] <ogra> hmm, using a fifo only works if i dont do any processing of the line ... splitting it with sed or similar things make it stop at random lines ...
[06:30] <ogra> looks like a race condition or something :/
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[06:46] <ogra> ohoel, its not stuck, it reads in chunks ... but takes ages ...
[06:46] <ogra> grr
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[06:46] <ogra> s/ohoel/oh/
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[07:02] <dholbach> ogra: new gnome-screensaver for you :)
[07:02] <ogra> oooohhh !!!
[07:02] <ogra> yippie 
[07:02] <dholbach> yeah :)
[07:03] <dholbach> ogra is happy again. :-)
[07:03] <ogra> dholbach, thanks a lot, you might save my day :)
[07:03] <ogra> as far as i can be in my current RL situation, yes :)
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[07:09] <mdz> lifeless: am now
[07:10] <infinity> mdz: BTW, that re2c changelog for the UVF exception I was after is here: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/re2c.changelog
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=== bddebian pounces on infinit
[07:10] <bddebian> Err infinity even
[07:11] <infinity> bddebian: Pounce in about 7 or 8 hours, please.  It's many hours past my bedtime. :)
[07:11] <bddebian> Gah
[07:11] <infinity> bddebian: I have your diff up on my screen still, I may just fix it when I have some free time and mail you my findings.
[07:11] <bddebian> Fair enough
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[07:12] <heno> does anyone know if Espresso can be run purely from the command line?
[07:13] <heno> we got this email from a blind sysadmin who would like to install on multiple machines
[07:13] <heno> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-accessibility/2006-April/000245.html
[07:14] <heno> a good solution for him might be to boot live CDs and then ssh into them and run espresso
[07:14] <heno> possibly scripted
[07:17] <Mithrandir> heno: it can't.
[07:17] <mdz> infinity: short and sweet
[07:17] <Mithrandir> heno: there has been a bit of effort to get d-i running with a braille frontend.  Unsure what the state is there, though.
[07:17] <mdz> infinity: what's the symbol table reimplementation about?
[07:19] <heno> Mithrandir: braille would be nice, but having something run in pure CLI in a booted session would be great, because then you could just SSH in and run it from a system already set up with full access
[07:19] <Mithrandir> heno: there's an ssh-server udeb, usually used by s390 installs.
[07:20] <heno> Mithrandir: so that let's you ssh into a running d-i session?
[07:20] <Mithrandir> heno: yes.
[07:20] <Mithrandir> (basically)
[07:20] <Mithrandir> heno: I'm not sure exactly how the details there work, though.
[07:20] <heno> ok, I can ask the guy to look into that
[07:21] <heno> Are there any major technical obstacles to making a CLI front-end for espresso though?
[07:22] <heno> yiu would think that was much easier than the gui one
[07:22] <infinity> mdz: Just looks like general code cleanup to me: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/re2c.symboltable.diff
[07:22] <Mithrandir> heno: it'd be called "d-i". :-)
[07:22] <heno> :)
[07:23] <Mithrandir> heno: espresso is "just" a fairly complicated set of custom widgets to drive a selected set of d-i.
[07:23] <Seveas> Mithrandir, well, not really, espresso doesn't mimic d-i too much
[07:23] <heno> So d-i just needs to learn to run from a live CD session like espresso does
[07:23] <Seveas> you could call it espresso-decaf
[07:23] <bddebian> heh
[07:23] <heno> installing to a chosen HD
[07:24] <Seveas> and I still think the kde frontend should be kappucino
[07:24] <sivang> re all
[07:25] <mdz> infinity: that diff isn't very comprehensible without context, but if re2c is in main it's as a build-dep, and if the dependents continue to build, I'm OK with it
[07:26] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, like I said, it just looks like minor code cleanups to me (and the obvious one or two bugs fixed, which some upstream claim they want, hence the versioned autoconf checks)
[07:27] <infinity> mdz: I don't pretend to fully understand re2c, however (nor bison, flex, or any other such twisted tools)
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[07:28] <infinity> mdz: I'll make sure to sping it's rdeps before I sync it, however.
[07:28] <infinity> s/sping/spin/
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[07:40] <mdz> infinity: sping sounds like a good name for an sbuild-based rebuild test tool
[07:40] <bddebian> Damn, flight5 is taking forever on this POS Celeron machine :-(
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[07:50] <sabdfl> Kamion: during package installation, is it possible for a postinst script to look into the queue of other packages to be installed?
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[07:51] <KaiL_> hmm, MacOS has a toiol to migrate data from Windows - might be an idea for ubuntu too... automatically import emails, comy media files and add them to rhythmbox, copy documents and so on ;)
[07:51] <KaiL_> -i
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[07:52] <elmo> sabdfl: not in any sane way, no
[07:53] <sabdfl> elmo: so there's no way to see a list of unconfigured packages?
[07:53] <elmo> you can see the state of packages, yes, including which ones are unconfigured
[07:53] <elmo> but that's not equivalent to knowing which other packages are due to be installed
[07:54] <elmo> (i.e. there's no "I'm due to be upgraded" or whatever state)
[07:55] <elmo> ('cos 'state' is at the dpkg level, not apt or higher)
[07:56] <Burgwork> KaiL_, there are specs on the wiki for that
[07:56] <KaiL_> ah, nice
[07:56] <Burgwork> however spec != code
[07:56] <KaiL_> as always - the world is full of great ideas, but they need to get implemented
[07:59] <LaserJock> KaiL_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SwitchingFromWindows is at least a help
[07:59] <sivang> elmo: oh, I recalled you pinged me the other day? 
[07:59] <KaiL_> LaserJock, reading that remembered me of that tool ;)
[08:00] <Burgwork> KaiL_, there is some linux code from openmoveover
[08:00] <Burgwork> just need to write a windows tools
[08:00] <elmo> sivang: it was just about the account, if it's working, it doesn't matter
[08:02] <KaiL_> Burgwork, might be something for dapper+1
[08:03] <Burgwork> KaiL_, I think it is more a case of the community doing it
[08:03] <Burgwork> speaking of community work, sivang ...
=== sivang screams and runs away
[08:04] <KaiL_> Burgwork, why not a tool in ubuntu for that? as MacOS has...
[08:04] <sivang> Burgwork: I'm cranking on it as we speak :-) 
[08:04] <Burgwork> KaiL_, there are two parts. We already have the Ubuntu side, in openmoveover
[08:04] <sabdfl> elmo: reason i;m asking is that we spend quite a lot of time updating the font cache during a d-i install
[08:04] <sabdfl> we do it like 15 times
[08:04] <Burgwork> we need a windows program to take the data and burn it onto a cd
[08:05] <sabdfl> and it would be a big timesaver to defer that until the last font package was being configured
[08:05] <sabdfl> sort of "peek into the queue, yes there are otherunconfigured font packages, ok so i won't do the font cache"
[08:06] <elmo> sabdfl: oh, you don't need to peek into the queue, it should just be deferred - we already do that, for e.g. menu updates, and scrollkeeper (I think).  it just needs someone to either code the deferrment stuff, or implement generic hooks in dpkg for it
[08:06] <KaiL_> sabdfl, tried to install on a slow CPU? ;)
[08:07] <elmo> haha, slow CPU, haha
[08:07] <sivang> ?
[08:07] <KaiL_> then this problem starts to become a real one
[08:07] <sabdfl> elmo: :-p
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[08:08] <sabdfl> elmo: this was on the APC
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[08:08] <sabdfl> sivang: branch of what? bzr should be pretty quick on small branches even with lots of commits
[08:09] <sivang> sabdfl: well, it's not small anyore ;-) , and well, it has lots, and I mean lots of commits.
[08:09] <infinity> sabdfl: That's better handled by d-i diverting fc-cache, then running it once at the end.
[08:09] <infinity> Kamion: It's that meant to be done currently?
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[08:10] <infinity> Kamion: s/It's/Isn't/
[08:10] <sladen> sabdfl: the fc-cache request is done by the postinst scripts IIRC.  What I suppose fc-cache could do is be wrapped so that it accepts all the input and then actually does its work after 60seconds
[08:10] <pitti> hm, is it just me and a mutt bug, or do Malone email threads arrive 'backwards' for a few days/weeks now?
[08:11] <pitti> (sometimes)
[08:12] <sivang> sabdfl: see how fast you can branch it , http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~sivan/upbackup--main/ (might be my network, am checking)
[08:12] <trappist> pitti: I've noticed it on kubuntu-bugs
[08:12] <trappist> pitti: using kmail
[08:13] <infinity> sabdfl: OTOH, if you want to pay some folk to implement dpkg hooks once and for all, I don't think any of us would complain terribly about them suddenly appearing. :)
[08:14] <infinity> sabdfl: But for the installation case, we just handle these issue by diverting the binaries we don't want running, then running them all at the end of the installation.
[08:14] <sabdfl> infinity: sounds like a dapper+1 sort of thing, if you're up to it :-)
[08:14] <infinity> I made a personal vow to never touch dpkg code.
[08:14] <sabdfl> i've just noticed the install hanging regularly for a while as it does the fontcache thing
[08:15] <infinity> Then again, I made that same vow in relation to many other things I keep touching. :/
[08:15] <sabdfl> infinity: you could always figure out the appropriate bribes to get it higher on keybuk's list
[08:15] <sabdfl> erk. 
[08:15] <infinity> sabdfl: Yeah, that likely means Colin's missing a diversion in d-i.  Easy solution for the installation case (but that doesn't fix upgrades)
[08:15] <sabdfl> wish those two thoughts had not arrived sequentially
=== infinity smirks.
[08:16] <sivang> nope, it's not the network, seems fine. It's being terribly slow on the "fetch phase" 
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[08:20] <sivang> great, it suddenly finished :)
[08:25] <bddebian> infinity is still up?  WTF :-)
[08:25] <sivang> bddebian: guess it's one of his not sleep 3 days in a row days :)
[08:25] <bddebian> heh
[08:25] <hile> 2-12 jos muistan
[08:26] <hile> sorry, wrong channel... again
[08:30] <jordi> Riddell: ping
[08:31] <sivang> anybody mind that we drop the waiting time in cdrecord? I've seen it patched in other distros, it will make the user wait less when bunring his backup through HUB and I suppose other frontends could enjoy from it.
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[08:33] <trappist> sivang: can that be done in /etc/default/cdrecord, or must the source be patched?
[08:36] <sivang> trappist: seems the code must be patched.
[08:37] <infinity> sivang: Is a two-second wait really a huge problem for HUB users?
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[08:38] <Riddell> jordi: hi
[08:38] <KaiL_> hmm, still no gstreamer0.10-dvd?
[08:39] <sivang> infinity: you mean reducing the time to 2 seconds as the minimum allowed? 
[08:42] <KaiL_> infinity, as burning a CD normally takes below 1 min today, it might extent the overall time a lot
[08:43] <sivang> infinity: well, come to think of it, even with the 2 seconds, with al the waiting they have to do on the ISO building, and archiving, I'd like to cut wait time whereever I can. does it look like nitpicking in your opinion ?
[08:44] <jordi> Riddell: remember that kontact template?
[08:44] <jordi> it was broken, a html file was uploaded
[08:44] <Riddell> jordi: .pot file?
[08:46] <jordi> Robot101: yes
[08:46] <jordi> Riddell: yes
[08:50] <infinity> sivang: I think it's nitpicking, yes. :)
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[08:52] <Riddell> jordi: a .pot file is actually an HTML file?
[08:52] <Riddell> that's crazy
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[08:52] <jordi> Riddell: a pot file was uploaded to rosetta for kontact
[08:52] <jordi> the content was HTMl though
[08:52] <jordi> rosetta rejected it
[08:53] <jordi> can you do whatever necessary to get it uploeaded correctly?
[08:56] <Riddell> jordi: uploaded in the kdepim package or separately?
[08:56] <jordi> in the product series
[08:56] <jordi> https://launchpad.net/products/katapult/+series/kde-playground
[08:57] <jdthood> jordi: Hi there
[08:57] <Riddell> oh, katapult, that makes more sense
[08:57] <Riddell> ok, I'll poke mez
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[08:59] <jordi> oh, kontact
[08:59] <jordi> sorry
[08:59] <jordi> Riddell: tell him to upload all the pack, with po files
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[09:36] <Amaranth> fabbione: a user claims the patch fixes 26341 (late)
[09:36] <Amaranth> err, bug 26341
[09:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 26341 in xserver-xorg-driver-i810 "[i855]  dual-head configs are ill" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26341
[09:37] <infinity> pitti: Your cdbs upload fails in the test suite (fails 9 out of 10 tests; impressive)
[09:38] <pitti> infinity: wohoo, it worked just fine here
[09:38] <pitti> infinity: thanks for poking, will look at it
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[09:39] <infinity> pitti: Is it doing complete package builds in the testsuite?  If so, you may need to make use of that wonderful NO_PKG_MANGLE envvar. :)
[09:39] <pitti> infinity: ah, due to the clean_workdir failure, that rings a bell
[09:39] <pitti> infinity: no, it's much simpler I believe
[09:40] <pitti> infinity: it's just the test suite's cleanup function itself that fails
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[09:40] <pitti> . o O { which code actually tests test suites? }
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[09:40] <infinity> Oh, that does sound vaguely familiar.  I remember hunting something like that a year ago or so...
[09:41] <jcole> does dapper include the latest dri
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[09:42] <sivang> infinity: that is failing the automatedTesting tests ?
[09:42] <sivang> infinity: (nice that cdbs already has a test suite for that)
[09:43] <infinity> sivang: Lots of packages have test suites.  Doesn't have much to do with AutomatedTesting, per se.
[09:43] <sivang> infinity: yes, it's only a mattr of hooking it up to the AT magic I guess
[09:44] <bddebian> Sheesh infinity, do you EVER sleep? :-)
[09:44] <pitti> infinity: hm, no; I thought I dropped an Ubuntu patch I shouldn't have dropped, but that wasn't the case; anyway
[09:44] <infinity> bddebian: Sometimes.
[09:45] <pitti> bddebian: infinity's ACPI has some serious bugs :)
[09:45] <bddebian> Heh
[09:45] <jcole> fyi dudes, i get this error with samba.. just simply removed the "+" sign in smb.conf--> "params.c:Parameter() - Ignoring badly formed line in configuration file: +########## Domains ###########"
[09:46] <infinity> jcole: It's already fixed.
[09:46] <jcole> infinity: ok
[09:47] <pitti> 'rm: cannot remove `/build/buildd/cdbs-0.4.34ubuntu1/test/workdir/cdbs/debian/cdbs' -> strange
[09:48] <jcole> ah, i see a new xserver-xorg-core for dapper... looks like latest dri is in there
[09:49] <Seveas> pitti: filesystem remounted ro?
[09:49] <infinity> No.
[09:49] <pitti> Seveas: on the buildds? I don't believe that
[09:49] <Seveas> likewise, but pigs have flown before
=== infinity tests locally.
[09:50] <infinity> Man, cdbs has some bizarre build-deps.
[09:50] <pitti> yes, ocaml stuff and the like :/
[09:50] <sivang> infinity: it is just evil, isn't it?
[09:51] <pitti> some tools which generate the documentation use ocaml apparently
=== ogra wouldnt expect anything else from the "creating debs blackbox system"
[09:51] <sivang> anybody know how to adjust the contrast in a thinkpad? (not talking about the brightness Fn+home/end)
[09:52] <sivang> ogra: indeed.
[09:52] <infinity> FAIL: hdparm.sh
[09:52] <infinity> Okay, 1st thing.  I get different failures on a local build, but do get failures.
[09:52] <infinity> Second thing.  hdparm.sh?  WTF? :)
[09:52] <ogra> lol
[09:53] <infinity> Some logging on this testsuite sure would be nice.
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[10:01] <infinity> pitti: Okay, with pkgstrip enabled in my chroot, I get the 9/10 failures.  Using NO_PKG_MANGLE, I get one failure on hdparm.sh, which is clearly something else.
[10:01] <pitti> ah, cool
[10:02] <infinity> Hahaha.
[10:02] <infinity> cdbs has developed a build-dep on itself. :)
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[10:02] <infinity> (Or, we should disable the hdparm test)
[10:02] <infinity> dpkg-buildpackage: source package is hdparm
[10:02] <infinity> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: cdbs (>> 0.4.5)
[10:03] <infinity> (dapper)adconrad@cthulhu:~/cdbs/cdbs-0.4.34ubuntu2/test$ dpkg -l cdbs | grep ^p
[10:03] <infinity> pn  cdbs           <none>         (no description available)
[10:03] <infinity> (duh)
[10:03] <pitti> 'ooops'
[10:04] <infinity> Let me run the hdparm test by hand to make sure it passes, then I'll just upload with that test disabled.
[10:04] <infinity> I don't think I like the idea of cdbs build-depending on itself.
[10:04] <pitti> infinity: ah, debian bug 354361
[10:05] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 354361 in cdbs "Subject: cdbs: FTBFS: FAIL: hdparm.sh" [Serious,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/354361
[10:05] <pitti> infinity: I'll fix the test instead
[10:05] <infinity> Oh, yeah, I'll do that.
[10:05] <infinity> (I already have the rest fixed, so let me just upload) :)
[10:06] <pitti> alright :)
[10:06] <pitti> thank you
[10:06] <bddebian> infinity: Oh sure, I see where I rate.. :-)
[10:09] <infinity> Oh crap, it's 6am...
[10:10] <ajmitch> morning
[10:10] <pitti> hey ajmitch 
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[10:22] <Surak> Kamion: where does espresso gets the languages' names? u'Thai returns error on 0.99.42 on language.py line 61
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[10:38] <sivang> infinity: what has hdparm.sh with cdbs?
[10:38] <infinity> Is that sentence missing a few words?
[10:38] <pitti> sivang: it's just a test case which was based on the hdparm package
[10:42] <sivang> infinity: could be, too much PHP test engine mungling during the dayjob damaged my thought to speech engine..:)
[10:42] <KaiL_> ndiswrapper in dapper is rather old, as I just saw. newer versions making problems?
[10:42] <sivang> pitti: Ah, I see. thanks.
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[10:46] <Surak> Kamion: espresso 0.99.42 shows no languages for selection. The problem is that /usr/share/localechooser has no "thai". However, localchooser list it as available. espresso 0.99.42 must depend on updated localechooser-data-0.27ubuntu13 (it will fail with 0.27ubuntu11). Updating localechooser-data will fix this.
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[11:21] <dholbach> night guys
[11:22] <mdke> night dholbach 
[11:22] <dholbach> night mdke
[11:23] <Surak> night dholbach
[11:23] <dholbach> night Surak
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[11:46] <Surak> I closed one bug on espresso, but opened three. I think Kamion will not happy with me tomorrow :-)
[11:47] <sivang> heh
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