[12:09] <theCore> LaserJock: gedit default Tabs at 8 character
[12:09] <LaserJock> uggh
[12:10] <LaserJock> and it doesn't replace with spaces?
[12:11] <LaserJock> I usually like a 2 or 3 space tab
[12:13] <theCore> 3 spaces ?
[12:13] <theCore> uggh
[12:13] <LaserJock> what do you use?
[12:13] <theCore> it depend what I edit
[12:14] <LaserJock> what do you usually use for a line width?
[12:14] <theCore> but I try to keep my Tabs at 8 char
[12:14] <theCore> 80 char
[12:14] <theCore> 70 char for Text file
[12:15] <LaserJock> it seems like with 8 space tabs you loose a lot of space for writing
[12:16] <LaserJock> I usually do something like 100 char line widths to compensate for the tabs
[12:16] <theCore> well, if you use more than 4 tabs in a line, you have a problem anyways
[12:17] <LaserJock> I suppose
[12:18] <LaserJock> It is just easier for me if I use 4 space tabs max
[12:21] <mdke_> mmm? I use lots more than 4 tabs in a line sometimes

[12:21] <mdke_>         <para>
[12:21] <mdke_>                        <list>
[12:21] <mdke_>                                       <you get the point>
[12:23] <theCore> mdke_: for XML, I use 2 spaces
[12:24] <mdke_> hmm
[12:24] <mdke_> sounds like a good idea
[12:26] <LaserJock> I think it might be nice to have a set of recommended values (tabs, line widths) for the various editors (gedit, emacs, and vim)
[12:26] <poningru> mdke_: are you not maintaining the laptop testing page for presario 2100?
[12:27] <poningru> it seemed to have moved to the nonmaintained area
[12:27] <poningru> just making sure before I make a new partition on my laptop and switch it to dapper
[12:29] <mdke_> poningru, I haven't updated it much recently, everything works on it
[12:29] <poningru> oh ok
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <mdke_> theCore, oy
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <poningru> um...
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <poningru> !op
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:41] <theCore> FAG
[12:42] <poningru> ok nm
[12:42] <poningru> kb theCore porfavor
[12:42] <Seveas> mdke_, feel free to kickban theCore, he has been annoying on other channels too
[12:42] <mdke> Seveas, thanks for the permission
[12:42] <Seveas> mdke, rofl 
[12:43] <Seveas> that was quite badly stated
[12:43] <Seveas> almost sounded like i'm the policeman here :s
[12:43] <mdke> it did indeed
[12:43] <Seveas> didn't mean it that way
[12:44] <Seveas> I should get some sleep :/
[12:44] <Seveas> too much irc work today
[12:44] <Seveas> my apologies
[12:44] <mdke> np
[12:44] <poningru> ok theCore still remains
[12:45] <Seveas> poningru, as long as he's not misbehaving: why not 
[12:45] <mdke> likely to be someone else on his computer
[12:45] <poningru> oh really?
[12:45] <poningru> didnt think about that nm then
[12:46] <Seveas> I'm even inclined to believe that, he never caused trouble before
[12:46] <mdke> he's a valuable member of this channel, at any rate
[12:47] <mdke> theCore, an explanation wouldn't go amiss though
[12:48] <theCore> argh, not again!
[12:49] <Seveas> theCore, you should lock your pc when you walk away from it 
[12:49] <poningru> theCore: what happend?
[12:49] <poningru> child and/or little sibling?
[12:49] <theCore> Seveas: I forgot
[12:50] <theCore> my brother again ...
[12:50] <mdke> np, figured as much
[12:50] <Seveas> theCore, you should re-join #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic
[12:50] <theCore> Seveas: if this happen again, kick me as fast as possible
[12:51] <Seveas> theCore, already did that in those channels 
[12:51] <Seveas> be glad you have a good reputation, otherwise the "it was my brother" excuse wouldn't help ;)
[12:52] <LaserJock> theCore: again? bummer dude
[12:52] <theCore> Seveas: btw, how do I remove my away status
[12:53] <theCore> LaserJock: yes, him again
[12:53] <Seveas> theCore, /away
[12:53] <LaserJock> has he been unpluging your computer still?
[12:53] <theCore> Seveas: thanks
[12:54] <theCore> LaserJock: I got a laptop now, tough to unplug ;)
[12:54] <theCore> now he is laughing at me ...
[12:56] <crimsun> LaserJock: have you committed lately? I can't check yet.
[12:56] <LaserJock> crimsun: not since last night.
[12:56] <crimsun> ok. I pulled earlier, so I'll try to get to that if my Internet connectivity cooperates.
[12:56] <LaserJock> crimsun: I haven't had a chance to commit the "getting started" diff yet. I probably will soon
[12:58] <LaserJock> crimsun: as long as you keep doing one file at a time I think it will be fine.
[01:01] <theCore> LaserJock: I wrote something for the PG, today
[01:02] <theCore> LaserJock: it's about how modify existing packages
[01:02] <LaserJock> theCore: ah, send the diff if you can
[01:02] <theCore> LaserJock: well, that the point, it still as plain text
[01:03] <theCore> LaserJock: and I'm still wandering where I could include it
[01:03] <LaserJock> theCore: Updating Packages
[01:06] <theCore> LaserJock: it's not really about how to update package for the reposistory, but for making local changes to packages
[01:06] <LaserJock> theCore: what do you mean by local changes
[01:07] <theCore> LaserJock: doing package for yourself
[01:07] <LaserJock> theCore: is it very long?
[01:08] <theCore> LaserJock: no, but I want to add more stuff in it
[01:08] <LaserJock> theCore: so maybe we should wait for after the branch and add it to Dapper+1
[01:08] <theCore> LaserJock: that's my plan
[01:09] <LaserJock> theCore: ok, cool. just send it to me when your done
[01:11] <theCore> LaserJock: I will do some exercises too
[01:49] <LaserJock_away> hmm, did anybody happen to see my Visibility of "how to contribute" email to -doc?
[01:50] <Burgundavia> LaserJock_away: yep
[01:50] <LaserJock_away> Burgundavia: did it make sense, or am I totally off-base?
[01:51] <Burgundavia> I really only skim read it
[01:51] <Burgundavia> I will reread it now
[01:51] <Burgundavia> LaserJock_away: do you have a laptop that runs dapper
[01:51] <Burgundavia> ?
[01:51] <LaserJock_away> no, Windows :(
[01:51] <Burgundavia> ah, you poor bastard
[01:52] <Burgundavia> I had some concrete ideas for the fridge that died due to lack of time
[01:53] <LaserJock_away> I've got 1 Windows laptop, 1 Windows desktop, 1 Dapper desktop, and 1 OSX intel mac at work
[01:53] <Burgundavia> basically a "Doc of the wiki on the wiki"
[01:54] <LaserJock_away> I really need to get aquanted with the Dapper docs so I can start referencing them more
[01:55] <LaserJock> I'm sorry my email is so long. I get very wordy in email it seems.
[04:25] <crimsun> LaserJock: ping
[04:26] <LaserJock> yoh
[04:27] <LaserJock> crimsun: pong
[04:27] <crimsun> LaserJock: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch05s02.html#id2577039   -> The end of the first paragraph of Confirming problems seems ... odd
[04:28] <crimsun> Did you mean that to be a <title> instead?
[04:29] <crimsun> i.e., instead of: Forwarding bugs upstream </para>, use: <title>Forwarding bugs upstream</title>
[04:29] <LaserJock> crimsun: ah, probably. I copy-n-pasted most of that section and then docbookized it
[04:29] <crimsun> ok.
[04:32] <LaserJock> crimsun: are you all the way to the Bugs section?
[04:32] <crimsun> LaserJock: this is the third file I'm editing
[04:33] <crimsun> (I rarely edit sequentially for the first pass)
[04:48] <Burgundavia> ok, I am now officially scared. Canadians now have a Minister for Public Safety
[04:54] <LaserJock> why is that scary Burgundavia 
[04:55] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_of_Public_Safety
[04:55] <Burgundavia> everybody knows that minitries with names like "information" and "truth" and "public safety" usually do the opposite of what they appear
[04:57] <crimsun> it was only a matter of time
[04:57] <LaserJock> heh, I can imagine. That must be why they use Secretary in the uS
[05:32] <LaserJock> crimsun: man, your good. Thanks for the editing help.
[07:13] <LaserJock> arghh, has anyone noticed that in yelp the sidebar uses <title> to set the section title but the TOC uses xreflabel ?
[07:16] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, nice political comment on the vlug list :P
[07:17] <LaserJock> Madpilot: how many vlug members are there?
[07:18] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: had to get my digs in
[07:18] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: 35
[07:18] <Madpilot> no idea, actually. VLUG = Victoria Linux Users, btw
[07:18] <Burgundavia> ish
[07:19] <LaserJock> Madpilot: I know, I've been around you and Corey long enough ;-)
[07:20] <Burgundavia> about 20 actually show up at meetings
[07:20] <LaserJock> I've never been to a LUG
[07:20] <LaserJock> I think there is one 2 hrs drive away from me, over the mountains in California
[07:21] <Burgundavia> oh, wow --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Airplane_vortex_edit.jpg
[07:22] <LaserJock> that is a nice pic
[07:22] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, and people think aerodynamics are boring
[07:22] <Madpilot> :P
[07:22] <LaserJock> heh, don't tell that to my grandpa, he built rockets in the 50's
[07:23] <LaserJock> man on the moon with a slide rule kinda guy
[07:24] <Madpilot> cool
[07:24] <Madpilot> Cessnas are pretty tame, compared to rockets
[07:24] <LaserJock> he gave me his old slide rule and log tables not long ago
[07:24] <LaserJock> pretty cool
[07:24] <Madpilot> (but the Flying Club's new 172 is very shiny, and has very, very nice avionics)
[07:26] <LaserJock> lol, the only Cessna I've been in the first thing the pilot says is, "This thing is from Vientnam so if the door falls off it's ok"
[07:27] <Madpilot> I've had doors unlatch in flight on older 152s, it's not a big deal. The slipstream means it won't open too far, just an inch or so
[07:32] <Burgundavia> ok, this touchpad issue is driving me nuts
[07:32] <Burgundavia> basically for about 3 seconds of out of 10, it simply stops responding
[09:11] <mdke> every time you think a thread is gonna go quiet, some guy pops up and feels that he needs to reply to each mail on the thread separately
[09:11] <Madpilot> mdke, which thread? The long and getting silly "sudo is evil" thread?
[09:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh. still going? (hasnt read email for 3 days)
[09:12] <mdke> yes
[09:12] <Madpilot> you're not missing anything, Kamping_Kaiser 
[09:12] <mdke> I've got like 20 mails from one guy on the same thread
[09:12] <mdke> pah
[09:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: <grin> so it seems
[09:14] <Madpilot> apparently we're all supposed to have root accounts, with long and complicated passwords, to protect us from sudo - or something like that, anyway
[11:46] <mdke> looks like kubuntu.de is carrying out its threat
[11:47] <mdke> weirdos
[01:10] <mdke> highvoltage, nice blog post
[01:22] <robotgeek> morning authors
[01:33] <highvoltage> mdke: thanks, not sure how ppl would respond to it
[01:34] <robotgeek> hey highvoltage 
[01:34] <highvoltage> hi robotgeek 
[01:36] <robotgeek> highvoltage: how easy is to not make all posts get aggregated on p.u.c
[01:37] <highvoltage> robotgeek: what do you mean?
[01:38] <robotgeek> highvoltage: say, if i don't want every blog post of mine to go to planet.ubuntu.com
[01:41] <highvoltage> hmmm... i don't know.
[01:41] <robotgeek> highvoltage: nvm, i'll ask seth. i think he did something similiar on wordpress, which is my blogging "platform"
[01:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> do we have anything in the docs about how ubuntu Kubuntu+xubuntu are all the same system with a different ui? i just staretd to wonder now freeze has pasted ;)
[01:45] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: hmm, in the intro. 
[01:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> * -d
[01:45] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: but they are not, really :)
[01:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> robotgeek: repeat after me "they are" ;)
[01:46] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: well, anyways it does say in KDG that Kubuntu = Ubuntu base + kde
[01:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> robotgeek: i was thinking more something in /common/ as it should be a shared thing. *looks around the docs*
[01:47] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: well, nothing there, i think
[01:48] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: cause ubuntu-desktop tell people how to use Kubuntu, and vice versa :)
[01:52] <mpt> robotgeek, set up an "Ubuntu" category and get Planet to syndicate that instead of syndicating your entire Weblog
[01:53] <robotgeek> mpt: awesome, i gotta find jdub though. i already emailed him twice 
[01:54] <mdke> I'm not sure that planet supports categories
[01:54] <mdke> you might have to use a filter on topic
[01:54] <robotgeek> let me check if i can get categoru feeds  :)
[01:55] <mpt> yes, that's what I mean
[01:55] <mpt> In WordPress, every category has its own feed automatically
[01:55] <mdke> ah, well that will work
[01:55] <mpt> and afaik, Planet only knows about feeds, not about Weblogs and categories and such
[01:55] <mdke> the only thing planet doesn't manage to do is to separate categoriesw in a single feed
[01:55] <mdke> a separate feed would work fine
[01:56] <robotgeek> pings, err
[02:00] <robotgeek> mpt: thanks, that was easy :)
[02:14] <mdke> hi Unfrgiven
[02:14] <mdke> just noticed you've applied for the ubuntu-doc launchpad group
[02:15] <mdke> that group is the people who have access to the ubuntu-doc repository, I'm afraid we ask for people to submit some patches before granting access. You're very welcome to do so!
[02:16] <mdke> once you get granted svn access, you'll be added to the Launchpad group
[02:16] <Unfrgiven> mdke: Hi
[02:16] <Unfrgiven> mdke: I have been submitting patches to the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[02:16] <Unfrgiven> mdke: I've been sending them to Laserjock
[02:17] <mdke> Unfrgiven, cool! It would be good if you send them to the mailing list too, that way people can get to know you :)
[02:17] <Unfrgiven> mdke: I wrote the original IntroDeveloperDocs document from which the current Ubuntu Packaging Guide borrows pieces from
[02:17] <mdke> even cooler
[02:17] <Unfrgiven> mdke: yeah sorry about that. LaserJock told me to send diffs to him directly
[02:18] <Unfrgiven> mdke: i was hoping to become a member of the doc team so that I could upload my changes directly to svn. Laserjock said he was ok with this but i needed to be authorised.
[02:19] <Unfrgiven> mdke: in your eyes, am I eligible to be part of the team? or do I need to sumit patches to the list?
[02:19] <mdke> Unfrgiven, I think we'd prefer you to submit some patches on the mailing list first, that way we can see that you know what you're doing with docbook xml and so on. It may be a formality, but I think it would help
[02:20] <mdke> Unfrgiven, also, are you an ubuntu member?
[02:20] <mdke> we also ask that people get ubuntu membership before granting access
[02:20] <Unfrgiven> mdke: sure, no problem. would it speed things up if I sent you the patches Laserjock already incorporated? as a way of showing examples of my work?
[02:20] <mdke> ah, you are
[02:20] <Unfrgiven> mdke: yeah I am an Ubuntu member - since May 2005.
[02:21] <mdke> Unfrgiven, no, don't resend the patches, I'm sure Jordan can vouch for you
[02:21] <mdke> you may be aware that our docs are frozen at the moment in any case, so you won't need commit access immediately :)
[02:22] <mdke> but definitely hang around on the list, so that we can get to know you and see that you're familiar with our methodologies
[02:22] <Unfrgiven> mdke: oh yeah thats a good point. Laserjock mentioned that minor changes are still being accepted?
[02:23] <Unfrgiven> mdke: sure thing, will do.
[02:23] <mdke> in the case of the packaging guide, we're making some exceptions
[02:23] <mdke> but it's best if Jordan does those exceptions, as the document's present maintainer
[02:24] <Unfrgiven> mdke: sure no problem.
[02:25] <Unfrgiven> mdke: ill send any further diffs to the list from now on
[02:25] <mdke> Unfrgiven, great! welcome aboard
[02:25] <Unfrgiven> mdke: thanks :)
[02:27] <mdke> it will be great to have new blood on the packagingguide :) LaserJock_away has had his work cut out trying to look after it by himself
[02:28] <Unfrgiven> mdke: yeah he has the poor guy
[03:13] <onkarshinde> What is general process of cleaning up wiki. Should I add comment to remove a section or striaght away remove it?
[03:16] <onkarshinde> What is general process of cleaning up wiki. Should I add comment to remove a section or striaght away remove it?
[03:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> don't spam please
[03:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> and that would dpend what you mean by "clean up"
[03:18] <onkarshinde> Sorry for spam. For ex. I just viewed MOTU Candidates page. Some packages have already made into dapper. So I wanted to remove them.
[03:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> i don't see a problem with removing an entry and commenting to say it's in - you might ike to check with the motus to make sure they don't have a special method for that page
[03:21] <onkarshinde> ok. Also How can i add multiline comments (changelog) while saving a page? I mean I see sometimes comments with #01, #02 etc in them.
[03:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> i have no idea bout that I'm afraid
[06:57] <LaserJock> mdke: ping?
[06:57] <mdke> yep
[08:56] <LaserJock> mdke_: quick question about your translations email? how are the translations for the common docs given to both kubuntu-docs and ubuntu-docs?
[09:08] <mdke_> LaserJock, we get the translations from rosetta and then use them to create translated xml. then the packages get that in the usual way
[09:09] <LaserJock> mdke_: so the source packages get the translated xml?
[09:09] <mdke_> LaserJock, yes, everything is done like the english version
[09:10] <LaserJock> mdke_: ok, I'm getting my brain wrapped around translations :-)
[09:11] <mdke_> LaserJock, DocumentationTeam/Translation
[09:11] <LaserJock> now I just need to learn some languages so I can help translate ;-)
[09:12] <mdke_> :)
[09:14] <LaserJock> heh, raphink was trying to get me to learn esperanto or  ido
[09:14] <LaserJock> and I'm trying to get some German in there too
[09:14] <LaserJock> but it will be Dapper+10  before I could translate
[09:59] <frank23> LaserJock: yeah translating is hard (technical stuff is even worse) and I basically have 2 native languages
[10:02] <frank23> LaserJock: If you do a translation that is too literal it just sounds wrong yet you can't stray too much from the original
[10:02] <LaserJock> frank23: yeah, I can imagine it is tough
[10:03] <frank23> and I never know if I should translate the technical terms or not.  
[10:03] <LaserJock> I hope some translations of the packaging guide can be done though, even though it has more technical material
[10:14] <robotgeek> yay..translation time!
[10:22] <frank23> the only ubuntu doc I see available to translate in french is the server guide. the others are not available yet?
[10:23] <mdke> frank23, they are all there. did you follow the links I posted
[10:23] <mdke> ?
[10:24] <frank23> mdke: which links?
[10:25] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/ubuntu-docs/+translations
[10:25] <mdke> frank23, i mailed the links to translate the docs to the ubuntu-doc, ubuntu-translators, loco-contacts and rosetta-users mailing lists
[10:26] <frank23> mdke: I'll check
[10:29] <frank23> mdke: yeah it works
[10:30] <mdke> cool
[10:53] <frank23> gmail is nice for mailing lists.. It makes threads from the emails
[10:54] <mdke> yeah, I like that. evolution does it too
[10:58] <theCore> frank23: any good mail client do that
[10:59] <frank23> theCore: yeah? KMail too?
[11:00] <theCore> frank23: well, I don't know
[11:01] <theCore> frank23: but I bet it does
[11:01] <frank23> theCore: ok
[11:01] <theCore> frank23: just dig the docs a little bit, and you will probably find how to set it
[11:02] <theCore> frank23: else, KMail is not a good mail client
[11:04] <frank23> theCore: yeah I found the setting for it ;)
[11:08] <trappist> so does mutt
[11:08] <trappist> mutt's a great threader
[11:09] <theCore> trappist: I had Mutt in head when I said good client
[11:14] <trappist> <3 mutt.  but I'm a kmail guy now.
[11:16] <LaserJock> I just haven't figured out mutt yet. I'm almost totally useless in it. I do much better with pine at this point, but I'd like to figure mutt out.
[11:17] <trappist> it's worth figuring out.  much like vim :)
[11:18] <mdke> is there a mail client like gedit?
[11:18] <theCore> :D
[11:18] <theCore> mdke: write a mail client plugin for gedit ;)
[11:19] <theCore> (good luck)
[11:24] <LaserJock> that is the other mail client I haven't figured out. Evo hates my IMAP setup
[11:25] <LaserJock> so I stick to Mail.app and Thunderbird for the most part
[11:28] <mdke> i need imap email
[11:28] <mdke> i'm sick to death of my email provider
[11:29] <mdke> it only does pop and I get loads of spam
[11:31] <LaserJock> I recently got a gmail account, I still haven't figured out if I like it
[11:31] <mdke> i get loads of spam there too :-(
[11:31] <mdke> but it's japanese spam, so that's nicer than normal spam