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[12:35] <nictuku> spike, hi. Meyer told me you were interested in nwu
[12:36] <spike> nictuku: hi there
[12:37] <nictuku> spike,  can I help you?
[12:37] <spike> nictuku: I'd say best thing is if I paste you the convo we had in here a few hours ago
[12:37] <spike> can I do that in query or prefer pastebin?
[12:37] <nictuku> your call
[12:37] <nictuku> query, btw
[12:40] <spike> nictuku: done
[12:53] <nictuku> <nictuku> hmm
[12:53] <nictuku> <nictuku> you have a point there (btw, my english is bad, so forgive me)
[12:53] <nictuku> <nictuku> I confess I didn't know puppet. It seems a great idea, but neuralis mentioned something important for ubuntu, which would be the ruby dependency
[12:53] <nictuku> <nictuku> better take this discussion to the channel
[12:53] <spike> nictuku: I completely agree with that
[12:54] <spike> cfengine wouldnt pose the ruby prob, tho
[12:54] <spike> we can run it already
[12:54] <nictuku> By the way, nwu really needs something like adminotaur
[12:55] <nictuku> nwu is really a prototype by the way, there are no strings attached to where its future development should go. I just tried to stick the the spec
[12:56] <nictuku> nwu is immensely simpler than cfengine
[12:56] <nictuku> virtually no config is required
[12:56] <nictuku> it's not an "autonomic system" either.
[12:58] <neuralis> i think having nwu as a proof of concept system is very important. maybe we can have nictuku out at the next developer conference to sit down with the server team, and spec out where we really want to take it.
[12:59] <spike> well, as I said, whatever comes up I'd like to be involved in this
[01:01] <nictuku> neuralis, is there any date set? like just after dapper release?
[01:01] <neuralis> yes, it's usually very shortly after the release.
[01:04] <spike> what's in your opinion the quicket way to build an initrd image with ssh (dropbear maybe to reduce the size)?
[01:15] <nictuku> I haven't tried dropbear, but well, it claims to be smaller. I'm not sure how much speed you'd get in the end
[01:19] <spike> nictuku: more then speed I was worrying about memory consumption
[01:19] <nictuku> spike, do you use puppet and cfengine for sw management daily?
[01:19] <spike> but atm priority is figuring out how to do the whole thing
[01:21] <spike> nictuku: nope, I did some cfengine for the last place I worked for, and followed the development of puppet. hopefully I'll start over @ new place once I've took care of some priorities
[01:22] <spike> nictuku: I'm a newbie, just done my homework :)
[01:22] <nictuku> yeah me too.
[01:24] <nictuku> spike, I wonder how friendly puppet is for the administration if all he want is sw management/updates.
[01:25] <nictuku> with nwu is all about "aptitude install nwu-agent"
[01:25] <nictuku> then manage the nodes with a cli or pygtk tool
[01:26] <spike> nictuku: definitely it'd be trickier ,and I wouldnt ever swap nwu with puppet if all I wanted was sw management/updates
[01:27] <spike> nictuku: but nwu is just a part of what you want to admin a server farm, a config management must be there, and then you'd need puppet, which incidentally could deal with sw management as well, making nwu redundant
[01:28] <nictuku> asking if sysadmins would be interested in only sw updates is a valid question, actually.
[01:28] <nictuku> s/actually/indeed/
[01:28] <spike> nictuku: but really, guess it's worth keeping this on hold until you talk with the guys and got some specs for the future down
[01:29] <spike> nwu is nice and it's good it's there, for now that's what matters
[01:30] <spike> actually, about the whole assumption we need cfengine for config management...
[01:31] <spike> some of the RH guys developing their nwu solved the prob simply saying that config management is just a self-rolled pkg
[01:31] <spike> which is indeed true
[01:32] <spike> you could handle whole system config by simply rolling and distributing config packages, and besides true is also appealing imho
[01:33] <spike> nictuku: yet stuff like cfengine do a lot more, but with that we'd have two of the biggest prob covered, sw and config management
[01:33] <nictuku> cfengine is not the best config management system for an ideal world of debian/ubuntu-only server base hehe. debconf + ldap is interesting, although limited
[01:34] <nictuku> spike, nwu is not about "autonomic systems" as IBM would call it.
[01:36] <nictuku> I don't imagine a thousand unattended servers administration as a use case
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[01:58] <neuralis> nictuku: i have some concrete ideas about where i'd like nwu to go, and how it should integrate with the rest of the platform. that's why it'd be great to sit down with you at the dev conf and spec this out.
[01:58] <neuralis> nictuku: where do you live? do you think you'd be able to fly out to the dev conf somewhere in europe in june?
[02:02] <nictuku> that would be interesting. I live in Brazil. that would be something to think about
[02:03] <nictuku> btw, the world cup in june. i believe that makes it virtually impossible
[02:04] <spike> neuralis: oh, next dev cnf will be held in europe?
[02:04] <spike> neuralis: any chance to attend as "visitor"?
[02:04] <nictuku> neuralis, could you summarize some of these ideas?
[02:05] <Meyer> our biggest airline going to bankrupcy... all brazilians flying to europe cuz of the world cup.. it will be EXPENSIVE to fly there.. lol
[02:08] <Meyer> debconf should be easier to nictuku
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[02:51] <Overand> Hey, there *is* an #ubuntu-server, neat.
[02:54] <nictuku> Overand, welcome
[02:54] <Overand> I'm going to be building a server to move to a colo soon, and I'm debating betwen various options.
[02:54] <Overand> Go with Breezy "ubuntu-server" and upgrade (remotely) when dapper final comes out
[02:55] <Overand> go with dapper flight 6
[02:55] <Overand> or go with a daily
[02:56] <nictuku> wait for dapper unless you have a reason
[02:56] <Overand> heh
[02:56] <Overand> the reason is each month I delay costs me $170 or so
[02:57] <Overand> Also, general impatience.  I have a 1U server with 2 gigs of ram and an Athlon X2 4200+ just *waiting* for an OS
[02:57] <nictuku> breezy, wait, then dapper!
[02:58] <Overand> yeah...
[02:58] <Overand> I've been getting suggestions in both directions when it comes to that.
[02:58] <Overand> THat was my original plan, go for breezy server, then upgrade to dapper
[02:58] <Overand> but upgrades never *quite* seem to be 100%
[03:30] <Meyer> i should gou for dapper
[03:30] <Meyer> its quite stable by now
[03:30] <Meyer> fair less headache than a remote dist-upgrade
[03:35] <Overand> yeah
[03:35] <Overand> I mean, the advantage is that I *can* get to the box pretty easily
[03:35] <Overand> it'd be a ~2ish hour drive
[03:36] <Overand> Meyer: would you say a flight CD or a daily?
[03:36] <Overand> I'm leaning towards a flight CD
[03:36] <Meyer> a daily would be basicaly flight + updates
[03:36] <Meyer> maybe unstable installation
[03:38] <Meyer> going down for reboot.. brb
[03:41] <Overand> yeah, an unstable installation would be kinda bleh.
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=== Meyer back
[04:10] <Overand> heya Meyer
[04:10] <Overand> Hey, don't multiply, you might start making bad comedy as a group.
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[08:10] <ajmitch> morning fabbione
[08:11] <fabbione> morning
[08:12] <ajmitch> how's the niagara support now? :)
[08:12] <fabbione> ajmitch: it's all in
[08:12] <ajmitch> full installer images are up?
[08:13] <fabbione> we lack the SSL accelerator, but that will probably not make it for dapper
=== ajmitch will probably be playing with one tomorrow
[08:13] <fabbione> ajmitch: since the announcment
[08:13] <ajmitch> ok, I thought it was just netboot back then
=== ajmitch will give it a go :)
[08:18] <fabbione> oh yes
[08:19] <fabbione> i forgot to announce the CD
[08:19] <fabbione> but they should be working
[08:19] <fabbione> i just got a report of something bad and i am checking
[08:28] <ajmitch> just grabbing the daily now, will report problems when I run into them tomorrow
[08:36] <fabbione> sure
[08:36] <fabbione> but my suggestion is to use netboot
[08:36] <fabbione> it's much easier
[08:36] <ajmitch> ok
[08:56] <Jeeves_> ] 
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[09:44] <ivoks> fabbione: ping
[09:45] <ivoks> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11 Nov 13 17:35 /etc/ldap.secret
[09:45] <ivoks> this isn't nice :(
[09:45] <fabbione> ivoks: talk with pitti.. -ENOMYPROBLEM
[09:45] <ivoks> ok
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[10:50] <infinity> ivoks: What owns /etc/ldap.secret?
[10:52] <infinity> ivoks: I certainly don't have one on my system.
[10:59] <ivoks> infinity: it looks like this is leftover from by old instalation
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[09:45] <Jeeves_> busy channel, this ubuntu-server
[09:45] <spike> :)
[09:46] <spike> Jeeves_: thing is we're all working very hard :P
[09:46] <Jeeves_> spike: Sure! :)
[09:46] <Jeeves_> I *am* actually working :)
[09:47] <spike> Jeeves_: sure :)
[09:47] <Jeeves_> spike: Really! I'm kicking a FreeBSD running Sunfire x4200 :)
[09:47] <Jeeves_>  9:51PM  up  5:13, 3 users, load averages: 73.52, 68.37, 48.83
[09:48] <Jeeves_> ./http_load -proxy 10.0.0.101 80 -parallel 100 -fetches 115000 urllist
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[10:37] <tarvid> started working with mirrormed and clearpath
[10:38] <tarvid> either would make a significant contribution to debian-med
[10:38] <tarvid> although both are GPL, there is a little of the JBOSS syndrome going on
[10:40] <tarvid> ClearHealth on their "purchase" link suggest a budget of $30,000, the maintainer of MirrorMed will suggest the same
[10:40] <tarvid> Patches are all in CVS, the download versions are periodic feature release
[10:42] <tarvid> The ClearHealth download is at SourceForge is labeled GPL but they seem very possessive of the name
[10:42] <tarvid> I can envision a forced fork just to get a name.
[10:43] <tarvid> Any experience here with OSS where the developer holds things close to their chest?
[10:44] <Jeeves_> tarvid: You're using it, Linux ?
[10:46] <infinity> tarvid: Trademark holders releasing software under free license but restricting use of their mark is pretty common (Apache Foundation, Mozilla Foundation, Linux, PHP,...)
[10:47] <tarvid> It loads on dapper apache mysql php
[10:47] <tarvid> it is PHP4 dependent
[10:49] <tarvid> the ClearHealth business strategy is to extract significant support fees
[10:50] <tarvid> Apache, PHP etc don't seem to mind people and firms saying they support those products commercially
[10:51] <tarvid> Not sure ClearHealth would be as generous
[10:52] <tarvid> MirrorMed is a "friendly" fork as the maintainer suggests.
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[10:58] <infinity> tarvid: Trademark law doesn't allow them to stop you from saying you support the product.
[10:58] <infinity> tarvid: It only allows them to stop you from having a competing/similar product with the same name.
[11:00] <tarvid> I think I am just naive.
[11:01] <tarvid> I have a client that would really like to try an OSS Practice Management System
[11:01] <tarvid> These are the only two that look like they have a prayer of doing X12 (EDI) billing in the near future
[11:02] <tarvid> I guess I am nervous about having an elephant in the closet. A high maintenance client with no clear avanue of support
[11:03] <tarvid> A working demo packaged as a deb might get a lot more people going
[11:03] <tarvid> Right now the community is rather thin.
[11:04] <tarvid> For now I think I will run with the CVS and wait for the lion to roar.
[11:07] <tarvid> Thanks.
[11:16] <spike> eeer, need some help with initrd image
[11:17] <spike> I thought I was supposed to gunzip it and mount it, but it turned out to be a cpio archive
[11:17] <spike> once uncompressed with pax I was expecting a linuxrc script in root, but there's no one
[11:18] <Jeeves_> spike: Wasn't there a script in /etc ?
[11:20] <spike> Jeeves_: nope, modprobe.d and udev
[11:20] <spike> but is' indeed working, cause I'm booting my laptop with it...
[11:20] <Jeeves_> find / -name \*rc\* ?
[11:21] <spike> breezy, latest kernel stock
[11:21] <spike> Jeeves_: already done that, nothing
[11:21] <spike> did ls -R | grep rc actually
[11:22] <Jeeves_> Hmm
[11:22] <Jeeves_> Strange
[11:23] <Kolan> anyone with experience on MegaRaid controllers?
[11:24] <spike> Jeeves_: indeed, I've no idea how it can be working then...
[11:24] <infinity> spike: I assume you're looking for /init ?
[11:24] <spike> gosh...
[11:24] <spike> ehehe
[11:25] <spike> infinity: indeed, ta, I was blindly insisting to look for some rc file :)
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