[12:14] <mdke> holy shit, the desktop guide is translated to swedish already
[12:14] <mdke> that's INSANE
[12:15] <Burgwork> mdke, some people have nothing else to do
[12:16] <mdke> Burgwork, that sounds a bit harsh, I'm happy it's translated!
[12:17] <Burgwork> sorry, that should have been  ;P
[12:17] <mdke> i didn't get many replies to my branching email. I have started thinking its a good idea
[12:18] <Burgwork> the amount I know about SVN could fit into a shot class
[12:19] <theCore> maybe, I could translate the Packaging Guide in French
[12:19] <mdke> theCore, you could, good idea
[12:21] <mdke> Burgwork, well I don't know much about it either, but it depends on our policy, rather than svn. The svn part is easy (svn copy), deciding whether to do it or not is the hard part for me
[12:21] <theCore> ( I just love the small editor war we have here :) 
[12:21] <mdke> heh
[12:21] <Burgwork> yes. I was referring more to good practice
[12:22] <mdke> Burgwork, I was reading the svn manual yesterday, it doesn't say much more than "this depends on your policy"
[12:22] <LaserJock> mdke: I'm not totally sure of what the options are?
[12:22] <mdke> so no help there
[12:23] <mdke> LaserJock, ok. the options are (a) make a branch, and do everything post string freeze in there (translations, removing draft watermarks ;) or (b) carry on going in trunk continuously
[12:24] <LaserJock> oh, a) sounds much better
[12:24] <LaserJock> I thought it was tags vs branches or something technical like that
[12:25] <mdke> ok, if we go with (a), do post-freeze fixes get done in the branch, and later merged back to trunk, or done in both at the same time?
[12:25] <Burgwork> mdke, ugh
[12:25] <LaserJock> mdke: for me I would do them same time, there really shouldn't be that many changes, I wouldn't think
[12:25] <mdke> hope not
[12:26] <mdke> is now a good time for branching?
[12:26] <LaserJock> I would think so. I mean, I'll have to apply a couple more diffs from crimsun but I can do that to both no problem
[12:27] <mdke> ok, let's do it
[12:28] <mdke> Burgwork, btw, I just saw the weird colour problem in gxine (breezy). It went away when I closed it, killed a stray totem process that I couldn't see, then reopened it
[12:28] <LaserJock> on the other hand it might be wise to wait until Beta Release/UI Freeze
[12:28] <LaserJock> April 20th
[12:28] <mdke> hmm
[12:29] <LaserJock> I guess the only real reason to do it now would be that some people might be getting eager to start on Dapper+1 docs
[12:29] <mdke> yeah
[12:29] <mdke> I'm quite keen to start playing around with translations too, but there is loads of time for that
[12:30] <LaserJock> If people want to do that (I've been thinking about it) then we can branch now. It just means that we need to be a little more careful about keeping track of changes
[12:30] <Burgwork> mdke, I had noticed that as well. Maybe gxine and totem don't like running together?
[12:30] <mdke> Burgwork, totem just plain refuses to play when another instance is open. Dunno why
[12:30] <Burgwork> oh fun
[12:31] <Burgwork> isn't multimedia a nice swamp?
[12:31] <LaserJock> uggh, I just use Windows :(
[12:31] <mdke> LaserJock, yeah, although that might not be bad practice. After all, if poss changes need to be announced to -translators too
[12:32] <LaserJock> yeah, I vote we branch now
[12:33] <mdke> ok, I'll ping daniel about it tomorrow and if he approves, do it
[12:37] <frank23> theCore: I'll try to work on French translations of the docs too. Do you know if there is a mailing list or forum for the French translators?
[12:38] <theCore> frank23: I'm a newbie translator, I still have to figure out how to work
[12:39] <frank23> theCore: J'ai pas rencontr beaucoup de Qubecois ici. ;) Pas que j'en suis un.
[12:40] <theCore> frank23: et bien, donc t'es surement un francais de France?
[12:41] <frank23> theCore: No-Brunswickois. 
[12:41] <theCore> frank23: cool, en passant, parler en francais est mal vu ;)
[12:41] <frank23> theCore: yeah I know. I wasn gonna continue
[12:44] <frank23> theCore: you're in Toronto
[12:44] <frank23> ?
[12:44] <theCore> frank23: i'm from a small town near Montreal
[12:45] <frank23> theCore: ok. I've been living in Montreal for close to 3 years now.
[12:47] <theCore> frank23: well, then you must where St-Anne-de-Bellevue is
[06:46] <Madpilot> Odd bug I've just been tracking down: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/39085
[06:59] <highvoltage> perhaps it's a feature?
[07:00] <crimsun> I think it's a feature, actually.
[07:00] <Madpilot> if there's no way to turn it off, it's a bug, not a feature :(
[07:01] <Madpilot> I don't want it opening ~/Documents just because that directory happens to exist
[07:02] <highvoltage> true.
[07:08] <crimsun> interesting, there's the 'show volumes' option in gconf-editor.
[07:08] <Madpilot> uncluttered your desktop finally?
[07:09] <crimsun> yeah, big time
[07:23] <Madpilot> anyone got a clue as to which package I should assign that bug to?
[07:26] <crimsun> nautilus</wild stab>
[07:27] <crimsun> you should probably ask seb in #ubuntu-desktop in a few hours
[07:27] <Madpilot> will do - I thought the file dialogues where handled by 'gnome-open', but I can't find that package listed in malone...
[08:45] <mdke_> Madpilot, dpkg -S is your friend
[08:45] <mdke_> libgnome2-0: /usr/bin/gnome-open
[08:45] <Madpilot> ah! thanks
[09:35] <Unfrgiven> mdke: ping
[10:09] <mdke> Unfrgiven, pong
[10:09] <Unfrgiven> mdke: was just reading your mail about branching
[10:09] <Unfrgiven> once branched, are we able to move changes from one branch to another?
[10:09] <Unfrgiven> to prevent having to make the same change twice
[10:12] <mdke> Unfrgiven, yes, changes made as an exception to the freeze should be made in the branch and in trunk, at the same time, how we wish to do that depends. svn copy is a good option
[01:02] <mdke> trappist, ooh, some rocking reviews from adam on the server guide. Shall we get them in as freeze exceptions?
[01:14] <mdke> bhuvan, ^^
[01:14] <bhuvan> mdke, yes
[01:17] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, following your thread about improving quality, I think my idea https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2006-April/000442.html can help on improving doc quality. Don't how far you are from automatic generation of localized help in the website, but if you are close enough, it would allow to quick review translated documentation even for the translators that do not use Dapper, therefore not able to quickly see the final do
[01:17] <WaterSevenUb> cuments.
[01:18] <WaterSevenUb> Most of them, also do not generate the final documents locally. 
[01:19] <WaterSevenUb> Experience tells that it is the best way to see if the translations are good or not, looking at the final result.
[01:19] <mdke> yeah, I had always intended to do this, don't worry
[01:19] <mdke> I'll answer your mail
[01:22] <WaterSevenUb> ok, thank you. I share your worries about quality issues, breezy translated docs had some serious problems that are not desirable at all in Dapper. The problems are also present in application translations. A short-term solution might be weekly langpacks and ubuntu-docs to enforce reviews.
[01:22] <mdke> it's mainly applications my post is directed at, certainly
[01:30] <bhuvan> mdke, "dapper+1" do you mean next major release ? or patch 1 for dapper ? (pardon me if it sounds silly)!
[01:32] <mdke> bhuvan, next major release
[01:33] <bhuvan> so, as i said why cant we make trunk read-only till we start our work for next-release ?
[01:33] <bhuvan> next-release = dapper+1
[01:34] <mdke> because work might want to start immediately for that
[01:35] <mdke> or rather, people might want to start work immediately for that
[01:35] <bhuvan> ok
[04:01] <mgalvin> jjesse: did you get that email with my reply to eric... i just cc'd you on it rather then re-explaining everything
[04:02] <jjesse> yeah i did thanks
[04:02] <mgalvin> sure np
[04:41] <trappist> mdke: who's adam and where's the review?
[04:42] <mdke> trappist, he's Adam Conrad and it's on the list, in response to your email
[04:42] <trappist> oh, I just looked on the list and didn't see it.  I'll look again.
[04:43] <mdke> ("infinity" on irc, core dev, buildd admin and generally a bit of a god)
[04:44] <trappist> oh I know him
[04:44] <trappist> in response to which email?
[04:45] <mdke> Quick Review
[04:47] <trappist> oh on THAT list.
[04:49] <trappist> ok read it.  and having read it, he makes some hella good points that I do think warrant an exception to the string freeze.
[04:54] <mdke> me too
[04:54] <mdke> i'm going to set some time aside tonight to implement some, if you can help, that would be lovely
[04:56] <trappist> why don't you tell me what you had in mind to implement - I'm booked up for tonight, but I should be able to find some time today to get some done.
[04:58] <mdke> sure thing
[04:58] <mdke> my tonight is your today anyway
[04:58] <trappist> ah
[04:59] <mdke> I'll do LAMP (as suggested by Jerome), and from Adam's: apache, postfix, ssl. I'm not very sure about firewall, samba and ifup/down, can you do any of those?
[04:59] <jsgotangco> trappist: if you can't get a string exception, make an errata online
[05:01] <jjesse> what was that?
[05:02] <trappist> I just saw his other reply - there's more to be done than I realized
[05:03] <mdke> trappist, what are you thinking?
[05:06] <trappist> nothing worth talking about yet :) between the two of us maybe we can get it knocked out to(day|night)
[05:07] <mdke> hope so
[05:07] <jjesse> is this the serverguide you two are talking about?
[05:08] <trappist> yeah
[05:09] <mdke> trappist, can you do any of those 3 sections?
[05:09] <trappist> I can do any of em - just probably not all of them
[05:10] <mdke> the samba one looks very trivial
[05:11] <mdke> the biggest thing is ifup/down
[05:11] <trappist> I agree
[05:11] <trappist> other than the apache stuff
[05:11] <trappist> if by biggest you mean most labor-intensive
[05:12] <mdke> yeah, but the apache stuff should be straightforward, I hope
[05:16] <jjesse> mdke: question on doc.ubuntu.com shouldn't the server guide have its own section like the packaging guide as it is agnostic to whether it is from a kubuntu install or ubuntu install?
[05:16] <jjesse> sort of like the packaging guide?
[05:19] <mdke> jjesse, http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/
[06:19] <mdke> trappist, ok, I'll start on apache later and see if I can do the postfix and ssl stuff. See what you can do with the rest, and we'll exchange notes
[06:22] <trappist> ok
[06:46] <jjesse> mdke: Ping
[06:49] <mdke> jjesse, pong
[06:56] <mdke> jjesse, pong harder
[07:00] <jjesse> sorry was on a work call
[07:00] <jjesse> two questions, can we look at the email first?
[07:02] <mdke> sure
[07:02] <jjesse> mdke: if you look at the Names of Products and trademakrs section, read it again, Names of products and trademarks and trade protection laws
[07:03] <mdke> where are we looking?
[07:03] <jjesse> shouldn't it read something about  Names of prodcuts and trademarks and trade proection laws are?
[07:03] <jjesse> disclaimer section in about-ubuntu and about-kubuntu
[07:03] <mdke> let's be specific at what we're looking at, hang on
[07:04] <mdke> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/common/C/disclaimer.xml
[07:04] <mdke> ok, you're right
[07:05] <mdke> odd
[07:05] <jjesse> so the translators at least for about-kubuntu haven't done that part yet
[07:06] <mdke> how are we going to rewrite this?
[07:06] <mdke> it's dreadfully drafted
[07:07] <mdke> how about rewriting that whole paragraph as one sentence:
[07:07] <mdke>     <para>Some of the software and hardware descriptions cited in this publication may be registered trademarks and may thus fall under copyright restrictions and trade protection laws.</para>
[07:08] <mdke> or maybe:
[07:08] <mdke>     <para>Some of the software and hardware descriptions cited in this publication may be registered trademarks and may thus fall under copyright restrictions and trade protection laws. In no way do the authors make claim to any such names.</para>
[07:09] <jjesse> i like the second better
[07:09] <mdke> ok. second question?
[07:10] <jjesse> bug 39111 (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-docs/+bug/39111)
[07:10] <jjesse> can i change things without totally messing up translations
[07:10] <jjesse> just a very minor typo
[07:11] <mdke> yes
[07:11] <jjesse> ok so i can change the paragraph in the disclaimer and then change the typo
[07:11] <jjesse> i just didn't want to sscrew up translations
[07:12] <mdke> I've done the disclaimer
[07:12] <mdke> shall I do the typo too? I'll need to upload new translation templates anyway later on, so no problem
[07:13] <jjesse> thats fine, i'll mark the bug as fix released then
[07:13] <mdke> okay
[07:13] <mdke> although it won't be fixed, strictly speaking, until tomorrow
[07:13] <jjesse> understand
[07:14] <mdke> good, thanks for pointing that out
[07:14] <jjesse> welcome
[07:14] <jjesse> it's awesome to see kubuntu-docs being translated already :)
[07:16] <LaserJock> mdke: translation has started on the packaging guide in Chinese and French
[07:17] <LaserJock> mdke: how easy is it for you to upload a new .pot
[07:41] <jjesse> also the kubuntu desktop guide in chinese
[07:51] <Burgwork> all because of the CoC
[07:51] <Burgwork> http://blog.zugschlus.de/archives/373-Debian-loses-DPL-election,-Cabal-wins-by-tiny-margin.html
[07:54] <Burgwork> ya right!
[07:56] <mdke> LaserJock, I'm making quite a lot of new pots so we will do the packaging guide too and ask daniel for an upload tomorrow
[07:58] <trappist> Burgwork: I'm a big fan of the CoC.  I don't think it's necessary to be disrespectful or rude to say what needs saying, even if it's profoundly negative.
[07:58] <Burgwork> indeed
[07:58] <Burgwork> civil discourse means stuff gets done
[07:59] <trappist> I quit debian mostly because so many of that crowd don't see it that way.
[08:00] <Burgwork> well, the problem is that the most vocal start being rude and the rest leave
[08:00] <mdke> trappist, uploaded some changes to server guide, i need to do more on apache and postfix still
[08:00] <trappist> I have thick enough skin, but I have better things to do than filter through insulting tripe to get to the meat of a conversation
[08:00] <trappist> mdke: ossum
[08:02] <mdke> I did a find/replace on "refer the" and replaced it with "refer to the", there were like 50 instances
[08:03] <trappist> mdke: good move.  I always try to fix those where I see em.  there were indeed a lot.
[08:18] <jjesse> another question as it relates to the kubuntu desktop guide, is there a reason the example of using sudo (kdesu) is to launch konqueror?
[08:20] <trappist> seems like a good example to me.  maybe I would have chosen kate.
[08:21] <jjesse> trappist: couldn't you argue that newbies would then delete the wrong files by mistake?
[08:23] <trappist> jjesse: I don't like those arguments.  no matter what we're doing, there will be newbies doing stuff as root and making mistakes.  if the example were "kdesu kate /etc/X11/xorg.conf" we'd just have a slightly different problem.
[08:24] <jjesse> trappist: agreed, just presenting an arugement on #kubuntu-devel
[08:25] <trappist> if it's something requiring kdesu, it's something a newbie can screw up.  it's probably root-only for a good reason.
[09:08] <trappist> hey, no wonder I'm not a member of ubuntu-server.  it's not listed on lists.ubuntu.com
[09:21] <LaserJock> ohhhh, I do love cheeky commit messages
[09:21] <jjesse> oooo hot hungarian action :)
[09:22] <LaserJock> jjesse: hmm, did you see this  OSNews story about "Kubuntu in Trouble?"
[09:23] <jjesse> LaserJock: its a misleading title
[09:24] <LaserJock> jjesse: yeah, I'm pretty dissapointed about how OSNews covered that
[09:24] <jjesse> what happened is the kubuntu.de group is having issues with somethings (missing username/password) on the kubuntu.org server and has threatened to close things down if they don't get the username/password
[09:24] <jjesse> from what i read on kubuntu-users and kubuntu-devel Riddell seems a little pissed at them, but i cna't tell tone of voice in email
[09:24] <LaserJock> jjesse: it turned into  this "Kubuntu is dead" thing
[09:25] <jjesse> LaserJock: i know i read the thread, and the threads on kubuntu-users kubuntu-devel
[09:25] <mdke> it doesn't seem just to be a username/password issue
[09:25] <mdke> the account for amu has been setup again and they are continuing the protest
[09:26] <mdke> seems like an argument over money to me
[09:26] <jjesse> well it started out as a protest over a username password
[09:26] <mdke> someone is upset that they're not getting paid, or are not being reimbursed for expenses that they have undertaken
[09:26] <jjesse> i would agree that it has moved on to a money thing
[09:28] <mdke> I can't believe they haven't just asked the CC to assist them, it really annoys me
[09:28] <jjesse> most of the people that i've talked to are annoyed by the way the did things
[09:29] <mdke> terrible.
[09:40] <mdke> hey trappist 
[09:42] <mdke> actually unping, I think I understand
[09:43] <mdke> trappist, doesn't hurt to ask
[09:44] <mdke> trappist, the postfix ssl section describes producing 4 files (cakey.pem, cacert.pem, smtpd.key, smtpd.csr). Do I put cakey.pem and smtpd.key in /etc/ssl/private and the other two in /etc/ssl/certs?
[09:46] <mdke> i will try and test the instructions
[09:47] <trappist> actually I don't know there.  I mentioned in my email that I'd never done it like that.
[09:49] <mdke> I'll see what I can do to test
[10:03] <mdke> trappist, are you gonna have any luck with ifup/down? I don't wanna take it on because I know zilch about it.
[10:04] <trappist> I'll take it, but today's a busy-ish day at work, so I won't get to any docs until later... if I'm lucky
[10:04] <mdke> trappist, ah, ok. I'll hold off for a while on making the new translation templates then
[10:09] <Burgwork> mdke, what is the issue with ifup/down?
[10:09] <mdke> Burgwork, it's not used in the "configure network" section of the server guide
[10:09] <Burgwork> ah, it should be
[10:10] <trappist> the idea is it should be geard toward /etc/network/interfaces rather than route/ifconfig/resolv.conf etc.
[10:10] <mdke> yep
[10:11] <trappist> *geared
[10:41] <mdke> trappist, any objections if I do the branch this evening? If you don't have much bandwidth, just do any changes you have time for in trunk, and I'll merge them tomorrow
[10:42] <trappist> I've got plenty of bandwith.  I don't mind a branch at all.
[10:42] <mdke> yippe
[10:42] <mdke> actually, it shouldn't take any bandwidth should it? svn is clever
[10:42] <mdke> was forgetting that
[10:43] <robotgeek> cheap copies
[10:45] <mdke> heya robotgeek 
[10:45] <robotgeek> hey mdke trappist 
[10:45] <LaserJock> mdke: what is "this evening" for you?
[10:45] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
[10:45] <mdke> LaserJock, well, now
[10:45] <trappist> robotgeek
[10:45] <LaserJock> mdke: k
[10:46] <mdke> LaserJock, is that alright?
[10:46] <jjesse> mdke: did you see my note to exclude adept guide
[10:46] <mdke> jjesse, I don't think so. Exclude it from what?
[10:46] <LaserJock> mdke: not really, I'm still waiting on one more patch but that will be a few hours anyway, and I have no problem with making the changes in both branch and trunk
[10:46] <jjesse> it doesn't need to move to branch
[10:46] <jjesse> as it is a work in progress
[10:47] <jjesse> if possible
[10:47] <mdke> jjesse, that's ok. I'm just going to move everything over. Then things which don't belong there can either be (a) deleted, or (b) left there
[10:48] <mdke> if it is a complete no-go for dapper, we can delete it, it does no harm to reduce the size of the source packages
[10:48] <jjesse> well things like quicktour and adeptguide shouldn't be included
[10:48] <mdke> I'll copy them over, then we can delete anything that isn't going in to dapper
[10:48] <mdke> k?
[10:48] <LaserJock> mdke: yeah, that source package is quite large
[10:49] <mdke> LaserJock, it's all images I think. I'm gonna cut it down now
[10:50] <mdke> man, the default editor on our server is mc! how do I change that?
[10:51] <LaserJock> not sure but I got stuck using it the other day :(
[10:51] <LaserJock> you should be able to "export EDITOR=" in your .bashrc but I think /etc/alternatives/ is the place to change it system-wide
[10:51] <mdke> I wish there was a gedit for the command line
[10:51] <LaserJock> heh
[10:52] <mdke> ok, so in this branch, I'll delete all the stuff jjesse doesn't want in kubuntu
[10:52] <mdke> are we agreed that xubuntu and edubuntu carry on work in trunk, so I delete that too for the time being?
[10:53] <LaserJock> is any of the xubuntu and edubuntu stuff in trunk going to be shipped with dapper?
[10:54] <mdke> yes
[10:54] <mdke> i thought they might like to come into the branch later though
[10:54] <mdke> because they're not affected by the freeze
[10:54] <LaserJock> they aren't? how nice :-)
[10:55] <mdke> (they won't get translated)
[10:55] <LaserJock> yeah, then that seems resonable
[10:55] <mdke> ok
[10:55] <jjesse> mdke: thanks for taking care of it
[10:56] <mdke> jjesse, any time
[10:56] <mdke> jjesse, quickguide can go too, right?
[10:56] <jjesse> correct
[10:56] <mdke> jjesse, switching?
[10:56] <mdke> kinstallguide?
[10:56] <mdke> installguide? (?)
[10:57] <jjesse> make it easier, only things that should go are what was included in the package :)
[10:57] <mdke> :)
[10:59] <mdke> jjesse, I've done this: http://kubuntu-docs.pastebin.com/654330
[10:59] <mdke> just check it's ok
[10:59] <mdke> I'm nervy
[11:00] <jjesse> looks good
[11:00] <jjesse> gotta run :)
[11:00] <mdke> bye
[11:09] <mdke> damn, svn obviously isn't as clever as I hoped
[11:34] <Burgwork> mdke, "you have red on you?"
[11:35] <mdke> Burgwork, mm?
[11:35] <Burgwork> mdke, you missed a spot...
[11:35] <mdke> heh
[11:47] <mdke> mgalvin, hi.
[11:49] <mdke> mgalvin, i've deleted all of the images from the new branch which were under ubuntu/images/C (they are still in trunk). Did you need any of those for the release notes?
[11:49] <mgalvin> mdke: ok, no, i will need to take new screenshots anyway so no worries
[11:50] <mdke> mgalvin, great
[11:50] <mdke> it's reduced the source package size from over 15MB to 700K, so that's nice
[11:51] <mdke> now we just need someone to do the same for kubuntu *nudges robotgeek*
[11:52] <mgalvin> gesh, well thats good
[11:52] <Burgwork> I need a quick opinion on screenshots
[11:52] <Burgwork> should I shot dapper for /Website/Desktop and have it future proofed?
[11:53] <mdke> what is "future proofed"?
[11:54] <mgalvin> i would not take the screenshots yet... the artwork will certainly change again
[11:54] <Burgwork> ya
[11:54] <Burgwork> I do not have a take them again up dapper release
[11:54] <Burgwork> as I would like to be able to get that bleeding wiki page onto the website
[11:55] <Burgwork> so I can move on to other website work
[11:55] <robotgeek> mdke: can i do it later tonight?
[11:55] <mdke> robotgeek, I don't know. If you can, that would certainly rock
[11:56] <mdke> robotgeek, svn rm * :)
[11:56] <mdke> I did: svn rm *; svn revert thisone.png
[11:56] <robotgeek> mdke: oh, all of them are unused?
[11:56] <mdke> there was _one_ in the ubuntu directory that gets installed
[11:57] <robotgeek> lol
[11:57] <trappist> mdke: work day is over and we're celebrating this evening (fiancee got a new job) so I won't be able to hit docs until tomorrow.  possibly late tonight, but I can't count on it.
[11:58] <trappist> I'm all out of string-freeze excuses with her for a while :)
[11:58] <mdke> trappist, np, congratulations to her.
[11:58] <trappist> thanks
[11:58] <mdke> fiancees rock
[11:59] <robotgeek> trappist: have fun!
[11:59] <trappist> thanks robotgeek 
[12:01] <mdke> robotgeek, actually, it's pretty likely they are all unused: the only Ubuntu one was for the header in the html, and kubuntu gets its header from kde