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| kbrooks | !schedule EST | 12:36 |
|---|---|---|
| kbrooks | !schedule EST | 12:36 |
| kbrooks | Seveas: hpw do i get the schedule? | 12:36 |
| Seveas | see bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html | 12:37 |
| kbrooks | !schedule Toronto | 12:41 |
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| Meyer | @schedule brazil/east | 12:45 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Brazil/East: 11 Apr 17:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 09:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 11:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 11:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 18:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 09:00: Edubuntu | 12:45 |
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| kbrooks | @schedule Toronto | 02:16 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/Toronto: 11 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 10:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 02:16 |
| kbrooks | there | 02:16 |
| Lathiat | @schedule Australia/Perth | 02:56 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Australia/Perth: 12 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 22:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 05:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 02:56 |
| Lathiat | ooh, thats nifty | 02:56 |
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| Seveas | @schedule gmt-5 | 07:55 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/GMT-5: 12 Apr 01:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 17:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 19:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 19:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 02:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 17:00: Edubuntu | 07:55 |
| Seveas | works perfectly | 07:55 |
| Meyer | :P | 07:58 |
| Lathiat | yeh thats fantastic | 08:01 |
| Lathiat | props to whoevers fault that is | 08:01 |
| Lathiat | @schedule gmt+8 | 08:01 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/GMT+8: 11 Apr 12:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 06:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 06:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 13:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu | 08:01 |
| Seveas | hmm, still | 08:02 |
| Seveas | + and - seems messed up | 08:02 |
| robitaille | @schedule us/pacific | 08:03 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for US/Pacific: 11 Apr 13:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 07:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 08:03 |
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| Seveas | @schedule amsterdam | 01:20 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 01:20 |
| neuralis | @schedule New_York | 01:21 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/New_York: 11 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 10:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 01:21 |
| fabbione | @schedule North_Pole | 01:26 |
| fabbione | tsk | 01:27 |
| fabbione | @schedule artic | 01:27 |
| fabbione | @schedule arctic | 01:27 |
| fabbione | it's there! | 01:28 |
| Seveas | @schedule Arctic/Longyearbyen | 01:28 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Arctic/Longyearbyen: 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 01:28 |
| sivang | fabbione: you in the arctic now? | 01:28 |
| sivang | @schedule Israel | 01:28 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Israel: 11 Apr 23:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 17:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 17:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 00:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 01:28 |
| fabbione | sivang: i won't tell you | 01:28 |
| sivang | fabbione: heh :) | 01:28 |
| neuralis | @schedule South_Pole | 01:29 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Antarctica/South_Pole: 12 Apr 08:00: Technical Board | 13 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu | 13 Apr 02:00: Xubuntu | 14 Apr 02:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 09:00: Community Council | 20 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu | 01:29 |
| neuralis | fabbione: there, just a bit off ;) | 01:29 |
| fabbione | yeah only 180 degrees | 01:29 |
| sivang | neuralis: on one of the polls as well? :) | 01:29 |
| ajmitch | looks like the south pole is on NZ time :) | 01:38 |
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| mdz | good morning | 09:01 |
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| ogra | pretty empty agenda again | 09:06 |
| Keybuk | it's not for another hour :) | 09:07 |
| ogra | so you expect the agenda to grow ? :) | 09:08 |
| Keybuk | it usually does a bit | 09:08 |
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| mdz | dholbach: did you get in touch with Cropalato? | 09:17 |
| dholbach | mdz: cropalato was one of the motu applicants? | 09:22 |
| dholbach | mdz: if so, i got in touch with everybody who signed up for ubuntu-{core-,}dev | 09:23 |
| dholbach | and had no responses apart from those i told you about :/ | 09:24 |
| mdz | dholbach: yes | 09:36 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
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| Keybuk | right, brb for coffee | 09:58 |
| mdz | brh for meeting | 09:59 |
| mdz | agenda is very lightweight, especially if lifeless doesn't turn up | 10:00 |
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| freeflying | mdz: hi | 10:00 |
| === sivang checks the agenda | ||
| mdz | freeflying: hi | 10:01 |
| mdz | mjg59 said that he would not be able to make it | 10:01 |
| mdz | sabdfl doesn't seem to be around either, so just me and Keybuk tonight | 10:01 |
| Keybuk | "the terrible twosome" | 10:02 |
| === sivang lols | ||
| freeflying | mdz: I'm in ture of apply for dev | 10:02 |
| mdz | freeflying: pardon? | 10:02 |
| freeflying | mdz: zpply for ubuntu-developer membership | 10:02 |
| freeflying | s/zpply/apply | 10:03 |
| mdz | freeflying: what is your launchpad username? I don't see you on the list | 10:03 |
| freeflying | mdz: zhengpeng-hou | 10:03 |
| mdz | oh, you applied a long time ago apparently | 10:03 |
| mdz | is this the first meeting you've been able to attend since January? | 10:04 |
| Keybuk | mdz: uh, did someone move "Proposed Members" | 10:04 |
| === Keybuk doesn't see it | ||
| mdz | Keybuk: there aren't any for core | 10:04 |
| Keybuk | mdz: ah! | 10:04 |
| mdz | it's there on ubuntu-dev | 10:04 |
| freeflying | mdz: this is the second | 10:04 |
| mdz | hmm, I think you applied during the meeting where I wasn't here | 10:05 |
| mdz | what was the outcome? | 10:05 |
| Keybuk | mdz: we asked him to work more closely with the other scim maintainers and the other MOTU | 10:05 |
| Keybuk | as well as increase his usage of Malone | 10:05 |
| freeflying | mdz: was rejected one month ago , due to the low karma value | 10:05 |
| Keybuk | s/rejected/deferred/ | 10:06 |
| Keybuk | but yes | 10:06 |
| mdz | freeflying: is there still difficulty between you and minghua? | 10:06 |
| freeflying | mdz: i don't think we have | 10:06 |
| mdz | dholbach: any feedback from MOTU about freeflying's involvement since? | 10:07 |
| mvo | mdz: I worked with him on various CJK related issues (input methods, fonts) and he is very active | 10:07 |
| dholbach | mdz: i can't say I worked much with freeflying - I think he was more involved with mvo and the KDE guys | 10:07 |
| mdz | mvo: have you sponsored packages or patches for him? | 10:07 |
| mvo | I sponsored some of his patches | 10:07 |
| mdz | freeflying: who have you been working with primarily? | 10:08 |
| freeflying | mdz: Riddell | 10:08 |
| mdz | Riddell: around? | 10:08 |
| Riddell | hi | 10:09 |
| mdz | Riddell: have you sponsored packages for freeflying? any feedback? | 10:09 |
| Riddell | freeflying's packages have been getting steddily better and for scim-bridge which I think was the last I reviewed I just had to correct the English on the description | 10:09 |
| mdz | freeflying: I must say that cooperation is very important in our teams; I'm concerned about the fact that there was such a heated conflict over scim in the past | 10:10 |
| mvo | I sponsored the initial scim-bridge upload and was happy with the quality | 10:10 |
| mdz | freeflying: if you were in the same position again, what might you do differently? | 10:11 |
| freeflying | mdz: we had disagreement before on scim | 10:12 |
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| freeflying | mdz: but that don't mean I will not cooperate | 10:12 |
| sabdfl | ello there | 10:12 |
| ogra | hey sabdfl | 10:12 |
| sabdfl | sorry to be late | 10:12 |
| sabdfl | where are we? | 10:12 |
| === mvo waves to sabdfl | ||
| sabdfl | hey michael | 10:12 |
| ogra | sabdfl, first ubuntu-dev wannabe | 10:13 |
| ogra | (freeflying) | 10:13 |
| mdz | sabdfl: see paste in /msg | 10:13 |
| mdz | freeflying: if you had such a disagreement today, what might you do differently? | 10:13 |
| freeflying | mdz: now we haven't any disagreeement | 10:14 |
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| freeflying | mdz: you know scim is in main now , and is the default for cjk users | 10:14 |
| sabdfl | freeflying: i saw some of the correspondence that flew around, and it struck me that you were very confrontational in your approach | 10:14 |
| sabdfl | the other correspondent was bein cautious and reasonable | 10:15 |
| sabdfl | i like your energy, and your willingness to learn and contribute | 10:15 |
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| mdz | freeflying: perhaps my question was unclear. if you had a different disagreement, perhaps with someone else, would you handle the situation in the same way? or would you do something differently? | 10:15 |
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| sabdfl | but i'm a bit concerned about your approach to dealing with folks who are more cautious or who see things differently | 10:15 |
| freeflying | mdz: I'd talk with him | 10:15 |
| sabdfl | glad to hear Riddell and others are impressed with the improving quality of your work | 10:16 |
| freeflying | sabdfl: thx | 10:16 |
| mdz | Keybuk: his earlier deferral was in part based on your concerns; do you have any questions? | 10:17 |
| Keybuk | I'm glad he's taken up my advice to work more with Launchpad and Malone, so I'm happy with his improvement there | 10:18 |
| Keybuk | But I still don't think he's shown improvement in how he deals with others, especially minghua | 10:18 |
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| Keybuk | freeflying: have you spoken to minghua since the last meeting? worked out your differences? | 10:18 |
| freeflying | Keybuk: we have talked something about improve the support for scim | 10:19 |
| mdz | freeflying: according to Launchpad, you've signed the code of conduct, however, I do not feel that your earlier exchange regarding scim honored the CoC | 10:19 |
| mdz | freeflying: however, you have made substantial code contributions which we appreciate, and I would like to recognize your continued involvement | 10:20 |
| sabdfl | freeflying: we don't want to beat up on you for a past approach which you've now gotten over | 10:20 |
| sabdfl | i recognise that you're on a steep learning curve, and doing very well | 10:20 |
| sabdfl | but this interpersonal approach is very, very important in ubuntu | 10:20 |
| freeflying | sabdfl: I see , I just appreciate this , so Iinvolved in ubuntu community | 10:21 |
| sabdfl | ok | 10:22 |
| Riddell | I didn't see much of the scim disagreement, but freeflying has always been very couteous and good to work with on #kubuntu-devel | 10:22 |
| Keybuk | I think for me, he's shown enough of an improvement in his developer skills to join the ubuntu-dev team; and that by joining the team he'll improve his communication | 10:22 |
| Keybuk | he's certainly shown great willingless to improve | 10:22 |
| sabdfl | freeflying: do we have your commitment to think carefully before you flame someone with whom you disagree? | 10:22 |
| mvo | I have a good working relationship with him too | 10:22 |
| === mvo didn't knew about the scim disagrement | ||
| Riddell | seems he and others in the Chinese ubuntu community were quite upset about the fridge story that was posted today, but freeflying was very good at explaining his concerns | 10:23 |
| sabdfl | mvo: it was more a disagreement on the maturity of the code, and as it happens, freeflying's approach of "lets just get it in" won the day | 10:23 |
| sabdfl | fridge story? | 10:24 |
| freeflying | sabdfl: I will not flame with any disagreement | 10:24 |
| sabdfl | freeflying: ok, then +1 from me, and a big thank you for your contributions so far! | 10:24 |
| freeflying | sabdfl: I think anything can be solved by commnuication | 10:24 |
| freeflying | sabdfl: thanks | 10:24 |
| Riddell | sabdfl: looks like it has been removed now | 10:25 |
| sabdfl | hmm... sounds like i should know a bit about htat | 10:25 |
| mdz | +1, but with a strong urging to remember the CoC and resolve disagreements amicably, avoiding personal conflict | 10:25 |
| sabdfl | anyhow, keybuk? mdz? | 10:25 |
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| Keybuk | +1 from me | 10:26 |
| freeflying | mdz: thanks , and I will | 10:26 |
| mdz | freeflying: if you find yourself in a difficult position, feel free to peaceably escalate the issue to the tech board or community council; we're here to help | 10:26 |
| freeflying | Keybuk: thanks | 10:26 |
| freeflying | mdz: ya | 10:26 |
| mdz | freeflying: welcome to the team | 10:26 |
| mvo | congrats freeflying! | 10:27 |
| ogra | congrats freeflying | 10:27 |
| freeflying | thansk mvo Riddell sabdfl mdz Keybuk | 10:27 |
| dholbach | congratulations freeflying | 10:27 |
| freeflying | ogra: thanks | 10:27 |
| freeflying | dholbach: thx | 10:27 |
| mdz | is there anyone else here applying for ubuntu-dev? | 10:27 |
| mdz | I pinged lifeless earlier, but he doesn't seem to be around | 10:27 |
| sabdfl | freeflying: what's your launchpad nick? | 10:28 |
| mdz | sabdfl: https://launchpad.net/people/zhengpeng-hou | 10:28 |
| LaserJock | congrats freeflying | 10:28 |
| mdz | (I updated LP already) | 10:28 |
| cbx33 | congratulations freeflying | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | ah | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | thanks mdz :-) | 10:28 |
| mdz | not hearing from any other ubuntu-dev applicants, sladen has the first discussion item | 10:28 |
| freeflying | cbx33: thx | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | lifeless is hopefully fast asleep right now | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | or writing tests | 10:28 |
| mdz | sladen: after seeing the agenda item, I commented on the bug with my feelings on the matter | 10:28 |
| Keybuk | sabdfl: I thought he did that in his sleep | 10:29 |
| mdz | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/36838/+index | 10:29 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 36838 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-minimal "ubuntu-minimal/Server does not depend on acpi-support" [Normal,Rejected] | 10:29 |
| Keybuk | first up | 10:29 |
| Keybuk | obvious problem | 10:29 |
| Keybuk | even if we wanted to, we can't change ubuntu-minimal right now | 10:29 |
| Keybuk | unless kamion has overcome that bug | 10:29 |
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| mdz | we shouldn't change it at this point in the release cycle anyway, but we can answer the question of what it is meant to be | 10:30 |
| Keybuk | why doesn't ubuntu-minimal provide acpi-support? | 10:30 |
| Keybuk | seems logical to me for that to be there | 10:30 |
| mdz | we do say that minimal is meant to provide hardware support, but I see power management as a special case | 10:31 |
| mdz | especially in the context of servers | 10:31 |
| Keybuk | true, most servers don't tend to need hibernation | 10:31 |
| mdz | and they usually don't want powernowd or the like etiher | 10:32 |
| sabdfl | do they not cycle down into "slow and power saving" mode? | 10:32 |
| mdz | and they definitely don't want to automatically power down | 10:32 |
| Keybuk | mdz: unless the power goes out? | 10:32 |
| sabdfl | i thought heat generation was the #1 issue in data centers right now? | 10:32 |
| sabdfl | do Xeon's support speed steppings? | 10:32 |
| mdz | sabdfl: I think the #1 issue continues to be $ per unit of work done | 10:32 |
| elmo | mdz: not really | 10:33 |
| sabdfl | mdz: where some not insignificant chunk of $ goes to air conditioning | 10:33 |
| elmo | sabdfl is right | 10:33 |
| sabdfl | QUOTES PAGE | 10:33 |
| elmo | most vendors are incorporating speedstep stuff into their server line | 10:33 |
| elmo | precisely because of heat/power issues | 10:33 |
| sivang | sabdfl: IBM's pServers do that :) | 10:33 |
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| sivang | (move into low workload state with less power consumption and low heat) | 10:34 |
| mdz | elmo: my point is that that is only one part of the larger equation | 10:34 |
| mdz | and fwiw, acpi-support has nothing to do with frequency scaling afaik | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | that's powernowd etc. | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | do we install the frequency scaling stuff in desktops by default? | 10:35 |
| mdz | it's mostly infrastructure for suspend and hibernate | 10:35 |
| mdz | sabdfl: yes, since warty or so | 10:35 |
| sabdfl | and is it a low-level, daemon like thing that could also go on ubuntu server? | 10:35 |
| mdz | yes | 10:35 |
| sabdfl | can it cause problems with hardware that doesn't implement specs correctly? | 10:35 |
| mdz | I believe all of its dependencies are already in -minimal | 10:35 |
| mdz | unknown | 10:35 |
| mdz | note that it's near impossible to exclude packages from it | 10:36 |
| mdz | if the package does trigger a problem, the user is in trouble | 10:36 |
| mdz | but I don't know of any such issues with cpufreq | 10:36 |
| sabdfl | too late for us to get meaningful feedback pre-dapper | 10:36 |
| mdz | agreed | 10:36 |
| sladen | mdz: ta. yup, I closed it after that | 10:36 |
| mdz | on the larger question of which bits of power management infrastructure might be appropriate for servers, I think we should revisit that post-Dapper | 10:37 |
| mdz | and I think it would mean an ubuntu-server metapackage rather than expanding -minimal | 10:37 |
| ogra | ++ | 10:38 |
| cbx33 | sounds like a good idea to me | 10:38 |
| mdz | sladen: you're satisfied with the specific answer to your question, though, right? | 10:38 |
| sladen | mdz: yeah. I rather have somebody else decide the policy :) | 10:38 |
| mdz | I've added the server power management question to my post-dapper list | 10:38 |
| mdz | next agenda item is from janimo | 10:39 |
| janimo | there are a handful of packages I'd very much like to get into xubuntu. They are gtk-only builds of regular gnome apps. But the gtk only support is either not (yet) upstream, or not taken advantage of in debian packaging | 10:39 |
| janimo | having them separately packaged conflicts with ReducingDuplication | 10:39 |
| mdz | janimo: is it possible to merge your changes into the existing packages, so that they build an alternative set of binaries? | 10:39 |
| mdz | so one source package, 2xN binary packages | 10:39 |
| janimo | mdz, yes that would be ideal | 10:39 |
| mdz | reducing-duplication is only concerned with source | 10:40 |
| janimo | but since most (all?) of thsoe use CDBS | 10:40 |
| janimo | packaging either needs to be very much tweaked | 10:40 |
| janimo | or cdbs1 hacked into supporting multibuild | 10:40 |
| janimo | the former need agreement of respective mainatiners | 10:40 |
| janimo | the latter I am not sure how feasible it is | 10:40 |
| mdz | have you talked with the desktop team about this? they know cdbs quite well | 10:41 |
| janimo | mdz, have not yet. | 10:41 |
| === sladen had a similar issue when wanting to build -i386-win32 binaries for qemu. ideally those would be in the archive too, but I guess the important thing is just argumenting the source-package to always produce two binary packages. | ||
| mdz | perhaps they will have some ideas about how it can be done non-intrusively | 10:41 |
| janimo | ok I'll talk to them | 10:41 |
| mdz | but understand that we are very much in feature freeze now | 10:41 |
| mdz | and if these changes are to receive an exception, they will need to be done with minimal interference with the existing, working packages | 10:42 |
| janimo | mdz, sure. But packaging changes while ugly , should not affect the outcome of the gnome packages at all | 10:42 |
| sabdfl | janimo: good work on xubuntu btw | 10:42 |
| janimo | sabdfl: thanks | 10:42 |
| sabdfl | i have it running on a machine here, and am testing it on low-end hardware | 10:42 |
| sabdfl | very impressive | 10:42 |
| sabdfl | very clean, very fast | 10:42 |
| janimo | sabdfl: great, if you have any suggestions, -> malone :) | 10:43 |
| mdz | janimo: which applications do you want to do this with? do you have a list? | 10:43 |
| janimo | evince, gnome-system-tools, gnumeric, cups-manager | 10:43 |
| sabdfl | janimo: and -> blueprint ;-) | 10:43 |
| mdz | gnome-system-tools without gnome? ;-) | 10:43 |
| janimo | gnumeric maintainer said he's accept patches in debian, but is slow to respond | 10:43 |
| janimo | mdz, you'd be surprised to see how little gnome code is in there | 10:44 |
| === sivang seconds janimo | ||
| janimo | nautilus share and a few gconf bits | 10:44 |
| ogra | yeah, they originally were the ximian-system-tools | 10:44 |
| janimo | I actually have xubuntu-system-tools in universe now | 10:44 |
| sabdfl | janimo: if you're willing to handle merges from debian, go ahead and update the ubuntu package | 10:44 |
| mdz | janimo: do you have a patch for gnumeric? I don't think it uses cdbs | 10:44 |
| janimo | works the same as the original | 10:44 |
| janimo | mdz, gnumeric actually has --disable-gnome in upstream | 10:44 |
| janimo | as it runs on win | 10:45 |
| janimo | and we (Gauvain Pocentek an dmyself) have worked on the pacthes for gnimeric and libgoffice | 10:45 |
| mdz | janimo: but in debian and ubuntu, it's built for gnome | 10:45 |
| janimo | right | 10:45 |
| janimo | but we have pacthes to buold both of them | 10:45 |
| janimo | and yes this is debhelper so it's closer to the goal | 10:45 |
| mdz | perhaps the ideal solution would be to maintain a xubuntu branch of those packages with different packaging, but we don't yet have the infrastructure to support that | 10:46 |
| mdz | janimo: as sabdfl said, we can certainly trial the patches in Ubuntu if the risk is minimal (build failures are very disruptive close to release, though) | 10:47 |
| janimo | mdz, sure. I just want to know (preferably from each maintainer) which way to go | 10:47 |
| seb128 | please don't fork totally the packaging away from Debian | 10:47 |
| janimo | convert to debhelper? | 10:47 |
| seb128 | that's going to mean extra work to merge, etc | 10:47 |
| seb128 | like cdbs to debhelper | 10:47 |
| janimo | seb128: you are involved with most of these packages I think | 10:47 |
| mdz | seb128: agreed | 10:48 |
| janimo | what do you prefer | 10:48 |
| seb128 | yeah, and as already discussed I'm not happy to fork the packages like that | 10:48 |
| janimo | I put this on agenda to find a way we are all happy with | 10:48 |
| seb128 | if we switch from cdbs to debhelper the package is totally different from the Debian one and it means extra work for dholbach and me updating them, syncing with Debian, etc | 10:48 |
| janimo | seb128, could be a temporary switch fro dapper, hoping for dapper+1 either cdbs improves or something else saves us | 10:49 |
| seb128 | grumpf | 10:49 |
| janimo | either way I said I'd help maintain all packages I'd have to tweak | 10:49 |
| mdz | janimo: it's especially important late in the release cycle that we stay agile | 10:49 |
| ogra | thats a bad idea for a 3 year support cycle | 10:49 |
| mdz | so that if we need last-minute fixes we can merge them quickly | 10:49 |
| janimo | I am comfortable with any solution you propose as long as these packages can go into default xubnutu | 10:49 |
| seb128 | I'm not happy to redo totally those package to use debhelper now | 10:50 |
| seb128 | one week before dapper beta | 10:50 |
| mdz | it's truly not a good time to add something like this to dapper | 10:50 |
| janimo | seb128: I don't like debhelper much either | 10:50 |
| mdz | we can consider an exception, but only if it can be done very simply and safely | 10:50 |
| janimo | I;ll continue looking into cdbs multibuild then | 10:50 |
| mdz | which in the cdbs case, it sounds like it cannot | 10:50 |
| sabdfl | agreed, refactoring the packages totally now is not worth it | 10:50 |
| janimo | Kamion proposed a workaround will have to try it. | 10:51 |
| mdz | what was his proposal? | 10:51 |
| janimo | not sure about the details, have to look it up | 10:51 |
| janimo | said it on irc | 10:51 |
| mdz | ok, I'm happy to review it via email | 10:51 |
| janimo | something using a rules file which calls existing one and a new one | 10:51 |
| janimo | so debhelper is not an option for packages using cdbs right? | 10:52 |
| janimo | I am ok with that | 10:52 |
| mdz | janimo: I don't think that would be best | 10:52 |
| mdz | janimo: unfortunately we don't have a perfect solution at this point, but we can continue to discuss alternatives | 10:52 |
| janimo | if we cannot get clean packaging to do this, how bad is having different source packages | 10:52 |
| ogra | and it would likely upset debian maintainers again# | 10:52 |
| ogra | twice the work if you have a security patch | 10:53 |
| mdz | janimo: sorry we don't have a magic bullet to offer, but are you satisfied enough with the discussion to take the remainder to email? | 10:53 |
| janimo | sure | 10:53 |
| mdz | thanks | 10:53 |
| mdz | is there any other business? | 10:53 |
| janimo | ubuntu-devel ? | 10:53 |
| mdz | janimo: sure, but CC me or bring it to my attention or I may not see it there | 10:54 |
| mdz | ubuntu-devel is very noisy these days | 10:54 |
| janimo | ok | 10:54 |
| mdz | last call for other business | 10:55 |
| mdz | ok, adjourned | 10:55 |
| mdz | thanks, everyone | 10:55 |
| Keybuk | whew, just under an hour | 10:55 |
| Keybuk | we're getting good at this | 10:55 |
| mdz | Keybuk: you should have seen the last one | 10:55 |
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| sabdfl | thanks! | 10:57 |
| Seveas | mdz, that one was ridicuous | 10:58 |
| Howdy125 | I can report a problem if you guys are bored .. | 10:58 |
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| Keybuk | how long was it? | 10:59 |
| Seveas | about a minute | 10:59 |
| sivang | not long | 10:59 |
| sivang | :) | 10:59 |
| Seveas | there was NO agenda | 10:59 |
| sivang | indeed | 10:59 |
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