[12:36] <kbrooks> !schedule EST
[12:36] <kbrooks> !schedule EST
[12:36] <kbrooks> Seveas: hpw do i get the schedule?
[12:37] <Seveas> see bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
[12:41] <kbrooks> !schedule Toronto
[12:45] <Meyer> @schedule brazil/east
[12:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Brazil/East: 11 Apr 17:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 09:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 11:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 11:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 18:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 09:00: Edubuntu
[02:16] <kbrooks> @schedule Toronto
[02:16] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 11 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 10:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
[02:16] <kbrooks> there
[02:56] <Lathiat> @schedule Australia/Perth
[02:56] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Perth: 12 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 22:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 05:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu
[02:56] <Lathiat> ooh, thats nifty
[07:55] <Seveas> @schedule gmt-5
[07:55] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT-5: 12 Apr 01:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 17:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 19:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 19:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 02:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 17:00: Edubuntu
[07:55] <Seveas> works perfectly
[07:58] <Meyer> :P
[08:01] <Lathiat> yeh thats fantastic
[08:01] <Lathiat> props to whoevers fault that is
[08:01] <Lathiat> @schedule gmt+8
[08:01] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+8: 11 Apr 12:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 06:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 06:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 13:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu
[08:02] <Seveas> hmm, still
[08:02] <Seveas> + and - seems messed up
[08:03] <robitaille> @schedule us/pacific
[08:03] <Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 11 Apr 13:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 07:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu
[01:20] <Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
[01:21] <neuralis> @schedule New_York
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 11 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 10:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
[01:26] <fabbione> @schedule North_Pole
[01:27] <fabbione> tsk
[01:27] <fabbione> @schedule artic
[01:27] <fabbione> @schedule arctic
[01:28] <fabbione> it's there!
[01:28] <Seveas> @schedule Arctic/Longyearbyen
[01:28] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Arctic/Longyearbyen: 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
[01:28] <sivang> fabbione: you in the arctic now?
[01:28] <sivang> @schedule Israel
[01:28] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 11 Apr 23:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 17:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 17:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 00:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu
[01:28] <fabbione> sivang: i won't tell you
[01:28] <sivang> fabbione: heh :)
[01:29] <neuralis> @schedule South_Pole
[01:29] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Antarctica/South_Pole: 12 Apr 08:00: Technical Board | 13 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu | 13 Apr 02:00: Xubuntu | 14 Apr 02:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 09:00: Community Council | 20 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu
[01:29] <neuralis> fabbione: there, just a bit off ;)
[01:29] <fabbione> yeah only 180 degrees
[01:29] <sivang> neuralis: on one of the polls as well? :)
[01:38] <ajmitch> looks like the south pole is on NZ time :)
[09:01] <mdz> good morning
[09:06] <ogra> pretty empty agenda again
[09:07] <Keybuk> it's not for another hour :)
[09:08] <ogra> so you expect the agenda to grow ? :)
[09:08] <Keybuk> it usually does a bit
[09:17] <mdz> dholbach: did you get in touch with Cropalato?
[09:22] <dholbach> mdz: cropalato was one of the motu applicants?
[09:23] <dholbach> mdz: if so, i got in touch with everybody who signed up for ubuntu-{core-,}dev
[09:24] <dholbach> and had no responses apart from those i told you about :/
[09:36] <mdz> dholbach: yes
[09:58] <Keybuk> right, brb for coffee
[09:59] <mdz> brh for meeting
[10:00] <mdz> agenda is very lightweight, especially if lifeless doesn't turn up
[10:00] <freeflying> mdz: hi
[10:01] <mdz> freeflying: hi
[10:01] <mdz> mjg59 said that he would not be able to make it
[10:01] <mdz> sabdfl doesn't seem to be around either, so just me and Keybuk tonight
[10:02] <Keybuk> "the terrible twosome"
[10:02] <freeflying> mdz: I'm in ture of apply for dev 
[10:02] <mdz> freeflying: pardon?
[10:02] <freeflying> mdz: zpply for ubuntu-developer membership
[10:03] <freeflying> s/zpply/apply
[10:03] <mdz> freeflying: what is your launchpad username?  I don't see you on the list
[10:03] <freeflying> mdz: zhengpeng-hou
[10:03] <mdz> oh, you applied a long time ago apparently
[10:04] <mdz> is this the first meeting you've been able to attend since January?
[10:04] <Keybuk> mdz: uh, did someone move "Proposed Members"
[10:04] <mdz> Keybuk: there aren't any for core
[10:04] <Keybuk> mdz: ah!
[10:04] <mdz> it's there on ubuntu-dev
[10:04] <freeflying> mdz: this is the second 
[10:05] <mdz> hmm, I think you applied during the meeting where I wasn't here
[10:05] <mdz> what was the outcome?
[10:05] <Keybuk> mdz: we asked him to work more closely with the other scim maintainers and the other MOTU
[10:05] <Keybuk> as well as increase his usage of Malone
[10:05] <freeflying> mdz: was rejected one month ago , due to the low karma value
[10:06] <Keybuk> s/rejected/deferred/
[10:06] <Keybuk> but yes
[10:06] <mdz> freeflying: is there still difficulty between you and minghua?
[10:06] <freeflying> mdz: i don't think we have 
[10:07] <mdz> dholbach: any feedback from MOTU about freeflying's involvement since?
[10:07] <mvo> mdz: I worked with him on various CJK related issues (input methods, fonts) and he is very active 
[10:07] <dholbach> mdz: i can't say I worked much with freeflying - I think he was more involved with mvo and the KDE guys
[10:07] <mdz> mvo: have you sponsored packages or patches for him?
[10:07] <mvo> I sponsored some of his patches
[10:08] <mdz> freeflying: who have you been working with primarily?
[10:08] <freeflying> mdz:  Riddell 
[10:08] <mdz> Riddell: around?
[10:09] <Riddell> hi
[10:09] <mdz> Riddell: have you sponsored packages for freeflying? any feedback?
[10:09] <Riddell> freeflying's packages have been getting steddily better and for scim-bridge which I think was the last I reviewed I just had to correct the English on the description
[10:10] <mdz> freeflying: I must say that cooperation is very important in our teams; I'm concerned about the fact that there was such a heated conflict over scim in the past
[10:10] <mvo> I sponsored the initial scim-bridge upload and was happy with the quality
[10:11] <mdz> freeflying: if you were in the same position again, what might you do differently?
[10:12] <freeflying> mdz: we had disagreement before on scim
[10:12] <freeflying> mdz: but that don't mean I will not cooperate 
[10:12] <sabdfl> ello there
[10:12] <ogra> hey sabdfl 
[10:12] <sabdfl> sorry to be late
[10:12] <sabdfl> where are we?
[10:12] <sabdfl> hey michael
[10:13] <ogra> sabdfl, first ubuntu-dev wannabe
[10:13] <ogra> (freeflying)
[10:13] <mdz> sabdfl: see paste in /msg
[10:13] <mdz> freeflying: if you had such a disagreement today, what might you do differently?
[10:14] <freeflying> mdz: now we haven't any disagreeement 
[10:14] <freeflying> mdz: you know scim is in main now , and is the default for cjk users 
[10:14] <sabdfl> freeflying: i saw some of the correspondence that flew around, and it struck me that you were very confrontational in your approach
[10:15] <sabdfl> the other correspondent was bein cautious and reasonable
[10:15] <sabdfl> i like your energy, and your willingness to learn and contribute
[10:15] <mdz> freeflying: perhaps my question was unclear.  if you had a different disagreement, perhaps with someone else, would you handle the situation in the same way?  or would you do something differently?
[10:15] <sabdfl> but i'm a bit concerned about your approach to dealing with folks who are more cautious or who see things differently
[10:15] <freeflying> mdz: I'd talk with him 
[10:16] <sabdfl> glad to hear Riddell and others are impressed with the improving quality of your work
[10:16] <freeflying> sabdfl: thx
[10:17] <mdz> Keybuk: his earlier deferral was in part based on your concerns; do you have any questions?
[10:18] <Keybuk> I'm glad he's taken up my advice to work more with Launchpad and Malone, so I'm happy with his improvement there
[10:18] <Keybuk> But I still don't think he's shown improvement in how he deals with others, especially minghua
[10:18] <Keybuk> freeflying: have you spoken to minghua since the last meeting?  worked out your differences?
[10:19] <freeflying> Keybuk: we have talked something about improve the support for scim
[10:19] <mdz> freeflying: according to Launchpad, you've signed the code of conduct, however, I do not feel that your earlier exchange regarding scim honored the CoC
[10:20] <mdz> freeflying: however, you have made substantial code contributions which we appreciate, and I would like to recognize your continued involvement
[10:20] <sabdfl> freeflying: we don't want to beat up on you for a past approach which you've now gotten over
[10:20] <sabdfl> i recognise that you're on a steep learning curve, and doing very well
[10:20] <sabdfl> but this interpersonal approach is very, very important in ubuntu
[10:21] <freeflying> sabdfl: I see , I just appreciate this , so Iinvolved in ubuntu community 
[10:22] <sabdfl> ok
[10:22] <Riddell> I didn't see much of the scim disagreement, but freeflying has always been very couteous and good to work with on #kubuntu-devel
[10:22] <Keybuk> I think for me, he's shown enough of an improvement in his developer skills to join the ubuntu-dev team; and that by joining the team he'll improve his communication
[10:22] <Keybuk> he's certainly shown great willingless to improve
[10:22] <sabdfl> freeflying: do we have your commitment to think carefully before you flame someone with whom you disagree?
[10:22] <mvo> I have a good working relationship with him too
[10:23] <Riddell> seems he and others in the Chinese ubuntu community were quite upset about the fridge story that was posted today, but freeflying was very good at explaining his concerns
[10:23] <sabdfl> mvo: it was more a disagreement on the maturity of the code, and as it happens, freeflying's approach of "lets just get it in" won the day
[10:24] <sabdfl> fridge story?
[10:24] <freeflying> sabdfl: I will not flame with any disagreement 
[10:24] <sabdfl> freeflying: ok, then +1 from me, and a big thank you for your contributions so far!
[10:24] <freeflying> sabdfl: I  think anything can be solved by commnuication
[10:24] <freeflying> sabdfl: thanks
[10:25] <Riddell> sabdfl: looks like it has been removed now
[10:25] <sabdfl> hmm... sounds like i should know a bit about htat
[10:25] <mdz> +1, but with a strong urging to remember the CoC and resolve disagreements amicably, avoiding personal conflict
[10:25] <sabdfl> anyhow, keybuk? mdz?
[10:26] <Keybuk> +1 from me
[10:26] <freeflying> mdz: thanks , and I will
[10:26] <mdz> freeflying: if you find yourself in a difficult position, feel free to peaceably escalate the issue to the tech board or community council; we're here to help
[10:26] <freeflying> Keybuk: thanks
[10:26] <freeflying> mdz: ya
[10:26] <mdz> freeflying: welcome to the team
[10:27] <mvo> congrats freeflying!
[10:27] <ogra> congrats freeflying 
[10:27] <freeflying> thansk  mvo  Riddell  sabdfl  mdz Keybuk 
[10:27] <dholbach> congratulations freeflying
[10:27] <freeflying> ogra: thanks
[10:27] <freeflying> dholbach: thx
[10:27] <mdz> is there anyone else here applying for ubuntu-dev?
[10:27] <mdz> I pinged lifeless earlier, but he doesn't seem to be around
[10:28] <sabdfl> freeflying: what's your launchpad nick?
[10:28] <mdz> sabdfl: https://launchpad.net/people/zhengpeng-hou
[10:28] <LaserJock> congrats freeflying 
[10:28] <mdz> (I updated LP already)
[10:28] <cbx33> congratulations freeflying 
[10:28] <sabdfl> ah
[10:28] <sabdfl> thanks mdz :-)
[10:28] <mdz> not hearing from any other ubuntu-dev applicants, sladen has the first discussion item
[10:28] <freeflying> cbx33: thx
[10:28] <sabdfl> lifeless is hopefully fast asleep right now
[10:28] <sabdfl> or writing tests
[10:28] <mdz> sladen: after seeing the agenda item, I commented on the bug with my feelings on the matter
[10:29] <Keybuk> sabdfl: I thought he did that in his sleep
[10:29] <mdz> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/36838/+index
[10:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36838 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-minimal "ubuntu-minimal/Server does not depend on acpi-support" [Normal,Rejected]  
[10:29] <Keybuk> first up
[10:29] <Keybuk> obvious problem
[10:29] <Keybuk> even if we wanted to, we can't change ubuntu-minimal right now
[10:29] <Keybuk> unless kamion has overcome that bug
[10:30] <mdz> we shouldn't change it at this point in the release cycle anyway, but we can answer the question of what it is meant to be
[10:30] <Keybuk> why doesn't ubuntu-minimal provide acpi-support?
[10:30] <Keybuk> seems logical to me for that to be there
[10:31] <mdz> we do say that minimal is meant to provide hardware support, but I see power management as a special case
[10:31] <mdz> especially in the context of servers
[10:31] <Keybuk> true, most servers don't tend to need hibernation
[10:32] <mdz> and they usually don't want powernowd or the like etiher
[10:32] <sabdfl> do they not cycle down into "slow and power saving" mode?
[10:32] <mdz> and they definitely don't want to automatically power down
[10:32] <Keybuk> mdz: unless the power goes out?
[10:32] <sabdfl> i thought heat generation was the #1 issue in data centers right now?
[10:32] <sabdfl> do Xeon's support speed steppings?
[10:32] <mdz> sabdfl: I think the #1 issue continues to be $ per unit of work done
[10:33] <elmo> mdz: not really
[10:33] <sabdfl> mdz: where some not insignificant chunk of $ goes to air conditioning
[10:33] <elmo> sabdfl is right
[10:33] <sabdfl> QUOTES PAGE
[10:33] <elmo> most vendors are incorporating speedstep stuff into their server line
[10:33] <elmo> precisely because of heat/power issues
[10:33] <sivang> sabdfl: IBM's pServers do that :)
[10:34] <sivang> (move into low workload state with less power consumption and low heat)
[10:34] <mdz> elmo: my point is that that is only one part of the larger equation
[10:34] <mdz> and fwiw, acpi-support has nothing to do with frequency scaling afaik
[10:34] <sabdfl> that's powernowd etc.
[10:35] <sabdfl> do we install the frequency scaling stuff in desktops by default?
[10:35] <mdz> it's mostly infrastructure for suspend and hibernate
[10:35] <mdz> sabdfl: yes, since warty or so
[10:35] <sabdfl> and is it a low-level, daemon like thing that could also go on ubuntu server?
[10:35] <mdz> yes
[10:35] <sabdfl> can it cause problems with hardware that doesn't implement specs correctly?
[10:35] <mdz> I believe all of its dependencies are already in -minimal
[10:35] <mdz> unknown
[10:36] <mdz> note that it's near impossible to exclude packages from it
[10:36] <mdz> if the package does trigger a problem, the user is in trouble
[10:36] <mdz> but I don't know of any such issues with cpufreq
[10:36] <sabdfl> too late for us to get meaningful feedback pre-dapper
[10:36] <mdz> agreed
[10:36] <sladen> mdz: ta.  yup, I closed it after that
[10:37] <mdz> on the larger question of which bits of power management infrastructure might be appropriate for servers, I think we should revisit that post-Dapper
[10:37] <mdz> and I think it would mean an ubuntu-server metapackage rather than expanding -minimal
[10:38] <ogra> ++
[10:38] <cbx33> sounds like a good idea to me
[10:38] <mdz> sladen: you're satisfied with the specific answer to your question, though, right?
[10:38] <sladen> mdz: yeah.  I rather have somebody else decide the policy :)
[10:38] <mdz> I've added the server power management question to my post-dapper list
[10:39] <mdz> next agenda item is from janimo
[10:39] <janimo> there are a handful of packages I'd very much like to get into xubuntu. They are gtk-only builds of regular gnome apps. But the gtk only support is either not (yet) upstream, or not taken advantage of in debian packaging
[10:39] <janimo> having them separately packaged conflicts with ReducingDuplication
[10:39] <mdz> janimo: is it possible to merge your changes into the existing packages, so that they build an alternative set of binaries?
[10:39] <mdz> so one source package, 2xN binary packages
[10:39] <janimo> mdz, yes that would be ideal
[10:40] <mdz> reducing-duplication is only concerned with source
[10:40] <janimo> but since most (all?) of thsoe use CDBS
[10:40] <janimo> packaging either needs to be very much tweaked
[10:40] <janimo> or cdbs1 hacked into supporting multibuild
[10:40] <janimo> the former need agreement of respective mainatiners
[10:40] <janimo> the latter I am not sure how feasible it is
[10:41] <mdz> have you talked with the desktop team about this?  they know cdbs quite well
[10:41] <janimo> mdz, have not yet.
[10:41] <mdz> perhaps they will have some ideas about how it can be done non-intrusively
[10:41] <janimo> ok I'll talk to them
[10:41] <mdz> but understand that we are very much in feature freeze now
[10:42] <mdz> and if these changes are to receive an exception, they will need to be done with minimal interference with the existing, working packages
[10:42] <janimo> mdz, sure. But packaging changes while ugly , should not affect the outcome of the gnome packages at all
[10:42] <sabdfl> janimo: good work on xubuntu btw
[10:42] <janimo> sabdfl: thanks
[10:42] <sabdfl> i have it running on a machine here, and am testing it on low-end hardware
[10:42] <sabdfl> very impressive
[10:42] <sabdfl> very clean, very fast
[10:43] <janimo> sabdfl: great, if you have any suggestions, -> malone :)
[10:43] <mdz> janimo: which applications do you want to do this with?  do you have a list?
[10:43] <janimo> evince, gnome-system-tools, gnumeric, cups-manager
[10:43] <sabdfl> janimo: and -> blueprint ;-)
[10:43] <mdz> gnome-system-tools without gnome? ;-)
[10:43] <janimo> gnumeric maintainer said he's accept patches in debian, but is slow to respond
[10:44] <janimo> mdz, you'd be surprised to see how little gnome code is in there
[10:44] <janimo> nautilus share and a few gconf bits
[10:44] <ogra> yeah, they originally were the ximian-system-tools
[10:44] <janimo> I actually have xubuntu-system-tools in universe now
[10:44] <sabdfl> janimo: if you're willing to handle merges from debian, go ahead and update the ubuntu package
[10:44] <mdz> janimo: do you have a patch for gnumeric?  I don't think it uses cdbs
[10:44] <janimo> works the same as the original
[10:44] <janimo> mdz, gnumeric actually has --disable-gnome in upstream
[10:45] <janimo> as it runs on win
[10:45] <janimo> and we (Gauvain Pocentek an dmyself) have worked on the pacthes for gnimeric and libgoffice
[10:45] <mdz> janimo: but in debian and ubuntu, it's built for gnome
[10:45] <janimo> right
[10:45] <janimo> but we have pacthes to buold both of them
[10:45] <janimo> and yes this is debhelper so it's closer to the goal
[10:46] <mdz> perhaps the ideal solution would be to maintain a xubuntu branch of those packages with different packaging, but we don't yet have the infrastructure to support that
[10:47] <mdz> janimo: as sabdfl said, we can certainly trial the patches in Ubuntu if the risk is minimal (build failures are very disruptive close to release, though)
[10:47] <janimo> mdz, sure. I just want to know (preferably from each maintainer) which way to go
[10:47] <seb128> please don't fork totally the packaging away from Debian
[10:47] <janimo> convert to debhelper?
[10:47] <seb128> that's going to mean extra work to merge, etc
[10:47] <seb128> like cdbs to debhelper
[10:47] <janimo> seb128: you are involved with most of these packages I think
[10:48] <mdz> seb128: agreed
[10:48] <janimo> what do you prefer
[10:48] <seb128> yeah, and as already discussed I'm not happy to fork the packages like that
[10:48] <janimo> I put this on agenda to find a way we are all happy with
[10:48] <seb128> if we switch from cdbs to debhelper the package is totally different from the Debian one and it means extra work for dholbach and me updating them, syncing with Debian, etc
[10:49] <janimo> seb128, could be a temporary switch fro dapper, hoping for dapper+1 either cdbs improves or something else saves us
[10:49] <seb128> grumpf
[10:49] <janimo> either way I said I'd help maintain all packages I'd have to tweak
[10:49] <mdz> janimo: it's especially important late in the release cycle that we stay agile
[10:49] <ogra> thats a bad idea for a 3 year support cycle
[10:49] <mdz> so that if we need last-minute fixes we can merge them quickly
[10:49] <janimo> I am comfortable with any solution you propose as long as these packages can go into default xubnutu
[10:50] <seb128> I'm not happy to redo totally those package to use debhelper now
[10:50] <seb128> one week before dapper beta
[10:50] <mdz> it's truly not a good time to add something like this to dapper
[10:50] <janimo> seb128: I don't like debhelper much either
[10:50] <mdz> we can consider an exception, but only if it can be done very simply and safely
[10:50] <janimo> I;ll continue looking into cdbs multibuild then
[10:50] <mdz> which in the cdbs case,  it sounds like it cannot
[10:50] <sabdfl> agreed, refactoring the packages totally now is not worth it
[10:51] <janimo> Kamion proposed a workaround will have to try it.
[10:51] <mdz> what was his proposal?
[10:51] <janimo> not sure about the details, have to look it up
[10:51] <janimo> said it on irc
[10:51] <mdz> ok, I'm happy to review it via email
[10:51] <janimo> something using a rules file which calls existing one and a new one
[10:52] <janimo> so debhelper is not an option for packages using cdbs right?
[10:52] <janimo> I am ok with that
[10:52] <mdz> janimo: I don't think that would be best
[10:52] <mdz> janimo: unfortunately we don't have a perfect solution at this point, but we can continue to discuss alternatives
[10:52] <janimo> if we cannot get clean packaging to do this, how bad is having different source packages
[10:52] <ogra> and it would likely upset debian maintainers again#
[10:53] <ogra> twice the work if you have a security patch 
[10:53] <mdz> janimo: sorry we don't have a magic bullet to offer, but are you satisfied enough with the discussion to take the remainder to email?
[10:53] <janimo> sure
[10:53] <mdz> thanks
[10:53] <mdz> is there any other business?
[10:53] <janimo> ubuntu-devel ?
[10:54] <mdz> janimo: sure, but CC me or bring it to my attention or I may not see it there
[10:54] <mdz> ubuntu-devel is very noisy these days
[10:54] <janimo> ok
[10:55] <mdz> last call for other business
[10:55] <mdz> ok, adjourned
[10:55] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[10:55] <Keybuk> whew, just under an hour
[10:55] <Keybuk> we're getting good at this
[10:55] <mdz> Keybuk: you should have seen the last one
[10:57] <sabdfl> thanks!
[10:58] <Seveas> mdz, that one was ridicuous 
[10:58] <Howdy125> I can report a problem if you guys are bored .. 
[10:59] <Keybuk> how long was it?
[10:59] <Seveas> about a minute
[10:59] <sivang> not long
[10:59] <sivang> :)
[10:59] <Seveas> there was NO agenda 
[10:59] <sivang> indeed