=== slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ddonky [n=don@66-190-240-198.dhcp.klmt.or.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kbrooks [n=kbrooks@unaffiliated/kbrooks] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:36] !schedule EST [12:36] !schedule EST [12:36] Seveas: hpw do i get the schedule? [12:37] see bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html [12:41] !schedule Toronto === olive [n=olive@o.o6.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:45] @schedule brazil/east [12:45] Schedule for Brazil/East: 11 Apr 17:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 09:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 11:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 11:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 18:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 09:00: Edubuntu === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:16] @schedule Toronto [02:16] Schedule for America/Toronto: 11 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 10:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu [02:16] there [02:56] @schedule Australia/Perth [02:56] Schedule for Australia/Perth: 12 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 22:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 05:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu [02:56] ooh, thats nifty === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase_ [n=cyphase@adsl-75-2-137-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Ekushey [i=blackmor@cyberpunks.gr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === olive [n=olive@o.o6.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra_ibook [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === No1Viking [n=Viking@h-83-140-104-3.ip.cust.port80.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:55] @schedule gmt-5 [07:55] Schedule for Etc/GMT-5: 12 Apr 01:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 17:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 19:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 19:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 02:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 17:00: Edubuntu [07:55] works perfectly [07:58] :P [08:01] yeh thats fantastic [08:01] props to whoevers fault that is [08:01] @schedule gmt+8 [08:01] Schedule for Etc/GMT+8: 11 Apr 12:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 06:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 06:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 13:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu [08:02] hmm, still [08:02] + and - seems messed up [08:03] @schedule us/pacific [08:03] Schedule for US/Pacific: 11 Apr 13:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 07:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B0C73.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dieffel [n=dieffel@535A972B.flatrate.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@p54A65E5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-75-2-137-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-097-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === olive [n=olive@o.o6.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.212.70] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kbrooks [n=kbrooks@unaffiliated/kbrooks] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === _mvo_ [n=egon@p54A67D29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jane_ [n=JaneW@dsl-165-220-236.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo__ [n=egon@p54A67D29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === wold [n=wold@ev-217-129-81-225.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Blippe [n=henryson@1-1-11-41a.f.sth.bostream.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === boglot [i=chaas@haas.workdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LazySod [n=henryson@1-1-11-41a.f.sth.bostream.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cassidy [n=cassidy@physInfo-mac26.ulb.ac.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=nico@p508D9043.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:20] @schedule amsterdam [01:20] Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu [01:21] @schedule New_York [01:21] Schedule for America/New_York: 11 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 10:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu [01:26] @schedule North_Pole [01:27] tsk [01:27] @schedule artic [01:27] @schedule arctic [01:28] it's there! [01:28] @schedule Arctic/Longyearbyen [01:28] Schedule for Arctic/Longyearbyen: 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu [01:28] fabbione: you in the arctic now? [01:28] @schedule Israel [01:28] Schedule for Israel: 11 Apr 23:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 17:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 17:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 00:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu [01:28] sivang: i won't tell you [01:28] fabbione: heh :) [01:29] @schedule South_Pole [01:29] Schedule for Antarctica/South_Pole: 12 Apr 08:00: Technical Board | 13 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu | 13 Apr 02:00: Xubuntu | 14 Apr 02:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 09:00: Community Council | 20 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu [01:29] fabbione: there, just a bit off ;) [01:29] yeah only 180 degrees [01:29] neuralis: on one of the polls as well? :) [01:38] looks like the south pole is on NZ time :) === ogra_ibook [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jmg [n=cartel@shinobi.thoughtcrime.org.nz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.36] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === wold [n=wold@ev-217-129-81-225.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.36] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === caci [i=sk@andariel.informatik.uni-erlangen.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Meyer_ [i=mariomey@ubuntu/member/mariomeyer] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Meyer_ is now known as Meyer === Sergi0 [n=serge@ip227-28-166-62.adsl.versatel.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ajmitch__ [n=ajmitch@port162-97.ubs.maxnet.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Jozo_ [i=jozo@viola.uninea.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Bluekuja [n=bluekuja@host15-171.pool8250.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hunger [n=tobias@p54A61B6D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-68-200-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === No1Viking [n=Viking@h-83-140-104-3.ip.cust.port80.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.212.70] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Chousuke [i=choubaka@ihme.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cassidy [n=cassidy@physInfo-mac26.ulb.ac.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bert [n=bert@c537566d7.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hunger [n=tobias@p54A63D82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@pD9E24F89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=nico@p508D9043.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=nico@p508D9043.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hunger [n=tobias@p54A63D82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cassidy [n=cassidy@physInfo-mac26.ulb.ac.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Chousuke [i=choubaka@ihme.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === No1Viking [n=Viking@h-83-140-104-3.ip.cust.port80.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Bluekuja [n=bluekuja@host15-171.pool8250.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Jozo_ [i=jozo@viola.uninea.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ajmitch [n=ajmitch@port162-97.ubs.maxnet.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Meyer [i=mariomey@ubuntu/member/mariomeyer] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === caci [i=sk@andariel.informatik.uni-erlangen.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.36] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === wold [n=wold@ev-217-129-81-225.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jmg [n=cartel@shinobi.thoughtcrime.org.nz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LazySod [n=henryson@1-1-11-41a.f.sth.bostream.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === boglot [i=chaas@haas.workdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-165-220-236.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-097-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-75-2-137-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Ekushey [i=blackmor@fedora/Ekushey] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === asw [n=asw@karuna.med.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === simira [n=simira@tellus.err.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lathiat [i=lathiat@ubuntu/member/pdpc.basic.lathiat] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === azeem [n=mbanck@host109.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Fracture [n=Fracture@dsl-202-173-191-84.qld.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-69-56.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Whatsisname [n=whatsisn@rrcs-67-52-37-209.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === smurf [n=smurf@debian/developer/smurf] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hirvinen [i=hirvinen@kapsi.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === phlaegel [n=phlaegel@atdot.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mithrandir [n=tfheen@c5100BC63.inet.catch.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dAndy [i=[U2FsdGV@rita.cat.pdx.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sladen [i=paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mako [n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Kinnison [n=dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@c-68-50-206-161.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === artnay [i=artnay@hideout.unk.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Toadstool [n=jcorbier@maisel-gw.enst-bretagne.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === neuralis [n=krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Spl4y [i=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bmonty [n=bmontgom@ubuntu/member/bmonty] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Riddell [i=jr@kde/jriddell] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === stgraber [i=steph@xeon.stargate-server.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sivang [i=sivan@ubuntu/member/sivang] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DapperDrake [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === vuntz [n=vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === whiprush [n=jorge@64.62.190.212] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === buxy [n=nnnnnnnn@arrakeen.ouaza.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dieman [n=dieman@3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === siretart [i=siretart@ubuntu/member/siretart] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === nealmcb [n=nealmcb@wikipedia/nealmcb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === buggs [n=noidentd@shadow.splashground.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Meyer [i=mariomey@ubuntu/member/mariomeyer] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ubijtsa [n=ubijtsa@karlsson.force9.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Howdy125 [n=Howdy125@c-67-183-234-108.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@p54A67D29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Chousuke [i=choubaka@ihme.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.207.41.251] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === _mvo_ [n=egon@p54A67D29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === olive [n=olive@o.o6.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bartos [n=bartos@host-62-141-243-75.tomaszow.mm.pl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bartos [n=bartos@host-62-141-243-75.tomaszow.mm.pl] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.207.41.251] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Chousuke_ [i=choubaka@ihme.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Chousuke [i=choubaka@ihme.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mdz [n=mdz@studiocity-motorola-bsr1-70-36-194-85.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:01] good morning === raphink-pbook [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:06] pretty empty agenda again [09:07] it's not for another hour :) [09:08] so you expect the agenda to grow ? :) [09:08] it usually does a bit === seb128 [n=seb128@ANancy-151-1-82-137.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:17] dholbach: did you get in touch with Cropalato? [09:22] mdz: cropalato was one of the motu applicants? [09:23] mdz: if so, i got in touch with everybody who signed up for ubuntu-{core-,}dev [09:24] and had no responses apart from those i told you about :/ [09:36] dholbach: yes === cassidy [n=cassidy@f1-pc174.ulb.ac.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.207.41.251] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.36] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:58] right, brb for coffee [09:59] brh for meeting [10:00] agenda is very lightweight, especially if lifeless doesn't turn up === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:00] mdz: hi === sivang checks the agenda [10:01] freeflying: hi [10:01] mjg59 said that he would not be able to make it [10:01] sabdfl doesn't seem to be around either, so just me and Keybuk tonight [10:02] "the terrible twosome" === sivang lols [10:02] mdz: I'm in ture of apply for dev [10:02] freeflying: pardon? [10:02] mdz: zpply for ubuntu-developer membership [10:03] s/zpply/apply [10:03] freeflying: what is your launchpad username? I don't see you on the list [10:03] mdz: zhengpeng-hou [10:03] oh, you applied a long time ago apparently [10:04] is this the first meeting you've been able to attend since January? [10:04] mdz: uh, did someone move "Proposed Members" === Keybuk doesn't see it [10:04] Keybuk: there aren't any for core [10:04] mdz: ah! [10:04] it's there on ubuntu-dev [10:04] mdz: this is the second [10:05] hmm, I think you applied during the meeting where I wasn't here [10:05] what was the outcome? [10:05] mdz: we asked him to work more closely with the other scim maintainers and the other MOTU [10:05] as well as increase his usage of Malone [10:05] mdz: was rejected one month ago , due to the low karma value [10:06] s/rejected/deferred/ [10:06] but yes [10:06] freeflying: is there still difficulty between you and minghua? [10:06] mdz: i don't think we have [10:07] dholbach: any feedback from MOTU about freeflying's involvement since? [10:07] mdz: I worked with him on various CJK related issues (input methods, fonts) and he is very active [10:07] mdz: i can't say I worked much with freeflying - I think he was more involved with mvo and the KDE guys [10:07] mvo: have you sponsored packages or patches for him? [10:07] I sponsored some of his patches [10:08] freeflying: who have you been working with primarily? [10:08] mdz: Riddell [10:08] Riddell: around? [10:09] hi [10:09] Riddell: have you sponsored packages for freeflying? any feedback? [10:09] freeflying's packages have been getting steddily better and for scim-bridge which I think was the last I reviewed I just had to correct the English on the description [10:10] freeflying: I must say that cooperation is very important in our teams; I'm concerned about the fact that there was such a heated conflict over scim in the past [10:10] I sponsored the initial scim-bridge upload and was happy with the quality [10:11] freeflying: if you were in the same position again, what might you do differently? [10:12] mdz: we had disagreement before on scim === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:12] mdz: but that don't mean I will not cooperate [10:12] ello there [10:12] hey sabdfl [10:12] sorry to be late [10:12] where are we? === mvo waves to sabdfl [10:12] hey michael [10:13] sabdfl, first ubuntu-dev wannabe [10:13] (freeflying) [10:13] sabdfl: see paste in /msg [10:13] freeflying: if you had such a disagreement today, what might you do differently? [10:14] mdz: now we haven't any disagreeement === j_ack [n=nico@p508D9043.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:14] mdz: you know scim is in main now , and is the default for cjk users [10:14] freeflying: i saw some of the correspondence that flew around, and it struck me that you were very confrontational in your approach [10:15] the other correspondent was bein cautious and reasonable [10:15] i like your energy, and your willingness to learn and contribute === cbx33 [n=pete@84-45-238-195.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:15] freeflying: perhaps my question was unclear. if you had a different disagreement, perhaps with someone else, would you handle the situation in the same way? or would you do something differently? === crimsun [i=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:15] but i'm a bit concerned about your approach to dealing with folks who are more cautious or who see things differently [10:15] mdz: I'd talk with him [10:16] glad to hear Riddell and others are impressed with the improving quality of your work [10:16] sabdfl: thx [10:17] Keybuk: his earlier deferral was in part based on your concerns; do you have any questions? [10:18] I'm glad he's taken up my advice to work more with Launchpad and Malone, so I'm happy with his improvement there [10:18] But I still don't think he's shown improvement in how he deals with others, especially minghua === lbm [n=lbm@x1-6-00-13-10-7a-d1-e4.k233.webspeed.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:18] freeflying: have you spoken to minghua since the last meeting? worked out your differences? [10:19] Keybuk: we have talked something about improve the support for scim [10:19] freeflying: according to Launchpad, you've signed the code of conduct, however, I do not feel that your earlier exchange regarding scim honored the CoC [10:20] freeflying: however, you have made substantial code contributions which we appreciate, and I would like to recognize your continued involvement [10:20] freeflying: we don't want to beat up on you for a past approach which you've now gotten over [10:20] i recognise that you're on a steep learning curve, and doing very well [10:20] but this interpersonal approach is very, very important in ubuntu [10:21] sabdfl: I see , I just appreciate this , so Iinvolved in ubuntu community [10:22] ok [10:22] I didn't see much of the scim disagreement, but freeflying has always been very couteous and good to work with on #kubuntu-devel [10:22] I think for me, he's shown enough of an improvement in his developer skills to join the ubuntu-dev team; and that by joining the team he'll improve his communication [10:22] he's certainly shown great willingless to improve [10:22] freeflying: do we have your commitment to think carefully before you flame someone with whom you disagree? [10:22] I have a good working relationship with him too === mvo didn't knew about the scim disagrement [10:23] seems he and others in the Chinese ubuntu community were quite upset about the fridge story that was posted today, but freeflying was very good at explaining his concerns [10:23] mvo: it was more a disagreement on the maturity of the code, and as it happens, freeflying's approach of "lets just get it in" won the day [10:24] fridge story? [10:24] sabdfl: I will not flame with any disagreement [10:24] freeflying: ok, then +1 from me, and a big thank you for your contributions so far! [10:24] sabdfl: I think anything can be solved by commnuication [10:24] sabdfl: thanks [10:25] sabdfl: looks like it has been removed now [10:25] hmm... sounds like i should know a bit about htat [10:25] +1, but with a strong urging to remember the CoC and resolve disagreements amicably, avoiding personal conflict [10:25] anyhow, keybuk? mdz? === wold [n=wold@ev-217-129-81-225.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:26] +1 from me [10:26] mdz: thanks , and I will [10:26] freeflying: if you find yourself in a difficult position, feel free to peaceably escalate the issue to the tech board or community council; we're here to help [10:26] Keybuk: thanks [10:26] mdz: ya [10:26] freeflying: welcome to the team [10:27] congrats freeflying! [10:27] congrats freeflying [10:27] thansk mvo Riddell sabdfl mdz Keybuk [10:27] congratulations freeflying [10:27] ogra: thanks [10:27] dholbach: thx [10:27] is there anyone else here applying for ubuntu-dev? [10:27] I pinged lifeless earlier, but he doesn't seem to be around [10:28] freeflying: what's your launchpad nick? [10:28] sabdfl: https://launchpad.net/people/zhengpeng-hou [10:28] congrats freeflying [10:28] (I updated LP already) [10:28] congratulations freeflying [10:28] ah [10:28] thanks mdz :-) [10:28] not hearing from any other ubuntu-dev applicants, sladen has the first discussion item [10:28] cbx33: thx [10:28] lifeless is hopefully fast asleep right now [10:28] or writing tests [10:28] sladen: after seeing the agenda item, I commented on the bug with my feelings on the matter [10:29] sabdfl: I thought he did that in his sleep [10:29] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/36838/+index [10:29] Malone bug 36838 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-minimal "ubuntu-minimal/Server does not depend on acpi-support" [Normal,Rejected] [10:29] first up [10:29] obvious problem [10:29] even if we wanted to, we can't change ubuntu-minimal right now [10:29] unless kamion has overcome that bug === olemke [n=olemke@p5489461B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:30] we shouldn't change it at this point in the release cycle anyway, but we can answer the question of what it is meant to be [10:30] why doesn't ubuntu-minimal provide acpi-support? [10:30] seems logical to me for that to be there [10:31] we do say that minimal is meant to provide hardware support, but I see power management as a special case [10:31] especially in the context of servers [10:31] true, most servers don't tend to need hibernation [10:32] and they usually don't want powernowd or the like etiher [10:32] do they not cycle down into "slow and power saving" mode? [10:32] and they definitely don't want to automatically power down [10:32] mdz: unless the power goes out? [10:32] i thought heat generation was the #1 issue in data centers right now? [10:32] do Xeon's support speed steppings? [10:32] sabdfl: I think the #1 issue continues to be $ per unit of work done [10:33] mdz: not really [10:33] mdz: where some not insignificant chunk of $ goes to air conditioning [10:33] sabdfl is right [10:33] QUOTES PAGE [10:33] most vendors are incorporating speedstep stuff into their server line [10:33] precisely because of heat/power issues [10:33] sabdfl: IBM's pServers do that :) === llolp [n=mark@80-42-155-192.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:34] (move into low workload state with less power consumption and low heat) [10:34] elmo: my point is that that is only one part of the larger equation [10:34] and fwiw, acpi-support has nothing to do with frequency scaling afaik [10:34] that's powernowd etc. [10:35] do we install the frequency scaling stuff in desktops by default? [10:35] it's mostly infrastructure for suspend and hibernate [10:35] sabdfl: yes, since warty or so [10:35] and is it a low-level, daemon like thing that could also go on ubuntu server? [10:35] yes [10:35] can it cause problems with hardware that doesn't implement specs correctly? [10:35] I believe all of its dependencies are already in -minimal [10:35] unknown [10:36] note that it's near impossible to exclude packages from it [10:36] if the package does trigger a problem, the user is in trouble [10:36] but I don't know of any such issues with cpufreq [10:36] too late for us to get meaningful feedback pre-dapper [10:36] agreed [10:36] mdz: ta. yup, I closed it after that [10:37] on the larger question of which bits of power management infrastructure might be appropriate for servers, I think we should revisit that post-Dapper [10:37] and I think it would mean an ubuntu-server metapackage rather than expanding -minimal [10:38] ++ [10:38] sounds like a good idea to me [10:38] sladen: you're satisfied with the specific answer to your question, though, right? [10:38] mdz: yeah. I rather have somebody else decide the policy :) [10:38] I've added the server power management question to my post-dapper list [10:39] next agenda item is from janimo [10:39] there are a handful of packages I'd very much like to get into xubuntu. They are gtk-only builds of regular gnome apps. But the gtk only support is either not (yet) upstream, or not taken advantage of in debian packaging [10:39] having them separately packaged conflicts with ReducingDuplication [10:39] janimo: is it possible to merge your changes into the existing packages, so that they build an alternative set of binaries? [10:39] so one source package, 2xN binary packages [10:39] mdz, yes that would be ideal [10:40] reducing-duplication is only concerned with source [10:40] but since most (all?) of thsoe use CDBS [10:40] packaging either needs to be very much tweaked [10:40] or cdbs1 hacked into supporting multibuild [10:40] the former need agreement of respective mainatiners [10:40] the latter I am not sure how feasible it is [10:41] have you talked with the desktop team about this? they know cdbs quite well [10:41] mdz, have not yet. === sladen had a similar issue when wanting to build -i386-win32 binaries for qemu. ideally those would be in the archive too, but I guess the important thing is just argumenting the source-package to always produce two binary packages. [10:41] perhaps they will have some ideas about how it can be done non-intrusively [10:41] ok I'll talk to them [10:41] but understand that we are very much in feature freeze now [10:42] and if these changes are to receive an exception, they will need to be done with minimal interference with the existing, working packages [10:42] mdz, sure. But packaging changes while ugly , should not affect the outcome of the gnome packages at all [10:42] janimo: good work on xubuntu btw [10:42] sabdfl: thanks [10:42] i have it running on a machine here, and am testing it on low-end hardware [10:42] very impressive [10:42] very clean, very fast [10:43] sabdfl: great, if you have any suggestions, -> malone :) [10:43] janimo: which applications do you want to do this with? do you have a list? [10:43] evince, gnome-system-tools, gnumeric, cups-manager [10:43] janimo: and -> blueprint ;-) [10:43] gnome-system-tools without gnome? ;-) [10:43] gnumeric maintainer said he's accept patches in debian, but is slow to respond [10:44] mdz, you'd be surprised to see how little gnome code is in there === sivang seconds janimo [10:44] nautilus share and a few gconf bits [10:44] yeah, they originally were the ximian-system-tools [10:44] I actually have xubuntu-system-tools in universe now [10:44] janimo: if you're willing to handle merges from debian, go ahead and update the ubuntu package [10:44] janimo: do you have a patch for gnumeric? I don't think it uses cdbs [10:44] works the same as the original [10:44] mdz, gnumeric actually has --disable-gnome in upstream [10:45] as it runs on win [10:45] and we (Gauvain Pocentek an dmyself) have worked on the pacthes for gnimeric and libgoffice [10:45] janimo: but in debian and ubuntu, it's built for gnome [10:45] right [10:45] but we have pacthes to buold both of them [10:45] and yes this is debhelper so it's closer to the goal [10:46] perhaps the ideal solution would be to maintain a xubuntu branch of those packages with different packaging, but we don't yet have the infrastructure to support that [10:47] janimo: as sabdfl said, we can certainly trial the patches in Ubuntu if the risk is minimal (build failures are very disruptive close to release, though) [10:47] mdz, sure. I just want to know (preferably from each maintainer) which way to go [10:47] please don't fork totally the packaging away from Debian [10:47] convert to debhelper? [10:47] that's going to mean extra work to merge, etc [10:47] like cdbs to debhelper [10:47] seb128: you are involved with most of these packages I think [10:48] seb128: agreed [10:48] what do you prefer [10:48] yeah, and as already discussed I'm not happy to fork the packages like that [10:48] I put this on agenda to find a way we are all happy with [10:48] if we switch from cdbs to debhelper the package is totally different from the Debian one and it means extra work for dholbach and me updating them, syncing with Debian, etc [10:49] seb128, could be a temporary switch fro dapper, hoping for dapper+1 either cdbs improves or something else saves us [10:49] grumpf [10:49] either way I said I'd help maintain all packages I'd have to tweak [10:49] janimo: it's especially important late in the release cycle that we stay agile [10:49] thats a bad idea for a 3 year support cycle [10:49] so that if we need last-minute fixes we can merge them quickly [10:49] I am comfortable with any solution you propose as long as these packages can go into default xubnutu [10:50] I'm not happy to redo totally those package to use debhelper now [10:50] one week before dapper beta [10:50] it's truly not a good time to add something like this to dapper [10:50] seb128: I don't like debhelper much either [10:50] we can consider an exception, but only if it can be done very simply and safely [10:50] I;ll continue looking into cdbs multibuild then [10:50] which in the cdbs case, it sounds like it cannot [10:50] agreed, refactoring the packages totally now is not worth it [10:51] Kamion proposed a workaround will have to try it. [10:51] what was his proposal? [10:51] not sure about the details, have to look it up [10:51] said it on irc [10:51] ok, I'm happy to review it via email [10:51] something using a rules file which calls existing one and a new one [10:52] so debhelper is not an option for packages using cdbs right? [10:52] I am ok with that [10:52] janimo: I don't think that would be best [10:52] janimo: unfortunately we don't have a perfect solution at this point, but we can continue to discuss alternatives [10:52] if we cannot get clean packaging to do this, how bad is having different source packages [10:52] and it would likely upset debian maintainers again# [10:53] twice the work if you have a security patch [10:53] janimo: sorry we don't have a magic bullet to offer, but are you satisfied enough with the discussion to take the remainder to email? [10:53] sure [10:53] thanks [10:53] is there any other business? [10:53] ubuntu-devel ? [10:54] janimo: sure, but CC me or bring it to my attention or I may not see it there [10:54] ubuntu-devel is very noisy these days [10:54] ok [10:55] last call for other business [10:55] ok, adjourned [10:55] thanks, everyone [10:55] whew, just under an hour [10:55] we're getting good at this [10:55] Keybuk: you should have seen the last one === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [10:57] thanks! [10:58] mdz, that one was ridicuous [10:58] I can report a problem if you guys are bored .. === bur[n] er [n=burner@c-67-173-243-73.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:59] how long was it? [10:59] about a minute [10:59] not long [10:59] :) [10:59] there was NO agenda [10:59] indeed === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === llolp [n=mark@80-42-155-192.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] === Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting [""] === G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/g0sub] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === crimsun [i=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Sanne [n=Sanne@p548D99A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Sanne [n=Sanne@p548D99A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Goodbye"] === freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.36] has joined #ubuntu-meeting