[01:17] <Seveas> omg
[01:18] <Seveas> who messed with the defaut background? 
[01:18] <mdke> what's happened to it?
[01:18] <Seveas> it's so funny - let's wait or all mailinglist people to get upset again
[01:18] <Seveas> mdke, someone painted in it
[01:19] <mdke> screenie?
[01:20] <Seveas> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12055
[01:21] <mdke> hmm
[01:21] <Burgwork> hmm, indeed
[01:21] <mdke> i bet it's "joker" holbach
[01:21] <Burgwork> might be nice to have a lighter background by default
[01:22] <mdke> I like a dark one myself, I've been using dapper.png, very nice
[01:22] <Burgwork> I had one person descibe the current breezy background as "diving down an endless void:
[01:22] <Burgwork> "
[01:23] <Burgwork> Seveas, what is that orange bar thing that the top?
[01:24] <Seveas> Burgwork, the new netstatus applet icon
[01:24] <Seveas> pretty fugly
[01:24] <Seveas> but a better one has been promised
[01:24] <Burgwork> haha
[01:24] <mdke> Seveas, I haven't had a netherlandish translation of the browser start page, if you fancy the task
[01:24] <Burgwork> somebody has already complained on ubuntu-devel
[01:25] <LaserJock> lol
[01:25] <Seveas> mdke, just replied to your loco-contacts mail
[01:25] <ajmitch> Burgwork: are you at all surprised?
[01:25] <mdke> it's quite a sensible complaint
[01:25] <Burgwork> ajmitch, at this point, never
[01:25] <mdke> Seveas, ah cool
[01:26] <Burgwork> good thing the final artwork will be in by the Beta release
[01:26] <ogra> jordi, do you happen to be around ? 
[01:31] <ogra> anybody here with a powerpc on dapper who has flickering GL screensavers and would like to test a fix ? 
[01:31] <ogra> (got no other machine around to build a testpackage, sorry)
[01:32] <Burgwork> LaserJock, do you just have Mactel?
[01:32] <sladen> ogra: I can test it from source if you have a debdiff
[01:33] <LaserJock> Burgwork: yes, for mac
[01:33] <Burgwork> LaserJock, ah
[01:34] <Burgwork> my ex has one, but I doubt she would let be put Ubuntu on it
[01:34] <ogra> sladen, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/gss/
[01:34] <ogra> there is the source ...
[01:34] <sladen> at least she's not your ex-, because you *did*
[01:35] <Burgwork> sladen, got one of those, do you?
[01:42] <mdke> Burgwork, that's a yes
[01:42] <mdke> night all
[02:05] <LaserJock> cya mdke 
[02:07] <sladen> ogra: the patch is a bit hackish, but it works.  Shall I upload it?
[02:08] <ogra> can you add the "closes malone blah" ? 
[02:08] <ogra> else, sure, lets get that out asap :)
[02:10] <ogra> i'm happy it circumvents the adding of a GL dependency to gss
[02:29] <infinity> bddebian: ygraph is FTBFS on all arches -- https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ygraph/0.15-2ubuntu1
[02:58] <lifeless> is booting from lvm supported these days ?
[02:59] <lifeless> ... with grub ?
[03:02] <ajmitch> lifeless: not that I'm aware of
[03:05] <lifeless> ajmitch: shame. thanks
[03:07] <womble> lifeless: No.  Definitely not.
[03:08] <OrionUser> does ubuntu support Via chipsets?
[03:09] <HrdwrBoB> ... yes, and this is the wrong place to ask
[03:09] <HrdwrBoB> try #ubuntu
[03:09] <OrionUser> i know.... but...
[03:10] <OrionUser> dude, if they don't know all, you will!!!
[03:10] <HrdwrBoB> a) it's a stupid question, via are one of the most popular chipset manufacturers
[03:10] <jamesh> OrionUser: if you try to turn this channel into #ubuntu, the developers will just move important discussion elsewhere
[03:10] <infinity> Yes, and if every user decides their question is so important they they need to ask the developers directly, we'd never have time to develop a distro for you.
[03:11] <HrdwrBoB> b) you should try it first, then ask
[03:11] <OrionUser> ok ok
[03:11] <HrdwrBoB> c) you should at the very least ask #ubuntu first
[03:12] <OrionUser> (you , discuss important stuff, ill try not to comment)
[03:12] <dAndy> Anyone know if apt-get is multi-threaded?
[03:13] <infinity> dAndy: Context?
[03:14] <sladen> orionuser: and if it didn't work, file a bug report...
[03:14] <infinity> dAndy: It can download from multiple sources at once, which is about all the multi-anything you would ever want it to do.
[03:15] <dAndy> infinity: I tried to strace it (I am getting "connection reset by peer" from my mirror, and am trying to figure out whos fault it is)
[03:15] <dAndy> infinity: the strace seemed... odd at best
[03:15] <infinity> You probably want strace -f
[03:16] <infinity> I suspect the download processes are forked children.
[03:16] <infinity> Though just a guess, you'd have to look at the code, or ask mvo to be sure.
[03:16] <dAndy> ah ok cool, that will probably do it
[03:17] <infinity> What?  You've never sat there nervously checking your watch over and over again before? :)
[03:18] <dAndy> heh, I guess
[03:18] <sladen> dAndy: it has to update the spinner.... :)
[03:24] <dAndy> ugh... strace -f makes it both better and worse, this is confusing, it appears to use pipes to communicate to the children or something
[03:27] <dAndy> hmm, fantastic, as far as I can tell from the trace, it never actuall sends a GET for the package that failed
[03:30] <infinity> dAndy: Well, it won't send a GET if it can't connect..
[03:33] <mroth> mjg59: question re: your comment on bug 35174.  by 'next kernel update' do you mean ubuntu packaging of 2.6.15-21, or do you mean upstream 2.6.17 in kernel?
[03:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35174 in acpi-support "ThinkPad X60 cannot resume from sleep/hibernate" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35174
[03:38] <dAndy> infinity: the webserver receives the GET, sends the file and closes the connection normally
[03:41] <sladen> ogra: I got that patch down from 208kB to 10kB and nuked most of the automake bollocks
[03:45] <mjg59> mroth: 2.6.15-21
[03:51] <mroth> mjg59: i was hoping thats what you meant ;-)
[03:51] <mroth> mjg59: anything you want me to test from kernel-source prior to that point to help catch stuff early?
[03:52] <mjg59> mroth: If you're happy building kernels, I have a couple of patches
[03:53] <mroth> mjg59: i wouldnt say I'm HAPPY doing it, but i can probably muddle through
[03:53] <mjg59> mroth: Grab the files from http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/sata
[03:53] <mjg59> The patch applies against 2.6.15-20, the .c file gets copied into drivers/scsi
[03:59] <mroth> mjg59: i assume the patch should only affect hibernate, not the 'sleep' problem
[04:00] <mjg59> mroth: No, should help sleep
[04:00] <mjg59> I suspect hibernate problems at this point are probably X being unhappy, which is kind of hard to fix with the vesa driver
[04:01] <mjg59> But we'll see
[04:02] <mroth> this compile will be the first processor intensive thing i've done on that machine, time to test out the core duo and see if it lives up to the hype
[04:04] <LaserJock> mjg59: that reminds me, how is the Intel mac work going?
[04:05] <jdub> mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/2006/ubuntu-zh.png
[04:05] <mjg59> LaserJock: About as far as it can get until we can produce HFS+ filesystems
[04:05] <mjg59> That is, stuff works (including the installer), but there's no way to boot it...
[04:05] <bddebian> infinity: OK, I'll check it out, thanks
[04:06] <mjg59> jdub: Very disturbing
[04:06] <mjg59> Anyway
[04:06] <Keybuk> mjg59: dinner?! what country are you in?
[04:06] <LaserJock> jdub: nice
[04:06] <LaserJock> mjg59: ok, thanks for the update
[04:07] <Keybuk> jdub: doesn't Malcolm look decadent
[04:07] <bddebian> infinity: Fixed ivtools yet?
[04:10] <bddebian> Uhm, WTF is that
[04:33] <bddebian> infinity: There?
[04:34] <infinity> Ish.  On an international call.
[04:35] <bddebian> I think ygraph just needs an autoreconf, etc.  How do I do that properly for a package?
[04:39] <mroth> mjg59: my kernel compile was aborted on /usb/net/zd1211/zddevlist.h  for some reason
[04:39] <mroth> since my assumption is the kernel-source package woudl compile cleanly with no changes made to the config, is this perhaps related to that patch you sent?
[04:52] <terl> finally! I Have Ubuntu(and Im emulating it in Vmware player on windows!)
[04:56] <bddebian> Uhm, shouldn't that be the other way around? :-)
[05:31] <jsgotangco> hrmm
[06:08] <bddebian> aaaahhh
[06:08] <bddebian> infinity or fabbione: ping?
[06:11] <infinity> pong.
[06:13] <bddebian> x11proto-gl-dev replaced xlibmesa-gl-dev?
[06:14] <Keybuk> what's that word where something is guaranteed to never occur?
[06:15] <Keybuk> assertion!
[06:19] <LaserJock> Noooooo
[06:22] <infinity> bddebian: No, no, no.
[06:22] <infinity> bddebian: You want libgl1-mesa-dev
[06:23] <infinity> bddebian: x11proto-gl-dev is just the wire protocol, has nothing to do with the GL libraries.
[06:23] <bddebian> I have that but it doesn't give GL/GLwMDrawA.h that xlibmesa-gl-dev provided afaict
[06:25] <infinity> Is that in x11proto-gl-dev?
[06:26] <infinity> If so, I suspect libgl1-mesa-dev should be depending on the wire protocol headers, but isn't.
[06:26] <bddebian> No, but apt-getting xlibmeas-gl-dev said x11proto-gl-dev replaces it :-)
[06:26] <infinity> You don't understand what "Replaces" means, then.
[06:26] <infinity> (It means A overwrites some files from B, nothing more)
[06:27] <infinity> Anyhow, we had no xlibmeas-gl-dev in breezy either, so you're pretty seriously out of date. :)
[06:28] <bddebian> Well I knew that but I'm getting all fscking confused.. :'-(
[06:28] <infinity> Right, well, we shipped no GLwMDrawA.h in breezy at all, and most likely don't in dapper either.
[06:29] <infinity> Whether or not that's a bug, I still need to decide.
[06:29] <bddebian> It might not be but xmakemol is looking for it :-(
[06:30] <infinity> Well, we don't ship libGLw at all, so I can't see what good the headers would do.
[06:31] <bddebian> Do you care that you are going to make me cry? ;-P
[06:31] <infinity> Oh, wait.  Hold on.
[06:32] <infinity> No, we really don't.
[06:32] <infinity> Yay for us.
[06:32] <ajmitch> excellent
[06:33] <infinity> When we did, we only shipped it as a static lib.
[06:33] <ajmitch> how evil
[06:33] <infinity> So, xmakemol was linking statically to libGLw.a, or it includes the header but then doesn't use it.  Which one is it?
[06:33] <infinity> I'd rather not reintroduce static-only libraries if we don't have to.
[06:34] <bddebian> I think it's BS in xmakemol, but I'm not sure yet.  Here's the line of code:  
[06:34] <bddebian>   /* aro - might not be necessary if using mesa+linux */
[06:34] <bddebian> #ifdef GL
[06:34] <bddebian> #include <GL/GLwMDrawA.h>  /* OpenGL drawing area widget */
[06:34] <bddebian> #endif /* GL */
[06:34] <infinity> Easy enough to find out.  Remove that, compile it, see if it links, then see if it runs.
[06:35] <bddebian> Yeah, I haven't gotten that far yet
[06:36] <infinity> If you really need it, I can turn it back on, but I'd really rather not.
[06:37] <bddebian> Well I don't "need" it, I'm just trying to bugfix. :-)
[06:37] <sladen> infinity: while you're around, where did  /proc/bus/pnp  go?
[06:38] <fabbione> can somebody please explain to me #24817?
[06:38] <Keybuk> sladen: replaced by /sys/bus/pnp ?
[06:38] <fabbione> how do i select "share"?
[06:38] <Keybuk> sladen: in general, /proc/bus/ANYTHING is bad and should go and die now
[06:38] <infinity> sladen: Like I know.  I don't even have any ISA cards.  But listen to Keybuk. :)
[06:38] <sladen> Keybuk: /sys/bus/pnp is a bit empty
[06:38] <Keybuk> in fact, if you're using /proc/[^0-9]  you'll probably get a shock in the upcoming kernel releases
[06:39] <Keybuk> sladen: update your kernel
[06:39] <Keybuk> sladen: mjg59 broke it because he wants the whole world to use mactel
[06:39] <fabbione> never mind
[06:39] <Keybuk> (kernel pnp subsystem broken by pnp acpi changes)
[06:39] <Keybuk> infinity: yes you do
[06:39] <sladen> Keybuk: nice of him.  feh.
[06:39] <Keybuk> infinity: there's one sitting on your southbridge, taunting you
[06:39] <Keybuk> sladen: is fixed in current dapper
[06:40] <sladen> infinity: you have tonnages of pnp.  try on 'lspnp', oops that won't work
[06:40] <infinity> Keybuk: Okay, okay, I like to pretend the legacy ports don't exist.
[06:40] <Keybuk> sladen: I'm sure I saw a version of lspnp that had been updated somewhere
[06:46] <calamari> hi
[06:46] <sladen> calamari: hi.  very nice of you to pop in.  the weather is wonderful don't you think, perhaps we could have a picnic
[06:47] <calamari> sladen: hehe, kinda dark out, maybe tomorrow?
[06:48] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:52] <bddebian> Hmm, well apparently xmakemol really wants that stupid header..
[06:52] <bddebian> ../xmakemol.c: In function main:
[06:52] <bddebian> ../xmakemol.c:219: error: glwMDrawingAreaWidgetClass undeclared (first use in this function)
[06:52] <bddebian> Now I'm REALLY going to bed..
[06:55] <fabbione> infinity: do you happen to know what's the gnome package that procides the "Share Folders" menu in System -> Admin
[06:58] <infinity> fabbione: system-tools-backends
[06:58] <mjg59> mroth: Ah. Install gawk and delete that file, then retry the build
[06:58] <mjg59> (stupid zd1211)
[06:58] <mjg59> Keybuk: US
[06:58] <fabbione> infinity: thanks
[06:59] <mjg59> sladen: Uh, yes. pnp has lived in sysfs for a while. cat /sys/bus/pnp/*/id
[06:59] <Keybuk> mjg59: what you doing over there?
[06:59] <mjg59> sladen: Sorry, cat /sys/bus/pnp/devices/*/id
[06:59] <mjg59> Keybuk: Linux power management summit
[07:00] <Keybuk> mjg59: fun?
[07:00] <mjg59> Keybuk: Starts in the morning
[07:00] <mjg59> I currently think it's 6AM and all my joints ache from being stuck in economy for 11 hours
[07:01] <sladen> mjg59: doing that lists 1 device.  and not the other 20
[07:01] <Burgundavia> mjg59: where in the US are you?
[07:02] <mjg59> sladen: Without knowing what hardware you have, I'm afraid I can't really comment further
[07:02] <mjg59> sladen: (And no, the change isn't anything to do with me)
[07:02] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Santa Clara
[07:02] <Burgundavia> hmm, California
[07:02] <mjg59> It's damn wet here
[07:04] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:04] <neuralis> mjg59: wrong end of the country. if you wind up at the other side, appreciation for your laptop work will be demonstrated in beer form.
[07:05] <mjg59> neuralis: Probably not for a year at least, but noted :)
[07:33] <dholbach> good morning
[07:55] <Burgundavia> hmm, Fedora is not planning a single install cd, nor resizing in the isntaller
[07:59] <pitti> Good morning
[08:00] <dholbach> heya pitti!
[08:01] <pitti> hi dholbah
[08:01] <pitti> and dholbach, too :)
[08:01] <dholbach> :-)
[08:01] <Keybuk> morning berpitti and dhugbach
[08:05] <pitti> hey Keybuk 
[08:15] <lamont> pitti: you saw that I fixed a belocs-locales-bin bug, yes?
[08:15] <LaserJock> womble: ping?
[08:17] <Keybuk> I still haven't fixed my bugs :-(
[08:25] <LaserJock> womble: unping
[08:30] <pitti> lamont: yes, I read it on -changes
[08:31] <pitti> Keybuk: do you hope to ever fix them all? :)
[08:32] <Keybuk> pitti: yes. all the bugs.
[08:33] <Keybuk> all bugs will be fixed
[08:33] <Keybuk> By Order
[08:34] <_ion> Beginning with #1?
[08:34] <_ion> That would be nice.
[08:34] <pitti> Keybuk: it would be interesting to see if the process of bug fixing converges to 'bug free' in infinite time :)
[08:34] <pitti> so far we seem to get more bugs than we fix
[08:35] <robitaille> we should request for LP to have a nice graph of bugs versus time to see how good/bad we are doing
[08:35] <Burgundavia> pitti: 100+ a day
[08:35] <Burgundavia> new, that is
[08:36] <Keybuk> SHIT KEEPS FALLING!
[08:36] <robitaille> Burgundavia: we have actually ~300 less open bugs than 2 weeks ago.
[08:37] <Burgundavia> far far too much
[08:37] <Burgundavia> we are trying to pass the 10k mark
[08:37] <ajmitch> robitaille: that request was put in months ago :)
[08:38] <ajmitch> bug #2633
[08:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2633 in malone "Graphing & reporting of bug activity" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2633
[08:39] <robitaille> anyone knows if there is a way to find the exact version of a Daily Live CD after it has been burned? 
[08:39] <_ion> keybuk: SHIT = SHIT_0 + v_0 t +  g t
[08:39] <Keybuk> md5sum
[08:40] <Keybuk> C6H12O6(s) + 6O2(g) -> 6CO2(g) + 6H2O(g)
[08:41] <_ion> No need for LaTeXish markup in that case.
[08:41] <robitaille> ajmitch:  thanks.  nice to see that it has already been requested
[08:41] <Keybuk> hmm
[08:41] <Keybuk> ooh
[08:42] <Keybuk> CHO(s) + 6O(g) -> 6CO(g) + 6HO(g)
[08:42] <Keybuk> almost prettier
[08:43] <Keybuk> CHO(s) + 6O(g)  6CO(g) + 6HO(g)
[08:43] <Keybuk> :p
[08:43] <_ion> :-)
[08:44] <Keybuk> but can anyone guess what it is?
[08:44] <_ion> Alcohol? :-)
[08:44] <pitti> _ion: no, that's C2H5OH
[08:44] <Keybuk> not even close
[08:44] <pitti> Keybuk: is it a Benzol ring or a straight molecule?
[08:45] <Keybuk> pitti: nope, the  should give you a clue you're looking at some kind of change
[08:45] <pitti> Keybuk: well, you burn something, of course
[08:45] <pitti> Keybuk: I wondered about what  CHO is
[08:46] <pitti> Keybuk: could be 'Glucose' (that's the word we use in .de)
[08:46] <crimsun> starts with an 'r'
[08:46] <freeflying> pitti: malone #39246
[08:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39246 in language-pack-kde-zh-base "kdelevop3's mo missed in language-pack-kde-zh-base" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39246
[08:46] <Keybuk> yup
[08:46] <Keybuk> chemical burning of glucose
[08:47] <Keybuk> or, to be more poetic, an explosion in a custard factory :)
[08:47] <pitti> Keybuk: or, less poetic, the process in your body cells :)
[08:47] <Keybuk> indeed
[08:48] <pitti> (sure, it's slightly more complicated than that, but the final result should be that)
[08:48] <pitti> crimsun: 'r'?
[08:49] <infinity> Keybuk: I'm puzzled by your last sysvinit upload.  Or I'm misreading the changelog..
[08:49] <Keybuk> infinity: what puzzles you?
[08:49] <crimsun> pitti: aerobic respiration
[08:49] <Keybuk> oh
[08:49] <Keybuk> heh
[08:49] <pitti> crimsun: ah :)
[08:49] <Keybuk> I can see what might puzzle you
[08:49] <infinity> Keybuk: Are you actually mounting /var/{run,lock} elsehwere, or is this just some "move them somwhere during maintainer scripts" hack?
[08:49] <Keybuk> during the "LOOK OVER THERE!" hack
[08:49] <infinity> Ahh, kay.  Fair.
[08:49] <Keybuk> the one during the boot when we might be mounting /var anyway
[08:50] <infinity>  /tmp wasn't a good enough playground?
[08:50] <Keybuk> it upset people with NFS roots that 30 thin clients were all trying to make and remove the /.var.run directory at the same time
[08:50] <Keybuk> /tmp could be mounted in mountall as a tmpfs
[08:50] <_ion> Hehe. http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=182776&cid=15106712
[08:50] <Keybuk> I get the kinds of corner cases that Escher dreamed abouyt
[08:51] <pitti> freeflying: so, you mean that kdevelop.mo is wrong, it should be kdevelop3.mo?
[08:51] <Keybuk> "Hey!  I know I parked that mount here somewhere, WHERE'S IT GONE?"
[08:51] <infinity> Keybuk: And it the user has no devshm?  Are you explicitely mounting it yourself?
[08:51] <freeflying> pitti: ya
[08:51] <Keybuk> infinity: explicitly mounted in mountdevsubfs
[08:52] <Keybuk> of course, I can't just use /dev because they might have removed udev (well, they miiiight)
[08:52] <pitti> freeflying: hmm, but that's the domain that kde-i18n-* has
[08:53] <pitti> freeflying: so it seems that this is a kde-i18n-* bug, will reassign
[08:53] <freeflying> pitti: heh, thx
[08:53] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, but that's not the same script that mounts your stuff.  And init scripts are conffiles.  So, I could rightly say "I don't want no devshm in mountdevsubfs" and then somehow break your var{run,lock} hacks.
[08:54] <Keybuk> infinity: those people are idiots
[08:54] <infinity> Keybuk: And it's certainly not obvious to me that disabling the former breaks the latter.
[08:54] <infinity> Keybuk: It's not intuitive that "not mountind /dev/shm leads to /var/{run,lock} not working"
[08:54] <infinity> Keybuk: So I'm not sure we can label them idiots for it.
[08:54] <Keybuk> the directory has to exist for half the system to work ;)
[08:54] <Keybuk> at least those bits using shared memory
[08:55] <Keybuk> if it's not mounted, it'd still work
[08:55] <Keybuk> it just happens to be a conveninent probably-a-tmpfs
[08:55] <pitti> erm, since when there's no 'Subscribe' item on a Malone bug page any more???
[08:56] <infinity> Keybuk: Then you should at least make sure the directory is there, if you intend to use it.
[08:56] <Keybuk> pitti: if you're already subscribed
[08:56] <pitti> ah, heh, true; thanks, Keybuk 
[08:57] <Keybuk> infinity: tbh, I don't think I care about this particular case that much :D
[08:57] <Keybuk> "user edits system startup script and gets broken startup"
[08:57] <Keybuk> that would go in the great big REJECTED! bin in the sky :p
[08:57] <Treenaks> But I have the RIGHT to edit those scripts! They're in /etc!
[08:57] <infinity> I've not noticed /dev/shm being all that frequently (or at all) used, despite claims it's required.
[08:58] <infinity> But SysV shared memory is much more common than POSIX shared memory.
[08:58] <Keybuk> infinity: it isn't that frequently used
[08:58] <Keybuk> Treenaks: yes, and you get to keep both parts when you break it :P
[09:01] <infinity> You see a maze of Makefiles, all alike.
[09:01] <infinity> Your head explodes.
[09:02] <infinity> Hacking Mozilla (well, Thunderbird today) sources always makes me whimper.
[09:04] <Keybuk> infinity: giggle
[09:04] <Keybuk> want something funny?
[09:04] <Keybuk> comment out that /dev/shm line
[09:04] <Keybuk> boot
[09:04] <Keybuk> and your computer will still think /dev/shm is mounted anyway
[09:04] <Keybuk> yay /etc/mtab being utterly unrelated to /proc/mounts
[09:06] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[09:06] <HrdwrBoB> that's the most retarded thing ever.
[09:06] <HrdwrBoB> well... ok, it's not, but it's still stupid
[09:07] <HrdwrBoB> why /etc/mtab can't be a symlink to /proc/mounts or something similar
[09:07] <infinity> It is on many people's systems. :)
[09:08] <Keybuk> HrdwrBoB: /proc/mounts doesn't have some random piece of information someone cares about
[09:08] <Keybuk> I can't remember what though
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> heh, seems to be MORE in mounts
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> screek:/home/matt/files /home/matt/movies/downloads nfs rw,addr=203.10.72.160 0 0
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> screek:/home/matt/files /home/matt/movies/downloads nfs rw,v3,rsize=32768,wsize=32768,hard,lock,proto=udp,addr=screek 0 0
[09:10] <Keybuk> mounts appears to be missing the user=scott bit from my removable-disk mount
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> though mounts has extra crap and it has / as just 'rootfs' because of the pivot
[09:10] <Keybuk> pitti would know about that
[09:11] <HrdwrBoB> but the basic gist is, why the hell is mtab an editable real file
[09:11] <Keybuk> HrdwrBoB: heh, I thought the only bit of extra crap was /dev/.static/dev and /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc ?
[09:12] <Keybuk> what's wrong with this picture?
[09:12] <pitti> HrdwrBoB: the last time I tried the symlink, it broke gnome-vfs or so, but I don't remember any more
[09:12] <Keybuk> (gdb) break apply_blacklist
[09:12] <Keybuk> Breakpoint 2 at 0x4032f5: file ../modprobe.c, line 720.
[09:12] <Keybuk> (gdb) run -v -n --first-time pnp:dPNP0800
[09:12] <Keybuk> Starting program: /home/scott/work/ubuntu/module-init-tools/module-init-tools-3.2.2/build-tree/module-init-tools-3.2.2/obj/modprobe -v -n --first-time pnp:dPNP0800
[09:12] <Keybuk> insmod /lib/modules/2.6.15-20-amd64-k8/kernel/drivers/input/misc/pcspkr.ko
[09:12] <Keybuk> Program exited normally.
[09:12] <pitti> Keybuk: heh, blacklisting isn't called at all? :)
[09:12] <Keybuk> pitti: indeed
[09:12] <sivang> morning
[09:13] <pitti> Keybuk: that's a function I greatly miss in gdb, too: 'Show me why this function was never called' :)
[09:13] <pitti> hi sivang 
[09:13] <sivang> mornign Keybuk 
[09:14] <Keybuk> pitti: wouldn't it be great
[09:14] <Keybuk> it's probably vaguely possible if you turned on coverage actually
[09:14] <Keybuk> then it shows you the flow-path through your program
[09:15] <pitti> Keybuk: well, but it still sounds like 'explain_bug' :)
[09:15] <Keybuk> oh wow
[09:15] <Keybuk> modprobe ignores blacklist for aliases in config files
[09:15] <Keybuk> why the bollocks does it do that?
[09:43] <jordi> ogra: hrm, I don't have the ppc here
[09:48] <fabbione> W T H
[09:48] <fabbione> who did automatically replace my custom desktop background????
[09:49] <sivang> fabbione: I was just as shocked
[09:49] <Treenaks> fabbione: it's called "branding"
[09:49] <sivang> Treenaks: branding? :)
[09:49] <sivang> so that's how they call it these days...
[09:50] <fabbione> Treenaks: wrong.. that's NOT respecting user setting.. it's a bug...
[09:50] <Treenaks> sivang: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand
[09:51] <sivang> Treenaks: I thought we already has a brand name, no? :)
[09:51] <Treenaks> sivang: A name, sure.. but you need to SHOW it, and the logo, to build a brand!
[09:51] <sivang> Treenaks: hehe
[09:51] <pitti> fabbione: hm, I got a new splash screen, but my background stayed as it was
[09:52] <fabbione> pitti: my bg was replaced while upgrading to dapper as 10 minutes ago
[09:52] <sivang> pitti: I got a new splash screen and a new bg
[09:53] <Yagisan> G'day. Can anyone here reproduce Bug #38060 , it sure would be nice to print in dapper.
[09:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38060 in gs-esp "es-gsp crashes on various input causing a faliure to print" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38060
[09:53] <dholbach> the file was replaced, ubuntu-artwork-<release> is not done yet
[09:56] <towolf> salve, against which pkg should i file a bug about my internal modem and usb mouse being dead after resuming from sleep?
[09:57] <fabbione> towolf: linux-source-2.6.15 if you are running dapper
[09:57] <towolf> fabbione: wait, i'm seeing two bugs already about the dead mouse
[09:58] <towolf> fabbione: but i can revive the modem by restarting /e/i/sl-modem-daemon. should that be acpi-support instead?+
[09:58] <fabbione> towolf: mostlikely yes
[09:58] <pitti> towolf: oh, I get the dead mouse after hibernate as well
[09:59] <towolf> pitti: do you use evdev?
[09:59] <pitti> towolf: that module is loaded, yes
[10:00] <towolf> pitti: i think you have to voluntarily actiate it in xorg.conf: "driver" "evdev"
[10:00] <sivang> oh man, http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/06/04/11/1655257.shtml
[10:00] <pitti> ah, bug #34066
[10:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34066 in linux-source-2.6.15 "usb mouse dead on resume" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34066
[10:00] <Treenaks> Burn your pentiums!
[10:00] <pitti> towolf: that worked fine in breezy...
[10:00] <sivang> Treenaks: yeah , scary
[10:03] <Yagisan> sivang: that has been available since the i386. SMM is just the new name for the unreal mode bug that has been kept for compatibility reasons. 
[10:04] <sivang> Yagisan: what do you mean 'unreal mode' ?
[10:04] <Yagisan> sivang: you would already need ribg-0 access to "exploit" it anyway
[10:04] <Yagisan> sivang: real mode + 4GB segments
[10:04] <Yagisan> sivang: also called flat real mode
[10:04] <Treenaks> unreal mode is cool :)
[10:05] <Yagisan> s/ribg-0/ring-0
[10:05] <Mithrandir> hmm, would it be useful to have Mailman set Mail-Followup-To on sounder and ubuntu-devel if it wasn't set by the poster already?
[10:05] <sivang> Yagisan: ah
[10:06] <sivang> Yagisan: so only someone with root and access to ring-0 could xploit, doesn't seem so easy to exploit if you're on linux and has good password or disabled root :)
[10:06] <slomo> Keybuk: the unsyncable boo is caused by my last name? just make the "" a "oe" :)
[10:09] <Yagisan> sivang: you basically can't use it unless you already owned the system, and believe me, there are easier ways to own a system.
[10:21] <pitti> Riddell: piung
[10:21] <pitti> Riddell: and ping, too :)
[10:26] <Keybuk> slomo: unfortunately the error comes from the tool we use to do syncs
[10:30] <slomo> Keybuk: that's bad :( i need that sync for another upload :(
[10:35] <sivang> this is starting to get annoying
[10:47] <fabbione> mdz: please take a look at my last comment on #17446 when you have time.
[10:49] <mdz> fabbione: I don't see any comments from you on #17746; are you sure that is the right bug?
[10:54] <fabbione> 17446 sorry
[10:54] <fabbione> and you are not exactly supposed to be awake at this time either :)
[10:58] <seb128> fabbione: bug #17446
[10:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 17446 in mesa libgl1-mesa-dri "[dri/glide]  not ported to new swrast API" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/17446
[10:59] <seb128> fabbione: if you write it that way the bot is nice and people can be lazy and click on the URL :)
[10:59] <fabbione> seb128: you lazy french boy :P
[10:59] <seb128> ;)
[11:04] <pitti> fabbione: can you please take a quick look at bug 34208?
[11:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34208 in Baltix "offer to set higher screen resolutions if autodetection fails" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34208
[11:04] <pitti> fabbione: would it be possible to configure higher resolutions in xorg.conf (but still default to 1024x768) if autodetection failed?
[11:05] <pitti> fabbione: it's a small thing, but many users don't know how to fix resolutions other than with the gnome tool
[11:07] <fabbione> pitti: i will need to think about it. that means changing a default that is known to be sane
[11:08] <pitti> fabbione: no, I'm not talking about chaning 1024x768 as default fallback resolutionn
[11:08] <pitti> fabbione: just about adding more resolutions like 1280x1024 and 1600x1200 as *possible* resolutiosn
[11:08] <fabbione> pitti: that means changing the default to the debcon question
[11:08] <pitti> fabbione: so that you get higher resolutions offered in System -> Setttings -> Resolutions
[11:09] <fabbione> it also changes a bunch of other stuff too...
[11:09] <pitti> fabbione: so if autodetection fails, and the user knows that his monitor can do 1280 or 1600, he can manually set it
[11:09] <fabbione> pitti: i grasp the problem.. there are other issues in doing that
[11:09] <pitti> fabbione: that's why I ask you, I have no idea how intrusive that would be
[11:09] <fabbione> pitti: the change itself is a one line
[11:09] <fabbione> the problems are multiple with changing that default
[11:10] <pitti> so too dangerous for dapper?
[11:10] <fabbione> mostlikely
[11:10] <pitti> the common thing amongst the failures known to me is using a DVI cable
[11:10] <pitti> not sure whether autodetection is generally broken with DVI, or whether it's card specific
[11:10] <pitti> but anyway, it happens often enough
[11:15] <fabbione> pitti: it's a card issue usually, that doesn't know exactly how/what to check when we issue the ddcprobe
[11:34] <jmg> who is the ubuntu kernel maintainer?
[11:40] <jpatrick> jmg: BenC, I think
[11:40] <dholbach> kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com?
[11:40] <jmg> jpatrick: thanks
[11:50] <Diziet> seb128: Do you still need help with your epiphany dpkg problem ?
[11:50] <seb128> Diziet: no, that's fine, Keybuk replied to my questions, thank you for asking :)
[12:01] <jpatrick> what happened to libggzmod-dev in Dapper?
[12:03] <Tm_T> I could ask the same about libortp0
[12:03] <Tm_T> ;(
[12:09] <pitti> jpatrick: the package was simply removed
[12:09] <jpatrick> pitti: was there a reason?
[12:10] <jpatrick> I need it for a build-dep on another package
[12:10] <pitti> jpatrick: usually it's because it was removed from Debian; we do it, too, if the package isn't required by anything
[12:10] <Tm_T> I wonder how much it takes to get back libortp0 to ubuntu AND Debian
[12:10] <pitti> Tm_T: that's a different case; the current linphone lib has a new API
[12:10] <jpatrick> pitti: packages are in Alioth..
[12:10] <pitti> Tm_T: i. e. it's libortp2 now
[12:11] <Tm_T> pitti: yeah, and it doesn't work with jingle
[12:11] <Tm_T> pitti: it _must_ be libortp 0.71
[12:11] <pitti> Tm_T: can't find that package
[12:11] <Tm_T> pitti: exactly
[12:11] <Tm_T> pitti: it was in breezy
[12:11] <Tm_T> and awhile after it
[12:12] <jpatrick> pitti: could i upload a new package of it?
[12:12] <pitti> Tm_T: hm, if it relies on a very old version, then it's probably abandoned upstream?
[12:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39244 in edubuntu-meta edubuntu-desktop "PS2 KB extension problems on start up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39244
[12:12] <pitti> Tm_T: can't find it in breezy either
[12:12] <ogra> how the heck am i supposed to fix keyboard extension cable issues ? 
[12:12] <Tm_T> pitti: abandoned upstream? no way =)
[12:13] <pitti> ogra: by sheer willpower :)
[12:13] <ogra> hehe
[12:13] <Tm_T> pitti: http://code.google.com/apis/talk/about.html
[12:15] <Tm_T> pitti: problem is, without correct libortp, no wayto get jabber jingle voice chat compiled with Kopete
[12:15] <Tm_T> ;(
[12:16] <Tm_T> and next chance will be possibly next year
[12:16] <pitti> Tm_T: is it so hard to port to the current API?
[12:16] <Tm_T> pitti: afaik it is
[12:16] <Tm_T> pitti: well, google side is doing it
[12:17] <Tm_T> also some third party patches available
[12:17] <Tm_T> which doesn't do any good =)
[12:18] <Tm_T> pitti: if no other way, we prolly set up third party repository for these Kopete stuff
[12:18] <doko> Diziet: any news about the firefox/fonctconfig problem? if not, I would like to revert your fontconfig change
[12:18] <Tm_T> pitti: to (K)Ubuntu and Debian
[12:21] <freeflying> doko: hi
[12:28] <doko> freeflying: hi
[12:29] <freeflying> doko: have you got the patches I mail you for OOo
[12:29] <Diziet> doko: Go on, revert it.  I'm doing a new ff today and I won't get round to it until after Easter.
[12:36] <doko> Diziet: ok, I'm including the rationale in the changelog
[12:37] <doko> freeflying: what's your email?
[12:38] <freeflying> doko: zhengpeng.hou#gmail.com
[12:55] <kaled> any ubuntu-core-dev members present to check a simple request?
[01:05] <doko> freeflying: did you test these patches with a recent OOo build in dapper?
[01:06] <doko> freeflying: all the patches to freetype won't have any effect, we are using the system freetype.
[01:06] <freeflying> doko: haven't yet , dare not build it , last build cost me 14hrs  :)
[01:07] <doko> many patches just comment out code (#if 0), no comments, how does this interact with other languages?
[01:08] <freeflying> doko: the author have built it , has binary package ,but in rpm fromat 
[01:17] <doko> freeflying: I can't just make a build for chinese, the build has to support all languages. If you want to integrate these patches, please let me know.
[01:18] <freeflying> doko: I wanna have a test , but dare not build it , it's too time consume
[01:21] <doko> freeflying: just the first time, if you use ccache, then it should be done in 4-6 hours
[01:24] <Tm_T> ugh
[01:41] <dholbach> can somebody please NEW bakery2.4?
[01:42] <ogra> oooh, will we get cake from you today ? 
[01:42] <ogra> :)
[01:43] <dholbach> ogra if it goes through new, there'll be glom 1.0 :)
[01:43] <dholbach> dunno if that's good enough to count as a "cake" :)
[01:44] <ogra> to glom: steal/filch ? 
[01:44] <ogra> hmm
[01:45] <ogra> you bake it to steal it from us ? you evil man :)
[01:46] <ogra> (presumably secretly while giving a hug)
[02:02] <pitti> Riddell: any news from kdeprint? I'm currently preparing 1.2rc2 which works pretty well
[02:03] <Riddell> pitti: no the guy hasn't got back to me
[02:03] <pitti> ok :(
[02:03] <Riddell> I told him we needed a response by yesterday, so I guess he doesn't have time even with a bounty
[02:04] <pitti> ok, let's make that an agenda point in tomorrow's distro team meeting
[02:04] <Riddell> yeah
[02:08] <Kamion> dholbach: done
[02:08] <Kamion> dholbach: your diff is weird though, it regresses config.guess and config.sub to five-year-old versions
[02:09] <Kamion> -timestamp='2005-05-15'
[02:09] <Kamion> +timestamp='2001-07-12'
[02:09] <dholbach> hu... I wonder why that happens
[02:09] <dholbach> Kamion: I'll investigate - thanks.
[02:23] <sivang> see you later folks
[02:25] <fabbione> bug #39244
[02:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39244 in xserver-xorg-input-keyboard edubuntu-desktop "PS2 KB extension problems on start up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39244
[02:26] <fabbione> i don't think this can be X related at all
[02:26] <ogra> fabbione, i complained after getting up already
[02:26] <ogra> :)
[02:27] <fabbione> ogra: ?
[02:27] <ogra> * ogra shakes head about bug 39244
[02:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39244 in xserver-xorg-input-keyboard edubuntu-desktop "PS2 KB extension problems on start up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39244
 how the heck am i supposed to fix keyboard extension cable issues ? 
[02:27] <fabbione> oh
 ogra: by sheer willpower :)
[02:28] <ogra> we should add that as comment :)
[02:29] <fabbione> ogra: rejected..
[02:29] <ogra> :)
[02:34] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:56] <elmo> fridge, kubuntu and planet going down for 5 minutes
[02:56] <elmo> (err, sorry and edubuntu and theopencd)
[02:59] <highvoltage> elmo: the edubuntu site is just proto.edubuntu.org, www.edubuntu.org should be fine, for the record :)
[02:59] <highvoltage> (i think)
[03:02] <elmo> highvoltage: right
[03:03] <heno> Mithrandir: so I can see the access stuff in the seed list, but it's not on the live CD or its manifest list
[03:03] <heno> it's on the install CD list though under 'pool'
[03:03] <heno> not sure what 'pool' is, shipped seed?
[03:03] <TheMuso> heno: Are you referring to the latest daily CD image?
[03:04] <heno> TheMuso: yes
[03:04] <heno> I tested it today
[03:04] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 mins for the regular code update and hardware maintenance. Estimated downtime will be 40mins. Scream now if this is a major problem.
[03:04] <zul> heylo
[03:04] <heno> some of the settings work, but the packages are not installed
[03:04] <TheMuso> I don't usually get a sync of the latest dailies till early in the morning.
[03:08] <janimo> Mithrandir: hi, you were saying xubuntu live cds are being prepared today?
[03:10] <Kamion> heno: pool/ is everything, all packages on the CD
[03:10] <Kamion> installer+minimal+standard+desktop+ship
[03:10] <stub> Update: Launchpad going down in 20 mins. Estimated downtime still 40 mins.
[03:11] <Kamion> heno: Mithrandir added the accessibility packages to desktop, so my guess is that it just needs an ubuntu-meta upload to cause that to be pulled into the live CD
[03:11] <Kamion> I'll do that now
[03:12] <heno> Kamion: cool, thanks
[03:13] <heno> Kamion: I see that dasher has been added somewhere along the way. That's not something that we activate with one of the boot options though
[03:14] <heno> I don't mind seeing in desktop, but it's not a high priority, FYI
[03:14] <slomo__> Kamion: hi... as the sync script currently has a problem with non-ascii names like mine... am i allowed to upload a fakesync for one package? another package i want to upload is currently waiting on this and i want to clean my local upload queue ;)
[03:16] <Kamion> elmo: is the UTF-8 fix in the sync script likely to be a quick thing?
[03:16] <Kamion> heno: talk to Mithrandir, I guess, I'm just being random admin at this point
[03:16] <heno> Kamion: sure, np
[03:19] <elmo> Kamion: err, how do you mean?
[03:20] <Kamion> elmo: see down near the end of bug #39055
[03:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39055 in boo "UVF Exception: boo 0.7.0.1921 -> 0.7.5.2013" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39055
[03:20] <elmo> Kamion: this is a different problem than the one before
[03:21] <elmo> probably easy to fix, esp. since lp is currently mangling announces anyway
[03:22] <elmo> Kamion: btw, subscribing me to a bug doesn't really work, since LP sends me so much spam (I assume as a LP admin), that I'll invariably miss it :(
[03:25] <Kamion> ah
[03:25] <Kamion> I'd figured it was better than not subscribing you and expecting you to telepathically see it
[03:26] <_ion> http://ploum.frimouvy.org/?2006/04/06/103-may-19th-the-open-discussion-day-19-mai
[03:31] <bddebian> Heya folks
[03:32] <highvoltage> heya bddebian 
[03:33] <bddebian> Hello highvoltage
[03:34] <mdke_> Riddell, I've done a new version for kubuntu-docs in our dapper branch (version is 6.06-4) - i noticed that it was installing a lot of images which don't get used: the binary package should now be 250K instead of 11M. I've tested it, seems to work. Do you fancy testing/uploading later on?
[03:35] <Riddell> mdke_: yeah, sure
[03:36] <Riddell> those images were for the old quickguide I think, I was menaing to check if they were actually used in the desktopguide
[03:36] <mdke_> Riddell, great, thanks
[03:36] <mdke_> yeah, they don't afaics
[04:31] <Seveas>    * Removed espresso from live-i386, live-amd64, live-powerpc, live-
[04:31] <Seveas>      ia64, live-sparc, live-hppa
[04:31] <Seveas> que?
[04:31] <Seveas> Espresso being abandoned? ;)
[04:31] <janimo> Seveas: it;s pulled in by espresso-gtk
[04:32] <janimo> no longer explicitely seeded that's all
[04:32] <janimo> or espresso-qt
[04:50] <CarlFK> Kamion: I still have that box with the 2 hda5 in fstab - any interest in the current state, or should I try todays dapper?
[04:52] <Kamion> CarlFK: sorry, I need more context
[04:53] <CarlFK> Kamion: about a week ago I filed a bug... looking it up
[04:54] <CarlFK> dapper install resulted in 2 hda5 lines, box wouldn't boot - asks for root pw...
[04:55] <CarlFK> hmm, maybe it only made it to the mail list...  I don;t see a launchpad entry
[04:55] <CarlFK> looking at mail....
[04:56] <jsgotangco> whoa LP bling
[04:56] <CarlFK> (2:44:37 AM) Kamion: CarlFK: well according to your partman log the installer  /dev/hda5 is swap, so perhaps something is very confused, I don't know
[04:57] <CarlFK> thats about as far as it went
[04:57] <CarlFK> then I went away for a week
[04:57] <Kamion> sorry, I honestly can't remember and I don't have the IRC log handy - what day was that?
[04:58] <CarlFK> I posted to the dev mail list on 4/4, so it was probably the 4/3
[04:58] <CarlFK> but nothing was ever figured out.
[04:59] <CarlFK> http://dev.personnelware.com/carl/temp/Apr03/d/etc/fstab
[04:59] <Diziet> I'd like an opinion about wording for a message.
[05:00] <Kamion> I don't even have the time to investigate all the bugs people file let alone starting on random posts to mailing lists, I'm afraid :)
[05:00] <Kamion> The requested URL /carl/temp/Apr03/d/etc/fstab was not found on this server.
[05:00] <CarlFK> dam
[05:00] <Diziet> If you look in ff's Tools / Extensions you see the langpack you have installed.
[05:00] <CarlFK> while I was away I screwed up my dns
[05:00] <Diziet> It currently says `Update not supported (install location is read only)'.
[05:00] <Diziet> I want to change this to something clearer, but of course I don't want to make it too long.
[05:00] <Diziet> `Handled by Ubuntu system update (install location is read only)' ?
[05:01] <CarlFK> http://67.163.39.124/carl/temp/Apr03/d/etc/fstab
[05:01] <Kamion> "Handled by system package manager" perhaps
[05:01] <Diziet> That's quite good.
[05:01] <Diziet> I still need to have `(install location is read only)' to avoid it incomprehensible lies if you've done something strange.
[05:02] <Diziet> At least with that phrase the lies will be comprehensible.
[05:02] <CarlFK> Kamion: i would have put it in lp, but had to  pack my suitcase ;)
[05:02] <Kamion> (...)> agreed, just couldn't be bothered retyping it
[05:05] <Kamion> CarlFK: I can't find the reference anywhere in the IRC logs on http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/, so perhaps it was in an unlogged channel or in a /msg
[05:07] <CarlFK> Kamion: it was in #u-bug 
[05:07] <Kamion> anyway, yeah, give me a few minutes to dig through the debug
[05:07] <CarlFK> will do
[05:08] <Diziet> Kamion: Thanks.
[05:08] <Kamion> you're welcome
[05:10] <CarlFK> Kamion: if you want to see 'everything' (not much) from last week -  ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com,  Apr 04, Subject: hda5 mounted - e2fsck: aborting"
[05:10] <Kamion> oh, wow, that's a really cool bug
[05:10] <CarlFK> heh
[05:11] <CarlFK> can I quote you?  I think that is the only time I have heard a bug called that ;)
[05:12] <Kamion> sure :)
[05:13] <Kamion> I think I know roughly what's up, just trying to track down the exact offender
[05:13] <pitti> Riddell: yay, I just talked with a friend of mine, he'll look into the kdeprinter cups issue
[05:13] <Riddell> pitti: oh?
[05:13] <Riddell> who:s that?
[05:14] <pitti> Riddell: you don't know him probably, Michael Hofmann
[05:14] <pitti> Riddell: (mh21 in launchpad)
[05:14] <Kamion> CarlFK: what's happening is, /dev/hda5 was originally ext3, and the installer automatically marked it to be mounted on /media/hda5
[05:14] <Riddell> pitti: does he know much about kde and/or cups?
[05:14] <pitti> Riddell: I told him about our troubles, and since he has some free hours anyway, he wanted to give it a shot
[05:14] <Kamion> CarlFK: then you told partman to make it a swap partition instead
[05:14] <pitti> Riddell: actually not, but he's very good at hacking in general (he learned to fix gnome bugs in no time and such)
[05:15] <CarlFK> Kamion: that sounds reasonable. 
[05:15] <Kamion> CarlFK: but partman forgot to clear its notion of the current filesystem for /dev/hda5 (acting_filesystem), which is what the fstab.d generator scripts look at
[05:15] <pitti> Riddell: I don't expect him to rewrite kdeprint in a clean way :), just change the internal API hacks to some different hacks to match the 1.2 API
[05:15] <Kamion> CarlFK: so partman thought it was both swap *and* mounted on /media/hda5
[05:16] <Kamion> fix should be pretty straightforward if I'm reading this right
[05:16] <Riddell> pitti: worth a shot, point him my way if he has any questions
[05:16] <pitti> Riddell: will, yes
[05:16] <pitti> Riddell: *crossing fingers* :)
[05:16] <CarlFK> Kamion: good chance i got the "you have not assigned a swap part, are you sure?" message 
[05:17] <CarlFK> Kamion: or I was thinking of that message and assigned swap just so I wouldn't get bothered by the message
[05:17] <Kamion> CarlFK: not according to the syslog, which should have shown partman-basicfilesystems/no_swap being asked if that were the case
[05:17] <Riddell> pitti: apparantly Cristian of kdeprint does not have a machine to install kubuntu on so would need an NX machine or something
[05:21] <CarlFK> Riddell: I have installed a full os on this free thing: http://www.vmwarez.com/2006/02/livecd-player-virtual-machine.html
[05:22] <CarlFK> Riddell: I have not done any GUI stuff, so I can't say what the performance would be like, but I hear it is "fine' and it should be more than enough for testing things
[05:26] <Kamion> (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/vmware/Ubuntu-5.10.zip)
[05:28] <HiddenWolf> Now they just need to package player nicely. :)
[05:29] <CarlFK> can the player be put in Universe?
[05:30] <Kamion> universe is for free software only; *maybe* multiverse, but that would require a redistribution licence from vmware
[05:30] <Kamion> I think some discussions have been taking place, although I'm not certain
[05:49] <wasabi> Lets not distribute VMware.
[05:50] <wasabi> Lets solve it properly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyApt
[05:50] <wasabi> This has been a public service announcement.
[05:51] <Kamion> WOO working espresso on powerpc
[05:51] <Kamion> (about time, say you all)
[05:52] <Kamion> pitti: still may not work for *you*, given you've been tickling different bugs ...
[05:52] <Kamion> but at least now I know that the bootloader installation works
[05:52] <pitti> Kamion: right; I'm fairly sure I selected correct partitions, but I have to try that again with the screenshot
[05:54] <seb128> pitti: what happened to cups which made it working correctly again when it was all broken some days ago? :)
[05:54] <seb128> pitti: I mean upstream, not the Ubuntu package
[05:54] <pitti> seb128: rc1 -> rc2 apparently fixed a shitload of butgs :)
[05:54] <seb128> so you and upstream are friends again? :)
[05:54] <pitti> seb128: I didn't ask mdz for UVF approval yet, I want to give out a test package before
[05:54] <seb128> right
[05:55] <pitti> seb128: let's say I don't hate him any more :)
[05:55] <seb128> but previous week you mentionned they are doing such a bad job that we want better revert
[05:55] <seb128> so that's weird it changed that much since
[05:55] <pitti> seb128: but it works really well now, and with rc2 we are back on track for getting upstream support again for bugs
[05:55] <pitti> seb128: yes, I was impressed, too
[05:55] <pitti> seb128: now reverting or upgrading depends on kdeprint
[05:56] <Kamion> apart from the way it doesn't boot (although the bootloader itself is working, because it can boot another of my filesystems
[05:56] <Kamion> )
[05:56] <Kamion> I wonder why that is
[06:11] <mdz> Kamion: what is the workaround for bug 36022?
[06:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36022 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "change-override can't handle pockets" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36022
[06:14] <Kamion> mdz: "get Kinnison to prod the db by hand"
[06:15] <Kamion> mdz: we only have one case where we've needed this so far, and making change-override.py work is apparently a lot harder than expected. Kinnison's already done the db tweak for us for python-vte
[06:16] <mdz> Kamion: ok, so it just needs to be uploaded? is mvo doing that?
[06:17] <Kamion> mdz: python-vte doesn't need an upload either, it's done
[06:17] <ogra> ugh, i just thought my firefox is badly broken, but its the new LP ui
[06:17] <Diziet> E [12/Apr/2006:16:07:43 +0000]  [cups-driverd]  Unable to open driver directory "/usr/lib/cups/driver": No such file or directory
[06:17] <Kamion> mdz: oh, you mean the upgradeer
[06:17] <Kamion> ?
[06:17] <Diziet> Is this known to be broken ?
[06:18] <mdz> Kamion: my understanding is that the upgrader needs a newer vte
[06:18] <mdz> oh, I see, it has been updated relative to breezy
[06:18] <Kamion> yeah
[06:18] <mdz> I expected a ~breezy version
[06:18] <Kamion> python-vte | 1:0.11.15-0ubuntu2 | breezy/universe | amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[06:18] <Kamion> python-vte | 1:0.11.15-0ubuntu3 | breezy-updates | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[06:18] <mvo> mdz: I uploaded the backported update-manager a couple of minutes ago
[06:19] <Kamion> hmm, I guess this will all have landed in unapproved
[06:19] <mvo> yes
[06:19] <mdz> mvo: you checked that there had not already been a -0ubuntu3 version?
[06:19] <Kamion> I'll do some queue processing
[06:19] <Kamion> mdz: I double-check that when processing unapproved anyway
[06:20] <mvo> mdz: for libgksu1.2-0? I thought I did, let me check again
[06:20] <Kamion> oh, apparently I didn't double-check enough in this case
[06:20] <Kamion>  vte (1:0.11.15-0ubuntu3) dapper; urgency=low
[06:20] <Kamion> it's been superseded since though, so I guess we live with the small confusion now
[06:23] <mvo> mdz: does it confuse the archive tools if there had been a identical version in the archive in the past? 
[06:25] <mvo> mdz: for vte, I didn't backported the complete thing, just the two (small) patches that are required for the upgrade tool
[06:27] <Kamion> mvo: no
[06:27] <Kamion> in fact the archive currently fails to reject even if the version is in another distrorelease in the archive RIGHT NOW
[06:27] <Kamion> (I have a bug open about that!)
[06:28] <mvo> so this is about the convention for uploads to -updates? Is this documented? I was only able to find the policies for security updates
[06:29] <Kamion> it's not particularly documented for -updates in particular - I thought it was fairly obvious that versions should be unique though
[06:29] <Chipzz> mvo: ping ;)
[06:29] <Kamion> conventions are haphazard, personally I prefer versions of the form -0ubuntu2.1 if the versions in hoary, breezy, dapper are distinct
[06:30] <Kamion> IMHO you only need to put breezy or 5.10 or whatever in the version number when hoary/breezy/dapper updates would otherwise clash, and it's best to keep version numbering simple where we can
[06:31] <Kamion> hmm, I think I sort of agree with mdz in the case of update-manager though - when doing a full backport, ~backport1 isn't the most helpful version number suffix
[06:31] <mvo> I'm not disputing that they should be distinct :) I was just wondering if we had something "writen down" already
[06:31] <Kamion> not AFAIK, sorry
[06:33] <mvo> Kamion: I think I start something (initially very short, based on this conversation). Does "ImportantUpdateProcedures" sound reasonable? (we have SecurityUpdatesProcedures" already
[06:33] <mdz> mvo: I don't think it does, but it certainly confuses me :-)
[06:34] <mdz> mvo: documentation is an excellent idea
[06:34] <mvo> mdz: yeah, sorry for this, I start a wiki page about this now
[06:36] <wasabi> So when's dapper out the door? :)
[06:37] <mdz> wasabi: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[06:37] <doko> pitti, jbailey: got new OOo translations: as-IN, ml-IN, or-IN, ur-IN, mr-IN. which of these can we support?
[06:37] <mdz> fabbione: how are you feeling about the state of X for beta?
[06:38] <fabbione> mdz: it's getting better a bit at a time
[06:38] <fabbione> clearly man power to help would help
[06:38] <fabbione> because we also need to find the fixes for the bugs people are triaging
[06:39] <Chipzz> mvo: so, are there any outstanding issues after my last patches?
[06:40] <janimo> mvo, hi. is there a list with the preferred order of inclusion of languages on the CD?
[06:41] <janimo> there;s plenty of space on the xubuntu cd so I'd like to put as many langpacks as possible
[06:41] <pitti> doko: why shouldn't we be able to support some of then?
[06:41] <pitti> doko: s/then/them/
[06:41] <janimo> and associated support packages
[06:42] <Kamion> mvo: this is an odd backport of update-manager, it seems to be totally different from the package with a similar version in dapper
[06:44] <Kamion> mvo: I think we've now established a meaning for "backport" which is "the same source built on an older release", so having radically different source called "backport" is rather confusing
[06:44] <LaserJock> Kamion or mdz, would it be ok to file bugs to get some new packages synced from debian (not in Ubuntu) or removed from Ubuntu and assign them to ubuntu-archive?
[06:44] <Kamion> LaserJock: yes
[06:44] <doko> pitti: ok. btw, should I just copy the locale generation chunks from the -base packages into the ooo-l10n packages?
[06:44] <Kamion> LaserJock: but don't assign them to ubuntu-archive, just subscribe ubuntu-archive, please
[06:45] <LaserJock> Kamion: gotcha, will do
[06:45] <pitti> doko: you can if you want, but I thouhght they should be generated in l-support-*?
[06:45] <HiddenWolf> where did the pony on the fridge go?
[06:48] <ogra> you cant have it !
[06:48] <doko> pitti: but they are not? just getting complaints from users.
[06:48] <pitti> doko: yes, it's still on my list
[06:49] <pitti> doko: if it's urgent, I'll do it tomorrow
[06:49] <doko> pitti: please not before cups is fixed ;-)
[06:49] <pitti> AARGH
[06:50] <pitti> doko: I have an idea about all these new bugs: I forgot to put 54_cups-config_modeldir.dpatch  in to 00list :/
[06:50] <pitti> doko: that should only affect very few printers, though
[06:51] <doko> but does this explain the "garbage" strings?
[06:51] <pitti> not really
[06:51] <pitti> doko: do you get them, too?
[06:51] <doko> yes
[06:52] <pitti> hm, it worked well for me, I have to reinstall a clean dapper and debug this
[06:52] <doko> the patch is not really needed, I modified gutenprint to work without it
[06:52] <pitti> yes, and the symlinks are still in place anyway
[06:53] <pitti> doko: it only affects the ppds shipped by cups
[06:56] <doko> with bug 39272, no printer is actually used
[06:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39272 in cupsys "server-error-internal-error while adding printer with gui" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39272
[07:01] <Diziet> 39727 seems quite like my just-reported bug 39319
[07:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39319 in cupsys "Cannot add new printer" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39319
[07:01] <_mvo_> Kamion: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImportantUpdateProcedures, remarks welcome
[07:04] <pitti> doko: btw, please feel free to look into that cups thing; we should fix it for the beta
[07:13] <HiddenWolf> _mvo_: no page there. :)
[07:13] <HiddenWolf> oh, wait, comma
[07:30] <doko> Kamion, mdz, infinity, elmo: please could somebody make the following cupsys package versions available: 1.1.99.b1.r4929-0ubuntu6 1.1.99.b1.r4929-0ubuntu5
[07:31] <pitti> doko: btw, I'm just importing our cupsys changes into a branch of Debian's package, so that'll be easier in the future
[07:31] <pitti> doko: (svn branch, that is)
[07:33] <Kamion> doko: I have no idea how to extract those from launchpad
[07:33] <Kamion> I imagine they're still in the librarian somewhere
[07:33] <Kamion> try #launchpad
[07:41] <Burgwork> mdz, is there anything that needs to be done to move that flash intro stuff forward?
[07:42] <Kamion> Is anyone on the art team here? I sent a message to ubuntu-art@ about getting an icon for espresso, but it's stuck in the moderation queue
[07:43] <mdke> Kamion, looks like silbs is the admin of the list, not sure if there are more moderators
[07:43] <mdz> Burgwork: it's doomed
[07:43] <mdz> the software stack just isn't there
[07:44] <mdz> we'll do it for another release
[07:44] <bddebian> So if survex-aven depends survex (=1.0.39) and I make 1.0.39ubuntu1.  Do I really need to make the depends 1.0.39ubuntu1?
[07:44] <Burgwork> mdz, ah, ok. Dapper+1 it is
[07:45] <Kamion> mdke: silbs is on holiday
[07:46] <bddebian> Or is it more correct to do (>=1.0.39) (<<1.0.40)?
[07:46] <mdke> Kamion, oh right. maybe henrik or dholbach will know, they are quite active in that team
[07:46] <Kamion> mdz: I just read through the ue-gnome-ui spec; there's very little left of the mandatory stuff before I can call it implemented, as far as I can see
[07:47] <Kamion> mdz: I think only the icon is left
[07:47] <Kamion> mdz: would you mind glancing through it and see if you agree with that assessment, or if there's something glaring you still think is missing?
[07:48] <dholbach> Kamion: I can't approve the mail, but I could send it for you, if you click on the "remove my mail from the queue" thingie? (sorry, that's all I could do)
[07:49] <elmo> I can approve it, don't bother
[07:49] <dholbach> oh ok
[07:49] <Kamion> bddebian: there's a Makefile in survex/debian/ which appears to be supposed to generate the control file with an updated version (and other things)
[07:50] <Kamion> weird package, (= ${Source-Version}) is the normal way to do that
[07:50] <Kamion> elmo: thanks
[07:51] <bddebian> Kamion: So should I "fix" it or what do I do?
[07:52] <Kamion> bddebian: I think you update the changelog and run 'make' in the debian/ directory
[07:52] <Kamion> bddebian: but that's just a wild guess
[07:52] <bddebian> Gah
[07:52] <Kamion> in fact no
[07:52] <mdke> dholbach, any luck on -docs?
[07:53] <dholbach> mdke: LaserJock wants me to wait a bit
[07:53] <mdke> argh
[07:53] <dholbach> mdke: i didn't attempt to do it yet
[07:53] <mdke> LaserJock, how long?
[07:53] <bddebian> Kamion: ?
[07:53] <Kamion> bddebian: update the changelog, do a build (enough to make it run ./configure), 'make -C debian control', and clean
[07:53] <dholbach> mdke: do you have to have the upload done in a bit?
[07:53] <Kamion> bddebian: I think
[07:53] <LaserJock> mdke: just a minute
[07:54] <Kamion> bddebian: if that doesn't work, you'll have to work it out for yourself :)
[07:54] <bddebian> Kamion: You aren't instilling me with a lot of confidence :-)
[07:54] <mdke> dholbach, today if possible, there are some new translations which i want to get to rosetta. But I'm happy to wait on LaserJock for a bit
[07:54] <Kamion> bddebian: I'm not trying to ;)
[07:54] <dholbach> ok, i'll do it today - say in an hour or something
[07:54] <dholbach> mdke: are you happy with that?
[07:54] <mdke> LaserJock, an hour enough?
[07:55] <LaserJock> mdke: I was thinking 15 min. ;-)
[07:55] <dholbach> ok, an hour
[07:55] <dholbach> see you then :)
[07:55] <dholbach> *wave*
[07:55] <mdke> dholbach, thanks a lot
[07:55] <dholbach> de rien
[08:08] <mdz> Kamion: I will have a look, but I really need to do an install with recent espresso to confirn
[08:09] <mdz> Kamion: do the current dailies have the latest bits?
[08:09] <Tonio_> hello everyone
[08:10] <Tonio_> just wanted to know if it was still possible to upload NEW packages after tomorrow's freeze ?
[08:10] <bddebian> Heya again Tonio_ :)
[08:10] <Tonio_> hey bddebian :)
[08:10] <Tonio_> or may I upload that wengophone toonight after getting it reviewed very quickly :)
[08:10] <Tonio_> bddebian: any reponse on that point ?
[08:12] <bddebian> Tonio_: I don't know, sorry :-(
[08:13] <Tonio_> bddebian: no pb ;)
[08:17] <Kamion> mdz: current daily has everything but the changes in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-April/009253.html
[08:36] <robertj> is there a procedure for submitting new quotes for the wiki?
[08:36] <robertj> It's kinda lame having a quote from sabdafl up there
[08:42] <Treenaks> sabdafl? sabdfl and daf in one?
[08:42] <Treenaks> robertj: quotes on the wiki?
[08:42] <Treenaks> where?
[08:42] <robertj> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges
[08:44] <LaserJock> robertj: not seeing it
[08:44] <mdke> robertj, just add them to the page
[08:44] <mdke> LaserJock, at the top
[08:44] <mdke> robertj, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FortuneCookies
[08:44] <robertj> ahh
[08:45] <dieman> hah
[08:45] <dieman> awesome
[08:45] <mdke> you can have them appear anywhere, pretty cool
[08:46] <LaserJock> neato
[08:47] <Lure> doko: my firefox fonts look strange after last fontconfig update (under Kubuntu)
[08:50] <doko> Lure: then change the config as described in the fontconfig upload
[08:52] <Lure> doko: will try - should we change firefox package to do proper config out-of-box?
[08:52] <mdke> mjg59, ping?
[08:54] <doko> Lure: sure, send a patch, or find a way, that firefox itself does the fonst substitution (i.e. Times -> DejaVuSerif, Helvetica -> DejaVuSans)
[08:57] <mdke> JaneW, around?
[09:07] <dholbach> LaserJock, mdke: ready to go?
[09:07] <LaserJock> I am, mdke?
[09:08] <mdke> dholbach, you bet
[09:08] <dholbach> rock on... which url was that?
[09:08] <mdke> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/dapper
[09:10] <elmo> Kamion: dude?
[09:11] <dholbach> mdke: looks like it went *REALLY* quick :)
[09:11] <mdke> dholbach, the all-new slim ubuntu-docs :)
[09:11] <dholbach> "to make dholbach happy" :)
[09:12] <dholbach> mdke: i don't have to strip directories from it, do i?
[09:13] <mdke> dholbach, yeah, you can do.
[09:13] <mdke> dholbach, it'll get rid of the kubuntu stuff
[09:13] <dholbach> ok
[09:13] <dholbach> thanks
[09:14] <wftl> Kamion: If you are around (or somebody else wants to pipe up), will the Espresso installer be on the Kubuntu desktop live CD as well?
[09:15] <dholbach> wftl: something comparable
[09:15] <wftl> dholbach: Thanks. Good to know you will be able to install from both live CDs.
[09:16] <dholbach> mdke: WOW!!!
[09:17] <mdke> :)
[09:17] <dholbach> mdke: i mean .... WOW!!!
[09:17] <dholbach> mdke: 15MB -> 741K!
[09:17] <mdke> we cleaned up
[09:17] <dholbach> mdke: i'm happy to do MINUTELY uploads now :-p
[09:18] <mdke> heh
[09:18] <dholbach> just kidding, but it'll make things easier and quicker :)
[09:18] <mdke> that's nothing compared to kubuntu-docs: the _binary_ went from 11MB to 250K
[09:18] <dholbach> NICE
[09:18] <dholbach> uploaded
[09:18] <mdke> thanks a lot
[09:19] <LaserJock> waaay cool
[09:19] <dholbach> my pleasure :)
[09:22] <lemsx1> anybody knows about segfault in ping ?
[09:23] <lemsx1> only when pinging addresses that will be resolved by winbind
[09:25] <lemsx1> $> cat /etc/nsswitch.conf | grep hosts
[09:25] <lemsx1> hosts:          files dns wins mdns
[09:25] <mdke> lemsx1, you could try the bug tracker?
[09:26] <lemsx1> there are 2 wins server's defined in /etc/samba/smb.conf
[09:26] <lemsx1> mdke: i know that was an issue before. i have many dapper boxes running side by side. only one is having these problems
[09:26] <mdke> lemsx1, if one box isn't working, it's still a bug
[09:26] <mdke> maybe someone else has had your issue, and reported it
[09:27] <lemsx1> ouch, the other box did the same now
[09:28] <Burgwork> fabbione, neuralis either of you around?
[09:31] <dholbach> night guys
[09:31] <mdke> night dholbach 
[09:32] <dholbach> night mdke
[09:34] <wftl> Is there an Ubuntu channel for artwork development?
[09:35] <mdke> wftl, #ubuntu-artwork, or similar
[09:35] <dholbach> or #ubuntu-art or #dapper-look
[09:36] <lemsx1> mdke: i've already reported this bug 32614
[09:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32614 in samba winbind "segfault when not joined to the domain" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32614
[09:36] <lamont> seb128: re metacity bug (upstream) 152004) - please don't let strict be anything other than what we have it as in ubuntu.  If it must change because upstream thinks it's the right thing to do, please give me 'really-strict-dammit' or some such.  kthxbye
[09:36] <lemsx1> mdke: but i don't remember what i did to fix it... though ping is segfaulting on both boxes, the one that has winbind running and the one that does not. wbinfo works on the box that has winbind running
[09:37] <lemsx1> messy
[09:37] <seb128> lamont: <seb128> elijah: so to make it clear. I think "old behaviour" by default, with a "strict" option trying to be smart and a "never" option for people who prefers that to bugs would be really nice
 I'll probably avoid the 'never' option right now.  But, I did ask Ron to make the 'focus_new_windows' key a string, so that adding things like 'never' (or maybe even 'always') could be done easily
 I'll probably patch the Ubuntu package for the "never" mode though, so I don't have to have "old school" coworker complaining about GNOME window manager daily
[09:38] <seb128> lamont: that was discussion with upstream :p
[09:41] <lamont> seb128: thanks
[09:41] <seb128> np ;)
[09:41] <lamont> remind me that I owe you $BEVERAGE next time, eh?
[09:44] <seb128> cool, yeah will do, don't worry ;)
[09:51] <Kamion> elmo: yes?
[09:51] <bddebian> Ugh, cernlib's rules file is ugly
[10:16] <_ion> http://thedailywtf.com/forums/68115/ShowPost.aspx
[10:31] <mdke> mjg59, JaneW, unping
[11:11] <Chipzz> bug 36988
[11:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36988 in glibc "Posix first_weekday is 7" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36988
[11:24] <lemsx1> mdke: i couldn't fix the problem... dunno what it is
[11:24] <lemsx1> mdke: it has to do with uid mappings in the smb.conf file and perhaps the samba passwd db being empty
[11:29] <mdke> infinity, gah, postfix doesn't depend on libsasl2 or libsasl2-modules, you naughty man
[11:36] <trappist> mdke: shouldn't those be recommends?
[11:36] <mdke> trappist, yeah, I removed them from the server guide in the meantime
[11:48] <lamont> mdke: that's right.  you don't have to have libsasl2 installed in order to use postfix.
[11:48] <lamont> it does suggest it though
[11:48] <mdke_> lamont, sure, I'm not criticising the policy
[11:49] <lamont> and they should be suggests, not recommends
[11:49] <trappist> I guess I don't know the difference
[11:49] <mdke_> sure. I was just gently ribbing infinity about something else
[11:50] <trappist> they're none of the above on debian, unless stuff like postfix-ldap requires them
[11:52] <trappist> postfix does show up in apt-cache rdepends libsasl2.  I give up.
[11:52] <lamont> trappist: uh....
[11:53] <lamont> postfix in dapper is exactly the same source as debian...
[11:53] <wasabi> any average time for NEW lately?
[11:53] <desrt> from UNCONFIRMED?
[11:54] <trappist> and apt-get remove libsasl2 does take postfix with it
[11:54] <Kamion> wasabi: day or two
[11:54] <trappist> lamont: oh, I was looking on sarge, sorry
[11:54] <wasabi> k
[11:54] <desrt> woh /me is in the wrong place
[11:54] <Kamion> though Easter will probably reduce response time
[11:55] <lamont> trappist: sarge... I seem to remember a debian release with that name....  but it's kinda old, no? :)
[11:56] <trappist> lamont: in debian years it's just an infant :)
[11:58] <trappist> mdke: iow, postfix does seem to depend indirectly on libsasl2 and libsasl2-modules
[11:58] <trappist> which (correct me if I'm wrong) means they shouldn't be suggests
[11:59] <mdke_> trappist, I dunno, I'm just thinking about the guide. Installing one doesn't install the other, that's enough to tell me that the guide is wrong
[12:00] <trappist> do you already have the libsasl2 stuff installed, then? dozens and dozens of packages seem to depend on it
[12:00] <Kamion> any Thai folks here?
[12:00] <lamont> trappist: how does postfix normal operation fail to work without them?
[12:01] <Kamion> I'd like to know which of the seven available tis-* consolefonts would make a good default
[12:01] <trappist> lamont: it doesn't.  I'm looking at apt-cache rdepends
[12:01] <Kamion> tis-phaisarn is the closest in look to our normal console font (glyphs in ASCII look identical)
[12:02] <Kamion> so that would probably make it preferred in my book - but I don't know how readable it is to Thai speakers