[12:13] <Hirvinen> aaa
[12:13] <Hirvinen> Whoops.
[03:00] <azeem> @schedule MST
[03:00] <Ubugtu> Schedule for MST: 12 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 07:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu
[03:03] <bur[n] er> :)
[01:01] <flint> good morning campers... we have sun but no coffee on this morning in Vermont
[01:05] <ogra> @schedule
[01:05] <Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
[01:05] <ogra> @schedule CET
[01:05] <Ubugtu> Schedule for CET: 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu
[01:06] <flint> ogra, Oliver i am early, I am going to make coffee or nap for another bit.
[01:06] <ogra> :)
[01:06] <flint> @schedule
[01:06] <Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
[01:06] <ogra> you need to give it your timezone as argument
[01:06] <flint> @schedule EST
[01:07] <ogra> @schedule EST
[01:07] <Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 12 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 09:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu
[01:07] <Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 12 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 09:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu
[01:07] <ogra> :)
[01:07] <ogra> wow, its early at your place :)
[01:07] <flint> oh yea...
[01:07] <JaneW> flint: I was early too
[01:07] <JaneW> there must be something in the air
[01:07] <JaneW> ogra is the only one fully awake today
[01:08] <flint> JaneW, mornin' darling, it ain't the smell of coffee... the child is healthy?
[01:09] <JaneW> flint: hopefully getting there
[01:09] <JaneW> although I had a serious relapse yesterday
[01:09] <JaneW> the day had started so promisingly...
[01:09] <flint> you all know that I had to get a job... this is taking up an inordinant amount of my spare time... worse than an afliction imho...
[01:10] <flint> JaneW, sorry to hear about the back...
[01:10] <JaneW> flint: does that mean you got a job?
[01:11] <flint> JaneW, my wife does pelates to combat back pain.
[01:11] <JaneW> flint: I fear this is a sign of my increasing age taking it's toll
[01:11] <JaneW> flint: I do yoga
[01:12] <flint> JaneW, I work for a php firm called code4design  took them to LinuxWorld and I am in the process of getting them loaded on IBM zSeries Mainframes...
[01:12] <JaneW> flint: interesting
[01:12] <JaneW> flint: from Vermont?
[01:12] <flint> JaneW, work from my little house in Vermont.  I needed the money...
[01:13] <flint> :^)
[01:13] <flint> JaneW, if i hadn't pissed off the other Jane, I might have been involved with the Montreal mafia, this is a user support job just the same...
[01:14] <JaneW> flint:  yes I imagine she is no longer in your fan club!
[01:15] <flint> JaneW, Not like i was shy and did not try... :^)
[01:15] <ogra> what did you do to her ? 
[01:15] <flint> JaneW, it is probably better this way.
[01:15] <JaneW> flint: hey you spoke your mind...
[01:15] <flint> ogra, Ollie when I keep you out of the line of fire, just enjoy your foxhole :^)
[01:15] <JaneW> you may have been smoking crack at the time...
[01:16] <JaneW> but still
[01:16] <flint> JaneW, scratch the surface of me and find an idealist.
[01:16] <JaneW> I need some excitement
[01:16] <flint> lol
[01:17] <flint> JaneW, I do what i can to entertain...
[01:17] <flint> b back soon...
[01:29] <Seveas> JaneW, admit it, you just want to train your whip on innocent Ubuntu users 
[01:30] <JaneW> Seveas: damn you foiled my thinly veiled plot!
[01:31] <Seveas> JaneW, look at the banlist in #ubuntu, there are some willing test subjects 
[01:31] <JaneW> Seveas: ooh
[01:33] <ajmitch> Seveas: we've always known that
[01:33] <ajmitch> JaneW has been perfectly willing to wield that whip
[01:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:40] <ogra> ajmitch, only if there are willing victims offering themselves :)
[01:42] <ajmitch> like the whole dev team :)
[01:42] <ogra> :)
[01:43] <Hobbsee> i must say, that ubuntu banlist is pretty impressive...
[01:43] <flint> Hobbsee, how does one read the banlist maybe /banlist?
[01:44] <Hobbsee> flint: /mode #ubuntu b
[01:44] <flint> Hobbsee, thanks... wilco
[01:46] <Hobbsee> #kubuntu list is also rather impressive...
[01:57] <JaneW> ajmitch: hey it's not my fault thay are all S&M fetishists
[01:57] <JaneW> but it helps...
[01:58] <ogra> we just didnt know before we met you  ;)
[02:01] <flint> JaneW, we love being obedient to Mistress Jane, and appreciate the punishment...
[02:01] <flint> ...That said let us begin our deliberations... :^)
[02:02] <JaneW> ok who is here?
[02:02] <JaneW> Hobbsee: you are welcome to participate, if you haqve an interest in Edubuntu
[02:02] <JaneW> -q
[02:03] <ogra> absolutely !
[02:03] <JaneW> anyone else here for the edubuntu meeting?
[02:03] <flint> indubidably...(sp?)
[02:03] <JaneW> seems to be the usual guilty suspects
[02:03] <ogra> do we wait 5 mins or do we start ? 
[02:03] <JaneW> hi juliux 
[02:03] <juliux> hi JaneW 
[02:03] <JaneW> I think we should wait 2 mins
[02:03] <ogra> ok
[02:03] <Hobbsee> you cant use the standard "if hobbsee is here, then everyone is, because hobbsee's always the latest" here though...
[02:04] <Hobbsee>  /offtopic
[02:04] <JaneW> ogra: since your 2 min updates are usually the meat that the meeting chews on for most of the rest of the time...
[02:04] <ogra> heh
[02:04] <ogra> i have not much this week ...
[02:04] <flint> JaneW, in elkners defense, the little whiner is likely teaching class, probably on a flight 6 system...
[02:04] <JaneW> highvoltage, you here?
[02:04] <ogra> flint, crazy guy
[02:04] <JaneW> flint: great, so he is actively testing
[02:04] <Hobbsee> JaneW: do you have a meeting agenda, that you'll be using today?
[02:04] <Hobbsee> i'm not terribly familiar with edubuntu, or it's meetings
[02:04] <JaneW> Hobbsee: we have a standard (very loose) format
[02:05] <JaneW> start with tech discussion
[02:05] <JaneW> move to documentation
[02:05] <JaneW> then artowrk
[02:05] <JaneW> artwork even
[02:05] <Hobbsee> ok, cool, thanks
[02:05] <JaneW> then community and other
[02:05] <flint> Hobbsee, note the use of the term "very loose"
[02:05] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords#head-5e7f70a61c134d6b4d43164288d5c686da158155
[02:05] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:05] <ogra> Hobbsee, ^^
[02:05] <Hobbsee> thanks very much ogra 
[02:06] <JaneW> Hobbsee: sorry my typing is bad :(
[02:06] <JaneW> hi freeflying-ibook 
[02:06] <Hobbsee> man!  i like the red of the logo and background!  *considers a red kubuntu*
[02:06] <JaneW> ok let's hit it
[02:06] <freeflying-ibook> JaneW: hi
[02:06] <ogra> so its five minutes after, lets start
[02:06] <JaneW> Hobbsee: yeah our graphics ROCK
[02:06] <Hobbsee> they do!
[02:06] <ogra> Hobbsee, feel free to make kedubuntu :)
[02:07] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:07] <JaneW> ogra: where do we stand on the dev side?
[02:07] <juliux> ogra, lol
[02:07] <ogra> not much happened edubuntu wise on my desk last week ... 
[02:07] <ogra> (i was mostly busy with ubuntu bugs) 
[02:08] <ogra> i prepared a patch to the installer part of ltsp though, that should let us get rid of the post install editing of the dhcp config
[02:08] <ogra> i also worked on a better progress reporting of the ltsp part in the installer 
[02:08] <ogra> additionally i looked over highvoltages edubuntu getting started doc, which i'd like to ship by default in edubuntu-docs
[02:09] <ogra> thats all i did on a tech side ... 
[02:09] <JaneW> Does Edubuntu have many bugs?
[02:09] <JaneW> over and above the ubuntu ones?
[02:09] <ogra> a hand full 
[02:09] <ogra> (~5) :)
[02:09] <JaneW> sounds good
[02:09] <jsgotangco> :)
[02:09] <JaneW> how serious are they?
[02:10] <ogra> not very
[02:10] <JaneW> and think they will get fixed before the release?
[02:10] <ogra> and mostly they turn out as ubuntu bugs
[02:10] <juliux> what is with the alt +f7 bug? 
[02:10] <JaneW> do you think this extra QA time is helping ? In general, and for edubuntu specifically?
[02:10] <ogra> i havent got a bug about that yet
[02:10] <ogra> not really
[02:11] <ogra> edubuntu would be ready so far if we wanted it
[02:11] <juliux> ogra, because we dont know where the bug is in xorg or ltsp or something else
[02:11] <JaneW> things seem much more relaxed and less panicked than last time
[02:11] <ogra> but indeed we build from ubuntu packages that have open bugs
[02:11] <juliux> see the mail from jeff elkner
[02:11] <JaneW> which is nice, but I hope we don't lose momentum and the excitement
[02:11] <juliux> hi mhz 
[02:11] <ogra> juliux, i refuse to read *any* mail from jeff that contains the word bug
[02:11] <JaneW> hi mhz 
[02:11] <juliux> ogra, ok
[02:12] <mhz> hi there! sorry i am late (agan)
[02:12] <juliux> ogra, i will open a bug against edubuntu
[02:12] <ogra> i told him 100 ties to please file them in LP
[02:12] <flint> ogra, he actually filed a bug report finally Ollie...
[02:12] <JaneW> juliux: thank-you
[02:12] <ogra> flint, against what ? 
[02:12] <juliux> ogra, but if you dont know against which package there is a problem
[02:12] <JaneW> unfortunately jelkner is not a good bug filer
[02:12] <ogra> i dont see any bugreport from him
[02:12] <JaneW> but he is a useful tester
[02:12] <jsgotangco> you dont need to know what specific package is to file in rosaetta
[02:13] <JaneW> so if anyone can help to file the bugs he finds that would be very helpful
[02:13] <jsgotangco> you can put it blank
[02:13] <flint> I believe he told me against edubuntu... I will backtrack and verify based upon this.
[02:13] <JaneW> ogra: agreed? ^
[02:13] <ogra> juliux, if in doubt, file it against edubuntu-meta and i'll push it to the right package
[02:13] <juliux> ogra, ok
[02:13] <jsgotangco> a triage team will then direct it accordingly
[02:13] <ogra> 99% of the bugs are ubuntu bugs anyway
[02:13] <JaneW> yes as long as a bug is filed ogra can do something with it, please don;t expect ogra to file all the bugs himself
[02:14] <spacey> hi
[02:14] <spacey> sorry i'm late
[02:14] <JaneW> hi spacey 
[02:14] <jsgotangco> can anyone specify the exact bug #
[02:14] <ogra> JaneW, i dont care about filing them myself as long as i dont have to read a several pages big email to find one line at the end that tells me about the bug
[02:14] <JaneW> ogra: fair enough
[02:15] <ogra> ok, so much from the tech side ....
[02:15] <ogra> i have something else ...
[02:15] <JaneW> ok so either file a big or send a concise and clear description of it to ogra (pref with steps to reproduce?)
[02:15] <JaneW> ogra: yes?
[02:15] <ogra> yep
[02:15] <JaneW> big=bug
[02:15] <ogra> malone is always preferred indeed
[02:15] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members
[02:15] <ogra> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[02:15] <JaneW> yes bug to be filed in MALONE
[02:16] <JaneW> oops sorry
[02:16] <ogra> we have CC powers !!!
[02:16] <JaneW> do that again, I won;t mess it up ;P
[02:16] <mhz> JaneW: is there a EdubuntuHowToFileABug (mini instructions)
[02:16] <ogra> (or something like that)
[02:16] <ogra> mhz, there is HelpingWithBugs that should totally suffice
[02:16] <flint> ogra, nice touch the arrows... 
[02:16] <JaneW> mhz: good point but we should pull it from ubuntu, as it's no different
[02:17] <JaneW> ogra: was that decides at last nights CC?
[02:17] <JaneW> decided
[02:17] <mhz> ogra: okis, JaneW, then agree if I make that page and link it to HelpingWithBugs?
[02:17] <ogra> so we have a launchpad team now that enables us to approve members like the CC does 
[02:17] <JaneW> mhz: perfect thanks ! :)
[02:17] <flint> ogra, I swear a mighty oath that elkner said he "maloned" the bug he found.  I will get to the bottom of this. I have emailed him just now.
[02:17] <ogra> additionally all members of that team will have @edubuntu.org mailadresses
[02:17] <JaneW> ogra: do we have a clear process for that?
[02:17] <JaneW> w00t!
[02:18] <ogra> i think the usual CC process applies here
[02:18] <jsgotangco> heh another spam bait forwarder lol
[02:18] <ogra> so you need to be a member already or comply to the rules to become a member to join that team
[02:19] <mhz> cool
[02:19] <juliux> ogra, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-meta/+bug/39294 i hope my english isnt to bad
[02:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39294 in edubuntu-meta "No ldm login on the thinclient" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[02:19] <mhz> good marketing/encouraging people feature
[02:19] <ogra> so we'll take the big crowd of edubuntu member applicants from the CC in the future :P
[02:19] <ogra> juliux, thanks !
[02:19] <JaneW> juliux: thanks
[02:20] <JaneW> games of chance are fun! :)
[02:20] <mhz> juliux: your english is not so buggy :D
[02:20] <JaneW> (sorry I was channeling flint for a second)
[02:20] <JaneW> ok artwork
[02:20] <ogra> the question with that team is, how do we want to handle it ? 
[02:20] <JaneW> are we any nearer to anything artwork wise?
[02:20] <ogra> we'll need meetings like the CC meeting to review and approve people 
[02:20] <JaneW> oops sorry, we still busy with the other topic
[02:21] <flint> JaneW, I do pretty well, considering I am a native speaker... :^)
[02:21] <ogra> JaneW and i both agree that we dont want an additional meeting on our schedule
[02:21] <mhz> ogra: but these Edubuntu Council :D meetings could be held every 3 weeks or every 2 weeks?
[02:21] <JaneW> possibly monthly initially
[02:22] <ogra> so the proposal was to have the meeting we have now on a two week schedule instead of weekly and have a ECC meeting in the new two week gap
[02:22] <JaneW> depends on the volume of discussion
[02:22] <JaneW> is once ever 2 weeks enough for dev meetings?
[02:22] <ogra> i guess monthly would be anough as well
[02:22] <JaneW> esp in a normal dev cycle which is much faster
[02:22] <flint> JaneW, while you may laugh at this discussion of empowerment, I would like to propose to the CC that they set up a certification in edubuntu...
[02:23] <ogra> i think in the beginnig we can start with reviewing people who want to join the team once a month additionally to that meeting without changing the schedule
[02:23] <JaneW> LOL
[02:23] <mhz> flint: but let's 1st finish Ubuntu Certifiaction ;)
[02:23] <JaneW> flint: you are kidding right?
[02:23] <ogra> later we can make them 2 weekly
[02:23] <JaneW> ogra: I agree with that
[02:23] <jsgotangco> flint: that's hardly needed, edubuntu is ubuntu :P
[02:23] <flint> JaneW, no.  mhz separate and distinct from the cannonical ubuntu certification.
[02:23] <ogra> so lets say every first meeting in a month we do our approval
[02:24] <JaneW> ogra: agreed
[02:24] <flint> jsgotangco, no it is very different. ask Olli
[02:24] <JaneW> ogra: it will need to be listed  clearly in an agenda
[02:24] <ogra> yes, we'll need an agenda like CC and TB have
[02:24] <mhz> ogra: +1
[02:24] <JaneW> ogra: so #1 will be the first week of May
[02:24] <ogra> yep
[02:24] <JaneW> +1
[02:25] <JaneW> done, I guess
[02:25] <flint> JaneW, I would propose that membership and certification be based upon contribution.  This would motivate people to get things accomplished (beyond Oliver and yourself)
[02:25] <ogra> yup, done
[02:25] <jsgotangco> ogra: cheater you only look at edubuntu-meta :P
[02:25] <JaneW> flint: you still seem confussed about what certification means
[02:25] <ogra> flint, the same rules apply as they do for ubuntu members
[02:25] <ogra> the process is well documented
[02:26] <JaneW> ogra: we'll need to put something on the wiki
[02:26] <ogra> jsgotangco, ?
[02:26] <ogra> yup
[02:26] <flint> JaneW, cannonical certification is a commercial certificaiton. i am not confused even though I am a bitter old man.
[02:26] <ogra> but we only need to link to the appropriate ubuntu pages
[02:26] <JaneW> flint: it's not an internal qualification
[02:27] <flint> JaneW, the qualification would come from the edubuntu council.
[02:27] <JaneW> and means nothing (or is not nec relevent)here in our community
[02:27] <flint> the community certifies the practictioner.
[02:27] <JaneW> flint: anyway we can discuss that further in the ECC meetings
[02:27] <JaneW> agreed?
[02:27] <flint> done
[02:27] <JaneW> ty
[02:27] <JaneW> ok artwork
[02:27] <mhz> hehehe
[02:27] <JaneW> are we any nearer to anything artwork wise?
[02:28] <JaneW> did anyone manage to get anything out of toxictoadz?
[02:28] <JaneW> I don't think so
[02:28] <JaneW> which means we still don;t have our young/naive background
[02:28] <JaneW> jsgotangco: yes?
[02:28] <jsgotangco> JaneW: do i still get to do the Firefox page?
[02:29] <JaneW> jsgotangco: the about edubuntu page?
[02:29] <jsgotangco> or do we stick to Ubuntu page
[02:29] <ogra> jsgotangco, go go go !
[02:29] <JaneW> yes, I'd say so
[02:29] <jsgotangco> JaneW: that's easy i could whip it up starting tommorow (holidays)
[02:29] <JaneW> or rather any reason why not to do it?
[02:29] <mhz> nomed: hey! welcome!
[02:29] <jsgotangco> JaneW: the Ubuntu FF homepage are now translated
[02:29] <JaneW> I think it's def appropriate to have it
[02:29] <nomed> hi mhz 
[02:29] <JaneW> and we can have edubuntu spec stuff and links
[02:29] <flint> welcome nomed
[02:30] <mhz> nomed: we are just starting to discuss about edubuntu artwork
[02:30] <JaneW> jsgotangco: if you can do it please do
[02:30] <Florob> Wouldn't that break doc freeze somehow?
[02:30] <ogra> jsgotangco, as long as we can still use an untranslated version, all is fine
[02:30] <JaneW> I think mhz would be happy to help with translations
[02:30] <jsgotangco> Florob: not at all
[02:30] <ogra> Florob, edubuntu has no doc freeze
[02:30] <JaneW> mhz? ^
[02:30] <ogra> we shoot ourselves in the foot with that 
[02:30] <mhz> JaneW: +1
[02:30] <JaneW> wasn;t there a technical constraint with it last time?
[02:30] <ogra> *we'd
[02:30] <Florob> didn't no you're THAT seperate from ubuntu
[02:30] <JaneW> mhz: +10 :)
[02:31] <mhz> JaneW: however, afaik, 'es' is already done. Sure, I can help on edubuntu.es for firefox
[02:31] <ogra> Florob, we arent, but we'll use the extended time to finish up missing docs, that was claer from the beginning
[02:31] <JaneW> mhz: yes for edubuntu.es
[02:31] <highvoltage> sorry, i have a local meeting here and will miss most of this meeting, but will catch up later
[02:31] <ogra> if the docteam wants to restrict itself, its allowed to do that, we wont :)
[02:32] <Florob> ogra, didn't know that, thanks
[02:32] <JaneW> highvoltage: ok, quickly, did you hear from toxictoadz??
[02:32] <ogra> highvoltage, local meetings are overrated
[02:32] <juliux> highvoltage, where is edubuntugirl?
[02:32] <JaneW> ogra: but not attending can be a CLM
[02:32] <mhz> JaneW: okis, I'll follow jsgotangco lead (again)
[02:32] <ogra> heh
[02:32] <JaneW> mhz: super thanks
[02:33] <ogra> juliux, that can wait until after release, we have some release critical things first ;)
[02:33] <JaneW> can we use it as is if we have to?
[02:33] <juliux> hmpf
[02:33] <ogra> why not
[02:33] <JaneW> it is a bit too bright and busy I'll admit, it would be better adjusted
[02:33] <flint> edubuntugirl somebody is making this up...
[02:33] <JaneW> unless someone wants to creat some new and wonderful designs
[02:33] <JaneW> flint: NOT handicapped ducks though
[02:34] <ogra> i'd be fine with using it 
[02:34] <ogra> its a bit small though
[02:34] <JaneW> oic
[02:34] <ogra> (1024x786)
[02:34] <flint> JaneW, harsh, very harsh ( god i love that duck! \:^)
[02:34] <ogra> but smalle pics are eating less space :)
[02:34] <JaneW> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/76
[02:35] <JaneW> ogra: is it not resizable?
[02:35] <JaneW> in all it;s glory http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/Edubuntu-Children_Of_Edubuntu_1024x768.png
[02:35] <ogra> sure it is, but scaling up looses quality
[02:36] <JaneW> flint: it may make him blind, but jelkner can't complain about lack of diversity there....
[02:36] <mhz> toxi... is TOOO much "in your face"
[02:36] <ogra> having the svg and exporting it at 1600x1200 would be better
[02:36] <JaneW> ok I'll mail the creator again, and see if I can get him to respond
[02:36] <flint> JaneW, I kinda like the "Its A Small World After All" (IASWAA) theme of it.
[02:36] <ogra> jsgotangco, yes, and there is not *one* blue kid among them !!
[02:36] <spacey> thats an awful wallpaper
[02:37] <ogra> spacey, thats fine for the kids theme ... we wont use it by default
[02:37] <JaneW> spacey: get a better one then
[02:37] <JaneW> yes please note this is not for the default install
[02:37] <flint> jsgotangco, everyone is a critic. Ars Gratia Artes...
[02:37] <mhz> ogra: jsgotangco , heheheh
[02:37] <spacey> i have no creative/art talent unfortunately :P
[02:37] <JaneW> it's for the younger look option
[02:38] <ogra> spacey, but you work in a school ... poke your arts teacher ;)
[02:38] <mhz> JaneW: so default will be...?
[02:38] <ogra> mhz, NN
[02:38] <JaneW> spacey: how old are the kids there?
[02:38] <flint> jsgotangco, if we are going to get critical that tree in the back is pretty phalic... :^)
[02:38] <mhz> NN?
[02:38] <JaneW> spacey: are you involved with little kids or older students only?
[02:38] <ogra> not nominated
[02:38] <spacey> ogra: uh 4-16
[02:38] <jsgotangco> flint: hahaha
[02:38] <spacey> primary school
[02:38] <jsgotangco> flint: and bushy
[02:38] <JaneW> spacey: cool, well please can you show the pic to some of them and get some responses and feedback
[02:38] <spacey> with some special education
[02:39] <ogra> spacey, perfect !
[02:39] <JaneW> i.e. do they love or hate it
[02:39] <spacey> JaneW: sure can
[02:39] <JaneW> we need something that appeals to 6-10 year olds
[02:39] <spacey> are there more pics then the happy rainbow one?
[02:39] <flint> I want to take up a collection to get the white kid and the asian girl eyes...
[02:39] <ogra> nope, not yet
[02:39] <JaneW> and crosses gender, culture and language borders etc
[02:39] <ogra> we should probably do a call on the ML
[02:39] <JaneW> spacey: not at the moment, but you can show them our original edubuntu girl too
[02:39] <spacey> i have the feeling there are no artistic souls at the school we use edubuntu
[02:40] <spacey> JaneW: they already know that one
[02:40] <JaneW> this is all we have so far http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/
[02:40] <flint> JaneW, the real question is not whether it will appeal to a bunch of geeks (no offense intended :^) but if this art will appeal to teachers and students...
[02:40] <spacey> i like that one :)
[02:40] <JaneW> we'd welcome more submissions though
[02:40] <jsgotangco> they seem to use macs 
[02:41] <JaneW> ok so everyone show artwork to ppl, and get responses and or submissions of better stuff
[02:41] <jsgotangco> what happened to consigned artwork?
[02:41] <spacey> argh art.ubuntu.com doesn't work with lunchpad logins?
[02:41] <JaneW> we don;t want more articles saying 'nice distro, sucky wall paper'
[02:41] <jsgotangco> spacey: aye, we're slimy bastards
[02:42] <JaneW> alhtough to be honest I think edubuntu girl is the strongest part of our identity now, so I stand by that decision still!
[02:42] <JaneW> we will have a professionally designed wallpaper for the default install
[02:42] <JaneW> we haven;t seen it yet
[02:42] <spacey> i like edubuntu girl wallpaper
[02:42] <jsgotangco> JaneW: try the current ubuntu wallpaper heh
[02:43] <spacey> jsgotangco: that one sucks imo :)
[02:43] <jsgotangco> it has a nice jigsaw puzzle
[02:43] <JaneW> jsgotangco: I haven't seen it...
[02:43] <flint> JaneW, I am so glad that art is not my department...
[02:43] <jsgotangco> spacey: you'll have to thank dholbach's brother for that :)
[02:44] <JaneW> and he produced a pencil drawing of him vomiting spectacularly. Clearly that's his current strongest memeory ;)
[02:44] <flint> JaneW, where send a url.
[02:44] <spacey> :>
[02:44] <JaneW> fun
[02:44] <ogra> can we get it as a wallpaper ?
[02:44] <jsgotangco> i approve fully of your son then
[02:45] <JaneW> ok let's see if we can more of an artwork pool to draw from (pun intended)
[02:45] <flint> jsgotangco, got my vote...
[02:45] <JaneW> so if you know anyone creative start nagging them
[02:45] <ogra> JaneW, mailing list :)
[02:45] <JaneW> you can e-mail the stuff to me if you don't want to log into art.u.c....
[02:45] <JaneW> jsgotangco: so is ogra!
[02:45] <JaneW> :P
[02:45] <ogra> haha
[02:46] <JaneW> ok what else?
[02:46] <JaneW> we have a cookbook meeting following this
[02:46] <jsgotangco> yeah don't go to the art.u.c route its too much pain at the moment
[02:47] <JaneW> we could stay here if the flow is good and we are not in the way
[02:47] <JaneW> else it will be in #edubuntu-cookbook
[02:47] <ogra> there is a xubuntu meeting in 1h
[02:47] <JaneW> jsgotangco: I have an admin login on art.u.c afaik, so I can post stuff there, we might as well use it...
[02:47] <mhz> JaneW: sorry I was on phone.. JaneW any of your kids near 6-10 years old?
[02:47] <jsgotangco> JaneW: so do i but approval is a pain
[02:47] <ogra> but i'd really prefer to use a public and logged channel
[02:48] <JaneW> ogra: ok let's stick to #e-cookbook
[02:48] <JaneW> jsgotangco: yes both. 4 and 6
[02:48] <juliux> if somebody wants to come to the linuxtag www.linuxtag.org in wiesbaden/germany, i have 57 onedaytickets for free!
[02:48] <ogra> cant we just do it in #edubuntu ? 
[02:48] <JaneW> jsgotangco: so I have testers right here
[02:48] <JaneW> ogra: I suppose, but then we will be in the way of ppl asking support questions
[02:49] <ogra> *doesnt
[02:49] <jsgotangco> linuxtag!
[02:49] <juliux> ogra, sure ? ;)
[02:49] <ogra> JaneW, we can bear that 
[02:49] <mhz> JaneW: so, could ask them what things they like to see in a background or something like that? I will ask my kids too (4 and 9)
[02:49] <ogra> juliux, not really :)
[02:49] <JaneW> mhz: yes
[02:49] <mhz> juliux: I do!
[02:49] <flint> mhz, that is a good idea.
[02:50] <ogra> JaneW, i'd just like to be able to look up what we talked about in 3 months 
[02:50] <juliux> mhz, you are coming to germany?
[02:50] <JaneW> however my oldest son (of vomit picture) skews the stats
[02:50] <JaneW> I showed him edubuntu-mustard vs edubuntu-girl and he liked the MUSTARD!
[02:50] <ogra> yay!
[02:50] <jsgotangco> lol
[02:50] <JaneW> *shakes head*
[02:50] <jsgotangco> i would like to say your son has...
[02:50] <ogra> mustard for *all* OSes !!!!
[02:50] <jsgotangco> excellent taste?
[02:50] <Seveas> maybe he's just in the i-hate-girls phase 
[02:51] <mhz> juliux: nope...sorry, I is just that I'd love to go. Esp. because we are having a big event on June here in chile and would like some to get extra ideas
[02:51] <JaneW> Seveas: you may be right :)
[02:51] <ogra> microsoft mustard, the successor of vista !
[02:51] <jsgotangco> are we continuing here?
[02:52] <ogra> lets make the room free for xubuntu ...
[02:52] <mhz> JaneW: hehehehehe, sure that happens, that is why we need more kids to see. Actually, I can talk to a junior teacher (for 3 to 5 years old kids) about it too. No worry, we'll get to a solution.
[02:52] <JaneW> great thanks
[02:53] <JaneW> ok next week please bring your art projects with you :)
[02:53] <JaneW> anything else?
[02:53] <JaneW> does anyone else want to speak?
[02:53] <jsgotangco> my 4 year old doesn't even see the difference she sees the logo its all ubuntu for her
[02:53] <ogra> juliux seem to have opened the edubuntu marketing team :)
[02:53] <JaneW> else break for coffee for 5 mins
[02:53] <juliux> ogra, if you mean
[02:53] <Florob> While that is not the reason I was hear I have a suggestion (but maybe that's more appropriate for ML or whishlist bug)
[02:53] <ogra> we have a wonderful concept with real prices etc (sorry, german): http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntu/Konzept
[02:54] <juliux> *grummel*
[02:54] <mhz> JaneW: what if we took pictures of kids at schools. Could we use these pictures for backgrounds?
[02:54] <ogra> (a draft indeed)
[02:54] <ogra> juliux, ?
[02:54] <jsgotangco> wow
[02:54] <Kinnison> mhz: You'd have to get signed waivers from the parents of every kid involved
[02:54] <jsgotangco> an all-in one package
[02:54] <Hobbsee> i'm kind of wishing i was still at school now - school is thinking of making a computer lab of computers with suse on them...
[02:54] <ogra> jsgotangco, yep
[02:54] <juliux> ogra, it isnt ready
[02:54] <jsgotangco> ogra: that's nice...
[02:55] <juliux> in the next days i will do it with old pc as clients
[02:55] <ogra> juliux, but announcing it will help ghetting it in other languages with other local prices ;)
[02:55] <juliux> and with dualcore server
[02:55] <mhz> Kinnison: sure. Maybe we could have a series of pictures of kids of diff ages, so we get diff backgrounds in a series.
[02:55] <juliux> ogra, its ok
[02:55] <ogra> juliux, it would be a nice to have for all common regions :)
[02:55] <mhz> JaneW: what if we made a contest. "send us your class pictures and probaby get backgrounded for edubuntu distro" ?
[02:55] <juliux> ogra, that is a lof of wark
[02:55] <juliux> work
[02:55] <juliux> lot
[02:56] <ogra> so if someone wants to do the same, see juliux' draft
[02:56] <ogra> juliux, i didnt say *you* should do it ;)
[02:56] <juliux> ogra, i know
[02:56] <ogra> ok, coffebrak
[02:56] <ogra> *break
[02:56] <mhz> JaneW: ?
[02:57] <mhz> .oO(she must be getting a coffee and a muffin)
[02:59] <highvoltage> JaneW: no :(
[03:01] <freeflying> ogra: anything relate with CJK need we do ?
[03:01] <freeflying> ogra: in edubuntu
[03:01] <ogra> no idea, i have no feedback at all from CJK users yet
[03:01] <JaneW> I'm back
[03:01] <JaneW> where are we going?
[03:01] <ogra> (no bugs but also no success reports)
[03:02] <freeflying> ogra: how about the difault font in edubuntu
[03:02] <freeflying> s/difault/default
[03:02] <ogra> freeflying, ah, damned i forgot about that, we'll need to change it, it has utf8 issues 
[03:03] <ogra> the "normal" fonts are the same as in ubuntu (we cut down the amount of shipped fonts but the defauklt is the same)
[03:03] <ogra> we only differ in the default desktop font
[03:04] <freeflying> ogra: how about use one chinese font, drop out the exist four 
[03:05] <JaneW> mhz: nice idea
[03:05] <JaneW> ok cookbook meeting in #edubuntu now
[03:05] <ogra> freeflying, we have <200K free space on the CD would that fit ? 
[03:06] <freeflying> ogra: where is the seeds of edubuntu
[03:06] <ogra> same place as the seeds of ubuntu
[03:06] <ogra> in colins home on people.u.c
[03:07] <freeflying> ogra: now only need keep ttf-arphic-uming
[03:07] <freeflying> ogra: you may grop ttf-arphic-ukai out 
[03:07] <freeflying> s/grop/drop out
[03:08] <ogra> ok
[03:08] <ogra> that should gain us some space i guess
[03:08] <freeflying> hope will save some space for edubuntu
[03:08] <ogra> yeah :)
[03:23] <bur[n] er> doh, i'm late!
[03:23] <Gloubiboulga> bur[n] er, non non :)
[03:23] <Gloubiboulga> s/non/no/g
[03:24] <bur[n] er> cool, in that case, has anyone else seen the issue where you can't get the gtk theme away from orange... no matter what theme I pick, my titlebar stays orange... i think it happened when i installed kubuntu
[03:24] <bur[n] er> er... i'm referring to xubuntu, not edubuntu
[03:25] <Gloubiboulga> bur[n] er, please report the bug on malone :)
[03:25] <nomed> bur[n] er, $HOME/.gtkrc-2.0 ?
[03:25] <bur[n] er> well, i don't wanna produce a crappy bug report... i'm not sure what causes it] 
[03:26] <bur[n] er> nomed: i have that file... i suppose it could be the cause, but gtk isn't b0rked in gnome
[03:26] <nomed> bur[n] er, what's the path of include "?"
[03:27] <bur[n] er> /usr/share/themes/Human/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
[03:27] <bur[n] er> is that my problem you think?
[03:28] <nomed> possible
[03:28] <bur[n] er> this is minor anyway... i wanted to put the idea of changing the xfce icon theme out there since "rodent" is fugly ;)
[03:29] <janimo> hi all
[03:29] <Gloubiboulga> bur[n] er, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuMeetingAgenda << we'll discuss this :)
[03:29] <nomed> bur[n] er, we'll discuss it in a while :)
[03:29] <janimo> the changing of icon theme from rodent is planned
[03:29] <Gloubiboulga> hi Jani
[03:29] <janimo> shall we start now?
[03:29] <nomed> hi janimo Gloubiboulga 
[03:29] <Gloubiboulga> yep
[03:29] <nomed> i'm ready
[03:29] <janimo> ok 1)xarchiver
[03:29] <nomed> ok
[03:29] <janimo> just saw a mail on xfce-devel
[03:30] <janimo> they are heavily rewriting it seems
[03:30] <janimo> I wonder if it will be ready on time
[03:30] <nomed> janimo, yes
[03:30] <nomed> but even improving it
[03:30] <nomed> they'll not use glade file anymore for ex
[03:30] <janimo> any ETA?
[03:30] <Meyer> eheheh
[03:31] <nomed> janimo, now it doesn't depend on "old" upstreamers ..
[03:31] <nomed> well just on them
[03:31] <janimo> "old"? 
[03:31] <janimo> what is new now?
[03:31] <nomed> janimo, yes ... there are 2 more 
[03:31] <janimo> when do you think we could package it?
[03:31] <nomed> one is fixing the gui 
[03:32] <janimo> if they get it ready in a month it may be too late for dapper :(
[03:32] <nomed> janimo, they told me last week ..
[03:32] <nomed> janimo, i know
[03:32] <janimo> I'd have prefrerred a fixed 0.3.x release 
[03:32] <nomed> i'm waitin an answer from upstreamer
[03:32] <janimo> so we can package/review/main/CD
[03:32] <nomed> janimo, me too
[03:32] <janimo> I think I'll upload 0.3.9 you packaged last time
[03:33] <janimo> so we go in parallel with reviewing
[03:33] <nomed> as soon as they'll answer i'll send a mail to xubuntu-devel
[03:33] <janimo> or do they rewrite it all?
[03:33] <janimo> ok thanks
[03:33] <nomed> janimo, that would be the best i guess
[03:33] <janimo> what they seem to be doing now is optimising
[03:33] <janimo> xarchiver already seemed pretty fast and useful
[03:33] <nomed> yes
[03:34] <janimo> ok 2)icon theme
[03:34] <janimo> any news from tango artists?
[03:34] <janimo> tango is now in main we could just make that default and be done
[03:34] <nomed> janimo, he's working on some icons
[03:35] <nomed> janimo, i think we can have a complete xubuntu-tango icons theme
[03:35] <bur[n] er> i'm all for tango as the default :)  it was the compelling reason to be here this morning
[03:35] <janimo> nomed, ETA?
[03:35] <nomed> but as i'm not the one workin on it ... i can just report what he told me
[03:35] <janimo> yes, but we should know how to plan as we are getting short on time
[03:35] <nomed> janimo, "soon"
[03:36] <nomed> janimo, i know 
[03:36] <janimo> most changes going into xubuntu are getting as restricted as the rest if we want a quality release
[03:36] <nomed> but we can't do anything more then wait
[03:36] <janimo> that's what canonical wants too, so we cannot keep on adding features sadly :)
[03:36] <nomed> and use ROdent in case it'll not be ready
[03:37] <bur[n] er> even tango-icon-theme package as it stands now is better than rodent
[03:37] <janimo> nomed, well I'll add tango to default install anyway
[03:37] <janimo> nomed, defaut tangoi is surely better no than rodent?
[03:37] <nomed> yes
[03:37] <janimo> so I'll add that 
[03:37] <nomed> janimo, what i'll do is to create links to missing icon names
[03:37] <nomed> in case new icons will not be ready ..
[03:38] <nomed> i checked it and most of the icons are already there
[03:38] <janimo> do you know of icons in tango-icon-theme which are missing for xfce?
[03:38] <nomed> if you do not consider xfce4-terminal pref icons for ex
[03:38] <janimo> is that not app specific?
[03:39] <janimo> as long as we have a consistent and complete icon theme I'm content
[03:39] <nomed> http://foo-projects.org/~jasper/ICONTHEMES
[03:39] <nomed> janimo, mainly it's just a problem of creating links to existing icons ..
[03:39] <nomed> as most of them have just different names
[03:40] <nomed> if not all ..
[03:40] <janimo> ok
[03:40] <janimo> do we need to create this is the tango icon package?
[03:40] <janimo> taking it up with upstream tango?
[03:40] <janimo> or solved within xfce somehow?
[03:41] <nomed> janimo, two ways
[03:41] <janimo> the icons I noticed missing are suspend hibernate
[03:41] <nomed> 1) send patches to upstreamers ..  as
[03:41] <nomed> icons and missing icon-naming entry in the "spec"
[03:42] <nomed> 2) have the xubuntu icons theme including just those icons
[03:42] <nomed> janimo, i'll ask to lapo
[03:42] <nomed> and i'll try to get him here for next meeting
[03:42] <janimo> 2) should matter for upstream xfce I guess
[03:43] <janimo> so for 1) there are icon names in xfce which may have to get into the naming spec right?
[03:43] <nomed> it would be better yes
[03:43] <nomed> but not needed 
[03:44] <nomed> janimo, i would just be able to use inkscape
[03:44] <nomed> really
[03:44] <nomed> :)
[03:44] <janimo> do you think it's hard to convince tango upstream?
[03:44] <janimo> or why do we have to consider our own package?
[03:44] <nomed> janimo, well ...
[03:45] <nomed> better to consider our own
[03:45] <janimo> xfce upstreams position should matter on this, I am not clear about it
[03:45] <nomed> and see if it'll be possible to include them in tango if posible
[03:46] <nomed> janimo, benny told me he would be happy to have xfce icons included in those specs
[03:46] <nomed> but there are too much variables here
[03:46] <nomed> xfce upsrteamer ..
[03:46] <nomed> tango and spec upstreamer
[03:46] <nomed> xubuntu artist
[03:46] <janimo> we should not be a variable here, just use best of what upstreams agreed upon 
[03:47] <nomed> at this stage we should take care of xubuntu-icons 
[03:47] <janimo> xubuntu artist should do additional not replacement  work
[03:47] <nomed> yes
[03:47] <janimo> well but if they are not ready we cannot do that :)
[03:48] <nomed> janimo, the additional work could be then included into official releases ..
[03:48] <nomed> of spec and icons
[03:48] <nomed> as the artist is involved in tango proj
[03:48] <janimo> yes, that's what I am saying, but included so we can use it. not after we include it
[03:48] <janimo> which icons are we missing do you have a list?
[03:49] <janimo> that link above?
[03:49] <nomed> that's one link yes
[03:49] <nomed> and here the one other ..
[03:49] <nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/mediawiki/index.php/Roadmap-0.3-1:XfceTheme
[03:50] <nomed> janimo, mainly there are those two you told
[03:50] <janimo> suspend/hibernate?
[03:51] <nomed> yes
[03:51] <nomed> and one icon for the pager
[03:51] <nomed> and taskbar too if i'm not wrong
[03:51] <janimo> we won't make a new icon package just for 3 icons?! :)
[03:51] <nomed> janimo, no that's sure :)
[03:51] <janimo> panel plugin icons?
[03:51] <nomed> janimo, yep
[03:52] <Gloubiboulga> there's a lot of missing icons for the plugins
[03:52] <janimo> suspend/hibernate will probably be local to xfce4-session since the other icons in the dialog are there so that's checked
[03:52] <nomed> but from what i've understood those icons are needed even for other DMs
[03:52] <nomed> Gloubiboulga, yep ..
[03:52] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: yes, or more likely their desktop file does not reference them
[03:52] <janimo> susp/hib is not in the spec now so it definitely post dapper anyway
[03:52] <nomed> but taskbar and pager could be considered as general DMs icons
[03:52] <nomed> more then apps icons
[03:53] <janimo> app specific ones we solve in apps
[03:53] <janimo> nomed, where do taskbar and pager need to show up? so I can check what we are missing now
[03:53] <janimo> jsgotangco: this is not edubuntu :)
[03:54] <janimo> you have to wiggle your mouse tail
[03:54] <jsgotangco> heh just one quick Q
[03:54] <janimo> to conform to _our_ logo :)
[03:54] <jsgotangco> janimo: are you still going to derive gnome-app-install?
[03:54] <nomed> janimo, i'm refering to icons that are in Settings manager
[03:54] <janimo> jsgotangco: if someone gets to do it maybe
[03:54] <janimo> are you pro or con?
[03:54] <nomed> janimo, those icons are hardcoded somehow ...
[03:54] <jsgotangco> janimo: ok if its get done, ping me up i'll update the help files
[03:54] <nomed> we'll need to patch it i guess ..
[03:54] <janimo> nomed, oh yes those need fixing
[03:55] <janimo> jsgotangco: you need it for documenting it?
[03:55] <nomed> they use just icons from hicolor theme
[03:55] <nomed> if i'm not wrong
[03:55] <jsgotangco> janimo: change strings too if needed
[03:55] <janimo> jsgotangco: ok then. I'll see to it.it should be easier to do than update-manager
[03:56] <janimo> jsgotangco: thanks
[03:56] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[03:56] <jsgotangco> janimo: its the start of the holidays so plenty of time to look into such
[03:56] <janimo> :)
[03:56] <jsgotangco> on my side
[03:57] <janimo> nomed, those icons in settings manager need to be bugs against that package upstream if they do not work 
[03:57] <janimo> so they make fallback for them or correct the paths
[03:57] <janimo> I noticed preferred apps does not have icon here
[03:57] <freeflying> sorry , who is incharge of xubuntu's seed 
[03:57] <janimo> freeflying: me
[03:58] <freeflying> janimo: do you hae anyproblem with cd space ?
[03:58] <janimo> yes, too much free space
[03:58] <janimo> :)
[03:58] <freeflying> s/hae/have
[03:58] <nomed> janimo, it's because that icons ahs been removed from tango icon theme ..
[03:58] <nomed> if you're using it
[03:58] <freeflying> janimo: then , okey 
[03:58] <nomed> benny is the only one using the spec
[03:58] <janimo> nomed, recently?
[03:58] <nomed> not really
[03:58] <janimo> freeflying: what do you want to suggest for the CD?
[03:59] <nomed> but that icon exists .. we'll need just to add it again ..
[03:59] <freeflying> janimo: I worried about the space firstly , now It's okey 
[03:59] <janimo> nomed, they must have had a reason to remove it?
[03:59] <nomed> janimo, sure .. but i do not know
[03:59] <janimo> freeflying: we're at 435M out of 650-700 so we're doing well
[04:00] <janimo> will probably add more stuff 
[04:00] <nomed> it was the package-manager icon
[04:00] <janimo> nomed, is that icon present in rodent?
[04:00] <freeflying> janimo: then add language-pack for zh_CN :)
[04:00] <nomed> janimo, i do not think
[04:01] <nomed> it was in the old spec
[04:01] <janimo> freeflying: sure. We'll add many language packs, right now is whatever I merged from ubuntu seeds.
[04:01] <janimo> Do ubuntu not ship zh_CN on CD?
[04:01] <freeflying> janimo: not support-pack
[04:01] <janimo> freeflying: do chinese users need OOo too ?
[04:02] <nomed> janimo, are u sure it's not in exo pkge ?
[04:02] <freeflying> janimo: ya, 
[04:02] <freeflying> janimo: you wanna use OOo in xubuntu ? 
[04:02] <janimo> nomed, did not look
[04:02] <nomed> http://svn.xfce.org/svn/xfce/libexo/trunk/icons/48x48/preferences-desktop-default-applications.png
[04:02] <nomed> janimo, yes it is
[04:03] <nomed> malone ? :)
[04:03] <nomed> it was just a concidence :)
[04:03] <janimo> nomed, so why does setting dialog not pick it up?
[04:04] <janimo> freeflying: not installing OO by default, but since there is space on the CD it will probably be shipped.
[04:04] <freeflying> janimo: why not goffice 
[04:04] <nomed> janimo, i think you forgot to install it
[04:04] <janimo> since I understood that it's the only office that has decent asian langiage support
[04:05] <janimo> nomed, oh in that case cool I'll fix it
[04:05] <janimo> :)
[04:05] <nomed> ehehe
[04:05] <janimo> freeflying: we install abiword by default
[04:05] <janimo> and hopefully gnumeric too soon
[04:06] <janimo> but I understood they do not handle well at least the Indian languages 
[04:06] <freeflying> janimo: if I decide , I will use koffice , :) ,but it's xubuntu 
[04:06] <freeflying> janimo: same for Chinese
[04:07] <janimo> freeflying: so we install goffice because it's small and probably ship OOo just in case
[04:08] <janimo> nomed, so the conclusion is: add tango to xubuntu default now
[04:09] <janimo> keep in touch with tango artist
[04:09] <nomed> janimo, i'll do that
[04:09] <janimo> ok, thanks
[04:09] <nomed> but i'n not the one that can use inkscape ...
[04:09] <janimo> I wonder if xfce upstream devs seem to use tango why do they still keep rodent as default in release
[04:09] <nomed> i can't promise anything ...
[04:10] <nomed> even if i feel i can trust that guy
[04:10] <janimo> nomed, why do you need to use inkscape? :)
[04:10] <nomed> janimo, to tell you ... we'll have tango complete and ready for xubuntu
[04:10] <nomed> :)
[04:10] <nomed> but i can't
[04:10] <janimo> ah, np
[04:10] <janimo> I think we will have it complete but maybe not too shiny
[04:11] <janimo> tango-icon-them + fixes in our apps shoukld be enough
[04:11] <nomed> yep .. i think so
[04:11] <bur[n] er> == leaps and bounds better than rodent ;)
[04:11] <janimo> we just have to avoid missing/broken incons
[04:11] <janimo> I prefer the gnome/human icon theme I think :)
[04:11] <janimo> at least for the showdesktop icon
[04:12] <janimo> that;s the only one I am sure changes between themes :)
[04:12] <janimo> the others I do not always notice
[04:12] <janimo> ok 3) color theme poll
[04:12] <nomed> ohhh ... 
[04:12] <janimo> seems like blue is ok after all 
[04:12] <nomed> this stuff is driving me crazy
[04:12] <nomed> janimo, yep
[04:12] <janimo> nomed ?
[04:12] <nomed> +1 for me
[04:13] <nomed> janimo, it needs to be better organized
[04:13] <janimo> since nobody came forward with green or steel
[04:13] <janimo> otr anything else
[04:13] <janimo> nomed, one page per colour theme in the wiki
[04:13] <janimo> do you think something more elaborate?
[04:13] <janimo> hi luzi
[04:13] <luzi> hi guys! just finished class...
[04:14] <nomed> hi luzi
[04:14] <nomed> janimo, if we'll have a pool
[04:14] <nomed> we can't have wiki pages showing same stuff 
[04:14] <nomed> i mean
[04:15] <janimo> poll would just link to the pages
[04:15] <nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuLook
[04:15] <nomed> luzi, has been the first one to add stuff :)
[04:15] <janimo> oh so steel has proponents
[04:15] <janimo> good
[04:15] <nomed>    DapperXubuntLookProposalGray <-- here
[04:16] <nomed> if each person will have his own page i guess it could be a caos
[04:16] <janimo> looks nice
[04:16] <nomed> in case there will be many ..
[04:16] <janimo> not for each person, but for each theme
[04:16] <nomed> luzi, me too
[04:16] <nomed> i like that very much
[04:16] <janimo> if more people want steel they have to subpoll among themselves which to put forward
[04:16] <janimo> I like it too
[04:16] <nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuColorScheme
[04:16] <nomed> here is what i proposed
[04:16] <janimo> luzi, that's enough detail I think since it gives an idea
[04:17] <nomed> i mean just the layout
[04:17] <janimo> nomed, that's good too but the attachments do not show
[04:17] <nomed> it 's important to have svgs too
[04:17] <nomed> janimo, yes .. there aren't :)
[04:17] <janimo> but svg or not is the same when looking at it
[04:17] <nomed> you have to upload them
[04:17] <janimo> we just want to see how they'd look
[04:17] <janimo> ah ok
[04:18] <janimo> ah ok, so this starting page and then link to the detailed pages as the steel one
[04:18] <janimo> seems ok to me
[04:18] <luzi> so when are we going to have the vote?
[04:18] <janimo> nomed, would you announce this on the list?
[04:19] <nomed> janimo, i did it already
[04:19] <janimo> luzi, we should decide now when to vote
[04:19] <nomed> but i guess it 's better if you do that :D
[04:19] <janimo> nomed, ok not read it yet
[04:19] <janimo> so let's give a few days for people to propose themes
[04:19] <janimo> then have a voting for a few days
[04:19] <nomed> janimo, one i wouldn't be heavy ...
[04:20] <nomed> but ..
[04:20] <janimo> heavy?
[04:20] <nomed> we need at least one svg image of the logo
[04:20] <nomed> so people can work on the same
[04:20] <janimo> nomed, I see
[04:20] <janimo> do we not have the original mouse in SVG?
[04:20] <nomed> janimo, here is the point 
[04:20] <nomed> no
[04:20] <luzi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuArtwork?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xubuntu_logo.svgz
[04:20] <janimo> although I think a png can be modified just as fine 
[04:20] <nomed> does it work for you ?
[04:21] <nomed> janimo, umm
[04:21] <janimo> broken link here
[04:21] <nomed> let's say or gimp image or svg
[04:21] <janimo> it's gzipped probbaly that;s why
[04:21] <janimo> nomed, I am fine with any
[04:22] <luzi> firefox tries to display it as xml, that's why. just save to file.
[04:22] <janimo> I assumed people who know these tools can work with anything
[04:22] <janimo> especially if it's only colour changes not anything more elaborate
[04:22] <janimo> luzi, what image is the steel logo based on?
[04:23] <janimo> svg?
[04:23] <janimo> gray I mean
[04:23] <luzi> the link i just gave
[04:23] <nomed> luzi, thanks now i got it
[04:23] <janimo> ok
[04:23] <janimo> there's also an usplash needed
[04:23] <nomed> luzi, could you attach it to that page
[04:23] <nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuColorScheme
[04:24] <janimo> it would be better imho if all colour variants used the same images otherwise
[04:24] <janimo> so the difference is not in other elements
[04:24] <janimo> how does that sound?
[04:24] <janimo> it may be that some things only 'work' with some colours I don;t know
[04:24] <nomed> janimo, sure 
[04:24] <nomed> that's the way in my opinion
[04:25] <luzi> fine with me
[04:25] <nomed> to use same "patterns" and hex colors
[04:25] <janimo> anyway later on with wallpapers people have more freedom
[04:25] <janimo> we need to see how the logo/usplash/gdm theme looks
[04:25] <janimo> luzi, so with an usplash that entry could be complete
[04:26] <luzi> i'll try to get a usplash for "gray" done 
[04:26] <janimo> luzi, thanks
[04:26] <nomed> i liked luzi colors since the beginning
[04:26] <nomed> i could already vote for it i guess
[04:26] <janimo> OT: btw does anyone else remember if in xfce 4.2 you could change kb shortcuts
[04:26] <janimo> now they are greyed out
[04:26] <luzi> they are not really my colors, i took them from the xfce.org page
[04:27] <janimo> I asked on xfce-dev but no answer yet
[04:27] <nomed> janimo, yes you could
[04:27] <janimo> nomed, and now it does not work right?
[04:27] <nomed> modify the default and save it with a different name
[04:27] <nomed> janimo, there was a discussion about this
[04:27] <janimo> nomed, but in 4.2 it used to be easier
[04:27] <janimo> nomed, oh on the list?
[04:27] <nomed> yes
[04:27] <nomed> xfce-dev
[04:27] <janimo> hmm I must have missed it
[04:27] <nomed> they decided to use a different approach
[04:28] <nomed> but i do not like that much how it is now
[04:28] <janimo> do you have some pointers (time period, subhect)
[04:29] <janimo> nomed, we will vote in LP officially even if you know you choose the gray :)
[04:29] <nomed> ehehe
[04:30] <nomed> Shortcut plugin 4.4
[04:30] <nomed> Subj ...
[04:30] <janimo> nomed, ok thanks
[04:30] <nomed> if that's what you meant
[04:30] <janimo> jsgotangco: is about ubuntu final now in doc svn?
[04:31] <janimo> I saw today browser-startpage got removed/renamed
[04:32] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, I have to go, is there something else we should discuss?
[04:32] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: no
[04:32] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[04:32] <janimo> see you later, bye
[04:32] <nomed> bye Gloubiboulga 
[04:32] <jsgotangco> janimo: yes its already in rosetta
[04:32] <Gloubiboulga> I'll be back monday...
[04:32] <Gloubiboulga> cu
[04:33] <jsgotangco> jsgotangco: i could fork it and create something for xubuntu if you want to
[04:33] <janimo> luzi, xubuntu about should be close to ready for rosetta right?
[04:33] <janimo> jsgotangco: thanks
[04:33] <jsgotangco> ahh someone alreayd doing it
[04:33] <janimo> jsgotangco: I think luzi has something alreday based on that
[04:33] <jsgotangco> cheers
[04:33] <janimo> ok, anything else?
[04:34] <luzi> i didn't do anything to the browser-startpage. i think it could use a few changes.
[04:35] <janimo> luzi, I saw that was renamed in ubuntu to about-ubuntu I think
[04:36] <janimo> luzi, yes it;s the original doc written when a guide was not planned. it's there since breezy
[04:36] <nomed> any idea for xubuntu.org ?
[04:36] <luzi> ok, have to check about-ubuntu when i get home
[04:37] <nomed> and it would be nice to be here too
[04:37] <nomed> http://art.ubuntu.com/ ..
[04:37] <janimo> luzi, thanks
[04:37] <janimo> nomed, good point I was about to bring that up
[04:37] <janimo> we need someone to make the page
[04:37] <janimo> anything minimal but decent
[04:38] <nomed> janimo, should it be just a css hack ?
[04:38] <janimo> and get the webmaster access to the canonical server which hosts it
[04:38] <janimo> nomed, quite possibly I am very clueless wrt web authoring
[04:38] <janimo> s/wrt/also wrt/ ;)
[04:39] <janimo> nomed, I think a plone skin is what they say
[04:39] <janimo> I see kubuntu and edubuntu have quite an identity
[04:39] <janimo> we could but later on
[04:39] <janimo> it would b great if for beta (20 Apr) we had xubuntu.org pointing to something similar to the firefox startpage at leats
[04:40] <nomed> janimo, it looks just a modified css ..
[04:40] <janimo> with links on the side to the other ubuntus
[04:40] <nomed> but bhoo
[04:41] <nomed> we should ask to the person who made k|edu|ubuntu
[04:41] <janimo> wow for art.ubuntu.com
[04:41] <nomed> i see sometimes they show same pages
[04:41] <janimo> well, anything that is not ugly and has xubuntu info on the front page would do for now
[04:42] <janimo> I'll inquire canonical people to see who could upload the material once we have it
[04:42] <nomed> janimo, it would be better to have first of all the template
[04:43] <janimo> nomed, do you have time/interest in this?
[04:43] <nomed> but mainly a person that could work on it :/
[04:43] <janimo> I guess  not :)
[04:43] <nomed> janimo, not in this period
[04:43] <janimo> understandable
[04:44] <luzi> if it's just a CSS, it would be easy
[04:44] <nomed> luzi, i guess it'll be
[04:44] <nomed> luzi, check edubuntu and kubuntu
[04:44] <nomed> edubuntu has something more ...
[04:45] <nomed> but the template seems the same
[04:45] <janimo> nomed, in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuColorScheme page
[04:45] <janimo> do you have alink to the specific big page for each entry>
[04:45] <janimo> ?
[04:45] <Riddell> luzi: it's not
[04:45] <janimo> that'd be easier than those attachements
[04:46] <nomed> janimo, view ?
[04:46] <Riddell> it's an html file with a debian alternatives setting
[04:46] <luzi> Riddell, how would we go about to make our own? where to get information?
[04:46] <janimo> nomed, that;s only the wallpaper, I thought about the whole 'gray' entry page
[04:47] <nomed> janimo, no but you have all the stuff linked in that table row
[04:47] <nomed> it's the same ..
[04:47] <Riddell> luzi: just look at the pre and post install scripts in kubuntu-docs and do something similar in the appropriate xubuntu package
[04:47] <janimo> nomed, I see. but more click :)
[04:47] <nomed> well yes 
[04:47] <janimo> Riddell: talking about the website not the firefox about page :)
[04:47] <nomed> but less pages
[04:47] <janimo> for xubuntu.org
[04:48] <nomed> anyway .. i'll add a link to [Luzi] 
[04:48] <janimo> thanks
[04:50] <nomed> janimo, check that page now
[04:50] <janimo> nomed good ;)
[04:52] <nomed> ok
[04:53] <nomed> what i'll do is to send an email as soon as i'll have more infos about xarchiver
[04:53] <luzi> janimo, did you see the message on xfce mailing list about people feeling uncomfortable that Xubuntu packages Xfce stuff that is not released yet?
[04:53] <nomed> and maybe tomorrow i'll start a page to show the needed icons ...
[04:53] <janimo> luzi, that;s not people generally , that's the grumpiest xfce dev
[04:53] <nomed> luzi, i've seen it ... and ..
[04:54] <nomed> that's what i was going to say :)
[04:54] <janimo> so I only worry about bugs we may have not the 4.3 tag on it
[04:54] <luzi> ok
[04:54] <janimo> he seems like a good guy but sometimes just behaves like that
[04:55] <janimo> nomed, ok wrt xarchiver
[04:55] <janimo> wow, bling on LP
[04:55] <janimo> new menus
[04:56] <nomed> janimo, well .. i've never seen an email by him saying .. "i'm sorry but ..." :)
[04:56] <janimo> nomed, deep inside everybody is a good guy/gal
[04:56] <janimo> :)
[04:56] <janimo> just does not show it
[04:56] <janimo> wlel maybe there are a few exceptions ;)
[04:56] <nomed> eheheh
[04:57] <nomed> ohhh launchpad now has an aqua theme :)
[04:57] <nomed> really nice anyway
[04:57] <jsgotangco> janimo: epiphany doesn't like it though
[04:58] <janimo> jsgotangco: does not like what?
[04:58] <jsgotangco> the new menu bling
[04:58] <jsgotangco> it extends to the whole width of the browser in epi
[05:01] <nomed> janimo, last question ...
[05:01] <janimo> aha
[05:01] <janimo> mgalvin: hello
[05:01] <nomed> why wouldn't you move gdm theme to xubuntu-artwork ?
[05:01] <janimo> thanks for the doc
[05:01] <janimo> nomed, I am willing to , it just not up in the TODO
[05:02] <janimo> now that ivman is not in by default default settings have less reason to live
[05:02] <nomed> yep
[05:02] <mgalvin> janimo: hi
[05:02] <janimo> mgalvin, answered your mail
[05:02] <janimo> mgalvin: we surely want and will to help out with that
[05:03] <janimo> Matt is writing a xubuntu intro as he has for ubuntu flights
[05:03] <mgalvin> janimo: great! thanks! :)
[05:04] <janimo> luzi, it probably has things in common with the desktop guide
[05:04] <janimo> you're both in the doc team, can collaborate :)
[05:04] <janimo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuDapperBeta
[05:04] <mgalvin> i am going to try and make sure all the officially supported derivs have a beta tour and all future tours as well
[05:05] <janimo> mgalvin: nice
[05:05] <mgalvin> cool i will talk with luzi about it more
[05:05] <mgalvin> i will mail the list in a bit about it too
[05:05] <janimo> mgalvin: is the tour supposed to have a bird's eye view of the stuff or more task oriented?
[05:05] <luzi> ok, looks nice!
[05:05] <janimo> I guess the latter is for the guide
[05:06] <jsgotangco> janimo: tours are much nicer if it has user benefits instead of features
[05:06] <mgalvin> birds eye mostly but i do not strictly adhear to that...
[05:06] <mgalvin> anything very notable
[05:06] <mgalvin> but mostly birds eye of the desktops
[05:06] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: yeah like a mouse running on a spinning logo
[05:06] <janimo> ;)
[05:06] <mgalvin> :)
[05:07] <janimo> xfce 4.4beta1 is due next week hopefull
[05:07] <janimo> y
[05:07] <janimo> their announcement may have some notable things which can be borrowed
[05:07] <janimo> for other non-xfce stuff, hmm
[05:07] <mgalvin> cool, i will keep an eye out for it, maybe i will just subscribe to their lists later
[05:08] <janimo> goffice probably
[05:08] <janimo> mgalvin: I can send you a link unless you areinterested in duscussion there
[05:08] <janimo> when it is out I mean, no need to subscribe just for that
[05:09] <mgalvin> if you can send me a link that would be best
[05:10] <janimo> mgalvin: ok
[05:21] <luzi> is the meeting over?
[10:11] <Ju> Hi all !
[10:13] <Ju> Does anyone have a contact for http://behindubuntu.org/ ? Project interview fr/de have an interview of Jane Silberg
[10:25] <Ju> ok, it's sealne....