[12:06] <mdke> actually, gedit in general has had a few regressions, I may have to start using a real editor at some stage
[12:07] <Burgwork> mdke, bug pbor, gedit is quite interested in making it more than just a text editor
[12:08] <mdke> pbor?
[12:08] <mdke> ok
[12:08] <Burgwork> that is his irc nick on gimp.net
[12:08] <mdke> lack of syntax highlighting (bug) and crappy "go to line" (feature?) is annoying me right now
[12:13] <mdke_> can I send someone a patch for the serverguide? My svn password is indisposed
[12:17] <LaserJock> mdke_: I can if you want
[12:17] <mdke_> thanks dude
[12:17] <Burgwork> mdke_, I really wish we could change our svn passwords...
[12:17] <trappist> +1
[12:18] <mdke_> we might be tempted to make them less secure!
[12:18] <LaserJock> or let other people make changes when we can't remember ours ;-)
[12:18] <Burgwork> so secure I don't commit due to not being on the machine that has the password on it
[12:19] <trappist> LaserJock: :)
[12:19] <trappist> it's practically impossible to remember a secure-enough password.  especially with as many passwords as most people have.
[12:20] <trappist> we could use ssh + keys instead
[12:20] <LaserJock> that is why I kept my email so I can go look it up
[12:20] <mdke_> my fingers tend to remember my ssh key password
[12:20] <mdke_> but if I had to write it down, I'd struggle
[12:20] <mdke_> even though it's not very hard
[12:21] <mdke_> LaserJock, sent
[12:21] <trappist> mdke_: there's a motivation when that one pass(word|phrase) unlocks dozens of accounts
[12:21] <mdke_> yeah, i use it for gpg too
[12:21] <trappist> gack
[12:21] <mdke_> ssh
[12:22] <trappist> my gpg passphrase, I use ONLY for gpg
[12:22] <Burgwork> indeed
[12:22] <mdke_> anyway, postfix works now
[12:22] <trappist> and it contains a confession to a crime, lest anyone try to subpoena it.  no idea if that would hold up :)
[12:23] <crimsun> LaserJock: in vim, [esc] :%s/[ctrl+v] [ctrl+m] //g     (where you'd actually press esc, ctrl+v, and ctrl+m)
[12:23] <LaserJock> crimsun: ah, good to know
[12:24] <LaserJock> mdke_: this should go in dapper branch server guide, right?
[12:24] <mdke_> LaserJock, yes please
[12:26] <LaserJock> mdke_: r2874
[12:26] <mdke_> LaserJock, merci beaucoup. trappist, it's all yours
[02:41] <mdke> jeez, evolution is a lot uglier in dapper
[02:42] <Burgundavia> mdke: having fun? ;)
[02:42] <Burgundavia> evo needs to die
[02:43] <mdke> why the hell is the folder tree so heavily indented now?
[02:43] <mdke> maybe it's the font
[03:01] <Burgundavia> eds is nice
[03:01] <Burgundavia> dates, contacts and tinymail look cool
[03:02] <mdke> argh
[03:02] <mdke> and nautilus crashes all the time
[03:04] <mdke> gnome 2.14.1 had better be good :)
[03:04] <crimsun> don't we already have 2.14.1?
[03:05] <mdke> I'm still on 2.14.0, just installed from flight 6 and still upgrading
[03:05] <mdke> dunno if it's on its way in the upgrade
[03:05] <crimsun> ah. yeah, it went in yesterday.
[03:05] <mdke> ah cool
[03:06] <mdke> right now, if I try and drag and drop a file from a directory where I have read (not write) permission, it tries to move it, and says "permission denied"
[04:37] <robotgeek> hey KingBahamut , long time
[04:37] <KingBahamut> rg
[04:37] <KingBahamut> whats the know?
[04:38] <robotgeek> translations have begun 
[04:56] <robotgeek> anyone notice the new lp look, very slick
[04:57] <crimsun> I'm undecided about the dropdowns, but I do like the new workflow
[04:57] <crimsun> namely there's now an option for filing a bug against some package of which you don't know the name
[04:58] <crimsun> I'm certainly finding it more intuitive than bugzilla, but perhaps that's just my addled brain
[05:00] <robotgeek> the dropdowns are slightly confusing, as they don't appear for all "tabs"
[07:09] <Madpilot> hi all
[07:10] <Burgundavia> salut Madpilot
[07:10] <dsas> hallo
[07:12] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: sick, but funny humour --> http://www.um.com.au/gallipoli.html
[07:13] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, oh boy. Does it actually run?
[07:13] <Burgundavia> not tried it
[07:14] <Burgundavia> but unlike lemmings, you get points by killing your men
[07:14] <Madpilot> well, of course. An authentic WW1 game should :P
[07:22] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: I am annoyed I am going to be missing LWNW
[07:22] <Madpilot> yeah, but you'll be making money and exploring exciting Oklahoma! :P
[07:22] <robotgeek> we should meet if you will coming around NY :)
[07:23] <Madpilot> robotgeek, I thought you were in Texas?
[07:23] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i moved to NJ
[07:23] <Burgundavia> not likely to be on the east coast for a while
[07:23] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, any of your sales territory in the eastern US?
[07:23] <Burgundavia> further east in the US is Michigan
[09:31] <highvoltage> ubuntu-docs just got upgraded, the version number is still 6.04. that's changing to 6.06, right.
[11:02] <mdke> highvoltage, it changes according to which month we're in
[11:05] <highvoltage> aaaaah
[11:06] <mdke> cool huh?
[11:06] <mdke> must have been dholbach's idea
[11:18] <mdke> Burgwork, you can open odt's in abiword?? awesome news, thanks
[11:58] <rob> hmm, Brian had a good point on the forums regarding the marketing team thread on the list
[11:58] <rob> gotta wonder why they didn't do that in the first place
[11:59] <mdke> yes, there's no reason to have another separate one
[11:59] <rob> yep
[01:01] <rob> just spoke to jenda, apparently the forums won't support them, they asked for that when they first started
[01:01] <rob> kind of stinks if you ask me
[01:02] <mdke> rob, maybe they didn't approach them in the right way
[01:03] <rob> maybe
[01:04] <rob> heh yeah
[01:28] <jenda> rob! that's not the way it is - that's just the way it started
[01:29] <jenda> anyway - I said we would consider it :)
[01:29] <rob> did you ask them or just set up your own forum, then ask?
[01:30] <jenda> I have a _lot_ on my shoulders studying and Lloyd fighting SWpats in Ireland - so give us time :)
[01:30] <mdke> it would be quite easy for the forums to add a "marketing" section, actually they probably have something similar already
[01:30] <rob> mdke, yes, and they might just have
[01:31] <rob> there is a Ubuntu art forum at least..
[01:31] <mdke> it's pretty tricky to find forums now with the new layout...
[01:31] <mdke> they definitely should add a marketing/advocacy forum
[01:32] <jenda> mdke, rob - please let us make a decision before we do anything :) We have a good forum worknig at the moment.
[01:32] <rob> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=78
[01:32] <rob> what the heck? Ubuntu User Guide forum?
[01:32] <mdke> rob, that's the old ubuntuguide.org forum
[01:34] <rob> apparently not: http://easylinux.info/wiki/Ubuntu_dapper
[01:34] <jenda> that is now replaced, I think by easylinux.info
[01:35] <rob> make the bad man stop!
[01:35] <mdke> rob, that's the new (updated) ubuntuguide
[01:37] <rob> yeah, and its just as locked down too (looks like a wiki, smells like a wiki, but won't let you sign up a new account!)
[01:37] <mdke> I think it should be open
[01:38] <rob> nope, need to be registered to edit, clicking on Create an account or login only gives you the option to log in
[01:38] <jenda> rob: it is a wiki, but AFAIK, closed a bit... it's kinda why I left the project :)
[01:39] <rob> I really need to get cracking on those ideas from a few weeks ago..
[02:20] <jenda> I'd like to point the Doc Team's attention to an idea i submitted in the MT (not mine originally): http://www.ubuntupeople.com/file/forums/viewtopic.php?t=58
[02:20] <jenda> it concerns shipit - a way to make it more effective.
[02:21] <jenda> by including... what else... a little bit of documentation.
[02:33] <mdke> jenda, posting to the mailing list is the best idea
[02:33] <jenda> k
[02:34] <mdke> someone is going to have to pay for it though
[02:34] <mdke> so include jane on the email
[02:37] <mdke> jenda, ^
[02:37] <jenda> Hmm... can you give me an address? I have little clue who jane is :)
[02:38] <mdke> erm...
[02:38] <mdke> you have a marketing team which has no contact with Canonical at all?
[02:38] <jenda> I'm not the contact :)
[02:38] <mdke> ok
[02:38] <jenda> And Lloyd Hardy would know more.
[02:38] <mdke> most marketing is done within Canonical, so I kinda assumed the group would be tightly integrated
[02:39] <mdke> it's jane.silber@canonical.com
[02:39] <jenda> In fact, I was thinking it would be better to present Canonical/shipit with a ready made booklet - don't worry, it wouldn't be wasted work even if they refuse.
[02:39] <jenda> thanks.
[04:58] <trappist> hey fellas, http://www.conglomerate.org/
[04:59] <mdke> hi trappist 
[04:59] <trappist> hey mdke 
[04:59] <trappist> I'm just now getting started on the serverguide :/
[05:00] <mdke> trappist, that's great!
[05:00] <trappist> wait, should I check out the new branch? what's going on with that?
[05:00] <mdke> yes, do everything in the branch
[05:01] <mdke> it's not so big, 40 meg or so
[05:01] <trappist> got a svn co url?
[05:01] <mdke> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/dapper
[05:01] <trappist> thanks
[05:02] <trappist> 14M here
[05:02] <jjesse> just check out everything from https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos  :)
[05:02] <mdke> oh, even better
[05:02] <mdke> jjesse, heh, that takes a _long_ time.
[05:03] <mdke> i did it this morning, so frustrating to see all the crap we have hanging around
[05:03] <jjesse> mdke: grin i know
[05:03] <mdke> we should get rid of "vendor" and "branches/froud" i think
[05:03] <jjesse> agreed on the branches/froud
[05:20] <trappist> any of you guys have a non-dhcp ethernet device and want to share your /etc/network/interfaces with me to use as an example?
[05:21] <jjesse> sure hold on
[05:23] <jjesse> trappist: how does this look :http://pastebin.com/657790
[05:23] <trappist> jjesse: that'll get me started, thanks
[05:50] <LaserJock> hi jenda 
[05:50] <jenda> hello... just blew a fuse - otherwise, I wasn't away :)
[05:57] <trappist> mdke: new network configuration section is committed
[05:57] <mdke> trappist, awesome!
[05:59] <mdke> trappist, ok, i tested postfix yesterday and it works, so what's next? do we want to try and get in his suggestions about referring to upstream documentation for every apache directive?
[05:59] <mdke> it might be a bit tricky, because sometimes there is more than one directive per paragraph
[06:00] <trappist> mdke: I think it could be made less intrusive by changing directive names to ulinks to their respective pages
[06:00] <mdke> trappist, that would work, if we introduce the idea in the introduction. nice idea
[06:01] <trappist> mdke: I've been getting my butt kicked at work this week.  I'm sorta pushing it, taking the time to do the network configuration just now.  I can see about getting to apache this evening, if you haven't done it by then.
[06:02] <mdke> trappist, I think I can do it. I've got the day off today
[06:02] <trappist> sweet
[06:02] <trappist> is launchpad down?
[06:02] <mdke> all of Ubuntu is down
[06:02] <trappist> suck
[06:08] <mdke> trappist, do you think the apache changes are important? It has occurred to me that a lot of long strings will be changed, some translation may be lost. Not sure whether it will be worth it.
[06:09] <trappist> mdke: I think that's a good call.  I think it's a great idea but not worth messing with or delaying the translators.
[06:10] <mdke> trappist, I'm going to look at the state of translations when LP comes back up, then we'll see
[06:10] <trappist> any word on why it's down?
[06:11] <mdke>  [16:59:51]  < Kinnison> DC appears to have dropped off the 'net
[06:12] <mdke> ah, back
[06:13] <mdke> trappist, hmm. some people have made a fair start on it, but nothing too big
[06:14] <trappist> my thinking is, we refer to the top level of the apache docs (iirc) and the items for individual config directives are easy to find from there, so it's a good idea, but I still dunno if it's worth a string freeze exception
[06:15] <mdke> let's leave it
[06:15] <mdke> is anything else not working in the guide?
[06:15] <trappist> I'd have to look back at those emails...
[06:16] <mdke> there was something brief on the firewall bit
[06:16] <trappist> yeah I'm looking at it now
[06:18] <trappist> I actually sort of disagree with him on his suggestion.  his rules cast a wider net, which is ok and potentially simpler, but it's also slightly less secure and incur unnecessary overhead by masquerading packets that don't need it
[06:19] <trappist> like packets originating from the firewall box
[06:20] <trappist> oh, actually it doesn't do that, nm.  I think I'll put it in the same category - good suggestion, but not an error correction or anything major enough for a string freeze exception.  that's my vote.
[06:20] <mdke> ok, fine
[06:21] <mdke> ok, everything else is fixed, I think
[06:21] <mdke> yes
[06:28] <trappist> great
[06:30] <trappist> mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Listiquette <-- excellent
[06:33] <trappist> mdke: I've heard it suggested that when you remove text from an attributed quote, you should replace the removed text with something like "[snip] " to avoid confusion about context.  what do you think?
[06:36] <mdke> trappist, sure, that's good practice, I think
[08:43] <Burgwork> mdke, is there a way to force the logout of another user on the system
[08:43] <mdke> Burgwork, no idea dude, sorry
[08:44] <Burgwork> you must be able to do it, I just don't know how
[08:44] <mdke> yeah, maybe someone in #ubuntu will know
[08:45] <dsas> Burgwork: If they're ssh'd in you can kill the pid of their ssh session
[08:45] <Burgwork> logged in directly
[08:50] <trappist> could kill the pid of their shell
[09:04] <Burgwork> hmm
[09:13] <Burgwork> trappist, how would I go about finding that?
[09:14] <trappist> ps aux | grep username ?
[09:15] <Burgwork> can I kill their gnome-session?
[09:15] <trappist> oh, that kind of login...
[09:15] <trappist> he'll probably have lots of stuff running as him
[09:15] <dsas> ps -u$username would be the 'canonical' way to do that, I  believe.
[09:15] <Burgwork> yep
[09:16] <trappist> dsas: good call
[09:16] <trappist> Burgwork: it would probably be unsafe unless there's some kind of logout signal gnome would accept
[09:16] <trappist> and I don't know if there's such a thing
[09:16] <Burgwork> hmm, just did that
[09:17] <Burgwork> I don;t know that that killed xscreensaver, which is eating the cpu
[09:18] <trappist> if you're worried about xscreensaver, why not just kill xscreensaver?
[09:19] <Burgwork> hmm, now I don't know what is happening
[09:19] <Burgwork> cpu usage is spiked at 100%, with top claiming that this is X doing it. Usually that means xscreensaver is running a 3d screensaver on these radeon 7000s
[10:01] <mdke> http://www.mdke.org/images/l10n.png
[10:02] <mdke> sexy
[10:03] <robotgeek> mdke: ++
[10:04] <trappist> hot
[10:05] <Burgwork> shiny
[10:14] <mdke> crap
[10:42] <mdke> god. It's a dark day when your goddam terminal crashes
[11:28] <mdke> LaserJock, http://mdke.org/images/package.png
[11:30] <LaserJock> mdke: that is soo cool
[11:30] <mdke> :)
[11:30] <LaserJock> mdke: do you use translate.sh to do that?
[11:30] <mdke> yes
[11:32] <theCore> LaserJock: hi
[11:33] <LaserJock> hi theCore 
[11:33] <LaserJock> theCore: check out http://mdke.org/images/package.png
[11:34] <theCore> is it the Packaging Guide?
[11:34] <LaserJock> yep
[11:34] <theCore> in Japanese?
[11:34] <theCore> woah!
[11:35] <LaserJock> hmm, not sure my guess is Korean or Chinese
[11:35] <mdke> korean yeah
[11:35] <LaserJock> theCore: the details are at: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/packagingguide/
[11:36] <theCore> they translate faster than we write :)
[11:36] <theCore> a lot faster
[11:36] <LaserJock> but there are a lot of translations to do as well
[11:37] <LaserJock> I talked to raphink (who is a core-dev and MOTU) about translations (he is doing French) and he said it was really hard
[11:37] <LaserJock> even though he knew the material
[11:38] <theCore> the guide or to translate?
[11:38] <LaserJock> translate
[11:38] <LaserJock> he also wrote some
[11:38] <theCore> fhew 
[11:39] <LaserJock> theCore: can you translate?
[11:39] <theCore> yes I could 
[11:39] <LaserJock> what languages do you know (English obviously)
[11:39] <theCore> but not now, I got a family supper today
[11:40] <theCore> French
[11:40] <LaserJock> ah, yes of course
[11:40] <LaserJock> I see mdke did some Italian :-)
[11:41] <LaserJock> no German though, which seems odd
[11:42] <theCore> I wish I could speak Italian ...
[11:42] <mdke> LaserJock, only like a string, was just testing something
[11:42] <mdke> ahhhh
[11:42] <LaserJock> mdke: actually 3 strings it looks like ;-)
[11:43] <LaserJock> heh, keep telling yourself that ;-)
[11:43] <mdke> aboutubuntu and aboutkubuntu aren't working, I've had to file a bug on xml2po
[11:43] <LaserJock> :(
[11:43] <mdke> everything else seems to work very nicely
[11:43] <theCore> Launchpad interface for translating is ugly 
[11:43] <mdke> LaserJock, that's ok, the xml2po guy is a GOD, he will sort it quickly
[11:44] <mdke> cvs xml2po even has an "ubuntu mode" since I asked him about something that xml2po couldn't do
[11:45] <theCore> Hmm ... I can't translate, because I'm not an ``official'' translator.
[11:46] <LaserJock> mdke: wow, cool
[11:46] <LaserJock> theCore: I think you can
[11:46] <mdke> you can make suggestions
[11:46] <LaserJock> but it probably has to be review first or something like that
[11:48] <theCore> ok, I see
[11:50] <theCore> I must go now
[11:51] <theCore> cya later
[11:52] <LaserJock> mdke: I'd like to say thanks for all the leadership and help you have provided, you have really inspired me to be a part of the doc team :-)
[11:53] <mdke> LaserJock, aww. thanks, it's been great to have you on board!
[11:53] <mdke> this release cycle has been awesome for new contributors, it's been really exciting
[11:54] <mdke> LaserJock, in your case, you joining has meant an extra doc, so :)
[11:55] <LaserJock> well, I'm hoping to be able to help with all the docs for Dapper+1
[11:55] <mdke> that would be great
[11:56] <LaserJock> I'm not a writer and I have a lot to learn, but I really enjoy this team
[11:57] <mdke> that's made my day
[11:58] <LaserJock> well, seeing something I have written be translated before my eyes into so many languages and to have it go out to so many people
[11:58] <LaserJock> it's amazing and humbling at the same  time
[12:00] <mdke> yeah it is pretty cool. I hope lots of translations get done