[12:05] <sabdfl> hey lamont, happy easter!
[12:06] <lamont> you too sabdfl 
[12:11] <highvoltage> happy easter, ubuntero's!
[12:15] <bddebian> Easter?  Aren't you all long-haired hippy commie athiests?
[12:16] <womble> bddebian: Yes, but even long-haired hippy commie athiests like chocolate.
[12:16] <bddebian> Ah, hehe
[12:16] <womble> And that's really what we're all celebrating today
[12:17] <bddebian> highvoltage: Can you check your system for bitstream fonts?
[12:18] <highvoltage> bddebian: sure
[12:18] <bddebian> I think it's using tetex-ttmf
[12:18] <bddebian> Err texmf-tetex
[12:19] <highvoltage> bddebian: well, i have the ttf-bitstream-vera package installed
[12:19] <highvoltage> bddebian: what should I check?
[12:19] <bddebian> Where is that?
[12:20] <bddebian>  /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ ?
[12:21] <highvoltage> there are 11 font files in /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-bitstream-vera
[12:33] <bddebian> How the heck can kde and xfce be treating them differently??
[12:35] <bddebian> Hmm, default font is supposed to be adobe-courer-
[12:35] <bddebian> courier even
[12:38] <highvoltage> really? weird that they chose a non-free font.
[01:18] <bddebian> Does kde provide it's own fonts at all?
[01:47] <pygi> To everyone around here: Happy easter to you, and everyone you care for :)
[01:48] <bddebian> You too pygi, thanks
[01:50] <[Chameleon] > pygi: thanks, same to you and yours.
[02:03] <mdke> bddebian, i've heard you say a bit that you're the master of desktop files, would you fancy uploading the patch on bug #39507, by any chance?
[02:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39507 in gxine "HIG compliant menu entry" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39507
[02:16] <bddebian> mdke: Sure thing
[02:26] <mdke> bddebian, awesome, thanks muchly
[02:26] <bddebian> Thank you
[02:26] <bddebian> :-)
[02:28] <tseng> what is up bddebian 
[02:28] <bddebian> tseng: Looking at bugs I can't fix apparently.  You?
[02:28] <tseng> not much
[04:24] <bddebian> Ack, another fucking xmkmf package
[08:12] <glatzor> _ion: ping
[08:13] <\sh> happy easter everyone
[08:22] <fabbione> hey \sh
[08:23] <fabbione> thanks same to you
[08:23] <\sh> hey fabbione, how it's going :) 
[08:23] <fabbione> \sh: as usual and you?
[08:23] <fabbione> i am glad to see you around
[08:24] <ajmitch> hi fabbione 
[08:24] <fabbione> hi ajmitch 
[08:24] <fabbione> ajmitch: no T2000 yet?
[08:24] <\sh> well...I'm living somehow next to the sewers of my city...but _I will survive_ :)
[08:24] <ajmitch> they're in the server room
[08:24] <ajmitch> I just need access :)
[08:24] <fabbione> ajmitch: http://www.stdlib.net/~colmmacc/category/niagara/ <-
[08:24] <ajmitch> it's a little slow being easter
[08:24] <fabbione> yeah i can imagine
[08:24] <ajmitch> thanks
[08:25] <fabbione> \sh: i am sure you will.. you can be a strong head ;)
[08:25] <ajmitch> that will help a lot, I think :)
[08:25] <fabbione> ajmitch: oh yeah
[08:25] <\sh> fabbione: dickhead you mean, right? ;)
[08:26] <fabbione> \sh: well i wanted to be nice.. you know :P
[08:26] <\sh> fabbione: come on...be straight :) nice people I know enough :) 
[08:27] <fabbione> \sh: ahahha dude.. you know me.. i can't be straigh on a public IRC channel or there will be a queue of lawyers outside my door ready to sue me
[08:27] <\sh> I finally start to get back to see some things more funny now....
[08:27] <\sh> fabbione: don't worry...I can't even pay a lawyer :)
[08:27] <fabbione> ahaha
[08:27] <fabbione> but others can!
[08:28] <fabbione> brb
[08:28] <neuralis> fabbione: i'll have a t2000 running ubuntu-server here in the next month, most likely 
[08:29] <fabbione> neuralis: i have mine here .. did you see the pics?
[08:29] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/office/
[08:29] <\sh> neuralis: I saw og marciels blogentry about the linuxexpo :) and how you made a fool out of him :)
[08:29] <fabbione> i still need to add the last changes to it
[08:29] <fabbione> but that's basically the setup
[08:29] <neuralis> fabbione: haha, love the leather jacket in the empty office :)
[08:29] <neuralis> \sh: nah, it was all in good fun
[08:30] <\sh> neuralis: I know :) how was it anyways...looked really huge this fair
[08:31] <fabbione> neuralis: i am running even ubuntu-desktop on the T2000 :) with vnc..
[08:31] <fabbione> neuralis: a 24 CPU's desktop is kind of nice :)
[08:31] <fabbione> anyway.. brb
[08:31] <ajmitch> neuralis: nice, what are you going to be doing with that?
[08:31] <neuralis> fabbione: i'm getting a bit envious here.. mine will only be 8-core
[08:32] <neuralis> \sh: i didn't like it. didn't see anything interesting, really.
[08:32] <neuralis> ajmitch: mail+web+shell for all the university's student groups, currently handled by a farm of wacky hardware that's getting difficult to manage.
[08:33] <\sh> neuralis: oh...and how was og in person? I really envy you that you finally met him :) 
[08:33] <ajmitch> neuralis: nice, I've got 4 of them to get running at uni
[08:34] <ajmitch> (eventually)
[08:34] <neuralis> ajmitch: yeah, we're getting our feet wet with this one, and will then consider getting more
[08:34] <neuralis> ajmitch: the performance seems to be a bit underwhelming in comparison to opterons, from what i can tell
[08:34] <ajmitch> depends on the workload
[08:35] <ajmitch> my home box is probably faster in a number of cases
[08:35] <neuralis> \sh: i only chatted with him for a few minutes, and i hadn't spoken to him before, so i can't tell you much more than that he seemed like a really nice guy
[08:35] <ajmitch> except it doesn't have quite as much RAM
[08:36] <\sh> neuralis: well...he entered the ubuntu community just because he read an article about ubuntu from me on the planet...funny thing :)
[08:36] <fabbione> neuralis: 8 cores = 32 CPU
[08:36] <fabbione> neuralis: mine has 6 cores
[08:37] <neuralis> \sh: that's pretty cool.
[08:37] <\sh> btw....is anyone familiar with kamions cdimage scripts? I'm just fighting with them
[08:39] <neuralis> fabbione: hm. how does that work? i thought it was 1 real cpu (chip), up to 8 cores, each running up to 4 parallel threads, no?
[08:40] <fabbione> neuralis: 1 real CPU that comes in 3 model. 4/6/8 cores. each core is 4 threads, but the OS see each thread as one CPU
[08:42] <neuralis> fabbione: right, like intel's HT. i thought sun had a 3-CPU model T2000 out, so when you said 24 CPUs, i thought 24 cores.
[08:42] <fabbione> nope
[08:43] <fabbione> it's only 1 CPU
[08:43] <fabbione> the T1 is not SMP
[08:43] <fabbione> you can't plug more than one T1 in a box
[08:43] <neuralis> fabbione: also, i have some cooler hardware in the office, but nothing nearly as cool as your stuff at home.
[08:43] <fabbione> the T2 will override that
[08:43] <fabbione> T2 is due to 2007 
[08:43] <neuralis> fabbione: ah, got it.
[08:43] <fabbione> with 16 cores and SMP
[08:44] <Lathiat> whats the t2000 for?
[08:44] <neuralis> fabbione: i even have the 1U keyboard/mouse unit with integrated TFT ;)
[08:44] <Lathiat> like, development, or?
[08:44] <fabbione> neuralis: i will get that next week :P
[08:45] <fabbione> neuralis: i have another 2/3 full boxes of stuff to take
[08:45] <fabbione> neuralis: i didn't have time to go and fetch them
[08:45] <ajmitch> Lathiat: nethack, I think
[08:45] <fabbione> Lathiat: it's the model name
[08:46] <neuralis> fabbione: very nice.
[08:46] <Lathiat> fabbione: i know.. like.. do you have it for developemtn or actual use or?
[08:46] <Lathiat> im jealous :)
[08:47] <fabbione> Lathiat: development
[08:47] <Lathiat> fabbione: cool
[08:52] <neuralis> fabbione: this was my old testing rack: http://solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu/~krstic/old-office/
[08:54] <fabbione> neuralis: neat
[08:55] <fabbione> also the c35xx.. that one is nice :)
[08:55] <neuralis> 3500xl
[08:55] <fabbione> oh there is a 36xx below..
[08:55] <fabbione> yeah
[08:55] <neuralis> >:)
[08:55] <fabbione> it's gigabit
[08:55] <neuralis> yep
[08:56] <neuralis> had a lot of trouble with it, though -- doesnt't support VLAN IDs over 1000
[08:56] <fabbione> but i can use the 2Gb SAN switch to do IP :P
[08:56] <neuralis> s/t't/'t/
[08:56] <fabbione> neuralis: afaik none of the Cisco switches do
[08:56] <fabbione> 1000 is the upper limit
[08:56] <neuralis> fabbione: they most certainly do.
[08:56] <neuralis> fabbione: nope.
[08:57] <fabbione> hmm ok
[08:57] <fabbione> did you try a more recent version of the software?
[08:57] <neuralis> yes, but i think they never landed the functionality into the ios for this switch.
[08:57] <fabbione> bugger
[08:58] <neuralis> which was a little bit difficult, given that my outside fiber feed requires the use of vlans 1048-1051
[09:00] <fabbione> eh
[09:04] <fabbione> mdz: you around?
[09:04] <mdz> fabbione: barely
[09:05] <fabbione> mdz: ok :) any objection for a UVF exception for silo-installer? from 1.02 to 1.03. There are only translation updates.
[09:05] <mdz> fabbione: none
[09:05] <fabbione> mdz: thanks
[09:08] <neuralis> fabbione: can you post whatever instructions you sent to colmacc somewhere?
[09:08] <fabbione> neuralis: there were no instructions at all. just a reinstall.. he was unlucky enough to install while archive was not installable
[09:08] <fabbione> and the system was left inconsistent
[09:09] <ajmitch> and the netboot fun? it has to be done with rarp & tftp?
[09:09] <fabbione> yes
[09:09] <fabbione> like any other sparc
[09:09] <ajmitch> ok
[09:09] <fabbione> he just didn't know OBP at all
[09:09] <fabbione> probably the only difference with the new OBP is tftp bradcasting
[09:09] <fabbione> so what you do is:
[09:10] <fabbione> boot net0:$ipaddressoftftpserver
[09:10] <fabbione> where net0 is the interface is 0
[09:10] <fabbione> so change it if you don't use that one
[09:10] <fabbione> but i do run tftp-hpa here
[09:10] <fabbione> and it works just fine
[09:10] <neuralis> strange that he had problems, then.
[09:11] <ajmitch> thanks
[09:12] <\sh> hmm...if I have all files from archive.ubuntu.com for i386 (debs, and the installer files in dists/) I should be able to run build-image-set without any problems, right?
[09:12] <fabbione> neuralis: not really.. archive for dapper is uninstallable sometimes
[09:13] <_ion> glatzor: ICMP destination unreachable
[09:13] <\sh> or do i need also this conf.sh stuff from debian-cd?
[09:13] <neuralis> fabbione: i meant with tftpp-hpa
[09:13] <fabbione> neuralis: well probably tftp-hpa doesn't answer broadcast requests..
[09:13] <fabbione> neuralis: so the OBP needs to be told where to download the image
[09:13] <neuralis> i see.
[09:14] <glatzor> _ion: hi, would like to share with me the steps that are required to get the hal library running?
[09:20] <mendred> hi is there any way to NOT use vga16fb with usplash? i want it to load radeonfb instead
[09:20] <glatzor> There is no way to search for strings in rosetta?
[09:21] <_ion> glatzor: Sorry, i'm very tired now. I'll post the instructions as soon as i have some energy.
[09:21] <glatzor> _ion: no problem. 
[09:21] <glatzor> mendred: this is a development only channel
[09:22] <glatzor> Please ask your question at #ubuntu
[09:23] <mendred> glatzor: sorry abt that..did that..have been hunting for an answer for days now..so thats why posted here..
[09:24] <glatzor> no  problem. you don't see much acitivity on this channel at weekends either. 
[09:25] <mendred> incidentally are there any plans of using upower in ubuntu in the future?
[10:45] <mdke> morning Kamion, happy easter
[10:45] <\sh> happy easter kamion :) 
[10:53] <Kamion> morning, happy Easter
[10:59] <\sh> Kamion: just fighting with your cdimage scripts and debian-cd....
[11:05] <Keybuk> Kamion: happy easter
[11:08] <fabbione> hey Keybuk 
[11:09] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[11:09] <Tonio_> Keybuk: do you have any plans for the vpn modules and network-manager ?
[11:09] <neuralis> Tonio_: not for dapper.
[11:10] <Tonio_> Keybuk: I tested them and it seems to work fine, so having them at least in universe could be interesting
[11:10] <Tonio_> neuralis: what about universe in that case ?
[11:15] <Kamion> \sh: ... waiting for you to ask me a question ...
[11:15] <fabbione> Kamion: perhaps he just likes to fight :
[11:15] <fabbione> :P
[11:16] <\sh> Kamion: ah later...when I finally found out what update-local-packages is doing :)
[11:17] <\sh> and why it's not working :)
[11:17] <Kamion> you can comment it out if you don't have any local packages, if you like
[11:18] <Keybuk> Tonio_: send patches; in particular I believe the VPN stuff doesn't work because we don't run bind9
[11:18] <\sh> ah thx :) that would be my last try actually :)
[11:24] <Tonio_> Keybuk: concerning the vpn stuff, I was able to connect to my company's openvpn server, quite easily
[11:25] <Tonio_> Keybuk: I don't run a bind9 server too....
[11:25] <Tonio_> Keybuk: the only difference was maybe I didn't use nm-applet, but knetworkmanager
[11:27] <Tonio_> Keybuk: I used the packages we can find on revu, I don't think there are specific patches in them....
[11:33] <Kamion> \sh: try patch-243 that I just committed; should make it not care if $CDIMAGE_ROOT/local/packages is missing
[11:35] <fabbione> ssh sunfire -X
[11:35] <fabbione> shell-init: error retrieving current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: No such file or directory
[11:35] <fabbione>    Linux sunfire 2.6.15-20-sparc64-smp #1 SMP Sun Apr 16 10:57:49 CEST 2006 sparc64 GNU/Linux
[11:35] <fabbione> ???
[11:36] <\sh> Kamion: cool...but germinate is now complaining about a missing file...
[11:37] <\sh> dists/dapper/restricted/binary-i386/Packages.gz'
[11:37] <Tonio_> Keybuk: may I ask you what are those dns problems you find using vpn modules ?
[11:38] <\sh> Kamion: after Downloading dapper_restricted_Packages file ... a traceback ... think there is a missing file, or I'm missing something
[11:39] <Keybuk> Tonio_: the fact that any custom dns the vpn needs won't be saved
[11:39] <Kamion> \sh: you sure your mirror's complete?
[11:40] <Tonio_> Keybuk: as far as I know, this is an openvpn limitation
[11:40] <Tonio_> Keybuk: you can read the documentation on that point, it only works with windows clients
[11:40] <\sh> jesus no :)
[11:40] <\sh> as I said I was missing something :)
[11:41] <Kamion> I should probably make cdimage be a bit more robust against restricted being missing, mind you
[11:41] <Tonio_> Keybuk: I had the same problem using the command line openvpn client here...
[11:41] <Kamion> feel free to file bugs on the ubuntu-cdimage product if you like; I'll be out for most of today
[11:42] <Tonio_> Keybuk: technically, the vpn component for network-manager gives the same result here that it gives with the CLI client...
[11:43] <\sh> Kamion: the debian-installer dir was missing
[11:43] <\sh> Kamion: I used the plain debmirror and some hand-ish ncftp downloads :)
[11:43] <Tonio_> Keybuk: that's why I don't think there are issues with it actually... limitations are due to the server
[11:43] <\sh> the rsync is actually quite slow...and too much for my diskspace :)
[11:44] <jpatrick> Kamion: can you demote kmediafactory to multiverse? Thank you
[11:44] <Tonio_> Keybuk: http://openvpn.net/archive/openvpn-users/2005-02/msg00324.html here is a topic talking about that limitation...
[11:45] <\sh> hmmm..but now it should be complete
[11:46] <Tonio_> jpatrick: just reviewed kscope, little problem with the kdepotpath patch ;) it is incomplete :)
[11:46] <jpatrick> Tonio_: oh, dear, a tag late
[11:47] <\sh> damnit grmpf...no missed again something
[11:47] <Kamion> \sh: ah right
[11:48] <Kamion> jpatrick: done
[11:49] <jpatrick> Kamion: thanks, will it rebuild automagically?
[11:49] <Kamion> jpatrick: dunno; if it doesn't, ask infinity for help
[11:49] <Kamion> I don't have buildd privileges
[11:49] <jpatrick> ok
[11:50] <\sh> Kamion: debmirror is not mirrorring the udebs, right?
[12:27] <Kamion> \sh: it does if you include main/debian-installer and restricted/debian-installer in --section
[12:27] <\sh> Kamion: ah...ok...i found one error..which is not raised by me...just tested it by hand :)
[12:28] <\sh> Kamion: run-germinate....it stops because it doesn't find the restricted stuff in the scratch dir, when I copy the files manually from ftp/dists/dapper/restricted to the correspondant scratch dir, and then run-germinate it works...
[12:29] <\sh> Kamion: doing it again via build-image-set, it failes, just because i think it deletes the whole scratch dir
[12:33] <Kamion> please file a bug with a transcript of the error
[12:34] <\sh> ubuntu-cdimage was the sourcepackage, right?
[12:37] <Kamion> product, not source package
[12:37] <Kamion> i.e. https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-cdimage/+filebug
[12:37] <\sh> yeah..product :) got it :)
[12:38] <\sh> well, executing run-germinate manually everything is fine :)
[12:47] <robertc> Keybuk: around ?
[12:47] <robertc> (or anyone familiar with the initramfs)
[12:47] <sivang> nre all
[12:47] <sivang> re, even
[12:47] <robertc> hi svang
[12:48] <sivang> hey robertc , what's cracking? :)
[12:48] <sivang> lifeless: ah, that's better :)
[12:48] <\sh> happy easter sivang, if there is something like that in israel :) 
[12:48] <lifeless> well, as I have initramfs segfaulting, I'm not sure it is :0
[12:49] <sivang> \sh: Stephan! It's been long, yes we have Passover , but not as much holiday as I wished to hack on stuff :) 
[12:50] <sivang> \sh: is everything alright? how are you doing? you've been away for a while..
[12:51] <ajmitch> evening lifeless 
[12:51] <lifeless> hi ajmitch 
[12:51] <sivang> happy easter ajmitch , and all
[12:51] <lifeless> jbailey: I don't suppose you're up ?
[12:51] <lifeless> who else can I heckle.
[12:53] <ajmitch> sivang: and happy easter to you also :)
[12:53] <sivang> thanks ;)
[12:58] <lifeless> is devicemapper builtin or not ?
[12:59] <lifeless> ahha
[12:59] <lifeless> dm-mod was not loaded
[12:59] <lifeless> so evms fails
[12:59] <lifeless> so my root fs was awol
[01:06] <Keybuk> lifeless: filesystem uses both evms and dm?
[01:06] <lifeless> evms uses dm
[01:06] <Keybuk> doesn't the evms local-top script load dm-mod?
[01:06] <lifeless> apparently not
[01:06] <Keybuk> if root=/dev/evms/* anyway
[01:06] <lifeless> its timing out on 'waiting for root file system'
[01:06] <lifeless> dm_mod isn't in /proc/modules
[01:07] <lifeless> if I modprobe it and run evms_activate, its there, but I need to pivot manually
[01:07] <\sh> Kamion: how can I see a progress for the cdbuild?
[01:07] <lifeless> which I haven't figure out how to do yet ;)
[01:07] <Keybuk> lifeless: what's your root= ?
[01:07] <lifeless> /dev/evms/lvm2/roblvm/root
[01:07] <Keybuk> lifeless: just press ^D
[01:07] <lifeless> hmm
[01:08] <lifeless> different this time
[01:08] <lifeless> dm_mod is loaded. (wasn't on  my previous test)
[01:08] <lifeless> .nodes is missing from /dev/evms
[01:08] <lifeless> evms_activate populated it
[01:09] <lifeless> ctrl-D - seems to be booting.
[01:09] <lifeless> what can I do to help here ?
[01:09] <Kamion> \sh: tail -f the log file
[01:10] <\sh> Kamion: which one? 
[01:10] <lifeless> bug 34209 has similar symptoms to me
[01:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34209 in linux-source-2.6.15 linux-image-2.6.15-17-k7 "2.6.15-17-k7 doesn't boot on Athlon 2000+" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34209
[01:10] <lifeless> but no details
[01:11] <\sh> Kamion: ubuntu-daily-20060416.11.log this is the latest and tells me "syncing ubuntu mirror" :)
[01:11] <Kamion> \sh: mirror sync progress goes in rsync.log
[01:11] <\sh> Kamion: yes...but the cd is building :) and I don't find anything in the logfile about it :)
[01:12] <lifeless> Keybuk: ok that booted fine. Appears to be that evms_activate is just not being run.
[01:12] <\sh> log.list2cds?
[01:12] <Keybuk> lifeless: that's run in the evms local-top script
[01:12] <Keybuk> scripts/local-top/evms
[01:12] <Kamion> \sh: well it should all go in whatever the current log file is, I don't know what else to tell you
[01:12] <lifeless> Keybuk: I'm happy to do multiple reboots now to help debug
[01:12] <Kamion> look at /proc/whatever/fd for the build-image-set process to find the log file
[01:12] <lifeless> but this is my server, so I'm happy to do them *now*, but not once I get logged in and happy again.
[01:13] <\sh> Kamion: i found something in log.list2cds :) 
[01:13] <\sh> -- Starting to add packages to the CDs ...
[01:13] <\sh> CD 1 will only be filled with 0 bytes ...
[01:13] <\sh> lol
[01:13] <lifeless> should I reboot and use break=top ?
[01:13] <Kamion> then something is wrong between germinate output and debian-cd
[01:13] <Kamion> I can't tell you exactly where - you'll need to dig
[01:14] <\sh> i'm digging already :)
[01:14] <Keybuk> lifeless: I'm virtually not here now, I'm afraid
[01:14] <lifeless> Keybuk: yah, I realise its sunday
[01:14] <\sh> but I think it has to do with the error i reported
[01:14] <lifeless> Keybuk: I've added all I know to the bug report I mentioned before
[01:15] <lifeless> and if someone makes a date with me, I'm happy to do a debug session on this
[01:15] <Kamion> \sh: update to my fix - you should have mail
[01:16] <sivang> Kamion: is it you I need to bug in order to get permission for someone to upload on my behalf a first HUB package?
[01:16] <sivang> (I know we're in beta freeze, but I want this to get uploaded to universe)
[01:16] <\sh> Kamion: cool :) I'll update :)
[01:17] <Kamion> sivang: no, any MOTU can do it
[01:17] <notlifeless> Keybuk: thanks for your time - appreciate it
[01:17] <sivang> Kamion: okay, thanks.
[01:17] <_ion> Cool, /me just noticed breezy already contains the version of update-manager that allows one to upgrade to dapper.
[01:17] <Kamion> sivang: beta freeze is not all that relevant to new packages in universe; even if we decide it is, I can always not let it out of NEW until it's OK
[01:18] <sivang> Kamion: okay, good to know then.
[02:41] <\sh> Kamion: looks like he didn't create the *.packages file in scratch/ubuntu/daily/tmp/dapper-i386/
[02:48] <\sh> argl
[02:48] <\sh> boot-i386 is only running on i386, right?
[03:01] <siretart> how to activate the ubuntu-installer's 'expert mode'? I'd like to choose my mirror, and I find it unobvious to enable that
[03:02] <Kamion> press F6 for other options, press F6 again to switch between normal and expert mode
[03:02] <Kamion> (in gfxboot)
[03:02] <siretart> aah, ok, then that's too obvious for me :)
[03:05] <bddebian> Morning
[03:29] <sivang> morning bddebian 
[03:29] <sivang> bddebian: hows' easter? :)
[03:32] <bddebian> Heya sivang, just got up :-)
[03:32] <bddebian> How about you?
[03:34] <sivang> bddebian: fine, already at work, had a terrible train travel this morning :)
[03:34] <sivang> bddebian: people were stuffed 3 times of what the train could relaly carry
[03:35] <sivang> bddebian: we drove all way down to the south with the over weight alarm screaming :)
[03:35] <bddebian> Ugh
[03:35] <sivang> yeah
[03:51] <Tonio_> slomo_: thanks for the yakuake diffstat ;) didn't have time to attach it myself ;)
[03:51] <slomo_> np
[03:53] <Tonio_> slomo_: I don't have the same diffstat than you.....
[03:53] <Tonio_> which file did you apply it on ?
[03:53] <slomo_> i took your debdiff and made a diffstat out of it
[03:53] <Tonio_> slomo_: 16 files changed, 761 insertions(+) I only have this
[03:54] <slomo_> huh?
[03:54] <slomo_> do you use diff -Naur old-version new-version | diffstat ?
[03:54] <slomo_> don't forget the -r parameter
[03:54] <Tonio_> ...... I missed the good original version, sorry ;)
[03:54] <slomo_> np :)
[03:55] <Tonio_> old-version wasn't the good file ;) now I have the same than you ;)
[03:56] <\sh> sollte eigentlich auch unter dapper laufen :)
[03:57] <\sh> bah..wrong channel
[03:58] <slomo_> \sh: oh... hi stephan :)
[03:59] <\sh> hey slomo
[04:07] <joelbryan> Hi sivang!
[04:08] <joelbryan> sivang: your working on Home User Backup right?
[04:08] <sivang> joelbryan: yes sir
[04:09] <joelbryan> sivang: please check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHomeBackup
[04:09] <joelbryan> sivang: it's a backup tool for ubuntu, it's quite simple.
[04:10] <sivang> joelbryan: hmm, is this an already ready code?
[04:11] <joelbryan> sivang: yes, ubuntu-home-backup-0.1.tar.gz
[04:11] <sivang> joelbryan: have you checked out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup before ?
[04:11] <jpatrick> looks like Kubuntu's Keep program
[04:12] <joelbryan> sivang: yes, I like the idea. that's the model I used.
[04:12] <slomo_> cool now we have two backup programs ;)
[04:13] <sivang> hrm, yeah 
[04:13] <sivang> well, I'd hope to more collaboration, I'm sure you did not try to contact me about that..
[04:13] <sivang> it seems we did some of the stuff twice, which is a shame. How do you handle multivolume backups?
[04:13] <sivang> joelbryan: nonetheless is looks very cool and slick
[04:13] <sivang> :)
[04:14] <sivang> oh, I see you used perl , bash , C , mine is using only python actually.
[04:14] <joelbryan> sivang: do you have a release?
[04:15] <joelbryan> sivang: FTP is still WIP
[04:16] <sivang> joelbryan: Well, I am going to make one today or tomorrow :)
[04:16] <joelbryan> and got really screwed up with "new files only", I'm using cp -you with that.
[04:16] <sivang> joelbryan: are you handleing multi volume backups? error checking for cdrecrod status and midphase failures?
[04:16] <sivang> joelbryan: what do you think of python? ;-)
[04:17] <joelbryan> sivang: it's cool! very nice PL.
[04:17] <_ion> I used to think python rules, but then i learned ruby and realized how ugly python really is. :-)
[04:17] <joelbryan> sivang: everything in it is using default, like nautilus-cd-burn etc.
[04:17] <sivang> _ion: I think it's exactly the opposite :)
[04:18] <sivang> joelbryan: ah, I'm using cdrecord directly
[04:19] <joelbryan> sivang: I like to work on collaboration with this project, just found out that you made the HomeUserBackup too.
[04:21] <joelbryan> sivang: what multi volume choices do you have?
[04:22] <joelbryan> sivang: what mediums do you use?
[04:26] <sivang> joelbryan: yes, that would be cool, could use some feedback and help from another person , we could explore borrowing and exchanging ideas , or maybe merge/translate stuff to python, if you'd forgive my python zealoutness :)
[04:28] <joelbryan> yes, me too, I'm zealous about ruby, I'm on the process of writing a GUI GTK+ Glade like app that generates Ruby codes
[04:33] <joelbryan> someone stole my python book back in college, that's just stop me from thinking about it. anyways, just got really interested with Dive into Python, it's very cool docu.
[04:34] <sivang> joelbryan: sorry, was on the phone
[04:34] <sivang> joelbryan: yes, it's a very cool book to learn python from :)
[04:35] <sivang> joelbryan: so anyways, currently I support all the disc medias, and USB keys (although USB/Extenral HDs ahs not been tested fullly)
[04:36] <joelbryan> Is your app very similar to the drawings?
[04:36] <joelbryan> I mean, the drawings in the Design category in HomeUserBackup
[04:37] <sivang> joelbryan: I use dar as the backend archiver, a very secure and proven piece of program - http://dar.linux.free.fr/
[04:37] <sivang> joelbryan: ah, well, I should put new screenshots :) based on the design, but to accomodate the implementatio I had taken my route with regards to the desgin as Ubuntu's resident UI specialist was too busy to add more then that drawings he did :)
[04:38] <sivang> joelbryan: I hope to get a pakcage into the archive the next coming hours, so stay tuned I'll ping you up to get it and test drive :)
[04:39] <sivang> joelbryan: realizing backup archive creation is a task too critical to be handleing in a such short time on my own, I Set foot to use dar instead.
[04:39] <joelbryan> sivang: how do I create .deb package with my archive too?
[04:40] <sivang> joelbryan: I must say I have achived rather nice integration with it and my python frondend, but it wasn't without lots of trial and error and hard work. Bascially, you can guess my program is using other programs undeneath to do the real job.
[04:41] <sivang> joelbryan: You need to create a debian package out of it, which is different per archive. I see you'er using autotools and GTK, ask around in u-motu about CDBS for that, there are arelady packaging stanzas for that AFAIK
[04:41] <joelbryan> Oh I love GTK+
[04:42] <sivang> joelbryan: join #ubuntu-motu
[04:42] <joelbryan> rocks my world!
[04:42] <joelbryan> ok
[04:42] <sivang> joelbryan: here as well :)
[04:44] <sivang> joelbryan: also, I still don't have FTP backup support, I concentrated manily on medium backups for now, since most newb users wouldn't want or use ftp backups.
[04:49] <joelbryan> yes, I think I'll hide the ftp widget in my app too, having a hard time implimenting it.
[04:52] <sivang> joelbryan: so do you support multi volume backups?
[04:52] <joelbryan> sivang: I'll collaborate on your app too when your release is ready.
[04:52] <sivang> joelbryan: cool! :-)
[04:53] <joelbryan> sivang: tell me about multi volume backup?, got no idea what it is.
[04:53] <sivang> joelbryan: ah, when you're backup is more then one medium in size, you need to split it to slices and back each one to a different cd
[04:54] <joelbryan> I think nautilus-cd-burn has that feature
[04:54] <joelbryan> I depend on it
[04:54] <sivang> joelbryan: for differential snapshots, I have one diff CD (which is remained multi session) where you add a snapshot ontop of the other  per each new diff against master snapshot I create.
[04:55] <joelbryan> I use mkiso, err.. does mkiso included on ubuntu main?
[04:55] <sivang> joelbryan: sort of a backup CD kit I create for the user :)
[04:55] <sivang> joelbryan: yes
[04:55] <sivang> joelbryan: I'm using it as well, but I don't depend on n-c-b , you could use n-c-b to create the iso no?
[04:55] <sivang> joelbryan: (instead of directly using mkisofs)
[04:56] <zyga> is there any recent unusual SDL bug activity?
[04:56] <joelbryan> sivang: nope, do you know how to use nautilus-cd-burn to create ISO files?
[04:57] <sivang> joelbryan: I've seen in the source somewhere it has a small API for that, I evaluated n-c-b but in order to make dependencies as smalla as I can I choose to do stuff myself instead of depdending on it. For places where n-c-b might not be installed, or required to not be installed.
[05:02] <joelbryan> sivang: I like to use n-c-b to create ISO files, but it only got --source-iso=STRING as an option.
[05:03] <sivang> joelbryan: ah, well, look at the code, it has somewhere a simple api for creating isos, as it uses it for itself to create an image of files you drop into the cd-burner nautilus window
[06:42] <bddebian> Why does packages.ubuntu.com not let you search dapper?
[06:44] <bmonty> bddebian: it works for dapper
[06:45] <bddebian> It does?
[06:45] <bmonty> yup
[06:45] <bddebian> Under contents of packages?
[06:45] <bddebian> I don't see a dapper option
[06:45] <bmonty> you can use packages.ubuntu.com/[package name] 
[06:46] <bmonty> or you can pick dapper from the search form
[06:46] <bddebian> I want to know what is supposed to proved /etc/X11/config/cf stuff
[06:46] <bddebian> Err provide even
[06:46] <bmonty> ahh
[06:47] <bmonty> I see what you are saying
[06:47] <bddebian> :-)
[06:47] <bmonty> same problem here :)
[06:48] <bmonty> bddebian: I guess you could use dpkg
[06:49] <Chipzz> bmonty: not it does not
[06:49] <bddebian> But only for what I have installed right?
[06:50] <bmonty> yeah
[06:50] <Chipzz> the "Search the contents of packages" section does not allow you to select dapper
[06:50] <bmonty> Chipzz: yup
[06:50] <Chipzz> which can be pretty annoying ;P
[06:50] <bddebian> Yep :-)
[06:52] <bmonty> bddebian: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=%2Fetc%2FX11%2Fconfig&searchmode=searchfilesanddirs&case=insensitive&version=dapper&arch=i386
[06:52] <bmonty> try that :)
[06:53] <bddebian> Nice
[06:53] <bddebian> Now, who in main is going to fix those files? ;-P
[06:55] <bddebian> Ah, Malone Bug #28707
[06:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28707 in imake "ProjectRoot set incorrectly" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28707
[06:56] <bddebian> fabbione: ping?
[07:20] <fabbione> bddebian: ?
[07:21] <bddebian> fabbione: You made a comment to the bug above.  Do you know if it is going to get done?
[07:21] <fabbione> did you read my comment before asking?
[07:21] <bddebian> Yes
[07:21] <bddebian> Oh, I missed the after part :-(
[07:21] <\sh> lol
[07:21] <fabbione> so what is not clear about "We will fix it after dapper"?
[07:22] <bddebian> So what are supposed to do about packages in Universe that are using /foo/X11R6/bar that break?
[07:22] <bddebian> Move the files in rules?
[07:22] <\sh> Kamion: I hope it's not an easter egg, but do i need the source files (.dsc,.tar.gz, eventually .diff.gz if not native) for the cdbuild mechanism?
[07:23] <fabbione> bddebian: yes. fixing that bug makes half of main unbuildable
[07:23] <fabbione> and in most cases apps still do the wrong thing
[07:23] <fabbione> even with that path fixed
[07:23] <bddebian> Fruck, OK
[07:23] <bddebian> Should I just not touch those packages?  Such as xclip, etc?
[07:24] <fabbione> fix them
[07:24] <fabbione> or leave them broken
[07:24] <bddebian> How?  They run xmkmf in the rules so they pick up that path
[07:24] <bddebian> cp/mv in rules?
[07:24] <fabbione> how it's up to you
[07:26] <bddebian> This is the part I still don't get.  I keep hearing how we don't want to stray too far from Debian, then folks suggest fairly radical changes..
[07:27] <bddebian> I'm not whining, I'm just never sure what to do.  Seems like when I step too far I get swatted with the clue bat :-)
[07:28] <\sh> bddebian: please...it's universe, if you don't want to fix it, leave it and wait for dapper+1, or fix it, and merge/sync it later in dapper+1 
[07:28] <fabbione> \sh: ++
[07:29] <\sh> that's what I said long time ago, when this debian ubuntu bla started..we have to make sure, that the packages are working, or we focus on debian, and stay close, and not better
[07:32] <bddebian> I'm game either way I just want to "do the right thing"
[07:33] <\sh> there is no "right thing"...decide for yourself...if you think it's worth it, do it, give the user a working package...if you think it's a waste of time for this package, and it will be solved later on, leave it, forget it, drink a beer :)
[07:34] <\sh> I mean, that's universe, 30 people against thousands of packages...I bet, the packages win :)
[07:34] <bddebian> :-)
[07:37] <\sh> bddebian: actually it's the real life...you can go left or go right...there is no middle way...one way or the other, someone will bash you or something will happen...you only have the duty to face the consequences :)
[07:38] <bddebian> heh
[07:38] <\sh> "You already made the choice, you are only here, to understand why you made it"
[07:41] <\sh> and to be honest, to create a live cd for gentoo was much easier then this cdimage/germinate/debian-cd thingy here..but I will crack it...and finally understand :)
[07:41] <bddebian> :-)
[07:53] <bddebian> Time to go, thanks \sh, fabbione
[07:56] <zyga> \sh: nice speech!
[07:58] <\sh> hehe...now I can say it without being burned by someone with the flamethrower :)
[07:58] <\sh> couple weeks ago, I said the same, and I got burned :)
[07:59] <highvoltage> win 20
[07:59] <_ion> lose 15
[07:59] <highvoltage> hehe
[07:59] <\sh> actually it's 18kg i lost :)
[08:00] <highvoltage> _ion++ [ an optimist] 
[08:00] <zyga> \sh: getting burned is why you are doing it in the first place
[08:00] <zyga> you wanted to get burned... bla bla bla ;] 
[08:00] <\sh> zyga: I don't do it in the moment anymore :) I don't have the rights anymore :)
[08:01] <_ion> My weight has been 62.51.5 kg for several years. :-)
[08:01] <zyga> chmod +s \sh
[08:01] <\sh> :)
[08:02] <zyga> bah
[08:02] <\sh> my weight was 80...I lost 18 makes 62 now...bei 180cm height..I'm the Kate Moss of all Ubunteros :)
[08:03] <highvoltage> zyga: a kernel for what?
[08:03] <\sh> hurd 5.0
[08:03] <zyga> highvoltage, \sh: heh, no :)
[08:03] <zyga> right now for quemu running i386
[08:04] <zyga> :)
[08:04] <zyga> just for fun as someone said
[08:04] <zyga> it's not unix like and will never ever be able to run any C code 
[08:04] <zyga> so wish me luck ;-)
[08:04] <giftnudel> \sh: i'm of the same height, and I weigh even less ;)
[08:04] <fabbione> bah you all suck
[08:04] <fabbione> i am 1:80 and 120 KG
[08:05] <fabbione> that's probably why they call me big fabio
[08:05] <zyga> I'm 85 and 176 or so... geez ASL on #-devel :D
[08:05] <fabbione> you are 85 years old.. and weight 176kg?
[08:05] <fabbione> dude.. congratulation
[08:05] <zyga> hehe ;] 
[08:05] <zyga> rotfl ;] 
[08:06] <zyga> I weight 85 kilos if that wasn't explicit enough
[08:06] <\sh> fabbione: wait until you come to germany...I'm trying to go back to 75-80 kgs...it's my best weight..now I'm feeling terrible
[08:06] <fabbione> \sh: i am gaining a lot of weight because i did quit smoking
[08:06] <fabbione> \sh: i was 105 when we did met
[08:07] <\sh> fabbione: you did what? quit smoking? how can you? smoking is good against this "I want chocolate" feeling :) 
[08:07] <fabbione> \sh: yes... i did it...
[08:08] <fabbione> it's about 2 months now
[08:08] <fabbione> + one week
[08:08] <\sh> congrats :)
[08:08] <fabbione> it's damn hard
[08:08] <zyga> fabbione: keep up the good thing
[08:08] <fabbione> i still wake up in the morning with the "ME WANTS SMOKE MUCH NOW IMMEDIATLY"
[08:09] <fabbione> but they say it goes away after a few years
[08:09] <\sh> serious...that's good :) I stopped 4 years ago for 3 months...and after those 3 months...I couldn't help myself and started again
[08:09] <\sh> fabbione: it's the all day habit
[08:09] <fabbione> yeah i knw
[08:10] <\sh> you wake up..the first thing: a cigarette and a black coffee..yummy...good for the stomach
[08:10] <fabbione> i feel 14 years old again..
[08:10] <fabbione> you want to try to smoke.. you want to try to have sex... etc..
[08:10] <_ion> sh: ICD-10 / F17.2
[08:10] <\sh> well, it steels you 2 years of your life...but damn who cares anyways ;)
[08:10] <\sh> _ion: whatever it is:)
[08:10] <fabbione> \sh: i am doing it only for my wife and kid..
[08:11] <_ion> sh: Google. ;-)
[08:11] <\sh> fabbione: do it for you...(and for your kid) wife has always the chocolate ;)
[08:12] <zyga> \sh: cheers for your elder years when you wish you didn't smoke
[08:13] <\sh> zyga: well...what elder years, when I make it 65 it's old enough...:)
[08:13] <zyga> grampa \sh why are you so yellow and making hissy sounds
[08:13] <zyga> ah, it's because I didn't care about the last two years of my life and brats like you ;-)
[08:14] <zyga> (no offence)
[08:14] <\sh> because, son, I ate those yummy gitanes tobacco roles :)
[08:14] <zyga> parents in law are smoking like a chimney machine
[08:14] <zyga> I hate that
[08:14] <_ion> http://www.visualsunlimited.com/images/watermarked/227/227359.jpg
[08:15] <zyga> heh
[08:15] <zyga> a bad behaviour from xchat with useless link handling
[08:15] <\sh> and now you are using kde and konversation and it just works :)
[08:16] <zyga> no, I'm using xchat-gnome and it just works :-)
[08:17] <\sh> bleh :)
[08:18] <zyga> hehe
[08:20] <\sh> http://code.google.com/soc/ Ubuntu is missing..who is responsible? :)
[08:25] <Chipzz> who is the mysql maintainer? :P
[08:26] <\sh> mysql AB :) 
[08:34] <zyga> hmm
[08:34] <zyga> a widget has just turned green 
[08:34] <zyga> has anyone experienced something like this?
[08:34] <zyga> using ubuntu theme obviously
[08:35] <fabbione> zyga: what widget?
[08:35] <zyga> fabbione: a standard gtk+ button
[08:35] <zyga> in banshee, c# itunes clone
[08:35] <zyga> after giving the button mouse hover it turned back normal
[08:36] <zyga> but it was fully green before that
[08:36] <fabbione> i think there is a very very fishy bug in gtk
[08:36] <zyga> so this has happened before
[08:36] <zyga> the button turned green after becoming insentsitive
[08:37] <zyga> it was focused AFAIR
[08:37] <zyga> but I'm not sure
[08:37] <zyga> I removed one song from the playlist
[08:37] <zyga> and it got disabled (the write CD button is active as long as you have selection handy)
[08:37] <zyga> BAH!
[08:37] <zyga> now it's blue!!!
[08:38] <zyga> screenshot
[08:38] <zyga> where the heck is the screenshot tool?
[08:39] <zyga> half of the button is normal again
[08:39] <zyga> got it
[08:41] <zyga> http://ubuntu.suxx.pl/2006--1/bugs/fishy-gtk-bug-with-widgets-color-change
[08:43] <fabbione> wow... Bolero from Ravel
[08:43] <fabbione> !
[08:43] <zyga> :)
[08:43] <fabbione> i still have the LP somewhere in italy!
[08:44] <zyga> not everyone is listening to trashy modern music :)
[08:44] <fabbione> i don't
[08:44] <fabbione> i listen to a 20 years old heavy metal :)
[08:44] <fabbione> almost.. 20
[08:44] <zyga> I like classics and movie scores
[08:45] <fabbione> pink floyd, hard rock, heavy metal..
[08:45] <fabbione> it depends what i need to hack usually ;)
[08:46] <fabbione> eheh
[08:46] <fabbione> we should make radio.ubuntu.com
[08:46] <fabbione> where we can send our feeds.. or something
[08:46] <fabbione> but that would require some fees i think
[08:46] <zyga> :)
[08:47] <fabbione> for copyright and crap
[08:47] <desrt> seems like a good way to get a smackdown notice from the song police
[08:47] <zyga> we should make iUbuntu or .Ubuntu
[08:47] <fabbione> exactly
[08:47] <zyga> that would just kick the linux distro world straight int the ass
[08:47] <zyga> (p2p manner would be cool)
[08:47] <fabbione> p2p won't save you anyway
[08:47] <fabbione> the problem is not how you redistribute it
[08:48] <fabbione> but that you are actually redistributing it
[08:48] <zyga> like every server install could ask the administrator: would you like to provide %1 of your resources for community 
[08:48] <zyga> blah blah kind of thing
[08:48] <zyga> fabbione: I'm not talking about the radio thing
[08:48] <zyga> I know that music needs fees
[08:48] <zyga> but a distributed .ubuntu service would be really interesting
[08:48] <fabbione> oh that super shared drive or alike?
[08:48] <zyga> even for developing the required technology on ubuntu servers for beta-testers
[08:49] <fabbione> 3 things are clashing
[08:49] <zyga> fabbione: not just that, idisk + services = .mac
[08:49] <zyga> bundled services make it worthwile
[08:49] <zyga> while
[08:49] <fabbione> i don't think there is anybody with enough time to implement something like that in our team
[08:49] <fabbione> even if there is the knowledge in the house
[08:50] <zyga> I don't know the team so I cannot say much here
[08:50] <zyga> but making lots of in house tools could be unnecessary
[08:51] <zyga> what we'd really need is the reliable, scalable and secure idisk replacement
[08:51] <zyga> the services could be foss stuff with ubuntu branding and that's just what we do
[08:51] <fabbione> yes and do you have an idea on much tech is required just to make that?
[08:51] <zyga> yes, that's really hard bit
[08:51] <fabbione> you need something like GoogleFS
[08:52] <fabbione> oh wait.. but that one is proprietary ;)
[08:52] <zyga> well someone is going to do it, and when they do they'll get the fruits
[08:53] <fabbione> if they do it fully opensourced, it will take only a few days to have it in all distros
[08:53] <fabbione> don't you think?
[08:53] <zyga> not quite
[08:53] <fabbione> it will be a metter of running the service on what platform
[08:53] <zyga> remember, the services count
[08:53] <zyga> and the services are mostly web-based or based on web tech
[08:53] <fabbione> yes but you approached only the idisk issue before...
[08:54] <zyga> so while anyone could put gnu-disk in, it' be just that
[08:54] <zyga> yes, I agree then
[08:54] <fabbione> so i am looking at one thing at a time
[08:54] <zyga> it's hard but not impossible
[08:54] <fabbione> it's already there.. just not opensourced
[08:54] <zyga> there are folks out there with brains to do it :)
[08:54] <zyga> foss folks
[08:54] <fabbione> yes
[08:55] <zyga> it's not top priority for anyone though I guess
[08:55] <fabbione> given enough trust even pigs can fly... not sure we want them to
[08:55] <zyga> hehe
[08:55] <zyga> nice quote
[08:55] <fabbione> it's not mine..
[08:55] <_ion> Thrust, you mean?
[08:55] <fabbione> _ion: yes
[08:56] <zyga> ion engines attached to pigs ... sorry it somehow matched in my mind :)
[08:56] <fabbione> zyga: that quote is from Alan Cox when somebody announced ATA66 "standard"
[08:56] <_ion> Hehe.
[08:56] <fabbione> "hey we can run IDE as twice as fast!"
[08:56] <_ion> Appropriate.
[08:57] <fabbione> and in 2006 we are still fighting with DMA and ATA1GHZ
[08:57] <zyga> sorry for my ignorance but what's wrong with ATA?
[08:57] <zyga> (especially at that time)
[08:57] <_ion> What isn't? ;-)
[08:57] <zyga> beats me 
[08:57] <fabbione> zyga: tell me something good about ATA?
[08:57] <fabbione> it's a badly designed protocol
[08:57] <zyga> I still run my baby hosted and i/o is something I don't handle yet :)
[08:58] <fabbione> it has tons of limitations and issues because when they wrote the specs, they were not clear
[08:58] <fabbione> so as of N years after
[08:58] <fabbione> you still file bugs on "Why the kernel can't enable DMA?"
[08:58] <zyga> unclear specs = lots of different implementations?
[08:58] <fabbione> zyga: yes
[08:58] <zyga> sweet :)
[08:58] <zyga> I like the linux kernel
[08:58] <fabbione> that gets down to:
[08:58] <fabbione> - poorly written BIOS
[08:59] <fabbione> - broken ATA controllers
[08:59] <fabbione> - broken ATA devices
[08:59] <zyga> I consider it the greatest available source on how to get the hardware working
[08:59] <fabbione> - sucky driver for even more sucky cheap hardwawe
[08:59] <fabbione> hardware even
[08:59] <zyga> is sata protocol-compatible with ata?
[08:59] <zyga> just curious
[09:02] <fabbione> no
[09:02] <fabbione> there are adapters with mini-chips to attach an ATA device to a SATA controller afaik
[09:02] <fabbione> old ATA = PATA (Parallel ATA)
[09:02] <fabbione> SATA = Serial ATA
[09:03] <fabbione> SATA is closer to scsi protocol somehow
[09:03] <fabbione> all these cheap abberrations will end up reimplementing SCSI at the end
[09:03] <fabbione> the only real true I/O protocol
[09:03] <zyga> then again we hit the market chooses what's cheaper 
[09:04] <zyga> or 90% of right with 10% of price is better
[09:04] <zyga> maybe 60% and 40% in this case ;-)
[09:04] <fabbione> right.. but it's all speculation at the end
[09:04] <fabbione> because for that X % better price
[09:05] <fabbione> you spend NX trying to get your hw going "fast" in DMA
[09:05] <fabbione> and stuff like that
[09:05] <fabbione> assuming that the next time you attach a device, you will not have to dismount and reconfigure the entire IDE chain
[09:05] <fabbione> because there are devices that can't live on the same IDE controller
[09:06] <fabbione> or stuff either doesn't work or it goes south 
[09:06] <zyga> fabbione: not me, the poor guys and gals who make the soft I'm running
[09:07] <zyga> maybe me in this ackward particular case but that's irrelevant, the buyers don't really see :)
[09:07] <fabbione> well but you get the general idea
[09:07] <fabbione> i also run IDE stuff..
[09:07] <fabbione> somehow i have to
[09:07] <zyga> as the bottom line let's rejoice in the fall of PATA and the rise of SATA :-)
[09:08] <fabbione> well not really.. i am saving up to buy a bunch of FC-HBA controllers :)
[09:09] <zyga> what for? (note: I'm ignorant about what that's for actually)
[09:09] <fabbione> FC-HBA are fiber controllers.. somehow similar to ethernet
[09:09] <zyga> ah
[09:09] <fabbione> but they can "speak" differnet protocols
[09:09] <fabbione> (i am making it simple now)
[09:09] <zyga> so now we wait for cheap-o-replacement of myrinet and such stuff :-)
[09:09] <fabbione> like SCSI and IP
[09:10] <fabbione> they can do up to 8Gbit/sec
[09:10] <fabbione> so basically i can get rid of networking and storage in one go
[09:10] <fabbione> and get everything centalized :)
[09:10] <zyga> just wait till the 25$ a-oem-box 10GB eth hits the street then
[09:10] <fabbione> with access ot the storage up to 200MB/sec (disk speed is the limit here)
[09:10] <fabbione> nope..
[09:10] <zyga> nice HW anyway
[09:11] <fabbione> it's not the same :)
[09:11] <fabbione> different standards..
[09:11] <zyga> yes but for the general population it'll be ohh, look 8Gb vs 10Gb
[09:11] <fabbione> 10GB Eth is still an ethernet
[09:11] <zyga> silly as that
[09:11] <fabbione> yes i know..
[09:11] <zyga> not to mention ohh look 2K$ a piece vs 25$ a piece
[09:11] <fabbione> find me a cheap 10GB switch that supports zoning/vlans and stuff like that
[09:11] <zyga> and with windows sticker too ;-)
[09:11] <fabbione> ahah
[09:12] <zyga> fabbione: heh :)
[09:12] <zyga> I don't do hw really, I'm mostly incompetent 
[09:12] <zyga> though the new job is showing a chance to learn :)
[09:12] <fabbione> i don't much hw either. not anymore...
[09:12] <fabbione> i used to do a lot when i was working for computer shops
[09:13] <zyga> (we're running tons of tons of multicasts/broadcasts on 100Mb lan and have recently recovered from the strain
[09:13] <zyga> recent trips to the server room was productive
[09:13] <zyga> s/was/were/
[10:14] <fanopnaic> who am i supposed to contact regarding distro-specific bugs in gnome-terminal, which doesn't use malone?
[10:18] <Chipzz> fanopnaic: bugs are *extremely* *rarely* distro-specific
[10:22] <Chipzz> fanopnaic: as a matter of fact, except for the launchpad stuff, gnome-terminal is not patched at all
[10:23] <fanopnaic> ok, this is my bug at gnome.org: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=338509
[10:23] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 338509 in general "g-t does not eat up the previous/next tab sequence when on the edge of the tab bar" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[10:26] <Chipzz> how is this relevant to dapper? dapper has 2.14.0
[10:27] <fanopnaic> I am running dapper and it has 2.14.1
[10:27] <Chipzz> yes
[10:27] <Chipzz> hrrrm misread the bug report
[10:27] <Chipzz> anyway
[10:28] <Chipzz> I don't see how this *can* be distro-specific
[10:28] <Chipzz> ubuntu doesn't change any related code
[10:30] <Chipzz> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gnome-terminal/gnome-terminal_2.14.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[10:32] <fanopnaic> I saw that, is this the diff to the debian source or the original source?
[10:32] <crimsun> original upstream tarball.
[11:02] <_ion> Why does the default /etc/avahi/avahi-daemon.conf contain "use-ipv6=no"?