[12:59] <mdke> who knows what there are two packages for nvidia-glx and -legacy? Why not a single package?
[01:03] <Seveas> mdke, -legacy is an older version of the driver
[01:03] <Seveas> the newer versions don't support older cards
[01:06] <mdke> Seveas, I know. My question is why the drivers are not included in the same package
[01:07] <Seveas> because they use the same filenames iirc
[01:07] <mdke> there would be some obvious advantages to doing so, and I believe this is done by other distributions
[01:07] <mdke> apparently gentoo ships them together, for example
[01:08] <mdke> if that's true, can "same filenames" be the answer?
[01:20] <Seveas> apt-file lists says there are lots of files with the same filename
[01:20] <Seveas> so for Ubuntu that is the answer, dunno how gentoo does it
[01:25] <jdong> Seveas: they have a symlink handling script... opengl-update
[01:25] <jdong> i.e. "opengl-update nvidia", "opengl-update nvidia-legacy", "opengl-update mesa"
[01:26] <jdong> and it creates the appropriate opengl symlinks
[01:26] <jdong> the ebuild instructs users to run the script after emerging nvidia drivers
[01:26] <Seveas> would be the same as an alternatives group on Ubuntu
[01:26] <jdong> yeah, basicaly
[01:26] <Seveas> interesting approach
[01:26] <jdong> and we should be able to auto-detect/determine whether we need legacy or new drivers
[01:27] <jdong> (a bit complex with multiple cards, but nonetheless possible)
[01:27] <mdke> that sounds saner than having separate packages, and an extra -settings package
[01:27] <jdong> ugh, yeah, especially now that one of the nvidia-glx packages includes  nvidia-settings :D
[01:27] <mdke> quite
[01:28] <jdong> is it too late to make that change though?
[01:28] <mdke> oh yeah
[01:28] <jdong> ok
[01:28] <jdong> a bit OT, but does anyone know if Dapper i386 runs on the MacBooks?
[01:29] <jdong> (without a tremendous amount of BootCamp hacking)
[01:29] <jdong> I noticed a while back we were enabling EFI stuff left and right....
[01:36] <delire> if you haven't already, a review of dapper: http://www.linuxforums.org/reviews/ubuntu:_a_ramble_through_drake_lake.html
[01:37] <delire> out of interest has there been any talk of autodetecting cards that support XGL and providing users with an option to run it on install? 
[01:42] <Chipzz> why would we wanna do that?
[01:42] <Chipzz> it's not like it's stable or even usable
[01:43] <Chipzz> compiz lacks several important features/does things wrong
[01:43] <delire> Chipzz: not for Dapper, in future in general.
[01:55] <gandalf> why isn't dapper using xulrunner for epiphany?
[02:04] <Seveas> gandalf, xulrunner wasn't ready in time
[02:05] <gandalf> its been stable for quite a while
[02:05] <robertj> delire: it is 100% safe to ignore any "a review of X OS" that comes out < 1 week AFTER OS release
[02:07] <gandalf> I get the impression that there is a lot of firefox advocacy going on which has gotten in the way of removing it as a dependance for epiphany. Rather than let the user decide the mindset seems to be that firefox should always ben installed
[02:08] <gandalf> epiphany isn't going to get far if it remains dependent on the installation of another browser to function
[02:08] <robertj> gandalf: SPEC out a "Uninstall firefox with gnome-app-install" for dapper+1 then
[02:09] <gandalf>  i'm just curious why there seems to be so much resistance to allowing epiphany to function independently of ff
[02:11] <robertj> gandalf: it's just release prep
[02:11] <robertj> gandalf: it's not a conspiracy
[02:11] <crimsun> never mistake malice for Parkinson's Law
[02:11] <robertj> gandalf: if anything it's probably just people ignoring any post containing the word epiphany because of all the "Epiphany should be our default browser" posts
[02:13] <gandalf> maybe, some of the ML chatter just leads me to believe that some people are pushing ff too hard. I can understand why. FF does not really fit in with KDE, and konqueror is pretty solid these days. FF is a better fit in gnome, but still not HIG compliant or as integrated as epiphany. If you make epiphany independent of FF then there will be a lot fewer FF installs on linux desktops
[02:14] <sabdfl> i would really like to see better FF / desktop integration, for one
[02:14] <gandalf> won't happen
[02:14] <Chipzz> gandalf: and yet I like ff *a lot* more than epiphany
[02:15] <Chipzz> bckspace/shift-bckspace
[02:15] <Chipzz> tabs taking up less vertical space
[02:15] <gandalf> sure FF has a lot going for it, but it suffers from a sluggish interface
[02:15] <Chipzz> tabs shrinking horizontally
[02:15] <gandalf> there are actually moving to fixed width tabs
[02:16] <Chipzz> it does, and is still preferable to epi
[02:16] <Chipzz> epi just lacks a lot of the shortcuts/features I'm used to from ff
[02:17] <robertj> sabdfl: is there a way to assign a draft spec to dapper+1 currently?
[02:17] <gandalf> sure, and for those users that want FF it is easy enough for them to select it as an option. Epiphany is covering a difference audience that FF
[02:18] <Chipzz> gandalf: for users migrating from windows, its still not a good idea
[02:18] <jdong> better FF performance....
[02:18] <jdong> right now it's not even funny
[02:18] <Chipzz> they me be migrating from windows + ff
[02:18] <jdong> UI redraws are horrendously CPU and time intensive
[02:18] <Chipzz> and even in windows + ie backspace / shift-backspace work
[02:19] <gandalf> I use FF on windows because it performs OK, but the linux version is the poor relation for sure. Even the UI looks klunky in comparison
[02:19] <robertj> I think for most users, firefox is one of their best parts of the Linux experience
[02:20] <gandalf> no way
[02:20] <robertj> Web-browsing is a relatively complete use case
[02:21] <gandalf> The linux version is very neglected, and it's not getting the kind of love the win32 versin does. Understandable though as win32 is one deskop platform, with linux you have a lot more desktop options and so far less integration
[02:21] <Chipzz> gandalf: while I agree with you that firefox could be better integrated with gnome, epi is IMHO not the solution
[02:21] <jdong> the integration has improved recently...
[02:21] <robertj> I use Firefox on Mac daily and so perhaps I'm just thankful for the versions shipped by Ubuntu
[02:22] <Chipzz> it still does not use stock icons
[02:22] <gandalf> OK, but epiphany should be compiled to use XULrunner and it should be the default browser if the user chooses gnome as their desktop
[02:23] <gandalf> just like konqueror should be the default if KDE is used as the desktop
[02:23] <jbailey> lifeless: Was out for the WE, am back now.  'sup?
[02:23] <Chipzz> gandalf: *sigh*
[02:24] <Chipzz> gandalf: as has been pointed out to before, its not compiled vs xulrunner probably because the ubuntu people did not want to introduce new risks by switching to xulrunner this late in the release-cycle
[02:25] <gandalf> So you saidm I'm taking about a +1 release
[02:25] <Chipzz> s/out to/out to you/
[02:25] <lifeless> jbailey: failure to boot with the current kernel, initramfs isn't running evms_activate properly
[02:25] <Chipzz> s/vs/against/
[02:25] <robertj> Chipzz: do you have any idea if you can propose a spec target a specific milestone?
[02:25] <Chipzz> robertj: no, I'm not even an ubuntu developer ;)
[02:25] <robertj> Chipzz: or if there is even a spec overview page?
[02:25] <jbailey> lifeless: Ugh, weird.  I don't have an evms setup to test, and am not really involved in initramfs stuff these days.
[02:25] <jbailey> lifeless: So I don't have a good answer off hand, sorry.
[02:26] <lifeless> jbailey: np. I got keybuks eyeballs for a bit
[02:26] <lifeless> and we concluded it was weird.
[02:27] <lifeless> still needs a fix though, have to manually repair each boot at the moment
[02:27] <Chipzz> gandalf: you'll have to come up with better arguments if you want epi to be the default browser
[02:27] <jbailey> lifeless: Huh, weird.
[02:27] <lifeless> (repair == 'evms_activate'; Ctrl-D)
[02:28] <Chipzz> gandalf: I'm sure the ubuntu people have very good reasons for having it as a default
[02:28] <robertj> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs is the overpage btw
[02:28] <gandalf> Chipzz: Would you have 'gedit' as the default text editor in KDE?
[02:28] <Chipzz> firefox is neither gnome nor kde
[02:28] <Chipzz> bzzzzzzzzzzt, bad example
[02:28] <Chipzz> next?
[02:29] <Chipzz> (I use vim anyway, but whatever)
[02:29] <gandalf> exactly! Firefox should be an elected default. Otherwise you are lumbering users with a sub-optimal experience
[02:29] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[02:31] <Chipzz> gandalf: I'm growing really tired of this discussion
[02:31] <Chipzz> your argument is incorrect
[02:31] <Chipzz> .
[02:31] <gandalf> Chipzz: because it does not accord with your view of things? Not really the acid test of validity I feel
[02:32] <Chipzz> gandalf: no, because your reasoning IS incorrect
[02:32] <Chipzz> let me show you why
[02:32] <Chipzz> firefox is not a gnome application, neither a kde application
[02:32] <Chipzz> lets call it an "X application"
[02:33] <Chipzz> using firefox on gnome == using an X application on gnome
[02:33] <Chipzz> using gedit on kde = using a gnome application on kde
[02:33] <Chipzz> see how that is different?
[02:35] <gandalf> yes, but the point is FF is not giving the user an optimal experience in gnome or kde so it should not be the default in either. The kind of users that would know about FF are going to be able to set it as default themselves
[02:35] <Chipzz> no
[02:36] <Chipzz> firefox is not giving the user an optimal experience *in*your*opinion*
[02:36] <gandalf> well me and a small army
[02:36] <Chipzz> epiphany just lacks too many features *in*my*opinion* to be usefull
[02:36] <Chipzz> oh and btw
[02:37] <Chipzz> noticed how ubuntu is not the only distro doing this?
[02:38] <neuralis> the reasons for using firefox instead of epiphany have been debated ad nauseam on u-d. nothing to see here, please move on.
[02:38] <gandalf> Chipzz: But youknow enough to chnage the browser. Joe Average user is likely going to stick with whatever he gets, and lumping him with FF seems abad decision
[02:38] <Chipzz> if joe average user is unable to change his browser, he is most likely coming from windows (with either ie or ff) anyway
[02:39] <Chipzz> for ie it doesn't make a difference, for ff it's what he's used to
[02:40] <gandalf> raher confusing though as FF is not HIG compliant for gnome
[02:40] <Chipzz> oh god
[02:40] <Chipzz> 02:21 < Chipzz> gandalf: while I agree with you that firefox could be better integrated with gnome, epi is IMHO not the solution
[02:41] <Chipzz> I didn't say it couldn't be improved, did I?
[02:41] <gandalf> gnome hig has been around for a long time
[02:41] <Chipzz> but in the end it does not matter what you think or what I think
[02:42] <Chipzz> 02:38 < neuralis> the reasons for using firefox instead of epiphany have been debated ad nauseam on u-d. nothing to see here, please move on.
[02:43] <gandalf> like i said before I understand why people are pushing FF, I just think they do it for the wrong reasons
[02:45] <Chipzz> wrt gnome hig btw
[02:45] <Chipzz> a lot bigger problem is OOo imho
[02:46] <Steff_breezy> hi, could somebody please tell me a name of a channel op of #ubuntu, im banned from there for posting off topic content, i want to excuse and participate again
[02:47] <neuralis> Steff_breezy: seveas is one person to talk to.
[02:47] <Steff_breezy> ok, htx
[03:14] <Lathiat> hrm
[03:14] <Lathiat> what happened to /etc/network/options 
[03:14] <Lathiat> thats goign to break some msetups
[03:16] <Lathiat> aah, i see
[03:17] <Lathiat> usign sysctl.conf, still, that can breaj existing setups that rely e.g. on ip_forward, so there should be some notes about that or someting
[04:41] <jdong> are the new ipw3945abg cards going to be supported by dapper?
[04:41] <jdong> specifically, Malone 35215....
[04:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35215 in linux-source-2.6.15 "ipw3945 driver required for functionality on new Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Mini-PCI Express Adapters" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35215
[04:41] <jdong> so, being in progress, does that mean we're going to support it?
[04:42] <jdong> including the userspace daemon and firmware, so that it works out-of-the-box?
[04:42] <jdong> it's scary how many core duos are on the shelves nowadays
[04:42] <jdong> they just exploded in popularity
[05:00] <sabdfl> jdong: will you get a read on that from benc later?
[05:02] <jdong> sabdfl: it sounds like a sortof yes.... I've heard at least one of those back two releases ago that didn't make it because of missing pieces ;)
[05:02] <jdong> but I have confidence in you guys
[05:03] <sabdfl> 3945 is quite a big deal
[05:03] <jdong> I understand... which is why I am quite concerned about it
[05:04] <jdong> other than this wifi card, I think we support el generico core duo pretty well
[05:04] <jdong> I believe we have the sound card and video drivers for it working, already
[05:04] <jdong> (I guess a background motive is I'm looking into buying a core duo myself... and want to make sure it'll run Ubuntu!)
[05:06] <bddebian> heh
[05:07] <bddebian> Hey it'll run XP/vista, what more could you need? ;-P
[05:13] <jdong> lol
[05:16] <jdong> well, I'm gonna go off to bed now
[05:16] <jdong> great to see you, sabdfl....
[05:16] <jdong> night
[05:16] <sabdfl> night
[05:17] <lifeless> gnight
[06:12] <Burgundavia> mako: you around?
[06:30] <neuralis> Burgundavia: hey
[06:30] <neuralis> Burgundavia: mako and i are here, you around?
[06:30] <Burgundavia> neuralis: check
[06:32] <ajmitch> hi neuralis, Burgundavia 
[06:33] <Burgundavia> salut ajmitch
[06:34] <neuralis> hey ajmitch
[06:34] <neuralis> how goes?
[06:34] <ajmitch> good, just fighting with zope :)
[06:35] <neuralis> yuck. i won't repeat my opinion of zope :)
[06:35] <ajmitch> yeah, I remember your decriptions :
[06:35] <ajmitch> but I'm using plone for a project - pity it's all uninstallable right now
[07:46] <Burgundavia> mako: about to head to bed. You around?
[07:58] <Amaranth> mathrick: build-essential is a package you can guarantee is installed on the buildds, thus no package depends on it, needed or not
[07:58] <Amaranth> \sh!
[07:58] <mathrick> Amaranth: buildds is what?
[07:58] <\sh> moins Amaranth
[07:59] <Amaranth> mathrick: debian and ubuntu and likely everyone else making debian derivatives
[07:59] <Amaranth> mathrick: it's just...there
[07:59] <mathrick> Amaranth: but, uh, that's about an end-user oriented package
[07:59] <mathrick> I couldn't care less what's installed on debian's build machines :)
[08:00] <Amaranth> yeah, tricky
[08:00] <mathrick> IMHO, there should be devel-core package
[08:00] <Amaranth> you can try reopening it and pointing that out, i guess
[08:00] <Amaranth> devel-core? you mean build-essential? :)
[08:01] <mathrick> since debuild isn't really the essential dep for someone doing own devel
[08:01] <mathrick> s/the/an/
[08:01] <Amaranth> hmm
[08:01] <Amaranth> i'd think it wouldn't be worth the hassle
[08:01] <\sh> hmm..anyone an idea if there is a python interface lib for procfs?
[08:02] <ajmitch> morning \sh 
[08:02] <mako> Burgundavia: hey
[08:02] <mako> i'm back home now
[08:02] <\sh> morning ajmitch :)
[08:03] <Amaranth> \sh: google turns up nothing useful
[08:03] <\sh> Amaranth: yeah...google was my first place to look :)
[08:04] <mathrick> Amaranth: hassle?
[08:04] <Amaranth> actually, first result?
[08:04] <mathrick> it's a simple dummy package
[08:04] <mathrick> s/dummy/meta/
[08:04] <Amaranth> In the pyNMS package on sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pynms) there is a module called Linux.procfs, and in it there is an object called "ProcStat" that lets you get the process info easily (if running on Linux).
[08:04] <\sh> Amaranth: something with windows and procfs from a external package...which has nothing to do :)
[08:04] <\sh> Amaranth: yeah...checked it...it's only one class for ProcStat
[08:04] <Amaranth> ah
[08:04] <\sh> which is nothing :)
[08:05] <Amaranth> mathrick: you'd have to keep it in sync with build-essential and such
[08:05] <mathrick> Amaranth: I would?
[08:05] <mathrick> isn't that simply a small list of "assumed to be present" build tools?
[08:06] <mathrick> I really don't care about debian here, I want to compile my stuff
[08:06] <Amaranth> yeah, like make, auto*, etc
[08:06] <Amaranth> it'd be easy enough normally but you'd probably have to make it yourself
[08:07] <Amaranth> so..yeah :P
[08:14] <\sh> hmmm....
[08:15] <\sh> am I so damn stupid?
[08:15] <\sh>  /dev/scd0       /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 user,noauto     0       0 
[08:16] <\sh> this is working for all users to mount a cdrom drive from gnome or kde, right? /media/cdrom0 is plain directory, with 755 as permission settings
[08:16] <\sh> now I want this behaviour for an samba share
[08:16] <\sh> /192.168.1.12/mp3      /media/mp3      smbfs   user,noauto     0       0       
[08:17] <\sh> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root    6 2006-04-15 05:23 mp3
[08:17] <\sh> and I'm not allowed because of the /media/mp3 directory
[08:17] <\sh> gnarf
[08:18] <\sh> so what can be wrong?
[08:19] <fabbione> \sh: iirc the samba mount points in fstab are different
[08:19] <fabbione> like \\192.168.1.12\mp3
[08:20] <\sh> fabbione: no...this works as root and when I have it on auto :)
[08:20] <\sh> all checked :)
[08:20] <\sh> i had to set smbmnt to suid
[08:20] <\sh> to get the mount working for plain users
[08:20] <\sh> but now
[08:20] <fabbione> ok
[08:20] <\sh> shermann@toshiba-laptop:~$ mount /media/mp3
[08:20] <\sh> Password:
[08:20] <\sh> cannot mount on /media/mp3: Operation not permitted
[08:20] <\sh> smbmnt failed: 1
[08:21] <fabbione> strace it to see what is reporting the error?
[08:21] <tritium> \sh: have you tried libpam-mount?
[08:21] <\sh> fabbione: that's what I'm doing next :)
[08:24] <\sh> mount.smbfs is telling me this...but why and where...i don't even see in strace
[08:24] <\sh> lstat64("/media", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=84, ...}) = 0
[08:24] <\sh> lstat64("/media/mp3", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=6, ...}) = 0
[08:24] <\sh> geteuid32()                             = 1000
[08:25] <\sh> tritium: what about libpam-mount?
[08:26] <tritium> \sh: I use it to auto-mount samba dirs on our network at work.  No need for /etc/fstab or credentials files either
[08:27] <\sh> tritium: I don't want to automount them :) I want that a user can mount them on demand with their own logins towards the samba server..this works actually as root :) but now for the plain user :)
[08:27] <tritium> \sh: it's not an auto-mount.  My poor choice of words.  It mounts when I login.
[08:28] <tritium> \sh: anyway, it may be worth looking at, or not
[08:29] <\sh> apt-get install libpam-mount?
[08:30] <tritium> yes, \sh 
[08:33] <tritium> \sh: I appended "@include common-pammount" to /etc/pam.d/gdm and /etc/pam.d/login, and then setup a ~/.pam_mount.conf file
[08:34] <tritium> the docs in the package are pretty good
[08:34] <\sh> yeah...just reading :)
[08:35] <\sh> restarting session brb
[08:42] <mako> neuralis: i talked to corey.. he seems cool with whatever
[08:42] <mako> neuralis: and i just emailed everyone with the suggestion
[08:42] <tritium> \sh: how did it work out?
[08:46] <\sh> tritium: in the moment it does nothing :)
[08:46] <\sh> tritium: I wrote something like this in .pam_mount.conf
[08:46] <\sh> volume shermann smbfs 192.168.1.12 mp3 /home/shermann/mp3
[08:47] <tritium> \sh: Did you allow "luserconf .pam_mount.conf" in /etc/security/pam_mount.conf?
[08:48] <\sh> tritium: yeah...everything setuped :)
[08:49] <tritium> \sh: perhaps you're missing a few options (or - - - if no options needed) at the end of that line
[08:49] <\sh> tritium: logfile for this?
[08:50] <tritium> \sh: I'll query you and show you my .pam_mount.conf
[08:50] <\sh> kk
[09:00] <\sh> re
[09:01] <\sh> hmmm...after kdm login this won't work still...brb
[09:02] <\sh> but now :) it was kdm-np and not kdm :)
[09:03] <tritium> \sh: cool :)
[09:20] <sivang> morning all
[09:24] <zyga> hello sivang
[09:24] <zyga> sivang: did you manage to pull those patches yesterday?
[09:36] <mathrick> zyga: wow, a Pole! :)
[09:36] <zyga> mathrick: hi
[09:37] <zyga> there are other native folks here from time to time
[09:37] <mathrick> by native you mean Polish, or just any random $NATIONALITY?
[09:37] <zyga> the former
[09:38] <mathrick> I see
[09:47] <sivang> zyga: will do that today, had to catch a train back home last night, then arrived beat and went to sleep.
[09:47] <zyga> sivang: I see
[09:48] <enyc> Question: ?where may I see/find-out information abuot Firefox updates in Ubuntu... note that Mozilla have released Firefox 1.0.8 and 1.5.0.2 (security updates), and that (now) warty/hoary/breezy ought to get patched to 1.0.8 or fixes taken-across.... but mozilla only intend to suppotr the 1.0 series for 6 months (being therefore a problem for future security-updates in hoary and breezy).......
[09:50] <zyga> enyc: hoary is about to be end-of-lifed AFAIR
[09:50] <Amaranth> enyc: mozilla's support for 1.0.x is nonexistant
[09:50] <Amaranth> 1.0.8 was the last release
[09:51] <Amaranth> zyga: warty
[09:51] <zyga> Amaranth: ah, right
[09:54] <enyc> zyga: well... ubuntu 4.10 support ends on 2006/04/30 ... which is a few weeks away...
[09:55] <enyc> zyga: and firefox security update upstream is _now_ ;-)
[10:10] <enyc> highvoltage: do you have any notes/information on firefox security updates r.e. 1.0.8-patches for warty/hoary/breezy ?
[10:10] <highvoltage> enyc: nope
[10:10] <enyc> hrrm
[10:11] <enyc> I wonder who looks after such things ;-)
[10:11] <highvoltage> sorry..
[10:11] <highvoltage> enyc: the ubuntu security team?
[10:11] <enyc> hrrm
[10:11] <enyc> do they have a discussion channel or problems-to-be-dealt-with page or such-like ?
[10:11] <enyc> or just genera malone bugs blah?
[10:11] <highvoltage> enyc: note that warty is now unsupported, so it's probably just hoary and breezy that will get the security updates
[10:11] <fabbione> enyc: no need to panic.. this "problem" has been already discussed in the security team
[10:11] <enyc> I thught warty support ends on end of this month
[10:12] <fabbione> warty might get the update
[10:12] <fabbione> hoary and breezy will for sure
[10:13] <enyc> fabbione: enyc not panicing but enyc want to nknow where such discussions are ;-)
[10:14] <fabbione> enyc: there isn't really much to discuss.. if you find a security problem you comunicate it to security@ubuntu.com
[10:14] <fabbione> usually keep a problem quite to give security teams time to take actions is the best thing to do
[10:14] <fabbione> instead of spreading panic around people
[10:14] <enyc> aah k ;-)
[10:15] <enyc> so how doe s fabb know this has already been discussed by the team?
[10:15] <fabbione> i am used to be part of the security team
[10:15] <highvoltage> fabbione: ubuntu's policy is to disclose any security information as soon as it's available, right?
[10:16] <fabbione> highvoltage: it depends from the problem and it is discovered. It is really a matter of case by case here
[10:16] <enyc> fabbione: thats sensible
[10:16] <fabbione> and HOW it is discovered
[10:17] <fabbione> highvoltage: clearly as soon as there is a fix available, that's made available and USN published
[10:17] <highvoltage> ok
[10:18] <enyc> sure. like somebody points it out quietly ;-)   or.. its being talked about all over the place already ;-)
[10:18] <fabbione> there are more issues than just that
[10:18] <fabbione> it depends on what kind of security issue it is
[10:18] <fabbione> and what's the impact
[10:18] <enyc> i see
[10:18] <fabbione> it's way more complicated than it looks like
[10:20] <fabbione> there are also situations in which user foo finds security issue and tells upstream
[10:20] <fabbione> upstream asks to keep it quite for the time it takes to fix it
[10:20] <fabbione> because perhaps a fix might require a lot of code rewrite..
[10:21] <fabbione> but you might find that the issue is just a possible application crash and the application is xeyes
[10:21] <fabbione> so it's not exactly high impact
[12:22] <rupert> can someone help mit LUKS and the crypttab?
[12:24] <Treenaks> crypttab?
[12:26] <rupert> i just found a forum tread that seems to help, i have the error when /etc/cryptdisks is started,the drive wasnat initialized correct, i will just reboot and when the error ist there i will come back, 
[12:33] <pygi> Mithrandir: here?
[12:35] <Mithrandir> pygi: yes, but it's a vacation day for me today.
[02:21] <zul> heylo
[02:21] <_ion> hilo
[02:40] <rcaskey_> is launchpad's userbase currently stored in ldap?
[02:42] <Mithrandir> I wouldn't think so, why?
[02:42] <rcaskey_> Mithrandir: I was curious as to how one might go about grafting an openid identity provider onto it
[02:43] <rcaskey_> thought it might be a good goal for dapper+1
[02:43] <zakame> hi all
[02:47] <Lathiat> rcaskey_: its nto really a dapper related goal
[02:47] <Lathiat> rcaskey_: so dapper+1 is arbitrary :)
[02:47] <rcaskey_> Lathiat: what's wrong with arbitrary ;)
[02:48] <rcaskey_> Lathiat: good idea/bad idea?
[02:48] <Lathiat> rcaskey_: no idea, but its !ubuntu related :) #launchpad perhaps?
[02:49] <rcaskey_> Lathiat: ahh, did not know there was such a ##beast
[02:49] <Lathiat> :)
[03:12] <lemsx1> please apply this temporary fix to logcheck: Bug #29550
[03:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29550 in logcheck "logcheck cant get lockfile, does not work. (Dapper)" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29550
[03:13] <lemsx1> just adding a new line to /etc/cron.d/logcheck: 1 * * * *       root    test ! -d /var/lock/logcheck && mkdir -p /var/lock/logcheck && chown -R logcheck /var/lock/logcheck
[03:13] <lemsx1> there are MANY bugs open on that package for the same problem
[04:44] <janimo> seb128, hi can you get the gdm upload with xubuntu art dependency in before beta?thanks
[05:58] <_ion> glatzor: "HOWTO: Use the proprietary MGA HAL driver with modular X"  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=161603
[06:03] <glatzor> _ion: nice
[06:04] <glatzor> have you already attached your patch to the bug report?
[06:05] <_ion> glatzor: Not yet. I think i should read some user comments from that forum thread first.
[06:07] <fabbione> good morning mdz
[06:07] <mdz> morning
[06:07] <fabbione> are you in london?
[06:07] <mdz> yes
[06:07] <fabbione> ahh
[06:07] <mdz> and the sun is shining!
[06:08] <fabbione> amazing!
[06:08] <janimo> mdz, hi I'd like to get thunar beta1 (released today) in our beta. Is it ok considering the beta freeze?
[06:08] <sivang> happy easter mdz , fabbione :)
[06:08] <janimo> and generally xfce 4.4 beta1 is being tagged today/tomorrw
[06:08] <fabbione> sivang: thanks, same to you
[06:09] <sivang> fabbione: :) how is london?
[06:09] <fabbione> sivang: i am not in londong...
[06:09] <fabbione> london even
[06:09] <mdz> janimo: your call; it won't interfere with the ubuntu beta
[06:09] <janimo> mdz, ok thanks
[06:10] <sivang> fabbione: oops, it's mdz that's in london :)
[06:10] <glatzor> hi mdz. michael asked me about the status of my dapper bugs. the problem is that i cannot see any milestones in my launchpand.
[06:11] <glatzor> seems like a permission issue, right?
[06:12] <mdz> glatzor: no, I don't think so
[06:12] <mdz> perhaps they are just not visible where you are looking
[06:12] <glatzor> michael created a lp query and we assigned them to him
[06:12] <glatzor> mdz: we even compared screenshots :)
[06:12] <glatzor> i have to leave for lunch. bye
[06:13] <mdz> the milestones are visible even to users who are not logged in
[06:14] <Mithrandir> janimo: are you aiming at releasing with the rest of Ubuntu on Thursday?
[06:17] <janimo> Mithrandir: yes
[06:17] <janimo> with livecd too hopefully
[06:19] <Mithrandir> janimo: nice :-)
[06:20] <janimo> :)
[06:28] <\sh> bah...where is the gun to shoot me
[06:28] <\sh> I wonder what's installed on kamions cdbuilding server....
[06:36] <glatzor> mdz: i show you the screenshot if i am back at home
[06:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: I just booted the current dapper daily-live in vmware, and there is neither an espresso launcher nor example-content link on the desktop; any idea?
[06:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: also, it seems that /var/log/casper is gone. where is the log written now?
[06:50] <mdz> \sh: breezy/i386
[06:53] <\sh> mdz: hehe..:) I'm just trying to figure out the magic of kamions cd baking magic :)
[06:53] <\sh> everything is there...it's just not putting the packages into the iso
[06:54] <\sh> one file which should be filled, is empty...and I don't know how...comparing the cdbuild-logs in kamions public and my logs are not so different..the packages of cause are missing
[07:00] <fabbione> mdz: today's image might be dodgy. for some reasons the buildd have been offline more than 24 hours. so something might not be exactly as it should be
[07:01] <Mithrandir> mdz: it doesn't log at the moment, sadly.  I haven't had time to implement it.
[07:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: but I can reproduce it.  I'll see if it's better tomorrow when I start testing as such, since it's still holiday for me.
[07:05] <\sh> OUTCH
[07:05] <\sh> KAMION
[07:12] <mdz> fabbione: are they fixed now?
[07:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: hmm, the logging needs fixing, that's another regression from breezy
[07:12] <fabbione> mdz: the buildd yes, the images mostlikely no, since it did happen after cron.daily
[07:13] <fabbione> and i didn't really spend time looking at what might have been broken
[07:13] <fabbione> it's holidays here too :)
[07:15] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[07:15] <_ion> Howdy-ho.
[07:16] <bddebian> Mr. Hanky? ;-)
[07:16] <_ion> Indeed. :-)
[07:16] <Mithrandir> mdz: file a bug.
[07:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: was already doing so
[07:17] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[07:17] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[07:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: btw, mv: unable to rename `/root/home/ubuntu/Examples': Not a directory
[07:19] <Mithrandir> mdz: hm, trivial fix for that one, at least.
[07:19] <G0SUB_> jdub: ping
[07:19] <mdz> Mithrandir: I'll file that one as well, unless you've already fixed it
[07:20] <Mithrandir> mdz: I just fixed it in bzr, so unless you really want to, don't. :-)
[07:20] <mdz> ok
[07:33] <\sh> ok...one enhancement so far...I have 111MB iso image for the installer...but where's the rest ...why is this nasty thing not putting the other packages on the cd
[07:35] <G0SUB_> \sh: hey! welcome back :)
[07:37] <\sh> huhu G0SUB_
[07:37] <\sh> grmpf ....this is a beast...
[07:37] <\sh> export CDIMAGE_INSTALL=1 works ... ah come on...now it works
[07:46] <bddebian> \sh!
[07:47] <\sh> bddebian !
[08:03] <jdong> where are development kernel sources kept?
[08:03] <jdong> is there a git/bzr repository somewhere?
[08:04] <fabbione> jdong: yes there is a git repo
[08:04] <fabbione> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide
[08:07] <jdong> thank you
[08:14] <\sh> lol...Larry Ellison, boss of oracle, is thinking about buying Novell, to have an OS, just like MS.
[08:14] <bddebian> Ellison is a puke
[08:14] <\sh> and they have to think, if they can cooporate with redhat, after they bought jboss...because now, redhat is in their business (middleware) *rotfl*
[08:16] <zul> i dont think oracle know how to do an os...properly even..
[08:16] <\sh> as "the thing" said: don't do drugs !! :)
[08:16] <\sh> well, novell didn't know it either :) but now..no one is talking about novell netware anymore...;)
[08:16] <zul> netware rocks!! ;)
[08:17] <bddebian> Actually I used to like Netware around 3.11
[08:17] <\sh> well, it's just like you said just now: "BNC networks are the future" ;)
[08:18] <zul> you only need 4MB of ram as well
[08:18] <doko_> Kamion, mdz: would you mind updates of gnome java bindings in universe before the beta?
[08:19] <\sh> zul: well, then should novell invent the "netware fridge - the OS for _your_ fridge..small, fresh and icy"
[08:19] <zul> hmmm...fridge
[08:23] <\sh> and in the manual of netware fridge, there will be written: "Plugin your BNC cable but beware of the cleaning lady"
[08:28] <zul> mdz: ping
[08:32] <dholbach> Kamion: if you have the time, could you please move tang{o,erine}-icon-theme to main? (pitti approved them and I'd like to do a ubuntu-meta update)
[08:33] <fabbione> dholbach: did you seed them already?
[08:33] <fabbione> if so they will appear in one of Kamion's super tools of death
[08:33] <bddebian> heh
[08:33] <dholbach> fabbione: i did that, but  ./update   in ubuntu-meta said "Nothing to do." or something
[08:33] <Mithrandir> aka anastacia?
[08:34] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yeah probably
[08:35] <dholbach> fabbione, Mithrandir: so what do I do wrong? I seeded them, but ubuntu-meta's ./update is not happy with it.
[08:36] <fabbione> dholbach: one second
[08:36] <dholbach> take your time :)
[08:36] <fabbione> dholbach: i know why...
[08:37] <fabbione> i will give you one more chance to think :)
[08:37] <dholbach> don't excite me even more... tell me! :-)
[08:37] <fabbione> i am sure as hell that chinstrap != rookery
[08:38] <dholbach> they are not the same
[08:38] <fabbione> exactly
[08:38] <fabbione> so if you did seed the pkgs on chinstrap
[08:38] <fabbione> you might need to wait that it propagates to rookery
[08:38] <fabbione> aka people
[08:38] <dholbach> i waited 2,5 days
[08:38] <fabbione> where ./update expects the seeds
[08:38] <dholbach> if that's a weekly cronjob, I might have had bad luck :-p
[08:39] <fabbione> probably Kamion's script is broken..
[08:39] <fabbione> it's not the first time it stops mirroring
[08:39] <dholbach> i'll just try to ping him tomorrow
[08:39] <dholbach> nevermind... thanks for investigating
[08:44] <\sh> hmm...can someone say something to xserver-xgl? is it stable and how is the performance on <1.5GHz machines?
[08:44] <Tm_T> \sh: "stable" but I won't use it until it gets more mature
[08:45] <Tm_T> atleast I couldnt get it work well with KDE
[08:45] <\sh> Tm_T: but I can switch between xorg and xgl?
[08:46] <Tm_T> afaik not fast enough :p
[08:46] <\sh> I mean, if I install it now, my xorg conf and everything else will not be destroyed by accident?
[08:47] <Tm_T> should not
[08:48] <\sh> ok.let's see..how can I activate Xgl? 
[08:48] <Tm_T> hum
[08:48] <Tm_T> got that funky message?
[08:48] <\sh> yepp
[08:48] <Tm_T> ;)
[08:49] <\sh> cool thx :)
[08:49] <Tm_T> \sh: just remind you, I'm slightly agains Xgl, so I'm not good guy to help with it ;)
[08:50] <Tm_T> or even tell about it
[08:50] <janimo> dholbach: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/t/tango-icon-theme/
[08:50] <janimo> since it's in universe update does not see them
[08:50] <Tm_T> \sh: have fun with it, I'm off to sleep ->
[08:51] <janimo> so even if it's in the seed it is ignired untiul it enters main
[08:51] <dholbach> janimo: I suppose, asking Colin was the right thing to do, hm? :)
[08:51] <janimo> yep :)
[08:51] <dholbach> woohoo! :)
[08:51] <bddebian> "It's much easier to beg forgiveness, than ask permission"
[08:51] <janimo> although he is probably notified by anastacia as fabione said
[08:52] <janimo> dholbach: just checking out murphy's site :) 
[08:52] <dholbach> haha :)
[08:53] <dholbach> my brother made it :)
[08:54] <janimo> nice :)
[09:02] <\sh> ok..i810 doesn't work at all it seems :)
[09:09] <zul> yeah i had the same problem..
[09:12] <bddebian> i810 is a PITA :-(
[09:14] <coyctecm> i810 works great :)
[09:14] <coyctecm> with ubuntu 6.04 thought
[09:14] <\sh> but not with xgl :)
[09:15] <coyctecm> ok
[09:15] <coyctecm> sorry i was thinking that this is #gentoo :D
[09:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39907 in openoffice.org openoffice.org-base "new table wizard crashes on ppc64" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39907
[09:16] <shackan> \sh, xgl runs almost fine on mine
[09:16] <\sh> which card?
[09:16] <shackan> i810 ...
[09:16] <\sh> my combi was: i810, xgl, kde :)
[09:17] <shackan> well, change kde with gnome and you have my setup
[09:17] <shackan> (not atm, actually, just tried it for fun a while back)
[09:19] <rcaskey_> shackan: a few weeks back xgl was working but some window effects were very slow
[09:19] <rcaskey_> window resizing was _VERY_ slow but the cube animation was very fluid. Some crashes of course..
[09:20] <shackan> it was usable here, except for the wobbly effect which would slow down with a big window
[09:20] <shackan> but heh, all I might need it for is the expos-like feature
[09:20] <bddebian> What package is supposed to create /dev/sequencer?
[09:20] <shackan> as I tend to clutter my desktop(s) with many windows
[09:21] <shackan> mh, is there anything to simulate expos in metacity ?
[09:29] <KaiL> gar, damn Crashfox.... eh, Firefox - chances for 1.5.0.2 in dapper? ;)
[09:29] <mjg59> KaiL: File bugs, link to fixes
[09:29] <Burgwork> KaiL, it will happen, due to mozilla's braindead support strategy
[09:30] <mjg59> Where "fixes" may be "Upgrade to 1.5.0.2", so...
[09:30] <KaiL> mjg59, do we now need bugs for that?
[09:31] <mjg59> KaiL: "Firefox crashes when I do this. 1.5.0.2 doesn't" is a bug, yes
[09:31] <KaiL> reminds me of old mozilla days, where a dey, who found a bug needed to file a bug with a patch, before he could fix it ;)
[09:31] <mjg59> We're in beta freeze
[09:31] <KaiL> I don't know, if 1.5.0.2 doesn't crash that often - I only hope it..
[09:31] <mjg59> There needs to be a compelling reason to change software versions right now
[09:32] <KaiL> don't have the time to check that now
[09:32] <KaiL> the security issues found in 1.5.0.1?
[09:42] <zyga> hey guys
[09:42] <zyga> has anyone noticed artefacts in the notification popus?
[09:42] <zyga> I can reproduce them all the time
[09:42] <zyga> usually a few black pixels out of place
[09:43] <KaiL> looks like driver issues..
[09:43] <zyga> KaiL: not really
[09:43] <zyga> it only happens in the notification popup
[09:43] <zyga> and only to specific texts
[09:44] <zyga> it seems that the popup is sized badly so that some text is invisible except for the topmost pixels
[10:21] <_ion> This tangerine-icon-theme is really nice.
[10:21] <_ion> I wish it were the default theme in dapper. :-)
[10:22] <dholbach> _ion: Human falls back to Tangerine
[10:22] <_ion> I like the Tangerine icons more than the Human icons.
[10:23] <_ion> But, of course, that's just my personal opinion.
[10:23] <dholbach> _ion: yeah, but they cover different areas of icons
[10:23] <dholbach> _ion: http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/ shows which icons are in which set already
[10:23] <_ion> Well, i wish they copied the directory icon from Tangerine to Human. :-)
[10:23] <andreasn> _ion: you can select tangrine only in the theme prefs
[10:24] <_ion> Yes, that's what i have done.
[10:24] <andreasn> but as dholbach says, some stuff is still missing
[10:24] <andreasn> :)
[10:31] <morka_> hi all
[10:32] <bddebian> Hello morka_
[10:32] <morka_> im curious how does ubuntu treat debian bugs? 
[10:33] <morka_> (if they affect ubuntu)
[10:33] <dholbach> good night guys... I'm off - see you tomorrow
[10:33] <\sh> cu dholbach
[10:33] <\sh> morka_: e.g.?
[10:33] <_ion> Night.
[10:34] <mdke> bon nuit monsieur dholbach 
[10:34] <morka_> there seems to be an bug affects both debians and ubuntus partman
[10:35] <morka_> ive seen it on debians mailing lists, trying to search for it in bugzilla.
[10:35] <\sh> bugzilla? launchpad you mean :)
[10:35] <morka_> ok, whatever the name of it is:)
[10:38] <morka_> oh, there are bounties:)
[11:01] <Surak> bug #39002 is still present after the fix...
[11:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39002 in nautilus "Can't rename _SOME_ icons when they are on destkop." [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39002
[11:02] <Burgwork> Surak, if you are certain you have the latest, reopen the bug
[11:03] <Surak> I'm getting a today's  build so I can certify everything is fully updated and correct.
[11:07] <cartel_> hey all
[11:08] <cartel_> Manoj is listed as mintainer of kernel-package, but he is not the maintainer of the ubuntu package. Who is the real maintainer/packager for this package?
[11:10] <crimsun> cartel_: core-dev? there's no single maintainer.
[11:12] <cartel_> crimsun: the maintainer field should be updated as im sure manoj doesnt need any email regarding a package not built by him
[11:12] <cartel_> crimsun: any core-dev people around?
[11:16] <LaserJock> cartel_: I didn't think Ubuntu changed the Maintainer field, the changes show up in Changed By, I think
[11:17] <cartel_> LaserJock: no Changed-By in apt-cache show
[11:17] <crimsun> because there hasn't been any consensus in Debian about what to do for derivatives' Maintainer fields, it hasn't been changed in Ubuntu. See flamewars on debian-devel from earlier this yera.
[11:17] <LaserJock> cartel_: it isn't there, but the source package has it
[11:20] <cartel_> heh
[11:20] <cartel_> lame
[11:24] <LaserJock> cartel_: well, currently there isn't a mechanism to seperate the maintainance other than Maintainer and Changed By
[11:24] <LaserJock> I don't think anyway
[11:24] <\sh> ok guys...good night ....
[11:25] <cartel_> LaserJock: surely the Maintainer field should just be updated to reflect the new maintainer
[11:26] <LaserJock> cartel_: but I think the point is that there isn't a new maintainer exactly
[11:26] <LaserJock> cartel_: so it gets a little messy
[11:27] <wasabi> I like how reviews about Ubuntu and stuff talk about how much "faster" it is than Distro X.
[11:27] <wasabi> Or slower.
[11:30] <cartel_> wasabi: it's quite noticable
[11:31] <wasabi> What is?
[11:32] <cartel_> wasabi: try installing ubuntu on a box next to, say, suse 10
[11:51] <mikael> Hi, I am trying to use the clock_getres() function but gcc complains about "undefined reference to clock_getres()"; gcc -E test.c shows that the functions are defined but still the linker doesn't find them I am using the most recent dapper you can get
[11:58] <jdong> is spinning down the hd once every 5 seconds good for the motor???