[12:05] <Tonio_> anyway, it could be nice to have a package for ubuntu, since amarok is so popular.... there is no reason listengnome could not fit lots of people awaitings...
[12:06] <pkern> Gobby's just messed.
[12:06] <pkern> lol
[12:06] <pkern> Oh well...
[12:07] <slomo_> Tonio_: so package it :) i'm not really interested in packaging it
[12:07] <slomo_> Tonio_: but i'll take a look at revu now :)
[12:08] <Tonio_> slomo_: I have a principle in my life, dedicating my work to kde and kubuntu :)
[12:08] <Tonio_> that doesn't use QT ;)
[12:08] <slomo_> networkmanager-openvpn doesn't use qt :P
[12:08] <Tonio_> but seriously, I'm not used to pakcage gnome apps at all ;) would be easier for an experimented gnome apps packager to do it :)
[12:09] <Tonio_> slomo_: true, but that's a component to a qt appliation :)
[12:09] <Tonio_> that's what I call "a required exception" :p
[12:09] <pkern> Ah bah. The Gobby Ubuntu patch is so messed that nobody could read anything out of it.
[12:10] <pkern> Is there any Ubuntuian way to get the source of the Debian base revision?
[12:10] <pkern> Apart from crawling archive.debian.{org,net}
[12:10] <slomo_> pkern: ask ogra what he have done to your package :)
[12:11] <pkern> slomo_: I think he changed one single line.
[12:11] <slomo_> Tonio_: ok, so when we get a package that uses qt and gtk we work together on it ;P well, with avahi i already have one but anyway...
[12:12] <Tonio_> slomo_: hehe ;) I never met a package using both in the same sources
[12:12] <Tonio_> slomo_: are there packages like that ?
[12:12] <Tonio_> I mean, with the same tarball
[12:12] <pkern> Tonio_: Avahi builds both Glib and Qt-related stuff
[12:12] <slomo_> Tonio_: avahi and dbus for example
[12:12] <Tonio_> slomo_: okay ;)
[12:14] <Tonio_> but really, my knowledge is really too limited at the moment to even think about working on something like dbus :)
[12:14] <Tonio_> slomo_: you should know I'm using linux since less than 2 years, so..... :)
[12:17] <cbx33> heya
[12:18] <Tonio_> hi cbx33
[12:18] <cbx33> hi Tonio_
[12:18] <slomo_> Tonio_: well... when i have qt-related avahi questions i'll ask you :)
[12:18] <cbx33> howz it all going today
[12:19] <Tonio_> slomo_: I doubt I could help, but I'll enjoy to try :)
[12:20] <cbx33> Tonio_, i know the feeling
[12:20] <cbx33> i sometimes feel really useless here
[12:20] <cbx33> i can't fix many bugs...at the moment
[12:21] <cbx33> I'm a good coder, but not in languages that are used in ubuntu much like python and c
[12:21] <Tonio_> cbx33: anyway, working on "too hard for us" things is the best way to increase our knowledge
[12:21] <cbx33> true
[12:21] <cbx33> I'm getting more and more into this.  I love helping out the ubuntu project
[12:21] <cbx33> wish there were more bugs I could fix :p
[12:22] <Tonio_> and limited knowledge never prevent me from contributing :)
[12:22] <cbx33> it would be great to have a short training in bug fixing
[12:22] <cbx33> Tonio_, i agree
[12:22] <cbx33> I still do everything I can to help out
[12:22] <Tonio_> but of course I wasn't doing the same things one year ago than the ones I can work on now :)
[12:22] <cbx33> just wish i could do more
[12:22] <cbx33> well I've only just started
[12:22] <cbx33> like a week ago
[12:23] <Tonio_> can sound strange, but I did my first website the day I got internet at home
[12:23] <Tonio_> and I started contributing to ubuntu the day I decided to switch to linux on the desktop, one year ago
[12:23] <Tonio_> ;)
[12:23] <cbx33> wow excellent
[12:24] <Tonio_> one and a half exactly ;)
[12:24] <cbx33> heheh nice
[12:24] <cassidy> "png is not a good format to add in an source package (its a binary format)."  --> I'm not the only one to find that stupid?
[12:24] <cbx33> cassidy, where's the quote from :p
[12:24] <Tonio_> cbx33: and beleive, it is really hard to help when you just understand what the difference bewteen gtkl and qt is lol
[12:24] <cassidy> cbx33: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rasmol/+bug/39427
[12:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39427 in rasmol "Package doesn't have an icon" [Normal,Confirmed] 
[12:25] <Tonio_> cassidy: I agree with this
[12:25] <Tonio_> I personnaly use an svg file and use an algo to generate pngs during the build
[12:25] <Tonio_> that's the best way to do
[12:25] <cassidy> why? it doesn't change anything
[12:25] <Tonio_> cassidy: it changes ONE thing
[12:26] <Tonio_> a source is supposed to "modifyable"
[12:26] <cbx33> Tonio_, I agree
[12:26] <Tonio_> and sorry, but a png isn't modifyable the same way an svg is...
[12:26] <Tonio_> I don't like debian folders with non docbook files for man
[12:26] <cassidy> if the file IS a png file. It's stupid to convert it into xpm to make it png during the build
[12:26] <Tonio_> like direct .1 files........ they are unmodifyable
[12:27] <Tonio_> cassidy: in that case yes
[12:27] <pkern> Tonio_: Eh. If they are the source file? roff files are modifyable.
[12:27] <Tonio_> if the provided file is a png in the tarball, I don't mind
[12:27] <Tonio_> but I've seen people adding pngs to the debian folder
[12:27] <Tonio_> I don't like that
[12:27] <cassidy> and there are tons of package with png in their source
[12:27] <pkern> Tonio_: Things in the debian/ folder are supposed to be diffable against the tarball.
[12:27] <Tonio_> cassidy: yes, but reguarding the packaging, I prefer to add svg stuff than png one
[12:28] <Tonio_> if upstream adds png in the tarball, there is no reason to change that
[12:28] <Tonio_> of course :)
[12:28] <cbx33> indeed
[12:28] <Tonio_> although I would prefer to have svg files inside :)
[12:28] <slomo_> Tonio_: there exist people that write roff by hand instead of writing docbook ;)
[12:28] <cassidy> Tonio_: ok, thanks for explanation :)
[12:28] <pkern> slomo_: Count me on your list. ;)
[12:28] <slomo_> and if there is only a png use the png uuencoded in the diff
[12:28] <Tonio_> slomo_: there are people that can generate a binary using 1 and 0 ;)
[12:29] <Tonio_> there are genius (almost crazy) ;)
[12:29] <slomo_> and send it upstream
[12:29] <slomo_> Tonio_: there are weird people out there, yes ;)
[12:29] <Tonio_> cassidy: look at the source package for wlassistant for example
[12:29] <pkern> Tonio_: What do you say about People writing LaTeX?
[12:29] <pkern> Tonio_: Not that roff is that different, in principle.
[12:30] <slomo_> pkern: like me? ;)
[12:30] <Tonio_> cassidy: instead of adding pngs to the debian folder, I'm using an svg file and generate svgs during the build
[12:30] <pkern> Tonio_: Which needs such a builder as a build-dep.
[12:30] <Tonio_> pkern: I don't know latex enough to talk about that :)
[12:30] <slomo_> Tonio_: and what happens when you don't have a svg but only a svg? :P
[12:30] <Tonio_> slomo_: I'm doing the svg ;)
[12:30] <pkern> I don't consider writing SGML as so superior.
[12:30] <Tonio_> as I did with adept for example :)
[12:31] <Tonio_> svg is nicer since you don't have size limitations with it
[12:31] <slomo_> Tonio_: well, i am not talented enough to create nice icons :P but i would do them as svg too
[12:31] <Tonio_> so in order to build clean icons, I think svg as a base is the nicer choice
[12:31] <slomo_> Tonio_: but when i add an icon i get it from someone else (upstream most of the time) and when it's png i can't do anything about it
[12:32] <pkern> Tonio_: In order to use a desktop to use only free software is the nicer choice.
[12:32] <Tonio_> slomo_: no need to be talented :) consider adept is my first svg job;)
[12:32] <pkern> Tonio_: Sometimes you get binary files and you can't help it.
[12:32] <Tonio_> it took me about 12 hours to do it since my skills were about zero :)
[12:32] <cassidy> Tonio_: ok ok. We can do that from xpm file too ?
[12:32] <pkern> Tonio_: Just as like sometimes one needs to use proprietary software.
[12:32] <Tonio_> pkern: that can happen of course
[12:32] <slomo_> pkern: yes? when for example? :)
[12:32] <Tonio_> I do use proprietary software when there are no alternatives
[12:32] <pkern> slomo_: I have yet to see nice math software.
[12:33] <Tonio_> like java.... I can avoid using it for my work, and have no pb with this
[12:33] <pkern> slomo_: Maple and Mathematica come to mind.
[12:33] <slomo_> pkern: ok, accepted... i thought you meant for the icon stuff... i use mathematica myself
[12:33] <Tonio_> I just think a source work has to be full source based
[12:33] <pkern> slomo_: In general.
[12:33] <Tonio_> and png isn't ;)
[12:33] <pkern> slomo_: It was just an analogy.
[12:34] <Tonio_> cassidy: xpm files don't give a good result with big icons, so I generally hate it....
[12:34] <Tonio_> svg is way nicer, although it is a bit bigger, I admit
[12:35] <Tonio_> but what is 2 kB disk usage nowadays ?
[12:35] <pkern> Tonio_: Consider the 100 USD laptop
[12:35] <pkern> Tonio_: Not that they need colourful icons
[12:36] <Tonio_> pkern: I don't consider them since this project will never work....
[12:36] <slomo_> Tonio_: but about java... i have yet to see a reason why i should install one of the commercial jre/jdk... for everything i need classpath/gij is good enough
[12:36] <pkern> Tonio_: It won't?
[12:36] <Tonio_> pkern: I don't consider giving "pseudo" computers to poor people is a solution...
[12:36] <Tonio_> pkern: I hope it will, but I don't think it will
[12:36] <pkern> Tonio_: What's so pseudo about them?
[12:37] <pkern> Tonio_: You share this attitude with Gates. ;)
[12:37] <Tonio_> pkern: the ability to perform simple tasks the same way that we can do it from 10 years
[12:37] <pkern> Tonio_: Which are?
[12:37] <Tonio_> pkern: and ? bill gates is certainly wrong on many points, but I think considering his experience is helping africa for example
[12:37] <pkern> Tonio_: Heck, I even use a P2-350 myself for video streaming. And they have a 500 MHz.
[12:37] <Tonio_> he should have good reasons to beleive that can't work
[12:38] <Tonio_> and yes, I share this opinion on that point :)
[12:38] <Tonio_> I don't have any problems with this
[12:38] <Tonio_> pkern: they have 500 mhz, but no hdd, and no battery
[12:38] <Tonio_> what can you do with it ?
[12:38] <hub> Tonio_: Bill Gates opinion on this matter is purely FUD
[12:38] <Tonio_> no multimedia, no cpu usage or it might shutdown in 5 minutes........
[12:39] <hub> Tonio_: because he has been turned down
[12:39] <Tonio_> honnestly, those 100 USD pcs are a shame
[12:39] <pkern> Tonio_: half a gig of hdd is not enough?
[12:39] <Tonio_> hub: it may, I didn't say "I agree with his arguments", I just share the same opinion, but with MY understanding and MY arguments
[12:39] <Tonio_> pkern: exactly
[12:40] <hub> Tonio_: the OLPC is about education
[12:40] <pkern> Ew.
[12:40] <hub> education for everybody
[12:40] <hub> education is a right that some countries do not offer, unles you have money. (/me points at a few G8 countries)
[12:40] <pkern> Tonio_: 1:10 physical work to battery energy isn't too bad, either.
[12:41] <Tonio_> pkern: I think is can be possible to provide really better stuff for 100 USD
[12:41] <pkern> hub: Well does G8 include Russia?
[12:41] <Tonio_> can you imagin the number of computers companies trash every year ?
[12:41] <pkern> Tonio_: Oh. I guess the UN really wants to hear how. Seriously.
[12:41] <hub> Tonio_: go ahead, submit your design?
[12:41] <Tonio_> PIII 1.2 gigs with 256 megs of ram
[12:41] <pkern> Tonio_: They aren't better...?
[12:42] <pkern> Tonio_: There are projects collecting those, yes.
[12:42] <hub> Tonio_: you also forget that that thse computer needs a 220V AC plug
[12:42] <pkern> Tonio_: How do they get the power for them in Africa? And where are the trashed monitors?
[12:42] <Tonio_> pkern: in my opinion, it would be better to recycle those computers that can perfectly do the job
[12:42] <hub> Tonio_: the one you threw away
[12:42] <pkern> Tonio_: Mind you... You don't have power everywhere in Africa.
[12:42] <pkern> Tonio_: Heck, you don't even have water everywhere.
[12:42] <hub> Tonio_: and how do they use it? how do they bring it home?
[12:42] <pkern> And solar power is expensive.
[12:43] <pkern> hub: At school there's another set ;)
[12:43] <Tonio_> pkern: people that don't have power need lots of things before informatics.........
[12:43] <Tonio_> like power ;)
[12:43] <pkern> Tonio_: Perhaps... education?
[12:43] <Tonio_> like water network
[12:43] <pkern> Tonio_: They shouldn't learn informatics.
[12:43] <hub> Tonio_: *education*
[12:43] <Tonio_> pkern: and ? education doesn't obviously require a computer
[12:43] <pkern> Tonio_: But get a general education.
[12:43] <Tonio_> don't forget the world didn't start in 1990
[12:43] <hub> Tonio_: you are spoiled, you live in a country were you all have electricity and free post secondary education
[12:43] <hub> quasi-free
[12:43] <Tonio_> yes, they need education
[12:43] <pkern> Tonio_: Education without the internet is hard nowadays. How are they expected to participate in the world.
[12:44] <Tonio_> pkern: I don't agree
[12:44] <hub> pkern: not even
[12:44] <slomo_> Tonio_: about the nm plugin... why do you reload the dbus configuration in postinst?
[12:44] <Tonio_> education without internet is perfectly possible.......
[12:44] <hub> Tonio_: you can ask your questions on #olpc
[12:44] <pkern> hub: If one thinks that they should solve their problems on their own, given sufficient education, is it.
[12:44] <Tonio_> I didn't saw a computer at schol before I was 20, and that didn't prevent myself to learn mathematics, history etc......
[12:45] <hub> Tonio_: but you had books, didn't you?
[12:45] <cassidy> Tonio_: How can i generate a xpm from a svg ? It seems rsvg-convert doesn't do that
[12:45] <hub> cassidy: from any PNG
[12:45] <Tonio_> slomo_: I only did that since the package I used as a based did it, and I assumed there was a good reason to do it ;)
[12:45] <hub> cassidy: ImageMagick can do that
[12:45] <Tonio_> slomo_: I didn't investigate more than this :)
[12:45] <Tonio_> cassidy: I never use xpm
[12:45] <cassidy> Tonio_: it's for Debian menu
[12:46] <Tonio_> cassidy: but there are ways to generate png files from an svg ;)
[12:46] <Tonio_> look at wlassistant for the complete mecanisme
[12:46] <slomo_> Tonio_: hmm... ok, it doesn't hurt so let's leave it ;)
[12:46] <Tonio_> cassidy: hum....... I assume you can do svg -> png -> xpm
[12:46] <cassidy> so i do png -> svg. I put the svg in the package and during the build : svg -> png -> xpm 0_o
[12:46] <Tonio_> but I don't know if direct conversion is possible
[12:47] <Tonio_> cassidy: png -> svg will give a very bad renderring
[12:47] <Tonio_> so if you don't have a "real" svg, better uuencoding the png file maybe :)
[12:47] <pkern> cassidy: Only if you trace the png somehow. Plain embedding isn't fun.
[12:47] <hub> Tonio_: if I had to stick to what I learned with my teachers, I wouldn't even be here
[12:47] <hub> Tonio_: that problem is that you are focused on technology
[12:48] <tritium> png -> svg would indeed be a suboptimal choice
[12:48] <cassidy> that you, you want svg everywhere ;)
[12:48] <Tonio_> hub: I am not
[12:48] <Tonio_> hub: I consider that to learn, except informatic things, books are the best way
[12:49] <Tonio_> and honnestly, I would prefer to ear, there are plans to get power to all africa, than giving them computers that can fit with the power missing issue......
[12:49] <tritium> Tonio_: and good educators!
[12:49] <Tonio_> I don't say that's right, and we will know if I'm wrong in a few years
[12:49] <Tonio_> tritium: yes, that abvious :)
[12:50] <tritium> certainly, though, I agree with you, Tonio_
[12:51] <Tonio_> I hope I'm wrong, but I'm sik of earing they have "pseudo medecine" for their health, "pseudo water full of virus", now pseudo computers looking like toys.......
[12:52] <Tonio_> it is not the good way to help them in MY opinion
[12:52] <slomo_> pkern: thanks for the sda bug :)
[12:52] <Tonio_> but as I'm not there to help, I think I may shut up on that point
[12:52] <pkern> slomo_: :p
[12:52] <pkern> slomo_: I don't know if it makes sense, though.
[12:53] <pkern> slomo_: Considering the Gobby Howl issue.
[12:53] <slomo_> pkern: it does :) what is the license of the icons etc?
[12:53] <pkern> slomo_: GPL
[12:53] <slomo_> copyright?
[12:54] <pkern> slomo_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gobby-logo.png
[12:54] <slomo_> ok
[12:54] <slomo_> could you add this url to the bugreport?
[12:54] <pkern> slomo_: Thomas Glatt <tom(at)0x539.de> is its creator.
[12:55] <pkern> Well, I could, yes.
[12:56] <pkern> slomo_: I just added the content, done.
[12:56] <pkern> slomo_: I took the SVG version from the repo anyway and scaled it. ;)
[12:58] <slomo_> pkern: ok :) if you could port gobby to avahi everything would be perfect then :)
[12:59] <pkern> slomo_: Well, I would also need to backport it to 0.3.x for it to be "perfect". |:
[12:59] <pkern> slomo_: I doubt it would be stable enough to enter Dapper as a change.
[12:59] <pkern> slomo_: So I'll target Avahi support for Dapper+1 with 0.4.x ;)
[12:59] <hub> Tonio_: you see computer like computer, not like a tool
[01:00] <Tonio_> hub: that's the oposite
[01:00] <Tonio_> I see computer like a replacement
[01:00] <Tonio_> without computer, I do in another way
[01:00] <Tonio_> that's due to the fact I didn't grew with computers
[01:01] <Tonio_> I started informatics from scratch at the age of 21
[01:01] <Tonio_> I don't have the feeling a computer is necessary in people's life
[01:01] <Tonio_> and moreover when they don't have light, water, schools and education
[01:02] <Tonio_> hub: I don't mean computer is a gadget, but certainly not a priority in people's life
[01:03] <slomo_> Tonio_: you have my vote for nm-openvpn now... :) is the vpnc one at the same state?
[01:03] <Tonio_> hub: and not having a computer at home didn't prevent myself from getting my mathematics diploma...
[01:03] <Tonio_> slomo_: yep, exactly yhe same, except I couldn't test it :)
[01:04] <Tonio_> hub: and at university I was the only one not using their computers, since I simply didn't feel the ned of it... so plz don't tell me "you don't see computers like tools"
[01:04] <Tonio_> that's exactly the oposite of my real feeling :)
[01:05] <pkern> Is vpnc Cisco-VPN-compatible?
[01:05] <hub> Tonio_: btw, #olpc is probably more appropriate
[01:05] <pkern> If so, I can test it.
[01:05] <tritium> pkern: sure is
[01:05] <tritium> it works quite well
[01:05] <Tonio_> hub: sure ;) but it is too late here in france to debate this :)
[01:05] <Tonio_> hub: ping me another day, I would take pleasure debating this :)
[01:05] <pkern> tritium: Last time I tried it didn't, but that experience is about a year old.
[01:06] <hub> Tonio_: I won't ping you for that
[01:06] <pkern> So time to try it again.
[01:06] <hub> Tonio_: I don't care
[01:06] <tritium> pkern: same for me.  It worked well for me about a year ago.
[01:06] <slomo_> pkern: it worked for me one year ago without problems ;)
[01:06] <hub> pkern: you are gobby developer as I understand>
[01:06] <pkern> slomo_: Perhaps it depends on the other side.
[01:06] <slomo_> Tonio_: but before uploading the plugins you really should coordinate with debian about package names etc :P
[01:07] <Tonio_> slomo_: I promiss to do it ;)
[01:07] <pkern> hub: Yes, one of two.
[01:07] <Tonio_> slomo_: we did that for the knetworkmanager stuff, there is no reason we don't do it for the vpn modules :)
[01:08] <slomo_> Tonio_: ok :) thanks
[01:11] <hub> pkern: 'cause AbiWord people (not me) are working on a collaborative writing as well
[01:11] <pkern> hub: I know.
[01:12] <pkern> hub: Too many people work on such a solution./
[01:12] <pkern> hub: I can't help that everybody reinvents the wheel.
[01:12] <hub> pkern: and they do not seem to be willing to try to share
[01:12] <pkern> hub: We'll build Gobby-over-Jabber support in the next weeks.
[01:12] <hub> but rather "hack something that work"
[01:12] <pkern> hub: Yep.
[01:13] <pkern> hub: We created a library for use in other programs when no Free Software solution was available.
[01:13] <pkern> hub: Probably MateEdit, the KDE client, will move to obby, but that's it.
[01:13] <pkern> Or rather KDE collaborative editor
[01:14] <pkern> hub: I'm a little bit disappointed |:
[01:14] <hub> pkern: me too
[01:15] <slomo_> pkern: btw, regarding avahi... you could write to the mailinglist... it's more likely to get an answer there
[01:16] <pkern> slomo_: I'm not so glad about the attitude of some Avahi devs anyway. I'll start another try later this day.
[01:17] <slomo_> pkern: what attitude?
[01:17] <pkern> slomo_: Regarding the howl compatibility layers they built. First they build it, then they threaten everyone who uses it and implement really silly warnings which confuse more than do help.
[01:19] <slomo_> pkern: heh... that's the only aspect i don't like as well but i don't care enough... people should just port to avahi, it's not too hard anyway
[01:20] <slomo_> pkern: and the message was meant to be annoying :P
[01:20] <pkern> slomo_: It's just that the two APIs are quite similar, Avahi provides more hooks, yes. But that's it.
[01:20] <pkern> slomo_: It did confuse me. I expected my software to be buggy.
[01:20] <pkern> slomo_: But then it spits warnings about *intended* behaviour.
[01:20] <pkern> slomo_: I'm ok with the startup message, I mean others.
[01:21] <pkern> slomo_: IMHO that's not ok.
[01:21] <slomo_> pkern: and the avahi api is much more structured, powerful and easier to use imho... and avahi is free in contrast to howl/mdnsresponder
[01:22] <pkern> slomo_: Howl's free. mDNSresponder is not.
[01:22] <pkern> slomo_: Howl runs on Windows, Avahi does not.
[01:23] <slomo_> pkern: not dfsg-free... and avahi should be easy to port to windows... it only has to be done by someone who knows windows :P
[01:23] <pkern> slomo_: The Howl dev wants to port Avahi's mDNSresponder to Howl 2. However I doubt that he'll push that project forward when Avahi builds on Win.
[01:23] <pkern> slomo_: Howl's DFSG-free. mDNSresponder is not, and it's included.
[01:24] <pkern> slomo_: I don't think it's that easy to port. Otherwise it would be done already.
[01:24] <pkern> slomo_: Due to DBUS et al.
[01:25] <slomo_> pkern: afaik they are working on a fifo based IPC for 0.7 which should work on windows too... and the other parts are easy to port or need no changes at all
[01:25] <slomo_> but better discuss that with mezcalero :P
[01:27] <pkern> I don't understand one thing. They built that howl compatibility layer. But why didn't they just port the applications. Perhaps I could find someone who complets the port using my work. ;)
[01:28] <slomo_> the compat layers were meant to be a iterim solution until apps are ported
[01:28] <slomo_> and they were done because it would be cool to have itunes etc running with avahi on os x and they could be done ;)
[01:30] <pkern> Eh?
[01:30] <pkern> Why would one want Avahi on OS X.
[01:30] <pkern> Seriously.
[01:31] <slomo_> for screenshots? ;)
[01:31] <pkern> And then... Those are not the Howl ones.
[01:31] <slomo_> yes, those are the libdns-sd ones
[01:31] <pkern> Oh yeah... let's get rid of that OS X integration, we want to replace it!
[01:32] <pkern> What about building a free GUI instead.
[01:32] <pkern> Less waste of resources.
[01:32] <slomo_> from what i saw the compat layers were only done because they could be done and to produce some screenshots ;)
[01:32] <pkern> Considering that those bindings are under APSL (which is not DFSG-free, I know... but then it's OSX, isn't it)
[01:32] <pkern> Oh well.
[01:33] <pkern> For nice screenshots I want to see Gobby ported to OSX. But that will never happen.
[01:33] <slomo_> why?
[01:34] <pkern> What? Why I want it ported or why it will never happen?
[01:34] <slomo_> why it will never happen
[01:34] <pkern> It's Gtk after all.
[01:34] <slomo_> there is a os x port of gtk
[01:34] <pkern> I know.
[01:35] <pkern> Not advanced enough to run seriously. |:
[01:35] <pkern> Perhaps it's worth another try to integrate it into DarwinPorts.
[01:35] <slomo_> hm
[01:35] <slomo_> would be a nice SoC project :)
[01:35] <pkern> But then Avahi is more of a high priority.
[01:35] <slomo_> to finish it i mean
[01:35] <pkern> Too big I suppose.
[01:35] <pkern> Especially because Gtk's menu handling just isn't compatible with OS X's.
[01:36] <slomo_> some of the freebsd SoC projects were far bigger
[01:36] <pkern> slomo_: Were they taken and completed?
[01:36] <slomo_> taken but not completed afaik
[01:36] <pkern> slomo_: And do you know how advanced the OS X port already is?
[01:36] <slomo_> one was implementing journaling for the fs iirc
[01:36] <pkern> slomo_: I don't think they made much of a progress the last months, but I can be wrong.
[01:37] <slomo_> no idea... it was done by a imendio guy iirc?
[01:37] <pkern> I guess tomorrow is the next round of mentor organisation approvals/denials.
[01:37] <pkern> slomo_: Yep.
[01:38] <pkern> Hm, if strikethrough means completed then the roadmap looks nice.
[01:38] <slomo_> :)
[01:41] <pkern> n8
[02:22] <Kyral> Anyone wanna kill time by talking to me and a friend over HAM while we wait for Dapper to download?
[02:29] <crimsun> BddebianIsAGod? Word.
[02:29] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:29] <bddebian> crimsun: I thought you said I was an idiot? :_)
[02:30] <crimsun> bddebian: me? I may be an idiot, but I don't recall saying you're one. :)
[02:33] <bddebian> crimsun: You are FAR from an idiot
[02:33] <bddebian> You scolded me for uploading gxine :-)
[02:34] <crimsun> you didn't do anything wrong; I was just hoping to get input from Darren prior to an upload. There's no harm done.
[02:34] <bddebian> :-)
[02:56] <Toadstool> g'night everybody
[04:27] <bddebian> What the hell is xclip supposed to do?
[04:28] <bmonty> from the man page: "annoy the crap out of bddebian"
[04:28] <bmonty> :)
[04:28] <bddebian> Yuck, yuck :-)
[04:32] <bmonty> bddebian: sorry, isn't it supposed to be some kind of ancient clipboard viewer?
[04:33] <Yagisan> G'day all.
[04:33] <bddebian> Yeah and I hacked it to not use the /X11R6/ path but when I execut it, it doesn't do anything.  I don't get any errors but it doesn't do anything either.  Though that might be normal behaviour
[04:33] <bddebian> Heya Yagisan
[04:34] <Yagisan> bddebian: what's up ?
[04:34] <bddebian> Nada man, you?
[04:34] <bmonty> bddebian: I played with some of X apps awhile ago and came to two conclusions:
[04:34] <bmonty> 1. the X build system is fuckin wierd
[04:34] <bmonty> 2. These apps are not very useful anymore
[04:35] <bddebian> bmonty: xmkmf is broken currently yes :-)
[04:35] <bddebian> Well not broken but still using the X11R6 path
[04:36] <Yagisan> slomo__: around ?
[04:36] <bmonty> bddebian: yeah, I think any app that is still broken in that way is probably not very useful
[04:36] <bmonty> bddebian: maybe a morgue candiate?
[04:36] <bddebian> Well someone must use it, there is a bug filed on it ;-P
[04:36] <bddebian> Heya tritium
[04:37] <tritium> hi bddebian
[05:10] <Yagisan> bbl
[09:22] <sivang> slomo__: I changed what you asked with respect to the package, now what's left is the s/binary-arch/binary-indep/
[09:22] <sivang> slomo__: but I want to understand fully what I'm doing before going on with the change, should I just change it such that binay-indep will be the main target that calls everything underneath it?
[09:47] <Hobbsee> enyc: what's the latest version of it?
[09:49] <enyc> Hobbsee: 2.1.8 upstream, 2.1.7+2.1.8rc1 in unstable/testing
[09:49] <Hobbsee> ah ok
[09:50] <Hobbsee> enyc: it's too late for dapper...but dapper+1 it should get updated
[09:50] <Hobbsee> esp if you remind someone about it
[09:50] <enyc> kk
[09:50] <enyc> its not much changes.. mostly just mailman security updates internally...
[09:51] <enyc> Hobbsee: I noticed similar abuot 'freedoom' and a bugfix was done, and this was then UVF-exception updated (but its not a arch-specific (compiled) or dependancy-headache package)
[09:52] <Hobbsee> oh ok.  if it were only bugfixes, then it could probably go in - but if there were new features as well, and if the current package functions...particularly this late in feature freeze...
[09:55] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I think we could request an UVF exception for mailman, its development is slow and stable enough for that.  It'd make pitti's job easier, if nothing else.
[09:55] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ah ok
[09:56] <Mithrandir> it's in main, though, so it'd have to be post-beta.
[09:56] <Hobbsee> and when's the beta?
[09:56] <Mithrandir> Thursday.
[09:56] <Mithrandir> as in, dapper beta.
[09:56] <Hobbsee> right, yep
[09:56] <Hobbsee> yes, of course - unlikely that it's anything else :P
[09:57] <ajmitch> hi
[09:57] <Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch
[09:57] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
[09:58] <ajmitch> how's it going?
[10:01] <Hobbsee> good, some woman decided to crash into me today..
[10:01] <Hobbsee> tried to reverse up a one way street - right into me.
[10:01] <ajmitch> very clever of her
[10:03] <Hobbsee> very, yes
[11:03] <slomo__> sivang: ping?
[11:04] <ivoks> hi
[11:04] <ivoks> what do you think, is it better to include SPF support in spamassassin or not?
[11:05] <sivang> slomo__: pong, did you see my backog msg?
[11:05] <sivang> slomo__: about the s/binary-arch/binary-indep/
[11:06] <Toadstool> good morning everybody
[11:06] <slomo__> hi Toadstool
[11:06] <Toadstool> hi slomo__
[11:06] <slomo__> sivang: yes... what do you want to know? :)
[11:07] <sivang> slomo__: Well, I want to know how to change the order of stuff :) and not break the current which builds and works
[11:08] <sivang> slomo__: I mean, is it just plain s/binary-arch/binary-indep/ ?
[11:09] <slomo__> sivang: just try to understand the makefile :) there's a build, binary-arch, binary-indep and clean rule... the binary-arch rule should be empty, the binary-indep rule should include everything needed to build that thing, the build rule should call everything that is needed to build (arch and indep) and the clean rule should clean up everything
[11:13] <Toadstool> stupid question: why does debuild preserve +x right on two scripts when running dh_install whereas my pbuilder doesn't? am I missing something?
[11:42] <Toadstool> I am a moron, forget about my question...
[12:47] <koke> hi all!
[01:22] <ajmitch> hey koke
[02:08] <MatrixZ> Real: http://www.mailingmania.com/pages/ptp.php?refid=matrixz
[02:08] <MatrixZ> Real: http://www.mailingmania.com/pages/ptp.php?refid=matrixz
[02:08] <MatrixZ> Real: http://www.mailingmania.com/pages/ptp.php?refid=matrixz
[02:21] <zul> heylo
[02:43] <zakame> hi all
[02:48] <Toadstool> hi zakame
[02:49] <zakame> hello Toadstool =)
[03:10] <zakame> hi all
[03:11] <Hobbsee> hi zakame
[03:11] <zakame> hi Hobbsee
[03:37] <zakame> hi ajmitch__
[07:05] <monzie> hi all
[07:05] <jpatrick> hi monzie
[07:05] <monzie> hi jpatrick
[07:15] <bddebian> Heya gang
[07:21] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[09:16] <Kyral> Is it just me or are the @ubuntu.com addresses getting spammed like nobodies business?
[09:18] <bddebian> I wouldn't know, mine has never worked :'-(
[09:18] <\sh> hmm..no...my address never went public :)
[09:18] <\sh> i receive enough spam for my assassin with @sourcecode.de :)
[09:18] <Kyral> I use it as my "professional" address
[09:20] <Tm_T> well
[09:20] <hub> \sh: hey
[09:20] <hub> \sh: wassup?
[09:20] <Tm_T> I don't have one, so no spam problems here ;-P
[09:20] <\sh> g'evening hub :) still in xandros business? :)
[09:20] <hub> yeah
[09:21] <\sh> heard they have now a one man office in germany :)
[09:21] <hub> yeah
[09:22] <\sh> hehe...and I heard some other rumours..but this is not for the public :)
[09:23] <Tm_T> \sh: it wasn't me!
[09:24] <\sh> nono...has nothing to do with anybody here :)
[09:24] <Tm_T> damned
[09:24] <Tm_T> and just when I thought I did something big
[09:24] <Tm_T> oh well, I also was sleepig ->
[09:24] <Tm_T> sleeping even
[09:25] <\sh> I finally managed to win the fight against kamions cdbuilding monster scripts :)
[09:27] <\sh> grmpf...disconnect
[09:33] <Kyral> lol, I love the wording of the NetHack license
[09:59] <wasabi> I uploaded something a few days ago and never got an upload nor reject message (upload.ubuntu.com). I have a feeling it was my key. I recently removed the expiration date, because it expired.
[09:59] <wasabi> Anyway to check? :)
[10:00] <bddebian> wasabi: Reject messages are b0rked last I knew.  Especially unstable -> dapper stuff in changelog
[10:00] <wasabi> Well... not sure why my uploaded never happened.
[10:24] <ajmitch> hi
[10:24] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[10:46] <bddebian> Later folks
[11:09] <cartel_> hey motus
[11:10] <LaserJock> hi cartel_
[11:16] <cbx33> evenin all
[11:32] <RoXaNuTzA> hi all
[11:32] <crimsun> UGH.
[11:32] <crimsun> do NOT do that.
[11:32] <RoXaNuTzA> topic ?
[11:33] <crimsun> yes, the topic.
[11:33] <RoXaNuTzA> sorry
[11:41] <LaserJock> what the heck was that?
[11:42] <crimsun> no idea, but I'm in a foul mood this evening, so I apologise in advance if I seem snappy
[11:46] <chillywilly> what an idiot