[12:19] <mdke> Riddell, poke. privmsg?
[12:20] <Riddell> ok
[12:26] <dholbach> see you guys
[02:49] <ispiked> hi, I'm looking for how to find information on the new, graphical debian installer.
[02:50] <neuralis> ispiked: debian doesn't have one; you mean ubuntu. the installer is called espresso. what information are you looking for?
[02:50] <ispiked> neuralis: I thought expresso was for livecds, not just a regular old install.
[02:51] <neuralis> ispiked: espresso runs on the livecd, but is used for setting up a regular old installation.
[02:51] <neuralis> ispiked: in other words, if the livecd runs and you can start espresso, you don't need an installation cd.
[02:51] <ispiked> neuralis: so expresso is probably what I used to install 5.10?
[02:52] <neuralis> ispiked: no. 5.10 has the textual/curses installer (d-i).
[02:52] <ispiked> neuralis: ok... how can one install dapper?
[02:52] <neuralis> ispiked: unless that's what you meant by "graphical" debian installer, but that's been around for a while now.
[02:53] <LaserJock> ispiked: you can install dapper from either the Dapper livecd or install cd
[02:53] <ispiked> neuralis: that is not what I meant.
[02:53] <neuralis> ispiked: see laserjock's message about installing dapper.
[02:53] <ispiked> I know that one can use expresso with the livecd, but what can they use with the install cd?
[02:54] <neuralis> ispiked: it's e*s*presso, not the 's'.
[02:54] <ispiked> neuralis: ok.
[02:54] <neuralis> ispiked: the install cd still comes with the same textual/curses installer as before (d-i).
[02:54] <ispiked> neuralis: are there plans to integrate espresso with the install cd?
[02:54] <ispiked> neuralis: making it succeed d-i?
[02:55] <LaserJock> no
[02:55] <neuralis> ispiked: well, there are plans to not ship the install cd via shipit.
[02:55] <neuralis> ispiked: thus making the install cd unnecessary for those for whom the livecd runs fine, which indirectly means that espresso will be succeeding d-i.
[02:56] <ispiked> personally, I'd like a graphical installer without having to load a livecd.
[02:56] <ispiked> but I guess I'll have to get my fix with other distros.
[03:02] <Burgundavia> ispiked: the live cd installer is actually the fastest installer I have ever used
[03:02] <ispiked> Burgundavia: yeah, but you have to take into account load time for the livecd.
[03:03] <Burgundavia> ispiked: that includes that
[03:03] <Burgundavia> ubuntu is also the fastest live cd I have tried
[03:15] <neuralis> ispiked: if an extra 1-2 minutes wait to get to an installation process that takes 15-20 minutes is enough impetus for you to move to a different distribution... well.
[03:16] <ispiked> neuralis: I was just joking.
[03:17] <neuralis> ispiked: good. i never know these days; prolonged exposure to gentoo can play tricks on people's heads. ;)
[03:19] <zul> gentoo rots your brain
[05:41] <jadaz87> hello i was wondering if someone could help me with the dapper live cd customization since this is the devel channel
[05:42] <jadaz87> anyone? lol
[05:43] <jadaz87> i whould not want to try the breezy live cd customization wiki on the dapper live cd lol
[05:45] <LaserJock>  jadaz87: have you tried the wiki page?
[05:46] <jadaz87> 	i whould not want to try the breezy live cd customization wiki on the dapper live cd lol
[05:46] <jadaz87> there is not a dapper live cd customization wiki page :-(
[05:47] <LaserJock> try it, just substituting dapper for breezy
[05:48] <LaserJock> I think some people have had luck with it, others have had problems
[05:48] <LaserJock> but I'm not much help
[05:48] <jadaz87> do you know anyone is particular who whould be able to help me?
[05:50] <LaserJock> not really
[05:50] <LaserJock> you might try to find people who have done custom cds
[05:52] <jadaz87> i really want to talk to the livecd devel crew but i do not know if that is possible
[05:53] <LaserJock> I'm not sure who all is involved, but I think they are probably asleep now
[05:54] <jadaz87> yeah oh well :-(
[05:55] <jadaz87> LaserJock is there a list of places where every "ubuntu" phrase / logo on the livecd and installcd is kept?
[05:56] <LaserJock> yikes, I don't know but I would imagine not.
[05:56] <jadaz87> like the icon on the app car is in  /usr/share/icon/hires/48x48/developer-icon.png or something
[05:56] <jadaz87> oh ok :-\
[05:56] <jadaz87> bar*
[06:10] <Chipzz> jadaz87: what's with the lol? lol ;)
[06:10] <jadaz87> Chipzz i want to know
[06:11] <jadaz87> if there is a list of all the places ubuntu the phrase and anything pertaining to the term ubuntu whther artowrk icons is
[06:11] <jadaz87> so i can change them
[06:12] <Chipzz> nevermind, you missed the pun :P
[06:12] <jadaz87> oh ok
[06:13] <jadaz87> well Goodnight Ubuntu Devel
[06:16] <Chipzz> neuralis: ispiked was actually asking a very valid question; but the graphical installer is a feature planned for etch iirc, not ready in time for dapper
[06:21] <ispiked> Chipzz: yeah. I was just confused about livecd installer vs. graphical installer. I initially thought this new installer for dapper was something similar to anaconda.
[06:30] <Burgundavia> ispiked: nope, although there is effort underway to do a graphical front end to d-i, with gtk
[06:32] <ispiked> Burgundavia: is there a bug on launchpad for it?
[06:33] <Burgundavia> ispiked: for what, a graphical installer? the work for that is ongoing, and not suitable for dapper
[06:33] <ispiked> Burgundavia: yep. 
[06:33] <Burgundavia> ispiked: for espresso, the live cd installer, file bugs as you find them
[06:34] <ispiked> Burgundavia: you misunderstood me.
[06:34] <ispiked> Burgundavia: Is there a bug to track the new debian-installer gtk front-end on launchpad?
[06:34] <Burgundavia> nope
[06:34] <ispiked> Burgundavia: the future stuff.
[06:34] <ispiked> Burgundavia: ok.
[06:34] <Burgundavia> that work is being done exclusively within debian, afaik
[06:34] <ispiked> Burgundavia: so it's that "underway"? hehe.
[06:34] <ispiked> Burgundavia: ok.
[06:35] <Burgundavia> ubuntu made the policy decision to create a livecd installer back in montreal last year
[06:36] <Burgundavia> tbh, I really don't see the point on an anaconda style installer
[06:36] <ispiked> Burgundavia: yeah?
[06:37] <Burgundavia> the live cd installer is far more useful for those who are trying ubuntu and the regular installer is great for those who know what they are doing
[06:37] <ispiked> Burgundavia: yeah, I was thinking along similar lines.
[06:46] <fabbione> morning guys
[07:02] <ajmitch> hi
[07:03] <Chipzz> Burgundavia: yeah, but a graphical version of the regular installer would be nice polish ;)
[07:04] <Burgundavia> Chipzz: but if only the server guys are seeing it, who cares?
[07:05] <Chipzz> will there be no regular install cd's for ubuntu then, only live-cd's?
[07:06] <infinity> There will be ISOs, but we don't intend to ship the CDs pre-pressed, if espresso works out.
[07:06] <Burgundavia> they will be there, just hidden
[07:06] <infinity> Since 99% of the people we send shipit discs to should be satisfied by the combo livecd/espresso, and we get to ship 1 CD instead of 2.
[07:07] <Burgundavia> if you just download ubuntu, you will get the livecd
[07:07] <Chipzz> that's what I thought (only /shipping/ live-cd's)
[07:08] <Chipzz> remind me again, espresso doesn't use debootstrap, right?
[07:08] <infinity> Nope.
[07:08] <infinity> It copies the installed system from the livefs.
[07:08] <infinity> (Of course, the livefs was created with debootstrap, but that's not really what you were asking)
[07:09] <Chipzz> I don't know why, but this somehow feels wrong to me
[07:09] <fabbione> Chipzz: it's just a different way to install. It works just fine
[07:09] <Chipzz> I guess I just have more confidence in debootstrap than copying a live cd
[07:10] <fabbione> Chipzz: it's not much different from when you tar your system up and untar it somewhere like on a new disk
[07:10] <infinity> In some ways, it's actually more reliable, in that we're essential copying a system image, so we know exactly how it will turn out.
[07:10] <Chipzz> fabbione: and I don't have much confidence in that either ;)
[07:10] <Chipzz> (I use cpio for one, if I ever do that, but that's a detail I guess :P)
[07:11] <fabbione> Chipzz: same story.. it's the concept that matters.. not the tool
[07:11] <Chipzz> if I reinstall an existing installation, I use debootstrap; dpkg --get-selections ; chroot dpkg --set-selections ; apt-get dselect-upgrade
[07:13] <Chipzz> anyway... how does espresso look wrt oem installs?
[07:13] <infinity> It's not meant for OEM installs at all.  You want the regular install CD for that.
[07:14] <Chipzz> uhu...
[07:14] <lifeless> I'm curious, why it was chosen to copy the livefs
[07:14] <lifeless> not suggesting its wrong, just curious
[07:15] <fabbione> lifeless: because a livefs is just a debootstrap of the ubuntu-desktop with more stuff
[07:15] <fabbione> and you don't need to carry around all the .debs
[07:15] <lifeless> makes sense
[07:15] <lifeless> and you can then uninstall unneeded packages
[07:15] <Chipzz> sth totally different... what's the reasoning for splitting up the kernel in smaller udeb's, but having just linux-image and linux-restricted modules as debs?
[07:16] <fabbione> Chipzz: udebs are used for the installer only.
[07:16] <fabbione> it makes some boot media quite small
[07:16] <Chipzz> I know that
[07:16] <Chipzz> but the linux-image size is getting grosser and grosser each day
[07:17] <Chipzz> and I guess will not be decreasing
[07:17] <janimo> infinity: can you spin a new xubuntu live?
[07:18] <Chipzz> take into account that you also need twice the space the actual unpacked deb takes (for temporary files I guess)...
[07:18] <daq4th> .oO(dependencies are overrated)
[07:19] <infinity> janimo: Yeahp.  Can do.
[07:19] <Chipzz> fabbione: what I was asking is, why is a similar split /not/ done for the kernel debs?
[07:19] <janimo> infinity: cool, thanks
[07:20] <fabbione> Chipzz: it's pointless on the kernel deb. once you rebuild the Depends: list you will pull in again everything
[07:20] <fabbione> Chipzz: + the fact that not having all the kernel installed will limit machine usage a lot
[07:20] <fabbione> like hotpluggable devices
[07:21] <Chipzz> fabbione: not if you have a lot of meta-packages like we have for linux-image and linux-resistricted-moules atm
[07:21] <fabbione> Chipzz: and what's the point of splitting if you are going to reassemble it on the target system anyway?
[07:23] <Chipzz> you're starting from the assumption that you are going to install them all again here, which may not be the case?
[07:23] <fabbione> as it stands now is the case
[07:24] <fabbione> and not installing all of it has sense only in case of embedded devices
[07:24] <fabbione> on normal machine you want all of it
[07:24] <fabbione> generally speaking at least
[07:24] <Chipzz> there's lots of stuff I do not want as a matter of fact
[07:26] <Chipzz> what I may want is drivers for hotpluggable devices; but 95% of the chipset drivers, alternative fs drivers, lvm and evms (which also pull in daemons which I cannot uninstall or disable!), possibly wireless chipset drivers for desktops, ...
[07:26] <Chipzz> those I do not want/need
[07:26] <fabbione> those are what a lot of other people wants
[07:26] <fabbione> and there is a chain of depends in the kernel that you must respect
[07:27] <fabbione> do you want scsi?
[07:27] <Chipzz> that's a tricky one ;) *g*
[07:27] <Chipzz> I want the generic scsi driver, yes
[07:27] <fabbione> why?
[07:27] <lifeless> I want evms !
[07:28] <fabbione> i need lvm
[07:28] <Chipzz> fabbione: sata, usb devices, firewire devices, ...
[07:28] <lifeless> I want evms to boot again actually ;)
[07:29] <fabbione> Chipzz: so you see.. break that depends and it is a mess
[07:29] <fabbione> somebody that doesn't know that
[07:29] <fabbione> will uninstall scsi (WTH I DON'T NEED SCSI BECAUSE I AM A 31337 SATA USER)
[07:29] <fabbione> and things will go south
[07:30] <Chipzz> fabbione: now *that* is what dependencies are for ;)
[07:31] <lifeless> Chipzz: how big is your flash drive ?
[07:32] <Chipzz> fabbione: but take lrm for example... maybe I only need the nvidia stuff, and it also pulls in a lot of wireless drivers including firmware, firmware which is duplicated in every lrm deb
[07:33] <Chipzz> alternatively, I may also want one of these wireless drivers, and it pulls in nvidia-kernel-common
[07:33] <fabbione> Chipzz: you really don't gain much other that saving very little space
[07:33] <fabbione> and add a lot of headacke in maintaing the kernel
[07:33] <Chipzz> very little? I beg to very much differ
[07:34] <crimsun> I think Chipzz should offer to rewrite the maintainer scripts.
[07:34] <Chipzz> Package: linux-image-2.6.15-19-686
[07:34] <lifeless> Chipzz: I asked, how big is the flash drive you are booting from ?
[07:34] <Chipzz> Installed-Size: 60632
[07:35] <Chipzz> lifeless: I'm not booting from a flashdrive
[07:35] <Chipzz> fabbione: I would hardly call 60MB for a single kernel image "a little"
[07:35] <lifeless> then the smallest disk if you have a 3 year old machine is what - 20Gb in size
[07:35] <lifeless> 60Mb -> 0.25% of your disk space.
[07:36] <Chipzz> linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15-19-686 is another 20MB of space
[07:36] <Chipzz> lifeless: people having linux-image installed doing dist-upgrades pull in a new image every other couple of weeks, without the old images getting uninstalled automagically
[07:37] <fabbione> Chipzz: wrong.. 
[07:37] <Chipzz> lifeless: and the issue is not about hard-disks, it's about your / or /boot partition
[07:37] <lifeless> Chipzz: they get uninstalled automatically. 
[07:37] <Chipzz> not when doing apt-get dist-upgrade
[07:37] <fabbione> Chipzz: only abi bumps are not deinstalled
[07:37] <Chipzz> maybe with aptitude they do, dunnow
[07:37] <fabbione> for very good reasons
[07:38] <lifeless> aptitude and synaptic both do
[07:38] <fabbione> anyway till now i didn't see a single good reason for splitting the kernel.
[07:38] <fabbione> other than seeking for troubles
[07:39] <Chipzz> I have boxes which need cleaning up, having 5 kernels installed
[07:39] <fabbione> Chipzz: if you have these issues don't use a development branch. stay with stable.
[07:39] <Chipzz> and my first ubuntu install had a rather small /, which I ran into trouble with every time upgrading my kernel
[07:39] <infinity> I don't think the "I run a development release and keep all my kernels" use case is a prticularly interesting one.
[07:39] <zyga> good morning
[07:39] <infinity> I'd expect that people who run development releases know how to remove packages.
[07:40] <Chipzz> infinity: I do ;)
[07:40] <Chipzz> but sometimes I'm lazy, or, I just want to keep an old kernel to be safe if the new one doesn't work
[07:41] <fabbione> so stop being lazy
[07:42] <Chipzz> I prolly should ;)
[07:42] <Chipzz> but you can't deny the kernel is rather fat (and keeps growing)
[07:42] <Chipzz> but let me give another example
[07:43] <Chipzz> xorg is split up in different servers (largely for reasons of upstream splitting it up I guess)
[07:43] <Chipzz> so why do we pull in more and more external modules in the kernel?
[07:43] <jdub> "Ubuntu, which has only been in distribution since 1994, is now cited as the most popular of all the distributions."
[07:43] <jdub> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1950205,00.asp
[07:43] <jdub> awesome
[07:43] <Chipzz> heh, 1994? :)
[07:44] <ajmitch> jdub: where wsa it hiding all those years?
[07:45] <fabbione> hey jdong 
[07:45] <robitaille> no wonder Warty worked so well after 10 years of testing :)
[07:45] <fabbione> bah
[07:45] <fabbione> STOP MIXING NICKS
[07:45] <fabbione> jdub: 
[07:45] <jdub> hi fabbione :-)
[07:45] <fabbione> jdub: do you want fridge material?
[07:45] <jdub> fabbione: fire away!
[07:45] <Chipzz> I come from debian, where I used to build kernels myself with make-kpkg, but last I tried this broke for the ipw module on ubuntu
[07:45] <Chipzz> (due to firmware not being included)
[07:46] <fabbione> Chipzz: ok this is going offtopic now. 
[07:46] <fabbione> jdub: http://www.stdlib.net/~colmmacc/category/niagara/
[07:46] <jdub> fabbione: WHOA
[07:46] <Chipzz> fabbione: ok it is; but the question basically is, up till what point can you allow the kernel package to grow? 150MB? 200MB?
[07:47] <ajmitch> as soon as I get access to them.. 
[07:47] <zyga> fabbione: how did you get your hands on the T2K?
[07:47] <fabbione> Chipzz: we have already bigger packages in the archive that you sinstall and just don't know
[07:47] <fabbione> zyga: part of their developer program
[07:47] <fabbione> ajmitch: it's about time :)
[07:48] <ajmitch> fabbione: tell me about it - ITS at uni aren't the fastest of people
[07:48] <jdub> fabbione: 'heavy metal on speed' ;-)
[07:48] <fabbione> jdong: ehhe
[07:48] <fabbione> oh crack
[07:48] <zyga> fabbione: I envy you ;)
[07:48] <fabbione> jdong: please change nickname
[07:48] <fabbione> jdub: ehehe
[07:49] <fabbione> zyga: i didn't get it for free or forever.. i will have to return it and i had to do a lot of work on it..
[07:49] <zyga> I fully understand that
[07:50] <Chipzz> fabbione: not many ;) only one I can think of is OOo, which is the first thing I purge after an install anyway ;)
[07:50] <ajmitch> fabbione: we're going to be committing to running linux on these, most likely modifying ubuntu 
[07:51] <ajmitch> so I'll get to spend plenty of time with it, and won't have to return them :)
[07:51] <highvoltage> OMG, so it's true. Ubuntu *is* older than Debian!!!
[07:51] <neuralis> jdub: i've had a post stuck in the sounder moderation queue for a while. could you please let that through?
[07:51] <fabbione> ajmitch: can i at least get a pic of them?
[07:52] <ajmitch> fabbione: if I can get access to the server room, sure :)
[07:52] <fabbione> ehe
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> hey guys
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> check out libgtk2.0-common in dapper will you
[08:06] <bluefoxicy> it's a 2800 byte download
[08:06] <bluefoxicy> it installs damn fast, creates 3 80 byte files
[08:06] <bluefoxicy> synaptic seems to think it's 12.8 megs installed.
[08:07] <crimsun> huH?
[08:08] <infinity> Installed-Size: 12280
[08:08] <infinity> Cute.
[08:08] <crimsun> at least /usr/share/themes/Emacs/gtk-2.0-key/gtkrc isn't 80 bytes
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> okay so it's 3.5K there
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 82 2006-04-10 11:51 /usr/share/themes/Default/gtk-2.0-key/gtkrc
[08:10] <bluefoxicy> infinity:  synaptic definitely says 12.6MB here.
[08:11] <bluefoxicy> well
[08:11] <bluefoxicy> I guess it's a bug then.
[08:11] <infinity> Well, yes, I was pointing out that apt claims 12.280 MB here.  (Installed-Size is in k)
[08:11] <bluefoxicy> ah
[08:11] <bluefoxicy> I was trying to figure out how much it would cost to do a LiveCD with an X environment used as a graphical boot, instead of usplash
[08:12] <bluefoxicy> and figured I wanted GTK+ and ZEnity, because I want some scriptability
[08:12] <bluefoxicy> and was like
[08:12] <bluefoxicy> "..... 26 megs?  wtf?"
[08:12] <bluefoxicy> (libx11-6 + kdrive + gtk + zenity)
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> so i guess... well, hey, I could compress this stuff onto a squashfs and the initrd would mount it and pivot_root in, that would give me it in 2MB if I assume libgtk2.0-common is like.. a few bytes :P
[08:15] <pitti> Good morning
[08:15] <Mithrandir> hi pitti 
[08:15] <bluefoxicy> hi pitti :)
[08:16] <bluefoxicy> I will have to continue this later
[08:16] <bluefoxicy> but at least I know it's not unreasonable :)
[08:17] <janimo> infinity, wgetting the xubuntu livecd. thanks
[08:18] <pitti> hey Mithrandir, hi bluefoxicy 
[08:18] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: you're aware that the live cd already does persistence?
[08:18] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir: for its root?
[08:18] <Mithrandir> yes
[08:19] <bluefoxicy> how?
[08:19] <pitti> what's the current status of the CDs? Shall the current images be scrutinized, or is another update planned soon?
[08:19] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDPersistence
[08:19] <Mithrandir> pitti: ubuntu cds are ready to be tested.
[08:20] <pitti> Mithrandir: cool, then I'll do the full range again right after I finished my firefox stuff on breezy
[08:20] <Mithrandir> thanks
[08:21] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  interesting.
[08:22] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  I was thinking more locating removable devices and using find on them to locate control files and root images :)
[08:23] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: the live is going to be more modular for dapper+1, at least that's the plan.
[08:23] <Mithrandir> so making a version with langpacks will be a lot easier.
[08:24] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  what I'm aiming at is a core "Bootstrap" that is just the CD; "Boot Modules" that are automatically created by handing it a packaged .deb of a kernel image and whatever modules (-restricted-modules etc) and add kernels to the boot menu...
[08:25] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: you need a full chroot to build the initramfs though, not just the kernel .deb
[08:25] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  a "Base Module" (think Morphix) that's the first level root; "Extension Modules" that get loaded on top of it and have information inside them explaining what other EMs they depend on; and "Bootstrap Modules" in 3 phases that modify the bootstrapping process :)
[08:25] <nomed> bluefoxicy: unionfs should let you doing that easly
[08:25] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  this can't be created on the fly?
[08:25] <bluefoxicy> nomed:  of course.
[08:26] <pitti> wow, that works fine, they managed to not break the ABI :)
[08:26] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  initramfs == initrd
[08:26] <bluefoxicy> ?
[08:26] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: yes.
[08:27] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: well, modern kernels use initramfs-es which are mostly like old initrds except where they aren't.
[08:27] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  nod, not a problem.  That can easily be scripted.
[08:27] <bluefoxicy> the stuff is pretty generic.
[08:28] <bluefoxicy> the only thing different between 2 initrd files should probably be the actual modules in them; the scripts, /lib, and /bin should be more or less equivalent ne?
[08:28] <bluefoxicy> besides that, create a chroot using (was it?) jail, build, destroy chroot.
[08:29] <bluefoxicy> the only things I'm actually worried about right now are syncing up dpkg databases
[08:30] <bluefoxicy> I need a way to take one file system, compare it with another, and snapshot the list of changes made to the dpkg database.  If it was based on bdb or sqlite that would be pretty much a little bit of SQL and then executing some SQL to update everything consistently after stacking an EM; but with a flat file, I need to do a bit more work :)
[08:30] <nomed> bluefoxicy: what i do is to split the status files in pkge.status
[08:30] <nomed> and then i merge all of them while booting up the cd
[08:31] <nomed> depending on the module you selected ..
[08:31] <nomed> i didn't find anything better then that 
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> nomed:  I designed this whole thing in like 5 minutes in my head and have just been fleshing it out; my mastering process was "debbootstrap a base module, write to a squashfs; unionfs mount a blank directory over it, drop into a chroot() shell, run commands, exit, make squashfs of blank directory; continue as such"
[08:32] <nomed> anyway bluefoxicy having let's say modules as morphix may cause problems ...
[08:32] <nomed> you'll notice the boot will slow down
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> yes
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> it has to iterate through modules and unionfs mount them
[08:33] <bluefoxicy> I am aware.
[08:33] <bluefoxicy> also stacking too many causes slowdowns at runtime
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> I was hoping for something where building a livecd involves just slapping together a few basic modules (base, X11, GTK, Qt, KDE, GNOME, XFCE, applications) and mix and matching them (base, X11, GTK, GNOME; base, X11, Qt, KDE; base, X11, GTK, XFCE)
[08:35] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: your ideas resemble mine a bit.  Probably not an exact match, but we're thinking about going there in the future.
[08:36] <bluefoxicy> it'd be possible to dependency-weaken the image at build time, especially if there's no Phase 0 Bootstrap Module; all modules will be loaded so slap them all into one big one at creation time
[08:36] <nomed> Mithrandir: this is what i did some months ago
[08:37] <nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/mediawiki/index.php/About
[08:37] <nomed> i would port that stuff to casper too ... 
[08:37] <bluefoxicy> aside from that, building dependency trees (X11 needs base, GTK needs X11, GNOME needs GTK, XFCE needs GTK, you have an XFCE/GNOME LiveCD) and reducing as possible (GTK+X11+base, GNOME, XFCE) would help too
[08:38] <bluefoxicy> all of which is automatable :)
[08:38] <nomed> anyway .. i was here to ask if anyone can explain how gconf is used by espresso.
[08:38] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  you wanna talk later?
[08:39] <Mithrandir> nomed: it looks a lot like casper, yes.
[08:39] <nomed> i sent already a patch to Kamion , as espresso it was checking just gnome-screensaver .. and xubuntu uses xscreensaver
[08:39] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: sure
[08:39] <nomed> Mithrandir: yep .. i left it after dapper
[08:40] <nomed> now i would integrate casper .. as it's really similar
[08:40] <nomed> at that time breezy was using d-i
[08:41] <nomed> Mithrandir: anyway on old machines having modules may cause problems .. from what i tested
[08:41] <Mithrandir> nomed: why?
[08:41] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: you'd probably get ubuntu-minimal onto a business-card cd.  Not much more.
[08:42] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: wouldn't cutting OOo and the language packs go a long way?
[08:42] <Chipzz> or am I mistaken?
[08:42] <nomed> Mithrandir: i guess it's because the cd drive has to read files all over the cd
[08:44] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: a business card cd is about 50MB.  The live fs is currently at ~500MB.  You need to shave off a bit more than just OOo and langpacks.
[08:45] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: oh, I thought business-card was more like 200MB or 300MB
[08:45] <Chipzz> BartPE has a business-card image ;)
[08:46] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: I don't know if you can get businesscard DVD-Rs. That'd help a fair bit.
[08:49] <Mithrandir> Riddell: kubuntu dailies up, I'll do live too in a bit.
[08:50] <Chipzz> ah k, googling for business card cd turns up only rectangular cd's... I guess I was thinking about sth else :)
[08:51] <Chipzz> nm :)
[08:58] <nomed> Kamion: ping
[08:58] <nomed> shouldn't  "sudo debconf-show espresso | grep grub-installer/bootdev " shows a device ?
[08:59] <nomed> i can't install grub with espresso
[09:00] <nomed> db_get grub-installer/bootdev --> bootdev=$RET --> $bootdev is an empty var
[09:00] <nomed> that's in grub-installer
[09:15] <Mithrandir> Riddell: kdm's postinst segfaults on hppa.
[09:16] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  Done :)
[09:16] <Mithrandir> Riddell: also, live done.
[09:19] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  busy?
[09:19] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: moderately.
[09:19] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  later then.  :)
[09:19] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: see you around
[09:20] <carlos> Riddell: hi, Is ok for you that I file bugs for all problems I find with KDE translations?
[09:20] <carlos> Riddell: that way we will be sure we don't forget anyone of them
[09:20] <jmg> hi Riddell
[09:20] <jmg> ubuntu xen 3.0.2 packages -> deb http://debian.thoughtcrime.co.nz/ubuntu/ dapper main xen
[09:21] <neuralis> jmg: awesome!
[09:21] <jmg> neuralis: please stand by
[09:22] <jmg> neuralis: confirmed working :)
[09:22] <jmg> neuralis: vote for me: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kernel-package/+bug/40088
[09:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40088 in kernel-package "[PATCH]  Support i386 Xen subarch" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[09:26] <neuralis> jmg: arch.d.o seems to be refusing http connections, so i can't take a look at how invasive the changes are, but it might be too late to apply them to the dapper kernel package(s)
[09:26] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: rolling edubuntu cds now.
[09:26] <neuralis> jmg: have you been in touch with the kernel team about this?
[09:28] <neuralis> jmg: ah, i just noticed the patch on librarian. that doesn't look too bad.
[09:28] <jmg> neuralis: i tried to, fabianne had a bit of a fit
[09:29] <jmg> neuralis: diff between his and manoj's is 80,000 lines
[09:29] <jmg> neuralis: and noone had time to do the backport so... lucky me
[09:29] <neuralis> jmg: the backport looks relatively uninvasive.
[09:30] <jmg> neuralis: thanks
[09:30] <neuralis> jmg: sure. i'll advocate for inclusion, i think this is very important to have.
[09:30] <jmg> neuralis: it may be too late to sneak into dapper
[09:31] <jmg> neuralis: but its a strong starting point for dapper+1
[09:31] <jmg> neuralis: should i post to the ml about it?
[09:31] <neuralis> jmg: hang tight, i'll talk to fabio and we'll see what we can do.
[09:31] <mdz> good morning
[09:32] <mvo> good morning
[09:32] <simira> what is all this good morning stuff about?
[09:33] <Mithrandir> hiya mdz
[09:33] <pitti> mdz: Good morning, how's London?
[09:33] <mdz> pitti: sunny!
[09:33] <mdz> I'm syncing down the current daily now; how does it look so far?
[09:33] <neuralis> BenC: ping
[09:33] <mdz> neuralis: it's the middle of the night in BenC-land
[09:34] <pitti> mdz: I can't believe that! :-P
[09:34] <mdz> pitti: me either
[09:34] <pitti> mdz: so you are lucky today, a good sign
[09:34] <mdz> pitti: and yesterday
[09:34] <pitti> stunning
[09:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: I haven't tried it yet, been busy spinning livefs-es and dailies for all of our derivatives (sans -server, since that needed some tweaks)
[09:34] <seb128> what?
[09:35] <jmg> neuralis: i will put up alpha kernel images tomorrow
[09:35] <jmg> neuralis: when im at work and can use the a64
[09:35] <jmg> neuralis: but im running on it now with xen-3.0-testing kernel from a few days before release
[09:36] <fabbione> neuralis: i am here... if you use my nick i get highlights :)
[09:36] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: edubuntu -live up.
[09:36] <jmg> hi fabbione
[09:36] <fabbione> hi
[09:37] <jmg> did you have a chance to take a look at the (much better) bug i posted?
[09:37] <jmg> diff is only 210 lines or so
[09:37] <janimo> Mithrandir: with the xubuntu install wait a bit more till xubuntu-default-settings 0.6 gets built.thanks
[09:37] <neuralis> fabbione: bug #40088 -- patch seems relatively trivial, i'd strongly support it going in
[09:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40088 in kernel-package "[PATCH]  Support i386 Xen subarch" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40088
[09:37] <janimo> unless you waited for me pinging anyway 
[09:37] <fabbione> neuralis: looking...
[09:38] <fabbione> jmg: no, we are releasing beta.. i have no time for wishlists
[09:38] <jmg> fabbione: ok
[09:38] <jmg> fabbione: i'll maintain it myself then
[09:38] <Mithrandir> janimo: so the current xubuntu install cd is not a candidate?
[09:38] <fabbione> jmg: you miss the point. i just said that i have no time to look at it right now.
[09:38] <janimo> Mithrandir: well I had no feedback on it yet
[09:39] <fabbione> jmg: please stop this thing of taking stuff personally each time. We are releasing beta tomororw and there are other things that needs higher priority
[09:39] <janimo> but it can be a candidate of course, I have just been uploading polish for the livecd and it affects install as well
[09:39] <janimo> icon theme and such
[09:39] <neuralis> fabbione: that's the bug i mentioned, so if you're busy with the beta release, don't look at it now.
[09:39] <neuralis> fabbione: this can wait until after beta, although i do think having it in dapper is worthwhile.
[09:39] <Mithrandir> janimo: I'm keeping a sheet of notes here so I know which need to be rebuilt, etc.
[09:39] <jmg> fabbione: ok, its not much use until the patch goes into kernel-package, i could cook up a test deb of kernel-package...
[09:39] <Mithrandir> janimo: so if you have stuff you want on it, it's not a candidate.
[09:40] <Mithrandir> hi Daniel
[09:40] <jmg> fabbione: i'll do that, thanks
[09:40] <janimo> Mithrandir: ok so it needs a rebuild after said package gets in the archive
[09:40] <dholbach> hey Tollef!
[09:40] <dholbach> good morning everybody!
[09:40] <fabbione> neuralis: i do not disagree. i will look at it once we are done with beta.
[09:40] <janimo> dholbach: hey
[09:40] <nomed> janimo: here (xubuntu livecd) firefox fonts are really too small
[09:40] <dholbach> hey janimo :-)
[09:41] <neuralis> fabbione: great, thanks.
[09:41] <janimo> nomed, I am dling the live myself
[09:41] <mvo> hm, when I ran the live-cd it suggests english in espresso even when booting a german environment. but I guess this is known
[09:41] <janimo> nomed what is the default font?
[09:41] <dholbach> hey mvo!
[09:41] <jmg> okay, in the meantime im going to work on a xen livecd derived from the beta lives
[09:41] <mvo> hello dholbach
[09:41] <janimo> nomed, I uploaded a setting to make tango default, I might as well change the default font
[09:41] <janimo> nomed, also only firefox or UI too?
[09:42] <Mithrandir> janimo: sure.
[09:42] <janimo> nomed, testing today's livecd?
[09:42] <nomed> ui too .. but firefox it's what seems to have more problems
[09:42] <nomed> janimo: yes even espresso
[09:42] <janimo> nomed, did it have icons on desktop, and espresso launchable?
[09:42] <nomed> i sent already patches .. i would get a fb
[09:42] <nomed> janimo: i dwlded it yesterday
[09:43] <janimo> nomed, so not today's livecd
[09:43] <Mithrandir> janimo: do you want live images too when x-d-s 0.6 gets in?
[09:43] <nomed> janimo: no .. i can get it again
[09:43] <nomed> but i guess espresso will be still the same
[09:43] <mdz> where are the beta release notes being assembled?
[09:43] <janimo> Mithrandir: if it';s not much work sure, otherwise later since I plan do do some livecd debugging today
[09:43] <janimo> and I am dling current one
[09:43] <Mithrandir> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperBeta
[09:44] <mdz> thanks
[09:44] <janimo> Mithrandir: so probably a new live will be needed tonight or tomorrow so do not bother with one now, unless really easy to do :)
[09:44] <Mithrandir> janimo: the live images are generally very rsyncable so you probably want to use rsync rather than wget once you've downloaded it once.
[09:45] <janimo> Mithrandir: ah good idea thanks. are they more resyncanble than install?
[09:45] <Mithrandir> janimo: I won't just build one to build one.  If you have something you wan tested, I can do it, but it's a waste of resources to build one just for the heck of it.
[09:45] <Mithrandir> janimo: on the same level, give or take.
[09:45] <mdz> mvo: are you editing DapperBeta still?
[09:45] <janimo> Mithrandir: ok I'll ping you when a new build is needed then, thanks
[09:45] <mvo> mdz: just finished
[09:45] <mvo> mdz: it's yours now
[09:46] <janimo> nomed, I'll start testing the livecd myself in about 2 hours.
[09:47] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: and -install done and published.
[09:48] <janimo> nomed, what font do we have by default that looks ugly?
[09:48] <janimo> dholbach: what is the default UI font in ubuntu?
[09:48] <janimo> I did not closely follow the dejav vs bistream discussion
[09:48] <nomed> janimo: i really don't know checking ..
[09:49] <janimo> nomed in the ui settings dialog
[09:49] <dholbach> janimo: i'm not quite sure. you should ask doko or Diziet
[09:49] <nomed> anyway the problem is not that they are ugly (generally a point of view :) ) they're too small 
[09:50] <janimo> nomed, ok will figure it out using the livecd and upload a fix tonight
[09:50] <janimo> Diziet: hi, which font is now used as default for gnome ui/firefox ?
[09:51] <janimo> in xfce default install firefox has very small fonts
[09:51] <janimo> nomed, it may be some xinitrc settings we are missing
[09:51] <mdz> espresso and usplash fixes confirmed in the current build
[09:51] <dholbach> mdz, Mithrandir: if you don't mind, I'll do the gnopernicus, gok and ubuntu-meta uploads in a bit.
[09:51] <janimo> there was some dpi:100 vs dpi:75 issue a while back, it may be the same
[09:51] <nomed> janimo: it looks like a dpi issue
[09:52] <fabbione> crap
[09:52] <mdz> dholbach: the sooner the better
[09:52] <dholbach> mdz: working on it
[09:52] <nomed> firefox has 96dpi .. switching to system default seems better
[09:52] <mdz> dholbach: by the way, I now get a dialog when I press two keys at once. how do I stop that?
[09:53] <mdz> I ran gok once
[09:53] <janimo> nomed, so firefox has 96 by default and our x settings say 75?
[09:53] <dholbach> mdz: do you have a11y enabled in gnome-at-properties?
[09:53] <nomed> janimo: i don't knwo the xfce default .. it should be in xinitrc
[09:53] <nomed> checking
[09:53] <mdz> dholbach: definitely not
[09:54] <mdz> oh, it says changes will not take effect until the next login though
[09:54] <janimo> nomed, looks like 96 too
[09:54] <mdz> so I may have turned it off during this session
[09:54] <nomed> janimo: yep
[09:54] <nomed> so i really don't know
[09:54] <dholbach> mdz: hope that fixes it for you
[09:55] <mdz> i386 test install in vmware looks good
[09:55] <mdz> (espresso)
[09:55] <janimo> nomed so regarding espresso is the grub thing the only bug?
[09:55] <seb128> is there any round of upload possible or planned?
[09:56] <dholbach> seb128: i'll do gnopernicus, gok and ubuntu-meta in soon
[09:56] <mdz> infinity: can you tell me a bit about the initramfs-tools change?
[09:56] <Mithrandir> dholbach: uh, why?
[09:56] <mdz> seb128: yes, there will be at least one more build
[09:56] <mdz> Mithrandir: a11y
[09:57] <seb128> mdz: I was considering doing an upload of gnome-panel without the laptop profile hack
[09:57] <Mithrandir> mdz: did they ftbfs last night?  infinity uploaded them 12-ish hours ago.
[09:57] <mdz> Mithrandir: uploaded what?
[09:57] <dholbach> Mithrandir: no, menu entry changes and a seed change
[09:57] <seb128> mdz: the profile was to have battstat on laptop, but now that's only duplication with g-p-m
[09:57] <mdz> seb128: laptop profile hack?
[09:57] <seb128> yeah, we have a desktop and a laptop profile
[09:57] <seb128> the laptop having battstat
[09:57] <mdz> seb128: oh, I thought we had already dropped battstat in favour of g-p-m
[09:57] <mdz> seb128: so yes, please get that in
[09:57] <Mithrandir> mdz: gok and gnopernicus due to a soname change in brltty.
[09:58] <nomed> janimo: and an issue with xscreensaver
[09:58] <seb128> mdz: k, will do now
[09:58] <mdz> Mithrandir: this is dropping them from the menu, and removing dasher
[09:58] <dholbach> Mithrandir: no, that was gnopernicus only.
[09:58] <mdz> Mithrandir: so applications->accessibility disappears by default
[09:58] <Mithrandir> mdz: ah, ok.
[09:59] <mvo> i386/espresso looks good here too (modulo the problem that you need to press enter when splash-down is compelte to actually reboot)
[09:59] <mdz> mvo: why is that a problem?
[09:59] <janimo> nomed, does the xscreensaver issue make espresso not work?
[10:00] <mdz> mvo: the live CD has always worked that way...or are you not seeing the prompt?
[10:00] <mvo> mdz: I don't see the prompt
[10:00] <mdz> mvo: make sure you have the latest build; I fixed that last night
[10:00] <mvo> mdz: I did a rsync this morning, let me check again
[10:01] <nomed> janimo: not that but espresso checks if gnome-scrinsaver is running in that case it disables it
[10:01] <nomed> there is a patch already in launchpad for that
[10:01] <janimo> janimo, but if it does not run it's fine no?
[10:01] <nomed> sent one h ago
[10:01] <janimo> I mean it does not cause a breakage
[10:01] <mdz> mvo: I just confirmed the fix with eac06b7357e678b79d43b59e4727eb30  cd/ubuntu/dapper-live-i386.iso
[10:01] <nomed> janimo: and if xscrinsaver is runing ? :)
[10:02] <nomed> janimo: if it checks that there is a reason for sure :)
[10:02] <janimo> well, does it cause breakge or does it just kick in
[10:02] <mdz> janimo: it just pokes it so that the screensaver doesn't activate
[10:02] <janimo> well it can be annoying but not crash your install halway I guess?
[10:02] <mdz> shouldn't be a functional problem
[10:02] <janimo> halfway
[10:02] <nomed> janimo: it didn't casuse breakage because xscrinsaver didn't start here
[10:02] <janimo> nomed, one bug fixes the other :)
[10:03] <Mithrandir> mdz: shouldn't we get espresso removed from the system tools menu too then?
[10:03] <nomed> this is a patch i sent
[10:03] <nomed> http://librarian.launchpad.net/2174817/00_xscreensaver
[10:04] <mvo> mdz: I have the same image, let me re-test it
[10:05] <janimo> nomed, gconf is ok on the livecd
[10:05] <janimo> we have it in install to bc of gdm
[10:05] <nomed> janimo: yep but i would figure out how it is used there
[10:06] <nomed> as it returns False
[10:06] <Mithrandir> mdz: I can reproduce the usplash bug with vmware here.
[10:06] <janimo> nomed, at first glance looks ok
[10:06] <janimo> the xscreensaver thing I mean
[10:06] <mvo> Mithrandir: me too (just tried again), testing on real hardware next
[10:07] <dholbach> narf, gok ftbfs, but there's a patch in cvs
[10:07] <dholbach> *trying*
[10:07] <nomed> janimo: and it looks like gconf is fine as it is in xubuntu livecd
[10:08] <janimo> nomed, right, but as I said we already have it in desktop too bc of gdm
[10:08] <janimo> via gnome-keyring
[10:08] <fabbione> mdz, Mithrandir: i have a sparc specific change for partman-lvm to install on lvm over raid. It would be nice to have for Beta and it doesn't affect other arches. Can i upload in the hope it can make it? otherwise it's just fine
[10:08] <Mithrandir> fabbione: url to debdiff?
[10:09] <nomed> janimo: yep .. but espresso sets some stuff .. i don't know for what and if it uses those confs later
[10:09] <Mithrandir> mvo: now it worked for me and fell back to text mode.
[10:09] <nomed> but it seems it doesn't
[10:09] <nomed> not sure anyway
[10:09] <janimo> nomed, for beta it would be enough if it just installed the system :)
[10:09] <nomed> janimo: ehehe
[10:09] <janimo> now booting it in qemu
[10:10] <nomed> the only issue i found is the grub-install step
[10:10] <janimo> so I don't have to quit
[10:10] <fabbione> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/debdiff
[10:10] <janimo> right, do you have a bug filed on that too?
[10:10] <Kamion> Mithrandir: why remove espresso from system tools?
[10:10] <Kamion> yes, nomed has bugs filed
[10:10] <janimo> cool
[10:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's the only item in that menu on the live cd.  Looks a bit lonely.
[10:12] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it doesn't affect other arches, so if it propagates in time is good.. otherwise welk.. though luck
[10:12] <Mithrandir> fabbione: looks ok to me.
[10:13] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ok thanks
[10:13] <nomed> Kamion: one question about #40100 in espresso ..
[10:13] <janimo> nomed, did you have the install icon partly hidden beneath the panel?
[10:14] <janimo> if not I guess more xfdesktop settings are needed 
[10:14] <nomed> apt-install is not in $PATH just on xubuntu livecd ?
[10:14] <nomed> janimo: i hadn't the install icon  :)
[10:14] <Kamion> nomed: well that patch is certainly wrong ...
[10:14] <Kamion> nomed: can you please file one bug per issue in future?
[10:15] <nomed> Kamion: k
[10:15] <janimo> nomed, I mean after turning desktop icons on
[10:15] <Kamion> /usr/lib/espresso/compat should be in $PATH globally for espresso
[10:16] <nomed> Kamion: i suposed it was wrong .. i was just debugin the grub-install issue
[10:16] <Kamion> and I don't see anything that would remove it
[10:16] <Kamion> nomed: oh, were you running that script by hand?
[10:16] <nomed> at the end yes
[10:16] <nomed> as espresso fails installing grub
[10:16] <nomed> and i couldn't figure out the reason
[10:16] <Kamion> nomed: then you need to set up PATH yourself; I won't accept that part of the patch
[10:17] <nomed> Kamion: k
[10:17] <nomed> janimo: no it was not hidden
[10:17] <pitti_live> Kamion: just a side question, is it possible at all to eliminate this silly 'Retrieving files...' step in the installer?
[10:18] <mvo> Mithrandir: the reboot-prompt works nicely for me in real hardware 
[10:18] <Mithrandir> mvo: it has worked 2/3 times for me in vmware too
[10:18] <Kamion> pitti_live: not as far as I know
[10:18] <mdz> Mithrandir,mvo: gar
[10:18] <Kamion> pitti_live: that's debootstrap or apt or something, not really the core installer doing that
[10:18] <mdz> there could be a race there
[10:18] <pitti_live> Kamion: ok, thanks
[10:18] <mvo> Mithrandir: no luck for me here, tried it 4 times in vmware
[10:18] <mdz> works fine for me in vmware
[10:19] <Kamion> http://librarian.launchpad.net/2174823/00_grubinstaller_if_n_removabledevice.diff is nearly unreadable due to whitespace changes :(
[10:19] <pitti_live> Kamion: so that archive-copier/nocopy=true (or sth. similar) trick won't work any more?
[10:19] <Kamion> pitti_live: archive-copier is a completely different step, and is not run by default any more
[10:20] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: current ppc/install is good
[10:21] <nomed> Kamion: :/ i'm sorry .. anyway it just adds an if [ -n "$removabledevice" ] ; then before calling udevinfo
[10:22] <mdz> Mithrandir,mvo: my guess would be that it's interrupting a syscall other than select(2) and so not breaking the event loop
[10:22] <Kamion> nomed: yeah, I have a better patch here
[10:23] <mdz> Mithrandir,mvo: unfortunately I don't think it's safe to call cleanup() from a signal handler
[10:23] <Kamion> well, neater :) just if [ -z "$removabledevice ] ; then return; fi early on in is_removable
[10:23] <Kamion> the general approach of your patch was ok, it was just a bit noisy
[10:23] <janimo> nomed, what's the issue with apt-install for xubuntu?
[10:23] <mvo> *meh* bad news, my second test on real-hw gave me no prompt :/ (the first did)
[10:24] <mdz> we do have the option of dropping in the full splash-down changes I've prepared...they work for me...
[10:24] <Kamion> janimo: there is none
[10:24] <dholbach> mdz: the a11y menu is gone :)
[10:24] <nomed> janimo: going to test it again .. it may be not an issue
[10:24] <mdz> but falling back to text seemed much safer for beta
[10:24] <nomed> yep
[10:24] <pitti_live> seb128: hm, 'Dasher' is in both Accessibility and Accessories menus
[10:24] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[10:25] <Kamion> janimo: he was running some code by hand outside the context of the stuff that sets up $PATH properly
[10:25] <mdz> pitti_live: dasher is no longer in desktop
[10:25] <seb128> pitti_live: dholbach is working on it
[10:25] <pitti_live> cool
[10:25] <janimo> ah ok
[10:25] <Kamion> nomed: I believe the removabledevice thing is cosmetic and just introduces some noise into the log; is this true or false?
[10:25] <mvo> mdz: where are your changes? I could give them a test-run 
[10:25] <nomed> Kamion: yes 
[10:25] <nomed> not critical for sure
[10:25] <Keybuk> Kamion, Mithrandir, mdz: udev appears to be missing a Conflicts on ifrename; ok to upload a fix?
[10:26] <Kamion> nomed: ok, good, I don't need to worry about it for beta then; thanks
[10:26] <mdz> Keybuk: sure
[10:26] <Keybuk> also acpi-support still calls ifrename, ok to fix that too?
[10:26] <Mithrandir> mdz: I think we should just go with what we have and hope that works in the majority of cases.  I'll try on real hardware too and see if I can reproduce it there.
[10:26] <seb128> grumpf, I still need to run dhclient by hand on my laptop with dapper :/
[10:26] <seb128> (it was working fine with hoary)
[10:26] <Mithrandir> dholbach: what's the eta of new gnopernicus and gok?
[10:27] <dholbach> Mithrandir: all uploaded
[10:27] <mdz> mvo: I'll get them uploaded
[10:27] <mdz> to people.u.c
[10:27] <Mithrandir> dholbach: thanks.
[10:27] <dholbach> seb128: i have the same problem, it worked with network manager until ~0.6
[10:27] <Mithrandir> dholbach: seeds updated too?
[10:27] <seb128> n-m works fine
[10:27] <dholbach> Mithrandir: yep, ubuntu-meta uploaded too
[10:27] <seb128> that's just the default install
[10:28] <seb128> I've no network on boot
[10:28] <Keybuk> Kamion, Mithrandir, mdz: acpi-support still calls ifrename, ok to fix that too?
[10:28] <seb128> so no language to the language selector, etc
[10:28] <nomed> Kamion: what really looks bad is that grub-installer couldn't find the bootdev, i guess that was why it failed
[10:28] <seb128> so an english desktop on my french install :/
[10:29] <Kamion> nomed: file the bug that actually bit you then; run 'ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 sudo espresso' (make sure to use a throwaway password, as it will appear in the log) and attach /var/log/installer/espresso to the bug
[10:29] <Kamion> nomed: p.s. re #40095, filing a bug is sufficient to contact m
[10:29] <Kamion> e
[10:29] <mdz> hell, I just trashed one of my patches
[10:30] <mdz> Keybuk: after beta, please
[10:30] <Keybuk> ok
[10:32] <Kamion> mdz: can/should I fix this xubuntu screensaver bug (#40095) pre-beta?
[10:32] <Mithrandir> Ubugtu: bug 40095
[10:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40095 in espresso "from poke_gnome_screensaver to turn_off_screensaver" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40095
[10:33] <mdz> Kamion: if it's simple and safe; I don't consider it a blocker though
[10:33] <Kamion> ok
[10:34] <sivang> morning all
[10:35] <pitti_live> hi sivang
[10:36] <seb128> when are due new CD images now? (to know if I should give a try to current CD or wait for the update)
[10:37] <Mithrandir> seb128: we need to wait for new gok, gnopernicus to get into the archive.  Feel free to test the rest of the desktop though.
[10:38] <seb128> ok, let's try current iso for now 
[10:39] <Kamion> pitti_live: the locales bug; we need your help on that
[10:40] <Kamion> bug 34593
[10:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34593 in langpack-locales "removing the package regenerates the locales for ALL other languages" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34593
[10:40] <pitti_live> Kamion: ah, I see
[10:40] <pitti_live> Kamion: thanks, will think about that
[10:40] <pitti_live> anyway, booting into espresso-installed system, brb
[10:41] <janimo> nomed, todays' livecd in qemu has nice firefox fonts
[10:41] <janimo> and only icons on desktop has changed since yesterday 
[10:44] <mdz> mvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/splash-down/
[10:46] <mvo> mdz: is installing the debs there enough? or is there more that needs to be done?
[10:47] <mdz> mvo: boot live CD, install debs, sudo cp /usr/share/casper/shutdown /etc/init.d/casper-shutdown
[10:50] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, seb128, I've filed a goffice bug with a patch for the gnome/gtk build, do I suscribe you to this bug?
[10:50] <pitti> Mithrandir: amd64/live Tests/Short + espresso install good for me
[10:51] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: i suppose that desktop-bugs should be subscribed already, right?
[10:51] <fabbione> guys please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[10:52] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, it should appear in the suscribers list? I don't see it
[10:52] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: the patch with the common -dev lib right?
[10:52] <seb128> mdz, Mithrandir: reuploading a gnome-panel right now if that's fine with you, laptop profile is useful for wireless applet too ... I've undo the previous changed and dropped battstat from the laptop profile instead
[10:52] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: subscribe me too ;)
[10:52] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, yes
[10:52] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, done :)
[10:52] <janimo> thanks
[10:52] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, I'll suscribe to ubuntu-desktop
[10:52] <mdz> seb128: ok
[10:52] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: desktop-bugs
[10:52] <mdz> seb128: go ahead
[10:52] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: i'll default subscribe desktop-bugs to it now
[10:52] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: thanks
[10:53] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: am testing xubu live in qemu, now. icons on desktop is default and espresso launches
[10:54] <janimo> next live will have tango by default too
[10:54] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, great :)
[10:54] <Gloubiboulga> I'll test the next one
[10:54] <janimo> ok
[10:55] <mvo> mdz: it works well here, I get a prompt from usplash to remove the disc and press enter
[10:55] <mdz> mvo: yes, works for me too
[10:55] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: I'll rsync that too, but first I want to see what with the xfprint error, so we don;t do too many live builds
[10:55] <mdz> mvo: but it touches a lot for the day before beta
[10:56] <seb128> mdz: done
[10:56] <seb128> uploaded
[10:57] <mvo> mdz: yes :/
[10:57] <mdz> mvo: I'd appreciate some review of the patches
[10:59] <mdz> Kamion: odd, the espresso icon is still "...Permanently"; I thought that change made it in time for the build
[11:00] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, I can start xfprint4 from command line, but not from the menu on my installed xubuntu...
[11:00] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: just saw that myself
[11:00] <janimo> even on a 'normal' system
[11:00] <janimo> looking into it
[11:01] <pitti> oops, this kernel bug triggered very well...
[11:01] <Kamion> mdz: no, you asked me to do the build before that
[11:01] <Kamion> unless there was another one this morning
[11:01] <mdz> Kamion: no worries, we'll do another one
[11:02] <Mithrandir> ubuntu:         2006-04-18 2225
[11:02] <Mithrandir> (livefs build)
[11:02] <Mithrandir> so that was the one triggered by Colin last night
[11:02] <mdz> Keybuk is testing a possible splash-down solution
[11:03] <mdz> once we've made the final fix for that, we'll roll a new build
[11:03] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: after editing it it works, even if I revert the changes.
[11:03] <janimo> see if it works if you touch that file
[11:03] <Keybuk> first you debconf me
[11:03] <Keybuk> now you conffile-prompt me
[11:04] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, I did, it still fails to start
[11:05] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: ok, I am reinstalling xfprint and try reproducing it
[11:06] <Kamion> fabbione: bug 40119 is yours I guess
[11:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40119 in base-installer "SPARC boot failed: Illegal Instruction" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40119
[11:07] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks
[11:07] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: in settings->print settings, None is chosen instead of CUPS by default
[11:07] <janimo> changing that lets the dialog run
[11:08] <janimo> but why cmd line behave different I don't know yet
[11:09] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: another candidate for a new xubu-settings-default upload
[11:09] <Kamion> good grief, whoever's assigning espresso bugs to ubuntu desktop team, hands off
[11:09] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: do you also experience font size problems as nomed?
[11:09] <fabbione> WTH
[11:10] <janimo> would be better to upload fixes at once
[11:10] <fabbione> oh that's great
[11:10] <fabbione> we can't edit bugs anymore?
[11:10] <Kamion> certainly can, maybe you got logged out by accident
[11:10] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, I haven't seen font issues, but I need to test it again for this
[11:10] <fabbione> Kamion: it gives me 404 on editing...
[11:10] <Kamion> WFM
[11:10] <fabbione> ahhh
[11:10] <fabbione> you reassigned it
[11:11] <fabbione> that's a frigging race condition
[11:11] <Kamion> heh
[11:13] <janimo> doko: hi, what is the default font used by gnome UI now?
[11:13] <janimo> I'd like to set the same for xfce
[11:15] <doko> janimo: never changed in the last time, always DejaVu
[11:16] <janimo> doko, thanks
[11:17] <pitti> Kamion: hm, ppc/live espresso hangs at 'Completely removed gparted'; that worked fine yesterday; known issue to you, or shall I investigate?
[11:17] <pitti> Kamion: oh, nevermind, it's still purging langpacks, it's just not displaying it
[11:17] <pitti> sorry for the noise
[11:20] <Keybuk> mdz: yup, that seems to work
[11:21] <mdz> Keybuk: send me a copy so I can see it here?
[11:21] <Keybuk> I will when my laptop boots again :)
[11:21] <fabbione> pitti: no it's just very very slow
[11:22] <Keybuk> eww...
[11:23] <pitti> fabbione: yep, I just tail'ed the log and saw it; I really need to fix this soon
[11:27] <mdz> Mithrandir: review http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/splash-down/casper.diff for me?
[11:28] <Mithrandir> mdz: looks good to me.  can you hold the upload a second?
[11:28] <mdz> Mithrandir: sure; feel free to upload it yourself if you prefer
[11:28] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'll do that.
[11:28] <Mithrandir> mdz: do you have that in a branch or should I just grab it as is?
[11:29] <mdz> Mithrandir: as is
[11:33] <Keybuk> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/splash-down/
[11:34] <Keybuk> (when the other _i386.deb's have uploaded, obviously :p)
[11:35] <mdz> Keybuk: you prefer to start it again from sendsigs rather than add a second init script to usplash?
[11:35] <Keybuk> yeah, was easiest patch
[11:35] <Keybuk> second init script involves symlink changes, etc.
[11:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: new casper uploaded.
[11:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
[11:40] <mdz> Keybuk: for final, I mean
[11:40] <pitti> Mithrandir: ppc/live Testing/Short + Espresso is thumbs up for me, too
[11:41] <Keybuk> I still suspect I'd start it from sendsigs, simple because sendsigs is responsible for accidentally killing it
[11:41] <Keybuk> but I'm not unhappy with starting it from another init script again either, other than maybe that'll cause some oddness with progress bar jumps
[11:41] <mdz> it doesn't strictly know if it was running, though
[11:43] <Keybuk> nor would any other init script?
[11:44] <fabbione> pitti: are you updating the wiki?
[11:44] <mdz> you've duplicated the logic that splash_down uses to determine whether it should start
[11:44] <Kamion> I'm going to attempt to pull new translations into espresso
[11:44] <Kamion> when Rosetta gets back to me
[11:44] <Kamion> should make it for the next archive cycle
[11:44] <mdz> heh, in the course of discussing it I managed to miss the interesting bit of the shutdown sequence
[11:45] <Keybuk> mdz: actually, I got that from the initramfs script
[11:45] <Keybuk> mdz: doofus
[11:47] <infinity> Erm, why would you restart it from sendsigs, when you can just have sendsigs not kill it in the first place?  (with a patch to killall5)
[11:47] <infinity> (For final, that is)
[11:47] <pitti> fabbione: no, since I was told that these are still not the final images; shall I?
[11:48] <fabbione> well that's what i am doing
[11:48] <mdz> Keybuk: this looks just fine
[11:48] <mdz> Keybuk: the flicker isn't too bad in vmware; presumably significantly better on a real machine
[11:48] <pitti> fabbione: ok, I'll just add my results with the CD version then
[11:48] <mdz> infinity: I think I like this better actually
[11:49] <pitti> fabbione: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current ? That still says 'Flight-6'
[11:50] <fabbione> pitti: whatever.. we discussed this yesterday with dholbach 
[11:50] <fabbione> to start using it for pre-beta releases
[11:50] <mdz> infinity: having done it the other way already
[11:50] <mdz> Keybuk: let's do it
[11:50] <dholbach> fabbione: we can change the 'flight-6' to daily 19-apr-06 too
[11:51] <pitti> dholbach: ok, so if that's the page to use, I'll add my results
[11:51] <dholbach> super
[11:51] <infinity> mdz: This way will start the splash if it's already timed out and died, and other such oddities.  I'm fine with it for the beta, I'm just questioning it for release.
[11:52] <mdz> infinity: well, http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/splash-down/usplash.diff is appropriate post-beta in any case, if you'd like to review and merge it
[11:53] <infinity> mdz: *nod*
[11:53] <mdz> the casper diff in there is already uploaded
[11:54] <mdz> I'm uncertain about the killall5 patch though
[11:54] <janimo> Mithrandir: I'll ping you about xubuntu install CD as well not only live, as I wait for last upload to build.thanks
[11:54] <infinity> Well, killall5 is specifically meant to be called from nowhere but that one init script, so I don't see any harm in customising it.
[11:55] <infinity> And it already walks the process table and gets process basenames, so it's not invasive.
[11:55] <mdz> the customisation is backward-compatible anyway
[11:55] <Mithrandir> mdz: what's the state of splash-down fixing now?  Any uploads pending?
[11:56] <mdz> Mithrandir: Keybuk should have sysvinit and usplash uploads pending
[11:56] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: will those hit the archive before 1000Z?
[11:56] <mdz> Mithrandir: once those and Kamion's translation update, we're ready for a candidate
[11:57] <mdz> s/,/ have built,/
[11:57] <Mithrandir> the translation update is uploaded already?
[11:57] <Kamion> no
[11:57] <Kamion> going as fast as I can
[11:57] <Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
[11:58] <Mithrandir> ogra: do you need new images too for those changes?
[11:58] <zakame> hi all
[11:58] <ogra> Mithrandir, usplash ? yes please
[11:58] <mdz> seb128: are you finished with the panel changes?
[11:58] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you too?
[11:59] <mdz> seb128: your upload says it drops the laptop profile, but I thought you changed your mind and decided to modify it instead
[11:59] <seb128> mdz: yep
[11:59] <seb128> I did a second upload
[11:59] <mdz> hmm, I don't see it on -changes
[11:59] <seb128>  gnome-panel (2.14.1-0ubuntu4) dapper; urgency=low
[11:59] <seb128>  .
[11:59] <seb128>    * debian/gnome-panel-data.postinst,
[11:59] <seb128>      debian/panel-default-setup-laptop.entries, debian/rules:
[11:59] <seb128>      - drop the laptop profile, it was to use battstat which is not required now
[11:59] <seb128>        (Ubuntu: #32348)
[11:59] <seb128> my -changes box has it
[11:59] <Riddell> Mithrandir: what's the change?
[11:59] <mdz> seb128: that's the one I see, it says it drops the profile
[11:59] <seb128> ups
[11:59] <seb128>  gnome-panel (2.14.1-0ubuntu5) dapper; urgency=low
[11:59] <seb128>  .
[11:59] <seb128>    * debian/gnome-panel-data.postinst,
[11:59] <seb128>      debian/panel-default-setup-laptop.entries, debian/rules:
[11:59] <seb128>      - laptop profile is useful for wireless applet, modify the profile
[12:00] <seb128>        to not use battstat since it's not required
[12:00] <Mithrandir> Riddell: better splashdown which leaves users less confused.
[12:00] <mdz> ah, there it is
[12:00] <seb128> from 1 hour ago
[12:00] <mdz> Riddell: unfucked live CD shutdown
[12:00] <seb128> I uploaded just before 9utc
[12:00] <Riddell> sounds desireable, yes please Mithrandir 
[12:01] <mdz> Keybuk's uploads are accepted
[12:01] <Kamion> mine is in progress, should make it before :02
[12:01] <Kamion> (which is the cut-off)
[12:02] <zakame> hmm is there something wrong with digikam's source package?  I couldn't seem to dpkg-source -x a fresh download from the archive
[12:02] <Kamion> hmm, no, didn't make it, damnit
[12:02] <Kamion> sorry
[12:03] <pitti> dholbach: hmm, but after updating the CD number we should probably drop the older test results, right?
[12:03] <dholbach> pitti: yeah, that makes only sense.
[12:03] <pitti> dholbach: right now it's confusing
[12:03] <pitti> dholbach: ok, will remove it if you agree
[12:03] <dholbach> sure!
[12:04] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: looks like they went in at 0955Z
[12:05] <mdz> Kamion: can we cheat?
[12:05] <pitti> fabbione: are your test results on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current from the recent CDs?
[12:05] <Kamion> mdz: may be able to do another publisher run after this one finishes, yes
[12:05] <fabbione> pitti: yes
[12:06] <Kamion> I'll go have breakfast and be ready when it's done
[12:07] <pitti> dholbach: updated
[12:07] <dholbach> pitti: nice.
[12:07] <ogra> dholbach, did you merge your dasher -meta upload in edubuntu ? 
[12:07] <mdz> pitti: if you're editing, please move the espresso row nearer to the top, it's one of the most important cases to test
[12:07] <pitti> mdz: not any more, but I'll do that
[12:07] <dholbach> ogra: no.
[12:08] <ogra> ok, doing now
[12:08] <dholbach> ogra: a bit of space for you :)
[12:08] <mdz> pitti: in fact, perhaps replace the 'live session' one?
[12:08] <mdz> pitti: since if an espresso install works, the live session must have worked
[12:09] <pitti> mdz: hm, but testing the live session also involves testing OO.o, ffox, and so on
[12:09] <ogra> dholbach, oh, yes, looks like i need it, the CDs are not happy about tonights changes :/
[12:09] <pitti> mdz: so, that row should stay for Testing/Short and Testing/Long results maybe?
[12:09] <pitti> mdz: I'm about to move it directly below the live session line
[12:09] <mdz> pitti: sure
[12:10] <dholbach> ogra: dasher-data was particularly big, so you might be happy again :)
[12:10] <mdz> pitti: also, the instructions refer to a nonexistent 'bugs found' section
[12:10] <ogra> dholbach, hmm, looks like i'm 8M oversized 
[12:11] <ogra> oh, and dasher data is 6M big :)
[12:11] <dholbach> :-)
[12:11] <pitti> mdz: fixed as well
[12:12] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[12:12] <pitti> np
[12:16] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, nm-applet fails with 'could not find some required resources'; known bug?
[12:17] <mdz> NM *is* a known bug ;-)
[12:17] <Keybuk> pitti: someone broke the icon theme again?
[12:17] <pitti> heh, but it worked just fine two weeks ago, and now not at all; I call that a regression :)
[12:17] <Keybuk> iz gtk bug
[12:18] <ogra> Keybuk, edubuntu uses other icon themes, i have it there as well, so it might lie deeper down
[12:18] <fabbione> mdz: i might need to do an urgent upload of silo and silo-installer
[12:19] <fabbione> i think i found a regression, but it's taking sometime to fix it.
[12:19] <fabbione> s/fix/testing the fix/
[12:19] <Kamion> mdz: hmm, I believe that bug 40131 will happen on any machine with an operating system somewhere else on the disk that os-prober doesn't recognise
[12:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40131 in espresso "grub-installer  /target exited with code 1" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40131
[12:19] <Kamion> that may be ... unfortunate for beta
[12:21] <\sh> fabbione: ping
[12:21] <fabbione> \sh: ?
[12:22] <Keybuk> ogra: it's come up before, usually whenever the icon theme changes
[12:22] <\sh> fabbione: i'm installing just now an ubuntu server....I'm in need of fai on the install cd :)
[12:22] <Keybuk> the missing resource is an icon
[12:22] <Keybuk> I don't know much more than that though; seb128 or dholbach will know
[12:22] <\sh> oh btw...Just for the records, I have a freelance job again :)
[12:23] <dholbach> Keybuk: can you make sure to run    dh_iconcache   in network-manager's debian/rules somewhere?
[12:23] <seb128> pitti: does it wrok if you move /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache away?
[12:23] <seb128> work
[12:24] <Keybuk> dholbach: probably after beta
[12:24] <Keybuk> file me a bug
[12:25] <pitti> seb128: trying...
[12:25] <pitti> seb128: as always, you are right. thanks, mate!
[12:26] <seb128> np ;)
[12:26] <pitti> seb128: so, what do I file the bug against?
[12:26] <seb128> as mentionned by dholbach, the package needs to use dh_iconcache
[12:26] <seb128> pitti: cf some lines up
[12:26] <ogra> pitti, against Keybuk, he should correct the errormessage to be less confusing ;)
[12:26] <seb128> that's because the cache masks the new installed icons if not updated
[12:27] <pitti> seb128: ah, ok
[12:27] <dholbach> Keybuk: bug 40139 - thanks. :-)
[12:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40139 in network-manager "please call dh_iconcache in debian/rules" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40139
[12:27] <doko> ohh fuck, my notebook hard disk just died ...
[12:27] <seb128> so packages installing an icon have to make sure they update the cache
[12:27] <pitti> doko: ouch
[12:27] <dholbach> doko: :-/
[12:27] <ogra> doko, with anything beta critical on it ? 
[12:28] <doko> I'll see ;-) you can hear the bearings ... and it was a mistake to turn the nb off!
[12:31] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, I just tried a resize install with espresso and got 'too small size'
[12:31] <mdz> Kamion: noticed that the slider was set to 0 by default, then went to click it and it changed to 7 without me moving the slider
[12:32] <Kamion> the slider is supposed to be updated based on what partman-auto says the minimum size is
[12:32] <Kamion> but maybe that's broken
[12:34] <mdz> even with it at 7, I get 'too small size'
[12:34] <Kamion> can you reproduce that with ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 and get me the log?
[12:34] <mdz> likewise with 14
[12:34] <mdz> but 49 is big enough
[12:34] <mdz> will try when this finishes
[12:34] <Kamion> (and as usual, use a throwaway password)
[12:35] <mdz> I always do for test installs
[12:35] <Kamion> if you could try before you perturb the system so that it's no longer reproducible, that would be nice ;)
[12:35] <Kamion> resizing can easily do that
[12:36] <Kamion> I'll need to do another one for 40131 though
[12:40] <ogra> sigh
[12:40] <mdz> Kamion: I don't imagine it's safe to abort the resize
[12:40] <ogra> i hate hate hate bzr slowness
[12:40] <Kamion> ah
[12:40] <Kamion> probably not, no
[12:40] <mdz> the only way to test whether any value was accepted was to click forward
[12:41] <Kamion> mm, true
[12:41] <fabbione> mdz: ok i have the fix for silo. can i upload?
[12:41] <fabbione> mdz: i am still digging in silo installer, but that one probably can wait after beta.. not sure yet if it is even a bug
[12:41] <Kamion> I looked at the code, don't see anything obvious at the moment - syncing images at the moment to see if I can duplicate it
[12:41] <mdz> fabbione: sure, but it may not make it into this next candidate
[12:42] <mdz> Kamion: this was on amd64 fwiw
[12:42] <fabbione> mdz: ports can be built async from the others.. so it shouldn't be an issue
[12:42] <Kamion> fabbione: sparc is no longer ports
[12:42] <Kamion> as far as cdimage is concerned
[12:43] <mdz> Kamion: but it is now possible to build non-ports architectures out of step as well, no?
[12:43] <fabbione> oh ok.. sorry.. give me time to adjust to the new world order
[12:43] <Kamion> mdz: yes, we can rebuild single architectures
[12:46] <Diziet> Is anyone here an expert on pango ?
[12:47] <Diziet> I need to know whether it's sensible to use pango if you think you already know the metrics of the font, and are going to place things yourself.
[12:48] <mdz> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+builds says no pending builds; can that be right?
[12:48] <Diziet> I'm hoping that the answer is `no'.
[12:50] <mdz> Kinnison: what's the most straightforward way for us to require approval for all dapper uploads?
[12:51] <Keybuk> Diziet: do you know that the font contains all the characters you need?
[12:51] <Keybuk> pango's speciality is ensuring you can render any unicode character, and are not limited to those in a particular font
[12:52] <Diziet> Keybuk: It's not me that might be using pango in this way.  Are you providing an argument to say that no-one could reasonably do so ?
[12:53] <Diziet> I would like to do something to pango which would break exactly applications which do that.
[12:54] <Diziet> For example, if evince used pango to do the document's text rendering somehow (obviously this doesn't really fit with the PDF model but it could bodge it somehow for some reason, and anyway it's just an example).
[12:54] <Keybuk> evince does use pango, doesn't it?
[12:54] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, the progress bar has closed and there's no more hard disk activity, so I assume the resize finished, but I still have a busy cursor
[12:54] <Diziet> Not for rendering the text in the main document window, surely ?  I thought that stuff was all defined by the PostScript/PDF font and rendering model.
[12:55] <Diziet> Obviously it uses pango for the widgets etc.
[12:55] <Keybuk> no idea
[12:55] <Keybuk> if it doesn't use pango, how does it render international text?
[12:55] <Kamion> mdz: sounds like a bug
[12:55] <Diziet> Keybuk: PostScript and PDF have their own font and glyph resolution setup.
[12:56] <mdz> Kamion: the Forward button is sensitive, but clicking it doesn't take me anywhere
[12:56] <Kamion> mdz: tail the log, see if it says anything
[12:56] <mdz> Kamion: nothing
[12:57] <Kamion> I need the log attached to a bug report
[12:57] <mdz> last thing in there is a bunch of those recipes.sh 'not a valid identifier' errors
[12:57] <Kamion> there may be something earlier on
[12:57] <mdz> ok
[12:57] <Kinnison> mdz: Hmm, not sure, give me a few minutes to ponder that
[12:57] <ogra> hmm, why do we have universe fonts in the desktop seed
[12:58] <ogra> ttf-lao and ttf-gentium are in both desktop seeds (edu/ubuntu)
[12:59] <mdz> Kinnison: while you ponder, please do some test installs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[12:59] <Kinnison> mdz: sure
[01:01] <Mithrandir> Kamion: the language list is sorted weirdly - norsk bokml, nederlands, norsk nynorsk.
[01:01] <Kamion> Kinnison: the by-hand publisher run I'm doing isn't going to finish quite in time, so I've moved the cronned one back a few minutes
[01:01] <Mithrandir> (probably because of nb_NO, nl_NL, nn_NO?)
[01:01] <Kamion> Mithrandir: please file a bug, I can't deal with stuff on IRC right now
[01:01] <Kinnison> Kamion: sure, you can always disable the cronned one while you do them byhand if you want
[01:02] <Kamion> Kinnison: good idea, done
[01:02] <Kamion> heh, actually it would have finished, but never mind
[01:02] <Kinnison> :-)
[01:04] <mdz> Kamion: log mailed
[01:04] <mdz> Kamion: you want a malone bug as well?
[01:05] <Kamion> mdz: yes please
[01:06] <mdz> Kamion: one or two? ('too small size' and inability to continue after resizing)
[01:06] <Kamion> hmm, just one for now I think, they sound like they may be intertwingled
[01:12] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh, the language list in *gfxboot*. You could have said. :)
[01:13] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, sorry.
[01:16] <lool> hi there, sorry for the bug spam in #40119, I clicked on "Also Needs Fixing Here" by mistake and didn't find how to reverse my action easily
[01:16] <Kamion> mdz: ah, for the bug, please make sure you use ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1; probably not much I can do with the non-debug log in a bug report
[01:17] <mdz> lool: fixed
[01:17] <herzi> mvo: https://launchpad.net/bugs/5752
[01:17] <lool> mdz: thanks
[01:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5752 in update-notifier "TrayIcon-Code is suboptimal" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:17] <lool> mdz: was it under my power to fix it?
[01:17] <mdz> Kamion: perhaps debug should be the default, then?  how hard is it to fix the password disclosure problem?
[01:17] <mdz> lool: probably; the only way to fix it is to set the status to Rejected
[01:17] <mvo> herzi: thanks, I have seen it. but I haven't tried to reproduce it yet
[01:18] <lool> mdz: ok, I'll try to remember that
[01:18] <Kamion> mdz: fiddly; fixing it in debconf in a non-insane way is nearly impossible, sort of like trying to fix it in strace would be
[01:18] <mvo> herzi: or rather, I have when I applied the patch, but not again now :)
[01:18] <Kamion> mdz: so the only approach I can think of is to handle debconf's stderr in espresso and filter it
[01:19] <Kamion> I'm a little concerned about memory use due to log file bloat too - a simple installation in debug mode can easily chew a megabyte
[01:19] <mdz> lool: how did you arrive at that page where you clicked on 'also needs fixing here'?
[01:19] <mdz> lool: and what was the URL?
[01:19] <lool> mdz: I simply loaded the bug report from the URL the submitter sent to ubuntu-devel@
[01:19] <mdz> Kamion: could always gzip the log for the latter problem
[01:19] <mdz> lool: what URL was that?
[01:19] <lool> mdz: I think it was "https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/base-installer/+bug/40119"
[01:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40119 in linux-source-2.6.15 "SPARC boot failed: Illegal Instruction" [Normal,Needs info]  
[01:20] <lool> confirmed from the email https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/base-installer/+bug/40119
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40119 in linux-source-2.6.15 "SPARC boot failed: Illegal Instruction" [Normal,Needs info]  
[01:20] <mdz> lool: I would have expected 'also needs fixing here' to create a task on base-installer, then, but it was on Ubuntu
[01:20] <Kamion> it's no longer filed on base-installer, which is why you got that
[01:20] <lool> mdz: it was on base-installer
[01:21] <lool> mdz: but I tried removing the source package name to delete the reference on base-installer@ubuntu
[01:21] <Kamion> it was originally on base-installer, yes; I moved it to just Ubuntu
[01:21] <Kamion> lool: it's best to go back to launchpad.net/bugs/BUGNUMBER and let the redirector send you to the right place
[01:22] <lool> Kamion: well, I followed the URL of the submitter, I'm not trained to the format of launchpad URLs (yet), I might use the bug number only next time to be safe
[01:23] <Kamion> lool: yes, just saying
[01:24] <mdz> Kamion: how far are we from being ready to do new livefs builds?
[01:24] <Kamion> mdz: source for the fix to bug 40131 is publishing; I'll shove binaries through asap after that
[01:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40131 in espresso "grub-installer  /target exited with code 1" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40131
[01:25] <mdz> Kamion: trying to coordinate with some DC maintenance and ideally would like to start the livefs builds before the lights go out
[01:25] <mdz> Kamion: but if it will be a while, we should do it now
[01:25] <Kamion> I think about an hour
[01:25] <mdz> ok, thanks
[01:26] <nomed> Kamion: going to file a bug .. but first of all could u confirm gtkmozembed is the only module from gnome2-extras "used" by espresso?
[01:27] <Kamion> nomed: it doesn't actually use gtkmozembed any more - the function in question isn't called
[01:27] <Kamion> yeah, suppose I should remove that dependency
[01:27] <nomed> Kamion: yep i've seen
[01:28] <mdz> Riddell: is the latest artwork from Ken in?
[01:28] <nomed> that's what install gnome stuff in xubuntu
[01:28] <Kamion> I don't use anything else
[01:28] <Kamion> nomed: no need for a bug, I'll fix that now
[01:28] <nomed> k thanks
[01:29] <Kamion> although won't upload yet, we have too much else happening
[01:29] <mdz> lool: it seems like a common mistake, but I didn't understand how it was happening, thanks
[01:29] <Riddell> mdz: on the kubuntu side it is yes
[01:29] <nomed> Kamion: i understand
[01:29] <Riddell> mdz: but there's a problem in kde espresso
[01:29] <lool> mdz: the button doesn't look like a button, but I probably won't repeat the same mistake now
[01:30] <mdz> lool: I'll talk to the LP developers about it
[01:30] <mdz> Riddell: what's the problem?
[01:32] <Diziet> WTF does pango need a dbs-a-like for ?  It has one upstream tarball and one patch !
[01:33] <lool> this is the case of a lot of dbs packages
[01:33] <Kamion> Riddell: the log in bug 40143 is relatively clear - I might be able to fix it, actually, since I changed similar code in gtkui not long ago
[01:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40143 in espresso "Bug at step 5 with kubuntu dapper flight 6 and espresso upgrade 0.99.54" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40143
[01:34] <Riddell> mdz: it seems to have started crashing when it shows the progress bar
[01:35] <mdz> Riddell: starting when?
[01:35] <Riddell> Kamion: that's a different bug which is easy to solve
[01:36] <Riddell> mdz: on yesterdays live CDs
[01:36] <Riddell> it seems to be a random evil crash in pykde
[01:37] <ogra> mdz, do i need to poke you to approve my last -meta upload ? it doesnt show up on LP (or am i to impatient ?)
[01:38] <fabbione> ogra: i think LP is in manual mode..
[01:39] <ogra> ah
[01:39] <ogra> thats what i suspected
[01:39] <dholbach> how often are the dvd images built?
[01:40] <fabbione> mdz: why did you reject 40119 ?
[01:40] <fabbione> ah
[01:40] <fabbione> CRAP
[01:40] <fabbione> jeeeee
[01:40] <fabbione> it's so frigging confusing
[01:40] <Kamion> Riddell: could you confirm the fix I just committed to my branch for 40143?
[01:40] <Kamion> er, sorry, just finished pushing now
[01:41] <Kamion> dholbach: twice a week
[01:41] <dholbach> Kamion: ah ok, thanks.
[01:42] <Riddell> Kamion: you also need to put  unicode() around widget.text()
[01:42] <lool> fabbione: sorry, my fault, see discussion here
[01:43] <fabbione> lool: ok no problem..
[01:43] <Kamion> Riddell: wow, annoying interface :) done, pushed
[01:51] <Kamion> anyone have an opinion on where the espresso menu entry should land?
[01:51] <Kamion> Accessories?
[01:51] <Kamion> or System -> Administration?
[01:54] <Kamion> I'm guessing System -> Administration, will move it there
[01:55] <ogra> can anybody please please approve edubuntu-meta 0.65 ? 
[01:55] <seb128> Kamion: admin seems about right since it requires sudo
[01:55] <ogra> Kamion, ? Mithrandir ? ^^^
[01:56] <Kamion> ogra: huh? it's been in accepted for 39 minutes, it'll be in the next cron.daily run
[01:56] <ogra> hmm
[01:56] <Kamion> relax
[01:56] <Kamion>    21773 | S- | edubuntu-meta        | 0.65                 | 39 minutes
[01:56] <Kamion>          | * edubuntu-meta/0.65 Component: main Section: base
[01:56] <ogra> the source doesnt show up anywhere, neither on LP nor on a.u.c 
[01:57] <Kamion> because it's only in the accepted queue, which is not visible
[01:57] <ogra> usually i find it at least on a.u.c ... but as i said above, i'm to impatient
[01:58] <ogra> (waiting 3h again for that dasher change is heavy ...)
[01:58] <zul> heylo
[01:58] <Kamion> ogra: you will never find stuff in accepted on archive.ubuntu.com
[01:58] <ogra> yeah, i usually wait longer before i look :)
[02:00] <ogra> hmm, whats an eft ....
[02:03] <Kamion> ah, cool, I see the launchpad UI has functionality superseding the morgue now
[02:03] <fabbione> Kamion: !!!! where???
[02:04] <ogra> so we can "morguify" via launchpad now ? 
[02:04] <Kamion> /distros/ubuntu/+source/sourcepkgname, click on the version you want
[02:04] <Kamion> ogra: viewing, not changing
[02:04] <ogra> :)
[02:05] <fabbione> neat
[02:08] <fabbione> mdz, Kamion, Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/debdiff <- can you please pre-approve it? i am testing it as we speak
[02:09] <fabbione> will wait after the test for upload. of course
[02:09] <Keybuk> why do things always go south?
[02:09] <Keybuk> why don't they ever go west?
[02:09] <Keybuk> life is different there ...
[02:09] <Mithrandir> fabbione: do you really want to run silo -f "" ?
[02:10] <fabbione> Mithrandir: hmm no.. 
[02:10] <fabbione> right..
[02:11] <fabbione> Mithrandir: debdff updated
[02:12] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: why would it run -f "" ?
[02:12] <Keybuk> that's not zsh
[02:12] <Kamion> fabbione: 'if echo "$bootfs" | grep -q /dev/md'
[02:12] <Kamion> rather than the pointless [] 
[02:13] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: because it was silo -f "$siloopt" and with siloopt being empty, it'd be -f ""
[02:13] <fabbione> Kamion: ok. i had bad experience using that form that's why i don't use it
[02:14] <Kamion> I've been trying to root out [ "$(... | grep)" ] , it's bad shell style
[02:14] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: ah, duh; I was clearly looking at the updated version then :)
[02:14] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: that'd explain it. :-)
[02:16] <Mithrandir> fabbione: apart from that, I'm happy.
[02:16] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ok thanks
[02:17] <Unfrgiven> edgy eft... has a nice ring to the name. ++ from me! (referring to sabdfl's mail on ubuntu-devel)
[02:17] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you might want to fix Kamion's issue too
[02:17] <Keybuk> oh, has that been announced now?
[02:18] <Unfrgiven> Keybuk: just minutes back
[02:18] <fabbione> Mithrandir, Kamion: new debdiff. both issues addressed
[02:18] <fabbione> anything else?
[02:18] <Mithrandir> fabbione: looks good to me
[02:18] <Kamion> fine by me
[02:19] <fabbione> thanks
[02:19] <fabbione> uploaded
[02:19] <fabbione> SCREW THE WORLD SPARC / ON LVM ON RAID OUT OF THE BOX!
[02:19] <Mithrandir> uh, weren't you supposed to test it first?
[02:19] <fabbione> i did
[02:20] <fabbione> dude.. i wasn't doing nothing while uploading debdiff
[02:28] <Riddell> Kamion: seems the evil random crash on kde espresso is fixed by commenting out set_locales
[02:28] <Riddell> I guess gettext is mixing with the inbuilt KDE locale stuff and getting confused
[02:29] <Riddell> Kamion: would you be able to comment out the self.set_locales() call and upload?
[02:29] <Kamion> Riddell: gettext is still needed for timezones
[02:29] <Kamion>         translations = gettext.translation('iso_3166',
[02:29] <Kamion>                                            languages=[self.frontend.locale] ,
[02:29] <Kamion>                                            fallback=True)
[02:29] <Kamion> is there a native KDE replacement for that?
[02:31] <Riddell> yeah I seem to remember there is
[02:32] <Riddell> but I think it'll take me too much time to get it working properly for beta
[02:32] <Riddell> where is self.locale set?
[02:32] <Kamion> how does the timezone page behave if you're in another locale and haven't run set_locales?
[02:33] <Kamion> it's set in the language component's cleanup method
[02:33] <Kamion> probably should be an accessor method rather than reaching in and setting it directly
[02:34] <Kamion> hmm, actually it's possible set_locales isn't needed to make gettext.translation work anyway
[02:34] <Kamion> since after all it's binding to a domain we don't bother to use any more
[02:34] <Kamion> so I'll just remove the code
[02:35] <\sh> hmmm...what about qts setlocale?
[02:35] <Kamion> Riddell: what's the bug number again?
[02:35] <Kamion> \sh: I think it's not needed here, set_locales is actually doing bindtextdomain and stuff despite the method name
[02:35] <Riddell> Kamion: no bug reported for it
[02:35] <Kamion> ok
[02:36] <\sh> Kamion: so only the gettext problem is left
[02:36] <Kamion> \sh: that may well not be a problem either; it's getting a translation from a different domain
[02:37] <Kamion> using the class-based API, not the global-state API
[02:38] <Kamion> which intuitively seems less likely to interfere with pykde
[02:39] <\sh> well, if there is a problem with the interaction between gettext and pykde we should raise it to riverbanks computing...I can check earliest during the weekend..if there is an issue with it
[02:39] <Kamion> Riddell: pushed; can you check my branch?
[02:39] <Kamion> \sh: ah, well, the underlying problem sure, just saying that we've probably worked around the immediate breakage now
[02:40] <\sh> Kamion: cool :)
[02:44] <Riddell> sigh, still seems to crash
[02:44] <Riddell> this is so random
[02:44] <Kamion> is there a traceback or anything?
[02:45] <Kamion> and when does it crash?
[02:45] <Riddell> it crashes when it tries to create a kdialog of any sort
[02:45] <Kamion> score
[02:46] <Riddell> but sometimes it doesn't crash, it was fine when I was writing it and suddenly it was fine when I commented out set_locale
[02:46] <Riddell> but now second time I try its back to crashing
[02:46] <janimo> Mithrandir: archive ready for both xubuntu install and live cd build
[02:46] <Riddell> and kcrash doesn't want to run and give a backtrace
[02:47] <Kamion> janimo: I'll do the install CDs for you now
[02:47] <janimo> Kamion: ok
[02:48] <janimo> what about the lives?
[02:48] <Kamion> not while the Ubuntu livefs build is running
[02:48] <Kamion> mdz wants that ASAP
[02:48] <Kamion> as do I, for that matter :)
[02:48] <janimo> sure, I mean you're the 'contact' for those too?
[02:49] <Kamion> anyone in ubuntu-cdimage, but I can do them, yes
[02:49] <Kamion> well, probably not actually, I don't think all of ubuntu-cdimage have the necessary buildd access
[02:49] <Kamion> me, Mithrandir, infinity
[02:53] <nomed> janimo: PS: firefox home is file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index-en_GB.html in the installed xubuntu (livecd)
[02:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: you miss bzr's speed too?
[02:53] <janimo> nomed, so it does not open? in default install fireofx opened it right
[02:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: doesn't make much of a difference locally
[02:54] <Mithrandir> pitti: oh, true that.
[02:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: and the time I need to manually fix up svn merges by far outweighs the bzr speed penalty...
[02:54] <pitti> (apart from being error prone in the first place)
[02:54] <\sh> fabbione: the default install kernel from ubuntu server, does it have dhcpd and nfs configured?
[02:54] <\sh> dhcp -d ;)
[02:55] <fabbione> \sh: /boot/config....
[02:55] <nomed> janimo: yep it shows File not found error
[02:55] <Riddell> Kamion: ok, looks like it needs the call to self.translate_widgets() in __init__  commented out as well
[02:55] <janimo> nomed, probably because we do not have any translations of the about doc
[02:55] <nomed> janimo: then .. i'm talkin to xarchiver devel ..
[02:55] <janimo> so only with en_US is going to work.  I guess
[02:56] <janimo> nomed, will they be ready soon?
[02:56] <nomed> anything you would ask ?
[02:56] <nomed> janimo: work in progress :/
[02:56] <nomed> no deadlines
[02:56] <janimo> nothing new then
[02:56] <janimo> :(
[02:56] <nomed> janimo: anyway the debian version is buggy
[02:56] <janimo> right
[02:56] <\sh> fabbione: no..not the installed kernel, the kernel on the boot cd :)
[02:57] <nomed> he sent me patches
[02:57] <janimo> I'd rather he made releases :)
[02:57] <fabbione> \sh: it's the same as any other install kernel.. 
[02:57] <\sh> ok..
[02:58] <Kamion> Riddell: that's bad - that genuinely is still needed
[02:58] <Kamion> fabbione: do you want the -server kernel installed on amd64 installs too?
[02:59] <fabbione> Kamion: yes. only x86 and x86_64
[02:59] <Kamion> Riddell: if you comment that out, what happens when you select a different language?
[02:59] <Kamion> Riddell: i.e. does any call to translate_widgets break?
[02:59] <Kamion> fabbione: -bigiron folks get to fend for themselves?
[02:59] <Riddell> Kamion: process_step() also calls translate_widgets() and that works fine
[02:59] <fabbione> Kamion: yeps
[03:00] <Kamion> Riddell: wow, weird
[03:00] <Riddell> yes, it's got me confused
[03:00] <Kamion> Riddell: it'll mean that repeated runs of espresso will have wrong text to start with, though
[03:02] <mdz> back from lunch, how is everything?
[03:02] <mdz> livefs builds in progress?
[03:02] <Kamion> mdz: Ubuntu livefs building, still diagnosing the pykde bug
[03:05] <mdz> ogra: if we could speed it up, we would do it all of the time
[03:06] <ogra> heh :)
[03:06] <Kamion> Riddell: ok, if I do that, is that good to upload?
[03:07] <Riddell> Kamion: no, some more qstring/unicode problems have turned up
[03:07] <Kamion> I've left a todo comment there
[03:08] <Kamion> fabbione: ubuntu-server CDs should use the -server kernel by default now; needs testing after the next build
[03:08] <Kamion> Riddell: (pushed)
[03:08] <mdz> Diziet: my firefox has somehow ended up with enormous fonts for the menu bar, location bar, tabs, form widgets, etc...is this related to the recent font changes, and do you have a guess as to where I should be looking to diagnose it?
[03:08] <fabbione> Kamion: great! will test as soon as they are ready and me a bit more awake
[03:10] <fabbione> bbl
[03:11] <Kamion> mdz: I see the resize problem, but fixing it requires some difficult code in the espresso partman component; is it beta-critical?
[03:12] <mdz> Kamion: nope
[03:12] <Kamion> ok, good, I'll look at it with more leisure later
[03:12] <mdz> Kamion: it doesn't affect *all* resizing scenarios, right?
[03:13] <mdz> Kamion: what do you think about changing the remaining time estimate to be in minutes rather than seconds?  it fluctuates a bit much as it is
[03:14] <Kamion> mdz: it affects all auto-resize scenarios
[03:14] <Kamion> mdz: fine, although I think once it gets below a minute it should be in seconds
[03:14] <mdz> Kamion: hmm..."auto resizing doesn't work" is sort of a big one for the known bugs/caveats list
[03:14] <Kamion> it does work, the UI is just very messy
[03:15] <Kamion> oh, sorry, two conflated issues
[03:15] <Kamion> crap, I hadn't looked at the forward button not working yet, I was just talking about the slider being at zero
[03:15] <mdz> the thing with the slider is not a big deal, but the inability to continue is
[03:15] <Kamion> agreed; investigating now, I see it too
[03:16] <Kamion> that may be a one-liner
[03:16] <mdz> the time estimate goes up and down a lot, especially on laptop drives which spin up and down
[03:16] <mdz> which is why I don't think 1-second granularity is appropriate
[03:17] <mdz> we could make it a decaying average or something, but it seems simpler to just fuzzy it
[03:17] <Kamion> by the time we get to less than one minute left, we have accumulated enough data that I think it should be possible to smooth that out
[03:17] <Kamion> it actually is a decaying average
[03:17] <mdz> oh
[03:17] <Kamion> can easily tweak the decay
[03:17] <mdz> it's surprisingly unstable then
[03:18] <Kamion> oh, no, it's not quite - it samples over a period of time and takes the average of the last minute's worth of samples
[03:19] <mdz> how many samples per minute?
[03:19] <Kamion> which is not really the same thing as a decaying average, although it would probably not be too hard to make it one
[03:19] <Kamion> it samples after every file but only keeps samples that are at least half a second apart
[03:20] <Kamion> so if there are big files in there it could be rather less than 120 samples per minute
[03:21] <mvo> iirc there is a open bugreport about resizing showing no progress information?
[03:21] <Kamion> I didn't want to get into the signal handling or threading required to sample more smoothly than that
[03:23] <Kamion> mvo: it depends on the filesystem, I believe; those bugs are common between d-i and espresso
[03:25] <mvo> Kamion: thanks, it seems to be bug #39685
[03:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39685 in debian-installer "Installer seems to hang during partition resizing, usability issue" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39685
[03:27] <Kamion> mvo: there's almost certainly a bug about that for the regular installer, probably on partman-ext3
[03:31] <nomed> janimo: ping
[03:31] <janimo> nomed: yes
[03:32] <Kamion> mdz: ok, testing a fix for that now, although I think we should go ahead and test images before that fix too
[03:32] <nomed> janimo: #ubuntu-meeting (Current meeting: Xubuntu )
[03:35] <mdz> Kamion: do we have images to test?
[03:35] <Kamion> mdz: not quite yet; they should be nearly done though
[03:35] <ogra> is little busy currently ? or can i do a testbuild of install ?
[03:35] <Kamion> ogra: go ahead
[03:35] <ogra> ah, k
[03:35] <ogra> oh, good :)
[03:35] <Kamion> it's the livefses I'm waiting for, and I can start the live CD build in parallel with you
[03:36] <ogra> yes, i only want to see the size after dropping dasher 
[03:36] <ogra> its very much on the edge, worst case i have to drop something additionally
[03:38] <Kamion> you can use germinate to get size report
[03:38] <Kamion> s
[03:39] <Kamion> do it before and after with local seeds, and you can get the difference
[03:39] <ogra> too late :) already building now
[03:39] <ogra> i'll do it the next time
[03:39] <Kamion> I've set the publisher back to run from cron now
[03:40] <janimo> hmm should this be the correct URL? rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/dapper-install-i386.iso
[03:40] <Kamion> janimo: looks right to me
[03:40] <janimo> unknown module xubuntu
[03:40] <janimo> rsycn error
[03:40] <_ion> % rsync -P rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/dapper-install-i386.iso .
[03:40] <Kamion> oh, cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/... for rsync
[03:40] <_ion> @ERROR: Unknown module 'xubuntu'
[03:41] <Kamion> rsync doesn't support virtual hosting so you have to have the extra /cdimage there
[03:41] <Kamion> to distinguish from other things being served by the same host
[03:43] <janimo> Kamion, thanks
[03:52] <hendry> Kamion: could you tell me please about how the kubuntu livecd is created?
[03:52] <Riddell> hendry: what do you want to know?
[03:53] <mdz> pitti: do you know why the cdimage report says language-support-en is uninstallable on amd64?
[03:53] <pitti> uh, no, I don't
[03:53] <hendry> Riddell: in the scripts it seems to want an image from http://terranova.buildd/
[03:54] <hendry> just wondering how that is setup
[03:55] <Diziet> Are we still in beta freeze ?  If so I need a freeze exception or to be told to wait ...
[03:55] <hendry> kubuntu uses squashfs i think. not sure how casper comes in here.
[03:55] <Mithrandir> Diziet: we're frozen, yes.
[03:55] <Riddell> that'll be the live fs build, probably Mithrandir has the scripts to make it, but just before beta isn't a good time to ask
[03:55] <ogra> hendry, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/debian-cd/ might help
[03:55] <Mithrandir> hendry: that's just a debootstrap + package installations + mksquashfs and it pulls the squashed file system, the initrd and the kernel.
[03:55] <hendry> ogra: yeah, i have that thanks
[03:56] <Diziet> I have what I'm pretty confident is the right fix to the printing vs firefox font issue.  It tests fine for me with firefox and evince, which are the two test cases I've been given, and it feels right.
[03:56] <Diziet> The new packages are fontconfig and pango.  No new firefox needed.
[03:56] <Mithrandir> Diziet: is it crucial for beta?
[03:56] <hendry> Mithrandir: by package installations, do you mean the germinate selections? or just the base system?
[03:56] <Diziet> No, I don't think it's crucial for beta.  Waiting would be OK.
[03:56] <Diziet> We've got doko's reversion of the reversion which will do for the beta.
[03:56] <hendry> Riddell: what do you mean by beta? is there a beta release coming soon?
[03:56] <Mithrandir> hendry: it does something along the lines of apt-get install ubuntu-desktop ubuntu-live
[03:57] <Mithrandir> Diziet: ok, let's wait, then.
[03:57] <infinity> But a bit messier than that.
[03:57] <Mithrandir> hendry: Dapper beta tomorrow, yes.
[03:57] <hendry> Mithrandir: are the scripts in bzr that are used to create the squashfs somewhere?
[03:57] <Diziet> mithrandir: OK.
[03:57] <infinity> hendry: No.
[03:57] <hendry> ok, beta. cool. oh well, i won't bother you guys.
[03:57] <Mithrandir> hendry: no, I'm afraid not.
[03:58] <mdz> hendry: it's just a filesystem image of an installed ubuntu system
[03:58] <hendry> ok, though i was interested in the scripts used to create it. i'm that lazy. =)
[03:58] <hendry> ok, i'm going to relax and watch a movie
[04:00] <pitti> mdz: strange, all dependencies are in main, and it's certainly installable here
[04:02] <pitti> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/dapper_probs.html only complains about l-support-lo, that's just missing the ttf-lao promotion
[04:02] <Kamion> mdz: according to http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/ubuntu-daily-20060419.log it's an overflow
[04:02] <Kamion> search for "CD 1 filled"
[04:02] <pitti> ah
[04:02] <Kamion> somebody please take a couple of language packs out
[04:02] <Kamion> new Ubuntu live CDs up
[04:03] <pitti> Kamion: can you see how big the 2nd CD is? I.e. how many MBs need to be killed off?
[04:04] <mdz> Kamion: ah
[04:05] <mdz> Kamion: I assume you don't need that espresso debug log anymore?
[04:05] <pitti> ah, 1.3 MB
[04:07] <Kamion> mdz: nope
[04:07] <Kamion> pitti: yes, see the log
[04:07] <Kamion> just after the thing I suggested searching for
[04:07] <Kamion> ah, ogra told you
[04:07] <mdz> Kamion: am I reading this right?
[04:07] <pitti> Kamion: yep, see above, 1.3 MB; I adapt the seeds now
[04:07] <mdz> CD 1 will only be filled with 677502556 bytes ...
[04:07] <mdz> didn't we bump up that limit?
[04:07] <Kamion> mdz: that's excluding stuff like dists and boot loaders
[04:08] <mdz> ah
[04:08] <mdz> and winfoss
[04:08] <Kamion> I did bump up the limit, yes
[04:08] <Kamion> no winfoss on install CDs
[04:09] <mdz> oh, do we not even bother with debian-cd for live now?
[04:09] <Kamion> we do
[04:10] <Kamion> although we've kind of sawed off the side of its head
[04:11] <pitti> Kamion: new seeds pushed
[04:12] <ogra> huh
[04:12] <ogra> why do i have sparc images 
[04:12] <ogra> crap, still oversized
[04:13] <Kamion> ogra: we're building sparc as a non-ports architecture now
[04:13] <Kamion> so everyone gets it
[04:13] <ogra> hmm, if i had known that i'd have added debians sparc support patches to ltsp :/
[04:15] <janimo> Kamion, when ubuntu live is done, please trigger xubuntu
[04:16] <janimo> on  non-386 too as it worked for 386
[04:16] <janimo> thanks
[04:16] <ogra> hmm, the log doesnt indicate that its oversized, very strange
[04:17] <Kamion> janimo: building
[04:18] <ogra> Kamion, any idea ? the log doesnt indicate at all that there was anything oversized (http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/edubuntu-daily-20060419.1.log)
[04:19] <ogra> but the report talks about 25 uninstallables
[04:19] <ogra> including alien and lsb
[04:30] <pitti> doko: thank you for your recent printer bug triage rave
[04:31] <mdz> i386 espresso install is looking good; it's at the "bug 34593" stage of installation
[04:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34593 in langpack-locales "removing the package regenerates the locales for ALL other languages" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34593
[04:31] <mdz> pitti: do you have any guesses on that? is it a problem with the debconfiscations?
[04:32] <ogra> damn... what do you drop if you dont know how much space is needed :/
[04:32] <mdz> the least necessary things
[04:32] <pitti> mdz: as a first measure, we could deactivate removal of locales in the first place
[04:32] <ogra> mdz, heh, i'm far beyond that
[04:32] <mdz> pitti: i want to avoid cruft in beta installs; they should be cleanly upgradeable to final
[04:32] <pitti> mdz: they don't exactly hurt, it was mainly for proper cleanup
[04:33] <mdz> with a reasonably equivalent result
[04:33] <doko> pitti: there are still too many open ... did you already decide on cups 1.2 after the beta?
[04:33] <pitti> doko: yes, the packages are looking quite good
[04:33] <pitti> mdz: cruft? you are talking about the locale regeneration, right?
[04:33] <ogra> none of the ally changes were merged in the seeds, that struck me hard tonight ... gnome-ally-themes would gain me a lot, but i'm not sure if i  wanna drop that
[04:33] <mdz> pitti: I mean having the langpacks installed
[04:34] <Kamion> ogra: reload
[04:34] <Kamion> ogra: (the report)
[04:34] <mdz> pitti: did I misunderstand?
[04:34] <pitti> mdz: hm, I'm confused now; I talked about how to speed up langpack purging
[04:34] <Kamion> ogra: or maybe not - anyway it looks fine on little, probably just hasn't mirrored properly
[04:34] <ogra> oh
[04:34] <ogra> the current link is wrong
[04:34] <mdz> pitti: I thought you were suggesting we skip removing the langpacks
[04:35] <pitti> mdz: no, I mean not remove the locales when purging the langpacks
[04:35] <ogra> Kamion, thanks
[04:35] <ogra> that looks better
[04:35] <pitti> mdz: the real solution would be to find a much faster way to remove then without regenerating the other ones
[04:35] <mdz> pitti: yes, I understand now
[04:35] <pitti> mdz: the current binary locale structure should actually make that possible
[04:35] <Kamion> ogra: yep, seems fixed now
[04:36] <ogra> yup
[04:36] <ogra> all fine :)
[04:36] <mdz> pitti: I would not mind leaving the generated locales around to improve the installer experience
[04:36] <trappist> <3 localepurge
[04:36] <pitti> mdz: the bug just never hurt enough to become so important on my list
[04:36] <mdz> pitti: feel free to upload that if it is simple and safe
[04:36] <pitti> mdz: you want it for beta?
[04:36] <ogra> so i'm ready for a livefs build (Kamion, Mithrandir, whoever can trigger one)
[04:36] <Kamion> that will mean that those generated locales never get removed
[04:36] <mdz> pitti: I don't think we need to do a new build for it, but if we do one for another reason, it would be nice
[04:36] <Kamion> ogra: you might be, but the buildds aren't :)
[04:36] <Kamion> ogra: (you're stuck behind xubuntu)
[04:36] <ogra> heh, ok
[04:36] <ogra> i can wait
[04:37] <pitti> mdz: that would require a belocs-locales-bin upload to remove the locale call in /usr/share/locales/remove-language-pack
[04:37] <ogra> as long as i know my isos are well sized ;)
[04:37] <Kamion> mdz: I believe I've fixed the resize bug now, so ...
[04:37] <mdz> pitti: hmm, wait, won't that cause them to show up in the gdm language chooser?
[04:37] <pitti> mdz: it's safe, just leaves cruft
[04:37] <pitti> mdz: presumably
[04:37] <mvo> pitti: will they show up with "locales -a" ?
[04:37] <mdz> pitti: that's not idela
[04:37] <mdz> ideal
[04:37] <pitti> mdz: as I said, it's a workaroud for beta, the real solution is to clean up locales in a better way
[04:38] <mvo> pitti: if so, language-selector will also offer them in the combobox for the default language
[04:38] <pitti> right
[04:38] <mvo> just a data-point, I'm ok with that glitch for beta
[04:39] <mdz> infinity: does usplash_write "TEXT " cause a blank line to be printed?
[04:39] <mdz> infinity: it would be nice to separate the eject prompt from the other text
[04:39] <pitti> mdz: yes, it's a trade-off; I hope I can get the real fix for final; it shouldn't be too hard, but too much for beta
[04:40] <freeflying> bug 40178
[04:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40178 in casper "when boot up livecd with debian-installer/locale=zh_CN , it will generate zh_CN.GB18030 ,but utf-8 shall be the default " [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40178
[04:41] <pitti> freeflying: hm, that sounds like YAFIYGI
[04:41] <mdz> pitti: well, that would let us remove the only remaining known bug/caveat...tempting
[04:41] <Mithrandir> freeflying: then specify which locale you want, not just language and region.
[04:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: YAFIYGI?
[04:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: you asked for it, you got it
[04:42] <freeflying> Mithrandir: zh_CN.UTF-8 is used in dapper deaultly
[04:42] <pitti> mdz: if you have 30 minutes, I can check out a better theory
[04:42] <freeflying> Mithrandir: so it will be the same in livecd
[04:42] <mdz> freeflying: does it DTRT if you select Chinese from the menu?
[04:42] <mdz> freeflying: you shouldn't need to enter a boot option by hand
[04:42] <Surak> hello
[04:43] <Mithrandir> mdz: probably not.  casper does a grep and select the first hit.
[04:43] <Mithrandir> (from /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED)
[04:43] <pitti> freeflying: use locale=zh_CN.UTF-8 then
[04:43] <mdz> Mithrandir: but shouldn't gfxboot give you an exact locale spec?
[04:43] <Surak> Kamion: as monday, dapper's desktop espresso icon disappeared. Is it already back?
[04:43] <mdz> e.g., zh_CN.UTF-8
[04:44] <freeflying> pitti: ya, now I'd do as you said for the livecd remarstered fo chinese users
[04:44] <Kamion> Surak: never seen that bug
[04:44] <freeflying> as Mithrandir said , casper will use the first one in SUPPORTED
[04:44] <Mithrandir> mdz: maybe, and I might be messing up with another bug which is that casper and gfxboot conspires to give you de_AT if you select "german".
[04:45] <freeflying> pitti: why can't I use im-switch in livecd
[04:45] <pitti> mdz: ok, replacing 'locale-gen' with 'rm -rf /var/lib/locale/$1_*' should do the trick
[04:46] <Surak> Kamion: I just booted monday's dapper-386-live and there's no espresso icon on desktop. I am in a slow network connection, so I cannot get today's one. I'll open a bug anyway.
[04:46] <Mithrandir> Surak: that's fixed already.
[04:46] <mdz> pitti: could you clear the testing table for the new build?
[04:46] <pitti> mdz: it simply removes the binary locale data instead of asking locale-gen to throw them all away and regenerate the ones we don't want to remove
[04:46] <mdz> pitti: hmm, wouldn't that leave them in locale.gen?
[04:47] <pitti> mdz: I can, but shall I prepare a belocs-locales-bin upload for that change?
[04:47] <mdz> pitti: to be regenerated the next time locale-gen runs?
[04:47] <Surak> Mithrandir: ok then. What's the package which puts the icon there?
[04:47] <pitti> mdz: no, since /var/lib/locales/supported.d/<LANG> is a shipped file of the langpacks
[04:47] <mdz> Surak: casper, but upgrading it won't make the icon appear
[04:48] <Mithrandir> Surak: casper, but it's already fixed.
[04:48] <mdz> Surak: just rsync a new image
[04:48] <pitti> mdz: i. e. it will automatically be removed if you remove language-pack-*-<LANG>
[04:48] <mdz> pitti: oh, I see
[04:48] <mdz> pitti: that sounds good then
[04:48] <pitti> mdz: that was the reason why we eliminated /etc/locale.gen
[04:48] <Surak> Mithrandir: ok, just to know. Thanks.
[04:48] <mdz> pitti: go ahead
[04:48] <pitti> mdz: that locale-gen call ist just done to actually remove the binary locales
[04:49] <pitti> mdz: ok, I'll clean the page afterwards; I'd like to do some tests with the updated belocs-locales-bin to make damn sure I don't break anything
[04:49] <mdz> dholbach: is it only me, or is there no link from Testing/Introduction or Testing/Current to the actual test instructions?
[04:50] <dholbach> mdz: checking and if there's not, I'll add the links
[04:51] <mdz> pitti: ok, remember to remove it from the known bugs section of DapperBeta once it's confirmed fixed
[04:52] <pitti> sure, I will
[04:52] <Surak> Kamion: I saw a discussion about gnome-screensaver being activated during espresso execution. It just happened here, when I was setting timezone.
[04:53] <ogra> should be fixed a while ago
[04:53] <mdz> dholbach: I was thinking we could adapt the test plan to use example-content, that's a good quick way to test the major applications
[04:54] <mdz> dholbach: e.g., rather than open Writer, open one of the oo.o example documents
[04:54] <dholbach> mdz: right - I'll add that as well
[04:54] <Mithrandir> Surak: please, if you want to help contributing, get a recent cd; we're working as quickly as we can to stamp out bugs, which means that testing of a two day old cd is not very useful.
[04:56] <Surak> Mithrandir: sorry. As I said before, I'm right now on a dial-up connection. No chance to download it right now.
[04:57] <Kamion> Surak: I made espresso call gnome-screensaver-command --poke ages ago, so I guess it must be a gnome-screensaver bug that it kicks in when the timezone is changed
[04:57] <mdz> dholbach,mvo: do you think the test plan shuold use Software Properties rather than Synaptic?
[04:58] <mvo> mdz: synaptic uses software-properties internal (when available) as repository editor, so it shouldn't matter
[04:58] <dholbach> mdz: we could try one in the short test suite and one in the long one, does that make sense?
[04:58] <mdz> mvo: it avoids the synaptic startup dialog and should be simpler to follow
[04:58] <mdz> dholbach: sure
[04:59] <dholbach> mdz: ok, i'll add software properties to the long test suite
[04:59] <mdz> dholbach: I'd do the reverse
[04:59] <mdz> dholbach: software properties on short, synaptic+install-a-package on long
[04:59] <dholbach> mdz: ok, I will do that.
[04:59] <mvo> mdz: right, I agree 
[04:59] <mdz> short should be quick and easy
[04:59] <ogra> Kamion, oh, that could be bug 33331 or bug 36303
[04:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33331 in xscreensaver "moving the clock 1 h forward starts the screensaver" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33331
[04:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36303 in gnome-screensaver "Screensaver kicks in just after ntpdate is run" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36303
[05:00] <ogra> its on my RC buglist here
[05:01] <ogra> but your --poke should immediately unblank it again
[05:02] <Kamion> only after up to 30 seconds
[05:02] <freeflying> bug 40182
[05:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40182 in casper "environment variables about input method can not be set up in today's livecd" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40182
[05:02] <fabbione> re
[05:05] <mgalvin> the launchpad guys said this was not easily possible yet via launchpad directly so might anyone know of a good way to get a rough closed bug count during the dapper dev cycle?
[05:05] <Keybuk> ah, yet again gnome-screensaver demonstrates an utterly stupid bug that should never have happened :)
[05:06] <mgalvin> i tought this might be worth noting on DapperBeta to prove the delay was worth the extra time to fix bugs and such
[05:06] <mgalvin> just a rough number
[05:07] <Keybuk> in theory the launchpad guys could give you that directly from the database
[05:07] <Keybuk> SELECT COUNT(*) FROM bugactivity WHERE datachanged >= 'START OF BETA' etc.
[05:07] <mgalvin> mpt said it would be very intensive atm
[05:08] <Keybuk> datechanged
[05:08] <mgalvin> right
[05:08] <freeflying> pitti: any clue on 40182
[05:08] <ogra> Keybuk, not really, it just shows that there was no improvement over xss 
[05:09] <Keybuk> mgalvin: you could mine it with some python and the launchpad ui
[05:09] <pitti> bug 40182
[05:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40182 in casper "environment variables about input method can not be set up in today's livecd" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40182
[05:09] <Keybuk> find all the Fixed Released bugs, and grab their Bug Activity pages
[05:09] <mgalvin> true
[05:09] <pitti> freeflying: no, sorry, I'm not a casper guru
[05:10] <freeflying> pitti: heh, sorry
[05:10] <mgalvin> Keybuk: maybe i will poke them again and see if someone could whip up a quick query, if not i will do some mining if i have time, thnx
[05:10] <pitti> mdz: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12550 is the necessary change
[05:12] <Riddell> Kamion: kde espresso should be good to merge now
[05:12] <Riddell> and upload
[05:12] <Riddell> you may want to check if the change to partman.py is sane
[05:12] <pitti> ugh, that change just uncovered another bug, but that's not critical
[05:12] <mdz> pitti: go for it
[05:13] <pitti> uploaded
[05:13] <pitti> now awaiting to be beaten up for breaking the installer :)
[05:14] <ogra> oh, beaten
[05:14] <ogra> not eaten :)
[05:14] <pitti> ogra: no, I'm not that fond of cannibalism
[05:14] <ogra> *g*
[05:15] <Kamion> Riddell: argh, I just did
[05:15] <Riddell> aye, sorry for the timing
[05:19] <robertj> hey all, what do you think of a downstream patch to force gksu to reask on bad password?
[05:21] <Mithrandir> freeflying: it'd help if you followed the guildelines in http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html since 40182 currently is impossible for me to understand.
[05:21] <Kamion> Riddell: could you please merge from me first?
[05:21] <mgalvin> mdz: mind if i move "Known Bugs..." to the bottom since that is not a *major* issue people need to know about (and since there is a fix ready anyway)?
[05:22] <Riddell> Kamion: I have
[05:22] <Kamion> mgalvin: it's a major issue for release tracking; the intent AIUI is for it to be gone before beta
[05:22] <Riddell> it's still "Nothing to do"
[05:22] <freeflying> Mithrandir: in my remaster livecd for chinese users , we'd add input method , bu after I do s the same way in in stall cd , the environment variables relate with input method can not be set up as it shall be 
[05:22] <Kamion> Riddell: your branch reverts several of my recent changes
[05:22] <Kamion> this seems to happen frequently
[05:22] <Kamion> I'll fix it up, but it's annoying :(
[05:23] <Kamion> are you sure you're resolving conflicts and committing properly after merging from me?
[05:23] <Mithrandir> freeflying: So you're asking about how to set some environment variables when you have a customised live cd?
[05:24] <freeflying> Mithrandir: I can do it maually , but actrually it shall be as the same as install cd do 
[05:25] <Mithrandir> freeflying: I have no idea what you want to have changed in casper.  You're basically just saying "some environment variables on the live cd are wrong".
[05:25] <Riddell> Kamion: I can see that at least debian/changelog isn't up to date with what's on yours but I definatly merged it all and bzr doesn't want to merge any more, my bzr log includes " releasing version 0.99.57"
[05:25] <Kamion> Riddell: did you commit after merging?
[05:25] <Riddell> yep
[05:25] <Kamion> seems like a bzr bug, perhaps you could file it if you can figure out what's going wrong
[05:26] <mdz> has anyone tested a powerpc image lately?
[05:26] <mdz> i just booted one and GNOME completely shits itself on login
[05:26] <ogra> only yesterdays edubuntu live 
[05:26] <ogra> that worked fine
[05:26] <mdz> notification area, g-s-d, nautilus all fail to start up
[05:27] <Mithrandir> mdz: pitti tried one earlier today, at least.
[05:27] <Kamion> Riddell: wouldn't it be neater for get_autopartition_choice to return unicode(...)?
[05:27] <Kamion> then partman.py wouldn't need to be changed
[05:27] <Kamion> in a way that's kinda weird
[05:27] <ogra> mdke, i'll do a ppc edubuntu install asap
[05:27] <mdz> Mithrandir: elmo did attack this machine with a screwdriver and a knife earlier...
[05:27] <ogra> s/mdke/mdz
[05:27] <pitti> mdz: yep, I tested ppc/install ppc/live and live/espresso, were all good for me
[05:27] <Riddell> Kamion: that broke it in debconf.y
[05:27] <Riddell> debconf.py
[05:27] <Mithrandir> mdz: maybe he scared it.
[05:27] <Kamion> Riddell: scary
[05:28] <elmo> ok, Canonical data centre is dropping off the net for approx. 10 minutes.  This will drop *.ubuntu.com (and kubuntu, edubuntu, etc.), launchpad.net, of the net for that time
[05:28] <Kamion> Riddell: OK, I'll merge this for now, but I'd like us to figure out how to sort out the unicode business properly after beta
[05:28] <Riddell> I agree
[05:28] <Kamion> random workarounds like this scare me because I doubt I'll be able to reproduce them accurately in new code
[05:28] <Kamion> or even preserve them when changing code
[05:31] <mjg59> mdz: What does the clock on the system claim?
[05:31] <mjg59> (The PPC one)
[05:31] <Kamion> oh yeah, clock set to 1904 is a common problem
[05:32] <mjg59> I saw that on an Intel mac last week - the clock claimed to be at 1955
[05:32] <Kamion> (the Mac OS epoch)
[05:32] <mjg59> Blacklisting the rtc module "fixed" it
[05:32] <nomed> i suppose it's a known bug .. but the livecd while shuting down ejects the cd but doesn't switch to tty7 ..
[05:32] <nomed> is this already in malone ?
[05:32] <ogra> but you dont have rtc on ppc
[05:33] <Kamion> it's not an rtc bug AFAIK, the hardware genuinely sometimes gets confused and resets the clock to 1904
[05:33] <mjg59> config.powerpc:CONFIG_GEN_RTC=m
[05:33] <ogra> oh, yes its called genrtc here
[05:33] <Kamion> I could be wrong, I guess
[05:34] <Mithrandir> nomed: reported a long time ago and it should be fixed in the archives and in the newest live cds published.
[05:35] <elmo> going down now...
[05:36] <Kamion> up-to-date xubuntu/live only finished building twenty minutes ago or so
[05:36] <mdz> Kamion,mjg59: yes, clock was fucked, thanks
[05:36] <Kamion> mdz: bug 38845 is one report of this, although I'm sure there was a much older one
[05:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38845 in meta-gnome2 gnome "gnome confused when date not set correctly" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38845
[05:37] <elmo> could we not force the date to be at least 2005 or something?
[05:37] <nomed> Mithrandir: good
[05:37] <elmo> 'cos it's only gnome that gets this confused
[05:37] <carlos> doko: hi, around?
[05:37] <Kamion> I thought that was what the adjtime file in base-files was meant to help with
[05:37] <mjg59> Given what fails, I'd guess that bonobo does something mad when the date is before the epoch
[05:37] <Kamion> Santiago updates it with a reasonable date every so often
[05:37] <Kamion> although I've no idea what actually uses it
[05:37] <elmo> this use to bite me all the time when I was using my powerpc (and not butchering it)
[05:38] <seb128> Kamion: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/23426
[05:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 23426 in gnome-session "Gnome wont start if date is incorrect." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[05:38] <mjg59> elmo: Or we could fix the bug :)
[05:38] <ogra> seb128, you could at least confirm it now ;)
[05:38] <elmo> I don't think falling over a heap when time predates the epoch is entirely unreasonable?
[05:38] <Kamion> seb128: thanks
[05:39] <seb128> ogra: I don't confirm something I've not noticed on my box first :p
[05:39] <ogra> :)
[05:39] <seb128> ogra: and the only time I tried here it didn't break, but I think ntpdate fixed the clock during startup ...
[05:39] <doko> carlos: yes
[05:39] <ogra> it didnt happen ever to me here
[05:40] <carlos> doko: good news, OO.org is fixed now. For breezy and dapper. 
[05:40] <ogra> so Kamion might be right that its HW related 
[05:40] <Kamion> it happens if you run out of battery
[05:40] <carlos> doko: could you remind me where could I get breezy's .po files?
[05:40] <Kinnison> mdz: In a bit I'll have finished my current install test (i386, server mode) at that point would it be worthwhile me preparing a system to do breezy->dapper upgrade tests?
[05:40] <Kamion> to me, anyway
[05:40] <elmo> Kamion: or when the thermal stuff trips and forcibly shuts the machine down
[05:40] <ogra> ah, i never had that case yet
[05:41] <elmo> that's when it always happened to me
[05:42] <slomo> seb128: i had the gnome-doesn't-start-in-1904 bug too some time ago (until i fixed the broken clock on my ibook by add genrtc to /etc/modules)... i can try to reproduce it with the latest everything tomorrow
[05:45] <doko> carlos: I thnk it did put them on rookery, but I cannot reach the machine
[05:45] <carlos> doko: elmo is upgrading the network link atm
[05:45] <seb128> slomo: would be nice :)
[05:45] <carlos> doko: that's enough for me I will look at your home when the servers are available again. Thanks
[05:46] <mdz> Kinnison: yes, it would
[05:46] <carlos> doko: will you do  new oo.org upload for dapper today?
[05:46] <doko> carlos: the release team would kill me ...
[05:46] <dholbach> carlos: we're in Beta freeze, so not likely.
[05:46] <ogra> not only the relase team
[05:47] <ogra> (unless i belong to it)
[05:47] <ogra> :)
[05:47] <doko> ogra: catch me if you can ;-)
[05:47] <carlos> oh, I thought it was until today...
[05:47] <doko> carlos: the day is looong
[05:47] <ogra> doko, will do, i'll soon live around the corner ;)
[05:47] <Kamion> carlos: beta is tomomrrow
[05:47] <Kamion> tomorrow
[05:48] <mdz> Kinnison: are you doing the test plan after your installs?
[05:48] <carlos> :-P
[05:48] <carlos> ok
[05:48] <Kamion> ok, one more espresso upload for Riddell (once the datacentre comes back), and then hopefully I'm done on espresso for the day
[05:49] <ogra> yay
[05:49] <Kinnison> mdz: I believe I am doing something akin to the short testing plan
[05:49] <Kinnison> mdz: but I can't confirm 'cos FF crashed
[05:49] <Kamion> I didn't quite intend there to be quite so many of those uploads today
[05:50] <mdz> Kamion: current build is looking very good, have tested on 3 architectures now
[05:50] <Kamion> mdz: I think we do need to fix the resize bug though
[05:50] <mdz> Kamion: agreed
[05:50] <mdz> happy to get that and pitti's bugfix in
[05:50] <Kamion> and Riddell needs those unicode fixes for Kubuntu, apparently
[05:50] <pitti> \o/
[05:50] <mdz> I can only hang around for another hour or so today, but will resume in the morning
[05:51] <Kamion> I expect to be babysitting builds tonight, mostly
[05:51] <Kamion> I'll do some pre-publishing to releases.u.c if I can 
[05:52] <mdz> Kamion: if anything expected comes up, please SMS
[05:52] <mdz> er, unexpected
[05:53] <Kamion> mdz: will do
[05:53] <mdz> would be a LOT of sms otherwise
[05:53] <Kamion> "hi mdz, world still appears to exist"
[05:53] <mdz> "sun has set"
[05:53] <mdz> "time passes"
[05:53] <Kinnison> "you have not been eaten by a grue (we hope)"
[05:54] <ogra> why is everybody throwing around words my dictionary doesnt know today
[05:54] <fabbione> ahah
[05:54] <ogra> eft 
[05:54] <ogra> grue
[05:55] <Kinnison>   grue n. [from archaic English verb for `shudder', as with fear]  The
[05:55] <Kinnison> grue was originated in the game {Zork}
[05:55] <ogra> ah, thanks
[05:55] <ogra> thats loong time ago ... 
[05:55] <dholbach> or 'leo'
[05:55] <ogra> both way to overheaded
[05:56] <dholbach> hu?
[05:56] <mdz> Kinnison: you know about update-manager -d, yes?
[05:56] <Kinnison> mdz: yep
[05:56] <Kinnison> mdz: My dad was telling me about it
[05:56] <ogra> dholbach, ding doesnt need a dict server ;)
[05:56] <mdz> Kinnison: does he subscribe to the wiki or something?
[05:56] <Kinnison> mdz: all he said was that he was doing upgrade testing for mvo
[05:56] <mdz> oh
[05:57] <dholbach> ogra: leo is a command line thingie, which looks up in LEO, which is nice for me - and you don't need to run a dict server for that :)
[05:57] <Kinnison> and he wondered where the jabber server I'd given him an acct on was
[05:57] <ogra> dholbach, leo doesnt use a dict server ? 
[05:57] <ogra> thats news to me
[05:57] <thom> ogra: dict doesn't need a local dict server
[05:57] <ogra> i know
[05:58] <dholbach> ogra: it uses dict.leo.org
[05:58] <ogra> dict doesnt help me if i'm at an airport without hotspot ;)
[05:58] <ogra> ding does ;)
[05:58] <dholbach> ogra: stop complaining! :)
[05:59] <ogra> i didnt complain
[05:59] <ogra> i'd never ever complain... you know me ;)
[06:03] <CarlFK> Kamion: my current preseed makes the installer loop till it runs out of ram - should that be possible? (as in which needs to be fixxed: installer or my preseed)
[06:04] <elmo> sorry, the network maintenance is taking longer than expected, we'll be back online as soon as possible
[06:07] <Kamion> CarlFK: probably shouldn't be possible for it to run out of RAM, but looping isn't necessarily a bug - depends where it is
[06:07] <CarlFK> it runs out of room for the log file
[06:08] <Kamion> oh, heh
[06:08] <CarlFK> somewhere around the partitioning
[06:08] <Kamion> preseeding partman in particular could easily cause a loop
[06:11] <CarlFK> I still don't kwow where to look for docs on how to create the preseed file - this is pretty out of date: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/apcs01.html
[06:12] <elmo> ok, network is back at the DC, sorry for the inconvenience
[06:14] <Kamion> CarlFK: well s/hoary/breezy/ for a start would be an improvement
[06:14] <Kamion> CarlFK: current dapper docs are on doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/install/
[06:15] <CarlFK> hey, look at that... thanks
[06:19] <dholbach> Kinnison, Riddell: are you ok with me announcing the HUGDAY with the announce as it is?
[06:19] <mdz__> dholbach: thanks for the notification
[06:19] <mdz__> pitti: without your fix, I think langpack removal actually takes longer than copying the files
[06:19] <dholbach> mdz__: :-)
[06:20] <pitti> mdz__: indeed :/
[06:20] <Riddell> dholbach: yeah I think so, I added a link to klaptopdaemon bugs in the wiki page
[06:21] <dholbach> Riddell: yeah, I noticed - thanks for that.
[06:21] <dholbach> if mjg59 and Kinnison are happy with it, I send it out.
[06:21] <seb128> Surak: I closed bug #39002 again since you didn't subscribe to the bug after reopening and doesn't reply to comments on it
[06:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39002 in nautilus "Can't rename _SOME_ icons when they are on destkop." [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39002
[06:22] <seb128> Surak: feel free to reopen if you have a clear comment on what your issue is with the new version
[06:22] <Surak> seb128: hum, my mistake
[06:22] <seb128> Surak: bug is fixed for you?
[06:23] <dholbach> mdz: I was just testing bluetooth with gnome-phone-manager :)
[06:23] <Surak> seb128: I have a daily live from monday. Let me update it and I can tell you
[06:23] <seb128> ok, thank you
[06:23] <Surak> by the way, where can I find daily live builds via rsync? Ain't find it yet.
[06:27] <Kamion> Surak: cdimage.ubuntu.com::cdimage/daily-live/current/
[06:28] <jpatrick> Kamion: kubuntu-artwork-kbfx bug was fixed a while ago
[06:30] <Kamion> ogra: you have updated edubuntu/live builds
[06:31] <ogra> oops, recent usplash is heavily broken for me
[06:31] <ogra> on shutdown
[06:31] <mdz> works fine here x3
[06:31] <ogra> amd64 with widescreen 
[06:31] <Kamion> jpatrick: oh, sorry, feel free to close, I was processing NEW and didn't notice the one at the top
[06:31] <ogra> the graprics sit on the most right edge
[06:31] <mdz> nothing graphics-related has changed
[06:31] <mdz> in ages
[06:31] <jpatrick> Kamion: already done
[06:31] <ogra> bootup is fine though
[06:32] <ogra> it worked yesterday ...
[06:32] <mdz> Kamion: is this the really truly last espresso upload before the next candidate build?
[06:32] <Kamion> mdz: I certainly hope so
[06:32] <Kamion> there are no other beta-relevant issues I know of at present
[06:33] <mdz> me either
[06:33] <mdz> so if these fixes take, and there are no regressions, we'll be in good shape in the morning
[06:33] <Kamion> jpatrick: binaries accepted
[06:34] <jsgotangco> dholbach: bluetooth with gnome-phone-manager works fine on my side too (dapper) just to let you know (toshiba bluetooth chipset)
[06:34] <dholbach> jsgotangco: nice.
[06:35] <dholbach> jsgotangco: the only problem seems to be incoming notifications for SMS and I forwarded that upstream already
[06:35] <jsgotangco> we just don't have great phone stuff yet though
[06:35] <jpatrick> anyone know what might be causing this: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/669545 ?
[06:36] <dholbach> jsgotangco: there's some wxgtk stuff ammu, gammu, wammu or something - it's deemed to be quite good
[06:37] <ogra> mdz, looks like it was a one timer, probably caused by the upgrade i just did, usplash looks ok now on reboot
[06:39] <jsgotangco> wammu
[06:40] <jsgotangco> it doesnt seem to be packaged too
[06:40] <ogra> and even if it would... it would pull wxgtk to main if we'd ship it ... *shudder*
[06:41] <dholbach> jsgotangco: oh it is in debian, it seems, at least gammu
[06:41] <dholbach> ogra: nah, not for main
[06:41] <jsgotangco> nahh
[06:41] <dholbach> ogra: g-phone-m is not in main either
[06:41] <ogra> ah, fine then
[06:43] <thom> jsgotangco: as in sun's Fault Management Arch stuff? yes, it'd be hella useful - somewhat hard to for linux since you'd need a centralised way to manage and present the faults
[06:43] <HiddenWolf> ogra: please do, i'm going to get one. ;)
[06:44] <ogra> HiddenWolf, ah, i only know two other motorola users
[06:44] <ogra> i'll see to get it ready for dapper+1
[06:44] <HiddenWolf> I'm a fashion victem, can't help it. :)
[06:45] <jsgotangco> ogra: my wife has it too, the one in hot pink
[06:45] <ogra> i just needed a new mobile and it was cheap 
[06:45] <HiddenWolf> "cheap"?
[06:45] <ogra> (and slim, you should have seen my former one)
[06:45] <HiddenWolf> ogra: I really don't want to know what you call expensive. 
[06:45] <ogra> yes, 10 if you sign a new contract ...
[06:46] <ogra> which i needed anyway
[06:46] <HiddenWolf> *chuckle* ah. The phone itself is 700 euro.
[06:46] <ogra> i wouldnt have bought it ...
[06:46] <ogra> and thats totally offtopic for a pre beta day in #ubuntu-devel :)
[07:08] <janimo> seb128: if user has no Desktop directory gnome/nautilus creates it right?
[07:08] <janimo> for new users on first run
[07:08] <seb128> right
[07:09] <janimo> seb128: what's your plan re gaim2.0, still waiting on user feedback?
[07:09] <mdz> seb128: grr, you stole my lock on Testing/Current
[07:10] <seb128> mdz: ups sorry, I had the page opened for some minutes and didn't notice ...
[07:10] <seb128> janimo: no plan, when is due gaim2.0.0 ?
[07:10] <janimo> seb128: dunno, jus saw that you have put up beta2 packages a while ago for testing
[07:10] <janimo> I thought it was part of a plan :)
[07:11] <ogra> yes, the plan was to get test results ;)
[07:11] <dholbach> seb128: it seems that gaim2.0beta3 seems to close more bugs than it opens, no? :-p
[07:11] <seb128> janimo: beta3
[07:11] <janimo> the only thing people I know miss from 1.5 that's in 2.0 is login as invisible on yahoo
[07:11] <mdz> seb128: I broke down espresso into multiple cases; please correct if I didn't get it right (I assumed you erased)
[07:12] <seb128> mdz: updated, that was a custom partition install :)
[07:12] <Surak> seb128: bug 39002 is still there. Live fully updated. I subscribed to it and I will detail it better, ok?
[07:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39002 in nautilus "Can't rename _SOME_ icons when they are on destkop." [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39002
[07:13] <seb128> Surak: ok
[07:15] <seb128> I'm away for dinner, bbl
[07:16] <Surak> ok
[07:22] <fabbione> meh who did break the wiki table?
[07:25] <fabbione> there
[07:27] <Kamion> mdz: should the table be updated for live 20060419?
[07:29] <Kamion> fabbione: you have updated ubuntu-server images now, BTW
[07:30] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[07:30] <Kamion> mdz: we need new install CD builds for (at least) the removal of dasher from desktop, right?
[07:30] <Kamion> and I guess the splashdown stuff
[07:30] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks. i was testing server netinstall in the meantime
[07:33] <fabbione> speaking of which i need to test ppc netinstall
[07:34] <janimo> Kamion, does espresso create a ~/Desktop dir explicitely?
[07:36] <Mithrandir> janimo: casper does.
[07:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: we do, yes.
[07:36] <janimo> Mithrandir: ok thanks
[07:36] <ogra> hmm, no wireless for me on the liveCd
[07:37] <ogra> i mean not without sudo dhclient eth1
[07:37] <Mithrandir> ogra: what does /e/n/i look like?
[07:38] <ogra> no eth1 in there
[07:38] <ogra> auto eth0
[07:38] <ogra> iface eth0 dhcp
[07:38] <ogra> and the usual lo line
[07:38] <ogra> s/line/lines/
[07:38] <Mithrandir> what kind of wifi interface?
[07:38] <ogra> orinoco silver
[07:38] <ogra> pcmcia
[07:39] <Mithrandir> oh, the initramfs doesn't do pcmcia.
[07:39] <ogra> i think seb mentioned the same 
[07:39] <ogra> he had also to use dhclient to get it working with yesterdays live
[07:40] <ogra> thats an evil regression, should be fixed for release imho
[07:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, it's building
[07:41] <Mithrandir> ogra: just install nm and it'll dtrt. :-P
[07:41] <ogra> nope
[07:41] <ogra> it breaks because of missing dh_iconcache
[07:41] <ogra> i had NM on the Cd until tonight
[07:42] <Mithrandir> ogra: uh, network-manager breaks because of missing dh_iconcache?
[07:42] <ogra> yes, its icon isnt in the cache and you get a weird warning about "ressources not found"
[07:42] <ogra> very microsoftish
[07:43] <ogra> aside from that, NM doesnt work with orinoco :)
[07:55] <dilinger> is there a plan for the next ubuntu conference yet?
[07:55] <Tonio_> Kamion: reuploading a valid version of knetworkmanager... sorry for the errors on the packaging...
[07:55] <Burgwork> dilinger, yes, but nothing public yet
[07:55] <Kamion> Tonio_: no problem
[07:55] <fabbione> dilinger: sometimes after Dapper release, unknown location
[07:55] <dilinger> fabbione: not even a continent? :)
[07:56] <Tonio_> Kamion: that's what happen when I'm working just out of the bed without a coffee... :)
[07:56] <Burgwork> the rumours say Germany
[07:56] <dilinger> cool
[07:56] <ogra> then the rumors dont know about the soccer championship
[07:57] <Kamion> Burgwork: the rumours are outdated; Germany was the plan before we rescheduled Dapper, but now it clashes badly with the World Cup
[07:57] <Kamion> i.e. travel would be a nightmare
[07:57] <ogra> accomodation as well
[07:57] <fabbione> dilinger: EU
[07:58] <dholbach> . o O { "Ooooh, sorry Mark - can't be at the BoF tomorrow, I ... hum... um... can't make it." *run* }
[07:59] <janimo> can the soccer championship be delayed by 6 weeks?
[07:59] <ogra> janimo, man, why didnt you ask earlier
[07:59] <dilinger> fabbione: will there be mentos? ;p
[07:59] <dholbach> janimo: you could try and write a friendly email
[07:59] <fabbione> dilinger: i hope so :)
[07:59] <janimo> yeah I thought it may be too late
[07:59] <ogra> now its a bit late already
[07:59] <fabbione> dilinger: but i won't be there this time..
[08:00] <dilinger> fabbione: aw
[08:02] <ogra> huh ? why that ? 
[08:07] <Burgwork> Kamion, bloody people and their bloody little balls ;)
[08:07] <Kamion> Kinnison: help, publishing/cron.daily is crashing
[08:08] <fabbione> ogra: too close to my wife release...
[08:08] <Kamion>   File "/srv/launchpad.net/codelines/soyuz-production/scripts/ftpmaster-tools/../../lib/canonical/archivepublisher/pool.py", line 62, in unpoolify
[08:08] <Kamion>     raise ValueError("Path %s is not in a valid pool form" % path)
[08:08] <ogra> fabbione, ah, yes, i already thought about the littel sparc admin
[08:08] <Kamion> path is empty
[08:08] <ogra> *little
[08:09] <fabbione> ogra: he is going to be my SAN manager ;)
[08:09] <ogra> hehe :)
[08:11] <dholbach> "Live CD install, erase disk (amd64)" looks good
[08:11] <Kinnison> Kamion: sorry, was reading a doc -> over there :-)
[08:11] <Kinnison> Kamion: give me a sec
[08:11] <Kamion> ah, cool, thanks
[08:12] <ogra> i'm just seeing espresso for the first time beyond the partitioning (where it crashed the last times i tried) 
[08:12] <ogra> really impresso
[08:12] <Kamion> Kinnison: it crashed due to DNS problems (I think) while the DC link was down, and it hasn't managed to run to completion since
[08:12] <Kamion> ogra: thanks :)
[08:12] <Kinnison> Kamion: right
[08:12] <Kinnison> Kamion: it's not currently trying, yes?
[08:12] <Kamion> indeed not
[08:13] <Kinnison> try now
[08:13] <Kamion> running
[08:13] <Kamion> (output piped to mail lp_archive)
[08:14] <Kinnison> but not tee?
[08:14] <Kinnison> :-(
[08:14] <Kamion> can't tee and pipe to mail at the same time ...
[08:14] <Kamion> at least not tee to the terminal
[08:15] <Kamion> need a tee-to-subprocess
[08:17] <Kinnison> screen 0, foocommand | tee /tmp/magicfifo | mail
[08:17] <Kinnison> screen 1, cat /tmp/magicfifo
[08:17] <Kinnison> or similar
[08:17] <Kinnison> I forget whether that'd work
[08:17] <Kinnison> if not, tail -f is good
[08:17] <Kinnison> but anyway
[08:17] <Kinnison> it hasn't crashed yet?
[08:18] <Kamion> if I don't have a command to do it, I won't bother in practice :)
[08:18] <Kamion> not yet
[08:18] <Kamion> and it's in publish-distro.py
[08:18] <Kamion> what did you change?
[08:19] <Kinnison> I deleted the temporary file in the pool which it had been downloading into
[08:19] <Kinnison> I really ought to add a try: finally: to delete that if something goes wrong
[08:19] <Kamion> ah, heh
[08:19] <Kamion> noted for future reference
[08:20] <Kinnison> unsurprisingly, pool/.temp-download.Ita1sE was not a valid pool filename
[08:20] <elmo> Kinnison: or not right it in the pool ?
[08:20] <Kamion> instead of or as well as the try/finally, the publisher probably needs to handle temporary files still existing anyway, in case of a power cut
[08:21] <elmo> 'cos try/finally isn't going to catch me powering the machine off, f.e.
[08:21] <Kamion> (for example)
[08:21] <Kinnison> elmo: it's written into the top level of pool/ in case it's on a different filesystem
[08:21] <Kinnison> elmo: since rename() doesn't work well across FS boundaries
[08:21] <elmo> Kinnison: make your own tmp directory in /srv/launchpad.net then
[08:22] <doko> Kamion, mdz: still time for uploads for bug fixes for the beta? i.e. bug 39604
[08:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39604 in gnome-cups-manager "gnome-cups-add can take a long time to start up, with no user feedback" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39604
[08:22] <Manny_> hi
[08:22] <Kinnison> elmo: actually I think making the pool reader notice and clean up the temp files is a better plan
[08:22] <Manny_> azeem, what would you suggest, I want to create gnome-accessibility-foo (cf. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/MetaPackage)
[08:22] <Kamion> doko: at this stage, that bug doesn't seem beta-critical to me
[08:22] <elmo> Kinnison: keeping the archive that mirrors can see as consistent as possible is a good thing, but *shrug*
[08:23] <elmo> (s/mirrors/master mirrors/)
[08:23] <azeem> Manny_: hrm, -all might make sense, maybe repeat your question here for more input
[08:23] <Manny_> 20:20:15 <Manny_> I want to build multiple metapackages, a few specific ones and a meta-metapackage. I want to use meta-package-foo, meta-package-bar, meta-package-foobar. Now, should I name the meta metapackage meta-package-all or meta-package?
[08:23] <Kamion> it's minor - should definitely be fixed for final, but not worth waiting for
[08:26] <dholbach> Manny_: are there lots of things you'd let those meta packages depend?
[08:27] <dholbach> Manny_: and quite a bunch of a11y related package turned up in ubuntu-desktop lately
[08:28] <Kinnison> elmo: If I'm allowed to require at the code level that the misc and pool paths are on the same filesystem, I can make the temps in the misc path before rename()ing it
[08:29] <ogra> bah, the espresso installed system indeed uses the wrongly detected X resolution of the liveCD
[08:29] <ogra> how bad
[08:30] <Manny_> dholbach, I'm not sure, but the wiki page I referenced above lists some of them and I think this is VERY useful
[08:31] <fabbione> Kamion: i might come back later to test the new base-installer..
[08:31] <Manny_> I recently received an email from a disabled person who couldn't find a linux a11y live cd, having the packages will make the creation of the CD significantly easier
[08:31] <elmo> Kinnison: I've yet to split up anything in /srv across filesystems after 2 years and n machines, but I'm not really fussed, your way will work with random power cycles too and that's all I really care about
[08:31] <thom> uh, is it just me that thinks the new update-notifier icon looks remarkably like it wants me to reboot?
[08:31] <Kinnison> elmo: *nod*
[08:32] <ogra> thom, i heard that today in here already, so no :)
[08:32] <dholbach> thom: the world seems split about this icon, but the designer was notified about it being a bit generic.
[08:32] <thom> heh, fair enough
[08:33] <ogra> hmm, am i supposed to have drive icons on my desktop ?
[08:33] <ogra> especially PQSERVICE seems very strange
[08:34] <HiddenWolf> only if they're removable
[08:34] <dholbach> Manny_: maybe... yes.
[08:34] <dholbach> Manny_: gnome-orca and xcursor-themes are in universe - the rest is in main already.
[08:35] <Manny_> ah, ok
[08:36] <dholbach> Manny_: most of it should be pulled in by ubuntu-desktop already.
[08:36] <dholbach> Manny_: x-10 is not packaged yet.
[08:36] <dholbach> at least not to my knowledge
[08:36] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: btw, nautilus and gtk filechooser are showing the unmounted usb/flash ports and empty cdrom drives as places. Is that the expected behavior?
[08:40] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: i never wondered about that - i just checked the filechooser
[08:41] <ogra> looks like g-v-m or hal
[08:41] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: it makes sense to me, if you double click on them you can mount them
[08:41] <ogra> but they are automounted if you plug them in anyway
[08:42] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: I have a 7:1 hub in my monitor, all those empty things show, which is odd
[08:42] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: when did that start happening?
[08:42] <dholbach> phone, brb
[08:43] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: 2.12 -> 2.13. thought about it when ogra mentioned the drive icons
[08:54] <jordi> Kamion: should we import oem-config translations, or is that going to be in the d-i template?
[08:54] <Kamion> ogra: espresso deliberately uses the currently configured X setup, so that you can change it and have it persist
[08:54] <Manny_> dholbach, maybe you could handle this package creation? I created a little control file, but my rules file obviously isn't correct
[08:55] <ogra> Kamion, the problem is that none of my widescreen displays are configured correctly, the former liveCD fell back to ask for the resolution since it cant be determined, the new one doesnt do that anymore
[08:55] <Kamion> jordi: I guess it should be added to debian-installer
[08:56] <Kamion> ogra: conflicting requirements, I'm afraid
[08:56] <Kamion> I understand both of them
[08:56] <jordi> Kamion: should I block it?
[08:56] <Kamion> jordi: yes please
[08:56] <ogra> so i'm stuck on 1024x786 on all new laptops here ... only the old ones with regular resolution work
[08:56] <Kamion> ogra: in order to use the live CD well with your monitor, you presumably have to reconfigure X
[08:56] <ogra> yep
[08:56] <Kamion> ogra: if you do, that reconfiguration will be copied to the installed system
[08:57] <ogra> but its a regression that hits 3/5 laptops over here 
[08:57] <Kamion> it's not an espresso regression
[08:57] <ogra> nope
[08:57] <ogra> its a liveCD regression
[09:00] <Kamion> right, but one we knew about and decided to accept while doing simplifiedlivecd
[09:00] <ogra> for me it hits the majority of systems ... 
[09:01] <ogra> thats all i want to note
[09:01] <Kamion> perhaps xresprobe can be improved for some of your systems; have you tried that approach?
[09:01] <Kamion> that approach is really preferable in the medium term
[09:01] <ogra> it can only use what ddcprobe gives it
[09:01] <ogra> and on all these laptops ddcprobe is useless
[09:02] <ogra> the installer usually falls back to ask on all of them
[09:02] <Kamion> in theory, we could extend xresprobe to know about specific laptop models
[09:02] <ogra> hmm, true 
[09:02] <Kamion> there is probably some way to distinguish them, even if it isn't EDID/DDC
[09:02] <Kamion> and even if it has to be a horrible giant lookup table, that's probably better than nothing
[09:03] <elmo> dmi info will tell you the make & model on most any laptop
[09:03] <ogra> sure you can go back to xfree 3.x times and have a monitor database again
[09:03] <ogra> together with the autodetection that might cover 99%
[09:04] <Kamion> sometimes the older times had it right
[09:04] <ogra> yep
[09:04] <Kamion> the database would be significantly smaller than it used to be
[09:04] <ogra> but merging both attempts seems to be the best way 
[09:05] <ogra> yup
[09:05] <ogra> looking into dexconf should be on dapper+1 goals anyway ...
[09:05] <wasabi> elmo: I had a failed upload of "gapti" (should be NEW) a few days ago. Infinity mentioned it failed but he didn't have time to find the reason. I received no failure email, so I'm a bit in the dark about what went wrong.
[09:05] <wasabi> elmo: I can wait for infinity if you don't know. ;)
[09:06] <neutrinomass> Question: I'm thinking of filing a specification for dapper+2 with regards to the boot process. Basically, it will be about examining alternative boot systems (eg. initNG) and picking out the "best", so that we can speed up the boot process. This must have been discussed before, but I find no similar specification. Does such a spec have a future ?
[09:06] <ogra> it has a past ... since hoary iirc ... must be somewhere on the wiki 
[09:06] <ogra> (dont ask me for a name)
[09:08] <elmo> wasabi: sorry, I don't know why it failed offhand either - there's nothing obviously wrong with  the .changes or the .dsc
[09:08] <elmo> wasabi: I suggest you file a bug on qprocd (or whatever it's called these days) in launchpad
[09:09] <wasabi> Ya know. It might be my gpg key. Can you check if the one ya'll have on record has an expiration date? Or tell me where to check.
[09:09] <elmo> wasabi: your person page in launchpad
[09:09] <wasabi> k
[09:09] <elmo> if you had an expiry date and later updated it, LP won't refetch the key that's a known bug
[09:10] <elmo> but you should file a bug anyway, because you should have gotten a reject notice
[09:11] <wasabi> I haven't even been following enough to know LP was in charge of this now.
[09:13] <janimo> neutrinomass: search the wiki there are very generic specs related to that
[09:15] <neutrinomass> janimo: I found a spec related to speeding up the boot process (which InitNG __dramatically__ does), but not focused on the boot per se but on gnome. Let me search again :)
[09:15] <janimo> neutrinomass: not sure, but I think it was called fasterboot or something
[09:16] <janimo> however the view seems to be that initNG does not solve the larger problems of sysvinit, and parallel/faster boot should be just one of the benefits of the new system
[09:16] <thom> neutrinomass: there were a number of discussions previously, but nothing really filled the needs we had
[09:17] <janimo> rumor has it there could be a solaris SMF reimlementation
[09:17] <thom> there's also launchd which people rave about
[09:17] <thom> (the apple one)
[09:17] <janimo> and both of them use evil licences
[09:18] <ogra> heh
[09:18] <jdub> janimo: there is nothing major wrong with the CDDL
[09:18] <thom> tseng: *g*
[09:18] <jdub> janimo: APSL is a different story
[09:18] <janimo> jdub: why are people talking about reimplementing SMF instead of just porting it?
[09:18] <thom> VIBE OUT!
[09:18] <wasabi> Yeah I'd like to see solaris' tool.
[09:18] <wasabi> I did some reading on it's arch. It sounds solid.
[09:18] <ogra> feel the vibe :)
[09:18] <jdub> janimo: because 'people' are stupid
[09:18] <neutrinomass> janimo: Yes. A really far-fetched thing would be to create our own boot system, based on exactly what we need. The paralellism is absolutely essential though ...
[09:19] <wasabi> I doubt there's any want or need to create our own. :)
[09:19] <thom> neutrinomass: is it? it doesn't buy you much; we played with it
[09:19] <jdub> janimo: (that said, part of SMF relies on a kernel feature, which would have to be reimplemented, but it's not entirely necessary)
[09:19] <janimo> jdub: that;s cool. I thought sun was evil and purpposely not going with GPL-friendly lic
[09:19] <jdub> neutrinomass: do some basic testing - parallelism doesn't get you as much as you think
[09:19] <neutrinomass> thom: It is. I used it on Gentoo and it halved my boot time..
[09:20] <wasabi> It's not parallelism, it's accounting, that is liked.
[09:20] <wasabi> imo. ;0
[09:20] <jdub> janimo: they purposefully did not use the GPL, but that does not entirely result in 'evil'
[09:20] <thom> neutrinomass: then the gentoo boot process is very suboptimal as it stands, IME
[09:20] <neutrinomass> wasabi: initNG is GPL, isn't it ?
[09:20] <janimo> jdub:  Keybuk said something about him working a SMF reimpl . was he not serious?
[09:20] <janimo> could keybuk not be serious? :)
[09:20] <jdub> neutrinomass: no, what halved your boot time was a horrorshow "init but without doing what init does" joke
[09:21] <jdub> janimo: he's more fond of launchd
[09:21] <neutrinomass> thom: Actually gentoo boot pretty fast (which is to be expected, since you only start exactly what you want). AFAIK they have written their own initscripts, and a "stock" installation (base+gnome) boots faster than dapper :(
[09:22] <neutrinomass> jdub: Okay, it wasn't half. It was 27 seconds to KDE desktop vs. 44 seconds, with the kernel taking 7 seconds before init kicked in. 
[09:23] <neutrinomass> janimo: Heh, I was thinking of it too :)
[09:23] <janimo> problem is too many of us think, and nobody does :)
[09:30] <thom> janimo: better than the alternative, which is 300 different boot processes, all with their authors whining about theirs being the best, and none actually working :-)
[09:30] <Kamion> neutrinomass: the process of getting Scott to go over the random scattergun boot process in breezy and optimising it saved similar amounts, though
[09:30] <janimo> :)
[09:31] <thom> yeah, the savings from mataro and similar processes in breezy were quite insane
[09:31] <janimo> still getting rid ov evm/raid would still be welcome
[09:32] <janimo> initedby default not totally of course
[09:32] <thom> janimo: a lot of people need it; if it bothers you, just delete the symlinks from /etc/rc*.d and they won't come back
[09:33] <thom> janimo: the problem with stuff like that is they're very machine/install specific optimisations
[09:33] <janimo> a lot more people don;t need it though probably 100:1 :)
[09:33] <neutrinomass> Kamion: Sorry, I'm not familiar with that. Sounds like a great improvement but still there's some work to be done, right ? :)
[09:33] <thom> dilinger: dude :-)
[09:33] <janimo> and they are far more likely to be able to enable it than the casual user
[09:34] <janimo> anyway
[09:34] <Kamion> neutrinomass: we expect people talking about this sort of stuff at least to be running dapper somewhere :)
[09:34] <neutrinomass> thom: Won't people who use RAID know how to enable it ?
[09:34] <neutrinomass> Kamion: I am on Dapper. I just joined the community though, so I didn't go through 5.10 :)
[09:34] <thom> neutrinomass: *shrug*; the argument is really "should we install this kind of stuff by default" - as currently we do, it has to be enabled
[09:34] <Kamion> neutrinomass: we're not going to regress out-of-the-box support under any circumstances; whatever happens, stuff like LVM and RAID needs to work when you ask the installer to do that
[09:35] <Kamion> (well, not deliberately)
[09:35] <Kamion> neutrinomass: recent> ah, ok
[09:35] <j^> neuralis why would one want to know how to use RAID?
[09:35] <neutrinomass> thom: There was some discussion on the mailing list on this, although it doesn't seem like it's headed somewhere.
[09:36] <janimo> wow, oowriter start/new file/type a few letters/save/close cycle on a 64M machine, in well under 15 minutes
[09:37] <neutrinomass> j^: People who use RAID know what it is right? They are also a minority. From my really humble point of view, if somebody wants RAID it won't be hard to enable it and the 19/20 people who don't use RAID and don't know how to disable it would benefit.
[09:37] <ogra> j^, hey, i once learnt it out of curiosity, later that knowledge got me a job ... knowledege pays sometimes ;)
[09:37] <thom> neutrinomass: i think your numbers are wrong, and i also think that a lot more people use it because it just works than you think
[09:38] <neutrinomass> Kamion: Well, I have no RAID controller, nor am I doing software RAID but all the RAID stuff started here by default.
[09:38] <zul> janimo: it might be wise not to run openoffice on that machine..
[09:38] <janimo> zul, irt was just curiosity/xubuntu test install :)
[09:38] <zul> hehe
[09:38] <neutrinomass> thom: You may be right about my numbers. I've just installed initng and will try taking some numbers for ubuntu ....
[09:38] <jdub> neutrinomass: it really doesn't matter - the raid script just starts mdadm, which goes into swap (we used to not start it at all if it wasn't required - i wonder why that has changed)
[09:39] <janimo> I have no other reasons for using oo even on larger machines :)
[09:39] <j^> ogra i also figured that out at some point, but if we apply that thinking to ubuntu we could also let people configure the kernel and compile it by default
[09:39] <Kamion> neutrinomass: it should be possible to make it take up as-close-as-possible to zero time if RAID isn't configured, rather than your first resort being to make things work less well for even a minority of users
[09:39] <Kamion> that should never be the first resort :)
[09:39] <janimo> neutrinomass: I also think your numbers are wrong. I am inclined to say 19:2000
[09:39] <ogra> j^, we let them, nobody will stop them ;)
[09:39] <j^> ogra by default
[09:40] <neutrinomass> Kamion: Yes, you are right about breaking stuff for people. It should be handled by the installer though (I'll maybe file a bug for dapper+1). If you've got RAID, use it, else don't start anything.
[09:41] <Kamion> neutrinomass: but if we have to disable it by default, the installer would have to be able to enable it by default again in the event that you configure RAID in the installer (however, that does make it more difficult to install without RAID and then set up RAID later, which is not all that uncommon and shouldn't be intentionally made more difficult)
[09:41] <jdub> neutrinomass: it's so close to that right now it doesn't matter
[09:41] <Kamion> neutrinomass: what I'm saying is that "don't start anything [that takes meaningful time] " doesn't have to mean "don't run the init script"
[09:41] <jdub> neutrinomass: mdadm is tiny, and will go into swap if it must
[09:42] <jdub> Kamion: was the md check taken out due to bugs, or...?
[09:42] <Kamion> if it's taking lots of time while RAID isn't configured, then that's the bug
[09:42] <Kamion> jdub: no idea, I'm afraid
[09:42] <neutrinomass> jdub: You're probably right, I don't have numbers for mdadm. I'm on a slow machine though, so our perception of time may be different ...
[09:42] <jdub> maybe it was just lost in synch :)
[09:42] <Kamion> check the changelog I guess
[09:44] <jdub> i think it was lost in the 1.9.0 sync
[09:44] <j^> i have a lib installed in /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib, lets call it liboil; now im linking an app that links a lib that links liboil, if i remove the copy from /usr/lib it works without specificly linking, but if the lib is in /usr/lib, gcc prefers /usr/lib over /usr/local/lib and fails - as oposed to ldd, which shows the one in /usr/local/lib
[09:44] <j^> where can i file a bug?
[09:45] <ogra> the bugtracker would be a first guess from my side ...
[09:45] <ogra> :)
[09:45] <j^> ogra yes, but which package, gcc, ld, ldd
[09:46] <j^> or Keybuk for the pach to libtool to remove specific linking 
[09:46] <ogra> i'd try libc6 which holds ldconfig
[09:51] <janimo> are new CD builds planned for u/kubuntu?
[09:55] <Kamion> Ubuntu install is done as far as I know; Kubuntu install is in progress; live builds are waiting for espresso binaries to arrive
[09:55] <Kamion> I have a matrix of necessary builds that I'm working through
[09:55] <janimo> so all lives will get rebuilt?
[09:56] <fabbione> Kamion: sorry.. did you also rebuild -server with the new baseinstaller?
[09:56] <ogra> edubuntu i386 install seems good, i386/amd64 live as well
[09:56] <Kamion> fabbione: no, it's in the queue
[09:56] <Kamion> janimo: yes
[09:56] <fabbione> Kamion: ok thanks
[09:57] <Kamion> fabbione: and needs to wait for base-installer binaries
[09:57] <fabbione> Kamion: i tought you did publish them already..
[09:57] <Kamion> fabbione: that was source
[09:57] <fabbione> oh cranky
[09:57] <fabbione> thanks
[09:59] <Kamion> ogra: I don't *believe* Edubuntu install needs a rebuild (there's been a newer partman-auto since, but that's about it), but shout if it does
[09:59] <Kamion> ogra: Edubuntu live needs to be rebuilt though
[09:59] <ogra> Kamion, i only tested i386 install so far, its not finished yet but looks very good
[10:00] <ogra> and live wouldnt need it from a functional POv, only for consistency with ubuntu/kubuntu
[10:00] <neutrinomass> Ok. The changes were not as dramatic as they were on gentoo: 37s vs 47s
[10:01] <Kamion> ogra: no, it does need it, 0.99.57 has an important partitioning fix
[10:01] <ogra> ah, k
[10:02] <ogra> worked fine here, but then i install on production machines, so i dont let it autoresize
[10:02] <Kamion> also the locales speedup
[10:02] <ogra> ah, yeah, that one i noticed
[10:02] <ogra> (the slowness)
[10:21] <mvo> Kamion: is bug #39062 already fixed in the current live-cd? it looks like I still get this issue here
[10:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39062 in espresso "espresso autopartition fails after resize option" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39062
[10:24] <janimo> Kamion, can you queue a xubuntu install build for early tomorrow or later today?
[10:24] <janimo> after latest xfce4-utils is in the archive
[10:25] <janimo> LP says it's been built for a while
[10:31] <janimo> ok it's in the archive now, so anytime is ok. thanks
[10:32] <ogra> GAR GAR GAR !!!!
[10:32] <ogra> the firefox homepage just overwrites about edubuntu !!!
[10:32] <ogra> what a crap
[10:33] <ogra> damned
[10:33] <ajmitch> ogra?
[10:34] <ogra> the edubuntu FF page (which is our most important doc in dapper, since it links to all the postinst docs) gets overwritten by some strange ubuntu doc
[10:34] <ajmitch> nasty
[10:34] <ogra> yep
[10:34] <ogra> who decided that, where is specced how i can fix it ...
[10:36] <ogra> additionally that ubuntu doc has no css at all ... looks very bad
[10:39] <Kamion> mvo: no, current ubuntu/live predates that fix
[10:39] <Kamion> janimo: all CD builds are on my list
[10:39] <janimo> ok
[10:40] <mvo> so we get a new live-build before beta? a new install-cd build as well?
[10:40] <janimo> ogra, is that not the usual startpage alternative stuff? did something changed recently?
[10:40] <Kamion> mvo: I don't think ubuntu/install needs to be rebuilt, but all live CDs will be
[10:41] <ogra> seems it did change recently
[10:41] <janimo> ah, but you have both ubuntu and edubuntu providing alternatives in the same install right?
[10:41] <ogra> and after the desaster in breezy i was promised by at least 3 ppl that i would get notified if anything with that page might happen that could affect edubuntu
[10:42] <ogra> but apparently nobody sent a mail to edubuntu-devel or me ....
[10:42] <ogra> does anybody know a way how to get rid of that ? 
[10:43] <Burgwork> ogra, talk to dholbach or mdke_ as they maintain the ubuntu-docs package, which contains the about page
[10:43] <ogra> hrm
[10:43] <dholbach> better mdke_
[10:43] <ogra> isnt there a wikipage or something for xubuntu and edubuntu how to be able to keep their startpages ? 
[10:44] <Kamion> ogra: the edubuntu alternatives trick probably doesn't mesh well with i18n
[10:44] <ogra> for edubuntu that doc is really important
[10:44] <Kamion> ogra: iwj sent a mail about the i18n work, I believe
[10:44] <ogra> hrm
[10:44] <Kamion> maybe not to edubuntu-devel though
[10:45] <mvo> hm, did the oem install change from breezy to dapper? or do I just not remember how to use it :)
[10:45] <Kamion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation
[10:45] <janimo> ogra, indeed for xubuntu is broken but only if using non-default locale, andonly because we have no translations yet
[10:45] <mvo> (on first-boot that is)
[10:45] <Kamion> mvo: it's changed, may be broken ...
[10:45] <Kamion> mvo: you need to run oem-config-prepare before it'll activate
[10:45] <Kamion> (that's changed from breezy)
[10:45] <Kamion> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation
[10:45] <Kamion> er, I said that :)
[10:45] <ogra> yes :)
[10:46] <mvo> Kamion: thanks, testing now
[10:46] <janimo> good night all
[10:46] <ogra> hmm, so there is no way to disable i18n :/
[10:47] <Kamion> ogra: better to get those pages translated; I'd talk to iwj about the details
[10:47] <Kamion> (when he's around)
[10:47] <ogra> i see how it works
[10:48] <ogra> but what do i do with locales where its not translated ? they will automatically see the ubuntu page and wont find the post install notes (i.e. essential for ltsp)
[10:48] <ogra> thats not a good spec if i cant disable it ...
[10:50] <ogra> actually the only mail to devel regarding the startup page seems to be from apr. 11th
[10:50] <Kamion> talk to iwj, or send a mail, or something
[10:51] <ogra> will do ...
[10:51] <mvo> Kamion: oem mode works :) changing the language seems to restart the oem-config application (and takes a bit) but I guess this is normal
[10:51] <ogra> Kamion, apart from that, edubuntu i386 is gold for both install and live
[10:52] <ogra> (apart from the pondering partman change indeed)
[10:52] <Kamion> mvo: it's a bug, but I skipped dealing with it pre-beta because there's an obvious workaround
[10:52] <Kamion> mvo: thanks for the test
[10:57] <Riddell> Kamion: can you rebuild the kubuntu live fs?  unless there's something else to be waited on
[10:57] <Kamion> Riddell: it's in my queue
[10:57] <Riddell> great
[10:57] <Kamion> ok, let's forestall the rest of them :)
[10:58] <Kamion> the queue consists of ubuntu/live (fs building), ubuntu/live/ports, ubuntu/dvd, kubuntu/live, kubuntu/live/ports, kubuntu/dvd, edubuntu/live, edubuntu/dvd, xubuntu/install (building), xubuntu/live, livecd-base
[11:00] <Riddell> Kamion: the OEM mode needs removed from the kubuntu CDs at some point, is that your department?
[11:00] <Kamion> Riddell: due to lack of KDE frontend, you mean?
[11:00] <Riddell> yes
[11:01] <mdke_> dholbach, hmm?
[11:02] <dholbach> mdke_: ogra and Burgwork were thinking about the aboutubuntu page
[11:02] <mdke_> what's up with it?
[11:03] <ogra> mdke, it breaks derivatives ff pages
[11:03] <mdke> ogra, the localisation?
[11:03] <ogra> yes
[11:03] <ogra> there seems no way to disable it
[11:04] <mdke> ogra, if you remember, we discussed whether it would be better to have a translated Ubuntu page or an ed/kubuntu page in a foreign language, and that the former was preferable
[11:04] <ogra> mdke, that wasnt discussed with me
[11:04] <mdke> I'm fairly sure that I made a point of asking your opinion too
[11:05] <ogra> in any case it breaks my most important doc and you cant disable it
[11:05] <mdke> that's correct.
[11:06] <ogra> (even if you'd have asked me, which i definately dont remember, i'd never have agreed to such a plan)
[11:06] <mdke> so what are we going to do about it?
[11:06] <ogra> and i think xubuntu isnt happy either
[11:06] <mdke> xubuntu prefers english for people who don't speak english over a translated ubuntu document?
[11:07] <ogra> mdke, no idea
[11:07] <mdke> ok.
[11:07] <mdke> xubuntu prefers english for people who don't speak english over a translated ubuntu document?
[11:07] <mdke> sorry
[11:07] <ogra> but i doubt they have enough translators as edubuntu
[11:07] <mdke> whoops
[11:07] <mdke> well, even if translation was an option for the derivatives, it would still mean doing alternatives on each translation, which is not a realistic option
[11:08] <mdke> maybe Ian can think of a way to disable it for you
[11:08] <ogra> and since the info on that doc is essential in edubuntu, i'd indeed prefer the english version over a "welcome to ubuntu dapper" with completely broken css
[11:09] <ogra> i'll talk to ian, we cant change it for beta anyway and the final doc isnt in edubuntu yet
[11:09] <Kamion> I think some solution that's better than alternatives needs to be found
[11:09] <mdke> ok.
[11:09] <ogra> the only thing that really bothers me is that everybody said that wont happen again and we'll shout ...
[11:09] <ogra> Kamion, yep
[11:09] <mdke> Kamion, if you can think of anything, you'd be my number 1 fan. I'd be very unhappy if we had to bin those translations
[11:10] <mdke> hang on
[11:10] <mdke> I'd be your, naturally
[11:10] <ogra> :)
[11:10] <Kamion> I don't have time myself, but I'm sure Ian can once he realises that it's more of an issue than he originally thought
[11:11] <mdke> infinity might have some ideas too, we discussed it together quite a lot
[11:11] <thom> run an apache and serve the right language with multiviews? 
[11:12] <mdke> heh
[11:12] <ogra> hmm, would be an option for edubuntu as server distro, but what do the others ? :)
[11:13] <ajmitch> ogra: you mean every desktop user shouldn't have apache? :)
[11:13] <Kamion> Riddell: done, although post-beta unless kubuntu/install needs to be rebuilt for some other reason
[11:14] <Riddell> thanks. I've not had any complains about it so I don't think anyone actually tried it so should be fine for beta
[11:14] <thom> ajmitch: well, i might be slightly biased but i think everyone should have apache ;-)
[11:15] <ajmitch> thom: just something else for the users to complain about :)
[11:15] <thom> who could possibly complain about apache
[11:16] <ogra> caudium fetishists ?
[11:17] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[11:17] <pitti> hello again
[11:18] <pitti> how does it look?
[11:18] <mdke> ogra, shall I mail Ian about this?
[11:18] <Kamion> about halfway through the build matrix
[11:18] <ogra> mdke, that'd be nice, but i'd do it as well after beta
[11:19] <mdke> ogra, np, I don't have to release any operating systems this evening
[11:19] <ogra> me neither :) 
[11:19] <ogra> tomorrow is the day
[11:19] <mdke> oh, well I'm free tomorrow too
[11:19] <mdke> lucky
[11:19] <ogra> and i only have to watch progressbars finishing the copying ...
[11:20] <ogra> pitti, i had drive icons on my desktop on a recent install ...
[11:21] <ogra> PQSERVICE seemed very strange 
[11:22] <pitti> ogra: with espresso?
[11:22] <ogra> yep
[11:22] <ogra> o have installed over it already, but i can try to reproduce if you need info 
[11:22] <ogra> s/o/i
[11:23] <pitti> ogra: espresso sets up spare partitions automatically, much like d-i, but you can't configure them
[11:23] <ogra> then it does that randomly
[11:23] <pitti> ogra: do you mean bug 40114?
[11:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40114 in espresso "does not offer /media mount point setup" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40114
[11:23] <ogra> i have 4 partitions on that disk
[11:23] <ogra> it showed only one on the dektop
[11:24] <ogra> and the PQSERVICE device, whatever that is
[11:24] <ogra> pitti, seems to be related but not the same
[11:26] <kmon> ogra: The PQSERVICE device is a hidden fat partition used in many laptops for recovering the pc to defaults, AFAIK
[11:27] <ogra> ah, i did know about that partition, but not that its named like that... funny that you dont see it from fdisk
[11:27] <Kamion> yeah, sounds like the same bug according to that
[11:27] <Kamion> I'll look at it after beta
[11:30] <kmon> ogra: I have an acer laptop with that partition. I think other manufactures use the same recovering software, with the same partition naming scheme... 
[11:30] <Kamion> mjg59 filed an os-prober patch to let us recognise those partitions, which will help too
[11:30] <ogra> yes, thats also an acer
[11:30] <whiprush> jdub: we need an eft topic for the fridge.
[11:31] <mjg59> I don't think I had one for the Acer ones
[11:31] <kmon> ogra: then maybe it's only acer.... dunno
[11:31] <mjg59> Kamion: One issue is that several of them need to be "unhidden" before booting
[11:31] <mjg59> grub can do that, but os-prober doesn't provide that information
[11:32] <Kamion> we can add new fields if we need to, or add another program like linux-boot-prober to help
[11:32] <ajmitch> kmon: seems likely (I also have one)
[11:32] <mdke_> ogra, who else shall I cc: this mail to? the more people who might think of a solution to the alternatives problem, the better, i guess
[11:32] <pitti> Kamion: just for planning, will you spin new live images still tonight, or tomorrow morning?
[11:32] <Kamion> pitti: tonight
[11:32] <pitti> or not at all?
[11:33] <ogra> mdke_, janimo in any case
[11:33] <kmon> ajmitch: do you own an acer laptop?
[11:33] <Kamion> ubuntu/live is building at the moment; the others will follow
[11:33] <ajmitch> kmon: yes
[11:33] <Kamion> they take an hour or so each, unfortunately, due to ports arches
[11:33] <pitti> Kamion: ok, then it might be worth staying awake for a bit to test them
[11:33] <kmon> ajmitch: google reports many acer users... so maybe it's only on acer laptops
[11:33] <mdke_> ogra, email address? janimo shows nothing in launchpad
[11:34] <Kamion> pitti: ubuntu/live won't be much longer, I hope
[11:34] <pitti> cool
[11:34] <Kamion> mdke_: jani in launchpad
[11:34] <mdke_> Kamion, merci
[11:34] <ogra> ggrrrr
[11:34] <ogra> now evo crashes constantly
[11:35] <dholbach> ogra: what are you trying to do?
[11:35] <ogra> dholbach, i wanted to look up janimos address 
[11:36] <ogra> now evo starts and crashes instantly
[11:36] <dholbach> ogra: it might help to get a backtrace with evolution-dbg and evolution-data-server-dbg installed
[11:37] <ogra> dholbach, installing ...
[11:37] <ogra> but it started out of the blue 
[11:37] <ogra> very weird
[11:38] <mdke_> ogra, mailed
[11:38] <ogra> thanks
[11:38] <dholbach> CAMEL_DEBUG=all evolution   might be usefull to investigate further as well
[11:38] <ogra> (cant read it though ...)
[11:38] <ogra> dholbach, will do
[11:38] <mdke_> haha, np
[11:39] <dholbach> ogra: super.
[11:39] <dholbach> i'll carry my dog outside and then crash into bed, I'm terribly tired.
[11:39] <mdke_> nighty nighty
[11:39] <ogra> hey, she has legs ...
[11:39] <ogra> let her walk on her own ;)
[11:40] <dholbach> a broken claw... and only down the 4 stairs :)
[11:40] <ogra> oh
[11:40] <ogra> damned
[11:40] <ogra> you didnt tell 
[11:40] <dholbach> not to worry - she'll be fine on the weekend :)
[11:40] <dholbach> i was at the vet yesterday
[11:40] <ogra> yup, i saw that
[11:41] <dholbach> But I'll tell her your regards. :-)
[11:41] <ogra> wanted to ask, but forgot about it
[11:41] <ogra> great
[11:41] <ogra> and greetings from fred
[11:41] <dholbach> I will do that. :-)
[11:43] <Kamion> Riddell: can't remember if I mentioned, but there are updated kubuntu/install images; kubuntu/live fs images are building at the moment
[11:43] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks
[11:46] <seb128> Kamion: I've a bug with espresso, I picked the "make space on hdan and install" partitionner option, it hit a "Taille trop faible" (Size too small) error dialog. After than picking any option (like manual partitioning) and clicking on next was doing the same, previous works but next is blocked on all screens back with that message
[11:47] <Kamion> ubuntu/live images updated
[11:47] <seb128> Kamion: not sure if that's clear ... anything useful I can get it from it? is that known?
[11:47] <Kamion> seb128: known, fixed in the updated images that literally *just* finished building
[11:47] <seb128> (before I close and try a new install again)
[11:47] <seb128> cool
[11:47] <Kamion> if you apt-get update; apt-get install espresso espresso-frontend-gtk espresso-ubuntu-{doc,artwork} on the CD you've got, that should do too
[11:47] <seb128> ah, nice
[11:48] <Riddell> should I be worried about the uninstallable openoffice.org2 packages?  I know they're only to being in openoffice.org packages
[11:48] <Kamion> seb128: bug 39062
[11:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39062 in espresso "espresso autopartition fails after resize option" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39062
[11:48] <Kamion> Riddell: it's an lp problem, it isn't cleaning up arch: any .debs that have been superseded by arch: all
[11:49] <ogra> dholbach, seb128, bug 40236 for you
[11:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40236 in evolution "evolution crashes out of the blue and stays in a crasher loop" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40236
[11:50] <dholbach> ogra: can you add that as a comment?
[11:50] <ogra> what ? 
[11:50] <dholbach> ogra: the backtrace
[11:50] <ogra> the backtrace ? 
[11:50] <ogra> ugh
[11:50] <dholbach> click on the file and you see why
[11:50] <ogra> ok
[11:50] <ogra> yep, it will just produce a huge comment
[11:50] <dholbach> and I meant to run      CAMEL_DEBUG=all evolution   and pipe it into a logfile :-)
[11:51] <dholbach> that's fine
[11:51] <dholbach> that backtrace looks small-ish :)
[11:51] <ogra> and i doubt the readbilkity is better in the three column view, i'll upload it to rookery
[11:51] <seb128> partman-basicfilesystems
[11:51] <seb128> ups
[11:51] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=338451
[11:51] <Kamion> Riddell: (but shouldn't be a real problem anyway)
[11:51] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 338451 in Shell "evolution startup and crash" [Critical,New]  
[11:51] <dholbach> wow, seb128!
[11:51] <seb128> same bt
[11:51] <Riddell> Kamion: yeah, I'll just blame launchpad then :)
[11:52] <seb128> grumpf
[11:52] <ogra> sounds similar as well
[11:52] <seb128> apt-get install on the liveCD complains that /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process while trying to update espresso
[11:53] <Kamion> seb128: do you still have espresso running?
[11:53] <Kamion> or some leftover processes maybe
[11:53] <dholbach> ogra: I subscribed to the upstream bug.
[11:53] <Kamion> partman doesn't always die properly, annoyingly
[11:53] <dholbach> ogra: so I'll let you know
[11:54] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/evo.bt
[11:54] <seb128> Kamion: yeah, seems so
[11:54] <Kamion> or indeed espresso subprocesses in general - they mostly get cleaned up, but not always if the parent crashes
[11:54] <Kamion> seb128: subprocesses?
[11:54] <ogra> i'll add it to the bug if you still need it
[11:54] <dholbach> ogra: ok, thanks
[11:54] <dholbach> seb128: thanks
[11:55] <ogra> yes, thanks seb128 :)
[11:55] <seb128> Kamion: espresso gtkui, debconf-communcate -fnoninteractive espresso etc ... I'm cleaning :)
[11:56] <seb128> k, upgrade done
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <Kamion> seb128: gtkui suggests that the frontend window was still running
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <mdke> Seveas,
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <seb128> Kamion: I might have forced it to go away with the window manager bar since it was looping on the error dialog
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <Seveas> mdke, I have no ops here
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <mdke> Seveas, ah, can you get some freenode love?
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <seb128> Kamion: is that known than the first screen has not "next" working by default? it looks like selected but pressing enter doesn't work
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:58] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:58] <Seveas> <-- heytt (n=people@c-68-32-63-72.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has left #ubuntu-devel
[11:58] <Seveas> --> HedgeMage (i=HedgeMag@freenode/staff/HedgeMage) has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:58] <mdke> HedgeMage, just left, thanks
[11:58] <HedgeMage> hehe
[11:58] <dholbach> I can't imagine that #fazlamesai is so exciting
[11:59] <dholbach> but Burgwork joined there, so maybe he can tell us, what the fuss is all about :)
[11:59] <Kamion> seb128: that button does have has_default set; not quite sure why it's not activating on Enter
[11:59] <Burgwork> nothing exciting
[11:59] <ogra> Burgwork, `
[11:59] <shackan> for the first time I've seen I don't know where the ignore button in xchat is
[11:59] <Burgwork> a language I didn't understand, looks like they support linux users
[11:59] <Burgwork> if fazlamesai.net == #fazlamesai
[12:00] <Burgwork> the /topic there disavows any knowledge of the spammers
[12:00] <ogra> thats turkish
[12:00] <seb128> Kamion: confirmed that the partman bug is fixed
[12:00] <Kamion> seb128: great, thanks
[12:00] <seb128> Kamion: but I don't get why it says the partition has not enough space though
[12:00] <Kamion> good to have confirmation of that, I'd cowboy-tested it only
[12:00] <seb128> it has 14.21GB free
[12:00] <Kamion> seb128: the default slider position is wrong; that's part of the same bug
[12:01] <seb128> slider is on 12
[12:01] <Kamion> you might need to up it to 13, if that was the default you got after going forward once
[12:01] <seb128> (it was not on first try I think, it looked like it changed after hitting the error)
[12:01] <Kamion> I think there's a rounding error
[12:01] <Burgwork> dholbach, you been spying on me again?
[12:01] <Kamion> but I only noticed it today, so haven't fixed it yet
[12:01] <dholbach> Burgwork: sure... I'm your most passionate stalker
[12:01] <ogra> Burgwork, http://www.fazlamesai.net/int/ btw
[12:02] <azeem> people with a .comcast.net IP were spamming #debian in a similar way last night
[12:02] <Burgwork> ogra, mm, just saw that, thanks
[12:02] <dholbach> Burgwork: I checked /who #fazlamesai to see how many people there were etc
[12:02] <seb128> Kamion: 14.21Go free according to manual partitioning screen
[12:02] <Kamion> seb128: how big's the partition?
[12:02] <seb128> 16
[12:02] <seb128> 16.19G