/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/04/24/#ubuntu-doc.txt

trappistplaying with linux is all the real job I need12:06
trappistI couldn't be happier12:06
mdkegood job12:06
mdkeI need a job like that12:07
LaserJockwell, if I got a real job that was computer related I'd be happy, but then that wouldn't really be using my degree12:07
trappistif my career path is any indication you get here thusly: 1) get a tech support job  2) write some silly scripts until you get promoted to a programmer gig  3) convince a small linux shop that you're a linux guy waiting to bust out of his professional win32 shell  4) ???  5) profit!!!12:09
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LaserJockI think I would get stuck at 1)12:11
trappistthere's definitely a danger of that12:11
trappistbut my sister's already well into 2) :)12:11
mdke4) sounds like the key12:11
LaserJockwell, I mean I couldn't get *into* 1)12:11
mdkeme neither12:12
trappistpfft.12:12
trappistanybody.  and I mean anybody.  can get into tech support.  if you can afford to live on the wages.12:12
mdkei need to look into getting a job as a lawyer for an open source company12:12
LaserJockmdke: that would be cool12:12
trappistthat'd be awesome12:12
trappistor go work for rms :)12:12
LaserJockyikes12:13
mdkehmm12:13
mdkethat sounds like hard work12:13
LaserJockI don't think I could handle that much stress12:13
mdkeeven worse than now :D12:13
trappistor become independently wealthy and do all pro bono work for oss12:13
=== Burgwork likes that option
mdkegood plan12:14
trappistI've decided that if a fat pile of cash ever falls into my lap ima set up a foundation to support desktop oss projects12:14
LaserJockI'd like to see more professional software in my field (chemistry) that has good licenses so that I can get universities to use Ubuntu more12:14
mdkeyep12:15
trappistruby would be a great language for chemistry software12:15
LaserJockI'm getting into python now12:15
mdkeI could go on a rampage for converting the legal world to linux, it wouldn't be so hard12:15
trappistI avoid python12:15
LaserJockmdke: there is a big thing in the sciences for non-commercial use only licenses12:16
trappistmdke: you think?  I'd figure a lawyer would be like "no warranty? not even the implied warranty of merchantability or suitability for a particular purpose? NO ONE TO SUE IF IT BREAKS?!"12:16
mdkeheh12:17
mdkethere is _always_ someone to sue12:17
trappistesp. in the us12:17
=== mdke sues trappist
mdkehow dare you12:18
LaserJockI'd just like to see OSS work in the scientific arena, it is sort of odd since science and OSS have similar philosophies12:18
trappistpretty soon smokers will be suing the companies that ship the fertilizer to the tobacco farms12:18
LaserJocktrappist: good idea, I never thought of that ;-)12:18
trappistLaserJock: I don't think they do.  if I want to read a scientific journal I have to pony up $$ to subscribe.12:18
=== mdke gets out a pen and paper
LaserJocktrappist: sort of, but we are all about the open development and sharing of ideas12:19
trappistmdke: http://overlawyered.com/ for more great ideas12:19
mdkethanks12:19
LaserJockit isn't so much of a money issue (although there are plans to change that as well) but the openness12:20
trappistyeah I blame the journal people, not the scientists12:20
LaserJockscientists usually don't care since they usually have access to most journals anyway12:20
LaserJockalthough they should12:20
trappistyeah even students usually have access to journal publications12:21
trappistpaying students12:21
LaserJockeven the public at most universities12:22
trappistI just wanna be able to google for something and not get shut down if the hit happens to be on an abstract of a scientific journal article12:22
trappistis that so wrong?12:22
LaserJockbut universities pay huge amounts of money for the subscriptions (there are several chemistry journals that are ~$1000USD/year)12:23
trappistsuch a tease, being able to read the abstracts12:23
LaserJockheh, yeah. I hate that12:23
LaserJockthat is changing though12:23
LaserJockthere are more and more free journals and somebody figured out that it didn't make sense to have taxpayer funded research be so expensive to accesss12:24
LaserJockwow, to many "s"s12:24
trappistthat is a helluva good point12:25
trappistresearch funded by me should by god be available to me12:25
LaserJockyeah, so  now NIH is going to a system where publishers get 6 months and then it goes public12:25
LaserJockI think it is a reasonable idea12:26
trappistthat's a step in the right direction12:26
trappistwell my day's over... talk to you fellas later12:26
=== trappist &
LaserJockthe other idea was making authors pay for the publication (they do some now anyway)12:26
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mdkenight night12:38
mdkeneed my beauty sleep for some hard core lawyering12:39
mdkeespecially with the new ideas that trappist has given me12:39
crimsunI hate the idea of premium journals period12:40
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ompaulcrimsun, the CODATA people are wondering why give away an article to be reviewed and then have to pay a fortune to read the research you generated 01:41
ompaulcrimsun, methinks the publishing industry needs to rethink its model01:41
crimsunit's utter crap01:41
ompaulso the question is there room for a "log onto a peer review" server and communitise it with a small fee for the unis that keep these servers up - present pdfs or some such01:43
ompauljust seems kinda logical01:43
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robotgeekwho has ops in here?02:23
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LaserJockhmm, I don't know that anybody does, perhaps Seveas knows02:29
robotgeek_frank's client is flooding, i guess02:33
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LaserJockrobotgeek: ask Burgundavia 02:40
Burgundaviarobotgeek: hmm?02:40
Burgundaviaok, who is NaamanCambell again?02:41
LaserJockbustacap I think02:42
Burgundaviahmm02:42
Burgundaviathought? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkDevices?action=diff&rev2=12&rev1=1102:42
Burgundaviathoughts, even02:43
LaserJocklooks good to me02:48
Burgundaviahmm02:48
Burgundaviathat would mean a great deal fo little notes02:48
LaserJockyeah02:49
Burgundavianot my idea of great02:49
LaserJockand people should be reading WikiGuide anyway, right? ;-)02:51
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Burgundaviaha03:01
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Unfrgivenalrighty all, ive gotta go... its time for ultimate frisbee!03:45
Unfrgivenargh wrong window... sorry :P03:46
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robotgeekmdke: ping, another error 06:13
robotgeekunrar-nonfree is replaced by unrar in dapper06:13
Madpilotlicense change, or has the free one improved?06:13
robotgeekno, the non-free one is called unrar06:13
robotgeekhttp://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/utils/unrar06:14
robotgeekluckily, it won't change translation strings "P06:15
robotgeekit changes one line, sorry06:15
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Kamping_Kaiseri remember there being discusion about the differences in the kde/gnome help viewers, but i dont remember how long ago it was. can anyone give me a rough idea? i'm hoping to look it up as i want to convert some docbook into whatever kde uses06:47
MadpilotKamping_Kaiser, I know the Kubuntu Desktop Guide is in DocBook in our repos, same as all the Ubuntu docs - no idea if it gets converted to anything before being packaged, though06:48
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Kamping_Kaiserok. thanks Madpilot 06:48
Madpilotrobotgeek is our Kubuntu docs guy, though06:50
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Kamping_Kaiser*sp06:51
=== robotgeek looks into kubuntu-docs source
robotgeekjjesse packages it for us :)06:51
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Madpilotheh. we all do small bits, and somehow it mostly gets done - just don't ask any one person to describe the whole process :P06:54
=== robotgeek is taking a look at the rules fine
robotgeekfile06:55
BurgundaviaMadpilot: does that sounder post mean you are actually going to go looking for a job outside the library?07:05
Burgundaviatbh, Ubuntu does not currently appear on my resume, but Userful didn't ask for it07:06
MadpilotBurgundavia, it means the Flying Club might have an opening in a month or so, and I need to update my resume...07:07
Burgundaviavery cool07:07
Burgundaviawhat sort of job?07:08
Madpilotdispatch/front desk07:08
Burgundaviaah, cool07:08
Burgundaviayou might need to move out ther07:08
Madpilotyeah - it'll be an evening shift at first, so no long morning commute - just a long evening one :P07:09
Burgundaviathere are a few web design firms in town looking for people07:12
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Burgundaviasalut highvoltage07:29
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Madpilothi robitaille 07:36
robitailleHi Madpilot 07:37
robitailleso fed up of the library? 07:37
Madpilotgetting that way07:37
highvoltagesalut Burgundavia!07:42
highvoltagehow are things in doc-land?07:42
highvoltagei've been meaning to ask, is ubuntu-doc responsible for xubuntu documentation as well?07:43
Madpilothighvoltage, yes, there's the beginnings of the Xubuntu Desktop Guide in our repos07:44
highvoltagenice.07:45
mdkeKamping_Kaiser, kde uses html08:56
mdkeKamping_Kaiser, we build it using xsltproc and some xsl stylesheets08:56
mdkeif you prefer, you can use meinproc, which uses some kde stylesheets (that is described on the kde docs website)08:57
mdkerobotgeek, dude! did you get that string change in before Riddell uploaded the package?09:06
mdkerobotgeek, I'm uploading the pot manually, just in case. Now, enough string changes already!!09:10
robotgeekmdke: sorry, but i found a mistake09:11
mdkeyeah, i saw09:11
=== robotgeek promises not to look anymore
mdke:)09:13
mdkeit's fine, the fewer errors the better09:13
mdkerobitaille, you have to pay for mepis, mandrive, suse?09:28
mdkei thought those were free09:28
robitailleI think they all have a paid and free version.... but I'm pretty sure they are all in the same boat than Ubuntu.  If free, you don't have mp3 out of the box unless you go download it somewhere09:33
robitaillebut I could be totally wrong...09:34
jaurojuatleast opensuse doesn't include support for mp3 if i remember right09:36
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gobbei think that all those free versions are lack of support for restricted things09:37
robitaillethat's what I thought as well.  But looking at the mepis web site just now, it's not clear that they don't ship without mp3..09:39
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mvocould someone from the doc team please have a look at  https://launchpad.net/bugs/40061 ?12:38
mvoit is a xml problem apparently but my docbook skills are very limited12:38
mdkelooking12:42
mdkemvo, ah, yes I know that error well. Where is the source?12:43
mvomdke: availalbe via bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/update-manager/update-manager--dapper12:44
mdkemvo, I dunno bzr. If you want to fix it, just adjust the link to read /usr/share/gnome/libs/global.ent12:44
mdkeline 7 of the file12:45
mdkeoh shit.12:45
mdkemvo, actually, it's going to be more complicated, that file is provided by ubuntu-docs12:45
mvoso instead of "../../.." etc that is there now?12:46
mvoa absolute path?12:46
mdkeno, no12:46
mdkemvo, best thing is to remove the entity in line 7, and substitute &distro-rev; for 6.06 in line 5612:46
mdkethat way, we avoid gnome-app-install having to depend on ubuntu-docs :D12:46
mdkemvo, clear?12:48
mvohttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/1254512:49
mvolike this?12:49
mdkemvo, remove line 9 of that12:49
mdkeotherwise, that's right12:50
mdkelemme check it works12:50
mvoline 9 too? in addition to the current removal?12:51
mdkemvo, yes, the text in line 9 of that pastebin need to go12:51
mdkeif you do that, it works12:52
mvohttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/1254612:53
mdkemvo, correct. I've tested, it works12:54
mvothanks :)12:54
mdkenp12:56
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jjesseany special permission to upload images for the wiki?04:47
mdkenope04:49
jjesseok, working on getting screenshots for kubuntudapperbeta, is there a short guide on how to do it?04:49
jsgotangcojust upload it on the page your are editing04:50
robotgeekjjesse: do you have kubuntu installed, or is this via vmware?04:50
robotgeekwiki.ubuntu.com/TakingScreenshots04:50
jjesserobotgeek: both :)04:50
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jjessehmmm that doesn't really help me with uploading to the wiki04:51
robotgeekjjesse: More Actions -> Attachements04:53
jjesserobotgeek: thanks :)04:55
mdkeHelpOnActions has some docs, I think04:56
jjessethaanks mdke05:00
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trappistsay, what are the the license problems with fop?  it looks to have an apache license.06:00
robotgeektrappist: it uses java to make pdfs06:02
robotgeeki am not sure if it works for gcj06:02
mdkeno, i don't think it does06:02
mdkeit didn't work for me with multiverse java, I had to use sun's06:03
trappistso the license issue is indirect - you have to install sun java (as far as we can tell) to use it, but it's not encumbered on its own, right?06:03
mdkei think that is probably right, although I didn't check the license06:03
trappisthttp://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/license.html06:04
mdkewhat's the apache licence, version 1.1 like?06:06
trappistI dunno really, but apache 1.x was under it, and that was apparently free enough for the freedom freaks06:08
Kamping_Kaiserdid RMS say it was free? thats the big test ;)06:10
mdketrappist, so, fop is fine then, I guess06:12
trappistother projects like subversion and mod_gzip are under the apache licence, and it's OSI-approved06:12
trappistmdke: far as I can tell06:12
trappistjust not (necessarily) useful without other software that may offend rms06:12
trappistwhich I'm ok with doing, myself06:13
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jjessemgalvin: that image for ubunut rocks, can i get a kubuntu beta one :)07:02
mdketrappist, why do you ask by the way? got a plan for packaging it?07:33
trappistmaybe, now that you mention it, but we're facing the prospect here at work of converting xml/docbook to pdf and I was looking at options, and while I was staring at fop I noticed the license07:36
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LaserJockmorning doc people!07:49
highvoltagemorning laserperson!07:50
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mgalvinjjesse: its the default GNOME ubuntu splash screen, i didn't make it...07:52
mgalvinsudo apt-get install ubuntu-artwork07:52
mgalvinits in07:52
mgalvin/usr/share/pixmaps/splash/ubuntu-splash.png07:52
jjessemgalvin: oh, wonder if there is a kubuntu one?07:58
mgalvindunno :-/08:00
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LaserJocka kubuntu splash for GNOME?08:08
highvoltagethat's weird08:12
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