[12:06] <trappist> playing with linux is all the real job I need
[12:06] <trappist> I couldn't be happier
[12:06] <mdke> good job
[12:07] <mdke> I need a job like that
[12:07] <LaserJock> well, if I got a real job that was computer related I'd be happy, but then that wouldn't really be using my degree
[12:09] <trappist> if my career path is any indication you get here thusly: 1) get a tech support job  2) write some silly scripts until you get promoted to a programmer gig  3) convince a small linux shop that you're a linux guy waiting to bust out of his professional win32 shell  4) ???  5) profit!!!
[12:11] <LaserJock> I think I would get stuck at 1)
[12:11] <trappist> there's definitely a danger of that
[12:11] <trappist> but my sister's already well into 2) :)
[12:11] <mdke> 4) sounds like the key
[12:11] <LaserJock> well, I mean I couldn't get *into* 1)
[12:12] <mdke> me neither
[12:12] <trappist> pfft.
[12:12] <trappist> anybody.  and I mean anybody.  can get into tech support.  if you can afford to live on the wages.
[12:12] <mdke> i need to look into getting a job as a lawyer for an open source company
[12:12] <LaserJock> mdke: that would be cool
[12:12] <trappist> that'd be awesome
[12:12] <trappist> or go work for rms :)
[12:13] <LaserJock> yikes
[12:13] <mdke> hmm
[12:13] <mdke> that sounds like hard work
[12:13] <LaserJock> I don't think I could handle that much stress
[12:13] <mdke> even worse than now :D
[12:13] <trappist> or become independently wealthy and do all pro bono work for oss
[12:14] <mdke> good plan
[12:14] <trappist> I've decided that if a fat pile of cash ever falls into my lap ima set up a foundation to support desktop oss projects
[12:14] <LaserJock> I'd like to see more professional software in my field (chemistry) that has good licenses so that I can get universities to use Ubuntu more
[12:15] <mdke> yep
[12:15] <trappist> ruby would be a great language for chemistry software
[12:15] <LaserJock> I'm getting into python now
[12:15] <mdke> I could go on a rampage for converting the legal world to linux, it wouldn't be so hard
[12:15] <trappist> I avoid python
[12:16] <LaserJock> mdke: there is a big thing in the sciences for non-commercial use only licenses
[12:16] <trappist> mdke: you think?  I'd figure a lawyer would be like "no warranty? not even the implied warranty of merchantability or suitability for a particular purpose? NO ONE TO SUE IF IT BREAKS?!"
[12:17] <mdke> heh
[12:17] <mdke> there is _always_ someone to sue
[12:17] <trappist> esp. in the us
[12:18] <mdke> how dare you
[12:18] <LaserJock> I'd just like to see OSS work in the scientific arena, it is sort of odd since science and OSS have similar philosophies
[12:18] <trappist> pretty soon smokers will be suing the companies that ship the fertilizer to the tobacco farms
[12:18] <LaserJock> trappist: good idea, I never thought of that ;-)
[12:18] <trappist> LaserJock: I don't think they do.  if I want to read a scientific journal I have to pony up $$ to subscribe.
[12:19] <LaserJock> trappist: sort of, but we are all about the open development and sharing of ideas
[12:19] <trappist> mdke: http://overlawyered.com/ for more great ideas
[12:19] <mdke> thanks
[12:20] <LaserJock> it isn't so much of a money issue (although there are plans to change that as well) but the openness
[12:20] <trappist> yeah I blame the journal people, not the scientists
[12:20] <LaserJock> scientists usually don't care since they usually have access to most journals anyway
[12:20] <LaserJock> although they should
[12:21] <trappist> yeah even students usually have access to journal publications
[12:21] <trappist> paying students
[12:22] <LaserJock> even the public at most universities
[12:22] <trappist> I just wanna be able to google for something and not get shut down if the hit happens to be on an abstract of a scientific journal article
[12:22] <trappist> is that so wrong?
[12:23] <LaserJock> but universities pay huge amounts of money for the subscriptions (there are several chemistry journals that are ~$1000USD/year)
[12:23] <trappist> such a tease, being able to read the abstracts
[12:23] <LaserJock> heh, yeah. I hate that
[12:23] <LaserJock> that is changing though
[12:24] <LaserJock> there are more and more free journals and somebody figured out that it didn't make sense to have taxpayer funded research be so expensive to accesss
[12:24] <LaserJock> wow, to many "s"s
[12:25] <trappist> that is a helluva good point
[12:25] <trappist> research funded by me should by god be available to me
[12:25] <LaserJock> yeah, so  now NIH is going to a system where publishers get 6 months and then it goes public
[12:26] <LaserJock> I think it is a reasonable idea
[12:26] <trappist> that's a step in the right direction
[12:26] <trappist> well my day's over... talk to you fellas later
[12:26] <LaserJock> the other idea was making authors pay for the publication (they do some now anyway)
[12:38] <mdke> night night
[12:39] <mdke> need my beauty sleep for some hard core lawyering
[12:39] <mdke> especially with the new ideas that trappist has given me
[12:40] <crimsun> I hate the idea of premium journals period
[01:41] <ompaul> crimsun, the CODATA people are wondering why give away an article to be reviewed and then have to pay a fortune to read the research you generated 
[01:41] <ompaul> crimsun, methinks the publishing industry needs to rethink its model
[01:41] <crimsun> it's utter crap
[01:43] <ompaul> so the question is there room for a "log onto a peer review" server and communitise it with a small fee for the unis that keep these servers up - present pdfs or some such
[01:43] <ompaul> just seems kinda logical
[02:23] <robotgeek> who has ops in here?
[02:29] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't know that anybody does, perhaps Seveas knows
[02:33] <robotgeek> _frank's client is flooding, i guess
[02:40] <LaserJock> robotgeek: ask Burgundavia 
[02:40] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: hmm?
[02:41] <Burgundavia> ok, who is NaamanCambell again?
[02:42] <LaserJock> bustacap I think
[02:42] <Burgundavia> hmm
[02:42] <Burgundavia> thought? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkDevices?action=diff&rev2=12&rev1=11
[02:43] <Burgundavia> thoughts, even
[02:48] <LaserJock> looks good to me
[02:48] <Burgundavia> hmm
[02:48] <Burgundavia> that would mean a great deal fo little notes
[02:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:49] <Burgundavia> not my idea of great
[02:51] <LaserJock> and people should be reading WikiGuide anyway, right? ;-)
[03:01] <Burgundavia> ha
[03:45] <Unfrgiven> alrighty all, ive gotta go... its time for ultimate frisbee!
[03:46] <Unfrgiven> argh wrong window... sorry :P
[06:13] <robotgeek> mdke: ping, another error 
[06:13] <robotgeek> unrar-nonfree is replaced by unrar in dapper
[06:13] <Madpilot> license change, or has the free one improved?
[06:13] <robotgeek> no, the non-free one is called unrar
[06:14] <robotgeek> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/utils/unrar
[06:15] <robotgeek> luckily, it won't change translation strings "P
[06:15] <robotgeek> it changes one line, sorry
[06:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> i remember there being discusion about the differences in the kde/gnome help viewers, but i dont remember how long ago it was. can anyone give me a rough idea? i'm hoping to look it up as i want to convert some docbook into whatever kde uses
[06:48] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser, I know the Kubuntu Desktop Guide is in DocBook in our repos, same as all the Ubuntu docs - no idea if it gets converted to anything before being packaged, though
[06:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. thanks Madpilot 
[06:50] <Madpilot> robotgeek is our Kubuntu docs guy, though
[06:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> *sp
[06:51] <robotgeek> jjesse packages it for us :)
[06:54] <Madpilot> heh. we all do small bits, and somehow it mostly gets done - just don't ask any one person to describe the whole process :P
[06:55] <robotgeek> file
[07:05] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: does that sounder post mean you are actually going to go looking for a job outside the library?
[07:06] <Burgundavia> tbh, Ubuntu does not currently appear on my resume, but Userful didn't ask for it
[07:07] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, it means the Flying Club might have an opening in a month or so, and I need to update my resume...
[07:07] <Burgundavia> very cool
[07:08] <Burgundavia> what sort of job?
[07:08] <Madpilot> dispatch/front desk
[07:08] <Burgundavia> ah, cool
[07:08] <Burgundavia> you might need to move out ther
[07:09] <Madpilot> yeah - it'll be an evening shift at first, so no long morning commute - just a long evening one :P
[07:12] <Burgundavia> there are a few web design firms in town looking for people
[07:29] <Burgundavia> salut highvoltage
[07:36] <Madpilot> hi robitaille 
[07:37] <robitaille> Hi Madpilot 
[07:37] <robitaille> so fed up of the library? 
[07:37] <Madpilot> getting that way
[07:42] <highvoltage> salut Burgundavia!
[07:42] <highvoltage> how are things in doc-land?
[07:43] <highvoltage> i've been meaning to ask, is ubuntu-doc responsible for xubuntu documentation as well?
[07:44] <Madpilot> highvoltage, yes, there's the beginnings of the Xubuntu Desktop Guide in our repos
[07:45] <highvoltage> nice.
[08:56] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, kde uses html
[08:56] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, we build it using xsltproc and some xsl stylesheets
[08:57] <mdke> if you prefer, you can use meinproc, which uses some kde stylesheets (that is described on the kde docs website)
[09:06] <mdke> robotgeek, dude! did you get that string change in before Riddell uploaded the package?
[09:10] <mdke> robotgeek, I'm uploading the pot manually, just in case. Now, enough string changes already!!
[09:11] <robotgeek> mdke: sorry, but i found a mistake
[09:11] <mdke> yeah, i saw
[09:13] <mdke> :)
[09:13] <mdke> it's fine, the fewer errors the better
[09:28] <mdke> robitaille, you have to pay for mepis, mandrive, suse?
[09:28] <mdke> i thought those were free
[09:33] <robitaille> I think they all have a paid and free version.... but I'm pretty sure they are all in the same boat than Ubuntu.  If free, you don't have mp3 out of the box unless you go download it somewhere
[09:34] <robitaille> but I could be totally wrong...
[09:36] <jauroju> atleast opensuse doesn't include support for mp3 if i remember right
[09:37] <gobbe> i think that all those free versions are lack of support for restricted things
[09:39] <robitaille> that's what I thought as well.  But looking at the mepis web site just now, it's not clear that they don't ship without mp3..
[12:38] <mvo> could someone from the doc team please have a look at  https://launchpad.net/bugs/40061 ?
[12:38] <mvo> it is a xml problem apparently but my docbook skills are very limited
[12:42] <mdke> looking
[12:43] <mdke> mvo, ah, yes I know that error well. Where is the source?
[12:44] <mvo> mdke: availalbe via bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/update-manager/update-manager--dapper
[12:44] <mdke> mvo, I dunno bzr. If you want to fix it, just adjust the link to read /usr/share/gnome/libs/global.ent
[12:45] <mdke> line 7 of the file
[12:45] <mdke> oh shit.
[12:45] <mdke> mvo, actually, it's going to be more complicated, that file is provided by ubuntu-docs
[12:46] <mvo> so instead of "../../.." etc that is there now?
[12:46] <mvo> a absolute path?
[12:46] <mdke> no, no
[12:46] <mdke> mvo, best thing is to remove the entity in line 7, and substitute &distro-rev; for 6.06 in line 56
[12:46] <mdke> that way, we avoid gnome-app-install having to depend on ubuntu-docs :D
[12:48] <mdke> mvo, clear?
[12:49] <mvo> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12545
[12:49] <mvo> like this?
[12:49] <mdke> mvo, remove line 9 of that
[12:50] <mdke> otherwise, that's right
[12:50] <mdke> lemme check it works
[12:51] <mvo> line 9 too? in addition to the current removal?
[12:51] <mdke> mvo, yes, the text in line 9 of that pastebin need to go
[12:52] <mdke> if you do that, it works
[12:53] <mvo> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12546
[12:54] <mdke> mvo, correct. I've tested, it works
[12:54] <mvo> thanks :)
[12:56] <mdke> np
[04:47] <jjesse> any special permission to upload images for the wiki?
[04:49] <mdke> nope
[04:49] <jjesse> ok, working on getting screenshots for kubuntudapperbeta, is there a short guide on how to do it?
[04:50] <jsgotangco> just upload it on the page your are editing
[04:50] <robotgeek> jjesse: do you have kubuntu installed, or is this via vmware?
[04:50] <robotgeek> wiki.ubuntu.com/TakingScreenshots
[04:50] <jjesse> robotgeek: both :)
[04:51] <jjesse> hmmm that doesn't really help me with uploading to the wiki
[04:53] <robotgeek> jjesse: More Actions -> Attachements
[04:55] <jjesse> robotgeek: thanks :)
[04:56] <mdke> HelpOnActions has some docs, I think
[05:00] <jjesse> thaanks mdke
[06:00] <trappist> say, what are the the license problems with fop?  it looks to have an apache license.
[06:02] <robotgeek> trappist: it uses java to make pdfs
[06:02] <robotgeek> i am not sure if it works for gcj
[06:02] <mdke> no, i don't think it does
[06:03] <mdke> it didn't work for me with multiverse java, I had to use sun's
[06:03] <trappist> so the license issue is indirect - you have to install sun java (as far as we can tell) to use it, but it's not encumbered on its own, right?
[06:03] <mdke> i think that is probably right, although I didn't check the license
[06:04] <trappist> http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/license.html
[06:06] <mdke> what's the apache licence, version 1.1 like?
[06:08] <trappist> I dunno really, but apache 1.x was under it, and that was apparently free enough for the freedom freaks
[06:10] <Kamping_Kaiser> did RMS say it was free? thats the big test ;)
[06:12] <mdke> trappist, so, fop is fine then, I guess
[06:12] <trappist> other projects like subversion and mod_gzip are under the apache licence, and it's OSI-approved
[06:12] <trappist> mdke: far as I can tell
[06:12] <trappist> just not (necessarily) useful without other software that may offend rms
[06:13] <trappist> which I'm ok with doing, myself
[07:02] <jjesse> mgalvin: that image for ubunut rocks, can i get a kubuntu beta one :)
[07:33] <mdke> trappist, why do you ask by the way? got a plan for packaging it?
[07:36] <trappist> maybe, now that you mention it, but we're facing the prospect here at work of converting xml/docbook to pdf and I was looking at options, and while I was staring at fop I noticed the license
[07:49] <LaserJock> morning doc people!
[07:50] <highvoltage> morning laserperson!
[07:52] <mgalvin> jjesse: its the default GNOME ubuntu splash screen, i didn't make it...
[07:52] <mgalvin> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-artwork
[07:52] <mgalvin> its in
[07:52] <mgalvin> /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/ubuntu-splash.png
[07:58] <jjesse> mgalvin: oh, wonder if there is a kubuntu one?
[08:00] <mgalvin> dunno :-/
[08:08] <LaserJock> a kubuntu splash for GNOME?
[08:12] <highvoltage> that's weird