[12:02] <Burgwork> dholbach, I love you, but I am more into women ;)
[12:02] <seb128> 1.97G used, 14.21G free
[12:02] <dholbach> pffft :)
[12:02] <Kamion> that's 12.2% used
[12:02] <Kamion> so rounding down produces 12%, which is too small
[12:03] <seb128> ah, that's a %
[12:03] <Kamion> sorry, yeah
[12:03] <seb128> sorry I was think that was 12G
[12:03] <seb128> thinking
[12:03] <Kamion> the resize UI is pretty grotty, I know - hope to be able to improve that before final
[12:03] <Kamion> it's pretty much just a straight frontend onto partman-auto at the moment
[12:04] <Burgwork> Kamion, was there not going to be  "delete these partitions and instlal ubuntu in the blank space" option, or did I miss it?
[12:04] <seb128> k, setting the slider to 76 makes it happy :)
[12:04] <Kamion> Burgwork: it's in the spec, but the spec is not implemented yet
[12:04] <Kamion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/PartitioningTool
[12:04] <robertj> is the sidebar art in espresso yet?
[12:04] <Kamion> robertj: no
[12:04] <Kamion> hasn't been contributed yet
[12:05] <robertj> contributed? I thought that was comissioned
[12:05] <Kamion> either, I'm not up to speed on the details
[12:05] <Kamion> from my point of view it's the same thing, somebody needs to send me it :)
[12:05] <robertj> I still think we need to replace it with you-dont-know-jack commercials
[12:10] <ogra> Kamion, edubuntu amd64 live/install are good as well
[12:15] <Kamion> ogra: live will be rebuilt; thanks for the install test. are you recording these on the wiki somewhere?
[12:15] <ogra> nope
[12:15] <Kamion> I can't keep track of them all myself :)
[12:15] <Kamion> might be a good idea to start
[12:23] <Kamion> DVD builds officially take too damned long
[12:23] <thom> heh
[12:23] <Riddell> so do DVD downloads
[12:24] <ogra> heh
[12:24] <ogra> cant you cat the isos together and rsync that ? 
[12:24] <Kamion> (I'm only bothering because it's something to do while waiting for live filesystems to build)
[12:24] <ogra> probably not
[12:24] <Kamion> ogra: helps a bit, but there's still a lot to download after that
[12:24] <Kamion> the DVDs have supported as well, remember
[12:24] <ogra> yes, main is grown 
[12:25] <Kamion> although fortunately not all of main
[12:27] <ajmitch> even downloading a server iso takes too long for me 
[12:28] <Kamion> elmo: did I ever ask you to archive off flight-3 and flight-4 images from little:~cjwatson/old-images/ to tape?
[12:30] <seb128> hum
[12:30] <seb128> "Hard disk boot sector invalid"
[12:30] <seb128> not glop
[12:30] <seb128> after an installing with autoresize
[12:32] <Kamion> not heard of that before
[12:33] <Kamion> boot into the live CD, try chrooting and reinstalling grub?
[12:33] <lifeless> Kamion: whos the person to ask for UVE's at the moment ?>
[12:33] <seb128> CD booting ...
[12:33] <lifeless> Kamion: paramiko 1.5.4 fixes a criticial bug for bzr 0.8
[12:34] <Kamion> lifeless: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[12:34] <Kamion> instructions there
[12:34] <lifeless> thanks
[12:35] <lifeless> great, got it
[12:37] <seb128> hum
[12:38] <seb128> "sudo cfdisk /dev/hda" writes "FATAL ERROR: Bad logical partition 6: enlarged logical partitions overlap"
[12:38] <mdke> mjg59, gah, screen locking is disabled by default? even when resuming from suspends?
[12:38] <seb128> and "Press any key to exit cfdisk"
[12:38] <seb128> I don't like that
[12:38] <mdke> mjg59, and even when using the lock screen function key? :-(
[12:38] <Kamion> parted might be able to sort it out
[12:39] <seb128> fdisk lists them
[12:39] <Kamion> if cfdisk/fdisk can't
[12:39] <seb128> hda5 4688  4864
[12:39] <seb128> hda6 1087  4567
[12:39] <seb128> ups
[12:39] <seb128> hda6 4087  4567
[12:40] <Kamion> doesn't look particularly overlapping to me
[12:40] <seb128> hda7  4087  4567
[12:40] <Kamion> oh
[12:40] <seb128> grumpf, let me try again
[12:40] <seb128> hda5 4688  4864
[12:40] <seb128> hda6 4594  4687
[12:40] <seb128> hda7 4087 4567
[12:41] <mjg59> mdke: Yes
[12:41] <seb128> Kamion: is that a standard way to fix that?
[12:41] <Kamion> well, those are non-overlapping
[12:41] <Kamion> seb128: I've never heard of this problem before
[12:41] <mjg59> mdke: I'm not massively keen on the ease of discoverability, but it's fairly consistent
[12:41] <seb128> right, they are not, maybe that's just cfdisk on crack
[12:42] <mdke> mjg59, are you happy with that? It seems to me that if I suspend my machine, it should be physically secure
[12:42] <Kamion> your fdisk results don't seem particularly broken to me
[12:42] <Kamion> try parted and see what it says
[12:42] <mdke> mjg59, plus, the function key should do what it says on the tin
[12:42] <mjg59> mdke: If you're concerned about physical security, then you want the screensaver to lock your screen under all circumstances
[12:42] <mdke> mjg59, yes, I do.
[12:42] <mdke> but _especially_ in those cases
[12:43] <mjg59> So in that case, the argument is over the default for that setting?
[12:43] <mdke> sure
[12:43] <seb128> Kamion: looks fine, maybe the bios doesn't like hda7 being bootable (it used to be hda3)
[12:43] <mjg59> Right
[12:43] <mjg59> I think it's reasonable to bring that up
[12:43] <mdke> mjg59, because sometimes the screensaver kicks in while I'm at my computer, I'm happy for it not to be locked. But if I suspend, that's another matter
[12:43] <mjg59> What was the default for xscreensaver?
[12:43] <seb128> Kamion: should primary or extended partitions make a difference for that?
[12:43] <Kamion> seb128: there was that old grub-installer bug with bootable partitions that we never really sorted out
[12:44] <Kamion> seb128: it wasn't the same thing, but I seem to remember it bit your laptop that time too
[12:44] <mdke> mjg59, in breezy, it locks, at least when I suspend/use the function keys. not sure about when the screensaver kicks in normally
[12:44] <seb128> yeah, I thought to it, that's why I look to the boot flag
[12:44] <seb128> but that bug was "no partition is set as bootable" IIRC
[12:44] <Kamion> seb128: yeah, it was
[12:44] <Kamion> seb128: if you set the active partition back to hda3, does it work then?
[12:44] <mdke> mjg59, personally, I think there is a reasonable argument for distinguishing the two situations (screensaver/lockscreen+suspend). Dunno if that's technically possible or not though
[12:44] <seb128> trying
[12:45] <ogra> mjg59, the default was always to not lock
[12:45] <mjg59> mdke: It's technically possible, though not trivially
[12:46] <ogra> but the lock item from the panel always locks ...
[12:46] <mdke> the lock item from the panel works, but my function key doesn't
[12:46] <ogra> probably suspend/resume should do the same
[12:46] <seb128> Kamion: that was it
[12:46] <mjg59> In any case, it's a gnome-power-manager issue rather than an acpi-support one
[12:46] <Kamion> Riddell: new kubuntu/live images up for you
[12:46] <Kamion> seb128: ok, I officially dislike your laptop's BIOS :)
[12:46] <seb128> Kamion: let's call that a bios bug? Or is a primary partition supposed to be used for that?
[12:46] <seb128> Kamion: me too :p
[12:47] <mdke> mjg59, ok, you already reassigned the bug there. Can I reopen it?
[12:47] <mjg59> mdke: Fancy bringing it up on ubuntu-devel?
[12:47] <mdke> mjg59, yes. Anything to do with gpm makes me excited
[12:47] <Kamion> seb128: I can see the argument that it ought to be a primary partition if possible; this is why partman's recipes make / or /boot (as applicable) active and primary
[12:47] <pitti> seb128: in ancient times there was a BIOS limitation that it could only boot from a cylinder < 1024 or sth. like that; could that be it?
[12:47] <mjg59> Getting some impression of how people feel would be helpful
[12:47] <Kamion> pitti: I'm fairly sure this is different
[12:47] <seb128> pitti: could be
[12:47] <Kamion> may be wrong
[12:47] <mdke> mjg59, I'll post now or latest in the morning, thanks
[12:47] <seb128> pitti: <seb128> hda7 4087 4567
[12:47] <seb128> pitti: that was the bootable one
[12:48] <pitti> my laptop happily boots from /dev/hda7 :)
[12:48] <pitti> (which is where I'm installing right now)
[12:48] <seb128> my craptop doesn't :p
[12:48] <Kamion> seb128: we should probably arrange for stuff not to mess with an existing active partition, since all that really matters is that there's *an* active partition, not which one it is
[12:49] <seb128> Kamion: right. Is there a bug about that? Maybe still the "not boot flag set"?
[12:49] <seb128> or should I open one?
[12:49] <Kamion> same bug would do, I think; I don't have the number to hand I'm afraid
[12:50] <seb128> no need of the number, knowing that it is somewhere will do for now ;)
[12:51] <Kamion> bug 14244, I believe
[12:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 14244 in partman-auto "Automatic partitioning reset boot flag in DOS partition table?" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/14244
[12:53] <Burgwork> mjg59, we might want to document what the laptop defaults are somewhere, for better and more consistent testing
[12:53] <jdong> a good number of desktops/laptops using the Intel GMA adapters require the 915resolution hack to go above 640x480....
[12:54] <jdong> what do we plan to do about that?
[12:54] <mdke> mjg59, mailed
[12:54] <Burgwork> mjg59, ie, when the battery icon is displayed and the scroll down the side, etc.
[12:54] <mjg59> Burgwork: Ok
[12:54] <mdke> about that battery icon...
[12:54] <mdke> can we ship with gpm set to 'never' and with the gnome applet battery monitor? It's a million times better
[12:55] <mjg59> mdke: Again, bring it up on the mailing list
[12:55] <mdke> mjg59, great.
[12:55] <mdke> night, me too
[01:02] <Riddell> Kamion: I don't see any more kubuntu live images
[01:07] <pitti> yay, langpack removal in espresso is really fast now
[01:08] <pitti> Kamion: oh, you remove language-support-en, too?
[01:08] <pitti> Kamion: s/you/espresso/ of course
[01:10] <Kamion> Riddell: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/20060419.1/
[01:11] <Kamion> pitti: shouldn't do ...
[01:11] <Kamion> pitti: what's in /var/lib/espresso/apt-installed?
[01:11] <pitti> Kamion: did for me on ppc/live espresso install
[01:11] <pitti> Kamion: oops, sorry, I already booted into the system
[01:11] <Kamion> d'oh
[01:11] <pitti> Kamion: but I can reproduce it again if you need
[01:13] <pitti> oh, crap, the installed espresso system ended up with no language packs installed at all
[01:13] <pitti> which also means that there is no defined locale (but LANG is set to de_DE.UTF-8)
[01:14] <Kamion> le huh?
[01:14] <Kamion> not seen that happen before ...
[01:14] <Kamion> what language/country did you pick?
[01:14] <pitti> Kamion: German/Germany/American keyboard
[01:15] <pitti> strange, that worked fine in my last attempt AFAIR
[01:15] <pitti> Kamion: shall I do the test install again and stay in the live system after espresso?
[01:15] <pitti> s/?/ finished?/
[01:16] <Kamion> localechooser is supposed to set localechooser/supported-locales as you go forward from the language screen, and then the install script picks up that question and decides which language packs to keep from that
[01:16] <Kamion> pitti: if that's not too inconvenient, yes please; also run with ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 set
[01:16] <pitti> Kamion: erm, a second; I did that installation without network, can this be the reason?
[01:16] <Kamion> I think I'll fix the password thing and then make debug mode the default until just before the release candidate
[01:17] <pitti> there is no German langpack on the live CD AFAIR
[01:17] <Kamion> pitti: it's not impossible, although it surprises me
[01:17] <pitti> so, nothing to copy
[01:17] <Kamion> en should be kept, though, regardless
[01:17] <pitti> right, that's another thing (we do it for install, so we should do it for live)
[01:18] <Kamion> we do
[01:18] <Kamion> your case is unusual, AFAIK
[01:18] <pitti> alright, I do the same installation again if you want me to
[01:18] <Kamion> we use the same logic as the installer, although some of it is by necessity reimplemented rather than reused; but the logic is the same
[01:21] <pitti> Kamion: hm, so how do we solve this? would it be practical to call 'locale-gen <locale>' for the selected default locale in espresso?
[01:21] <Kamion> pitti: we already do ...
[01:21] <pitti> Kamion: we can't fix the absence of langpacks in a networkless install, but at least the locale should be valid
[01:21] <pitti> hmm, /me scratches his head them
[01:21] <Kamion> oh, we don't copy the generated locale over, I guess
[01:22] <Kamion> pitti: the German install I did earlier today has language-{pack,support}-{en,de} installed; admittedly it was networked, but I really don't think that should make a difference for en
[01:22] <jcole> are there any plans to update to update dri/drm in ubuntu dapper? it's more than 2 years old
[01:23] <pitti> Kamion: ok, so we have two bugs here: removing l-{pack,support}-en and the missing locale
[01:23] <pitti> live system booted, starting espresso now
[01:23] <Kamion> pitti: right
[01:23] <jcole> err, remove one "to update"
[01:23] <pitti> Kamion: the former doesn't seem like a beta blocker to me, but the latter is a bit more serious IMHO
[01:25] <Kamion> ah, it wasn't a problem before because the language pack removal called locale-gen
[01:25] <pitti> right
[01:25] <pitti> sorry for that breakage :/
[01:25] <Kamion> I could just copy the contents of /usr/lib/locale/, right?
[01:26] <pitti> yes, that will work fine
[01:26] <pitti> locale-gen does more or less that, create the stuff in that dir
[01:27] <pitti> Kamion: everything in there is usually too much, though (you'll end up with all locales present on the live CD, which will make these languages appear in the gdm languager chooser and such)
[01:27] <pitti> Kamion: so, copying /usr/lib/locale/<langcode>_* seems like the right thing to me
[01:28] <pitti> the installed langpacks will care for all additional language specific locales 
[01:29] <Kamion> won't removing the languages remove those files though?
[01:29] <Kamion> so if I copy the whole lot before removing the language packs ...
[01:29] <pitti> true, that will happen
[01:29] <Kamion> just going for the simplest possible coe
[01:29] <Kamion> code
[01:29] <pitti> indeed
[01:30] <pitti> so, not having any locale at all was a result of not having any German language pack installed at any time, and the removal of the English ones
[01:31] <pitti> alright, espresso is at the file system copy stage
[01:36] <pitti> Kamion: last entry wrt. localechooser/supported-locales is 'de_DE.UTF-8, en_US.UTF-8', that looks fine
[01:41] <Kamion> pitti: there should be a /usr/lib/locale in the read-only file system, which therefore should be copied along with everything else
[01:41] <Kamion> pitti: so AFAICT the bug is only that all the locales get removed
[01:42] <pitti> so it seems that something in the installation does call locale-gen, so that the locales are purged and rebuilt
[01:44] <pitti> Kamion: oh, sorry, I suck. The German langpacks *are* on the CD and installed in the livefs
[01:45] <pitti> Kamion: so right, it seems that all langpacks get removed, since none are installed in the final system any more
[01:49] <mdke> jdub, is planet missing a favicon? tiny thing but it doesn't appear on my rss reader
[01:51] <pitti> Kamion: so, it's removing all langpacks including en and de as we speak
[01:52] <Kamion> pitti: /var/lib/espresso/apt-installed?
[01:53] <Kamion> pitti: and save /var/cache/debconf/ too, if you would
[01:53] <pitti> Kamion: apt-installed doesn't contain any language* if you look for that
[01:53] <Kamion> debconf-show espresso | grep language-packs
[01:54] <Kamion> (hopefully empty)
[01:54] <Kamion> well, empty answers
[01:54] <pitti> Kamion: it yields nothing at all
[01:55] <Kamion> debconf-show espresso | grep supported-locales
[01:56] <pitti> Kamion: do you need templates.dat?
[01:56] <wasabi> launchpad needs blogs.
[01:57] <Kamion> pitti: no
[01:57] <Kamion> just config.dat really
[01:57] <Kamion> or more immediately, the above debconf-show
[01:57] <pitti> ^ that's empty
[01:58] <Kamion> !
[01:58] <pitti> | grep language yields some bits
[01:58] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/
[01:58] <Kamion> ok, can you put /var/log/installer/espresso somewhere? that should help
[01:58] <pitti> -> espresso config.dat apt-installed
[01:58] <pitti> espresso is the verbose log
[01:59] <Kamion> not there
[01:59] <hyperactivecrond> newt should be interesting....
[01:59] <Kamion> pitti: ^--
[02:00] <pitti> Kamion: argh, sorry, rookery:tmp != rookery:public_html/tmp; reload, please
[02:00] <hyperactivecrond> good luck with that guys
[02:01] <hyperactivecrond> eek eft not newt
[02:01] <Keybuk> hyperactivecrond: right now, and for the next five weeks, dapper is still our concern
[02:01] <hyperactivecrond> Keybuk: yes, i'm aware of tha
[02:01] <hyperactivecrond> t
[02:03] <whiprush> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/32123
[02:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32123 in initramfs-tools "initramfs not generated correctly on upgrade to Dapper" [Major,Needs info]  
[02:03] <whiprush> hey guys, I ran into this today
[02:03] <whiprush> can someone point me in the right direction to get the info where it needs to go?
[02:04] <whiprush> should I just attach my generated initrd?
[02:04] <Keybuk> yes
[02:04] <whiprush> ok
[02:07] <whiprush> Keybuk: does -386 or -686 matter?
[02:07] <whiprush> or should I do both?
[02:07] <Keybuk> whichever broke
[02:07] <Keybuk> both if unsure
[02:12] <Kamion> pitti: oh, I see the problem, it's specific to the non-networked case
[02:12] <Kamion> if the apt cache update fails then we never mark the packages as to be installed
[02:16] <pitti> Kamion: do you need anything else from me?
[02:16] <Kamion> pitti: nope, thanks
[02:16] <Kamion> well, maybe a test
[02:16] <Kamion> just a minute
[02:16] <pitti> sure, no problem
[02:16] <Beuno> sorry to interrupt, but does anyone have any ideawhen the dapper beta ISO will be hitting the ftps?
[02:17] <pitti> Beuno: at some time tomorrow
[02:18] <Beuno> is everything ready to go or is there lst minute work going on?
[02:18] <Kamion> pitti: could you grab http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/espresso/ubuntu/scripts/install.py, install it as /usr/share/espresso/install.py, and try a networkless install?
[02:18] <Kamion> pitti: I'm trying a networked install now
[02:19] <Kamion> Beuno: still some last-minute stuff
[02:19] <Beuno> great, thanks  :D
[02:19] <Kamion> I'm not sure we've ever had the immense good fortune to have no showstoppers
[02:20] <robertj> I can't believe the naming of EdgyEft is a frontpage announcement
[02:20] <robertj> (on slashdot)
[02:20] <LaserJock> heh, why not ;-)
[02:20] <pitti> Kamion: doing now; should I reboot before, or just install a second time?
[02:21] <Kamion> pitti: just installing a second time should be fine
[02:21] <pitti> Kamion: btw, 'ubiquity' didn't make it for beta? :)
[02:22] <Kamion> pitti: I preferred to do slightly more urgent work ;)
[02:22] <Kamion> I'll rename it afterwards
[02:22] <pitti> wise, wise
[02:22] <pitti> well, it doesn't appear at any prominent place anya
[02:22] <pitti> anyway, even
[02:22] <Kamion> right, that was intentional to make the rename a bit more painless
[02:23] <Kamion> bugger, a crash
[02:24] <Kamion> pitti: you might as well stop ...
[02:24] <pitti> ok
[02:26] <Kamion> I'm testing myself first this time, ETA 3 minutes or so
[02:31] <Kamion> pitti: fixed version pushed, please try it now if you could
[02:31] <pitti> of course
[02:32] <pitti> Kamion: you updated the working tree, too?
[02:32] <Kamion> basic fix is to record the packages in apt-install before updating the apt cache
[02:32] <pitti> (certainly, but just making sure :) )
[02:32] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[02:36] <Kamion> pitti: it's working for me, so I'm preparing a release; just waiting for your ack
[02:36] <Kamion> then I'll run the publisher through by hand and get livefses started
[02:36] <pitti> at partitioning step now
[02:36] <pitti> this laptop isn't the fastest one around :(
[02:37] <Kamion> no kidding ;)
[02:37] <pitti> although it seems to be much slower now at the second install, but maybe that's just me
[02:41] <pitti> f)#)$, I managed to kill espresso, I have to reboot
[02:41] <Kamion> ok, don't worry, I think I have an adequate setup here
[02:42] <pitti> ok, great
[02:42] <Kamion> thanks for catching this tonight, rather than tomorrow :-)
[02:43] <jdong> how's the beta freeze going, btw?
[02:43] <pitti> . o O { I should have followed my gf's advice to not switch on the computer after the training :) }
[02:43] <Kamion> 01:18 < Kamion> Beuno: still some last-minute stuff
[02:43] <Kamion> 01:18 < Kamion> I'm not sure we've ever had the immense good fortune to have no showstoppers
[02:43] <pitti> Kamion: thanks for fixing it
[02:43] <Kamion> jdong: ^--
[02:43] <Beuno> :D
[02:44] <Beuno> that does it then?
[02:44] <Kamion> pitti: my wife's not happy with me being up half the night, but them's the breaks ...
[02:44] <pitti> Kamion: hm, just booted the live a second time and now usplash is failing
[02:44] <jdong> Kamion: thanks for the update. good luck, everyone
[02:44] <Kamion> pitti: that I can't help you with
[02:44] <pitti> it seems I'm out of luck today :)
[02:44] <pitti> no, don't worry, just a race condition somewhere I guess
[02:45] <Kamion> Beuno: I'm not going to answer that kind of question, I'm afraid :)
[02:45] <Beuno> lol
[02:46] <Beuno> gotto tell you I've been using ubuntu since warty and I'm extremely impressed with dapper
[02:46] <Beuno> you guys have done an amazing job
[02:46] <Kamion> thanks
[02:47] <Beuno> it seems it's getting pretty mainstream
[02:47] <jdong> I completely agree, Beuno 
[02:47] <jdong> some of my best friends, who are absolute Windows worshippers, are having Dapper dual-boots
[02:47] <Beuno> every tech blog you go there is some not-necesseraly-significant news on ubuntu
[02:48] <Kamion> ugh, way too many apt/wget timeouts on an install with the ethernet cable (virtually) pulled out
[02:48] <jdong> and our out-of-the-box support is unmatched
[02:48] <Beuno> yes, especially on laptops
[02:48] <Beuno> it's amazing how fast laptops got supported
[02:49] <jdong> just a tidbit of good news, we boot on all the core duo laptops I found at a local PC shop
[02:49] <jdong> of course, no ipw3945 support yet
[02:49] <jdong> but we're getting there
[02:49] <Beuno> with 2.6.15-20?
[02:50] <jdong> Beuno: benc has been working hard on it
[02:51] <jdong> Beuno: his git tree already has ipw3945 merged in; I'm assuming that after beta freeze lifts, we'll get it uploaded
[02:51] <Beuno> nice, now all I have to do is get a core duo laptop
[02:51] <Beuno> :)
[02:51] <jdong> sound and AGP work great on the core duos
[02:51] <jdong> we have backported kernel patches from git for that
[02:52] <jdong> so with 3945, we will support core duos fully OOTB
[02:52] <jdong> Kamion: would this be the 4th or 5th espresso today?
[02:52] <Kamion> jdong: fifth, if you count "day" as "since I last slept"
[02:52] <jdong> :)
[02:53] <jdong> maybe a longer beta freeze is needed next time around?
[02:53] <Kamion> wouldn't have made any difference
[02:53] <Kamion> the problem, if any, was scheduling it right after the Easter holidays
[02:54] <Kamion> but fundamentally it was just catching bugs that hadn't been caught before, not ones that had been newly introduced
[02:54] <jdong> yeah, I've been noticing how stuffed LP is with bugs :)
[02:54] <jdong> and oh boy, espresso....
[02:55] <jdong> it's come such a long way
[02:55] <jdong> just... wow... you guys never fail to amaze me
[02:56] <Beuno> does anyone have an estimate on the current ubuntu user base?
[02:56] <jdong> I suppose _that's_ why it's marked for 2.6.16 :)
[03:06] <infinity> whiprush: That initramfs-tools upgrade bug should have been fixed as of yesterday...
[03:08] <wasabi__> infinity: =)
[03:09] <wasabi__> infinity: Part of it was my key. I learned how to update it in LP. It still rejects though. Says I don't have access.
[03:10] <wasabi__> Still on the MOTU team. ;)
[03:14] <whiprush> infinity: just hit it today about 2 hours ago, I've attached my initrd.
[03:14] <Riddell> hmm, I need to do an upload of kubuntu-default-settings
[03:14] <whiprush> infinity: it's my test box so it's just sitting there if you need more info
[03:16] <infinity> whiprush: Which version of initramfs-tools was installed by your upgrade?
[03:16] <whiprush> looking
[03:18] <ogra> ok, edubuntu isos are all ok, i'm off to bed
[03:18] <infinity> wasabi__: Err, yeah, you can't upload without being in "ubuntu-dev" or "ubuntu-core-dev"
[03:18] <wasabi__> There a process for joining those? Nobody ever told me. ;0
[03:19] <infinity> wasabi__: If you were an approved MOTU uploader before the switch to LP, you should already be in the "ubuntu-dev" group, but you may have been overlooked.
[03:20] <wasabi__> Yeah, I was approved previously. I have quite a few uploads under my belt. ;)
[03:21] <whiprush> infinity: 0.40ubuntu29
[03:21] <pitti> Kamion: ok, I did a complete install and a boot into the new system; confirmed that it works well now; thanks a lot!
[03:21] <pitti> so, off to some sleep, finally
[03:21] <pitti> good night!
[03:21] <whiprush> nite pitti 
[03:21] <tseng> bye pitti 
[03:22] <Riddell> infinity: can you make new lifefs and CD builds once kubuntu-default-settings_6.06-10 hits the archives?
[03:22] <Riddell> or Kamion if he's still awake
[03:22] <infinity> Yeah, I can do that.
[03:23] <infinity> You need install CDs too, or just liveCDs?
[03:23] <Riddell> thanks
[03:23] <Riddell> install too
[03:23] <infinity> Mmkay.
[03:23] <infinity> whiprush: And you're sure you didn't upgrade to that version of initramfs-tools after the dist-upgrade? :/
[03:24] <whiprush> nope
[03:24] <infinity> Damn.
[03:24] <whiprush> mirror out of sync maybe?
[03:25] <infinity> whiprush: Do you have any custom kernel-img.conf setup, like telling it not to create symlinks, for instance?
[03:25] <whiprush> no, a week old breezy install.
[03:25] <whiprush> no customizations, other than some desktop apps.
[03:26] <infinity> So, /boot/initrd.img is a symlink to the 2.6.15-20-686 initrd?
[03:26] <whiprush> ah, interesting
[03:27] <whiprush> that symlink doesn't exist.
[03:27] <whiprush> cd ..
[03:27] <whiprush> it's in / though
[03:27] <infinity> Same thing.  It's fine in /
[03:27] <whiprush> ok
[03:27] <infinity> Either should do.
[03:27] <BenC> FYI, ipw3945 is in the next kernel upload
[03:28] <BenC> just in case anyone is wondering...it's in git now
[03:28] <BenC> infinity: any coordination I need to do with you on lrm?
[03:29] <infinity> BenC: I suspect we want the daemon in LRM, right?
[03:29] <infinity> BenC: And if the driver starts it automagically, then you need to know the propsed path for said daemon.
[03:32] <BenC> I'm not sure it does
[03:32] <BenC> I have the driver, and ucode in the kernel
[03:32] <BenC> I'll check up on the daemon
[03:33] <infinity> The original plan was to ship the daemon in LRM.
[03:33] <infinity> And because it seems to be tied to kernel driver version (eww), I was going to version the daemon binary, so you can have several installed side-by-side.
[03:34] <wasabi__> infinity: Who do I have to petition to be added to the group?
[03:34] <infinity> wasabi__: Just try to add yourself to the group in LP, your request will get mailed to the group admins (which appears to be the Tech Board)
[03:35] <wasabi__> Cool. This LP stuff is odd. It's like an object wiki thing
[03:35] <wasabi__> Never seen quite a beast.
[03:41] <Kamion> infinity: can you let me do it? I'm coordinating espresso binaries through lp
[03:42] <Kamion> and generally have a big list in front of me :)
[03:42] <infinity> Kamion: Hah.  Go nuts.
[03:43] <infinity> Kamion: It certainly won't hurt my feelings to go do one of any number of other things I have on my little list.
[03:43] <Kamion> heh
[03:43] <Kamion> infinity: anything that makes hppa/ia64/sparc live fs builds go faster would be real nice
[03:44] <infinity> Kamion: Faster machines?
[03:44] <infinity> Kamion: They're also out of space currently.  Cleaning that up.
[03:45] <infinity> Kamion: Do we really need derivative livecds built on those arches?
[03:45] <Kamion> infinity: no, I can skip them on edubuntu and xubuntu; but kubuntu does have ports CDs
[03:45] <Kamion> infinity: I only taught my script today how to build just some architectures
[03:52] <Beuno> Not Found         The requested URL /releases/dapper/ was not found on this server.
[03:52] <Beuno> heh
[03:52] <Beuno> that's dimage.ubuntu.com
[03:52] <Beuno> cdimage.ubuntu.com
[03:53] <Riddell> Kamion: interesting news, I may have tracked down the kde espresso kdialog crash for real
[03:54] <Riddell> Kamion: I managed to get gdb to give me a backtrace and it crashes if the program name is over a certain length
[03:54] <infinity> Kamion: Okay, I've purged those arches of edubuntu and xubuntu for now, if you just build ubuntu and kubuntu on them, they SHOULD survive for a little while, until I can get some better storage solutions for everyone.
[03:54] <elmo> Beuno: should be fixed now, thanks
[03:55] <Beuno> yeah, was a small glitch
[03:55] <Beuno> I guess those servers will be going through hell in a while
[03:55] <Kamion> Riddell: what's the program name in this context?
[03:56] <Riddell> Kamion: the human readable name passed to KAboutData
[03:56] <Kamion> so "Kubuntu Espresso"?
[03:57] <Riddell> change "Kubuntu Espresso" to "Installer" or anything under 12 characters and it stops crashing
[03:57] <Kamion> "espresso" should be removed everywhere, btw
[03:57] <Kamion> in human-readable strings
[03:58] <infinity> I love how that implies that programmers aren't human.
[03:58] <whiprush> infinity: I am heading to bed, I'll keep the machine busted, if you need more info just ask in the bug.
[03:58] <Kamion> Riddell: are you pretty sure that this'll be the last change you need?
[03:58] <infinity> whiprush: Yeah, cool.  Thanks.
[03:58] <infinity> whiprush: Actually, wait.
[03:58] <infinity> whiprush: Before you go...
[03:58] <shawn_home> hmm, bleeding edge edgy eft, throw in GNU libc 2.4 :)
[03:59] <whiprush> infinity: k
[03:59] <infinity> whiprush: How much free space do you have on /tmp and /boot?
[03:59] <shawn_home> is there a channel for discussion on edgy eft stuff? or this is the place?
[03:59] <infinity> whiprush: Maybe you're seeing a different bug, and we're both assuming it's the one you're following up to.
[03:59] <Kamion> Riddell: if so, I can throw it in now
[03:59] <shawn_home> <- lives on the edge, almost falling off it
[03:59] <whiprush> infinity: I have it all as /, 64gb free
[03:59] <infinity> whiprush: Okay, cool.  Thanks.
[03:59] <Kamion> shawn_home: there isn't; this may be the place later, but we're trying to prepare a beta release at the moment, and after that will be trying to prepare dapper
[04:00] <Riddell> Kamion: yes, I'm sure enough, please do
[04:00] <infinity> shawn_home: There's no where to discuss it yet, since we're busy doing a beta release for dapper.
[04:00] <shawn_home> ok :)
[04:00] <Kamion> -        about=KAboutData("kubuntu-espresso","Kubuntu Espresso","0.1","Live CD Installer for Kubuntu",KAboutData.License_GPL,"(c) 2006 Canonical Ltd", "http://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEspresso", "jriddell@ubuntu.com")
[04:00] <Kamion> +        about=KAboutData("kubuntu-espresso","Installer","0.1","Live CD Installer for Kubuntu",KAboutData.License_GPL,"(c) 2006 Canonical Ltd", "http://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEspresso", "jriddell@ubuntu.com")
[04:00] <whiprush> infinity: as a matter of interest, a friend of mine ran into the same problem 2 nights ago, but the fix in the bug worked from him, so when I got the same error I assumed that's what happened to me.
[04:00] <Riddell> Kamion: perfect
[04:01] <Kamion> ok, uploading, will roll into the next by-hand publisher run
[04:01] <infinity> whiprush: Oh, wait.  Bah.  I didn't read your comment very carefully...
[04:01] <infinity> whiprush: You regenerated the initrd and it STILL failed?
[04:01] <whiprush> yep.
[04:01] <infinity> whiprush: Then you've got a different bug than this one.
[04:01] <whiprush> dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-whatever regenerates that right?
[04:01] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu-default-settings will need published too
[04:01] <whiprush> because that's what I did
[04:02] <infinity> whiprush: It should, yes.
[04:02] <Kamion> Riddell: yep, it's in accepted so will be
[04:02] <whiprush> when that didn't work I did a mkinitramfs /boot/2.6-whatever 2.6-whatever
[04:02] <infinity> whiprush: So, I may need more info on what exactly happens on boot, etc.
[04:02] <Riddell> Kamion: great, thanks
[04:02] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks for that
[04:02] <whiprush> infinity: the splash hangs on mounting root fs
[04:03] <whiprush> after 20 seconds or so, it says waiting on root fs.
[04:03] <infinity> whiprush: Boot with no splash and no quiet, see what sort of errors you see, or if there's an obvious issue (like, you disk is detected as /dev/hda, but you're trying to mount /dev/sda, etc)
[04:03] <whiprush> then after about 5 minutes, it spits me to a busybox shell.
[04:03] <whiprush> ok, trying now.
[04:04] <infinity> whiprush: This is definitely not the same bug.  These people were all experiencing a bug where the initrd was broken during the upgrade, but would work fine if re-generated (due to my stellar logic in update-initramfs that would reconfigure the initrd for the running kernel instead of the newly-installed kernel..)
[04:04] <infinity> That bug should be fixed.
[04:05] <infinity> Yours, however, smells like a "Scott broke it" thing. :)
[04:05] <whiprush> yeah, mine broke on upgrade, but regenerating didn't fix it.
[04:05] <whiprush> I pass nosplash and noquiet as kernel arguments right?
[04:06] <infinity> whiprush: Well, you just remove "splash" and "quiet" from the current command line, but yeah.
[04:06] <whiprush> k
[04:08] <whiprush> Begin: Waiting for root file system ... ...
[04:10] <lifeless> whiprush: you got evms ?
[04:10] <whiprush> paging up shows the ide drives as hdg and hdh
[04:10] <whiprush> they should be hdc and hdd
[04:10] <whiprush> lifeless: not afaik
[04:10] <lifeless> whiprush: ah, because I have a fault with evms startup
[04:11] <infinity> Okay, if they're coming up with the wrong driver lettering, you get to file a bug on udev and/or the kernel, argue with BenC and Keybuk over whose bug it is (depending on if it's a driver bug, or a load order bug), and then get it resolved there.
[04:11] <whiprush> ok, after showing the Begin: ... stuff, it times out and goes to busybox
[04:11] <infinity> whiprush: Definitely isn't the bug you followed up to, though.
[04:11] <infinity> s/driver lettering/drive lettering/
[04:11] <whiprush> infinity: understood.
[04:12] <whiprush> is there a way I can determine wether it's udev or the kernel?
[04:12] <whiprush> or do I just pick one?
[04:12] <lifeless> infinity: if evms_activate isn't ?
[04:13] <infinity> lifeless: Erm, what?
[04:13] <infinity> whiprush: Pick udev.  Scott's spent a lot of time tearing apart device detection stuff, so he should be able to quickly divine if it's actually a kernel bug.
[04:13] <lifeless> my fault is that evms_activate isn't succesfully running in the initramfs. Once it times out, I just have to do 'evms_activate', then ctrl-D
[04:13] <infinity> whiprush: Or, you can assign it to both udev and linux-source-2.6.15, and let it shake out that way.
[04:14] <infinity> lifeless: Hrm, do running it by hand works?  That's curious.
[04:14] <whiprush> ok, will do so.
[04:14] <infinity> lifeless: s/do/so/
[04:14] <whiprush> infinity: thanks for the help
[04:14] <lifeless> infinity: indeed
[04:14] <infinity> lifeless: Guess it's running at the wrong time, or hitting a race of some sort?
[04:14] <lifeless> bug 34209
[04:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34209 in linux-source-2.6.15 linux-image-2.6.15-17-k7 "2.6.15-17-k7 doesn't boot on Athlon 2000+" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34209
[04:15] <lifeless> is where I added my notes.
[04:15] <infinity> lifeless: Can you fiddle with evms's initramfs scripts in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts and see if you can come up with something that works?
[04:15] <lifeless> infinity: if I wasn't trying furiously to get bzr ready for dapper too - sure.
[04:15] <infinity> Fair point.  If only I had an evms setup. ;)
[04:16] <lifeless> as it is, this is my server, so if I'm going to do 1001 reboots to debug something, I'd really much rather do it with someone that knows the initramfs stuff backwards paired with me
[04:16] <lifeless> (online is fine)
[04:16] <lifeless> because I'm completely unproductive while that box is down.
[04:16] <wasabi__> <--- evms setup
[04:17] <infinity> wasabi__: And does it work for you in dapper?
[04:20] <wasabi__> yeah, recently.
[04:20] <wasabi__> There were a few upgrades that hosed it.
[04:20] <wasabi__> evms in local-top used to be missing a PREREQ on udev.
[04:20] <wasabi__> in fact it still is.
[04:20] <wasabi__> ???
[04:20] <infinity> Yeah, evms hasn't changes for ages...
[04:21] <infinity> s/changes/changed/
[04:21] <wasabi__> Heh. So there's one issue.
[04:21] <wasabi__> evms runs before udev.
[04:21] <wasabi__> (alphabetically)
[04:21] <wasabi__> evms_activate sees no devices.
[04:21] <lifeless> wasabi__: that would my bug
[04:22] <lifeless> infinity: evms needs device-mapper loaded to work
[04:22] <infinity> lifeless: That may be your problem.  Can you pop 'PREREQ="udev"' at the top of /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/evms, then update-initramfs -u -k `uname -r`
[04:22] <infinity> lifeless: And see if that makes it all better?
[04:22] <lifeless> infinity: when I get home
[04:22] <lifeless> infinity: I'm at mpools right now
[04:22] <wasabi__> I reported this as a bug.
[04:22] <wasabi__> Never followed up with it though.
[04:22] <infinity> wasabi__: No, no one ever follow up, and some bugs kinda fall by the wayside.
[04:23] <whiprush> infinity: mind if I quote you in the bug?
[04:23] <infinity> I think I'll clone Kamion too, for good measure.  We could use more of him.
[04:23] <infinity> whiprush: GO hard.
[04:23] <whiprush> heh
[04:27] <wasabi__> Hmm. Apparently I didn't file it as a bug.
[04:28] <wasabi__> I fixed it on all 4 of my boxes though haha
[04:29] <whiprush> infinity: reported.
[04:29] <infinity> Danke.
[04:35] <whiprush> infinity: the gui dist-upgrade tool was pretty badass though. :)
[04:48] <wasabi__> Woh!
[04:48] <wasabi__> netowrk manager now works!
[04:48] <wasabi__> kudos!
[04:52] <lifeless> infinity: do you have lvm ?
[05:09] <infinity> lifeless: Nope.  I'm very vanilla on my dapper system.
[05:15] <shawn_home> hrm, im hoping NetworkManager has a CLI so if you *dont* have Xorg running, you can still, you know, start a network? :)
[05:15] <shawn_home> if not, we're turning our backs on CLI world
[05:15] <wasabi__> I always wished NM would give up it's "only used for desktop machines or laptops" goal.
[05:15] <Kamion> well, we're not embracing network-manager for dapper anyway
[05:16] <wasabi__> It has use for servers too.
[05:16] <Kamion> it's in main now, but not installed by default
[05:16] <wasabi__> OS X and Windows don't have two ways to configure machines, one for servers and one for desktops;.
[05:16] <shawn_home> Im concerned everyone is rushing to the GUI craze while forgetting Linux/UNIX were founded on CLI tools
[05:17] <shawn_home> and if i cant start eth0 without X we have a *problem*
[05:17] <Kyral> start eth0
[05:17] <Kyral> easy
[05:18] <Kyral> sudo ifconfig eth0 up && sudo dhclient eth0
[05:18] <Kyral> game set match :D
[05:18] <shawn_home> ifconfig is dead, use iproute2 :)
[05:18] <Kyral> wazzat?
[05:18] <Kyral> and ifconfig has always worked for me :D
[05:18] <shawn_home> net-tools is so dead: http://linux-net.osdl.org/index.php/Iproute2
[05:18] <shawn_home> "Most network configuration manuals still refer to ifconfig as network configuration tool, but that's wrong, because ifconfig is known to behave inadequately in modern network environment. Its usage should be deprecated"
[05:19] <shawn_home> net-tools (from which ifconfig comes from) is 'dead'
[05:19] <shawn_home> Edgy should switch away from the old userspace 
[05:20] <shawn_home> ip addr add 1.2.3.4 dev eth0
[05:21] <shawn_home> mind you, iproute2 doesn't display route info very nice as the route command does (though if people start hacking on iproute2 it could be done)
[05:21] <Kamion> iproute in general suffers from poor usability
[05:21] <shawn_home> true, its more 'ciscoish' like
[05:21] <Chipzz> dunnow if that even matters
[05:21] <shawn_home> or bsd like
[05:22] <Chipzz> but you're going to alienate *a lot* of users coming from other distro's (or other UNIX'es for that matter)
[05:22] <Kyral> One of my personal goals for Edgy is to introduce tools that will make lowlevel tweaking a lot easier
[05:22] <Kamion> also system administrators do not have infinite time to spend learning new tools; it's unlikely we'll drop sysadmin-brain-compatibility with Unix for a long time
[05:22] <Kyral> basically for us CLI junkies
[05:23] <Chipzz> even SGI has it, be it in /usr/etc :P
[05:23] <Chipzz> s/SGI/IRIX/
[05:23] <Kamion> though I'd have no problem with moving more to iproute under the hood
[05:23] <infinity> Just because ifconfig sucks for complex setups is no reason to drop it anyway.  It plays nicely with iproute2, so there's no issue having both installed.
[05:24] <shawn_home> heh
[05:24] <infinity> But I agree that ifupdown (or some whizzbang new setup people want to move to, whatever) should use iproute2 under the hood.
[05:24] <Chipzz> yeah
[05:24] <shawn_home> sure you can have both installed
[05:24] <Kyral> I really wanna see something for the easy management of initscripts
[05:24] <shawn_home> I am glad to see more userspace is now GNU the author of CrackLib has told me 3.0 is GPL now (the new author)
[05:25] <shawn_home> and it has a configure script!
[05:25] <Kyral> I mean I love the rc.conf in Arch where you list the Daemons you want starting. If you wanna stop one from starting you just remove it from the list
[05:25] <Kamion> and it's not had a new upstream version packaged since hoary
[05:25] <Chipzz> Kyral: you mean you find one giant config file actually *user-friendly*?
[05:25] <shawn_home> yeah i have it on my dapper snapshot
[05:26] <Kyral> Chipzz, it isn't a one gaint config file
[05:26] <shawn_home> but nobody is using it :)
[05:26] <Kyral> but its quite nice for the initial bootup
[05:26] <Chipzz> sure reminds me of *BSD
[05:26] <shawn_home> its there, but not used i dont think
[05:26] <Kamion> although that's actually a forgotten merge, apparently
[05:26] <Kyral> Chipzz, have you used Arch before?
[05:26] <LaserJock> how does Gentoo do init scripts? I always found it easy to use
[05:26] <Kamion> or, no, a merge that came in after UVF
[05:26] <Chipzz> Kyral: no, I don't care for source-based crap :P
[05:26] <Kyral> Chipzz, it isn't
[05:26] <shawn_home> we have to becareful though with initscripts, theres a historical standard we can't break overnight
[05:26] <shawn_home> think Vmware and other tools..
[05:27] <shawn_home> non-free even 
[05:27] <Kyral> Chipzz, its Binary based, though it makes it VERY easy to rebuild from source
[05:27] <Chipzz> hrrrm ok
[05:27] <Chipzz> anyway I haven't
[05:27] <Kyral> One thing that currently miffs me about Ubuntu is how many unneeded services startup
[05:28] <shawn_home> like RAID on my laptop? :)
[05:28] <Kyral> I mean I don't have LVM, RAID, or Bluetooth, so why are they starting or even installed?
[05:28] <Chipzz> Kyral: evms and lvm for example? :)
[05:28] <shawn_home> heh
[05:28] <Kyral> Surely we can use the HW-Detection to make the decisions
[05:28] <shawn_home> we should make them all conditional
[05:28] <shawn_home> Kyral, depends how you do the early init bootup
[05:28] <Chipzz> Kyral: worse; wtf can't I remove them?
[05:28] <Chipzz> (ok you can remove bluetooth)
[05:28] <Kyral> or ppp
[05:28] <Kamion> no, we deliberately install that stuff unconditionally so that e.g. when you get a bluetooth phone you don't have to install extra stuff in order to use it straight away
[05:28] <shawn_home> I dont use the ubuntu kernel with dapper snapshot
[05:29] <Kyral> Kamion, but then at least make it easy to disable
[05:29] <LaserJock> it seems to me like it doesn't matter what the defaults are if we have a good method for turning them off (or on)
[05:29] <Kamion> similarly filesystem etc. support to ensure that switching to other filesystems is not unduly painful
[05:29] <Kamion> it was a conscious decision
[05:29] <shawn_home> Kamion: but a /etc/default/bluetooth-bluez  config file with ENABLE=  might be nice
[05:29] <Kamion> Kyral: update-rc.d
[05:29] <Kamion> shawn_home: sure, no objection to that
[05:29] <shawn_home> use what /etc/default was for :)
[05:29] <Kamion> send a patch
[05:29] <shawn_home> :)
[05:29] <Chipzz> Kamion: yes, but hardcoding dependencies in the linux-image debs is not the way to go IMHO
[05:29] <Kyral> Kamion, thats a PITA to use, have you need the manpage?
[05:29] <Kyral> s/seen/need
[05:29] <Kamion> Chipzz: what does that have to do with any of the above?
[05:29] <shawn_home> Kamion: i need to sync up first before I can do that, but yeah a patch can be done easily 
[05:29] <Kamion> Kyral: many times
[05:30] <Kyral> Right now sysv-rc-conf is a better solution
[05:30] <Kamion> or bum, or whatever
[05:30] <Kamion> there are plenty of service management tools
[05:30] <shawn_home> the thing is Kbuntu starts up the kbluetooth service, and loads bluetooth kernel drivers (if found)
[05:30] <shawn_home> so, even if you turn it off during boot up, you still have to use it heh
[05:30] <Kyral> I dunno, maybe I'm spoiled by Arch's tweakablity
[05:30] <Chipzz> Kamion: I cant get rid of it unless I remove my kernel with it
[05:31] <Kamion> Chipzz: you can most certainly remove evms and lvm packages (including init scripts, etc.) without removing your kernel
[05:31] <shawn_home> Kamion: but dont use aptitude to do it, or it'll want to remove ubuntu-desktop +++
[05:31] <shawn_home> ;)
[05:31] <Kyral> I mean...if I do a server install (like I normally do) maybe we should remove those
[05:31] <shawn_home> i dont know why everything is dependant on ubuntu-desktop mind you
[05:31] <Kyral> I mean, you assume that people pulling a server install know what they are doing
[05:32] <Kamion> shawn_home: if you don't want to take the default Ubuntu desktop, then removing ubuntu-desktop is correct
[05:32] <Chipzz> Kamion: I just discovered you can indeed remove lvm... but I don't think that is (or was?) the case for evms iirc
[05:32] <Kamion> there is nothing wrong with removing it
[05:32] <shawn_home> true, but it sometimes decides to remove more than I want 
[05:32] <Kamion> Chipzz: I believe firmly that you're mistaken here
[05:32] <Kyral> apt-get install GNOME
[05:32] <Kyral> See, this is what Edgy is for, for us to try out radical changes :D
[05:32] <infinity> Chipzz: Removing evms works fine here.
[05:33] <infinity> Chipzz: Just removes ubuntu-standard (which is not a problem, if you didn't want our package selection in the first place)
[05:33] <shawn_home> Kyral, you can do apt-get install gnome (well aptitude install gnome)
[05:33] <LaserJock> Kyral: you know how to package, *hint* ;-)
[05:33] <shawn_home> meta packages
[05:33] <shawn_home> metagroup packages or whatever
[05:33] <Kyral> LaserJock, no shit :P
[05:33] <Chipzz> Kamion: maybe I'm mistaken, or maybe the situation was such with breezy... anyway, removing lvm as we speak ;)
[05:33] <Kyral> there is a "gnome" package
[05:33] <Kyral> just like in Debian
[05:33] <infinity> We seem to have a disconnect between "people who want their own package selection" and "people who want ours", and "people who want to have both ours and theirs at the same time, magically"
[05:33] <infinity> The last option can't ever work.
[05:33] <Kyral> I'm in the first group :D
[05:34] <shawn_home> I don't mind K/Ubuntu's selection, its some dependencies that make me scratch my head
[05:34] <Kamion> Chipzz: breezy's initramfs-tools had a dependency on lvm2, which may be what you're thinking of
[05:34] <Kyral> Or should I say "I wanna use Ubuntu's packages and Repos, but I wanna build it from the bottom up"
[05:34] <infinity> Kyral: And the first group is easy to satisfy.  Remove stuff, watch our metapackages go away, and you're done.
[05:34] <Kyral> and have easy tweak power :D
[05:34] <Kamion> Chipzz: but it wasn't "hardcoding dependencies in the linux-image debs"
[05:34] <Kyral> Oh we should get the Beyond Kernels in
[05:34] <Chipzz> Kamion: that may indeed have been what I was thinking of
[05:34] <Chipzz> my apologies in that case
[05:35] <shawn_home> my bad mdadm:
[05:35] <shawn_home>  ubuntu-standard: Depends: mdadm but it is not installable   lvm-common: Depends: mdadm but it is not installable
[05:35] <Chipzz> lvm and evms, begone! :)
[05:35] <shawn_home> ubuntu-standard != desktop
[05:35] <Chipzz> *poof* :)
[05:35] <Kamion> shawn_home: ubuntu-standard is removable in the same way -desktop is, if you don't like the selection
[05:36] <shawn_home> if those are just meta packages they won't remove the whole distro ? :) i've had it do that twice 
[05:36] <shawn_home> it decided i couldn't remove x and said it needed to rip out 2GB or so =)
[05:36] <shawn_home> so i decided i won't do that
[05:36] <Kamion> no, they should not remove the whole distro
[05:36] <LaserJock> I haven't had that problem shawn_home 
[05:36] <shawn_home> hmm, then thats a bug if I find that happening again :)
[05:36] <Chipzz> shawn_home: not sure if aptitude or synaptic does that, but apt-get doesn't
[05:37] <Kamion> for anything based on apt, you should be able to turn on the problem resolver and dig into its decisions
[05:38] <Chipzz> hrrrm I did find a bug I think though
[05:38] <Chipzz> neither mdadm, nor lvm{2|common}, nor evms regenerates the initramfs's on removal
[05:39] <Chipzz> not sure which of those needs to do that
[05:39] <Kamion> sounds like cause to file bugs
[05:39] <Chipzz> but I recall at least one of those regenerating them on upgrade
[05:39] <Kamion> anything that does update-initramfs in its postinst should probably do so in its prerm/postrm instead
[05:39] <Kamion> s/instead/as well/
[05:39] <Kamion> at least if it's plausibly removable
[05:40] <wasabi__> eclipse-pydev is pretty nice.
[05:40] <Chipzz> # man update-initramfs
[05:40] <Chipzz> No manual entry for update-initramfs
[05:40] <Chipzz> blegh
[05:41] <Kamion> bug 26085
[05:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 26085 in initramfs-tools "ubuntu breezy badger has no man-page for update-initramfs" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26085
[05:41] <shawn_home> Im guessing K/Ubuntu will work with the Debianites on Edgy, well feeding back patches? or is it a break from Debian unstable?
[05:41] <Chipzz> Kamion: no matter, --help does the trick ;)
[05:42] <Kamion> hopefully final beta-candidate Ubuntu live CDs up now
[05:42] <Kamion> shawn_home: business as usual
[05:42] <shawn_home> :)
[05:42] <Kamion> I expect
[05:42] <wasabi__> shawn_home: Not quite sure you mean. Ubuntu itself is a break from stable.
[05:42] <wasabi__> unstable.
[05:42] <shawn_home> wasabi: but it 'takes' from unstable and stablizes it
[05:42] <wasabi__> Heh, not exactly.
[05:42] <Chipzz> oh crap
[05:42] <shawn_home> thats what I thought originally 
[05:42] <Chipzz> # update-initramfs -u -v
[05:42] <Chipzz> Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.15-19-686
[05:42] <Chipzz> cpio: ./sbin/mdadm: No such file or directory
[05:42] <Chipzz> cpio: ./sbin/mdrun: No such file or directory
[05:42] <Chipzz> cpio: ./sbin/vgchange: No such file or directory
[05:42] <wasabi__> It 'takes' from stable and 'leaves sitting in universe'.
[05:43] <shawn_home> oh
[05:43] <Chipzz> so far for purging mdadm :/
[05:43] <Kamion> ok, folks, we need to get this beta release sorted here, and I don't know about anyone else but I'm on not remotely enough sleep
[05:43] <wasabi__> It 'takes from upstream, makes better, and offers to unstable'
[05:43] <Kamion> please take meta-discussion somewhere else for now
[05:43] <wasabi__> k
[05:43] <Kamion> and file bugs about non-beta-critical problems rather than pasting them into IRC
[05:44] <Kamion> shawn_home: beta is beta, final will be 6.06
[05:44] <Kamion> beta-candidate Edubuntu live CDs building
[05:45] <shawn_home> I have not encountered any 'bugs' in beta on my laptop in recent months
[05:45] <shawn_home> (mind you have a snapshot Xorg side-by side with ubuntu's X since im debugging AIGLX/Xgl stuff from -head)
[05:45] <Kamion> I think you mean in dapper; the dapper beta release doesn't exist yet :)
[05:46] <shawn_home> well whatever is in the archive.* sites
[05:46] <shawn_home> unless i have to change my apt sources im not aware of
[05:47] <Kamion> infinity: castilla and vivies don't seem to want to build livefses for me
[05:47] <shawn_home> Im assuming anyone using dapper from archive.* 'is' beta currently
[05:48] <Kamion> shawn_home: in the context of dapper, beta has a defined meaning which is not as vague as "during the development cycle"
[05:48] <Kamion> i.e. the release we're trying to prepare for tomorrow
[05:48] <Kamion> using this channel to coordinate
[05:48] <shawn_home> a real 'CD' cut basically
[05:50] <shawn_home> hmm, 279MB needed..i am behind 
[05:51] <Kamion> sorry, I'm trying to be polite, but maybe the hints are too subtle; we need to use this channel for release coordination at the moment. Comments about release issues or CD image testing work are welcome, but I'd ask that other chat be taken elsewhere for the meantime.
[05:53] <shawn_home> what bugs are currently open for beta, perhaps I can use some to look at 'em?
[05:53] <Kamion> feel free to test whichever daily builds from cdimage.ubuntu.com take your fancy; the test matrix is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[05:54] <shawn_home> would testing in vmware be ok (I dont really want to hose my ubuntu laptop) ?
[05:55] <Kamion> sure, though in that event you might want to choose something slightly unusual since some of us test Ubuntu images in vmware already
[05:55] <shawn_home> anything specific you'd like me to test?
[05:56] <shawn_home>  Ubuntu CD installation, expert sounds good
[05:56] <Kamion> the test matrix in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current lists the useful things to do; I don't want to bias testing
[05:56] <shawn_home> actualy, DVD since i have a DVD 
[05:59] <shawn_home> hmm i should the torrent 2.6GB will take 2 hours @ 270KB/s..
[06:00] <shawn_home> is there a set test to do? or there's no specific order to QA the DVD
[06:01] <Kamion> the wiki page has directions
[06:01] <shawn_home> ah there..
[06:03] <shawn_home> is Kubuntu dapper going beta tomorrow as well, maybe I should test the kde bits since thats what I use natively
[06:03] <Kamion> everyone: please retest Ubuntu CD images, particularly the live CD which has been rebuilt recently to fix some espresso bugs
[06:04] <Kamion> other derivatives are pending
[06:04] <Kamion> infinity: ping
[06:04] <shawn_home> ok, ubuntu then is fine
[06:04] <Kamion> new Edubuntu live CDs up
[06:09] <shawn_home> ok, maybe getting the dvd torrent isn't good, there's nobody who has it yet ;)
[06:10] <infinity> Kamion: pong
[06:10] <Kamion> infinity: castilla and vivies don't want to build Ubuntu livefses for me, AFAICT
[06:10] <Kamion> stuck on a lock?
[06:11] <shawn_home> ok, i can start testing ubuntu dvd server install, in 1 hour 30 mins aprox 
[06:11] <Kamion> thanks
[06:11] <infinity> Kamion: Possibly.  Checking.
[06:11] <shawn_home> its downloading @ half a meg so i'll do that in vmware, I can test on physical hardware, but its 12am here, so im limited in time :(
[06:12] <infinity> Kamion: Try now.
[06:13] <Kamion> infinity: better, thanks - they appear to be going
[06:14] <Kamion> though no actual output from castilla yet; might just be slow
[06:14] <Kamion> ah, there it is. thanks!
[06:19] <shawn_home> 10% *whistles to himself*
[06:21] <Gloubiboulga> hello
[06:23] <Kamion> kubuntu/install images updated with new kubuntu-default-settings
[06:30] <shawn_home> Kamion, when does all testing need to be finished by?
[06:30] <shawn_home> I can bring my laptop to work and continue testing 
[06:31] <Kamion> in about eight hours' time I imagine we'll want to be releasing
[06:31] <shawn_home> hrm, 12:30am now
[06:31] <Kamion> at this point only utter showstoppers will cause it to be put back
[06:32] <shawn_home> i guess im late on the testing :(
[06:44] <shawn_home> 32% downloaded...faster!
[06:45] <CarlFK> Kamion: can you look at the last 40 lines of http://dev.personnelware.com/carl/temp/Apr19/d/syslog4940  its 350k  ( I added a blank lines around what repeats)
[06:45] <CarlFK> shawn_home: is 'testing' just run the installer with the defaults?
[06:46] <shawn_home> there's two types; Short and long
[06:48] <Kamion> CarlK: search for partman-auto/automatically_partition; looks to me as if you need to preseed that
[06:49] <Kamion> xubuntu/live rebuilt with new espresso, please test; xubuntu/install was built a while back
[06:52] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, I'm downloading xubuntu live to test
[06:52] <Kamion> Gloubiboulga: thanks
[06:52] <Kamion> Gloubiboulga: the python-gnome2-extras dependency is gone now, which should help you
[06:53] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[06:59] <CarlFK> Kamion: cloest I can find is #d-i partman-auto/init_automatically_partition  on   http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/install/i386/apbs03.html#preseed-partman
[06:59] <shawn_home> 45% downloaded
[07:00] <shawn_home> Kamion, Eastern time Dapper goes beta?
[07:01] <Kamion> CarlFK: docs may not be up to date
[07:01] <Kamion> shawn_home: huh?
[07:01] <fabbione> morning guys
[07:01] <shawn_home> what time zone are you going by for Beta of Dapper?
[07:01] <Kamion> shawn_home: I have absolutely no clue
[07:02] <shawn_home> its 1am over where I am, and you said 8 hours to beta
[07:02] <shawn_home> in 8 hours it'll be sunrise for me :)
[07:02] <Kamion> nor do I particularly care; we'll release when it makes sense to do so
[07:02] <shawn_home> ok, then I can bring my laptop and do long test for DVD server
[07:02] <Kamion> 8 hours was a fairly wild estimate
[07:02] <shawn_home> just need to guide when testing has to be wrapped up by 
[07:02] <Kamion> ASAP
[07:03] <shawn_home> well, I do have sleep or i'll be doing nothing :)
[07:03] <Kamion> I'm afraid I can't give you a deadline
[07:03] <Kamion> testing is valuable even after the beta release, though; it can be fed into bug reports
[07:04] <shawn_home> there is anticipation of a 2nd beta?
[07:04] <shawn_home> 50% 
[07:04] <Kamion> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[07:05] <shawn_home> UTC time...hmmm....
[07:06] <shawn_home> ok, then my testing will be post beta release, since it wont make it in time UTC is already 5-6am over there
[07:07] <Kamion> the link was in answer to your question about a second beta, not your question about timezones
[07:07] <Kamion> the question about timezones is fairly meaningless since for releases like this the people on the critical path often tend to just stay up
[07:09] <shawn_home> oh im tryin, its just that 7am yesterday morning to 1am now. is starting to push my sleep boundry ;-) I by 2-3am i'll have to be put on extra adrenline or i'll pass out with the laptop still on
[07:12] <Kamion> infinity: hppa and sparc Ubuntu live CD builds both died (SIGKILL and SIGABRT respectively); out of memory?
[07:12] <Kamion> infinity: at this point I'm inclined to say screw-it and release without those live CDs
[07:13] <infinity> Oh, FFS.  Seriousl?
[07:13] <infinity> y
[07:13] <shawn_home> it is beta only ;)
[07:14] <Kamion> infinity: as far as I can tell ... both in the cloop build
[07:14] <infinity> Well, isn't that special.
[07:14] <Kamion> so ENOMEM seems kinda plausible
[07:14] <infinity> ENOMEM seems unlikely, with the gobs of RAM in those machines.
[07:14] <infinity> 2GB on vivies, 3.5GB on castilla.
[07:15] <infinity> Anyhow, I'll do some tests by-hand, and let you knof it they behave.
[07:15] <Kamion> yeah, I'm out of time for ports really
[07:15] <infinity> Yeah, don't do ports.  I can rerun daily-live for ports later if I get livefs images.
[07:16] <infinity> You got ia64 built, though?
[07:16] <infinity> (livefs, not ISO)
[07:17] <shawn_home> 38 min left of dvd download
[07:19] <Kamion> infinity: yeah, a while back
[07:19] <wasabi__> wow sleep works for me. nm works for me.
[07:19] <wasabi__> things are looking up
[07:20] <infinity> Kamion: Okay, cool.  I'll just re-spin ISOs after I get livefses on the other two arches, then.
[07:20] <Kamion> kubuntu live updated too now
[07:22] <wasabi__> night
[07:23] <Chipzz> bug 40267
[07:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40267 in initramfs-tools "copy_exec doesn't check if a file exists" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40267
[07:23] <Chipzz> infinity: I think this is something for you ;)
[07:23] <infinity> Chipzz: It is indeed.
[07:24] <Chipzz> patch attached
[07:24] <fabbione> infinity: do you want access to my T2000 for a test run?
[07:25] <infinity> fabbione: Only if vivies keeps acting up...
[07:25] <fabbione> infinity: ok
[07:26] <shawn_home> 72% almost there..
[07:32] <Kamion> so basically the CD builds that are left are ports/live (if hppa, sparc get fixed, otherwise maybe ia64 only), kubuntu/install/ports rebuild due to temporary ports.u.c breakage, and DVD builds (Ubuntu in progress)
[07:32] <Kamion> everything else should be golden and good to test, so please do
[07:33] <Kamion> the old Ubuntu DVD builds currently published should be fine for traditional installer tests, too; the new build only matters for espresso installs
[07:34] <shawn_home> old by what date?
[07:34] <Kamion> 20060419
[07:34] <shawn_home> thats the one im downloading =)
[07:34] <dieman> when will we see beta release so I can remember to force a mirror refresh on this end?
[07:34] <Kamion> dieman: sometime later today, can't give you an exact date
[07:34] <Kamion> er, time
[07:35] <dieman> i upgraded the disk on our mirror
[07:35] <dieman> had some uh, used scsi gear
[07:35] <shawn_home> 8%...17 mins remain
[07:35] <dieman> moved from a single ide disk to 24 or so scsi disk on 2 raid 5s that are striped together :)
[07:35] <shawn_home> er 82
[07:37] <Kamion> splash-down fix works nicely
[07:51] <CarlFK> Kamion: still looping - tried "partman-auto/automatically_partitionstring/dev/discs/disc0/disc" and "... booleantrue"   http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12586 
[07:51] <Kamion> CarlFK: ok, sorry, I'm not going to be able to look at it today
[07:52] <CarlFK> Kamion: one thing I noticed: "FSET partman/confirm seen true" then later: "SUBST partman/confirm ITEMS The following partitions..."  and then "INPUT critical partman/confirm ... <-- 30 question skipped" - is that expected ?
[07:52] <CarlFK> ah, no prob
[07:52] <Kamion> I have the beta release to sort out and I haven't had enough sleep to debug partman in any event
[07:52] <CarlFK> thought mabe it would be worth a few extra runs
[07:54] <shawn_home> finished
[07:54] <shawn_home> time to test install
[07:55] <shawn_home> i wont mark myself as the official tester since i wont complete this @ 2am fully
[07:59] <shawn_home> ok i have latest dvd build checksum matches
[07:59] <shawn_home> dapper-dvd-i386.iso            19-Apr-2006 23:25  2.6G
[08:14] <dieman> grr
[08:14] <dieman> wish lighttpd supported the .htaccess stuff
[08:14] <dieman> went back to apache for now
[08:18] <shawn_home> eep!
[08:18] <shawn_home> vmware doesn't run
[08:19] <dieman> eep!
[08:19] <shawn_home> /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5: version `GLIBCPP_3.2' not found (required by ./vmware)
[08:19] <dieman> player or workstation?
[08:19] <shawn_home> we stripped out some ABI bits?
[08:19] <shawn_home> either
[08:19] <shawn_home> n/mi know why..
[08:20] <dieman> ok
[08:30] <shawn_home> no, it wont run
[08:30] <shawn_home> /usr/local/vmware/lib/vmware/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2) 
[08:30] <shawn_home> bah
[08:35] <shawn_home> bingo
[08:35] <shawn_home> im good, its working 
[08:36] <shawn_home> 8GB should be enough
[08:39] <shawn_home> uh oh
[08:39] <shawn_home> Begin: Waiting for root file system... ... (Server install mode)
[08:39] <shawn_home> is that supposed to take so long? :)
[08:57] <shawn_home> thought it was SCSI, tried iDE, removed usb/sound, nope...
[08:58] <shawn_home> hrm
[08:58] <mdke> shawn_home, are you testing a daily cd?
[08:58] <shawn_home> oh 
[08:58] <shawn_home> yes
[08:58] <mdke> can you please file a bug?
[08:58] <shawn_home> ALERT! /dev/ram does not exist. Dropping to a shell!  
[08:58] <mdke> thinking out loud in here might not help the developers much
[08:58] <shawn_home> yeah lemme try ain
[09:03] <shawn_home> reproducable, logging bug
[09:06] <mdke> thanks
[09:06] <shawn_home> is this though initramfs-tools or busybox-initramfs im not sure which state its in, it dumped me to a busybox shell
[09:09] <mdke> again, thinking out loud is unlikely to help, it just crowds the channel. I'm sure the developers will get to your bug, when the time is right
[09:10] <shawn_home> i know but im asking you :)
[09:10] <mdke> as I say, the developers will see your bug
[09:11] <shawn_home> ok
[09:17] <dholbach> good morning
[09:19] <Mithrandir> hi Daniel
[09:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: what's the current state of affairs?  Images all ready for testing?
[09:19] <Kamion> fabbione: have you tried net-install for server preseeding today?
[09:20] <dholbach> hey Tollef
[09:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: */live/ports a bit broken; kubuntu/install/ports, kubuntu/dvd, and edubuntu/dvd need rebuilds
[09:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: otherwise we're good for testing
[09:21] <Kamion> virtually everything had to be rebuilt in the end - there were enough fixes to merit that
[09:21] <Kamion> including the inevitable midnight "oh shit" fix to espresso
[09:22] <fabbione> Kamion: yes. 40262
[09:22] <fabbione> meh
[09:22] <fabbione> bug 40727
[09:22] <fabbione> bug 40272 
[09:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40272 in base-installer "linux-server preseeding is broken" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40272
[09:22] <fabbione> Kamion: i did file a bug to not forget
[09:22] <fabbione> but it didn't work
[09:22] <Kamion> oh, that *was* netboot, sorry
[09:22] <fabbione> yes netboot
[09:22] <Kamion> check the base-installer version on your mirror?
[09:23] <Kamion> otherwise I'll look post-beta, I guess - think it's too late now
[09:23] <fabbione> sure- one sec
[09:23] <fabbione> base-installer_1.42ubuntu9.tar.gz
[09:23] <sivang> morning all
[09:23] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, I'll sync down the ISOs and start testing away, then.
[09:24] <Kamion> ok, that's current, oh well
[09:28] <Kamion> infinity: any progress on the castilla/vivies crashes?
[09:28] <spstarr_home> sleep, I'll look at this more from work
[09:30] <infinity> Kamion: Well, I can tell you it wasn't a one-time thing.  A repeat performance on each yields the same results. :/
[09:46] <Kamion> this brltty memory suckage stuff on the mailing list sounds bad; is anyone investigating that?
[09:50] <TheMuso> Only using 6.9% on one system here, and 3.8 on another. Both machines have different amounts of RAM. I should also note that I am not using any Braille hardware at all.
[09:50] <TheMuso> CPU usage for both is also low.
[09:51] <Treenaks> Kamion: I've not investigated it, but I can confirm on ppc, x86 and amd64
[09:51] <TheMuso> 1.3 on one machine, and 5.1 on another.
[09:51] <seb128> Kamion: some #ubuntu-desktop guy pointed it yesterday and dholbach said he will work on it first thing today
[09:53] <Kamion> I'm concerned that it may be a beta showstopper
[09:54] <mvo> Kamion: dholbach is on it
[09:54] <Kamion> dholbach: please keep me updated
[09:54] <dholbach> Kamion: there's a patch on bug 40174
[09:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40174 in brltty "Serious Memory Leak" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40174
[09:54] <dholbach> i want to investigate it with valgrind
[09:55] <seb128> Gary patches are right usually
[09:55] <seb128> just give a try to the patch imho
[09:55] <Kamion> well, that claims to fix the leak each time detection fails; what about the problem that it tries detection over and over and over again rather than just giving up?
[09:57] <seb128> hum
[09:57] <Kamion> dholbach: I'm going to do a by-hand publisher run very soon; if you can catch that, great
[09:57] <TheMuso> I think it is always searching for USB hardware.
[09:58] <TheMuso> I don't know what upstream's plans for working with dbus/hal are however.
[09:58] <dholbach> TheMuso: the new version in debian has udev magic for brltty
[09:58] <TheMuso> dholbach: hmm right.
[09:58] <TheMuso> I agree with those who say it shouldn't be running if it is not needed.
[10:00] <Kamion> rather than make a complex and risky change, I would rather disable it as simply as possible for beta, in such a way that we can fix it in an upgrade after beta
[10:02] <Kamion> we don't have a lot of time
[10:02] <Kamion> rebuilding live images alone will take us several hours
[10:03] <Kamion> may have to defer the fix, but I think that's mdz's call
[10:03] <Kamion> mdz: ^--
[10:03] <sivang> has the beta been released already?
[10:03] <Kamion> sivang: no
[10:03] <Kamion> 09:00 < Kamion> rather than make a complex and risky change, I would rather disable it as simply as possible for beta, in such a way that we can fix it in an upgrade after beta
[10:03] <Kamion> does that imply that the beta has been released? it shouldn't
[10:04] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, Xubuntu live works fine, the installation with espresso too
[10:04] <Kamion> Gloubiboulga: great, thanks; do you have a test table on the wiki for Xubuntu like Testing/Current for Ubuntu?
[10:04] <sivang> Kamion: sorry, I didn't deduce from anything, just geunienly inquiried :)
[10:05] <seb128> maybe you should read the chan before asking so
[10:05] <seb128> Kamion: are we supposed to clean the wiki page on every new CD image?
[10:05] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, I don't think so
[10:05] <Kamion> seb128: I left the old data there so that we could refer to it
[10:05] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, but it can be created, what is the Ubuntu page?
[10:05] <Kamion> deliberately
[10:05] <Kamion> Gloubiboulga: Testing/Current, as I just said
[10:05] <seb128> right
[10:06] <Gloubiboulga> ah, ok
[10:06] <seb128> but like the automatic partition change install
[10:06] <Kamion> seb128: I think we have to consider testing at least partially invalidated, although obviously not entirely
[10:06] <seb128> it failed yesterday and is fixed now
[10:06] <seb128> should I keep 2 entries for it? just the current one?
[10:06] <Kamion> seb128: if it's confirmed fixed, that's great; perhaps we can remove the N from the old table, then
[10:06] <Kamion> well
[10:06] <seb128> right, makes sense
[10:06] <Kamion> no, note in the new table that the bug in question is fixed
[10:06] <Kamion> I think
[10:07] <seb128> works for me
[10:07] <Kamion> either works, this just seems a little more explicit
[10:09] <pitti> Good morning
[10:09] <seb128> hey pitti
[10:09] <dholbach> hey pitti
[10:09] <mvo> hello pitti
[10:10] <jsgotangco> good morning pitti
[10:10] <dholbach> Kamion: do you think i should do something like        # comment the following line to make it work again \n exit 1        in the init script - just for beta?
[10:12] <Kamion> dholbach: it's crude, but it's a fix we can have more or less total faith in ...
[10:12] <Kamion> TheMuso: I'd like your opinion though, bearing in mind the risk
[10:13] <TheMuso> I'd say go for it. Just re-checking the processes on both my machines, I can also confirm the problem. AFAIK we only have one braille user who is on the ubuntu a11y list, and he is tech savvy, so he would be able to get around it if need be. I think he uses Debian anyway.
[10:13] <dholbach> I just applied the memleak patch from cvs and it looks good - but I'd rather like to make completely sure and not run brltty at all (for the time of the beta) - we can always investigate in udev / etc afterwards
[10:13] <TheMuso> So its fine by me.
[10:13] <sivang> morning pitti 
[10:13] <pitti> hi guys
[10:14] <pitti> wow, seb128 is earlier than me :)
[10:14] <Kamion> dholbach: right, go for it then, please
[10:14] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I was surprised about it too :p
[10:14] <dholbach> Kamion: ok - thanks, TheMuso: thanks.
[10:14] <Kamion> the publisher's running, but I can run it again as soon as base-installer binaries arrive
[10:14] <TheMuso> np
[10:14] <Mithrandir> dholbach: I'd go for exit 0 instead of exit 1 just in case usplash decides to display something.
[10:15] <Mithrandir> (but that's probably just cargo-culting so you might want to ignore me)
[10:15] <dholbach> Mithrandir: ok, thanks for the pointer.
[10:15] <pitti> seb128: well, I was awake until 03:20, helped Kamion to debug an espresso bug :)
[10:15] <pitti> hey sivang, moin jsgotangco 
[10:15] <seb128> utch
[10:15] <seb128> you fixed it?
[10:16] <pitti> well, Colin did :)
[10:16] <seb128> that's the language pack one?
[10:16] <Kamion> seb128: yeah, fixed
[10:16] <seb128> cool
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: they were all removed in networkless installs
[10:17] <seb128> I've noticed it was removed languagepacks yesterday, but I thought that was other locales stuff
[10:17] <seb128> my laptop is a "networkless install", I need to run dhclient by hand to get network
[10:19] <Lathiat> i find i have to rerun dhclient often on my laptop
[10:19] <Lathiat> second time it works
[10:20] <seb128> grumpf, that is new
[10:20] <seb128> "mount: Mounting /dev/loop0 on /rofs failed: Invalid argument"
[10:21] <seb128> and it stop booting
[10:21] <seb128> (i386 CD rsync-ed half and hour ago)
[10:24] <seb128> same
[10:24] <seb128> did anybody got that already?
[10:25] <dholbach> not me
[10:25] <dholbach> bad burn?
[10:25] <doko> pitti print ping
[10:26] <pitti> doko: pong
[10:26] <dholbach> Kamion: i'm ready - can I upload brltty?
[10:26] <Kamion> dholbach: yes
[10:26] <doko> bug 9373, which URL's are valid? trying to add these, which cups can understand
[10:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 9373 in gnome-cups-manager "GUI does not accept all URL schemes accepted by CUPS itself" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/9373
[10:27] <dholbach> done
[10:28] <pitti> doko: ugh, no idea
[10:28] <seb128> Kamion: "mount: Mounting /dev/loop0 on /rofs failed: Invalid argument" ... does that speak to you?
[10:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: can you sort out seb128?
[10:29] <Kamion> (it's Mithrandir's code)
[10:30] <Mithrandir> seb128: ugh.
[10:30] <Mithrandir> seb128: arch?
[10:31] <seb128> i386
[10:31] <seb128> dunno if that's due to new image or to the partitioning changes from previous install (I did a "automatically changes partitions and install" one) or bad CD
[10:32] <Kamion> I'm not seeing the huge memory use reported from brltty here; only 2% CPU from time to time
[10:32] <seb128> is there an easy way to get some debug? should I try on an another CD?
[10:32] <Kamion> we'll need to decide whether that merits a rebuild; I've SMSed mdz
[10:32] <Mithrandir> seb128: is the cd mounted?
[10:32] <Mithrandir> seb128: hmm, it should be.  dmesg say anything interesting?
[10:32] <seb128> Mithrandir: how do I know that?
[10:32] <seb128> I get the liveCD menu
[10:32] <seb128> I select the first option
[10:33] <Mithrandir> seb128: you have a rescue shell somewhere
[10:33] <Mithrandir> tty1 or something
[10:33] <Mithrandir> seb128: I think this would be a bad cd, but we could always try to verify that.
[10:33] <seb128> hum, VT switching doesn't work 
[10:33] <seb128> oh it does
[10:33] <seb128> so
[10:33] <seb128> cd is mounted
[10:34] <seb128> dmesg: not found
[10:34] <seb128> no /var/log (I'm not familiar with CD debugging world)
[10:34] <Mithrandir> you're in an initramfs.
[10:35] <Mithrandir> cat /proc/kmsg and see if you see any kind of read errors there.
[10:35] <seb128> media error (bad sector) on the CD
[10:36] <seb128> k, let's try with another one :)
[10:36] <seb128> thank you
[10:36] <Mithrandir> well, that explains it. :-)
[10:36] <Mithrandir> np
[10:36] <jmg> has anyone noticed that linux cdrs are very susceptible to scratching?
[10:36] <jmg> especially knoppix
[10:37] <Mithrandir> jmg: they are?
[10:37] <infinity> It has nothing to do with the OS on the CD. :)
[10:37] <infinity> A file is a file is a file on an ISO9660 filesystem.
[10:37] <jmg> i have lots and lots that get one scratch and are useless
[10:37] <jsgotangco> its all about storing them
[10:37] <jmg> infinity: gets tricker with cloop
[10:37] <jmg> jsgotangco: oh?
[10:37] <jmg> jsgotangco: whats the magic?
[10:38] <infinity> jmg: Okay, so if your filesystem is one massive file (like a cloop) on the CD, then a bad scratch can take out the whole file... And?
[10:38] <infinity> jmg: Better to know the CD's broken than to find out later that some random file was corrupt.
[10:38] <jmg> actually
[10:39] <jmg> its probably more a side effect of shitty dye/plastic 
[10:39] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: hi, have you also tried an install CD?
[10:39] <jmg> infinity: ive had scores of disks fail to install after just one successful use
[10:40] <Kamion> publisher running again
[10:41] <pitti> Kamion: uh, another one? only live or also new installs?
[10:41] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, I've tried the 1st iso released, not a recent one
[10:41] <Kamion> pitti: publisher => archive cron.daily
[10:41] <janimo> ok
[10:41] <pitti> ah
[10:41] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: ok
[10:41] <mvo> pizza ...
[10:42] <Mithrandir> doko: changing default language for documents in ooowriter is ignored.
[10:42] <mvo> *yum*
[10:42] <jmg> Kamion: we will be able to sync to debian when doogie uploads 3.0.2-2
[10:42] <jsgotangco> infinity: choice food of real overworked developers?
[10:42] <jmg> Kamion: he's lost his key or something
[10:42] <Kamion> jmg: huh, what?
[10:42] <doko> Mithrandir: liveCD or installed?
[10:42] <jmg> Oh wait, was it kaloz that i was talking to earlier about xen?
[10:42] <jmg> sorry
[10:42] <Kamion> jmg: I certainly have no interest in it
[10:43] <Kamion> probably Kaloz, yeah
[10:43] <Kamion> mdz says we rebuild for the brltty fix
[10:43] <jmg> looks to be me kaloz and hunger for ubuntu xen strikeforce :)
[10:43] <Mithrandir> doko: installed.  amd64.
[10:44] <Kamion> dholbach: I hope this fix is well-tested :)
[10:44] <Kamion> because we may only get one shot at it
[10:44] <dholbach> Kamion: i tested it, brltty doesn't start any more - and I'm happy the less I have to touch it too :)
[10:44] <jmg> what's the bug?
[10:44] <infinity> Testing "exit 0" is pretty tough. :P
[10:45] <TheMuso> heh
[10:45] <Kamion> no other paths other than the init script via which brltty might get started by default?
[10:45] <Kamion> weird that I don't see the memory leak in vmware?
[10:45] <Kamion> maybe it's only if you have USB hardware
[10:45] <jmg> isnt brltty the blind persons tty?
[10:45] <Kamion> apt-cache show brltty
[10:46] <TheMuso> Kamion: thats likely.
[10:46] <jmg> Kamion: dont bet on it. vmware's emulation is dodge as
[10:46] <infinity> Kamion: I definitely see the leak here.  21 hours up, and it's using 700 MB.
[10:46] <dholbach> for the usb stuff: might good be - i don't see how else it'd be started in a default setup
[10:46] <Kamion> infinity: wow
[10:47] <jmg> whats this bug with brltty?
[10:47] <infinity> I'm pretty siure, from experience, that that doesn't work./
[10:47] <jmg> and memory leak?
[10:47] <TheMuso> To see whether it is very intrusive.
[10:47] <Mithrandir> nice, xsane works with my scanner out of the box.
[10:47] <Kamion> bug 40174
[10:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40174 in brltty "Serious Memory Leak" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40174
[10:48] <Kamion> also see the mailing lists
[10:48] <infinity> Bah, 700MB in a day isn't "serious"... I still have another 1348MB to go.
[10:49] <infinity> (When I bought the laptop, my cousin asked me why I needed 2GB in a laptop, and my response was, in fact, "memory leaks"...)
[10:49] <ajmitch> heh
[10:49] <infinity> Tongue-in-cheek, mind you.
[10:49] <sivang> infinity: yes, but less memory helps you identify leakage bugs more easily :_)
[10:49] <ajmitch> I wouldn't call it excessive
[10:49] <jmg> ouch
[10:51] <jmg> heh
[10:53] <infinity> seb128: Did you ever hunt down what's causing this output on install:
[10:53] <infinity> (gtk-update-icon-cache:13958): GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders': No such file or directory
[10:54] <seb128> infinity: no
[10:54] <dholbach> infinity: where do you get that?
[10:55] <slomo_> btw, why is the daily live of powerpc ~80MB larger than for x86? :)
[10:55] <Kamion> more language packs
[10:56] <infinity> dholbach: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/livefs-build-logs/dapper/ubuntu/current/livecd-20060420-i386.out
[10:57] <Kamion> oh, shit, ssh's connection multiplexing helpfully got confused and killed my shell that was running the publisher
[10:58] <jmg> Kamion: o_O
[10:58] <infinity> That's why I always background the publisher when I'm driving it by hand...
[10:58] <jmg> screen..
[10:58] <Kamion> yes, it's in screen *now*
[10:59] <Kamion> hindsight is 20:20
[10:59] <jmg> lollerskates
[11:00] <dholbach> infinity: there are a few things that are strange: libgtk2.0-bin is installed after tangerine-icon-theme, but the postinst of tangerine-icon-theme (generated by dh_iconcache) checks its existence (gtk-update-icon-cache) beforehand, so it shouldn't be executed at all
[11:03] <pitti> Kamion, dholbach: just to make sure, 'CD installation, auto-resize' means 'use largest chunk of free space'?
[11:03] <infinity> dholbach: Err, no, it's unpacked WAY before, so the binary clearly exists.
[11:03] <infinity> dholbach: I'm guessing you actually need the postinst to run before it's useful?
[11:03] <infinity> dholbach: In which case, tangerine-icon-theme should depend on libgtk2.0-bin, so they get configured in the right order.
[11:04] <dholbach> infinity: you need the postinst to generate the icon theme cache, if the cache is not there, it looks up icons directly, which is fine
[11:05] <Kamion> pitti: no, "resize <partition> and use free space"
[11:05] <Kamion> pitti: that option is not always offered; it depends on your partition layout
[11:05] <dholbach> I didn't want icon themes / other packages with icons to depend on it, as the cache is only generated, if you have libgtk2.0-bin (not likely for the kde folks and they most likely don't need a gtk icon cache)
[11:06] <pitti> Kamion: ah, ok; well, then we miss an extra line for 'largest chunk of free space' in the test matrix?
[11:06] <Kamion> pitti: I suppose, but it's not a particularly interesting case once the others are taken into account
[11:06] <dholbach> Um.... "Filesystem could not be created." (I used amd64, live-cd, auto erase) (it had an LVM on there beforehand)
[11:06] <Kamion> because it's basically equivalent to erase but on a different subset of the disk
[11:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: my usb2 hard drive isn't automounted.
[11:07] <infinity> dholbach: Wel, maybe if you test for '/etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders' before running it?
[11:07] <Mithrandir> (fresh amd64 install)
[11:07] <dholbach> infinity: that's a good idea, although I don't see yet, where it's generated or where it comes from.
[11:07] <infinity> dholbach: Or make gtk-update-icon-cache silent when the conffile is missing, if that expected.
[11:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: can you please do the steps on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices and send me the logs?
[11:07] <mvo> dholbach: I have seen a similar problem with a lvm, it didn't erase my disk then
[11:07] <dholbach> infinity: i'll do that after beta.
[11:07] <mdz> morning
[11:08] <pitti> hey mdz
[11:08] <mdz> Kamion: how is the rebuild progressing?
[11:08] <jmg> hi mdz
[11:08] <Kamion> the publisher is running with brltty source
[11:08] <Kamion> it would have been done except that I accidentally killed the shell running the publisher, oops
[11:08] <infinity> dholbach: At a guess, I'd say /usr/sbin/update-gdkpixbuf-loaders in libgtk2.0-bin's postinst is what's responsible for creating it.
[11:08] <jmg> kamion: dont do that (tm)
[11:08] <Kamion> after that, we need to run the publisher again for binaries, and then start the main rebuild
[11:09] <Kamion> jmg: ok, please stop it
[11:09] <dholbach> infinity: thanks for that - I'll check that.
[11:09] <Kamion> jmg: if you're not going to contribute usefully, then don't
[11:09] <jmg> last time, promise
[11:09] <dholbach> jmg: everybody is tense for beta release, please respect that.
[11:10] <infinity> dholbach: capplets-data has the same issue... I suspect just about anything that might trigger gtk-update-icon-cache will have the issue... So perhaps silencing it a bit might be a better option.
[11:10] <Mithrandir> pitti: grr, now it worked. :-/
[11:10] <Kamion> mdz: I have to go out very shortly to take my car for repairs, but hopefully won't be too long
[11:10] <dholbach> infinity: I'd really better like to identify issues like that.
[11:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: yay heisenbug
[11:10] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[11:11] <jmg> Kamion: sorry
[11:11] <infinity> dholbach: Or, if this is all a result of your debhepler hacking, then you can just twiddle the dh_iconcache stuff and rebuild the world, I guess.
[11:11] <dholbach> infinity: so checking for /etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders seems the best fix for now
[11:11] <dholbach> yeah
[11:11] <Mithrandir> pitti: yeah, sorry. :-/
[11:12] <Kamion> infinity: could you please watch for this publisher run finishing, and then watch for all the brltty binaries appearing in accepted, and then kick off another publisher run?
[11:12] <Kamion> infinity: by that point I should be back
[11:12] <Mithrandir> mvo: why does synaptic start behind and other windows on the screen?
[11:12] <seb128> Mithrandir: how do you start it?
[11:13] <seb128> panel? menu? command line?
[11:13] <Mithrandir> seb128: system - administration - synaptic package manager
[11:13] <mvo> Mithrandir: there was a bug in gksus startup-notification code, but it was (should have been) fixed with a recent upload
[11:13] <seb128> Mithrandir: there was agksu bug but it's supposed to be fixed
[11:14] <seb128> and it works fine for me (just tried)
[11:14] <jmg> question
[11:14] <joelbryan> Hello, how do I post an image in the wiki, from an existing attachment or image location?
[11:14] <jmg> why does malone not track the version of the package the bug was filed on?
[11:14] <mdke> joelbryan, HelpOnActions/AttachFile
[11:14] <joelbryan> thanks
[11:14] <Mithrandir> mvo: how recent?
[11:15] <dholbach> jmg: ask in #launchpad or look for bugs filed on Malone
[11:15] <mdke> pitti, is it difficult to add new printer support? my printer doesn't show up in cups-admin and I've found a ppd file for it. Can I file a bug? if so, on what?
[11:15] <Mithrandir> mvo: this is a fresh install installed from a CD synced about 1.5 hours ago.
[11:15] <jmg> dholbach: okay
[11:15] <pitti> mdke: hmm, it shouldn't be too difficult, we just need to find an appropriate package to ship it in
[11:16] <pitti> mdke: you are sure about the PPD file's license?
[11:16] <mdke> pitti, gpl
[11:18] <mdke> pitti, no idea whether it will work or not tho
[11:18] <mdke> http://www.linuxprinting.org/download/PPD/Sharp/sham700u.ppd
[11:18] <pitti> mdke: if you put it in /usr/share/ppd/custom/ and then attempt autodetection, does it do the right thing?
[11:19] <infinity> Kamion: Completely missed the above, but yes, I'll babysit the publisher.
[11:19] <mdke> pitti, will try it
[11:19] <Kamion> infinity: thanks
[11:20] <mvo> Mithrandir: it was bug #31487, please reopen 
[11:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31487 in gksu "gksudo launched applications open behind other windows" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31487
[11:20] <infinity> Setting up language-pack-bn-base (6.06+20060407) ...
[11:20] <infinity> Generating locales...
[11:20] <infinity>   bn_BD.UTF-8... LC_ADDRESS: field `lang_ab' must not be defined
[11:20] <infinity> failed
[11:20] <infinity> pitti: ^^^
[11:20] <mdke> pitti, do I need to restart anything after copying it there?
[11:21] <joelbryan> is perl included in dapper main?
[11:21] <infinity> joelbryan: yes.
[11:21] <pitti> mdke: actually not, just remove your printer and reattempt to detect it
[11:22] <infinity> joelbryan: Please ask that sort of thing in #ubuntu.
[11:22] <joelbryan> perl without libperl-irc
[11:22] <pitti> Error: 'bn_BD.UTF-8' is not a supported language or locale
[11:22] <pitti> infinity: hmm
[11:22] <mdke> pitti, it's a network printer. But the driver has appeared, I'll try a test page
[11:22] <pitti> infinity: ok, it's bn_BD, nevermind
[11:22] <Kamion> mdz: FWIW, fortunately only Ubuntu and Edubuntu need to be rebuilt for this brltty thing; brltty is in supported in Kubuntu and ubuntu-server, and not there at all in Xubuntu
[11:23] <pitti> infinity: shall I fix it for beta?
[11:23] <infinity> pitti: No, just make a note of it and fix it after, please. :)
[11:23] <pitti> infinity: i. e. did you get this for livefs building?
[11:23] <pitti> infinity: ok, *phew*
[11:23] <pitti> infinity: TODOed
[11:24] <Kamion> infinity: publisher has finished (I'm waiting for my parents to come back to tow my car, so still hanging around ...)
[11:24] <mdke> pitti, it's not printing. says "Pending:printer-stopped
[11:25] <pitti> mdke: and starting the printer doesn't work?
[11:25] <infinity> Kamion: I saw, I'm by-handing the queuebuilder.
[11:25] <mdke> pitti, the printer seems ready and waiting.
[11:26] <pitti> mdke: anything helpful in /var/log/cups/error_log?
[11:26] <infinity> pitti: Surely, the past tense of TODO would be TODONE? :)
[11:26] <pitti> that sounds strange
[11:26] <pitti> :)
[11:26] <infinity> "I TODID it, it's TODONE... I'll DO it tomorrow."
[11:27] <fabbione> ROFL
[11:29] <mdke> pitti, E [20/Apr/2006:10:28:44 +0100]  PID 11141 crashed on signal 11!
[11:29] <mdke> pitti, lots of E [20/Apr/2006:10:25:56 +0100]  cupsdAuthorize: Local authentication certificate not found!
[11:29] <pitti> mdke: are you using the current dapper version or my 1.2rc2 test packages?
[11:30] <mdke> pitti, current dapper
[11:30] <pitti> mdke: I'd love you if you could test 1.2rc2: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-April/017211.html
[11:30] <pitti> mdke: maybe it fixes the crash
[11:30] <infinity> mdke: Do you have samba installed and have SMB shares?
[11:30] <infinity> mdke: Or anything SMB related?
[11:31] <infinity> mdke: smbspool has a SEGV in it that I'd planned to fix after beta, since it seemed not quite critical enough to hold up the release, IMO.
[11:31] <mdke> infinity, it's an SMB printer, dunno what I have installed
[11:31] <infinity> Yeah, SMB printer means SEGV-city for you.
[11:32] <pitti> mdke: ah, I thought it was a remote IPP printer
[11:32] <mdke> ok, awesome to know that you've got it under control. Got a bug number?
[11:32] <pitti> mdke: anyway, if you have a local printer, feel free to test the new version anyway :)
[11:32] <mdke> heh, I wish i had one of those at home
[11:33] <mdke> pitti, I'll try IPP, i think it's available too
[11:33] <infinity> mdke: bug #39662
[11:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39662 in samba smbclient "smbspool segmentation fault" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39662
[11:33] <pitti> mdke: yes, it's way easier anyway, even more so with cups browsing
[11:33] <mdke> infinity, thanks dude.
[11:34] <mdke> pitti, browsing?
[11:35] <pitti> mdke: cups can automatically collect advertised printers and use them, so that you don't need to configure *anything*
[11:35] <pitti> mdke: just enable it in System -> Admin -> Printers -> Global settings -> Detect LAN printers
[11:35] <mdke> ok
[11:36] <mdke> ooh, lots of printers begin to appear
[11:37] <pitti> mdke: o/` It's a kind of magic o/`
[11:37] <mdke> and it doesn't need drivers for those?
[11:37] <pitti> mdke: shouldn't
[11:37] <pitti> mdke: it just sends them postscript and let them cope
[11:37] <pitti> that works fine for remote cups servers at least
[11:38] <infinity> All IPP printers should work that way.
[11:38] <pitti> no idea about hardware network printers, I never saw one of these
[11:38] <sivang> mdke: that's a joint pitti/sivang effort :)
[11:38] <mdke> holy crap, it works brilliantly
[11:38] <sivang> mdke: pitti on the backend, sivang on the frontend :-)
[11:38] <infinity> It's an SMB oddity that SMB-shared printers demand pre-processed jobs (requiring a driver on the client)
[11:38] <pitti> heh
[11:38] <mdke> ok, forget SMB then
[11:41] <pitti> alright, off to test amd64 CDs, bbl
[11:42] <infinity> Kamion: Publisher running, it caught all 6 binary uploads.
[11:43] <dholbach> infinity: bon apptit
[11:48] <klepas> :)
[11:49] <Manny> hi
[11:49] <Manny> dholbach, ping
[11:49] <dholbach> Manny: pong
[11:50] <Manny> dholbach, http://rafb.net/paste/results/HMo6Mu32.html maybe you could add them to the GNOME meta package? :)
[11:50] <dholbach> Manny: I'll ask jordi about his opinion - as he maintains that package in Debian
[11:50] <dholbach> jordi: what do you think about adding those?
[11:50] <dholbach> Manny: thanks for your work
[11:51] <Mithrandir> mdke: pressing a link in "about ubuntu" when firefox is running (on another desktop) doesn't make it pop up to the current desktop.  Is that on purpose?
[11:51] <seb128> dholbach: that's being discussed on #gnome-debian for Debian but since you are not on the chan I said to Manny to ping you
[11:59] <Manny> how often does the wiki pull the login data from launchpad?
[12:00] <jordi> dholbach: my first thought is "sure, why not!"
[12:01] <dholbach> jordi: good thinking :)
[12:04] <freeflying> bug 40305
[12:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40305 in debian-installer "Install dapper using 2006-04-10's dapper-install-powerpc cd, d-i can not generate sources.list corrctly." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40305
[12:06] <Manny> jord, dholbach: should I file a bug report so that it doesn't get lost or are you handling it right now?
[12:07] <dholbach> Manny: a bug report is fine. thanks for your efforts.
[12:07] <Manny> dholbach, ok
[12:09] <infinity> Kamion: cron.daily complete.
[12:09] <grayy> www.24freesex.com
[12:10] <mdke> Mithrandir, pressing a link in the yelp document? I don't know, it depends on how yelp handles links.
[12:11] <mdke> Manny, the wiki does it on the fly
[12:12] <jmg> fabbione: any kernel stuff i can help with?
[12:12] <fabbione> jmg: 40291
[12:13] <jmg> fabbione: ok
[12:21] <mdz> infinity: binaries published, ready for livefs builds?
[12:22] <mh21> pitti: is there anything broken in cupsys that should prevent local authorization?
[12:22] <infinity> mdz: I can kick them off now on ppc/amd64/i386, sure.
[12:22] <mdz> infinity: please
[12:22] <mdz> and install CD builds in parallel
[12:23] <jsgotangco> fabbione: bigiron should work on a P4 in theory?
[12:23] <fabbione> jsgotangco: yes
[12:24] <infinity> mdz: Running.
[12:24] <mdz> thanks
[12:25] <jmg> fabbione: hmm... cant confirm
[12:25] <jmg> fabbione: boots here
[12:25] <fabbione> jmg: does it boot for you?
[12:25] <fabbione> ok
[12:25] <jmg> but, i found something
[12:26] <jmg> there was a bug... zeroconf route worse than no route?
[12:26] <infinity> mdz: We needed both ubuntu and kubuntu, right?
[12:27] <infinity> Or was it ubuntu and edubuntu?
[12:27] <ogra> infinity, ubuntu & edubuntu 
[12:27] <pitti> mh21: hey! :)
[12:28] <jmg> hmm, network-admin cant handle my configuration
[12:28] <Manny> mdke, I see - it wasn't obvious that the "Name" field requires me to enter the e-mail address. I tried my launchpad ID with and without its spaces
[12:28] <pitti> mh21: works fine for me...
[12:28] <infinity> ogra: Kay, I'll do edubuntu right after the ubuntu run.
[12:28] <ogra> take your time
[12:28] <jmg> infinity: you could shorten that to "edu, k, u"
[12:28] <ogra> i have tested the complete  20060419.1 set already, i dont expect evil regressions
[12:28] <jmg> the word itself is pretty redundant by now
[12:29] <ogra> jmg, edu wouldnt highlight my client :)
[12:29] <jmg> ogra: ubuntu is your client?
[12:29] <ogra> xchat is
[12:30] <jmg> ogra:heehee
[12:30] <ogra> but it highlights on edubuntu, not on edu
[12:30] <jmg> ogra: gotcha
[12:30] <mdke> Manny, yeah, there is a bug open about that.
[12:30] <ogra> (like Riddell's highlights on kubuntu but not on k (i hope for him))
[12:31] <jsgotangco> korrect
[12:31] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:32] <sivang> Manny: the ones that are on the THinkPads for example?
[12:32] <Manny> sivang, yes
[12:32] <sivang> Manny: count me in, care to toss the link to it? :-)
[12:32] <jmg> fabbione: server should really use cfq and not anticipatory
[12:33] <Manny> sivang, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/fingerprint-authentication - we still need a wiki page
[12:33] <jmg> (scheduler)
[12:33] <fabbione> jmg: server uses deadline
[12:33] <Manny> all the tools seem to be available, just some packaging and GUI tweaking might be required
[12:33] <fabbione> jmg: actually.. it will
[12:33] <jmg> fabbione: mine is using anti
[12:33] <fabbione> jmg: the changes are already in git
[12:33] <fabbione> jmg: but for some reasosn Ben didn't get to upload before beta
[12:34] <infinity> Manny: Has someone actually written a driver for it, finally?
[12:35] <jmg> how do i change o use a different scheduler again
[12:35] <jmg> ?
[12:36] <fabbione> jmg: bootoption.. scheduler=
[12:36] <fabbione> jmg: http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=9175137ced8dbbd077064a1ad717d78c873a0cc6
[12:36] <pitti> Kamion: is it intentional that a server instal gets the -generic kernel, not the -server one? (on amd4)
[12:36] <fabbione> pitti: we just fixed it
[12:36] <Manny> http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_enable_the_fingerprint_reader (I linked it from the spec) claims that there is some sort of BioAPI interaction driver available. I don't know (yet) BioAPI
[12:36] <fabbione> pitti: we need to wait for the new -server images
[12:37] <pitti> fabbione: oh, I used the normal Ubuntu CD with the 'INstall a server' option
[12:37] <infinity> Manny: I know BioAPI, I also knew that the last time I looked (6 months ago?) no one had written a BioAPI driver for the scanner on the ThinkPads, so cool if they have.
[12:37] <fabbione> pitti: that won't work..
[12:37] <pitti> fabbione: not the dedicated server CD
[12:37] <fabbione> pitti: you need the -server images to get -server kernels
[12:37] <infinity> pitti: We don't include the server kernels on the normal CD, so..
[12:37] <jmg> shouldnt be deadline on server
[12:37] <fabbione> pitti: so for you it's normal that you get -generic
[12:38] <Kamion> infinity: ok, how're the builds going?
[12:38] <pitti> infinity: that's what I thought, but I wanted to cross-check
[12:38] <ogra> just to rant a bit ;)
[12:38] <infinity> Kamion: cron.daily for ubuntu is still running, as are the livefs builds for same.
[12:38] <mdz> infinity: yes, ubuntu and edubuntu
[12:38] <Kamion> infinity: just big-3?
[12:38] <Kamion> I have a table keeping track of all beta builds, y'see ..
[12:38] <jmg> (my opinion)
[12:39] <infinity> Kamion: Just big-3, yes.  I won't do ports until after all the primaries are done.
[12:39] <fabbione> jmg: like everything else is question of taste. That's why there is the bootoption.
[12:39] <Kamion> they can go in parallel
[12:39] <infinity> Kamion: (And I'm still trying to sort WTF blew up on vivies and castilla)
[12:39] <mdz> we don't really need to roll new ports builds if the last build was OK
[12:39] <Kamion> ok, I'll kick off edubuntu cron.daily in parallel, I think
[12:39] <infinity> Kamion: How parallel can you go before little is crushed under the load?
[12:39] <fabbione> infinity: do you want access to my beast to try?
[12:39] <Kamion> mdz: the ports builds will have the same memory leak ...
[12:40] <jmg> fabbione: i suppose anything other than as is good for a server :)
[12:40] <mdz> Kamion: it's only interesting on the live CD
[12:40] <sivang> Manny: seems rather experimental though :)
[12:40] <Kamion> infinity: I don't really want to push it above 2
[12:40] <infinity> Kamion: True, but ports users are far less likely to install a desktop anyway, so I'm less concerned.
[12:40] <Kamion> mdz: really? there are reports of huge memory leaks on desktop
[12:40] <mdz> and the ports live CDs are somewhat...academic
[12:40] <Kamion> normal installs rather
[12:40] <mdz> Kamion: sure, but they can upgrade
[12:40] <Kamion> true, but reviewers won't :)
[12:41] <Kamion> I suppose reviewers won't be using ports either
[12:41] <mdz> right
[12:41] <infinity> Kamion: ubuntu cron.daily finished.
[12:47] <Kamion> infinity: I take it livefs builds really can't happen in parallel ...
[12:47] <infinity> Kamion: Not a hope of that, really.
[12:47] <infinity> Kamion: Wouldn't speed them up much anyway.
[12:48] <dholbach> I guess http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/PICT0729.JPG means "try to burn dvd again"
[12:48] <jmg> nice
[12:48] <Treenaks> dholbach: it means 'Try again, if the problem persists, poke Kamion', afaik
[12:48] <Kamion> dholbach: can you get me a clearer screenshot?
[12:49] <Kamion> dholbach: and file it as a gfxboot-theme-ubuntu bug
[12:49] <_mvo_> i386/dvd server install hangs here with "Begin: Waiting for root file system... ..."
[12:49] <Kamion> _mvo_: somebody else reported that too, the bug is linked from Testing/Current
[12:49] <dholbach> Kamion: I can do that, yes.
[12:49] <Kamion> _mvo_: try non-server?
[12:50] <_mvo_> Kamion: that hangs too, but without a message :)
[12:50] <Kamion> dunno why they would be ...
[12:50] <Kamion> I think we'd better release beta without DVDs
[12:50] <_mvo_> not entirely, live-session works fine
[12:50] <infinity> Kamion: Okay, something seriously fishy is going on with livefs on hppa and sparc.  I can jerry-rig a single build on each that won't fail, but this needs investigating to make sure it doesn't blow up again.
[12:51] <infinity> Kamion: Somehow, it's managing to blow out my 2GB filesystem to 7+GB...
[12:51] <_mvo_> the normal install (without "quiet")  shows the same message
[12:51] <Kamion> problem is the DVDs take too long to build to sanely fix this in time :(
[12:52] <ogra> i think we delayed them in breezy as well
[12:52] <_mvo_> should I file a malone bug? or just note it on the wiki (its a bit little information except: hangs)
[12:52] <Keybuk> I've heard one or two other reports about fresh server (in general, not just DVD) consistently failing to mount the root filesystem
[12:53] <Kamion> _mvo_: there's already a malone bug, bug 40278
[12:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40278 in initramfs-tools "[Dapper Beta 20060419]  DVD Server Install within vmware fails to find root filesystem" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40278
[12:53] <Kamion> _mvo_: I have a feeling that the problem is that we're overwriting the d-i initrd with the casper initrd
[12:54] <dholbach> Kamion: does http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/PICT0730.JPG do?
[12:54] <Kamion> and then trying to boot it as if it were d-i
[12:54] <_mvo_> Kamion: oh, thanks. added it to the wiki. I guess dvd is probably post-beta then
[12:54] <jmg> kamion: How long is the dvd build?
[12:54] <_mvo_> anything I can do? I got dropped to a shell now
[12:54] <Kamion> jmg: long enough when you multiply it by three
[12:55] <dholbach> (I will re-check and re-burn before filing though)
[12:55] <Kamion> _mvo_: no, I think I understand the problem
[12:55] <jmg> Kamion: should have some kind of cache to build them fast
[12:55] <Kamion> jmg: thank you for your helpful comment
[12:55] <Kamion> (hint: it's still a lot of I/O)
[12:55] <jmg> Kamion: are the build scripts for them anywhere?
[12:56] <jmg> (hint: i want to see if i can help optimise this part of the beta)
[12:56] <dholbach> hrm, re-checking it works
[12:56] <Kamion> jmg: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/006245.html
[12:56] <jmg> thx
[12:57] <Kamion> jmg: there's already a cache or two in the build process; I know some things we can do to speed it up (backports from Debian's debian-cd svn), but they're too invasive for dapper
[12:57] <Kamion> I doubt anything short of those changes will yield a significant improvement
[12:58] <Kamion> because those changes directly address the slowest part of the process (apt-ftparchive)
[12:58] <jmg> ah, ok..
[12:58] <jmg> im interested anyway
[12:58] <jmg> going to be building a custom livedvd
[12:59] <Kamion> if it's live only, then the speed problems do not apply
[12:59] <Kamion> our DVDs are combination live/install
[12:59] <dholbach> ok this DVD was clearly busted, I re-burn it now
[01:00] <jmg> im thinking of a dvd of all the ubuntu lives
[01:00] <infinity> Kamion: Building ubuntu daily-live now.
[01:00] <Kamion> ta
[01:00] <Kamion> infinity: are you starting off edubuntu fs builds too?
[01:00] <jmg> +n
[01:00] <infinity> Kamion: They're building, yes.
[01:02] <infinity> Kamion: I'm going to completely reset the cloops on sparc and hppa (seems to be the only way to avoid this bug for now) and then do final builds for those livefses.
[01:02] <infinity> Kamion: Remind me to actually fix the bug some other day.
[01:03] <mdz> infinity: what's the bug?
[01:03] <infinity> mdz: Not sure yet, except that it's blowing out my precious 2GB filesystems to insane sizes.  I'll trace it later and figure out why.
[01:04] <infinity> mdz: It only affects ports anyway, so it's hardly critical, just annoying when create_compressed_fs goes -ENOMEM trying to process a 7GB loopback that should have been 2GB.
[01:04] <mdz> infinity: getting bigger going from loop->cloop?  that would be fairly insane
[01:04] <mdz> or the uncompressed filesystem is oversized?
[01:04] <infinity> The latter.
[01:05] <infinity> haven't traced it yet to see what's exploding it.  mke2fs or rsync, or maybe lamont's fancy block zeroing thingee.
[01:05] <infinity> Like I said, I'll fix it after beta. :)
[01:07] <fabbione> Keybuk: i noticed that mine was taking a bit longer to boot the first time.. but after the first time it was ok. something like depmod taking ages.. or along that line.. 
[01:07] <fabbione> Keybuk: but just the idea.. dunno what it was doing exactly
[01:09] <Keybuk> we don't do depmod on boot, though
[01:09] <fabbione> Keybuk: yes i know that.. 
[01:19] <pitti> Kinnison: oops, sorry, I broke your lock on Testing/Current inadvertedly
[01:19] <pitti> Kinnison: I saw the lock too late; feel free to trash my changes, it was simple enough
[01:20] <dholbach> pitti: I saw it just in time :-)
[01:20] <pitti> hm, it seems that Kinnison's lock timed out anyway
[01:26] <doko> infinity: thunderbird now proposes to open .odt documents using file-roller ...
[01:26] <infinity> doko: Yes, it needs the GNOME MIME patch from firefox, which I'll do post-beta.
[01:27] <doko> infinity: ok, thanks
[01:28] <Kinnison> pitti: s'okay, it timed out
[01:28] <Kinnison> pitti: aah so you said
[01:29] <lifeless> infinity: that fixes it
[01:29] <infinity> Kamion: ubuntu cron.daily-live completed, edubuntu cron.daily-live running.
[01:30] <infinity> lifeless: The evms udev prereq?
[01:30] <lifeless> yes
[01:30] <infinity> lifeless: Kay, cool, thanks for confirming that.
[01:31] <infinity> lifeless: I'll try to remember to make an upload as soon as this beta is declared final.
[01:32] <lifeless> infinity: anyone using evms with lvms for root will be unable to use the beta ... can we make an exception for that ?
[01:33] <Kamion> infinity: ta
[01:33] <Kamion> infinity: I'm running along behind you pushing stuff out to the mirror-private directories on releases
[01:33] <infinity> lifeless: It's been broken this long with exactly two people complaining about it, while I consider it a release-critical bug, I don't really see that as beta-critical.
[01:33] <lifeless> infinity: ok.
[01:33] <dholbach> Kamion: the bug with the picture was clearly a bad burn -it's fine now
[01:34] <mdz> looks like the build has made it out to cdimage; rsyncing
[01:34] <Kamion> dholbach: ah, ok. a bit concerning but ...
[01:34] <lifeless> infinity: your call. Only reason I mentioned it is that people generally try betas when they dont try 'head'
[01:34] <pitti> oh, espresso doesn't copy /etc/modules... /me files a bug
[01:34] <infinity> lifeless: Agreed, and had I been yelled at about the bug two days ago, I'd agree with you, but I'm not going to hold up the whole show now for this one. :)
[01:35] <mdz> lifeless,infinity: it's no blocker for the beta; feel free to add an entry to the Known Bugs section of DapperBeta though
[01:35] <lifeless> ok
[01:35] <dholbach> Kamion: i'll check dvd images and let you know, if stuff explodes.
[01:35] <Kamion> dholbach: dvd/install will explode; dvd/live should be ok as far as I know so far
[01:36] <Kamion> but, unless mdz overrules me, we're not releasing DVDs with this beta
[01:36] <fabbione> lifeless: i have root on lvm and it works
[01:36] <infinity> lifeless: Care to make the note in the wiki, since you know exactly how it breaks?
[01:36] <fabbione> lifeless: oh evms
[01:36] <mdz> Kamion: copacetic
[01:36] <Kamion> (I think I have the debian-cd patch now that's necessary to fix DVDs, but it's large and invasive. They've been broken since the introduction of SimplifiedLiveCD.)
[01:37] <lifeless> infinity: why conditional ?
[01:37] <Mithrandir> pitti: that's by design.
[01:37] <infinity> Since we only need a PREREQ on udev if you are using udev... People could have monolithic kernels and evms installed..
[01:37] <Keybuk> mdz: cromulent
[01:37] <Keybuk> infinity: why does evms need udev?  that sounds new
[01:37] <Kamion> not often I have to look up a word
[01:37] <mdz> (and no one noticed because they're so damn big nobody downloads them except for releases)
[01:37] <infinity> lifeless: evms doesn't depend on udev (for the above stated reason), and I'd prefer not to complicate that.
[01:37] <Keybuk> I thought evms made its device nodes itself
[01:37] <lifeless> infinity: probe for dm in the kernel
[01:37] <lifeless> Keybuk: it needs device mapper
[01:37] <pitti> Mithrandir: why that? bug 40311 btw
[01:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40311 in espresso "does not copy /etc/modules" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40311
[01:38] <Mithrandir> pitti: it copies the read-only file system.
[01:38] <pitti> Mithrandir: that breaks sound on ppc, and maybe some more things which rely on /etc/modules
[01:38] <Kamion> we do deliberately copy some other things
[01:38] <lifeless> Keybuk: this is the bug that we discussed on sunday
[01:38] <dholbach> can anybody in the german rosetta team fix the "wrong password" gksu string? somebody copied the 'Return' signs :)
[01:39] <Kamion> pitti: erm, what writes to /etc/modules at run-time to make sound on powerpc work?
[01:39] <pitti> dholbach: I can, do you have the URL handy?
[01:39] <pitti> Kamion: Mithrandir recently fixed that in casper
[01:39] <pitti> Kamion: it's more or less what the normal installer does as well
[01:39] <Kamion> oh, then it should be a casper espresso hook
[01:40] <Keybuk> infinity: it's a shame initramfs gets into a panic if a PREREQ is missing
[01:40] <Keybuk> life would be easier if you could PREREQ udev to mean "need that IF it's installed"
[01:41] <dholbach> pitti: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/gksu/+pots/gksu/de/+translate?offset=20
[01:41] <dholbach> pitti: or hang on... I can make "suggestions" as well
[01:41] <infinity> Keybuk: That's what I meant by conditional.  Scan the directory we're in, if it's there, make sure it runs first, if it's not, ignore the PREREQ.
[01:42] <infinity> Keybuk: I think that may be a sane way to go.
[01:42] <infinity> Keybuk: Given that a *hard* prereq should be satisfied with package dependencies, a *soft* prereq at runtime seems sane to me.  I think.
[01:43] <infinity> Keybuk: That would allow for this sort of situation, where we *might* want udev, *if* you use it, but if *not*, hey that's cool too.
[01:44] <pitti> dholbach: whoa, they also removed the markup and everything
[01:45] <dholbach> narf...
[01:45] <Keybuk> indeed
[01:46] <pitti> dholbach: fixing now
[01:46] <sivang> seb128: hmm, I think that due to hal lack of feature (seeing multi session CD volumes correctly) we get a mount bug in nautlis - when you double click it , it does get mounted with pmount, but there is not indication of this in the GUI. then you retry due to getting no GUI feedback, and get multiple error messages from remounting an already mounted volume...
[01:46] <dholbach> pitti: i removed the 'return signs' already
[01:46] <dholbach> or at least suggested it
[01:47] <seb128> sivang: there is some bug open about it, you can send a patch if you want
[01:48] <seb128> I don't have "multi session CD" to play with and enough bug to work on at the moment
[01:48] <lifeless> infinity: can you read the known bugs bit on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperBeta and see if what I've said is sane ?
[01:48] <pitti> carlos: oh dear, can we please have an 'ack this suggestion' button in the Rosetta interface?
[01:49] <pitti> dholbach: saw it, but due to this ^ it's hard to make use of it
[01:49] <pitti> it's faster for me to just remove them myself :(
[01:49] <carlos> pitti: for easy approval?, yes, that's the plan
[01:50] <infinity> lifeless: "using and lvm volume group"?
[01:50] <lifeless> s/and/an/
[01:50] <infinity> lifeless: Otherwise, looks fine.
[01:50] <lifeless> if you have evms and a dos volume this bug shouldn't happen
[01:51] <lifeless> its just the combination of evms + lvm -> needs dm -> falls over.
[01:51] <pitti> dholbach: 'k, fixed
[01:51] <lifeless> touched it up
[01:51] <lifeless> thanks
[01:54] <infinity> Kamion: edubuntu cron.daily-live finished, if you're not nervously hitting "ps ax" every 10 seconds.
[01:54] <Kamion> infinity: I already knew a while ago due to tailing the log file ;-)
[01:54] <Kamion> everything apart from ports is now done
[01:54] <Kamion> TESTING TIME
[01:54] <ogra> yeah
[01:55] <Kamion> at least, if my Grid Of Death is correct
[01:55] <Kamion> I'll sanity-check it in a bit
[01:55] <mvo> testing time? again ;) ?
[01:55] <infinity> Your Grid of Death should be spot on.
[01:57] <mdz> just finished an i386/vmware espresso install
[01:57] <mdz> SO MUCH FASTER
[01:57] <Kamion> make sure you have locales in the target system
[01:57] <Kamion> (last night's bug)
[01:57] <mdz> I will
[01:57] <Kamion> that /usr/lib/locale/ is non-empty
[01:57] <mdz> it's booting now
[01:57] <ogra> faster than what ?  (classic install or yesterdays espresso)
[01:58] <mdz> ogra: yesterday, before the langpack locales fix
[01:58] <mdz> though it is also loads faster than d-i
[01:58] <ogra> ah, cool
[01:58] <fabbione> i am going off IRC to test netinstall on amd64
[01:58] <ogra> yes, it *felt* like that yesterday already
[01:58] <fabbione> if there is anything urgent i have my mobile phone
[02:02] <Kamion> hmm, I just noticed that source CDs have been failing for ages
[02:02] <mdz> Kamion: /usr/lib/locale is correct
[02:03] <mdz> Kamion: surely not a big deal for beta
[02:03] <ogra> mdz, did you try with a non en locale?
[02:03] <Kamion> but it's failing due to apt-ftparchive segfaulting, which is kind of an arse
[02:03] <Kamion> mdz: I don't think so personally, just whining about the mail I'm going to get :)
[02:03] <Kamion>  dists/dapper/main/source/:/srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/debian-cd/tools/scansources: line 157: 30654 Segmentation fault      apt-ftparchive generate $PREFIX.generate-source
[02:04] <infinity> Kamion: ubuntu cron.ports_daily-live building now.
[02:05] <Mithrandir> I wonder why d-i's parted seems to mkfs a lot quicker than parted run from espresso.
[02:06] <Kamion> hmm, if I'm not mistaken, apt-ftparchive's dying on the same package every time
[02:06] <mvo> Kamion: do you have a backtrace?
[02:06] <mdz> Testing/Short OK on i386/vmware live+espresso-install
[02:07] <mdz> amd64 auto-resize espresso install in progress
[02:07] <Kamion> mvo: unfortunately not; the raw data's been removed. I'll get you one after beta
[02:07] <Kinnison> Kamion: if this is breezy's apt-ftparchive, I recommend asking elmo to downgrade the machine to hoary's
[02:07] <mvo> Kamion: thanks
[02:07] <Kinnison> Kamion: that one we know works
[02:08] <Kamion> ii  apt-utils                                      0.6.40.1ubuntu9                                APT utility programs
[02:08] <Kamion> I'll see if we can track down the issue first
[02:10] <Kinnison> Kamion: I'll admit that we gave up trying to diagnose and just went back to hoary's because it was segfaulting on drescher
[02:10] <highvoltage> well, it is getting kinda chilly
[02:10] <Treenaks> DC bandwidth? as opposed to AC bandwidth?
[02:10] <Kamion> could be Debian #334671?
[02:10] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 334671 in apt "Subject: apt - apt-ftparchive segfaults" [Normal,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/334671
[02:10] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: data centre.
[02:11] <mvo> Kamion: possible, I vaguely remember this one, it's fixed in dapper
[02:11] <Kamion> I'll put together a test source package at some point and ask elmo to build/install it
[02:11] <Kamion> or in fact I could just use a local apt-ftparchive, I guess
[02:12] <Kamion> ah, conveniently launchpad now provides access to all old source, so I can just point anyone who complains there
[02:12] <Kamion> though obviously it's not as convenient for some
[02:14] <infinity> Kamion: ubuntu cron.ports_daily-live is done, if you want to push that.
[02:15] <ogra> Kamion, is the "server" option still supposed to be in edubuntu ? i thought you closed the bug already
[02:15] <infinity> Kamion: Unless we're not publishing ports to releases.
[02:16] <Kamion> infinity: I don't think we're putting ports on releases; disk space reasons
[02:16] <Kamion> ogra: https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/38088
[02:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38088 in ubuntu-cdimage "edubuntu install menu should either hide "server" or have this option renamed to "minimal"" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[02:16] <infinity> Kamion: Right, then never mind. :)
[02:16] <ogra> Kamion, ah, ok
[02:17] <ogra> thanks (got no evo love today)
[02:17] <Riddell> Kamion: all 6 kubuntu CDs are good
[02:17] <mh21> pitti: Is it possible to retrieve http://localhost:631/admin/conf/cupsd.conf, and if yes, with which password?
[02:17] <infinity> FWIW, now that we have a dedicated ubuntu-server CD, I agree that 'server' should probably be renamed to 'minimal' on all the desktop CDs.
[02:17] <ogra> yay
[02:18] <pitti> mh21: web interface authentication is totally broken ATM, mind you
[02:18] <infinity> Would cause less confusion when people say things like "I did a server install, but didn't get the server kernel -- why?" and we have to explain the two CDs.
[02:18] <ogra> yep
[02:18] <mh21> pitti: ah, I knew there was sth broken regarding authentication
[02:18] <Kamion> Riddell: cool, good to know
[02:18] <ogra> in edubuntu its specially odd, sincde we default to a server install... but have that option there as well
[02:19] <mh21> pitti: This is used by a KDE cups tool for configuration
[02:19] <Kamion> infinity: shame about the name confusion that'll create with the minimal seed and ubuntu-minimal, mind you
[02:19] <Kamion> we could go back to 'custom', if sabdfl agreed ...
[02:20] <infinity> Kamion: True, but most people don't much care about ubuntu-minimal.
[02:20] <Keybuk> infinity: ooh
[02:20] <Keybuk> infinity: you just solved a bug for me, thanks <g>
[02:20] <infinity> Kamion: 'custom', 'small', 'no extra stuff', 'itty-bitty', I'm all for any of them. :)
[02:20] <Keybuk> SEE, IT EVEN CONFUSED ME!
[02:20] <Keybuk> (not that it takes much)
[02:21] <Mithrandir> infinity: "iz small"
[02:22] <infinity> 'lacking-in-gtk-bugs'
[02:22] <Mithrandir> amd64/install/erase full disk is ok.
[02:24] <mdz> Kamion: amd64 auto-resize in espresso worked flawlessly
[02:24] <Kamion> rah
[02:24] <mdz> ppc and amd64 espresso installs complete and doing first boot now
[02:31] <mdz> Kamion: snd-powermac doesn't get loaded by default on this powerbook; is that normal?
[02:31] <Mithrandir> mdz: espresso install?
[02:32] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes
[02:32] <Mithrandir> mdz: known bug.
[02:32] <mdz> ok, thanks
[02:32] <infinity> See above about espresso not copying /etc/modules.
[02:32] <Mithrandir> bug 40311
[02:32] <mdz> apart from that, everything is looking splendid
[02:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40311 in casper "does not copy /etc/modules" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40311
[02:32] <mdz> hmm, so that'll break printing as well
[02:33] <mdz> too bad that mousedev is loaded automatically now, or we would have found this much earlier ;-)
[02:33] <Mithrandir> heh :-)
[02:33] <doko> seb128:  is gnome_password_dialog_run_and_block supposed to work in a threaded program?
[02:33] <sivang> seb128: yes, when I see the workaround for HUB I'll try to come up with a patch. will look for that bug report, thanks.
[02:33] <Kamion> really? snd_powermac is the only thing that casper adds to /etc/modules
[02:33] <Kamion> if printing's broken, then it's broken on the live CD too
[02:34] <pitti> mdz: broken in which way?
[02:34] <seb128> doko: dunno, I've not used it, probably
[02:35] <mdz> pitti: lp won't be loaded
[02:35] <mdz> Kamion: printing on the live CD is a desperately endangered use case ;-)
[02:35] <mdz> printing to an attached printer, even
[02:35] <mvo> doko: what program is it?
[02:35] <mdz> or is lp automatically loaded now as well?
[02:35] <doko> mvo: gnome-cups-add
[02:35] <mdz> if so, I think /etc/modules can go away on my personal machines
[02:36] <pitti> mdz: oh, 'lp' is in your /etc/modules normally? it's not on the ppc live system for me, but I don't even have a parport there
[02:37] <pitti> mdz: but I know several bug reports which complain about parallel printers not being autodetected
[02:37] <Keybuk> lp needs to be manually loaded
[02:37] <Keybuk> the designers of the PC parallel port never thought to put device detection into the spec ;)
[02:37] <mdz> pitti: it is on i386
[02:38] <Kinnison> Keybuk: does loading lp induce parport_pc ?
[02:38] <Keybuk> Kinnison: yes
[02:38] <Keybuk> although parport_pc is usually loaded automatically
[02:38] <Keybuk> most modern PCs have the presence of a parallel port noted in their ISAPNP table
[02:39] <mdz> Kamion: what are the current build numbers?  I'm going to update Testing/Current
[02:39] <Keybuk> and what sr_mod is doing in there
[02:39] <infinity> mdz:  20060420.1/ for daily-live,  20060420/ for daily.
[02:39] <infinity> (for ubuntu)
[02:39] <Kamion> what infinity said
[02:40] <infinity>  20060420/ for live and daily for kubuntu.
[02:40] <infinity>  20060420/ for daily and  20060420.2 for daily-live for edubuntu.
[02:41] <Kamion> so, just so this channel knows, we're going to be calling them "desktop CD" (nee live) and "text-mode install CD" (nee install) from now on
[02:42] <Kamion> if anyone objects or has better suggestions that still emphasise that the live CD is what most desktop users will actually want to use to install with, now's the time to speak
[02:42] <infinity> So, filenames will change to dapper-{desktop,text}-$(ARCH).iso?
[02:42] <Kamion> something like that, but the filenames won't change until post-beta
[02:42] <infinity> Obviously.
[02:42] <Kamion> we're changing the HTML index text on releases.u.c for beta though
[02:43] <Mithrandir> We might want to put "legacy" in the non-live cd description to scare even more people over to espresso.
[02:43] <infinity> In line with the "custom" boot option, you could go with {desktop,server,custom}
[02:43] <infinity> Where the "custom" CD is the one with D-I and OEM installer options.
[02:44] <thom> Mithrandir: i think legacy is a bit excessive; there're still gonna be stacks of people who will use it as the first choice
[02:45] <Kinnison> windows takes so long to install
[02:45] <Kamion> we did think of custom but I thought it sounded a bit weak
[02:45] <Mithrandir> thom: true, but we do have users who have produced gems like "in the expert installer (i am a novice) [...] " so getting those to not use d-i, but espresso would probably be good.
[02:45] <infinity> Yeah, but you only have to install it once (per month)...
[02:45] <Kamion> and confusing versus actual custom installs
[02:45] <thom> Mithrandir: i think those people are beyond help
[02:46] <sivang> Kinnison: why are you installing windows for heaven's sake? :)
[02:46] <mdz> ok, Testing/Current is now flushed, please add your results (though not all at once, of course)
[02:46] <infinity> sivang: To test a resize install, I'd assume.
[02:46] <Kinnison> sivang: what infinity said
[02:46] <mdz> and whoever goes first, please fix the formatting I broke
[02:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: too late.
[02:47] <sivang> Kinnison: ah, well it worked fine on my new T43, only screwed IBM's rescue partition with their modified version of windows.
[02:47] <infinity> Sweet Jesus.  I haven't booted a LiveCD on my girlfriend's amd64 machine in ages.
[02:47] <infinity> It's.  Like.  FAST now.
[02:47] <infinity> Mithrandir: Kudos.
[02:48] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'm hoping we can make it quicker for dapper+1, though.
[02:48] <Kamion> I agree with thom that legacy seems a bit harsh, given that espresso is not a replacement for everything d-i does
[02:48] <Mithrandir> infinity: especially on high-end machine.
[02:49] <infinity> Mithrandir: I assume it's known that I get crap resolution on amd64 still?
[02:49] <Kamion> (and can't really be without, well, turning into d-i)
[02:49] <infinity> (I thought xresprobe was supposed to be working there now)
[02:49] <Mithrandir> infinity: it's not xresprobe's fault, it's X.  Presumably.  Can you dump your xorg.conf somewhere?
[02:49] <Mithrandir> infinity: or just check if you have decent resolution lines in there.
[02:50] <Kamion> freeflying: you should recheck what Karl already wrote before asking him to do something he's already done (in #40305) ;-)
[02:50] <pitti> mdz: ouch, completely fushed? there go 6 hours of testing... :/
[02:50] <Mithrandir> pitti: we always need to test the final images, though
[02:51] <infinity> Mithrandir: 'sec... Let me grab some stuff.
[02:52] <infinity> Mithrandir: What else do you want?
[02:53] <freeflying> Kamion: got it , thx
[02:53] <infinity> Mithrandir: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/live/
[02:53] <seb128> mvo: g-a-i complains about "The list of available applications is out of date" and wants to reload it but there is no internet connection set on that box ...
[02:54] <Mithrandir> infinity: oh, that's special.  I assume your card does > 1x7?
[02:54] <infinity> Mithrandir: well, yes, it's a GF6800GT.
[02:54] <mvo> seb128: right, could you file a bug about it please?
[02:54] <Mithrandir> infinity: can you run sudo ddcprobe from the console and put the output there too?
[02:54] <seb128> mvo: k
[02:54] <infinity> Mithrandir: And works fine in the dapper install currently on her machine at lovely high resolutions and refresh rates.
[02:55] <pitti> infinity: do you happen to use DVI?
[02:55] <Mithrandir> infinity: it seems to have written sync ranges which it shouldn't do by default, though.
[02:55] <pitti> infinity: hm, if it works on install for you, then it's something else, nevermind
[02:55] <infinity> Mithrandir: In the same directory.
[02:56] <infinity> Mithrandir: ddcprobe goes up to 1280x1024, which is still low, but higher than I got in my conf...
[02:56] <Mithrandir> infinity: what kind of monitor?
[02:56] <infinity> pitti: I don't use DVI, but I didn't say it worked on install (haven't reied a fresh install on this machine yet), just that it "works in her current install"
[02:56] <Mithrandir> infinity: it probably hates you because edid failed.
[02:57] <infinity> Mithrandir: Viewsonic P95f+, very PnP happy.
[02:57] <Mithrandir> pitti: my setup does edid just fine with DVI, I think it's your cable or monitor that doesn't like it.
[02:58] <Mithrandir> infinity: hmm, CRT, and unless it's utterly ancient it should do EDID just fine.  (And since it's a 19", it's not that ancient)
[02:58] <Mithrandir> infinity: could I have your Xorg.log?
[02:59] <Mithrandir> infinity: and does it work correctly in 32 bit mode?
[02:59] <infinity> Mithrandir: Sent.
[03:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: the monitor?  Of course.
[03:00] <Mithrandir> infinity: (rephrase) can you try with a 32 bit live cd?
[03:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: Oh. :)  Yeah, just have to burn the ISO.
[03:01] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'm particularly interested if ddcprobe works in 32 bit mode, since that means there are still bugs there I need to fix.
[03:02] <zul> heylo
[03:03] <Mithrandir> seb128: it'd be useful if the "permission denied" dialog in nautilus would offer an option "copy" if you're not allowed to move a file.
[03:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: good idea
[03:04] <doko> mvo, seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/gnome-cups-add-progress/ hints welcome. try adding a network smb printer
[03:05] <Mithrandir> seb128: want a bug about it or should I file it upstream?
[03:05] <seb128> Mithrandir: upstream would be nice, I don't think we are likely to distro patch it before dapper
[03:05] <mvo> doko: a debdiff might be nice
[03:05] <Mithrandir> sure
[03:07] <doko> mvo: see the ui_progress patch
[03:08] <fabbione> mdz, Kamion, Mithrandir: netinstall looks pretty good all over...
[03:08] <mdz> fabbione: cool, thanks
[03:08] <lamont> infinity: it's the zero-block step, just fyi
[03:09] <mdz> Kamion and I are working on the Beta announcement
[03:09] <fabbione> lamont: i did re-assign to you bug #40286 and bug #40288
[03:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40286 in linux-source-2.6.15 linux-image-2.6.15-20-itanium-smp "[ia64]  OOPS when accessing /sys/class/misc/efirtc/uvent" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40286
[03:09] <infinity> lamont: That sounds like the authority of a man who's seen this bug before. :)
[03:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40288 in palo-installer "fails to install" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40288
[03:09] <mdz> time to think back and remind ourselves about all of the cool stuff we've done
[03:09] <lamont> infinity: yeah - I tracked it about that far, and got lost... big images and all that.
[03:10] <lamont> then y'all switched to squashfs and it stopped mattering so much
[03:10] <fabbione> who is editing DapperBeta page?
[03:10] <mdz> NEW FEATURES WHICH SHOULD GO IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT EMAIL -> ME
[03:10] <fabbione> is -> is going to edit
[03:10] <Keybuk> mdz: boots in less than a week
[03:10] <lamont> fabbione: ack on those bugs
[03:10] <Kyral> mdz, GNOME 2.14?
[03:10] <Kyral> Deskbar Applet?
[03:10] <mdz> I'll trawl DapperBeta as well
[03:10] <doko> lamont: the hppa-cbranch stuff didn't show regressions
[03:10] <infinity> Damn, burned the wrong CD... <sigh>
[03:11] <lamont> doko: nice
[03:11] <Kyral> wait is this a general "Whats new in Dapper?" or a "Whats new in Beta"?
[03:11] <Mithrandir> mdz: all the cool stuff since breezy, I presume?
[03:11] <mdz> Kyral: they're the same
[03:11] <mdz> Mithrandir: yep
[03:11] <doko> mdz: OOo 2.0.2 finale release
[03:11] <Kyral> mdz: Off the top of my head
[03:11] <Kyral> GNOME 2.14, KDE 3.5.2(I think..), Espresso
[03:12] <Kyral> Deskbar Applet, improved boot times
[03:12] <mgalvin> fabbione: i was just getting set to finish it up this morning
[03:12] <Kyral> libxine-extracodecs
[03:12] <mdz> specifically stuff which is not in the spec PDF or in DapperBeta
[03:12] <Kyral> Oh I haven't looked at that
[03:12] <Kyral> lol
[03:12] <Treenaks> Kyral: Uh... have you tried gstreamer 0.10? :)
[03:12] <Kyral> Treenaks, Yah the LibXineExtraCodecs + GStreamer .10 is awesome
[03:12] <Kyral> but some people like Xine :D
[03:13] <Kyral> And Linux is, and always has been, about choice
[03:13] <Kyral> you don't like foo, use bar
[03:13] <Treenaks> Kyral: sure, but I think we should promote gstreamer more than xine ;)
[03:14] <Kyral> Treenaks, *shrugs*
[03:14] <Kyral> I'm of the opinion to give them both love :D
[03:14] <Kyral> They are both awesome backends
[03:14] <Mithrandir> mdz: more derivatives, including xubuntu, more arches.
[03:14] <Kyral> Xine is tried and true, and until .10, superior to GStreamer in every respect
[03:14] <Kyral> the Ubuntulooks theme!
[03:15] <Keybuk> Kyral: now, now, let's only celebrate the good things about dapper
[03:15] <Keybuk> *ahem*
[03:15] <Kyral> Keybuk, lol
[03:15] <mdz> fabbione: X.org is 7.0?
[03:15] <Kyral> Oh, Kerry in Kubuntu :D
[03:15] <Kyral> Kubuntu got a lot of good love :D
[03:15] <fabbione> mdz: yes 7.0
[03:16] <Kyral> But try to avoid XGL
[03:16] <Mithrandir> Xair, XGL and compiz? :-P
[03:16] <Kyral> I mean like, mention its in Universe, but defer all questions to #ubuntu-xgl
[03:16] <Kamion> GCC 4.0.3, glibc 2.3.6
[03:16] <Kamion> (under the hood)
[03:16] <Kyral> 2.6.16!
[03:16] <Kyral> Or wait..thats Arch lol
[03:17] <Keybuk> under the hood, I guess removal of hotplug is a feature
[03:17] <Kyral> Are the newest NVidia drivers in Dapper (wouldn't know, been using Arch..)
[03:17] <Kamion> we'll have a section for hardware support, so udev work probably belongs there
[03:17] <Kyral> This is kinda not a part of Dapper itself
[03:17] <Mithrandir> under hardware support "i2o working out of the box" would be nice.
[03:18] <Kyral> but maybe list the people who have become Members, MOTU, and Core-Dev during the release cycle
[03:18] <pitti> Mithrandir, Kamion: ppc/oem install, the created user's $PATH is wrong (just /bin:/usr/bin); known bug already?
[03:18] <Mithrandir> pitti: what does /etc/environment look like?
[03:19] <Kyral> Because we all worked hard, so it would be kinda nice to see something like that, a little recognition :P
[03:19] <Kamion> Kyral: I think it's in danger of becoming an Oscar speech
[03:20] <Kyral> Like aside from new features in Dapper, hi light like new Teams formed, include something about the new version of LP
[03:20] <Kamion> getting people to read the whole thing will be hard enough :)
[03:20] <Kyral> Kamion, ain't that what Mark kinda wanted for Dapper...being all polished?
[03:20] <Kyral> why not go overboard this once? :D
[03:20] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:21] <pitti> Mithrandir: just LANG and LANGUAGE
[03:21] <Kyral> I personally cannot wait for Edgy to start
[03:21] <Kyral> I love Mark giving us virtual cart-blanche :D
[03:21] <fabbione> Kyral: please.. we are all very stressed with Beta
[03:21] <Mithrandir> pitti: something's broken, then.  No idea what, really.  I can try the oem install after I've tested live.
[03:21] <fabbione> can we postpone these kind of discussions later...
[03:21] <Kyral> fabbione, huh?
[03:22] <Kyral> oh sorry...
[03:22] <Kyral> I haven't been contributing much because of school...sorry....
[03:22] <mgalvin> could anyone possibly move the DapperBeta screenshots to the main website
[03:22] <mgalvin> my ISP will start getting mad soon :-/
[03:23] <mgalvin> i can give you a list of the images
[03:23] <Kyral> Don't worry, I'll help relieve the workload for Edgy. Yea for SUMMER!!
[03:23] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'll file a bug then, shall I?
[03:23] <mgalvin> heno does not seems to be around atm
[03:23] <jsgotangco> Kyral: xorg bugs need love, you might want to check it now :D
[03:23] <Kyral> jsgotangco, I cannot
[03:23] <Kyral> for 2 weeks
[03:23] <Kyral> Finals :P
[03:24] <Mithrandir> pitti: please do so.
[03:24] <Kyral> All Ubuntu/Debian work is deferred until May 7th
[03:24] <Kyral> Then I will crack down and earn MOTU before 6.10 :P
[03:24] <infinity> Mithrandir: You can rest easy(ish)... I get exactly the same output with the i386 livecd.
[03:24] <fabbione> Kyral: -> #ubuntu-offtopic
[03:24] <infinity> Mithrandir: I'd still like to know WHY, but at least it's not amd64-specific.
[03:25] <Kyral> fabbione, sorry.....
[03:25] <Mithrandir> infinity: your monitor hates you, probably.
[03:25] <Mithrandir> mgalvin: I'm not sure who can change the website, but I've pasted your query on #canonical so somebody will hopefully attend mgalvin: I'm not sure who can change the website, but I've pasted your query on #canonical so somebody will hopefully attend to it soon.
[03:25] <Mithrandir> mgalvin: if not, tell me and I can put the images on people.ubuntu.com or something
[03:26] <infinity> Mithrandir: Maybe, but I don't recall this issue in breezy.
[03:26] <mgalvin> Mithrandir: cool, thanks... i will give them a few min to respond for now
[03:26] <mdz> fabbione: is there a page with more information about ubuntu-cluster that I can link to?
[03:26] <fabbione> mdz: no..
[03:26] <Mithrandir> infinity: hmm, weird.
[03:27] <fabbione> mdz: you can link to my office pics and get a laugh.. no.. really...
[03:27] <mdz> fabbione: ok, please write something for final
[03:27] <fabbione> mdz: do i need to prioritize it before or after fixing X? :P
[03:28] <mdz> fabbione: what are the 3 most interesting differences in the server kernel vs. the desktop kernel?
[03:28] <mdz> fabbione: after; you can do it the day before release if you want ;-)
[03:28] <pitti_> Mithrandir: bug 40328
[03:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40328 in Ubuntu "OEM install created user has wrong $PATH" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40328
[03:29] <Mithrandir> pitti_: I grabbed the bug since it's mine, thanks.
[03:29] <fabbione> mdz: no PREEMPT, 100Hz, deadline I/O scheduler as default.. bigger SMP support, more than 8 CPU, basic NUMA...
[03:29] <fabbione> mdz: i think... there might be more, but we can ask Ben as soon as he is awake
[03:29] <Beuno> mgalvin; I got about 1500gb of bandwidth pre-paid on a dedicated that I can burn, need some til you get those moved over?
[03:29] <fabbione> mdz: oh more than 4GB of RAM support...
[03:29] <mdz> installation to (and later booting from) USB devices now works, right?
[03:30] <Keybuk> should do
[03:30] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes.  At least did last time I tested it.
[03:30] <carlos> seb128, jdub: did you noticied that evolution has the spam and trash icons swapped?
[03:31] <Keybuk> I have a 1GB stick here, but atm it's taking ~4 hours to download a single ISO, so not sure I'll have that tested before you want to release beta
[03:31] <seb128> carlos: it has not on my box
[03:32] <seb128> carlos: you mean the icon meaning? or the order?
[03:32] <mgalvin> Beuno: my meger little server and cable connection is just a bit over worked atm... the thing is that each time the images move all the wiki links need to be changed... so i would prefer to only move them once ;)...
[03:32] <mdz> fabbione: any other server stuff I should mention?
[03:32] <mdz> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperBetaAnnouncement to see what's already there)
[03:32] <fabbione> mdz: i am trying to think
[03:33] <fabbione> infinity: HELP ME DUDE!!!!!!
[03:33] <mgalvin> Beuno: thanks for the offer i will let you know if someone from canonical doesn't get back to me soon
[03:33] <mdz> fabbione: installer-volume-management?
[03:33] <infinity> fabbione: You got the LAMP thing, right?
[03:33] <mdz> infinity: ooh, thanks for the reminder
[03:33] <rcaskey_> if the old install cd is now called the Desktop CD, is the old CD called the Server CD?
[03:33] <fabbione> mdz: that was in breezy already. we got that for ppc in dapper
[03:33] <seb128> carlos: dholbach is icon guy, if you are confused by icons ping him ;)
[03:33] <fabbione> mdz: i DID write it in the email
[03:33] <Kamion> rcaskey_: no, the live CD is now called the Desktop CD
[03:33] <fabbione> infinity: yes i did.. apparently mdz is not reading his emails ;)
[03:33] <mdz> fabbione: write what in what email?
[03:34] <rcaskey_> err sorry the old Live CD
[03:34] <janimo> seb128, do you know if evince plans another release before dapper and whether it eneters dapper if so?
[03:34] <mdz> oh, I didn't see that you had sent me email
[03:34] <Beuno> mgalvin: np,  I'll be hanging around here a while, so whenever you want
[03:34] <mdz> I was expecting IRC messages
 NEW FEATURES WHICH SHOULD GO IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT EMAIL -> ME
[03:34] <rcaskey_> so live -> Desktop, install->?
[03:34] <seb128> janimo: probably no new version no, why?
[03:34] <Kamion> rcaskey_: the install CD is now called the text-mode install CD unless we think of a better name; the server CD is something different, so we cannot call it that
[03:34] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:34] <mgalvin> Beuno: cool thanks! :)
[03:34] <janimo> seb128: so I know I do not update the gtk only patch now and do something with higher priority
[03:34] <rcaskey_> Kamion: Advanced Installation CD?
[03:35] <Keybuk> Kamion: "console" :)
[03:35] <mdz> fabbione: right, me here on IRC ;-)
[03:35] <rcaskey_> Kamion: well you need it for RAID & such so I think Advanced might indicate there is additional options available
[03:35] <Mithrandir> rcaskey_: "Advanced" is a terrible label.  It attracts people who shouldn't be attracted to it.
[03:35] <mdz> Keybuk: hmm, I like "console". sufficiently jargonish and scary to keep casual desktop users away
[03:35] <mdz> Mithrandir: right, we rejected it for that reason
[03:35] <fabbione> mdz: i read that as:  NEW FEATURES WHICH SHOULD GO IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT, please EMAIL -> ME 
[03:36] <Kamion> console> can do
[03:36] <Mithrandir> mgalvin: can you give elmo the URLs and he'll put them somewhere for you and give you the urls back?
[03:37] <infinity> Indeed, "Advanced" is bad.  We've already had people installing the "Server" CD, since they assumed (from Win2K experience, I guess) that "Server" has more stuff than "Workstation", who were then confused about where the GUI was.
[03:37] <mgalvin> Mithrandir: yup, i'll send them his way in just a sec
[03:38] <rcaskey_> Mithrandir: hrmm, Text-Mode Installation CD?
[03:38] <jsgotangco> infinity: i guess they assumed a graphical server setup?
[03:38] <Mithrandir> rcaskey_: something like that, yes.
[03:38] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: they assumed "server > desktop".
[03:38] <Mithrandir> (probably)
[03:38] <Kamion> mdz: some stuff in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes
[03:39] <Kamion> although not sure it's too useful
[03:40] <infinity> jsgotangco: What Mithradir said.
[03:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: sorry, I unassigned 40328 from you by accident
[03:40] <infinity> Kamion: Any plans to make espresso deal with clocks that aren't in UTC?
[03:40] <Kamion> mdz: vga16fb -> 640x400 at all worth mentioning?
[03:41] <Keybuk> infinity: given UTC=no breaks dhcp, probably bad ;)
[03:41] <Kamion> infinity: I've been meaning to add a checkbox for that, but it's relatively low priority at the moment
[03:41] <infinity> Kamion: (espressoing on my GF's machine where the clock is local, and when I pick the right timezone, I'm 10 hours out... Some sort of "clock is in local time" checkbox would be nice)
[03:41] <mvo> Mithrandir: I wonder if that gksu opens in the background problem is amd64 specific
[03:41] <infinity> Keybuk: Err, it does?  How?
[03:41] <Keybuk> infinity: dhcp stores leases in localtime
[03:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I reassigned it to me, unless you feel like tackling it.
[03:41] <Keybuk> dhcp runs before hwclock
[03:41] <Keybuk> so lease jumps 10 hours and gets expired
[03:41] <Keybuk> afaiui
[03:41] <infinity> Keybuk: Well, that's silly.  Why do we not run hwclock earlier then?
[03:41] <Kamion> infinity: feel free to add it to UbuntuExpress/ToDo if it's not already there, somewhere in the topmost section
[03:42] <Riddell> are we testing DVDs for beta as well?
[03:42] <Keybuk> infinity: hwclock reads a file in /usr, /usr isn't mounted until after networking (in case of nfs /usr)
[03:42] <Kamion> Riddell: no, DVD installs are busted and awkward to fix so we'll skip them for beta
[03:42] <mdz> Kamion: probably not
[03:42] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[03:43] <Mithrandir> mvo: maybe, yes.
[03:43] <mdz> Kamion: merging DapperReleaseNotes
[03:44] <Kamion> mdz: integrity check boot option?
[03:44] <Kamion> live CD persistence, perhaps, if we can figure out how to word it; could tack it onto the live CD bit in under the hood
[03:45] <rcaskey_> BTW, does fsck still run automatically after 30 reboots?
[03:45] <Keybuk> "The Live CD can use a USB memory stick to store changes you make, so that they aren't lost after a shutdown or reboot" -- something like that
[03:45] <Kamion> rcaskey_: yes, I still have a bug open about that
[03:46] <rcaskey_> it entirely moritifies users
[03:46] <mdz> Kamion: I think the integrity check is more functional than sexy, and we're getting pretty long here
[03:46] <rcaskey_> what's it filed against btw?
[03:47] <Kamion> rcaskey_: now is not really the time to advocate bug-fixing at me
[03:47] <Kamion> I have no idea offhand
[03:47] <Kamion> partman-ext3 maybe
[03:47] <rcaskey_> Kamion: I know, was just curious, thanks
[03:47] <Kamion> I also have many more bugs that are much more urgent than that one
[03:48] <mdz> Kamion: live CD persistance is fairly primitive at this point, probably not very interesting to non-developers
[03:49] <Kamion> ok
[03:49] <Kamion> I'm going to start preparing the release on little; please nobody run sync-mirrors for a while
[03:49] <Kamion> ogra: is Edubuntu good to go?
[03:49] <Kamion> janimo: is Xubuntu good to go?
[03:49] <Kamion> fabbione,infinity: is ubuntu-server good to go?
[03:50] <Kamion> Riddell has already said aye for Kubuntu
[03:50] <ogra> Kamion, amd64 still pending, i386 live/install and ppc live/install are good
[03:50] <fabbione> Kamion: i can't test iso's... rsync keeps hanging on me.. according to netinstall is good
[03:50] <Keybuk> fabbione: I think Mithrandir is sucking all the bandwidth
[03:50] <fabbione> it's about 12 hours that i can't finish one ISO
[03:50] <ogra> amd64 install is running (had a bad media again, else i'd be done already :/)
[03:50] <Keybuk> either that, or there's a data centre problem
[03:50] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I haven't rsynced for hours.
[03:50] <Keybuk> pings fall to huge numbers somewhere in level3
[03:51] <infinity> Kamion: I've been testing ubuntu ISOs... I can try to grab some server ones, but it won't be "quick".
[03:51] <Znarl> We have a huge amount of spare bandwidth in the DC.
[03:51] <Keybuk> Znarl: hmm, I'm getting high ping times and almost no rsyncness
[03:51] <fabbione> Znarl: amount of bw is not relevant if the link is flapping
[03:52] <elmo> fabbione: I already asked you to provide evidence of that that we can give to our ISP
[03:52] <infinity> Is it normal for debconf to complain about "DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked ..." when I try to install stuff on the livecd? :/
[03:52] <elmo> Keybuk: ditto for you, please
[03:52] <Keybuk> elmo: what kind of evidence would be most useful, I'll see what I can collect
[03:52] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I get 700KB/sec to the DC.
[03:52] <infinity> Kamion: ^^^
[03:52] <fabbione> elmo: i know, but i can't see why it hangs, otherwise i would have done that. and i did not point my finger to the DC
[03:52] <Kamion> infinity: you aren't running espresso, are you?
[03:52] <Mithrandir> (which is my link speed)
[03:52] <Kamion> infinity: look for stray debconf processes.
[03:52] <elmo> Keybuk: mtr/traceroute type stuff, if you're seeing packet loss
[03:52] <infinity> Kamion: I cancelled an espresso install...
[03:52] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i am getting 650K now.. the problem is that it hangs half way
[03:53] <fabbione> Mithrandir: not the speed
[03:53] <Kamion> infinity: it may not have quite cancelled out properly
[03:53] <infinity> Kamion: Ahh, kbd-chooser is still running.  Special.
[03:53] <Keybuk> I'm getting 60KB/s to the DC ... and 300KB/s to mirror-service
[03:53] <Kamion> mm, right
[03:54] <mdz> znarl: we'll address your bandwidth surplus shortly
[03:54] <Keybuk> now I'm only getting 30KB/s :p
[03:57] <infinity> Spiffy, even nvidia-glx works on the livecd.
[03:57] <Mithrandir> infinity: nice.  Do you get the full resolution that way?
[03:58] <infinity> Mithrandir: I get the full res with either driver... If I dpkg-reconfigure and manually select the resolutions I want.  They just don't get ddcprobed.  <shrug>
[03:59] <infinity> Mithrandir: Maybe they never did and I'm on crack.  It's something I can look at later.
[03:59] <Mithrandir> infinity: If you could remove the HorizSync and VertRefresh lines and see what you end up with, that'd be interesting.
[03:59] <pitti_> yay, finished rsyncing the new images
[04:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: Well, I'll still only end up with the modes listed in xorg.conf, no?
[04:00] <Mithrandir> infinity: you would, but your Xorg.log might have more interesting faff.
[04:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: (better refresh rates, of course)
[04:01] <infinity> Actually... That's cute.
[04:01] <mdz> znarl: is elmo around?  I'd like to confirm that the mirror links in the beta announcement are still appropriate
[04:01] <infinity> I'm only given the option of 85Hz, nothing lower.
[04:01] <infinity> ON her installed setup, I get a whole whack of options.
[04:01] <infinity> Something's definitely gone goofy with this lately.
[04:01] <ogra> infinity, i have the same prob here
[04:02] <ogra> (wrong resolution on all widescreen laptops)
[04:02] <Mithrandir> infinity: I blame xserver-xorg, then.
[04:02] <infinity> Yeah, I do too.  I'll have to have a look at that in the coming weeks.
[04:02] <Kamion> mdz: so are we going for "text-mode" or "console"?
[04:02] <mdz> install to USB is only supported by d-i, right?
[04:03] <ogra> infinity, Kamion and i talked about it, would probably be a good idea to just attach a monitor db and fall back to that one if ddcprobe fails
[04:03] <Kamion> mdz: actually not certain, but I suspect so for now
[04:03] <ogra> but thats no dapper material, we'd need to collect db data first
[04:03] <mdz> Kamion: text-mode
[04:03] <Mithrandir> mdz: it should, in theory, work with espresso too, but I wouldn't advertise it.
[04:03] <Kamion> ok
[04:03] <elmo> mdz: err, I was talking on #canonical when you said that...
[04:04] <mdz> elmo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperBetaAnnouncement
[04:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: it'd actually be interesting to implement EDID 1.3 and see if that fixes it.
[04:04] <mh21> pitti: Where are the local cups certificates in an Ubuntu system?
[04:04] <Beuno> this isn't correct, is it?   * Linux 2.6.15.6
[04:04] <ogra> Mithrandir, if we can get info out of the monitor that would indeed be better
[04:05] <pitti_> mh21: /var/run/cups/certs
[04:05] <mdz> Beuno: yes, it is, according to the changelog
[04:05] <mdz> BenC: confirm we are at 2.6.15.6?
[04:05] <infinity> Mithrandir: Yeah, yeah, I didn't notice until it was too late, that's all. :)
[04:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: white/blacklists are ugly.
[04:05] <Mithrandir> infinity: (to be fair, I've almost been bitten by it myself)
[04:05] <mh21> pitti: thanks
[04:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, but the monitor db from xfree 3.x was pretty good ... having a fallback would still be good 
[04:06] <infinity> mdz: Confirmed.
[04:06] <fabbione> mdz: yes we are
[04:06] <Mithrandir> ogra: you think it was good?  I think it was terrible.
[04:06] <Beuno> ok ok, just wondering, saw the wiki and I had read differently somewhere else (tracking down somewhere else)
[04:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, better than being left with a broken resolution ... especially since we install the broken setup now
[04:07] <mdz> Kamion: are we pre-published yet?
[04:08] <infinity> Kamion: I will be double-checking server in about 25 mins, according to wget.  I didn't realise no one had yet. :/
[04:08] <mdz> elmo: are those mirrors still best for announcements?
[04:08] <elmo> mdz: checking now
[04:08] <rcaskey_> Seems kind of odd to mention components not installed by default (Network Manager) in a release announcement, even for a beta.
[04:08] <Kamion> mdz: have been pre-published for ages
[04:09] <pitti_> okay, off to installing amd64
[04:09] <rcaskey_> Perhaps a "other packages newly available" section would be more appropriate
[04:09] <elmo> mdz: basically, I think they're fine - right now, they'll point to us, but I want them on there, so we can fall back to who they really are, once we've used our full BW
[04:09] <ogra> rcaskey_, how else is the user supposed to know that its on the CD but not installed
[04:09] <mdz> elmo: ok
[04:09] <elmo> mdz: I might also like to add fr.releases.u.c, znarl's just checking the paths match
[04:09] <mdz> elmo: everything cool on your end as far as announcing beta?
[04:09] <elmo> mdz: yeah
[04:11] <infinity> Kamion: Works for me..
[04:11] <infinity> Kamion: Stale mirror.
[04:11] <infinity> ?
[04:11] <dholbach> carlos: both icon problems (trash looking disabled/like-a-battery and evolution trash icon inscrutable) are already known and forwarded "upstream"
[04:11] <sladen> ogra: which question?
[04:11] <Kamion> ah, there it is now, just slow
[04:11] <elmo> mdz: scratch .fr, that list is fine - thanks
[04:11] <ogra> sladen, the fallback if the resolution cant be determined automatically
[04:12] <sladen> ogra: ah
[04:12] <ogra> xorgs postinst falls back to a list if it cant get the right values
[04:12] <mjg59> Has X been fixed so it actually chooses something other than vesa?
[04:12] <Kamion> ogra: Edubuntu publishing is next on my list ...
[04:13] <Kamion> ?
[04:13] <jsgotangco> \o/
[04:13] <ogra> Kamion, amd64 still lagging
[04:13] <ogra> the others are proven good
[04:13] <Kamion> mdz: what do you think, publish anyway?
[04:13] <ogra> it was fine with yesterdays iso
[04:14] <ogra> i really doubt there will be an amd64 specific regression
[04:14] <dholbach> ogra: just fyi: new dia release (final 0.95)
[04:14] <ogra> dholbach, ok
[04:14] <mdz> Kamion: anyway?
[04:14] <mdz> what's wrong?
[04:14] <Kamion> mdz: despite ogra not having tested amd64 yet
[04:14] <mdz> oh, edubuntu
[04:14] <Kamion> yes
[04:15] <ogra> Kamion, amd64 install is nearly through
[04:15] <mdz> if it's just a question of waiting until it's been tested, let's wait
[04:15] <Kamion> ok
[04:15] <ogra> live is written to disk and waiting for the machine to become free
[04:15] <jsgotangco> ogra: was able to install 19.1 if its any consolation
[04:15] <jsgotangco> (amd64)
[04:16] <ogra> jsgotangco, yes, thats what i meant with yesterdays isos i tested :)
[04:16] <Kamion> ubuntu and kubuntu are (nearly, in the latter case) published on little and pending sync to mirrors
[04:16] <mdz> announcement is ready to go
[04:16] <rcaskey_> how about changing the second sentence in the Announcement to "This Beta Release includes the Desktop CD which allows a user to boot Ubuntu off a CD or install it to their hard disk, as well as the text-mode installation CD for installations requiring X, Y, or Z."
[04:18] <mdz> rcaskey_: it's a bit long for being at the very start; the details of the new installer are at the top of the features section
[04:20] <mdz> rcaskey_: I've clarified it a bit
[04:21] <mdz> Kamion: ready when you are
[04:22] <rcaskey_> mdz: will you be mailing pressed text-mode cds or only Desktop cds?
[04:24] <mdz> rcaskey_: the latter
[04:25] <rcaskey_> mdz: "At that time, we will mail pressed Destkop CDs free of charge."?
[04:26] <Kamion> mdz: syncing out ubuntu install/live, kubuntu install/live, ubuntu ports install now
[04:27] <Kamion> and I would just like to say YAY FOR PRE-PUBLISHING
[04:27] <Kamion> INSTANT mirroring
[04:27] <mdz> rcaskey_: agreed, changed
[04:27] <mdz> (in the email; I'm not updating the wiki anymore)
[04:27] <ogra> wow, the CD tray just gave one of the cats a heart attack
[04:27] <mh21> Riddell: Can you test the patch at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12600? It should get cupsdconf basically working (means authenticating), although I'm not sure its a good idea to expose kde users to the functionality of the tool as long as it has problems with the configuration file syntax/splitting...
[04:28] <janimo> Kamion, sorry was away. yes xubuntu good according to tests so far
[04:28] <Riddell> mh21: this is against cups 1.2 rc 2?
[04:28] <Kamion> janimo: ok, thanks
[04:28] <mh21> Riddell: yes
[04:29] <Kamion> mdz: good to go as far as I'm concerned, unless you want to wait for edubuntu
[04:29] <Kamion> or ubuntu-server or xubuntu
[04:29] <rcaskey_> mdz: what do you think of "The Desktop CD combines most of the functionality previously contained in the install & live cds, allowing you to install Ubuntu onto your hard disk or use it directly from the CD." (last suggestion, I promise ;)
[04:30] <ogra> amd64 install is good to go
[04:30] <ogra> jumping on live now
[04:35] <Riddell> mh21: compiling away
[04:39] <shawn_work> ok ubuntu-cdimage, thanks, is Colin Watson here? #40278
[04:39] <ogra> mdz, Kamion, edubuntu is good to go
[04:39] <pitti> mdz: you don't want to wait for more complete Ubuntu test results?
[04:39] <shawn_work> 'Is this failure on booting from DVD, or on the first reboot into the new system after completing the installation?' => Answer: Failure on booting DVD
[04:40] <ogra> (but we urgently should look to get pcmcia support into the initramfs... its quite odd without over here)
[04:40] <mdz> pitti: we have pretty good coverage for beta at this point
[04:40] <mdz> we've tested the most common
[04:40] <shawn_work> I have updated the bug info
[04:40] <pitti> mdz: yes, if we take the previous CD version into account
[04:40] <mdz> as for all the corner cases...that's why we're releasing it to the world for testing ;-)
[04:41] <Kamion> shawn_work: I receive mail from your comments; there's no need to also tell me on IRC
[04:41] <pitti> I just added ppc/install, amd64/install looks good so far (but still takes a while)
[04:41] <shawn_work> Kamion: I guess, though IRC Is faster usually
[04:41] <pitti> but I didn't do a single espresso test with the latest images so far (I'm about to do that on ppc)
[04:41] <Kamion> shawn_work: I don't want it to be faster; I'm busy doing a beta release
[04:41] <Kamion> we decided to postpone DVD releases to after beta
[04:42] <shawn_work> ah ok, so thas a blocker
[04:42] <Kamion> shawn_work: but thank you for the extra information
[04:42] <shawn_work> i'll do some CD tests tonight on physical hardware
[04:42] <shawn_work> (if there's still some needed)
[04:43] <ogra> shawn_work, <mdz> as for all the corner cases...that's why we're releasing it to the world for testing ;-)
[04:43] <ogra> ;)
[04:43] <ogra> go ahead :)
[04:43] <shawn_work> sounds fine then
[04:44] <mgalvin> just a heads up DapperBeta set and moved to http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/dapperbeta (i just still need to update the image links which will be done soon)
[04:45] <mdz> mgalvin: that image at the top causes it to render poorly at 1024x768; it prevents the text from being placed next to the table of contents
[04:45] <mdz> mgalvin: I suggest just removing it
[04:46] <ogra> and the NM screenshot could use more colors (or less dithering as you like)
[04:46] <ogra> its a bit "overgiffed"
[04:46] <BenC> So it is safe to upload a new kernel now?
[04:46] <mgalvin> mdz: hmm... ok, i guess i'll just remove it
[04:47] <infinity> BenC: Wait another hour. :)
[04:47] <BenC> ok
[04:47] <rcaskey_> mgalvin: btw, icon has changed for update manager notifications
[04:47] <infinity> mdz: When the new kernel goes in, am I good to go for the new fglrx, BTW?  You didn't deny the UVF exception, just wanted me to wait til post-beta, right?
[04:47] <Kamion> infinity: any plans for those trailing ports builds?
[04:47] <dholbach> ogra: I think that's what byzanz did to it.
[04:47] <infinity> Kamion: ?
[04:47] <ogra> dholbach, hmm, can you adjust the gif parameters for it ? 
[04:47] <infinity> Kamion: You mean to test them?
[04:47] <infinity> Kamion: They're all built...
[04:47] <dholbach> ogra: I think not.
[04:47] <ogra> or is that hardcoded
[04:48] <ogra> meh ...
[04:48] <mdz> infinity: yep
[04:48] <Kamion> infinity: oh, didn't know you'd built all the live ones too
[04:48] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, ubuntu-live anyway.  Did we want kubuntu?
[04:48] <dholbach> ogra: I guess that's to make it not too big for web use.
[04:48] <mgalvin> rcaskey_: yea, there are two others i need to fix as well
[04:48] <mdz> announcement is away
[04:48] <dholbach> YAY!
[04:48] <mgalvin> is there away to force the restart notification to pop up?
[04:48] <Mithrandir> mdz: does that mean we've released? :-)
[04:48] <infinity> Kamion: I'm not fussed on having kubuntu-live for ports.
[04:48] <infinity> Kamion: But I'm not sure it's my call. :)
[04:48] <Kamion> infinity: I can not bother releasing it, certainly
[04:48] <ogra> dholbach, yep, the deskbar one looks fine to me, its just the NM one, i guess due to the differen shades of brown
[04:49] <Mithrandir> \o/
[04:49] <dieman> http://mirror.cs.umn.edu/ubuntu-releases/dapper/ is live too now
[04:49] <mdz> odd, isn't in the list archives yet
[04:49] <ogra> PARTY !!
[04:49] <dholbach> let's all upload random crack again!
[04:49] <dholbach> wooooo! :)
[04:49] <wasabi> Would if I could. ;)
[04:49] <Kamion> some of us still have to babysit publish-release ;)
[04:50] <ogra> wasabi, fix our account then :)
[04:50] <wasabi> Looks like I was never added to ubuntu-dev on LP
[04:50] <mdz> Mithrandir: is it normal for there to be a delay between approving a moderated message and it appearing in the archives?
[04:50] <dholbach> ogra: wasabi signed up for ubuntu-dev
[04:50] <ogra> Kamion, any reason you cant do that in a relaxed drunken partymood ? :)
[04:50] <ogra> dholbach, he shouldnt need to, he's MOTU since ages ;)
[04:51] <Kamion> ogra: as per usual, I seem to be having to hack publish-release on the fly
[04:51] <wasabi> ogra: Yeah but nobody actually added me to the group
[04:51] <wasabi> mdz: I think hitting join to ubuntu-dev on LP has sent you an email. :0
[04:51] <ogra> Kamion, meh ... so its more than just watching it 
[04:51] <infinity> Hrm.
[04:51] <Kamion> yes, ports releases are being arsey
[04:51] <infinity> Kamion: What's the install regex for LAMP?
[04:51] <mdz> er
[04:51] <infinity> Kamion: It didn't seem to install PHP here...
[04:52] <Kamion> d-i     pkgsel/install-pattern  string ~t^ubuntu-standard$|~n^apache2$|~n^php5-mysql$|~n^libapache2-mod-php5$|~n^mysql-server$
[04:52] <fabbione> infinity: the same regexp you gave to Kamion :)
[04:52] <jsgotangco> LTS nice
[04:53] <ogra> oh, no mention of edu/kubuntu ?
[04:53] <infinity> Kamion: Argh, I think I probably specified apache2-mpm-prefork, and that got turned into apache2.  That would explain it.
[04:54] <fabbione> infinity: what have you done????
[04:54] <infinity> Kamion: apache2 is pulling in -worker by default, php5 needs -prefork, aptitude is apparently too retarded to understand that -prefork could satisfy both deps, so I'm getting -worker and no php.
[04:55] <fabbione>   * Turn-key LAMP installation
[04:55] <infinity> Kamion: Other than that little oops (which we can resolve later), amd64/server is fine.  Got the right kernel installed, etc.
[04:55] <fabbione> SCORE
[04:55] <tseng> fabbione: i was just noticing the same
[04:55] <fabbione> tseng: ain't my fault
[04:55] <Mithrandir> fabbione: got 2.6.15-20-server for i386/server
[04:55] <fabbione> Mithrandir: cool thanks
[04:56] <fabbione> Kamion: -server images seem to be good...
[04:56] <fabbione> ppc can wait to be tested...
[04:56] <infinity> PPC doesn't have crazy kernel issues, so it should be fine, if it boots at all.
[04:57] <infinity> Kamion: I'll bug you about how we can fix that in a day or two, after the beta glow has worn off.
[04:57] <Kamion> infinity: yep, sure
[04:57] <fabbione> i wonder why it did work on flight-6
[04:57] <ogra> crap, so i need my own announcement now ?
[04:57] <fabbione> some people did report it working on
[04:57] <fabbione> ok
[04:58] <ogra> i thought the announcements should be like the flight6 one from now on  :((
[04:58] <infinity> Some people clearly got lucky.  Or I got unlucky.  I dunno.
[04:58] <infinity> But it's easy enough to fix it so it will definitely always work right.
[04:58] <infinity> You just tell pkgsel *exactly* what you want, so it doesn't have to resolve deps and make stupid decisions.
[04:59] <infinity> And stupid decisions are something our packaging tools excel at on occasion.
[04:59] <fabbione> infinity: that's what i did the first time and got bashed for that...
[04:59] <infinity> Well, in this case, we'll just add one decision for it.
[04:59] <infinity> Others should work out okay on their own.
[05:00] <mdz> fabbione: it's undocumented anyway, isn't it? ;-)
[05:00] <fabbione> mdz: EXACTLY!
[05:00] <rcaskey_> btw, BitTorrent is a wikilink that goes nowehre on the dapperbeta page
[05:00] <fabbione> it's written absolutely nowhere.. like the RELEASE ANNOUNCMENT or.. hmm the GFXBOOT!
[05:01] <mdz> heh, didn't realize it was on gfxboot
[05:01] <fabbione> it is
[05:01] <mdz> I believe you
[05:01] <infinity> Well, gfxboot doesn't say "LAMP includes PHP", so maybe it's Linux, Apache, MySQL, and Party Hats.
[05:01] <mdz> Perl!
[05:01] <Keybuk> Python!
[05:01] <dieman> um
[05:01] <fabbione> *cough*bull shit*cough*
[05:01] <infinity> mdz: Well, sure, we include both perl and python, but neither mod_perl nor mod_python. :)
[05:02] <dieman> pretty awesome ruby on rails!
[05:02] <infinity> I'll stick with Party Hats, if anyone asks.
[05:02] <mdz> Keybuk: who writes web applications in python? :-P
[05:02] <mdz> *cough*
[05:02] <infinity> mdz: moin and viewcvs come to mind (because they're the only two I've ever used..)
[05:02] <ogra> hwdb and popcon are in python :)
[05:02] <Keybuk> mdz: you can't keep on pretending Launchpad doesn't exist now, you know
[05:03] <infinity> Oh, yeah, and that launchpad thing. ;)
[05:03] <ogra> pfft launchpad 
[05:03] <dieman> plone is pretty good :)
[05:03] <pitti> mdz: would now be a good time for asking you about upgrading cups in dapper? or is there too much champagne in your head already? :)
[05:03] <Keybuk> heh, beta is out, and my FIRST iso download is still only 80%
[05:03] <Keybuk> *sigh*
[05:03] <fabbione> Keybuk: lucky you
[05:04] <fabbione> mines are not here at alll
[05:04] <infinity> Keybuk: Rock on. :)
[05:04] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: you know, if you tested images a bit more often you'd get to join in on the fun.
[05:04] <pitti> I just managed to break espresso yet again :)
[05:04] <dieman> btw, mirror.cs.umn.edu has got the isos if release is going slow
[05:04] <mdz> pitti: champagne! what a great idea
[05:04] <ogra> pitti, do we need a rebuild ? 
[05:04] <infinity> Keybuk: I actually burned and tested 4 of them... Which I figured I wouldn't get around to, since I live in .au and all.
[05:04] <fabbione> Kamion: if pitti.user() die;
[05:04] <Gloubiboulga> ++
[05:04] <dieman> ahh, i guess us.releases has em too this time
[05:04] <dieman> yay
[05:04] <mdz> dieman: *.releases is pointing to releases atm
[05:05] <fabbione> dieman: we have 10GB now :)
[05:05] <fabbione> or something like that
[05:05] <dieman> ahh
[05:05] <dieman> yeah, i only have 1GB
[05:05] <pitti> ogra: petunia bowl: "Oh no, not again!"
[05:05] <Surak> seb128: thanks for your attention regarding bug #28507 - just replied to it, but I don't know if emails keep going after a bug is closed.
[05:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28507 in librsvg "librsvg2-common not installed, breaks SVG rendering" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28507
[05:05] <ogra> pitti, :)
[05:05] <pitti> ogra: no, the sky isn't falling, nevermind
[05:05] <seb128> Surak: yeah they do
[05:05] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I test them quite a bit -- I foolishly wiped the downloaded isos a week or so ago though
[05:05] <Keybuk> Micksa: so had to rsync from scratch
[05:06] <seb128> Surak: apps which need it should have a Depends on it, if they don't that's a bug
[05:06] <dieman> fabbione: nice, i get peak about 10MB/sec from releases
[05:06] <pitti> Keybuk: you should consider jigdo for the install CDs; it's magnitudes more efficient
[05:06] <seb128> Surak: having ubuntu-desktop and some apps depending on it should assure than almost every has it though
[05:06] <fabbione> dieman: about 2MB here...
[05:06] <fabbione> here as in .it
[05:07] <dieman> fabbione: but i still get 30MB/sec+ from my local mirror :)
[05:07] <Surak> seb128: yeah. 
[05:07] <fabbione> dieman: well norma
[05:07] <fabbione> +l
[05:07] <dieman> fabbione: yah
[05:07] <dieman> 60MB/sec when its cached
[05:07] <Keybuk> pitti: it wouldn't help when it's the data centre network sulking :p
[05:07] <dieman> disk is slow
[05:09] <pitti> Keybuk: but you can scan /var/cache/apt/archives and CDs from other arches (to get arch:all packages) and so on, and you can use another mirror
[05:10] <pitti> Keybuk: so you can circumvent the DC completely :)
[05:10] <Keybuk> pitti: I guess; it's easier just to wait it out I suspect though
[05:10] <Keybuk> the problem wasn't around ~last week
[05:10] <pitti> Keybuk: sure, I just wanted to point out the alternative, since relatively few people seem to be aware of it
[05:11] <seb128> Keybuk: hi. my laptop still has that network issue: it doesn't get an IP automatically (need to run dhclient by hand). The laptop has eth0 beeing a realtek 8139 card and an eth1 ipw2200, after boot ifconfig only lists eth0 and lo as up, running "sudo dhclient" configures eth1 correctly ... is that known? are you interested to debug it? :)
[05:11] <Keybuk> seb128: UTC=no and /usr on a different partition ?
[05:12] <seb128> Keybuk: nothing of that, stock dapper candidate install
[05:12] <seb128> and liveCD doing the same
[05:12] <Keybuk> no idea then
[05:12] <dieman> Keybuk: how does UTC= affect things?
[05:12] <Keybuk> pitti knows dhclient better than I
[05:12] <Keybuk> dieman: dhclient writes leases in localtime, or something
[05:12] <dieman> Keybuk: ahh
[05:13] <seb128> Keybuk: that laptop was working with hoary
[05:13] <Keybuk> seb128: what's in /var/run/network/ifstate ?
[05:13] <Keybuk> you said eth1 isn't UP ?
[05:13] <seb128> broken with breezy (d-i and system not listing the cards the same way or something but you said that was not something to change before 5.10)
[05:13] <seb128> ifconfig lists eth0 and lo only
[05:13] <Keybuk> does ifconfig -a list eth1?
[05:14] <seb128> dmesg | grep eth only mentions eth0
[05:14] <seb128> let me restart, I've run dhclient on it now, a min
[05:14] <Keybuk> ok
[05:14] <Keybuk> restart, and then we'll run a few commands on it and check what it's doing
[05:16] <seb128> Keybuk: restart done
[05:16] <Keybuk> ok
[05:16] <Keybuk> do you have a wired network or something on it?
[05:16] <seb128> ifconfig -a lists it
[05:16] <ogra> seb128, i have the same problem here, but was told its because pcmcia isnt in initramfs ... 
[05:16] <Keybuk> ok, eth1 is in ifconfig -a ?
[05:16] <Keybuk> check /etc/network/interfaces
[05:16] <seb128> I've eth0 being a realtek 8139 card with no wire on it
[05:16] <Keybuk> confirm it has auto eth1 / inet eth1 dhcp
[05:16] <seb128> and eth1 ipw2200 wireless
[05:17] <seb128> /etc/network/interfaces has only lo and eth0
[05:17] <Keybuk> that's the problem then
[05:17] <Keybuk> whatever wrote that (installer/espresso) wrote it wrong
[05:18] <Keybuk> what's in /etc/iftab ?  just eth0 or both ?
[05:18] <seb128> sec, it's rebooting again :p
[05:18] <Keybuk> which did you install with?  install or live?
[05:18] <carlos> pitti: ping
[05:19] <seb128> Keybuk: liveCD and espresso, but network doesn't work on the liveCD neither
[05:19] <Beuno> slashdot story about to hit the front page about beta...
[05:19] <Keybuk> Kamion: ping
[05:19] <pitti> Keybuk: do I? :) I actually know very little about the dhcp guts, I just get the bugs assigned (I'll look into them at some time, promised)
[05:19] <pitti> hey carlos 
[05:20] <Keybuk> pitti: you touch it more than I do <g>
[05:20] <carlos> pitti: I'm fixing rosetta's translation domains
[05:20] <pitti> granted
[05:20] <seb128> Keybuk: /etc/iftab has a "eth1 mac ..."
[05:20] <Keybuk> seb128: ok
[05:20] <Keybuk> seb128: then it sounds like the "netcfg only writes the interface it cared about" bug
[05:20] <Keybuk> and I guess espresso doesn't bother asking that question, and only ever configures eth0
[05:20] <Keybuk> (random guess)
[05:20] <seb128> the bug is before espresso
[05:20] <seb128> liveCD has no network
[05:20] <carlos> and I found a package that has an specific .pot file for the .desktop translations, are we able to handle that with the patch to support .desktop files with language packs?
[05:21] <seb128> so whatever is used to set the liveCD environment has the bug too
[05:21] <Keybuk> boot the live CD on it, and check that's /etc/network/interfaces
[05:21] <carlos> In fact, I think KDE packages use the same approach
[05:21] <pitti> carlos: do you have 15 minutes? then my workstation should have finished installing, and I can leave my flatmate's laptop with only a live system :)
[05:21] <seb128> Keybuk: doing that now
[05:21] <Keybuk> casper may only write eth0 because it relied on n-m
[05:21] <carlos> pitti: sure, ping me when you are ready
[05:21] <Kamion> Keybuk: I'd really rather not try to think about this now
[05:21] <Keybuk> this is why ifupdown sucks
[05:21] <Keybuk> Kamion: sleep? :p
[05:21] <Kamion> Keybuk: or something
[05:21] <Keybuk> it should default to dhcp
[05:21] <pitti> carlos: erm, yes, as long as the desktop file states the correct domain, that should be fine
[05:22] <carlos> pitti: and which domain is that one? ;-)
[05:22] <pitti> carlos: you mean a package doesn't use gettext in general, and we just added a pot to catch the .desktop translations?
[05:22] <carlos> well, no, I mean, a package uses gettext (at least that's what I think it does) but has another .pot file with the .desktop translations
[05:22] <pitti> carlos: which package do we talk about? I remember having changed some package to work like this, but I forgot which
[05:22] <carlos> instead of using the 'default' .pot file
[05:23] <pitti> carlos: hm, that's indeed unusual
[05:23] <carlos> pitti: skim
[05:23] <carlos> pitti: it has a po/desktop.pot
[05:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: casper doesn't write an iftab file at all
[05:23] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: not iftab, /etc/network/interfaces
[05:24] <carlos> pitti: and po/skim.pot
[05:26] <seb128> Keybuk, Mithrandir: /e/n/i only lists lo and eth0 on the liveCD too
[05:26] <Mithrandir> seb128: what kind of interface is eth1?
[05:26] <seb128> ipw2200
[05:27] <pitti> carlos: hm, I'd call that a bug
[05:28] <Mithrandir> seb128: I guess it doesn't show up in the initramfs, then, and therefore casper doesn't write /e/n/i for it.
[05:28] <pitti> carlos: and KDE doesn't yet have patches for supporting langpacks for .desktop files anyway
[05:28] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: obviously not
[05:28] <Keybuk> needs firmware
[05:28] <Mithrandir> seb128: this used to work Just Fine when we had NM. :-P
[05:28] <Keybuk> no firmware in da initramfs
[05:28] <carlos> pitti: should I file bugs then?
[05:28] <pitti> carlos: so can you please file a bug against skim to clean that up and ignore that pot file for now?
[05:28] <seb128> Mithrandir: I know, I blame Keybuk ;)
[05:28] <pitti> carlos: you can read my mind :)
[05:28] <carlos> ok
[05:28] <Lure> Keybuk: would you be fine if we patch /etc/init.d/networking to support "status" option
[05:28] <carlos> :-P
[05:28] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: actually it wouldn't work
[05:28] <Keybuk> Lure: nope
[05:28] <lucas> hi
[05:28] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: oh?
[05:29] <carlos> pitti: should I file bugs for KDE packages too?
[05:29] <carlos> and missing .pot files?
[05:29] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: would still get copied to the installed filesystem without "auto eth1" so the installed system (which has no n-m) wouldn't bring it up
[05:29] <pitti> carlos: you mean other packages which look like that?  if it's just a handful, sure
[05:29] <lucas> who is dealing with ubuntu's bittorrent tracker ?
[05:29] <carlos> doko: btw, now that the beta is released, are you going to upload a new OO.org version?
[05:29] <pitti> carlos: if all packages have that, then we shold rather find a generic solution (in cdbs' kde.mk maybe)
[05:29] <carlos> pitti: ok
[05:29] <Keybuk> Lure: users shouldn't run init scripts; and networking isn't the init script that brings up network interfaces anyway
[05:30] <Keybuk> Lure: also no other init script has status
[05:30] <Lure> Keybuk: true, it looks like I am still used from rpm based systems...
[05:30] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: so it's an udev bug because udev doesn't do anything sensible with interfaces it doesn't know about.  As in, doesn't have a sensible default policy. :-P
[05:31] <Lure> Keybuk: will fix powersave for bug 40262
[05:31] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: that's an ifupdown bug
[05:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40262 in powersave "powersaved doesn't restart services set in SUSPEND2RAM_RESTART_SERVICES" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40262
[05:31] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: arguably, yes.
[05:31] <Keybuk> and can be filed along with "I want to replace ifupdown with something less stupid in dapper+1"
[05:31] <seb128> is that something we can fix for dapper?
[05:31] <seb128> Keybuk: I think you already said that previous cycle :p
[05:32] <Keybuk> Lure: powersave should iterate the up interfaces and ifdown them ... then when it comes back ifup them
[05:32] <Keybuk> seb128: alas, there is but one of me
[05:32] <Keybuk> so much crack, so little time
[05:32] <mdz> lucas: something wrong with the tracker?
[05:32] <mdz> lucas: the software is pretty unreliable in general, not too much we can do about it usually
[05:32] <Lure> Keybuk: thanks - will look in fixing this properly
[05:33] <Keybuk> Lure: look at acpi-support which does exactly this
[05:34] <seb128> Keybuk: so that's likely than any laptop with a wired card and an ipw one will have that issue (ie: network not working out of the box)?
[05:34] <Keybuk> sounds like it
[05:34] <seb128> bah
[05:34] <lucas> mdz: no, I mean: who should I contact to make my case about doing some log analysis
[05:34] <Keybuk> there's a trivial hacky fix :)
[05:34] <doko> mdz, Kamion: is the archive unfrozen? carlos want to have some fun with translations
[05:34] <Keybuk> casper could always write eth<n+1> just in case ;p
[05:34] <Kamion> doko: as far as I'm concerned yes
[05:34] <mdz> doko: yep
[05:35] <carlos> doko: let's give some work to Rosetta then :-P
[05:35] <seb128> Keybuk: better fix: install n-m :)
[05:35] <Keybuk> seb128: n-m would have to work, first
[05:36] <doko> carlos: you'll get five new indian languages as a bonus ;-P
[05:36] <ogra> Keybuk, thats only one line thats missing in your postinst
[05:36] <seb128> Keybuk: it does work on that laptop :p
[05:36] <mdz> yesterday I plugged in a crossover cable to get a log off of this test laptop with an unsupported wireless chipset
[05:36] <ogra> seb128, not using icon cache ? 
[05:36] <Keybuk> ogra: ... ?
[05:36] <pitti> seb128: which file do I have to kill again to make nm-applet work?
[05:36] <mdz> n-m thought it would be clever to down my wireless interface when I did that
[05:36] <ogra> Keybuk, run dh_iconcache as dholbach advised yesterday
[05:36] <seb128> pitti: /usr/share/icons/hicolor/*cache*
[05:37] <Keybuk> ogra: I was referring to the general state of n-m
[05:37] <Keybuk> not just that one bug :p
[05:37] <ogra> ah
[05:37] <Keybuk> ie. that n-m works provided you don't touch your laptop
[05:37] <ogra> yes
[05:37] <pitti> seb128: I looked in /var, seemed more logical to me :)
[05:37] <Keybuk> if you try to do anything creative, like use it, n-m finds some interesting way to stop you in your tracks
[05:37] <seb128> pitti: yeah, you could argue about that being a bug :)
[05:37] <thom> Keybuk: it works absolutely fine for me
[05:37] <thom> *shrug*
[05:37] <Keybuk> thom: it works provided you have an X40
[05:38] <thom> i don't ;-)
[05:38] <Keybuk> or one of a very limited number of wireless/wired chipset combinations
[05:38] <ogra> thom, it doesnt with my airport extreme 
[05:38] <seb128> I don't really care about n-m installed or not, but having to run dhclient by hand really sucks
[05:38] <ogra> neither with my orinoco pcmcia card
[05:38] <thom> Keybuk: what you mean is ipw* i guess
[05:38] <seb128> I know what to change, but it doesn't "just work" for luser
[05:38] <Keybuk> thom: the wired chipset affects it too, sadly
[05:38] <Keybuk> and then you have the joy where n-m gets confused, and needs to be killed
[05:38] <Keybuk> or the fact n-m doesn't understand "stop! I want to configure a static IP!" etc.
[05:39] <ogra> seb128, ++
[05:39] <thom> surely it only needs to be able to be mii'd?
[05:39] <dholbach> Keybuk: it doesn't work nicely for me on an x40
[05:39] <dholbach> i have to run dhclient by hand every now and then too
[05:39] <Mithrandir> dholbach: it works nicely for me on an x40.
[05:40] <Mithrandir> except when the driver decideds that my neighbour's AP is stronger than mine and I have to do sudo iwconfig eth1 essid s12
[05:40] <Keybuk> seb128: I agree, iz casper bug :)
[05:40] <Keybuk> heh, I have the problem that my neighbour's AP has WPA
[05:40] <Keybuk> so every time I start n-m, it asks me for my keyring password
[05:40] <Keybuk> even though I've never, ever, EVER, told it to connect to that network
[05:41] <dholbach> Keybuk: same here
[05:41] <dholbach> can we rollback to 0.5? *run* :-p
[05:41] <Keybuk> and it gets very very upset if I don't give it the password
[05:41] <Keybuk> to "needs to be killed" degrees, usually
[05:42] <mjg59> (Or we could, uh, try to fix the bugs)
[05:42] <thom> on an unrelated note, shouldn't the keyring password prompt grab input?
[05:42] <thom> a la gksu?
[05:42] <Keybuk> mjg59: there's just too many of them
[05:42] <Keybuk> I've been making sure they're registered upstream
[05:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: do you think there is anyway we would do from casper before dapper to get networkin working on such config?
[05:42] <Kamion> janimo: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/dapper/beta/ FYI, when it finishes mirroring
[05:42] <Keybuk> it's entire design to me seems fatally flawed
[05:43] <janimo> Kamion: thanks
[05:43] <Kamion> I believe that I have now published everything for beta
[05:44] <Kamion> night all
[05:44] <Keybuk> stupid things; like using the cable sense to decide to rip down the wireless connection
[05:44] <Mithrandir> seb128: redo the scan of /sys and rewrite /e/n/i and then ifup -a ?
[05:44] <Keybuk> instead of finding out whether it can even get an IP from that cable first
[05:44] <seb128> Mithrandir: something like that yeah
[05:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: fugly, but should work.
[05:45] <seb128> Mithrandir: does it work if you only have an ipw2200 card atm?
[05:45] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: i'd "ifup $IFACE &" for each, rather than use -a
[05:45] <seb128> or is it broken because I've a wired card and a wireless then?
[05:45] <Keybuk> seb128: broken because you have a card that the initramfs has no driver for
[05:45] <seb128> so anybody having an ipw2200 has no network with liveCD?
[05:45] <thom> Keybuk: downing wireless when you get a wired cable sense seems quite reasonable and sensible to me, in the vast majority of cases
[05:46] <dieman> heh, i just use wpa everywhere, so i dont notice the keyring issue :0
[05:46] <dieman> :)
[05:46] <Keybuk> thom: the assumption that a cable indicates a network is wrong though
[05:46] <mjg59> Keybuk: It's not a cable. It's a cable with link beat.
[05:46] <Keybuk> it should detect the cable, try and bring up that interface, and then only if it works, bring down the wireless
[05:46] <Mithrandir> seb128: my laptop doesn't do live cds very well.  I could test with casper and grub from an usb2 disk, though.
[05:46] <Riddell> mh21: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/cups.png
[05:46] <Riddell> mh21: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/cups1.png
[05:46] <thom> Keybuk: the assumption that plugging a cable with beat implies that you want a wired network is utterly reasonable
[05:46] <Keybuk> thom: I disagree
[05:46] <Mithrandir> seb128: but not now, since. dinner.
[05:47] <seb128> right, no hurry
[05:47] <thom> yes, it should possibly be more robust, but that's a very sane design decision
[05:47] <seb128> enjoy the dinner ;)
[05:47] <Lure> Keybuk: I agree - only if wired is working, wireless should be dropped
[05:49] <Riddell> mh21: looks like it successfully saves changes out to the file
[05:49] <mh21> Riddell: cool, I hadn't tried that
[05:50] <mh21> Riddell: I don't know what to do about the dialog though
[05:52] <dholbach> Mithrandir: enjoy it.
[05:52] <infinity> Keybuk: It's not rocket science to switch back to the wireless if the wired doesn't work, I don't see it as being a particularly bad default to attempt the switch.
[05:53] <Keybuk> infinity: but you don't need to drop the wireless to attempt the switch
[05:53] <Keybuk> it's a different interface
[05:53] <Keybuk> thus the bad design
[05:53] <Keybuk> you can bring eth0 up while eth1 is still up
[05:53] <Keybuk> and then just bring eth1 down if eth0 comes up ok
[05:54] <infinity> And then swap the gateways?
[05:54] <infinity> (you generally want to delete your default route before you go configuring an interface that will give you a new one)
[05:54] <Riddell> mh21: I think just leave it like that
[05:54] <Keybuk> infinity: the second the new default route comes up, you drop the old one
[05:54] <Keybuk> that's not hard
[05:55] <Keybuk> or you just make whatevers sets the new default route (dhclient) drop the old one first
[05:55] <Keybuk> you don't need to drop it *before* you start a potentially lengthy configuration process
[05:55] <ogra> doesnt that happen anyway ? 
[05:55] <ogra> if i have a configured interface with route, the new one overrides the old one
[05:57] <Riddell> pitti: what's the status of cups 1.2 rc2?
[05:57] <ogra> iirc the kernel picks the first default route from the table, no ? 
[05:59] <pitti> Riddell: I half-asked mdz for approval some hours ago, but I guess he's just too busy; will ask him tonight during/around the meeting
[05:59] <mdz> pitti: I'm here
[05:59] <pitti> Riddell: I'd like to upload it ASAP for maximum testing exposure and bug fix time
[05:59] <mdz> didn't see your earlier message
[05:59] <pitti> mdz: the one with the champagner, but nevermind :)
[06:00] <pitti> mdz: it's not an easy decision, I guess; I can send you the changelogs if you want, but I'm not sure whether you would have fun reading it
[06:00] <mdz> pitti: it's never fun, but I do it anyway because I think it's important ;-)
[06:01] <pitti> mdz: the feedback so far has been promising, though; a few problems were reported; I fixed some of them, and I strongly suspect that many of them already exist in our current version
[06:01] <pitti> mdz: alright, I'll extract the svn changelog and mail it to you
[06:02] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  ping
[06:02] <pitti> oh, and 1.2rc3 should be due tomorrow
[06:02] <dholbach> bluefoxicy: he went to eat something
[06:02] <bluefoxicy> ah
[06:03] <janimo> should announcements for the derivatives go each separately to ubuntu-announce?
[06:03] <pitti> Riddell: did mh21's patches do more KDE goodness?
[06:03] <Riddell> pitti: mh21's patches seem to be working well but I don't actually have a printer here to test them
[06:04] <Riddell> I need to try and borrow a printer from somewhere
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  we were talking about some stuff with livecds, I'm trying to build a livecd from scratch based on a design spec I wrote from scratch, was hoping he could give me some input
[06:05] <ogra> janimo, i was told edubuntu would be included in the announcements from flight6 on
[06:05] <mjg59> Keybuk: It doesn't actually look terribly hard to implement that behaviour
[06:05] <dholbach> bluefoxicy: ah
[06:05] <Keybuk> mjg59: and I've not even STARTED on other stupid behaviour
[06:06] <ogra> i'm a bit disappointed since i havent prepared an announcement now, but edubuntu isnt mentioned
[06:06] <Keybuk> like if I log off, and my mother logs on
[06:06] <Keybuk> IT'S DROPPED THE NETWORK CONNECTION!"(*$(!*$
[06:06] <janimo> ogra, so what do you do now ;) ?
[06:06] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  how exactly does the ubuntu livecd creation process work these days anyway?
[06:06] <mjg59> Keybuk: That's a more general issue than nm
[06:06] <ogra> janimo, preparing an announcement and send it tomorrow i think :(
[06:06] <Keybuk> mjg59: how is that a general issue?  that's nm dropping the network connection
[06:06] <janimo> ogra, but are the ISOs ready?
[06:06] <mjg59> Keybuk: The general issue is that we have nothing to define policy when no user is logged in
[06:06] <mjg59> The same applies to power management
[06:06] <dholbach> bluefoxicy: I can't tell, sorry - and I think it's a bit too much to explain here on IRC - even if I had more of a clue about it.
[06:06] <Keybuk> yes we do
[06:06] <ogra> janimo, and ? 
[06:07] <ogra> janimo, they'll be there tomorrow as well 
[06:07] <Keybuk> we can have a system default policy
[06:07] <mjg59> Keybuk: No, we can't
[06:07] <Keybuk> why not?
[06:07] <janimo> ogra, why wait till tomorrow? 
[06:07] <Keybuk> that's a bit of a self-limiting decision
[06:07] <mjg59> Because the infrastructure for implementing that isn't there
[06:07] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  nod.
[06:07] <ogra> separate announcements have the advantage that you get recognized
[06:07] <mjg59> That's not a failure of nm, it's a failure of our current dbus infrastructure
[06:07] <Keybuk> that's only because these things have been written wrong :)
[06:07] <mjg59> It's getting fixed
[06:08] <ogra> janimo, because i need someone to proofread it, because i tested isos the last nights and am tired etc
[06:08] <Keybuk> anyhoo, food, I skipped lunch and am hungry
[06:08] <janimo> ogra, ok
[06:08] <ogra> janimo, additionally you will get more attention tomorrow than you'll get today where everybody is thrilled about ubuntu itself ;)+
[06:09] <janimo> heh
[06:09] <janimo> not if edubuntu and kubuntu announce tomorrow :)
[06:10] <ogra> i guess Riddell will announce today
[06:10] <ogra> if he recognized he needs an own announcement :P
[06:10] <Riddell> yeah, I'm just finishing it off
[06:10] <ogra> ah
[06:10] <janimo> of course we could just let people poke around the site find them and spread the word :)
[06:11] <janimo> great, I need more than one announcement to copy paste from
[06:11] <ogra> thats not good from a promotion POV :)
[06:11] <Riddell> janimo: http://kubuntu.org/announcements/dapper-beta.php
[06:12] <Kamion> yep
[06:13] <ogra> Diziet, we'll have to talk about the recent firefox homepage desaster we have in xubuntuu and edubuntu 
[06:13] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: pong?
[06:15] <mdz> Riddell: is your draft announcement in the wiki?
[06:15] <dholbach> Diziet: there seems to be a fix upstream for one of the gtkmozembed problems, it seems - maybe we should take a look at it? mozilla bug 312998
[06:15] <Ubugtu> Mozilla bug 312998 in Embedding: GTK Widget "fix gtkmozembed's EmbedWindow::GetVisibility" [Major,Assigned]  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312998
[06:16] <ogra> mdz, is there a particularf reason that we use separate announcements again ? 
[06:16] <ogra> -f
[06:16] <Riddell> mdz: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/671490
[06:17] <Riddell> mdz: feel free to put it on the wiki if you have changes
[06:17] <mdz> ogra: because they have different audiences, and thus different content
[06:17] <ogra> mdz, hmm, i thought we'd go with the flight6 format from now on
[06:17] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-April/000062.html
[06:19] <mdz> Riddell: please add the usual disclaimer about universe
[06:19] <Riddell> mdz: "unsupported" or is there something longer?
[06:19] <ogra> its a bit tricky to follow if we go back and forth i policy ... so we'll keep separate announcements in the future ?
[06:19] <mdz> ogra: feel free to combine your announcement with janimo and Riddell
[06:19] <ogra> mdz, i dont care, i was just thinking we'll stay with that policy ...
[06:20] <Riddell> I like having a separate announcement for the beta/final thing, stops it being overshadowed by ubuntu
[06:20] <mdz> Riddell: adventurous users can try foo and bar, which are not part of this official release but may be found in the unsupported 'universe' archive
[06:20] <ogra> yep ... i just remeber we had that discussion and jdub wanted to set up a wiki structure so we need only one announcement and have details on the wiki
[06:20] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  hi :)
[06:21] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  are you busy atm?
[06:21] <pitti> mdz: It just came to my mind that for the final announcement we should point out which subset of packages is supported for 5 years
[06:21] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: not just now, no.
[06:21] <ogra> (which i thought mgalvin's work was for)
[06:21] <Mithrandir> mdz: thanks for not having a meeting tonight.
[06:21] <mdz> ogra: for big announcements I think it's worthwhile for the core to have a dedicated announcement, but I'm happy for the derivatives to announce together
[06:21] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  did you want to take a look at any of the stuff I was writing up the other day re the livecd discussion?
[06:21] <mdz> Mithrandir: my pleasure
[06:21] <pitti> yeah, there wouldn't be much to report anyway apart from holidays, CD testing, and last-minute bug fixing :)
[06:21] <mdz> pitti: good call
[06:22] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I've been a beta release mode for the last couple of days, so no, not really.
[06:22] <ogra> mdz, no, i'm fine with writing my own announcement its just that there were so many different ideas around it ...
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  if you want to discuss anything we should probably go to #-offtopic; I don't have a clear reason to rework UBUNTU's livecd process and don't feel like making any kind of argument unless I have a real reason
[06:22] <pitti> mdz: maybe we should add a link to the list of packages, or (crazy, but worth discussing) we could drop the non-server packages to universe after 3 years
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  ah, okay, another time then.
[06:22] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: have you written it up somewhere?
[06:22] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: oh, sorry, I misread what you wrote.
[06:23] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I read "did you read", not "did you want to read".   Yes, I'd love to read what you wrote.
[06:23] <Mithrandir> s/wrote/have written/
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  ah okay
[06:23] <Mithrandir> sorry, my english is kinda broken today; getting tired.
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  i've got a file on my hard drive I can either send or pastebin.. heh if you want to rest we can do this another time ;)
[06:23] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: pastebin's fine.
[06:24] <mdz> pitti: crazy :-)
[06:24] <pitti> mdz: but not entirely unappealing, right? :)
[06:24] <Riddell> mdz: with that change am I good to post the kubuntu announcement?
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  http://rafb.net/paste/results/a0Nj5f40.html  Needs work, particularly I need to define exactly what the "Bootstrap Modules" should expect to be guaranteed.
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> but that's the basic idea
[06:25] <mdz> pitti: we've agreed that we can't really define support in terms of packages and components; the support team is going to provide more detailed definitions
[06:26] <mdz> Riddell: still reading
[06:26] <carlos> pitti: ping
[06:27] <mdz> Riddell: OK
[06:27] <Riddell> thanks
[06:27] <pitti> carlos: pong
[06:28] <carlos> pitti: do you language packs support zope localizations? like plone, schoolbell, etc..?
[06:28] <carlos> or should I prevent them to be exported to the language pack?
[06:29] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[06:30] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I'm a bit unsure what your goal si; this is how dsslive works today?
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> dsslive?
[06:31] <nomed> Mithrandir: i guess bluefoxicy doesn't know anything about it :)
[06:31] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: sorry, there were some people yesterday or a few days ago who talked about dsslive, a system very similar to what you're sketching out.
[06:31] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I didn't remember if you were one of the people or not.
[06:33] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  my goal is to be able to modify some of the underlying LiveCD logic by dropping in scripts on top of a well-defined API (i.e. Zenity is there; bash is there; busybox is there..); the idea is that a quick script in i.e. /modules/bootstrap/1/ could make /root persistant, /modules/bootstrap/2/ could make home persistant, etc.
[06:33] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  I'm the kind of guy who likes to make things where anything you want to do to it is a plug-in or add-on or extension or script or whatever you want to call it
[06:33] <bluefoxicy> what is dsslive?
[06:34] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: just a second.
[06:35] <mdz> Seveas: Ubugtu admonished me for changing the topic of #ubuntu-meeting; who do I talk to to get the calendar feed corrected? (no distro team meeting today)
[06:35] <dholbach> mdz: fridge-devel@?
[06:36] <Seveas> dholbach, correct 
[06:36] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir: http://www.dsslive.org/mediawiki/index.php/How_To:_Lazy_Mode  ?
[06:37] <nomed> bluefoxicy: do not expect good performances from such design
[06:37] <bluefoxicy> yeh
[06:38] <nomed> as i told the other day ... having just one squashfs file is much better
[06:38] <slomo> today's daily live works perfect on my ibook g4 btw ;)
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> I don't see how this helps you do things like i.e. download a LiveCD, then download a module that adds i.e. security tools on top of it, and merge the two; or do a persistant home via 1 script; etc.
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> but eh.
[06:40] <nomed> bluefoxicy: i mean having just one squashfs file on the cdrom
[06:40] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[06:40] <bluefoxicy> nomed:  I meant dsslive :p
[06:40] <dholbach> mdz: de rien
[06:40] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: you're aware that casper has a casper-premount and casper-bottom for which roughly corresponds to your level 0 and 1?
[06:41] <bluefoxicy> nomed: and yeah I'm aware of what the implications are.
[06:42] <jsgotangco> goodnight
[06:42] <ogra> night jsgotangco 
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  interesting.  Is it possible at that point to add other things to the CD, i.e. unionfs mount a source file from /media/usbdisk as the overlay instead of a tmpfs?
[06:42] <jsgotangco> happy beta day! :)
[06:42] <mdz> hmm, I unfortunately I don't think people are reading the release announcement
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  without making massive modifications or such
[06:42] <mdz> still more downloads of install than live
[06:43] <ogra> jsgotangco, to you too !
[06:43] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: you can mount something on top of /root, sure.
[06:43] <mdz> renaming the files for final should help with that
[06:43] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  cool.
[06:44] <mdz> live-i386 is only 610MiB? that's excellent
[06:44] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  I still want to do a GUI boot though :)  and a few other things.
[06:44] <mdz> plenty of room for langpacks
[06:44] <Mithrandir> mdz: we removed OOo-winfoss some time ago.
[06:44] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: why do you want X in there?
[06:44] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes, but I thought we'd filled more of the space we recovered
[06:45] <doko> mdz: could we go on with ttf-dejavu (2.5)?
[06:45] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  For no real reason.  Well, I determined Xlibs + GTK+ + Zenity + Kdrive VESA might fit in 2 megs compressed but...
[06:45] <ogra> the a11y stuff ate ~20M on my iso scim and the asian fonts also need some space... we filled a lot again ...
[06:46] <pitti> ugh, it took a while to repair the nvidia module; espresso installed system seems to break l-r-m
[06:46] <pitti> carlos: no, langpacks just support gettext based apps so far
[06:46] <pitti> carlos: zope & friends have their own translation system AFAIR, right?
[06:47] <carlos> well, they use the same gettext system but with a different locale layout
[06:47] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: You're adding a lot of complexity for no reason, then?  If you just want stuff to look pretty, usplash basically does that already.
[06:47] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  I'm doing this mostly for fun, just trying to see if there's anything I can do along the way unique.  Graphical boot-up, interactive scripting, a LiveCD authoring system that works entirely on feeding it a kernel .deb and dropping into a shell multiple times, LiveCD extensions on USB disk, etc
[06:47] <fabbione> mdz: we need community time to understand the install from LiveCD thingy
[06:47] <carlos> pitti: using they own gettext implementation using python
[06:47] <carlos> s/they/their/
[06:47] <fabbione> mdz: s/need/need to give/
[06:48] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  Yeah but in usplash I can't add a script that pops up a window saying "Found these extra modules on USB drive, please check off which ones you want to load" or other crazy things.
[06:49] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I prefer to try catering for real use-cases to avoid a second system effect.
[06:49] <sladen> bluefoxicy: RH's splash system is X;  it adds ~45seconds to the boot process
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> sladen:  kdrive
[06:50] <ogra> kdrive == X :)
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> it'll add probably 10 seconds if that :)
[06:50] <sladen> bluefoxicy: gtk on framebuffer might be a better bet
[06:50] <sladen> bluefoxicy: time it and find out :)
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> sladen:  yeah, I'm only guaranteeing API wise that GTK/Zenity are around.
[06:51] <mjg59> sladen: Not really, since vesafb breaks suspend/resume
[06:51] <Mithrandir> mjg59: that's not a huge concern on livecds yet, though.
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> if I can figure out how to do GTKfb (i've seen qtparted qt/FB and gparted gtk/fb on System Rescue CD) I'll probably step back to get rid of the 2 megs of xlibs/kdrive
[06:52] <mdz> janimo: how is xubuntu looking?
[06:53] <sladen> mjg59: I didn't say anything about vesafb
[06:54] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I have to go now, we can talk further tomorrow?
[06:55] <bluefoxicy> sure
[06:57] <mjg59> sladen: vesafb is the only real option in most cases. With the exception of radeonfb, the others tend to be terribly restricted in hardware support or reliability
[06:58] <sladen> mjg59: for what bluefoxicy wants gtk on vga16fb with a 14-colour brown-and-black theme would work 
[06:59] <mjg59> sladen: X doesn't run on vga16fb, AFAIK
[07:00] <bluefoxicy> gtkfb doesn't exactly need X o.o
[07:00] <KaiL> http://picpaste.de/dapper-language.png uhm? ;)
[07:00] <mjg59> But it does need at least vesafb
[07:02] <bluefoxicy> yeah
[07:07] <KaiL> looks, like language selection is broken in the live-cd?
[07:07] <seb128> how so?
[07:08] <seb128> you need to run apt-get update to have a list of language for it
[07:08] <KaiL> hmm.. not really self explaining
[07:08] <seb128> no, it's not
[07:09] <seb128> it could probably use an "update list" button or something
[07:09] <sladen> mjg59: if it needs vesafb then it's broken and should stick to the standard kernel framebuffer interface
[07:09] <KaiL> I thought, there are at least some localisations already on the CD?!
[07:09] <mjg59> sladen: All the framebuffer interface gives you is a window into the ram on the card
[07:10] <mjg59> If you want to use vga16fb, you still need to write vga code
[07:10] <mjg59> There's nothing in the kernel to do the mode masking crap
[07:10] <sladen> mjg59: byte-swapping bit-planing crack?
[07:10] <mjg59> That sort of madness
[07:10] <mjg59> libbogl is the only framebuffer code that works with vga16fb
[07:11] <sladen> ...currently works...
[07:12] <sladen> and even then, not particularly efficiently
[07:12] <mjg59> It could be better
[07:12] <mjg59> But there is no "standard kernel framebuffer interface"
[07:12] <mjg59> It just happens that most graphics hardware provides a linear framebuffer that corresponds directly to the screen...
[07:13] <KaiL> seb128, imho the installer should do that without any user interaction. And bring a list of the languages available, if you have no internet
[07:13] <seb128> right
[07:13] <seb128> ping mvo about it
[07:22] <fabbione> mdz: according to my torrents there are more people downloading live than install
[07:23] <jdub> hrm
[07:23] <jdub> this is interesting
[07:23] <fabbione> by about 20%
[07:23] <jdub> postfix is not logging
[07:23] <mdz> fabbione: yes, it seems to have changed
[07:23] <jdub> probably since being logrotated this morning
[07:23] <jdub> but... it doesn't log after a restart either
[07:23] <lamont> jdub: all of postfix, or just the chrooted daemons?
[07:24] <lamont> how about stop/start?
[07:24] <jdub> yeah, did both restart and stop/start
[07:24] <jdub> appears to be nothing
[07:24] <lamont> neato
[07:24] <jdub> s/nothing/all of postfix/
[07:26] <jdub> hmm
[07:26] <jdub> syslog is zero length too
[07:27] <jdub> no syslog running
[07:27] <jdub> wow
[07:27] <jdub> suck
[07:28] <dieman> fabbione: heh, i should have fired up the torrents on our mirror too
[07:28] <dieman> fabbione: just did and its throwing a megabyte/sec at em already
[07:28] <KaiL> are there absolute numbers, about how many people try the beta compared to Flight-releases or breezy? ;)
[07:28] <fabbione> yeah
[07:28] <fabbione> KaiL: it's impossible to track
[07:29] <fabbione> not in the way in which we push to the world at least
[07:30] <KaiL> maybe just compare a single server? ;)
[07:30] <dieman> there
[07:30] <dieman> the torrents fired up so fare are doing 2.2MB/s
[07:31] <jjesse> i'm getting good download speeds for both live and regular 70kb/ss
[07:35] <dieman> whats the tracker address, anyhow -- does it have stats up?
[07:41] <jdong|laptop> congratulations, everyone, on the beta release
[07:41] <jdong|laptop> just hear
[07:41] <jdong|laptop> heard*
[07:51] <dholbach> night guys
[07:54] <ogra> dholbach, eh, youre still here ? i thought youre already heavy partying with doko :)
[07:54] <tseng> bye dholbach 
[08:12] <Burgwork> jdub, where are we at with the ubuntu-website mailing list
[08:14] <jdub> Burgwork: sort of waiting on a "YEAH!" response from heno
[08:14] <jdub> Burgwork: it's up to him
[08:14] <Burgwork> jdub, ah, ok
[08:15] <janimo> mdz, I am now writing the announcement, the images look good from the testing of the past days
[08:20] <janimo> hmm, who can set up the mirrors for xubuntu too?
[08:21] <mdke> jdub, planet is missing a favicon in my rss reader, any chance of adding one? Hardly a big deal, but if you know how, it would be nice
[08:21] <janimo> I cannot link to different mirrors for different geographic locations if xubuntu is not mirrored :)
[08:22] <janimo> I guess I can just provide the main site only as there are not going to be too many downloads
[08:22] <janimo> re;atively speaking
[08:23] <mdke> Burgwork, there is going to be an ubuntu-website mailing list? cool
[08:24] <Burgwork> mdke, planned, needs ok from heno
[08:29] <mdke> nice idea
[08:37] <Burgwork> mdke, yes, we need a forum, because the website needs work but a lot needs to be discussed before striking out
[08:39] <LaserJock> Burgwork: at this point who has access to changing the website?
[08:39] <Burgwork> LaserJock, a few of us
[08:50] <mdke> Burgwork, I was thinking of a sprint
[08:50] <mdke> especially for things like basic structure, which needs plenty of work
[08:51] <LaserJock> mdke: sounds like a good idea
[08:54] <janimo> proofreading needed, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuBetaReleaseNote
[08:54] <janimo> thanks
[08:55] <janimo> proof-editing even better ;)
[08:55] <ivoks> greetings developers of the best operating system in the worl
[08:55] <ivoks> d... :)
[08:59] <Burgwork> mdke, that would be great. I wonder if I could get the time off for that
[09:04] <zyga> hello folks
[09:10] <pitti> heya zyga
[09:11] <mdke> hey pitti 
[09:11] <pitti> hi md
[09:11] <pitti> hi mdke 
[09:11] <mdke> pitti, what's the reason that sexy global cups browsing thing you showed me earlier isn't active by default? is it insecure in some way?
[09:11] <dieman> its default working in OSX
[09:11] <pitti> mdke: it's against our 'no open ports in the default install' policy
[09:11] <dieman> i'll note
[09:12] <mdke> pitti, even for desktops?
[09:12] <dieman> can't you leave browsing on for the client withuot leaving a port open, or no?
[09:12] <pitti> mdke: yes
[09:12] <mdke> pitti, so, it is insecure?
[09:12] <pitti> dieman: no, cups browsing is designed to require a listening port on the clients
[09:12] <dieman> eh?
[09:12] <dieman> i'll test it at home
[09:12] <dieman> but im pretty sure it doesn't
[09:12] <spacey> its really easy to turn on
[09:12] <pitti> mdke: well, only potentially
[09:12] <spacey> btw
[09:12] <dieman> oh no
[09:12] <dieman> it does
[09:12] <spacey> ^_^
[09:12] <dieman> n/m
[09:12] <pitti> dieman: it is
[09:13] <dieman> i thought i had browsing on
[09:13] <pitti> dieman: servers announce their printers with UDP broadcasts, and clients need a listening port to collect them
[09:13] <dieman> but it got turned off again
[09:13] <pitti> it's quite reciprocal to the usual client/server paradigma
[09:13] <dieman> cupsd     15766     cupsys    2u     IPv4    2539605                 UDP *:ipp
[09:13] <dieman> yeah
[09:13] <pitti> but scales better
[09:13] <mdke> pitti, so should a user activate a firewall of some kind if they open that?
[09:14] <pitti> mdke: there are no actual known vulnerabilities, and as soon as there are, we'll fix them; it's just a good default security principle
[09:14] <mdke> pitti, ok
[09:15] <pitti> mdke: cups has its own ACL lists, but merely opening the port could you expose to DoS attacks, if not worse
[09:15] <pitti> mdke: the worst possible impact is full control over your printing configuration and access to printers
[09:15] <pitti> mdke: ubuntu doesn't run cupsys as root, so the impact is pretty confined
[09:15] <mdke> right
[09:15] <pitti> (we are probably the only distro that does that, though)
[09:15] <mdke> pitti, thanks for the explanation.
[09:15] <pitti> you're welcome :)
[09:16] <dieman> i can't quite think why i thought it wouldn't need a port open, either ;)
[09:16] <pitti> dieman: in theory you could also design it the other way around
[09:16] <pitti> dieman: i. e. clients regularly poll for printers
[09:17] <dieman> yeah, but you'd still have to discover a server
[09:17] <pitti> dieman: and the server has an open port which responds
[09:17] <dieman> i guess you could do that too
[09:17] <pitti> dieman: but that wouldn't scale well with 100 clients and 1 server
[09:17] <dieman> but then it would feel a lot like a SMB network :)
[09:17] <janimo> mdz, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuBetaReleaseNote
[09:18] <pitti> dieman: yes, a lot of useless noise :)
[09:19] <janimo> I guess  I could send to u-a since it is moderated and no improper content would pass?
[09:48] <dieman> 
[09:49] <dieman> sorry, was testing our radius/wpa admin scripts and had locked myself out of the network :)
[09:49] <dieman> hit spacebar tring to bring my ssh session back
[10:09] <_ion>  3234 root      17   0  251m 114m  636 S  8.6 30.5  24:01.85 brltty
[10:10] <_ion> How nice.
[10:11] <mvo> _ion: people are working on this, AFAIK the latest upload should fix the problem 
[10:11] <mvo> ping smurf
[10:12] <_ion> Ok, i'll try upgrading tomorrow.
[10:13] <_ion> Does it fix the problem by not starting brltty unless requested, or by fixing the specific code that eats all that memory?
[10:13] <mvo> _ion: AFAIK both, but dholbach uploaded it, so I'm no authority here .)
[10:14] <_ion> Ok. :-)
[10:15] <zyga> hey mvo 
[10:15] <mvo> hey zyga
[10:25] <wasabi> apt.cache.Cache... hmm. This usable? :)
[10:25] <zyga> dieman: hmm, does wpa work out of the box on dapper?
[10:28] <mdke> it depends on whether the rest of your computer is working or not
[10:29] <zyga> mdke: ?
[10:30] <mdke> zyga, hi
[10:30] <zyga> :-)
[10:33] <dieman> zyga: yes, with ipw2200 it does.
[10:33] <dieman> zyga: it depends on your wireless card
[10:33] <dieman> ive not yet tested anything but ipw2200
[10:36] <HWolf> dieman, ipw2200 is "intel centrino" right?
[10:37] <tseng> it is part of that brand, sure
[10:37] <tseng> the brand is only a few steps more meaningful as a technical description than ".NET"
[10:39] <Treenaks> tseng: or 'web 2.0'
[10:40] <tseng> right
[10:40] <tseng> HWolf: if you are wondering if you have one, lspci | grep ipw2200
[10:40] <Treenaks> had a presentation about Web 2.0 at work last week... Hype-o-rama
[10:41] <HWolf> tseng, just figuring out what to buy, that's all. :)
[10:42] <Treenaks> _ion: btw, won't Web 3.0 be called 'w3b' ?
[10:50] <lifeless> moin moin
[10:51] <ajmitch> morning lifeless 
[10:52] <bddebian> Heya lifeless, ajmitch
[10:53] <j^> does anyone know by chance if dom/nsIDOMElementCSSInlineStyle.h is missing from firefox-dev or if there is another reason for it only beeing in mozilla-dev?
[11:49] <lamont> sigh.  brltty taking ttyS0 is really fun when that's the serial console.
[11:49] <CarlFK> dapper ubuntu-server - the default apache page is not the default apache page - is that worth buggin?
[11:49] <CarlFK> it is "Index of /" of who knows where cuz it didn't install openssh-server ;)
[11:50] <_ion> lamont: Upgrade. It's not started by default anymore.
[11:50] <lamont> CarlFK: and it won't installe openssh-server, either
[11:51] <lamont> it also shouldn't have an apache server listening on the network by default either...
[11:51] <CarlFK> whoops - not jsut u-server, the LAMP option 
[11:52] <lamont> ah, that'd be "more" :-)
[11:54] <sivang> night all
[11:55] <lamont> night simira 
[11:55] <lamont> er, sivang 
[11:55] <sivang> lamont: night lamont :)
[11:55] <CarlFK> dapper-server LAMP - any idea where the mysql conf file is? 
[11:56] <_ion> Dapper should offer LAPR instead of LAMP.
[11:57] <CarlFK> R? 
[11:57] <CarlFK> posgres and ruby?
[11:57] <_ion> Yep.
[11:57] <_ion> On Rails, preferably.
[11:59] <TomB|> CarlFK: /etc/mysql/my.cnf
[12:00] <CarlFK> cnf.. right... I was loking for conf
[12:01] <CarlFK> hmm, I dont find that either 
[12:01] <CarlFK> there is no /etc/my*
[12:01] <CarlFK> ls: /etc/my*: No such file or directory
[12:03] <CarlFK> I am starting to think there is no mysql anything