[05:11] <LaserJock> hi doc people
[05:11] <robotgeek> hey LaserJock 
[05:11] <robotgeek> "authors"
[05:12] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
[11:43] <kgoetz> do i ask questiosn about werid wiki work here? 'im asking about a page that does a stupid/odd redirect
[11:49] <mdke> kgoetz, yes
[11:50] <kgoetz> the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkPrintingFromWindows?action=show&redirect=NetworkPrintingFromUbuntu is the page in question - its supposed to be about printing *from ubuntu*, and redirects to a blank page about printing *from windows*
[11:53] <kgoetz> after going through the redirect page there is nothing there (finaly worked out how to do that)
[11:55] <rob> not a fan of web based contribution, mdke?
[12:20] <mdke> rob, well, the docbook support and access control would have to be right. I think it's simply not worth the effort right now, as I said in my mail
[12:21] <rob> yeah, those are two issues of though of at length
[12:21] <rob> I think it is worth the effort of at least knowing what is available
[12:21] <mdke> I agree with that, certainly
[04:33] <jjesse> grin mdke wondered the smae thing sometimes :)
[04:39] <jsgotangco> ?
[04:49] <mdke> jjesse, he is always changing his arguments, just for the sake of prolonging discussions
[05:08] <jsgotangco> i am lost here?
[05:20] <mdke> jsgotangco, the sounder email list. there are a few people who really just troll the whole time and extend discussions longer than necessary
[05:21] <jsgotangco> mdke: oh yeah
[05:21] <jsgotangco> mdke: sounder threads that tend to go beyond 10 replies i just ignore heh
[05:29] <mdke> quite right
[06:50] <LaserJock> unfortunately I don't even subscribe to ubuntu-users or ubuntu-sounder, if I need something I go through the archives
[07:46] <jjesse> anyone around that can help me attach a screenshot to a wiki page?
[07:46] <jjesse> i should just have  attachment:adept-installer.png at the location i want that png correct?
[07:51] <Burgwork> jjesse, you need to upload it to a wikipage, usually the one you are working on
[07:58] <jjesse> throuhg the attachement?
[07:58] <jjesse> section
[07:59] <Burgwork> yep
[08:07] <jjesse> and then what?
[08:08] <jjesse> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDapperBeta?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=adept-installer.png is what i get when i upload the image
[08:18] <mdke> jjesse, attachment:filename, yeah. See HelpOnActions/AttachFile
[09:03] <mdke_> Burgwork, ping
[09:04] <Burgwork> mdke, pong
[09:04] <mdke> Burgwork, wanted to chat quickly about BetterWikiDocs
[09:05] <LaserJock> are we trying to get that approved at the next dev conference?
[09:05] <Burgwork> sure, shoot
[09:05] <mdke> LaserJock, maybe, maybe earlier :D
[09:05] <mdke> I've been thinking about it recently and having a slight change of heart about the integration of official docs and wiki stuff.
[09:05] <mdke> two things really
[09:06] <mdke> first of all, I can't think of a way to host our chunked docs (more than one page per doc) in moin
[09:06] <Burgwork> yep
[09:06] <mdke> second, I feel that a separation of the two, while on the same website, would be positive for maintaining the reliability distinction between em
[09:07] <mdke> so, something like help.u.c/ and help.u.c/wiki
[09:07] <Burgwork> sure. The main thing I want is to seperate the wikis
[09:07] <mdke> yes, absolutely
[09:07] <mdke> how about this:
[09:07] <Burgwork> integration of all docs might be a long term, with something like docudo
[09:07] <Burgwork> we might want to define what BetterWikiDocs ISN't
[09:07] <mdke> help.ubuntu.com/6.06 for our docs, help.ubuntu.com/6.06/community for the wiki docs
[09:08] <Burgwork> sure, sounds good
[09:08] <mdke> ok, I'm glad you have no problem with that
[09:08] <LaserJock> so does that mean that the wiki will be release specific
[09:09] <mdke> LaserJock, that would be something we need to think about.
[09:09] <Burgwork> there maybe a way to do that, sanely
[09:09] <mdke> my impression is that the wiki isn't well organised enough to do that
[09:09] <Burgwork> not currently
[09:10] <LaserJock> well, but if you have h.u.c/6.06/community then that implies a h.u.c/6.11/community or something
[09:10] <mdke> in which case help.ubuntu.com/community might do. Burgwork, you got some ideas for reorganising?
[09:10] <Burgwork> reorganizing which? the wiki docs?
[09:10] <Burgwork> I see the reorg as tabs, one for each supported release
[09:10] <mdke> yes, the release specific thing
[09:11] <Burgwork> the basic url would point to the current release
[09:11] <LaserJock> I like the idea of release specific wikis, people are always complaining about how wiki pages are written for releases they aren't using
[09:11] <robotgeek> well, if we could cleanup the wiki to mark release specific stuff (CategoryBreezy , CategoryDapper, CatergoryUbuntu ) etc
[09:12] <robotgeek> we could start off with UserDocumentation page
[09:12] <Burgwork> I would rather move stuff off the main wiki and then do the split
[09:12] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I agree
[09:13] <mdke> ok, as long as there are no problems with the url, on the server side
[09:13] <Burgwork> plus, dapper and breezy are not names we expose to the users
[09:13] <LaserJock> categories might be helpful though
[09:13] <Burgwork> recategorization post-move will be a big job, but useful
[09:14] <mdke> yes, but we need to plan the categories carefully
[09:14] <mdke> we might like to investigate the possibility of trying to implement some categories which are hidden from the user, that would be kewl
[09:14] <LaserJock> can you have more than one category?
[09:14] <LaserJock> per page
[09:14] <robotgeek> LaserJock: yes
[09:14] <Burgwork> pages can have as many as needed
[09:14] <robotgeek> think tags 
[09:15] <Burgwork> what would you do with hidden cats?
[09:15] <LaserJock> so you could have something like: Category6.06 and CategoryMultimedia for some multimedia page for dapper
[09:16] <Burgwork> ideally, the first should be part of the url
[09:16] <mdke> LaserJock, yes, categories are simply searches for the word "CategoryWhatever" throughout the wiki
[09:16] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I would think the idea would be to use the cats to organize the wiki, which wouldn't really be something the user is necessarily intersted in
[09:17] <Burgwork> sorry, don't follow
[09:17] <LaserJock> Burgwork: but it could also be Category6.06 Category6.11, etc. for pages that are used for multiple releases
[09:17] <LaserJock> I guess maybe my moin ignorance is showing :-)
[09:17] <Burgwork> then we have redirects
[09:18] <Burgwork> I don't think we should have categories for the release number
[09:18] <mdke> fair enough
[09:18] <Burgwork> it shoudl rather be /6.06/blahpage
[09:18] <Burgwork> and if 5.10 is the same, it would simply the same content as 6.06
[09:19] <Burgwork> different views for the same page
[09:19] <mdke> yes
[09:19] <mdke> tricky to administer though
[09:19] <mc44> Ive got a query about the the dapper beta doc on http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/dapperbeta - is this the right place to bring it up. Essentially its that the section directly below the KNown Bugs sections, and first of the list of new things about dapper, implies that there are no bugs in it
[09:20] <mdke> mc44, yes, you can talk to mgalvin 
[09:20] <mdke> Burgwork, i've amended BetterWikiDocs accordingly, and will put that high on my list for chasing people up.
[09:20] <mdke> it's definitely ready for approval, in my opinion
[09:20] <Burgwork> mdke, sounds good. I am going to be away next week, with sporadic internet access
[09:21] <mdke> Burgwork, in your view, who should be reviewing/approving that spec? I'd got Mark in mind
[09:21] <mgalvin> mc44: its still beta and those are known lingering issues... but in general many bugs have been fixed...
[09:21] <Burgwork> sure
[09:21] <Burgwork> might want to pass it by the CC, privately
[09:21] <mdke> Burgwork, ok
[09:21] <Burgwork> they raised some objections last time
[09:22] <mdke> yes, that makes sense. I think it is sufficiently convincing now to answer those
[09:22] <mgalvin> although, your right, its a little odd to have them together... the known issues was added later on by another person... i need to work them together a bit better