/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/04/26/#ubuntu-devel.txt

robertjCarlFK: do not try to bend the server for thal is impossible12:04
CarlFKrobertj: ?12:04
mdkeyou might want to file a bug if you've found a problem12:05
robertjCarlFK: sorry, needless Matrix joke12:06
CarlFKrobertj:  ah - havn't seen 2 and 3 yet12:06
CarlFKmdke: having trouble believing there is no MySql  ;)12:06
mdkeCarlFK, in that case, for help, you can ask in #ubuntu12:07
robertjCarlFK: just a variation on the there is no spoon theme12:07
CarlFKor #u-bugs... which I keep forgetting about12:08
ChipzzCarlFK: do dpkg -s mysql-server first12:10
ChipzzCarlFK: what does that give?12:10
CarlFKPackage `mysql-server' is not installed ...12:11
CarlFKthanks - thats a confirmation I can cut/paste 12:11
ChipzzCarlFK: there's your problem; unless you have mysql4-server or mysql5-server12:12
CarlFKno php4/5 either...12:17
=== didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
CarlFKmaybe they meant la Server12:18
=== ispiked [i=ispiked@unaffiliated/ispiked] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jjesse [n=jjesse@h69-129-49-2.69-129.unk.tds.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jjesse [n=jjesse@h69-129-49-2.69-129.unk.tds.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation]
=== wooster1168 [n=josh@24.115.218.54.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== wasabi_ [n=wasabi@c-71-199-216-244.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== wasabi__ [n=wasabi@c-67-172-206-227.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jjesse_ [n=jjesse@h69-129-49-2.69-129.unk.tds.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _TomB [n=ownthebo@ACD557AD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== j_ack [n=nico@p508D959C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jcol1 [n=jcole@palrel2.hp.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== nix4me [n=nix4me@49.104.207.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _TomB [n=ownthebo@ACD557AD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-130-84-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _TomB [n=ownthebo@ACD557AD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== wooster1168 [n=josh@24.115.218.54.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== spstarr_home [n=spstarr@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== spstarr_home is now known as shawn_home
=== mat [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== womble [n=mpalmer@106.135.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== GmanAFK is now known as Gman
=== slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zul [n=ubuntu@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jsgotangco [n=jerome@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jsgotangcogood morning03:40
ajmitchhi jerome03:42
=== freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.5] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-devel
zulKamion: question...why is their a reiserfs4 option when creating a partition in expresso when there is no kernel support in ubuntu's kernel by default?04:15
=== bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-devel
bddebianHeya folks04:24
=== TomB| [n=ownthebo@ACD557AD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Huahua [n=hua_@221.172.50.48] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Mez [n=cai@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ribbit [n=ribbit@68-190-90-101.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ocked [n=ocked@68-190-90-101.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Burgundaviamako: you around?05:00
=== JoaoBordignon [n=joao@200-103-177-61.cscgo7001.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== JoaoBordignon [n=joao@200-103-177-61.cscgo7001.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Fui]
=== wooster1168 [n=josh@24.115.218.54.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubha ha05:23
jdub"13:16 <@jrb> no.  though that would be kinda cool.  I want to send it to foo@webwnk.net and have that be resent to a bunch of other people05:23
jdubboh05:23
jdubnot htat05:24
jdubArs Technica: "Next major Ubuntu release to have worst name yet"05:24
Gmanjdub, it's kinda true!05:24
=== jdub kicks Gman in the pants
Gmaneft sounds more like a name for your crack05:25
Gmanstill, nice strategy to have fun for the next release05:25
jdubwhen it was first decided, i started making lame puns with words that included 'eft'05:26
jdublike05:26
jdubdapper has eaten into the edgy release cycle, we'd better be dEFT05:26
jdubgotta get the cool stuff, don't want to be lEFT behind05:27
Gmanyou need to get out more05:27
jdubyo' jus' jealous, solaris boy :)05:27
Gmanheh05:30
=== Gman will be jus' jealous when oracle buys ubuntu ;)
wombleLooking long-term, what's going to be the upgrade plan from Dapper to the next long-support release?  Will it be possible to go direct from one to the other, or will you need to step through all of the intermediates, like you do at the moment?05:33
jdubwomble: i believe we're going to try to provide a direct upgrade path05:34
jdub(thoughts may have changed on that without me knowing though)05:34
=== cai [n=cai@82.110.187.213] has joined #ubuntu-devel
wombleI doubt you're going to get too many admins happy with doing 5 upgrades to go to the next long-stable release, and requiring a reinstall just seems so Slackware.  It'll need a fair bit of fiddling to make upgrades work well across that much technology change, though.05:36
wombleOn the other hand, Etch will probably just have been released, so you can base your upgrade fu on the Sarge->Etch upgrade.  <grin>05:36
wasabi__Buh. I just made this nice gtk.Window, and now I need to turn it into a gtk.Dialog05:37
=== cge [n=ubuntu@DHCP-6-217.caltech.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
wasabi__(or magically add a run() method that works how I want it to)05:37
=== cge [n=ubuntu@DHCP-6-217.caltech.edu] has left #ubuntu-devel []
Amaranthgtk.Dialog's have children already05:40
wasabi__yeah i know. i like the work flow though.05:40
Amaranthyou like having it block the main app, you mean?05:41
wasabi__Naw, ya can just call run() and program flow continues right after.05:41
GmanAmaranth, i just tried to install alacarte - noticed i had to comment out the #gtk.glade.bindtextdomain('alacarte') in DialogHandler.py to get it to run :/05:45
Amarantherr05:45
Amaranthwhat happens if you don't?05:45
GmanGman Traceback (most recent call last):05:46
GmanGman   File "/usr/bin/alacarte", line 22, in ?05:46
GmanGman     from Alacarte.MainWindow import MainWindow05:46
GmanGman   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages/Alacarte/MainWindow.py", line 28, in ?05:46
GmanGman     from Alacarte.DialogHandler import DialogHandler05:46
GmanGman   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages/Alacarte/DialogHandler.py", line 24, in ?05:46
GmanGman     gtk.glade.bindtextdomain('alacarte')05:46
GmanGman MemoryError: Not enough memory available05:46
Gman:/05:46
Gmanalso get a bunch of -05:46
GmanGman /usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages/Alacarte/MainWindow.py: inconsistent use of tabs and spaces in indentation05:46
Amaranth*boggle*05:46
GmanGman /usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py: inconsistent use of tabs and spaces in indentation05:46
GmanAmaranth, yeah, that's what i thought ;)05:46
GmanAmaranth, this is on solaris fwiw05:47
Amaranthyeah, i noticed :P05:47
Gmanwhich may be different on the whole gettext foo stuff05:47
Amaranthdunno05:48
Amaranththe tabs and spaces thing is crack05:48
Amaranthbecause it's lying05:48
Gmanheh05:48
Amaranth(i just checked)05:48
Amaranthas for the MemoryError, i've honestly never even seen that exception :)05:49
=== G0SUB_ [i=ghoseb@2001:5c0:8f54:1:0:0:2:1] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mezheya Travis, how's things ?05:49
GmanAmaranth, ok, no worries - seems to work removing the line, so ..05:49
Amaranthgood05:49
AmaranthGman: i think that'll break translations05:50
Gmanmy only half thought was doing nm on /usr/lib/python2.4/.../gtk/glade.so05:50
Gmanwhich gives -05:50
Gman[85]     |         0|       0|FUNC |GLOB |0    |UNDEF  |bindtextdomain05:50
Gmanwhich doesn't look too healthy :/05:50
Amaranthdunno what that means but it doesn't look good05:51
AmaranthMez: got a new release of alacarte out today :)05:51
MezAmaranth, ooh, shiny05:51
Amaranthalready found one bug when you use Human (icons are the wrong size)05:51
Amaranthi blame Human for not having 24x24 icons for the menus :P05:52
=== nikolas_ [n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== klepas [n=klepas@sponge.solutionsfirst.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.1.151.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ispiked [i=ispiked@unaffiliated/ispiked] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubBenC: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/4047806:44
UbugtuMalone bug 40478 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Promise TX4300/4310 driver update" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  06:44
fabbionemorning06:54
wasabi__Crud. I need a quicky hint. Generating an apt archive to do some testing of gapti. Trying to generate/sign releases. I generate it... it only has one entry for Packages.gz, fine. Sign it, apt-get update.07:02
wasabi__ Unable to find expected entry  Packages in Meta-index file (malformed Release file?)07:02
=== Gman is now known as GmanAFK
wasabi__Using apt-ftparchive07:03
wasabi__Ahh I see.07:05
=== rohan [n=ubuntu@unaffiliated/rohan] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rohanis there a specific reason why the dapper live cd doesnt have gcc installed/available ?07:12
sethrohan, sudo apt-get install build-essential ?07:12
rohanseth: i know i can install it. but it was there on all versions starting from warty !07:12
TheMusorohan: Most users do not need a compiler, and those who do generally know how to install it.07:13
rohanTheMuso: but what if those who do dont have net access ?07:14
rohanand taking in account the 650mb limit, we still have 40 mb .. enough for build-essential07:14
=== FliesLikeABrick [n=Ryan@about/rpi/rawdor] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== hunger [n=tobias@p54A61787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubb-e was in ship, but i don't believe we have ship on the livecd07:15
rohanoh, ok, jdub 07:15
rohanatleast putting those pkgs in /var/cache/apt/archive would help, forget installing 07:16
rohanor its still not feasible ?07:17
=== robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Chipzzugh07:26
Chipzzdoes anyone have any comment on: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xfree86/+bug/38624 ?07:27
UbugtuMalone bug 38624 in xfree86 xlibmesa-gl-dev "no packages contain libGLw.so and dev headers" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  07:27
=== nomed [n=nomed@host222-194.pool8254.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"]
Chipzzthe headers can be found in libgl1-mesa-swrast-dev though...07:28
=== raggari [n=raggari@a84-231-5-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel
wasabi__Awesome. My gapti program works successfully. Anybody want to try it? :)07:35
rohanwasabi__: whats gapti ?07:35
rohanlike gdebi ?07:35
wasabi__Yup.07:35
wasabi__http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyApt07:35
rohanok07:35
wasabi__package is in my bazaar, builds to a .deb, installs, and pretty much works. ;)07:36
rohanyes, i read all that :D 07:37
rohanhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/GAptI07:37
wasabi__You'll want to test with http://akita.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/gapti-repos/photoshop.apt07:39
=== j^ [n=j@e178031245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rohanwasabi__: what does that install ? photoshop ? o.O07:41
rohanwasabi__: and, i am on the live cd now, so i cant test, will install soon, and then do it :)07:42
wasabi__Naw, it's just a bunch of BS empty packages.07:42
wasabi__Labeled "photoshop" because it's a good example.07:42
Chipzzwasabi__: no offence meant, but how do you intend to make ISV actually *implement* your proposal?07:43
wasabi__I don't.07:43
wasabi__Obviously it needs mindshare. ;007:43
ChipzzI mean07:43
Chipzzallmost all of them ship tar.gz's or self-extracting shellscripts07:43
wasabi__it beats distributing .tar.gz or shell scripts.07:43
wasabi__I know.07:43
wasabi__That does their own users a disservice.07:43
Chipzzthey have no smegging clue at all07:43
ChipzzI agree07:44
wasabi__Sure. Hey, don't get me wrong. I don't think I'll wake up oe morning and see everybody using this.07:44
Chipzzbut... what cluebat are you/we going to use? ;)07:44
wasabi__But having the tools out there, and having ubuntu sanctify it as the "best official way", actually helps.07:44
Chipzzwasabi__: for example, nvidia doesn't acknowledge the existance of debian or ubuntu packages in their readme07:45
Chipzz(supposed they are aware of them)07:45
wasabi__That's unfortunate.07:45
rohanChipzz: do thay acknowledge existence of _any_ packages ?07:45
Chipzzrohan: yes, suse packages07:45
Chipzzwhich I think they build theirselves07:46
wasabi__Chipzz: Honestly, Vmware is my prefered starting company to yell at. ;007:46
wasabi__Because I download workstation updates every few weeks. ;)07:46
wasabi__And ya'll are "nice."07:46
Chipzzwasabi__: at least they have enough clue to make it a gtk+ 2.0 app ;)07:46
rohanChipzz: ewwwwwwww.. rpm !07:46
rohanChipzz: not even fedora ?07:46
wasabi__Either way, this .apt crap actually would work for RPMs07:46
wasabi__You'd just use apt-rpm.07:46
Chipzzrohan: not sure; read the readme ;)07:46
rohanChipzz: i dont use nvidia drivers :D07:47
wasabi__One link, you click on it, yes, it has to have seperate compiled versions for your distro, but I suspect that's not That Bad.07:47
wasabi__Either way it's a seperate problem.07:47
Chipzzwasabi__: but you know... I think there's another (bigger) issue alltogether07:47
Chipzzwasabi__: ISV's don't *want* to *support* our packages07:48
Chipzzsupport being the imperative word here07:48
wasabi__Let them support their own.07:48
wasabi__Like they do on every other OS.07:48
wasabi__Obviously there is some software where that makes sense, and some where it doesn't.07:48
Chipzzwasabi__: they do support their tar.gz's or self-extracting shellscripts07:48
Chipzz07:43 < wasabi__> it beats distributing .tar.gz or shell scripts.07:48
Chipzz;P07:48
Chipzzerrr07:48
Chipzzthat last one was an unfortunate paste ;)07:48
wasabi__If VMware were to publish .debs, installed this way, they'd be doing their customers a service. They'd need to test them on an Ubuntu box.07:49
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel
wasabi__I suspect they test their shell scripts there anyways.07:49
ChipzzI suspect the issue here is "more work"07:49
Chipzzwasabi__: don't get me wrong, I think gapti is an *excellent* idea :)07:49
wasabi__Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Ubuntu is a large installed base. It makes sense for somebody to spend 24 hours to polish the install for them.07:50
wasabi__I mean, what, third largest distro? If you can't spend 24 hours to make a few .debs for the third largest distro, we've got bigger problems.07:50
Chipzzwasabi__: btw, how does this integrate with gnome-software-manager?07:50
wasabi__Doesn't yet. Will talk to mvo.07:50
wasabi__I suspect all the software needs to do is install a .desktop file, and then they'd be able to uninstall from there07:51
HrdwrBoBwasabi__: third?07:51
HrdwrBoBhttp://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularity07:51
wasabi__Hah nice.07:52
wasabi__anyways, POINT MADE07:52
wasabi__I don't know if it'll h elp. Having the servicve out there to be consumed by those smart enough to use it sounds like a good thing to me.07:52
wasabi__It can be promoted as the proper way to deliver software to, at least Ubuntu. There's some pushing we can do with vendors there, certainly.  heck windows makes everybody sign drivers now.07:53
wasabi__This is light compared to that. ;007:53
wasabi__Also they gain a free auto update service (apt).07:53
wasabi__Which saves them time making their own. Maybe that equalizes? Got me.07:54
Chipzzwasabi__: have you taken a look at /usr/share/update-manager/channels/*info ?07:55
wasabi__yeah. I took a look.07:55
wasabi__Looked a bit half baked.07:55
wasabi__I named my dialog "Channel" though. :007:55
Chipzzyea maybe :)07:56
Chipzzbut it would be nice to have one format, instead of 207:56
wasabi__Yeah, I agree. The channel thing however doesn't really have a lot to do with a specific package being installed.07:56
=== wooster1168 [n=josh@24.115.218.54.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has left #ubuntu-devel []
wasabi__gapti is just proof of concept anyways. I want to get some people interested.07:57
Chipzzwell, who says only one package would be in a gapti repository^Wchannel? ;)07:57
wasabi__me.07:57
wasabi__Doesn't really make much sense other wise.07:57
Chipzzvmware for example could have multiple packages in there07:57
Chipzzvmware-workstation, vmware-server, etc...07:58
wasabi__I'd have them make a .apt file for each "logical product" they have.07:58
Chipzzwouldn't that be a bit silly? ;)07:58
wasabi__Run gapti, you'll see where im going with the UI07:58
=== wooster1168 [n=josh@24.115.218.54.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
wasabi__It checks out, intalls, and works pretty easily.07:58
Chipzzdebs available? ;)07:59
=== Chipzz runs :)
wasabi__Naw. bzr checkout, debuild -us -uc ;)07:59
wasabi__I want the whole .apt file part to be invisible to the user. What they are doing is clicking on a link to install a product they just bought.08:00
Chipzzshouldn't the first .apt file be gapti.apt? ;)08:00
wasabi__heh no08:00
wasabi__So, After purchasing vmware workstation, you'd have a Click Here to Installl.08:00
Chipzzexcept that it's free nowadays ;)08:00
wasabi__You'd have to go buy vmware-server to have a link for it.08:00
wasabi__Yeah, except that haha08:00
=== viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Chipzzwasabi__: btw, check pvt ;)08:02
wasabi__I'm not really even thinking about stuff like nvidia.08:04
wasabi__We package their stuff, and I like it that way for now.08:04
wasabi__Since they don't even support their own software, actually.08:04
wasabi__... you ever seen a nvidia tech support line for their drivers for any platform?08:04
Chipzzinternal bug-tracking system, "it will get fixed 'in a future release'", stuff like that?08:05
wasabi__This may suck, but I'm really more concerned with commercial ISVs.08:06
wasabi__ie non-open source.08:06
Chipzzuhu08:06
Chipzzbut, I'm wondering08:06
TheMusovmware free? I thought you still had to buy it.08:06
wasabi__open source stuff gets packaged in Ubuntu and other distros just fine.08:07
wasabi__And that's cool, because it can be supported centrally.08:07
Chipzzwhy are you concentrating on single packages? the format on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyApt mentions channels, and a single package may have a chain of dependencies anyway08:07
wasabi__Because the point is to satisfy a use case... a user buys software and clicks on a link to install it.08:08
wasabi__Underneath sure, that may have deps.08:08
wasabi__And may be many .deb files, but the user is really only aware of a single logical product.08:08
wasabi__behold the photoshop example.08:09
wasabi__I'm not just trying to give a user a more convient way of browsing software offered by a repository. We already have 20 of those.08:09
ChipzzI was thinking about the following approach: have a superset of the channel .info format, in which you specify one or more packages (not the dependencies); user clicks on that, file gets download and the channel .info subset gets written in /usr/share/update-manager/channels/, you get the standard gnome-software-properties 'add channel' dialog, user selects components, clicks ok, you run apt-get update, user gets a second dialog with 08:12
=== MagnusR [n=magru@c83-250-59-127.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel
wasabi__Oh, yeah, don't get me wrong, I want to reuse the gnome-software-properties UI pieces... and all of that. They just aren't done yet.08:13
wasabi__.info files too.08:13
wasabi__They also aren't currently reusable. ;)08:13
wasabi__So I whipped up my own.08:13
Chipzzuhu :)08:14
wasabi__gapti right now has a dialog that asks you if you are sure you want to subscribe to the channel.08:14
Chipzzso, like I said in private, the .info format has its deficiencies...08:14
wasabi__That should totally be the same UI in g-s-p.08:14
wasabi__The .apt files right now are pretty simple too. Just a simple multi-stanza dpkg format file with basically filters.08:15
wasabi__In fact they look quite a bit like the .info files.08:15
wasabi__i need one file for all distros though.08:16
wasabi__.info doesn't quite fit right with that.08:16
Chipzzwhy?08:16
wasabi__Web page can't usually properly detect the user's OS/distro. I mean, it could.08:16
wasabi__But it would suck.08:16
wasabi__So the .apt file can have a stanza for redhat, one for ubuntu, and one for debian.08:17
wasabi__And the proper stanza is chosenl08:17
Chipzzuhu08:17
wasabi__what hte heck does 'uhu' sound like?08:17
Chipzzlike: "you're right" :)08:17
Chipzz(yeah)08:17
wasabi__Also, different apt lines for different releases of distro.08:18
wasabi__dapper, breezy, etc.08:18
Chipzzwould they have to be different?08:18
wasabi__Just like companies now maintain win9x and winnt and win2k and winxp versions of some of their software.08:18
wasabi__They'd have to do the same with our point releases.08:18
Chipzzexcept for the dapper/breezy part that is08:18
wasabi__yeah of course, since it doesn't exist yet heh08:18
Chipzzcouldn't you just list the releases elsewhere?08:19
Chipzzie on a different line in your file?08:19
wasabi__That's basically what I do.08:19
ChipzzI should probably read the wiki ;)08:19
wasabi__yeah. ;008:19
wasabi__Run it yet?08:20
wasabi__My favorite part is how I'm (ab)using Recommends/Suggests.08:21
wasabi__probably exactly how they were intended to be (ab)used. ;008:21
Chipzznot yet ;)08:22
=== Chipzz off to sleep in a short while anyway ;)
wasabi__ahh08:22
Chipzzbut I'll definately take a look later08:22
wasabi__oh also .apt files deliver gpg keys08:23
wasabi__for apt-key08:23
Chipzznow *that* is nice :)08:23
wasabi__and the entire file is signed by the same key08:23
wasabi__so you can at least guarentee that the repository you are adding has the same key as the file you downloaded08:24
Chipzzaha08:28
Chipzzmesa build allmost done :)08:28
wasabi__me->bed08:30
wasabi__night08:30
Chipzznight :)08:31
=== Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiGood morning08:49
=== carlos [n=carlos@9.Red-88-4-165.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
TreenaksAny X gurus in the house^Wchannel? :)08:59
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Treenaks(if there are, could you please look at bug 20283? :))08:59
UbugtuMalone bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "[fgl v5000]  really bad sync" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2028308:59
fabbioneTreenaks: hell.. please stop pushing bugs here.. :)09:00
Treenaksfabbione: ok :)09:01
=== Treenaks moves to #ubuntu-bugs
fabbioneTreenaks: i upload a nerw version of the driver 20 minutes ago..09:01
fabbionedoes it fix?09:01
Treenaksfabbione: No09:01
Treenaksunless.. *hmm*09:01
fabbionehow could you have tested it, if it hasn't been published on archive yet?09:01
Treenaksdidn't get that new one yet :) are there more changes than are noteed in the changelog, or is that the only one?09:02
=== fabbione larts Treenaks with a cluebat
fabbionethere are 2 changes09:02
Treenaksfabbione: OK.. the GART thing might be related..09:02
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== janimo [n=ubuntu@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== nomed [n=nomed@host222-194.pool8254.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== carlos [n=carlos@132.Red-81-34-77.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
carlospitti: ping09:18
=== dholbach [n=daniel@i577B0DFC.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mvo [n=egon@p54A671F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dholbachHAPPY HUG DAY09:20
mdkemorning dholbach 09:23
mdkehappy hug day to you too09:23
dholbachhey mdke :)09:23
=== Aegir [n=richard@d58-105-36-34.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittihey carlos, moin seb12809:34
carlospitti: I'm still fixing translation domains exports from Rosetta09:34
seb128hi carlos pitti09:35
carlospitti: and I detected that your report says that the buildd output includes some man pages using .po files to translate09:35
carlosseb128: hi09:35
carlospitti: and also, you are including translation domains from universe, like beagle09:35
pitticarlos: oh, these are probably superfluous in the final langpacks09:35
pitticarlos: beagle is in main (the source)09:35
carlosoh09:36
carloshmmm09:36
pitticarlos: we only filter by source, not by binary09:36
seb128carlos: we build nautilus by example with libbeagle09:36
carlosis there an easy way to see if a sourcepackage is in main?09:36
carlosI was using apt-get search09:36
pitticarlos: apt-cache madison srcpkg09:36
carlosbut that's for binaries...09:36
carlospitti: ok, thanks09:36
carlosseb128: I see09:37
pittiit works as well with binary packages, it figures out the corresponding source package09:37
seb128carlos: apt-cache showsrc beagle | grep Directory09:37
carlospitti: also, I'm preparing a list of translation domains that I don't know where they come from and thus, I cannot import them into Rosetta... I will send you the list when I'm done with it09:37
pitticarlos: yes, then I'll check their origin09:38
carlospitti: thanks09:38
=== mh21 [n=mh21@ip54576d93.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128pitti: is there a plan for weekly translations update or something from now?09:38
pitticarlos: it's very likely that the heuristics in my script picked up some wrong ones09:38
seb128pitti: that would have be nice to get updates before beta by example :/09:38
pittiseb128: no problem from my side for that09:38
carlospitti: I will provide you also the list of invalid .pot files, don't worry09:38
carlosseb128: I think that's doable09:39
mh21pitti: morning09:39
mh21pitti: What's broken with cups auth?09:39
pittimh21: hey Mischa09:39
carlosthe language pack exports from Rosetta are working daily09:39
pittimh21: I saw your upstream bug report :)09:39
carlosand most .pot files are already imported09:39
carlosstill need to import some .po files09:40
pittimh21: local authentication works fine (through gnome and the command line tools), it's just the web frontend auth that's busted09:40
carlosbut that will be appearing over time until Dapper release09:40
pittimh21: it works fine if cupsd runs as root, but instead of not doing admin jobs at all if it runs as cupsys (like in breezy), it just does them without ever asking for auth09:40
pittimh21: the idea is to disable admin stuff in the web interface by default, and reenable it with sudo adduser cupsys shadow, so that cupsd can read the passwords09:41
pittimh21: now that beta is out, this one is very high on my list of stuff to fix :)09:41
pitticarlos: what's the latest word wrt. KDE import?09:41
seb128pitti: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/40437 09:41
UbugtuMalone bug 40437 in hal "backport CVS code for is_mounted_read_only property" [Normal,Confirmed]  09:41
mh21mh21: so running cups as root should make it at least authenticate?09:41
seb128pitti: if you have some minutes for that today ... :)09:41
mh21pitti: so running cups as root should make it at least authenticate?09:42
carlospitti: all .pot files are approved, I'm setting the flag to get them exported as part of the language packs now09:42
pittiseb128: oh, sorry for that09:42
pittimh21: yes09:42
seb128pitti: sorry for what?09:42
pittiseb128: for delaying it that long09:42
=== herzi [n=herzi@d060169.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiseb128: is that the same issue you pointed me to maybe two weeks ago?09:42
seb128pitti: hum, I send the bug before going to bed, I would not call that delayed ... :)09:42
carlospitti: there are some .po files that are not yet imported, but I already wrote code to fix that and it should land on production anytime soon (Tuesday as the worst case)09:42
seb128pitti: probably yep09:42
=== herz1 [n=herzi@d060169.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128pitti: I've the patched package ready for upload, I just want your opinion before uploading, should be fine imho09:43
carlospitti: would you do the same kind of report you send for dapper but for hoary and breezy?09:43
pitticarlos: ok, then let's schedule new packs next Wednesday; seb128, is that fine for you?09:43
seb128pitti: yeah, works for me09:43
carlospitti: I would fix those too 09:43
pitticarlos: I can't; my script doesn't support buildd extraction for stables, just for the very latest tarballs09:44
carlospitti: also, we should try to release a monthly update for those releases, now that language packs start to be stable enough...09:44
carlospitti: hmm09:44
carlosok09:44
carlosIs there anyway to fix that?09:44
pittiseb128: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2006-March/msg00046.html <= that's still on my list, that was the mail you pointed me to two weeks ago09:44
pittiseb128: so that's the same issue09:44
pitticarlos: right09:45
seb128pitti: correct09:45
seb128pitti: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2006-March/msg00045.html has the patch and is the mail to read about it probably09:45
seb128(I've pointed it on the bug)09:46
pittiseb128: looks straightforward enough, fire away :)09:46
seb128pitti: what I though, thank you ;)09:46
=== pitti -> breakfast
=== dhonn [n=dhonn@ip68-7-120-207.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dhonnhey how hard would it be to put the Text-Mode Install CD on the Desktop Live CD?09:47
fabbionenot too hard assuming a 1.2GB CD09:48
fabbioneoh hold on..09:48
fabbionethat's like the DVD :)09:48
dhonnit should have both on one cd under 650 mb09:48
fabbioneimpossible09:49
fabbionethere is no space09:49
TheMusoThe live CD can install now anyway.09:49
TheMusoWith espresso.09:49
=== janimo [n=ubuntu@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has left #ubuntu-devel []
dhonnit should be easy to put all this on one cd... i mean it should be able to load a text and graphical interface 09:51
HrdwrBoBit should be09:52
HrdwrBoBbut it's not.09:52
Mithrandirdhonn: not if you want it to boot in a sensible amount of time.09:53
jdubMithrandir: a text-based espresso frontend would be interesting (and amusing)09:54
jdub(not that i really care, but it would be interesting)09:54
jdub(livecd install uber alles, etc)09:54
Mithrandirjdub: apart from the a11y benefits, I don't really see a point?09:54
jdubMithrandir: it'd be an amusing abuse of the espresso/d-i relationship09:55
jdubi don't think there's much point either09:55
jdubapart from theoretical interest value09:56
TheMusod-i could be given a11y for the console, but that is not exactly an easy task.09:56
TheMusoHowever not possible for low vision users and those with motor difficulties.09:56
TheMusoAFAIK.09:56
dholbachhey jdub!09:57
jdubit would be easier to give a11y love to the espresso experience09:57
MithrandirTheMuso: why would it be particularly hard?09:57
jdubyo dholbach 09:57
dholbachhow's it going?09:57
TheMusoMithrandir: FOr speech, one firstly needs to include ALSA drivers, and have some way of accessing the speech synthesizer, which would not fit into the initrd image.09:58
TheMusoAnd since festival/flite are rather big...09:58
TheMusoI was for a while investigating a cludgy implementation, but there were a few too many points of failure for it to be usable in all cases.09:59
MithrandirTheMuso: there's a brltty-udeb09:59
TheMusoMithrandir: That doesn't take care of speech however.09:59
=== Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-092-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pvanhoof [n=pvanhoof@mailhost.newtec.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mh21pitti: Normally, access to http://localhost:631/admin/conf/cupsd.conf fails; with usermod -aG shadow cupsys it works10:15
mh21pitti: How is it supposed to be?10:15
=== Gloubiboulga is now known as Gloubiboulga|AFK
pittimh21: hm, indeed10:16
pittimh21: however, adding a printer does not require any password10:16
mh21pitti: local auth?10:17
pittimh21: not through TCP10:17
KeybukWTF is brltty10:20
pittimh21: local auth with the certificate works with the gnome tools and command line tools only10:20
Keybukand why is it using all of my CPU and MEM ?10:20
seb128Keybuk: because you didn't update to the "fixed" version dholbach uploaded yesterday?10:21
Keybukseb128: I'm updating now ... I was wondering why APT/dpkg were so damned slow10:21
mh21pitti: I think it is more along the lines of AuthType Basic, Require user @SYSTEM in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf:<Location /admin>10:25
=== Huahua_ [n=hua_@222.50.182.57] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittimh21: indeed10:30
pittimh21: that's why you can use any lpadmin user in the http auth dialog10:30
pittimh21: the point is that it doesn't appear if you run cups as non-root10:30
mh21it does when you insert these two lines in the admin section10:31
mh21pitti: its not there normally10:31
pittimh21: hm, it's for me, in the <Policy default> section10:32
pittiah, I see what you mean10:32
pittimh21: still strange that it works as root then10:32
jordipitti: how hard is it getting to get fixes in dapper?10:33
jordipitti: for trivial stuff like dictionaries10:33
pittijordi: not hard at all10:33
jordiok10:33
pittimh21: upstream's default is to not restrict the mere access to /admin by default, but just require authentication for the 'commit' actions - i. e. when you configure a new printer, you can click through all the steps, and just the final 'do it' button asks for auth10:42
=== phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittimh21: that's why Location /admin is not resticted, just e. g. CUPS-Add-Printer is10:42
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mh21 [n=mh21@ip54576d93.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mdz [n=mdz@217.205.109.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mh21pitti: I'll look into the policy authentication...10:50
=== pitti hugs mh21
pittimh21: I'll do so too ASAP, I have the Debian packages for comparison here10:50
=== vuntz__ [n=vuntz@volin.imag.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiKamion: good morning! are you already awake?11:07
=== \sh [n=shermann@ubuntu/member/backslash-sh] has joined #ubuntu-devel
\shmorning11:24
\shguys, do we have an nfs mountable ubuntu archive?11:25
Kamionpitti: hi11:30
pittihi Kamion 11:30
pittiKamion: can you join #ubuntu-desktop for a moment, please?11:30
=== klepas [n=klepas@10.66.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirdoko: re bug 40338 ; that's an xresprobe bug and basically how X config works.  (Which is somewhat broken for LCD panels)11:36
UbugtuMalone bug 40338 in Ubuntu "amd64-live - 1920x1200 screen detected as 1600x1200" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4033811:36
Mithrandirdoko: and it's a duplicate, but that's ok.11:37
dokook, thanks for looking11:41
dholbachogra: dia 0.95.0 is in incoming11:47
dholbachogra: and it closes loads of bugs11:48
Dizietogra: re the firefox homepage, did you read the mails from yesterday ?11:48
ogradholbach, yes, yes, i'll create a syc bug :)11:48
ograDiziet, before i can read mail, evo needs to be fixed ...11:48
ograi'll care for a replacement today, sorry, couldnt read mail the last two days :/#11:49
Dizietogra: :-/11:49
=== Gloubiboulga|AFK is now known as Gloubiboulga
DizietOK, well, we have a planned answer.  Only the package dependencies need to be decided on.  I was going to write it up on the wiki page and implement it (in m-f-l-all at least) ASAP.11:50
mdkeDiziet, I'm slightly worried that the ed/k/xubuntu-docs maintainers will not be keen on doing all the symbolic links, do you think it is a sane solution?11:52
ograDiziet, my prob is, that we use the ubuntu-docs package, so just conflicting wont work11:52
Dizietmdke: Why is it so hard to do these links ?  It's about 4 lines of your favourite scripting language.11:52
Dizietogra: You really need to read these emails.  Bear with me and I'll put them on a web page.11:53
ograDiziet, i need my mailer, so i'll have to solve it today... 11:54
mdkeDiziet, fine by me, as long as they don't mind doing it. It's right that there needs to be a link for every mfla locale? if so, we'd probably need a way to figure out when some of those are added to make sure that the link gets created for the new locale11:54
ogra(i get at east 400 mails a day, i dont want them to stack up :)11:54
Diziethttp://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/d/ubuntu-docs-firefox.txt11:54
=== heno [n=henrik@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Dizietmdke: There needs to be a link for every locale listed in the list on the wiki page.11:55
DizietIf the *-docs maintainers don't want to do it then I could do it myself.11:55
=== Phlosten [n=Phlosten@CPE-60-229-105-171.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
DizietIt might be quicker and easier for one person to do it anyway.11:56
mdkeDiziet, right, so when that list changes?11:56
DizietThat way we can test it locally without having to break everyone's firefox for a day due to the path being wrong.11:56
Dizietmdke: The wiki page has a process for changing the list, which tells you what to do in what order.11:56
DizietBut we need to think about the dependencies.11:56
DizietI'm tempted to just ditch the dependencies and if you install partial updates or something you just don't get a homepage.11:57
DizietSince the system is otherwise quite useable.11:57
henoKamion: xcursor-themes have been approved for main, but hasn't yet been moved in there. Can you help with that?11:57
DizietThe problem being that the dependency is really difficult to express.11:57
henoIt is useful for the hight visibility theme setup11:58
Kamionheno: yeah, I'll do anastacia processing in a bit11:58
mdkeDiziet, how about "depends on xubuntu-docs or ubuntu-docs or kubuntu-docs or edubuntu-artwork"?11:58
=== slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KamionI obviously wasn't doing it during the beta freeze11:58
henoKamion: ah, ok thanks11:59
Dizietmdke: That's not right, because it has to be specific versions and it's not `or', it's `whichever of *-docs is going to win the alternative needs to be at least xyz'.12:00
pittiHi Diziet 12:01
mdkeDiziet, gosh12:01
DizietI think it would be expressable with Breaks and versioned Provides, but we don't have either of those.12:01
Dizietpitti: Hello.12:01
pittiDiziet: do you have some minutes today to speak about gs-gpl vs. gs-esp?12:01
DizietSure.12:01
DizietIn terms of ReducingDuplication, you mean ?12:01
pittiyes12:02
pittiDiziet: I just checked dependencies12:02
pittiDiziet: the only package that b-deps on gs-gpl without alternatives is quagga12:02
pittiI guess for building documentation and such12:02
pittiDiziet: do you see any reason to keep gs-gpl in main? i. e. does it have anything gs-esp hasn't?12:02
DizietYes.  It has a different set of bugs.12:03
=== WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-238-184.nr.ip.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittihpijs and scribus prefer gs-gpl over gs-esp, but have proper alternative dependnecies12:03
DizietUnfortunately the gs area is a mess because it's not clear what upstream is.  I hope gs-esp is going to win but in the meantime I think we need to provide gs-gpl so that users who find that gs-esp breaks have a workaround.12:04
DizietPossibly quagga's docs triggered some gs-esp bug in an earlier version.12:04
DizietOr possibly it predates gs-esp.12:04
pittiDiziet: but it seems that most users will only have gs-esp installed anyway, since most packages alternatively depend on it12:04
dholbachDiziet: had any time to look at mozilla bug 312998? it has a patch which might fix up one of the gtkmozembed problems12:05
UbugtuMozilla bug 312998 in Embedding: GTK Widget "fix gtkmozembed's EmbedWindow::GetVisibility" [Major,Assigned]  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31299812:05
pittiDiziet: under the assumption that quagga works with gs-esp (i'd change it to b-dep: gs-esp | gs), would you still keep gs-gpl in main?12:05
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Dizietpitti: I think I would keep it in main, yes.12:05
nomedhi all12:05
Dizietdholbach: I was just reading that.12:05
nomedthe bug #40418 has been reported in xubuntu-meta ..12:06
UbugtuMalone bug 40418 in xubuntu-meta xubuntu-live "xubuntu live cd fails to display desktop correctly" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4041812:06
DizietI'm not sure of the connection.12:06
nomedshould i move it somewhere else ?12:06
dholbachDiziet: ah ok. Just wanted to make sure you knew about it. :-)12:06
DizietThanks.  But do we have any reason to think this is responsible for our crash ?12:06
RiddellKeybuk: your kcontrol.postinst fails with "rmdir: /etc/hotplug/usb: Directory not empty"12:07
dholbachDiziet: this problem seems to show in devhelp (not sure if it fixes other issues) - devhelp displays a really weird "start up page" due to that and I'd trust chpe with his patches, he's epiphany upstream and dug himself into quite a lot of mozilla problems.12:08
KeybukRiddell: bah :)12:08
Keybukforgot an || true?12:08
dholbachDiziet: So, I don't think that's a crash, it fixes.12:08
RiddellKeybuk: that would work, I'll add that12:08
Dizietdholbach: Right.12:09
ograDiziet, ok, read the thread, thanks for uploading it12:09
Dizietogra: NP12:09
KeybukRiddell: already added and uploaded12:10
Dizietdholbach: I think I should put mozilla 312998 on my ff to-fix list though - the patch looks sane.  So thanks.12:10
UbugtuMozilla bug 312998 in Embedding: GTK Widget "fix gtkmozembed's EmbedWindow::GetVisibility" [Major,Assigned]  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31299812:10
ograDiziet, edubuntu rlies on the ubuntu server documentation, so both packages need to be installable alongside ... the idea with the directory sounds intresting, can FF handle that ? 12:10
dholbachDiziet: Thank YOU!12:10
Dizietogra: FF doesn't care.  Before I sent the mail I did test that the alternatives system works with directories.12:11
ogracool12:11
ograthen lets do it like that ! :)12:11
pittiDiziet: oh, btw, do you have updating to ffox 1.5.0.2 on your list? I'll mail you the CVE list shortly12:12
ograthe current system would require that all systems have exactly the same amount of translated pages, else you flip over to another page :)12:12
Dizietpitti: Yes, I do.  And yes, please, thanks.12:12
Dizietpitti: For form's sake, have you already requested and got a uvf exception ?  Not that we have much of an alternative ...12:13
=== mendred [n=mendred@59.92.96.219] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiDiziet: no, I didn't12:13
Dizietpitti: OK.12:13
Dizietogra: No, because of the symlinks, you can fall back to English for the cases where there is no translation.12:14
ograDiziet, on edubuntu it uses the translated ubuntu page if available 12:14
ograi only have the edubuntu page in english installs12:15
KamionKeybuk: rmdir --ignore-fail-on-non-empty is better than || true12:15
Dizietogra: That's because we haven't implemented yet what is described in that mail chain.12:16
KeybukKamion: does that work in busybox?12:16
KamionKeybuk: no, but who cares in postinst scripts12:16
ograDiziet, thats why i talked about "the current system" ;)12:16
DizietYes, we know it's broken.12:17
pittiDiziet: mailed12:18
KamionRiddell: I'm doing the espresso => ubiquity rename at the moment; you might want to not accumulate any changes in your branch, otherwise your merge will be very complicated12:19
Kamion$ bzr diff | wc -l12:19
Kamion3572412:19
DizietOK, I'm not imagining it.  I don't have a mail telling me who to ask about a UVF exception.12:20
DizietI suppose I'll just wibble here and hope some poor sod pipes up.12:20
KamionDiziet: see DeveloperResources12:20
Kamionin the "Freezes" section12:21
Dizietdholbach: Unfortunately that gtkmozembed upstream bug seems to be languishing.12:21
Diziet(The crash one, 325884)12:22
dholbachmozilla bug 32588412:22
UbugtuMozilla bug 325884 in Embedding: GTK Widget "race? crash in EmbedPrivate::Realize with gtkmozembed" [Critical,New]  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32588412:22
dholbachthat's quite unfortunate :-/12:24
dholbachI wonder why they didn't ask for more debugging symbols.12:24
=== Fjodor [n=sune@daimi-pat.daimi.au.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzKeybuk: should we add an external tool somewhere for creating /var/run directories in the appropriate manner?12:26
RiddellKamion: ok, let me know when I'm good to merge12:26
=== jinty [n=jinty@12.Red-83-58-173.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
DizietKamion: Ah, thanks.  I've added some cross-references to the wiki.12:27
Keybukmdz: I've been thinking about that12:28
=== olemke [n=olemke@p54895927.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Dizietdholbach: I'm tempted to try to set up helgrind.12:28
dholbachDiziet: I suppose 'helgrind' is not a typo. :-)12:29
DizietApparently not ...12:29
DizietAlthough the thought of running mozilla under an obscure but strict validator isn't giving me a good feeling.12:30
KamionDiziet: thanks12:32
mdzKeybuk: all the dependencies would be sort of a pain though12:32
KeybukLaunchpad has suddenly lost its monospace-ness for the text entry box12:35
KeybukDiziet: is that a firefox bug?12:35
DizietI don't think it should be.12:36
DizietBut I wouldn't rule it out.12:36
Keybukseems they're using12:37
Keybuk  font-family: sans-serif;12:37
Keybuk  font-family: caption;12:37
DizietWell, that's not my fault then, at least not entirely :-).12:37
Keybukyup12:38
Keybuksticking font-family: monospace !important; in my "make LP not suck" stylesheet fixed it for me12:38
KeybukDiziet: apparently it's your fault for not picking the right "caption" font12:41
mdzpitti: is cups basically maintained by one person upstream?12:41
mdzpitti: I think every commit in that changelog was by the same person12:42
pittimdz: yes, Michael Sweet12:42
pittimdz: there are some contributors, mainly from Apple, but mikes commits everything12:42
DizietI have no idea what `caption' is.12:42
pittimdz: i. e. patch proposal go through bug reports (STRs)12:43
KeybukDiziet: whatever font the GUI is using12:43
Keybukapparently12:43
Keybukso for me that would be "Sans 8"12:44
Keybukthe font it's picked looks terrible; (a) it's a Serif font, and (b) it looks more like one of those silly printing fonts than one designed for the screen12:45
FjodorHi. Though this isn't a support channel, I'd like to report a problem. Only thing I did to cause it was dist-upgrade to dapper. Now I can't enter Danish chars in emacs, and most graphical apps report "Warning: locale not supported by Xlib, locale set to C"12:45
DizietThough it isn't a support channel, you would like support ?  Sorry, but it's still not a support channel even for you.12:47
Keybukhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/firefox-font-bug.png12:47
pittiKeybuk: hm, what is this /var/run/cups chgrp'ing to 'lpadmin' fixing?12:48
Keybukpitti: the fact that /var/run was in the wrong group?12:48
mvoFjodor: does it help if you run the language-selector again?12:48
FjodorKeybuk: No, I don't seek an answer right now, but would like to report it as a problem12:48
DizietKeybuk: That's pretty cruddy, yes.12:48
pittiKeybuk: ah, so really just cosmetics? or had it some actual impact?12:49
DizietHrm.  Are you sure about that css ?12:49
Keybukpitti: wasn't aware of a bug, but I figured there could be one, so fixed it anyway12:49
KeybukDiziet: yes, the CSS looks ok12:49
pittiKeybuk: ok, thanks12:50
pittisince it's 0755, it shouldn't matter12:50
FjodorKeybuk: Oh, sorry. Read the lines wrong...12:50
FjodorDiziet: : No, I don't seek an answer right now, but would like to report it as a problem12:50
DizietKeybuk: No, what I mean, is are you sure that that's what the CSS says the font should be.12:51
KeybukDiziet: yeah, used dominspector on it12:54
Keybukfirefox thinks the font should be "caption"12:54
DizietI say `fc-match caption' and it wants to use DejaVu Sans.12:54
mdzKeybuk,Diziet: speaking of which font the GUI is using, my firefox has been doing this all week: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/Screenshot.png12:55
Keybukquest scott% fc-match caption12:55
KeybukDejaVuSans.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Book"12:55
mdzI have no idea how it chooses that font12:55
mdzbut it's ginormous12:55
DizietKeybuk: You want `caption:anymetrics=1' at the very least.12:56
mdzit's only my profile which is busticated12:56
KeybukDiziet: huh?12:56
DizietWhat do you have set in the fonts preferneces ?12:56
Keybukassume I know nothing about font selection12:56
=== dborg [n=daniel@e182063223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Diziet(And damn, the font prefs box is still too damn small!)12:57
KeybukDiziet: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/firefox-fonts-prefs.png12:57
mdzabsolutely everything with 'font' in the name under about:config is set to default12:57
DizietKeybuk: Not you, I can reproduce your LP problem.12:58
Dizietmdz: That's nice.  Ummm.12:58
KeybukDiziet: by the magical process of going one-by-one through the font list, I can tell you that it's picked FreeSerif as my font-of-choice for textarea12:58
Dizietmdz: What about the dpi setting ?12:58
mdzDiziet: 7212:59
DizietIs that correct ?12:59
mdzwhich is pretty close to correct for my laptop display12:59
mdzwhich is 14" diagonal, 1024x76812:59
mdzaha, setting that to 96 (default) fixes it01:00
mdzhow ridiculous that a lower dpi setting causes larger fonts to be used; that's backwards01:00
mdzDiziet: thanks01:00
DizietThe whole dpi thing is a complete nightmare.01:00
Keybukmdz: what's your font-render01:00
mdzit doesn't take effect until firefox is restarted01:00
Keybukignore that01:01
DizietWe've made rendering randomly break for the vast majority of people who want fonts to be a particular size in pixels, to make life easier for the few people who can afford absurdly high res displays just to make it pretty.01:02
mdzhow have we done that exactly?01:02
DizietBy making things depend (in a flakey way) on the (often inaccurate) dpi setting.01:03
lifelessDiziet: most screens sold these days are > 100 dpi01:03
Dizietlifeless: Surely not.  Most of them are LCDs nowadays ?01:03
lifelessalso note that gnomes handling of DPI is rather broken.01:03
lifelesseven though X often gets it right01:03
lifelessDiziet: yes, and the resolutions they are selling at are high dpi - my last three laptops have all been > 100 dpi, without me trying for that specifically.01:04
lifelesslast one was 144, current one is 12001:04
dholbachpitti: you have time to join us at the HUG DAY in #ubuntu-bugs?01:04
lifelessI dont recall the last time I saw a < 100 dpi new machine of any sort.01:04
mdzlifeless: I'm typing at one right now01:04
DizietI don't think most people are buying such fancy laptops :-).01:04
pittidholbach: I'll join and try to read a bit01:04
KeybukDiziet: >100 dpi screens are standard these days01:04
lifelessmdz: ok, I've seen one now :)01:04
Keybukeven on the cheap laptops01:04
DizietPretty much all desktop flatpanels are more like 72.01:05
lifelessDiziet: Seriously, not fancy to get this.01:05
mdzand in fact I just had a friend return a laptop because the display resolution was too high01:05
lifelessmdz: wow.01:05
KeybukDiziet: my cheap desktop panel is 120 dpi or something01:05
mdzhe's a web designer, and needs to see things layed out similarly to most casual users01:05
Diziet1280x1024 and really tiny ?01:05
mdzlaid01:05
lifelessmdz: yah. dpi matters tonnes. I find things are usually ok if I go into every possible place and set it to match the hardware01:06
lifelessbut thats asking a lot of users01:06
mdzlifeless: that'll still never give you a good correspondence between images and text on web pages01:06
lifelessimages have a defined dpi01:07
lifelesslet me grab the reference01:07
mdzyou need to use larger fonts to make things readable, and that'll change the ratio01:07
mdzimages for the web are usually ~72dpi01:07
lifelesslarger font? I usually run at 7pt these days01:07
Fjodormvo: Thanks for suggesting, but no. And Danish chars actually work fine in other apps, just not emacs01:08
Keybukthe whole dpi/font thing is a mess01:08
Keybukespecially not helped by gnome hard-coding it at 96dpi for everything because "most monitors lie"01:08
lifelessmdz: the /defined/ dpi for gif etc images is 72 dpi, and browsers are expected to scale the images.01:09
jdubare malone+reportbug doing useful things for us in dapper?01:09
lifelessKeybuk: 100% ack on that01:09
mdzlifeless: they don't, and if they did, it would look like crap anyway01:09
dholbachjdub: no.01:09
=== jdub furrows brow.
Keybukjdub: rewriting reportbug from scratch would be a large task01:10
Keybukdespite some people's claims to the contrary, it isn't generic and "pluggable"01:10
Kamionjdub: Malone's mail interface needs a GPG signature; if that weren't the case it would be fairly trivial01:10
jdubKeybuk: it can't mail to some useful malone entry point?01:10
jdubKamion: aha01:10
lifelesssorry, my bad - 96 dpi is the reference.01:10
jdubis that fixable?01:10
lifelesshttp://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#x3901:10
KinnisonKamion: I thought malone no longer required gpg sigs01:10
Kamionit's policy ...01:10
Keybukjdub: reportbug does a huge amount of wget and grep on the web interface to offer lists of packages, currently open bugs, etc.01:10
KinnisonKamion: but I might be wrong01:10
KamionKinnison: on new bugs, AFAIK, it does?01:11
Kamionmaybe that's changed01:11
KeybukKamion: if you think it's trivial, *you* can rewrite reportbug01:11
mdzKamion: removing that requirement would be trivial as well, if not for the fact that we don't accept anonymous or unauthenticated bug reports01:11
KamionKeybuk: I've hacked reportbug in small ways before, it's not hard to make it talk to a slightly different mail interface. you're right that the web interface munging is hard to change01:12
Kamionbut disabling that would be better than the current situation01:12
KeybukKamion: whoever's been maintaining reportbug recently has been making it very hard to bypass the web interface stuff01:12
mdzlifeless: everyone I know who publishes web content for a broad audience would disagree; I think it's safe to say that your hardware purchases (and most of the rest of ours) are atypical01:12
jdubKamion: (i didn't expect to hear complaints about it as often as i have)01:12
KamionAFAIK the person who's been maintaining it recently is the same person who always has; have you talked to him about it?01:13
Keybukpersonally I think we should just drop reportbug01:13
lifelessmdz: I can agree that our purchases may be atypical. But I'm not sure that the atypicality we display implies that the 'typical' purchase is still 96 dpi.01:14
lifelessanyway, I've injected the info about the standards that I wanted to01:14
Keybukthe only useful purpose reportbug serves is for allowing Debian developers to file bugs into the Debian bts01:14
lifelessso it over to you guys 01:14
Keybuklikewise "bts"01:14
KeybukI would be surprised if there's anyone here who hasn't got "bts debian" in their .reportbugrc01:14
=== Harti [n=Harti@dslb-082-083-249-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandir.reportbugrc? :-P01:16
mdzKeybuk: I agree that shipping reportbug by default has turned out to be not such a good idea01:16
Keybukreportbug isn't that useful for us01:19
Keybukit's handy in Debian where the BTS has requirements about package names, versions, tags, etc.01:19
KeybukMalone doesn't have any of that; you just give the name of the package and the bug description01:19
mdzit's handy in Debian where it can talk to the bug tracking system01:20
Keybukdholbach: ping01:21
dholbachKeybuk: pong01:22
Keybukdholbach: is it easy to turn Tango icons into Tangerine icons?01:23
Keybukand how would I get icons added to both themes?01:24
dholbachKeybuk: you might want to ask andreasn or lapo - they really know their stuff.01:24
Keybukwhere would I find them?  they're not on here01:24
dholbachKeybuk: for tango upstream mailing list or bugs.freedesktop.org01:24
Keybukgnargh01:25
=== phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybukthat's not really the kind of answer I was hoping for01:25
Keybukthis is Ubuntu-specific really01:25
Keybuknm ships GNOME-style icons01:25
Keybuksomeone's done Tango-style icons for it01:25
Keybukand obviously we'd want Tangerine-style01:25
dholbachKeybuk: for tangerine branch from http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/tangerine/ and tell Andreas Nilsson to merge from it or file a bug in launchpad for tangerine-icon-theme01:25
Keybukhow do I get it to have all three?01:25
mdkehow does one file a bug about words which aren't in spell checkers? Go straight upstream to openoffice, or to launchpad?01:26
dholbachtangerine-icon-theme bug report01:26
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has left #ubuntu-devel []
Kinnisonmdke: people have been filing bugs in launchpad for aspell dictionaries01:26
KamionBenC: linux-source-2.6.15 FTBFS on i386, if you didn't see; I'd like to avoid NEWing the others until i386 is fixed, if you don't mind01:26
Keybukwhat about tango?  tango-icon-theme bug report?01:26
Mithrandirmdke: depends on the language, I'd guess.  Most aren't built by ooo upstream.01:26
Kinnisonmdke: but I have yet to work out how to add them sanely01:26
mdkeKinnison, openoffice uses a different dictionary, doesn't it?01:26
Kamionoh, but it's a weird segfault on the buildd, hmm01:26
Kinnisonmdke: not sure01:26
mdkebah, /me just adds the word01:27
Kamionhmm, maybe not, looks like a file that the doc processing system wants got moved01:27
Mithrandirmdke: ooo uses myspell01:27
mdkeMithrandir, ok. Is there a good reason there is more than one type of dict?01:28
mdkegah, openoffice itself seems to have three potential dicts to add words to: standard.dic, Ubuntu.dic and soffice.dic. Confusing...01:29
Mithrandirmdke: unsure, I just maintain the Norwegian dictionary and build them all from the same source.01:30
Kamionheno: please arrange for xcursor-themes to be added to some appropriate seed; we don't generally promote things until the seeds tell us to01:30
henoKamion: so that would be the desktop seed then, since it should appear when choosing F5-option 101:32
Keybukhmm01:33
=== Harti [n=Harti@dslb-082-083-249-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["-carpe]
KeybukI wonder if I ship the icons as /usr/share/icons/Tango (as well as /icons/hicolor) does that work?01:33
Kamionheno: that sounds reasonable01:35
Lathiata01:35
mdkepitti, my computer appears not to have remember that I activated cups detection yesterday. I had to activate it again today. Known?01:35
Kamionheno: although check with the desktop team01:35
Keybukhmm01:35
Keybukhow does hicolor work?01:35
henoKamion: ok, I've pinged dholbach about it01:35
KeybukI have my icon theme set to "GNOME", so how do the hicolor icons get picked?01:35
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
DizietWell, the use of `caption' as a `font-family' is wrong according to CSS 2.1.01:37
pittimdke: no, actually not01:38
mdzBenC: i386 kernel build failed after 4 hours, https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/18666801:39
pittimdke: before and after you enable it, what's the contents of /etc/cups/cups.d/browsing?01:39
pittimdke: /etc/cups/cups.d/browse.conf even01:39
mdkepitti, I'll do a bug with that info. Anything else you want?01:39
pittimdke: your main /etc/cups/cupsd.conf could be interesting, if you modified it01:40
mdzBenC: looks like the kernel itself built fine but docproc segfaulted01:40
mdkepitti, no, haven't touched anything01:40
pittimdke: I still have to test browsing and such with the latest version, but thanks for the bug01:40
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdongare there any updates on us and the new fglrx?01:43
=== holy_cow [n=a@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
holy_cowmornin guys01:45
holy_cowi need to add some icons to the top gnome panel via command line ... where is that config stored?01:45
Treenaksholy_cow: in gconf01:46
Treenaksso you should/could use gconf-editor and gconftool-201:46
Treenaks(theoretically)01:46
holy_cowTreenaks, really?ah!01:46
holy_cowwell i'm doing this via ssh ... would be neat if i could have a gconf-editor manager remote boxen :)01:47
holy_cowk, lemme lookup where this info might be01:47
holy_cowthank Treenaks 01:47
mdkepitti, bug #4053901:47
UbugtuMalone bug 40539 in cupsys "Failure to remember that Browsing was activated" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4053901:47
pittimdke: thanks01:47
Treenaksholy_cow: this is more of a #ubuntu question btw, and you might want to look at sabayon too01:47
holy_cowreally? i didn't think anyone there would have a clue what gconf is :)01:48
KamionMithrandir: could you please merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/casper/ubiquity/ ? We need to coordinate uploads of that and ubiquity (nee espresso), so if you want me to do both of them at once, I can01:48
Treenaksholy_cow: really, they do :)01:48
holy_cowk. sorry didn't meant to raise the noise level here :)01:48
pittimdke: ok, browse.conf looks fine; does /etc/cups/cupsd.conf include it?01:48
pittimdke: "Include /etc/cups/cups.d/browse.conf" at the very end01:49
MithrandirKamion: Do you want it done now or soon?01:50
KamionMithrandir: now's good01:50
KamionMithrandir: (if convenient)01:50
MithrandirKamion: I have a few bugs I want to squash in casper, but if you want it now, just upload yourself.01:50
KamionMithrandir: ok, I'll do it so that we can get the rename out of the way and carry on with real work01:50
MithrandirKamion: sure.01:51
mdkepitti, yes. All of this data is from the situation that it is working, I can't tell you what those files said when I saw the bug01:51
pittimdke: oh, if it's working, then they are useless, right01:52
pittimdke: do they change after a reboot?01:52
=== KOnsumer [n=KOnsumer@87.193.17.77] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== soumyadip [n=soumyadi@59.93.200.216] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdkepitti, no, I can't reproduce it just by rebooting. I think it must have been yesterday's upgrade that did it01:53
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittimdke: hm, yesterdays update did nothing but change the group of /var/run/cups, but that seems quite irrelevant01:54
mdkeoh01:56
mdkepitti, I'm fairly sure I didn't touch anything else01:56
KamionMithrandir: done. The changelog diff for release is in that branch now as well.01:57
MithrandirKamion: thanks; merged.01:58
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-133-224.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-133-224.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has left #ubuntu-devel ["http://mpt.net.nz/"]
=== LeeJunFan [n=junfan@s64-186-37-120.skycon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== KOnsumer [i=konsumer@drsd-d9b85d1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dholbachKeybuk: if you want to talk to lapo, he's in #ubuntu-desktop02:19
Keybukdholbach: thanks02:22
=== j^ [n=j@e178031245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mat|work [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionmvo: I'm testing a backport of that apt-ftparchive .dsc handling fix now. If it works, would you mind if I uploaded it to breezy-updates, so that we can easily install it on little and maybe drescher and stuff?02:38
=== Max_Littlemore [i=simonl@c210-49-207-95.thoms1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KinnisonKamion: changing apt-ftparchive will result in needing to regenerate the caches IIRC02:39
KinnisonKamion: just as a warning02:40
Kamionok - definitely want it on little though, even if not drescher02:40
mvoKamion: just the patch that fixes the issue? sure, uploading it to breezy-updates should be ok02:41
mvoKinnison: I don't think that this is required (if we only backport the fix)02:42
Kamionyeah, just that four-line patch or whatever it is02:42
Kinnisonmvo: drescher currently runs hoary's apt-ftparchive I think02:42
mvoonly the current (not-yet-released) apt-ftparchive needs cache regeneration02:42
mvooh02:42
mvook :)02:42
Kinnisonmvo: because of the bug :-)02:42
=== mvo coughs
MithrandirTheMuso: any chance you could look at the a11y-related casper bugs?  (Possibly together with heno?)02:45
TheMusoMithrandir: I'm on it. Just waiting for a package to be promoted to main and seeded to add the final piece to one of the profiles.02:46
MithrandirTheMuso: cool, thanks.02:46
=== zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-devel
zulheylo02:49
=== OculusAquilae [n=oculus@pD9509C92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mat [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== KaiL_ [n=KaiL@p548F7F2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Max_Littlemoredon't mean to interrupt, but is anyone looking at realtime audio? - (it is kind of important now that mac is intel)03:02
=== Huahua [n=hua_@222.50.182.57] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mjg59Max_Littlemore: Yes, but I don't understand your justification...03:03
ograwhat makes it more important on mac intels than on other machines ? 03:04
dholbachmdke: bug 40492 for you and the gang.03:07
UbugtuMalone bug 40492 in ubuntu-docs "Error in 4.1.10. Open files with administrative privileges from the file manager" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4049203:07
jsgotangcoi see it03:08
dholbachjsgotangco, mdke: if you guys want me to make an update, that one should be easy to fix with it03:08
dholbachand maybe you should make another call for test reading03:09
jsgotangcoits from the desktop guide nice spotting03:09
=== robertj [n=rcaskey@cai17.music.uga.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdkedholbach, not sure about whether to fix it.03:12
dholbachhm? it mentions two different file names03:13
mdkeyes, it's a bug, but will require a string freeze exception03:13
dholbachwho approves these exceptions?03:14
jsgotangcoits an obvious string bug, you're only going to change 1 string it won't even break translations03:14
dholbachthe release team?03:14
mdkedholbach, we kinda decide ourselves03:14
dholbachah i see03:15
mdkejsgotangco, it will break the translation, but probably it's worth it at this stage03:15
jsgotangcoi dunno, your call there's a reason why we're in public beta03:15
Max_Littlemoresorry, left the room. mjg59,ogra. Mac has a good history of music types who understand nix bout pootahs making sound. - for me debian is good, but i wish i didn't have to futz around for so long03:16
Max_Littlemorewe need a new jack03:16
mjg59Max_Littlemore: I still don't understand the justification, though I'll agree that it's a worthwhile goal (and is being worked on)03:17
=== mh21_ [n=mh21@ip54576d93.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittioh DEAR03:19
Mithrandirhm?03:19
pittimh21_, Keybuk: it seems I finally found out why cups' web interface doesn't ever ask for authentication03:19
mdzdholbach: I purged dasher yesterday, but it's still in the menu.   icon cache problem?03:19
pittidue to the clever code, the cups server presents its own certifiate to itself and thus accepts everybody03:19
pittiGO CUPS03:19
Mithrandirpitti: hahahaha. :-)03:20
pittisorry for the noise, but this just drove me up the wall...03:20
fabbionepitti: ahahaha03:20
mh21_pitti: Why not for root access?03:20
dholbachmdz: dasher-data problem03:20
pittimh21_: I assume it tries to setuid() away from root to an user/group which can't read the local cert any more03:21
pittimh21_: and that fails if cupsd already runs as non-root03:21
mdzdholbach: aha, thanks03:21
pittimdz: thanks for the approval, btw, I'll upload cups as soon as I fixed this damn authentication bug03:21
dholbachmdz: we got a bug report about that - we really should get the automatic apt removal stuff in for edgy :-)03:21
Keybukpitti: lol03:21
Max_Littlemoremjg59 if it is being worked on, let me help. (I have a few ideas to make it easier - like a new jack) The justification is that other systems do it 'out of the box'. While this is not Ubuntu's mission, the handles should be created to make it easy. Otherwise, people like me prefer OSX to do audio, and then have to log out to use gaim. WHERE DO i GO TO HELP?03:22
=== mako___ [n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdkedholbach, fixed, but no need to upload unless you want to.03:22
dholbachmdke: you have some other good stuff pending?03:23
dholbachoh, it's been a week - let's do it :)03:23
mdkedholbach, no03:23
mdkedholbach, I'm going to upload some translations tomorrow, so you can wait until then if you like03:24
dholbachmdke: ok, just drop me a mail, once you did it03:24
mdkewill do, thanks03:24
dholbachthanks03:24
=== mh21_ [n=mh21@ip54576d93.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzdholbach: any reason not to move the .desktop file into the dasher package? it should accompany the executable program03:25
Amaranthyou could always just hide it with alacarte :)03:26
dholbachmdz: hum... yes - it makes sense03:27
Max_Littlemore< just wait till you have children - if you have children > hello? -- do we like music>03:28
tsengMax_Littlemore: you don't have to exagerate and talk in capital letters to make your point03:28
Max_LittlemoreI didn't mean to. sorry03:29
tsengMax_Littlemore: crimsun is the developer most interested in sound related bits, maybe see if he is interested without pressuring him03:29
Max_LittlemoreI would like to find crimson... but how?03:30
jdubseb128, dholbach: shouldn't python2.4-avahi be in desktop seed?03:31
Max_Littlemorenewbie to all this anarchy:-[03:31
tsenghe's right here, probably working on something else right this minute03:31
dholbachjdub: what is using it?03:31
=== mh21_ is now known as mh21
seb128jdub: anything needs it?03:31
dholbachjdub: or for the PythonUberAlles goal? :-p03:31
jdubavahi-discover, service-discovery-applet, general python love03:31
jdubit should at least be in main03:31
seb128avahi-discover is not to desktop03:32
Max_Littlemorethank you tseng03:32
jdubbut i think it's important to have as one of our python developer platform libs03:32
seb128bah03:32
jdubseb128: python2.4-avahi is stuck in universe atm - doesn't seem right 8)03:32
seb128I would rather like have better l10n that ton of useless python if you ask me03:32
jdubseb128: well, there is a bunch of junk in there, but avahi is more useful than a lot of the junk python stuff we ship03:32
seb128jdub: no, main would be nice. But space on CD is limited ...03:33
Kamionbloody hell, the stupid xserver-xorg-input-synaptics version number managed to break source CDs03:33
seb128jdub: right, I agree with that03:33
=== j_ack [n=nico@p508D8B02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubbzr is still in universe too03:33
seb128jdub: if you find some stuff to clean and put it instead go for it I would say :)03:33
jdubseb128: sounds like a challenge03:34
seb128yeah03:35
jdubhrm, can thoggen use gstreamer 0.10 yet?03:35
seb128slomo was discussion with tim__ about that yesterday I think03:35
seb128discussing03:35
jdubcool03:35
seb128avr 20 19:02:42 <sxpert-work>   __tim: how is thoggen 0.10 coming ?03:36
seb128avr 20 19:02:44 *       sxpert-work runs :D03:36
seb128avr 20 19:02:57 <__tim> sxpert-work: got it working locally, minus cropping dialog and preview03:36
zulKamion: : ping03:36
Kamionzul: hi03:36
seb128jdub: maybe next week ;)03:36
zulwhy is their reiserfs4 support in the installer when there isnt in the kernel?03:36
Kamionzul: bug 3207503:37
UbugtuMalone bug 32075 in gparted "installing to reiser4 partition doesn't seem to work" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3207503:37
zulah ok...03:37
jdongzul: is it a subtle hint that someone wants a certain kernel patch for Edgy? ;)03:42
jdubseb128: also, gimp-svg should be added to main/desktop03:42
KamionI certainly hope not03:42
Kamion(to jdong)03:43
jdonglol03:43
zuljdong: no way in hell03:43
=== olemke [n=olemke@p54895927.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdongjust a joke, guys03:43
jdongtake it easy03:43
=== Max_Littlemore [i=simonl@c210-49-207-95.thoms1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel []
jdong:)03:43
dholbachKamion: did you move xcursor-themes to main yet?03:44
seb128jdub: right03:44
Kamiondholbach: needs to be seeded03:44
dholbachKamion: i did that :)03:44
Kamiondholbach: done, then03:45
dholbachKamion: merci beaucoup!03:46
Kamionde rien03:46
=== dholbach is our for a walk
dholbachsee you in a bit03:46
ograbah, we're turning ito a french channel here 03:46
=== giftnudel [n=mb@p54B29824.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamiondholbach: you don't need to say "merged" in seed commits when all you did was pull03:47
Kamionit looks a bit weird to see a log message that says "merged" but there's no actual merge ...03:47
dholbachKamion: you're right - I'll respect that the next time.03:48
dokoinfinity: do the buildd's have /etc/services and /etc/protocols installed?03:48
=== mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Riddell nidges pitti torwards the UbuntuMainInclusionQueue packages he said he'd do before beta
=== pitti whistles innocently
pittiRiddell: sorry03:49
Mithrandirdoko: you can't count on it.  Netbase's is priority: important.03:50
Riddellpitti: just so long as they havn't fallen off the top of your todo list :)03:50
dokoMithrandir: thanks, currently walking through testsuite results03:51
=== bddebian [n=bdefrees@mail.ottens.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirwould anybody be very sad if casper never picked !utf-8 locales by default?03:52
pittiMithrandir: oh, does it ATM?03:53
pittiMithrandir: since we optimized our system to be UTF-8 and assume that in several places...03:53
bddebianMorning peoples03:53
Mithrandirpitti: it just picks the first one it finds.  Which may or may not be UTF-8.03:53
Mithrandir(first one from /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED)03:53
pittiMithrandir: would it be possible to take the first UTF-8 one, and only if that doesn't exist, take the first one?03:54
Mithrandirpitti: anything's possible. :-)03:54
Mithrandirpitti: but there are no locales where we don't have an UTF-8 equivalent.03:55
pittinow, that's good! :)03:55
KamionI think I'd agree with changing it to pick only UTF-803:57
KamionRiddell: could you merge the Kubuntu seeds? I tried but it seems kinda complex due to the merge of -server into dapper03:58
=== freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.5] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KamionRiddell: you're OK to merge my ubiquity branch now, btw03:58
RiddellKamion: two merges coming up03:59
=== Kamion will do the Edubuntu merge
MithrandirKamion: will gfxboot ever pass debian-installer/locale=.*UTF-8 on the kernel command line?03:59
ograKamion, thanks04:00
KamionMithrandir: I suppose it could if you want it to04:01
MithrandirKamion: nah, I'll just make it cope either way.04:01
Kamionalthough that would make life awkward for d-i, so probably not04:01
Kamionbecause the intent is only to preseed the language, not the country04:01
Kamion(unless the country matters to the language, i.e. pt and zh)04:01
Mithrandiryup04:01
lifelessgnight04:05
=== Mithrandir wonders how to detect the correct time zone on the live cd.
=== janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-devel
DizietIs there some random Ubuntu-specific package I can make {ubuntu,kubuntu,xubuntu,edubuntu}-docs and m-f-l-all build-depend on without trouble ?04:07
pittiKeybuk: hm, cupsd itself runs as cupsys:lp, not as group lpadmin; so what I would prefer instead is to reflect that in the adduser call and make lp the primary group of cupsys (and lpadmin an auxiliary one); is that fine for you?04:07
DizietI want a common source for a locale list.04:07
pittiKeybuk: (instead of changing the group of /var/run/cups)04:07
=== mxpxpod [n=BryanFor@unaffiliated/mxpxpod] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybukpitti: I didn't _change_ the group of /var/run/cups04:08
Keybukit had that group in the package04:08
MithrandirDiziet: why should it be ubuntu-specific?04:08
Keybuk        chown -R cupsys /var/run/cups04:09
Keybuk        if [ -f /etc/printcap ] ; then04:09
Keybuk            chgrp lpadmin /etc/printcap04:09
Keybuk            chmod 664 /etc/printcap04:09
Keybuk        fi04:09
Keybuk^ from cupsys postinst04:09
Keybukuh, just the first line you wanted, obviously :p04:09
KeybukI just fixed the init script to match the package04:09
pittiKeybuk: ah, I see; right04:10
Dizietmithrandir: Because this mad scheme for firefox start page translation is Ubuntu specific ?04:11
MithrandirDiziet: it's therefore a problem if the list of locales exists in other distributions too?04:12
DizietErr, I meant a package which *ubuntu owns and which is only in soyuz, as opposed to (say) debhelper :-).04:12
Diziet(Which is also in Debian and other Debian derivatives.)04:13
DizietSo I mean *ubuntu-specific, not specific to ubuntu as opposed to *?ubuntu.04:13
Mithrandirlocales has a list of all supported locales in /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED04:13
DizietNo, I don't want that because this list has to change less often04:13
Mithrandiruh, less often than the list of locales we support?04:14
DizietPossibly, yes.04:15
DizietChanging this list is a faff and involves rebuilding at least 5 packages.04:15
DizietAnd the resulting binaries aren't quite runtime compatible in a way that isn't expressible as a dependency.04:15
Diziet(No great disasters happen if there's a mismatch, but you can have firefox come up and not be able to find its start page.)04:16
infinitydoko: Only if you build-dep on netbase, which provides those files.04:20
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dokoinfinity: yep, already added as a build-dep04:21
=== bddebian pounces on infinity
Lathiatso the LTS cd is sexy04:22
Lathiatmjg59: what was your horrible alps workaround?04:23
mjg59Lathiat: If it detects that it's an alps, it sets different default values04:24
mjg59I think the Debian guys were going to push it upstream04:24
Lathiatah ok04:25
=== Gman [n=gman@nwkea-socks-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pitti uploads cups and breaks the world
bddebianw000t, go pitti04:26
giftnudelI also want to mention here, that the live cd out of the box installation doesn't hibernate, see bug 39237 (since you're all praising the cd)04:27
UbugtuMalone bug 39237 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Resuming from hibernation fails" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3923704:27
DizietI see no-one has an answer for my `I need some random package to depend on' question.04:27
DizietI suppose I could invent one.  Or I could make {k,x,ed}ubuntu-docs and m-f-l-all build-depend on ubuntu-docs.04:28
infinityDiziet: Hrm?  What are we mangling here?04:28
DizietIt's to do with DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation, which is a bit of a hack really.04:29
DizietThere's a master list of relevantly-translateable locales which has to be the same in *ubuntu-docs and m-f-l-all.04:29
infinityRight.  Just read backscroll.04:29
DizietAll that these packages need is the list, but there's nowhere convenient for them to get it.04:30
infinityI'd just toss the master list in ubuntu-docs, since any change made there needs to be mirrored in the other *-{docs,artwork} packages anyway.04:30
infinityIt's not ideal, but it works fine for now.04:30
Diziet(The build arrangements for *?ubuntu-docs would probably appreciate a little script to help out with generating the links.)04:30
DizietOK, so it's OK for those to build-depend on ubuntu-docs ?04:30
DizietI'm always a bit wary of adding new build dependencies in these kind of situations.04:31
infinityOr, you could make the m-f-l-all source package spit out a binary package that provides the current list.04:31
Dizietinfinity: Right, I did consider that.  But its build system is a complete nightmare.04:31
DizietWeirdo templateified debian/control.04:31
Diziet(For very good reasons, but.)04:31
infinityIt's ugly, but simple enough to add one little binary package.04:31
DizietIf I'm going to invent a new package I'll have ubuntu-docs spit it out.04:32
infinityAnd generating it is as simple os listing the XPIs.04:32
DizietOh, no, it's much more complicated than that.04:32
DizietBecause XPIs might turn up later.04:32
infinityWell, what SHOULD define the master list, really?  The list of XPIs we ship (from m-f-l-all) would seem to be the definitive list.04:32
bddebianHeya LaserJock04:32
infinitySo, if pitti adds a new locale, rebuilding the -docs packages just picks it up magically.04:32
DizietThe list is everything we ship now _plus_ anything we think might plausibly turn up in the future.04:33
DizietBecause changing the list is much harder than adding an xpi.04:33
infinityErr, why that?  It doesn't hurt to rebuild the packages to match the current XPI list.04:33
infinityAnd if the other packages are automating their mess based on the XPI list, then yay.04:33
DizietTo change the list you have to rebuild at least five packages and the dependencies don't stop the user from producing a system which can't find its firefox start page.04:34
DizietSo really we have to settle on the list before release and not change it later, or at least try hard not to.04:34
DizietThis is why the master list has to be somewhere separate and really under human control.04:35
infinityMmkay.  Then ubuntu-docs seems a reasonable fit for now.04:35
DizietRight.  Fair enough.04:35
DizietIf the extra build-dep isn't a problem then that's a good answer.04:35
infinityHopefully, the whole hack can be rethought later.04:35
infinityI don't see that anyone would complain about the build-dep.04:36
infinityIt even, in an odd way, makes the fact that *-docs are all related and all need to get along be a bit more obvious.04:37
infinityWhich may prevent people from repeating the messes we saw in breezy. :)04:37
mjg59So I booted my machine in SF time04:38
mjg59Now I'm back in the UK and I've changed my timezone04:38
mjg59I haven't rebooted04:38
mjg59cron.daily now runs during the middle of the afternoon04:38
mjg59DEAR LEGACY UNIX, PLS DIE, KTHXBI04:39
infinityMakes perfect sense to me, since cron's been running from init.04:39
infinity /etc/init.d/cron restart && echo Yay04:40
infinityOf course, syslog and the rest of the world is off too.04:40
mjg59infinity: Oh, I know /why/ it happens, and it makes sense in the same way that dying in a car crash when you weren't wearing a seatbelt makes sense04:40
infinityDear world, stop computing in timezones other than UTC.04:40
sladenhave the locales crack to restart cron04:40
mjg59It's predictable, it's just not /right/04:40
LaserJockDiziet: got a second? I was wondering how the Ubuntu Developer's Reference was going04:41
infinityWell, it's a fair wishlist bug to ask cron to reinit its envionment when it does its cleanup each minute, I suppose.04:41
infinityMuch as it's a decent wishlist to ask logging daemons to just log in UTC, and ignore local time altogether.04:41
mjg59infinity: Utterly agreed on the latter04:42
infinityWell, it nicely solves the headache of DST, too.04:42
infinityDST + logfiles = confused sysadmin, twice a year.04:43
mjg59Yeah, logviewers should eal with it04:43
infinityI don't think I ever really got over that confusion (except by setting all my machines to UTC)04:43
Keybukactually, it'd be nice if the log file viewer automatically converted the log file times to whatever localtime you're currently viewing them in04:43
infinityOH LOOK, 2:30 HAPPENED TWICE LAST NIGHT, YAY!04:43
Keybuksadly when the boffins came up with UNIX, they didn't expect anyone to be moving machines across timezones04:44
infinityThe scarier one, of course, is when you go ther other direction and you immediately assume that "all my logfiles are missing an hour" means "oh shit, we were broken into, and someone did a crap job cleaning up"04:44
Keybukafter all, they were the size of large buildings04:44
infinityThen you remember the whole clock changing business and calm down.04:45
LaserJockheh, you're supposed to actually look at logs? ;-)04:48
infinityThis is another one of the hilarious ironies about Windows NT, actually.04:48
infinityWinNT does everything internally in UTC, converts all values to local time for the user in displays... But STILL ISISTS ON HAVING THE HARDWARE CLOCK IN LOCAL TIME.04:49
infinitySo, what's the first tihng NT has to do on boot?  Convert the local clock to UTC, so its internal clock is correct.04:49
infinitySay what?04:49
LaserJockwha? that seem a bit dumb04:49
mjg59infinity: Not strictly true. There's a registry key that gets it to assume the hardware clock is UTC04:50
jsgotangcoyeah04:50
infinityIt's just legacy, since PCs traditionally have local time in the BIOS, I assume.  Ease of dual-booting with DOS-based systems when they were first developing NT.04:50
infinityBut still messed up.04:50
mjg59Except that breaks over suspend/resume or if you use the Visual Studio debugger04:50
LarstiQmjg59: ooh, that would be useful04:50
infinitymjg59: Ahh, I've not found that key.  But it's clearly not set by default.04:50
infinityBreaks suspend/resume?  Cute bug.04:51
mjg59http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/mswish/ut-rtc.html04:51
infinityNice to know we're not the only ones that can't always get that right.04:51
mjg59infinity: NT used to run on machines that had the hardware clocks in UTC, so04:52
mjg59But they never suspended04:52
infinityYeah, fair point.04:52
mjg59HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation\RealTimeIsUniversal - not sure if it's in XP, was there in 200004:52
infinityIf it's there in 2K, it's in XP.04:53
mjg59Oh, it's still in XP04:53
infinityCan't vouch for Vista, though.04:53
infinityBut 2K->XP was a pretty minor version bump, they barely touched internals like this.04:53
mjg59"There is RealTimeIsUniversal registry entry and it almost work but during04:54
mjg59the hours around the daylight change system will use 100% of processor time."04:54
infinityInteresting read.04:56
infinityI may just flip that bit ony Zofia's machine and see what happens.04:56
infinityI've never had to attach a kernel debugger to her machine, so that concern is out.04:56
infinityAnd it never suspends.04:57
infinityI can see why both those operations would get messed up by it, though, since both are very early boot-time things that probably happen before walking the registry.04:58
=== bddebian [n=bdefrees@mail.ottens.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== nikusan [n=dan@d211-31-216-116.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
carlosRiddell: hi05:05
carlosaround?05:05
Riddellcarlos: hi05:06
carlosRiddell: seems like kdegraphics lacks the .pot files05:06
=== giftnudel [n=mb@p54B29824.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
carlosand I have a bunch of .po files pending to be imported because that05:07
carlosare you going to upload an update soon that would create the .pot files?05:07
Riddellcarlos: buildlogs do indeed lack any use of gettext, let me see why05:09
Riddellcarlos: in the mean time you can import koffice 1.5 if you want http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/k/koffice-l10n/koffice-l10n_1.5.0.orig.tar.gz05:09
carlossamething with kdeaddons, kdesdk and I think others... I'm checking all them now...05:10
carlosRiddell: are you going to promote it to main?05:10
Riddellcarlos: I thought you said importing it directly to rosetta would be the best idea05:11
Riddellhmm, possibly those are the packages that don't use cdbs05:11
carlosRiddell: oh, ok, sorry, that's one of those 'empty' packages05:12
carlosRiddell: hmmm, I really hate the way KDE stores .po files... that package needs more code on my side to support that specific case...05:15
carlosI'm going to do it locally for this firts import, but I will need to develop something for new updates :-(05:16
carlosto do it automatically05:16
carlosRiddell: hmm, this is interesting... kde-i18n-* packages have translations for binaries that we don't have in main, is that what we want? (I'm talking, for instance, about kdevelop)05:17
carlosand kdeaccessibility05:18
carlosaren't those core parts of KDE?05:18
carloswell, not core but important...05:18
Riddellcarlos: kde-i18n includes all the .po files for all the KDE modules, but not all the KDE modules are in main05:21
Riddellkdevelop3 gets broken randomly mostly because it's renamed from kdevelop05:22
Riddellkdeaccessibility I'd like for dapper+1 so we can do a CD boot option like ubuntu has05:22
carlosRiddell: I guess is ok If I ignore those .po files for dapper, right? I don't think you are going to move them to main before release :-P05:22
Riddellcarlos: yeah, that's fine05:23
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mathrick|away is now known as mathrick
=== jpatrick [n=patrick@ubuntu/member/jpatrick] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Riddellcarlos: I've fixed kdegraphics, kdeaddons and kdesdk, doing a test compile them uploading05:30
Riddellcarlos: any others having that problem?05:30
carlosRiddell: cool, thanks05:30
carlosRiddell: no that I'm aware of05:30
carlosRiddell: the others are packages that are on universe05:31
carlosIf I detect anyone I will ping you again05:31
carlosRiddell: thanks05:31
Riddellcarlos: are you going to import k3b-i18n too?05:31
carlosbtw, would be possible to fix the .pot files that use UTF-8 but that the header doesn't say it?05:32
carlosRiddell: yeah, now that I'm with KOffice, I will do it at the same time05:32
Riddellcarlos: I suspect that will need some sed scripting or the like, I presume gettext-kde doesn't care about utf8 too much05:32
Riddellcarlos: what's the syntax needed?05:32
carlosRiddell: as an easy fix, you could generate all .pot files as being UTF-8 encoded as KDE uses UTF-8 and the ones in ASCII are aslo UTF-8 valid05:33
carlos"Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8\n"05:33
carlosRiddell: instead of whatever gettext-kde uses05:33
Riddellis there a gettext switch for that?05:33
carlosRiddell: hmm, let me check05:33
carlosI think it has one05:34
carlosRiddell: --from-code=UTF-805:35
carlosRiddell: but I'm not sure if KDE version has it, I think it appear one or two years ago05:35
Riddelldoesn't seem like kde-xgettext knows that05:35
carlosok05:36
Riddellso I can play around with adding it directly using a script05:36
carlosthen you will need to use sed05:36
carlosRiddell: yeah05:36
carlosyou should check that the .po file is using UTF-8 as a sanity check05:36
ograwho does the torrent seeds ? seems edubuntu isnt seeded 05:36
carloskonqueror is a good file to check it05:36
carlosI mean konqueror.pot05:36
Riddellyep05:37
=== Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
azeemKamion: ping05:44
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== koke [n=koke@ubuntu/member/koke] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Lathiathey guys05:56
Lathiatwhere does espresso hide its logs?05:56
jdubchecking for passwords? :)05:57
Lathiathaha05:58
Lathiatno05:58
Lathiatfiling too many bugs :)05:58
Lathiatgot one instance here where it keeps crashing out after partitioning05:58
Lathiatso trying to get some more data05:58
=== nmsa [n=alcatel@86.125.56.74] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Chipzzjdub: happy belated birthday ;)06:02
Lathiathrm.. it seems bittorrent has a tracker, and while theres no rc?d/S links06:02
Lathiatit has K links, so you see shutting down bittorrent tracker 06:02
Lathiaton default installs06:02
Lathiatthats a bit bad and ugly and theres a rather old bug about it06:02
Lathiathow do i harass someone about that? :)06:02
dholbachLathiat: /var/log/installer/espresso06:03
wasabiMorning folks.06:03
=== lamont [n=lamont@mib.fc.hp.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Lathiatah cheers dholbach 06:04
nmsaKamion06:05
nmsacan I ask you something ? are u available !?06:05
tsengKamion: debian policy says to ask base-passwd maintainer about using useradd, i need an unprivelaged user (beagleindex) for beagle system-wide indexer06:06
tsengKamion: do you care about the policy in the scope of ubuntu?06:06
=== pitti_ [n=pitti@dialin-145-254-080-081.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Lathiatso 06:16
Lathiathow do i raise awareness of a bug report?06:16
LaserJockspam #ubuntu-* ? ;-)06:18
wasabiFix it.06:18
Lathiathehe06:18
infinityLathiat: The bttracker bug?  It's on my radar, it's just not top priority.06:18
=== bmonty [n=bmontgom@ubuntu/member/bmonty] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Lathiathrm good fix seems to read the START_BTTRACK vara and not disaplay a message on shutdown if its not set06:19
Lathiati guess06:19
Lathiator have the tracker in a different package06:19
DizietShould I bump the version of ubuntu-docs to 6.06 ?06:19
infinityLathiat: Splitting it to another package is pointless, the init script just needs to not be broken.06:20
ograDiziet, i'd keep that step for final ;)06:20
LaserJockDiziet: I thought that was going to be done on release06:20
LaserJockDiziet: but I'm not positive06:20
=== Lathiat nods
Dizietogra: Fair enough.06:21
DizietI just noticed it was wrong :-).06:21
Lathiatinfinity: does not broken = not showing a message on shutdown is START_BTTRACK is set to 0?06:21
LaserJockDiziet: well, it is still 6.04 ;-)06:21
infinityDiziet: No, it's right, the version is date-dependant, check the changelog.06:21
lamontLathiat: that's getting close to asking him to pull it to the top of his todo list...06:21
Lathiatheh06:21
infinityLathiat: "Not broken" means "working according to policy".06:22
lamontinfinity: heh06:22
Lathiatguess i better read the policy then :)06:22
lamontdebconf: Obsolete command TITLE Configuring mdadm called06:23
lamontneato06:23
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-165-202-111.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KamionLathiat: /var/log/installer/espresso; use ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 to make it more useful06:29
Kamion(or, as of tomorrow or so, UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1 and /var/log/installer/syslog)06:30
Kamionnmsa: sure; quicker to just ask rather than waiting for me to get back and then asking06:30
Kamiontseng: yes, very much do, the policy is sensible regardless and I don't want to fork base-passwd. However, can't you just call 'adduser --system beagleindex' in your postinst?06:30
Kamiontseng: you normally don't need a static id06:30
=== seth|lappy [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== j_ack [n=nico@p508D8B02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamiontseng: oh, policy tells people to check with me first even for dynamic ids; I see. I think you're the first person who's actually paid attention to that ;-)06:32
=== jr_ [n=jr@jasmine.wyrdweb.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jr_ is now known as Riddelll
Riddelllcarlos: can you give me the .po line for UTF8 again?06:32
KamionI think that bit could be removed from policy; the base-passwd maintainer is not an effective registry of dynamic user and group names, only of static ids06:32
carlossure06:32
carlosinstead of "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=CHARSET\n"06:33
carlosyou should have "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8\n"06:33
Riddelllcarlos: great, thanks06:33
carlosriddell and be sure that the file is using UTF-8 or ASCII as its encoding...06:33
carlosI guess that would be the default... but just in case06:33
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel
carlosRiddelll: k3b and koffice are now in the Rosetta import queue06:34
=== winkle [i=winkle@suiko.acc.umu.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel
carlosshould be imported today06:34
carlosthe queue is a bit busy atm with the post beta uploads... :-P06:34
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
nmsaKamion: I have failed this Bug #40560, almost a duplicate on Bug #33504 with a diff S3 video card. I think is a Critical one, I wonder until a fix gets out is there a w/a ? 06:41
UbugtuMalone bug 40560 in xserver-xorg-driver-s3 "GDM session does not start" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4056006:41
UbugtuMalone bug 33504 in xserver-xorg-driver-s3 xserver-xorg "Server failure with S3 86c764/765 [Trio32/64/64V+] " [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3350406:41
=== jpatrick [n=patrick@ubuntu/member/jpatrick] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _mvo_ [n=egon@p54A671F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AstralJava [n=jaska@cm-062-241-239-184.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionnmsa: I'm sorry, I have no relevant expertise; why did you pick me to ask?06:49
nmsayour name is there beside the bug in launchpad06:50
nmsaas xserver-xorg-driver-s3 Creator06:50
ograheh06:51
Kamionnmsa: I only uploaded the most recent version; if you look at the changelog you'll see that the change I made is a trivial dependency change that doesn't actually require any knowledge of X06:51
KamionI'll file a bug on Launchpad for that incredibly misleading terminology06:51
nmsa:)06:51
Kamionso sorry, can't help you06:51
ograKamion, if you need another example, ltsp shows fabbione as creator06:51
ogra:)06:52
=== jdong_ [n=jdong@d192-24-132-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jdong_ likes the new shakespeare writer
Dizietogra: The edubuntu-artwork package doesn't seem to use the alternatives system to manage index.html.06:54
DizietIt doesn't divert it either.06:54
DizietSurely this is just completely broken ?06:54
=== ohoel [n=beshy@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel
DizietOh, I'm looking at an old version.06:55
ograyes06:55
ogralook at dapper06:55
ohoelany ETA on fresh langpacks?06:55
ograi'd be astonished if it would be broken, postinst is derived from infinitys code 06:55
jdubKamion: are we labelling the old installer CDs as 'text install & upgrade CDs' or something?06:55
Kamionhttps://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/4060206:56
UbugtuMalone bug 40602 in soyuz ""Creator" terminology is wrong and misleading" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  06:56
=== AstralJava [n=jaska@cm-062-241-239-184.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has left #ubuntu-devel []
Kamionjdub: "text-mode install CD" is the current phrase06:56
=== AstralJava [n=jaska@cm-062-241-239-184.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubKamion: might be worth mentioning that it's the one to download if you want to do an upgrade06:56
jdubKamion: http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?src=rss&id=97306:56
Kamionjdub: for the three people who actually upgrade that way? :)06:56
jdubKamion: useful notes there06:56
jdubKamion: you're not bandwidth challenged - there are a fuckload more than three06:57
ohoelthey'll be using shipit when the time comes06:57
jdubKamion: it's a very common use case06:57
Kamionjdub: shipit won't cater for them ...06:57
Kamionohoel: ^--06:57
jdubs/jdub/ohoel/ :)06:57
Kamionjdub: both06:57
ohoelKamion: the bandwidth-challenged? ;)06:58
ohoelI suspect they won't be downloading a beta image06:58
Kamionohoel: we will not be sending the text-mode install CD out in shipit06:58
ohoeloh06:58
Kamionit's a Canonical decision to save money06:58
ohoelprobably wise06:58
ogra(you could order an edubuntu text-mode CD and remove the edubuntu parts post install though)06:59
ohoelI'll be installing both ubuntu and kubuntu on a load of machines later today... hope I won't get too ill when faced with a livecd install06:59
=== Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AstralJava [n=jaska@cm-062-241-239-184.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubKamion: likelihood of having ship seed on the livecd?07:01
=== jcole [n=jcole@palrel2.hp.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionjdub: anyway - I'm not wild about the unwieldiness of "text install and upgrade CDs" as a short description, but I've added "can also be used as a package source for upgrading older installations" to the longer description on releases; does that help07:02
Kamionjdub: I've been meaning to talk to somebody about that; I'm not sure where to put it, and I'm not sure that all of ship is appropriate, although I realise that some of it is needed07:02
Kamionthere are some awkward technical difficulties, although good reasons to look into solving them; it's not something I can just flick a switch and fix though07:03
jdubKamion: yeah, tough one07:03
KamionI think it may have to be a separate seed07:03
=== Kamion -> dinner
jdubminiship ;)07:03
=== Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel
LathiatKamion: mm ok, i'll have to re-do that bug then, whast with 'uniquity', new name for it?07:04
=== ealden [n=ealden@203.76.211.26] has joined #ubuntu-devel
desrtwhat would be really great: some way for the user to precompile their volatile modules so that they don't have to relink at every startup and be stored in a tmpfs07:05
desrtand since the user is doing it themselves there is no GPL violation07:05
=== mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Lathiatanyone else noticed fn+escape on their laptop no longer suspending?07:07
=== human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
=== TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-devel
BurgworkKamion, why the second rename>07:08
Burgwork;/07:08
ograsecond ? 07:08
Burgworkok, that was a typo, not a smiley07:08
=== Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Burgworkespresso --> ubiquity07:09
ograyes07:09
LaserJockBurgwork: because everybody called it expresso? ;-)07:09
=== Fjodor [n=sune@0x55510b65.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== KaiL [n=KaiL@p548F6B70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== soumyadip [n=soumyadi@59.93.246.159] has joined #ubuntu-devel
ohoelLaserJock: the baristas nightmare07:15
LaserJockheh07:15
=== mako [n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dholbachhave a nice WE!07:18
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@mtngprs7.mtn.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== peterpowell [i=PeterPow@user-5223.lns3-c8.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
peterpowellhi07:26
=== peterpowell [i=PeterPow@user-5223.lns3-c8.dsl.pol.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
=== human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Riddell [n=jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== TMM [n=hp@c51471f2c.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KamionBurgwork: Mark wanted a name that made the association with Ubuntu clearer07:45
=== jlj [n=agp@207.67.194.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionwith Espresso it wasn't obvious at all; with Ubiquity there's at least a suggestion. We didn't want "Ubuntu" blatantly in the name if possible, because that introduces branding difficulties07:47
KamionI'm sorry it came late in the cycle, but we only dreamt up a suitable name shortly before the beta, and renaming was too intrusive at that point07:48
BurgworkKamion, no worries, just wondered07:49
Diziet{x,k}ubuntu-docs have an alternative for the firefox home page which is at the same priority as the one from ubuntu-docs.07:49
Dizietedubuntu-artwork has a higher-priority one.07:49
DizietIs this all correct ?07:49
KamionBurgwork: (and Ubiquity is a better name, too - suggests putting Ubuntu everywhere)07:49
mdzKamion: would it be non-trivial to have a ship seed for live?  or even to use the existing one?07:50
LaserJockmdz: sorry to bug you. I've got two packages from Debian (that aren't in Ubuntu) that I'd like to get into dapper Universe. Was a procedure for that hammered out or is it ok to just upload?07:52
Kamionmdz: I haven't looked into it in detail yet, and I have to go out just now; I have some thoughts but perhaps it would be better if I took a little while to think through the implications for germinate and cdimage before coming out with an opinion07:52
ograDiziet, yes07:52
Kamionmdz: I think, regardless of technical constraints, it might be wise to have a separate seed so that we have more flexibility in terms of language packs and things07:53
Kamionwe want to put language packs in the ship seed, but probably not in the ship-on-live seed07:53
Kamionanyway, out now ...07:53
Dizietogra: Oh, good.  Well, the fixes for everything are uploading now.07:53
ograyay+07:53
mdzLaserJock: you should request a sync, procedure on DeveloperResources07:54
LaserJockmdz: oh, sorry. I should have clarified. They need to be tweaked a bit in debian/control (GL and python deps)07:54
=== Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mh21 [n=mh21@ip54576d93.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
LaserJockmdz: so I have ubuntu1 packages ready07:55
mdzLaserJock: in that case, I guess just note in the changelog that it's a new package from Debian07:56
LaserJockmdz: k07:56
mdzso that the archive admins know where it came from07:56
mdzDiziet: why is this start page translation stuff landing post-featurefreeze? (and indeed, post-beta)07:57
=== stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.4.24.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== nnonix [n=brad@xeon.bkjohnson.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== nnonix [n=brad@xeon.bkjohnson.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Dizietmdz: The feature was there before feature freeze but it broke {k,ed,x}ubuntu.08:03
DizietIt was designed for Breezy in fact but not implemented there.08:04
=== nnonix [n=brad@xeon.bkjohnson.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
DizietSo we had to extend the design to cover the derivatives, which also meant being more rigorous about the locale list (which it turns out seems to have been handled very loosely anyway).08:07
infinitymdz: How would a ship-on-live seed work?  live, by definition, is completely installed in the livefs, are we talking about adding a repository of non-installed debs on the livecd or something?08:11
=== infinity feels as though he may have missed some crucial scrollback and begins scrolling.
ograinfinity, and link it to /var/cache/apt/archives ?08:12
mdzDiziet: if it needed redesign, it should have been the subject of a feature freeze exception discussion08:15
mdzinfinity: yes, I am talking about a repository of non-installed debs08:15
mdzinfinity: use case: third-party network driver needs linux-headers+build-essential08:16
infinitymdz: Ahh, cool.  If the seed side of that were sorted, I can easily mangle the livefs build to stuff them somewhere and even build a Packages.gz for them (if we want it as a static file:// repo, rather than having it in /var/cache/apt)08:17
mdzinfinity: yeah, though tying it into the livefs directly probably isn't dapper material08:18
mdzinfinity: it's a lot of stuff to install in the live environment anyway, but useful on the installed system08:18
infinitymdz: <shrug>... Tying it into the livefs isn't rocket science, really, and it just makes it that much simpler for espresso to not bother worrying about, since it can just copy it blindly with the rest of the filesystem.08:19
infinityEither way, something needs to be hacked, and if we want it on the livefs eventually, why bother hacking debian-cd to put it in some other odd place?08:20
=== monkeynut [n=monkeynu@82.153.173.28] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Riddell [n=jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzinfinity: if espresso is copying sources.list, then we don't want to start changing it at this point08:29
mdzI think it might be generating a new one though08:30
mdzinfinity: P.S. s/espresso/ubiquity/g ;-)08:30
mdkeDiziet, around?08:31
infinitymdz: ;)08:33
mdkehey infinity 08:34
mdkeinfinity, is suspend to ram on your t43 working alright? it's playing up a lot here08:34
infinitymdke: Worked last time I tried, but I don't try often.  My laptop's generally up 24/7 for weeks on end.08:35
mdkeah08:35
mdkenp then08:35
=== olemke [n=olemke@p54895927.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ohoel [n=beshy@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== erez [n=erez@89-138-52-36.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Dizietmdke: Not really but if it's quick ...08:45
Kamioninfinity: I think ship-on-live probably wants to be handled by debian-cd anyway08:46
Dizietmdz: redesign> I'll make sure to have it discussed next time.08:46
mdkeDiziet, np then, thanks for doing those uploads08:46
DizietNP.  Tell mdz they're a good thing :-).08:46
Kamioninfinity: I had a good reason for this in my head earlier but I seem to have forgo^W^W^W^W^Wthis IRC channel is too narrow to contain it08:46
mdkeDiziet, will do08:46
mdkecan I download older source packages other than the current ones? the man page says I can do it with an =versionnumber but it doesn't seem to be working.08:47
Kamionmdz: ubiquity doesn't really have to bother much actually - all I have to do would be to turn on the cdrom generator in apt-setup ...08:47
Kamionadvantages of using d-i code++08:47
tsengKamion: yeah i was planning on adduser --system in postinst, I'll consider it ack'd08:48
tsengKamion: thanks.08:48
infinityKamion: Alright, if we think the use-case for having the stuff available to the live system is marginal at best, and we just want it for the installed system, I'll keep my dirty hands off it.08:48
infinityKamion: Just made sense to me to have it available in the live system too, "just cause".08:49
Kamioninfinity: actually I think we can have our cake and eat it there08:49
Kamioninfinity: if we know it's going to be on the CD, the live system can add a line to its sources.list referencing it08:49
infinityAhh, I see what you mean.  Have a pool/dists structure on the ISO filesystem, then an apt-cd line in sources.list.08:50
Kamioninfinity: one reason to do it this way is that it's more economical of disk space on the installed system; we don't have to copy stuff that not everyone needs to use08:50
infinityClever.08:50
Kamionright08:50
infinityThat does make more sense, yes, I wasn't thinking clearly. :)08:50
Kamionall the code to do that is already there - it's just a matter of switching some ifs around and figuring out the germinate end08:50
=== Kamion totally doesn't understand these espresso bug reports that amount to l-r-m not being installed
Kamion(after reboot)09:00
=== LeeJunFan [n=junfan@s64-186-37-120.skycon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionhmm, maybe it's not that the package isn't installed, but that the files are mysteriously broken09:03
=== LinuxJones [n=willy@hlfxns01bbh-142177213115.ns.aliant.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
infinityKamion: I have some shiney new bug reports that claim that depmod hasn't been run.09:06
infinityKamion: Which is utter BS... Unless you're not copying modules.dep from the installed system...09:06
infinityKamion: Or something elsewise goofy.09:07
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-146-167-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.181] has joined #ubuntu-devel
infinityKamion: FWIW, I've confirmed here that LRM works on the livefs itself.  I haven't done an espresso install to see what might be breaking between A and B.09:09
=== Trewas [n=ilonen@raato.lut.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pvanhoof [n=pvanhoof@d54C0E27E.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sm [n=simon@69-160-148-143.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Riddellll [n=jr@jasmine.wyrdweb.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
RiddellllKamion: overwriting problem in ubiquity-casper http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/67387509:14
=== janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== TomB| [n=ownthebo@ACD557AD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
ozamosiHenrik Nilsen Omma. Does that guy have an IRC-nick?09:31
LaserJockozamosi: yes09:32
ozamosiBetter question: what irc-nick has he?09:33
LaserJockozamosi: something like hno7 , I can't remember. He isn't on all that often09:33
infinityozamosi: heno09:34
infinityozamosi: He's on #ubuntu-accessibility09:34
ozamosiOk, thanks.09:34
LaserJockinfinity: ah yes, thanks09:34
=== RoeyInDisgust [n=roey@h-69-3-4-130.mclnva23.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
RoeyInDisgustHI!09:34
RoeyInDisgustI KNEW this place existed09:34
RoeyInDisgustquick quesiton:09:34
RoeyInDisgustI found this bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ieee80211/+bug/35095  09:35
UbugtuMalone bug 35095 in ieee80211 "Please update al last version" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  09:35
RoeyInDisgustseemed applicable09:35
RoeyInDisgustwhen will this be addressed?09:35
LaserJockRoeyInDisgust: usually when somebody has time to get to it.09:35
infinityRoeyInDisgust: ipw3945 is already in our latest kernel.09:35
RoeyInDisgustah! cool.09:36
RoeyInDisgustinfinity:  what about the module?09:36
RoeyInDisgustinfinity:  I'm using DD09:36
RoeyInDisgustinfinity:  I suppose you're referring to grump?09:36
RoeyInDisgust*grumpy?09:36
infinityThere is no grumpy.  I'm referring to dapper.09:36
RoeyInDisgustinfinity:  hmm.09:36
infinityThe latest kernel uploaded a few hours ago has ipw3945 built in.09:36
infinityJust be patient.09:37
infinityAs for the ieee80211 source, someone will look at your bug in time, wandeing in here to hilight *your* pet bug doesn't help anyone get their work done any faster.  Really.09:37
infinityIRC is not a bug tracker.09:37
RoeyInDisgustinfinity:  thanks for the information.09:37
=== Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== LeeJunFan_ [n=junfan@s64-186-37-120.skycon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
RoeyInDisgustinfinity:  and please don't take it personally.09:38
RoeyInDisgustinfinity:   *I* feel like a bug tracker.  That's why i cam here.09:38
RoeyInDisgustbut anyhow, thanks a lot =)09:38
infinityRoeyInDisgust: It's nothing personal at all.  It's just that if every user felt the need to come in here and hilight their bugs for us, we'de never have any development discussion in here, which is what we TRY to do here.09:39
RoeyInDisgustheh09:39
RoeyInDisgustalright.09:39
RoeyInDisgustno one answered in #k/ubuntu.09:40
RoeyInDisgustmy bad.09:40
RoeyInDisgustanyhow I'll get outta here09:40
RoeyInDisgustthanks again!09:40
=== RoeyInDisgust [n=roey@h-69-3-4-130.mclnva23.covad.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
=== Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel
neuralisinfinity: i expect that the malone featureset will eventually expand to include sentience, after which it *will* come on irc. and probably get into comically pointless ALICE-style nonsense-babble with ubugtu every time someone mentions a bug.09:41
infinityDon't even joke about that.09:41
=== jeroenvrp2 [n=jeroenvr@k-uptown.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jeroenvrp2hi folks09:42
jeroenvrp2I had a almost locked/freezed system this evening (using dapper current revision)09:42
infinityjeroenvrp2: /topic09:43
jeroenvrp2I have the erroroutput (from /var/log/messages)09:43
jeroenvrp2infinity: seems like a bug09:43
jeroenvrp2http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/67393609:43
infinityjeroenvrp2: Then file it in Malone, please.09:43
=== mat [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jeroenvrp2infinity: off course, but first I want to know if its me or a bug and what kind of bug09:44
neuralisjeroenvrp2: there is no bug. you ran out of memory and swap, and the oom killer does what it does best: not work well. nothing to see here, please move on.09:44
Treenaksdoko: OOo has a 'Use hardware acceleration' option in Options -> Display -- any reason for it to be disabled?09:45
jeroenvrp2neuralis: thank you for your nice answer09:45
infinityjeroenvrp2: If I had to guess, I'd say perhaps you ram out of memory because you had brltty running which had a hideous memory leak (ate 1.5GB on my system in under 2 days).  Update/upgrade, reboot, enjoy the extra RAM.09:46
infinitys/ram out of /ran out of /09:46
dokoTreenaks: what does it do? ;-)09:46
jeroenvrp2!brltty09:46
jeroenvrp2infinity: oh thanks, so that was it09:47
Treenaksdoko: Well, it's in the "Display" part of the preferences.. it also has a (disabled by default) OpenGL flag (with its own 'use acceleration' flag)09:47
Treenaksdoko: it might be Xv ?09:47
Treenaksdoko: or RENDER ?09:47
TrewasI had to upgrade in dapper to a self-compiled 2.6.17-rc2 to get suspend-to-ram working. consequently network-manager dies with message "Warning: Driver for device eth1 has been compiled with version 20 of Wireless Extension, while this program supports up to version 19.", does anyone have idea if just re-compiling network-manager will get support for new wireless-extension from kernel sources, or where are they defined?09:48
dokoTreenaks: that might be the support for cairo-glitz in Impress' full screen mode09:49
mjg59Trewas: Did you file a bug about the suspend to RAM issue?09:49
mjg59We would aim to fix that in our kernel09:49
=== jjesse [n=jjesse@24-231-158-38.static.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Treenaksdoko: I've enabled them locally here.. no ill effects so far (but I'm not really a heavy user, and I have a proper OpenGL driver)09:50
Trewasmjg59: somebody had filed the bug already09:50
mjg59"Suspend to RAM doesn't work" isn't a bug09:50
mjg59"Suspend to RAM doesn't work on this specific machine" is a bug09:50
jeroenvrp2infinity: I dont have brltty09:51
jeroenvrp2as you proberly knew09:51
jeroenvrp2bye09:51
=== jeroenvrp2 [n=jeroenvr@k-uptown.xs4all.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Get]
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Trewasmjg59: well, all I have this specific machine and somebody had filed a bug concerning the specific x41 already :)09:52
mjg59Trewas: Oh, an X41? Should be fixed in the next kernel package (uploaded today)09:53
=== cassidy [n=cassidy@103-137.240.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Trewasmjg59: I knew it would get fixed in ubuntu just as I'll manage to fix myself :)09:55
=== Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sm [n=simon@69-160-148-143.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== boglot [i=chaas@haas.workdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== inetpro [n=gustav@196-30-108-44.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zyga [n=zyga@ubuntu/member/zyga] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== monkeynut [n=monkeynu@82.153.173.28] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== LeeJunFan [n=junfan@s64-186-37-120.skycon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
siretartinfinity: re bug #26341 - I tested the linked patches from freedesktop bugzilla, and they work for me. I switched xserver-xorg-i810 to used patched on that occasion. may I upload my fix?10:35
UbugtuMalone bug 26341 in xserver-xorg-driver-i810 "[i855]  dual-head configs are ill" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2634110:35
siretarts/to used patched/to use dpatch/10:36
=== _TomB [n=ownthebo@ACD557AD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jcolehow does cdrom-detect determine if a cd is an ubuntu cd?10:43
jcolei've remastered an ubuntu install cd for netinstall and now i'm getting that error... something has changed10:44
=== bronson [n=bronson@209-221-203-148.dsl.qnet.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== kent__ [n=kent@kr-lun-89-144-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
siretartuploaded10:46
=== Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== LeeJunFan_ [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== LeeJunFan__ [n=junfan@s64-186-37-120.skycon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zyga [n=zyga@ubuntu/member/zyga] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mdz__ [n=mdz@george.kkhotels.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jcoleKamion: is the ubuntu /.disk/ dir on any of the ubuntu mirrors?11:48
=== wooster1168 [n=josh@24.115.218.54.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zyga [n=zyga@ubuntu/member/zyga] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-238-178.nr.ip.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!