/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/04/26/#ubuntu-doc.txt

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jjesseupdated KubuntuDapperBeta any feedback?01:13
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jjessemgalvin: can you look at KubuntuDapperBeta and give me feedback?01:14
mgalvinjjesse: yea sure01:15
Burgworkmdke, approved!01:22
mgalvinjjesse: looks good... i like to use smaller images but thats just me, otherwise it looks good01:24
jjessemgalvin: i'll make it better as i go on, this is my first one with images01:25
jjesseworking on espresso right now01:25
jjessemgalvin: thanks for the review :)01:25
mgalvincool, np :)01:26
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LaserJockmgalvin: Screenshot 7: X-Chat GNOME Message Notification01:56
LaserJockmgalvin: xchat-gnome isn't installed by default so should you have that there?01:56
LaserJockmgalvin: and on http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/dapperbeta not all of the screenshots are showing up it seems01:57
mgalvinLaserJock: i guess i could remove the xchat-gnome stuff... 01:57
LaserJockI was just wondering01:58
LaserJocknot ordering ;-)01:58
crimsunnot to mention "coming" is misspelled01:58
mgalvinthe images are still hosted on my server and it is a "bit overworked" right now :-/01:58
mgalvini still have to fix a few things on that page01:58
LaserJockmgalvin: especially since it is linked to distrowatch 01:58
crimsunotherwise it's a really slick overviet01:58
crimsunoverview01:58
mgalvinis it really?! crap...01:59
mgalvini didn't want it the public until the images were off my server, oh well01:59
LaserJockthat is how I found it01:59
mgalvini will fix it up now and move the images somewhere shortly01:59
mgalvinthanks for pointing that stuff out guys02:00
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LaserJockgo mgalvin go!02:14
mgalvinhaha ;)02:14
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LaserJockthe torrents seem to be nice and fast02:15
LaserJockfirst time I've actually downloaded something with a torrent that gave any decent speed02:16
jjessefor the beta?02:16
jjessei just downloaded  the live cd and it was really quick02:16
LaserJockyeah, took me 13 min.02:16
LaserJockusually torrents take me hours02:17
jjessetorrents are blocked at work for me :(02:17
LaserJockyeah, they usually are for me, but on OSX it works02:19
jjessethat's interstesting that it works on one and not the other02:21
LaserJockyeah, I'm not sure if it a port issue or what02:22
jjessedang it i hate all these kernel updates that force me to always reconfigure vmplayer :(02:23
mgalvinmy server is still being crushed but i used attached images where possible so more of them should show up :-/02:56
crimsunI've always wondered why high-vol link sites don't default to coralcache03:02
mgalvini wish moin would support attachments acting as links to another attachments03:08
mgalvinit doesn't which is why i have to do it this way :(03:08
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darxhi guys05:17
Madpilothi05:17
darxdoes windows release the dhcp lease when it shuts down?05:17
darxthere seems to be some confusion05:18
darxcoz if you are on dual boot ubuntu seems to have trouble getting the lease05:18
darxthere is no doc regarding this05:19
Burgundaviadarx: neither windows nor ubuntu will release upon shutdown05:19
Burgundaviasalut Madpilotq105:19
BurgundaviaMadpilot, even05:19
BurgundaviaMadpilot: can I send you a doc for a quick look?'05:20
darxwhen i relese the lease manually before booting into ubuntu from windows, i don't get this problem05:20
darxotherwise its a hit or miss issue05:20
Burgundaviadarx: it is a windows bug05:20
darxwhats the bug??05:21
frank23when is the translation freeze for ubuntu docs for dapper?05:21
Burgundaviafrank23: a week before release05:21
frank23Burgundavia: ok. thanks.05:22
darxburgundavia: r u there?05:23
Burgundaviadarx: yep05:23
darxwhat is the bug??05:24
Burgundaviawindows not releasing on shutdown05:24
darxbut you said that neither of them releases05:24
darxso the bug is common05:24
Burgundaviayes05:24
darx???????????05:24
darxso its not a windows only bug is it??05:25
Burgundaviathere may also be a bug in your router, as leaes should be tied to the MAC addy, not the OS05:25
darxit could be tied to the host name05:26
darxi don't know the details but its a headache05:26
darxtheres no doc regarding this05:27
MadpilotBurgundavia, go ahead05:27
darxi've been lookin around the forums and the wiki05:27
darxeventually i had to look elsewhere05:27
BurgundaviaMadpilot: going to send it to you now05:27
darxthis is an ubiquitos problem coz i've seen a lots of posts that could have had this very issue at its core05:28
darxis it a bug or intentional?? and if so why coz its just a oneliner isn't it??05:30
MadpilotBurgundavia, got it05:30
BurgundaviaMadpilot: cheers05:30
darxBurgundavia: I hope u r not busy05:32
MadpilotBurgundavia, looks like a good listing05:32
Madpilotcan I send it back to you with some edits?05:33
darxBurgundavia: hellooooooo05:36
BurgundaviaMadpilot: yep05:36
Burgundaviadarx: in and out, packing for my trip05:36
Madpilotalready editing ;)05:37
darxsorry05:37
Burgundavianp05:37
darxso can u answer my q?05:37
Madpilotdarx, please try #ubuntu for technical help, this isn't really a help channel - thanks05:45
darxokies05:46
darxthanks 05:46
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MadpilotBurgundavia, sent05:46
BurgundaviaMadpilot: cheers05:49
BurgundaviaMadpilot: if you need to edit something again, go to the edit menu, changes --> Record05:52
BurgundaviaMadpilot: anything else you think I should add?'06:00
MadpilotBurgundavia, not really - nifty changes->record trick, thanks for that06:04
Burgundaviathat works on .doc files as well06:04
Madpilotwhat's a .doc file? ;)06:04
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Burgundaviagrumble, beta appears to have broken madwifi07:42
Burgundaviafalse alarm07:43
Madpilotdog, Gaim is ugly...07:46
Madpilotthe Dapper LiveCD runs nicely, though07:46
Burgundaviaback in a sec07:48
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Madpilothi robotgeek08:30
robotgeekhey Madpilot , had to reconnect due to lag08:30
robotgeekmuhahaha..installing java using EU on dapper ppc, sweet08:30
MadpilotI'm running Dapper beta livecd, and suffering with gaim - I can't believe we're planning on inflicting this thing on newbies08:31
robotgeekekiga is tougher to run than xchat08:31
robotgeekplus, it doesn't work (firewall crap)08:32
robotgeekalso kubuntu folks have openwengo08:32
Madpilotyeah, ekiga looks tough - a friend is playing with it a bit08:33
robotgeekthe devs decided "if you are l33t enuf to use irc, use irssi"08:34
Madpilotthe devs have taken leave of their collective senses WRT IRC, I think... 08:35
robitailleis that the actual quote?  I have never seen the actual discussion of that decision08:36
robotgeekrobitaille: no, i made it up08:36
robitailleI always wonder who decided about it.  From what I see from meeting logs, it was suddently a done deal08:37
Madpilothttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/3869408:37
Madpilotwhich Matt closed, for some reason, before one of the devs answered...08:37
robitailleyeah, I saw that bug report when it opened and I was hoping to see an "official" answer08:38
MadpilotI'm sorely tempted to reopen that bug, actually08:39
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Madpilotright, I re-opened that bug...08:50
robotgeekheh, let me subscribe :)08:50
Madpilotyou already are, I think08:51
Madpilotsame URL as above ^^^08:51
robotgeekyup, i already am08:51
Madpilotnow we just have to stop Matt from closing it again ;)08:54
robotgeekheh08:54
mdke_it's been discussed some many times, I figured that there wasn't a lot of point leaving it open08:56
mdke_course I will leave it, if you like08:56
mdkewoot!08:57
mdkemark has approved BetterWikiDocs08:57
robotgeekmdke: awesome! 08:57
Madpilotcool! so when does the giant wiki-move start?08:57
mdkewe'll need some developers to help08:58
mdkeand a server, and such08:58
Madpilotnew server for help.u.c first, yes?08:59
robwow, very cool09:00
robotgeekwiki licensing would also be cool :P09:01
robmdke, let me know if you need a hand setting it up, I've set up Moin and things a few times in the past09:01
mdkeyeah, I've been chasing up wiki licensing too09:01
mdkerob, np, I don't think the server admins will let me loose on it. they know what they're doing with moin, they've got like 7 wikis already :D09:02
Madpilotwe never did settle the wiki license, did we? I know CC:PD was proposed...09:02
mdkeMadpilot, sure, it is settled, we just never implemented it09:02
robmdke, thats cool, feel free to pick my brain etc if you need it :)09:03
mdkeMadpilot, on xchat. I'll post you a mail from sabdfl about it09:04
mdkeIt was removed because Gaim has support for IRC and we don't think the majority of users will be so enamoured with IRC that we want to keep two separate IRC clients in the default install. Xchat is much better for heavy IRC users, but those users are also perfectly capable of installing xchat themselves.09:04
Madpilotsure - except that compared to XChat, gaim has fairly bad IRC support...09:05
mdkeyes, the developers are aware of that09:05
mdkethe fact is that irc is not considered a core feature09:05
robGaim is horrible, but I can see the reasons behind it09:05
mdkeit's a chat network like any other09:05
mdkethe developers have simply disagreed with the statement in that bug report that "he IRC channels are an absolutely vital way of helping new users, and must be very easily accessible"09:06
Madpilotit seems to run counter to the "do one thing well" ethos09:06
mdkewell, gaim does msn well, and msn is a lot more popular as a chat network09:07
robI wish Ubuntu had proper control of the forums, I'd use/recommend it much more if they did and the Gaim factor wouldn't be so bad09:08
Madpilotyes, but if XChat-Gnome does IRC well, and gaim does it horribly... the logical conclusion does not seem to have been reached...09:08
robthe forums is such a cesspool as it stands now09:08
mdkerob, i disagree09:08
mdkeMadpilot, my point is that irc is not considered something that we need to provide to users by default.09:09
robmdke, :P you always do 09:09
mdkenot always, but I think you have a thing about the forums, and they aren't that bad at all09:09
robpersonal opinion is all, I've tried to like and use the forums and just can't stand it09:09
Madpilotsome of the subforums are just... strange... but the Absolute Beginner forums and other main ones aren't bad09:09
mdkeyeah, that's true09:10
Madpilotweb forums have a different feel to mailing lists - I prefer MLs, usually09:12
robotgeeki tried doing support on forums, was too much work09:14
Kaiser_Sleepsi havent been there for ages. waiting for pages to load drives me insane09:14
mdkeheh09:15
mdkeI like the forums, but I prefer mailing lists too09:15
Kaiser_Sleepsprobably a cultural thing  - i prefer to let email come to me for a reply, then go and search out a query on a forum ;)09:16
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robotgeeklike wireless, powerbook 09:17
mdkeclever09:17
robotgeektoo bad regexing it too much work09:18
robotgeeknight all, going to bed09:19
Kaiser_Sleepslater mate09:20
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Madpilotback later, in Breezy with a sane IRC client ;)09:29
Kaiser_Sleepslol09:29
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Sven_vBhi02:51
Sven_vBdo i have to learn svn to translate parts of ubuntu?02:51
robno, just Rosetta I beleave02:52
robits a web based thing02:52
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Sven_vBok. how can i submit my translated text? Launchpad says this project (About page) does not use Rosetta02:53
robSven_vB, usually https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+translations02:53
roboh? maybe it isn't uploaded yet?02:54
robwhich language?02:55
Sven_vBgerman02:55
robits there, under the ubuntu-docs package02:55
robhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/de02:55
robhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/about-ubuntu/de/+translate02:56
Sven_vBthx. it seems like i did not mean the about page.02:58
Sven_vBwhat is the document being loaded when i start "System">"About Ubuntu" from the panel?02:59
roboh, isn't that something else?02:59
Sven_vByes, apparently02:59
jsgotangcoSven_vB: it should be the About Ubuntu document03:00
jsgotangcohttp://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/index.html03:01
Sven_vBthx03:01
jsgotangco(but not in html btw)03:01
robeek, I think the licences have made it back into Rosetta again..03:02
Sven_vBno, it's not similar to the help doc i was reading :|03:02
Sven_vBcan yelp tell me which document i am reading?03:03
robmdke, when you are around ^03:03
robSven_vB, are you on Dapper?03:04
Sven_vBrob: no03:04
jsgotangcobreezy?03:04
robthats probably why :)03:04
Sven_vBhoary atm, i'm upgrading to breezy03:04
jsgotangcomeh03:04
jsgotangcothat's a pretty old document03:04
Sven_vB=)03:05
jsgotangcoSven_vB: unfortunately, we don't have those on preview now03:05
jsgotangcobut we can dig through our 2900+ revisions in svn03:05
jsgotangco:)03:05
Sven_vBi'll wait for the update to finish and check it again03:05
robhmm, maybe its not as bad as I first thought upon further investigation03:05
robSven_vB, the one you see in Rosetta will be the one for Dapper03:06
jsgotangcoyeah03:06
Sven_vBshould i upgrade to dapper in order to help with translation?03:10
jsgotangcoSven_vB: you don't need to, Rosetta shows you the english strings that can be translated03:10
jsgotangcothe link i posted earlier is also the actual preview document03:10
mdkerob, url please03:11
Sven_vByeah, but this way i'll discover untranslated parts or mistakes only when i'm logged into Rosetta03:11
robmdke, I first suspected it when I saw the bottom of this: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/about-ubuntu/en_GB/+translate?alt=en&offset=2003:12
jsgotangcomdke: can you fix bug 40492?03:12
robbut isn't all that stuff unchanged from Breezy?03:12
rob(anyway)03:12
mdkejsgotangco, I wanna think about whether it is worth a string change03:12
Sven_vBi prefer using ubuntu, seeing "hey, this could be translated better" and then submit my translation03:12
mdkerob, that's not the licence, it is just the articleinfo stuff03:13
jsgotangcomdke: Open As Administrator is different from Open as Root, its one small string, we can still upload,03:13
robmdke, yeah so I realized :)03:13
mdkejsgotangco, the whole para needs to be retranslated, not just the filename, lemme take a look03:14
mdkeoh yeah, it's not very long03:14
mdkelet's fix it03:16
Sven_vBhow can i ensure that my ubuntu always uses the latest versions of the translated docs? can i configure it to use the stable version of apps, but the developers version of the translations?03:19
mdkeSven_vB, no. You just have to keep upgraded03:20
Sven_vB#)03:21
Sven_vBkk03:22
mdkeI'll upload some translations this weekend03:22
Sven_vBcya03:24
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mdketrappist, new hotness in trunk please04:53
trappistbleh, I thought that *was* trunk04:56
trappisterr wait, no I didn't04:56
trappistok04:56
LaserJockmdke: ok, so I looked at the xreflabel thing in the packaging guide04:57
LaserJockmdke: if we leave "pbuilder" and "chroot" then I'm pretty sure we can remove the rest without string changes04:58
mdkesounds good04:59
LaserJockk04:59
LaserJockactually, now that Edgy has been announced I should make the substitutions in the Packaging Guide05:00
LaserJockI'll also do the xreflabel changes at the same time05:00
mdkegood man05:00
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LaserJockneato, security guide05:23
jsgotangco?05:24
LaserJockI see something in u-d-c05:28
jsgotangcoah yes05:28
jsgotangcogood luck on whoever wrote that :)05:28
LaserJocknot me that's for sure. I am a good use case for why there needs to be a security guide ;-)05:29
jsgotangcoi use a lot of security at work, but im not comfortable being an authority on it though05:30
jsgotangcoheh05:30
LaserJockI know virtually nothing about security and I'm luck that I'm behind a good server at the uni05:31
jsgotangcoheh05:32
jsgotangcogotta sleep05:32
jsgotangcociao05:32
LaserJockcya jsgotangco 05:33
WaterSevenUbwhile translating detected: C/config-system.xml:712(para) - desktop guide - You can now use your key combination to switch between keyboard *laouts*05:56
mdkethanks05:59
trappist<3 translators05:59
mdkefixed06:03
trappistsay.  could somebody approve me for the launchpad group?06:06
WaterSevenUbthank you.06:07
=== LaserJock swings his desk light over toward trappist
LaserJockhmmmm06:07
LaserJock:-)06:08
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mdkedone06:10
trappistcool, thanks :)06:10
=== LaserJock swings his desk light back. "darn, back to work"
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LaserJockoh, that reminds me06:11
trappistmy hackergotchi sucks.  because my gimp-foo sucks.06:12
LaserJockI've got to prepare a little speech. I'm running for a position in the newly created Chemistry Grad Student Association ;-)06:12
LaserJocktrappist: you're a member of the Utah LocoTeam?06:13
trappistopen up with the "little johnny was a chemist" bit06:13
LaserJockheh, yeah06:13
trappistoh is that what the UT part meant?06:13
trappistdoh06:13
LaserJockummm, yeah06:14
trappistnot anymore... not sure why I was on there06:14
LaserJocktrappist: man, you've got some serious karma going on. I just can't get up there06:15
trappistI've been to utah once, but that probably doesn't count06:15
LaserJockI'm in a state neighboring Utah06:15
trappistLaserJock: I spend a lot of time on bugs.  reporting, triaging, commenting, etc.06:15
trappistoccasionally writing patches06:16
LaserJockyeah, I'm a doc writer and MOTU but apparently I'm just not that active ;-)06:16
trappistLaserJock: aren't you a motu?  I figured you'd get mad karma from uploading packages06:16
LaserJocktrappist: actually, I don't think we get karma for uploads06:16
LaserJockyet06:17
trappistyeah I think karma needs some work.  it's not aware of enough stuff to be a very good reflection of the amount of contribution somebody makes.06:17
trappistwe need a post-commit hook in svn to talk to karma :)06:18
LaserJockyeah, that might be nice, and substract off reversions06:18
trappistwe also *cough* still need a trac site06:19
mdketrappist, faq.xml doesn't validate btw06:19
mdkeI'm already hanckering to read your guide :)06:20
trappistfixed faq.xml06:21
trappistmdke: I've been hankering to write it for a while :)06:21
trappistespecially the faq and the firewall section06:22
trappistSO many very-frequently-asked and usually-poorly-answered security questions06:22
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WaterSevenUbMay I ask you something? Something in the desktop guide is not making sense to me: C/common-tasks.xml:299(para)07:33
WaterSevenUb"This device is configured " button... shouldn't it be Checkbox "Enable this connection" ?07:34
trappistWaterSevenUb: it looks like you're correct07:36
trappistbut that's the first time I've ever seen network-admin, so maybe somebody else can verify?07:37
mdkelemme look08:06
mdkeyes08:07
mdkeWaterSevenUb, thanks again08:10
WaterSevenUbyou're welcome08:11
mdkeLaserJock, yo?08:36
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LaserJockmdke: yeah?09:03
mdkeLaserJock, sorry, have sorted it09:05
LaserJockmdke: did I mess something up? :-)09:05
mdkeno, I needed help with something, but have resolved09:06
LaserJockah, well as long as I haven't screwed up the documentation or Universe ;-)09:07
LaserJockmy two goals in life09:07
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LaserJockhi Burgundavia and jjesse 09:50
Burgundaviasalut LaserJock09:50
mdkehello y'all09:51
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jjessehello09:54
Burgundaviamdke: now that we have won sabdfl, we are set09:55
Burgundaviamdke: btw, I am going to be out of town for a week, with sporatic internet access09:55
mdkeBurgundavia, yeah, I'm pleased too09:55
mdkeBurgundavia, don't worry about not being around. I'll try and chase up mark for a developer, and elmo for the server09:56
Burgundaviaok09:57
LaserJockso in the end, will there be any user documentation on wiki.u.c?09:57
Burgundaviano09:57
LaserJockdo you think we could get this implemented by Dapper release?09:58
mdkemaybe09:58
LaserJockthat would be cool to roll it out with the release09:59
mdkeyeah09:59
mdkeBurgundavia, we won't be able to change any of the links to the wiki in the official docs09:59
Burgundaviayes, but we can do redirects/links10:00
Burgundaviawe will not be able to remove any of the documentation pages in the wiki either10:00
mdkesure, as planned in the spec.10:00
mdkeshame though10:00
LaserJockwon't we eventually?10:01
mdkeLaserJock, for the next release10:02
Burgundaviaby eft we will be able to remove most of the non-high trafficed ones, leaving behind things like rootsudo and the like10:04
mdkeyes10:04
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mdke*that* is going to be a large commit email10:34
LaserJockmdke: I hopefully made my last commit to the dapper branch10:42
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mdkeLaserJock, ooh rock10:50
mdkemine was so large, it didn't get through :/10:51
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=== mdke tries again
mdkethat's better10:58
=== mdke looks despairingly at the validation errors in the korean packaging guide
ompaulis there a guide for someone doing server stuff enabling networking? 11:09
mdkeompaul, yes. http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html11:10
ompaulmdke, once again thanks :)11:10
mdkenetwork-configuration.html11:11
ompaulnow to feed that into ubotu11:12
mdkeompaul, don't do that11:14
mdkethat's a work in progress guide aimed at dapper11:14
ompaulhmm11:14
ompaulwe need something11:14
mdkewell, stable-ish, but the url won't stay like that11:14
ompaulokay I'll cull it11:15
mdkeompaul, here you are: http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/serverguide/C/networking.html#network-configuration11:15
mdkeoh shit, that will change too11:16
mdkeompaul, here you are: http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html <-- will stay the same11:16
ompaulokay11:16
mdkerobotgeek, ping?11:30
WaterSevenUbsorry, other question about desktop guide: C/add-applications.xml:48(para) - "<application>Add Programs</application>" wouldn't be better "<application>Add/Remove Applications</application>"?11:34
mdkeI'm not sure11:34
mdkeWaterSevenUb, listen, can you pass a message to the pt_BR team for me?11:35
WaterSevenUbmdke, I can :-) but I'm from pt (PT) team. But I can contact Og Maciel from pt_BR.11:35
mdkeoh, right11:35
mdkenp, I'll tell him11:35
WaterSevenUb(in any case, the application itself in dapper is called "Add/Remove Applications" not just "Add Programs", that was my point.)11:36
mdkeyeah, I got your point11:37
mdkeWaterSevenUb, thanks, fixed11:42
mdkeenrico, ping?11:46
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mdkeLaserJock, any idea how hard it would be to upgrade ubuntu-docs to compat=5 (someone said that it will support comments in debian/install if we do that, and it would help a lot because that file is going to get VERY complicated when the translations arrive12:02

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