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| ProN00b | will the behaviour of the eject cd button on the drive change with the next release ? | 12:31 |
|---|---|---|
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| mdke | ProN00b, the eject button on the cd drive should always have the same behaviour, regardless of release, because it is intended for one purpose only | 12:41 |
| ProN00b | *_* | 12:41 |
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| mdke | (to eject the cd) | 12:42 |
| mdke | I'd be really concerned if my eject button suddenly started muting volume, or shutting down, or something | 12:42 |
| ProN00b | hmm, lemme try this again | 12:42 |
| ProN00b | but it was a common problem in dapper that it did Not eject the cd | 12:43 |
| HiddenWolf | ProN00b: intended behavior | 12:44 |
| ProN00b | HiddenWolf, why ? | 12:44 |
| ProN00b | why should a eject button not eject a cd ? | 12:45 |
| ProN00b | what wicked logic is behind this | 12:45 |
| HiddenWolf | ProN00b: I'm not the expert, but as far as I know it's not always possible to correctly catch the right hardware signal due to wacky hardware, and safely unmount/eject the disk | 12:45 |
| HiddenWolf | I'd rather have to manually unmount it than starting to eject mounted disks | 12:46 |
| ProN00b | then catch the signal, and try to unmount | 12:46 |
| ProN00b | if unpossible display error | 12:46 |
| HiddenWolf | Anyway, pitti should know | 12:46 |
| === HiddenWolf afk | ||
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| mdke | ProN00b, if something doesn't work, search the bugtracker, and if it isn't known already, file a bug. It's clearly not intended behaviour for the eject button to fail to eject | 12:50 |
| ProN00b | ok | 12:51 |
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| ProN00b | another thing i have to flame about: why don't you include updated release versions of programms (ff1.5 usw... (ff might be a bad example because of libs)) ? (you could at least put them into universe or multiverse) | 12:52 |
| Riddell | Kamion: about? | 01:04 |
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| ProN00b | hmm, why totem ? | 02:05 |
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| bddebian | Damnit, where do .mime files go again on install? | 02:52 |
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| bddebian | Heya slomo_ | 03:09 |
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| robertj | is disk really the right group for raw1394? | 03:36 |
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| jsgotangco | lol i go to the impi linux website and ubuntu is classified as economy class | 06:01 |
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| === jdong wonders when updated l-r-m and l-i packages will show up on mirrors :) | ||
| crimsun | whenever k NEWs them. I wouldn't hold my breath -- probably Monday. Let 'im have the weekend at least. | 06:22 |
| jdong | thanks, crimsun | 06:23 |
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| desrt | mmm. the new artwork changes are nice | 06:42 |
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| kagou | hi | 08:01 |
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| sivang | morning all | 09:16 |
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| nomed | hi all | 10:19 |
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| highvoltage | anyone seen heno on IRC recently? | 10:29 |
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| jsgotangco | nope | 10:30 |
| zakame | hi all | 10:31 |
| \sh | moins | 10:31 |
| jsgotangco | \sh, nice to see you back again | 10:32 |
| zakame | hello \sh ! | 10:32 |
| ajmitch | hi | 10:32 |
| \sh | jsgotangco: thx :) | 10:32 |
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| === sivang wonders if ubuntu-artwork is the right place to ask an icon for a program that will probably be in main for dapper+1 | ||
| sivang | see, I want it to be co-herent with the rest of the artwork | 10:39 |
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| === ozamosi- is now known as ozamosi | ||
| sivang | anybody knows the difference between 'dip' and 'dialout' groups? | 11:34 |
| sivang | I'm looking at malone #40802 | 11:34 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 40802 in gnome-system-tools "in users-admin user privileges there are 3 modem entries" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/40802 | 11:34 |
| lifeless | sivang: dialout get modem access, dip can run ppp when they dialin IIRC. (dial-in-ip) IIRC. | 11:35 |
| sivang | okay, so this needs clarification then | 11:36 |
| sivang | what do you think about the audio entry?: | 11:36 |
| sivang | "audio" => _("Use serial devices such as Modems and Palm Pilots."), | 11:36 |
| sivang | this seems to be as a glitch ;-) | 11:36 |
| lifeless | wow, that seems confusing | 11:36 |
| sivang | yes | 11:36 |
| sivang | loudly confusing | 11:36 |
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| sivang | hmm, I wish pitti was here so I could have asked him about 'audio' group | 11:40 |
| sivang | Keybuk: Heya Scott, maybe you could shed some light, is that exactly what audio group is about? : | 11:40 |
| sivang | "audio" => _("Use serial devices such as Modems and Palm Pilots."), | 11:40 |
| sivang | (taken fro users-conf in s-t-b) | 11:40 |
| sivang | lifeless: so dip is actually for being able to run ppp over a serial interface or so? | 11:41 |
| lifeless | that was memory, I suggest goodle tc | 11:42 |
| lifeless | tc->etc | 11:42 |
| sivang | hmm google suggests you do need to be in audio to access some modems | 11:43 |
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| Keybuk | sivang: I think audio is largely a hang-over from Debian | 11:45 |
| sivang | Keybuk: what happened to "Being able to play audio" ;-) | 11:46 |
| Keybuk | I was just checking that | 11:46 |
| Keybuk | indeed, audio is the group that can write to audio devices on the system | 11:46 |
| sivang | Keybuk: I'm trying to help malone #40802 | 11:46 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 40802 in gnome-system-tools "in users-admin user privileges there are 3 modem entries" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/40802 | 11:47 |
| Keybuk | audio should be "Use audo devices" | 11:47 |
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| Keybuk | the other two "modem" devices -- one is describing actual modems, ie. pci and isdn modems | 11:48 |
| sivang | Keybuk: okay, I need to find the patch that changed that, since this used to be like this once, and remove it, it's a start against confusing :) | 11:48 |
| Keybuk | one is just describing serial ports in general | 11:48 |
| sivang | yes | 11:48 |
| Keybuk | obviously we can put actual modems in the modem group, but a serial device can be many things | 11:48 |
| sivang | indeed. a serial connection between a laptop and a black VT box os so | 11:48 |
| sivang | *or | 11:48 |
| sivang | Keybuk: gotta run for a while, be back in 30 minutes. | 11:49 |
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| === sivang -> back | ||
| whiprush | Woo hoo! Convention Report = 800+ CDs distributed, ubuntu talk totally packed. World Domination, on schedule. | 12:02 |
| jsgotangco | pfftt that's nothing when the LTS system gets in place | 12:03 |
| jsgotangco | (Laser Targetting System) | 12:03 |
| whiprush | word. | 12:03 |
| jsgotangco | whiprush: i'm happy to know you're still awake at this time :) | 12:04 |
| whiprush | Keybuk: dude I totally owe you some info on that one bug report, I feel shitty for it being so crappy in the first place. | 12:04 |
| Keybuk | whiprush: heh, yeah :) | 12:06 |
| sivang | Keybuk: so, as basw-passwd docs say: | 12:06 |
| sivang | dialout = Full and direct access to serial ports. Members of this group can reconfigure the modem, dial anywhere, etc. | 12:06 |
| sivang | I think I'll make a patch now :) | 12:06 |
| \sh | I think /usr/sbin/dip was something like a dial in helper program for pppd...something like expect or chat | 12:07 |
| whiprush | so dudes I'm on day three at this linux convention here at home, you guys wouldn't /believe/ the excitement around dapper. | 12:08 |
| whiprush | This guy from Google, chris dibona, is like, fanboi #1. | 12:09 |
| ajmitch | whiprush: excellent | 12:09 |
| ajmitch | whiprush: and you're whipping up the hype too? | 12:09 |
| whiprush | my talk was packed. | 12:09 |
| whiprush | it's just unreal man. | 12:09 |
| jsgotangco | dibona was there? | 12:09 |
| whiprush | yeah. | 12:09 |
| jdub | whiprush: fun! | 12:10 |
| jsgotangco | ajmitch: he was with dibona dude, talk about celebrity status | 12:10 |
| === jsgotangco is nort worthy of whiprush | ||
| ajmitch | jsgotangco: almost as much of a celebrity speaker as you? | 12:10 |
| whiprush | Dude so he's like "You guys won't believe how awesome ubuntu is. Stop what you're doing, get the CD." | 12:10 |
| jsgotangco | naw i'm already past my prime | 12:10 |
| \sh | I wonder who this dibona guy is? | 12:10 |
| jdub | he heads up google's open source office | 12:10 |
| whiprush | hi \sh! | 12:10 |
| jsgotangco | \sh: he used to be one of the original slashdot editors | 12:11 |
| jdub | he was previously with VA and so on | 12:11 |
| \sh | oh this dibona guy :) yeah I remember :) | 12:11 |
| jdub | whiprush: so when's the ohio linux thingy? | 12:11 |
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| whiprush | jdub: I talked to them today, in october, I have the contacts, I mentioned "the plan". | 12:12 |
| whiprush | they will email you soon. | 12:12 |
| jdub | whiprush: sweet | 12:12 |
| Keybuk | "the plan" ? is jdub living in airports for a month again? | 12:12 |
| whiprush | jdub: looks like aseigo is a go too, it should be sweet. | 12:12 |
| jsgotangco | "the plan" | 12:12 |
| jdub | whiprush: are there public dates in october? | 12:12 |
| whiprush | jdub: The dates just got finalized, I will email them to you as soon as the guy wakes up, I think I drank him under the table. | 12:14 |
| \sh | aseigo could be the man to push kubuntu as no. 1 kde distro in europe | 12:14 |
| jdub | \sh: probably better to get a european | 12:14 |
| whiprush | jdub: there will be a python track this year too. You have no excuse. :D | 12:14 |
| jdub | whiprush: rock, thanks :) | 12:14 |
| jdub | heh | 12:14 |
| jsgotangco | wou;d there be a shaving auction event too? | 12:15 |
| \sh | jdub: well, he's sponsored by the trolls, he is a good spokesman for kde...ok, another choice would be mr. ettrich, but he signed already a crontract with the trolls :) | 12:15 |
| whiprush | jdub: dude, I can't begin to explain how pumped up people are for dapper. | 12:16 |
| whiprush | I've been flooded for three days of people. | 12:16 |
| jsgotangco | Eft is the future! | 12:16 |
| whiprush | from all walks of life ... it's been /amazing/ | 12:16 |
| whiprush | jdub: blog post will follow on the event of course. | 12:17 |
| \sh | jdub: another idea is, stay a couple of months in the netherlands, get cloned with a bit of kde drugs in your blood, and kubuntu will have jdub2, the fanatic blue guy without pants ;) | 12:17 |
| jdub | whiprush: lots of people at LWE sydney were pissed that dapper was delayed, and that i didn't have dapper CDs anyway - holy crap | 12:17 |
| whiprush | jdub: oddly enough, when I explained the delay, I got nothing but nods. | 12:17 |
| sivang | the plan, october etc, all of those linux conferences? | 12:17 |
| jdub | \sh: the host would reject the transplant | 12:17 |
| whiprush | I think a majority of them are still very happy with breezy. | 12:18 |
| jdub | yeah | 12:18 |
| jsgotangco | whiprush: that's pretty normal, breezy is incredibly stable for most people | 12:18 |
| jdub | "okay, so you're telling me it's going to be better, and that there are good reasons for it... 'sok by me!" | 12:18 |
| whiprush | jdub: until I did the last minute of XGL, then all of a sudden, they're all about edgy. :D | 12:18 |
| jdub | heh | 12:18 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 12:18 |
| jdub | LWE was pretty funny | 12:18 |
| jdub | i had dapper running with XGL on my 24" lcd | 12:18 |
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| sivang | jdub: oh, sweetness | 12:19 |
| jdub | and the novell guys (with big fancy stand) only had videos of their XGL demo | 12:19 |
| \sh | jdub: very sad, but then we need someone who is as charismatic as you, and have your skills to hypnotise the masses | 12:19 |
| jdub | so everyone loved the linux australia stand | 12:19 |
| whiprush | jdub: I did an ubuntu on sunray talk too.... | 12:19 |
| jdub | whiprush: how did that go? | 12:19 |
| whiprush | GLEE. | 12:19 |
| sivang | whiprush: what's sunray? | 12:19 |
| jsgotangco | jdub: is there a linux presence in CeBit in Darling harbour? | 12:19 |
| jdub | jsgotangco: now that i won't be away, i'll be there ;) | 12:21 |
| jdub | jsgotangco: there are a bunch of local linux companies as well as LA and OSIA | 12:21 |
| jdub | who will be there | 12:21 |
| jsgotangco | ahh | 12:21 |
| whiprush | sivang: a thin client. | 12:21 |
| whiprush | so like, pre-edubuntu thin clients. :D | 12:22 |
| jdub | jsgotangco: each of the cebit sections is called a 'parc' (numbskulls), and there is a 'linux parc' | 12:22 |
| jsgotangco | jdub: yeah i was looking through the website a few days ago, i won't be anywhere near that place that time though | 12:22 |
| jsgotangco | i will most likely be in hanover next year though | 12:23 |
| jsgotangco | ohh LA is a sponsor | 12:23 |
| jdub | jsgotangco: 'partner' more like ;) | 12:23 |
| \sh | jsgotangco: so we can meet in hannover next year for an early morning visit to the bavarian cebit hall...to have a "Mass Weissbier and a Weisswurst" ;) | 12:24 |
| jsgotangco | \sh: i'll take note of that, we're scheduled already for hannover as early sa now | 12:25 |
| whiprush | jdub: I spent about an hour going over pessulus and sabayon, and explaining how we deploy mass desktops with custom profiles. | 12:26 |
| whiprush | did the whole thing live, very cool. | 12:26 |
| === sivang wonders how one can manage a job / RF and attending so many events and conferences :-) | ||
| \sh | jsgotangco: don't go there during the weekend..weekend is "collectors day"...better to visit the cebit the first 3-4 days.... | 12:26 |
| jdub | whiprush: rawk! | 12:26 |
| jsgotangco | whiprush: they must have digged pessulus so much | 12:26 |
| whiprush | jsgotangco: it's incredible, how even among linux people, how things like pessulus are not well known. | 12:27 |
| whiprush | sabayon got people clapping though. | 12:27 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 12:27 |
| jsgotangco | and deskbar? | 12:27 |
| whiprush | Xnested thing, click and drag, make your profile, done and done. | 12:28 |
| whiprush | oh dude, you know I did the deskbar. :D | 12:28 |
| jdub | DONE. | 12:28 |
| whiprush | so we made the profile, and I deployed a few different ones | 12:28 |
| === Keybuk doesn't "get" the desk bar | ||
| whiprush | did some "deployment" stuff... | 12:28 |
| whiprush | My last slide was called "Holy Crap!" | 12:29 |
| \sh | whiprush: how do you massdeploy, via fai or kickstart? | 12:29 |
| whiprush | which was showing the profile stuff stuffed into LDAP. | 12:29 |
| whiprush | \sh: kickstart | 12:29 |
| \sh | whiprush: oh well, when I'm finished with my project, let's talk about the "real thing" (tm) named FAI :) | 12:29 |
| whiprush | so you can like, stick all the goodies in LDAP, and deploy the profiles by OU. | 12:29 |
| whiprush | even the windows guys were impressed. | 12:30 |
| === sivang nods to \sh about the coolness of this buzzword ;-) | ||
| jdub | \sh: fai is poop | 12:30 |
| Keybuk | I have a cute demo I give to Windows users now | 12:30 |
| Keybuk | I install dapper onto a laptop | 12:30 |
| whiprush | \sh: I have lots of old RHEL kickstart scripts, so I just reuse those. ::D | 12:30 |
| Keybuk | take the hard drive out, then boot it in a completely different laptop | 12:30 |
| Keybuk | and watch their open jaws when it doesn't spend the next week playing the "Found new hardware" game | 12:31 |
| sivang | Keybuk: hehe , they probably don't know what hit them :) | 12:31 |
| jdub | Keybuk: tickling their abstract funny bone only gets you so far :-) | 12:31 |
| Keybuk | or ever ask for the CD :) | 12:31 |
| \sh | jdub: fai is the best thing to install and setup a lot of servers.... | 12:31 |
| whiprush | jdub: the one bummer is that I couldn't get gimmie to work out of cvs for a lightning talk, I really wanted to say "GNOME IS MADE OF PEOPLE!" | 12:31 |
| jdub | whiprush: ha ha | 12:31 |
| Keybuk | jdub: it's an extreme example, but it's not that unusual for even minor hardware changes to annoy Windows users -- it's a cute way to demonstrate Ubuntu deals with hardware changes perfectly | 12:32 |
| Keybuk | well, other than X | 12:32 |
| jdub | \sh: naw, it only seems like it. kickstart + cfengine is much better. (fai is like an abused kickstart plus a lame cfengine-lite, so why not go for the real deal?) | 12:32 |
| whiprush | jdub: people really like the new add/remove programs, and gdebi. | 12:32 |
| jdub | whiprush: yeah, the new g-a-i is really raising eyebrows | 12:33 |
| jsgotangco | whiprush: did you get some new ideas for g-a-i? | 12:33 |
| whiprush | jsgotangco: mostly just oohs and aahs. | 12:33 |
| whiprush | most of my problem areas were non ubuntu specific, things like an oddball broadcom and whatnot | 12:34 |
| \sh | jdub: kickstart is just like autoyast :) but with fai I can implement deployment not only of debian based distros but as well rpmdistros like suse or redhat (that's my project right now), and for rolling out configurations, fai is able to use cfengine1/2 ...which is again implemented by default | 12:34 |
| j^ | Keybuk only that pnp desktop resize with external monitors and projectors is more common than replacing the laptop of a harddisk | 12:34 |
| \sh | jdub: and the main dev is sitting in cologne :) | 12:34 |
| Kamion | can anyone tell me *why* on God's green earth pygtk's gtk.main() wrapper eats exceptions? | 12:34 |
| Kamion | it's so dangerous | 12:34 |
| jdub | j^: we should team up on daniels and harass him about x automagic stuff | 12:35 |
| Riddell | is the kubuntu live fs being built? today's live CD doesn't contain the new kubuntu-meta | 12:39 |
| Riddell | or maybe a build time of 01:45:27 BST is too late for it | 12:39 |
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| j^ | jdub first step would be Auto enabling and disabling Xinerama screens.<http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas> | 12:46 |
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| jdub | oh man | 12:52 |
| jdub | i just had the most awesome idea for dapper release love | 12:52 |
| Keybuk | oh aye? | 12:53 |
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| jdub | have to make sure it's viable first | 12:53 |
| jdub | before i blather it | 12:53 |
| \sh | space, the final frontier, these are the adventures of Ubuntu Dapper Drake... | 12:56 |
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| j^ | \sh disk space? | 12:57 |
| \sh | s/space/time/ ? | 12:59 |
| sivang | heh | 01:01 |
| sivang | \sh: I started reading Einsetien's Relativity book | 01:01 |
| sivang | \sh: then one he claims is for "people with high scholl knowledge" to understand | 01:02 |
| sivang | nice so far | 01:02 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 01:03 |
| \sh | sivang: good to know, that einstein himself was not good in school :) | 01:05 |
| sivang | hehe | 01:05 |
| sivang | \sh: but it's true, he actually did physics in his spare time from the patent office in germany I think | 01:06 |
| sivang | \sh: he used to be a patent accountant or something | 01:06 |
| sivang | and he did not do so good at school | 01:06 |
| sivang | (or maybe it was switzeland, can't recall) | 01:06 |
| \sh | swiss :) | 01:07 |
| sivang | right :) | 01:07 |
| \sh | and he messed up with the university-entrance diploma :) | 01:07 |
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| sivang | \sh: heh, he did? did he try to cheat? :-) | 01:08 |
| \sh | no...i just failed an exam :) | 01:08 |
| sivang | \sh: LOL | 01:08 |
| \sh | so he had to repeat one school term | 01:09 |
| \sh | http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Einstein.html | 01:10 |
| sivang | \sh: nice, reading now | 01:12 |
| jsgotangco | good night | 01:12 |
| sivang | night jsgotangco | 01:13 |
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| infinity | Riddell: I hadn't turned the dailies back on yet. Doing now. | 01:31 |
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| Riddell | infinity: could you start a livefs build running? | 01:42 |
| infinity | Riddell: Any particular arch you want? | 01:43 |
| Riddell | infinity: all of them would be good | 01:44 |
| Riddell | wanting to test ubiquity | 01:44 |
| infinity | Riddell: Kay. I'll do amd64/i386/powerpc. | 01:45 |
| Riddell | thanks | 01:45 |
| infinity | Want me to spin the ISOs when I'm done, or are you all over that? | 01:46 |
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| Riddell | if it's no hassle to you that would be lovely | 01:47 |
| Kamion | Riddell: I'm working on all those "zapped my partition table" bugs, BTW | 01:48 |
| Kamion | Riddell: there are basically three problems there | 01:48 |
| mjg59 | Kamion: Espresso doesn't always seem to cause a /etc/mkinitramfs/conf.d/resume to appear | 01:48 |
| Kamion | Riddell: one is that ubiquity's UI throws an exception at all (and we just have to fix each of those in turn) | 01:48 |
| Kamion | mjg59: s/always/ever/ | 01:48 |
| mjg59 | Excellent | 01:48 |
| Kamion | mjg59: I know, just heard about that in my mail this morning, will sort something out | 01:48 |
| mjg59 | Heh. No problem | 01:49 |
| Kamion | Riddell: the second is that pygtk doesn't propagate exceptions beyond nested gtk.main() calls; I don't know if you have the same issue with pykde | 01:49 |
| Kamion | Riddell: the third is that partman doesn't generally run with 'set -e' and so doesn't notice the debconffilter going away, and carries on merrily regardless | 01:49 |
| Kamion | Riddell: to address the second, I'm going to add an exception handler to gtkui that puts up an exception dialog, asks people to file a bug, and then exits; you may like to do something similar in kde-ui | 01:50 |
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| Kamion | from ubiquity.frontend.yesnodialogue import YesNoDialogue | 01:51 |
| Kamion | Riddell: ^-- you don't appear to have added that to bzr | 01:51 |
| \sh | Riddell: btw...did you try the KGlobal.locale().insertCatalogue(...) for the translation stuff? | 01:55 |
| whiprush | guys: i have to do my second ubuntu talk in a few hours, can someone summarize the core duo/wifi situation? | 01:57 |
| jdub | 3945 stuff? | 01:57 |
| whiprush | yeah | 01:57 |
| jdub | i believe there's an effort to make sure what exists will be in the kernel | 01:57 |
| jdub | but what exists right now doesn't seem all that hot | 01:58 |
| mjg59 | It's in the kernel | 01:58 |
| jdub | so it might not be elite for dapper | 01:58 |
| whiprush | ok, we're doing a manual three step process here. | 01:58 |
| whiprush | it's the driver, the blob, and some other thing. | 01:58 |
| mjg59 | Driver is in the kernel, the rest is in l-r-m | 01:58 |
| infinity | Driver, firmware, and binary-only daemon. | 01:58 |
| mjg59 | Just needs to get through NEW | 01:59 |
| mjg59 | I believe | 01:59 |
| === infinity nods. | ||
| whiprush | metal. | 01:59 |
| infinity | That's in progress right now. | 01:59 |
| mjg59 | Getting test feedback would be good | 01:59 |
| mjg59 | I've got no test hardware, and nor does infinity | 01:59 |
| whiprush | mjg59: so I totally added to your mystique. I got a bunch of acpi questions. | 01:59 |
| Chipzz | binary-only daemon? I thought intel was quite open wrt their wireless chipsets? | 01:59 |
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| mjg59 | Chipzz: Yeah, the situation is a bit complicated | 02:00 |
| whiprush | and my answer was "Top men are on it, they're very British, and don't go to his blog, unless you want to hear multiple instances of a C word I can't say here." | 02:00 |
| mjg59 | whiprush: Go ahead | 02:00 |
| Chipzz | lemme guess... patents? :P | 02:00 |
| jdub | child-molesters? | 02:00 |
| mjg59 | Hahaha | 02:01 |
| mjg59 | Chipzz: FCC | 02:01 |
| mjg59 | Chipzz: Actually, paranoid lawyers | 02:01 |
| whiprush | something like "yeah, and so, the laptop guy is a total alcoholic ..." | 02:01 |
| whiprush | "that's how screwed we are." | 02:01 |
| mjg59 | Aw. I had one small glass of vodka yesterday. | 02:01 |
| mjg59 | And really quite a lot of beer the night before | 02:02 |
| \sh | that's nothing | 02:02 |
| Chipzz | mjg59: vodka-redbull! ;) | 02:02 |
| Chipzz | mjg59: anyway, what's different compared to ipw2[12] 00 for the lawyers? | 02:03 |
| \sh | Chipzz: that's pestilent :) | 02:04 |
| Chipzz | pestilent? | 02:04 |
| jdub | Chipzz: the norty stuff is done in software instead of firmware/hardware | 02:04 |
| Chipzz | jdub: "win-wifi"? :P :/ | 02:05 |
| jdub | yes | 02:05 |
| Chipzz | crap | 02:05 |
| Chipzz | have they learned NOTHING then? | 02:05 |
| === Chipzz sighs :( | ||
| Chipzz | you thought that after the whole win-modem debacle people would know better | 02:06 |
| Chipzz | ffs :( | 02:06 |
| Kamion | Riddell: could you add -I.bzrignore to the list of flags you pass to dpkg-source when building packages? I don't think there's much point in including .bzrignore in ubiquity source packages. | 02:06 |
| \sh | Chipzz: the redbull stuff in vodka | 02:06 |
| Chipzz | 14:00 < mjg59> Chipzz: Yeah, the situation is a bit complicated | 02:07 |
| Chipzz | hrrrm | 02:08 |
| Chipzz | nm that | 02:08 |
| whiprush | \sh: msg me please. | 02:08 |
| Kamion | Riddell: also your source tree isn't quite clean - you have debian/ubiquity-guadalinex-doc/ lying around there (which is commented out of debian/control, so debian/rules clean doesn't clean it) | 02:09 |
| infinity | Chipzz: Having software control the Tx/Rx power seems perfectly reasonable to me. It just also happens to be something the FCC would prefer was obfuscated and not generally available. | 02:12 |
| infinity | Chipzz: So, Intel releases a binary-only daemon to make the FCC happy and limit their liability, and other people reverse engineer it and provide a free alternative at their own risk (just as people take to wifi firmware with hex editors to make FCC-unfriendly changes currently) | 02:13 |
| Chipzz | hrrrm | 02:13 |
| Chipzz | could be worse I guess | 02:13 |
| infinity | Chipzz: In the end, if a free alternative is produced, I doubt the FCC will go after them, but Intel would prefer not to lose FCC licenses or suffer fines. Individuals likely care less. | 02:13 |
| Chipzz | infinity: and individuals would also be "less liable"? | 02:14 |
| Chipzz | (is that even a word, liable? :P) | 02:14 |
| infinity | Anyhow, the situation is a bit icky, the binary-only daemon is rather sketchy, but word on the street (from people who own the hardware) is that it works. | 02:14 |
| infinity | Chipzz: Individuals would be just as liable for pissing off the FCC, but if they do it outside the US, there's nothing they can really do about it. | 02:15 |
| Chipzz | infinity: what's the situation for us if people DO reverse engineer it? | 02:15 |
| infinity | And then the only people breaking the law are people who use the new free/open code to increase their transmission rates further than the law allows, which is your own risk, no one else's. | 02:15 |
| infinity | At any rate, the FCC's ability to demand obfuscation of code to change Tx power is sketchy at best. They may feel the urge to test it in court against someone they can make an example of (Intel, Broadcom, etc), but I doubt they'd care to go after Joe Q Hacker. Don't take that as solid legal advice to go do it, though. | 02:17 |
| Chipzz | so, either we include a binary only daemon, OR, we do not include a reverse engineered daemon? | 02:17 |
| infinity | I'll just wait for some enterprising Australian resident (oh wait, I live in .au) to do it. | 02:17 |
| infinity | Chipzz: Erm, what? No. Either we include the binary daemon, or we include a free/open one when one is made available. | 02:18 |
| Chipzz | either way it still sucks | 02:18 |
| Chipzz | "14:15 < infinity> And then the only people breaking the law are people who use the new free/open code" | 02:18 |
| infinity | Chipzz: Distributing it doesn't constitute circumvention any more than distributing a free zip file password cracker. | 02:18 |
| Chipzz | wouldn't that be a problem? | 02:18 |
| infinity | Chipzz: You cut off my sentence. | 02:18 |
| infinity | Chipzz: "people who use it to increase their Tx rates out of FCC-allowed spec" | 02:18 |
| infinity | Anyhow, way offtopic, not sure why I'm discussing this here. | 02:19 |
| Chipzz | sorry about that, didn't want to misrepresent what you said... guess I just misunderstood | 02:20 |
| Chipzz | k will shut-up now ;) | 02:20 |
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| sivang | infinity: not to mention the damage of radiation :) | 02:22 |
| sivang | infinity: when in access outside the limits, that is | 02:22 |
| Chipzz | sivang: the animals in tschernobil also survive... so will our children ;) | 02:22 |
| kmon | Hi. Anyone knows why the linux-image & linux-restricted-modules 2.6.15.21 update isn't available yet? | 02:23 |
| sivang | Chipzz: not sure how those experiments are conducted ;-) | 02:23 |
| infinity | kmon: Happening as we speak. | 02:23 |
| Chipzz | sivang: experiments? :) | 02:23 |
| kmon | infinity: Oh. Great :) | 02:23 |
| sivang | Chipzz: never mind, let's cut the off topic ness :) | 02:23 |
| Chipzz | sivang: uhu :) | 02:24 |
| sivang | infinity: so I heared yo're pulling in support for the new ATIs in the 60's :-) Couldn't you do that before I purchased my T43? | 02:24 |
| Kamion | kmon: when package names change, they go into the new queue for manual approval. | 02:25 |
| sivang | that is, for the {T|X}60's :-) | 02:25 |
| infinity | Kamion: Dude, is there a particularly sane reason why cron.daily-live returns instantly and does... Well... Nothing? | 02:26 |
| sivang | ah , actually not much of a problem, the current fglrx is giving nasty corruption that might still be worthwhile debugging even | 02:26 |
| highvoltage | sivang: i think the T43's are nicer than the 60's anyway :) | 02:26 |
| sivang | highvoltage: that's a first timer, and a cheering hand! Let me know your reasons :) | 02:26 |
| mdke | (in another channel) | 02:26 |
| highvoltage | sivang: well, first of all, the X60's are damn ugly | 02:27 |
| highvoltage | sivang: it's also a bit big, i like the idea of having a laptop that's at least mobile | 02:27 |
| highvoltage | sivang: and that big screen also drinks battery power like it's Sprite lite. | 02:27 |
| sivang | highvoltage: they claim to have ground breaking battery life :) | 02:28 |
| sivang | together with dual core processing, this seems a bit unreal | 02:28 |
| highvoltage | mdke: sorry, were you talking to us? | 02:28 |
| mdke | yeah | 02:28 |
| sivang | highvoltage: he's right, PMing | 02:28 |
| sivang | mdke: even though it's sunday? :-) | 02:28 |
| sivang | O:-) | 02:28 |
| infinity | Kamion: Oh. Filesystem's full. Feh. | 02:28 |
| Kamion | infinity: /dev/sda3 562456664 533885524 0 100% / | 02:29 |
| Kamion | I'll sort it out | 02:29 |
| mdke | sivang, it looks to me like the developers are trying to do some work, so yeah, keeping to the topic is important even today | 02:29 |
| === infinity never seems to look there first, until something whines about it. | ||
| infinity | (In this cash, baz whined) | 02:29 |
| infinity | s/cash/case/ | 02:29 |
| sivang | mdke: noted, agreed, sorry again :) | 02:33 |
| infinity | FWIW, I don't mind much when people let their hair down a bit on the weekend and go a bit off-topic here. Others may care more, though. :) | 02:34 |
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| sivang | infinity: all I can say, that I'm greatful for you giving an off topic advice here once, about getting 1400x1050 on a thinkpad :) | 02:40 |
| Kamion | infinity: little should be happier now | 02:44 |
| mdke | mjg59, I'm getting a debconf question for the latest acpi-support, is that intended? | 02:44 |
| mjg59 | mdke: No | 02:45 |
| mjg59 | Especially since it doesn't have any debconf support | 02:45 |
| mjg59 | What's the issue? | 02:45 |
| infinity | Uhm, yeah. No debconf at all... | 02:45 |
| infinity | mdke: Do you mean a conffile prompt? | 02:46 |
| infinity | (That would be intentional) | 02:46 |
| mdke | ah could be | 02:46 |
| mdke | sorry, I heard once that users shouldn't ever see those questions | 02:46 |
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| mdke | is that wrong? | 02:46 |
| infinity | No, users shouldn't ever see them IF no conffiles actually got changed. | 02:47 |
| infinity | You quite probably chnaged yours. :) | 02:47 |
| mdke | yes, I did. fine, thanks | 02:47 |
| infinity | Kamion: Thanks. | 02:47 |
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| infinity | Riddell: You have new ISOs. | 03:02 |
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| === \sh has to download an actual ubiquity source package.. | ||
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| zul | heylo | 03:16 |
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| bddebian | Howdy | 03:39 |
| \sh | hey bddebian | 03:40 |
| bddebian | Hi \sh! | 03:41 |
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| Surak | Kamion, I noticed the name of espresso changed to ubiquity. What happened? | 03:57 |
| jpatrick | Surak: make it more Ubuntu-ish | 03:57 |
| infinity | And give it some more meaning, as well... | 03:58 |
| infinity | "espresso" was meaningless, if you didn't know the name was derived from "Ubuntu Express" | 03:58 |
| infinity | But Ubiquity has meaning in itself, as in "we want Ubuntu to be Ubiquitous, and Ubiquity will help make that happen". | 03:59 |
| === infinity still has a fondness in his heart for pitti's "Prestobuntu" suggestion, though. | ||
| bddebian | hehe | 04:01 |
| Surak | prestobuntu reminds me of 'prestobarba', the most popular razor blade in brazil | 04:01 |
| bddebian | infinity: I don't suppose you ever got a chance to take a look at ivtools? | 04:01 |
| infinity | Nope, I've been busy slacking with beta releases and then falling deathly ill. | 04:02 |
| bddebian | Ugh, sorry to hear that | 04:02 |
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| bddebian | Heya zakame | 04:31 |
| zakame | hello bddebian! :D | 04:31 |
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| infinity | Riddell: Also, kdelibs is FTBFS, due to mismatched types in the cups stuff; kdewebdev is FTBFS trying to iterate a for loop over an empty glob. | 04:50 |
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| infinity | Diziet: Your mozilla-firefox-locale-all upload fails to build. | 04:51 |
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| infinity | Diziet: Your pango1.0 is also FTBS. | 04:52 |
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| mdke | ah, that explains the homepages breaking | 04:54 |
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| ssam | am i right in thinking that kde applications (eg kword) are hidden from the gnome menu? should Bug #40501 be rejected? | 04:56 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 40501 in koffice kword "Kword does not appear in menu" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/40501 | 04:56 |
| bddebian | mdke: Were you the one that was helping my dumb ass with anjuta? | 04:56 |
| mdke | bddebian, no, sorry | 04:58 |
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| bddebian | NP | 04:59 |
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| infinity | Diziet: Ahh, nevermind the pango1.0 failure, you should have just used a versioned build-dep on the newer fontconfig. Tsk, tsk. | 05:04 |
| bddebian | mdke: Well, what do you know about mime/xml files? :-) | 05:05 |
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| Riddell | ssam: they are not generally hidden | 05:10 |
| infinity | Diziet: And mozilla-firefox-locale-all seems much happier with a build-dep on ubuntu-docs. Fix uploaded. You're off the hook. | 05:10 |
| infinity | Riddell: You get to fix your own this time, though. :) | 05:10 |
| Riddell | infinity: yep, thanks | 05:11 |
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| ssam | Riddell, so it is a bug that kword does not show in the gnome menu? rather than policy? | 05:15 |
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| Riddell | ssam: yes | 05:15 |
| bddebian | Missing/broken .desktop file? | 05:16 |
| sivang | anybody seen smurf ? | 05:18 |
| bddebian | Heya sivang | 05:19 |
| bddebian | Not in the last 20 years or so.. ;-P | 05:19 |
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| bddebian | Hello pitti, Burgundavia | 05:21 |
| Burgundavia | salut bddebian | 05:21 |
| infinity | bddebian: And you get the lyx FTBFS, since you uploaded it last. Enjoy. | 05:22 |
| sivang | hey bddebian | 05:22 |
| sivang | bddebian: heh | 05:22 |
| sivang | hey pitti , 'sup? | 05:23 |
| bddebian | infinity: It FTBFSd? | 05:23 |
| infinity | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/lyx/1.3.7-0ubuntu2 | 05:23 |
| infinity | That list of 6 build failures looks pretty failed to me. | 05:23 |
| bddebian | Ack, WTF I didn't get that locally.. Grr | 05:25 |
| === infinito [n=infinito@VPNPOOL01-0474.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| \sh | pbuilding ? | 05:29 |
| \sh | or chrooting? | 05:29 |
| \sh | looks like you didn't run make debian/rules clean before :) | 05:30 |
| bddebian | Typically pbuilder | 05:30 |
| \sh | then it's not installed in the right place...debian/lyx.xml looks quite strange :) | 05:30 |
| pitti | hi bddebian, hey sivang | 05:31 |
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| \sh | ok...cu later gentlemen... | 05:32 |
| infinity | pitti: Okay, looks like someone's packaged php-sqlite3 in Debian. So, I'm just going to split php-sqlite out of the PHP source completely, so we can punt it to universe. | 05:32 |
| jdub | ! | 05:32 |
| pitti | infinity: cool | 05:33 |
| jdub | but the lampies will cry | 05:33 |
| pitti | infinity: just wait with it until you are back to good health | 05:33 |
| infinity | pitti: Yeah, I may work on some Debian stuff on the laptop in bed tomorrow between naps. | 05:33 |
| pitti | jdub: it's just to get sqlite0 to universe and use sqlite3 consistently | 05:33 |
| infinity | pitti: Cause you know how good I am at avoiding computers. :/ | 05:33 |
| jdub | *oh* | 05:33 |
| jdub | bonus :) | 05:34 |
| infinity | I mean, here I am, I've completely lost my voice, and it's late Sunday night (technically Monday morning now), and I'm hunting build failure instead of sleeping. Go me. :/ | 05:34 |
| infinity | Perhaps I should go try to sleep again. | 05:35 |
| pitti | infinity: have your gf take away all your computers | 05:36 |
| infinity | Then I'll just use hers. | 05:36 |
| jdub | pitti meant your-plural | 05:37 |
| bddebian | Ack, where the fsck did that come from. There isn't a lyx.xml anywhere in the package... | 05:38 |
| jdub | moon-lander (1:1.0-4ubuntu2) dapper; urgency=low | 05:39 |
| jdub | . | 05:39 |
| jdub | * Install moon-lander.desktop from debian/ instead of from $(CURDIR) | 05:39 |
| jdub | 05:39 | |
| jdub | infinity: GO TO BED | 05:39 |
| bddebian | jdub: ? | 05:39 |
| infinity | But mo-ooooom, I want to stay up and watch Night Court! | 05:40 |
| bddebian | heh | 05:40 |
| jdub | on the moon? | 05:40 |
| === jdub also goes to bed | ||
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| nomed | Kamion: ping | 06:03 |
| nomed | Kamion: could you check please the bug #40095 again ? | 06:04 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 40095 in espresso "from poke_gnome_screensaver to turn_off_screensaver" [Normal,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/40095 | 06:04 |
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| nomed | xscreensaver-command --disable should be --deactivate | 06:06 |
| nomed | i'm tetsing now espresso .. and it gtkui has the wrong opt for xscreensaver | 06:07 |
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| Kamion | nomed: y'know, I do read e-mail. No need to poke me on IRC too. :) | 06:14 |
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| nomed | Kamion: well i wrote the email later :) | 06:17 |
| nomed | Kamion: one other question .. | 06:18 |
| Kamion | fix committing, anyway | 06:18 |
| nomed | what is time-admin ? | 06:18 |
| Kamion | part of gnome-system-tools | 06:18 |
| Kamion | should be in xubuntu-system-tools or whatever it's called as well | 06:18 |
| nomed | espresso freeze in xubuntu | 06:18 |
| nomed | for that cmd | 06:19 |
| nomed | xubuntu-system-tools is not yet in main | 06:19 |
| nomed | :/ | 06:19 |
| Kamion | I could make the button invisible if time-admin isn't available | 06:19 |
| nomed | it's absolutely needed | 06:19 |
| Kamion | not really | 06:20 |
| Kamion | well, not for ubiquity anyway | 06:20 |
| nomed | or just add gnome-system-tools in deps | 06:20 |
| Kamion | it's not a dependency, but I'll recommend it | 06:20 |
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| beerockxs | why does xchat-common depend on xchat? | 06:23 |
| infinity | beerockxs: Because it's useless without it? | 06:24 |
| Kamion | nomed: fixes in my bzr branch | 06:24 |
| beerockxs | infinity: xchat-gnome depends on it | 06:24 |
| beerockxs | infinity: I don't want both xchat and xchat-gnome | 06:24 |
| nomed | Kamion: perfect | 06:25 |
| infinity | beerockxs: No it doesn't... | 06:25 |
| infinity | beerockxs: xchat-common has nothing to do with xchat-gnome. | 06:26 |
| beerockxs | infinity: erm, oops. nevermind me, I'm stupid | 06:26 |
| highvoltage | infinity: aren't you supposed to be in bed by now? | 06:27 |
| infinity | Yes. | 06:27 |
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| doko | Kamion: zope: zope-externaleditor_0.8-2.1 is already in the archive, although apt-cache showsrc still shows the 0.8-1ubuntu1 version | 07:20 |
| Kamion | zope-externaleditor | 0.8-1ubuntu1 | dapper/universe | all | 07:23 |
| Kamion | zope-externaleditor | 0.8-2.1 | dapper/universe | source | 07:23 |
| Kamion | odd | 07:23 |
| Kamion | FTBFS? | 07:23 |
| doko | yes, missing build dep | 07:27 |
| doko | fixed in the version you are syncing | 07:28 |
| Kamion | ok, will override. Unfortunately all syncs are blocked on bug 40958 | 07:29 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 40958 in qprocd "all sync attempts fail" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/40958 | 07:29 |
| Kamion | I'll poke cprov about that tomorrow | 07:30 |
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| doko | Kamion: ohh, ok, then you do have time processing some NEW stuff? ;-) | 07:34 |
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| nomed | Kamion: the [ubiquity (?) |espresso] installation worked fine this time .. | 07:39 |
| nomed | juts an issue with gparted that could re-format a partition ... i couldn't debug it .. | 07:40 |
| nomed | s/could re-format/couldn't/ | 07:40 |
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| Kamion | doko: I'll do some of them, at least. Also you say that as if I haven't done any NEW processing today, which isn't true :P | 07:49 |
| doko | Kamion: no, I didn't mean that. sorry if it did sound like that | 07:50 |
| Kamion | heh | 07:50 |
| Kamion | np | 07:50 |
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| doko | Kamion: my interest was to get azureus in, others required by that are glib-java, cairo-java and bouncycastle | 07:51 |
| slomo | doko: does azureus finally run with classpath? there was a missing class last time i tried | 07:54 |
| Kamion | doko: yep, all done now | 07:54 |
| Kamion | doko: you asked for bouncycastle to go to main, but we only do that if it's split out from something already in main or else really really obviously OK, so I've put it in universe; if you want it in main, get pitti to check it over as usual | 07:55 |
| Kamion | somebody had already done openoffice.org-gtk, it seems | 07:55 |
| Kamion | (infinity I think) | 07:55 |
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| === Kamion finally realises the real root cause for espresso eating people's partition tables, and curses Python | ||
| doko | Kamion: ohh, no, it should stay in universe, not main. | 07:56 |
| Kamion | whose bright idea was it to install a SIGPIPE handler by default, and then not have the subprocess module set it back to the default | 07:56 |
| doko | slomo: which one? | 07:57 |
| slomo | doko: something ssl related... but it's some months ago so everything could've changed | 07:58 |
| doko | slomo: at least it's not needed for _building_. I know that classpath is still lacking ssl support. | 07:59 |
| sivang | re all | 08:03 |
| slomo | doko: hm... i can try again tomorrow maybe... but it would be nice to have this in the archives :) | 08:05 |
| bddebian | Ah ha, it wasn't my fault. New upstream of lyx whacked my lyx.xml | 08:11 |
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| sivang | bddebian: excuses, excuses! :-D | 08:14 |
| bddebian | That's what I do best. ;-P | 08:15 |
| === sivang ROTFLS | ||
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| sivang | mjg59: I see you turned off the default to use laptop-mode on batt power, should I expect batt life reduction if I install the package shipped conf file? | 09:02 |
| jdong | I hope that's a temporary workaround, though :) | 09:04 |
| jdong | sivang: laptop-mode had this nasty bug where it'd spin down drives every 5 seconds | 09:04 |
| zyga | hmm, I'll ask a nasty question: did anyone notice problems with network-manager dying with 'cannot find required component' | 09:05 |
| jdong | zyga: yes; installing nm-applet and a logout/login fixed that | 09:06 |
| zyga | jdong: hmm :) | 09:06 |
| zyga | missing dependency | 09:06 |
| jdong | :) | 09:06 |
| zyga | thanks, did you file a bug? | 09:06 |
| jdong | no; I did not | 09:06 |
| zyga | the UGLY thing is I already have a binary called nm-applet | 09:07 |
| zyga | *g8 | 09:07 |
| jdong | yeah | 09:07 |
| zyga | hmm? | 09:07 |
| jdong | I thought nm-applet was supposed to be an empty metapackage | 09:07 |
| zyga | nm-applet is empty | 09:07 |
| jdong | (transitional package) | 09:07 |
| zyga | right | 09:07 |
| jdong | :-/ | 09:07 |
| zyga | hmm | 09:07 |
| zyga | queer | 09:07 |
| zyga | I'll relogin to be sure | 09:07 |
| mjg59 | sivang: Yes | 09:07 |
| jdong | the complaint from nm-applet was a missing VPN lock ico | 09:07 |
| jdong | icon* | 09:07 |
| sivang | mjg59: this is due to what jdong said? :) | 09:08 |
| mjg59 | sivang: No | 09:08 |
| mjg59 | It's /supposed/ to spin drives down | 09:08 |
| mjg59 | It just also had a nasty habit of hanging the machine | 09:08 |
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| zyga | hmm | 09:09 |
| sivang | mjg59: okay, just to tell you that it's pretty amazing - the drive is almost always turned off, I made a record breaking uptime on batt with this new 9 cell t43p compared to windoze :) | 09:09 |
| sivang | mjg59: and it's a 7200 rpm drive :) | 09:10 |
| === sivang rejects the package conffile changes. | ||
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| zyga | hmm | 09:10 |
| zyga | ugly | 09:10 |
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| zyga | I remember something bad during boot process, usplash going out and something blinked for a moment regarding network manager dispatcher | 09:11 |
| sivang | zyga: see, the spindowns can annoy you at times, buf if you're calm, working on code not doing anything IO intensive it makes your laptop run and run ane run...:) | 09:11 |
| sivang | jdong: I take it you were bothered by the spin donws? | 09:11 |
| zyga | sivang: my laptop has a dead battery | 09:11 |
| zyga | :-) | 09:11 |
| === zyga will reboot to be sure | ||
| sivang | mjg59: however, I'm using fglrx and resume/suspend only comes back if I wake it up again after a *short* period of time | 09:12 |
| === abelcheung_ is now known as abelcheung | ||
| mjg59 | sivang: Shrug. | 09:14 |
| mjg59 | I recommend not doing that :) | 09:14 |
| sivang | mjg59: well, you've done a wonderful job in enabling agresive power savin, why should I refuse to use it ? :) | 09:15 |
| mjg59 | Fixing fglrx bugs is basically impossible for us | 09:17 |
| mjg59 | Whereas ati just got fixed to do suspend/resume on PCIE hardware | 09:17 |
| sivang | mjg59: hmm, the t43p is all PCI-E ? | 09:18 |
| === sivang searches thinkwiki | ||
| sivang | yay, good fonts are back | 09:19 |
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| mjg59 | sivang: Yes | 09:19 |
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| zyga | aww | 09:21 |
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| sivang | mjg59: I see there are already attempts to make the Accelerometer work under linux, maybe we could start working on a nice pack for next relead - fingerprint (will check this later think week) , the acceleration sensor, maybe even offering iBM to port "Access IBM" to ubuntu? | 09:23 |
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| shaya | #thincback | 09:24 |
| shaya | argh | 09:24 |
| mjg59 | Fingerprint stuff requires non-free drivers | 09:24 |
| sivang | mjg59: ah, againt the dreadful code sharing agreenments etc? | 09:24 |
| sivang | (like with fglrx) | 09:24 |
| zyga | does anyone have network-manager crashing? | 09:25 |
| shaya | anyone else having panic's on X startup due to fglrx? | 09:25 |
| mjg59 | sivang: I'm just not going anywhere near any closed-source code if I can possibly help it | 09:27 |
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| === sivang wished there was a way to make IBM release the specs | ||
| Keybuk | to? | 09:30 |
| mjg59 | The fingerprint reader isn't designed by them | 09:31 |
| mdke | meh, the fingerprint reader is a total waste of time, at least on windows | 09:31 |
| mdke | if you disactivate it, it feels like you've just got an extra gig of ram | 09:32 |
| sivang | mdke: for some reason, even after I've enabled it, it still auto logs on after telling to swipe finger an waiting few secs | 09:32 |
| sivang | mjg59: who does? | 09:32 |
| === mdke topic-censors himself | ||
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| sivang | seems accelerometer driver is in mainline, maybe it only required a GUI now... | 09:36 |
| highvoltage | mdke: setting an example? :) | 09:36 |
| mjg59 | sivang: UTEK | 09:37 |
| mjg59 | Uh | 09:37 |
| mjg59 | UPEK | 09:37 |
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| sivang | UPEK ? | 09:41 |
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| sivang | nice, there are already some applets. only need packaging if not already in debian. /me checks | 09:43 |
| sivang | (for accelerometer) | 09:43 |
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| shaya | accelerometer needs more than that | 09:46 |
| Keybuk | sladen was geeking over one at Debconf last year | 09:46 |
| shaya | needs a way to park the disk to be of real use | 09:46 |
| Keybuk | trying to make it an input device or something | 09:46 |
| shaya | I'm unconvinced it can be done efficiently from user space | 09:47 |
| Keybuk | shackan: hdparm -Y isn't it? | 09:47 |
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| mjg59 | No | 09:48 |
| mjg59 | That just gets woken up again by the kernel | 09:48 |
| _ion | Wouldn't be fun if the accelerometer daemon process just happened to reside in swap, when the laptop fell to the floor. :-) | 09:49 |
| zyga | _ion: har har | 09:49 |
| zyga | _ion: isn't that a kernel code? | 09:50 |
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| _ion | zyga: I was talking about a hypothetical userspace daemon. | 09:50 |
| zyga | _ion: mlock could help | 09:50 |
| _ion | zyga: Note the ":-)" | 09:51 |
| zyga | oh | 09:51 |
| zyga | I'm too serious today ;] | 09:51 |
| _ion | Maybe ";-)" would have been more appropriate. | 09:51 |
| sivang | shaya: accoridng to THinkWiki, there is a kernel patch that allos an HD to be protected by a user space process. | 09:52 |
| shaya | yes | 09:53 |
| zyga | sivang: how fast the hdd can spin down? | 09:53 |
| shaya | I'm unconvinced in its efficiency | 09:53 |
| zyga | less than 0.5s? | 09:53 |
| sivang | shaya: ah, i see | 09:53 |
| mjg59 | There's an emergency park command | 09:53 |
| sivang | zyga: no idea | 09:53 |
| mjg59 | You don't actually want it to stop spinning, you just want the heads to be away from the platters | 09:53 |
| sivang | exactly | 09:54 |
| zyga | mjg59: what if the heads got stuck in an emergency jam ;-) | 09:54 |
| sivang | so they won't scratch the metal of the platter | 09:54 |
| zyga | ah | 09:54 |
| zyga | smart | 09:54 |
| zyga | the heads can probably seek away quite fast | 09:54 |
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| TTT_Travis | TomB! | 09:55 |
| shaya | its not just how long it takes kernel to react | 09:55 |
| shaya | its how long it takes process to react | 09:55 |
| shaya | prone to scheduler whims | 09:55 |
| sivang | "A kernel patch is required for disk head parking and queue freezing." | 09:56 |
| sivang | what does it mean about "queue freezing" ? | 09:56 |
| shaya | sivang: if you don't freeze the IO queue, heads will depark right away | 09:56 |
| zyga | sivang: probably io-queue | 09:56 |
| sivang | shaya: ah, inside the kernel right? | 09:57 |
| _ion | IMO that should be something entirely done by hardware. The accelerometer controller should be able to tell the HDD{,s} to park the heads immediately. The OS would receive the event, but it wouldn't need to react. | 09:58 |
| sivang | _ion: is the same on windows, as per "by design" :-) | 09:58 |
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| _ion | Something like human's reflexes the hardware has already reacted, when the OS receives and handles the event. :-) | 10:00 |
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| === zyga is thinking about unofficial, underdog, abandonware packaged for ubuntu... | ||
| KaiL_ | nice to read about ipw3945 in the Changelog - good work ;) | 10:10 |
| KaiL_ | now only ATi is missing to say that at least in theory all current laptops are fully supported :) | 10:11 |
| mjg59 | KaiL_: Being worked on, though no promises | 10:11 |
| KaiL_ | mjg59, todays kernel images include ipw3945 | 10:12 |
| mjg59 | KaiL_: Yes, I meant ATI | 10:13 |
| KaiL_ | ah, ok | 10:13 |
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| sivang | _ion: tell that to those producing the sensor :) | 10:18 |
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| jdong | KaiL_: ATI is still missing what? | 10:36 |
| KaiL_ | jdong, means there is still no driver for Radeon X1400 and friends in ubuntu | 10:37 |
| Tm_T | interesting | 10:39 |
| jdong | KaiL_: that was just uploaded with the ipw3945 | 10:39 |
| Tm_T | looks like there's bunch of screensavers disappeared | 10:39 |
| KaiL_ | ah, really | 10:40 |
| KaiL_ | Changelog for restricted modules didn't mention that | 10:40 |
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| === jdong pulls up changelog | ||
| jdong | linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 (2.6.15.9-1) dapper; urgency=low | 10:41 |
| jdong | . | 10:41 |
| jdong | * Update fglrx to 8.24.8, which includes support for the Radeon X1n00 series | 10:41 |
| jdong | and the Mobility Radeon X1n00 series cards (closes: launchpad.net/39924) | 10:41 |
| KaiL_ | hmm, more than one entry, that's why I didn#t see it | 10:42 |
| KaiL_ | I should think about getting a daily build live-CD to try on an Core Duo Laptop ;) | 10:43 |
| jdong | KaiL_: likewise; I got my eyes set on one with a X1400, too | 10:46 |
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| KaiL_ | I tried an FSC Amilo Pi1536 with Flight6, on which ipw3945 and the X1400 where the only visible problems, so it SHOULD be fully supported now - the only question, as always, is suspend | 10:47 |
| KaiL_ | and the SD reader, but that seams to be hopeless for now | 10:47 |
| jdong | cool | 10:50 |
| jdong | elmo: can you push through some of the backports requests for breezy? | 10:50 |
| jdong | elmo: I'm starting to get some users impatient around here :( | 10:50 |
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| jdong | elmo: (https://launchpad.net/people/elmo/+assignedbugs), there's only around 5 packages | 10:51 |
| KaiL_ | backports are evil :p | 10:52 |
| KaiL_ | and somebody blame ATI for being even to stupid, to fill the "version" field for their module | 10:52 |
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