/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/04/29/#ubuntu-devel.txt

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mrothcan anyone comment on bug 30984?  It seems serious enough to warrant the newer version of powernowd despite UVF.12:26
UbugtuMalone bug 30984 in powernowd "(Dapper) kernel 2.6.15.15-686 breaks freq scaling on core duo" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3098412:26
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jdongmroth: if I'm reading that bug report properly, powernowd does not currently scale the 2nd processor?12:38
jdongthat is indeed an issue12:38
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mrothjdong: thats the issue.  CPU0 scales freely, CPU1 stays at 100%12:47
mrothjdong: one of the last comments on the bug seems to suggest its fixed upstream in powernowd 0.9712:47
jdongthat's undesirable for Dapper. Multi-core systems are going to become ubiquitous12:47
mrothagreed.12:47
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jdongyes, it is true12:52
jdongand damn are those core duos fast at compiling powernowd!12:52
jdonga sloppy 0.97 "backport" does fix the problem12:52
jdongalthough the modprobe order is still finicky12:52
jdongwhether or not I need to manually add the speedstep modules to /etc/modules12:52
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coz_ok I just downloaded the current dapper daily build01:25
coz_i installed it using the espresso installer01:25
coz_first there is no screen resolution chooser in the espresso installer bad move01:26
coz_second five (5) clean installs on four machines created the same results after the updates System would not boot01:26
coz_now i understand that dapper is in beta etc etc, however please if you have updates make sure they ar completely tested before posting them01:27
Keybukcoz_: daily builds aren't tested01:27
Keybukthat's kinda the point01:27
Keybukthey're builds *to* test01:27
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coz_this also happened with a flight cd when the updates were installed01:27
Keybukif you wanted a tested build, you wanted the Beta or Flight releases01:27
KeybukFlights are tested before release01:27
coz_Keybuk, same thing happend with the flight cds01:28
Keybukif you have a problem, then it's one that is unique to your machine01:28
coz_well not well enough with the updates01:28
coz_Keybuk, four different machines identical results01:28
Keybukinteresting01:28
coz_we do testing building and installations as well as system integrations here01:28
Keybukthere are probably a million working dapper installs right now01:29
coz_same results on all machines with the cirrent updates linux images etc01:29
Keybukso you have a cute bug01:29
coz_they do not work01:29
coz_Keybuk, not me you guys01:29
Keybukthanks for helping us test Ubuntu01:29
Keybukwhat's the particular problem?  is there an error during boot01:29
coz_Keybuk, I take this os seriously I have to support with clients01:29
coz_] now none of them have dapper yet but I deal with clients programmers etc all day long01:30
Keybukwe would not suggest you ship dapper at this time01:30
Keybukobviously once it's released it will be fully supported01:30
coz_Keybuk,  yes yes I undersatnd but had to vent01:30
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Keybukventing isn't useful, it's just rude in general01:30
Keybukif you have a problem, then it's reasonably safe to assume you have a problem nobody else has had01:30
coz_Keybuk, this venting is neither rude or anything other than constructive 01:31
Keybukif dapper didn't work for anybody, we wouldn't be online right now :)01:31
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Keybukso let's do something more constructive01:31
coz_it is a fact that has occurred to day five times clean installs01:31
Keybukwhat's the problem you're having?01:31
coz_system does not boot after installation of cirrent updates particularly the linux kernel updates01:31
Keybukok, "does not boot" is rather vague01:31
KeybukI assume that it at least powers up and gets the machine past POST01:32
Keybukso it's at least partially booting01:32
Keybukat some point, the boot must fail01:32
coz_cannot read root file system01:32
Keybukok, now there's two different errors01:32
Keybukis it unable to identify the type of the root filesystem01:32
Keybukor is it unable to find the root filesystem01:32
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Keybukwhat's the _exact_ error message/01:32
coz_I will do ti again write everything down for you01:33
Keybukok01:33
coz_i will do this on three machines01:33
coz_be bback in about an hour or so01:33
Keybukgah01:33
Keybukhe went too quick01:33
ajmitchheh01:34
HrdwrBoBit's quite possble that devices get reordered or something01:34
ajmitchnice & polite01:34
bddebianheh01:34
Keybukajmitch: if you're still here in an hour, tell him I've gone to bed :p01:34
ajmitchI doubt I'll be here in an hour either01:34
HrdwrBoBI'll tell him01:34
ajmitchthanks01:34
Keybukhe can e-mail me at scott@ubuntu.com and I'll follow it up in the morning01:35
robertjHas there been any discussion about having gksu reask on a bad password?01:35
KeybukI suspect it's just the "failed to update initramfs properly" bug01:35
Keybukgiven he particularly mentions "current updates"01:35
robertjI've filed it upstream & noone has looked at it01:35
Keybukajmitch: heh, it's amazing just how many people really think that if something goes wrong then it's our fault for not testing it properly01:36
Keybukand obviously, that everyone in the world must have the same problem01:36
ajmitchand obviously we're incompetent because of that01:36
Keybukobviously01:36
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zulwohoo... 2-201:40
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jdubhttp://www.x64bit.net/site/board/index.php?act=ST&f=73&t=2386&st=0#entry2146201:42
bddebianzul: What's that my upload to build failure ratio for lyx? :-)01:42
jdub^ 'gnome-screensaver' ... ?! wonder how they managed that01:42
zulbddebian: nope..im watching th hockey game01:44
bddebianAh :-)01:44
Keybukhmm, my boyfriend is doing one of those "Come up with one word to describe each other" games ... and just described me as "Special"01:54
KeybukI'm sure he meant well, but I *cannot* get the image of elmo thumping his chest and saying "spethial" out of my mind01:54
Keybuk:p01:54
lifelesshahah01:59
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Keybukelmo is responsible for so much02:01
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zulwohoo..3-202:07
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defendguinjdong: i am having the same scaling problem with the core duo process as you were where did you get a ubuntu package for powernowd? 02:29
defendguins/process/processor02:30
jdongdefendguin: I hacked together my own from upstream tar.gz and current ubuntu diff.gz02:30
jdongit was on a livecd, btw... I don't actually own a core duo yet02:30
coz_Ok shortened the process by installing on only three machines and here are the results     http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/HKuTYA25.html02:31
defendguinyou dont happen to know when 0.97 is going to make it into dapper?02:31
crimsuncoz_: he went to bed. e-mail him at scott@ubuntu.com02:35
coz_crimsun, I can wait til tomorow02:35
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HrdwrBoByeah it's the mkinitramfs problem02:36
HrdwrBoBOFFS02:36
HrdwrBoBno, not interested in hearing how to fix it.02:36
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robertjwowzers... deb http://oss.oracle.com/debian unstable main non-free03:24
jdongdefendguin: I don't know if it's going to be. Keep an eye on the LP bug report on the issue; I hope a UVF is granted for it03:27
defendguinjdong: who gets to grant one for it?03:30
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jdongdefendguin: one of the big powers around here... not me :)03:31
defendguinjdong: big powers?03:31
jdongdefendguin: like mdz03:31
defendguinthis issue is going to be effecting a lot of new laptops and without it its gonna be sapping battery life03:32
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tsengMithrandir: are you in charge of "resolution on livecd is way off"03:34
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tsengMithrandir: i didnt even know my monitor could do this, 1024x768 centered in 'native' 1680x1050 boxed out03:35
HrdwrBoBdefendguin: affecting03:35
defendguinHrdwrBoB: bug 3098403:36
UbugtuMalone bug 30984 in powernowd "(Dapper) kernel 2.6.15.15-686 breaks freq scaling on core duo" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3098403:36
HrdwrBoByeah, I just meant it's affect not effect03:36
HrdwrBoBbut, nm03:37
defendguin??03:37
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klepas>seen sabdfl03:58
klepasmhh03:58
klepas:(03:58
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bddebianShould we close main bugs already assigned to someone?04:37
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jmgogra_ibook: ping06:10
jmganyone run ubuntu on a macbok pro?06:13
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Burgundaviajmg: mjg59 does06:17
Burgundaviajmg: however, it needs hacking to get it working, unless you use bootcamp06:18
jmgBurgundavia: any url to the hacking? we cant even make it boot with bootcamp.06:20
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Burgundaviajmg: I haven't seen anything, sorry06:22
jmgBurgundavia: thx06:23
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robitailleping jdub 07:18
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pittiGood morning07:57
ajmitchmorning pitti 07:57
klepasmoin07:57
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ajmitchhey dholbach 07:58
dholbachgood morning07:58
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sivangmorning everybody08:11
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dholbachwho can all delete packages from the archive (apart from Kamion)? Is it the ubuntu-archive team?08:13
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infinitydholbach: In theory, a number of us have access to do so, in practice, only Kamion's been doing archive cruft cleanup so far.08:16
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infinitydholbach: I wouldn't have any issues with doing it myself, but I'd probably ask him for a 20 second run-down of "how not to disrupt Kamion's workflow" before I start breaking things.08:17
dholbachinfinity: Yeah, I understand. I'm going to file a bug, and assign to ubuntu-archive - maybe Kamion then decides to teach all members of the team beforehand or do it himself. :-)08:18
infinity:)08:18
dholbachIt's just that I remembered that somebody from last time's AptGetOrg run would have liked to get his packages removed and I'd like to do that.08:19
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Mithrandirtseng: if you could attach the output of ddcprobe, your xorg.log and your xorg.conf to the bug report I might be able to tell you if it's the same bug or not, at least08:21
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jdubrobitaille: pong08:36
robitaillejdub:  could you put me back on planet.u.c?  It seems the feed is from for my blog...according to the feed link on the right-hand side of the page.  thanks.08:37
robitailleit seems the feed link was changed to some sort of "maintenance.html" link08:38
jdubrobitaille: oh, that'd be blogspot breaking or something08:38
jdubrobitaille: do you have a feedburner thingy?08:39
robitailleno.  you think it work better?08:39
jdubyeah08:39
jdubblogspot seems to give the finger to regular aggregators08:39
jdubit's really annoying :(08:39
robitailleok.  Give me a second.  I have a feedburner account..or used to.  I'll dig it up and link to it08:40
jdubrock, ta08:40
robitaillejdub:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/robitaille08:43
jdubrobitaille: *fixing*08:43
highvoltageubuntu dapper beta sounds like one of those fraternaties in the american movies.08:44
jdubrobitaille: oh, feedburner is atom now08:45
robitailleisn't supposed to be in alphabetic order?   beta-dapper-ubuntu?  b-d-u08:45
robitaillejdub:  maybe that's just the default? since blogspot is atom to start with.08:45
robitailleI'm sure there must be an option somewhere to put it in rss2 mode08:46
robitaillelet me look08:46
jdubrobitaille: is ok, i'll upgrade planet :)08:46
robitailleI found it.  so should I switch to rss2?08:47
jdubnaw, no problem08:47
robitailleok.08:47
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robitaillejdub:  according to feeedburner, they serve the feeds using their SmartFeed(tm) technology that "Translates your feed on-the-fly into a format (RSS or Atom) compatible with your visitors' feed reader application".  So they claim planet.u.c is asking for atom :)08:49
jduboh08:50
jdubi tried with my browser08:50
jdubi don't know what planet would get08:50
jdubi guess i should try :)08:50
lifelessrobitaille: the sound like they are on crack.08:50
lifelessrobitaille: what Vary: headers do they emit ?08:51
Mithrandirjdub: ACCEPT_HEADER = "application/atom+xml,application/rdf+xml,application/rss+xml,application/x-netcdf,application/xml;q=0.9,text/xml;q=0.2,*/*;q=0.1"08:51
Mithrandiris the default08:51
robitaillelifeless:  yes it seems they varies the feeds on the fly...at least according to their marketing-speak.    08:56
lifelessrobitaille: yes, but do they emit a valid vary: header08:57
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pittimh21: moin moin Mischa08:57
mh21pitti: goedemorgen08:58
robitaillelifeless:  don't think so.  I'm guessing they look at the user-agent of the apps looking at the feed, and adjust accordingly the format.  Using firefox, it shows up as an atom feed that happens to be human readable according to the source.08:59
lifelessrobitaille: if they don't emit a vary header, they are breaking rfc 2616 09:00
lifelesswhich would not surprise me09:00
jdublifeless: a basic HEAD doesn't give me a vary header09:02
lifelessdoes it give cache-control ?09:03
jdubHEAD /robitaille HTTP/1.109:04
jdubHost: feeds.feedburner.com09:04
jdubHTTP/1.1 200 OK09:04
jdubDate: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:03:47 GMT09:04
jdubServer: Apache/2.0.54 (Debian GNU/Linux) mod_jk/1.2.1509:04
jdubLast-Modified: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:01:16 GMT09:04
jdubETag: 1FwyXFdKLC001TWyzVczUpnAhCU09:04
jdubContent-Length: 1581509:04
jdubContent-Type: text/xml;charset=utf-809:04
jdub09:04
lifelesshmm, scary they have an etag in there, I wonder if they regenerate it for each feed style09:04
lifelessand yes, definately rfc2616 bustified09:05
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lifelessthats a cachable response, which means different clients sharing a cache will get the same content 09:05
Mithrandirlifeless: Apache adds it by default unless they're just generating all their own headers.09:05
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lifelessMithrandir: I know.09:05
lifelessMithrandir: and it can get it wrong because of that (I've seen some -nasty- stuff)09:06
jameshMithrandir: that etag doesn't look like one Apache would generate for static content09:06
G0SUB_jdub: can you kindly create a mailing list for ebuntu? It has been months since I requested09:06
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nomedhi all09:06
Mithrandirjamesh: true dat09:07
jameshMithrandir: the static content etags from apache are made up of 3 dash separated hex strings09:07
jameshsize, mtime and inode, iirc09:07
nomedogra_ibook: ping09:07
nomedone question .. does edubuntu autologin ?09:07
jameshalso, the etag is meant to be in quotes ...09:07
jdubG0SUB_: i should've replied again to check - you didn't give me an answer re: ebuntu-devel vs. ebuntu-users09:07
nomedi mean  the livecd ...09:08
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G0SUB_jdub: kindly make one ebuntu-users for the time being09:09
lifelessanyway, feedburner seem rather useless for content negotiation compliance09:09
jdubG0SUB_: i also asked if you could confirm this with the CC, due to the similar name with edubuntu09:10
jdubG0SUB_: was that sorted?09:10
jameshlifeless: maybe they assume that the feeds are accessed infrequently enough that they won't get cached09:10
G0SUB_jdub: I never got any mail from you wrt this issue09:10
jameshlifeless: or that the format conversion isn't actually necessary, so it doesn't matter ...09:10
jdubG0SUB_: it was the same mail09:10
G0SUB_jdub: same as in?09:11
lifelessjamesh: its nonconformat any which way09:11
jdubG0SUB_: same as the users/devel q09:11
G0SUB_jdub: i didn't even get that mail09:11
G0SUB_jdub: else I would have replied quickly09:11
jdubG0SUB_: if you could bring it up with the CC, that'd be helpful - i don't want to cause confusion between the subprojects09:12
G0SUB_jdub: that's true. fine09:12
G0SUB_jdub: can you kindly resend the mail to me? it seems I never got it09:12
TheMusoMithrandir: I have some a11y bugfixes for you, do you have any casper changes that you need to commit before I merge/update my tree here?09:12
MithrandirTheMuso: I pushed something on friday, iirc.  You might want to merge those if you haven't.09:13
TheMusoYeah doing so.09:13
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Lathiatdoes ubiquity/espresso support ntfs resizing?09:17
BurgundaviaLathiat: as it uses partman, I assume so09:20
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G0SUB_jdub: anyway, thanks for letting me know. I will get the issue solved09:24
TheMuso...or not. Just found something else that needs attention. Will ping you when it is all ready to fetch.09:26
TheMusoMithrandir: BTW, is there supposed to be /target in 22gnome_panel_data or /root?09:35
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MithrandirTheMuso: /root.09:36
TheMusohmm. Right. You want me to fix that?09:36
MithrandirTheMuso: I'll fix it myself, but thanks for noticing09:37
TheMusoOk fine by me.09:37
TheMusoI won't be ready to push for a little while now, so np.09:38
MithrandirTheMuso: fixed, pushed.09:42
TheMusoOk thanks.09:42
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pittiwb mh2110:02
Mithrandirogra_ibook: does edubuntu have gdm-cdd.conf as an alternative?10:03
nomedthat's what i really would figure out me too ...10:12
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nomedMithrandir: in case you know something more about this could you ping me ?10:15
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nomedthere is an issue in xubuntu about this .. it seems it doesn't use|find  that file10:15
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pittisivang: ping10:21
mdkemorning all10:22
TheMusoMithrandir: Are you aware thata the /etc/hosts file in casper is formatted differently to the /etc/hosts file found on installed systems. If so, is this for a good reason?10:23
pittihi mdke 10:24
Mithrandirnomed: yes, I know what the issue is, but janimo isn't around atm.10:24
MithrandirTheMuso: it's not on purpose, no10:24
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sivangpitti: pong10:26
pittisivang: backuppc is yours, right?10:26
sivangpitti: hrm, no :)10:27
sivangpitti: why?10:27
pittisivang: ok, nevermind then10:27
nomedMithrandir: what i know is that gdm-cdd.conf --> in alternatives --> etc/xdg/xubuntu/gdm-cdd.conf10:27
nomedif i'm not wrong10:27
nomedthe file is in xubuntu-default-settings ...10:27
Mithrandirnomed: it's a violation of a "should" in Debian policy.10:28
Mithrandir     In general, symbolic links within a top-level directory should be10:28
Mithrandir     relative, and symbolic links pointing from one top-level directory10:28
Mithrandir     into another should be absolute.  (A top-level directory is a10:28
Mithrandir     sub-directory of the root directory `/'.)10:28
sivangpitti: it's in perl last time I checked :)10:29
sivang*Was10:29
pittisivang: I just wanted to discuss a proposal from Nafallo, but I mixed that up with HUB as it seems10:29
dokopitti: looks like we do have lot of printing fun with cups 1.2 ...10:30
sivangpitti: proposal about backups?10:30
pittidoko: oh, many new bug reports?10:30
pittidoko: I didn't yet find time to read bugs today10:30
dokopitti: please do, looks like network printing doesn't work anymore, and some config files are lost across upgrades10:31
dokoI'm wading through the list for problems with specific printers10:31
pittiyes, of course I will deal with them, I just need to catch up with some security updates10:32
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j^System->Printers | Right Click -> Properties => hangs, is a good one10:33
Treenaksj^: doesn't hang10:33
Treenaksj^: just takes ages10:33
Treenaks(at least, for me, using a JetDirect printer)10:34
j^Treenaks hang as in gui not responding, no repaint10:34
j^possible that it works after more than 2 minutes... 10:34
TheMusoMithrandir: I ask because it was pointed out to me that one of the accessibility profiles wasn't working due to the way gnopernicus communicates with festival. Festival has an access list, and is set up to allow connections from the various forms of localhost, such as localhost.localdomain, 127.0.0.1, and localhost. However, it doesn't seem to like all these forms of localhost, as well as the ubuntu hostname all on one line in /etc/hosts. In ord10:34
Treenaksj^: yes. but that's only for a minute or so, then it starts responding again, and the properties window appears10:34
j^Treenaks still a bug10:34
Treenaksj^: true10:34
MithrandirTheMuso: ".. in ord" ?10:35
TheMusoAnd the problem with modifying its config, is that it would need to possibly be fixed up again once installed.10:35
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TheMusoIn order to work properly, festival needs the first line of /etc/hosts to be all the localhost variants, with the second line with the ubuntu hostname. Is this feesable? I currently don't know how else to fix this, other than patching/modifying festival's config on live CD boot, baring in mind it may need to be changed again once Festival is installed.10:37
infinityTheMuso: Are you sure of this?  That seems broken to me.10:38
TheMusoinfinity: What seems broken?10:38
Treenakssounds like a bug in festival10:38
infinityTheMuso: That festival refuses to allow you to have anything else on line 1 of /etc/hosts.10:39
neuralisTheMuso: why does festival care? it shouldn't be parsing /etc/hosts.10:39
TheMusoneuralis: Festival runs as a server, and uses a TCP port for communication, so it has an access list to allow/deny connections to it.10:39
infinityTheMuso: I originally patched festival to allow access from localhost (and variants), but it shouldn't care if you ALSO have other things there...10:39
=== infinity ponders.
TheMusoinfinity: I know. But on the live CD at least, it doesn't seem to work.10:39
infinityTheMuso: Do you have a livecd booted?10:40
neuralisthemuso: so? it should be using gethostbyname, which works fine with multiple entries in the first line.10:40
TheMusoIndeed I do.10:40
TheMusoI have modified /etc/hosts however.10:40
infinityTheMuso: What does "host 127.0.0.1" return?10:40
infinityOh.10:40
TheMusoI'll reboot.10:40
infinityWell, unmodify it. :)10:40
TheMusoHold on.10:40
Mithrandirhost localhost => "localhost has address 127.0.0.1"10:42
Mithrandirhost 127.0.0.1 => "1.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer localhost."10:42
infinityMithrandir: and the inverse?10:43
infinityKay, then there's no reason festival should screw up on that, unless it's doing something very dumb.10:43
TheMusoinfinity: Almost finished booting. I will run the gnome-speech festival driver in a terminal, and I will tell you what it says.10:43
infinityNote that this variable holds a regular expression which is matched10:44
infinityagainst whatever the client's IP address resolves to (or the address10:44
infinityitself, if address-to-name resolution fails). For local connections,10:44
infinitythat is the first name in the '127.0.0.1' line of /etc/hosts; it may or10:44
infinitymay not be 'localhost'.10:44
infinity(docs on server_access_list in festival)10:44
TheMusoYeah I saw that.10:44
infinityWhich sounds like it's just using a standard libc reverse lookup.10:44
TheMusoNote that this live CD I am using is not the latest daily.10:44
Mithrandircan't we just unset that and make it just listen to localhost?10:45
infinityMithrandir: As in, make it allow from "any", but only bind to "lo"?10:46
TheMusoThe festival server says: Rejected from ubuntu not in access list10:46
Mithrandirinfinity: yes10:46
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TheMusoThat is when running festival-synthesis-driver in a terminal, and then running gnopernicus from the run dialog.10:46
infinityMithrandir: If you want to fix it to work that way, go nuts.  I just took the path of least resistance when this bug came accross my desk, and it Worked For Me.10:46
infinityTheMuso: And the output of "host 127.0.0.1"?10:46
TheMuso1.0.0.1271.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer localhost.10:47
MithrandirI'm wondering if it's "localhost" vs "localhost."10:48
infinityWell, it is, specifically, claiming to be getting a connection from "ubuntu"...10:49
infinityWhich is just plain wrong, no matter how you slice it.10:49
Mithrandirfirst name on the 127.1 line in /etc/hosts _is_ ubuntu, though10:49
infinityErr, it is?10:49
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infinityIt should be the LAST name.10:50
TheMusoYeah it is.10:50
infinityIt is on the installed system.10:50
Mithrandiractually, for the installed system it seems to be 127.0.0.1       localhost10:50
Mithrandir127.0.1.1       ravel.hpc2n.umu.se.hpc2n.umu.se ravel.hpc2n.umu.se10:50
Mithrandir(this machine was installed with flight-5, iirc)10:51
infinityOh, cool.  We switched to the "use another loopback address" method.10:51
infinityI do prefer that one.  Much cleaner.10:51
infinityWe could do that on the livecd as well, and I wouldn't complain.10:51
infinityRFCs do seem to claim that 127.0.0.1 should only ever resolve to "localhost" afterall, though no one ever seems to follow that.10:51
MithrandirI would just like to not change this every second month.10:52
infinityI say "do what d-i does".10:52
Mithrandircat > /root/etc/hosts <<EOF10:53
Mithrandir127.0.0.1 localhost10:53
Mithrandir127.0.1.1 ubuntu10:53
Mithrandir(etc)10:53
Mithrandirhappy?10:53
infinityThat looks lovely.10:53
infinityAnd should make festival happier.10:53
TheMusoThanks guys. Much appreciated.10:53
infinityAnd some RFC nuts.10:53
infinity(The same RFC nuts we upset by using "localhost.localdomain" for a while)10:54
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infinityThankfully, we killed that one.10:54
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janimopitti, hi10:54
pittihi janimo 10:54
janimoindeed as I learned lately minicmd is obsoleted10:55
janimoso no need for it in main10:55
pittiok, cool10:55
janimosorry, should have removed it from the wiki10:55
MithrandirTheMuso: committed, pushed10:55
TheMusoMithrandir: Thanks.10:55
pittijanimo: I moved it to the obsolete queue, thanks10:55
Mithrandirjanimo: hiya, why do you manage /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf with the alternatives system?10:56
pittijanimo: ah, the xubuntu i386 live just finished downloading - I wanna see it myself, I'm curious :)10:56
janimopitti, cool :)10:57
janimoit does not autologin10:57
janimouser ubuntu, no password10:57
janimoa bug we have to figure out10:57
janimoMithrandir: yep10:57
janimoit works in the installed system10:58
nomedjanimo: see Mithrandir :)10:58
pittiRiddell: hm, do you still want both wlassistant and knetworkmanager in main?10:58
janimoalso on the liveCD the theme is taken from that file10:58
Mithrandirjanimo: "yep" is not a very good answer to a "why" question. :-P10:58
janimoMithrandir: oh ._why_ do we manage that with it10:58
janimojust read it again ;)10:58
janimowell that's how we did it at the beginning whe edubuntu did it too10:58
Mithrandirjanimo: I know why it doesn't work on the live cd, but I want to know the reason for you doing it that way before I go about fixing it.10:59
janimois that no longer te case for edunbntu10:59
Mithrandirno idea, ogra_ibook hasn't graced me with an answer yet.10:59
janimoboth edu and xubuntu provide that file10:59
janimoand any other derivative couldin the future to override gdm.conf10:59
janimoif you have ant cleaner method I am fine with it10:59
Mithrandir"conflicts"? :-)11:00
MithrandirI somehow doubt edubuntu uses alternatives for it since the live cd works for them.11:00
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joelbryanhi, is there a wiki page about supported files like zip, rar, mpg, avi, wmv, etc??11:02
joelbryanin fresh dapper install?11:03
nomedit seems edubuntu installs it in etc/gdm 11:03
janimoMithrandir: I'll have to check edubuntu out then11:04
KamionLathiat: to correct Burgundavia slightly, while we do use partman for some things, we don't use it for resizing (gparted/qtparted, depending on your frontend, is responsible for that)11:04
KamionLathiat: happily, gparted supports calling out to ntfsresize11:04
janimoMithrandir, hmm Conflicts could do, if we think there will be no other packages providing that11:05
mvoKinnison: the current unstable g-p-m has a dbus command to stop it from going to inactive sleep  (for the use-cache see #40697). do you think it's worth backporting it?11:05
janimonomed, edubuntu uses no alternative then?11:05
Mithrandirjanimo: if provide a virtual package, say, gdm-custom-config and provide/conflict/replace it.11:05
nomedi guess i got what's the problem11:05
Mithrandirjanimo: get edubuntu-artwork or whatever to do the same.11:05
janimoMithrandir: ok sounds cleaner11:05
nomedit the test -f stuff true ?11:06
mvoKamion: what can we do about #40829? IIRC the language-chooser in d-i had a similar problem in the past11:06
mvobug 4082911:06
UbugtuMalone bug 40829 in language-selector "kurds are not turk" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4082911:06
nomedjanimo: edubuntu doesn't use alternatives ...11:06
Mithrandirnomed: I know why it happens, that's not a problem.11:06
janimoMithrandir: btw what is the problem?11:06
janimonomed, that is sneaky, ogra did not tell me he dropped alternatives :)11:06
Mithrandirjanimo: -f follows symlinks, you have an absolute symlink where you should have had a relative one.11:07
Mithrandirjanimo: since the -f call is not chrooted.11:07
KamionRiddell: please fix your ubiquity working copy and dpkg-source flags as I asked yesterday, or else let me do ubiquity uploads; the spurious diffs are getting annoying11:08
KamionRiddell: also if you'd let me review that change first I could have had an opportunity to fix its error checking11:08
janimoMithrandir: thanks. I couldn't have figured that out11:08
janimobut I'll drop alternatives then, and talk to ogra to use conflicts11:08
KamionRiddell: and your bzr committer ids have gone back to "Ubuntu LiveCD user <ubuntu@ubuntu>"11:09
Kamionmvo: dunno, it's ku_TR, but d-i's localechooser just refers to it as Kurdish or Kurd11:11
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Mithrandirjanimo: 'k, care to close 40767 when you've done that?11:13
janimoMithrandir: sure11:14
kagoui need help to create a patch for apache2-common. Is there anyone who have time to help me ?!11:15
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janimoMithrandir: out of curiosity does using squashfs vs having the image non-compressed require more RAM at runtime?11:16
Mithrandirjanimo: I'd think not, at least not much, why?11:16
Mithrandirjanimo: it makes pulling the image off the cd much quicker, at least11:16
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janimojust curious, I was wondering if xubuntu live would need less ram if it was not compressed11:17
janimosince the live is under 400M11:17
Mithrandirjanimo: your usplash progress bar seems broken, at least on the live cd?11:20
janimoMithrandir: no idea why. It may be the usplash I uploaded yesterday11:22
janimois the beta live CD usplash you're seeing?11:22
janimoor latest11:22
Mithrandirno, current from this morning11:22
janimoworks here on an installed system11:23
janimoand how is it broken?11:23
Mithrandirit never progresses.11:23
janimothe only things I saw broken was when usplash stops and only text scorlls11:23
Mithrandirstays all dark blue.11:23
janimoah, I never saw that11:23
infinityGot the index wrong?11:23
janimocouldbe that yesterdays usplash (uses new colours) ingterferes with it11:24
janimoI'll check it out too11:24
nomedjanimo: did that guy send the palette too ?11:24
janimonomed, hmm he pointed me to the usplash image on the wiki11:24
janimonothing more.11:24
nomedjanimo: i check if i can easly extract the palette with gimp11:25
janimonomed: thanks11:25
nomedif not it means there is something wrong11:25
nomedlink ?11:25
nomedjanimo: then ...11:28
nomedcould you take a look on xfce-mcs-manager ?11:28
nomedthe panel .. it's driving me crazy11:28
nomedi removed all the icons it's using11:28
nomedand they are still there :/11:28
nomedi guess we should make it themeable11:29
nomedas the icons are almost ready (it seems)11:29
janimonomed: ->xubuntu11:32
dholbachKamion: I'd like to get tkklasse-{doc,server,client} (and their binary packages, which have the same names) removed from the archive - shall I file a bug for that and subscribe ubuntu-archive? is that ok for you?11:32
nomedjanimo: dhooo11:33
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nomedjanimo: he just resized the original image .. 11:34
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nomedthe circle it's not a circle anymore ..11:34
janimonomed -> #xubuntu :)11:35
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MithrandirTheMuso: I'm planning an casper upload soonish so if you have fixes for me, tell me.11:45
dokojanimo: openoffice.org-gtk is in the archive11:50
dokoinfinity, Keybuk, Kamion: please process the NEW libglib-java binary, so cairo-java can build11:51
janimodoko, already in the xubuntu seed ;)11:54
janimothanks11:54
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TheMusoMithrandir: Ok. I may be longer here than I first thought. Just gtting my head around some interesting parts of gconf. :)11:55
TheMusoAnd having to adjust some of the file to suit.11:55
TheMusoAnd I still need to test my changes.11:56
MithrandirTheMuso: was that "I think I have a fix in two hours" or was it "don't wait for me, I'll catch the next upload"?11:58
infinitydoko: main or universe?11:58
TheMusoThat was a don't wait.11:58
Kamiondholbach: yes11:59
Kamiondholbach: (give a reason in the bug report, obviously)11:59
Kamiondoko: hadn't got round to NEW processing this morning11:59
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infinityRight, source is in universe, the binaries are going there too.12:00
dokoinfinity, Kamion: universe. yeah, I like the "get a series of depending packages through NEW" game ;-)12:00
dholbachKamion: ok, merci.12:00
Kamiondoko: please fix its /usr/share/doc/ directory12:00
infinityKamion: I'm on it.12:00
Kamiondrwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2006-04-23 21:39:21 ./usr/share/doc/glib-java-0.2.4/12:00
Kamioninfinity: ok12:00
infinityOr, I'm not, if you're already reading it. :)12:00
Kamioninfinity: no, go ahead12:00
Kamiondoko needs to fix the above, but it can be processed first if he promises to do it :)12:00
=== infinity laughs.
dokoKamion: promised ;-)12:01
=== infinity tosses it in universe.
infinityAnd now to accept it with 59 seconds to go before the publisher run.12:02
infinitydoko: There you go.12:02
Kamionpublisher run is at :03 ...12:02
infinityYes, and it was :02:01 when I typed that. :)12:03
Kamionoh, heh, my IRC client said 11:01 so I guess one of us is a bit off12:03
Dizietinfinity: m-f-l-all build-dep> Damn, I see I edited control.template but didn't regenerate control.12:05
janimodholbach: is you or seb the one who's more likely to look at bug #4012212:05
janimo?12:05
UbugtuMalone bug 40122 in goffice "Patch: build 2 libgoffice variants (gnome and gtk)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4012212:05
Dizietinfinity: Thanks for cleaning it up for me.12:06
dholbachjanimo: I set it on my (growing) TODO list. :)12:06
janimodholbach: thanks :)12:07
_ion  * Brown paper bag fix: add a missing semicolon in the build-udebs rule.12:09
_ionWhat's the meaning of the phrase "brown paper bag"?12:09
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Mithrandir_ion: it's a bug which makes you want to put a brown paper bag over your head, or disappear12:10
pitti_ion: a bug one is ashamed of12:10
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jonohi all12:10
_ionHehe, ok.12:10
jonowho looks after the artwork in ubuntu?12:10
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dholbachKamion: thanks for the UVF exception.12:12
dholbachjono: Which part of it do you mean?12:12
jonodholbach, I need the default wallpaper without the beta text so I can screenshot the official book12:13
jonocan someone mail me it?12:13
dholbachjono: what's your mail address?12:13
jonodholbach, jono AT jonobacon DOT org12:13
ograMithrandir, janimo, whats the problem ? 12:13
janimoogra, xubunt live does not autologin in gdm12:14
janimoI still used the alternatives method for gdm-conf12:14
ogradont you use the gdm-cdd.conf ? 12:14
janimoyes, but using upfdate-alternatives as it initially was12:15
janimoI see you changes edubuntu to directly copy it to etc/gdm12:15
janimonow I do that too12:15
ograchanged ? 12:15
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ograedubuntu never had the alternative 12:15
janimodid not edubuntu use alternatives for that?12:15
ogranot yet12:15
janimowell it does not have to at all12:16
ograthat was a quick and dirty addition short before a flight release iirc, i'd likle to have an alternative as we initially wanted12:16
janimoalternatives are bad as just seen on xubuntu live12:17
janimoTollef suggested we both add that file 12:17
Mithrandirjanimo: that's possible to work around.12:17
janimoand conflict on each other's package12:17
Mithrandirogra: why do you want to use alternatives?12:17
janimoMithrandir: you said I'd do conflict, alreday done that ;)12:18
janimoogra, I added this to xubuntu-deafult-settings  Provides: and Conflicts: on gdm-config-derivative12:18
ograMithrandir, i want to ship xubuntu as a low footprint alternative for ltsp atr some point12:18
ograso they cant conflict 12:19
Mithrandirhmm12:20
ograi'm happy about every other suggestion, but conflicts dont work, many people already use xubuntu on their edubuntu systems12:21
Mithrandirit's just the artwork, though.12:21
ograyes, we should teach gdm to accept a theme without having to replace the whole config :12:22
Mithrandirhmm, seb's not around.12:23
Mithrandirdholbach: around?12:23
janimoogra, jbailey had some plans of making the gdm.conf file use layered cfg files12:23
janimobut dunno what came out of that12:23
dholbachMithrandir: yes.12:23
janimothan you could just have a file in addition not instead of gdmconf12:24
janimoa lot nicer imho12:24
Mithrandirdholbach: what do you think of the idea of having gdm.conf-cdd just be an override, so anything not set in gdm.conf-cdd will get picked up from gdm.conf (and then fallback)?12:24
Mithrandiractually, some sort of /etc/gdm/gdm.conf.d where each is put on top of the previous one.12:25
janimoMithrandir: needs gdm hacaking12:25
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dholbachMithrandir: It sounds like a good idea to me, but if you don't mind I'd mail seb about his opinion before (as he wanted to do the gdm 2.14.2 update as well).12:25
Mithrandirdholbach: go ahead.12:25
dholbachMithrandir: He's more intimate with gdm than I am.12:26
Mithrandirjanimo: nope.  It needs a tool to merge gdm configurations.12:26
Mithrandir(which could be a generic tool, since the gdm.conf file format is an .ini file format.12:26
Mithrandir)12:26
janimohttp://mail.gnome.org/archives/gdm-list/2006-March/msg00019.html12:26
janimoah ok.12:26
ograMithrandir, thats eft material12:26
ograi already discussed the gdm stuff with seb12:27
dholbachIt sounds like that to me too.12:27
ogragdm-cdd.conf is an interim solution until gdm is capable to handle that batter12:27
ogra*better12:27
Mithrandirhmm12:30
MithrandirI could probably whip up a tool to do this quite quickly.12:30
ograa wrapper ? 12:34
Mithrandirimport ConfigParser, sys12:36
Mithrandirf = open("/etc/gdm/factory-gdm.conf", "r")12:36
Mithrandirc.readfp(f)12:36
Mithrandirc.read(sys.argv[1:] )12:36
Mithrandirc.write(sys.stdout)12:36
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Mithrandircalled with /etc/gdm/gdm.conf /etc/gdm/conf.d/*.conf or something along that.12:36
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Mithrandirand then writing to /var/lib/gdm/gdm.conf which gdm gets taught to use if available.12:37
sivanghas anyone seen sladen?12:37
Riddellsivang: he's skipped the country, remind me to phone the hosts again in half an hour to the them to press the on switch12:38
mjg59Given a binary, is there any way to change the names of the symbols within it?12:38
sivangRiddell: sure :)12:38
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dholbachMithrandir: I included your proposal and sent it to Sb.12:41
Mithrandirdholbach: thanks.  He responds even though he's on vac?12:41
dholbachMithrandir: He looked at some bugs some minutes ago, so I daresay yes.12:41
Mithrandirdholbach: heh. :-)12:42
dholbachIf he doesn't stop triaging bugs on vac, I'll rent a car and visit his place to make sure he's doing proper vacation. :)12:42
Mithrandirjust take all his machines12:42
dholbachMithrandir: good thinking.12:43
ograhum, kmplayer in main ? doesnt that depend on mplayer ? 12:44
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Riddellyay!12:54
Riddellogra: no, it uses xine12:54
ograheh, why isnt it called kdexine then :)12:54
ogra(i just looked at the deps)12:55
Kamionhuh? kmplayer is in universe12:55
Riddellogra: mplayer backend was the first it had, but we don't build it12:56
RiddellKamion: it's just got main inclusion approval12:56
ograKamion, it just was approved12:56
Kamionah, I wish people would say that clearly12:56
Kamionrather than e.g. giving archive admins heartattacks12:56
Riddellogra: stop killing Kamion, we need him12:57
ograKamion, i trust pitti, didnt know you'd jump on it directly ... just was curious why it got approved12:57
pittiI was quite afraid of the name 'kmplayer' too :)12:57
pittibut it really just uses gstreamer and our main libxine12:57
Kamionogra: I didn't jump on it directly12:57
RiddellKamion: kde ubiquity has a broken include line in it, can I upload a fix?12:58
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KamionRiddell: no, please send me a diff, I have stuff pending12:58
Kamions/diff/branch/12:58
RiddellKamion: it's in my branch ready for merging12:58
Kamionand we need to slow down the uploads for a while12:58
Riddellyeah, I just want something I can recommend beta testers to upgrade to12:59
Kamionwell, I'd like to arrive there by something that's tested before upload ;-)12:59
Kamionand I want to sort out partitioning errors properly01:00
KamionRiddell: you don't do partman progress in the install progress bar yet, do you? (by my reading of kde-ui)01:00
RiddellKamion: I think I do01:01
Kamionbzr: ERROR: Revision {jriddell@ubuntu.com-20060424105053-22abf4d6794faebf} not present in 39/changelog-20051205083553-77a1825ffd84cf56.01:01
seb128Mithrandir: ping?01:02
Mithrandirseb128: pong01:03
KamionRiddell: I'm struggling to see where - neither confirm_partitioning_dialog nor error_dialog have any handling for it; can you point me to the code responsible.01:03
Kamion?01:04
seb128Mithrandir: dholbach pinged me about some gdm changes you want to do01:04
seb128Mithrandir: want to do that for dapper?01:04
Mithrandirseb128: it'd be nice, yes.01:04
seb128Mithrandir: you read the mail that jbailey sent upstream?01:04
Mithrandirseb128: yes, but I was pondering doing this without touching gdm code for dapper at least.01:04
KamionRiddell: (having to fetch your branch from scratch because bzr doesn't recover well from pull errors; will be a while)01:05
seb128you want to edit some conffiles, doesn't look a good idea to me01:05
janimomjg59: objcopy has some operations to change symbol names but not sure how flexible01:06
janimoeg --prefix-symbol01:06
HiddenWolfseb128: I'm experiencing a bug with your rhythmbox 0.9.4 package, should I file it?01:06
Mithrandirseb128: nope, I was thinkig teaching gdm to look for /var/lib/gdm/gdm.conf and use that if it exists.  That file will be created with a python script similar to:01:06
Mithrandirimport ConfigParser, sys01:06
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seb128Mithrandir: upstream gdm already does have user config overwritting system config, adding an another file between both should be easy01:06
Mithrandirf = open("/etc/gdm/factory-gdm.conf", "r")01:06
Mithrandirc.readfp(f)01:06
Mithrandirc.read(["/etc/gdm/gdm.conf", "/etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom", "/etc/gdm/conf.d/*"] )01:06
seb128HiddenWolf: upstream01:06
Mithrandirc.write(sys.stdout)01:06
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janimoMithrandir: for edu/xubuntu gdm is alreday passed --config 01:08
janimothat could be used01:08
seb128Mithrandir: why not teaching him than /usr/share/gdm/cdd.conf keys overwritte default settings by example?01:08
RiddellKamion: we have a progress bar after the autopartitioning page, but are you talking about the logic that delays the partitioning to the summary page?01:08
janimoseb128, gdm already does that for gdm.custom right?01:08
Mithrandirseb128: because it'd be nicest for casper if I could just drop my settings in a file which I knew would be read last and thereby not having to do the hacks I do.01:08
KamionRiddell: the latter, yes01:08
seb128upstream atm uses /usr/share/gdm/default.conf for default value (that we still move to /etc/gdm/gdm.conf to avoid breaking upgrades atm) and overwritte with user config which is /etc/default/gdm.custom-conf01:09
RiddellKamion: yeah, I've not done that yet, thanks for the pointers to the relevant places01:09
Mithrandirseb128: as a nice bonus, we would be able to remove distro defaults from /etc/gdm completely.01:09
seb128Mithrandir: that's what the custom conf is, not a complete definition but just some key to overwritte01:10
RiddellKamion: when you have a moment could you promote kmplayer source and kmplayer-base & kmplayer-konq-plugins binary packages to main?01:10
seb128Mithrandir: upstream move distro default to /usr/share/gdm01:10
Mithrandirseb128: but we don't?01:10
seb128Mithrandir: we still use /etc because I don't know what to do with modifed configs used atm01:10
seb128no01:10
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seb128gdmsetup used to edt /etc/gdm/gconf.conf directly01:10
Mithrandirmove it to -custom if it's modified?01:11
seb128before they creates a new custom-conf to edit and move the distro config to /usr01:11
Mithrandirmm01:11
seb128the issue is that people using dapper already have a -custom written by gdmsetup01:11
seb128that's why we want to have the list01:11
Mithrandirok01:11
KamionRiddell: I'll do a batch of main promotion later today01:12
seb128/usr/share/gdm/default.conf, then /etc/gdm/gdm.cong (which may have previous user config), then /etc/gdm/gdm.custom-conf01:12
KamionI like to do these things in batches rather than one-at-a-time01:12
seb128we could put a gdm.cdd-conf somewhere to the list01:12
seb128janimo: right, that's what gdmsetup edits atm01:12
mvoRiddell: there seems to be some problems during a upgrade from breezy->dapper. I have a person claming that his kontact adressbook was purged after the upgrade. should I file a bug about it? (the original mail is in german)01:12
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Mithrandirseb128: I'd like to be able to just drop a gdm.conf fragment in a directory.01:12
Riddellmvo: yeah please01:13
Riddellmvo: although a local kontact address book would be in ~/.kde so it can't be purged01:14
mvoRiddell: yeah, that is what I thought, I'll ask for clarification 01:14
seb128Mithrandir: that's what we planned with jbailey01:14
seb128Mithrandir: we just need to extend the custom-conf logic to an extra cdd-conf or something01:14
Riddellmvo: although nothing stopping kontact from deleteing the address book if it was feeling evil01:14
Mithrandirseb128: if I get you the patch today, is there a chance of having it dapperable?01:15
seb128Mithrandir: I would really like to be able to move /etc/gdm/gdm.conf to /usr for dapper and having a custom cdd conf yep, that would make things much easier for upgrades by example01:16
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darkmattermornin' all01:20
darkmatterdapper has a bit of a problem after the lates pango updates01:21
darkmatterfonts in gtk+ 2x are broken01:21
darkmatterits fine if you don't try to change them... but if you do they revert to sans01:22
Mithrandirseb128: do you think upstream would scream if I reversed the direction the files are read in too?  Reading backwards seems slightly wrong.01:23
darkmatterthe only fonts that even display a preview are sans, serif and monospace01:23
Riddellpitti: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/67858101:24
Riddell(not sure if I've already pointed that out to you)01:24
pittiRiddell: oh, no, you didn't01:24
pittiRiddell: feel free to fix (s/rm/rm -rf should do), otherwise I'll do it when I find some time01:25
seb128Mithrandir: I think that should be fine. Did you read upstream reply to jbailey with all the details on how to do what we want? http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gdm-list/2006-March/msg00022.html01:25
Mithrandirseb128: yes.01:25
pittiRiddell: oh, rather, rmdir || true01:25
Mithrandirseb128: it's insane to have a 2.5kLOC C file to read a configuration though, but I guess I'll have to make do with that. :-)01:25
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seb128Mithrandir: yeah, you have, we are not going to change that :p01:26
dokoRiddell, pitti: no it should be rm -rf, the package creates these files on installation01:28
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Riddelldoko: and if the user decides to put something else in there?  that'll killan changes01:29
Riddellkill any01:29
dokoRiddell: doesn't cups copy the configured ppd anyway?01:30
pittidoko: it does01:30
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dokodarkmatter: works fine for me.01:32
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KamionRiddell: KDE convention is to have the OK button on the left, isn't it?01:39
KamionI'm writing a sort-of-generic question_dialog helper for kde-ui to match one I wrote for gtkui, just checking on button ordering01:39
RiddellKamion: yes, but using QMessageBox.question() is the better way to do it01:42
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KamionRiddell: I am using QMessageBox.question01:42
Riddellah, cool01:42
KamionRiddell: but it needs to be called from components so I need a shim, and the argument ordering for that shim obviously needs to be one way or the other01:42
Kamionthanks01:43
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janimoGloubiboulga: did you talk lateky with the xkb plugin dev?01:58
janimolately01:58
Gloubiboulgajanimo, nop, but I've played with the xklavier lib, we definitely can do something :)01:58
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jcolehow does ubuntu/debian find the latest versions of packages? it it done manually by word of mouth or via automation? i found this, but i don't think it could be useful with all the missing packages and broken watches -> http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/no_watch.html01:58
janimoGloubiboulga: excellent :)01:59
jcolealso on dw (since they do somekind of automated version tracking), i noticed that some dapper packages are "up to date" while some are behind the "latest" stable and development versions -> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ubuntu01:59
Gloubiboulgajanimo, I'll try to have something that works this week01:59
jcolegot curious because some guy on slashdot was complaining about gnucash being "behind" in dapper01:59
azeemjcole: note that there was an upstream version freeze several months ago02:00
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jcoleazeem: ok02:03
jcoleazeem: how are versions of packages chosen?02:03
azeemjcole: this depends on a couple of things, like what version is in Debian, whether that package is in main or universe etc.02:04
Kamionsometimes by watching release notices, sometimes by whatever happens to be in Debian, sometimes by other automation, and all of that modified by what we know about a package (sometimes the latest version isn't the best for one reason or another)02:04
azeemit seems dapper ships gnucash-1.8.12, which is the latest stable release02:04
jcoleKamion: is a "release notice" automated? or is it manual via word of mouth (from chatting, the net, email, etc.)?02:09
azeemjcole: there is a semi-automatic watch system implemented in Debian which scans for new upstream releases at the expected location.  Google for watch files and dehs02:10
jcoleazeem: i posted this link earlier -> http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/no_upstream.html02:10
azeemright02:10
Kamionjcole: many projects send out mails to announcement lists02:10
Kamionjcole: for the packages we care about, the people responsible generally watch those announcement lists02:11
jcoleazeem: but it can't be very useful since there are thousands of packages with no or broken watches02:11
Kamionjcole: for the packages we don't care about, we generally defer to Debian, in which cases the Debian maintainer generally watches those announcement lists02:11
azeemjcole: it's useful for those packages with a good watch file at least02:11
Kamionjcole: updating packages is not automatic anyway - it needs a developer who knows about the packages to do the job - so it's usually not a big deal that finding out about the new upstream release isn't automatic either02:12
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jcoleKamion azeem: thanks for the info02:15
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dokoKamion: cairo-java_1.0.3-0ubuntu2 did have the same docdir problem as glib-java, fixed in cairo-java_1.0.3-0ubuntu302:22
coz_Ok I will pastebin this here now and later Please read this - http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/paYKVE51.html02:22
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zakamehi all02:31
zakameelmo: ping02:31
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Riddellpitti: cups 1.2 rc2 plus mh21's patches seem to work well for me02:42
pittiRiddell: great!02:42
RiddellI'll show the patches to the kdeprint maintainer, who will probably find plenty wrong with them, but we should be good for dapper02:43
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zulheylo02:50
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Riddellpitti: I had reports of an error when trying to print saying "Error from CUPS: ok-successful"02:58
Riddellpitti: my e-mail archive is broken so I can't get the exact error but does that sound like anything you recognise?02:59
pittiRiddell: no, that doesn't tell me anything; the 'Error from CUPS:' is a KDE string or a libcups one?02:59
pittiRiddell: it looks like a bogus error message02:59
Riddellthat'll be a KDE string, the "ok-successful" will be from cups03:00
pittiright, ok-successful is libcups03:00
pittinot sure, maybe the string changed in 1.203:00
RiddellI've not seen the error myself, it was from people testing your packages on people.u.c03:00
pittidoes that actually break anything?03:00
Riddellno, didn't seem to03:00
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zakamehmm, whyare my uploadsstill aren't showing up? :(03:08
Kamionzakame: can you give me a package name to look up?03:08
j^can someone look at bug #40214, i extraced 2 changes from upstream cvs03:08
UbugtuMalone bug 40214 in binutils "ld checks for libs in wrong order. it should be inline with ld.so and check configured folders first." [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4021403:08
zakameKamion: gnome-ppp for one, touched fo DhIconCacheChanges03:09
Kamion15:15:06 DEBUG   Could not find a person for <zakame@ubuntu.com (Zak B. Elep)> or that person has no preferred email address set in launchpad03:09
Kamionzakame: you need to set a preferred e-mail address in Launchpad03:09
zakamenow that's strange, I've had that set for a while, it hasn't bothered my previous uploads until this...03:10
zakameI'll update anyway, just to besure03:11
Kamioneither that or its e-mail address parsing wants "Zak B. Elep <zakame@ubuntu.com>" rather than "zakame@ubuntu.com (Zak B. Elep)" maybe?03:11
ograwasnt there a problem with dots in the names ? iirc crimsun had a simillar probllem once03:13
ogra-l03:13
zakamehmmm03:13
zakamejust defaulted to my other address, and uploaded a fix for arson03:14
Kamionif so, file an LP bug, /products/qprocd03:14
zakameok, thanks! =)03:15
ograKamion, iirc that predates LP and was a gpg problem ...03:15
ograbut crimsun will know ...03:15
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janimoMithrandir: so how should gdm-cdd.conf be provided after all?03:23
Riddellpitti: do you have mh21's e-mail address?03:23
mvodoko: ping03:25
dokomvo: pong03:25
ograjanimo, lets wait what of the changes they can get into dapper03:26
ograi'm sure Mithrandir will ping us :)03:26
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janimoogra, btw how did edubuntu users who used xfce cope with this gdm.conf issue?03:29
ogranot at all03:29
ograthey dont need to for ltsp ;) we dont use gdm03:29
ograand ldm just picks the default system XSession03:30
janimooh so you said you prefer not to conflict for the other settings in that package not gdm then?03:30
ograyep03:30
janimoI see03:30
ograbecause it indeed breaks if you use a workstation variant with multiple users 03:31
janimotrue03:31
ogra(where one ises gnome and the other xfce)03:31
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Diziet(gs-esp upstream)++03:32
Mithrandirjanimo: either works for me, really.03:32
ograeverything that doesnt make the packages conflict works for me either ...03:33
zakamehi jsgotangco 03:33
jsgotangcoyo!03:33
janimoMithrandir: so should I go back to alternatives if ogra needs that?03:33
jsgotangcolol blatant-and-awkward now has an emblem03:33
ogra(i'm fine with an alternative, but if there are chances fro a cleaner solution, i prefer to wait for Mithrandir )03:33
janimoin that case is the fix entirely in casper or did I install the symlink badly too?03:34
zakamehuh?03:34
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jsgotangcoborked build?03:35
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Mithrandirjanimo: either, really.03:35
janimook03:35
ograjanimo, just tell me if i need to change anything in edubuntu-artwork 03:36
Lureogra: kmplayer is not just frontend for mplayer and it does not depend on mplayer03:37
ograLure, i know 03:37
ograbut most of the users wont03:37
ograits an odd naming imho03:37
Lureogra: kmplayer is needed in main to replace embedded video ofr konqueror (kaffiene crashes)03:38
ograLure, sure 03:38
ograbut it shouldnt be named like that :)03:38
Kamionyou can always think of it as "KDE Media Player"03:38
ograkmaplyer-xine would be more appropriate for example03:38
Lureogra: persuade authors to rename - it would be even more strange if ubuntu would ship it with different name03:39
Riddellrenaming it is on the author's todo list03:39
ograah, cool :)=03:39
janimoogra, look in xubuntu-default-settings 0.8 or wait till 0.1003:39
janimoand there are preint/postrm hooks 03:40
ograjanimo, will do, thanks03:40
Riddellmdke: you send me an e-mail the other day but my e-mail archives are broken, can you resend to jriddell@ubuntu.com03:40
KamionDiziet: what did they do?03:40
sivangRiddell: has muse been brought up?03:41
DizietKamion: I reported a bug to them - a strange and complex thing in the bowels of the colour deskjet driver - and this morning there's an email saying what the code should have done and a sufficient reference to their already-committed fix.03:44
Amaranthogra: would you be mentoring "Gnome Squid proxy configuration utility" for the google soc?03:46
ogranope03:46
KaiL_does heise.de now really need to feed their trolls with a message about a bug in dapper BETA? *grr*03:46
ograsince i want to push willow03:46
ograi'm a big squid hater03:46
Amaranthheh03:46
Amaranthit's the only thing in the (small) list of ideas that looks fun03:47
ogra(and i dont want it included at all if we can get willow DTRT)03:47
Amaranthunless i want to work on KDE :)03:47
KamionKaiL_: how helpful03:47
KamionKaiL_: it's a bad bug, but we don't want to withdraw the beta just for that03:48
ograAmaranth, http://www.digitallumber.com/software/willow/03:48
ograAmaranth, i'd happily mentor any project around that ;)03:48
KaiL_Kamion, that's why it is called BETA, or? Because it can have bugs03:48
KamionI'll probably put a note on the releases.u.c website about it at some point03:48
ogra(it needs a code review to get rid of python-profiler to get into main)03:48
Amaranthdunno if plugging in a completely new proxy system and writing a configuration GUI for it would be a summer kind of thing03:48
KamionKaiL_: well, "eats partition tables" is hardly ideal :-/03:48
ograAmaranth, it *has* a gui03:48
Amaranthogra: ooh, shiny03:48
Amaranthogra: what would it need that could be made into a SoC project?03:49
KaiL_I wonder, why heise.de thinks, this is worth a message - somebody COULD think, their trolls are getting hungry ;)03:49
ogra(a webdriven one, but writing a gtk frontend is trivial)03:49
ograAmaranth, as i said, it must drop the profiler dependency 03:49
Mithrandirfreeflying: around?03:50
Amaranthogra: that's it?03:50
ograand someone should write the actual gtk gui03:50
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freeflyingMithrandir: hi03:50
Amaranthogra: it's written in python and needs some code cleanup and a pygtk gui?03:50
Amaranthi could do that :)03:50
ograAmaranth, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/willowgui/ btw ;)03:50
ograi already started, but its not much beyond the glade state yet03:50
Mithrandirfreeflying: I'm looking at 40182 and it's a bit clearer what you're trying to do now.  However, I wonder where XMODIFIERS is usually set (in a normal, installed system)?03:50
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Amaranthogra: GtkFileChooserButton == evil03:51
ograAmaranth, its been a first step03:51
Amaranthogra: i got tons of complaints when i tried using that in alacarte, some people like typing in paths03:51
Amaranthogra: yeah03:51
Amaranthogra: I might have to see if I can get accepted to work on this. :)03:52
ografeel free to drop and rewrite ... its just to give an impression how it could look like03:52
freeflyingMithrandir:  in installcd , they were set up by im-switch , it is in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90im-switch03:52
Riddellllsivang: no03:52
sivangRiddellll: okay. 03:52
Mithrandirfreeflying: isn't /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90im-switch there on your (remastered) live cd?03:52
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freeflyingMithrandir: it's in 03:53
KaiL_Kamion, maybe some "beta2" with that fixed and also the newest kernel might be an idea? ;)03:53
freeflyingMithrandir: but now I'd source it before I start kdm03:53
ograAmaranth, a "transparent mode" would also be required (i.e. a willow initscript that sets the necessary iptable rules based on /etc/default/willow or something)03:53
Mithrandirfreeflying: uh, you shouldn't need to do that.03:53
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Mithrandirfreeflying: anyway, it doesn't sound like a bug in casper at all; I would rather point at kdm (if you're using that) or kde-session (or whatever that's called)03:54
Amaranthogra: sounds doable, the only hard part would be choosing defaults03:54
ograyep03:54
freeflyingMithrandir: but it can do one month ago03:54
KamionKaiL_: I don't fancy losing another night's sleep and about three days of otherwise productive work, thanks03:54
Mithrandirfreeflying: what do you mean?03:54
HiddenWolfCan the espresso-installer be trusted to install a working system already?03:54
ograAmaranth, you dont need many defaults there ... it uses bayesian filtering and learns really quick03:55
Mithrandirfreeflying: it worked a month ago?  Well, I don't know what's changed in the KDE world.03:55
Amaranthogra: neat03:55
KaiL_HiddenWolf, if you don't have any data on the disk, which must survive ;)03:55
ograso we dont need to ship black/whitelists and leave that part to the user03:55
HiddenWolfKaiL_: was afraid of that.03:55
Kamioncurrent daily shouldn't have that problem03:55
ograit will still filter based on the bayesian filter03:55
janimois there going to be another flight before RC?03:55
freeflyingMithrandir: I've remastered kubuntu's livecd 3 months ago ? it can work before, just not work recently03:55
Kamionubiquity >= 0.99.6403:55
Kamionjanimo: yes03:55
Amaranthogra: ok, so "package willow and write gtk gui"03:56
HiddenWolfKamion: A friend of mine is installing linux for the first time to see if he can do something for Google SoC. I'd rather not have him start by whiping his disk. ;)03:56
Amaranthogra: the cleanup and defaults stuff is a part of making a good package03:56
ograAmaranth, yep03:56
pittiRiddell: mh21@piware.de03:56
Mithrandirfreeflying: ok.  Do you know which part of kubuntu is responsible for running /etc/X11/Xsession.d?03:57
Amaranthogra: willing to mentor that one? you seem to know a lot about it03:57
ograyep03:57
freeflyingMithrandir: no specially03:58
MithrandirRiddell: which part of kubuntu runs /etc/X11/Xsession.d?03:58
nomedjanimo: deadline for that pool ?03:59
mdkeRiddellll, sure04:00
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RiddellllMithrandir: kdm does04:01
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bddebianMorning Ubuntites04:01
RiddellllMithrandir: oh no, that'll be ksmserver04:01
bddebianmdz: Sorry about the ffmpgetheora thing, I thought it said assign it to ubuntu-archive, not subscribe :-(04:03
mdzbddebian: my document said subscribe; if there's something out there in the wiki or elsewhere saying assign, please feel free to correct it04:05
bddebianmdz: No, it says subscribe, I'm just on crack :'-(04:06
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MithrandirRiddell: thanks.04:08
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elmomvo: ping?04:17
mvoelmo: hello04:19
elmomvo: a bunch of us at the office have lost our update-notifier icons from the panel - was this intentional?  'cos I can't seem to find a way to add it back04:20
mvoelmo: is it sill in runing (in memory)? or complettely gone?04:21
elmomvo: mine is in memory at least04:23
elmoI sometimes get the new-style bubble popup saying "woo hoo, new updates", but it tells me to click on a non-existent icon for more info04:24
mvoelmo: what does /var/lib/update-notifier/apt-check return?04:24
mvoelmo: oh, that is interessting04:24
elmomvo: no such file or directory04:24
elmoyou mean /usr/ presumably04:25
elmowith /usr/ it "just works", returns 004:25
mvoelmo: hm, does apt-get/aptitude dist-upgrade show that there are upgrades?04:26
elmomvo: for cvd, it's just not even in memory04:26
elmobut cvd is way behind, whereas Iupdated last night04:27
elmomvo: yes, dselect shows upgrades04:27
mvoelmo: hrm, it is in /etc/xdg/autostart now, it should be started in the session04:27
mvoelmo: apt-get too? (I don't trust dselect ;)04:27
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elmopfft04:27
elmo25 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.04:28
elmo^-- apt-get dist-upgrade04:28
=== mvo digs into apt-check and why it does stupid things
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jonoKeybuk, ping04:29
Keybukjono: hey dude, 'sup?04:29
jonoKeybuk, all good, you?04:29
Keybukyeah pretty ok actually04:31
jonokent, can you do me a favour?04:31
jonoKeybuk, do you have access to planetplanet.org04:31
Keybukjono: no, you want jdub for that04:33
jonoKeybuk, no worries :)04:33
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Dizietmdke: Did you read the instructions at the bottom of DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation, which describe how to change the list ?04:39
Surakmdz: ping04:40
mdzSurak: yes?04:41
Surakmdz: the mythtv packages report you as the maintainer. I also noticed that there's no mythtv in debian. Do you actively maintain mythtv?04:41
mdzSurak: not anymore, no.  I believe Christian Marillat has started maintaining them going forward04:42
Surakmdz: the ubuntu packages are quite outdated in ubuntu. How can I request a sync from Marillat? Or must someone volunteer for maintaing it in ubuntu?04:44
ograSurak, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperRessources04:45
ograwhoops04:46
ograhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources04:46
jsgotangcolooks like MOTU work to mee04:46
Surakjsgotangco: indeed. But this is not a standard Debian package, it's maintained at http://debian.video.free.fr/ , which presents itself as "Unofficial Debian Packages". That's why I asked mdz for it.04:47
jonohmm banshee cover art is broken04:47
jsgotangcoahhh04:48
mdzSurak: jsgotangco is correct; syncs are still requested in the same way04:48
mdzit is possible that the marillat packages do not build cleanly on ubuntu yet, also04:48
mdkeDiziet, yes. Although understanding them is another matter04:52
Amaranthjono: works here, but some tracks in an album found cover art and some didn't04:52
jonoAmaranth, actually, yeah it seems to work, its just pretty inconsistant04:54
Amaranthyep04:54
Amaranthand there is no way to manually add cover art04:55
Amaranthperhaps this should be in #banshee on gimpnet04:55
Amaranththis discussion, i mean04:55
tsengjono: it uses musicbrainz vs straight amazon webservices due to legalish stuff04:56
tsengamazon doesnt let you ship a devkey04:56
tsengand the data in MB is hit or miss04:56
jonono worries04:57
Dizietmdke: The master list is only in ubuntu-docs source; it ships prepare-f-s-t (containing the list) into ubuntu-docs.deb, and all of the other packages use the list there by invoking p-f-s-t05:01
DizietThat's why you just need to rebuild, but not edit, the other packages.05:02
mdkeDiziet, fine, i understand that far05:02
Surakmdz: just for information, marillat's mythtv compiles cleanly on breezy when the mysql5's patch is removed. Ain't tried yet on dapper.05:02
raphinkhmm05:02
DizietAnd m-f-l-a has to go last so that no-one sees a `file not found'.05:02
mdkeyep05:03
raphinkI can't insert images in openoffice.org-impress05:03
raphink:(05:03
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=== tuxmaniac is away: Off for Dinner!
janimonomed, which poll?artwork?05:09
nomedjanimo: yes05:11
nomed join #xubuntu or ping highvoltage05:11
highvoltagenomed: i'm here05:11
janimonomed yeah, just talking with him05:11
janimonomed, the artwork poll is over as Jozsef Mak said05:12
highvoltagenomed: talking to janimo in PM05:12
janimoso we go with steel blue05:12
nomedohh perfect05:12
janimosince the poll on artwork forum showed people greatly prefer it to current or gray05:12
janimoI liked green too but that was not a candidate :)05:12
janimoanyway we finally have something consistent, I uploaded usplash and wallpaper for now05:13
nomedusplash has something really strange ...05:13
nomedit would be nice if some artist could check it ..05:13
ograit hasnt the final artwork yet05:14
ogra(afaik)05:14
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nomedogra do you mean usplash is not definitive ?05:20
bddebianShould I put an xml file in /usr/share/packages/ for mime types or is there a better way?05:22
janimonomed, probably ubuntu artwork is not final yet05:22
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nomedjanimo: ok05:23
nomedbut i'm refiring to xubuntu usplash05:23
janimoI know, indeed it looks weird with that red05:23
janimomaybe Jmak will know05:23
nomedthat has that red text while there is no red in the palette .. this is too strange for me :/05:24
Mithrandirmvo: in apt, what decides if apt wants to download a package if you have a package with the same version installed (but built locally)?05:25
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mvoMithrandir: I need to look it up 05:28
janimonomed, strage to me too, but I know nothing about usplash05:29
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=== ozamos0__ is now known as ozamosi__
infinityMithrandir: dpkg keeps the md5 of the package (dpkg -p <paqckage> | grep ^MD5).  If that doesn't match the MD5 in the available file, I believe that triggers an upgrade.05:37
Mithrandirinfinity: makes sense05:37
=== Kamion writes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperBeta/PartitionTableCorruption
Keybukinfinity: dpkg doesn't keep the md5 of the package05:38
KamionI think I'll link to that from releases.ubuntu.com05:38
MithrandirKamion: ouch.05:38
infinityKeybuk: Oh, is it just copying that straight from apt's merged availale info, then?05:39
infinityHrm.05:39
Keybukinfinity: nope05:40
Keybukno md5 in status05:40
infinityMithrandir: In that case, I have no ida.  Wait for mvo to read apt's code. :)05:40
Keybukquest scott% grep "^MD5" /var/lib/dpkg/status05:40
Keybukzsh: exit 1     grep "^MD5" /var/lib/dpkg/status05:40
infinityKeybuk: Er, yeah, but there are md5sums in dpkg/available, which could mismatch with apt's lists.05:41
=== bddebian pokes infinity
Keybukinfinity: no there aren't05:41
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KeybukAPT never touches /var/lib/dpkg/available05:41
infinityKeybuk: Err, yes there are.  (is you use dselect, perhaps?)05:42
infinityWhich I do.05:42
Keybukpossibly05:43
Keybukthey're not important05:43
Keybukthere's an MD5sum header in APT's own lists05:43
KeybukI don't think that's used for anything though05:43
infinityRight, and there is in dpkg/available on my system, which is merged from apt lists.05:43
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infinityAnyhow, I'll let mvo come back with the canonical "I read the code instead of speculating" answer to Mithrandir's question. :)05:44
KeybukI *think*05:44
KeybukAPT builds up a list of candidate versions05:44
Keybukwhich in theory would be the same as the installed version05:44
Keybukbut if any header is different, it downloads it again05:44
Keybuk(including, e.g. Installed-Size)05:45
mvoKamion: do you mind if I add "testdisk" to the "how-to-recover-your-partition" bit in your wiki-page? I had good results with it in the past 05:45
infinitybddebian: Pong, but I'm heading to bed to nurse my cold.05:45
mvoinfinity: given the interesst in the topic, I'll have a look now, but IIRC Keybuk is right in his analysis05:46
infinityThe "if any header has changed" analysis?  Sounds reasonable enough.05:47
bddebianinfinity: I don't need anything, I was just poking you for fun, sorry.  Get well! :-)05:47
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Keybukit's more fun when you have two candidates of the same version, and neither of them matches the one you're installed05:49
Keybukafaik, which one gets picked is random05:49
mvoKeybuk: apt does not cope well with identical versions but different pacakges05:49
infinity"Random" in apt almost always means "the first one it finds", so, the first one listed in the first Package file it parses.05:50
Kamionmvo: not at all05:53
Kamionmvo: (go ahead)05:53
BenCis evolution all the sudden crashing constantly for anyone else?05:54
dholbachBenC: What are you trying to do when it crashes?05:54
BenCread email05:54
BenCit's really whacked out05:54
ograBenC, try bug 4023605:55
UbugtuMalone bug 40236 in evolution "evolution crashes out of the blue and stays in a crasher loop" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4023605:55
dholbachyou click on a mail and it crashes? does it crash when you start it? or does it "simply" hang?05:55
BenCnope, not it05:55
BenCit just crashes randomly after about 10 seconds05:55
ogradeleting the folder i was in (-changes) solved it 05:55
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BenCif I start it up and don't touch it, it crashes05:55
ograyep, that was the symptom here as well05:55
BenCdoesn't matter which folder I am in05:55
ograoh, you can actually change the folder 05:56
dholbachBenC: can you install evolution-dbg and evolution-data-server-dbg and get a backtrace?05:56
ograit crashed faster for me05:56
BenCthe main symptom is that the folders with unread messages, start going "unbold" as if they have no unread messages, one-by-one, then it crtashes05:56
=== tuxmaniac is back (gone 00:47:09)
ogratuxmaniac, please turn off public away messages in here05:57
dholbachThat sounds really weird - it'd be nice if you could get a backtrace of that.05:57
BenCdholbach: doing that now05:57
dholbachBenC: thanks a lot05:57
pittiBenC: did you get my /msg from some hours back?05:57
BenCthis is a real serious problem for me, I'll do all that I can :)05:57
KamionRiddell: do you know how to find out from a PyQt signal handler what widget the signal was raised on?05:57
BenCpitti: didn't you get the replies to it?05:57
pittiBenC: no05:57
pittiBenC: maybe your nick wasn't registered at that time?05:58
BenCpitti: damnit, I wasn't idented to nickserv :/05:58
tuxmaniacogra: Sorry05:58
dholbachBenC: If I can't a duplicate of it, it'd be nice to get a log obtained by    CAMEL_DEBUG=all evolution > evo.log  as well05:58
RiddellKamion: there's a way to do it in c++ at least but it's not recommended to reply on it05:58
Riddellrely on it05:58
Kamionhow are you meant to distinguish widget from widget then? :)05:59
ogradholbach, or 2&>1 >evo.log to get stderr as well ? 05:59
KamionI'm just looking at a bug in the ubiquity-frontend-kde user-setup page which seems to be down to this05:59
ivoksKamion: syncing with debian is stoped?06:00
dholbachogra: the messages on stderr are not that important, but ok if you have them in as well06:00
ograi just noted :) 06:00
Kamionivoks: there's an LP bug that prevents us doing any syncs at the moment; cprov is looking at it as a matter of urgency06:00
ivoksKamion: ok, thanks for info06:00
infinityKamion: Oh, good, you filed that.  I was going to, but was too out of it to get to it.06:01
KamionRiddell: oh, should it just be connecting signals on different widgets to different methods?06:01
infinityKamion: bug#?06:01
Kamioninfinity: bug 4095806:01
UbugtuMalone bug 40958 in qprocd "all sync attempts fail" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4095806:01
infinityThanks.06:01
RiddellKamion: http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/qobject.html#sender06:01
RiddellKamion: but yes, the recommended way is just to use different slots for each widget06:02
=== jcole is now known as jcole_awy
KamionRiddell: ok, mind if I fix up your user-setup page while I'm in here? (I was really just trying to reproduce some partitioning problems, but ...)06:02
RiddellKamion: sure go ahead06:02
=== ogra watches Kamion turning into a QT programmer
Riddellthe tab order on that page is the most comical thing06:03
Riddellogra: I've already converted mvo :)06:03
ograhaha06:03
ograreally ? 06:03
KamionRiddell: I noticed the tab order, yes :)06:03
ograso next synaptic is in QT ?06:03
KamionRiddell: is that just widget order in the .ui file?06:04
Riddellwell, he did language-selector-qt06:04
mvoogra: yeah, its really nice 06:04
ograheh06:04
=== ogra waits for SMART then :)
mvoogra: I seriously considered writing a new frontend for it :)06:04
RiddellKamion: I think it is, but it's usually best to define tab order explicitly in qt designer06:04
ogramvo, smart or synaptic ? 06:05
mvoogra: smart06:05
Riddellwhich should take all of about seconds06:05
ogramvo, wont you change it anyway over time to fit into the package management tools ? 06:05
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mvoogra: smart? well, its just a different backend, most higher level tools (g-a-i, update-manager, language-selector) don't need a lot of api, I think switching is not very hard. and smart is similar to apt in some ways :)06:07
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ograyes, but it will need a synaptic replacement at some point 06:08
ogra(or synaptic needs adjustment too)06:08
mvoogra: smart --gui is pretty good already (but needs some more love)06:08
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ogramvo, btw, did you do anything with the g2ding stuff you grabbed from me ? 06:10
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mvoogra: I hacked a bit on it, but nothing serious (too little time) - and toyed a bit with the idea of pyification it :)06:11
ograhaha06:11
ogragreat06:11
Riddellg2ding?06:12
ograyep06:12
mvoRiddell: basicly a offline german<->english dictionary06:12
ograan old C program of mine to translate from german to english and a spellchecker 06:12
Riddellah, like leo06:12
ograhttp://www.grawert.net/python.png06:12
ograeek 06:12
ograwrong paste06:12
ograhttp://www.grawert.net/software/g2ding/06:13
=== janimo just had the nicest PNP linux experience to date. Plug in random webcam, see it in dmesg, go though ekiga wizard, see pretty pictures
=== Keybuk sets the "calling something PNP" goons onto janimo
janimoI plugged it in, and it plays. Do you mind the N ? ;)06:14
KeybukPNP is an extension to the ISA bus to allow device identification06:15
ograjanimo, lucky you, my usb webcam doent work 06:15
Keybukyour webcam is *almost certainly* not on the ISA bus :)06:15
ograbut thats BenC's fault, not Keybuk 06:15
jsgotangcoall my webcams dont work either06:15
janimoand PNP is not just an ISA/bios acronym. It's also marketing speak06:16
Keybukjanimo: this isn't 06:16
Keybukubuntu-marketing06:16
janimoand lately it's more likely the latter than the former06:16
Keybukthis is ubuntu-devel, we like to be precise here, otherwise those of us who have to fix it when "PNP doesn't work" don't know what the hell you're talking about06:16
janimoogra, I did not expect it to work either, I'll add it to the supported hw wikipage06:16
janimodoes anyone still use ISA around?06:17
Keybukyes06:17
Keybukeverybody with a PC06:17
janimoPNP?06:17
Keybukyes06:17
Keybukeverybody with a PC06:17
Keybukusually things like your floppy drive, PC speaker, real-time clock, AT keyboard, PS/2 mouse port, joystick port, IrDA, serial ports, etc.06:18
Keybukoh, parallel port too, obviously06:18
Keybukall those things are on the PNP bus in a modern PC06:18
Keybukdholbach: hmm, Ctrl+Shift-select isn't working in X-Chat today06:18
mjg59Well, it's not strictly isa06:18
mjg59But close enough06:18
janimoKeybuk please edit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-and-play06:19
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janimoaccording to your reality :)06:19
Keybukjanimo: Wikipedia in wrong shocker06:19
Keybukactually, the first paragraph of that seems to support my statements06:19
janimobut the rest of the article does not06:20
janimoand those peripherals while using ports not PCI style memory are still not ISA/PNP are they?06:20
bddebianBah, where's seb128 when I need him?06:20
Keybukand in English?06:20
janimobddebian: vacation  think06:21
bddebianNoooo :_)06:21
janimoKeybuk: I dont; think the PC speaker qualifies as a ISA PNP device06:21
Keybukit is06:21
Keybukjanimo: http://www.mit.edu/afs/sipb/contrib/doc/PnP/06:21
janimochecking06:21
Keybukjanimo: PC speaker has an ioport, etc. to be able to send output to it06:21
janimoso does everything with an ioport is ISA/PNP?06:22
Keybukno06:22
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janimoI thought the legacy devices had fixed port numbers06:22
Keybukusually that's true, yes06:23
janimoso what's plugging got to do with them?06:23
mjg59Keybuk: PNP is not just an extension of the ISA bus. 06:23
janimoisn;t it that they retrofitted thePNP spec to cover legacy?06:23
mjg59Varoius other technologies are described as PNP06:23
Keybuknothing, PnP is a specification for identifying connected devices06:23
mjg59Right, including serial06:24
Keybukmjg59: wrongly, imo06:24
mjg59Keybuk: Serial PNP is an MS spec06:24
Keybukyeah, that's ok06:25
Keybukit's when people descibe a USB webcam as "PnP" that irritates06:25
Keybukno, it's just USB!06:25
janimowell I would still describe my plugging in of a webcam and having it work as a PNP experience. Having a beep from the console I would not06:25
Keybuklikewise PCI06:25
Keybukdevice detection, identification and configuration is covered in the standard bus specs06:25
janimoI did not describe my webcam as pnp mind you. (it's not even mine FWIW). Just my experience06:25
mjg59Keybuk: PCI device ID is part of the bus spec, but its implementation in Windows is part of PNP06:25
Keybukmjg59: but it's implementation in Linux isn't :)06:26
bddebianIf I install package.xml in /usr/share/mime/packages/package.xml, I need to run update-mime-db in postinst??06:26
mjg59Keybuk: If we'd had unified device id supply back in 95, it probably would have been06:26
mjg59But, well06:26
Keybukclarity is always a bonus06:27
Keybuk"my USB webcam doesn't work" is better than "my PnP webcam doesn't work"06:27
Keybukbecause we'd probably assume the latter was some sick ISAPnP webcam plugged into parport or something06:28
tsenghah SGI indiecam06:28
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KeybukI bet there also exists some sick ISA-on-USB chips out there06:28
Keybukok06:30
Keybuksomething has *seriously* busted Copy and Paste on GNOME today06:30
janimoKeybuk, well there exist UART on USB06:30
Keybukjanimo: oddly enough, I was thinking of something similar06:30
KeybukI have a USB device to connect to my train set06:30
janimois you r train set PNP?06:30
Keybukit's an RS-485 (Lenz Xpressnet) to RS-232 converter, with a UART, etc. then wrapped in a USB serial converter06:31
janimoI was thinking of USB/rs232 dongles. probably similar06:31
Keybukyeah06:32
Keybukthey originally had just an RS-485-to-Serial converter06:32
Keybukand rather than make a proper USB device, they just took that and stuck a USB converter on the front of *that*06:32
janimoand I think many USB bluetooth chips are over UART/USB dongles too06:33
ivoksw06:33
janimothe ones that only implement the diall up profile06:33
bddebianFolks, I apologize for being a PITA, but can anyone help me with this damn mime file so I can close this bug??06:33
janimowell I guess because it's cheaper than making a proper usb device06:34
Keybukyeah06:34
Keybuklook at all of the PCI wireless cards that are just a PCMCIA bridge :)06:35
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kentjono: you didnt meen to highligt me earlier right? it seems you where talking to another person..06:35
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Keybukpitti: ok, I have a cute bug... my clock is wrong, but I can't sudo ntpdate because sudo bitches about a timestamp being too far in the futuer06:37
Keybukdholbach: help!06:37
Keybukdholbach: copy and paste isn't working in gnome today06:37
pittiKeybuk: hm, I remember having seen that bug somewhere in bz06:38
dholbachKeybuk: copying from where to where?06:38
Keybukdholbach: gnome-terminal to gnome-terminal using PRIMARY06:39
KeybukI paste with the middle-mouse and get SECONDARY06:39
Keybukseems to be true of every app06:39
Keybukx-chat notably can't hilight or delete/copy etc.06:39
Keybukpitti: sudo -k doesn't help either06:39
Keybukaha!  gksudo doesn't care <g>06:40
pittiKeybuk: hm, strange, works fine for me06:40
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pittiKeybuk: I just set my clock one hour into the future and then sudo'ed 06:40
Keybukpitti: I set my clock to one year in the past06:40
Keybuktry it that way06:40
pittiok06:40
dholbachKeybuk: how did you end up in that state?06:41
Surakalguem perguntou de cds. eu compro ha uns dez anos no linuxmall.com - tambem chamado cheapbytes06:41
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Keybukdholbach: which state?06:41
pittiKeybuk: I get the warning, but it doesn't stop me from executing sudo06:41
Keybukdholbach: I'm willing to believe that c&p is broken because of my clock change06:42
pittiKeybuk: I remember that I already tried that before, but I couldn't reproduce it06:42
Keybukpitti: it causes sudo to do nothing for me06:42
pittiit seems it needs a more detailled recipe06:42
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KeybukI had to touch /var/run/sudo/scott to make it work06:42
dholbachKeybuk: urg - I will try to reproduce that06:42
Tonio_hi all06:42
pittidrwx------ 2 root root 120 2005-04-24 11:40 martin06:42
pittiKeybuk: ^ my stamp file, from a year ago06:42
Keybukpitti: with the date as normal, I did "sudo date 070900002005"06:42
Keybukobviously this gave me a 2006-era timestamp file06:43
Keybukthen after that (and after ticket timeout) sudo no longer works06:43
mvoMithrandir: sorry for the long delay. the reason that apt wants to reinstall your local build package is that it builds a hash from "installed-size,depeds,pre-depends, conflicts, replaces" and considers two identical version only identical when this hash matches. if not it it considers them as two diferent versions that happen to have the same version number. than the normal priority system applies and that means that the local installed pack06:43
mvoage has 100 and the one from the archive 500 -> the version from the archive is the new candidate06:43
mvo(this is what Keybuk suspected :)06:43
Mithrandirmvo: excellent, thanks. :-)06:44
mvoMithrandir: cheers .)06:44
pittiKeybuk: call me stupid, I still can't reproduce it06:44
Kamionhmm, I'm going to have to deliberately break partman to test my candidate fix for these ubiquity bugs06:44
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Keybukmvo: cool, nice to know the exact details :)  I suspected Installed-Size was important06:45
Keybukpitti: heh; I didn't try this deliberately <g>06:45
pittiKeybuk: hm, so again; I start with no stamp file at all?06:45
KeybukI started with no timestamp file06:46
Keybukdid something to get one with the right date (2006)06:46
Keybukthen sudo date 2005 to set my clock back06:46
Keybukdid a lot of work, then tried to sudo date again06:46
mvoKeybuk: yes :) I got a bugreport today about this as well (pining does not work when you have identical version numbers but different packages)06:46
Keybukand that wouldn't work, and gave that warning06:46
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pittiKeybuk: I just did that, and immediately after sudo date, I get asked for the password again, but it works06:47
pittiKeybuk: I'll try it again and just let it time out now06:47
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pittiwhoops, this seriously confused gtimelog :)06:48
Keybukquest libnih% sudo -s06:49
Keybuksudo: timestamp too far in the future: Aug  9 00:30:13 200506:49
Keybukquest libnih%06:49
Keybukis the kind of thing I get06:49
Mithrandirlibnih, is that your libscott? :-)06:50
thomaugust 9 2005? is that how far KNT has slipped now?06:50
KeybukMithrandir: yeah06:52
Keybukthom: lol06:52
KeybukMithrandir: is the collection of random routines and stuff that I've written over the years, I mostly just C&P into stuff I write06:52
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=== bddebian cries
highvoltageno woman no cry06:54
bddebianheh06:54
ograHiddenWolf, oh, did she leave him ? 06:54
ograerr06:54
ograhighvoltage, 06:54
ogrado you know more than we ? 06:54
highvoltageogra: 06:54
ogratell us !06:54
highvoltagehehe. no.06:55
bddebianIf she was smart she would :-)06:55
abelcheungop[06:55
highvoltagethey playd bob marley on the radio on the way home.06:55
Mithrandirogra: you know "no woman no cry" does not mean "if there's no woman, there's no cryin'" but rather "woman, don't cry"?06:55
highvoltagebddebian: what's wrong, you're keeping us all in suspense06:55
highvoltageMithrandir: i never knew that06:56
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Keybuk*giggle*06:56
KamionKeybuk: do you happen to know if it's intentional that dpkg doesn't call the prerm when removing a package that's only unpacked?06:56
Mithrandirhighvoltage: the song makes a lot more sense that way.06:56
ograheh06:56
Keybukogra: setting the date *forward* by more than five minutes activates the screensaver06:56
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KeybukKamion: what state was the package in?06:56
highvoltagexscreensaver has been doing that for a long time.06:57
KeybukKamion: valid unpacked but not configured state?06:57
ograKeybuk, i only knew that it happens if you adjust it by an hour ... (with *all* screensaver implementations apparently=06:57
ogras/=/)/06:57
Keybukogra: oh, well I adjusted it by two months :)06:57
KamionKeybuk: 'install ok unpacked'; failed to configure due to dependencies06:57
KeybukKamion: I think it's intentional that it doesn't yeah06:58
Keybukprerm remove "undoes" postinst configure06:58
Keybukpostrm remove "undoes" preinst install06:58
Keybuketc.06:58
Keybukyou'd have to feed iwj enough alcohol to get him to the same mindstate he was in when he wrote that bit, and then ask him, for absolute clarification06:59
Keybukyou may find that the way he *intended* it work work, and the way it actually works, are at odds; of course :)06:59
KamionKeybuk: oh, hmm, ok06:59
ograsure that was alcohol ?06:59
Mithrandirjust ask marga to make a diagram of how it's supposed to work?06:59
Kamionthe real problem I'm having is that dh_python's prerm script is responsible for removing .pyc and .pyo files on package removal06:59
Keybuklol06:59
Keybukmarga makes diagrams of how it actually works07:00
Keybukwhich makes people realise it doesn't work how it's supposed to07:00
bddebianhighvoltage: This stupid mime/xml file for anjuta07:00
KeybukKamion: what are those generated by?07:00
KeybukKamion: postinst, no?07:00
Kamionand dh_python's postinst fragment compiles everything in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages, not just the .py files for this package07:00
Kamionso it's generated by some other package's postinst07:00
Keybukyeah, those should probably be removed in postrm not prerm07:00
Keybukas I understand the intended operation07:00
Kamionok, I'll file a debhelper bug07:01
Keybukah07:02
Keybukyes, definitely intentional07:02
Keybukprerm was called07:02
Keybuk"prerm upgrade" is called before ver 2 is unpacked07:02
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dholbachKamion: thanks for removing the packages from the archive.07:02
Keybukso ver 1 prerm has been called, and told it was being called due to upgrade07:03
Keybukso there's no reason for ver 2 prerm to be called until it's been configured07:03
Keybukas I follow this logic07:03
janimodholbach: what's the best irc chan to ask gtk app dev related questions?07:04
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dholbachjanimo: #gtk+ on irc.gnome.org07:05
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janimodholbach: thanks07:06
dholbachjanimo: anytime07:06
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KamionKeybuk: (in this case it's a newly installed package so the prerm wasn't in fact called)07:08
KeybukKamion: yeah, the logic still stands from the upgrade case though07:08
Keybukit implies prerm matches postinst07:08
=== Kamion nods
Keybukwhich is how I've always understood it, anyway07:08
=== Kamion pastes all this into a debhelper bug report then
Lurepitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportWlassistant says approved, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue says it is still in queue07:16
Lurepitti: what is correct?07:16
pittiLure: yes, because I'm not sure which of knetworkmaanger or wlassistant we'll use eventually07:16
pittiRiddell: ^ ?07:17
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Riddellpitti: knetworkmanager will just follow network-manager-gnome which last I checked isn't installed by default07:17
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ograbut its in main07:18
pittiRiddell: and wlassistant will be?07:18
Riddellso wlassistant would be installed by default07:18
pittiRiddell: it smells like redundancy :)07:18
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ograwlassistant == wpasupplicant for knetworkmanager ? 07:18
Riddellpitti: we already have kwifimanager which duplicates both knetworkconf and knetworkmanager, wlassistant just duplicates knetworkmanager07:18
ograah07:19
jjesseknetworkmanager is easier to use then wlassistant 07:19
jjesseand i've found it to be more reliable07:19
Riddellogra: no, it's a fairly simple wifi scanning and connection tool07:19
Lureogra: but just unencrypted and WEP07:20
Lure(no WPA - you need knetworkmanager & wpasupplicant for WPA*)07:20
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pittiRiddell: so, you want both in main?07:23
Riddellpitti: yes please07:23
pittialright07:24
Riddelluntil network manager can be installed by default07:24
pittigar, what broke mouse copy&paste in gnome-terminal???07:25
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=== soumyadip is away: dinner
pittiRiddell: are the KDE printing patches now in dapper?07:31
Riddellpitti: yes07:32
pittiRiddell: I still have some bugs wrt. broken Kubuntu printing07:32
pittilike bug 3956307:32
UbugtuMalone bug 39563 in cupsys "Unable to print to a Canon Prixma IP 1000" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3956307:32
pittiRiddell: ok, then I'll ask the reporter to upgrade and check again07:32
Riddellpitti: yeah, I should start going through those, although first I'd like confirmation from someone other than me that it works now07:32
pittiaargh, I need mouse middle click for pasting, it's in my fingers07:34
ograyou can use shift+ctrl+{c,v} :)07:34
pittidoko: can you please take a look at bug 34599?07:37
UbugtuMalone bug 34599 in cupsys "Canon PIXMA IP xxxx don't work" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3459907:37
pittidoko: it seems that the generated postscript lacks %BoundingBox, i. e. is regarded as invalid. Do you know whether that's due to a faulty PPD?07:38
dokopitti: cups says, it's missing?07:39
pittidoko: yes, see last bug comment07:39
Riddelldoko: did you upload my openoffice .desktop files fix for KDE?07:40
dokoRiddell: the line should be in all desktop files07:40
Riddelldoko: all openoffice ones yes07:41
dokoRiddell: was this a question, or an confirmation?07:41
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Riddellconfirmation07:42
Riddelldoko: do you have the patch, or shall I redo it, I can't seem to find a copy just now07:43
dokoRiddell: ??? why redo it ???07:43
Riddelldoko: because I can't find where I put it07:44
Riddelldoko: unless you already applied it?07:44
dokoRiddell: yes, it's applied and uploaded07:44
dokoamd64 still missing07:45
Riddelloh excellent07:45
Riddellright, the explains why I'm not seeing it07:45
dokoahh, ok07:45
RiddellI see it now, sorry for the confusion07:45
Riddelldoko: next thing is that openoffice-kde doesn't seem to work on amd6407:46
dokoRiddell: at all?07:47
Riddelldoko: it runs, but it's not using the KDE style07:47
dokoare openoffice.org-gtk and openoffice.org-kde installed?07:48
dokoare openoffice.org-gtk and openoffice.org-gnome installed?07:48
Riddellhmm, and File->Save just froze X07:49
Riddellneither of openoffice.org-gtk-gnome or openoffice.org-gtk are installed07:50
dokoRiddell: oowriter --widgets-set kde comes up with the KDE style, but I'm running it in gnome07:50
Riddelloowriter --widgets-set comes up as build-in widgets for me07:51
Riddellah, if I install openoffice.org-gtk-gnome and openoffice.org-gtk then it comes up with the qt style07:53
LaserJockmdz: thank you, thank you, thank you for "Bug forwarding methodology in Ubuntu"07:55
dokoRiddell: remove openoffice.org-gtk-gnome and openoffice.org-gnome, does it still use qt?07:56
Riddelldoko: yes, still using qt07:57
dokoRiddell: do you have openoffice.org-gtk's dependencies on the kubuntu CD?07:57
Riddelldoko: no07:57
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dokoRiddell: just found out, that /usr/lib/qt3/plugins/inputmethods/libqscim.so is not linked against libqt 08:06
dokothere's one report open for that one ...08:06
mdzLaserJock: does that mean you volunteer to help with the proposed team? ;-)08:07
bddebianheh08:07
Riddelldoko: curious08:08
dokohmm, you should never try to remove left-over diversions in the preinst ...08:08
LaserJockmdz: perhaps, but this issue has really bugged me. I *want* to help get bugs upstream (especially MOTUScience bugs) but the process is so labor intensive08:08
mdzfabbione: can we make x11-common conflict with xorg-common so that xorg-common gets removed on upgrades?08:08
LaserJockmdz: bddebian has added ~40 .desktop files from people to science packages, but I don't want to carry all that diff and they really need to go upstream08:09
bddebianLaserJock: I have a folder in my inbox that I want to submit to Debian when I'm "done" :-)08:09
LaserJockmdz: right now I'm looking at having to contact 40 upstreams, which isn't exactly fun :/08:10
LaserJockbddebian: I was going to try  emailing debian-science with a link to find the .desktops and/or debdiffs08:10
bddebianAhh08:10
mdzKeybuk: the backgrounding of hwclock.sh seems to interact poorly with usplash08:11
mdzKeybuk: can it be fixed, or should we just remove the messages since it's happening in the background?08:11
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mdzKeybuk: I expect we can't properly do usplash status messages in parallel08:11
bddebianGrrr, how do I get apt-get build-dep to continue on errors?08:12
Keybukmdz: yeah, i've noticed that already, the [ok]  gets lost08:12
mdzKeybuk: or rather, it actually comes up 1 second later ;-)08:13
Keybukwe can just replace that entire script with "udevplug /class/misc/rtc" anyway08:13
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Keybukit's only needed while /etc/localtime is a symlink to something under /usr08:13
Keybuk(and people insist on putting /usr on a different partition)08:13
mdzKeybuk: I'd feel a bit safer about just removing the messages ;-)08:13
mdz(for dapper)08:13
Keybukagree08:14
mdzKeybuk: would it be reasonable to force VERBOSE=no to get that effect?08:14
mdzor preferable to just rip out the code?08:14
mdzpresumably debian isn't using it08:14
Keybukjust rip out the code is easier08:15
mdzKeybuk: mind doing that one for me?08:15
mdzI'm behind on administrative matters08:16
Keybukdone08:16
mdzthanks08:16
Keybukwas just testing it08:16
Keybukoh, meh, this upload is going to look messy :p08:16
=== Keybuk regenerates it with the clock set to 2006, not 2005 :p
mdzdholbach: do you think it would be OK to use --oknodo in /etc/init.d/gdm stop?08:17
dholbachmdz: For the moment I can't see any complications this might make.08:18
dholbachmdz: Is this a change needed for usplash?08:18
mdzdholbach: I just have a list of cosmetic issues with startup/shutdown08:19
mdzdholbach: one of them is that gdm doesn't print an 'ok'08:19
mdzthat's presumably because gdm is already dead and start-stop-daemon exits nonzero08:19
dholbachmdz: Ok, I see - do you want to do that change now, or shall I tell seb, who wanted to update gdm anyway?08:20
mdzdholbach: isn't seb away on holidays?08:20
mdzdholbach: it's not urgent, no08:20
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dholbachmdz: he is, yes.08:20
mdzdholbach: the restart action has "stop || true" anyway, so I don't see that it could have negative side effects08:20
dholbachmdz: sounds good to me, yeah.08:21
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dholbachmdz: if you want to get it all done, it's fine. I'll add it to my todo list to make sure it's done.08:23
bddebianDamn, I need a KDE Ubuntu install08:23
bddebianAnd an ia64, and a PPC, and, and, and.. :-)08:23
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Mithrandirbddebian: and a pony!08:27
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ograMithrandir, yes i noted there was still no checkmark on "Horse" in your "am i spoiled" questionnaire :)08:27
bddebianMithrandir: Nah, I prefer Goats.. ;-P08:28
Mithrandirogra: I still live in a 80m flat in downtown Oslo and we don't have a balcony yet, so..08:28
bddebianOh, was that a real e-mail?  I thought it was spam08:28
ogrameh08:28
Mithrandirogra: I suspect simira might want one when we move to a proper house, but that's not for a few more years.08:29
ograwe'll move into a city soon, so we wont have a pony either ... 08:29
ogra:(08:29
Mithrandiryou have one today?08:29
ograand whats worse no bees for me :/08:29
ogranope, but we were planning to get one this summer08:29
ograa donkey and a pony08:29
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mdzdholbach: so long as it is on someone's list and is done well before RC ;-)08:34
dholbachmdz: I pondered buying a huge whiteboard instead of pen and paper for my todo lists - I just can't get used to use the computer for them.08:36
mdzdholbach: I just use text files08:36
=== Nafallo uses tomboy :-)
mdzexcept while making notes about the boot process08:37
mdzor during workrave breaks08:37
LaserJockdholbach: me neither, I just have a huge stack of sticky notes on my desk08:37
mdzthen I use paper08:37
dholbachI tend to accidentally delete them or have them on different machines, ...08:37
ogramdz, hey you are supposed to take *breaks* if workrave telly you ... not just switch the media ... thats cheating08:38
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ogra*tells08:38
Mithrandirdholbach: if you have a nearby IKEA: they sell a1 whiteboards for about 10-15, iirc08:39
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dholbachMithrandir: WOW08:39
Mithrandirdholbach: (we have three of them)08:40
dholbachMithrandir: that's brilliant08:40
dholbachI'll be late tomorrow08:40
dholbach:-p08:40
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ograhmm, hothing on the ikea website08:40
ograi'd like some as well for my new office08:41
Mithrandirdholbach: http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10103&storeId=5&langId=-3&productId=1109808:41
Mithrandirdholbach: the pens they have are silly so buy some decent ones from a bookshop instead.  They cost more but won't dry so quickly.08:42
ograhmm08:42
dholbachgood to know - thanks a lot08:42
mdzogra: I spend much of my workrave breaks thinking about things that need to be done08:43
ogra80x58 ?08:43
mdzogra: if I don't write them down, I forget them08:43
=== dholbach hugs Mithrandir
ogramdz, you need a secretary, really :)08:44
=== bddebian volunteers ;-P
mdza voice recorder would be more practical08:44
Mithrandirogra: ok, almost.  A1 is 594x841mm08:44
tsengi like small index cards08:44
mdzif I had a secretary, I would need to dress for work08:45
tsengmore than post-its08:45
ograheh, yes, but voice recorders selom look as good :)08:45
ogra*seldom08:45
ogralol08:45
ograyes08:45
bddebianHeya tseng08:45
tsenghi bddebian 08:45
Mithrandirmdz: just a voice link to your secretary, then08:45
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tsengmdz: in my office the secretary comes to work at least 4 days a week08:45
tsengmdz: the VP comes much less08:45
bddebianheh08:45
bddebianIs the secretary gone when the VP is gone?? ;-P08:46
tsengno.08:46
ograMithrandir, oh, i was reading A0 above, sorry08:47
ograsure thats A108:47
Mithrandirogra: but at that price, you can buy two. :-P08:47
Mithrandirwhich gives you a008:47
ograyep08:47
ogra:)08:47
ogra(i dont even know if my new office has space for whiteboards ... should find out first :) )08:48
highvoltagewiki's are the new whiteboards. although it's more difficult to get excited and write stuff frantically on a wiki than on a whiteboard.08:49
Mithrandirhighvoltage: wikis suck for drawing stuff on, though08:49
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netstarDoes powerpc ubuntu glibc include: http://penguinppc.org/dev/glibc/glibc-powerpc-cpu-addon.html08:50
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KamionRiddell: the embedded qtparted doesn't seem to be starting for me; it just exits immediately09:10
RiddellKamion: curious, I've never had any problems with that09:11
Kamiondon't think it's something I'd have broken with my changes today09:11
Mithrandirogra: does the edubuntu live cd support being a terminal server?09:14
ogranope09:14
ograyou can apt-get it though09:15
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ograbut it wont be fun to run it09:15
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Kamionmdz: I'm considering a fairly quick Flight CD 7 release this week after bug 40464; any comments?09:17
UbugtuMalone bug 40464 in ubiquity "espresso crashes on partitioning step in Kubuntu 6.06 LTS Beta Live CD" [Critical,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4046409:17
ograis it really flight 7 ? not beta 2 ?09:19
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Kamionogra: I'm concerned about spending the sort of developer time that would be needed for beta 209:23
ograbut it fixes stuff from beta ... so the naming would suggest that09:23
Kamioni don't know09:23
Kamionthe naming is not my primary concern right now anyway09:24
ograindeed09:24
Mithrandirbeta 1 - flight 7?09:24
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ograMithrandir, good idea09:25
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Kamionthe question implied by naming is whether it goes on cdimage.u.c or releases.u.c09:25
Kamionreleases.u.c has traditionally been held to a higher standard of QA09:25
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Kamionin the past we haven't really faced the question of something published on releases.u.c that turns out to have dangerous bugs, though09:26
Kamionthere's the possibility of doing Flight 7 for the text-mode install CD and an updated beta desktop CD, I guess09:26
Mithrandirwe could just call it beta 1.109:26
Kamionwhich would be half the effort to QA09:26
Kamion(well, ish)09:26
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bluefoxicydamnit.09:27
Kamionthe beta text-mode install CD is fine AFAIK, we don't need to update it09:27
Mithrandiryeah09:27
bluefoxicyThere's a lot of new DRM code in 2.6.16, chunks of the DRM system seem to have been fundamentally reworked09:27
Keybukdid we decide what we're actually calling that yet?  "text-mode install CD" is a bit of a mouthful09:27
bluefoxicyand via is still broke on 2.6.1509:27
KamionKeybuk: haven't seen better suggestions yet :(09:27
bddebianTMIC09:27
ograKeybuk, it was used in the announcement iirc09:27
bluefoxicytime to build a 2.6.16 kernel and see if it fixes it.09:27
KeybukKamion: I liked "console CD", as it suggests a partner to "desktop"09:27
=== bluefoxicy gets the source
ograso until something better comes along it might be the wording09:28
KamionKeybuk: but it suggests that the result will be a non-X installation09:28
Kamion(to me, anyway)09:28
mdzKamion: yes, I'd like to get into a shorter rhythm of Flight releases post-Beta, since they should be relatively lightweight (we'll be very conservative when it comes to disruptive changes)09:28
ograKamion++09:28
Keybukso does "text-mode install" (to me)09:28
Kamionat least it admits the possibility of the adjective modifying "install" rather than the whole thing09:28
ogratext *based* would be better09:28
Kamionmdz: what do you think of doing another beta live CD?09:29
Mithrandirmdz: what does "shorter rhytm" mean?  Weekly or every second week?09:29
mdzKamion: in terms of naming or process?09:29
Kamionmdz: either, really09:29
bluefoxicyI'm downloading a 2.6.16.10 bz2 from kernel.org, what's the best way to build it aside from hand-configuration?09:29
Kamionin terms of "should we, given that the installer has a significant risk of trashing your disk"09:29
crimsun(why not "Traditional" for the install CD?)09:30
Kamiontraditional is OK by me, I can't remember whether it came up09:30
ogra"classic" !09:30
tsengbluefoxicy: 2.6.16 won't be in dapper, you are kind of cluttering important time-relevant discussion.09:30
mdzKamion: sounds too safe and warm09:30
bluefoxicytseng:  nod.  -offtopic then?09:30
mdzMithrandir: weekly would be ideal but I think the overhead is still too high09:30
tsengbluefoxicy: wherever.09:30
tsengbluefoxicy: #-kernel if you have a point09:31
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mdzKamion: how would a hypothetical second beta differ from flight 7, other than naming?  I think a full test cycle a la beta would be excessive09:31
bluefoxicytseng:  ah yes, forgot about that one, thanks.09:31
Kamionmdz: going on releases.u.c, replacing existing beta09:31
mdzKamion: we'd have to be careful if we want useful bug reports09:31
Kamionmdz: I know, but the impact of 40464 is such that I'm not getting useful installer bug reports09:32
Kamionthey're dominated by "oh my god it ate my disk"09:32
mdzKamion: ok then, if it's worth the "which beta are you using?" headaches, then yes09:32
Kamionand I think people are being scared off trying it09:32
Kamion(understandably)09:33
sivangre09:33
Kamionmdz: we'd have to call it beta 1.1 or beta 2 or something to help with that09:33
bddebianAnyone know what I can do about this: 09:33
bddebianconfigure.in:1467: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_CHECK_TCLTK09:33
bddebian      If this token and others are legitimate, please use m4_pattern_allow.09:33
bddebian      See the Autoconf documentation.09:33
bddebianwb sivang09:33
mdzKamion: beta 209:33
Mithrandirbeta 2 and just copy d-i install cds beta 1 to beta 2?09:34
Kamionif I have time tomorrow, I'll try to get a crash dialog thing into ubiquity, to reduce the bug triage turnaround time09:34
crimsunbddebian: url in -motu?09:34
KamionMithrandir: that's certainly possible09:34
bddebiancrimsun: ?09:34
Kamionand if possible fix the passwords-logged-in-debug-mode problem and default UBIQUITY_DEBUG=109:34
Kamionanyway, time for not-work, night all09:35
mdzKamion: what's special about the circumstances in #40464?  I never saw anything like it09:35
bddebianGnight Kamion09:35
Kamionmdz: requires the installer frontend to crash while partman is running09:35
Kamionmdz: can happen if you have e.g. unclean partitions that parted throws an error on09:35
ograi just had one case in #edubuntu 09:36
KamionI haven't nailed down the exact set of circumstances, but that's reasonably close I think09:36
ograseems to happen quite frequently09:36
mdzKamion: does the fix make it robust against GUI crashes in general?09:36
Kamionmdz: yes, I believe so09:36
Kamiondebconffiltered subprocesses will now go the hell away as soon as they try to talk to debconf (they'll get SIGPIPE and terminate)09:37
Kamionwhereas before, thanks to python, they got SIGPIPE and carried on09:37
Kamionand the partitioner always tries to talk to debconf for the confirmation question before committing anyway09:37
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Kamionanything09:37
Kamionit also fixes a class of problems where the installer crashed and then couldn't be restarted because something was still talking to debconf09:38
mdzKamion: I'm undecided over whether we should replace the existing beta or break the links from the announcement09:38
Kamiongot to go, sorry to leave in the middle of a discussion; I'll read scrollback though09:39
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jcolehttp://www.codeweavers.com/support/tickets/browse/?ticket_id=77466;s_subject=ubuntu;search=%20Submit%20Search%2010:07
jcolethat says i need to recompile my kernel for CONFIG_3GB10:07
jcole=y10:08
Keybukuse a server kernel10:08
jcole$ grep GB=y config-2.6.15-21-68610:08
jcoleCONFIG_1GB=y10:08
jcoleah10:08
KeybukI think, anyway10:09
jcolei'll install and grep the config...10:09
mjg59jcole: That's been fixed for some time10:09
Keybukthough I can't even find that define in the current kernel source10:09
mjg59If you're having problems, that's not the fix10:10
jcolemjg59: kernel 2.6.15-21 is the latest i can find for dapper10:10
mjg59jcole: Yes10:10
mjg59It has the correct 3:1 split10:10
mjg59Ignore the options, they're confusingly named10:10
jcolemjg59: i'm running 2.6.15-20, maybe i need to reboot into it?10:11
mjg59jcole: No, it's fixed in that as well10:11
=== jcole installs 2.6.15-21
mjg59What error are you getting?10:11
jcolemjg59: my system just freezes up hard10:11
jcole$ grep GB=y config-2.6.15-21-server10:11
jcoleCONFIG_1GB=y10:11
jcolecrap10:11
jcolewell, htat's not going to work10:11
Amaranth<mjg59> Ignore the options, they're confusingly named10:12
mjg59jcole: I'm sorry, I don't understand10:12
mjg59jcole: The report you pointed at is about a crash in a userspace application, not a kernel freeze10:13
jcoleaccording to sedwards in #crossover, i need CONFIG_3GB=y10:13
mjg59jcole: Not in the Ubuntu case10:13
mjg59Trust me on this. The kernel configuration is the one you want, and the misconfiguration would *not* cause a hard freeze10:13
Robot101explodes10:15
jcolemjg59: i'm running in hyperthread (smp) mode10:15
mjg59jcole: That makes no difference10:15
jcolemjg59: :/10:15
mjg59jcole: This bug report http://www.codeweavers.com/support/tickets/browse/?ticket_id=77466;s_subject=ubuntu;search=%20Submit%20Search%2010:15
mjg59has nothing to do with system freezes10:15
bluefoxicywait i'm confused10:16
bluefoxicydoes ubuntu use 3G Kernel/1G User or 3G User/1G Kernel now?10:16
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jcolemaybe i should install 2.6.15-18 and diff the config?10:17
=== bluefoxicy had to move to 64-bit because of the 1G limit in user space months ago, thought it was a bug.
jcolepeople seem to having success with crossover on version 2.6.15-1810:17
jcolebut of course, i can't find it in apt, lol10:18
jcolecan someone diff those kernel configs?10:18
mjg59jcole: Without telling us what the bug actually /is/, no10:18
jcolemjg59: i'm trying to install IE in crossover office and when running the IE setup my system locks up10:19
jcolemjg59: worked on the breezy system here10:20
mjg59That's much more likely to be an X problem than a kernel one10:20
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jcolemjg59: there doesn't seem to be any up kernel anymore, is there a kernel param i can use to disable smp?10:23
mjg59jcole: nosmp, I think10:23
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mjg59The -386 kernel is still up only10:23
mjg59But again, I doubt that's your problem10:23
jcolemjg59: i've been using crossover for many years and remember there was once a problem with wine+smp10:24
mjg59jcole: If there is, it's a wine bug not a kernel bug10:24
jcolemjg59: wine does some scary stuff with memory and binary code10:24
mjg59Can you still ping the machine while it's frozen?10:24
jcolemjg59: no, it's dead, i tried to ssh to it, then ping it with no success10:25
mjg59Hm. Interesting.10:25
mjg59Might be a kernel issue, then (but certainly not the 3/1 split thing)10:25
jcolemjg59: brb, i'll try nosmp10:25
bluefoxicymjg59:  what's the 3/1 split look like?  K/U or U/K?10:26
mjg59bluefoxicy: kernel/user, I believe10:27
mjg59Oh, no, other way around10:27
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bluefoxicymjg59:  Ah, 3 gig in userspace again?10:27
mjg59Back to the default10:27
bluefoxicyA few months ago i moved to an AMD64 base install because somehow there was 1G U and 3G K  and Gimp crashed while I was editing an image with 45 layers :P10:27
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bluefoxicymjg59:  why was it 1/3 instead for a while?  Design decision?  Bug?10:28
mjg59It was 2/2 for a while10:28
mjg59Worked around a couple of other bugs, but broke some userspace apps10:29
bluefoxicymmm.  I threw a test program at it that mmap()ed out sets of pages and calculated how much it could mmap() before they started to fail, it always stopped a few megs short of a gig.10:29
bluefoxicyinterestingly, when I got to amd64, it started doing it up to 87TiB10:30
trappistwell a 64bit cpu can map a lot more than 4GB10:33
bluefoxicyDid 22369619 mappings of 4194304 = 9382498245017610:33
bluefoxicy                87381GiB10:33
jdongbluefoxicy: dude... it's 64-bit...10:33
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bluefoxicytrappist:  a 64-bit CPU with a 48-bit virtual address space (AMD64) can map 256TiB10:33
bluefoxicyI was more expecting a 64TiB kernel/192TiB User split, but :)10:34
bluefoxicyit doesn't really matter much either way10:34
bluefoxicyit looks like 2/3 go to kernel, 1/3 to user10:36
bluefoxicyif that's even possible; 256 doesn't divide by 3 very well, nor does 1024 (the base raised exponentially to calculate bytes from TiB) or 4096 (the page size).10:38
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jcol1got disconnected10:42
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dholbachKinnison: g-p-m 2.14.2 for you - rejoice!10:58
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mvodholbach: does  it have the inhibit dbus interface?10:59
dholbachmvo: I didn't read the diff, so I have no idea - sorry.10:59
mvodholbach: slacker ;)10:59
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dholbachOk, I call it a day11:00
mdkenight11:01
bddebianGnight dholbach11:03
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SurakKamion: should all espresso bugs be moved to ubiquity?11:15
BenCdholbach: ping11:17
mdkeunlucky11:17
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mdkehas a positive decision been taken to hide mounted partitions on the desktop again, or did the fix to bug #28991 get dropped?11:27
UbugtuMalone bug 28991 in nautilus "drives icons on the desktop for dapper?" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2899111:27
desrtso the prevailing theory is that bootup (of gnome and say, ubuntu, in general) is that the system spends tonnes of time waiting on disk io, right?11:27
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desrtmdke; originally mounted partitions were hidden except for ones in /media and /mnt (which were shown)11:28
desrtmdke; pitti then changed it so that only the ones in /media are shown (/mnt is hidden again)11:28
mdkewell, now they aren't again11:28
desrt/mnt is back?11:28
mdkeno, nothing is shown11:29
desrtis show_volumes selected?11:29
desrtvolumes_visible, even11:29
mdkeoh hell11:29
mdkeit is, must be a different bug11:29
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desrtmdke; only volumes with mountpoints in /media will be shown11:30
mdkei thought everything that is mounted automatically goes there11:31
desrtno.11:31
desrtthis is a change to hal and gnome-vfs that happened right around the release of gnome 2.1411:31
desrti think the change was to gnome-vfs and pitti got angry and vendor-patched hal to mitigate the negative effects11:31
mdkehttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2006-April/006212.html11:31
desrti personally think everyone ought to use the drivemount applet :)11:32
mdkedesrt, but sadly Ubuntu doesn't provide that by default11:33
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desrtmdke; it's very very easy to add11:33
mdkedesrt, only if you know it's there11:33
desrtfair11:33
joelbryananyone, is there an issue with binding <Ctrl><Alt>Delete with gnome-system-monitor?11:34
=== desrt cannot imagine one
joelbryanI reported a bug and include a script to do that, #4118611:35
joelbryanBug #4118611:35
UbugtuMalone bug 41186 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "Configure Ctrl-Alt-Del to open Gnome System Monitor" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4118611:35
mdkeyou need to file it on gnome-session, I think11:36
joelbryanor metacity?11:36
joelbryanWhat does ubuntu-desktop do, anyways?11:38
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mdkejoelbryan, it doesn't do anything, but it has lots of dependencies11:43
LaserJockjoelbryan: ubuntu-desktop is a metapackage that depends on all the various bits that make up the Ubuntu Desktop, or something like that11:43
joelbryanok11:43
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mdkeKinnison, bug #39448 for you to consider when you have time.11:50
UbugtuMalone bug 39448 in gnome-power-manager acpi-support "Screen is not locked when it should be" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3944811:50
mdkeKinnison, ping me if you'd like to discuss11:50
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