[12:26] <mroth> can anyone comment on bug 30984?  It seems serious enough to warrant the newer version of powernowd despite UVF.
[12:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30984 in powernowd "(Dapper) kernel 2.6.15.15-686 breaks freq scaling on core duo" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30984
[12:38] <jdong> mroth: if I'm reading that bug report properly, powernowd does not currently scale the 2nd processor?
[12:38] <jdong> that is indeed an issue
[12:47] <mroth> jdong: thats the issue.  CPU0 scales freely, CPU1 stays at 100%
[12:47] <mroth> jdong: one of the last comments on the bug seems to suggest its fixed upstream in powernowd 0.97
[12:47] <jdong> that's undesirable for Dapper. Multi-core systems are going to become ubiquitous
[12:47] <mroth> agreed.
[12:52] <jdong> yes, it is true
[12:52] <jdong> and damn are those core duos fast at compiling powernowd!
[12:52] <jdong> a sloppy 0.97 "backport" does fix the problem
[12:52] <jdong> although the modprobe order is still finicky
[12:52] <jdong> whether or not I need to manually add the speedstep modules to /etc/modules
[01:25] <coz_> ok I just downloaded the current dapper daily build
[01:25] <coz_> i installed it using the espresso installer
[01:26] <coz_> first there is no screen resolution chooser in the espresso installer bad move
[01:26] <coz_> second five (5) clean installs on four machines created the same results after the updates System would not boot
[01:27] <coz_> now i understand that dapper is in beta etc etc, however please if you have updates make sure they ar completely tested before posting them
[01:27] <Keybuk> coz_: daily builds aren't tested
[01:27] <Keybuk> that's kinda the point
[01:27] <Keybuk> they're builds *to* test
[01:27] <coz_> this also happened with a flight cd when the updates were installed
[01:27] <Keybuk> if you wanted a tested build, you wanted the Beta or Flight releases
[01:27] <Keybuk> Flights are tested before release
[01:28] <coz_> Keybuk, same thing happend with the flight cds
[01:28] <Keybuk> if you have a problem, then it's one that is unique to your machine
[01:28] <coz_> well not well enough with the updates
[01:28] <coz_> Keybuk, four different machines identical results
[01:28] <Keybuk> interesting
[01:28] <coz_> we do testing building and installations as well as system integrations here
[01:29] <Keybuk> there are probably a million working dapper installs right now
[01:29] <coz_> same results on all machines with the cirrent updates linux images etc
[01:29] <Keybuk> so you have a cute bug
[01:29] <coz_> they do not work
[01:29] <coz_> Keybuk, not me you guys
[01:29] <Keybuk> thanks for helping us test Ubuntu
[01:29] <Keybuk> what's the particular problem?  is there an error during boot
[01:29] <coz_> Keybuk, I take this os seriously I have to support with clients
[01:30] <coz_> ] now none of them have dapper yet but I deal with clients programmers etc all day long
[01:30] <Keybuk> we would not suggest you ship dapper at this time
[01:30] <Keybuk> obviously once it's released it will be fully supported
[01:30] <coz_> Keybuk,  yes yes I undersatnd but had to vent
[01:30] <Keybuk> venting isn't useful, it's just rude in general
[01:30] <Keybuk> if you have a problem, then it's reasonably safe to assume you have a problem nobody else has had
[01:31] <coz_> Keybuk, this venting is neither rude or anything other than constructive 
[01:31] <Keybuk> if dapper didn't work for anybody, we wouldn't be online right now :)
[01:31] <Keybuk> so let's do something more constructive
[01:31] <coz_> it is a fact that has occurred to day five times clean installs
[01:31] <Keybuk> what's the problem you're having?
[01:31] <coz_> system does not boot after installation of cirrent updates particularly the linux kernel updates
[01:31] <Keybuk> ok, "does not boot" is rather vague
[01:32] <Keybuk> I assume that it at least powers up and gets the machine past POST
[01:32] <Keybuk> so it's at least partially booting
[01:32] <Keybuk> at some point, the boot must fail
[01:32] <coz_> cannot read root file system
[01:32] <Keybuk> ok, now there's two different errors
[01:32] <Keybuk> is it unable to identify the type of the root filesystem
[01:32] <Keybuk> or is it unable to find the root filesystem
[01:32] <Keybuk> what's the _exact_ error message/
[01:33] <coz_> I will do ti again write everything down for you
[01:33] <Keybuk> ok
[01:33] <coz_> i will do this on three machines
[01:33] <coz_> be bback in about an hour or so
[01:33] <Keybuk> gah
[01:33] <Keybuk> he went too quick
[01:34] <ajmitch> heh
[01:34] <HrdwrBoB> it's quite possble that devices get reordered or something
[01:34] <ajmitch> nice & polite
[01:34] <bddebian> heh
[01:34] <Keybuk> ajmitch: if you're still here in an hour, tell him I've gone to bed :p
[01:34] <ajmitch> I doubt I'll be here in an hour either
[01:34] <HrdwrBoB> I'll tell him
[01:34] <ajmitch> thanks
[01:35] <Keybuk> he can e-mail me at scott@ubuntu.com and I'll follow it up in the morning
[01:35] <robertj> Has there been any discussion about having gksu reask on a bad password?
[01:35] <Keybuk> I suspect it's just the "failed to update initramfs properly" bug
[01:35] <Keybuk> given he particularly mentions "current updates"
[01:35] <robertj> I've filed it upstream & noone has looked at it
[01:36] <Keybuk> ajmitch: heh, it's amazing just how many people really think that if something goes wrong then it's our fault for not testing it properly
[01:36] <Keybuk> and obviously, that everyone in the world must have the same problem
[01:36] <ajmitch> and obviously we're incompetent because of that
[01:36] <Keybuk> obviously
[01:40] <zul> wohoo... 2-2
[01:42] <jdub> http://www.x64bit.net/site/board/index.php?act=ST&f=73&t=2386&st=0#entry21462
[01:42] <bddebian> zul: What's that my upload to build failure ratio for lyx? :-)
[01:42] <jdub> ^ 'gnome-screensaver' ... ?! wonder how they managed that
[01:44] <zul> bddebian: nope..im watching th hockey game
[01:44] <bddebian> Ah :-)
[01:54] <Keybuk> hmm, my boyfriend is doing one of those "Come up with one word to describe each other" games ... and just described me as "Special"
[01:54] <Keybuk> I'm sure he meant well, but I *cannot* get the image of elmo thumping his chest and saying "spethial" out of my mind
[01:54] <Keybuk> :p
[01:59] <lifeless> hahah
[02:01] <Keybuk> elmo is responsible for so much
[02:07] <zul> wohoo..3-2
[02:29] <defendguin> jdong: i am having the same scaling problem with the core duo process as you were where did you get a ubuntu package for powernowd? 
[02:30] <defendguin> s/process/processor
[02:30] <jdong> defendguin: I hacked together my own from upstream tar.gz and current ubuntu diff.gz
[02:30] <jdong> it was on a livecd, btw... I don't actually own a core duo yet
[02:31] <coz_> Ok shortened the process by installing on only three machines and here are the results     http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/HKuTYA25.html
[02:31] <defendguin> you dont happen to know when 0.97 is going to make it into dapper?
[02:35] <crimsun> coz_: he went to bed. e-mail him at scott@ubuntu.com
[02:35] <coz_> crimsun, I can wait til tomorow
[02:36] <HrdwrBoB> yeah it's the mkinitramfs problem
[02:36] <HrdwrBoB> OFFS
[02:36] <HrdwrBoB> no, not interested in hearing how to fix it.
[03:24] <robertj> wowzers... deb http://oss.oracle.com/debian unstable main non-free
[03:27] <jdong> defendguin: I don't know if it's going to be. Keep an eye on the LP bug report on the issue; I hope a UVF is granted for it
[03:30] <defendguin> jdong: who gets to grant one for it?
[03:31] <jdong> defendguin: one of the big powers around here... not me :)
[03:31] <defendguin> jdong: big powers?
[03:31] <jdong> defendguin: like mdz
[03:32] <defendguin> this issue is going to be effecting a lot of new laptops and without it its gonna be sapping battery life
[03:34] <tseng> Mithrandir: are you in charge of "resolution on livecd is way off"
[03:35] <tseng> Mithrandir: i didnt even know my monitor could do this, 1024x768 centered in 'native' 1680x1050 boxed out
[03:35] <HrdwrBoB> defendguin: affecting
[03:36] <defendguin> HrdwrBoB: bug 30984
[03:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30984 in powernowd "(Dapper) kernel 2.6.15.15-686 breaks freq scaling on core duo" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30984
[03:36] <HrdwrBoB> yeah, I just meant it's affect not effect
[03:37] <HrdwrBoB> but, nm
[03:37] <defendguin> ??
[03:58] <klepas> >seen sabdfl
[03:58] <klepas> mhh
[03:58] <klepas> :(
[04:37] <bddebian> Should we close main bugs already assigned to someone?
[06:10] <jmg> ogra_ibook: ping
[06:13] <jmg> anyone run ubuntu on a macbok pro?
[06:17] <Burgundavia> jmg: mjg59 does
[06:18] <Burgundavia> jmg: however, it needs hacking to get it working, unless you use bootcamp
[06:20] <jmg> Burgundavia: any url to the hacking? we cant even make it boot with bootcamp.
[06:22] <Burgundavia> jmg: I haven't seen anything, sorry
[06:23] <jmg> Burgundavia: thx
[07:18] <robitaille> ping jdub 
[07:57] <pitti> Good morning
[07:57] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[07:57] <klepas> moin
[07:58] <ajmitch> hey dholbach 
[07:58] <dholbach> good morning
[08:11] <sivang> morning everybody
[08:13] <dholbach> who can all delete packages from the archive (apart from Kamion)? Is it the ubuntu-archive team?
[08:16] <infinity> dholbach: In theory, a number of us have access to do so, in practice, only Kamion's been doing archive cruft cleanup so far.
[08:17] <infinity> dholbach: I wouldn't have any issues with doing it myself, but I'd probably ask him for a 20 second run-down of "how not to disrupt Kamion's workflow" before I start breaking things.
[08:18] <dholbach> infinity: Yeah, I understand. I'm going to file a bug, and assign to ubuntu-archive - maybe Kamion then decides to teach all members of the team beforehand or do it himself. :-)
[08:18] <infinity> :)
[08:19] <dholbach> It's just that I remembered that somebody from last time's AptGetOrg run would have liked to get his packages removed and I'd like to do that.
[08:21] <Mithrandir> tseng: if you could attach the output of ddcprobe, your xorg.log and your xorg.conf to the bug report I might be able to tell you if it's the same bug or not, at least
[08:36] <jdub> robitaille: pong
[08:37] <robitaille> jdub:  could you put me back on planet.u.c?  It seems the feed is from for my blog...according to the feed link on the right-hand side of the page.  thanks.
[08:38] <robitaille> it seems the feed link was changed to some sort of "maintenance.html" link
[08:38] <jdub> robitaille: oh, that'd be blogspot breaking or something
[08:39] <jdub> robitaille: do you have a feedburner thingy?
[08:39] <robitaille> no.  you think it work better?
[08:39] <jdub> yeah
[08:39] <jdub> blogspot seems to give the finger to regular aggregators
[08:39] <jdub> it's really annoying :(
[08:40] <robitaille> ok.  Give me a second.  I have a feedburner account..or used to.  I'll dig it up and link to it
[08:40] <jdub> rock, ta
[08:43] <robitaille> jdub:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/robitaille
[08:43] <jdub> robitaille: *fixing*
[08:44] <highvoltage> ubuntu dapper beta sounds like one of those fraternaties in the american movies.
[08:45] <jdub> robitaille: oh, feedburner is atom now
[08:45] <robitaille> isn't supposed to be in alphabetic order?   beta-dapper-ubuntu?  b-d-u
[08:45] <robitaille> jdub:  maybe that's just the default? since blogspot is atom to start with.
[08:46] <robitaille> I'm sure there must be an option somewhere to put it in rss2 mode
[08:46] <robitaille> let me look
[08:46] <jdub> robitaille: is ok, i'll upgrade planet :)
[08:47] <robitaille> I found it.  so should I switch to rss2?
[08:47] <jdub> naw, no problem
[08:47] <robitaille> ok.
[08:49] <robitaille> jdub:  according to feeedburner, they serve the feeds using their SmartFeed(tm) technology that "Translates your feed on-the-fly into a format (RSS or Atom) compatible with your visitors' feed reader application".  So they claim planet.u.c is asking for atom :)
[08:50] <jdub> oh
[08:50] <jdub> i tried with my browser
[08:50] <jdub> i don't know what planet would get
[08:50] <jdub> i guess i should try :)
[08:50] <lifeless> robitaille: the sound like they are on crack.
[08:51] <lifeless> robitaille: what Vary: headers do they emit ?
[08:51] <Mithrandir> jdub: ACCEPT_HEADER = "application/atom+xml,application/rdf+xml,application/rss+xml,application/x-netcdf,application/xml;q=0.9,text/xml;q=0.2,*/*;q=0.1"
[08:51] <Mithrandir> is the default
[08:56] <robitaille> lifeless:  yes it seems they varies the feeds on the fly...at least according to their marketing-speak.    
[08:57] <lifeless> robitaille: yes, but do they emit a valid vary: header
[08:57] <pitti> mh21: moin moin Mischa
[08:58] <mh21> pitti: goedemorgen
[08:59] <robitaille> lifeless:  don't think so.  I'm guessing they look at the user-agent of the apps looking at the feed, and adjust accordingly the format.  Using firefox, it shows up as an atom feed that happens to be human readable according to the source.
[09:00] <lifeless> robitaille: if they don't emit a vary header, they are breaking rfc 2616 
[09:00] <lifeless> which would not surprise me
[09:02] <jdub> lifeless: a basic HEAD doesn't give me a vary header
[09:03] <lifeless> does it give cache-control ?
[09:04] <jdub> HEAD /robitaille HTTP/1.1
[09:04] <jdub> Host: feeds.feedburner.com
[09:04] <jdub> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
[09:04] <jdub> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:03:47 GMT
[09:04] <jdub> Server: Apache/2.0.54 (Debian GNU/Linux) mod_jk/1.2.15
[09:04] <jdub> Last-Modified: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:01:16 GMT
[09:04] <jdub> ETag: 1FwyXFdKLC001TWyzVczUpnAhCU
[09:04] <jdub> Content-Length: 15815
[09:04] <jdub> Content-Type: text/xml;charset=utf-8
[09:04] <jdub> 
[09:04] <lifeless> hmm, scary they have an etag in there, I wonder if they regenerate it for each feed style
[09:05] <lifeless> and yes, definately rfc2616 bustified
[09:05] <lifeless> thats a cachable response, which means different clients sharing a cache will get the same content 
[09:05] <Mithrandir> lifeless: Apache adds it by default unless they're just generating all their own headers.
[09:05] <lifeless> Mithrandir: I know.
[09:06] <lifeless> Mithrandir: and it can get it wrong because of that (I've seen some -nasty- stuff)
[09:06] <jamesh> Mithrandir: that etag doesn't look like one Apache would generate for static content
[09:06] <G0SUB_> jdub: can you kindly create a mailing list for ebuntu? It has been months since I requested
[09:06] <nomed> hi all
[09:07] <Mithrandir> jamesh: true dat
[09:07] <jamesh> Mithrandir: the static content etags from apache are made up of 3 dash separated hex strings
[09:07] <jamesh> size, mtime and inode, iirc
[09:07] <nomed> ogra_ibook: ping
[09:07] <nomed> one question .. does edubuntu autologin ?
[09:07] <jamesh> also, the etag is meant to be in quotes ...
[09:07] <jdub> G0SUB_: i should've replied again to check - you didn't give me an answer re: ebuntu-devel vs. ebuntu-users
[09:08] <nomed> i mean  the livecd ...
[09:09] <G0SUB_> jdub: kindly make one ebuntu-users for the time being
[09:09] <lifeless> anyway, feedburner seem rather useless for content negotiation compliance
[09:10] <jdub> G0SUB_: i also asked if you could confirm this with the CC, due to the similar name with edubuntu
[09:10] <jdub> G0SUB_: was that sorted?
[09:10] <jamesh> lifeless: maybe they assume that the feeds are accessed infrequently enough that they won't get cached
[09:10] <G0SUB_> jdub: I never got any mail from you wrt this issue
[09:10] <jamesh> lifeless: or that the format conversion isn't actually necessary, so it doesn't matter ...
[09:10] <jdub> G0SUB_: it was the same mail
[09:11] <G0SUB_> jdub: same as in?
[09:11] <lifeless> jamesh: its nonconformat any which way
[09:11] <jdub> G0SUB_: same as the users/devel q
[09:11] <G0SUB_> jdub: i didn't even get that mail
[09:11] <G0SUB_> jdub: else I would have replied quickly
[09:12] <jdub> G0SUB_: if you could bring it up with the CC, that'd be helpful - i don't want to cause confusion between the subprojects
[09:12] <G0SUB_> jdub: that's true. fine
[09:12] <G0SUB_> jdub: can you kindly resend the mail to me? it seems I never got it
[09:12] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: I have some a11y bugfixes for you, do you have any casper changes that you need to commit before I merge/update my tree here?
[09:13] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: I pushed something on friday, iirc.  You might want to merge those if you haven't.
[09:13] <TheMuso> Yeah doing so.
[09:17] <Lathiat> does ubiquity/espresso support ntfs resizing?
[09:20] <Burgundavia> Lathiat: as it uses partman, I assume so
[09:24] <G0SUB_> jdub: anyway, thanks for letting me know. I will get the issue solved
[09:26] <TheMuso> ...or not. Just found something else that needs attention. Will ping you when it is all ready to fetch.
[09:35] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: BTW, is there supposed to be /target in 22gnome_panel_data or /root?
[09:36] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: /root.
[09:36] <TheMuso> hmm. Right. You want me to fix that?
[09:37] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: I'll fix it myself, but thanks for noticing
[09:37] <TheMuso> Ok fine by me.
[09:38] <TheMuso> I won't be ready to push for a little while now, so np.
[09:42] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: fixed, pushed.
[09:42] <TheMuso> Ok thanks.
[10:02] <pitti> wb mh21
[10:03] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: does edubuntu have gdm-cdd.conf as an alternative?
[10:12] <nomed> that's what i really would figure out me too ...
[10:15] <nomed> Mithrandir: in case you know something more about this could you ping me ?
[10:15] <nomed> there is an issue in xubuntu about this .. it seems it doesn't use|find  that file
[10:21] <pitti> sivang: ping
[10:22] <mdke> morning all
[10:23] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Are you aware thata the /etc/hosts file in casper is formatted differently to the /etc/hosts file found on installed systems. If so, is this for a good reason?
[10:24] <pitti> hi mdke 
[10:24] <Mithrandir> nomed: yes, I know what the issue is, but janimo isn't around atm.
[10:24] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: it's not on purpose, no
[10:26] <sivang> pitti: pong
[10:26] <pitti> sivang: backuppc is yours, right?
[10:27] <sivang> pitti: hrm, no :)
[10:27] <sivang> pitti: why?
[10:27] <pitti> sivang: ok, nevermind then
[10:27] <nomed> Mithrandir: what i know is that gdm-cdd.conf --> in alternatives --> etc/xdg/xubuntu/gdm-cdd.conf
[10:27] <nomed> if i'm not wrong
[10:27] <nomed> the file is in xubuntu-default-settings ...
[10:28] <Mithrandir> nomed: it's a violation of a "should" in Debian policy.
[10:28] <Mithrandir>      In general, symbolic links within a top-level directory should be
[10:28] <Mithrandir>      relative, and symbolic links pointing from one top-level directory
[10:28] <Mithrandir>      into another should be absolute.  (A top-level directory is a
[10:28] <Mithrandir>      sub-directory of the root directory `/'.)
[10:29] <sivang> pitti: it's in perl last time I checked :)
[10:29] <sivang> *Was
[10:29] <pitti> sivang: I just wanted to discuss a proposal from Nafallo, but I mixed that up with HUB as it seems
[10:30] <doko> pitti: looks like we do have lot of printing fun with cups 1.2 ...
[10:30] <sivang> pitti: proposal about backups?
[10:30] <pitti> doko: oh, many new bug reports?
[10:30] <pitti> doko: I didn't yet find time to read bugs today
[10:31] <doko> pitti: please do, looks like network printing doesn't work anymore, and some config files are lost across upgrades
[10:31] <doko> I'm wading through the list for problems with specific printers
[10:32] <pitti> yes, of course I will deal with them, I just need to catch up with some security updates
[10:33] <j^> System->Printers | Right Click -> Properties => hangs, is a good one
[10:33] <Treenaks> j^: doesn't hang
[10:33] <Treenaks> j^: just takes ages
[10:34] <Treenaks> (at least, for me, using a JetDirect printer)
[10:34] <j^> Treenaks hang as in gui not responding, no repaint
[10:34] <j^> possible that it works after more than 2 minutes... 
[10:34] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: I ask because it was pointed out to me that one of the accessibility profiles wasn't working due to the way gnopernicus communicates with festival. Festival has an access list, and is set up to allow connections from the various forms of localhost, such as localhost.localdomain, 127.0.0.1, and localhost. However, it doesn't seem to like all these forms of localhost, as well as the ubuntu hostname all on one line in /etc/hosts. In ord
[10:34] <Treenaks> j^: yes. but that's only for a minute or so, then it starts responding again, and the properties window appears
[10:34] <j^> Treenaks still a bug
[10:34] <Treenaks> j^: true
[10:35] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: ".. in ord" ?
[10:35] <TheMuso> And the problem with modifying its config, is that it would need to possibly be fixed up again once installed.
[10:37] <TheMuso> In order to work properly, festival needs the first line of /etc/hosts to be all the localhost variants, with the second line with the ubuntu hostname. Is this feesable? I currently don't know how else to fix this, other than patching/modifying festival's config on live CD boot, baring in mind it may need to be changed again once Festival is installed.
[10:38] <infinity> TheMuso: Are you sure of this?  That seems broken to me.
[10:38] <TheMuso> infinity: What seems broken?
[10:38] <Treenaks> sounds like a bug in festival
[10:39] <infinity> TheMuso: That festival refuses to allow you to have anything else on line 1 of /etc/hosts.
[10:39] <neuralis> TheMuso: why does festival care? it shouldn't be parsing /etc/hosts.
[10:39] <TheMuso> neuralis: Festival runs as a server, and uses a TCP port for communication, so it has an access list to allow/deny connections to it.
[10:39] <infinity> TheMuso: I originally patched festival to allow access from localhost (and variants), but it shouldn't care if you ALSO have other things there...
[10:39] <TheMuso> infinity: I know. But on the live CD at least, it doesn't seem to work.
[10:40] <infinity> TheMuso: Do you have a livecd booted?
[10:40] <neuralis> themuso: so? it should be using gethostbyname, which works fine with multiple entries in the first line.
[10:40] <TheMuso> Indeed I do.
[10:40] <TheMuso> I have modified /etc/hosts however.
[10:40] <infinity> TheMuso: What does "host 127.0.0.1" return?
[10:40] <infinity> Oh.
[10:40] <TheMuso> I'll reboot.
[10:40] <infinity> Well, unmodify it. :)
[10:40] <TheMuso> Hold on.
[10:42] <Mithrandir> host localhost => "localhost has address 127.0.0.1"
[10:42] <Mithrandir> host 127.0.0.1 => "1.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer localhost."
[10:43] <infinity> Mithrandir: and the inverse?
[10:43] <infinity> Kay, then there's no reason festival should screw up on that, unless it's doing something very dumb.
[10:43] <TheMuso> infinity: Almost finished booting. I will run the gnome-speech festival driver in a terminal, and I will tell you what it says.
[10:44] <infinity> Note that this variable holds a regular expression which is matched
[10:44] <infinity> against whatever the client's IP address resolves to (or the address
[10:44] <infinity> itself, if address-to-name resolution fails). For local connections,
[10:44] <infinity> that is the first name in the '127.0.0.1' line of /etc/hosts; it may or
[10:44] <infinity> may not be 'localhost'.
[10:44] <infinity> (docs on server_access_list in festival)
[10:44] <TheMuso> Yeah I saw that.
[10:44] <infinity> Which sounds like it's just using a standard libc reverse lookup.
[10:44] <TheMuso> Note that this live CD I am using is not the latest daily.
[10:45] <Mithrandir> can't we just unset that and make it just listen to localhost?
[10:46] <infinity> Mithrandir: As in, make it allow from "any", but only bind to "lo"?
[10:46] <TheMuso> The festival server says: Rejected from ubuntu not in access list
[10:46] <Mithrandir> infinity: yes
[10:46] <TheMuso> That is when running festival-synthesis-driver in a terminal, and then running gnopernicus from the run dialog.
[10:46] <infinity> Mithrandir: If you want to fix it to work that way, go nuts.  I just took the path of least resistance when this bug came accross my desk, and it Worked For Me.
[10:46] <infinity> TheMuso: And the output of "host 127.0.0.1"?
[10:47] <TheMuso> 1.0.0.1271.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer localhost.
[10:48] <Mithrandir> I'm wondering if it's "localhost" vs "localhost."
[10:49] <infinity> Well, it is, specifically, claiming to be getting a connection from "ubuntu"...
[10:49] <infinity> Which is just plain wrong, no matter how you slice it.
[10:49] <Mithrandir> first name on the 127.1 line in /etc/hosts _is_ ubuntu, though
[10:49] <infinity> Err, it is?
[10:50] <infinity> It should be the LAST name.
[10:50] <TheMuso> Yeah it is.
[10:50] <infinity> It is on the installed system.
[10:50] <Mithrandir> actually, for the installed system it seems to be 127.0.0.1       localhost
[10:50] <Mithrandir> 127.0.1.1       ravel.hpc2n.umu.se.hpc2n.umu.se ravel.hpc2n.umu.se
[10:51] <Mithrandir> (this machine was installed with flight-5, iirc)
[10:51] <infinity> Oh, cool.  We switched to the "use another loopback address" method.
[10:51] <infinity> I do prefer that one.  Much cleaner.
[10:51] <infinity> We could do that on the livecd as well, and I wouldn't complain.
[10:51] <infinity> RFCs do seem to claim that 127.0.0.1 should only ever resolve to "localhost" afterall, though no one ever seems to follow that.
[10:52] <Mithrandir> I would just like to not change this every second month.
[10:52] <infinity> I say "do what d-i does".
[10:53] <Mithrandir> cat > /root/etc/hosts <<EOF
[10:53] <Mithrandir> 127.0.0.1 localhost
[10:53] <Mithrandir> 127.0.1.1 ubuntu
[10:53] <Mithrandir> (etc)
[10:53] <Mithrandir> happy?
[10:53] <infinity> That looks lovely.
[10:53] <infinity> And should make festival happier.
[10:53] <TheMuso> Thanks guys. Much appreciated.
[10:53] <infinity> And some RFC nuts.
[10:54] <infinity> (The same RFC nuts we upset by using "localhost.localdomain" for a while)
[10:54] <infinity> Thankfully, we killed that one.
[10:54] <janimo> pitti, hi
[10:54] <pitti> hi janimo 
[10:55] <janimo> indeed as I learned lately minicmd is obsoleted
[10:55] <janimo> so no need for it in main
[10:55] <pitti> ok, cool
[10:55] <janimo> sorry, should have removed it from the wiki
[10:55] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: committed, pushed
[10:55] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Thanks.
[10:55] <pitti> janimo: I moved it to the obsolete queue, thanks
[10:56] <Mithrandir> janimo: hiya, why do you manage /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf with the alternatives system?
[10:56] <pitti> janimo: ah, the xubuntu i386 live just finished downloading - I wanna see it myself, I'm curious :)
[10:57] <janimo> pitti, cool :)
[10:57] <janimo> it does not autologin
[10:57] <janimo> user ubuntu, no password
[10:57] <janimo> a bug we have to figure out
[10:57] <janimo> Mithrandir: yep
[10:58] <janimo> it works in the installed system
[10:58] <nomed> janimo: see Mithrandir :)
[10:58] <pitti> Riddell: hm, do you still want both wlassistant and knetworkmanager in main?
[10:58] <janimo> also on the liveCD the theme is taken from that file
[10:58] <Mithrandir> janimo: "yep" is not a very good answer to a "why" question. :-P
[10:58] <janimo> Mithrandir: oh ._why_ do we manage that with it
[10:58] <janimo> just read it again ;)
[10:58] <janimo> well that's how we did it at the beginning whe edubuntu did it too
[10:59] <Mithrandir> janimo: I know why it doesn't work on the live cd, but I want to know the reason for you doing it that way before I go about fixing it.
[10:59] <janimo> is that no longer te case for edunbntu
[10:59] <Mithrandir> no idea, ogra_ibook hasn't graced me with an answer yet.
[10:59] <janimo> both edu and xubuntu provide that file
[10:59] <janimo> and any other derivative couldin the future to override gdm.conf
[10:59] <janimo> if you have ant cleaner method I am fine with it
[11:00] <Mithrandir> "conflicts"? :-)
[11:00] <Mithrandir> I somehow doubt edubuntu uses alternatives for it since the live cd works for them.
[11:02] <joelbryan> hi, is there a wiki page about supported files like zip, rar, mpg, avi, wmv, etc??
[11:03] <joelbryan> in fresh dapper install?
[11:03] <nomed> it seems edubuntu installs it in etc/gdm 
[11:04] <janimo> Mithrandir: I'll have to check edubuntu out then
[11:04] <Kamion> Lathiat: to correct Burgundavia slightly, while we do use partman for some things, we don't use it for resizing (gparted/qtparted, depending on your frontend, is responsible for that)
[11:04] <Kamion> Lathiat: happily, gparted supports calling out to ntfsresize
[11:05] <janimo> Mithrandir, hmm Conflicts could do, if we think there will be no other packages providing that
[11:05] <mvo> Kinnison: the current unstable g-p-m has a dbus command to stop it from going to inactive sleep  (for the use-cache see #40697). do you think it's worth backporting it?
[11:05] <janimo> nomed, edubuntu uses no alternative then?
[11:05] <Mithrandir> janimo: if provide a virtual package, say, gdm-custom-config and provide/conflict/replace it.
[11:05] <nomed> i guess i got what's the problem
[11:05] <Mithrandir> janimo: get edubuntu-artwork or whatever to do the same.
[11:05] <janimo> Mithrandir: ok sounds cleaner
[11:06] <nomed> it the test -f stuff true ?
[11:06] <mvo> Kamion: what can we do about #40829? IIRC the language-chooser in d-i had a similar problem in the past
[11:06] <mvo> bug 40829
[11:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40829 in language-selector "kurds are not turk" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40829
[11:06] <nomed> janimo: edubuntu doesn't use alternatives ...
[11:06] <Mithrandir> nomed: I know why it happens, that's not a problem.
[11:06] <janimo> Mithrandir: btw what is the problem?
[11:06] <janimo> nomed, that is sneaky, ogra did not tell me he dropped alternatives :)
[11:07] <Mithrandir> janimo: -f follows symlinks, you have an absolute symlink where you should have had a relative one.
[11:07] <Mithrandir> janimo: since the -f call is not chrooted.
[11:08] <Kamion> Riddell: please fix your ubiquity working copy and dpkg-source flags as I asked yesterday, or else let me do ubiquity uploads; the spurious diffs are getting annoying
[11:08] <Kamion> Riddell: also if you'd let me review that change first I could have had an opportunity to fix its error checking
[11:08] <janimo> Mithrandir: thanks. I couldn't have figured that out
[11:08] <janimo> but I'll drop alternatives then, and talk to ogra to use conflicts
[11:09] <Kamion> Riddell: and your bzr committer ids have gone back to "Ubuntu LiveCD user <ubuntu@ubuntu>"
[11:11] <Kamion> mvo: dunno, it's ku_TR, but d-i's localechooser just refers to it as Kurdish or Kurd
[11:13] <Mithrandir> janimo: 'k, care to close 40767 when you've done that?
[11:14] <janimo> Mithrandir: sure
[11:15] <kagou> i need help to create a patch for apache2-common. Is there anyone who have time to help me ?!
[11:16] <janimo> Mithrandir: out of curiosity does using squashfs vs having the image non-compressed require more RAM at runtime?
[11:16] <Mithrandir> janimo: I'd think not, at least not much, why?
[11:16] <Mithrandir> janimo: it makes pulling the image off the cd much quicker, at least
[11:17] <janimo> just curious, I was wondering if xubuntu live would need less ram if it was not compressed
[11:17] <janimo> since the live is under 400M
[11:20] <Mithrandir> janimo: your usplash progress bar seems broken, at least on the live cd?
[11:22] <janimo> Mithrandir: no idea why. It may be the usplash I uploaded yesterday
[11:22] <janimo> is the beta live CD usplash you're seeing?
[11:22] <janimo> or latest
[11:22] <Mithrandir> no, current from this morning
[11:23] <janimo> works here on an installed system
[11:23] <janimo> and how is it broken?
[11:23] <Mithrandir> it never progresses.
[11:23] <janimo> the only things I saw broken was when usplash stops and only text scorlls
[11:23] <Mithrandir> stays all dark blue.
[11:23] <janimo> ah, I never saw that
[11:23] <infinity> Got the index wrong?
[11:24] <janimo> couldbe that yesterdays usplash (uses new colours) ingterferes with it
[11:24] <janimo> I'll check it out too
[11:24] <nomed> janimo: did that guy send the palette too ?
[11:24] <janimo> nomed, hmm he pointed me to the usplash image on the wiki
[11:24] <janimo> nothing more.
[11:25] <nomed> janimo: i check if i can easly extract the palette with gimp
[11:25] <janimo> nomed: thanks
[11:25] <nomed> if not it means there is something wrong
[11:25] <nomed> link ?
[11:28] <nomed> janimo: then ...
[11:28] <nomed> could you take a look on xfce-mcs-manager ?
[11:28] <nomed> the panel .. it's driving me crazy
[11:28] <nomed> i removed all the icons it's using
[11:28] <nomed> and they are still there :/
[11:29] <nomed> i guess we should make it themeable
[11:29] <nomed> as the icons are almost ready (it seems)
[11:32] <janimo> nomed: ->xubuntu
[11:32] <dholbach> Kamion: I'd like to get tkklasse-{doc,server,client} (and their binary packages, which have the same names) removed from the archive - shall I file a bug for that and subscribe ubuntu-archive? is that ok for you?
[11:33] <nomed> janimo: dhooo
[11:34] <nomed> janimo: he just resized the original image .. 
[11:34] <nomed> the circle it's not a circle anymore ..
[11:35] <janimo> nomed -> #xubuntu :)
[11:45] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: I'm planning an casper upload soonish so if you have fixes for me, tell me.
[11:50] <doko> janimo: openoffice.org-gtk is in the archive
[11:51] <doko> infinity, Keybuk, Kamion: please process the NEW libglib-java binary, so cairo-java can build
[11:54] <janimo> doko, already in the xubuntu seed ;)
[11:54] <janimo> thanks
[11:55] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Ok. I may be longer here than I first thought. Just gtting my head around some interesting parts of gconf. :)
[11:55] <TheMuso> And having to adjust some of the file to suit.
[11:56] <TheMuso> And I still need to test my changes.
[11:58] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: was that "I think I have a fix in two hours" or was it "don't wait for me, I'll catch the next upload"?
[11:58] <infinity> doko: main or universe?
[11:58] <TheMuso> That was a don't wait.
[11:59] <Kamion> dholbach: yes
[11:59] <Kamion> dholbach: (give a reason in the bug report, obviously)
[11:59] <Kamion> doko: hadn't got round to NEW processing this morning
[12:00] <infinity> Right, source is in universe, the binaries are going there too.
[12:00] <doko> infinity, Kamion: universe. yeah, I like the "get a series of depending packages through NEW" game ;-)
[12:00] <dholbach> Kamion: ok, merci.
[12:00] <Kamion> doko: please fix its /usr/share/doc/ directory
[12:00] <infinity> Kamion: I'm on it.
[12:00] <Kamion> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2006-04-23 21:39:21 ./usr/share/doc/glib-java-0.2.4/
[12:00] <Kamion> infinity: ok
[12:00] <infinity> Or, I'm not, if you're already reading it. :)
[12:00] <Kamion> infinity: no, go ahead
[12:00] <Kamion> doko needs to fix the above, but it can be processed first if he promises to do it :)
[12:01] <doko> Kamion: promised ;-)
[12:02] <infinity> And now to accept it with 59 seconds to go before the publisher run.
[12:02] <infinity> doko: There you go.
[12:02] <Kamion> publisher run is at :03 ...
[12:03] <infinity> Yes, and it was :02:01 when I typed that. :)
[12:03] <Kamion> oh, heh, my IRC client said 11:01 so I guess one of us is a bit off
[12:05] <Diziet> infinity: m-f-l-all build-dep> Damn, I see I edited control.template but didn't regenerate control.
[12:05] <janimo> dholbach: is you or seb the one who's more likely to look at bug #40122
[12:05] <janimo> ?
[12:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40122 in goffice "Patch: build 2 libgoffice variants (gnome and gtk)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40122
[12:06] <Diziet> infinity: Thanks for cleaning it up for me.
[12:06] <dholbach> janimo: I set it on my (growing) TODO list. :)
[12:07] <janimo> dholbach: thanks :)
[12:09] <_ion>   * Brown paper bag fix: add a missing semicolon in the build-udebs rule.
[12:09] <_ion> What's the meaning of the phrase "brown paper bag"?
[12:10] <Mithrandir> _ion: it's a bug which makes you want to put a brown paper bag over your head, or disappear
[12:10] <pitti> _ion: a bug one is ashamed of
[12:10] <jono> hi all
[12:10] <_ion> Hehe, ok.
[12:10] <jono> who looks after the artwork in ubuntu?
[12:12] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks for the UVF exception.
[12:12] <dholbach> jono: Which part of it do you mean?
[12:13] <jono> dholbach, I need the default wallpaper without the beta text so I can screenshot the official book
[12:13] <jono> can someone mail me it?
[12:13] <dholbach> jono: what's your mail address?
[12:13] <jono> dholbach, jono AT jonobacon DOT org
[12:13] <ogra> Mithrandir, janimo, whats the problem ? 
[12:14] <janimo> ogra, xubunt live does not autologin in gdm
[12:14] <janimo> I still used the alternatives method for gdm-conf
[12:14] <ogra> dont you use the gdm-cdd.conf ? 
[12:15] <janimo> yes, but using upfdate-alternatives as it initially was
[12:15] <janimo> I see you changes edubuntu to directly copy it to etc/gdm
[12:15] <janimo> now I do that too
[12:15] <ogra> changed ? 
[12:15] <ogra> edubuntu never had the alternative 
[12:15] <janimo> did not edubuntu use alternatives for that?
[12:15] <ogra> not yet
[12:16] <janimo> well it does not have to at all
[12:16] <ogra> that was a quick and dirty addition short before a flight release iirc, i'd likle to have an alternative as we initially wanted
[12:17] <janimo> alternatives are bad as just seen on xubuntu live
[12:17] <janimo> Tollef suggested we both add that file 
[12:17] <Mithrandir> janimo: that's possible to work around.
[12:17] <janimo> and conflict on each other's package
[12:17] <Mithrandir> ogra: why do you want to use alternatives?
[12:18] <janimo> Mithrandir: you said I'd do conflict, alreday done that ;)
[12:18] <janimo> ogra, I added this to xubuntu-deafult-settings  Provides: and Conflicts: on gdm-config-derivative
[12:18] <ogra> Mithrandir, i want to ship xubuntu as a low footprint alternative for ltsp atr some point
[12:19] <ogra> so they cant conflict 
[12:20] <Mithrandir> hmm
[12:21] <ogra> i'm happy about every other suggestion, but conflicts dont work, many people already use xubuntu on their edubuntu systems
[12:21] <Mithrandir> it's just the artwork, though.
[12:22] <ogra> yes, we should teach gdm to accept a theme without having to replace the whole config :
[12:23] <Mithrandir> hmm, seb's not around.
[12:23] <Mithrandir> dholbach: around?
[12:23] <janimo> ogra, jbailey had some plans of making the gdm.conf file use layered cfg files
[12:23] <janimo> but dunno what came out of that
[12:23] <dholbach> Mithrandir: yes.
[12:24] <janimo> than you could just have a file in addition not instead of gdmconf
[12:24] <janimo> a lot nicer imho
[12:24] <Mithrandir> dholbach: what do you think of the idea of having gdm.conf-cdd just be an override, so anything not set in gdm.conf-cdd will get picked up from gdm.conf (and then fallback)?
[12:25] <Mithrandir> actually, some sort of /etc/gdm/gdm.conf.d where each is put on top of the previous one.
[12:25] <janimo> Mithrandir: needs gdm hacaking
[12:25] <dholbach> Mithrandir: It sounds like a good idea to me, but if you don't mind I'd mail seb about his opinion before (as he wanted to do the gdm 2.14.2 update as well).
[12:25] <Mithrandir> dholbach: go ahead.
[12:26] <dholbach> Mithrandir: He's more intimate with gdm than I am.
[12:26] <Mithrandir> janimo: nope.  It needs a tool to merge gdm configurations.
[12:26] <Mithrandir> (which could be a generic tool, since the gdm.conf file format is an .ini file format.
[12:26] <Mithrandir> )
[12:26] <janimo> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gdm-list/2006-March/msg00019.html
[12:26] <janimo> ah ok.
[12:26] <ogra> Mithrandir, thats eft material
[12:27] <ogra> i already discussed the gdm stuff with seb
[12:27] <dholbach> It sounds like that to me too.
[12:27] <ogra> gdm-cdd.conf is an interim solution until gdm is capable to handle that batter
[12:27] <ogra> *better
[12:30] <Mithrandir> hmm
[12:30] <Mithrandir> I could probably whip up a tool to do this quite quickly.
[12:34] <ogra> a wrapper ? 
[12:36] <Mithrandir> import ConfigParser, sys
[12:36] <Mithrandir> f = open("/etc/gdm/factory-gdm.conf", "r")
[12:36] <Mithrandir> c.readfp(f)
[12:36] <Mithrandir> c.read(sys.argv[1:] )
[12:36] <Mithrandir> c.write(sys.stdout)
[12:36] <Mithrandir> called with /etc/gdm/gdm.conf /etc/gdm/conf.d/*.conf or something along that.
[12:37] <Mithrandir> and then writing to /var/lib/gdm/gdm.conf which gdm gets taught to use if available.
[12:37] <sivang> has anyone seen sladen?
[12:38] <Riddell> sivang: he's skipped the country, remind me to phone the hosts again in half an hour to the them to press the on switch
[12:38] <mjg59> Given a binary, is there any way to change the names of the symbols within it?
[12:38] <sivang> Riddell: sure :)
[12:41] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I included your proposal and sent it to Sb.
[12:41] <Mithrandir> dholbach: thanks.  He responds even though he's on vac?
[12:41] <dholbach> Mithrandir: He looked at some bugs some minutes ago, so I daresay yes.
[12:42] <Mithrandir> dholbach: heh. :-)
[12:42] <dholbach> If he doesn't stop triaging bugs on vac, I'll rent a car and visit his place to make sure he's doing proper vacation. :)
[12:42] <Mithrandir> just take all his machines
[12:43] <dholbach> Mithrandir: good thinking.
[12:44] <ogra> hum, kmplayer in main ? doesnt that depend on mplayer ? 
[12:54] <Riddell> yay!
[12:54] <Riddell> ogra: no, it uses xine
[12:54] <ogra> heh, why isnt it called kdexine then :)
[12:55] <ogra> (i just looked at the deps)
[12:55] <Kamion> huh? kmplayer is in universe
[12:56] <Riddell> ogra: mplayer backend was the first it had, but we don't build it
[12:56] <Riddell> Kamion: it's just got main inclusion approval
[12:56] <ogra> Kamion, it just was approved
[12:56] <Kamion> ah, I wish people would say that clearly
[12:56] <Kamion> rather than e.g. giving archive admins heartattacks
[12:57] <Riddell> ogra: stop killing Kamion, we need him
[12:57] <ogra> Kamion, i trust pitti, didnt know you'd jump on it directly ... just was curious why it got approved
[12:57] <pitti> I was quite afraid of the name 'kmplayer' too :)
[12:57] <pitti> but it really just uses gstreamer and our main libxine
[12:57] <Kamion> ogra: I didn't jump on it directly
[12:58] <Riddell> Kamion: kde ubiquity has a broken include line in it, can I upload a fix?
[12:58] <Kamion> Riddell: no, please send me a diff, I have stuff pending
[12:58] <Kamion> s/diff/branch/
[12:58] <Riddell> Kamion: it's in my branch ready for merging
[12:58] <Kamion> and we need to slow down the uploads for a while
[12:59] <Riddell> yeah, I just want something I can recommend beta testers to upgrade to
[12:59] <Kamion> well, I'd like to arrive there by something that's tested before upload ;-)
[01:00] <Kamion> and I want to sort out partitioning errors properly
[01:00] <Kamion> Riddell: you don't do partman progress in the install progress bar yet, do you? (by my reading of kde-ui)
[01:01] <Riddell> Kamion: I think I do
[01:01] <Kamion> bzr: ERROR: Revision {jriddell@ubuntu.com-20060424105053-22abf4d6794faebf} not present in 39/changelog-20051205083553-77a1825ffd84cf56.
[01:02] <seb128> Mithrandir: ping?
[01:03] <Mithrandir> seb128: pong
[01:03] <Kamion> Riddell: I'm struggling to see where - neither confirm_partitioning_dialog nor error_dialog have any handling for it; can you point me to the code responsible.
[01:04] <Kamion> ?
[01:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: dholbach pinged me about some gdm changes you want to do
[01:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: want to do that for dapper?
[01:04] <Mithrandir> seb128: it'd be nice, yes.
[01:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: you read the mail that jbailey sent upstream?
[01:04] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes, but I was pondering doing this without touching gdm code for dapper at least.
[01:05] <Kamion> Riddell: (having to fetch your branch from scratch because bzr doesn't recover well from pull errors; will be a while)
[01:05] <seb128> you want to edit some conffiles, doesn't look a good idea to me
[01:06] <janimo> mjg59: objcopy has some operations to change symbol names but not sure how flexible
[01:06] <janimo> eg --prefix-symbol
[01:06] <HiddenWolf> seb128: I'm experiencing a bug with your rhythmbox 0.9.4 package, should I file it?
[01:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: nope, I was thinkig teaching gdm to look for /var/lib/gdm/gdm.conf and use that if it exists.  That file will be created with a python script similar to:
[01:06] <Mithrandir> import ConfigParser, sys
[01:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: upstream gdm already does have user config overwritting system config, adding an another file between both should be easy
[01:06] <Mithrandir> f = open("/etc/gdm/factory-gdm.conf", "r")
[01:06] <Mithrandir> c.readfp(f)
[01:06] <Mithrandir> c.read(["/etc/gdm/gdm.conf", "/etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom", "/etc/gdm/conf.d/*"] )
[01:06] <seb128> HiddenWolf: upstream
[01:06] <Mithrandir> c.write(sys.stdout)
[01:08] <janimo> Mithrandir: for edu/xubuntu gdm is alreday passed --config 
[01:08] <janimo> that could be used
[01:08] <seb128> Mithrandir: why not teaching him than /usr/share/gdm/cdd.conf keys overwritte default settings by example?
[01:08] <Riddell> Kamion: we have a progress bar after the autopartitioning page, but are you talking about the logic that delays the partitioning to the summary page?
[01:08] <janimo> seb128, gdm already does that for gdm.custom right?
[01:08] <Mithrandir> seb128: because it'd be nicest for casper if I could just drop my settings in a file which I knew would be read last and thereby not having to do the hacks I do.
[01:08] <Kamion> Riddell: the latter, yes
[01:09] <seb128> upstream atm uses /usr/share/gdm/default.conf for default value (that we still move to /etc/gdm/gdm.conf to avoid breaking upgrades atm) and overwritte with user config which is /etc/default/gdm.custom-conf
[01:09] <Riddell> Kamion: yeah, I've not done that yet, thanks for the pointers to the relevant places
[01:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: as a nice bonus, we would be able to remove distro defaults from /etc/gdm completely.
[01:10] <seb128> Mithrandir: that's what the custom conf is, not a complete definition but just some key to overwritte
[01:10] <Riddell> Kamion: when you have a moment could you promote kmplayer source and kmplayer-base & kmplayer-konq-plugins binary packages to main?
[01:10] <seb128> Mithrandir: upstream move distro default to /usr/share/gdm
[01:10] <Mithrandir> seb128: but we don't?
[01:10] <seb128> Mithrandir: we still use /etc because I don't know what to do with modifed configs used atm
[01:10] <seb128> no
[01:10] <seb128> gdmsetup used to edt /etc/gdm/gconf.conf directly
[01:11] <Mithrandir> move it to -custom if it's modified?
[01:11] <seb128> before they creates a new custom-conf to edit and move the distro config to /usr
[01:11] <Mithrandir> mm
[01:11] <seb128> the issue is that people using dapper already have a -custom written by gdmsetup
[01:11] <seb128> that's why we want to have the list
[01:11] <Mithrandir> ok
[01:12] <Kamion> Riddell: I'll do a batch of main promotion later today
[01:12] <seb128> /usr/share/gdm/default.conf, then /etc/gdm/gdm.cong (which may have previous user config), then /etc/gdm/gdm.custom-conf
[01:12] <Kamion> I like to do these things in batches rather than one-at-a-time
[01:12] <seb128> we could put a gdm.cdd-conf somewhere to the list
[01:12] <seb128> janimo: right, that's what gdmsetup edits atm
[01:12] <mvo> Riddell: there seems to be some problems during a upgrade from breezy->dapper. I have a person claming that his kontact adressbook was purged after the upgrade. should I file a bug about it? (the original mail is in german)
[01:12] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'd like to be able to just drop a gdm.conf fragment in a directory.
[01:13] <Riddell> mvo: yeah please
[01:14] <Riddell> mvo: although a local kontact address book would be in ~/.kde so it can't be purged
[01:14] <mvo> Riddell: yeah, that is what I thought, I'll ask for clarification 
[01:14] <seb128> Mithrandir: that's what we planned with jbailey
[01:14] <seb128> Mithrandir: we just need to extend the custom-conf logic to an extra cdd-conf or something
[01:14] <Riddell> mvo: although nothing stopping kontact from deleteing the address book if it was feeling evil
[01:15] <Mithrandir> seb128: if I get you the patch today, is there a chance of having it dapperable?
[01:16] <seb128> Mithrandir: I would really like to be able to move /etc/gdm/gdm.conf to /usr for dapper and having a custom cdd conf yep, that would make things much easier for upgrades by example
[01:20] <darkmatter> mornin' all
[01:21] <darkmatter> dapper has a bit of a problem after the lates pango updates
[01:21] <darkmatter> fonts in gtk+ 2x are broken
[01:22] <darkmatter> its fine if you don't try to change them... but if you do they revert to sans
[01:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: do you think upstream would scream if I reversed the direction the files are read in too?  Reading backwards seems slightly wrong.
[01:23] <darkmatter> the only fonts that even display a preview are sans, serif and monospace
[01:24] <Riddell> pitti: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/678581
[01:24] <Riddell> (not sure if I've already pointed that out to you)
[01:24] <pitti> Riddell: oh, no, you didn't
[01:25] <pitti> Riddell: feel free to fix (s/rm/rm -rf should do), otherwise I'll do it when I find some time
[01:25] <seb128> Mithrandir: I think that should be fine. Did you read upstream reply to jbailey with all the details on how to do what we want? http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gdm-list/2006-March/msg00022.html
[01:25] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes.
[01:25] <pitti> Riddell: oh, rather, rmdir || true
[01:25] <Mithrandir> seb128: it's insane to have a 2.5kLOC C file to read a configuration though, but I guess I'll have to make do with that. :-)
[01:26] <seb128> Mithrandir: yeah, you have, we are not going to change that :p
[01:28] <doko> Riddell, pitti: no it should be rm -rf, the package creates these files on installation
[01:29] <Riddell> doko: and if the user decides to put something else in there?  that'll killan changes
[01:29] <Riddell> kill any
[01:30] <doko> Riddell: doesn't cups copy the configured ppd anyway?
[01:30] <pitti> doko: it does
[01:32] <doko> darkmatter: works fine for me.
[01:39] <Kamion> Riddell: KDE convention is to have the OK button on the left, isn't it?
[01:39] <Kamion> I'm writing a sort-of-generic question_dialog helper for kde-ui to match one I wrote for gtkui, just checking on button ordering
[01:42] <Riddell> Kamion: yes, but using QMessageBox.question() is the better way to do it
[01:42] <Kamion> Riddell: I am using QMessageBox.question
[01:42] <Riddell> ah, cool
[01:42] <Kamion> Riddell: but it needs to be called from components so I need a shim, and the argument ordering for that shim obviously needs to be one way or the other
[01:43] <Kamion> thanks
[01:58] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: did you talk lateky with the xkb plugin dev?
[01:58] <janimo> lately
[01:58] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, nop, but I've played with the xklavier lib, we definitely can do something :)
[01:58] <jcole> how does ubuntu/debian find the latest versions of packages? it it done manually by word of mouth or via automation? i found this, but i don't think it could be useful with all the missing packages and broken watches -> http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/no_watch.html
[01:59] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: excellent :)
[01:59] <jcole> also on dw (since they do somekind of automated version tracking), i noticed that some dapper packages are "up to date" while some are behind the "latest" stable and development versions -> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ubuntu
[01:59] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, I'll try to have something that works this week
[01:59] <jcole> got curious because some guy on slashdot was complaining about gnucash being "behind" in dapper
[02:00] <azeem> jcole: note that there was an upstream version freeze several months ago
[02:03] <jcole> azeem: ok
[02:03] <jcole> azeem: how are versions of packages chosen?
[02:04] <azeem> jcole: this depends on a couple of things, like what version is in Debian, whether that package is in main or universe etc.
[02:04] <Kamion> sometimes by watching release notices, sometimes by whatever happens to be in Debian, sometimes by other automation, and all of that modified by what we know about a package (sometimes the latest version isn't the best for one reason or another)
[02:04] <azeem> it seems dapper ships gnucash-1.8.12, which is the latest stable release
[02:09] <jcole> Kamion: is a "release notice" automated? or is it manual via word of mouth (from chatting, the net, email, etc.)?
[02:10] <azeem> jcole: there is a semi-automatic watch system implemented in Debian which scans for new upstream releases at the expected location.  Google for watch files and dehs
[02:10] <jcole> azeem: i posted this link earlier -> http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/no_upstream.html
[02:10] <azeem> right
[02:10] <Kamion> jcole: many projects send out mails to announcement lists
[02:11] <Kamion> jcole: for the packages we care about, the people responsible generally watch those announcement lists
[02:11] <jcole> azeem: but it can't be very useful since there are thousands of packages with no or broken watches
[02:11] <Kamion> jcole: for the packages we don't care about, we generally defer to Debian, in which cases the Debian maintainer generally watches those announcement lists
[02:11] <azeem> jcole: it's useful for those packages with a good watch file at least
[02:12] <Kamion> jcole: updating packages is not automatic anyway - it needs a developer who knows about the packages to do the job - so it's usually not a big deal that finding out about the new upstream release isn't automatic either
[02:15] <jcole> Kamion azeem: thanks for the info
[02:22] <doko> Kamion: cairo-java_1.0.3-0ubuntu2 did have the same docdir problem as glib-java, fixed in cairo-java_1.0.3-0ubuntu3
[02:22] <coz_> Ok I will pastebin this here now and later Please read this - http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/paYKVE51.html
[02:31] <zakame> hi all
[02:31] <zakame> elmo: ping
[02:42] <Riddell> pitti: cups 1.2 rc2 plus mh21's patches seem to work well for me
[02:42] <pitti> Riddell: great!
[02:43] <Riddell> I'll show the patches to the kdeprint maintainer, who will probably find plenty wrong with them, but we should be good for dapper
[02:50] <zul> heylo
[02:58] <Riddell> pitti: I had reports of an error when trying to print saying "Error from CUPS: ok-successful"
[02:59] <Riddell> pitti: my e-mail archive is broken so I can't get the exact error but does that sound like anything you recognise?
[02:59] <pitti> Riddell: no, that doesn't tell me anything; the 'Error from CUPS:' is a KDE string or a libcups one?
[02:59] <pitti> Riddell: it looks like a bogus error message
[03:00] <Riddell> that'll be a KDE string, the "ok-successful" will be from cups
[03:00] <pitti> right, ok-successful is libcups
[03:00] <pitti> not sure, maybe the string changed in 1.2
[03:00] <Riddell> I've not seen the error myself, it was from people testing your packages on people.u.c
[03:00] <pitti> does that actually break anything?
[03:00] <Riddell> no, didn't seem to
[03:08] <zakame> hmm, whyare my uploadsstill aren't showing up? :(
[03:08] <Kamion> zakame: can you give me a package name to look up?
[03:08] <j^> can someone look at bug #40214, i extraced 2 changes from upstream cvs
[03:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40214 in binutils "ld checks for libs in wrong order. it should be inline with ld.so and check configured folders first." [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40214
[03:09] <zakame> Kamion: gnome-ppp for one, touched fo DhIconCacheChanges
[03:09] <Kamion> 15:15:06 DEBUG   Could not find a person for <zakame@ubuntu.com (Zak B. Elep)> or that person has no preferred email address set in launchpad
[03:09] <Kamion> zakame: you need to set a preferred e-mail address in Launchpad
[03:10] <zakame> now that's strange, I've had that set for a while, it hasn't bothered my previous uploads until this...
[03:11] <zakame> I'll update anyway, just to besure
[03:11] <Kamion> either that or its e-mail address parsing wants "Zak B. Elep <zakame@ubuntu.com>" rather than "zakame@ubuntu.com (Zak B. Elep)" maybe?
[03:13] <ogra> wasnt there a problem with dots in the names ? iirc crimsun had a simillar probllem once
[03:13] <ogra> -l
[03:13] <zakame> hmmm
[03:14] <zakame> just defaulted to my other address, and uploaded a fix for arson
[03:14] <Kamion> if so, file an LP bug, /products/qprocd
[03:15] <zakame> ok, thanks! =)
[03:15] <ogra> Kamion, iirc that predates LP and was a gpg problem ...
[03:15] <ogra> but crimsun will know ...
[03:23] <janimo> Mithrandir: so how should gdm-cdd.conf be provided after all?
[03:23] <Riddell> pitti: do you have mh21's e-mail address?
[03:25] <mvo> doko: ping
[03:25] <doko> mvo: pong
[03:26] <ogra> janimo, lets wait what of the changes they can get into dapper
[03:26] <ogra> i'm sure Mithrandir will ping us :)
[03:29] <janimo> ogra, btw how did edubuntu users who used xfce cope with this gdm.conf issue?
[03:29] <ogra> not at all
[03:29] <ogra> they dont need to for ltsp ;) we dont use gdm
[03:30] <ogra> and ldm just picks the default system XSession
[03:30] <janimo> oh so you said you prefer not to conflict for the other settings in that package not gdm then?
[03:30] <ogra> yep
[03:30] <janimo> I see
[03:31] <ogra> because it indeed breaks if you use a workstation variant with multiple users 
[03:31] <janimo> true
[03:31] <ogra> (where one ises gnome and the other xfce)
[03:32] <Diziet> (gs-esp upstream)++
[03:32] <Mithrandir> janimo: either works for me, really.
[03:33] <ogra> everything that doesnt make the packages conflict works for me either ...
[03:33] <zakame> hi jsgotangco 
[03:33] <jsgotangco> yo!
[03:33] <janimo> Mithrandir: so should I go back to alternatives if ogra needs that?
[03:33] <jsgotangco> lol blatant-and-awkward now has an emblem
[03:33] <ogra> (i'm fine with an alternative, but if there are chances fro a cleaner solution, i prefer to wait for Mithrandir )
[03:34] <janimo> in that case is the fix entirely in casper or did I install the symlink badly too?
[03:34] <zakame> huh?
[03:35] <jsgotangco> borked build?
[03:35] <Mithrandir> janimo: either, really.
[03:35] <janimo> ok
[03:36] <ogra> janimo, just tell me if i need to change anything in edubuntu-artwork 
[03:37] <Lure> ogra: kmplayer is not just frontend for mplayer and it does not depend on mplayer
[03:37] <ogra> Lure, i know 
[03:37] <ogra> but most of the users wont
[03:37] <ogra> its an odd naming imho
[03:38] <Lure> ogra: kmplayer is needed in main to replace embedded video ofr konqueror (kaffiene crashes)
[03:38] <ogra> Lure, sure 
[03:38] <ogra> but it shouldnt be named like that :)
[03:38] <Kamion> you can always think of it as "KDE Media Player"
[03:38] <ogra> kmaplyer-xine would be more appropriate for example
[03:39] <Lure> ogra: persuade authors to rename - it would be even more strange if ubuntu would ship it with different name
[03:39] <Riddell> renaming it is on the author's todo list
[03:39] <ogra> ah, cool :)=
[03:39] <janimo> ogra, look in xubuntu-default-settings 0.8 or wait till 0.10
[03:40] <janimo> and there are preint/postrm hooks 
[03:40] <ogra> janimo, will do, thanks
[03:40] <Riddell> mdke: you send me an e-mail the other day but my e-mail archives are broken, can you resend to jriddell@ubuntu.com
[03:40] <Kamion> Diziet: what did they do?
[03:41] <sivang> Riddell: has muse been brought up?
[03:44] <Diziet> Kamion: I reported a bug to them - a strange and complex thing in the bowels of the colour deskjet driver - and this morning there's an email saying what the code should have done and a sufficient reference to their already-committed fix.
[03:46] <Amaranth> ogra: would you be mentoring "Gnome Squid proxy configuration utility" for the google soc?
[03:46] <ogra> nope
[03:46] <KaiL_> does heise.de now really need to feed their trolls with a message about a bug in dapper BETA? *grr*
[03:46] <ogra> since i want to push willow
[03:46] <ogra> i'm a big squid hater
[03:46] <Amaranth> heh
[03:47] <Amaranth> it's the only thing in the (small) list of ideas that looks fun
[03:47] <ogra> (and i dont want it included at all if we can get willow DTRT)
[03:47] <Amaranth> unless i want to work on KDE :)
[03:47] <Kamion> KaiL_: how helpful
[03:48] <Kamion> KaiL_: it's a bad bug, but we don't want to withdraw the beta just for that
[03:48] <ogra> Amaranth, http://www.digitallumber.com/software/willow/
[03:48] <ogra> Amaranth, i'd happily mentor any project around that ;)
[03:48] <KaiL_> Kamion, that's why it is called BETA, or? Because it can have bugs
[03:48] <Kamion> I'll probably put a note on the releases.u.c website about it at some point
[03:48] <ogra> (it needs a code review to get rid of python-profiler to get into main)
[03:48] <Amaranth> dunno if plugging in a completely new proxy system and writing a configuration GUI for it would be a summer kind of thing
[03:48] <Kamion> KaiL_: well, "eats partition tables" is hardly ideal :-/
[03:48] <ogra> Amaranth, it *has* a gui
[03:48] <Amaranth> ogra: ooh, shiny
[03:49] <Amaranth> ogra: what would it need that could be made into a SoC project?
[03:49] <KaiL_> I wonder, why heise.de thinks, this is worth a message - somebody COULD think, their trolls are getting hungry ;)
[03:49] <ogra> (a webdriven one, but writing a gtk frontend is trivial)
[03:49] <ogra> Amaranth, as i said, it must drop the profiler dependency 
[03:50] <Mithrandir> freeflying: around?
[03:50] <Amaranth> ogra: that's it?
[03:50] <ogra> and someone should write the actual gtk gui
[03:50] <freeflying> Mithrandir: hi
[03:50] <Amaranth> ogra: it's written in python and needs some code cleanup and a pygtk gui?
[03:50] <Amaranth> i could do that :)
[03:50] <ogra> Amaranth, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/willowgui/ btw ;)
[03:50] <ogra> i already started, but its not much beyond the glade state yet
[03:50] <Mithrandir> freeflying: I'm looking at 40182 and it's a bit clearer what you're trying to do now.  However, I wonder where XMODIFIERS is usually set (in a normal, installed system)?
[03:51] <Amaranth> ogra: GtkFileChooserButton == evil
[03:51] <ogra> Amaranth, its been a first step
[03:51] <Amaranth> ogra: i got tons of complaints when i tried using that in alacarte, some people like typing in paths
[03:51] <Amaranth> ogra: yeah
[03:52] <Amaranth> ogra: I might have to see if I can get accepted to work on this. :)
[03:52] <ogra> feel free to drop and rewrite ... its just to give an impression how it could look like
[03:52] <freeflying> Mithrandir:  in installcd , they were set up by im-switch , it is in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90im-switch
[03:52] <Riddellll> sivang: no
[03:52] <sivang> Riddellll: okay. 
[03:52] <Mithrandir> freeflying: isn't /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90im-switch there on your (remastered) live cd?
[03:53] <freeflying> Mithrandir: it's in 
[03:53] <KaiL_> Kamion, maybe some "beta2" with that fixed and also the newest kernel might be an idea? ;)
[03:53] <freeflying> Mithrandir: but now I'd source it before I start kdm
[03:53] <ogra> Amaranth, a "transparent mode" would also be required (i.e. a willow initscript that sets the necessary iptable rules based on /etc/default/willow or something)
[03:53] <Mithrandir> freeflying: uh, you shouldn't need to do that.
[03:54] <Mithrandir> freeflying: anyway, it doesn't sound like a bug in casper at all; I would rather point at kdm (if you're using that) or kde-session (or whatever that's called)
[03:54] <Amaranth> ogra: sounds doable, the only hard part would be choosing defaults
[03:54] <ogra> yep
[03:54] <freeflying> Mithrandir: but it can do one month ago
[03:54] <Kamion> KaiL_: I don't fancy losing another night's sleep and about three days of otherwise productive work, thanks
[03:54] <Mithrandir> freeflying: what do you mean?
[03:54] <HiddenWolf> Can the espresso-installer be trusted to install a working system already?
[03:55] <ogra> Amaranth, you dont need many defaults there ... it uses bayesian filtering and learns really quick
[03:55] <Mithrandir> freeflying: it worked a month ago?  Well, I don't know what's changed in the KDE world.
[03:55] <Amaranth> ogra: neat
[03:55] <KaiL_> HiddenWolf, if you don't have any data on the disk, which must survive ;)
[03:55] <ogra> so we dont need to ship black/whitelists and leave that part to the user
[03:55] <HiddenWolf> KaiL_: was afraid of that.
[03:55] <Kamion> current daily shouldn't have that problem
[03:55] <ogra> it will still filter based on the bayesian filter
[03:55] <janimo> is there going to be another flight before RC?
[03:55] <freeflying> Mithrandir: I've remastered kubuntu's livecd 3 months ago ? it can work before, just not work recently
[03:55] <Kamion> ubiquity >= 0.99.64
[03:55] <Kamion> janimo: yes
[03:56] <Amaranth> ogra: ok, so "package willow and write gtk gui"
[03:56] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: A friend of mine is installing linux for the first time to see if he can do something for Google SoC. I'd rather not have him start by whiping his disk. ;)
[03:56] <Amaranth> ogra: the cleanup and defaults stuff is a part of making a good package
[03:56] <ogra> Amaranth, yep
[03:56] <pitti> Riddell: mh21@piware.de
[03:57] <Mithrandir> freeflying: ok.  Do you know which part of kubuntu is responsible for running /etc/X11/Xsession.d?
[03:57] <Amaranth> ogra: willing to mentor that one? you seem to know a lot about it
[03:57] <ogra> yep
[03:58] <freeflying> Mithrandir: no specially
[03:58] <Mithrandir> Riddell: which part of kubuntu runs /etc/X11/Xsession.d?
[03:59] <nomed> janimo: deadline for that pool ?
[04:00] <mdke> Riddellll, sure
[04:01] <Riddellll> Mithrandir: kdm does
[04:01] <bddebian> Morning Ubuntites
[04:01] <Riddellll> Mithrandir: oh no, that'll be ksmserver
[04:03] <bddebian> mdz: Sorry about the ffmpgetheora thing, I thought it said assign it to ubuntu-archive, not subscribe :-(
[04:05] <mdz> bddebian: my document said subscribe; if there's something out there in the wiki or elsewhere saying assign, please feel free to correct it
[04:06] <bddebian> mdz: No, it says subscribe, I'm just on crack :'-(
[04:08] <Mithrandir> Riddell: thanks.
[04:17] <elmo> mvo: ping?
[04:19] <mvo> elmo: hello
[04:20] <elmo> mvo: a bunch of us at the office have lost our update-notifier icons from the panel - was this intentional?  'cos I can't seem to find a way to add it back
[04:21] <mvo> elmo: is it sill in runing (in memory)? or complettely gone?
[04:23] <elmo> mvo: mine is in memory at least
[04:24] <elmo> I sometimes get the new-style bubble popup saying "woo hoo, new updates", but it tells me to click on a non-existent icon for more info
[04:24] <mvo> elmo: what does /var/lib/update-notifier/apt-check return?
[04:24] <mvo> elmo: oh, that is interessting
[04:24] <elmo> mvo: no such file or directory
[04:25] <elmo> you mean /usr/ presumably
[04:25] <elmo> with /usr/ it "just works", returns 0
[04:26] <mvo> elmo: hm, does apt-get/aptitude dist-upgrade show that there are upgrades?
[04:26] <elmo> mvo: for cvd, it's just not even in memory
[04:27] <elmo> but cvd is way behind, whereas Iupdated last night
[04:27] <elmo> mvo: yes, dselect shows upgrades
[04:27] <mvo> elmo: hrm, it is in /etc/xdg/autostart now, it should be started in the session
[04:27] <mvo> elmo: apt-get too? (I don't trust dselect ;)
[04:27] <elmo> pfft
[04:28] <elmo> 25 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[04:28] <elmo> ^-- apt-get dist-upgrade
[04:29] <jono> Keybuk, ping
[04:29] <Keybuk> jono: hey dude, 'sup?
[04:29] <jono> Keybuk, all good, you?
[04:31] <Keybuk> yeah pretty ok actually
[04:31] <jono> kent, can you do me a favour?
[04:31] <jono> Keybuk, do you have access to planetplanet.org
[04:33] <Keybuk> jono: no, you want jdub for that
[04:33] <jono> Keybuk, no worries :)
[04:39] <Diziet> mdke: Did you read the instructions at the bottom of DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation, which describe how to change the list ?
[04:40] <Surak> mdz: ping
[04:41] <mdz> Surak: yes?
[04:41] <Surak> mdz: the mythtv packages report you as the maintainer. I also noticed that there's no mythtv in debian. Do you actively maintain mythtv?
[04:42] <mdz> Surak: not anymore, no.  I believe Christian Marillat has started maintaining them going forward
[04:44] <Surak> mdz: the ubuntu packages are quite outdated in ubuntu. How can I request a sync from Marillat? Or must someone volunteer for maintaing it in ubuntu?
[04:45] <ogra> Surak, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperRessources
[04:46] <ogra> whoops
[04:46] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[04:46] <jsgotangco> looks like MOTU work to mee
[04:47] <Surak> jsgotangco: indeed. But this is not a standard Debian package, it's maintained at http://debian.video.free.fr/ , which presents itself as "Unofficial Debian Packages". That's why I asked mdz for it.
[04:47] <jono> hmm banshee cover art is broken
[04:48] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[04:48] <mdz> Surak: jsgotangco is correct; syncs are still requested in the same way
[04:48] <mdz> it is possible that the marillat packages do not build cleanly on ubuntu yet, also
[04:52] <mdke> Diziet, yes. Although understanding them is another matter
[04:52] <Amaranth> jono: works here, but some tracks in an album found cover art and some didn't
[04:54] <jono> Amaranth, actually, yeah it seems to work, its just pretty inconsistant
[04:54] <Amaranth> yep
[04:55] <Amaranth> and there is no way to manually add cover art
[04:55] <Amaranth> perhaps this should be in #banshee on gimpnet
[04:55] <Amaranth> this discussion, i mean
[04:56] <tseng> jono: it uses musicbrainz vs straight amazon webservices due to legalish stuff
[04:56] <tseng> amazon doesnt let you ship a devkey
[04:56] <tseng> and the data in MB is hit or miss
[04:57] <jono> no worries
[05:01] <Diziet> mdke: The master list is only in ubuntu-docs source; it ships prepare-f-s-t (containing the list) into ubuntu-docs.deb, and all of the other packages use the list there by invoking p-f-s-t
[05:02] <Diziet> That's why you just need to rebuild, but not edit, the other packages.
[05:02] <mdke> Diziet, fine, i understand that far
[05:02] <Surak> mdz: just for information, marillat's mythtv compiles cleanly on breezy when the mysql5's patch is removed. Ain't tried yet on dapper.
[05:02] <raphink> hmm
[05:02] <Diziet> And m-f-l-a has to go last so that no-one sees a `file not found'.
[05:03] <mdke> yep
[05:03] <raphink> I can't insert images in openoffice.org-impress
[05:03] <raphink> :(
[05:09] <janimo> nomed, which poll?artwork?
[05:11] <nomed> janimo: yes
[05:11] <nomed>  join #xubuntu or ping highvoltage
[05:11] <highvoltage> nomed: i'm here
[05:11] <janimo> nomed yeah, just talking with him
[05:12] <janimo> nomed, the artwork poll is over as Jozsef Mak said
[05:12] <highvoltage> nomed: talking to janimo in PM
[05:12] <janimo> so we go with steel blue
[05:12] <nomed> ohh perfect
[05:12] <janimo> since the poll on artwork forum showed people greatly prefer it to current or gray
[05:12] <janimo> I liked green too but that was not a candidate :)
[05:13] <janimo> anyway we finally have something consistent, I uploaded usplash and wallpaper for now
[05:13] <nomed> usplash has something really strange ...
[05:13] <nomed> it would be nice if some artist could check it ..
[05:14] <ogra> it hasnt the final artwork yet
[05:14] <ogra> (afaik)
[05:20] <nomed> ogra do you mean usplash is not definitive ?
[05:22] <bddebian> Should I put an xml file in /usr/share/packages/ for mime types or is there a better way?
[05:22] <janimo> nomed, probably ubuntu artwork is not final yet
[05:23] <nomed> janimo: ok
[05:23] <nomed> but i'm refiring to xubuntu usplash
[05:23] <janimo> I know, indeed it looks weird with that red
[05:23] <janimo> maybe Jmak will know
[05:24] <nomed> that has that red text while there is no red in the palette .. this is too strange for me :/
[05:25] <Mithrandir> mvo: in apt, what decides if apt wants to download a package if you have a package with the same version installed (but built locally)?
[05:28] <mvo> Mithrandir: I need to look it up 
[05:29] <janimo> nomed, strage to me too, but I know nothing about usplash
[05:37] <infinity> Mithrandir: dpkg keeps the md5 of the package (dpkg -p <paqckage> | grep ^MD5).  If that doesn't match the MD5 in the available file, I believe that triggers an upgrade.
[05:37] <Mithrandir> infinity: makes sense
[05:38] <Keybuk> infinity: dpkg doesn't keep the md5 of the package
[05:38] <Kamion> I think I'll link to that from releases.ubuntu.com
[05:38] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ouch.
[05:39] <infinity> Keybuk: Oh, is it just copying that straight from apt's merged availale info, then?
[05:39] <infinity> Hrm.
[05:40] <Keybuk> infinity: nope
[05:40] <Keybuk> no md5 in status
[05:40] <infinity> Mithrandir: In that case, I have no ida.  Wait for mvo to read apt's code. :)
[05:40] <Keybuk> quest scott% grep "^MD5" /var/lib/dpkg/status
[05:40] <Keybuk> zsh: exit 1     grep "^MD5" /var/lib/dpkg/status
[05:41] <infinity> Keybuk: Er, yeah, but there are md5sums in dpkg/available, which could mismatch with apt's lists.
[05:41] <Keybuk> infinity: no there aren't
[05:41] <Keybuk> APT never touches /var/lib/dpkg/available
[05:42] <infinity> Keybuk: Err, yes there are.  (is you use dselect, perhaps?)
[05:42] <infinity> Which I do.
[05:43] <Keybuk> possibly
[05:43] <Keybuk> they're not important
[05:43] <Keybuk> there's an MD5sum header in APT's own lists
[05:43] <Keybuk> I don't think that's used for anything though
[05:43] <infinity> Right, and there is in dpkg/available on my system, which is merged from apt lists.
[05:44] <infinity> Anyhow, I'll let mvo come back with the canonical "I read the code instead of speculating" answer to Mithrandir's question. :)
[05:44] <Keybuk> I *think*
[05:44] <Keybuk> APT builds up a list of candidate versions
[05:44] <Keybuk> which in theory would be the same as the installed version
[05:44] <Keybuk> but if any header is different, it downloads it again
[05:45] <Keybuk> (including, e.g. Installed-Size)
[05:45] <mvo> Kamion: do you mind if I add "testdisk" to the "how-to-recover-your-partition" bit in your wiki-page? I had good results with it in the past 
[05:45] <infinity> bddebian: Pong, but I'm heading to bed to nurse my cold.
[05:46] <mvo> infinity: given the interesst in the topic, I'll have a look now, but IIRC Keybuk is right in his analysis
[05:47] <infinity> The "if any header has changed" analysis?  Sounds reasonable enough.
[05:47] <bddebian> infinity: I don't need anything, I was just poking you for fun, sorry.  Get well! :-)
[05:49] <Keybuk> it's more fun when you have two candidates of the same version, and neither of them matches the one you're installed
[05:49] <Keybuk> afaik, which one gets picked is random
[05:49] <mvo> Keybuk: apt does not cope well with identical versions but different pacakges
[05:50] <infinity> "Random" in apt almost always means "the first one it finds", so, the first one listed in the first Package file it parses.
[05:53] <Kamion> mvo: not at all
[05:53] <Kamion> mvo: (go ahead)
[05:54] <BenC> is evolution all the sudden crashing constantly for anyone else?
[05:54] <dholbach> BenC: What are you trying to do when it crashes?
[05:54] <BenC> read email
[05:54] <BenC> it's really whacked out
[05:55] <ogra> BenC, try bug 40236
[05:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40236 in evolution "evolution crashes out of the blue and stays in a crasher loop" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40236
[05:55] <dholbach> you click on a mail and it crashes? does it crash when you start it? or does it "simply" hang?
[05:55] <BenC> nope, not it
[05:55] <BenC> it just crashes randomly after about 10 seconds
[05:55] <ogra> deleting the folder i was in (-changes) solved it 
[05:55] <BenC> if I start it up and don't touch it, it crashes
[05:55] <ogra> yep, that was the symptom here as well
[05:55] <BenC> doesn't matter which folder I am in
[05:56] <ogra> oh, you can actually change the folder 
[05:56] <dholbach> BenC: can you install evolution-dbg and evolution-data-server-dbg and get a backtrace?
[05:56] <ogra> it crashed faster for me
[05:56] <BenC> the main symptom is that the folders with unread messages, start going "unbold" as if they have no unread messages, one-by-one, then it crtashes
[05:57] <ogra> tuxmaniac, please turn off public away messages in here
[05:57] <dholbach> That sounds really weird - it'd be nice if you could get a backtrace of that.
[05:57] <BenC> dholbach: doing that now
[05:57] <dholbach> BenC: thanks a lot
[05:57] <pitti> BenC: did you get my /msg from some hours back?
[05:57] <BenC> this is a real serious problem for me, I'll do all that I can :)
[05:57] <Kamion> Riddell: do you know how to find out from a PyQt signal handler what widget the signal was raised on?
[05:57] <BenC> pitti: didn't you get the replies to it?
[05:57] <pitti> BenC: no
[05:58] <pitti> BenC: maybe your nick wasn't registered at that time?
[05:58] <BenC> pitti: damnit, I wasn't idented to nickserv :/
[05:58] <tuxmaniac> ogra: Sorry
[05:58] <dholbach> BenC: If I can't a duplicate of it, it'd be nice to get a log obtained by    CAMEL_DEBUG=all evolution > evo.log  as well
[05:58] <Riddell> Kamion: there's a way to do it in c++ at least but it's not recommended to reply on it
[05:58] <Riddell> rely on it
[05:59] <Kamion> how are you meant to distinguish widget from widget then? :)
[05:59] <ogra> dholbach, or 2&>1 >evo.log to get stderr as well ? 
[05:59] <Kamion> I'm just looking at a bug in the ubiquity-frontend-kde user-setup page which seems to be down to this
[06:00] <ivoks> Kamion: syncing with debian is stoped?
[06:00] <dholbach> ogra: the messages on stderr are not that important, but ok if you have them in as well
[06:00] <ogra> i just noted :) 
[06:00] <Kamion> ivoks: there's an LP bug that prevents us doing any syncs at the moment; cprov is looking at it as a matter of urgency
[06:00] <ivoks> Kamion: ok, thanks for info
[06:01] <infinity> Kamion: Oh, good, you filed that.  I was going to, but was too out of it to get to it.
[06:01] <Kamion> Riddell: oh, should it just be connecting signals on different widgets to different methods?
[06:01] <infinity> Kamion: bug#?
[06:01] <Kamion> infinity: bug 40958
[06:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40958 in qprocd "all sync attempts fail" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40958
[06:01] <infinity> Thanks.
[06:01] <Riddell> Kamion: http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/qobject.html#sender
[06:02] <Riddell> Kamion: but yes, the recommended way is just to use different slots for each widget
[06:02] <Kamion> Riddell: ok, mind if I fix up your user-setup page while I'm in here? (I was really just trying to reproduce some partitioning problems, but ...)
[06:02] <Riddell> Kamion: sure go ahead
[06:03] <Riddell> the tab order on that page is the most comical thing
[06:03] <Riddell> ogra: I've already converted mvo :)
[06:03] <ogra> haha
[06:03] <ogra> really ? 
[06:03] <Kamion> Riddell: I noticed the tab order, yes :)
[06:03] <ogra> so next synaptic is in QT ?
[06:04] <Kamion> Riddell: is that just widget order in the .ui file?
[06:04] <Riddell> well, he did language-selector-qt
[06:04] <mvo> ogra: yeah, its really nice 
[06:04] <ogra> heh
[06:04] <mvo> ogra: I seriously considered writing a new frontend for it :)
[06:04] <Riddell> Kamion: I think it is, but it's usually best to define tab order explicitly in qt designer
[06:05] <ogra> mvo, smart or synaptic ? 
[06:05] <mvo> ogra: smart
[06:05] <Riddell> which should take all of about seconds
[06:05] <ogra> mvo, wont you change it anyway over time to fit into the package management tools ? 
[06:07] <mvo> ogra: smart? well, its just a different backend, most higher level tools (g-a-i, update-manager, language-selector) don't need a lot of api, I think switching is not very hard. and smart is similar to apt in some ways :)
[06:08] <ogra> yes, but it will need a synaptic replacement at some point 
[06:08] <ogra> (or synaptic needs adjustment too)
[06:08] <mvo> ogra: smart --gui is pretty good already (but needs some more love)
[06:10] <ogra> mvo, btw, did you do anything with the g2ding stuff you grabbed from me ? 
[06:11] <mvo> ogra: I hacked a bit on it, but nothing serious (too little time) - and toyed a bit with the idea of pyification it :)
[06:11] <ogra> haha
[06:11] <ogra> great
[06:12] <Riddell> g2ding?
[06:12] <ogra> yep
[06:12] <mvo> Riddell: basicly a offline german<->english dictionary
[06:12] <ogra> an old C program of mine to translate from german to english and a spellchecker 
[06:12] <Riddell> ah, like leo
[06:12] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/python.png
[06:12] <ogra> eek 
[06:12] <ogra> wrong paste
[06:13] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/software/g2ding/
[06:14] <janimo> I plugged it in, and it plays. Do you mind the N ? ;)
[06:15] <Keybuk> PNP is an extension to the ISA bus to allow device identification
[06:15] <ogra> janimo, lucky you, my usb webcam doent work 
[06:15] <Keybuk> your webcam is *almost certainly* not on the ISA bus :)
[06:15] <ogra> but thats BenC's fault, not Keybuk 
[06:15] <jsgotangco> all my webcams dont work either
[06:16] <janimo> and PNP is not just an ISA/bios acronym. It's also marketing speak
[06:16] <Keybuk> janimo: this isn't 
[06:16] <Keybuk> ubuntu-marketing
[06:16] <janimo> and lately it's more likely the latter than the former
[06:16] <Keybuk> this is ubuntu-devel, we like to be precise here, otherwise those of us who have to fix it when "PNP doesn't work" don't know what the hell you're talking about
[06:16] <janimo> ogra, I did not expect it to work either, I'll add it to the supported hw wikipage
[06:17] <janimo> does anyone still use ISA around?
[06:17] <Keybuk> yes
[06:17] <Keybuk> everybody with a PC
[06:17] <janimo> PNP?
[06:17] <Keybuk> yes
[06:17] <Keybuk> everybody with a PC
[06:18] <Keybuk> usually things like your floppy drive, PC speaker, real-time clock, AT keyboard, PS/2 mouse port, joystick port, IrDA, serial ports, etc.
[06:18] <Keybuk> oh, parallel port too, obviously
[06:18] <Keybuk> all those things are on the PNP bus in a modern PC
[06:18] <Keybuk> dholbach: hmm, Ctrl+Shift-select isn't working in X-Chat today
[06:18] <mjg59> Well, it's not strictly isa
[06:18] <mjg59> But close enough
[06:19] <janimo> Keybuk please edit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-and-play
[06:19] <janimo> according to your reality :)
[06:19] <Keybuk> janimo: Wikipedia in wrong shocker
[06:19] <Keybuk> actually, the first paragraph of that seems to support my statements
[06:20] <janimo> but the rest of the article does not
[06:20] <janimo> and those peripherals while using ports not PCI style memory are still not ISA/PNP are they?
[06:20] <bddebian> Bah, where's seb128 when I need him?
[06:20] <Keybuk> and in English?
[06:21] <janimo> bddebian: vacation  think
[06:21] <bddebian> Noooo :_)
[06:21] <janimo> Keybuk: I dont; think the PC speaker qualifies as a ISA PNP device
[06:21] <Keybuk> it is
[06:21] <Keybuk> janimo: http://www.mit.edu/afs/sipb/contrib/doc/PnP/
[06:21] <janimo> checking
[06:21] <Keybuk> janimo: PC speaker has an ioport, etc. to be able to send output to it
[06:22] <janimo> so does everything with an ioport is ISA/PNP?
[06:22] <Keybuk> no
[06:22] <janimo> I thought the legacy devices had fixed port numbers
[06:23] <Keybuk> usually that's true, yes
[06:23] <janimo> so what's plugging got to do with them?
[06:23] <mjg59> Keybuk: PNP is not just an extension of the ISA bus. 
[06:23] <janimo> isn;t it that they retrofitted thePNP spec to cover legacy?
[06:23] <mjg59> Varoius other technologies are described as PNP
[06:23] <Keybuk> nothing, PnP is a specification for identifying connected devices
[06:24] <mjg59> Right, including serial
[06:24] <Keybuk> mjg59: wrongly, imo
[06:24] <mjg59> Keybuk: Serial PNP is an MS spec
[06:25] <Keybuk> yeah, that's ok
[06:25] <Keybuk> it's when people descibe a USB webcam as "PnP" that irritates
[06:25] <Keybuk> no, it's just USB!
[06:25] <janimo> well I would still describe my plugging in of a webcam and having it work as a PNP experience. Having a beep from the console I would not
[06:25] <Keybuk> likewise PCI
[06:25] <Keybuk> device detection, identification and configuration is covered in the standard bus specs
[06:25] <janimo> I did not describe my webcam as pnp mind you. (it's not even mine FWIW). Just my experience
[06:25] <mjg59> Keybuk: PCI device ID is part of the bus spec, but its implementation in Windows is part of PNP
[06:26] <Keybuk> mjg59: but it's implementation in Linux isn't :)
[06:26] <bddebian> If I install package.xml in /usr/share/mime/packages/package.xml, I need to run update-mime-db in postinst??
[06:26] <mjg59> Keybuk: If we'd had unified device id supply back in 95, it probably would have been
[06:26] <mjg59> But, well
[06:27] <Keybuk> clarity is always a bonus
[06:27] <Keybuk> "my USB webcam doesn't work" is better than "my PnP webcam doesn't work"
[06:28] <Keybuk> because we'd probably assume the latter was some sick ISAPnP webcam plugged into parport or something
[06:28] <tseng> hah SGI indiecam
[06:28] <Keybuk> I bet there also exists some sick ISA-on-USB chips out there
[06:30] <Keybuk> ok
[06:30] <Keybuk> something has *seriously* busted Copy and Paste on GNOME today
[06:30] <janimo> Keybuk, well there exist UART on USB
[06:30] <Keybuk> janimo: oddly enough, I was thinking of something similar
[06:30] <Keybuk> I have a USB device to connect to my train set
[06:30] <janimo> is you r train set PNP?
[06:31] <Keybuk> it's an RS-485 (Lenz Xpressnet) to RS-232 converter, with a UART, etc. then wrapped in a USB serial converter
[06:31] <janimo> I was thinking of USB/rs232 dongles. probably similar
[06:32] <Keybuk> yeah
[06:32] <Keybuk> they originally had just an RS-485-to-Serial converter
[06:32] <Keybuk> and rather than make a proper USB device, they just took that and stuck a USB converter on the front of *that*
[06:33] <janimo> and I think many USB bluetooth chips are over UART/USB dongles too
[06:33] <ivoks> w
[06:33] <janimo> the ones that only implement the diall up profile
[06:33] <bddebian> Folks, I apologize for being a PITA, but can anyone help me with this damn mime file so I can close this bug??
[06:34] <janimo> well I guess because it's cheaper than making a proper usb device
[06:34] <Keybuk> yeah
[06:35] <Keybuk> look at all of the PCI wireless cards that are just a PCMCIA bridge :)
[06:35] <kent> jono: you didnt meen to highligt me earlier right? it seems you where talking to another person..
[06:37] <Keybuk> pitti: ok, I have a cute bug... my clock is wrong, but I can't sudo ntpdate because sudo bitches about a timestamp being too far in the futuer
[06:37] <Keybuk> dholbach: help!
[06:37] <Keybuk> dholbach: copy and paste isn't working in gnome today
[06:38] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, I remember having seen that bug somewhere in bz
[06:38] <dholbach> Keybuk: copying from where to where?
[06:39] <Keybuk> dholbach: gnome-terminal to gnome-terminal using PRIMARY
[06:39] <Keybuk> I paste with the middle-mouse and get SECONDARY
[06:39] <Keybuk> seems to be true of every app
[06:39] <Keybuk> x-chat notably can't hilight or delete/copy etc.
[06:39] <Keybuk> pitti: sudo -k doesn't help either
[06:40] <Keybuk> aha!  gksudo doesn't care <g>
[06:40] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, strange, works fine for me
[06:40] <pitti> Keybuk: I just set my clock one hour into the future and then sudo'ed 
[06:40] <Keybuk> pitti: I set my clock to one year in the past
[06:40] <Keybuk> try it that way
[06:40] <pitti> ok
[06:41] <dholbach> Keybuk: how did you end up in that state?
[06:41] <Surak> alguem perguntou de cds. eu compro ha uns dez anos no linuxmall.com - tambem chamado cheapbytes
[06:41] <Keybuk> dholbach: which state?
[06:41] <pitti> Keybuk: I get the warning, but it doesn't stop me from executing sudo
[06:42] <Keybuk> dholbach: I'm willing to believe that c&p is broken because of my clock change
[06:42] <pitti> Keybuk: I remember that I already tried that before, but I couldn't reproduce it
[06:42] <Keybuk> pitti: it causes sudo to do nothing for me
[06:42] <pitti> it seems it needs a more detailled recipe
[06:42] <Keybuk> I had to touch /var/run/sudo/scott to make it work
[06:42] <dholbach> Keybuk: urg - I will try to reproduce that
[06:42] <Tonio_> hi all
[06:42] <pitti> drwx------ 2 root root 120 2005-04-24 11:40 martin
[06:42] <pitti> Keybuk: ^ my stamp file, from a year ago
[06:42] <Keybuk> pitti: with the date as normal, I did "sudo date 070900002005"
[06:43] <Keybuk> obviously this gave me a 2006-era timestamp file
[06:43] <Keybuk> then after that (and after ticket timeout) sudo no longer works
[06:43] <mvo> Mithrandir: sorry for the long delay. the reason that apt wants to reinstall your local build package is that it builds a hash from "installed-size,depeds,pre-depends, conflicts, replaces" and considers two identical version only identical when this hash matches. if not it it considers them as two diferent versions that happen to have the same version number. than the normal priority system applies and that means that the local installed pack
[06:43] <mvo> age has 100 and the one from the archive 500 -> the version from the archive is the new candidate
[06:43] <mvo> (this is what Keybuk suspected :)
[06:44] <Mithrandir> mvo: excellent, thanks. :-)
[06:44] <mvo> Mithrandir: cheers .)
[06:44] <pitti> Keybuk: call me stupid, I still can't reproduce it
[06:44] <Kamion> hmm, I'm going to have to deliberately break partman to test my candidate fix for these ubiquity bugs
[06:45] <Keybuk> mvo: cool, nice to know the exact details :)  I suspected Installed-Size was important
[06:45] <Keybuk> pitti: heh; I didn't try this deliberately <g>
[06:45] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, so again; I start with no stamp file at all?
[06:46] <Keybuk> I started with no timestamp file
[06:46] <Keybuk> did something to get one with the right date (2006)
[06:46] <Keybuk> then sudo date 2005 to set my clock back
[06:46] <Keybuk> did a lot of work, then tried to sudo date again
[06:46] <mvo> Keybuk: yes :) I got a bugreport today about this as well (pining does not work when you have identical version numbers but different packages)
[06:46] <Keybuk> and that wouldn't work, and gave that warning
[06:47] <pitti> Keybuk: I just did that, and immediately after sudo date, I get asked for the password again, but it works
[06:47] <pitti> Keybuk: I'll try it again and just let it time out now
[06:48] <pitti> whoops, this seriously confused gtimelog :)
[06:49] <Keybuk> quest libnih% sudo -s
[06:49] <Keybuk> sudo: timestamp too far in the future: Aug  9 00:30:13 2005
[06:49] <Keybuk> quest libnih%
[06:49] <Keybuk> is the kind of thing I get
[06:50] <Mithrandir> libnih, is that your libscott? :-)
[06:50] <thom> august 9 2005? is that how far KNT has slipped now?
[06:52] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: yeah
[06:52] <Keybuk> thom: lol
[06:52] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: is the collection of random routines and stuff that I've written over the years, I mostly just C&P into stuff I write
[06:54] <highvoltage> no woman no cry
[06:54] <bddebian> heh
[06:54] <ogra> HiddenWolf, oh, did she leave him ? 
[06:54] <ogra> err
[06:54] <ogra> highvoltage, 
[06:54] <ogra> do you know more than we ? 
[06:54] <highvoltage> ogra: 
[06:54] <ogra> tell us !
[06:55] <highvoltage> hehe. no.
[06:55] <bddebian> If she was smart she would :-)
[06:55] <abelcheung> op[
[06:55] <highvoltage> they playd bob marley on the radio on the way home.
[06:55] <Mithrandir> ogra: you know "no woman no cry" does not mean "if there's no woman, there's no cryin'" but rather "woman, don't cry"?
[06:55] <highvoltage> bddebian: what's wrong, you're keeping us all in suspense
[06:56] <highvoltage> Mithrandir: i never knew that
[06:56] <Keybuk> *giggle*
[06:56] <Kamion> Keybuk: do you happen to know if it's intentional that dpkg doesn't call the prerm when removing a package that's only unpacked?
[06:56] <Mithrandir> highvoltage: the song makes a lot more sense that way.
[06:56] <ogra> heh
[06:56] <Keybuk> ogra: setting the date *forward* by more than five minutes activates the screensaver
[06:56] <Keybuk> Kamion: what state was the package in?
[06:57] <highvoltage> xscreensaver has been doing that for a long time.
[06:57] <Keybuk> Kamion: valid unpacked but not configured state?
[06:57] <ogra> Keybuk, i only knew that it happens if you adjust it by an hour ... (with *all* screensaver implementations apparently=
[06:57] <ogra> s/=/)/
[06:57] <Keybuk> ogra: oh, well I adjusted it by two months :)
[06:57] <Kamion> Keybuk: 'install ok unpacked'; failed to configure due to dependencies
[06:58] <Keybuk> Kamion: I think it's intentional that it doesn't yeah
[06:58] <Keybuk> prerm remove "undoes" postinst configure
[06:58] <Keybuk> postrm remove "undoes" preinst install
[06:58] <Keybuk> etc.
[06:59] <Keybuk> you'd have to feed iwj enough alcohol to get him to the same mindstate he was in when he wrote that bit, and then ask him, for absolute clarification
[06:59] <Keybuk> you may find that the way he *intended* it work work, and the way it actually works, are at odds; of course :)
[06:59] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh, hmm, ok
[06:59] <ogra> sure that was alcohol ?
[06:59] <Mithrandir> just ask marga to make a diagram of how it's supposed to work?
[06:59] <Kamion> the real problem I'm having is that dh_python's prerm script is responsible for removing .pyc and .pyo files on package removal
[06:59] <Keybuk> lol
[07:00] <Keybuk> marga makes diagrams of how it actually works
[07:00] <Keybuk> which makes people realise it doesn't work how it's supposed to
[07:00] <bddebian> highvoltage: This stupid mime/xml file for anjuta
[07:00] <Keybuk> Kamion: what are those generated by?
[07:00] <Keybuk> Kamion: postinst, no?
[07:00] <Kamion> and dh_python's postinst fragment compiles everything in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages, not just the .py files for this package
[07:00] <Kamion> so it's generated by some other package's postinst
[07:00] <Keybuk> yeah, those should probably be removed in postrm not prerm
[07:00] <Keybuk> as I understand the intended operation
[07:01] <Kamion> ok, I'll file a debhelper bug
[07:02] <Keybuk> ah
[07:02] <Keybuk> yes, definitely intentional
[07:02] <Keybuk> prerm was called
[07:02] <Keybuk> "prerm upgrade" is called before ver 2 is unpacked
[07:02] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks for removing the packages from the archive.
[07:03] <Keybuk> so ver 1 prerm has been called, and told it was being called due to upgrade
[07:03] <Keybuk> so there's no reason for ver 2 prerm to be called until it's been configured
[07:03] <Keybuk> as I follow this logic
[07:04] <janimo> dholbach: what's the best irc chan to ask gtk app dev related questions?
[07:05] <dholbach> janimo: #gtk+ on irc.gnome.org
[07:06] <janimo> dholbach: thanks
[07:06] <dholbach> janimo: anytime
[07:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: (in this case it's a newly installed package so the prerm wasn't in fact called)
[07:08] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, the logic still stands from the upgrade case though
[07:08] <Keybuk> it implies prerm matches postinst
[07:08] <Keybuk> which is how I've always understood it, anyway
[07:16] <Lure> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportWlassistant says approved, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue says it is still in queue
[07:16] <Lure> pitti: what is correct?
[07:16] <pitti> Lure: yes, because I'm not sure which of knetworkmaanger or wlassistant we'll use eventually
[07:17] <pitti> Riddell: ^ ?
[07:17] <Riddell> pitti: knetworkmanager will just follow network-manager-gnome which last I checked isn't installed by default
[07:18] <ogra> but its in main
[07:18] <pitti> Riddell: and wlassistant will be?
[07:18] <Riddell> so wlassistant would be installed by default
[07:18] <pitti> Riddell: it smells like redundancy :)
[07:18] <ogra> wlassistant == wpasupplicant for knetworkmanager ? 
[07:18] <Riddell> pitti: we already have kwifimanager which duplicates both knetworkconf and knetworkmanager, wlassistant just duplicates knetworkmanager
[07:19] <ogra> ah
[07:19] <jjesse> knetworkmanager is easier to use then wlassistant 
[07:19] <jjesse> and i've found it to be more reliable
[07:19] <Riddell> ogra: no, it's a fairly simple wifi scanning and connection tool
[07:20] <Lure> ogra: but just unencrypted and WEP
[07:20] <Lure> (no WPA - you need knetworkmanager & wpasupplicant for WPA*)
[07:23] <pitti> Riddell: so, you want both in main?
[07:23] <Riddell> pitti: yes please
[07:24] <pitti> alright
[07:24] <Riddell> until network manager can be installed by default
[07:25] <pitti> gar, what broke mouse copy&paste in gnome-terminal???
[07:31] <pitti> Riddell: are the KDE printing patches now in dapper?
[07:32] <Riddell> pitti: yes
[07:32] <pitti> Riddell: I still have some bugs wrt. broken Kubuntu printing
[07:32] <pitti> like bug 39563
[07:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39563 in cupsys "Unable to print to a Canon Prixma IP 1000" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39563
[07:32] <pitti> Riddell: ok, then I'll ask the reporter to upgrade and check again
[07:32] <Riddell> pitti: yeah, I should start going through those, although first I'd like confirmation from someone other than me that it works now
[07:34] <pitti> aargh, I need mouse middle click for pasting, it's in my fingers
[07:34] <ogra> you can use shift+ctrl+{c,v} :)
[07:37] <pitti> doko: can you please take a look at bug 34599?
[07:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34599 in cupsys "Canon PIXMA IP xxxx don't work" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34599
[07:38] <pitti> doko: it seems that the generated postscript lacks %BoundingBox, i. e. is regarded as invalid. Do you know whether that's due to a faulty PPD?
[07:39] <doko> pitti: cups says, it's missing?
[07:39] <pitti> doko: yes, see last bug comment
[07:40] <Riddell> doko: did you upload my openoffice .desktop files fix for KDE?
[07:40] <doko> Riddell: the line should be in all desktop files
[07:41] <Riddell> doko: all openoffice ones yes
[07:41] <doko> Riddell: was this a question, or an confirmation?
[07:42] <Riddell> confirmation
[07:43] <Riddell> doko: do you have the patch, or shall I redo it, I can't seem to find a copy just now
[07:43] <doko> Riddell: ??? why redo it ???
[07:44] <Riddell> doko: because I can't find where I put it
[07:44] <Riddell> doko: unless you already applied it?
[07:44] <doko> Riddell: yes, it's applied and uploaded
[07:45] <doko> amd64 still missing
[07:45] <Riddell> oh excellent
[07:45] <Riddell> right, the explains why I'm not seeing it
[07:45] <doko> ahh, ok
[07:45] <Riddell> I see it now, sorry for the confusion
[07:46] <Riddell> doko: next thing is that openoffice-kde doesn't seem to work on amd64
[07:47] <doko> Riddell: at all?
[07:47] <Riddell> doko: it runs, but it's not using the KDE style
[07:48] <doko> are openoffice.org-gtk and openoffice.org-kde installed?
[07:48] <doko> are openoffice.org-gtk and openoffice.org-gnome installed?
[07:49] <Riddell> hmm, and File->Save just froze X
[07:50] <Riddell> neither of openoffice.org-gtk-gnome or openoffice.org-gtk are installed
[07:50] <doko> Riddell: oowriter --widgets-set kde comes up with the KDE style, but I'm running it in gnome
[07:51] <Riddell> oowriter --widgets-set comes up as build-in widgets for me
[07:53] <Riddell> ah, if I install openoffice.org-gtk-gnome and openoffice.org-gtk then it comes up with the qt style
[07:55] <LaserJock> mdz: thank you, thank you, thank you for "Bug forwarding methodology in Ubuntu"
[07:56] <doko> Riddell: remove openoffice.org-gtk-gnome and openoffice.org-gnome, does it still use qt?
[07:57] <Riddell> doko: yes, still using qt
[07:57] <doko> Riddell: do you have openoffice.org-gtk's dependencies on the kubuntu CD?
[07:57] <Riddell> doko: no
[08:06] <doko> Riddell: just found out, that /usr/lib/qt3/plugins/inputmethods/libqscim.so is not linked against libqt 
[08:06] <doko> there's one report open for that one ...
[08:07] <mdz> LaserJock: does that mean you volunteer to help with the proposed team? ;-)
[08:07] <bddebian> heh
[08:08] <Riddell> doko: curious
[08:08] <doko> hmm, you should never try to remove left-over diversions in the preinst ...
[08:08] <LaserJock> mdz: perhaps, but this issue has really bugged me. I *want* to help get bugs upstream (especially MOTUScience bugs) but the process is so labor intensive
[08:08] <mdz> fabbione: can we make x11-common conflict with xorg-common so that xorg-common gets removed on upgrades?
[08:09] <LaserJock> mdz: bddebian has added ~40 .desktop files from people to science packages, but I don't want to carry all that diff and they really need to go upstream
[08:09] <bddebian> LaserJock: I have a folder in my inbox that I want to submit to Debian when I'm "done" :-)
[08:10] <LaserJock> mdz: right now I'm looking at having to contact 40 upstreams, which isn't exactly fun :/
[08:10] <LaserJock> bddebian: I was going to try  emailing debian-science with a link to find the .desktops and/or debdiffs
[08:10] <bddebian> Ahh
[08:11] <mdz> Keybuk: the backgrounding of hwclock.sh seems to interact poorly with usplash
[08:11] <mdz> Keybuk: can it be fixed, or should we just remove the messages since it's happening in the background?
[08:11] <mdz> Keybuk: I expect we can't properly do usplash status messages in parallel
[08:12] <bddebian> Grrr, how do I get apt-get build-dep to continue on errors?
[08:12] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, i've noticed that already, the [ok]  gets lost
[08:13] <mdz> Keybuk: or rather, it actually comes up 1 second later ;-)
[08:13] <Keybuk> we can just replace that entire script with "udevplug /class/misc/rtc" anyway
[08:13] <Keybuk> it's only needed while /etc/localtime is a symlink to something under /usr
[08:13] <Keybuk> (and people insist on putting /usr on a different partition)
[08:13] <mdz> Keybuk: I'd feel a bit safer about just removing the messages ;-)
[08:13] <mdz> (for dapper)
[08:14] <Keybuk> agree
[08:14] <mdz> Keybuk: would it be reasonable to force VERBOSE=no to get that effect?
[08:14] <mdz> or preferable to just rip out the code?
[08:14] <mdz> presumably debian isn't using it
[08:15] <Keybuk> just rip out the code is easier
[08:15] <mdz> Keybuk: mind doing that one for me?
[08:16] <mdz> I'm behind on administrative matters
[08:16] <Keybuk> done
[08:16] <mdz> thanks
[08:16] <Keybuk> was just testing it
[08:16] <Keybuk> oh, meh, this upload is going to look messy :p
[08:17] <mdz> dholbach: do you think it would be OK to use --oknodo in /etc/init.d/gdm stop?
[08:18] <dholbach> mdz: For the moment I can't see any complications this might make.
[08:18] <dholbach> mdz: Is this a change needed for usplash?
[08:19] <mdz> dholbach: I just have a list of cosmetic issues with startup/shutdown
[08:19] <mdz> dholbach: one of them is that gdm doesn't print an 'ok'
[08:19] <mdz> that's presumably because gdm is already dead and start-stop-daemon exits nonzero
[08:20] <dholbach> mdz: Ok, I see - do you want to do that change now, or shall I tell seb, who wanted to update gdm anyway?
[08:20] <mdz> dholbach: isn't seb away on holidays?
[08:20] <mdz> dholbach: it's not urgent, no
[08:20] <dholbach> mdz: he is, yes.
[08:20] <mdz> dholbach: the restart action has "stop || true" anyway, so I don't see that it could have negative side effects
[08:21] <dholbach> mdz: sounds good to me, yeah.
[08:23] <dholbach> mdz: if you want to get it all done, it's fine. I'll add it to my todo list to make sure it's done.
[08:23] <bddebian> Damn, I need a KDE Ubuntu install
[08:23] <bddebian> And an ia64, and a PPC, and, and, and.. :-)
[08:27] <Mithrandir> bddebian: and a pony!
[08:27] <ogra> Mithrandir, yes i noted there was still no checkmark on "Horse" in your "am i spoiled" questionnaire :)
[08:28] <bddebian> Mithrandir: Nah, I prefer Goats.. ;-P
[08:28] <Mithrandir> ogra: I still live in a 80m flat in downtown Oslo and we don't have a balcony yet, so..
[08:28] <bddebian> Oh, was that a real e-mail?  I thought it was spam
[08:28] <ogra> meh
[08:29] <Mithrandir> ogra: I suspect simira might want one when we move to a proper house, but that's not for a few more years.
[08:29] <ogra> we'll move into a city soon, so we wont have a pony either ... 
[08:29] <ogra> :(
[08:29] <Mithrandir> you have one today?
[08:29] <ogra> and whats worse no bees for me :/
[08:29] <ogra> nope, but we were planning to get one this summer
[08:29] <ogra> a donkey and a pony
[08:34] <mdz> dholbach: so long as it is on someone's list and is done well before RC ;-)
[08:36] <dholbach> mdz: I pondered buying a huge whiteboard instead of pen and paper for my todo lists - I just can't get used to use the computer for them.
[08:36] <mdz> dholbach: I just use text files
[08:37] <mdz> except while making notes about the boot process
[08:37] <mdz> or during workrave breaks
[08:37] <LaserJock> dholbach: me neither, I just have a huge stack of sticky notes on my desk
[08:37] <mdz> then I use paper
[08:37] <dholbach> I tend to accidentally delete them or have them on different machines, ...
[08:38] <ogra> mdz, hey you are supposed to take *breaks* if workrave telly you ... not just switch the media ... thats cheating
[08:38] <ogra> *tells
[08:39] <Mithrandir> dholbach: if you have a nearby IKEA: they sell a1 whiteboards for about 10-15, iirc
[08:39] <dholbach> Mithrandir: WOW
[08:40] <Mithrandir> dholbach: (we have three of them)
[08:40] <dholbach> Mithrandir: that's brilliant
[08:40] <dholbach> I'll be late tomorrow
[08:40] <dholbach> :-p
[08:40] <ogra> hmm, hothing on the ikea website
[08:41] <ogra> i'd like some as well for my new office
[08:41] <Mithrandir> dholbach: http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10103&storeId=5&langId=-3&productId=11098
[08:42] <Mithrandir> dholbach: the pens they have are silly so buy some decent ones from a bookshop instead.  They cost more but won't dry so quickly.
[08:42] <ogra> hmm
[08:42] <dholbach> good to know - thanks a lot
[08:43] <mdz> ogra: I spend much of my workrave breaks thinking about things that need to be done
[08:43] <ogra> 80x58 ?
[08:43] <mdz> ogra: if I don't write them down, I forget them
[08:44] <ogra> mdz, you need a secretary, really :)
[08:44] <mdz> a voice recorder would be more practical
[08:44] <Mithrandir> ogra: ok, almost.  A1 is 594x841mm
[08:44] <tseng> i like small index cards
[08:45] <mdz> if I had a secretary, I would need to dress for work
[08:45] <tseng> more than post-its
[08:45] <ogra> heh, yes, but voice recorders selom look as good :)
[08:45] <ogra> *seldom
[08:45] <ogra> lol
[08:45] <ogra> yes
[08:45] <bddebian> Heya tseng
[08:45] <tseng> hi bddebian 
[08:45] <Mithrandir> mdz: just a voice link to your secretary, then
[08:45] <tseng> mdz: in my office the secretary comes to work at least 4 days a week
[08:45] <tseng> mdz: the VP comes much less
[08:45] <bddebian> heh
[08:46] <bddebian> Is the secretary gone when the VP is gone?? ;-P
[08:46] <tseng> no.
[08:47] <ogra> Mithrandir, oh, i was reading A0 above, sorry
[08:47] <ogra> sure thats A1
[08:47] <Mithrandir> ogra: but at that price, you can buy two. :-P
[08:47] <Mithrandir> which gives you a0
[08:47] <ogra> yep
[08:47] <ogra> :)
[08:48] <ogra> (i dont even know if my new office has space for whiteboards ... should find out first :) )
[08:49] <highvoltage> wiki's are the new whiteboards. although it's more difficult to get excited and write stuff frantically on a wiki than on a whiteboard.
[08:49] <Mithrandir> highvoltage: wikis suck for drawing stuff on, though
[08:50] <netstar> Does powerpc ubuntu glibc include: http://penguinppc.org/dev/glibc/glibc-powerpc-cpu-addon.html
[09:10] <Kamion> Riddell: the embedded qtparted doesn't seem to be starting for me; it just exits immediately
[09:11] <Riddell> Kamion: curious, I've never had any problems with that
[09:11] <Kamion> don't think it's something I'd have broken with my changes today
[09:14] <Mithrandir> ogra: does the edubuntu live cd support being a terminal server?
[09:14] <ogra> nope
[09:15] <ogra> you can apt-get it though
[09:15] <ogra> but it wont be fun to run it
[09:17] <Kamion> mdz: I'm considering a fairly quick Flight CD 7 release this week after bug 40464; any comments?
[09:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40464 in ubiquity "espresso crashes on partitioning step in Kubuntu 6.06 LTS Beta Live CD" [Critical,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40464
[09:19] <ogra> is it really flight 7 ? not beta 2 ?
[09:23] <Kamion> ogra: I'm concerned about spending the sort of developer time that would be needed for beta 2
[09:23] <ogra> but it fixes stuff from beta ... so the naming would suggest that
[09:23] <Kamion> i don't know
[09:24] <Kamion> the naming is not my primary concern right now anyway
[09:24] <ogra> indeed
[09:24] <Mithrandir> beta 1 - flight 7?
[09:25] <ogra> Mithrandir, good idea
[09:25] <Kamion> the question implied by naming is whether it goes on cdimage.u.c or releases.u.c
[09:25] <Kamion> releases.u.c has traditionally been held to a higher standard of QA
[09:26] <Kamion> in the past we haven't really faced the question of something published on releases.u.c that turns out to have dangerous bugs, though
[09:26] <Kamion> there's the possibility of doing Flight 7 for the text-mode install CD and an updated beta desktop CD, I guess
[09:26] <Mithrandir> we could just call it beta 1.1
[09:26] <Kamion> which would be half the effort to QA
[09:26] <Kamion> (well, ish)
[09:27] <bluefoxicy> damnit.
[09:27] <Kamion> the beta text-mode install CD is fine AFAIK, we don't need to update it
[09:27] <Mithrandir> yeah
[09:27] <bluefoxicy> There's a lot of new DRM code in 2.6.16, chunks of the DRM system seem to have been fundamentally reworked
[09:27] <Keybuk> did we decide what we're actually calling that yet?  "text-mode install CD" is a bit of a mouthful
[09:27] <bluefoxicy> and via is still broke on 2.6.15
[09:27] <Kamion> Keybuk: haven't seen better suggestions yet :(
[09:27] <bddebian> TMIC
[09:27] <ogra> Keybuk, it was used in the announcement iirc
[09:27] <bluefoxicy> time to build a 2.6.16 kernel and see if it fixes it.
[09:27] <Keybuk> Kamion: I liked "console CD", as it suggests a partner to "desktop"
[09:28] <ogra> so until something better comes along it might be the wording
[09:28] <Kamion> Keybuk: but it suggests that the result will be a non-X installation
[09:28] <Kamion> (to me, anyway)
[09:28] <mdz> Kamion: yes, I'd like to get into a shorter rhythm of Flight releases post-Beta, since they should be relatively lightweight (we'll be very conservative when it comes to disruptive changes)
[09:28] <ogra> Kamion++
[09:28] <Keybuk> so does "text-mode install" (to me)
[09:28] <Kamion> at least it admits the possibility of the adjective modifying "install" rather than the whole thing
[09:28] <ogra> text *based* would be better
[09:29] <Kamion> mdz: what do you think of doing another beta live CD?
[09:29] <Mithrandir> mdz: what does "shorter rhytm" mean?  Weekly or every second week?
[09:29] <mdz> Kamion: in terms of naming or process?
[09:29] <Kamion> mdz: either, really
[09:29] <bluefoxicy> I'm downloading a 2.6.16.10 bz2 from kernel.org, what's the best way to build it aside from hand-configuration?
[09:29] <Kamion> in terms of "should we, given that the installer has a significant risk of trashing your disk"
[09:30] <crimsun> (why not "Traditional" for the install CD?)
[09:30] <Kamion> traditional is OK by me, I can't remember whether it came up
[09:30] <ogra> "classic" !
[09:30] <tseng> bluefoxicy: 2.6.16 won't be in dapper, you are kind of cluttering important time-relevant discussion.
[09:30] <mdz> Kamion: sounds too safe and warm
[09:30] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  nod.  -offtopic then?
[09:30] <mdz> Mithrandir: weekly would be ideal but I think the overhead is still too high
[09:30] <tseng> bluefoxicy: wherever.
[09:31] <tseng> bluefoxicy: #-kernel if you have a point
[09:31] <mdz> Kamion: how would a hypothetical second beta differ from flight 7, other than naming?  I think a full test cycle a la beta would be excessive
[09:31] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  ah yes, forgot about that one, thanks.
[09:31] <Kamion> mdz: going on releases.u.c, replacing existing beta
[09:31] <mdz> Kamion: we'd have to be careful if we want useful bug reports
[09:32] <Kamion> mdz: I know, but the impact of 40464 is such that I'm not getting useful installer bug reports
[09:32] <Kamion> they're dominated by "oh my god it ate my disk"
[09:32] <mdz> Kamion: ok then, if it's worth the "which beta are you using?" headaches, then yes
[09:32] <Kamion> and I think people are being scared off trying it
[09:33] <Kamion> (understandably)
[09:33] <sivang> re
[09:33] <Kamion> mdz: we'd have to call it beta 1.1 or beta 2 or something to help with that
[09:33] <bddebian> Anyone know what I can do about this: 
[09:33] <bddebian> configure.in:1467: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_CHECK_TCLTK
[09:33] <bddebian>       If this token and others are legitimate, please use m4_pattern_allow.
[09:33] <bddebian>       See the Autoconf documentation.
[09:33] <bddebian> wb sivang
[09:33] <mdz> Kamion: beta 2
[09:34] <Mithrandir> beta 2 and just copy d-i install cds beta 1 to beta 2?
[09:34] <Kamion> if I have time tomorrow, I'll try to get a crash dialog thing into ubiquity, to reduce the bug triage turnaround time
[09:34] <crimsun> bddebian: url in -motu?
[09:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that's certainly possible
[09:34] <bddebian> crimsun: ?
[09:34] <Kamion> and if possible fix the passwords-logged-in-debug-mode problem and default UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1
[09:35] <Kamion> anyway, time for not-work, night all
[09:35] <mdz> Kamion: what's special about the circumstances in #40464?  I never saw anything like it
[09:35] <bddebian> Gnight Kamion
[09:35] <Kamion> mdz: requires the installer frontend to crash while partman is running
[09:35] <Kamion> mdz: can happen if you have e.g. unclean partitions that parted throws an error on
[09:36] <ogra> i just had one case in #edubuntu 
[09:36] <Kamion> I haven't nailed down the exact set of circumstances, but that's reasonably close I think
[09:36] <ogra> seems to happen quite frequently
[09:36] <mdz> Kamion: does the fix make it robust against GUI crashes in general?
[09:36] <Kamion> mdz: yes, I believe so
[09:37] <Kamion> debconffiltered subprocesses will now go the hell away as soon as they try to talk to debconf (they'll get SIGPIPE and terminate)
[09:37] <Kamion> whereas before, thanks to python, they got SIGPIPE and carried on
[09:37] <Kamion> and the partitioner always tries to talk to debconf for the confirmation question before committing anyway
[09:37] <Kamion> anything
[09:38] <Kamion> it also fixes a class of problems where the installer crashed and then couldn't be restarted because something was still talking to debconf
[09:38] <mdz> Kamion: I'm undecided over whether we should replace the existing beta or break the links from the announcement
[09:39] <Kamion> got to go, sorry to leave in the middle of a discussion; I'll read scrollback though
[10:07] <jcole> http://www.codeweavers.com/support/tickets/browse/?ticket_id=77466;s_subject=ubuntu;search=%20Submit%20Search%20
[10:07] <jcole> that says i need to recompile my kernel for CONFIG_3GB
[10:08] <jcole> =y
[10:08] <Keybuk> use a server kernel
[10:08] <jcole> $ grep GB=y config-2.6.15-21-686
[10:08] <jcole> CONFIG_1GB=y
[10:08] <jcole> ah
[10:09] <Keybuk> I think, anyway
[10:09] <jcole> i'll install and grep the config...
[10:09] <mjg59> jcole: That's been fixed for some time
[10:09] <Keybuk> though I can't even find that define in the current kernel source
[10:10] <mjg59> If you're having problems, that's not the fix
[10:10] <jcole> mjg59: kernel 2.6.15-21 is the latest i can find for dapper
[10:10] <mjg59> jcole: Yes
[10:10] <mjg59> It has the correct 3:1 split
[10:10] <mjg59> Ignore the options, they're confusingly named
[10:11] <jcole> mjg59: i'm running 2.6.15-20, maybe i need to reboot into it?
[10:11] <mjg59> jcole: No, it's fixed in that as well
[10:11] <mjg59> What error are you getting?
[10:11] <jcole> mjg59: my system just freezes up hard
[10:11] <jcole> $ grep GB=y config-2.6.15-21-server
[10:11] <jcole> CONFIG_1GB=y
[10:11] <jcole> crap
[10:11] <jcole> well, htat's not going to work
 Ignore the options, they're confusingly named
[10:12] <mjg59> jcole: I'm sorry, I don't understand
[10:13] <mjg59> jcole: The report you pointed at is about a crash in a userspace application, not a kernel freeze
[10:13] <jcole> according to sedwards in #crossover, i need CONFIG_3GB=y
[10:13] <mjg59> jcole: Not in the Ubuntu case
[10:13] <mjg59> Trust me on this. The kernel configuration is the one you want, and the misconfiguration would *not* cause a hard freeze
[10:15] <Robot101> explodes
[10:15] <jcole> mjg59: i'm running in hyperthread (smp) mode
[10:15] <mjg59> jcole: That makes no difference
[10:15] <jcole> mjg59: :/
[10:15] <mjg59> jcole: This bug report http://www.codeweavers.com/support/tickets/browse/?ticket_id=77466;s_subject=ubuntu;search=%20Submit%20Search%20
[10:15] <mjg59> has nothing to do with system freezes
[10:16] <bluefoxicy> wait i'm confused
[10:16] <bluefoxicy> does ubuntu use 3G Kernel/1G User or 3G User/1G Kernel now?
[10:17] <jcole> maybe i should install 2.6.15-18 and diff the config?
[10:17] <jcole> people seem to having success with crossover on version 2.6.15-18
[10:18] <jcole> but of course, i can't find it in apt, lol
[10:18] <jcole> can someone diff those kernel configs?
[10:18] <mjg59> jcole: Without telling us what the bug actually /is/, no
[10:19] <jcole> mjg59: i'm trying to install IE in crossover office and when running the IE setup my system locks up
[10:20] <jcole> mjg59: worked on the breezy system here
[10:20] <mjg59> That's much more likely to be an X problem than a kernel one
[10:23] <jcole> mjg59: there doesn't seem to be any up kernel anymore, is there a kernel param i can use to disable smp?
[10:23] <mjg59> jcole: nosmp, I think
[10:23] <mjg59> The -386 kernel is still up only
[10:23] <mjg59> But again, I doubt that's your problem
[10:24] <jcole> mjg59: i've been using crossover for many years and remember there was once a problem with wine+smp
[10:24] <mjg59> jcole: If there is, it's a wine bug not a kernel bug
[10:24] <jcole> mjg59: wine does some scary stuff with memory and binary code
[10:24] <mjg59> Can you still ping the machine while it's frozen?
[10:25] <jcole> mjg59: no, it's dead, i tried to ssh to it, then ping it with no success
[10:25] <mjg59> Hm. Interesting.
[10:25] <mjg59> Might be a kernel issue, then (but certainly not the 3/1 split thing)
[10:25] <jcole> mjg59: brb, i'll try nosmp
[10:26] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  what's the 3/1 split look like?  K/U or U/K?
[10:27] <mjg59> bluefoxicy: kernel/user, I believe
[10:27] <mjg59> Oh, no, other way around
[10:27] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  Ah, 3 gig in userspace again?
[10:27] <mjg59> Back to the default
[10:27] <bluefoxicy> A few months ago i moved to an AMD64 base install because somehow there was 1G U and 3G K  and Gimp crashed while I was editing an image with 45 layers :P
[10:28] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  why was it 1/3 instead for a while?  Design decision?  Bug?
[10:28] <mjg59> It was 2/2 for a while
[10:29] <mjg59> Worked around a couple of other bugs, but broke some userspace apps
[10:29] <bluefoxicy> mmm.  I threw a test program at it that mmap()ed out sets of pages and calculated how much it could mmap() before they started to fail, it always stopped a few megs short of a gig.
[10:30] <bluefoxicy> interestingly, when I got to amd64, it started doing it up to 87TiB
[10:33] <trappist> well a 64bit cpu can map a lot more than 4GB
[10:33] <bluefoxicy> Did 22369619 mappings of 4194304 = 93824982450176
[10:33] <bluefoxicy>                 87381GiB
[10:33] <jdong> bluefoxicy: dude... it's 64-bit...
[10:33] <bluefoxicy> trappist:  a 64-bit CPU with a 48-bit virtual address space (AMD64) can map 256TiB
[10:34] <bluefoxicy> I was more expecting a 64TiB kernel/192TiB User split, but :)
[10:34] <bluefoxicy> it doesn't really matter much either way
[10:36] <bluefoxicy> it looks like 2/3 go to kernel, 1/3 to user
[10:38] <bluefoxicy> if that's even possible; 256 doesn't divide by 3 very well, nor does 1024 (the base raised exponentially to calculate bytes from TiB) or 4096 (the page size).
[10:42] <jcol1> got disconnected
[10:58] <dholbach> Kinnison: g-p-m 2.14.2 for you - rejoice!
[10:59] <mvo> dholbach: does  it have the inhibit dbus interface?
[10:59] <dholbach> mvo: I didn't read the diff, so I have no idea - sorry.
[10:59] <mvo> dholbach: slacker ;)
[11:00] <dholbach> Ok, I call it a day
[11:01] <mdke> night
[11:03] <bddebian> Gnight dholbach
[11:15] <Surak> Kamion: should all espresso bugs be moved to ubiquity?
[11:17] <BenC> dholbach: ping
[11:17] <mdke> unlucky
[11:27] <mdke> has a positive decision been taken to hide mounted partitions on the desktop again, or did the fix to bug #28991 get dropped?
[11:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28991 in nautilus "drives icons on the desktop for dapper?" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28991
[11:27] <desrt> so the prevailing theory is that bootup (of gnome and say, ubuntu, in general) is that the system spends tonnes of time waiting on disk io, right?
[11:28] <desrt> mdke; originally mounted partitions were hidden except for ones in /media and /mnt (which were shown)
[11:28] <desrt> mdke; pitti then changed it so that only the ones in /media are shown (/mnt is hidden again)
[11:28] <mdke> well, now they aren't again
[11:28] <desrt> /mnt is back?
[11:29] <mdke> no, nothing is shown
[11:29] <desrt> is show_volumes selected?
[11:29] <desrt> volumes_visible, even
[11:29] <mdke> oh hell
[11:29] <mdke> it is, must be a different bug
[11:30] <desrt> mdke; only volumes with mountpoints in /media will be shown
[11:31] <mdke> i thought everything that is mounted automatically goes there
[11:31] <desrt> no.
[11:31] <desrt> this is a change to hal and gnome-vfs that happened right around the release of gnome 2.14
[11:31] <desrt> i think the change was to gnome-vfs and pitti got angry and vendor-patched hal to mitigate the negative effects
[11:31] <mdke> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2006-April/006212.html
[11:32] <desrt> i personally think everyone ought to use the drivemount applet :)
[11:33] <mdke> desrt, but sadly Ubuntu doesn't provide that by default
[11:33] <desrt> mdke; it's very very easy to add
[11:33] <mdke> desrt, only if you know it's there
[11:33] <desrt> fair
[11:34] <joelbryan> anyone, is there an issue with binding <Ctrl><Alt>Delete with gnome-system-monitor?
[11:35] <joelbryan> I reported a bug and include a script to do that, #41186
[11:35] <joelbryan> Bug #41186
[11:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41186 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "Configure Ctrl-Alt-Del to open Gnome System Monitor" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41186
[11:36] <mdke> you need to file it on gnome-session, I think
[11:36] <joelbryan> or metacity?
[11:38] <joelbryan> What does ubuntu-desktop do, anyways?
[11:43] <mdke> joelbryan, it doesn't do anything, but it has lots of dependencies
[11:43] <LaserJock> joelbryan: ubuntu-desktop is a metapackage that depends on all the various bits that make up the Ubuntu Desktop, or something like that
[11:43] <joelbryan> ok
[11:50] <mdke> Kinnison, bug #39448 for you to consider when you have time.
[11:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39448 in gnome-power-manager acpi-support "Screen is not locked when it should be" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39448
[11:50] <mdke> Kinnison, ping me if you'd like to discuss