[02:10] <bddebian> Howdy
[02:11] <jmg> is malone taking a beeting or is it just me?
[02:11] <bddebian> A beating even? ;-P
[02:12] <jmg> beating
[02:12] <jmg> wiki too
[02:14] <bddebian> Should Flight 5 bugs be rejected?
[02:17] <mdke> bddebian, if they have been fixed
[02:18] <mdke> hey sabdfl, you around for 2 mins?
[02:21] <bddebian> Is there even a flash-player meta package anymore?
[02:21] <mdke> bddebian, there is an installer package
[02:22] <bddebian> Actually called flash-player?  I can't find one?
[02:22] <mdke> flashplugin-nonfree - Macromedia Flash Player plugin installer
[02:22] <mdke> bddebian, see the Ubuntu Desktop Guide for more information :D
[02:23] <bddebian> Sorry I'm just looking at unconfirmed bugs and that's an old one
[02:23] <mdke> there used to be a flashplayer package which shipped the thing, but it was removed because we didn't have the appropriate licence 
[02:24] <mdke> infinity was looking into getting permission to ship it again
[02:25] <bddebian> Same for flashplayer-mozilla plugin?
[02:25] <mdke> that was the one
[02:26] <mdke> sabdfl, I'll leave you a query
[02:51] <jono> jdub, Mr Waugh, are you present on this fine evening?
[03:06] <jmg> why cant i edit a spec on lp? says permission denied
[03:51] <jmg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenEnabledKernelDraft
[04:35] <bddebian> Anyone awake that can check an upload for me?
[04:37] <sfllaw> bddebian: I'm awake.  But I'm not competent yet.  :)
[04:37] <bddebian> sfllaw: :-)
[04:37] <sfllaw> What's involved in checking an Ubuntu upload?
[04:38] <bddebian> sfllaw: I didn't get an accept or reject message :-)
[04:38] <bddebian> I probably need lamont, Kamion, or infinity?
[04:39] <sfllaw> Ah.  Well then.
[04:39] <sfllaw> Best go back to sleep.
[04:39] <ajmitch> hi simon 
[04:41] <sfllaw> ajmitch: Hey.
[04:42] <bddebian> sfllaw: Where do I know you from?
[04:43] <sfllaw> #hurd.
[04:43] <sfllaw> I'm coleSLAW.
[04:44] <bddebian> sfllaw: I knew the coleSLAW nick, I just couldn't remember where I'd seen it :)
[04:44] <bddebian> I'm getting senile in my old age :-)
[04:45] <sfllaw> Barry, really.  You're a young-un.
[04:46] <bddebian> Yeah right :-)
[04:48] <ajmitch> bddebian: another reason why you should have been at UBZ
[04:48] <bddebian> ajmitch: Whazzat?
[04:48] <sfllaw> Ubuntu Below Zero.
[04:48] <sfllaw> I was there.  Got myself a GNU T-shirt, even.
[04:49] <sfllaw> Very spiffy.
[04:49] <bddebian> No, I mean what reason :-)
[04:49] <sfllaw> (I think that was that conference.)
[04:50] <bddebian> nictuku: Did you get an e-mail about smart?
[04:51] <nictuku> bddebian, you mean from LP about your changes? if so, yes
[04:52] <bddebian> nictuku: OK, good, just checking :-)
[04:53] <ajmitch> sfllaw: yeah, UBZ was the one in montreal 
[04:55] <imbrandon> anyone up for poking arround with a spec i just proposed https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/fubuntu-desktop
[05:05] <Kyral> Fluxbox Based?
[05:05] <Kyral> DAMN YOU! YOU TOOK MY IDEA!! *STAB!*
[05:06] <Kyral> :P
[05:07] <imbrandon> lol
[05:07] <Kyral> Though I'd suggest mrxvt as a terminal
[05:07] <imbrandon> umm help me with it then ;)
[05:07] <Kyral> Can I poke it?
[05:08] <imbrandon> sure
[05:08] <imbrandon> i've even setup a repos and metapackage too
[05:08] <imbrandon> if you wanna play 
[05:08] <imbrandon> heh
[05:08] <Kyral> Actually.....how do I register a distro...
[05:08] <imbrandon> on launchpad ?
[05:08] <imbrandon> not sure
[05:08] <imbrandon> or i probbly would have done that too
[05:09] <Kyral> b/c I'm thinking about creating my own distro and I wanna use LP for bug tracking :D
[05:09] <imbrandon> not sure, poke arround ;)
[05:09] <Kyral> was talking with the ArchLinux guys about it earlier
[05:10] <Kyral> So am I allowed to "poke" the spec (how do I poke it anyway?)
[05:11] <imbrandon> register and add comments i think, first spec i've posted actualy
[05:11] <Kyral> I'm registered believe me :P
[05:12] <imbrandon> whats your email?
[05:13] <imbrandon> kyral@azuredreams.us
[05:13] <imbrandon>     Chris Peterman
[05:13] <imbrandon> kyralzbynek@iol.cz
[05:13] <imbrandon>     Zbynek Kyral 
[05:13] <Kyral> wtf
[05:13] <Kyral> ...polish?
[05:13] <imbrandon> thats from lp
[05:13] <Kyral> no it ain't
[05:14] <imbrandon> ummm where else would i get it
[05:14] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/people/kyral
[05:14] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:15] <imbrandon> there i added it to your que
[05:15] <Kyral> Whoa when the heck did I become the maintainer of configure-debian?
[05:15] <imbrandon> lol
[05:15] <Kyral> oh "Uploaded" lol
[05:48] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[05:49] <Burgundavia> salut jdub, how are you today?
[05:49] <bddebian> Hello jdub
[05:49] <bddebian> What if we hate freedom but like Ubuntu? ;-P
[05:50] <jdub> then you are dead to me
[05:50] <jdub> Burgundavia: morning
[05:50] <jdub> Burgundavia: good
[05:50] <jsgotangco> good morning
[05:50] <Burgundavia> 10x10 is marching across Oklahoma
[05:50] <jdub> Burgundavia: today, in my country, we celebrate/mourn the unimaginable horrors of war
[05:51] <Burgundavia> ah, we do that on November 11th
[05:51] <bddebian> Hmm, I think I'm dead to most in here :-)
[05:52] <jdub> we do that one too
[05:52] <jsgotangco> bddebian: outlander...\
[05:53] <bddebian> jsgotangco: Heh.  I'm out in the middle of some island in the boonies on this thing :-)
[05:58] <ajmitch> jdub: you were up for the dawn parade then?
[06:01] <jdub> ajmitch: no, actually, i just got up
[06:30] <jsgotangco> oh my
[06:30] <jsgotangco> i just remembered
[06:30] <jsgotangco> its been a year since UDU
[06:30] <Lathiat> you mean BZ?
[06:30] <Burgundavia> been a long time eh?
[06:30] <Lathiat> oh no
[06:30] <Lathiat> your right
[06:30] <Lathiat> nevermind me
[06:30] <Lathiat> :)
[06:30] <jsgotangco> Gallipoli
[07:23] <keel> what (on earth) took ubuntu so long until it got a functional installation/live cd? why was it not possible to simply import knoppix technology? (i am not complaining or rhetoricizing, i really am very much interested in understanding what is that makes such cooperation impossible even in the world of open source.)
[07:26] <keel> why do i get this feeling that most other (non-knoppixbased) distros try to reinvent the wheel (when it comes to cd lives), and very much less successfully at that.
[07:26] <keel> s/\./\?/
[07:28] <keel> Lure: do you prefer that i paste my questions again for you, since you've just come?
[07:28] <Lure> keel: yes please
[07:28] <keel> Lure: and, btw, what is .si?!
[07:28] <infinity> keel: Erm, we prefer that you don't whine in here in the first place.
[07:28] <Lure> keel: Slovenia
[07:29] <infinity> keel: This is not a discussion forum, it's a development co-ordination channel.
[07:29] <keel> what (on earth) took ubuntu so long until it got a functional installation/live cd? why was it not possible to simply import knoppix technology? (i am not complaining or rhetoricizing, i really am very much interested in understanding what is that makes such cooperation impossible even in the world of open source.)
[07:29] <keel> why do i get this feeling that most other (non-knoppixbased) distros try to reinvent the wheel (when it comes to cd lives), and very much less successfully at that.
[07:29] <keel> infinity: do i really look like whining?
[07:29] <zakame> hi
[07:30] <infinity> keel: Well, you're asking questions that you know won't be answered, so it hardly seems relevant to development.
[07:30] <infinity> keel: We do things differently.  We always have.  We like our LiveCD.  It works for us.  We're not switching to knoppix's methods.  The end.
[07:30] <keel> infinity: my question may be quite "higher level", but is very much related to ubuntu development.
[07:31] <Lure> keel: I though that you have some concrete questions - your's is more a philosophical and is has to do with freedom to innovate
[07:31] <keel> infinity: no, really! i never thought my question was unanswearable. i just thought i didn't know the answers and thought it was time for me to finally ask for them.
[07:31] <keel> Lure: i see. it's a matter of variation. i then agree.
[07:32] <infinity> keel: Note that "providing answers to your burning questions" has nothing to do with development.
[07:32] <keel> infinity: is ubuntu's a better approach?
[07:32] <infinity> keel: Saying "guys, I have some great ways to improve the LiveCD and how it runs/installs, here are some patches" would.
[07:32] <infinity> keel: I tend to prefer Ubuntu's LiveCD, but I take part in building it, so I may be biased.
[07:32] <keel> infinity: you use this channel only as a tool for development?
[07:33] <Lure> keel: why do you think things has to be done like others are doing - I started to participate in this great community because their way is innovation by itself and because it is very easy to contribute
[07:33] <Lure> keel: and yes, this channel is meant to be for real development issues
[07:33] <keel> infinity: anyway, i am not against innovation (or attempts to innovate). i only wonder why not using already existing technologies, until ours is ready
[07:34] <keel> Lure: ^
[07:34] <keel> Lure, infinity: then again, what do you think the best channel would be for this kind of a discussion?
[07:34] <infinity> keel: Sometimes reinventing the wheel is cleaner and easier than shoehorning your distribution into someone else's build process.
[07:35] <infinity> keel: #ubuntu would be fine, or the sounder@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list...
[07:36] <crimsun> #ubuntu-offtopic
[07:37] <keel> infinity: i agree, i was just not sure this was what ubuntu was doing (having another vision, wanting to begin it from scratch); however, i am not sure it is impossible to use knoppix's technology only temporarily, until ours becomes acceptable (as it is now).
[07:37] <keel> infinity: what is "sounder"?
[07:38] <keel> crimsun, keel: oh, "sounder" is some sort of mailing list equivalent to "#ubuntu-offtopic"?
[07:43] <infinity> "sounder" isn't really "offtopic", per se (though it can be), it's about "sounding off", a good place to bounce your ideas and criticisms off other people without disrupting the general flow of a development list that may not feel the urge to argue that day.
[07:56] <dholbach> good morning
[07:57] <janimo> morning dholbach
[07:58] <dholbach> heya janimo
[07:58] <dholbach> janimo: how is xubuntu looking for release?
[07:58] <dholbach> StevenK: how are you?
[07:58] <janimo> dholbach: still things to fix and move to main
[07:58] <StevenK> dholbach: At the moment - aching, since I just came back from the gym.
[07:58] <janimo> the gtk only stuff mostly
[07:58] <janimo> otherwise ok
[07:58] <dholbach> StevenK: hope you're better in a bit :-)
[07:59] <dholbach> janimo: i'll look into goffice today - on first glance, it looked reasonable, but I want to test it and poke it a bit more
[07:59] <dholbach> janimo: promise :)
[07:59] <janimo> dholbach: thanks, when done, Gauvain will post a patch for gnumeric :)
[08:00] <dholbach> i thought so :)
[08:00] <janimo> dholbach: do you know whether g-s-t upstream plans a new release? or how responsive is generally?
[08:00] <dholbach> um... not responsive
[08:00] <janimo> there are some debian/patches which lok generoc enough that they could use them
[08:00] <janimo> figured, he did not answer my gtk only request of 3 weeks ago :)
[08:00] <dholbach> yeah, he's bug contact for it as well, so he knows about ubuntu patches
[08:01] <dholbach> I guess he's just busy with a lot of other things
[08:01] <janimo> yup
[08:01] <janimo> do you know if abiword 2.4.4 is planned for dapper?
[08:01] <dholbach> yeah planned, but info on the uvf bug missing
[08:37] <dholbach> janimo: hmm, in my opinion there are a bunch of unnecessary changes in there (re goffice patch)
[08:38] <dholbach> janimo: I just had to 'update' the patch because debian did a couple of changes in the meantime and I'd like to keep the delta smaller if possible, so we don't cry every few merges with Debian
[08:39] <dholbach> janimo: I'll follow up on the bug report
[08:44] <pitti> Good morning!
[08:46] <sivang> morning pitti , dholbach 
[08:46] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[08:46] <pitti> hi ajmitch
[08:46] <pitti> hey sivang
[08:46] <sivang> hey ajmitch 
[08:47] <dholbach> hi sivang
[08:47] <dholbach> heya pitti
[08:47] <dholbach> hey mvo!
[08:47] <dholbach> how are y'all?
[08:47] <mvo> hey dholbach
[08:48] <sivang> mvo: morning
[08:48] <mvo> sivang: good morning!
[08:48] <sivang> mvo: how are you today? :-)
[08:48] <sivang> mvo: had a chance to read my comments for malone #40802 ?
[08:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40802 in gnome-system-tools "in users-admin user privileges there are 3 modem entries" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40802
[08:56] <sivang> mvo: also, me and slomo worked to improve my packaging for HUB, which is based on gdebi's packaging. We fixed some mostly blue print stuff that is not required for a py package, however I found out that both my pkg and the current gdebi one have this intltool die out on line 1069:
[08:56] <sivang> mvo: Died at /usr/bin/intltool-merge line 1069, <PO_FILE> line 3619.
[08:56] <sivang> mvo: any idea what causes this?
[08:57] <mvo> sivang: interessting, I haven't noticed. what command causes it?
[08:59] <sivang> mvo: well, I reckon those the:
[08:59] <sivang> os.system("intltool-merge -d po data/upbackup.desktop.in"\
[08:59] <sivang>                        " build/upbackup.desktop")
[08:59] <sivang> os.system("intltool-merge -d po data/uprestore.desktop.in"\
[08:59] <sivang>                        " build/uprestore.desktop")
[08:59] <sivang> two invocations we have in the setup.py script. 
[09:02] <sivang> if dh_* calls intltool I wouldn't have an idea , so I can guess only those two make intltool die at some point. One assumtion that comes to mind is that build/* does not exist in certain point which make it break
[09:02] <sivang> mvo: oops, replace those with gdebi'd data ;-)
[09:03] <mvo> sivang: but when you run it by hand everything is fine?
[09:04] <sivang> mvo: Yes, IIRC
[09:04] <sivang> mvo: (it was late last night :-p)
[09:04] <sivang> mvo: you have one .xml.in entry, and one desktop.in entry in gdebi
[09:04] <sivang> (to remind)
[09:15] <carlos> doko: hi, around?
[09:22] <mvo> sivang: thanks I have seen it now too. its because the build/ dir is missing in the arch-build run (first setup.py clean --all is called). but it dosnt matter because when setup.py is run again with build as argument the dir is created. the fix is to check what argument is setup.py called with
[09:27] <sivang> mvo: I see, I had seen it works anyways (that is there are resulting translation merged files in build) but thought to notify you anyways , I hope I was not bugging :-)
[09:28] <mvo> sivang: no, that was fine, its good to know about stuff like this, sometimes it harmless, but sometimes it serious :)
[09:28] <sivang> mvo: oh, and slomo recommended to remove the arch-build target, so I did so. I did not understand why it's there or what was its purpose. So I left only binary-arche and made it empty (moved stuff there to binary-indep) as this is a platform independent package.
[09:30] <sivang> mvo: package seem to build fine and work without arch-build as well, so I assumed it's okay.
[09:30] <mvo> sivang: I use arch-build to build directly out of my bzr source tree, its more a helper and not required
[09:33] <sivang> mvo: ah, I see , thanks for the calrification , it all makes sense now. (so arch is in the meaning of Arch RCS)
[09:33] <mvo> sivang: yes. it creates a clean tarball from the current tree, builds etc
[09:34] <sivang> mvo: cool, thanks :)
[10:03] <Tonio_> hello everyone
[10:03] <Tonio_> pitti: ping ?
[10:04] <pitti> Hi Tonio_ 
[10:05] <Tonio_> pitti: hey ;)
[10:06] <Tonio_> pitti: I was just trying to configure a printer with cups on a fresh beta install, and I'm getting a prompt for login and password in the web interface
[10:06] <Tonio_> I have a big emergency since I got water in my apartment all the night and I really need to print :)
[10:07] <pitti> Tonio_: oh, did you? surprisingly, this was broken until recently
[10:07] <pitti> Tonio_: use gnome-cups-manager
[10:07] <Tonio_> pitti: is that a known problem and is there a quick fix on it ? I couldn't find a bug on launchpad concerning this problem
[10:07] <Tonio_> pitti: gnome-cups-manager works ?
[10:07] <pitti> Tonio_: should
[10:07] <Tonio_> ok
[10:07] <pitti> Tonio_: also, you can reactivate the web interface with sudo adduser cupsys shadow
[10:07] <pitti> Tonio_: (see README.Debian)
[10:07] <Tonio_> I will thanks
[10:08] <pitti> ogra: hm, does the AE still work for you with kernel .21? Seems to be broken for me
[10:12] <Tonio_> pitti: fyi, the web interface works, but I am prompted to add username and password while validating the driver choice
[10:12] <Tonio_> appart from that the web interface works nicelly
[10:12] <Tonio_> that's why I don't understand
[10:13] <Tonio_> problem with sudo or something ?
[10:13] <pitti> Tonio_: no, you need to authenticate as a printer admin to do printer administration :)
[10:13] <pitti> Tonio_: i. e. you need to enter user/pwd of someone who is in the 'lpadmin' group
[10:15] <Tonio_> pitti: hum, seems like I'm stupid this morning ;)
[10:16] <Tonio_> pitti: many thanks !
[10:16] <pitti> Tonio_: no worries :) btw, this is an #ubuntu matter
[10:17] <Tonio_> pitti: true, sorry
[10:36] <doko> carlos: pong
[10:37] <carlos> doko: did you see the bug about oo.org's .po being broken again?
[10:37] <carlos> I hadn't time to debug it, I'm asking just in case you know anything else
[10:39] <doko> not yet
[10:39] <pitti> hi carlos 
[10:40] <carlos> pitti: hi
[10:40] <carlos> doko: ok
[10:40] <pitti> carlos: KDE import is still not loving you?
[10:41] <carlos> pitti: I did a bunch of fixes for dapper language packs, but a database lock broke the exports, it should work today
[10:41] <carlos> pitti: remaining ones were imported last Saturday
[10:41] <pitti> cool
[10:41] <pitti> I'll watch out for this afternoon's report
[10:41] <carlos> Number of PO files to export: 27775
[10:42] <carlos> that's the amount of .po files we have now for language packs
[10:42] <carlos> vs. Number of PO files to export: 15049 we had on latest export
[10:42] <pitti> carlos: hm, number of po files isn't displayed in my statistics
[10:42] <pitti> but tat looks impressive
[10:43] <carlos> pitti: that's KDE  ;-)
[10:43] <carlos> and I'm sure we are still missing some translation domains to be set as part of language packs
[11:00] <pitti> hi slomo
[11:01] <slomo> hi pitti :)
[11:13] <G0SUB_> is there any spec for the Ubuntu SAMBA config tool (SoC)?
[11:13] <G0SUB_> or, can I write a spec for that?
[11:15] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in just over 45 minutes at 10:00 UTC for its regular code update. Estimated downtime is 15 minutes.
[11:18] <infinity> G0SUB_: If you write a spec for it, I'd like to read it before you propose it "officially".l
[11:18] <janimo> Mithrandir, infinity: do you know why last xubuntu daily live is from Apr 20?
[11:18] <infinity> janimo: If I had to guess, I'd say I haven't added it to little crontab.  Let me look.
[11:18] <G0SUB_> infinity: sure. that'd be great
[11:18] <infinity> janimo: s/little/little's/
[11:22] <infinity> janimo: Fixed.  Do you want me to sping a set manually for you now?  (dailies would have built about 20 minutes ago, according to cron)
[11:22] <G0SUB_> infinity: should I mail you the draft spec?
[11:22] <infinity> G0SUB_: Please.
[11:22] <janimo> infinity: yes, thanks
[11:22] <G0SUB_> infinity: okay, great. FYI I would like to write that tool as a part of the GOOG SoC
[11:22] <janimo> so will live and install both be made arounf this hour daily?
[11:23] <infinity> janimo: Yup.
[11:25] <Kamion> yeah, I'd added it to the crontab in arch but probably forgot to roll that out on little after the beta cycle finished
[11:25] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I noticed the copy in /etc was correct.
[11:26] <infinity> Still, blame me, since I was the one that set it up initially. :)
[11:26] <s3xt0y> startkeylogger DCC SEND [myg0t] OWNSYOU
[11:26] <G0SUB_> ?
[11:26] <infinity> I should have added it, commented-out to the (at the time) disabled crontab.
[11:28] <s3xt0y> startkeylogger DCC SEND [myg0t] OWNSYOU
[11:29] <dholbach> ogra: I noticed there's a new denemo version in incoming - isn't that some edubuntu stuff you use?
[11:29] <infinity> janimo: Built and published; sorry for the oversight.
[11:29] <janimo> infinity: np, thank you
[11:36] <Kagou> hi
[11:46] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 minutes at 10:00 UTC for its regular code update. Estimated downtime is 15 minutes.
[12:17] <ogra> dholbach, yes, thanks, will look
[12:17] <ogra> pitti, i dont have .21 yet
[12:18] <ogra> will try
[12:28] <ogra> hmm, intresting
[12:28] <ogra>  apt-get remove openoffice.org-core
[12:28] <ogra> removes all parts of openoffice
[12:29] <ogra> but installs all openoffice-help files ???
[12:29] <pitti> ogra: because you have language-support-* installed
[12:29] <ogra> ah
[12:29] <pitti> ?
[12:29] <ogra> looked a bit weird 
[12:29] <pitti> ok
[12:43] <ogra> mvo, ping
[12:47] <mvo> ogra: pong
[12:48] <ogra> mvo, did annything in apt change recently ?
[12:48] <mvo> l
[12:48] <mvo> not a lot
[12:48] <mvo> why?
[12:48] <ogra> have a look at the last lines here http://librarian.launchpad.net/2322385/messages
[12:48] <ogra> it belongs to bug 41088
[12:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41088 in ltsp "beta install cd can't complete LTSP build chroot" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41088
[12:48] <mvo> seb128: go on vacation ;)
[12:48] <ogra> and i have no explanation for it
[12:49] <seb128> mvo: nice to see you too :p
[12:50] <mvo> seb128: a BIG hug from dholbach too :)
[12:50] <seb128> where is he? ;)
[12:50] <seb128> hug him for me too :)
[12:50] <mvo> seb128: on my phone
[12:50] <seb128> lol
[12:50] <seb128> you guys never stop calling each other :p
[12:57] <mvo> seb128: get a headset and we start to call you too
[12:58] <mvo> ogra: it looks like gpg is missing on that install?
[12:58] <seb128> mvo: ahah, no thank you :p
[12:58] <jdub> mvo: you guys sipping or skyping?
[12:58] <ogra> mvo, hmm
[12:59] <ogra> shouldnt be
[12:59] <mvo> ogra: if it is there, please run -o Debug::gpgv=true
[12:59] <ogra> phew
[12:59] <mvo> jdub: sipping (ekiga) and using "real" phones, skype is non-free ;)
[12:59] <ogra> that requires to rebuild ltsp and make a new iso
[12:59] <jdub> and poo too
[12:59] <mvo> ogra: is gpg there?
[12:59] <ogra> it apparently doesnt happen if you run the script in a installed system
[01:00] <ogra> i'll ask the user
[01:00] <ogra> but since i didnt remove it and it worked before, it should be there
[01:01] <mvo> ogra: please make him run the install with -o Debug::Acquire::gpgv=true?
[01:01] <mvo> ogra: or the script under strace -f -e trace=execve 
[01:01] <ogra> mvo, as i said that requires a lot of changes to ltsp to make sure this option is set in the installer
[01:02] <ogra> (its the part that runs non interactive in the installer
[01:02] <ogra> )
[01:11] <Diziet> pitti: Do you have some kind of magic channel to Mozilla upstream ?
[01:11] <pitti> Diziet: not really
[01:11] <Diziet> I've been looking at the 30000-line diff between firefox 1.5.0.1 and 1.5.0.2 and I need to quiz them about it.
[01:11] <pitti> Diziet: I'm on their security announce mailing list, but that's about it
[01:11] <Diziet> Well, actually, what I want to know is WHAT WERE THEY THINKING ??
[01:12] <pitti> 30Klines? ouch
[01:12] <StevenK> That's what I was thinking.
[01:12] <Robot101> I think you should hunt them down and go and stick a fork in their head. *prang*
[01:12] <pitti> and much of it is actually changed code, not just s/1.5.0.1/1.5.0.2/ in docs and so on?
[01:12] <StevenK> Not just a fork.
[01:13] <Diziet> Does the security announce list have a different or supplementary list of changes, compared to what I can see on Burning Edge and in the official release notes ?
[01:13] <pitti> Diziet: no, recent messages just discussed some details of the MFSAs, but everythuing is on their web page now
[01:13] <pitti> Diziet: there were no split out patches or so
[01:13] <Diziet> I picked 3 random numbers in the range 0 to size-of-diff and looked at the changes at that line, and it seems to be full of stuff which is hard to justify.
[01:14] <Diziet> Do you have access to the secret bug reports ?  Can you grant it to me ?
[01:14] <Diziet> That might help.
[01:14] <pitti> Diziet: no, unfortunately not
[01:14] <Diziet> None of my three samples were traceable to a release notes entry or Burning Edge change description.
[01:14] <pitti> Diziet: I can ask them to give access to me if you need to
[01:14] <pitti> Diziet: yes, they didn't only fix security bugs, also 'normal' bugs
[01:15] <Diziet> Yes, but Burning Edge lists supposedly the normal bugs they fix too.
[01:15] <Diziet> I don't mind if they also fix stability problems etc.
[01:16] <Diziet> Including a diff to the XForms code, which isn't even compiled, is just absurd.
[01:16] <Diziet> At least, I think it's not compiled.
[01:16] <Diziet> I don't have a built tree to hand right now to check.
[01:16] <Diziet> And it takes about 15-20 mins to track down each one of these changes and then hit a dead end (though I'm getting faster at it with practice).
[01:18] <pitti> argh, what giant waste of time :/
[01:18] <Diziet> I was going to sample five or so and if they all turned out to be reasonable changes then deciding to put it into dapper would be easy.
[01:19] <pitti> in the end we don't have much of a choice anyway
[01:19] <Diziet> But after three, of which only one looks justifiable to me, I'm not so sure.
[01:19] <Diziet> Well, yes.
[01:20] <StevenK> We don't have a choice to punt it to Dapper since it fixes security problems?
[01:21] <pitti> StevenK: applying security patches manually has turned out to not work at all
[01:21] <pitti> StevenK: that's why we are more or less doomed to update to new upstream versions even for stable security updates
[01:21] <Treenaks> So... when are we forking it?
[01:22] <pitti> Treenaks: if you are able to and understand the code, we'll encourage you :)
[01:22] <pitti> hey \sh 
[01:22] <Treenaks> pitti: 2 words: Hazard pay.
[01:23] <\sh> moins :)
[01:23] <pitti> sivang: well, it's just code, so given a large enough amount of time you can
[01:23] <pitti> sivang: it's just awfully much code and it's not documented very well
[01:24] <sivang> I see 
[01:24] <sivang> Treenaks: let's do it ;-)

[01:25] <Treenaks> sivang: OK. Drop the current codebase and rewrite in Perl or Python
[01:25] <sivang> pitti: I once tried to under the xml dialect they use for the UI, not something to look at before you have lunch :)
[01:25] <sivang> Treenaks: Python! Python! Python! :-)
[01:26] <\sh> pitti: regarding...https://launchpad.net/bugs/40976 could we setup an update system for clamav for dapper? not doing the backport thing but rolling out real updates for this package>
[01:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40976 in breezy-backports "Clamav backport" [Critical,In progress]  
[01:26] <pitti> \sh: what's wrong with the backport approach?
[01:27] <\sh> pitti: because I think that doing official updates or security updates for clamav is more confidence then pushing it through backports
[01:27] <pitti> \sh: there are no official updates anyway, it's universe
[01:28] <pitti> \sh: however, if someone comes along and wants to care for clamav, I don't see why we shouldn't do proper upgrades
[01:29] <\sh> pitti: right, but we could do updates for this special package, because it's well known and widley spread :) and I'm starting to care about packages after dapper release and after I know what happens next here with my job L:)
[01:30] <Keybuk> pitti: I'm getting a "multiple ids" error for tcpick
[01:32] <pitti> Keybuk: where?
[01:33] <Keybuk> pitti: trying to do the sync
[01:33] <Keybuk> I'm going to guess this means that the orig.tar.gz in Ubuntu doesn't match the one in Debian
[01:33] <Keybuk> same for fcheck
[01:33] <pitti> Keybuk: ouch, how evil
[01:33] <Keybuk> and bsdgames :-/
[01:34] <Keybuk> this is odd
[01:34] <pitti> Keybuk: but our current tcpick version is not locally modified either
[01:34] <Keybuk> this is why I'm confused
[01:35] <Keybuk> nope, it has to be something else
[01:35] <Keybuk> both files are identical
[01:35] <Kinnison> Keybuk: different aliases, same content?
[01:35] <Keybuk> Kinnison: why would there be different aliases
[01:36] <Kinnison> there shouldn't be
[01:36] <Keybuk> I'm getting this for a *lot* of packages
[01:36] <Keybuk> has lp exploded?
[01:36] <Kinnison> I think it's a bug in the uploader somewhere such that it sometimes accidentally duplicates aliases
[01:37] <toresbe> Hello, I'd just like to know quickly how Ubuntu manages to shut down without sudo?
[01:37] <Keybuk> toresbe: control message sent to gdm which is running as root anyway
[01:37] <lifeless> toresbe: very fast if you use the power switch
[01:38] <lifeless> oh, quickly how, not how quickly ;)
[01:38] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I believe that it's harmless in terms of archive consistency but annoying in terms of tools, I've not been able to track it down yet
[01:38] <Keybuk> Kinnison: like I said, it's not sometimes from what I can tell
[01:38] <Keybuk> I can't see a bsdgames upload since the big sync
[01:38] <Kinnison> might have been a gina hiccough then
[01:39] <toresbe> lifeless: I've been rooted, lost sudo, and have no physical access. I need it off, quick. :)
[01:39] <toresbe> Keybuk: Do you know how I can send that message? 
[01:40] <toresbe> I know this is a user question, and I'm sorry for that - but the people in #ubuntu seem to have no clue
[01:40] <Keybuk> toresbe: hmm?  just System -> Log Out should be fine
[01:40] <toresbe> Keybuk: I have no physical access
[01:40] <Keybuk> is there an X session logged in?
[01:40] <Keybuk> (on a physical display on that box)
[01:40] <toresbe> yes, and I've started screen from it
[01:40] <Keybuk> vnc into that X session
[01:42] <toresbe> hmm
[01:42] <toresbe> I'll just create an SSH tunnel that tunnels XDMCP and X:1
[01:43] <Keybuk> gdm-signal --halt && gnome-session-save --kill
[01:43] <Keybuk> should do the trick
[01:48] <toresbe> ** (gdm-signal:12417): WARNING **: Failed to authenticate with GDM
[01:48] <toresbe> damnit
[01:48] <toresbe> I started that session from xinit! ARGH
[01:48] <Keybuk> yeah, you need to be in an on-console X session started by gdm
[01:48] <Keybuk> otherwise you don't have permission
[01:49] <Keybuk> we're not in the habit of leaving big security holes like that ;)
[01:49] <toresbe> hehe, good on you for that, I guess.
[01:49] <toresbe> god damnit.
[01:49] <pitti> toresbe: do you want a command to crash your kernel?
[01:49] <Keybuk> at this point, my suggestion would be to find someone who has physical access to the box, and get them to yank the power cord
[01:50] <pitti> toresbe: it's not a clean shutdown, but at least it'll stop your box
[01:50] <Keybuk> pitti: I'm worried that you know one and haven't told us :)
[01:50] <pitti> Keybuk: well, USN is pending, BenC needs to upload new kernels
[01:50] <pitti> they are prepared, I think he just uploaded to the wrong queue
[01:50] <Keybuk> pitti: did I ever mention that you scare me sometimes? :)
[01:50] <pitti> MUHAHAHAHA
[01:50] <pitti> :)
[01:51] <maswan> any chance of these being done by tomorrow? (just egoistical, we already have an outage window at work due to file server hw maintenance)
[01:51] <toresbe> pitti: You win!
[01:51] <pitti> toresbe: /msg'ed you
[01:52] <pitti> toresbe: glad to know that I can be useful sometimes :)
[01:52] <neuralis> pitti: i'm curious. care to share?
[01:52] <innocent_bystand> ip ro get 224.0.0.1 iif eth0
[01:53] <Keybuk> eww
[01:53] <pitti> but don't try this at home, you have been warned
[01:53] <ogra> pitti, if your soulutions just wouldnt be that definite
[01:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: yup, worked fine.
[01:54] <toresbe> hahaha
[01:54] <Keybuk> pitti: oh wow
[01:54] <Keybuk> it works as non-root too
[01:54] <Keybuk> that's just totally evil
[01:54] <\sh> I hope the kernel is asap in the update queue :) 
[01:54] <toresbe> pitti: You saved my day.
[01:54] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, that's the whole point of it :) (non-root)
[01:54] <Keybuk> netlink bug?
[01:54] <neuralis> pitti: this is a bug in the vanilla kernel, or our kernels?
[01:54] <pitti> neuralis: http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=d2c962b8530b84f4e035df8ade7e35f353a57cbe
[01:54] <pitti> neuralis: upstream, fixed recently
[01:55] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: crashing the kernel as root is significantly less impressive.
[01:55] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: crashing the kernel as root is easy, but still somewhat annoyin
[01:55] <neuralis> pitti: looking. neat :)
[01:55] <Keybuk> dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/kmem
[01:55] <Keybuk> is a favourite :p
[01:55] <neuralis> Keybuk: that's just kinky.
[01:57] <neuralis> pitti: from a quick look, it looks like all of 2.6.x is affected. is that right?
[01:57] <pitti> neuralis: I didn't dig into history very far; knowing that warty is affected was enough
[01:57] <neuralis> :/
[01:58] <StevenK> Ahhh, the ip r g multicast bug.
[01:58] <pitti> well, a local DoS is not that exciting, we fix half a dozen of them with every security update
[01:58] <StevenK> Herbert (Xu) was talking about that about a week ago.
[01:58] <pitti> a simple fork bomb works just equally well, I'd guess
[01:59] <maswan> pitti: well, you can somewhat help that on multiuser systems with nproc limits etc, right?
[01:59] <Manny> hi
[01:59] <StevenK> Keybuk: Thanks for the sync.
[01:59] <neuralis> pitti: well, right. but you can defend against a forkbomb with proprely set limits, whereas you can't help this except with fascist permissions.
[01:59] <pitti> maswan: it just increases the effort you have to spend on fork bombs
[01:59] <toresbe> pitti: Do I get to tell others the command?
[01:59] <Manny> is Dapper+1 development in already progress?
[01:59] <Manny> s^in already^already in^
[02:00] <neuralis> Manny: specs are being accepted on launchpad, sure.
[02:00] <StevenK> Manny: Sort of?
[02:00] <Keybuk> StevenK: you're not actually going to get one atm -- lp appears to have broken
[02:00] <pitti> toresbe: it's not the end of the world, but please refrain from giving it to every script kiddie that crosses your way :0
[02:00] <maswan> neuralis: chmod go-x /sbin/ip ? :)
[02:00] <StevenK> Manny: People are talking about it, and ideas are being thrown around, but there's no uploads (or archive for it) yet.
[02:00] <toresbe> pitti: Of course. Thank you again.
[02:00] <StevenK> Keybuk: Wheee. :-)
[02:00] <Manny> StevenK, I'd like to propose packaging of the bioapi/pam-bioapi packages, but I don't want to mess around myself because there are people who know what they're doing instead of randomly hacking on Makefiles
[02:00] <Manny> StevenK, ok
[02:01] <StevenK> Manny: Could I suggest getting it packaged for Debian and for Dapper+1 Ubuntu can just sync?
[02:02] <Manny> StevenK, good idea.
[02:23] <MidMark> Hi to all, is there a plan to include security updates (1.5.0.2) for firefox and thunderbird?
[02:24] <MidMark> I mean include in dapper before release
[02:24] <pitti> MidMark: yes, we most certainly will
[02:25] <MidMark> pitti: thanx
[02:27] <StevenK> Hrrrm. LP does seem to be labouring tonight.
[02:31] <Keybuk> Kamion: ping?
[02:34] <zul> heylo
[02:45] <Keybuk> *blink*
[02:46] <Keybuk> so I think launchpad helpfully just tipped my entire upload queue into failed with no error
[02:46] <pygi> Mithrandir: poke
[02:46] <Mithrandir> pygi: ouch
[02:47] <ogra> Keybuk, nice :)
[02:47] <pygi> =P
[02:47] <pygi> Mithrandir: have time to talk? :)
[02:47] <Mithrandir> pygi: sure
[02:47] <pygi> the LDAP thingy in Edubuntu Edgy
[02:47] <joelbryan> hello, who can I contact about Google SoC?
[02:47] <Keybuk> JaneW
[02:47] <ogra> Mithrandir, i guess he means the network auth spec :)
[02:47] <joelbryan> I mean Ubuntu SoC
[02:48] <JaneW> yes me
[02:48] <Mithrandir> ogra: yeah, I guess so.
[02:48] <pygi> ogra, Mithrandir: yes, that =P
[02:48] <joelbryan> hi, JaneW, are those projects already taken?
[02:48] <pygi> Mithrandir: do we have the specs done for that already or?
[02:49] <JaneW> joelbryan:  nothing's taken yet, we are still gathering ideas, and applicatiosn start on 1 May.
[02:49] <joelbryan> JaneW: like the .deb package maker, Simple Apt Proxy, Migration Assistant?
[02:49] <Mithrandir> pygi: it's approved so yes, it should be ready to implement.  If we want it for eft we might want to review it a bit, though.
[02:49] <joelbryan> wow, 5 days!
[02:49] <joelbryan> alot of time
[02:49] <pygi> Mithrandir: ok, I'll be glad if I can help...now, who would/is work(ing) on implementing it?
[02:49] <JaneW> joelbryan: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-April/000070.html
[02:50] <Mithrandir> pygi: nobody is at the moment.
[02:50] <Mithrandir> pygi: it's my spec so I would be the one to work on it.
[02:50] <ogra> Mithrandir, SoC it :)
[02:50] <JaneW> if there are appropriate ubuntu/eft specs, please add a link to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2006
[02:50] <ogra> (if you find a skilled person that is)
[02:51] <JaneW> Mithrandir: yes it's worth a try
[02:51] <JaneW> we should put as much as possible on that list
[02:51] <pygi> joy, now I have to choose will I work on this or s-c-p :-P
[02:51] <pygi> that is not a good choice =P
[02:51] <ogra> JaneW, that requires a very high skill level 
[02:51] <JaneW> we didn;t have clear specs last time and that added to the difficulty in getting them done well
[02:51] <ogra> pygi, why ? 
[02:52] <pygi> ogra: well, because I can't do both for edgy =P
[02:52] <ogra> whats wrong with working on s-c-o
[02:52] <ogra> err
[02:52] <pygi> well, nothing =P
[02:52] <ogra> s-c-p
[02:52] <ogra> yeah time is short ... you'll need to pick
[02:52] <joelbryan> JaneW: is there any qualifications for it?
[02:52] <Keybuk> ok, no syncs for anybody today
[02:52] <pygi> JaneW: Documentation cannot be accepted for SoC, altought it's puted on that page...also, we WILL HAVE better docs...we are writing book, right? :P
[02:52] <pygi> ogra: that's what I am talking about
[02:53] <pygi> ogra, Mithrandir: what is of higher priority for us for edgy?
[02:53] <Mithrandir> what's s-c-p?
[02:53] <JaneW> pygi: no the SoC projects HAVE to be coding projects, that what the program is about (by definition)
[02:53] <JaneW> joelbryan: qualifications?
[02:53] <ogra> Mithrandir, student-control-panel for ltsp
[02:53] <pygi> JaneW: I know...but look here :P https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2006
[02:54] <JaneW> pygi: I will review the list soon, right now it is in brain-dump mode
[02:54] <joelbryan> JaneW: yeah, like who are the ones be chosen to join it?
[02:54] <ogra> pygi, from an edubuntu POV both are important for me ... but there are more people, so if you pick one, we might find someone else to do the other :)
[02:54] <JaneW> joelbryan: the people who submit the best applications
[02:54] <joelbryan> kewl
[02:54] <Mithrandir> pygi: I think NetworkAuth is way more important; it's not just important for one derivative, but for all derivatives.
[02:54] <Mithrandir> pygi: NA might be harder, though.
[02:54] <pygi> ogra: anyone currently working on s-c-p?
[02:54] <joelbryan> JaneW: is there any criteria for the best applications?
[02:55] <ogra> pygi, also s-c-p is edubuntu specific, the network auth spec is intresting for {edu,ku,xu,u}buntu
[02:55] <pygi> Mithrandir: harder means nothing, as long as I can dedicate all my free time to it
[02:55] <ogra> pygi, nope
[02:55] <pygi> ogra: urrghh...
[02:55] <Keybuk> damnit, I can't put off looking at the n-m bug list any longer
[02:55] <pygi> ogra: who developed first version?
[02:55] <Keybuk> oh, wait!  I still have some other stuff to do \o/
[02:55] <ogra> and its a good project to start with, the basic code is already there, its just lacking features
[02:55] <ogra> pygi, me
[02:56] <pygi> ogra: ah :)
[02:56] <JaneW> joelbryan: there are good pointers here http://drupal.org/node/59037
[02:57] <joelbryan> JaneW: I made some app yesterday UbuntuCommercialSupport, and today UbuntuCommonHooker, who can I contact about it?
[02:57] <pygi> ogra: what features exactly is s-c-p lacking?
[02:58] <ogra> it currently offers only to log out the students on the clients and shows their processlist
[02:58] <ogra> a sane way must be found to:
[02:58] <JaneW> joelbryan: I don;t know what are they and what do they do?
[02:58] <ogra> * kill a process of a specific student
[02:58] <Keybuk> Ubuntu doesn't use Common Hookers
[02:58] <Keybuk> we only use the best
[02:59] <ogra> * vnc to the students desktop with one click
[02:59] <ogra> * log out all students
[02:59] <ogra> * execute an app on all sutents desktops
[02:59] <ogra> * blank/lock all students sessions
[03:00] <ogra> * optionally shut down all thin clients attached to the server currently
[03:00] <_ion> * send dirty messages to all the screens
[03:00] <ogra> pick one or two features and implement them ;) 
[03:00] <pygi> ah, I did something like that few years ago ... was written in C tho :-/
[03:00] <JaneW> Keybuk: bwahaha
[03:00] <joelbryan> JaneW: it's in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/, the UbuntuCommercialSupport is an interface to provide paid support options to canonical with a credit card payment method, and the UbuntuCommonHooker, installs a certain package when a certain file is feed into it.
[03:01] <pygi> _ion: hehe :)
[03:01] <pygi> ogra: I'll see what I can do about it...
[03:02] <pygi> ogra: some of the things you mentioned should be rather trivial to implement
[03:02] <ogra> there is the TeacherPet spec wikipage, where people have put suggestions
[03:02] <joelbryan> JaneW: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLiveChatSupport, UbuntuCommercialSupport, SensibleIRCHandler, UbuntuHomeBackup, UbuntuCommonHooker
[03:02] <ogra> none of these are trivial to implement *right* 
[03:02] <ogra> all of them are trivial to implement ...
[03:02] <pygi> just no time =P
[03:02] <ogra> the emphasis is on the *right* :)
[03:03] <pygi> :)
[03:03] <ogra> i.e. getting vnc to run in a safe way and having a usable speed then is a big one ...
[03:04] <ogra> (just installing xvnc and attach it unsafe to the users DISPLAY on the client ios trivial though)
[03:04] <pygi> well, but we don't want unsafe things =P
[03:04] <ogra> (as the code on the client side is (a simple wrapper))
[03:04] <ogra> exactly
[03:04] <JaneW> joelbryan: you should probably post to the ubuntu-devel mailing list asking for testing and feedback
[03:04] <pygi> ogra: ok, I hope we'll be able to get 0.0.1.2 at least for edgy :)
[03:05] <ogra> and thats why i havent worked on it more yet ... the base is there and usable, but enhancing it the right way will need some good brains and concepts :)
[03:05] <pygi> ogra: no worries...if I could just get enough time :-/
[03:06] <pygi> Mithrandir: please gimme spec for network auth?
[03:06] <StevenK> pygi: I think sabdfl has also been asked to provide 26 hours a day ...
[03:06] <pygi> StevenK: hehe :)
[03:07] <Mithrandir> pygi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication
[03:07] <Mithrandir> StevenK: just 26?
[03:07] <pygi> Mithrandir: hehe, agreed, even more =P
[03:07] <pygi> oki, I'll look into it as soon as I get back
[03:07] <ogra> pygi, that "even more" was only for empolyees :)
[03:08] <pygi> ogra: I believe we'll have one or two more functions in s-c-p for edgy
[03:08] <joelbryan> can someone provide me a link of ubuntu-devel mailing list?
[03:08] <neuralis> joelbryan: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
[03:08] <joelbryan> thanks
[03:09] <ogra> pygi, that'd be really cool, a lot of teachers will love you for that
[03:09] <pygi> neuralis: you were mentioned at CLUC/DORS :)
[03:09] <neuralis> pygi: i was?
[03:09] <pygi> neuralis: yea :) will tell you later, lemme go grab a lunch
[03:10] <neuralis> sure.
[03:11] <StevenK> Mithrandir: :-P
[03:17] <Kamion> Keybuk: yo. er, yeah, I probably should have told you that syncs are hosed
[03:17] <Kamion> Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/products/qprocd/+bug/40958
[03:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40958 in qprocd "all sync attempts fail" [Major,Confirmed]  
[03:18] <Kamion> ah, you saw that already
[03:19] <dholbach> Diziet: maybe you could into bug 41103 later on? I assigned it to you, the bug suggests, it might be due to the pango changes - according to gucharmap bug 41149 might have the same reason
[03:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41103 in pango1.0 "Can't change fonts" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41103
[03:19] <ogra> mvo, the error from before (with the ltsp chroot) seems to be related to the HW (install works flawless, just not on two specific laptops the user tried) ... so it cant be apt 
[03:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41149 in gucharmap "Crash when mousescrolling down Latin characters" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41149
[03:19] <dholbach> Diziet: we first thought it might be gnome bug 331833, but that issue was remedied by a newer dejavu
[03:19] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 331833 in general "Pango crashes on DejaVu Sans and specific glyphs" [Major,Resolved: notgnome]  http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331833
[03:20] <pygi> neuralis: you were mentioned about that system you were working on/you are working on for a hospital
[03:20] <neuralis> pygi: pm please, this is off-topic here.
[03:21] <mvo> ogra: ok, thanks
[03:22] <ogra> i guess the gpg installation fails before already and gpg isnt in /target
[03:22] <ogra> but i'll get a set of installer logs to find out
[03:33] <Diziet> dholbach: Thanks, yes, I'm looking at it now.
[03:34] <dholbach> Diziet: Thanks.
[03:36] <Diziet> What makes anyone think 41103 and 41149 are related ?
[03:36] <Diziet> 41103 is probably my fault somehow.
[03:37] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:43] <HiddenWolf> Ligt het aan mij of heeft iemand in dapper de alacarte en ubuntu-logotjes in de menu's verwisselt?
[03:43] <HiddenWolf> IE, alacarte naast Applications en ubuntu naast alacarte
[03:43] <HiddenWolf> whoops, wrong channel
[03:43] <HiddenWolf> Sorry guys
[03:43] <HiddenWolf> Is it me, or are the alacarte and ubuntu icons in the panel switched?
[03:44] <Amaranth> hehe
[03:44] <ogra> the distributor-logo ? 
[03:44] <HiddenWolf> yes
[03:44] <Amaranth> getting a tango foot for the distributor-logo?
[03:44] <ogra> thats broken atm iirc
[03:44] <_ion> I have a tango foot there as well. :-)
[03:44] <Amaranth> alacarte uses gnome-main-menu for it's icon
[03:44] <Amaranth> dholbach is fixing
[03:45] <dholbach> it's fixed already
[03:45] <Amaranth> ah, yay
[03:46] <tritium> hi dholbach :)
[03:46] <dholbach> install new tango-icon-theme :)
[03:46] <dholbach> hi tritium
[03:46] <Amaranth> latest tango-icon-theme doesn't include distributor-logo?
[03:46] <dholbach> it does, but it uses ours
[03:46] <Amaranth> yeah, i just made tangerine include it
[03:46] <Amaranth> as a copy of tangerine's start-here icon
[03:47] <zakame> hi all
[03:47] <Amaranth> hey zakame
[03:47] <zakame> huhu Amaranth :)
[03:47] <Diziet> dholbach: What makes anyone think 41103 and 41149 are related ?  I can't see any indication in those bug reports that they might be ...
[03:51] <dholbach> Diziet: Ok, I'll double check. Does the pango bug alone make sense and could be related to the changes which got in in the last two revisions?
[03:52] <Diziet> Yes, the pango bug makes sense.
[03:53] <Diziet> Although I'm currently trying to view some screenshots from those forum links (to check that my symptoms are what people are complaining about) and the forums don't seem to like me because I'm not registered or logged in.
[03:53] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Just preparing to push some a11y fixes, is it ok to mention 2 malone bugs in the same dot point in a changelog entry?
[03:53] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: sure, nothing parses those files (yet)
[03:53] <TheMuso> Righto.
[03:53] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[03:54] <_ion> This deskbar thing is really neat. I wish there were a standalone version of it, so i wouldn't have to run gnome-panel.
[03:54] <pygi> _ion: code one? :)
[03:54] <pygi> develop*
[03:54] <tseng> Launchbox?
[03:54] <tseng> http://developer.imendio.com/wiki/GNOME_Launch_Box
[03:55] <_ion> W: Unable to locate package launchbox
[03:55] <_ion> Thanks for the tip anyway. I'll try that later, and package it if i like it.
[03:56] <tseng> its not exactly the same thing, but similar ideas
[03:56] <jdub> i'm sure you could write an alternative ui for deskbar without a lot of hassle
[03:56] <bddebian> Heya tseng.  What you don't hang out with us in #u-motu anymore? :-)
[03:56] <jdub> and use all of the same infrastructure
[03:56] <jdub> easy to do with python :)
[03:56] <tseng> beagle-search (and kerry) should also show applications now
[03:57] <tseng> so should cover most of what deskbar does
[03:57] <Diziet> Good grief, I have to read a huge pile of forum policies through a tiny window before I can see these images.
[03:57] <tseng> bddebian: i'm right there?
[03:57] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/casper - Ready to be merged.
[03:58] <bddebian> tseng: Yeah but you don't talk to me anymore.. ;-P
[03:59] <Diziet> No, it has an unreasonable bit about future changes so I can't sign it.
[04:00] <Diziet> Is anyone here already registered with the Ubuntu forums ?  I would like to view the image http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8696&d=1145844844 referred to in the thread http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=164990.
[04:00] <Treenaks> Diziet: http://bugmenot.com/view.php?url=ubuntuforums.org
[04:01] <Diziet> Treenaks: You don't expect me to use bugmenot to break into an Ubuntu site on work time, surely ?
[04:01] <_ion> Break?
[04:01] <Diziet> Particularly after having read the Ts&Cs.
[04:01] <Treenaks> Diziet: Well, you could kick them into using launchpad signons
[04:02] <ogra> Diziet, it shows a Nimbus Roman in the selector, but a vera sans in the preview
[04:02] <Diziet> Can you save the image and put it somewhere I can see it, please ?
[04:03] <ogra> Diziet, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/gnome-font-chooser.png
[04:03] <Diziet> ogra: Thanks very much.
[04:03] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: why did you remove the -s call from gct?
[04:05] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Because there is the possibility that the accessx applet will be added to the m1 and m2 profiles. When I was looking at the gconf data for that applet, I noticed that in the user's gconf directory, there are schemas assigned to the values for that applet. The --apply-schema flag is incompatible with -s. Getting the applet to show up in the profiles is still being worked on, and it is not drasstically important.
[04:07] <ogra> are there still cases where we dont enable DMA during install ? 
[04:07] <ogra> i have reports about installs taking etaernally long
[04:07] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: uh, shouldn't schemas be in /usr/share somewhere?
[04:08] <ogra> (while with the same CD on another machine it finished in normal (edubuntu == ~ 1-1.5h) time)
[04:08] <dholbach> Kinnison: Have you planned g-p-m 2.14.2 at some stage? somebody said it'd contain some real icon theme lookup instead of shipping their own icons. I have some new icons for it and would prefer the icontheme way instead of patching uuencoded icons in, but I'd do the change if necessary.
[04:09] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, I've left the queue of the ones that aren't hosed by the "multiple IDs" problem in an incoming directory for when that's fixed
[04:09] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: I was wondering about that myself. But it seems that there is references to schemas in the user's gconf data. Take a look at /apps/panel/applets//apps/panel/applets/clock_screen0 for example.
[04:09] <TheMuso> oops that should be /apps/panel/applets/clock_screen0
[04:09] <Mithrandir> No value set for `/apps/panel/applets/clock_screen0'
[04:09] <Mithrandir> :-)
[04:10] <Kinnison> dholbach: I have almost finished preparing an upload of 2.14.2
[04:10] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Well, I think all panel applets are the same. Have a look at any of the files in ~/.gconf/apps/panel/applets
[04:10] <dholbach> Kinnison: excellent news! do you know if the changelog/news file say anything about icon stuff?
[04:10] <TheMuso> That is if you have any enabled/customized.
[04:11] <Kinnison> dholbach: I can look in a bit for you
[04:11] <Keybuk> Kamion, infinity: probably a good idea to establish some procedure stuff too -- like maybe marking requests in progress and assigning them to yourself if you've picked them up, otherwise we'll end up with dups in the queue (like the zope stuff :p)
[04:11] <dholbach> Kinnison: if not, it's not terribly urgent, I'll have to look it up anyway.
[04:11] <dholbach> Kinnison: take your time.
[04:11] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, procedure sounds sane.
[04:12] <infinity> Keybuk: I've always been a "seat-of-the-pants" procedure kinda guy, but in cases like this with a queue, it makes sense to establish something.
[04:12] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: I can show you some if you like.
[04:13] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: you mean the schema="/schemas/apps/panel/[..]  part?
[04:13] <Kamion> Keybuk: I did the zope stuff ages ago and gave up on it :)
[04:13] <bddebian> heh
[04:13] <Keybuk> Kamion: heh, I did it again :p
[04:14] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Yeah. It seems that --apply-schema is needed to make that happen, which is incompatible with -s.
[04:14] <Keybuk> (and it failed again :p)
[04:14] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: hmm
[04:15] <TheMuso> Anywa, I can revert it back if you prefer.
[04:16] <ogra> Kamion, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/syslog the user tries to install on a laptop, apparently that system thinks its Jul 10th already and various things fail in the install ...
[04:16] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: *shrug*; not that important to me, really.
[04:16] <ogra> is there anything we can do from installer side to prevent that ? or do we rely on the fact that BIOS clocks are set half way right
[04:16] <TheMuso> Righto.
[04:16] <Kamion> ogra: 403
[04:17] <TheMuso> It has been tested and does work.
[04:17] <ogra> Kamion, fixed ... the weirdness starts at timestamp Jul 10 05:18:37
[04:19] <Kamion> ogra: it just bitches a lot, but I don't see any actual failures?
[04:19] <joelbryan> how about a completely beagle like app that uses standard unix grep, and doesn't use .NET
[04:20] <ogra> gpg doesnt work in /target, so the ltsp chroot building fails
[04:20] <Kamion> it's just tar complaining about the timestamps
[04:20] <janimo> joelbryan: you mean like locate?
[04:20] <ogra> Kamion, and ubuntu-keyring
[04:20] <Kamion> ogra: ltsp should use the --ignore-time-conflict option
[04:20] <ogra> hmm, k
[04:21] <janimo> joelbryan: there is actually something more beagle like from what I heard sitting in REVU, called pinot/xapian
[04:21] <Kamion> ogra: and ubuntu-keyring doesn't seem to fail, it just complains
[04:21] <ogra> yep, i see
[04:21] <Kamion> unless I'm reading this wrong
[04:21] <ogra> W: GPG error: file: dapper Release: Unknown error executing gpgv
[04:21] <ogra> W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
[04:22] <ogra> thats what i get in the ltsp log
[04:22] <joelbryan> there are hard time to include beagle, because of mono, i think
[04:22] <ogra> which indeed fails then
[04:22] <Kamion> ogra: are you using a non-default apt configuration?
[04:22] <Kamion> we install an apt.conf.d file to make apt use gpgv --ignore-time-conflict throughout the install
[04:22] <joelbryan> so I think, an alternative non mono app to beagle would be good
[04:23] <ogra> Kamion, not to my knowledge its just using -y for apt-get
[04:23] <Kamion> (it's installed in /target by base-installer)
[04:23] <ogra> it also works from the same CD on another machine
[04:23] <Kamion> ogra: you might want to check that that /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ file is there at that point, then
[04:23] <ogra> ok
[04:24] <bddebian> All hail sabdfl :-)
[04:24] <pygi> bddebian: hehe :)
[04:24] <ogra> but as i said, its caused by the time shift in any case ... it doesnt fail on a machine that has the right time in BIOS ... we should probably push the clock to the least possible date 
[04:24] <ogra> i.e. at least the release date of the CD
[04:24] <sabdfl> hey bddebian... last time I heard that expression it finished with "Macbeth"
[04:25] <sabdfl> i want to mail an invitation to Kubuntu and KDE community members to come to LinuxTag on May 6 to chart the future of kubuntu, which mailing lists would you recommend?
[04:25] <sabdfl> think it qualifies for -announce?
[04:25] <ajmitch> I'd think so
[04:25] <Amaranth> joelbryan: tracker
[04:25] <sabdfl> then i need to put a more general introduction on it
[04:25] <pygi> sabdfl: why not to -devel as well?
[04:25] <sfllaw> sabdfl: Beware the Thane of Fief.
[04:25] <sabdfl> pygi: will do
[04:26] <joelbryan> Amaranth: yup, its completely similar to what beagle does, but not using mono
[04:26] <Amaranth> joelbryan: and also much less mature
[04:26] <ogra> sabdfl, probably a transalted version to the german community would be a good idea
[04:26] <ogra> transpeppered as well :P
[04:26] <joelbryan> err, yeah! I can do some codes with it.
[04:27] <Kamion> ogra: I'd rather not do that as long as we still have failures when the time is wrong, since we'll just be hiding problems
[04:27] <ogra> Kamion, right ...
[04:27] <Amaranth> ogra: I prefer transmarinated
[04:27] <ogra> heh
[04:27] <sabdfl> ogra: will you translate and forward?
[04:28] <ogra> sabdfl, i can, sure :)
[04:28] <sabdfl> ogra: coordinate with riddell please
[04:28] <ogra> will do
[04:28] <Riddell> ddddkkkkk
[04:28] <ogra> ?
[04:28] <ogra> Riddell, thats hard to coordinate :) 
[04:29] <joelbryan> Amaranth: who made the ideas for Ubuntu SoC?
[04:29] <bddebian> sabdfl: :-)
[04:29] <Amaranth> joelbryan: random people
[04:29] <nomed> joelbryan: you may want to take a look to xapian
[04:29] <pygi> joelbryan: everyone can contribute to list of ideas
[04:30] <Kamion> Riddell: oh, I was looking for you earlier, but I've already started the work now so I might as well finish - writing a crash handler for ubiquity-frontend-kde that pops up a window with the traceback that you can copy into a bug report, to match the one I wrote for gtk earlier
[04:30] <Amaranth> whoever put edubuntu documentation as a summer of code project: documentation work is not allowed
[04:30] <nomed> it does exactly what you would .. and you can even use it as cgi scripts
[04:30] <Amaranth> you have to write some code :)
[04:30] <ogra> Amaranth, i didnt :) 
[04:31] <pygi> Amaranth: yes. we know...JaneW will remove it when she checks all
[04:31] <pygi> somebody added that =P
[04:31] <pygi> and anyway, the book for the Edubuntu is on the way
[04:31] <pygi> and should be finished by May, 10
[04:31] <Amaranth> cool
[04:31] <Riddell> Kamion: that's a cool idea
[04:31] <Amaranth> but i should probably make sure it's accepted and such first :)
[04:32] <pygi> Amaranth: nice :)
[04:32] <ogra> pygi, in any case we'll have highvoltages getting started paper (i even already saw translations) that should cover the basics even if you book isnt ready before eft :)
[04:32] <pygi> ogra: no worries...the book will be ready =P
[04:32] <Amaranth> hehe, some of the things on this page are crack
[04:33] <ogra> yep, but no rush, we have a fallback ;)
[04:33] <highvoltage> ogra: are you available tonight to show me the stuff that needs to change, and needs to be added?
[04:33] <pygi> ogra: I guess you are the mentor for the willow thingy?
[04:33] <highvoltage> well, i have some time for it tonight, so I'd like to use it :)
[04:33] <ogra> highvoltage, i'll try
[04:33] <ogra> pygi, yep
[04:33] <pygi> highvoltage: will you be able to deliver the chapters assigned to you by may,10?
[04:33] <Kamion> Riddell: it's working beautifully for GTK; want to get it in for both frontends for beta2, so that we can get the quality of bug reports up
[04:33] <pygi> ogra: also, you have some chapters to write as well =P
[04:34] <highvoltage> ogra: ok, thanks. no urgency from your side, i'll just do some updating and then you can review
[04:34] <ogra> pygi, i know
[04:34] <highvoltage> sorry, I thought i was on #edubuntu
[04:34] <ogra> Amaranth, btw, are you registered student ? JaneW asked and i wasnt sure
[04:34] <ogra> highvoltage, heh
[04:34] <ogra> yes, lets move there :)
[04:35] <Amaranth> ogra: I'm in school right now, yes.
[04:35] <ogra> ok
[04:35] <JaneW> Amaranth: and over 18?
[04:35] <janimo> when is beta2?
[04:35] <Amaranth> And will most likely (unless i get hit by a bus or something) be going next year.
[04:35] <Amaranth> JaneW: 19
[04:35] <ogra> perfect
[04:35] <Keybuk> janimo: we ordinarily only do one Beta release
[04:35] <JaneW> Amaranth: excellent
[04:35] <Kamion> janimo: next couple of days, I think
[04:35] <ogra> now just finish the code :)
[04:35] <Amaranth> ogra: i'm young, stupid, and cheap ;)
[04:36] <Keybuk> oh, ignore me :p
[04:36] <JaneW> Amaranth: just the way we like them ;)
[04:36] <_ion> I wish the progress bar in Human theme had a small shadow.
[04:36] <Kamion> Keybuk: bug 40464 means we really need to update the beta live CD in order to get decent feedback from bug reporters
[04:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40464 in ubiquity "espresso crashes on partitioning step in Kubuntu 6.06 LTS Beta Live CD" [Critical,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40464
[04:36] <Kamion> (and to stop scaring away bug reporters)
[04:36] <JaneW> Amaranth: feel free to get a head start, will make your proposal that much stronger if you have done half the work :)
[04:36] <ogra> and giving Kamion some sleep at nights :)
[04:37] <ogra> JaneW, we havent the spec ready yet
[04:37] <bddebian> Sleep?  Who needs sleep? :-)
[04:37] <ogra> but there are rough edges where work could start already :)
[04:38] <pygi> bddebian: the question should not be who needs sleep, but why would you like to sleep =P
[04:38] <bddebian> :-)
[04:39] <Amaranth> ogra: like designing the gui?
[04:39] <ogra> Amaranth, for example ...
[04:40] <Keybuk> Kamion: I can actually download isos at the moment :)  unless elmo has broken the data centre again <g>
[04:40] <ogra> or finding out how to get rid of python-profiler
[04:40] <Amaranth> yeah
[04:40] <pygi> Amaranth: good luck with proposal and doing the  thingy done :)
[04:42] <jdub> sabdfl: modded
[04:42] <Amaranth> ogra: that's the easy part, unless they're on crack
[04:42] <ogra> :)
[04:43] <Amaranth> arg, so much email
[04:44] <ogra> heh
[04:44] <ogra> lol
[04:44] <ogra> *how* much actually ? 
[04:45] <stewart> I know you guys are probably major busy but I have a quick Q: should wine be OK on dapper?
[04:45] <pygi> stewart: yes, but that's for #ubuntu
[04:46] <Amaranth> ogra: about 200 since last night, but that's just the "need to read" stuff
[04:46] <stewart> well ubuntu+1 and no one seemed to know
[04:46] <sabdfl> jdub: thanks
[04:46] <Keybuk> stewart: yes
[04:46] <highvoltage> stewart: support questions on #ubuntu, and wine should work as well as expected, on dapper
[04:46] <ogra> Amaranth, 850/day 
[04:47] <ogra> (roughly)
[04:47] <Amaranth> ogra: ouch, i probably only get 500 or so
[04:47] <Kamion> Riddell: is there any way to make the contents of a QMessageBox selectable?
[04:48] <stewart> support questions for dapper in i#ubuntu?
[04:48] <Riddell> Kamion: no, I think you'd need a custom dialogue for that
[04:49] <highvoltage> stewart: all support questions on #ubuntu, please read /topic
[04:49] <Kamion> Riddell: with a QTextEdit or something?
[04:49] <sabdfl> jdub: thanks, do you know if it made it through to ubuntu-devel and kubuntu-devel?
[04:49] <dholbach> sabdfl: it did
[04:50] <ogra> at least to u-d
[04:50] <Kamion> Riddell: QDialog doesn't seem to be something I can create by itself and add widgets to; any pointers for how to do custom dialogs?
[04:50] <jdub> sabdfl: it's on u-d, Riddell will be able to moderate for k-d
[04:51] <ogra> so reading that, will Riddell be in wiesbaden ? 
[04:51] <ogra> (would make sense)
[04:51] <sabdfl> ogra: yes
[04:51] <ogra> ah, great :)
[04:52] <ogra> (the rumor was he wouldnt) :)
[04:52] <azeem> is Ubuntu going to have its own booth?
[04:52] <ogra> yep
[04:52] <Riddell> Kamion: install qt3-designer
[04:52] <Riddell> Kamion: create a new dialogue
[04:52] <Kamion> Riddell: oh, can't be done in code? ok
[04:53] <ogra> azeem, then you can feel the ubuntu love :)
[04:53] <azeem> huggityhug
[04:53] <ogra> hehe
[04:53] <Riddell> Kamion: sure you can create a class, inherit from QDialog and add your widgets manually
[04:53] <stewart> highvoltage not to carry on but #ubuntu topic doesnt include dapper support yet?
[04:53] <azeem> ogra: so far I will feel the "being-debian-booth-personell-pain" it seems.  Somebody subscribed me for that
[04:53] <bddebian> azeem: :-)
[04:54] <ogra> hah
[04:55] <janimo> ogra, how much does LTSP stuff take up on the install CD?
[04:55] <ogra> janimo, some kb
[04:56] <janimo> do you think it would make sens to add that to xubuntu install option ?
[04:56] <ogra> sure 
[04:56] <janimo> does that need special care in the CD build area?
[04:56] <ogra> you need the ltsp-client-builder udeb ion the installer 
[04:56] <janimo> oh, that's all?
[04:56] <ogra> and if you want an automatic install you need some preseed changes
[04:56] <ogra> (to call the command)
[04:57] <ogra> thats all 
[04:57] <janimo> ogra, if I take relevant bits from  the edubuntu seeds is that enough?
[04:57] <ogra> i think so ...
[04:57] <ogra> i never tried to waver it into another system :)
[04:57] <ogra> *wave
[04:57] <janimo> does it show up in the boot menu, no need for other intervention?
[04:57] <ogra> nope
[04:57] <highvoltage> janimo: i think it's great that you're doing that, btw :)
[04:58] <ogra> you'll need a special flavor in the boot menu ...
[04:58] <janimo> highvoltage: well I tought of it last night after talking to you
[04:58] <highvoltage> :)
[04:58] <janimo> since people are planning to use xubuntu+ltsp at least make it ieasier
[04:58] <highvoltage> great! and since it's mentioned how well it works with ltsp on http://xubuntu.org, it makes sense :)
[04:59] <ogra> janimo, d-i     preseed/late_command    string chroot /target /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-sshkeys
[04:59] <ogra> thats the preseed command you need
[04:59] <janimo> ogra: and is that done on the cd image building part?
[04:59] <janimo> ogra my knowledge of preseed is 0.
[04:59] <janimo> but I'll copy paste that line for the future :)
[04:59] <ogra> and ltsp-client-builder must be called at some point after base install in the menu
[04:59] <bddebian> Is there a list of things waiting to sync somewhere?
[05:00] <ogra> janimo, mount an iso and look into /pressed there :)
[05:00] <janimo> ok
[05:00] <ogra> bddebian, LP
[05:00] <janimo> but is that code actually in the debian-cd code ?
[05:00] <janimo> it's not seeds or other source packages right?
[05:00] <ogra> janimo, preseed ?
[05:00] <ogra> nope
[05:00] <janimo> preseed or whatever it takes adding 'install ltsp server' to the boot menu
[05:01] <ogra> its just telling the install what to do at which point ... 
[05:01] <janimo> I don;t know if edubuntu has that, never seen it :)
[05:01] <ogra> edubuntu installs the ltsp stuff by default 
[05:01] <bddebian> ogra: I know they are on LP but is there a way to just look at those?  Or am I asking a dumb question :-)
[05:01] <ogra> so i dont have an extra menu option for it
[05:01] <janimo> aha
[05:01] <ogra> we have a "workstation" option that supresses the ltsp and server bits 
[05:02] <janimo> I tought you have default desktop/ltsp server options at boot
[05:02] <ogra> what you want is exactly the opposite
[05:02] <ogra> having a default install without ltsp and an extra option with ltsp
[05:03] <Kamion> janimo: file a bug on /products/ubuntu-cdimage and I can set it up for you
[05:03] <ogra> the only thing thats tricky there is that you'll need some of Kamion's time to get that into the gfxboot menu
[05:03] <Kamion> bddebian: /people/ubuntu-archive/+subscribedbugs
[05:03] <janimo> Kamion, will do
[05:03] <Kamion> janimo: but please describe exactly what you want, I haven't really been following the above conversation
[05:04] <janimo> Kamion, I'll try, thanks
[05:04] <bddebian> Kamion: Thx
[05:08] <janimo> ogra, I am trying to make sense in the cdimage feature request. So is LTSP server the only reasonable LTSP option?
[05:09] <janimo> could there be an install LTSP client?
[05:09] <ogra> ltsp-client-builder is the important part you want
[05:09] <ogra> nope
[05:09] <Amaranth> stupid netsplits
[05:09] <janimo> I mean you can install as 'normal' workstation or ltsp server
[05:09] <ogra> an ltsp client netboots from the server and mounts a root directory from there via nfs ...
[05:10] <janimo> ogra, so no install _at all_ on the thin clients?
[05:10] <ogra> you dont need to do anything at all on the client side
[05:10] <ogra> exactly
[05:10] <janimo> they're all assume diskless?
[05:10] <ogra> just netboot them 
[05:10] <ogra> yep, currently they are 
[05:10] <janimo> ok
[05:10] <janimo> it makes it simpler that's sure
[05:10] <ogra> that will change in eft or eft+1
[05:10] <zakame> whoa netsplit
[05:10] <ogra> i want a thick client mode as well as a kiosk mode with local apps
[05:11] <janimo> eft+1 = Frantic Ferret
[05:11] <ogra> i.e. for an internet cafe its enough to have a firefox running fullscreen 
[05:11] <ogra> you dont need a real X sesssion there 
[05:12] <zakame> welcome back everyone
[05:12] <janimo> ogra, is that done now in LTSP ? or does ubuntu have the most featureful LTSP around?
[05:13] <ogra> janimo, ltsp.org's default setup doesnt differ much from ours, but they have local device support on theor client we dont have yet 
[05:13] <ogra> (my highest prio for ltsp in eft)
[05:13] <janimo> there's local sound now in ubuntu right?
[05:13] <ogra> yep
[05:14] <janimo> what other device is not? usb keys and such?
[05:14] <bddebian> Is there any way to get apt-get build-dep to continue on errors so I don't have to pull every damn dep by hand?
[05:14] <ogra> and a lot of memory saving, usplash, themed login manager and a lot of other small goodies
[05:14] <ogra> yep
[05:14] <ogra> cameras, usb keys, floppies
[05:14] <ogra> all the plug devices g-v-m handles 
[05:18] <bddebian> Riddell: ping?
[05:19] <Riddell> bddebian: hmm?
[05:20] <bddebian> Riddell: Bug #5107  is an old one, do you happen to know if it is still and issue?
[05:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5107 in tagcoll "libtagcoll-dev does not install libtagcoll.pc" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5107
[05:21] <Riddell>  it contains /usr/lib/pkgconfig/libtagcoll.pc
[05:22] <bddebian> Riddell: OK, so should I close it or reject it?
[05:25] <slomo__> Kamion: ping?
[05:26] <Riddell> bddebian: close please
[05:28] <joelbryan> I added some ideas to the SoC page, last 6 entries.
[05:29] <janimo> ogra I cannot get http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-dapper/ with latest bzr
[05:29] <janimo> hmm I wonder if it's some proxy playing trick s again. It says bzr: ERROR: An error has been detected. please run bzr reconcile
[05:29] <ogra> wrong bzr version ? 
[05:30] <janimo> well latest bzr in dapper
[05:30] <Keybuk> janimo: WFM
[05:30] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/seeds/edubuntu-dapper$ bzr pull
[05:30] <ogra> Using saved location: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-dapper/
[05:30] <ogra> Inventory ok.
[05:30] <ogra> All changes applied successfully.
[05:30] <ogra> 2 revision(s) pulled.
[05:30] <janimo> actually another box is pulling successfully iwth bzr 0,7
[05:30] <ogra> works fine here
[05:30] <Keybuk> bzr 0.8rc1 works fine
[05:30] <ogra> 0.8~200604071016-0ubuntu1
[05:30] <Kamion> slomo__: hi
[05:30] <bddebian> Riddell: OK, thx
[05:31] <janimo> ok, no idea what it is then. As the proxy is only told to cache .debs
[05:32] <slomo__> Kamion: currently tomboy is built without libgmime2.1-cil which would enable a evolution plugin for it... there are 2 bugreports from users wanting the plugin. is it fine with you to enable it? as tomboy is in main i thought this might need a FF exception
[05:32] <ogra> mvo, if i add "-o Acquire::gpgv::Options::=--ignore-time-conflict" to my ltsp-build-client script, do i need to add it to every apt-get line in there ? 
[05:32] <ogra> or does upgrade suffice 
[05:32] <mvo> ogra: it should be enough if you add it to the "apt-get update" call
[05:32] <ogra> err
[05:32] <ogra> update
[05:32] <ogra> mvo, ta
[05:33] <mvo> ogra: was it a incorrect time?
[05:33] <ogra> yep
[05:33] <ogra> the system was already set to June
[05:35] <Kamion> slomo__: tomboy's only in supported and libgmime2.1-cil is already in main, so I think it's probably OK; but try to get test feedback from those users
[05:36] <Kamion> ogra: has the apt.conf.d file that sets that option globally for the duration of the installer gone missing then? because if so, I'd like to fix that
[05:37] <ogra> Kamion, doe it set that as well in /target ? 
[05:37] <slomo__> Kamion: ok, thanks :) and i'll test it extensive locally too before doing anything with it
[05:37] <ogra> dont forget ltsp-build-client chroots before running
[05:37] <ogra> *does
[05:38] <simira> mvo: I am a bit amused that after running update-manager, I still got updates when running synaptic, and after that was requested to reboot...
[05:39] <herzi> mvo: ping
[05:39] <herzi> mvo: can you take a quick look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/36127
[05:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36127 in grub "ESC menu doesn't work" [Normal,Needs info]  
[05:40] <Kamion> ogra: apt isn't used outside /target, so yes
[05:41] <ogra> err, yes, silly me
[05:41] <ogra> i'll try to check back with the reporter (he's offline currently=
[05:41] <mvo> simira: did you got a "not all packages marked for upgrade" message from update-manager?
[05:41] <janimo> does being in any of the seeds not automatically imply supported?
[05:41] <janimo> in edubuntu seeds two packages are both in ship and supported
[05:41] <mvo> herzi: can you attach your menu.list please to the bugreport?
[05:42] <simira> mvo: yes, that is, a bunch of packages that appearantly were held back
[05:42] <janimo> ogra so I need ltsp-client-builder in the installer seed, and server-standalone and ltsp-client in the ship seed?
[05:43] <ogra> janimo, might be an oversight of me
[05:43] <wasabi> So I want a nice round ubuntu logo sticker.
[05:43] <janimo> ogra, ltsp-server is in supported only though
[05:43] <ogra> janimo, nope, you need Kamion to set up the installer seeds for you
[05:43] <janimo> what is that?
[05:43] <janimo> ogra I know (filing the bug)
[05:43] <janimo> just in the seeds area I mean
[05:44] <ogra> janimo, see /preseed in your iso
[05:44] <janimo> ok, I'll look at the next iso I dl
[05:45] <herzi> mvo: done (i don't think i ever changed that file)
[05:46] <mvo> herzi: thanks
[05:48] <janimo> ogra I'll need ldm too I guess?
[05:48] <ogra> yep
[05:49] <janimo> hmm, I see edubuntu server is only the ltsp stuff
[05:49] <janimo> so it does not have the minimal install the others have?
[05:49] <ogra> and schooltool
[05:49] <janimo> since xubuntu already has the server seed unchanged
[05:49] <ogra> -server is installed alongside with -desktop
[05:49] <janimo> is schooltool neede for generic LTSP, not just edubuntu?
[05:49] <ogra> nope
[05:50] <ogra> its standalone
[05:50] <janimo> so I don;t need it then
[05:50] <ogra> yep
[05:51] <janimo> what I mean there's no server as in php/mail/apache as in the other ubuntus
[05:51] <mdz> sfllaw: as I recall, the justification for eagle-usb was that it is required for lots of folks in France to use their ISPs
[05:52] <sfllaw> mdz: Makes sense.  It sounds like we want someone to get it ported to using udev.
[05:52] <mdz> sfllaw: it might be worth asking around the mailing lists if that's accurate and if anyone with experience with it can help out
[05:52] <ogra> janimo, edubuntu-server predates the ubuntu-server seed
[05:53] <janimo> ok, but there's no server seed lik ein ubuntu right?
[05:53] <ogra> no
[05:53] <janimo> so I know where I put the ltsp packages
[05:53] <sfllaw> mdz: So... upstream?  Or ubuntu-devel?
[05:53] <janimo> since a server install is the minimal install
[05:54] <janimo> I cannot make that ltsp too
[05:54] <janimo> hmm maybe a new seed is needed for that
[05:54] <Keybuk> sfllaw: I tried to do that myself (which is why I was looking at it) and just couldn't figure out what the hell it was trying to do
[05:54] <Kamion> janimo: you need ltsp-client-builder in the installer seed, yes
[05:54] <Kamion> janimo: and also yes to ship changes
[05:54] <janimo> Kamion, yes added that already, just not mirrored
[05:54] <mdz> sfllaw: upstream for the particular bug, -devel for deciding whether it's supportable on an ongoing basis
[05:54] <Kamion> whatever you need ltsp-client-builder to install needs to be on the CD => in ship
[05:55] <nomed> Mithrandir: would it be an idea to source a config file within casper ? where it's possible to set vars as USERNAME HOST  ?
[05:55] <Keybuk> nomed: can't those be seeded using debconf?
[05:55] <janimo> Kamion: so it does not need to be in server or some other seed too?In that case it's ok, I'll commit now
[05:55] <Kamion> janimo: no
[05:56] <Kamion> janimo: edubuntu-server is sort of a distraction here I think
[05:56] <Kamion> janimo: hmm, well, maybe not
[05:56] <nomed> maybe this could help even to skip scripts not needed by other distro as xubuntu ...
[05:56] <Kamion> janimo: if you need to create something analogous to edubuntu-server, maybe you will need an ltsp-server seed
[05:56] <ogra> edubuntu-server is supposed to be bigger than ltsp
[05:56] <nomed> Keybuk: ?
[05:56] <janimo> Kamion, well that's what I was thinking, since server is taken alreday for minimal.
[05:56] <jsgotangco> ogra: it would be interesting to see -bigiron on edubuntu though :)
[05:56] <janimo> so an option in the menu corresponds to a seed ?
[05:57] <janimo> new option
[05:57] <Kamion> janimo: er ... server means several things but none of them are equivalent to the minimal seed
[05:57] <Kamion> janimo: no, it corresponds to a preseed file typically
[05:57] <joelbryan> added the last 8 entries in SoC wiki page.
[05:57] <ogra> jsgotangco, if i can squeeze it into the CD (which exploded the last days without me doing anything again)
[05:57] <Kamion> janimo: server means (a) "install a server" on Ubuntu CDs => minimal + standard, (b) ubuntu-server CD => minimal + standard + server, (c) edubuntu-server => minimal + standard + (edubuntu) server
[05:58] <nomed> Keybuk: if  you were asking to me .. it seems vars as USERNAME are hardcoded at the moment
[05:58] <Kamion> all three of these are different :-(
[05:58] <highvoltage> janimo: they explain the server seeds a bit at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallCDCustomizationHowTo
[05:58] <janimo> highvoltage: thanks I'll look
[05:58] <ogra> Kamion, i'm fine with renaming to classroom-server or something
[05:58] <janimo> ah so server seed is only for server CD.Ok then
[05:58] <Kamion> highvoltage: that sort of helps for some of it but it's far from complete
[05:58] <Keybuk> nomed: it's possible; the old casper only exists now in spirit
[05:58] <Kamion> ogra: after beta2, then? we need to coordinate a bit
[05:59] <Kamion> janimo: right, in the case of Ubuntu
[05:59] <ogra> Kamion, if you blow the horn :)
[05:59] <Kamion> janimo: Edubuntu has a different meaning for it for historical reasons
[06:00] <janimo> Kamion: so to actually have a new option in addition to workstation and minimal I need a new seed file? ltsp-server or such
[06:00] <Kamion> ogra: a name that Xubuntu could also use would be nice, though
[06:00] <Kamion> would simplify the chaos in cdimage
[06:00] <Kamion> argh, I completely do not understand the behaviour of Qt's layout managers
[06:00] <Kamion> janimo: if it's just a simple extra couple of packages and doesn't need an extra metapackage, then actually you don't need to create a new seed, you just need to tell me the package names
[06:01] <ogra> Kamion, hmm, but edubuntu-server will be the classroom server seed in the future
[06:01] <ogra> not sure if thats even remotely usable for xubuntu or any other buntu
[06:01] <Kamion> ogra: for edubuntu, sure, but if xubuntu has a server seed with a similar-ish purpose to edubuntu's then I'd like them to have the same name, and I'm not sure that classroom-server is a good name for xubuntu
[06:01] <ogra> true
[06:02] <Kamion> but if the purposes are radically dissimilar (i.e. they'd want different descriptions on the boot menu), then they could have different names, I guess
[06:02] <janimo> Kamion: I'll have to understand first what goes where in edubuntu as some packages are in two seeds. what I know is that ltsp-server-standalone, ltsp-client and ldm need to be there .right ogra?
[06:02] <ogra> i dont want anything in the boot menu ... since its my default install
[06:02] <janimo> so if it's only these 3 and no need for a new seed fine by me
[06:03] <ogra> janimo, ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client and ldm, yes
[06:03] <ogra> hmm
[06:03] <ogra> and openssh-server iirc
[06:04] <ogra> its not a dependency, just a recommends
[06:05] <Kamion> ogra: the default install is a boot menu entry
[06:05] <Kamion> janimo: if it's just those and you don't want a metapackage, then the simplest course of action is for you to add them to the ship seed, and add a comment to the bug report you filed earlier asking me to create a boot menu entry with a given name that installs those packages in addition to the defaults
[06:06] <janimo> Kamion, ok will do
[06:06] <ogra> Kamion, yes, but he needs an extra option, i dont
[06:06] <janimo> ogra, so you suggest I add openssh-server as well?
[06:06] <ogra> you'll need it
[06:06] <ogra> its essential
[06:07] <Kamion> ogra: doesn't matter from the point of view of cdimage
[06:07] <ogra> right
[06:07] <janimo> ogra, openssh-server too?
[06:08] <janimo> ogra, so if ldm, ltsp- server and client are installed the box automatically boots as a thin client server in addition of running a desktop itself?
[06:09] <ogra> thats what i wrote above
[06:09] <Kamion> Riddell: any idea why the dialog I create might have a huge pile of blank space around the VBox with all the actual widgets in? i.e. it doesn't seem to pack itself to anything like the right size
[06:09] <janimo> ok
[06:09] <ogra> janimo, you'll still need to adjust the dhcpo config
[06:09] <ogra> *dhcp
[06:09] <janimo> is that manual?
[06:09] <ogra> eft will do that automatically+
[06:09] <janimo> ok
[06:09] <ogra> i have a patch ready but its to intrusive for dapper at this point
[06:10] <janimo> and does the edubuntu server actually start a local X too, or can it be headless?
[06:11] <ogra> you dont need local X 
[06:11] <ogra> but you need -desktop installed
[06:11] <janimo> right, so need X but not a local display
[06:12] <ogra> you dont need local X 
[06:12] <ogra> but you need -desktop installed
[06:12] <ogra> s/local//
[06:13] <ogra> if you start a diskless client, it grabs the ip data and the tftp path from the running dhcp server on your server
[06:13] <ogra> it then gets the kernel via tftp and boots
[06:13] <ogra> during boot initramfs mounts / via nfs from your server
[06:14] <ogra> then it autodetects all values for the clients HW (similar to the live CD)
[06:14] <ogra> if X on the client is up, it starts ldm
[06:14] <janimo> ogra you said just recommend openssh
[06:14] <janimo> otherwise it's a default open port right?
[06:14] <ogra> now if you log in ....
[06:15] <ogra> ldm starts: ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/XSession
[06:15] <ogra> and the users session starts on the server, but displayed on the client
[06:15] <ogra> s/but/but is/
[06:16] <ogra> thast basically how ltsp works
[06:16] <janimo> right, thanks
[06:16] <ogra> (ubuntu ltsp=
[06:16] <ogra> )
[06:16] <janimo> I still need to check it out to see for myself :)
[06:16] <ogra> yep
[06:17] <ogra> here are the post install notes: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
[06:17] <janimo> thanks
[06:17] <ogra> oh, and very important, you cant use ltsp easily if y dhcp server is running in your net already and you need a static interface to server the client network
[06:17] <ogra> s/y/a/
[06:20] <carlos> pitti: I think this channel is better
[06:23] <pitti> carlos: hey, yes, I had to leave for a while
[06:23] <pitti> carlos: wow, today's import is a considerable jump :)
[06:24] <carlos> pitti: I think there is something wrong with the report you sent to launchpad 
[06:24] <carlos> pitti: yeah, but the report you sent doen't reflect it
[06:24] <pitti> carlos: hm, no, I looked wrong, it's actually not that much
[06:24] <carlos> pitti: It was already there since Saturday, but we were breaking with a database lock so you were fetching the same tarball until today
[06:25] <carlos> pitti: yes, there is a huge improvement...
[06:25] <jpatrick> carlos: can you approve me for ubuntu-l10n-es ?
[06:25] <carlos> jpatrick: I'm an admin but koke is the one reviewing the requests, please, talk with him...
[06:25] <carlos> pitti: http://mawson.ubuntu.com/~carlos/rosetta-dapper-2006-04-21.log vs http://mawson.ubuntu.com/~carlos/rosetta-dapper-2006-04-25.log
[06:26] <jpatrick> carlos: ok
[06:26] <carlos> pitti: we have now 626 .pot files but the statistics you have are the same we had yesterday
[06:26] <carlos> jpatrick: thanks
[06:26] <ogra> carlos, pitti, oh, so it was you who made my edubuntu isos explode 
[06:26] <carlos> ogra: ?
[06:27] <ogra> its oversized since 21st
[06:27] <carlos> ogra: we don't have all this on a new language pack (yet)
[06:27] <pitti> ogra: no, I didn't build langpacks recently
[06:27] <ogra> and since i didnt change anything i was searching for the packages that immensely raised in size
[06:27] <koke> jpatrick: read https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-es/
[06:27] <ogra> pitti, bah, i was hoping i could blame you 
[06:27] <carlos> ogra: not yet, sorry :-P
[06:28] <ogra> carlos, i'll wait for it then and whine afterwards :P
[06:28] <carlos> :-)
[06:29] <Kamion> Riddell: ok, you have a crash handler now, if I didn't screw up too badly; works for me anyway
[06:31] <pitti> carlos: hm, strange
[06:31] <carlos> pitti: we got exactly the same statistics from rosetta like yesterday so seems like you got the same tarball
[06:32] <carlos> instead of the new one
[06:32] <carlos> pitti: at what time are you executing your script?
[06:32] <_ion> Ubuntu 6.06 (The Diaper Drake Release)
[06:32] <pitti> 30 15 * * * /home/pitti/bin/langpack-report.sh
[06:32] <_ion> Thank you, thank you. I will be here all week.
[06:32] <pitti> carlos: I fetch the tarball at 1430 rookery time
[06:33] <pitti> carlos: i. e. at 1330 UTC
[06:33] <carlos> that was the problem
[06:33] <carlos> pitti: the new export took more time
[06:33] <carlos> pitti: and it finished after you fetch the tarball
[06:33] <carlos> so you got the old one
[06:33] <pitti> carlos: ok, so I just grabbed an old tarball
[06:34] <carlos> right
[06:34] <pitti> carlos: ok, I manually start a new round
[06:34] <carlos> could you move it 30 minutes later? we finished 7 minutes later than you started
[06:34] <carlos> pitti: thanks
[06:34] <pitti> carlos: sure
[06:35] <pitti> carlos: done
[06:36] <carlos> ok
[06:46] <Kinnison> pitti: with all this, are you likely to want another langpack run any time soon?
[06:47] <pitti> Kinnison: yes, probably tomorrow
[06:47] <Kinnison> pitti: okay, just let me know when/where :-)
[06:49] <pitti> Kinnison: thanks, will do
[06:55] <pitti> hi jvw
[06:57] <pitti> carlos: ok, I got the new tarball, 170 MB now, wow :) I generate a new report
[06:57] <jvw> hi pitti :) -- I guess I should reconnect more often :-P
[06:57] <carlos> pitti: :-D
[06:57] <carlos> pitti: how big is your buildd tarball?
[06:58] <pitti> mine is bigger, of course :-P
[06:58] <carlos> yeah, I know
[06:58] <ogra> pitti, !
[06:58] <pitti> carlos: 260 MB
[06:58] <ogra> no need to show off here :)
[06:58] <pitti> 270 even
[06:58] <carlos> ogra: ;-)
[06:58] <carlos> pitti: I guess it includes .pot files, right?
[06:59] <pitti> carlos: no, it doesn't
[06:59] <pitti> carlos: I never bothered to add that functionality
[06:59] <carlos> pitti: also, it includes .po files that will not end in the language pack
[06:59] <pitti> carlos: yes, some
[06:59] <carlos> pitti: at least you have some documentation files
[06:59] <pitti> carlos: hm, actually not
[06:59] <pitti> carlos: the files that land in this tarball will all be shipped by the langpacks
[06:59] <carlos> pitti: your statistics have manpages domains...
[07:00] <pitti> carlos: i. e. the real bug is that I don't sort them out well enough
[07:00] <carlos> pitti: and thus you should remove them ;-)
[07:00] <pitti> carlos: yes, indeed
[07:00] <carlos> ok
[07:00] <pitti> carlos: once rosetta has full dapper imported, I'll happily drop the merging process and just use your's
[07:00] <pitti> carlos: but so far I just had to merge them
[07:01] <carlos> pitti: that would be really soon, I just want to know how far are we from that point and your statistics script is helpful for that
[07:01] <carlos> pitti: you have 930 translation domains, we have now 630
[07:02] <pitti> carlos: do you happen to have a list (or at least a subset) of domains that are definitively bogus?
[07:02] <carlos> and I'm sure that some of the missing ones are already on Rosetta but not set as being part of language packs
[07:02] <pitti> carlos: then I could clean up my import script so that we can converge
[07:02] <carlos> pitti: your script will provide that list
[07:03] <carlos> when I finish with rosetta cleanup the difference will be translation domains that you are missing (I found a couple of them already)
[07:03] <carlos> pitti: and the ones that you note as missing in Rosetta will be the ones that are documentation or anything else that should not be in a language pack
[07:04] <carlos> anyway, I could provide you with such list, yes
[07:04] <carlos> its an SQL query
[07:05] <carlos> usually the ones you are missing are .pot files that don't have any translation but that rosetta got some translations
[07:06] <carlos> will be back later today
[07:08] <nomed> janimo: ping
[07:08] <janimo> nomed: hi
[07:08] <nomed> hi janimo
[07:08] <nomed> it seems today livecd hasn't the install icon on the desktop
[07:08] <nomed> and as we know the menu entry doesn't work
[07:08] <janimo> hmm.
[07:08] <janimo> do desktop icons work at all?
[07:09] <janimo> or is the setting off
[07:11] <nomed> janimo: where is the install desktop file ?
[07:11] <nomed> i'm not logged in the live
[07:11] <janimo> should be in /home/ubuntu/Desktop
[07:11] <janimo> is ubuntu is the user
[07:12] <nomed> ok .. so it's empty 
[07:12] <janimo> did autologin work?
[07:12] <nomed> yes
[07:12] <janimo> and is the new artwork there?
[07:12] <nomed> and ppl are reporting it as a bug now :D
[07:13] <nomed> janimo: i don't know yet .. anyway it seems yes
[07:13] <janimo> why don;t they like it?I mean the wallpaper not the usplash
[07:13] <janimo> oh, autologin as bug? :)
[07:14] <nomed> janimo: well users now expect gdm :)
[07:14] <nomed> anyway it works fine :)
[07:14] <janimo> we spoiled them with the beta
[07:14] <janimo> does ubiquity run from cmd?
[07:15] <janimo> I don't have the CD downloaded.
[07:15] <nomed> yes
[07:15] <janimo> is show icons the default desktop view?
[07:15] <nomed> i should test the last one
[07:15] <janimo> last one is todays
[07:16] <nomed> janimo: yes but as i told i'm not the one logged in xubuntu live :)
[07:16] <nomed> i can just tell you $HOME/Desktop is empty
[07:16] <janimo> I know, but next time you are
[07:16] <nomed> ahh ok
[07:16] <janimo> or run it in qemu :)
[07:17] <nomed> too slow .. 
[07:17] <janimo> it boots faster here than on an actual 128M machine
[07:17] <janimo> no more than 2 minutes to desktop
[07:17] <nomed> i tried sometime but i realized i' not so patient :)
[07:22] <mvo_> herzi: I think I know what the problem with the grub thing is, I'll upload a fix today (I hope), if not today, please keep kicking me until I upload it :)
[07:24] <herzi> mvo_: i will :)
[07:31] <bddebian> What is xlibmesa-gl-dev these days???
[07:31] <LaserJock> bddebian: something else :-)
[07:32] <LaserJock> bddebian: I usually check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Transitions/GLU
[07:32] <LaserJock> bddebian: I think that is current
[07:32] <bddebian> It wasn't last time I looked, but I'll try, thanks
[07:33] <pygi> who do I complain to about "Smart"? =P
[07:34] <highvoltage> smart isn't even in ubuntu yet, right?
[07:34] <highvoltage> (i mean, packaged)
[07:34] <_ion> It is.
[07:34] <pygi> highvoltage: right, but I still complain
[07:35] <_ion> I coincidentally tried it yesterday.
[07:35] <_ion> I installed and upgraded some packages, it seemed to work. :-)
[07:36] <highvoltage> pygi: well, sabdfl seems to like it, according to the edge announcement, so complain to him :)
[07:36] <bddebian> pygi: I was trying smart
[07:38] <ogra> pygi, wait with complaining until its the default installer ...
[07:38] <pygi> highvoltage: yes, I know...
[07:38] <ogra> s/installer/package manager/
[07:38] <pygi> ogra: nah, I am running a global campaign against it =P
[07:38] <ogra> to late
[07:38] <ogra> it will be the preferred tool at some point for us
[07:38] <_ion> Why not just modify apt with those features smart has?
[07:39] <nomed> reading its README file it seems really cool
[07:39] <_ion> s/with/to have/
[07:39] <pygi> yes, I do understand that ogra, but that doesn't mean I have to like it, right? :P
[07:39] <ogra> dunno if thats already edgy or edgy+1
[07:39] <HiddenWolf> ogra: why will we ditch apt?
[07:39] <highvoltage> smart will have huge resistance, whether it's good or not.
[07:39] <pygi> nomed: o please do say me how will a regular user install TGZ package which doesn't handle deps? or rpm which is unproven & unstable, and rpm from one rpm distro to other don't work
[07:40] <ogra> highvoltage, yep
[07:40] <nomed> _ion: i guess the algorithm itself is what make smart so smart :)
[07:40] <_ion> nomed: That's what i mean  why not make apt use that very algorithm? :-)
[07:40] <nomed> the way it solves deps :)
[07:40] <ogra> pygi, if these features work, wouldnt you say smart is cooler athn anything else  
[07:40] <ogra> *than
[07:41] <HiddenWolf> _ion: according to the smart page canonical is paying for it's development, so I guess the choice has been made
[07:41] <nomed> umm .. smart is in python and mainted in python ...
[07:41] <pygi> HiddenWolf: yea, nothing can be changed...
[07:41] <pygi> ogra: still no... apt is proven technology, and it's shortcomings can and will be fixed
[07:41] <HiddenWolf> I'm just wondering, what is it that apt can't do?
[07:41] <pygi> also, smart HAS ISSUES, not only in code and features, but at it's "show"
[07:41] <pygi> it's more developer's centric, then users-centric
[07:42] <pygi> HiddenWolf: it has it's shortcomings, but it will be resolved rather soon...
[07:42] <nomed> pygi: i guess an app as gnome-app-install is  users-centric too :)
[07:42] <nomed> and maybe more
[07:42] <highvoltage> HiddenWolf: well, the nice thing about smart is, that it doesn't matter if you install rpm's or debs, then again, APT can work with RPM's and Deb's too, strictly speaking. it's just not implemented well yet :/
[07:43] <HiddenWolf> pygi: not my point. I just don't see why apt would need replacement, what can smart do that apt can't?
[07:43] <pygi> highvoltage: hm, rpm from mandrake won't work on fedora for example, and will break system
[07:43] <HiddenWolf> highvoltage: considering almost everything has a .deb that isn't a huge advantage
[07:43] <pygi> also, tgz doesn't have deps 
[07:43] <pygi> and now imagine installing that on deb system
[07:44] <highvoltage> HiddenWolf: i agree, dpkg is way advanced compared to rpm.
[07:44] <highvoltage> pygi: the same is true for .deb's too, a .deb from mepis or knoppix or debian won't necassarily work on ubuntu ;)
[07:44] <pygi> whatever, I know my opinion doesn't count even a bit, but I had to say
[07:44] <HiddenWolf> I'm just interested if someone can tell me "this is what smart will fix"
[07:45] <pygi> highvoltage: wanna bet that rpm is way worser?
[07:45] <nomed> HiddenWolf: it's well explained within a README file
[07:45] <_ion> hiddenwolf: Well, there's a bunch of comparisons in the README.
[07:45] <mjg59> Can we not have this discussion here, please?
[07:45] <mjg59> It's very off-topic
[07:45] <highvoltage> pygi: yeah
[07:50] <highvoltage> perhaps also a bit off-topic, i put the "Xubuntu is a registered trademark of canonical message" at the bottom of http://www.xubuntu.org
[07:50] <highvoltage> is that true? that xubuntu is a registered trademark? with whom can i follow up on that?
[08:01] <Keybuk> highvoltage: silbs.
[08:03] <highvoltage> Keybuk: that's jane.silber@canonical.com?
[08:03] <ogra> highvoltage, yes
[08:04] <highvoltage> thanks
[08:07] <Keybuk> the answer to any admin question is to ask one of the janes or one of the claires usually
[08:21] <mdke> elmo, Znarl, ping?
[08:29] <Diziet> I think I've done too many experiments on this testbed and it's time to reinstall it.  It's gone really very strange.
[08:39] <pitti> carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/rosetta-buildd-diff-report.txt
[08:39] <pitti> carlos: *much* better :)
[08:40] <bddebian> Is the sync issue fixed yet?
[08:40] <sfllaw> The default sound-mixing thingy is still esd for Dapper, right?
[08:40] <crimsun> pitti: could I pick your brain for two minutes (if you have time) please?
[08:40] <crimsun> sfllaw: alsa native
[08:41] <sfllaw> crimsun: Thanks.
[08:42] <pitti> crimsun: sure
[08:42] <LaserJock> bddebian: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[08:43] <crimsun> pitti: RE: gnome-control-center: sometimes setting defaults.{pcm,ctl}.cards results in the errors we see with alsa-lib spitting out conf hook errors. It's worked around by using the old Breezy-style card index. Could we wrap a transparent (to the user) test into gnome-control-center so this check to see if setting the default card worked?
[08:43] <pitti> crimsun: oh, so sometimes the !defaults.pcm.card foo fails?
[08:43] <Kamion> bddebian: no
[08:44] <Kamion> bddebian: cprov is still working on it
[08:44] <bddebian> Fark
[08:44] <pitti> crimsun: so, we could first try by name, then opening the default device and check for errors?
[08:44] <crimsun> pitti: it's not optimal by far (since the index can change under us after reboot), but it's better than it failing completely
[08:44] <pitti> indeed
[08:44] <Kamion> bddebian: shouldn't be a big deal; I expect it to be fixed soon
[08:44] <crimsun> pitti: yeah, sometimes setting defaults.{pcm,ctl}.cards fails for the string
[08:45] <pitti> crimsun: I was really busy with printing stuff recently, but I seriously strive for putting my attention to other packages RSN
[08:45] <pitti> crimsun: ok, that sounds doable, as long as snd_pcm_open really fails then
[08:45] <crimsun> pitti: awesome, thanks much.
[08:46] <pitti> crimsun: added to my todo list; thank you for pointing it out!
[08:46] <crimsun> great, this will close several bugs in Malone :)
[08:47] <pitti> crimsun: are they all assigned to alsa-lib? or control-center?
[08:48] <pitti> crimsun: erm, alsa-utils of course
[08:48] <crimsun> pitti: they're varied; which would you prefer?
[08:48] <pitti> crimsun: well, control-center would fit since it has to be fixed there
[08:48] <crimsun> right, that's what I was thinking
[08:48] <crimsun> I'll triage the ones I find to g-c-c, then
[08:49] <pitti> anyway, as long as ubuntu-audio is subscribed, I'll find them
[08:49] <crimsun> ok
[08:55] <bddebian> Shit, libvarconf is an depends for cyphesis-cpp
[09:07] <Mithrandir> nomed: I've considered it
[09:10] <bddebian> Ack, source for eris is 1.3.10 but binaries are 1.3.9x
[09:11] <bddebian> Oh, no I'm wrong
[09:39] <bddebian> Is there still a germinate list posted anywhere?
[09:40] <mdke> bddebian, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/ ?
[09:41] <Fjodor> Does anyone know where X looks up strings with XLookupString? It doesn't seem to be able to look up Danish chars here
[09:42] <Fjodor> And seems too technical for #ubuntu+1, so sorry for asking here
[09:45] <janimo> Fjodor: tried the manpage? it does not say where it looks though
[09:45] <mdz> Kamion: does apt-setup still do its disabling of sources it can't contact?  that shouldn't be necessary anymore now that apt and friends behave sensibly about it
[09:45] <mdz> in fact it's undesirable now
[09:45] <janimo> in the X keymap tables
[09:45] <wasabi> There are sparc buildds?
[09:45] <wasabi> Nice.
[09:46] <Fjodor> janimo: Looking at it. 
[09:46] <mdz> wasabi: where did you think all the sparc .debs were coming from? ;-)
[09:46] <wasabi> Never noticed em.
[09:47] <wasabi> Was just browsing LP and saw all these sparc machines.
[09:47] <mvo_> mdz: iirc this is no longer the case
[09:47] <wasabi> When we getting some ARM's? hahah
[09:47] <mvo_> mdz: (apt-setu disables sources it can't connect)
[09:47] <ogra> wasabi, with buntu
[09:48] <wasabi> There people working on that?
[09:48] <Fjodor> Well, my girlfriend just called me, so I'll look later. But how would I select a keysym table with Danish chars?
[09:48] <ogra> no idea, but its on the list since hoary, so eventually someone will jump on it i guess
[09:50] <janimo> Fjodor: set it in xorg.conf or with the gnome keyboard applet
[09:50] <ogra> Kamion, so do all your ignore time conflict changes make my change to ltsp-build-client unnecessary ? 
[09:51] <janimo> Fjodor: or read xkb documentation
[09:57] <dholbach> wasabi__, wasabi_, wasabi: it's techboard meeting
[09:57] <wasabi> woh. hi. ;)
[09:58] <bddebian> mdke: SThx
[09:58] <bddebian> -S
[09:58] <bddebian> Hmm, I don't see liberis on there anywhere
[10:07] <AnsiC> hello
[10:07] <bddebian> Hello AnsiC
[10:48] <janimo> Kamion: does everything that's on the liveCD get onto the installed one? Bug #40657 adds gnome session to gdm/xubuntu
[10:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40657 in xubuntu-meta "Gnome GDM option installed, but gnome crashes" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40657
[10:49] <pygi> pitti: around?
[10:54] <pitti> hi pygi 
[10:54] <pygi> hi pitti 
[10:55] <pygi> since when is wpasupplicant responsible for ESSID? :-/
[10:55] <Keybuk> in n-m, since 0.6
[10:55] <Keybuk> thus pitti's "BREAK NM MUAHAHAHA" patch
[10:56] <pitti> pygi: that's a very good question, I was quite stunned to learn that, too
[10:56] <pitti> pygi: so this patch "don't use wpasupplicant for unencrypted networks" probably has to go, right?
[10:56] <Mithrandir> is that why my n-m enabled interface changes essids on a whim?
[10:56] <pitti> pygi: essid setting/scanning works quite fine for me, but seems to break for others, so I just give up
[10:56] <pygi> pitti: yes, but that way we break PPC I believe
[10:57] <pitti> pygi: well, you can always uninstall wpasupplicant
[10:57] <Mithrandir> pitti: it works for me, but it ends up reassociating without telling nm-applet.
[10:57] <pitti> that will purge ubuntu-minimal, but well, tough luck
[10:57] <Mithrandir> wpasupplicant is in ubuntu-minimal.
[10:57] <pygi> pitti: what about calling for broader testing of that?
[10:57] <pygi> most of people don't complain
[10:58] <pitti> Mithrandir: indeed, that's why I wrote that patch in the first place, and by my understanding of the 0.5 code it should have worked quite well
[10:58] <janimo> Mithrandir: does casper do the copying of ubiquity install in ~/Desktop?
[10:58] <pitti> Mithrandir: I wasn't aware that wpasupplicant now even fiddles with essid, sorry
[10:58] <janimo> it's not there in the xubuntu live of today and am trying to figure out why
[10:58] <pitti> pygi: testing of what? reverting the patch?
[10:58] <Mithrandir> janimo: ubuiquity-casper if so.
[10:59] <pygi> pitti: well, test it at current status...altought we have reports, it's minority
[11:00] <pitti> pygi: if the patch breaks stuff, we should revert it, sure
[11:00] <pitti> pygi: I guess there are fewer ppc users than WEP/WPA users
[11:00] <pygi> pitti: ah, it works for me perfectly tho :-/
[11:00] <pitti> (on that matter, I have never used a WPA or WEP network so far, but I was told)
[11:00] <pygi> so for you as well
[11:02] <pygi> pitti: ugh :-/
[11:03] <Seveas> pitti, I added the plugdev recipe to blousey (buginfo tool) and it's now ready to roll 
[11:03] <pygi> Seveas: does it work for u?
[11:04] <Seveas> 
[11:04] <pygi> 
[11:04] <Seveas> quick paste, looking for opinions:
 the debug-information-report-tool is ready to roll, bzr archive on http://kaarsemaker.net/files/Software/blousey - should I upload a package to REVU?
 sure, unless it would fit better into an existing package
 It's a one-python-script-plus-one-manpage package, any suggestions where it would fit?
 haven't thought about it, try -devel
[11:06] <pygi> Seveas: rather new package I suppose
[11:08] <Kamion> mdz: I thought it didn't due to the apt changes, but apparently that's not quite true - I'll investigate
[11:09] <Kamion> ogra: no idea, I was bringing them in for other reasons, although I guess it's possible (shouldn't make a difference for CD installs though)
[11:09] <ogra> Kamion, ok, i'll kepp my patch for now and try tomorrows iso first :)
[11:09] <ogra> *keep
[11:12] <bddebian> Who is Bruce Cowan?
[11:14] <mdke> bddebian, searching on launchpad gives https://launchpad.net/people/bruce-cowan
[11:15] <bddebian> Yeah, so why is he trying to do syncs?
[11:15] <mdke> you'll have to ask him, I suspect
[11:17] <nomed> Mithrandir: in last xubuntu live espresso is the installer and casper has already ubiquity-hooks ..
[11:17] <nomed> That's why the espresso desktop file can't be in $HOME/Desktop ...
[11:19] <wiggy> elmo around?
[11:19] <wiggy> haven't been able to reach him all day
[11:26] <ficusplanet> Will any 2.14.2/2.14.3 releases of GNOME software make it into dapper?  There is a bug in gnome-power-manager that the maintainer tells me can be fixed with a small patch to a HAL script and the soon-to-be-released 2.14.3 version of gpm.
[11:26] <bddebian> OK, I realize my name is Mud in here but I did want to say that despite having ~10,000 bugs filed, Dapper looks damn nice!!
[11:27] <Seveas> Barry "Mud" DeFreese 
[11:27] <sfllaw> I'm still dist-upgrading.
[11:27] <ogra> bddebian, you didnt bring it below 10000 today ? 
[11:27] <bddebian> ogra: I'm trying man, I'm trying
[11:27] <ogra> bddebian, go go go !
[11:27] <bddebian> And according to LP, I'm not even an Ubuntu Member and have no @ubuntu.com e-mail ;-P
[11:27] <Seveas> heh, most I did on malone today was rejecting bugs
[11:28] <Seveas> lol
[11:28] <pitti> at that rate we'll hardly drop below 10.000...
[11:28] <pygi> I can look into some of n-m, apt, synaptic bugs if it needs
[11:28] <ogra> pitti, it was only ~100 above 10000 today
[11:32] <bddebian> Heya seb128
[11:32] <ogra> pitti, also seb128 is on vacation ... that raises the rate a lot
[11:33] <pitti> ogra: but now we have sfllaw, so all will be good soon!
[11:33] <ogra> yeah
[11:33] <pitti> ogra: oh, btw, does the AE work for you with latest kernel?
[11:33] <sfllaw> That doesn't fix your fix rate.
[11:33] <seb128> what rate?
[11:33] <sfllaw> Exactly.
[11:34] <ogra> pitti, still hadnt time to upgrade (and i wonder why update-manager is so silent)
[11:34] <sfllaw> I can only reject so many bugs.
[11:34] <sfllaw> And I have to find excuses!
[11:34] <seb128> hi sfllaw
[11:34] <ogra> seb128, the rate of newly filed bugs vs closed bugs 
[11:34] <ogra> we're lost without you :)
[11:35] <seb128> lol
[11:35] <seb128> I try catching up on my count this week too
[11:35] <sfllaw> pitti: I used to be a sysadmin.
[11:35] <sfllaw> Also, I have trouble killing our users.
[11:35] <pitti> solar radiation!
[11:35] <dholbach> sfllaw: may I introduce you to seb128 - it's our magic weapon against bugs :-)
[11:35] <sfllaw> They are all so far away.
[11:35] <dholbach> seb128: may I introduce to the bug master :-)
[11:35] <seb128> if I don't do anything for a week I'll be 1000 unread mail behind or something
[11:36] <seb128> it took me weeks after UI sprint
[11:36] <seb128> I'll not do it again
[11:36] <ogra> yeah, seb128 is the bug smartbomb
[11:36] <bddebian> ogra: See, I'm the first to say hello to seb128 and I don't even get a Hi :-)
[11:36] <seb128> Hi bddebian
[11:36] <Seveas> seb128, malone sends me upwards of 5000 mails per week :/
[11:36] <sivang> pitti: BofH ?
[11:37] <pitti> sivang: don't tell me you don't know...
[11:37] <sivang> pitti: hmm, seems I dont :)
[11:37] <sivang> pitti: care to enlighten me?
[11:37] <pitti> sivang: http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard.html
[11:37] <Seveas> 
[11:37] <seb128> Seveas: I do reply to every single one of my bugs that don't get a proper reply by somebody else or don't mark them as read
[11:38] <pitti> sivang: very funny and enlightening stories about how a sysadmin should not be :)
[11:38] <sivang> ah!
[11:38] <sivang> pitti: I didn't recognize the acroym
[11:38] <sivang> acronym, even :)
[11:38] <seb128> Seveas: I doubt you make sure than those 5000 mails get a proper reply ;)
[11:38] <seb128> or you are incredibly good
[11:38] <Seveas> seb128, I try to give all of them some attention
[11:38] <seb128> because I don't copy with my 1000 spending 10 hours a day
[11:38] <seb128> s/copy/cope
[11:39] <Seveas> not all mails are new bugs fortunately ;)
[11:41] <sivang> seb128: any idea what would be good to do with malone #40802 ?
[11:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40802 in gnome-system-tools "in users-admin user privileges there are 3 modem entries" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40802
[11:42] <Mithrandir> grr, convert doesn't write 1-bit pngs correctly.
[11:42] <seb128> sivang: no, and there is a collection of other new g-s-t bugs too if you want
[11:42] <ogra> what do you need 1bit pngs for ? 
[11:42] <sivang> seb128: I've startd following the, checking whenever I can
[11:42] <sivang> seb128: will drop in during the following days
[11:42] <seb128> bug 40935
[11:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40935 in gnome-system-tools "Grammar fixes in "User Privileges" tab of User Properties" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40935
[11:43] <seb128> bug #40803
[11:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40803 in gnome-system-tools "can't enable/disable audio privilege in users-admin" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40803
[11:43] <Mithrandir> ogra: use less space than 8 bit when doing a4 scans in 300dpi
[11:43] <ogra> ah
[11:44] <sivang> seb128: thanks
[11:56] <slomo__> Kamion: please demote wavpack to universe... it's not needed in main anymore, only rdepend is gst-plugins0.8 which is in universe now
[11:57] <mdz> slomo__: it's already pending, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/anastacia.txt
[11:57] <mdz> slomo__: anastacia notices when a package which was pulled into main by a dependency is no longer needed there
[11:58] <slomo__> mdz: oh ok, thanks :)
[11:59] <dholbach> night guys
[12:00] <pygi> night dholbach
[12:00] <sivang> night dholbach 
[12:00] <dholbach> night pygi, sivang
[12:01] <jmg> why are all scripts named after women like that?
[12:01] <sivang> slomo__: I will have an update for upbackup soon enough , until when are you going to be here?