[12:02] <pitti> jmg: old Debian tradition, the 'dak' suite for archive administration consists of some dozens of girls :)
[12:02] <slomo__> sivang: until.... now ;) please write me a mail or ping me tomorrow
[12:03] <sfllaw> Debian likes naming stuff after shiny things.
[12:04] <sivang> jmg: they're all elmo's girl freinds ;-)
[12:04] <sivang> slomo__: okay, sure, good night :)
[12:37] <zul> heylo
[12:37] <mdke> can you guys encrypt emails in evolution? It breaks for me and gpg seems to work ok
[12:38] <ogra> mdke, do you have any zombie processes of gpg around ? 
[12:38] <ogra> sometimes gpg dies below evo 
[12:38] <mdke> ah, now it's working
[12:39] <mdke> how odd
[12:39] <ogra> (and leaves a lock file in ~/.gnupg)
[12:47] <jmg> hmm
[12:55] <jmg> what is required to be able to modify specs on launchpad?
[12:55] <jmg> Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.
[12:55] <jmg> need to be an Ubuntu Member?
[01:04] <mdke> jmg, you edit the underlying wiki page
[01:05] <jmg> mdke: FooDraft?
[01:05] <jmg> mdke: it's not attached to a wiki page yet
[01:06] <jmg> mdke: I wanted to attach it
[01:06] <mdke> url?
[01:06] <mdke> oh I see what you mean
[01:06] <jmg> mdke: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenEnabledKernelDraft
[01:07] <mdke> I guess you have to be the spec registrant, but asking in #launchpad may tell you more
[01:07] <jmg> okay
[01:07] <mdke> what is the spec address?
[01:07] <pygi> night people
[01:07] <mdke> oh, i see it, sorry
[01:09] <jmg> mdke: is it a good spec?
[01:10] <mdke> jmg, I wouldn't know, I'm afraid
[01:14] <Seveas> are dependencies on "Priority: required" packages needed?
[01:24] <sivang> night all
[01:44] <mdke> Riddell, around?
[01:54] <Riddell> mdke: hi
[01:56] <mdke> Riddell, hiya. About those 3 things I mailed you: I was thinking I will have some time to look at them this weekend
[01:57] <mdke> Riddell, did you have any thoughts on where to put translations on the filesystem?
[02:01] <Riddell> mdke: I've not had time to look at it.  anywhere that the help ioslave can find them is good
[02:02] <mdke> Riddell, I'll do some tests
[02:03] <mdke> good night
[02:34] <alexr> Mithrandir: Hi there, I have a question for you regarding dapper live cd
[02:35] <alexr> Or maybe anybody else knows:
[02:35] <alexr> is the squashfs filesystem packaged with version2 of the driver going to be understood by the kernel?
[02:36] <alexr> In other words, the dapper kernel: what squashfs driver does it have?
[02:37] <crimsun> /boot/config-2.6.15-21-686:3201:CONFIG_SQUASHFS_2_0_COMPATIBILITY=y
[02:37] <alexr> crimsun: thanks!
[02:41] <alexr> crimsun: do I get it correctly that in dapper there's no need for install CD?
[02:41] <alexr> Except specialized server and OEM installs.
[02:42] <crimsun> depends whether you want a gui installer or the traditional curses-based one
[02:43] <alexr> Let me ask it this way then: for a computer-illiterate user, is Live CD enough to fully install the system?
[02:43] <alexr> Is there any added value in the Install CD?
[02:44] <crimsun> the live cd would be preferable for such a user.
[02:44] <alexr> Does install CD contain more packages than what can be installed from live?
[02:45] <crimsun> I don't know the packages seeded off the top of my head.
[02:45] <crimsun> You will want to use the live cd for that class of Ubuntu users, however.
[02:48] <alexr> Thanks.
[02:49] <alexr> But, seeded or not, the install cd does contain more packages than what's on the live, doesn't it?
[02:49] <crimsun> well, not knowing what's seeded for both makes it difficult to answer that. Someone else knows (but is likely asleep).
[02:50] <alexr> :-)
[03:24] <bddebian> Heya folks
[03:39] <jmg> hi bddebian 
[03:41] <welshbyte> howdy
[03:48] <bddebian> Hello jmg, welshbyte
[03:58] <jmg> hmm, network-manager is trying to be smart but sucking.
[04:00] <FunnyLookinHat> jmg, what do you mean?
[04:00] <jmg> invoke-rc.d networking start will bring up the interfaces successfuly, but network-manager then deconfigures my bridge and runs dhcp on my other nic
[04:00] <jmg> FunnyLookinHat: i think it just cant handle bridges
[04:01] <jmg> FunnyLookinHat: upshot is, whenever i boot into ubuntu, i have to dhclient
[04:01] <FunnyLookinHat> that's very weird.  What do you mean by bridges though?  network bridges?
[04:01] <jmg> FunnyLookinHat: yeah
[04:02] <FunnyLookinHat> very strange.
[04:02] <FunnyLookinHat> report it as bug yet?
[04:02] <jmg> no, im not sure whether its my fault or what.
[04:03] <jmg> mii-tool eth1 reports a link when there is none
[04:03] <jmg> that might be what confuses netman
[04:03] <FunnyLookinHat> yea, that IS a problem   lol
[04:04] <jmg> my eth1 is a 4 port switch
[04:04] <jmg> with an 8139 chip
[04:05] <FunnyLookinHat> yea i have no idea how to configure one of those
[04:12] <bddebian> Ack, I may have screwed up.  Should merges be subscribed to ubuntu-archive?
[04:21] <infinity> bddebian: If you mean syncs, yes.
[04:21] <infinity> bddebian: We don't do manual merges for you. :)
[04:22] <bddebian> infinity: Why the hell not? ;-P
[04:23] <bddebian> Well, I screwed up as usual then :-(
[04:27] <jmg> :-9
[04:27] <jmg> :-(
[06:37] <r3dick> Hello I was told on ubuntu-forums that I might find the info or the location of the info I need to figure out why after an update I cannot boot into 686 any more.  If this is so what is the correct protocol to ask for help please?
[06:42] <r3dick> I guess i was wrongly informed please forgive me. 
[06:42] <crimsun> only 2.6.15-21.32-686 ?
[06:42] <crimsun> as in 2.6.15-21.32-386 works fine? If so, please migrate to #ubuntu.
[06:43] <bddebian> meany :-)
[07:16] <zakame> hi all
[08:37] <pitti> Good morning
[08:38] <janimo> pitti, morning
[08:40] <pitti> hi janimo 
[08:42] <jdub> pitti: whoa, biggest cups changelog entry EVAR!
[08:52] <pitti> jdub: :)
[08:52] <pitti> hey carlos
[08:52] <carlos> pitti: hi
[08:53] <carlos> pitti: so, could we start doing weekly language packs for dapper?
[08:56] <pitti> carlos: I think so
[08:56] <carlos> pitti: today we will get another bunch of .pot files
[08:56] <pitti> carlos: I need to fix up a few small things for today's langpacks, but otherwise it should be fairly automatic now
[08:56] <carlos> ok
[08:56] <carlos> I'm going to plan the move of the script run into production
[08:57] <carlos> that way we don't depend on a mirror
[08:57] <carlos> pitti: that means the URL to fetch it will change
[08:57] <carlos> pitti: still need to check how to do it so we have always the same URL
[08:57] <pitti> carlos: no problem, just tell me early enough ;)
[08:57] <carlos> sure
[08:58] <carlos> pitti: about breezy and hoary...
[08:58] <carlos> pitti: I think we should do automatic updates too
[08:58] <carlos> I know we are still missing lots of .po files for those from Rosetta...
[08:58] <carlos> but we are going to handle only updates, right?
[08:58] <pitti> carlos: right
[08:59] <pitti> carlos: we already did it for breezy, that should be fine
[08:59] <pitti> similarly for hoary
[08:59] <carlos> ok
[08:59] <carlos> let's do the automatic updates for dapper
[08:59] <pitti> carlos: so if rosetta only gives us files with strings that were actually changed, it's all fine
[08:59] <jmg> its quite hardcore to get to look at this kind of cooperation :)
[08:59] <pitti> and it doesn't matter that they are incomplete
[09:00] <carlos> pitti: we do it already, I just need to start storing the date when latest language pack was exported
[09:00] <carlos> pitti: and that means that you should not miss any language pack export as I will do exports from previous one (for dapper will not be true until we have the final release)
[09:01] <carlos> jmg: wonderful, isn't it? ;-)
[09:05] <jmg> very :)
[09:10] <pitti> doko: today's dist-upgrade pulled in oo.o-gtk, but it's installation fails due to file conflicts to ooo-gnome; known?
[09:13] <joelbryan> hello, will the ideas posted in the SoC page will be the final project that people are going to work on?
[09:15] <robitaille> pitti:  is it bug 41251 ?
[09:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41251 in openoffice.org-amd64 "openoffice.org-gtk has a file conflict with openoffice.org-gnome" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41251
[09:16] <pitti> robitaille: indeed, thanks
[09:28] <mvo> doko: do you mind if I upload a new capiutils? 
[09:28] <janimo> Kamion, do you know why gnome-session ends up on the xubuntu livecd? gdm depends on it but alternately deps on xterm | x-window-manager too
[09:29] <janimo> at least xterm should be satistfied since it's in xubuntu-desktop. I saw no other place where gnome-session could be depended upon
[09:29] <Mithrandir> janimo: check with germinate?
[09:29] <janimo> Mithrandir: does germinate use another dependency algo than apt?
[09:29] <Mithrandir> janimo: I don'
[09:29] <janimo> do I need to look in the germinate package ?
[09:29] <Mithrandir> t remember
[09:30] <janimo> maybe when it comes to alternate depends it just picks differently..
[09:34] <Kamion> slomo: wavpack demoted, thanks
[09:35] <doko> pitti: amd64?
[09:35] <Kamion> Seveas: yes, you still have to depend on stuff if it's only Priority: required; you don't have to depend on it if it's also Essential: yes. procps is a classic example where it makes a difference.
[09:35] <doko> mvo: no
[09:36] <Seveas> Kamion, ok thanks - then I can file heaps of bugs about missing lsb-base dependencies 
[09:37] <Kamion> Seveas: yes, not depending on lsb-base is a bug, although you might find some packages have code to fall back to something else if lsb-base isn't there
[09:38] <Kamion> janimo: germinate's dependency algorithm is different, yes
[09:38] <Kamion> janimo: and alternate dependencies are one place where it sometimes falls down
[09:39] <nomed> janimo: in case you figure that out could you tell me, i' wanted to play  with that me too later .. but just in case it'll be needed
[09:39] <Kamion> janimo: I'm just pulling the xubuntu seeds now to have a look
[09:44] <janimo> Kamion, looks like ubuntu-artwork is pulled in too. It is the other package in gdm deps which has alternative depends there
[09:53] <Kamion> hmm, oh, it's not germinate that's at fault here, it's apt :P
[09:54] <Kamion> the live CDs are built by the buildds installing the metapackages
[09:54] <Kamion> which is worth remembering, since it means that you need to upload metapackages before seed changes have any effect on the live CD build process
[09:55] <janimo> Kamion: so I need to ./update in meta and upload xubuntu-desktop + live
[09:56] <janimo> although I only modified the ship seed lately
[09:56] <Kamion> it was a general comment, I hadn't looked at your metapackages
[09:56] <janimo> ok
[09:56] <sivang> re
[09:56] <Kamion> xubuntu-desktop looks OK; I claim an apt bug
[09:56] <Kamion> unless there's something more subtle pulling in gnome-session
[09:57] <janimo> ubuntu-artwork is pulled in too, and has fewer rdepends
[09:58] <Kamion> you could try debootstrapping a base chroot, apt-get install ubuntu-standard, and then 'apt-get -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true -s install ubuntu-artwork'
[09:58] <Kamion> you will get metric shedloads of output, but in there somewhere should be what apt was thinking
[09:59] <mvo> janimo: please put the output of the problem resolver on a pastebin
[10:00] <janimo> Kamion, mvo ok will do
[10:09] <janimo> debootstrapping takes some more time
[10:09] <janimo> but I wonder if it's an apt problem why does it manifest only on the liveCD? as desktop install is ok, gnome-session is not pulled in
[10:10] <Kamion> because the install CD installs the task (as synthesised in the CD Packages file by cdimage) not the metapackage
[10:10] <Kamion> different installation method
[10:13] <pitti> doko_: yes, it's already filed as bug 41251
[10:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41251 in openoffice.org-amd64 "openoffice.org-gtk has a file conflict with openoffice.org-gnome" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41251
[10:20] <sivang> mvo: did you have a chance to take a look at malone #40807 ?
[10:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40807 in gnome-session "Logout window dances around when hovering over Sleep and Hibernate buttons" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40807
[10:21] <sivang> oops
[10:21] <sivang> wrong bug number
[10:21] <sivang> mvo: malone #40802
[10:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40802 in gnome-system-tools "in users-admin user privileges there are 3 modem entries" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40802
[10:22] <mvo> sivang: no, not yet and probably not this week, too much other stuff
[10:22] <dholbach> hey mvo
[10:23] <janimo> Kamion, mvo : output of apt-get -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true -s install ubuntu-artwork in debootstrap http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12916
[10:23] <sivang> mvo: okay, can I just then ask you about 24_modem_group_string.patch which changed description of audio group from "Use sounde devices" to "Use serial devices such as Modems and Palm Pilots." , was that intentional? AFAICT this looks like a description bug.
[10:24] <janimo> although wouldn't gdm or xubuntu-desktop be more useful?
[10:24] <mvo> sivang: yeah, probably. if you prepare a fix I'm happy to review/upload
[10:25] <sivang> mvo: cool, then off I go :-) thanks and sorry for taking your time.
[10:25] <mvo> janimo: its not the problemResolvers problem it seem ... it dosn't find any problems to resolve ;)
[10:25] <mvo> sivang: thank you for fixing it 
[10:27] <janimo> mvo, ubuntu-artwork has no alternative deps
[10:27] <janimo> is there where problems appear?
[10:28] <mvo> janimo: I missed the earlier discussion so I'm not 100% up-to-date. but if apt is suspected for doing the wrong thing, then this is less likely because the problemResolver (who is usually responsible for doing-stuff-wrong) is not run 
[10:28] <janimo> mvo, it was about why gnome-session and ubuntu-artwork end up in the xubuntu livecd
[10:29] <janimo> when they are dependencies of gdm but have alternatives
[10:29] <janimo> like xterm and xubuntu-default-settings respectively
[10:29] <janimo> it may not be the gdm dep though
[10:30] <nomed> janimo: i guess you should change xubuntu-live seeds ?
[10:30] <mvo> janimo: so you install xubuntu-desktop in a clean chroot and it pulls in gnome-session and ubuntu-artwork?
[10:30] <nomed> it should deps on ubuiquity instead of espresso (?)
[10:30] <janimo> mvo, no xubuntu-desktop installs fine
[10:31] <janimo> it;s just when on the liveCD some other packages show up
[10:31] <janimo> mvo, actually wait it seems it does in clean chroot
[10:32] <janimo> so it may be it's not just the live but a recent change somewhere else
[10:34] <Kamion> nomed: merging from the Ubuntu seeds should be sufficient to make that change
[10:34] <Kamion> janimo: yes, as I said above it won't be just the live seed
[10:35] <janimo> nomed, it's already ubiquity in the seeds
[10:35] <janimo> but I need to do a meta upload I guess
[10:35] <Kamion> mvo: the buildds that build the live CD filesystems do so by apt-get -y install xubuntu-desktop
[10:35] <Kamion> mvo: the install CD uses aptitude -y install ~txubuntu-desktop
[10:35] <nomed> janimo: yes
[10:35] <Kamion> (or words to that effect)
[10:35] <Kamion> mvo: hence why janimo thinks it's live-CD-only, even though it really isn't
[10:35] <nomed> here apt-get update and apt-cache show xubuntu-live ... espresso is still there
[10:36] <mvo> Kamion: aptitude with --without-recommends I guess?
[10:36] <Kamion> mvo: yeah
[10:36] <janimo> nomed, on the livecd?
[10:36] <mvo> it may be a difference in the problemresolver then, aptitude nowdays (0.4.x) uses its own implementation
[10:36] <nomed> janimo: that would fix even the missing install icon
[10:37] <nomed> janimo: no 
[10:37] <Kamion> mvo: the difference is that apt-get is given the metapackage while aptitude is given the task
[10:38] <janimo> Kamion, so does any of these install recommends besides depends?
[10:38] <Kamion> mvo: either way, apt-get is apparently selecting the first one of gdm's alternate dependency on gnome-session | ... | xterm, even though xterm is also a dependency of xubuntu-desktop and so was going to be pulled in anyway; so it looks like it's going depth-first rather than breadth-first, or something
[10:38] <mvo> right (/me should look before typeing)
[10:38] <Kamion> janimo: no
[10:39] <Kamion> probably kind of hard to fix though; if it's not a critical problem for the xubuntu live CD it might be better to defer to edgy
[10:40] <Kamion> janimo: I'm just about to remove espresso from the archive, so I'd suggest uploading -meta, yes :)
[10:40] <janimo> Kamion sure, the probem is if everything on the live system gets copied over the disk
[10:41] <janimo> but I guess it can be worked around by puttin xterm as the first dep in gdm?
[10:41] <Kamion> yeah, but that would probably adversely affect Ubuntu
[10:42] <janimo> gnome-session is depended upon by other packages, like ubutu-desktop
[10:42] <janimo> so it will be in anyway
[10:42] <janimo> gdm depends on may packages which are already in default ubuntu-desktop
[10:44] <Kamion> I suspect the gdm maintainer will rightly feel that that dependency change would be wrong
[10:44] <Kamion> gnome-session *is* the preferred dependency
[10:45] <Kamion> dependencies should really be saying what we mean them to say, rather than being workarounds for problems in packaging tools, where possible ...
[10:45] <janimo> understood
[10:47] <janimo> although gdm does not really depend on any session, it can start whatever it's given.t hose would better be recommends imho
[10:49] <nomed> janimo: btw: distrowatch last 7 days ... pretty amazing
[10:49] <janimo> yeah, but I guess it will fade. it's the newness mostly
[10:58] <nomed> janimo: "apt-get install xterm xubuntu-live xubuntu-desktop" seems to solve that issue
[10:59] <nomed> while apt-get install xubuntu-live xubuntu-desktop installs gnome-session and more
[11:00] <dholbach> Kinnison: I just had a look at the g-p-m NEWS file - doesn't seem like icon theme stuff was added. Would you mind much, if I'd take the current source, add a patch to it (only add new files) and add some bits to debian/{rules,control} to uudecode icons? I'm happy to wait for your upload to add my stuff to it, if you prefer that.
[11:01] <Kamion> Riddell: is the kexi source package now superseded by koffice?
[11:02] <Kamion> nomed: that could go into the live CD build script as a workaround. Talk to infinity about that.
[11:02] <Kamion> infinity: ^--
[11:03] <Riddell> Kamion: yes it is
[11:03] <Kamion> Riddell: binaries kexi-mysql-driver, kexi-postgresql-driver, and libkexi-dev to be removed? (confirming)
[11:04] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I'm going to upload a new xorg in a little bit, ok?
[11:05] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes of course.
[11:05] <Riddell> Kamion: -drivers are, let me check on -dev
[11:05] <Kamion> Riddell: nothing depends/build-depends on it
[11:06] <Riddell> Kamion: there's a kexi-mdb in revu which I think does for MS access databases
[11:08] <Kamion> Riddell: mm, yeah, maybe koffice needs to start shipping that -dev then
[11:08] <Riddell> Kamion: yes, I think it does
[11:08] <Riddell> Kamion: keep it in for now, I'll get a proper answer toot sweet
[11:09] <Kamion> ta
[11:09] <Kamion> interesting how anastacia gets confused by that; it wants to promote the kexi source package
[11:10] <Kamion> Riddell: you want kplato in main? since it was new I shoved it in universe
[11:10] <Kamion> (but koffice depends on it)
[11:11] <Riddell> Kamion: is kplato being brought into main
[11:11] <Kamion> that's what I'm asking :)
[11:11] <Riddell> it should be in universe, it's still in "technology preview" stage
[11:11] <Kamion> oh, then please make koffice stop depending on it
[11:11] <Kamion> or else unseed koffice and seed individual packages, but that seems more drastic
[11:12] <Riddell> ok
[11:12] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I can change "xubuntu-desktop" to "xterm xubuntu-desktop", if that'll fix things for now.
[11:12] <Kamion> Riddell: also, does kexi want to be in main once we sort out this libkexi-dev issue?
[11:13] <Kamion> infinity: sounds like it
[11:13] <Riddell> Kamion: what's the plan for beta 2?  is it definately going ahead?
[11:13] <Riddell> Kamion: yes, kexi is a proper release now so it can be promoted
[11:13] <Kamion> infinity: possibly other changes required to get rid of ubuntu-artwork too, not sure; that sounds less urgent though
[11:13] <Kamion> Riddell: I need to sort out an issue with apt-setup that mdz reminded me of last night, but aside from that I'm planning to do the prep today
[11:14] <Kamion> we might as well do Flight CD 7 alongside, for the install CD; Beta 2 is only needed for the live CD
[11:14] <Kamion> so if you don't have time for a full QA pass on the install CDs, that's not so bad
[11:15] <Riddell> Kamion: libkexi-dev can go, the files are in koffice-dev now
[11:17] <janimo> nomed, good catch
[11:18] <janimo> gnome session install >50Mb worth  of deps so it's worth not having on the live and the installed system
[11:18] <Kamion> Riddell: ah, great. koffice-dev should Replaces: libkexi-dev then
[11:18] <janimo> and the actualbug that was reportyed against it is that while installed, it has not the whole gnome in so choising it in gdm dialog leads to misbehaviour
[11:18] <Riddell> yep, i'll do that now
[11:19] <Kamion> I'll remove in the next publisher-not-running window
[11:20] <infinity> Kamion: Okay, new livecd.sh rolled out with that hack in place.
[11:20] <ogra> so who made my CDs explode 
[11:21] <janimo> infinity: thanks, does that mean it affects todays live?
[11:22] <janimo> oh, today's live is out already so I guess not
[11:23] <ogra> grmbl, where do these 8M come from
[11:23] <infinity> janimo: Next daily, unless it's urgent that you test it.
[11:24] <janimo> infinity: not urgent, unless a beta2 is supposed to be happening for the derivatives too
[11:24] <nomed> janimo: it would be nice if within that iso there was the new xubuntu-meta ;)
[11:24] <janimo> and even in that case I'd like to wait for xubuntu-meta to build
[11:24] <janimo> nomed, yep :) I guess that's the reaosn for the missing install icon?
[11:25] <nomed> yes
[11:25] <nomed> it is
[11:26] <janimo> ok
[11:27] <nomed> we could even close bug 41344 ..
[11:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41344 in xubuntu-meta "icons missing on desktop in live cd" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41344
[11:27] <janimo> sure
[11:28] <nomed> janimo: i need you add an entry on your TODO list :)
[11:28] <janimo> what entry? :)
[11:28] <nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuIcons?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xfce-setting-show.png <--
[11:28] <nomed> the icons are done ..
[11:28] <nomed> now we need to have that panel themeable
[11:29] <janimo> is that not more an xfce upstream task?
[11:29] <nomed> janimo: it would be nice to just figure out what wrong 
[11:30] <nomed> then we can ping upstreamer
[11:30] <janimo> ok, it's on the TODO, just not on the top :)
[11:30] <nomed> it's really strange that if i remove all the icons ... that panel can still show them
[11:31] <janimo> i'll reboot now to see if the new usplash fixes the red color
[11:31] <nomed> janimo: consider that it could affect even tango upstreamer
[11:31] <janimo> ok
[11:35] <pitti> crimsun: do you know any bug that describes the failure of handling '!defaults.pcm.card foo'? Any idea how I can reproduce it here? I want to make sure that snd_pcm_open() really fails in an appropriate way in this case (and not some other function)
[11:36] <pitti> crimsun: (and I need the error code as well, since opening the sound card could fail for other reasons, like being busy)
[11:39] <ogra> Kamion, did ubiquity grow significantly in size over espresso ? 
[11:40] <ogra> the only things i see added are ubiquity, ttf-lao and xcursor-themes ... nothing justifies 8MB growth
[11:40] <Kamion> ogra: no
[11:40] <ogra> hmm
[11:41] <Kamion> nomed: janimo's gone, so you'll do :), yes, I do expect we'll want to do another beta of the Xubuntu live CD
[11:42] <nomed> perfect
[11:42] <nomed> btw: i wanted to test how smart bheaves on that situation :(
[11:42] <nomed> but espresso seems gone ...
[11:45] <ogra> nomed, yes, it was dropped some days ago 
[11:45] <sivang> mvo: http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/s-t-b/ , includes both a debdiff and a changed source.
[11:46] <sivang> mvo: (fix for malone #40802)
[11:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40802 in gnome-system-tools "in users-admin user privileges there are 3 modem entries" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40802
[11:46] <nomed> ogra: i guess just some minutes ago :)
[11:47] <ogra> nomed, on the weekend i think
[11:47] <Kamion> nomed: sorry, what situation?
[11:47] <mvo> sivang: thanks
[11:47] <Kamion> ogra: no, I removed it from the archive in the last cycle
[11:47] <ogra> ah, k
[11:47] <nomed> Kamion: the gnome-session issue
[11:48] <Kamion> nomed: ah, so espresso was a random tangent
[11:48] <ogra> i thought the first ubiquity just superceded espresso
[11:48] <Kamion> ogra: yes, but package removal is never automatic
[11:48] <ogra> s/just/upload just/
[11:48] <nomed> Kamion: xubuntu-meta has still espresso
[11:48] <ogra> ah
[11:48] <ogra> yep
[11:48] <Kamion> nomed: ok, janimo still needs to upload that
[11:48] <ogra> nope
[11:48] <ogra> its uploaded
[11:48] <nomed> i'll wait :)
[11:49] <ogra> (i see it on -changes)
[11:49] <Kamion> well, it still needs to build then
[11:50] <ogra> yep
[11:50] <ogra> as edubuntu-meta
[11:52] <Kamion> edubuntu-meta is built
[11:52] <Kamion> oh, not your most recent upload, ok
[11:53] <ogra> :)
[11:53] <ogra> it didnt have the espresso change
[12:08] <mjg59> Diziet: With latest updates, I'm still seeing bad fonts in epiphany. Is that expected?
[12:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: can you send me ubiquity changes needed to correspond to your xorg keyboard changes?
[12:37] <Mithrandir> Kamion: remind me what package that would be in?
[12:37] <Mithrandir> oh, true
[12:37] <Mithrandir> I found it
[12:38] <Kamion> yeah, core ubiquity now
[12:40] <Harti> hello
[12:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, you don't ship .bzr in the source any more?
[12:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: never did
[12:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I don't like shipping revision control detritus in source trees; I've never found it particularly helpful
[12:41] <Harti> the new flashplugin-nonfree 7.0.63.1-ubuntu2 is broken!
[12:42] <Kamion> and it encourages people to forget to merge from my trunk :)
[12:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I find it useful with bzr and other distributed RCS-es, but YMMV.  You'll get a patch in a little bit, then.
[12:42] <Kamion> ta
[12:42] <ogra> Harti, wait for 7.0.63.3ubuntu1 and please use LP for bugs
[12:43] <Kamion> Harti: I imagine that would be https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/41442; feel free to subscribe
[12:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41442 in flashplugin-nonfree "flash doesn't install now" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[12:43] <Harti> ok
[12:51] <Diziet> mjh59: No, it's not expected.  Can you provide a testcase ?
[12:53] <Kamion> mdz: ok, I just checked and /etc/apt/sources.list does now appear to contain lines for network sources even if you're not connected during installation, whether on the install or on the live CD
[12:53] <Kamion> mdz: I thought I observed otherwise earlier, but I guess I was wrong
[12:57] <Diziet> mjg59: No, it's not expected.  Can you provide a testcase ?
[12:57] <Diziet> Damn, why do I keep doing that ?  (mjg->mjh)
[12:59] <Kamion> Mithrandir: do you care if your xorg keyboard change doesn't get into the beta? if the answer's "no", then I don't have to rebuild Ubuntu and Kubuntu livefses ...
[01:00] <Mithrandir> Kamion: no, I don't.  It only touches initial installations anyway.
[01:00] <Kamion> I'll just rebuild Edubuntu and Xubuntu then
[01:00] <ogra> i'm not yet sure edubuntu is good
[01:01] <ogra> i have no idea where these 8 megs come from, i need to compensate that first 
[01:01] <Mithrandir> Kamion: So we're doing a beta 2 this week?
[01:03] <Kamion> ogra: you talking about install or live CDs?
[01:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, was planning on rolling the images today so we can test with at least some leisure
[01:03] <ogra> Kamion, install is oversized in any case, i'm not sure about live 
[01:03] <Mithrandir> Kamion: not redoing install, I presume?
[01:03] <Kamion> ogra: live looks OK
[01:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes, but calling that Flight CD 7, not beta; and perhaps we might want to do that next week
[01:04] <ogra> hmm, i386 at 697M ...
[01:04] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok.
[01:04] <Kamion> so yeah, might be best to just ignore it for today
[01:04] <Kamion> given that I don't want to spend too much time on this
[01:13] <mjg59> Diziet: news.bbc.co.uk renders in a font that has ugly colour fringing
[01:13] <mjg59> I can provide a screenshot?
[01:15] <Treenaks> color fringing? sounds like a wrong subpixel setting/
[01:15] <mjg59> Treenaks: No, it's choosing a poorly-hinted (or without hinting) font
[01:15] <ivoks> ?
[01:15] <mjg59> Which wasn't previously the default behaviour
[01:16] <Diziet> mjg59: screenshot> Yes, please.  (I must reinstall my testbed.)
[01:16] <Diziet> When did this start happening ?
[01:16] <mjg59> It's been that way since the initial font behaviour change
[01:16] <mjg59> I can't tell if it's precisely the same font or not
[01:17] <mjg59> Diziet: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/fringes.png
[01:17] <ivoks> 404
[01:17] <Kamion> hmm, I have to rebuild ubuntu/kubuntu amd64/powerpc anyway since they don't have the latest ubiquity; oh well
[01:17] <mjg59> Argh
[01:17] <mjg59> diziet: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/fringes.png
[01:18] <ogra> thats nimbus again
[01:18] <mjg59> Yes
[01:18] <ogra> nimbus sans to be precise
[01:18] <Mithrandir> Kamion: http://err.no/bzr/ubiquity for the keyboard fix
[01:18] <mjg59> I'm not good at identifying fonts
[01:19] <ogra> i roughly know th eones we always have probs with :)
[01:19] <mjg59> I don't believe I've ever touched my font settings
[01:19] <mjg59> But if I did, I haven't touched them since well before the fontconfig fiddling
[01:19] <Diziet> Why are there no .jigdo's for the livecds ?
[01:19] <ogra> you have switched your ff to use sans 
[01:20] <ogra> at least
[01:20] <mjg59> ogra: No
[01:20] <Kamion> Diziet: there's no way to do them usefully
[01:20] <mjg59> I haven't touched my firefox config
[01:20] <Diziet> Oh, is it all compressed ?
[01:20] <Kamion> Diziet: the main content of the live CD is a giant squashfs image
[01:20] <mjg59> (since I don't use it)
[01:20] <ogra> mjg59, oh, wow, that happens with default ff settings ?
[01:20] <mjg59> ogra: That's epiphany
[01:20] <Kamion> so the corresponding .template would be nearly as big as the image itself
[01:20] <ivoks> it looks ok in epiphany here
[01:20] <ogra> blind me, indeed
[01:21] <Kamion> they do rsync fairly well, though
[01:24] <Diziet> Yes, epiphany does seem to be using Nimbus.
[01:24] <ogra> the current i386 edubuntu live is fine ... so if we have no regressions, it will stay that way :)
[01:25] <ogra> meh, i have still to run dhclient manually to get wireless ?
[01:25] <ogra> Keybuk, wasnt that fixed ?
[01:25] <Keybuk> ogra: no, is casper bug
[01:25] <ogra> ah
[01:26] <ogra> i thought i saw an related upload
[01:26] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/casper/+changelog
[01:26] <Keybuk> recent upload doesn't mention anything
[01:26] <_ion> Btw, does linux-image-server contain grsec?
[01:27] <Keybuk> the bug is that casper only writes an /e/n/i entry for those cards there are drivers for the initramfs
[01:27] <Keybuk> because most wireless cards need firmware or are in lrm, they're obviously missed out
[01:27] <Keybuk> I suggested we just always write a couple of spare /e/n/i entries <g>
[01:28] <ivoks> _ion: nope :(
[01:28] <_ion> ivoks: :-(
[01:28] <ogra> mine is a lame pcmcia card ... i guess thats the prob
[01:28] <Keybuk> oh, I doubt that's handled either <g>
[01:28] <ogra> yep
[01:28] <_ion> It shouldn't break anything if it were off by default. But the admin could enable it without having to compile her own kernel.
[01:29] <ogra> in fact i have not one card here where it works
[01:29] <Riddell> Kamion: are the text install images still to be rebuilt too?
[01:29] <Kamion> well pcmciautils ain't in the initramfs, so it won't
[01:29] <Kamion> Riddell: not today
[01:29] <Riddell> Kamion: so 20060426 is candidate for beta 2?  or not yet
[01:29] <Diziet> Well, the problem is that epiphany is not setting the anymetrics=1 property (and indirectly that fontconfig is misdesigned and pango uses it in buggy ways).
[01:30] <ogra> Kamion, is it planned to get it into initramfs ? 
[01:30] <Riddell> s/beta 2/flight 7/
[01:30] <Kamion> Riddell: I'll not be releasing the install CD with Beta 2 - just reusing the existing one
[01:30] <ivoks> _ion: i think grsec was never considerd for inclusion
[01:30] <Diziet> Just to confirm, no-one is seeing this wrong fonts problem with ff rather than epi ?
[01:30] <Riddell> Kamion: right
[01:30] <Kamion> Riddell: I think we'll just do Flight 7 next week rather than trying to do them both at once
[01:30] <ogra> i imagine there are more pcmcia devices out there than wireless cards
[01:30] <Kamion> Riddell: no images are candidate yet
[01:30] <_ion> ivoks: That's a shame.
[01:30] <Kamion> ogra: I haven't thought about it - probably best avoided for dapper
[01:31] <ogra> uuh
[01:31] <Kamion> it would be useful for PCMCIA hard drives
[01:31] <ogra> yep, or CDs
[01:31] <Kamion> for the live CD case, yes
[01:31] <Diziet> rsync on the .iso> just in time, no doubt, for me to rsync the beta 2 over the top of my beta download ...
[01:32] <Kamion> Diziet: usually only takes about an hour for me to rsync a live ISO over that sort of time interval
[01:32] <Keybuk> ogra: ok, fixed casper
[01:32] <Kamion> Diziet: beta (1) is fine if you're not planning on installing it, though
[01:32] <Kamion> vivies.buildd [10.211.37.18]  22 (ssh) : No route to host
[01:32] <Kamion> no biscuits for vivies
[01:33] <ogra> Keybuk, yay, thanks :)))
[01:33] <Diziet> I was planning on installing it on my testbed.  It's either that or some early beta and upgrade.  My last dapper install on the testbed machine has rotted.
[01:33] <Kamion> Diziet: ah, well today's daily-live should be OK then; we won't actually be releasing beta-2 until tomorrow, I expect
[01:34] <Diziet> OK, ta.
[01:34] <Kamion> (assuming your testbed is i386)
[01:34] <Diziet> Yes.
[01:34] <Kamion> Right. The other arches are a little out of date installer-wise.
[01:34] <Diziet> But first I have to go on my quarterly orange juice errand :-).
[01:43] <Kamion> +        if k == "slovene":
[01:43] <Kamion> +            xmap = "si"
[01:43] <Kamion>              variant = "de"
[01:43] <Kamion> Mithrandir: really?
[01:43] <Kamion> si/de?
[01:43] <Mithrandir> no
[01:43] <Mithrandir> that's wrong
[01:43] <Mithrandir> on phone, I'll fix
[01:44] <Kamion> ta
[01:46] <Mithrandir> Kamion: fixed, pushed
[01:59] <pitti> mjg59: as a workaround fix for this at_console dbus bug, could libpam-console provide a world-executable suid program that just returns whether the caller is on the currently active console?
[01:59] <pitti> mjg59: erm, libpam-foreground of course
[01:59] <mjg59> pitti: Yes - how would that help?
[01:59] <pitti> mjg59: g-p-m and g-v-m could call it directly instead of going through dbus
[02:00] <mjg59> It would /work/, but, well
[02:00] <pitti> that doesn't prevent attacks of course
[02:00] <pitti> it would just unbreak g-[pv] -m
[02:00] <pitti> I don't like it either, but ...
[02:00] <mjg59> Why is it so difficult to get dbus to check to context on every call?
[02:01] <pitti> mjg59: because you don't have the policy on the call any more
[02:01] <pitti> mjg59: 'at_console' is completely resolved at policy parsing time
[02:01] <pitti> it's not stored in any internal data structure
[02:01] <mjg59> Oh, right. Hmph.
[02:01] <mjg59> Can we fudge it in without breaking compatibility?
[02:01] <mjg59> This is something that's going to have to be fixed upstream in any case
[02:01] <pitti> in principle yes, these are just internal data structures
[02:02] <pitti> it's just a lot of work
[02:02] <mjg59> I'll take a quick look later on
[02:02] <pitti> well, hm, the structs could be public API 
[02:02] <mjg59> Have to go and finish defrosting a freezer now
[02:02] <pitti> so it might actually break the ABI
[02:11] <Kamion> Mithrandir: merged and pushed, thanks
[02:15] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: where is the bzr branch for your casper stuff?
[02:29] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: no such thing
[02:29] <Keybuk> -EEFFORT
[02:31] <Keybuk> just unpack the new source over the top of your branch and commit :)
[02:32] <Mithrandir> no, since it was you who did the commit, I committing would be wrong.
[02:33] <Keybuk> where's your bzr branch?
[02:35] <Kamion> beta-candidate Ubuntu live CDs up for testing; Kubuntu building
[02:35] <Kamion> beta2-candidate, that is
[02:36] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it's shipped in the source package.
[02:36] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: but it also lives at http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/bzr/casper/trunk
[02:36] <Kamion> I particularly want testing of the installer, and especially so if your usual use of the installer triggers a crash; I'd like to know that (a) the installer can be properly restarted after the crash and (b) it doesn't eat your partition table (also check if 'ps aux | grep part' says anything)
[02:37] <Kamion> I'm reasonably sure both of these properties will hold now
[02:37] <Kamion> (muttermutterbloodySIGPIPEhandlersanyway)
[02:38] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: ok, pull from my new upload when it's in the archive
[02:38] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: you're lazy, but ok :-P
[02:38] <TheMuso> Kamion: I expect to be able to give the installer a thorough a11y runthrough in the next few days. I have been meaning to for a while, but haven't got round to it yet.
[02:39] <StevenK> Kamion: Geez, you'd think you were bitter. :-P
[02:39] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: yes :)  lazyness is a virtue
[02:39] <Keybuk> (and mostly I can never get bzr push to work for me)
[02:41] <j^> Keybuk whats your plan for NM, since 0.6.2 orinoco_pci and others are broken for WEP/open aps, this is the case no for some time...
[02:43] <Kamion> StevenK: no, languages that do things behind my back that have weird side effects that cause me to be responsible for serious data loss don't annoy me at all :P
[02:43] <Kamion> TheMuso: ta
[02:43] <Keybuk> j^: ignore it for as long as possible, get drunk, then look at the bug list
[02:44] <Kamion> Riddell: beta2-candidate Kubuntu live CDs up for testing
[02:44] <StevenK> Kamion: :-)
[02:45] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks
[02:46] <j^> Keybuk hm 'k, sounds like a plan, not a good one though, but hey
[02:46] <Kamion> Edubuntu and Xubuntu are blocked on the buildds waking up
[02:46] <Keybuk> j^: if you'd asked a more sensible question, you may have got a more sensible answer
[02:46] <ogra> Kamion, but i tested the current amd64/i386 already ... should be fine once -meta is done
[02:47] <Kamion> ogra: your test is kind of meaningless though from the installer point of view, since it was done with espresso, which predates all the fixes I actually care about for beta 2
[02:47] <ogra> Kamion, i mostly care about the CD working :)
[02:47] <Kamion> ogra: yes, well I care about the installer not eating people's partition tables, and that's the *entire purpose* of Beta 2
[02:48] <ogra> yep, i know 
[02:48] <ogra> but your install CDs didnt explode :)
[02:48] <Kamion> I can't just not release Beta 2 for Edubuntu, so if you reckon it'll all work, I can just release it and direct complaints to you :)
[02:48] <ogra> i feared desktop had grown
[02:58] <zul> heylo
[03:12] <zakame> hi all
[03:32] <slomo_> is it a known problem that nothing is built currently?
[03:32] <Kamion> slomo_: yeah, I was bugging cprov to look into it earlier, but it might need infinity
[03:32] <Kamion> infinity: if by some miracle you happen to be up ...
[03:36] <slomo_> hm is auto-depwait cleaning already implemented? i.e. if i upload something that waits for something else to be built and gets on depwait for now it will be cleaned from depwait after the dependency is built? or does this still need manual work?
[03:48] <bddebian> Heya folks
[03:50] <sivang> hey bddebian 
[03:51] <bddebian> Howdy sivang.  What should we break today? ;-P
[03:58] <Solarion> dholbach: ping
[04:03] <sivang> bddebian: Well, I've already broken one package, sudo apt-get install upbackup and see for yourself ;-)
[04:03] <bddebian> Doh
[04:04] <pitti> sivang: 'no such package'
[04:05] <slomo_> sivang: where's the problem?
[04:05] <ogra> its not built yet
[04:05] <ogra> just passed NEW
[04:09] <sivang> slomo_: internally in the code :)
[04:09] <sivang> slomo_: everything looks fine until you try to create a backup archive
[04:10] <slomo_> sivang: want me to upload a new version?
[04:12] <Kamion> pitti: remind me, were your ubiquity install test failures on reiserfs?
[04:12] <pitti> Kamion: yes
[04:12] <sivang> slomo_: yes, already in revu
[04:13] <pitti> Kamion: more precisely, it failed if the target root partition was originally reiserfs
[04:13] <slomo_> sivang: please give me the latest url :)
[04:13] <pitti> Kamion: i. e. even if it was reformatted to ext3
[04:13] <pitti> Kamion: thanks for the checkrdepends fix, btw
[04:13] <Kamion> pitti: not sure about if it's reformatted to ext3, but if it remains reiserfs, I suspect doing 'apt-get --purge remove libreiserfs0.3-0' before starting the installer may help
[04:13] <slomo_> sivang: and didn't you want to rename the package btw? now if you rename it we have to go through NEW again...
[04:14] <Kamion> slomo_: that's not massive hardship
[04:14] <Kamion> given the binary isn't through NEW anyway
[04:14] <bddebian> Heya slomo_, did you get my e-mail?
[04:15] <slomo_> bddebian: yes, thanks :) but i didn't read it yet, i will later tonight
[04:15] <bddebian> NP
[04:16] <sivang> slomo_: hmm, yesm but I don't chagne the package name right now
[04:17] <waylandbill> I had a suggestion for the Live CD Installer. Is this the right place?
[04:18] <slomo_> sivang: ok, np :) but i have to leave now again... i think you'll find someone else to upload it until i'm back
[04:18] <sivang> slomo_: okay, thanks
[04:18] <Kamion> waylandbill: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+filebug is a better place, but I'm happy to talk about things if you want to check before filing
[04:20] <Riddell> Kamion: the 20060416.1 i386 kubuntu live CD seems to be an ubuntu CD
[04:20] <waylandbill> my suggestion is that the number one question new users have is regarding administration. They don't know the root password. My thought is that when they create the initial user, the screen should let them know that it will be a wheel member and can do admin things via sudo.
[04:20] <waylandbill> ok.. it may not be the #1 question, but it's a top one. :-)
[04:20] <mjg59> waylandbill: On new installs, users get a message telling them that
[04:21] <mjg59> Every time they open a terminal, until they use sudo for the first time
[04:21] <mjg59> Anyway.
[04:21] <Kamion> I've got no objection to mentioning it in the installer
[04:21] <Kamion> waylandbill: feel free to file a bug about that, URL above
[04:21] <waylandbill> Kamion, ok. will do.
[04:22] <Kamion> Riddell: Ubuntu CDs have konqueror on them?
[04:22] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~$ grep '^konqueror ' cdimage/www/full/kubuntu/daily-live/20060426.1/dapper-live-i386.manifest
[04:22] <Kamion> konqueror 4:3.5.2-0ubuntu14
[04:23] <bddebian> Riddell: I have a dumb question.  I'm thinking of install kubuntu on this Dell laptop sitting here.  Do I just do a normal install then install kubuntu-desktop or is there a better way?
[04:30] <Riddell> bddebian: normal install?
[04:30] <bddebian> Riddell: Normal Dapper install
[04:30] <Riddell> bddebian: if you already have an ubuntu install then apt-get install kubuntu-desktop, if installing from scratch download a kubuntu CD
[04:30] <bddebian> Oh, hmm
[04:30] <jjesse> download the live cd and install it from espresso :)
[04:31] <Riddell> jjesse: espresso doesn't exist any more remember
[04:32] <bddebian> ubitquity or some such nonsense? :-)
[04:36] <Kamion> ubiquity
[04:36] <Kamion> and, come on, it's not like espresso meant anything
[04:36] <ogra> espresso means staying awake at night ;)
[04:37] <ogra> (i bet you know that best ;) )
[04:37] <bddebian> Kamion: Sorry, didn't mean to offend, I'm just bugfighting so I can't keep up with the "real" work :-)
[04:37] <jjesse> grin i quit forgetting
[04:37] <bddebian> heh
[04:38] <jjesse> some college girl came to the running group that my wife and i are a part of and she had three double espressos to help her study for exams and then was going to run, she didn't make it very, just remember don't run on a lot of caffiene
[04:39] <bddebian> heh
[04:48] <bddebian> Kamion: Can you fix LP member issues and such?
[04:52] <carlos> doko: I already removed the oo.org translations you asked me except for the Kurdish  ones because I need to do some changes first
[04:53] <carlos> doko: feel free to do a new upload, I will fix Kurdish manually later
[04:53] <doko> carlos: thanks
[04:55] <carlos> np
[04:57] <Kamion> bddebian: I can fix you not being a member if you should be, certainly
[04:58] <Kamion> Riddell: have you sorted out your Kubuntu live CD issues, or does it still seem broken? I can't see any brokenness at little's end
[04:59] <bddebian> Kamion: Well that and my @ubuntu.com mail has never worked
[04:59] <bddebian> But maybe you guys don't want me anymore :'-(
[04:59] <Kamion> bddebian: @ubuntu.com mail is dependent on membership in LP
[04:59] <ogra> given that he's uploading like mad he should probably be a member :)
[05:00] <Kamion> bddebian: do you happen to remember roughly when the CC meeting that accepted you was?
[05:00] <Kamion> ah, 2005-07-19
[05:00] <bddebian> Egads, it was back when Breezy was getting hot.  I guess I can probably grep the logs
[05:01] <Kamion> I just did :)
[05:01] <Kamion> bddebian: please visit https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join
[05:02] <Riddell> Kamion: I was of course being silly, or k3b was or something
[05:02] <Riddell> Kamion: all kubuntu live CDs are good
[05:02] <Riddell> espresso working nicely too
[05:02] <Riddell> err, ubiquity
[05:02] <Riddell> doh
[05:02] <ogra> heh
[05:04] <Kamion> great
[05:04] <Kamion> if you fancy triggering the crash handler at some point that'd be good too
[05:04] <Kamion> it worked for me but of course that's never an endorsement :)
[05:06] <Kamion> buildds have been restarted and are building stuff, BTW; the sequencer died this morning for unexplained reasons
[05:10] <bddebian> Kamion: Done, thx
[05:14] <bddebian> Is the sync issue resolved?
[05:21] <Kamion> bddebian: not yet, AFAIK
[05:22] <bddebian> Damnit, eric still doesn't conflict with eric3 even in the new version
[05:22] <Kamion> bddebian: ubuntumembers membership approved
[05:22] <bddebian> Thank you sir
[05:23] <Riddell> bddebian: does eric successfully save files yet?
[05:23] <Kamion> if the new version isn't needed for that, then just add the conflicts directly?
[05:25] <bddebian> Riddell: Dunno it's weird.  It went from 3.8.1 to 3.8.2 but the orig.tar.gzs have 0 differences
[05:27] <pitti> Kamion: just read your libreiserfs0.3-0 mail, thanks for debugging that
[05:27] <Kamion> I was sitting there going "how the hell can I be getting -EIO in vmware?"
[05:30] <bddebian> Riddell: When my kubuntu install finishes, I'll test it :-)
[05:39] <janimo> freeflying: what about the other scim- packages
[05:39] <janimo> there seem to be more of tjem not included besides the four you mentioned
[05:39] <bddebian> Yikes, 522Mb of stuff for kubuntu-desktop..
[05:40] <freeflying> janimo: scim-tables inlude qite more ,like Thai,etc
[05:40] <janimo> others like cann, prime, skk ?
[05:40] <janimo> are some of these less needed than others?
[05:40] <janimo> less frequently used or covering less users?
[05:41] <janimo> tables-{zh,ja,ko} are those not needed?
[05:41] <freeflying> janimo: those needn't at all 
[05:42] <freeflying> tables- would be nice
[05:44] <janimo> which are not needed? canna, prime, skk? deprecated? I see now they're in universe
[05:44] <freeflying> janimo: cann, prime, skk 
[05:47] <nomed> Kamion: i do not know if it has been changed something more than ubiquity in the xubuntu-meta ..
[05:47] <nomed> but smart doesn't install gnome-session
[05:48] <nomed> while apt wants to install it ...
[05:50] <nomed> same for ubuntu-artwork pkge ...
[05:51] <Kamion> nomed: that's the same problem as we were talking about this morning; nothing's changed
[05:52] <Kamion> does 'apt-get install xterm xubuntu-desktop' want to install gnome-session too now?
[05:52] <nomed> Kamion: no
[05:52] <nomed> but if you remember i told you i would test same stuff in smart
[05:52] <nomed> and smart doesn't need xterm as first entry
[05:53] <Kamion> fair enough, and good to know; though it doesn't really help us for dapper ;)
[05:53] <nomed> eheh i know
[05:57] <doko> Diziet: do you have an example how to use the <and> and <or> elements in fonts.conf?
[05:59] <jono> hi all, do you know that a recent xserver-xorg pakcage update is borked?
[06:00] <nomed> ogra: around ?
[06:00] <ogra> sure
[06:00] <nomed> does edubuntu use ubuntu-artwork ?
[06:00] <Mithrandir> jono: bug #?
[06:00] <nomed> ogra: i guess it's in the livecd ...
[06:00] <jono> Mithrandir: just checking if anyone knew about it - its reported on the forums at http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=166410
[06:01] <Mithrandir> jono: grr, I suck.  Mea culpa, I'll fix it.
[06:01] <ogra> nomed, beware no !
[06:01] <jono> Mithrandir: :)
[06:01] <ogra> nomed, we dont have this much space :)
[06:02] <ogra> nomed, edubuntu uses edubuntu-artwork only
[06:02] <nomed> ogra: i'm asking this because gdm wants to install ubuntu-artwork ...
[06:02] <nomed> i do not understand why it doesn't happen in edubuntu :/
[06:02] <ogra> it should depend on ubuntu-artwork|edubuntu-artwork|xubuntu-artwork
[06:02] <ogra> gdm that is
[06:03] <nomed> same as gnome-session
[06:03] <nomed> janimo: could you confirm we need this ?
[06:03] <nomed> apt-get  install xterm xubuntu-default-settings xubuntu-live xubuntu-desktop
[06:03] <ogra> nomed, that was fixed before seb128 went on holiday
[06:04] <ogra> ooooh
[06:04] <ogra> it wasnt apparently
[06:04] <ogra> gdm depends;  ubuntu-artwork | edubuntu-artwork,
[06:04] <ogra> xubuntu-artwork needs to be added to that list
[06:05] <Mithrandir> jono: fix uploaded.
[06:05] <jono> Mithrandir: thanks :)
[06:05] <nomed> ogra: the xubuntu problem is that even if gdm has alternatives it tries to use the first entry
[06:05] <nomed> so even if xubuntu-desktop depends on xterm
[06:05] <Kamion> janimo: please also try explicitly seeding xubuntu-artwork if you want gdm to use it
[06:05] <nomed> gdm tries to install gnome-session ...
[06:05] <jono> Mithrandir: how long does it take to go through?
[06:05] <Mithrandir> jono: thanks to you too, I should learn to test my changes even when they're trivial..
[06:05] <Kamion> nomed: ^-- that's probably part of why ubuntu-artwork gets pulled in
[06:05] <ogra> nomed, not if one of the alternatives is already there
[06:06] <nomed> Kamion: i guess so
[06:06] <jsgotangco> heh i just received a bug about the breakage
[06:06] <Kamion> ogra: not always true, see discussion from this morning
[06:06] <jsgotangco> i will just tag it as committed
[06:06] <Mithrandir> jono: probably didn't make this dinstall cycle so it won't be live for another two and a half hours.
[06:06] <jsgotangco> err released
[06:06] <Mithrandir> uh, not dinstall, publisher.
[06:06] <nomed> anyway ...
[06:06] <ogra> Kamion, if xubuntu-artwork is there it shouldnt attempt to install any other -artwork package, no ?
[06:06] <nomed> xubuntu-default-settings is there
[06:06] <Kamion> ogra: see discussion from this morning; it will be quite tedious to go over it again
[06:07] <ogra> ok
[06:07] <nomed> and that is where gdm conf file is
[06:07] <Kamion> ogra: to summarise, if you're installing xubuntu-artwork *at the same time* (rather than it being already installed) then apt sometimes forgets about it when satisfying alternate dependencies
[06:07] <ogra> hmm, havent seen that with edubuntu 
[06:08] <nomed> and i really would figure out why this doesn't happen on edubuntu ...
[06:08] <ogra> but anyway, gdm is missing that dependency
[06:08] <chris_> hmm
[06:08] <ogra> as long as thats not fixed it cant work at all
[06:08] <Kamion> nomed: edubuntu (a) uses gnome-session so doesn't care about that case (b) has edubuntu-artwork explicitly seeded
[06:08] <chris_> xserver-xorg is broken - you know? 
[06:08] <Kamion> chris_: yes, (a) fix is making its way through the archive now, (b) use the bug tracking system :)
[06:09] <nomed> Kamion: k .. got it
[06:09] <ogra> nomed, you'll need that alternative dep in gdm 
[06:09] <nomed> ogra: xubuntu-default-setting has gdm theme :)
[06:09] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/41605
[06:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41605 in xorg xserver-xorg "xserver-xorg broken packaged in update-manager (26/04)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[06:10] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you might want to close that one
[06:10] <ogra> nomed, gdm needs a dependency on itz
[06:10] <jsgotangco> im closing it now
[06:10] <Kamion> ogra: gdm Depends: ubuntu-artwork | edubuntu-artwork | xubuntu-default-settings
[06:10] <ogra> currently gdm needs either ubuntu-artwork *or* edubuntu-artwork ... as long as gdm doesnt know about xubuntu it will stay that way
[06:11] <ogra> Kamion, hmm ? 
[06:11] <ogra> not here
[06:11] <ogra>  gksu (>= 1.0.7), ubuntu-artwork | edubuntu-artwork, ubuntu-sounds
[06:11] <ogra> (powerpc)
[06:11] <Kamion> ogra: drescher trumps you
[06:11] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: you beat me to it, thanks.
[06:13] <alexr> Mithrandir: Can I ask you a question about live CD?
[06:14] <alexr> Or maybe somebody else can answer this:
[06:14] <alexr> If I tweak dapper live cd to add a few packages, everything is fine for the live session.
[06:15] <alexr> But if I install with espresso then all my packages are removed.
[06:15] <Kamion> alexr: you need to add suitable lines to /casper/filesystem.manifest and /casper/filesystem.manifest-desktop
[06:15] <ogra> Kamion, i'm silly and blind, sorry
[06:15] <alexr> OK, so which manifest is for what?
[06:15] <Kamion> espresso (now called ubiquity) removes the set-difference of filesystem.manifest-desktop and filesystem.manifest to make sure live-CD-only packages don't get installed
[06:16] <Kamion> alexr: manifest is everything that's installed, manifest-desktop is the stuff that should end up on the installed system
[06:16] <alexr> Nice, thanks!
[06:16] <alexr> Does the alphabetical sorting matter?
[06:16] <Kamion> alexr: hmm, did you edit manifest?
[06:16] <Kamion> alexr: (already, before coming here)
[06:16] <alexr> Kamion: yes, I edited manufest but not -desktop
[06:17] <Kamion> ah, yeah, thought so
[06:17] <ogra> apt-cache show shows installed and available versions it seems ... while the installed one comes last ...
[06:17] <Kamion> alexr: no, sorting doesn't matter
[06:17] <alexr> Was not sure which is which and whetehr they're used.
[06:17] <Surak> people using dapper are complaining about latest xorg update.
[06:17] <Kamion> Surak: already fixed, fix is building
[06:18] <Surak> thanks. I was doing support at #ubuntu-br and three people asked me this at the same time.
[06:18] <Kamion> alexr: would a comment at the top of those files be helpful?
[06:18] <alexr> Kamion: this is how I produced the manifest:
[06:18] <alexr> dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Package} ${Version}\n'  >  iso/casper/filesystem.manifest
[06:18] <Kamion> several people have been in here in the last fifteen minutes asking about it
[06:18] <alexr> Kamion: yes, a comment would be great.
[06:18] <Kamion> I'd best make ubiquity ignore comments then
[06:18] <alexr> Kamion: so should I just add my packages to the -desktop manually?
[06:19] <Surak> Can we change channel topic so people will stop asking this here?
[06:19] <alexr> Surak: sorry, but where else would I ask this?
[06:20] <Kamion> alexr: Surak is talking about something else
[06:20] <Kamion> damn, overflow
[06:20] <Surak> alexr: i was talking about xorg , as the channel topic confirms to us now :-)
[06:20] <alexr> Surak: no problem :-)
[06:21] <alexr> Kamion: so does ubiquity use same seeding mechanism as the former instalelr?
[06:21] <Kamion> alexr: yeah, just add them manually. We do it by running the exact same dpkg-query command you used, but twice: once after installing everything up to ubuntu-desktop etc., and once after installing the rest
[06:21] <Kamion> alexr: kinda sorta
[06:21] <Kamion> alexr: what exactly do you mean?
[06:21] <alexr> Kamion: how do I find out the username of the first created user?
[06:22] <Kamion> alexr: passwd/username in debconf
[06:22] <alexr> So this did not change.
[06:22] <Kamion> we use a lot of the same code
[06:22] <Kamion> and a lot of new code
[06:23] <alexr> Before, I would add this in the install CD's seed file:
[06:23] <alexr> Darn, can't find it now :-)
[06:23] <alexr> I would add this in the postinst:
[06:24] <alexr> set -e
[06:24] <alexr> . /usr/share/debconf/confmodule
[06:24] <alexr> db_get passwd/username
[06:24] <Kamion> what postinst?
[06:24] <alexr> if [ -n "$RET" ]  ; then
[06:24] <alexr>   LOGIN=$RET
[06:24] <alexr> of my new package, to configure few things.
[06:24] <Kamion> well, your postinst won't be run - ubiquity expects all packages to already be installed
[06:24] <Kamion> you can drop extra hooks into /usr/lib/ubiquity/target-config/ though
[06:24] <alexr> So I need to install it on the live session first.
[06:24] <Surak> thanks kamion. time to lunch now.
[06:25] <alexr> Kamion: does /usr/lib/ubiquity/target-config/ has any files with comments?
[06:25] <alexr> How do I hook anything up?
[06:25] <alexr> Or any docs, maybe?...
[06:25] <Kamion> those'll be run on the live filesystem so you refer to the installed system using /target
[06:26] <Kamion> alexr: it's primarily there for casper so there are some examples in the ubiquity-casper package; it should already be installed on your live CD
[06:26] <alexr> Kamion: The examples are installed?
[06:26] <alexr> Kamion: I'll take a look, thanks!
[06:26] <Kamion> examples was a poor choice of wording; they're required for the operation of the installer, but you can use them as examples
[06:27] <Riddell> dholbach: did I see you making something depend on kde-icons-crystal the other day?
[06:27] <Kamion> note that the live filesystem's debconf database is not copied to the installed system at present, so if you need to fish stuff out of the installer's db, you need to do that before reboot
[06:28] <Kamion> I haven't decided whether I think that's a bug or not yet
[06:28] <alexr> Kamion: sounds good, I'll try.
[06:28] <alexr> Kamion: I have a beta lice cd now, and it says espresso.
[06:29] <Kamion> should probably be saved at least for debug purposes
[06:29] <alexr> Is espresso -> ubiquity just the name change?
[06:29] <Kamion> alexr: it'll be /usr/lib/espresso/target-config/ then; we renamed it after beta
[06:29] <alexr> Yeah, I get it.
[06:29] <alexr> :-)
[06:29] <Kamion> we'll be releasing a second beta tomorrow, because the beta was a bit buggered
[06:29] <alexr> Nice!
[06:29] <Riddell> dholbach: yes, tango-icon-theme does, why is that?
[06:29] <Kamion> you probably want to fetch a daily live CD
[06:29] <elmo> mvo_: ping?
[06:29] <alexr> Kamion: thanks a lot for your help!
[06:29] <Kamion> np
[06:29] <mvo_> elmo: pong?
[06:30] <elmo> mvo_: any luck/ideas with the update-manager icon disappearance?
[06:30] <elmo> unrelated: does anyone know how I convince a partition that's in /etc/fstab to appear in nautilus?  someone at the office just upgraded to dapper and their /windows partition is no longer available in nautlius
[06:30] <nomed> Riddell: as i reported that bug ..
[06:31] <mvo_> elmo: not yet, sorry. it is still not available on your system? does it come up when you run apt-get update?
[06:31] <nomed> i just suggested to add kde-icons-crystal because tango Inherits it
[06:31] <nomed> but not as depends entry .. 
[06:32] <elmo> mvo: nope.  anyway, it's not mega urgent.  should I just file a bug?  mostly wanted to confirm it wasn't PEBKAC
[06:32] <mvo_> elmo: unrelated, I merged the apt-ftparchive stuff from aj, it has a NEWS.Debian note that the format changed and will give a useful error message - do you think that is enough to make people happy? 
[06:32] <mvo_> elmo: please file a bug then
[06:32] <Kamion> mvo_: format changed how?
[06:33] <pitti> elmo: many users complained about seeing partitions on their desktop which aren't in /media, so I configured hal to not show them by default
[06:33] <pitti> elmo: the easy way is to mount it below /media
[06:33] <pitti> elmo: the more complicated one is to adapt the hal policy for this drive
[06:33] <pitti> elmo: if you are interested in the latter, I can create a hal fdi snippet for you
[06:33] <elmo> pitti: ok, super thanks
[06:34] <elmo> pitti: nah, I'll just move it to /media, that's fine
[06:34] <mvo_> Kamion: the format of the db in apt-ftparchive changed from DB_HASH to DB_BTREE
[06:34] <pitti> this was highly controversial, we just need to do something that isn't too evil by default
[06:34] <elmo> pitti: it's a little undiscoverable is my only concern for people updating from breezy -> dapper, but OTOH, I'm not sure if it's worth an entry in the release notes
[06:34] <Riddell> nomed: yes, it's only a Suggests, not a depends
[06:34] <Kamion> mvo_: ah, ok, doesn't affect me then
[06:34] <Riddell> nomed: but kde-icons-crystal has everaldo's theme, crystalsvg itself is from kdelibs
[06:34] <pitti> elmo: gnome upstream removed the configurability of this in the last minutes before the 2.14 release :(
[06:35] <elmo> mvo_: fine by me
[06:35] <pitti> (yay rigid freeze processes)
[06:36] <nomed> Riddell: so probaly kde-icon-theme shouldn't be in Suggests
[06:36] <Kamion> anyone else tested today's Ubuntu/Kubuntu live CD installation yet? Ubuntu/i386 is working fine for me
[06:36] <nomed> it's been my mistake reporting the bug
[06:37] <pitti> Kamion: is today's of particular interest, i. e. is it a flight candidate? I can download and test powerpc and/or amd64 if necessary
[06:37] <Riddell> nomed: I've reported another bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tango-icon-theme/+bug/41613
[06:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41613 in tango-icon-theme "Suggests kde-icons-crystal" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[06:39] <Kamion> pitti: beta2 candidate
[06:40] <doko> Diziet: ping
[06:40] <Kamion> pitti: (just the live CD, no need to particularly test the install CD)
[06:40] <Kamion> ta
[06:40] <pitti> will take a while, though (rsync bandwidth sucks)
[06:41] <trappist> it looks like cups 1.2 client software has trouble sending attributes-natural-language in a way that's breaking compatibility with cups 1.1 server
[06:41] <trappist> in bug 41593
[06:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41593 in cupsys "Bad Request generated printing to remote CUPS server" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41593
[06:42] <pitti> trappist: ah, thanks for tracking that down
[06:42] <trappist> that was known?
[06:42] <pitti> trappist: that should be forwarded as an STR to upstream
[06:42] <pitti> trappist: well, I just read your bug report
[06:42] <trappist> ah :)
[06:42] <pitti> but I need to do some non-cups stuff for a while now
[06:42] <glatzor> hi mvo_:  would it not be suffcient if we would realize the synaptic fetch window before you obtain the _gc? if we could show the window later it would be centered on the parent. currently it is centered and shown before it contains any text.
[06:42] <MrFaber> BenC: you there?
[06:42] <trappist> pitti: I'll send something upstream
[06:42] <pitti> trappist: that would be great!
[06:43] <BenC> MrFaber: yeah
[06:43] <MrFaber> hi BenC thanks
[06:44] <MrFaber> BenC: I have posted a bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/36014 . It only happens with 686 version with kernel 20 kernel but with kernel 21 it happens with both versions
[06:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36014 in linux-source-2.6.15 "kernel 686 can't scale cpu frequency" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[06:44] <dholbach> Riddell: merely suggest
[06:44] <dholbach> Riddell: as tango *can* fall back to crystal
[06:44] <BenC> mroth: ok, I'll check on it
[06:44] <glatzor> mvo_: do you think that it is sufficient to be a male geriatic student nurse to take part in the google summer of code? :)
[06:45] <MrFaber> BenC: Should I post another bug report or anyhting else?
[06:45] <elmo> pitti: that didn't seem to work - would I need to log in and out for it to take effect?
[06:45] <Riddell> dholbach: yeah, but wrong crystal
[06:45] <BenC> MrFaber: no, just append any info to the existing one
[06:45] <MrFaber> ok, thx
[06:45] <dholbach> Riddell: uh?
[06:46] <Riddell> dholbach: see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tango-icon-theme/+bug/41613
[06:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41613 in tango-icon-theme "Suggests kde-icons-crystal" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[06:46] <pitti> elmo: yes; killall gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus might work, too
[06:46] <dholbach> Riddell: thanks - will take care of it.
[06:46] <elmo> pitti: ok, cool,l thanks
[06:47] <bddebian> Ack, I hate packages that just have a debian dir and a tarball :-(
[06:47] <pitti> bddebian: for any particular reason?
[06:47] <bddebian> pitti: Quick and dirty patches are a PITA :-)
[06:48] <pitti> bddebian: well, quick and dirty in-line patching and immediately trying the results is very nice OTOH :)
[06:48] <pitti> without ever breaking the source package
[06:48] <bddebian> pitti: ??
[06:48] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock.  Done your homework first? ;-P
[06:48] <pitti> bddebian: you can hack around in the build-tree, do autoconf magic, whatever, it won't break the source
[06:49] <bddebian> pitti: Aye but the package has no current patch system and I just wanted to in-line the changes since it's gonna come down in Debian later
[06:50] <pitti> bddebian: huh? there is a build-tree-based package with no patch system?
[06:50] <pitti> which package are we talking about?
[06:50] <bddebian> fwbuilder
[06:51] <pitti> bddebian: it's dbs, so just mkdir debian/patches should work
[06:52] <pitti> bddebian: dbs-edit-patch is your friend
[06:52] <Riddell> Kamion: another confirmation of i386 kubuntu live beta 2 candidate CD working
[06:52] <bddebian> I'm tempted to just reject the bug.  It's just a typo
[06:52] <Riddell> from Lure 
[06:52] <bddebian> Not worth my time :-(
[06:52] <pitti> bddebian: file it to Debian and set it to low prio then
[06:52] <trappist> pitti: STR #1605 - is that not set up as a bug system (to link to) in malone?
[06:53] <pitti> trappist: not yet unfortunately; can you please just do a LP bug followup with the URL?
[06:53] <bddebian> pitti: OK, thx
[06:53] <trappist> yep
[06:54] <darius_> Is there a current/known bug with Dapper beta idling at high CPU consumption?
[06:54] <darius_> I've been idling with very high load averages since install Dapper on my HP laptop
[06:55] <Diziet> I've got Xeno's progress bar here.
[06:55] <Diziet> Err, Zeno.
[06:55] <Diziet> I've been doing too much Xen.
[06:55] <darius_> but I don't know how to analyze the problem to produce a useful bug report
[06:56] <mdke> darius_, use "top" to see which process is taking up the cpu, then file a bug?
[06:56] <Diziet> Is it know that the daily livecd's installer crashes just when you tell it to restart ? :-)
[06:57] <darius_> mdke: no process is claiming the cpu usage
[06:58] <Diziet> I have to copy-type the URL from the dialogue box !
[07:00] <Robot101> Diziet: did they show any signs of having fixed or responded to the broken network back-end checksum offloading flags?
[07:05] <Diziet> Robot101: I've not heard anything but it's been a while since I caught up on the xen-devel list.
[07:10] <ogra> Kamion, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-April/001353.html please see the last bulletpoint, can we manage that alone or should we leave the decision to the CC ?
[07:10] <Diziet> OMG.  The dapper beta's partition discoverer has dug into my LVM system to find the volumes belonging to frozen Xen images ...
[07:11] <jdub> Diziet: NO ONE IS SAFE
[07:12] <Diziet> You may remember me having to reinstall my laptop at UBZ because Breezy had found my suspended fs's and replayed the journal, and then when I resumed it the journal got replayed again.
[07:12] <FunnyLookinHat> On latest updates:
[07:12] <FunnyLookinHat> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/xserver-xorg_7.0.0-0ubuntu31_i386.deb: subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 2
[07:12] <Diziet> But this is much worse.
[07:13] <ogra> FunnyLookinHat, topic
[07:17] <bddebian> Ah, that xorg bug if fscking my kubuntu install :'-(
[07:17] <sivang> re
[07:18] <Kamion> Diziet: not heard of a crash on reboot before
[07:19] <Kamion> I'll make the URL bit selectable
[07:20] <Diziet> Kamion: thanks.  You see no doubt that I've reported the crash too.
[07:21] <Diziet> Also, now I've reported that volume management bug which is going to really bite me badly now.  If I can't install without it trashing other stuff on the machine without even asking I'm going to have serious trouble testing it !
[07:21] <Diziet> Maybe I should encrypt my LVM setup to defend it against new dapper installs :-).
[07:22] <bddebian> heh
[07:34] <sivang> bddebian: in what way is Xorg broken?
[07:35] <ogra> bddebian, and why did you break it
[07:35] <bddebian> sivang: post inst borkage I think
[07:35] <bddebian> ogra: For fun? :-)
[07:35] <ogra> ah, i knew you were bored about all this scilab rebuilds
[07:36] <bddebian> ogra: No, that's just my stupidity :-(
[07:36] <bddebian> Ohh, a kubuntu splash screen, I'm getting there
[07:36] <sivang> ogra: can't be that he broke it :)
[07:36] <sivang> I don't believe it
[07:37] <ogra> sivang, but you seem to think he knows why its broken :P
[07:37] <bddebian> Hmm, dunno if I like the login screen for kubuntu
[07:37] <sivang> /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/config: line 973: syntax error near unexpected token `)'
[07:37] <sivang> bddebian: is that what you get?
[07:37] <sivang> ogra: :)
[07:38] <ogra> sivang, topic :)+
[07:38] <Mithrandir> sivang: already fixed.
[07:38] <sivang> Mithrandir: cool, /me hugs
[07:39] <bddebian> Hey, what's with Gnome still coming up.. Hmm
[07:42] <sivang> nice,
[07:42] <sivang> my thinkpad buttons stopped working
[07:42] <sivang> (vol up/down)
[07:58] <pitti> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/ has fresh langpacks; can you please test the KDE ones?
[07:58] <pitti> Riddell: this is the first time we include KDE translations from Rosetta
[07:58] <pitti> carlos: ^ can you test the Spanish ones?
[08:04] <AnsiC> hello
[08:05] <AnsiC> source /home/user/VARIABLES/directories
[08:05] <AnsiC> mkdir -p $BINUTILS_BD && cd $BINUTILS_BD
[08:05] <AnsiC> $BINUTILS_SD/configure --prefix=/usr --disable-nls
[08:05] <AnsiC> make configure-host && make LDFLAGS=-all-static 
[08:05] <AnsiC> i want install all into /home/user/new_root
[08:05] <AnsiC> for use binutils into chroot enviroment
[08:05] <AnsiC> i must write: make install_root=/home/user/new_root ?
[08:05] <AnsiC> or
[08:06] <AnsiC> make install install_root=/home/user/new_root ?
[08:06] <Kamion> Diziet: I didn't expect it to be able to get at LVM at all; it's not supposed to support LVM ...
[08:07] <Kamion> #41619 is a regression from beta though, whoops
[08:08] <LaserJock> Kamion: are you talking about ubiquity?
[08:13] <Kamion> LaserJock: yes
[08:14] <LaserJock> Kamion: so it designed to not work with LVM? I tryed to install from the Beta livecd but the partitioning was a beast
[08:15] <Kamion> LaserJock: yes, we have enough trouble making it work for everything else without trying to make it work for LVM in the dapper timeframe as well
[08:16] <Kamion> the general structure of the partitioner is unfortunately about the best we can do for dapper now, but there's plenty of scope for bug fixes
[08:18] <LaserJock> Kamion: is that noted somewhere? It might be nice to have a wiki page that does a compare/contrast of the 2 installers that is linked to the download page
[08:19] <LaserJock> Kamion: In this case I don't think "graphical" vs "text-based" really describes the differences :-)
[08:20] <Kamion> LaserJock: it's somewhere in the specifications, but yes, we should draw up better documentation pre-dapper
[08:22] <Kamion> am going to have to rebuild unfortunately
[08:22] <LaserJock> Kamion: btw, the livecd rocks
[08:22] <pitti> oh, ok, then I'll wait
[08:22] <Kamion> but go ahead anyway, it'll be a while and the results will probably be mostly good enough
[08:22] <Kamion> pitti: no, don't wait :)
[08:23] <pitti> Kamion: shall I try a reiserfs installation this time?
[08:23] <Kamion> changes will be roughly (a) remove libreiserfs0.3-0 (b) fix reboot step (c) fix crash in KDE partitioner if I can
[08:23] <Kamion> pitti: if you do 'apt-get --purge remove libreiserfs0.3-0' first, sure
[08:23] <Kamion> it'll remove ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-base too
[08:23] <pitti> right, that's what I had in mind
[08:24] <pitti> oh, and when I try the amd64 install, I will install to /dev/hdc2 to finally check this grub install bug again
[08:25] <pitti> is there any KDE user around here who would be willing to test new language packs?
[08:25] <Kamion> shame I have to rebuild though, today's images were looking golden :/
[08:26] <Kamion> the decision to add a crash handler was the right one, even though it feels like admitting defeat; today's bug reports have been an order of magnitude better than previous ones
[08:27] <pitti> Kamion: enabling verbose logging by default should help, too, I guess?
[08:27] <pitti> the ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 trick was pretty non-obvious
[08:28] <Kamion> pitti: it's only a little more verbose now; I can't turn it all the way on because it's inconveniently hard to stop debconf logging the password in its debug mode
[08:28] <Kamion> so I can't get debconf debugging, which was really the most useful
[08:28] <Kamion> but better than nothing
[08:31] <pitti> wow, ubiquity took an enormous amount of time to start up, but maybe that's just me
[08:32] <pitti> Kamion: oh, btw, do you use Rosetta translations for ubiquity now? I'd like to complete the German translation
[08:32] <Kamion> pitti: yeah, although sometimes it requires adding translations to the regular installer too
[08:33] <Kamion> (but that's really a feature)
[08:33] <pitti> Kamion: enjoy!
[09:00] <carlos> pitti: Please, wait until tomorrow's export to do a new language packs upload 
[09:00] <pitti> ouch
[09:01] <carlos> you will get more than 100 new translation domains 
[09:01] <pitti> carlos: ok, fine for me
[09:01] <poningru> I wanted to write a spec on the wiki for easyencryption but it wont let me, what can I do?
[09:03] <poningru> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easy-encryption
[09:04] <ogra> poningru, #launchpad
[09:04] <poningru> oh sorry
[09:08] <bddebian> w00t, I have KDEage
[09:09] <ogra> bddebian, kde age ? below 15 ?
[09:10] <Treenaks> ogra: hey, that's remarkable close too gentoo-age ;)
[09:10] <ogra> lol
[09:13] <bddebian> bah :-)
[09:19] <crimsun> should I be addressing universe/multiverse uploads being dropped silently in here or in #launchpad?
[09:21] <pitti> crimsun: cprov is the man to talk to
[09:21] <pitti> crimsun: so, #launchpad probably
[09:21] <crimsun> pitti: thanks
[09:28] <pitti> typo even (d'oh)
[09:28] <ivoks> hello
[09:28] <pitti> hi ivoks 
[09:28] <ivoks> pitti: i saw one package with 1> /dev/bull :)
[09:28] <ivoks> :)
[09:29] <pitti> hi dhugbach!
[09:29] <_ion> Hehe.
[09:29] <bddebian> hehe
[09:30] <ivoks> pitti: what do you say about idea for cups browsing?
[09:30] <pitti> ivoks: sounds pretty good actuall
[09:30] <pitti> y
[09:31] <pitti> ivoks: however, "Browsing on" still has to be enabled for exporting printers IIRC
[09:31] <ivoks> right
[09:31] <pitti> ivoks: but I'd be fine with /usr/share/cups/enable_sharing as an enable_browsing counterpart
[09:31] <pitti> and adding that to gnome-cups-manager
[09:31] <pitti> patches appreciated, though, ENOTIME :/
[09:31] <ivoks> :)
[09:31] <pitti> I need to catch up with some non-printing stuff now
[09:32] <ivoks> ok, i'll try to manage something by the end of the day/week :)
[09:32] <pitti> cool :)
[09:32] <pitti> ivoks: the good thing is that ports.conf is already separated, so we don't need to hack the main conffile
[09:32] <ivoks> right
[09:33] <ivoks> my solution was in that direction, so we don't have to change anything
[09:33] <ivoks> except needed
[09:41] <pitti> doko: you set bug 39604 to 'in progress' - do you have any patch pending for that?
[09:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39604 in gnome-cups-manager "gnome-cups-add can take a long time to start up, with no user feedback" [Minor,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39604
[09:42] <pitti> Kamion: ppc ubiquity installation success (on reiserfs with libreiserfs purged, no network, German locale)
[09:48] <ivoks> pitti: what do you say enable_sharing triggers enable_browsing?
[09:49] <ivoks> better not...
[09:49] <ivoks> :)
[09:49] <pitti> ivoks: I didn't really verify that Browsing must be on for exports to work; if that is really the case, that seems logical
[09:49] <ivoks> it must be
[09:50] <ivoks> but this isn't logical (restarting cups twice)
[09:50] <Mithrandir> pitti: do we have any reports on broken cups/gs/hpijs along the lines of "won't print anything except garbage"?
[09:50] <Mithrandir> pitti: (my printer is an hp lj1100a)
[09:51] <ivoks> 1100? isn't that winprinter?
[09:51] <Mithrandir> no, PCL
[09:51] <pitti> Mithrandir: with hplip?
[09:52] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'm not sure of the distinction between hpijs and hplip; there's an hpijs process, no hplip processes
[09:52] <pitti> Mithrandir: not against cupsys at least
[09:52] <Mithrandir> pitti: what's a good place to start debugging?
[09:52] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, I neither know hplip nor hpijs, I don't have such a printer
[09:53] <Mithrandir> heh, ok
[09:53] <Mithrandir> this used to work some time ago, so it's a regression
[09:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: if it's just garbabe, then I'd start with checking mime type detection
[09:53] <Mithrandir> PCL looks pretty much like garbage, though
[09:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: you should set LogLevel to 'debug' in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf
[09:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: and tail -f /var/log/cups/error_log
[09:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: this should log mime types and such
[09:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: does printing a test page in the cups web interface do the same?
[09:55] <doko> pitti: yes, an ugly one
[09:55] <Mithrandir> pitti: let's see about the test page.
[09:56] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, same kind of garbage too.
[09:56] <pitti> doko: busy cursor, or a dialog?
[09:57] <pitti> Mithrandir: so it either uses the wrong printer driver or it tries to print PCL as ASCII, or so?
[09:58] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, and it's certainly not postscript what it's printing so I suspect the latter
[10:00] <pitti> hm, I really have no clue about hp{lip,ijs} - doko, do you know how it works in principle?
[10:03] <doko> pitti: neither. a progress bar didn't work (the loading of the printer list uses gtk/glade and cannot run in a separate thread, cursor: don't know ... nothing is displayed. so it's just a box saying "lReading ..."
[10:07] <doko> Mithrandir: does the ljet4 driver work?
[10:10] <Mithrandir> doko: let's see.
[10:11] <Mithrandir> doko: nope
[10:12] <doko> Mithrandir: would be interesting to see what breezy did use
[10:12] <Mithrandir> doko: as in what it output?
[10:13] <doko> Mithrandir: yes, if it works at all, and with which driver
[10:14] <Mithrandir> doko: it worked fine and with the ljet4 driver, iirc.
[10:16] <Mithrandir> hmm
[10:16] <Mithrandir> I wonder if: [ 1936.083230]  DMA write timed out
[10:16] <Mithrandir> has anything to do with it.
[10:17] <doko> parallel port?
[10:21] <Mithrandir> mhm
[10:25] <Mithrandir> ok, turning off ECP fixed it.
[10:27] <doko> Mithrandir: but with the hplip driver?
[10:28] <Mithrandir> that was with ljet4, trying with hpijs now
[10:29] <Mithrandir> yup, worked too
[10:30] <doko> can you detect if ECP is turned on in the BIOS?
[10:30] <Mithrandir> well, the kernel said Apr 26 21:47:24 xoog kernel: [  189.402623]  lp0: ECP mode
[10:30] <Mithrandir> so yes, the kernel can, at least
[10:37] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: could be a bit related to bug 29050
[10:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29050 in cupsys "cupsys does not automatically detect parallel printer" [Major,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29050
[10:37] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: it appears to fix itself when I turned off ECP though
[10:37] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: I asked the bugs which indicate parallel printer problems about checking for ECP/EPP
[10:37] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: if that reveals some consistency, I'll bug upstream about it
[10:38] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: from the bug reports it seems that this worked in breezy, though, so it smells like a cups regression
[10:38] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: thanks for hunting it
[10:39] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: I could always try to run a breezy kernel on this machine to see if it fixes it.  If so, it's mostly a smogb.
[10:40] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: right, and/or the breezy cups debs on dapper
[10:40] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: they work, if you install libgnutls11
[10:40] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: that would rock!
[10:40] <pitti_live> I'm rebooting now, brb
[10:42] <dholbach> see you
[10:48] <pitti> Kamion: amd64/live ubiquity install worked fine, too
[11:08] <Kamion> pitti: thanks
[11:08] <Kamion> pitti: Kihap?
[11:09] <pitti> Kamion: it's the 'battle yell' in Korean (for Taekwondo)
[11:09] <Kamion> ah, karate equivalent = kiai
[11:10] <pitti> ah, nice to know :)
[11:20] <Seveas> pitti, re bug 41659: kamion just really wants you to run memtest ;)
[11:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41659 in ubiquity "memtest entry grows longer and longer in installed grub menu.lst" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41659
[11:21] <Kamion> heh, a fun side-effect of the use of os-prober in grub-installer
[11:21] <Kamion> I think we have another bug filed along those lines somewhere, although the symptoms are different
[11:22] <pitti> Seveas: no, it's a s3kr3t way of tracing and logging all my installation attempts :)
[11:23] <Seveas> Colin "Big Brother" Watson 
[11:24] <Kamion> is Luka Renko here?
[11:24] <Seveas> Lure, ?
[11:24] <Kamion> Lure: please be more careful about duplicating bugs; 41618 and 41619 aren't
[11:24] <Kamion> ah, I see you already unduplicated it, never mind
[11:24] <Lure> Kamion: yep, seen immediately and removed duplicate mark
[11:30] <Kamion> cool, thanks