| mdke | alright, done | 12:04 |
|---|---|---|
| mdke | LaserJock, do you need anything else? | 12:06 |
| LaserJock | well not at the moment, but lifeless is holding my hand through some thought experiments | 12:06 |
| mdke | great | 12:06 |
| LaserJock | I think we will want to move a directory into /srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/ perhaps | 12:07 |
| mdke | doesn't it do ssh? | 12:07 |
| LaserJock | yes, but I was wanting it to be publically available for download, but maybe we just want to have the tarball checkout for that | 12:08 |
| mdke | oh yeah, doh | 12:08 |
| mdke | let's do that now, shall we? | 12:08 |
| LaserJock | mdke: what do you think, should I put the current svn repo on LP? | 12:32 |
| mdke | LaserJock, no, I think we should play around on doc.u.c first | 12:32 |
| LaserJock | ok | 12:32 |
| mdke | you? | 12:32 |
| LaserJock | that's fine, although it looks like a nice option | 12:33 |
| mdke | all these branches flying around scare me | 12:33 |
| LaserJock | but to be honest I don't know if we are ready for bzr yet | 12:33 |
| LaserJock | mdke: well, it would only be one branch | 12:34 |
| LaserJock | mdke: ok, so if you mv /home/laserjock/public_html/ubuntu-doc-bzr into /srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/bzr/ and chown it to bzrgrp | 12:36 |
| mdke | you want it as bzr/ubuntu-doc-bzr? | 12:37 |
| LaserJock | hmm, I guess just bzr/ would work | 12:38 |
| mdke | ok | 12:39 |
| mdke | what owner? | 12:41 |
| LaserJock | umm, I guess <you>:bzrgrp | 12:41 |
| mdke | ok, i did ubuntu-doc | 12:42 |
| LaserJock | is ubuntu-doc a part of hte bzrgrp group? | 12:42 |
| LaserJock | or will that matter? | 12:43 |
| mdke | no, and no (I think) | 12:43 |
| LaserJock | as you can tell, I'm no sys admin | 12:43 |
| mdke | me neither | 12:43 |
| LaserJock | blind leading the blind? | 12:43 |
| LaserJock | ok, let me see if I can checkout and send changes | 12:44 |
| mdke | you'll want permission, hang onm | 12:45 |
| mdke | ok | 12:47 |
| mdke | is 775 the right permissions? | 12:47 |
| LaserJock | looks good to me | 12:49 |
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| mdke | LaserJock, how's it going? | 01:47 |
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| mdke | -> bed | 02:04 |
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| LaserJock | mdke: just trying to resolve ssh key issues :( | 02:14 |
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| rob | hmm, how did you guys get the docteam coffee thing on the forums? | 02:52 |
| robotgeek | docteam cofee? | 02:53 |
| LaserJock | yeah, what? | 02:55 |
| rob | you know how the forum has a coffee thing on the side (based on how many posts you do I think) | 02:56 |
| rob | a few people here have that, how does one acquire that? | 02:57 |
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| LaserJock | rob: I think you have to make posts :-) | 02:57 |
| rob | heh, I just signed up an account on there! | 02:57 |
| rob | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=123836 | 02:58 |
| rob | look at the right hand side bits of each post | 02:58 |
| LaserJock | oh yeah, the ubuntu doc team bit | 03:02 |
| LaserJock | I don't have that :'( | 03:04 |
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| klepas | moin | 03:19 |
| klepas | heard you folks are after someone to do a bunch of covers | 03:19 |
| robotgeek | klepas: yes, for the desktop guides which are going be be available to be purchased in print | 03:20 |
| klepas | mhh | 03:21 |
| klepas | cool | 03:21 |
| robotgeek | also server and packageing guides | 03:21 |
| rob | deadline? | 03:21 |
| klepas | ja | 03:21 |
| rob | nothing has been set yet | 03:21 |
| klepas | well when do you guys need this by | 03:21 |
| klepas | latest | 03:21 |
| rob | we want to make all the translations available too, so it will take a while for that to get done | 03:22 |
| klepas | because i have my hands full in the immediate future, about a week | 03:22 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot here did a few things, maybe better to talk with him too? | 03:22 |
| klepas | SURE | 03:23 |
| klepas | ack, caps | 03:23 |
| rob | robotgeek, I gave him a couple of links, but yes madpilot was our guy who did that :) | 03:23 |
| rob | klepas, there are also some templates on the lulu.com website (which isn't working for me otherwise I'd get you the links) | 03:24 |
| rob | for size etc | 03:24 |
| rob | we are looking at crown quarto for the size | 03:24 |
| rob | klepas, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-April/001180.html | 03:26 |
| rob | email from matt | 03:26 |
| klepas | checking it out now | 03:40 |
| klepas | could i get some ratios/height-width measurements? | 03:41 |
| klepas | for the cover | 03:41 |
| LaserJock | 7.44" x 9.68" is crown quarto | 03:44 |
| LaserJock | or 18.9cm x 24.6cm if you are so inclined :-) | 03:45 |
| klepas | thanks | 03:45 |
| klepas | i've got an idea for this | 03:46 |
| klepas | though it would follow some of the ideas that the GDM theme uses | 03:46 |
| klepas | and is generally appreciated higher up for official things | 03:46 |
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| KingBahamut | evening all | 06:28 |
| LaserJock_away | mdke: got bzr to work, it's sorta slow, but it works | 06:33 |
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| Madpilot | Burgundavia_, ping | 07:01 |
| Burgundavia_ | Madpilot: pong | 07:04 |
| Madpilot | how's things in OK? | 07:04 |
| Madpilot | which centre of culture are you in tonight? | 07:04 |
| Burgundavia_ | Guthrie, just north of OK city | 07:04 |
| Burgundavia_ | was in Woodward today | 07:05 |
| Madpilot | how are the demos going? | 07:05 |
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| Madpilot | http://www.warbard.ca/temp/Kubuntu_Lulu_cover_draft_CQsize.png <-- Kubuntu DG cover in white/pale blue, instead of dark blue/light blue | 07:13 |
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| Madpilot | evening robitaille | 07:17 |
| robitaille | Hi Madpilot | 07:17 |
| robitaille | I'm reading the blog of the latest Canonical employee: http://sfllaw.livejournal.com/ | 07:18 |
| Madpilot | "Shaving? Do I have to shave if I work from home?" - hehe | 07:22 |
| crimsun | ah yes, he's in Montreal | 07:23 |
| robitaille | it will be nice to finally have a full-time person doing QA stuff | 07:24 |
| Madpilot | fewer complaints from the bughunters when you ping one of your older bugs to see if a known fix has been committed yet - maybe... :P | 07:25 |
| Madpilot | http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1759298,00.html | 07:40 |
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| LaserJock_away | Madpilot: there was someone from -artwork here earlier | 07:58 |
| LaserJock_away | Madpilot: klepas was the nick. They were going to do some covers | 07:59 |
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| Madpilot | interesting - thanks, LaserJock_away | 08:01 |
| Madpilot | klepas, ping? | 08:01 |
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| Burgundavia_ | Madpilot: that tank link is insane | 08:07 |
| Madpilot | cool, isn't it? | 08:07 |
| Madpilot | hmm, there's no #ubuntu-art channel... | 08:07 |
| Burgundavia_ | artwork | 08:07 |
| Burgundavia_ | we should probably get -art to redirect to -artwork | 08:07 |
| Burgundavia_ | anyway, I need to sleep, is 1am here | 08:08 |
| Madpilot | you two hours ahead of us? Thought it was just 1hr? | 08:08 |
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| klepas | Madpilot: pong | 08:48 |
| klepas | Madpilot: i've got to run, going home from the office. | 08:54 |
| klepas | i shall be on later this evening/today | 08:55 |
| klepas | give it a few hours | 08:55 |
| klepas | :) | 08:55 |
| mdke | Madpilot, very nice | 09:06 |
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| mdke | Madpilot, I think we can remove the document-specific text from the covers | 09:28 |
| mdke | lulu can get it from the book title, that way you don't have to make a new cover for every book/translation | 09:29 |
| mdke | but we'd need to check that it will put it in the right place | 09:30 |
| mdke | afk | 09:40 |
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| Madpilot | mdke, was AFK - shutting down now - I'll change the covers tomorrow, if Lulu can do the titles at that end | 09:45 |
| Madpilot | later, all | 09:45 |
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| mdke | evening all | 06:14 |
| jsgotangco | hi | 06:22 |
| jsgotangco | its already dawn here heh | 06:22 |
| mdke | doing an all nighter? | 06:23 |
| jsgotangco | nahh its only 12:30am just closing some xorg bugs | 06:24 |
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| LaserJock | hi mdke | 06:48 |
| mdke | hi LaserJock | 06:50 |
| jjesse | afternoon all :) | 06:50 |
| LaserJock | I got my stupid ssh key issue figured out | 06:51 |
| mdke | ssh keys are the bomb | 06:51 |
| LaserJock | so I was able to do a bzr checkout, added a file, and did a commit | 06:51 |
| LaserJock | and it worked like svn | 06:51 |
| mdke | it seems that Lulu don't support multiple licenses... I'm trying to convince them to add it | 06:52 |
| LaserJock | it takes a loong time to do the checkout, but once you do you have the entire repo history locally, and it doesn't seem to take up much space | 06:53 |
| mdke | that sounds like svn | 06:53 |
| LaserJock | well, with svn you have to connect to the server to get the history | 06:56 |
| mdke | ah, the entire repo history eh? Is that useful? | 06:57 |
| LaserJock | yeah, it means you can work locally for basically everythin | 06:58 |
| LaserJock | it means you only connect to the server when you are commiting, more or less | 06:59 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock: yeah the first checkout is really sllloooowwwwww | 06:59 |
| mdke | isn't that the case with svn too? | 06:59 |
| mdke | I onyl connect to the server when committing in svn, too | 06:59 |
| LaserJock | no, if you want to look at a particular revision perhaps | 06:59 |
| LaserJock | you have to talk to the server with svn | 06:59 |
| LaserJock | if you don't have it cached | 06:59 |
| mdke | yes, but I don't think I've ever wanted to do that | 06:59 |
| LaserJock | right | 07:00 |
| mdke | except for looking at commit mail, I guess | 07:00 |
| LaserJock | an advantage for non-doc members (ie. branch not checkout) is they can commit locally | 07:01 |
| LaserJock | so they can have revision control while they are working | 07:01 |
| LaserJock | and then send a diff or push their branch when they are done | 07:01 |
| mdke | right | 07:02 |
| LaserJock | at this point my issues with bzr are the speed | 07:02 |
| jeffsch | my understanding is that you work locally, making all the commits you want, then | 07:02 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: unless you do a bzr checkout (new in 0.8) | 07:02 |
| jeffsch | when you are ready, you publish it all on a webserver somewhere | 07:02 |
| jeffsch | all the commits are to your local copy though, right? | 07:03 |
| LaserJock | no | 07:03 |
| LaserJock | not with checkout | 07:03 |
| jeffsch | ok, but can you still work locally and still keep version control? | 07:03 |
| jjesse | is bzr checkout just like svn checkout? if so why the need to swtich? | 07:03 |
| mdke | but it's coooooool | 07:04 |
| LaserJock | my thought was to perhaps have docteam members use bzr checkout (which would be more or less like svn co) | 07:04 |
| jjesse | mdke: cooool doesn't mean we have to change :) | 07:04 |
| LaserJock | but non-docteam members would use the "traditional" bzr approach and push their changes to a server | 07:05 |
| mdke | no, but cooooooool does | 07:05 |
| LaserJock | that then the docteam members can merge and commit | 07:05 |
| mdke | what's wrong with the speed? | 07:05 |
| LaserJock | honestly, my current opinion is that we should test and watch bzr for edgy but not move (if ever) until edgy+1 | 07:06 |
| mdke | we can keep playing | 07:06 |
| jeffsch | if i do a bzr checkout, can i work on say, the desktopguide while not connected to the net and still have revision control on the commits that | 07:06 |
| LaserJock | mdke: well bzr branch seems slow currently (I timed it 4 times slower than svn co) | 07:06 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: no, you would want bzr branch for that | 07:07 |
| jeffsch | i make to my local copy? | 07:07 |
| trappist | my opinion is that svn is how god intended us to work, and that if we move to bzr I'll grudgingly live with it | 07:07 |
| LaserJock | lol | 07:07 |
| mdke | haha | 07:07 |
| === mdke goes out | ||
| LaserJock | well, I'm no bzr diehard, I use it for packaging where I do all my work locally | 07:08 |
| jeffsch | ok, so i branch desktopguide, make commits offline, then push them to the bzr server on d.u.c? | 07:08 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: bzr checkout, branch our checkout locally, work on it offline, merge back in and commit when you are online again | 07:09 |
| LaserJock | a cool thing, IMO, with bzr is that all you need is the directory, we can distribute the repo as a tarball | 07:10 |
| LaserJock | people can download it and untar it and they have the whole repo, history and all | 07:10 |
| LaserJock | or you can use rsync | 07:10 |
| jeffsch | can we tarball our svn repos with the same results? | 07:12 |
| LaserJock | not sure | 07:12 |
| LaserJock | you would you do a checkout? | 07:12 |
| LaserJock | s/you/how/ | 07:13 |
| jeffsch | i think svn tracks everything in a .svn folder, one for each directory | 07:13 |
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| jeffsch | bzr does it similar, but with only on .bzr folder at the top of the hierarchy | 07:14 |
| LaserJock | yeah, but I'm not sure you can just untar it and then commit, I could be wrong | 07:14 |
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| jeffsch | yeah, there might be some machine-specific or other local-specific stuff in the .svn folder | 07:14 |
| LaserJock | since bzr isn't tied to a repo you just tell it where you want it to go | 07:15 |
| jeffsch | it's not tied to a repo if we use it in a distributed fashion | 07:16 |
| LaserJock | right | 07:16 |
| jeffsch | if we use it with a central repo on d.u.c. it will be different | 07:16 |
| LaserJock | so it seems to me right now, functionally, you get the best of both worlds with bzr | 07:16 |
| LaserJock | you can use svn-like checkout or the distributed branch | 07:16 |
| jeffsch | so only docteam members will have push rights to d.u.c, others must have us pull their changes from some public space | 07:17 |
| LaserJock | my issues right now are speed (maybe it isn't a problem, but it could be) and having to have non-docteam members have a place to publish branches | 07:17 |
| jeffsch | bzr can't import diffs from email? | 07:18 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: it can but that sort of defeats the purpose of being able to merge branches | 07:21 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock: the pqmbot takes care of that no? | 07:21 |
| LaserJock | jsgotangco: takes care of what? | 07:21 |
| jsgotangco | who to allow to merge/push | 07:22 |
| LaserJock | jsgotangco: yes, although we have done it for now with just giving doc-team members rw access to the repo | 07:23 |
| jsgotangco | ah right | 07:23 |
| LaserJock | I'm more concerned about the non-docteam members | 07:23 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock: they could always branch from our sources from svn, after all its public | 07:24 |
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| LaserJock | I'd like to have people email me "Heah laserjock, if got a cool new section for the packaging guide, my branch is at htttp://xyz.com/coolpatch" | 07:25 |
| LaserJock | then I can bzr merge http://xyz.com/coolpatch | 07:25 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 07:25 |
| jeffsch | LaserJock: what if you get 10 emails like that, and 4 of the merges conflict? | 07:25 |
| jsgotangco | i gotta sleep | 07:26 |
| LaserJock | bzr is smart | 07:26 |
| jsgotangco | good night | 07:26 |
| LaserJock | cya jsgotangco | 07:26 |
| jeffsch | not smart enough to choose my "can't" over someone elses "can not" | 07:27 |
| jeffsch | you still have to decide whether or not to keep the appostrophe version | 07:27 |
| LaserJock | sure | 07:27 |
| jeffsch | that's the kind of conflict I'm talking about | 07:27 |
| LaserJock | well, that will occur no matter what we do | 07:27 |
| jeffsch | in svn, conflict resolution is distributed | 07:28 |
| jeffsch | svn won't let you commit without resolving conflicts | 07:28 |
| jeffsch | in bzr, conflict resolution is centralized | 07:28 |
| jeffsch | the guy at the top must resolve all conflicts himself | 07:28 |
| LaserJock | ok, I gotta go. I'll be back in ~30 min. | 07:29 |
| LaserJock | I think we should test some of this out | 07:29 |
| jeffsch | definitely | 07:29 |
| dsas | is there a test bzr repo i can branch from? | 07:32 |
| jeffsch | yeah, there's one on docteam.ubuntu.com, but i don't know where exactly yet | 07:35 |
| jeffsch | ask LaserJock when he comes back, or mdke if he | 07:36 |
| jeffsch | 's around | 07:36 |
| jeffsch | oops | 07:36 |
| trappist | so what does bzr do with conflicts it can't resolve? | 07:40 |
| dsas | it makes two files iirc, one called BASE, one called HEAD. not sure what they do | 07:44 |
| jeffsch | trappist: http://bazaar-vcs.org/IntroductionToBzr#head-3c92313cdbc6d0b648fb742a98ada0d38e043ef7 | 07:45 |
| trappist | I do think I like svn's behavior better than that | 07:46 |
| trappist | to the extent that it's different | 07:47 |
| jeffsch | if bzr will allow us to create better docs faster and with fewer errors, then I'm all for it | 07:49 |
| jeffsch | otherwise, there's no point in switching | 07:49 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: I agree | 07:53 |
| LaserJock | dsas: the current URL to branch from is http://doc.ubuntu.com/bzr/ | 07:54 |
| dsas | LaserJock: thanks | 07:54 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: my interest was 2 things: | 07:54 |
| LaserJock | 1) possible splitting up the current svn trunk into branches (common, ubuntu, kubuntu, generic, etc.) so that people don't have to get the whole thing just to work on one doc | 07:55 |
| LaserJock | 2) making it easier for non-docteam members to contribute | 07:55 |
| LaserJock | and I'm currently not convinced of both | 07:55 |
| trappist | they both sound pretty great - I don't see why svn couldn't handle the first one though | 07:57 |
| LaserJock | I don't think that it was so much a matter of svn couldn't but maybe bzr would handle it better | 07:57 |
| LaserJock | I think bzr is still so much in development that I bet by the time we get to Edgy+1 it will be significantly faster and more stable | 07:59 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: do you need the url for pushing changes? | 08:01 |
| jeffsch | yeah... http://doc.ubuntu.com/bzr/ is not it? | 08:02 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: you can't push there I don't think | 08:02 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: I think you need sftp to publish | 08:02 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: or am I wrong | 08:03 |
| jeffsch | you need sftp to "bzr push sftp://blah.blah.com/whatever" | 08:03 |
| jeffsch | but you can also use rsync | 08:04 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: so you will need sftp://<username>@doc.ubuntu.com/srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/bzr/ I think | 08:06 |
| jeffsch | ok, thanks. I will try it later... kinda busy on something else right now | 08:06 |
| LaserJock | jeffsch: me too | 08:07 |
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| mdke | evening | 11:36 |
| LaserJock | hi mdke | 11:36 |
| mdke | how's it going? | 11:36 |
| LaserJock | pretty good, trying to get some research done today | 11:38 |
| mdke | ah, real life eh? | 11:42 |
| LaserJock | yeah, but I talked with jeffsch this morning about bzr and I got an upload in too. :-) | 11:43 |
| === mdke nods | ||
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