mdkealright, done12:04
mdkeLaserJock, do you need anything else?12:06
LaserJockwell not at the moment, but lifeless is holding my hand through some thought experiments12:06
LaserJockI think we will want to move a directory into /srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/ perhaps12:07
mdkedoesn't it do ssh?12:07
LaserJockyes, but I was wanting it to be publically available for download, but maybe we just want to have the tarball checkout for that12:08
mdkeoh yeah, doh12:08
mdkelet's do that now, shall we?12:08
LaserJockmdke: what do you think, should I put the current svn repo on LP?12:32
mdkeLaserJock, no, I think we should play around on doc.u.c first12:32
LaserJockthat's fine, although it looks like a nice option12:33
mdkeall these branches flying around scare me12:33
LaserJockbut to be honest I don't know if we are ready for bzr yet12:33
LaserJockmdke: well, it would only be one branch12:34
LaserJockmdke: ok, so if you mv /home/laserjock/public_html/ubuntu-doc-bzr into /srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/bzr/ and chown it to bzrgrp12:36
mdkeyou want it as bzr/ubuntu-doc-bzr?12:37
LaserJockhmm, I guess just bzr/ would work12:38
mdkewhat owner?12:41
LaserJockumm, I guess <you>:bzrgrp12:41
mdkeok, i did ubuntu-doc12:42
LaserJockis ubuntu-doc a part of hte bzrgrp group?12:42
LaserJockor will that matter?12:43
mdkeno, and no (I think)12:43
LaserJockas you can tell, I'm no sys admin12:43
mdkeme neither12:43
LaserJockblind leading the blind?12:43
LaserJockok, let me see if I can checkout and send changes12:44
mdkeyou'll want permission, hang onm12:45
mdkeis 775 the right permissions?12:47
LaserJocklooks good to me12:49
=== frank23 [n=frank@modemcable135.248-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc
mdkeLaserJock, how's it going?01:47
=== Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-doc
mdke-> bed02:04
=== _sara [n=sara@pool-70-104-64-205.pskn.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc
LaserJockmdke: just trying to resolve ssh key issues :(02:14
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-140-241.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
robhmm, how did you guys get the docteam coffee thing on the forums?02:52
robotgeekdocteam cofee?02:53
LaserJockyeah, what?02:55
robyou know how the forum has a coffee thing on the side (based on how many posts you do I think)02:56
roba few people here have that, how does one acquire that?02:57
=== Burgundavia_ [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc
LaserJockrob: I think you have to make posts :-)02:57
robheh, I just signed up an account on there!02:57
roblook at the right hand side bits of each post02:58
LaserJockoh yeah, the ubuntu doc team bit03:02
LaserJockI don't have that :'(03:04
=== klepas [n=klepas@sponge.solutionsfirst.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc
klepasheard you folks are after someone to do a bunch of covers03:19
robotgeekklepas: yes, for the desktop guides which are going be be available to be purchased in print03:20
robotgeekalso server and packageing guides03:21
robnothing has been set yet03:21
klepaswell when do you guys need this by03:21
robwe want to make all the translations available too, so it will take a while for that to get done03:22
klepasbecause i have my hands full in the immediate future, about a week03:22
robotgeekMadpilot here did a few things, maybe better to talk with him too?03:22
klepasack, caps03:23
robrobotgeek, I gave him a couple of links, but yes madpilot was our guy who did that :)03:23
robklepas, there are also some templates on the lulu.com website (which isn't working for me otherwise I'd get you the links)03:24
robfor size etc03:24
robwe are looking at crown quarto for the size03:24
robklepas, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-April/001180.html03:26
robemail from matt03:26
klepaschecking it out now03:40
klepascould i get some ratios/height-width measurements?03:41
klepasfor the cover03:41
LaserJock7.44" x 9.68" is crown quarto03:44
LaserJockor 18.9cm x 24.6cm if you are so inclined :-)03:45
klepasi've got an idea for this03:46
klepasthough it would follow some of the ideas that the GDM theme uses03:46
klepasand is generally appreciated higher up for official things03:46
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-140-241.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== KingBahamut [n=bahamut@c-24-98-229-28.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
KingBahamutevening all06:28
LaserJock_awaymdke: got bzr to work, it's sorta slow, but it works06:33
=== Madpilot [n=brian@S0106000d88b9f3db.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
MadpilotBurgundavia_, ping07:01
Burgundavia_Madpilot: pong07:04
Madpilothow's things in OK?07:04
Madpilotwhich centre of culture are you in tonight?07:04
Burgundavia_Guthrie, just north of OK city07:04
Burgundavia_was in Woodward today07:05
Madpilothow are the demos going?07:05
=== bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc
Madpilothttp://www.warbard.ca/temp/Kubuntu_Lulu_cover_draft_CQsize.png <-- Kubuntu DG cover in white/pale blue, instead of dark blue/light blue07:13
=== robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc
Madpilotevening robitaille 07:17
robitailleHi Madpilot 07:17
robitailleI'm reading the blog of the latest Canonical employee:  http://sfllaw.livejournal.com/07:18
Madpilot"Shaving? Do I have to shave if I work from home?" - hehe07:22
crimsunah yes, he's in Montreal07:23
robitailleit will be nice to finally have a full-time person doing QA stuff07:24
Madpilotfewer complaints from the bughunters when you ping one of your older bugs to see if a known fix has been committed yet - maybe... :P07:25
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@] has joined #ubuntu-doc
LaserJock_awayMadpilot: there was someone from -artwork here earlier07:58
LaserJock_awayMadpilot: klepas was the nick. They were going to do some covers07:59
=== LaserJock_away goes away again
Madpilotinteresting - thanks, LaserJock_away 08:01
Madpilotklepas, ping?08:01
=== mpt_ [n=mpt@219-89-153-120.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
Burgundavia_Madpilot: that tank link is insane08:07
Madpilotcool, isn't it?08:07
Madpilothmm, there's no #ubuntu-art channel...08:07
Burgundavia_we should probably get -art to redirect to -artwork08:07
Burgundavia_anyway, I need to sleep, is 1am here08:08
Madpilotyou two hours ahead of us? Thought it was just 1hr?08:08
=== robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== mpt__ [n=mpt@219-89-137-20.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
klepasMadpilot: pong08:48
klepasMadpilot: i've got to run, going home from the office.08:54
klepasi shall be on later this evening/today08:55
klepasgive it a few hours08:55
mdkeMadpilot, very nice09:06
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-152-231.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== poningru [n=poningru@ip68-226-0-76.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
mdkeMadpilot, I think we can remove the document-specific text from the covers09:28
mdkelulu can get it from the book title, that way you don't have to make a new cover for every book/translation09:29
mdkebut we'd need to check that it will put it in the right place09:30
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc
Madpilotmdke, was AFK - shutting down now - I'll change the covers tomorrow, if Lulu can do the titles at that end09:45
Madpilotlater, all09:45
=== dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-154-19.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-154-19.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== mpt_ [n=mpt@219-89-154-19.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-153-137.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== dt-oz-gc [n=dt@sou-ts1-2600-143.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== dt-oz-gc [n=dt@sou-ts1-2600-143.tpgi.com.au] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Ciou]
=== dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== Kamping_Kaiser [n=kgoetz@ppp228-44.lns2.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-153-137.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-153-137.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== klepas [n=klepas@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== klepas [n=klepas@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== Burgundavia_ [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@mtngprs7.mtn.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc
mdkeevening all06:14
jsgotangcoits already dawn here heh06:22
mdkedoing an all nighter?06:23
jsgotangconahh its only 12:30am just closing some xorg bugs06:24
=== tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@] has joined #ubuntu-doc
LaserJockhi mdke 06:48
mdkehi LaserJock 06:50
jjesseafternoon all :)06:50
LaserJockI got my stupid ssh key issue figured out06:51
mdkessh keys are the bomb06:51
LaserJockso I was able to do a bzr checkout, added a file, and did a commit06:51
LaserJockand it worked like svn06:51
mdkeit seems that Lulu don't support multiple licenses... I'm trying to convince them to add it06:52
LaserJockit takes a loong time to do the checkout, but once you do you have the entire repo history locally, and it doesn't seem to take up much space06:53
mdkethat sounds like svn06:53
LaserJockwell, with svn you have to connect to the server to get the history06:56
mdkeah, the entire repo history eh? Is that useful?06:57
LaserJockyeah, it means you can work locally for basically everythin06:58
LaserJockit means you only connect to the server when you are commiting, more or less06:59
jsgotangcoLaserJock: yeah the first checkout is really sllloooowwwwww06:59
mdkeisn't that the case with svn too?06:59
mdkeI onyl connect to the server when committing in svn, too06:59
LaserJockno, if you want to look at a particular revision perhaps06:59
LaserJockyou have to talk to the server with svn06:59
LaserJockif you don't have it cached06:59
mdkeyes, but I don't think I've ever wanted to do that06:59
mdkeexcept for looking at commit mail, I guess07:00
LaserJockan advantage for non-doc members (ie. branch not checkout) is they can commit locally07:01
LaserJockso they can have revision control while they are working07:01
LaserJockand then send a diff or push their branch when they are done07:01
LaserJockat this point my issues with bzr are the speed07:02
jeffschmy understanding is that you work locally, making all the commits you want, then07:02
LaserJockjeffsch: unless you do a bzr checkout (new in 0.8)07:02
jeffschwhen you are ready, you publish it all on a webserver somewhere07:02
jeffschall the commits are to your local copy though, right?07:03
LaserJocknot with checkout07:03
jeffschok, but can you still work locally and still keep version control?07:03
jjesseis bzr checkout just like svn checkout?  if so why the need to swtich?07:03
mdkebut it's coooooool07:04
LaserJockmy thought was to perhaps have docteam members use bzr checkout (which would be more or less like svn co)07:04
jjessemdke: cooool doesn't mean we have to change :)07:04
LaserJockbut non-docteam members would use the "traditional" bzr approach and push their changes to a server07:05
mdkeno, but cooooooool does07:05
LaserJockthat then the docteam members can merge and commit07:05
mdkewhat's wrong with the speed?07:05
LaserJockhonestly, my current opinion is that we should test and watch bzr for edgy but not move (if ever) until edgy+107:06
mdkewe can keep playing07:06
jeffschif i do a bzr checkout, can i work on say, the desktopguide while not connected to the net and still have revision control on the commits that07:06
LaserJockmdke: well bzr branch seems slow currently (I timed it 4 times slower than svn co)07:06
LaserJockjeffsch: no, you would want bzr branch for that07:07
jeffschi make to my local copy?07:07
trappistmy opinion is that svn is how god intended us to work, and that if we move to bzr I'll grudgingly live with it07:07
=== mdke goes out
LaserJockwell, I'm no bzr diehard, I use it for packaging where I do all my work locally07:08
jeffschok, so i branch desktopguide, make commits offline, then push them to the bzr server on d.u.c?07:08
LaserJockjeffsch: bzr checkout, branch our checkout locally, work on it offline, merge back in and commit when you are online again07:09
LaserJocka cool thing, IMO, with bzr is that all you need is the directory, we can distribute the repo as a tarball07:10
LaserJockpeople can download it and untar it and they have the whole repo, history and all07:10
LaserJockor you can use rsync07:10
jeffschcan we tarball our svn repos with the same results?07:12
LaserJocknot sure07:12
LaserJockyou would you do a checkout?07:12
jeffschi think svn tracks everything in a .svn folder, one for each directory07:13
=== _sara [n=sara@pool-70-104-64-205.pskn.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
jeffschbzr does it similar, but with only on .bzr folder at the top of the hierarchy07:14
LaserJockyeah, but I'm not sure you can just untar it and then commit, I could be wrong07:14
=== _sara [n=sara@pool-70-104-64-205.pskn.east.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Konversation]
jeffschyeah, there might be some machine-specific or other local-specific stuff in the .svn folder07:14
LaserJocksince bzr isn't tied to a repo you just tell it where you want it to go07:15
jeffschit's not tied to a repo if we use it in a distributed fashion07:16
jeffschif we use it with a central repo on d.u.c. it will be different07:16
LaserJockso it seems to me right now, functionally, you get the best of both worlds with bzr07:16
LaserJockyou can use svn-like checkout or the distributed branch07:16
jeffschso only docteam members will have push rights to d.u.c, others must have us pull their changes from some public space07:17
LaserJockmy issues right now are speed (maybe it isn't a problem, but it could be) and having to have non-docteam members have a place to publish branches07:17
jeffschbzr can't import diffs from email?07:18
LaserJockjeffsch: it can but that sort of defeats the purpose of being able to merge branches07:21
jsgotangcoLaserJock: the pqmbot takes care of that no?07:21
LaserJockjsgotangco: takes care of what?07:21
jsgotangcowho to allow to merge/push07:22
LaserJockjsgotangco: yes, although we have done it for now with just giving doc-team members rw access to the repo07:23
jsgotangcoah right07:23
LaserJockI'm more concerned about the non-docteam members07:23
jsgotangcoLaserJock: they could always branch from our sources from svn, after all its public07:24
=== dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc
LaserJockI'd like to have people email me "Heah laserjock, if got a cool new section for the packaging guide, my branch is at htttp://xyz.com/coolpatch"07:25
LaserJockthen I can bzr merge http://xyz.com/coolpatch07:25
jeffschLaserJock: what if you get 10 emails like that, and 4 of the merges conflict?07:25
jsgotangcoi gotta sleep07:26
LaserJockbzr is smart07:26
jsgotangcogood night07:26
LaserJockcya jsgotangco 07:26
jeffschnot smart enough to choose my "can't" over someone elses "can not"07:27
jeffschyou still have to decide whether or not to keep the appostrophe version07:27
jeffschthat's the kind of conflict I'm talking about07:27
LaserJockwell, that will occur no matter what we do07:27
jeffschin svn, conflict resolution is distributed07:28
jeffschsvn won't let you commit without resolving conflicts07:28
jeffschin bzr, conflict resolution is centralized07:28
jeffschthe guy at the top must resolve all conflicts himself07:28
LaserJockok, I gotta go. I'll be back in ~30 min.07:29
LaserJockI think we should test some of this out07:29
dsasis there a test bzr repo i can branch from?07:32
jeffschyeah, there's one on docteam.ubuntu.com, but i don't know where exactly yet07:35
jeffschask LaserJock when he comes back, or mdke if he07:36
jeffsch's around07:36
trappistso what does bzr do with conflicts it can't resolve?07:40
dsasit makes two files iirc, one called BASE, one called HEAD. not sure what they do07:44
jeffschtrappist: http://bazaar-vcs.org/IntroductionToBzr#head-3c92313cdbc6d0b648fb742a98ada0d38e043ef707:45
trappistI do think I like svn's behavior better than that07:46
trappistto the extent that it's different07:47
jeffschif bzr will allow us to create better docs faster and with fewer errors, then I'm all for it07:49
jeffschotherwise, there's no point in switching07:49
LaserJockjeffsch: I agree07:53
LaserJockdsas: the current URL to branch from is http://doc.ubuntu.com/bzr/07:54
dsasLaserJock: thanks07:54
LaserJockjeffsch: my interest was 2 things:07:54
LaserJock1) possible splitting up the current svn trunk into branches (common, ubuntu, kubuntu, generic, etc.) so that people don't have to get the whole thing just to work on one doc07:55
LaserJock2) making it easier for non-docteam members to contribute07:55
LaserJockand I'm currently not convinced of both07:55
trappistthey both sound pretty great - I don't see why svn couldn't handle the first one though07:57
LaserJockI don't think that it was  so much a matter of svn couldn't but maybe bzr would handle it better07:57
LaserJockI think bzr is still so much in development that I bet by the time we get to Edgy+1 it will be significantly faster and more stable07:59
LaserJockjeffsch: do you need the url for pushing changes?08:01
jeffschyeah... http://doc.ubuntu.com/bzr/ is not it?08:02
LaserJockjeffsch: you can't push there I don't think08:02
LaserJockjeffsch: I think you need sftp to publish08:02
LaserJockjeffsch: or am I wrong08:03
jeffschyou need sftp to "bzr push sftp://blah.blah.com/whatever"08:03
jeffschbut you can also use rsync08:04
LaserJockjeffsch: so you will need sftp://<username>@doc.ubuntu.com/srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/bzr/ I think08:06
jeffschok, thanks. I will try it later... kinda busy on something else right now08:06
LaserJockjeffsch: me too08:07
=== poningru [n=poningru@ip68-226-0-76.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== jenda [n=jenda@unaffiliated/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== poningru [n=poningru@ip68-226-0-76.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc
LaserJockhi mdke 11:36
mdkehow's it going?11:36
LaserJockpretty good, trying to get some research done today11:38
mdkeah, real life eh?11:42
LaserJockyeah, but I talked with jeffsch this morning about bzr and I got an upload in too. :-)11:43
=== mdke nods

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!