[12:04] alright, done [12:06] LaserJock, do you need anything else? [12:06] well not at the moment, but lifeless is holding my hand through some thought experiments [12:06] great [12:07] I think we will want to move a directory into /srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/ perhaps [12:07] doesn't it do ssh? [12:08] yes, but I was wanting it to be publically available for download, but maybe we just want to have the tarball checkout for that [12:08] oh yeah, doh [12:08] let's do that now, shall we? [12:32] mdke: what do you think, should I put the current svn repo on LP? [12:32] LaserJock, no, I think we should play around on doc.u.c first [12:32] ok [12:32] you? [12:33] that's fine, although it looks like a nice option [12:33] all these branches flying around scare me [12:33] but to be honest I don't know if we are ready for bzr yet [12:34] mdke: well, it would only be one branch [12:36] mdke: ok, so if you mv /home/laserjock/public_html/ubuntu-doc-bzr into /srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/bzr/ and chown it to bzrgrp [12:37] you want it as bzr/ubuntu-doc-bzr? [12:38] hmm, I guess just bzr/ would work [12:39] ok [12:41] what owner? [12:41] umm, I guess :bzrgrp [12:42] ok, i did ubuntu-doc [12:42] is ubuntu-doc a part of hte bzrgrp group? [12:43] or will that matter? [12:43] no, and no (I think) [12:43] as you can tell, I'm no sys admin [12:43] me neither [12:43] blind leading the blind? [12:44] ok, let me see if I can checkout and send changes [12:45] you'll want permission, hang onm [12:47] ok [12:47] is 775 the right permissions? [12:49] looks good to me === frank23 [n=frank@modemcable135.248-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:47] LaserJock, how's it going? === Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:04] -> bed === _sara [n=sara@pool-70-104-64-205.pskn.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:14] mdke: just trying to resolve ssh key issues :( === mpt [n=mpt@219-89-140-241.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:52] hmm, how did you guys get the docteam coffee thing on the forums? [02:53] docteam cofee? [02:55] yeah, what? [02:56] you know how the forum has a coffee thing on the side (based on how many posts you do I think) [02:57] a few people here have that, how does one acquire that? === Burgundavia_ [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:57] rob: I think you have to make posts :-) [02:57] heh, I just signed up an account on there! [02:58] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=123836 [02:58] look at the right hand side bits of each post [03:02] oh yeah, the ubuntu doc team bit [03:04] I don't have that :'( === klepas [n=klepas@sponge.solutionsfirst.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:19] moin [03:19] heard you folks are after someone to do a bunch of covers [03:20] klepas: yes, for the desktop guides which are going be be available to be purchased in print [03:21] mhh [03:21] cool [03:21] also server and packageing guides [03:21] deadline? [03:21] ja [03:21] nothing has been set yet [03:21] well when do you guys need this by [03:21] latest [03:22] we want to make all the translations available too, so it will take a while for that to get done [03:22] because i have my hands full in the immediate future, about a week [03:22] Madpilot here did a few things, maybe better to talk with him too? [03:23] SURE [03:23] ack, caps [03:23] robotgeek, I gave him a couple of links, but yes madpilot was our guy who did that :) [03:24] klepas, there are also some templates on the lulu.com website (which isn't working for me otherwise I'd get you the links) [03:24] for size etc [03:24] we are looking at crown quarto for the size [03:26] klepas, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-April/001180.html [03:26] email from matt [03:40] checking it out now [03:41] could i get some ratios/height-width measurements? [03:41] for the cover [03:44] 7.44" x 9.68" is crown quarto [03:45] or 18.9cm x 24.6cm if you are so inclined :-) [03:45] thanks [03:46] i've got an idea for this [03:46] though it would follow some of the ideas that the GDM theme uses [03:46] and is generally appreciated higher up for official things === mpt [n=mpt@219-89-140-241.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === KingBahamut [n=bahamut@c-24-98-229-28.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:28] evening all [06:33] mdke: got bzr to work, it's sorta slow, but it works === Madpilot [n=brian@S0106000d88b9f3db.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:01] Burgundavia_, ping [07:04] Madpilot: pong [07:04] how's things in OK? [07:04] which centre of culture are you in tonight? [07:04] Guthrie, just north of OK city [07:05] was in Woodward today [07:05] how are the demos going? === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:13] http://www.warbard.ca/temp/Kubuntu_Lulu_cover_draft_CQsize.png <-- Kubuntu DG cover in white/pale blue, instead of dark blue/light blue === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:17] evening robitaille [07:17] Hi Madpilot [07:18] I'm reading the blog of the latest Canonical employee: http://sfllaw.livejournal.com/ [07:22] "Shaving? Do I have to shave if I work from home?" - hehe [07:23] ah yes, he's in Montreal [07:24] it will be nice to finally have a full-time person doing QA stuff [07:25] fewer complaints from the bughunters when you ping one of your older bugs to see if a known fix has been committed yet - maybe... :P [07:40] http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1759298,00.html === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:58] Madpilot: there was someone from -artwork here earlier [07:59] Madpilot: klepas was the nick. They were going to do some covers === LaserJock_away goes away again [08:01] interesting - thanks, LaserJock_away [08:01] klepas, ping? === mpt_ [n=mpt@219-89-153-120.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:07] Madpilot: that tank link is insane [08:07] cool, isn't it? [08:07] hmm, there's no #ubuntu-art channel... [08:07] artwork [08:07] we should probably get -art to redirect to -artwork [08:08] anyway, I need to sleep, is 1am here [08:08] you two hours ahead of us? Thought it was just 1hr? === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt__ [n=mpt@219-89-137-20.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:48] Madpilot: pong [08:54] Madpilot: i've got to run, going home from the office. [08:55] i shall be on later this evening/today [08:55] give it a few hours [08:55] :) [09:06] Madpilot, very nice === mpt [n=mpt@219-89-152-231.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@ip68-226-0-76.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:28] Madpilot, I think we can remove the document-specific text from the covers [09:29] lulu can get it from the book title, that way you don't have to make a new cover for every book/translation [09:30] but we'd need to check that it will put it in the right place [09:40] afk === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:45] mdke, was AFK - shutting down now - I'll change the covers tomorrow, if Lulu can do the titles at that end [09:45] later, all === dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@219-89-154-19.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@219-89-154-19.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt_ [n=mpt@219-89-154-19.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@219-89-153-137.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dt-oz-gc [n=dt@sou-ts1-2600-143.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dt-oz-gc [n=dt@sou-ts1-2600-143.tpgi.com.au] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Ciou] === dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kamping_Kaiser [n=kgoetz@ppp228-44.lns2.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@219-89-153-137.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@219-89-153-137.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === klepas [n=klepas@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === klepas [n=klepas@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia_ [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=Jono@mtngprs7.mtn.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:14] evening all [06:22] hi [06:22] its already dawn here heh [06:23] doing an all nighter? [06:24] nahh its only 12:30am just closing some xorg bugs === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@60.254.67.17] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:48] hi mdke [06:50] hi LaserJock [06:50] afternoon all :) [06:51] I got my stupid ssh key issue figured out [06:51] ssh keys are the bomb [06:51] so I was able to do a bzr checkout, added a file, and did a commit [06:51] and it worked like svn [06:52] it seems that Lulu don't support multiple licenses... I'm trying to convince them to add it [06:53] it takes a loong time to do the checkout, but once you do you have the entire repo history locally, and it doesn't seem to take up much space [06:53] that sounds like svn [06:56] well, with svn you have to connect to the server to get the history [06:57] ah, the entire repo history eh? Is that useful? [06:58] yeah, it means you can work locally for basically everythin [06:59] it means you only connect to the server when you are commiting, more or less [06:59] LaserJock: yeah the first checkout is really sllloooowwwwww [06:59] isn't that the case with svn too? [06:59] I onyl connect to the server when committing in svn, too [06:59] no, if you want to look at a particular revision perhaps [06:59] you have to talk to the server with svn [06:59] if you don't have it cached [06:59] yes, but I don't think I've ever wanted to do that [07:00] right [07:00] except for looking at commit mail, I guess [07:01] an advantage for non-doc members (ie. branch not checkout) is they can commit locally [07:01] so they can have revision control while they are working [07:01] and then send a diff or push their branch when they are done [07:02] right [07:02] at this point my issues with bzr are the speed [07:02] my understanding is that you work locally, making all the commits you want, then [07:02] jeffsch: unless you do a bzr checkout (new in 0.8) [07:02] when you are ready, you publish it all on a webserver somewhere [07:03] all the commits are to your local copy though, right? [07:03] no [07:03] not with checkout [07:03] ok, but can you still work locally and still keep version control? [07:03] is bzr checkout just like svn checkout? if so why the need to swtich? [07:04] but it's coooooool [07:04] my thought was to perhaps have docteam members use bzr checkout (which would be more or less like svn co) [07:04] mdke: cooool doesn't mean we have to change :) [07:05] but non-docteam members would use the "traditional" bzr approach and push their changes to a server [07:05] no, but cooooooool does [07:05] that then the docteam members can merge and commit [07:05] what's wrong with the speed? [07:06] honestly, my current opinion is that we should test and watch bzr for edgy but not move (if ever) until edgy+1 [07:06] we can keep playing [07:06] if i do a bzr checkout, can i work on say, the desktopguide while not connected to the net and still have revision control on the commits that [07:06] mdke: well bzr branch seems slow currently (I timed it 4 times slower than svn co) [07:07] jeffsch: no, you would want bzr branch for that [07:07] i make to my local copy? [07:07] my opinion is that svn is how god intended us to work, and that if we move to bzr I'll grudgingly live with it [07:07] lol [07:07] haha === mdke goes out [07:08] well, I'm no bzr diehard, I use it for packaging where I do all my work locally [07:08] ok, so i branch desktopguide, make commits offline, then push them to the bzr server on d.u.c? [07:09] jeffsch: bzr checkout, branch our checkout locally, work on it offline, merge back in and commit when you are online again [07:10] a cool thing, IMO, with bzr is that all you need is the directory, we can distribute the repo as a tarball [07:10] people can download it and untar it and they have the whole repo, history and all [07:10] or you can use rsync [07:12] can we tarball our svn repos with the same results? [07:12] not sure [07:12] you would you do a checkout? [07:13] s/you/how/ [07:13] i think svn tracks everything in a .svn folder, one for each directory === _sara [n=sara@pool-70-104-64-205.pskn.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:14] bzr does it similar, but with only on .bzr folder at the top of the hierarchy [07:14] yeah, but I'm not sure you can just untar it and then commit, I could be wrong === _sara [n=sara@pool-70-104-64-205.pskn.east.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Konversation] [07:14] yeah, there might be some machine-specific or other local-specific stuff in the .svn folder [07:15] since bzr isn't tied to a repo you just tell it where you want it to go [07:16] it's not tied to a repo if we use it in a distributed fashion [07:16] right [07:16] if we use it with a central repo on d.u.c. it will be different [07:16] so it seems to me right now, functionally, you get the best of both worlds with bzr [07:16] you can use svn-like checkout or the distributed branch [07:17] so only docteam members will have push rights to d.u.c, others must have us pull their changes from some public space [07:17] my issues right now are speed (maybe it isn't a problem, but it could be) and having to have non-docteam members have a place to publish branches [07:18] bzr can't import diffs from email? [07:21] jeffsch: it can but that sort of defeats the purpose of being able to merge branches [07:21] LaserJock: the pqmbot takes care of that no? [07:21] jsgotangco: takes care of what? [07:22] who to allow to merge/push [07:23] jsgotangco: yes, although we have done it for now with just giving doc-team members rw access to the repo [07:23] ah right [07:23] I'm more concerned about the non-docteam members [07:24] LaserJock: they could always branch from our sources from svn, after all its public === dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:25] I'd like to have people email me "Heah laserjock, if got a cool new section for the packaging guide, my branch is at htttp://xyz.com/coolpatch" [07:25] then I can bzr merge http://xyz.com/coolpatch [07:25] yeah [07:25] LaserJock: what if you get 10 emails like that, and 4 of the merges conflict? [07:26] i gotta sleep [07:26] bzr is smart [07:26] good night [07:26] cya jsgotangco [07:27] not smart enough to choose my "can't" over someone elses "can not" [07:27] you still have to decide whether or not to keep the appostrophe version [07:27] sure [07:27] that's the kind of conflict I'm talking about [07:27] well, that will occur no matter what we do [07:28] in svn, conflict resolution is distributed [07:28] svn won't let you commit without resolving conflicts [07:28] in bzr, conflict resolution is centralized [07:28] the guy at the top must resolve all conflicts himself [07:29] ok, I gotta go. I'll be back in ~30 min. [07:29] I think we should test some of this out [07:29] definitely [07:32] is there a test bzr repo i can branch from? [07:35] yeah, there's one on docteam.ubuntu.com, but i don't know where exactly yet [07:36] ask LaserJock when he comes back, or mdke if he [07:36] 's around [07:36] oops [07:40] so what does bzr do with conflicts it can't resolve? [07:44] it makes two files iirc, one called BASE, one called HEAD. not sure what they do [07:45] trappist: http://bazaar-vcs.org/IntroductionToBzr#head-3c92313cdbc6d0b648fb742a98ada0d38e043ef7 [07:46] I do think I like svn's behavior better than that [07:47] to the extent that it's different [07:49] if bzr will allow us to create better docs faster and with fewer errors, then I'm all for it [07:49] otherwise, there's no point in switching [07:53] jeffsch: I agree [07:54] dsas: the current URL to branch from is http://doc.ubuntu.com/bzr/ [07:54] LaserJock: thanks [07:54] jeffsch: my interest was 2 things: [07:55] 1) possible splitting up the current svn trunk into branches (common, ubuntu, kubuntu, generic, etc.) so that people don't have to get the whole thing just to work on one doc [07:55] 2) making it easier for non-docteam members to contribute [07:55] and I'm currently not convinced of both [07:57] they both sound pretty great - I don't see why svn couldn't handle the first one though [07:57] I don't think that it was so much a matter of svn couldn't but maybe bzr would handle it better [07:59] I think bzr is still so much in development that I bet by the time we get to Edgy+1 it will be significantly faster and more stable [08:01] jeffsch: do you need the url for pushing changes? [08:02] yeah... http://doc.ubuntu.com/bzr/ is not it? [08:02] jeffsch: you can't push there I don't think [08:02] jeffsch: I think you need sftp to publish [08:03] jeffsch: or am I wrong [08:03] you need sftp to "bzr push sftp://blah.blah.com/whatever" [08:04] but you can also use rsync [08:06] jeffsch: so you will need sftp://@doc.ubuntu.com/srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/bzr/ I think [08:06] ok, thanks. I will try it later... kinda busy on something else right now [08:07] jeffsch: me too === poningru [n=poningru@ip68-226-0-76.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jenda [n=jenda@unaffiliated/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@ip68-226-0-76.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:36] evening [11:36] hi mdke [11:36] how's it going? [11:38] pretty good, trying to get some research done today [11:42] ah, real life eh? [11:43] yeah, but I talked with jeffsch this morning about bzr and I got an upload in too. :-) === mdke nods