[01:05] <wasabi> #schedule Texas
[01:05] <wasabi> @schedule Texas
[01:05] <wasabi> Heh neato.
[01:05] <wasabi> @schedule CDT
[01:06] <wasabi> Nice broken link.
[03:37] <_sHaDe> notte a tutti :)
[08:27] <Seveas> @schedule foo
[08:32] <Seveas> wasabi, broken link fixed 
[01:33] <sivang> @schedule Israel
[01:33] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 27 Apr 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 28 Apr 01:00: Kubuntu | 03 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 04 May 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[03:39] <fabbione> @schedule Denmark
[03:39] <fabbione> @schedule UTC
[03:39] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 Apr 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Apr 22:00: Kubuntu | 03 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 04 May 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:04] <Lure> @schedule Ljubljana
[09:04] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 27 Apr 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 28 Apr 00:00: Kubuntu | 02 May 23:00: Community Council | 03 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 04 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:07] <GNAM> @schedule Rome
[09:07] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 27 Apr 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 28 Apr 00:00: Kubuntu | 02 May 23:00: Community Council | 03 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 04 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:07] <GNAM> WOW
[09:10] <zul> @schedule montreal
[09:10] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 27 Apr 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Apr 18:00: Kubuntu | 02 May 17:00: Community Council | 03 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 03 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:58] <pitti> hi
[09:59] <Surak> it is time
[09:59] <fabbione> yo
[09:59] <mdz> just finishing up lunch here
[09:59] <mdz> everyone present?
[09:59] <Riddell> hi all
[09:59] <Keybuk> I'm not
[09:59] <Riddell> someone go and text Keybuk then
[10:00] <iwj> Yes.
[10:00] <dholbach> I'm here
[10:00] <BenC> I was here
[10:00] <Kamion> here
[10:00] <mvo> I think Keybuk is missing
[10:00] <heno> here
[10:00] <infinity> I jiust dragged myself out of bed to be present, but am still sick as a dog and wishing I weren't. :)
[10:01] <mdz> seb is on holiday, ogra and mvo were excused
[10:02] <dholbach> mvo is here :)
[10:02] <mdz> doko,Mithrandir,Kinnison,JaneW?
[10:02] <doko> here
[10:02] <mdz> mvo: hey, you said you couldn't make it!
[10:02] <mvo> mdz: I'm here, I said "I may not make it" ;)
[10:02] <mvo> I left early and did not shower *phear*
[10:03] <dholbach> YAY for mvo, he made it home living from the soccer court! :-)
[10:03] <mdz> ah, tollef is excused as well
[10:03] <mdz> busy night
[10:03] <Keybuk> can I be excused too? :p
[10:03] <BenC> did you fart? :)
[10:03] <fabbione> so let's keep it fast
[10:03] <fabbione> and we can all go back to sleep :)
[10:03] <mdz> that's everyone we're expecting, then
[10:04] <Keybuk> BenC: mmm, beans
[10:04] <mdz> BenC: GO
[10:04] <BenC> Kernel: Security updates for warty/hoary/breezy. New kernel upload with mostly bug fixes. Update of note, new ipw3945 driver is finally in.
[10:04] <BenC> and that's all I have to say about that
[10:04] <mdz> BenC: is ipw3945 fixed now?
[10:04] <mdz> last I looked it was in-but-broken
[10:04] <BenC> bugs are back at the top of my todo list
[10:04] <BenC> broken?
[10:05] <BenC> I still need to catch up on email, so that's news to me
[10:05] <infinity> What's broken about it?
[10:05] <BenC> the only thing I know that's "broken" is that it isn't on the installer
[10:05] <mdz> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/35215
[10:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35215 in linux-source-2.6.15 "ipw3945 driver required for functionality on new Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Mini-PCI Express Adapters" [Normal,In progress]  
[10:05] <BenC> will check it out
[10:05] <mdz> ok
[10:06] <mdz> it would be worthwhile to spend some time with sfllaw talking about kernel bugs
[10:06] <mdz> help him help you to stay on top of that bug list
[10:06] <BenC> ok
[10:06] <sfllaw> BenC: Hi.
[10:06] <mdz> BenC: feeling OK about the kernel freeze date of May 18?
[10:07] <mdz> that's to be a hard freeze, final kernel in dapper by then
[10:08] <mdz> barring Very Bad Things
[10:08] <BenC> mdz: yep
[10:08] <pitti> not even security updates?
[10:08] <BenC> sfllaw: /m me after the meeting, we can get something going
[10:08] <mdz> the sooner the bug list can be correctly prioritized, the better chance we have of nailing the worst of the bugs in time
[10:08] <mdz> BenC: thanks
[10:08] <mdz> dholbach: next?
[10:08] <dholbach> Bugs: HugDay next week wednesday, slowly catching up with bugs, delighted to see more and more community members helping out, still the bug explosion is terryfying
[10:08] <dholbach> IconMission: getting more and more icons in, g-p-m upload next, sent (our bugs as) requests to Dave, will poke some more
[10:08] <dholbach> this week: MOTU mass bug filing about unmet deps, bug triage, random fixing
[10:08] <dholbach> next week: HUG DAY, more bug fixing, more bug triage
[10:08] <dholbach> question: Do we have the infrastructure for test-rebuilds already? Is that something I can push in the MOTU direction as well?
[10:09] <mdz> dholbach: you've been planning the b^Hhug day with sfllaw, yes?
[10:09] <mdz> in there a specific focus for this one?
[10:09] <dholbach> mdz: absolutely, jhe'll tell us more about it :)
[10:09] <dholbach> I didn't want to steal his show :)
[10:09] <mdz> ok, we'll talk about it during his slot then
[10:09] <dholbach> :-)
[10:09] <mdz> dholbach: how is your bug count doing?
[10:10] <dholbach> i think I have around 700 unread desktop-bugs mails
[10:10] <mdz> and open desktop bugs?
[10:10] <Surak> dholbach: I triaged some of them for you this week. hope it helps.
[10:10] <dholbach> thanks Surak
[10:10] <iwj> I keep reading `sfllaw' as an abbreviation for Eben Moglen's latest excellent project.
[10:11] <sfllaw> Well, I'm not Moglen's.  But my parents consider me an excellent project.
[10:11] <dholbach> mdz: 906 assigned, 2751 subscribed
[10:11] <iwj> sfllaw: *grin*
[10:11] <Keybuk> iwj: reminds me of a sneeze
[10:11] <mdz> dholbach: eek.  approximately how many are serious and/or targeted for dapper?
[10:12] <dholbach> there are lots of duplicates, lots of old needsinfo and lots of already fixed ones
[10:12] <seb128> mdz: I think we are good on the dapper milestone list though ;)
[10:12] <mdz> seb128: you are on holiday!
[10:12] <seb128> ups
[10:12] <seb128> right :)
[10:12] <mdz>  /kick seb128
[10:12] <seb128> he
[10:12] <dholbach> 19-39 milestones
[10:12] <mdz> ok, I'll review those next week
[10:12] <dholbach> and some have pending patches already
[10:12] <seb128> I'm just here for the meeting and I'll go back to my holidays, don't worry ;)
[10:12] <mdz> thanks dholbach
[10:12] <mdz> doko: next?
[10:13] <doko> - openoffice.org: ia32 updates, OOo updated from ooo-build, new translations, two complete build sets uploaded, rosetta is importing the message strings. OOo now on the Xubuntu CD's. Now forwarding Ubuntu changes upstream. TODO's: Kubuntu love, -l10n packages with Rosetta data (hopefully LP doesn't check if the diff.gz is larger than the orig.tar.gz ;)
[10:13] <doko> - fonts: spent some time with fontconfig configuration for OOo, waiting on feedback from Diziet (the idea is to never match DejaVu and Bitstream when asking for exact metrics for font replacements).
[10:13] <doko> - printing: gnome-cups-manager updates, hplip updates, new ttf-dejavu with the most important font bug for our gnome guys fixed (touching circles) TODO's: g-c-m could need much more love from a gnome hacker (or a rewrite), upstream seems to be dead.
[10:13] <doko> - other: various bug fixing, building OOo breezy packages with idle CPU cycles, azureus (weekend work)
[10:13] <mdz> doko: are both oo.o and firefox happy with their fonts now?
[10:13] <dholbach> um... nobody answered my question - i guess i'll just talk to infinity and Kinnison about that later on
[10:14] <doko> mdz: yes, but we could better, see (the idea is to never match DejaVu and Bitstream when asking for exact metrics for font replacements).
[10:14] <pitti> doko: yes, g-c-m is indeed dead upstream
[10:14] <mdz> dholbach: what question?
[10:14] <dholbach> about test rebuilds
[10:14] <seb128> doko: printing has been moved to GTK for 2.10, I expect them to have stopped any print work on the other API to not have to do the work again 
[10:14] <seb128> (ie: libgnomeprint(ui) will be deprecated)
[10:14] <dholbach> apropos fonts: there's a new pango pending (just fyi)
[10:14] <iwj> doko: Err, I seem to be missing that mail.  Let me check again.
[10:14] <doko> ok, so just get it somewhat working ...
[10:14] <mdz> doko: what's your plan regarding Kubuntu?
[10:14] <doko> iwj: no, my pings during the last 48 hours ;-P
[10:15] <iwj> doko: Yes, I don't have that mail.
[10:15] <infinity> dholbach: Sorry, I missed it.  We have test-rebuild magic, and it's being turned on.
[10:15] <iwj> Oh.  IRC is not a reliable medium !
[10:15] <mdz> is oo.o-kde in need of love?
[10:15] <dholbach> infinity: rock on!
[10:15] <Riddell> on amd64 it is
[10:15] <doko> mdz: install it and check for the crashes, I never did see them with a KDE installation on top of Gnome
[10:15] <iwj> doko: Want to chat now (well, when you're done with your report) in #ubuntu-devel or privmsg ?
[10:15] <mdz> iwj: generally we do expect that if someone is logged into IRC, they will read messages addressed to them there (eventually)
[10:15] <doko> iwj: sure, after the meeting
[10:16] <mdz> doko: as far as Dapper, are you relatively satisfied with the printing packages now, after this last batch of updates?
[10:16] <iwj> mdz: I do try to search for my nick when I arrive in the morning and periodically.
[10:17] <mdz> dholbach: new bugfix pango, presumably?
[10:17] <dholbach> yeah
[10:17] <dholbach> I just wanted to tell doko beforehand
[10:17] <doko> mdz: not yet, network printers could be better, naming of printers could be better (but seems to be major work), will address duplicate HP printers in the seleciton
[10:17] <mdz> doko: are any of those regressions from breezy?
[10:17] <pitti> ivoks did some nice work wrt network printers
[10:17] <doko> dholbach: "interesting"
[10:18] <pitti> I still have to take a look at his patches
[10:18] <dholbach> doko: it fixes stuff, I know it means work for you.
[10:18] <pitti> mdz: the one doko mentioned aren't regressions, they have always been that bad IIRC
[10:18] <doko> pitti: yes
[10:18] <mdz> ok
[10:19] <mdz> doko: thanks
[10:19] <mdz> fabbione: next?
[10:19] <fabbione> * server-candy: Missing/buggy: apache2 for "central snakeoil SSL setup".
[10:19] <fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: should be done. It needs one last global review before going gold.
[10:19] <fabbione> * last week: almost ill all week.
[10:19] <fabbione> * next week: X bug squashing.
[10:19] <pitti> however, with a few easy changes, we can make network printers much nicer
[10:19] <mdz> fabbione: what's wrong with apache2?
[10:19] <fabbione> mdz: the same it has been for the last 2 meetings.
[10:19] <fabbione> mdz: it needs ssl love
[10:19] <fabbione> and infinity has been ill too
[10:19] <mdz> pitti: if it's straightforward and low-risk, just do it, otherwise send me details to discuss
[10:19] <fabbione> so nobody gave him love
[10:19] <fabbione> did i mention i hate X?
[10:20] <fabbione> if not. it's official... I hate X :)
[10:20] <mdz> people who touch apache are dying
[10:20] <mdz> fabbione: how are you feeling today?
[10:20] <pitti> mdz: yes, it's easy, just a matter of time
[10:20] <fabbione> mdz: worked 12 hours more or less.. so i would say good... killed 20 bugs or so
[10:20] <zell1983> .
[10:21] <mdz> fabbione: arrange to spend some time talking with sfllaw about X bug triage
[10:21] <fabbione> mdz: will do
[10:21] <mdz> thanks
[10:21] <mdz> heno: next?
[10:21] <heno>  * accessibility: working with Luke on broken config stuff seen in Live CD beta testing; did a fair bit of work with upsteam on shaping a new Orca and general a11y configuration system. Also wrote some specs for a11y SoC projects.
[10:21] <heno>  * winfoss: continued work on the kubuntu version; looking to upload on Monday
[10:21] <heno>  * other: some firefox bug triage
[10:22] <mdz> heno: are there further accessibility fixes that you intend to land for dapper?
[10:22] <dholbach> enable brltty again - I have to do that
[10:22] <dholbach> and we're going to split the gnome-a11y-themes package
[10:22] <heno> yes, some of the gconf setting don't quite work yet
[10:22] <dholbach> that's all I can think of for now
[10:22] <mdz> brltty scares me
[10:22] <heno> I think it's been submitted though
[10:23] <dholbach> (re: brltty - we have the memleak patch) and I asked Keybuk to look at udev rules for it
[10:23] <infinity> Oh, pff, it only ate 1.5GB of RAM in 2 days over here, that's not scary.
[10:23] <Keybuk> you did, yes
[10:23] <mdz> I don't think it should run by default
[10:23] <mdz> only if the accessibility mode is enabled
[10:23] <mdz> is that possible?
[10:23] <dholbach> ok, I'll talk with TheMuso to think how we achieve that in an easy way
[10:23] <mdz> i.e., if the user boots the live cd in accessible mode and does an espresso install, they get it, otherwise no
[10:23] <Keybuk> dholbach: the main problem with the rules you suggested is that it wouldn't ever stop
[10:24] <mdz> ok
[10:24] <mdz> heno: thanks
[10:24] <mdz> infinity: next?
[10:24] <dholbach> Keybuk: ok, if you could explain after the meeting, that'd be nice
[10:24] <infinity> last week: was sick (still am) most of the week, but managed to keep on top of build failures, uploading some fixes, pinging maintainers about others, otherwise taking orange juice inteavenously and following doctor's orders (mostly)
[10:24] <infinity> next week: nail the samba segv I introduced in my last upload, attack some pending security updates, then hit my bug list and reduce it by half (or more), time permitting.
[10:24] <mdz> infinity: what's the doc's prognosis?
[10:25] <infinity> I'm not dying, I just need to sleep and back away from the computer for a bit.  Upcoming weekend should solve that for good, I suspect.
[10:25] <mdz> ok, rest up
[10:26] <mdz> infinity: thanks
[10:26] <mdz> iwj: next?
[10:27] <iwj> Firefox: 1.5.0.2 finally uploaded following various faff.
[10:27] <iwj> Evince vs firefox fonts problem: you'll have seen my uploads, perhaps, after moderately extensive delving into fontconfig and pango.  Anyone got any more feedback about this ?  The current situation is still not 100% correct but it gives the right outcome in most of the key cases AFAICT.
[10:27] <iwj> Firefox: pango slowness: have `fix' script, just installing Dapper in various languages to test it.  I'm really looking forward to doing an install in Japanese or Chinese :-/.
[10:27] <iwj> Firefox: other bugfixes will go in RSN, FYI.  If you have favourite bugs you want me to fix, please ping me about them and I'll put them on my list.  The Malone bug pile for Firefox is still rather unmanageable despite the very helpful triage assistance I'm getting.
[10:27] <iwj> Ghostscript bugs: that'll be next weeks' task.
[10:27] <iwj> AutomatedTesting,DeveloperDocumentation: on hold because I want to fix all the bugs I'm going to as soon as possible.
[10:27] <iwj> UK public holiday this coming Monday.
[10:27] <mdz> iwj: what's the basic issue with evince vs. firefox?
[10:27] <mdz> they're both behaving fairly sanely for me at the moment
[10:27] <iwj> This is the thing I invented anymetrics=1 for.
[10:27] <mdz> ok, right
[10:27] <iwj> Indeed, because of my fix :-).
[10:27] <mdz> so printing vs. screen fonts
[10:27] <iwj> Exactly.
[10:28] <iwj> That's what doko wants to talk to me about, too.
[10:28] <melon__> hp omnibook xe4500 hibernation/suspend makes display black. is there any link how to fix this (I've googled around with no luck) 
[10:28] <mdz> are there any test cases folks might be able to try?
[10:28] <iwj> mdz: That's tricky.
[10:28] <mdz> melon__: there's a meeting in progresss here (which is the purpose of this channel, not bug reports)
[10:28] <pitti> melon__: #ubuntu, please, we are in a meeting
[10:28] <mdz> melon__: try #ubuntu-laptop
[10:28] <iwj> The best answer is to do all the weird things that only you do, and if they go wrong in a fonty way, get in touch.
[10:29] <iwj> I seem to have started to `understand' how fontconfig `works' so I might be able to help with other kinds of things, although it's a bit of a swamp really.
[10:29] <melon__> ok, thank you (sorry for interrupting)
[10:29] <mdz> I think most of us print things so rarely that we don't notice these things so much
[10:29] <iwj> mdz: Right, but previews count as printing for these purposes (well, for anymetrics=1, anyway, though of course gs and evince might use different fonts for the same file ...)
[10:29] <mdz> iwj: it would be worthwhile to get in touch with epiphany upstream regarding that list of languages and how they chose it; seb128 may be able to help with that (AFTER his holiday)
[10:30] <iwj> OK.
[10:30] <iwj> I was going to deploy it with that list and see who complained.
[10:30] <iwj> Omissions will be quite obvious I imagine.
[10:30] <mdz> iwj: as you go through gs bugs, it's probably a good idea to subscribe ubuntu-printing to them, to group them with the other printing bugs
[10:30] <iwj> The alternative would be a whitelist instead of a blacklist - ie list languages we know pangoless is safe with.
[10:30] <seb128> iwj: epiphany upstream are on #epiphany (irc.gnome.org), you probably want to speak to chpe
[10:30] <iwj> mdz: Willdo.
[10:30] <iwj> seb128: Noted.
[10:31] <mdz> iwj: thanks
[10:31] <mdz> Kamion: next?
[10:31] <seb128> (other way I'll be available after my holidays as pointed by mdz :p)
[10:31] <Kamion> this-week: Renamed espresso to ubiquity, hopefully keeping most people relatively happy. Post-beta madness, fixing up lots of ubiquity bugs, especially partitioner-eats-your-disk; beta 2 nearly done.
[10:31] <Kamion> next-week: High-priority ubiquity bugs (more partitioner crashes, mostly); go through Malone hoovering up patches I need to apply.
[10:31] <Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: I'd like to discuss deferring the remaining specced changes to the partitioner. Modulo crashes, the partitioner we have now at least structurally works, and I'm loath to mess around with its structure much more before release.
[10:32] <mdz> Kamion: the rename seems to have gone rather quietly; is that a fair impression?
[10:32] <Kamion> mdz: yep
[10:32] <mdz> Kamion: how are you feeling about the ubiquity bug list?
[10:32] <Kamion> the Germans complain they can't spell it mind
[10:32] <Kamion> mdz: holding steady around 70 bugs, maybe 10-20 serious; I think I can get through the worst of them in the next two weeks
[10:32] <pitti> we'll learn it :)
[10:33] <mdz> it was a bit of a fright to learn that we had such a serious bug in beta that none of us saw
[10:33] <iwj> How many eats-your-disk bugs were there ?
[10:33] <Kamion> yes, definitely; I knew about the general bug but not its implications
[10:33] <Kamion> iwj: just one, AFAIK
[10:33] <Kamion> well, one root cause
[10:33] <iwj> Oh, right.  Not _so_ bad then (unless it was your disk).
[10:33] <Surak> Kamion: can I transfer all bugs assigned to espresso to ubiquity? there were some this week.
[10:33] <Surak> from espresso to ubiquity, i mean
[10:33] <Riddell> Kamion: beta 2 out tonight?
[10:34] <Kamion> Surak: I already did so for nearly all of them; there's one left which I'll do now
[10:34] <Kamion> Surak: feel free to reassign any further ones that arrive
[10:34] <mdz> Kamion: of the 70, you've mostly looked at all of them regarding their severity?
[10:35] <Kamion> mdz: I've looked at all the bugs, but my mental notion of their severity isn't necessarily reflected in Malone; I'll try to rectify that ASAP
[10:35] <mdz> ok
[10:35] <mdz> Kamion, meet sfllaw ;-)
[10:35] <Kamion> :-)
[10:35] <sfllaw> Kamion: We've already met.
[10:35] <sfllaw> Kamion: And please fix them.  It will be good for all of us.  :)
[10:35] <mdz> thanks
[10:35] <Kamion> the quality of bugs since I added that crash handler has risen dramatically, too, so I have medium-to-high hopes
[10:35] <mdz> Keybuk: next?
[10:35] <Keybuk> * udev: in good shape, not aware of any open bugs
[10:35] <Keybuk> * initscripts: NFS mounting race condition, just got to move it to a network event, but want to make sure I don't break /usr as NFS; have plan
[10:35] <Keybuk> * network-manager: been starting to go down the bug list and have tracked down a few of them, and getting the rest sent upstream
[10:35] <Keybuk> * misc: been going through all the packages checking for /var/run and /var/lock issues and also looked for packages still using /etc/hotplug or shipping udev rules wrong, etc.
[10:35] <Keybuk> * plans: start going through bugs in other packages looking for things I can fix
[10:36] <Keybuk> "X" ?
[10:36] <fabbione> xorg
[10:36] <mdz> Keybuk: I was looking at that ifupdown "Network is down" bug the other day, the one with all the unrelated (and probably obsolete) reports of network interfaces not being brought up
[10:36] <mdz> Keybuk: is there an issue there?
[10:36] <Keybuk> mdz: got a bug# to refresh me
[10:37] <Keybuk> there isn't one on ifupdown
[10:37] <mdz> I think it was on n-m or someplace else silly
[10:37] <Keybuk> I fixed the one that was about network interfaces not being brought up
[10:37] <mdz> it struck me as a tangled web that needed unweaving
[10:37] <Keybuk> which was also the same bug that caused it to hang on boot at "Configuring network interfaces" sometimes
[10:37] <Keybuk> I may have missed a dup or two of that
[10:38] <Keybuk> it was evil
[10:38] <doko> there was one nasty debhelper bug ignoring errors when servies are restarted on upgrade (means reupload of these packages is needed)
[10:38] <Keybuk> a "minor" udev change we snuck in from upstream just before I froze it (so months ago) meant that ifup was called with the original name of an interface, not its renamed name
[10:38] <mdz> this one looked different, though; it had lots of unrelated reports but the original issue wasn't clearly addressed
[10:38] <Keybuk> hmm, I'll have to find that one -- if you come across it again, subscribe me to it and ping me on it
[10:38] <mdz> Keybuk: bug 21563
[10:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 21563 in dhcp3 dhcp3-client "Network doesn't come up after boot" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/21563
[10:38] <mdz> you're already subscribed and have commented much
[10:39] <Keybuk> oh, *that* one
[10:39] <mdz> but I think it got lost in a sea of unrelated stuff
[10:39] <Keybuk> yeah, that one we have *no* clue about
[10:39] <Keybuk> we've had that since, oh, warty I think
[10:39] <mdz> er, no, that's not the one I meant
[10:39] <Keybuk> I certainly came across it in breezy
[10:39] <Keybuk> oh
[10:39] <mdz> ah
[10:39] <mdz> bug 19740
[10:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 19740 in dhcp3 dhcp3-client "unexplained failure to obtain DHCP address" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/19740
[10:39] <mdz> SIOCSIFFLAGS: Permission denied
[10:39] <mdz> ...
[10:39] <mdz> receive_packet failed on eth0: Network is down
[10:39] <mdz> ...
[10:39] <mdz> send_packet: Network is down
[10:39] <mdz> that one
[10:39] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, that's still the general thought of bug
[10:39] <mdz> pitti: yes, but we're also short on people, so it will go quickly :-)
[10:39] <Keybuk> I frequently blame pitti <g>
[10:40] <pitti> mdz: hm, right; so, sorry :)
[10:40] <mdz> Keybuk: let's chat about it another time
[10:40] <Keybuk> gah, we still have to confirm we want to subscribe
[10:40] <doko> yeah, but pitti doesn't belong to the short people
[10:40] <mdz> saw the NFS mount thing, that definitely needs addressing for the release (set the milestone if it isn't already)
[10:40] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks
[10:40] <mdz> Kinnison: next?
[10:41] <pitti> he's alive again?
[10:41] <Keybuk> Kinnison is very dead
[10:41] <pitti> yesterday he was still ill
 Poor Kinni.  He's got a chest infection.  Been given the largest possible dose of Amoxicillin, and he has to take 6 steriods a day for a week.
[10:41] <mdz> oh, did I miss an email on that?
[10:42] <zul> probably
[10:42] <mdz> I don't see a mail, hrm
[10:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: on to you, then
[10:42] <mdz> er
[10:42] <mdz> except that he's not here
[10:42] <mdz> mvo: you're up
[10:43] <mvo> Did:
[10:43] <mvo> - uploaded the backported update-manager to breezy-updates
[10:43] <mvo> - dist-upgrade testing (amd64, i386)
[10:43] <mvo> - dist-upgrade tool work
[10:43] <mvo> - bug triage/reporting/fixing
[10:43] <mvo> - lots of cd testing
[10:43] <mvo> - some apt work (merging/bugs overview/proxy issues)
[10:43] <mvo> Will do:
[10:43] <mvo> - more bugfixing/bug triage
[10:43] <mvo> - some improvments to the upgrade tool (sources.list rewriting)
[10:43] <mvo> Blocked:
[10:43] <mvo> - sysadmin setup for the auto-dist-upgrade testing
[10:43] <mdz> mvo: have there been any issues arising from the upgrade testing where we might want to customize the upgrade process further?
[10:44] <mvo> mdz: yes, the sources.list rewriting needs some further love, I improved the mirror detection and will offer a fallback when no official sources was detected
[10:44] <mvo> I use the mirror from wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive now
[10:44] <mvo> to detect if its a official ubuntu source
[10:44] <mdz> mvo: but no other obsolete packages to remove, etc.?
[10:45] <mdz> mvo: and is the metapackage fixup code working well?
[10:45] <mvo> mdz: it seems to be, the reports are encouraging
[10:45] <mvo> when it fails it seems to fail because of sources.list rewriting problems
[10:45] <mvo> and of course during post-inst failures
[10:45] <mdz> mvo: the auto-dist-upgrade testing just needs a chroot, right?
[10:45] <Keybuk> (interrupts) oh, and I hopefully solved the complaints about network intefaces getting odd names after upgrade -- iftab is "fixed" by the udev postinst (in a nice way)
[10:46] <mvo> I found some amd64 specific problems recently I looked more into this
[10:46] <mvo> can't test ppc myself
[10:46] <mvo> mdz: yes, just a chroot and pulling a special package
[10:46] <mdz> mvo: ping admins and let them know you are blocked; it should be quick to set up
[10:46] <pitti> mvo: ping me for ppc stuff
[10:46] <fabbione> mvo: and the demotion thingy :)
[10:46] <fabbione> mvo: remind me tomorrow to test ppc
[10:47] <mdz> Keybuk: iirc it was something like "turns wrong iftabs into correct iftabs" ;-)
[10:47] <pitti> mvo: oh, is there work in progress for dealing with packages that become unsupported after dist-upgrade?
[10:47] <mvo> fabbione: yeah, fabbione came up with the problem that packages moved from main to universe during the breezy->dapper will be considerd obsolete if the user only has main in his sources.list
[10:47] <mdz> oh
[10:47] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah  (mvo just reminded me -- I was going to put it in the update manager, but decided postinst was better)
[10:47] <mdz> Kamion: I think we're due for an anastacia session
[10:47] <mvo> pitti: that is a special case of fabbiones problem, I think we can solve it with the same solution
[10:47] <Kamion> I've been doing bits, but nothing concentrated
[10:47] <Kamion> Scott has done a few bits too
[10:48] <Keybuk> yeah, I've got the hang of this ftp stuff
[10:48] <mdz> Keybuk: let's spend some quality time with anastacia
[10:48] <Keybuk> when would you like to do that?
[10:48] <mvo> pitti: fabbione had the idea to include a list of all demotinons so that we can tell the user about them
[10:48] <mdz> it should be close to empty at this point, modulo some remaining xubuntu bits
[10:48] <Kamion> Keybuk: PLAGIARISM
[10:48] <pitti> mvo: right
[10:48] <mdz> Keybuk: after the meeting, if you're staying up
[10:48] <Keybuk> sure
[10:48] <mdz> mvo: anything alarming on the apt bug list?
[10:48] <Keybuk> Kamion: who am I plagiodfiodasjfdjksf(can't spell that one)ising?
[10:49] <mvo> mdz: BADSIG errors from transparent/bad proxies
[10:49] <mvo> that seems to be the only issue
[10:49] <mvo> we are plagued by this since some time :/
[10:49] <mdz> what can we do?
[10:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: http://xanna.livejournal.com/51821.html
[10:49] <mvo> stub is helping by testing my various patches
[10:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: ahh, wrong window? :) 
[10:49] <mvo> mdz: not sure, I'm pretty sure we are rfc compliant and the proxy is not
[10:49] <mdz> mvo: would it help at all to try to disable caching with cache-control entirely?
[10:50] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'll paste that to Jen :p
[10:50] <mvo> but that dosn't help a lot
[10:50] <mvo> mdz: interesstingly not, stub has to run apt-get update twice (he is behing a very aggressive proxy apparently)
[10:50] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh, whoops, yeah
[10:50] <mdz> hmm, ok
[10:50] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[10:50] <mvo> mdz: he runs with -o Acquire::http::No-Cache=true
[10:50] <mdz> ogra is out, but sent this:
[10:50] <mdz> * general: beta preparation, manpages for ltsp, further work on the
[10:50] <mdz> edubuntu getting started guide, still no final artwork yet (and a very
[10:50] <mdz> unhappy community about the chalkboard decision :( ), beta2 preparation
[10:50] <mdz> and tests, bug triage (dhcp, ltsp, edubuntu bugs), lots of community
[10:50] <mdz> work, preparing the new edubuntu council
[10:50] <mdz> * next-week: bughunt. more doc work, more bug triage, hopefully final
[10:50] <mdz> artwork for edubuntu, first edubuntu council meeting, writing the tech
[10:50] <mdz> chapters for the cookbook, checking the new edubuntu testplans with the
[10:50] <mdz> new edubuntu test team.
[10:51] <mdz> pitti: next?
[10:51] <pitti> reducing-duplication: kdegraphics dropped imlib b-dep, which gets us rid of imlib (yay) and another gtk+1.2 r-dep. no other progress; php5-sqlite transition to sqlite3 still needs to happen for dapper
[10:51] <pitti> general stuff done in the past two week:
[10:51] <pitti>  * security updates: firefox, mozilla, mysql, ruby, cyrus-sasl; coordinated kernel update with BenC, will release probably tomorrow
[10:51] <pitti>  * bug triage and bug fixing
[10:51] <pitti>  * much cupsys love
[10:51] <pitti>  * new language packs
[10:51] <pitti>  * CD testing
[10:51] <pitti>  * cleaned up main inclusion queue a fair bit
[10:51] <pitti> plan for next week:
[10:51] <pitti>  * celebrate EOL of Warty :)
[10:51] <pitti>  * tbird security update
[10:51] <pitti>  * torture infinity with PHP security update
[10:51] <pitti>  * bugs, bugs, bugs
[10:51] <mdz> pitti: is gtk1.2->universe a possibility for dapper?
[10:52] <pitti> mdz: nontrivial
[10:52] <pitti> mdz: libdv and some odbc stuff still need it
[10:52] <infinity> php5-sqlite requires me to do a couple of sync from Debian, and a bit of futzing, but it'll be trivial.
[10:52] <infinity> s/sync/syncs/
[10:52] <pitti> mdz: libdv, libiodbc2, smpeg, xmms
[10:52] <pitti> xmms can be demoted, the rest is some serious work
[10:53] <mdz> ok, best to leave it for now, then
[10:53] <doko> pitti: can't the odbc stuff be splitted into two sources?
[10:53] <mdz> pitti: is the new cups working out ok?  any testing feedback?
[10:53] <pitti> mdz: yes, it didn't break the world at least
[10:53] <mdz> pitti: gee, that's very encouraging to hear post-beta ;-)
[10:53] <pitti> mdz: I got a fair number of new bug reports, but I don't know whether they already applied to earlier versions
[10:54] <mdz> pitti: language packs seem to be looking good according to the stats
[10:54] <pitti> mdz: I think I can do something about some bugs, when I find some time after tbird, and such
[10:54] <mdz> I wonder how we are doing with translations in the default desktop
[10:54] <pitti> mdz: indeed; I'm working with carlos for more convergence
[10:55] <pitti> oh, I need to fix some packages for building POTs; help would greatly be appreciated
[10:55] <mdz> pitti: it's a short list, yes?
[10:55] <pitti> mdz: 15ish
[10:55] <janimo> pitti, the 6 xfce ones I'll do asap
[10:55] <mdz> mvo: can you help with the .pot fixes?
[10:56] <pitti> great
[10:56] <mvo> mdz: sure
[10:56] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[10:56] <pitti> coping with the rest will be relatively easy, and it's nonintrusive, so I'll defer it a bit
[10:56] <mdz> thanks pitti
[10:56] <mdz> Riddell: next?
[10:56] <Riddell> done: bugfixes, kde ubiquity, beta 1 & 2 testing, new koffice
[10:56] <Riddell> todo: kde ubiquity, bugfixes, make sure i18n works for kubuntu-docs
[10:56] <Riddell> good news: KDE now largely working with CUPS 1.2, thanks to mh21
[10:56] <pitti> I urgently need to find time to look into some dhcp bugs
[10:56] <mvo> pitti: let talk about it after the meeting (or tomorrow morning)
[10:56] <mdz> Kamion,Riddell: how is kde ubiquity looking?
[10:57] <pitti> Riddell: I'll tell mh21 the great news :)
[10:57] <Riddell> mdz: working well for me
[10:57] <Riddell> mdz: still a number of things to fix, but certainly on target
[10:57] <mdz> Riddell: there are a lot of untriaged kubuntu bugs around
[10:57] <Riddell> qstring/unicode is a bit of a mystery I need to solve
[10:57] <mdz> Riddell: I suggest a session with sfllaw to see how he can help
[10:58] <Riddell> mdz: about 25 marked as major
[10:58] <mdz> Riddell: there seem to be a lot which haven't been looked at yet, so it's hard to say how many serious ones there could be
[10:58] <Riddell> main problem app is knetworkconf which Lure has been doing some fixes for
[10:58] <Kamion> mdz: I fixed up a fair few over the last couple of days, since I was getting the bugs anyway and wanted to have a clue about them
[10:59] <Kamion> Riddell: I think I've mostly got a handle on the qstring/unicode thing now - I don't really like how pyqt does it but I think at least I know how to handle it now
[10:59] <Riddell> mdz: the serious ones should have a priority set
[10:59] <mdz> Riddell: you know that priority is going away, right?  better to use severity (since that's usually more meaningful anyway)
[11:00] <Riddell> or do I mean severity?  The one with Major/Critial/Wishlist etc
[11:00] <mdz> yes, severity :-)
[11:00] <mdz> thanks Riddell
[11:00] <mdz> seb128: YOU ARE ON HOLIDAY
[11:00] <pitti> you scared him
[11:00] <mdz> rightly so
[11:00] <doko> we should have kicked him ;)
[11:00] <mdz> so last order of business, everyone welcome sfllaw
[11:01] <Riddell> hi sfllaw 
[11:01] <sfllaw> Hi everybody!
[11:01] <zul> hi simon
[11:01] <pitti> sfllaw: welcome
[11:01] <doko> sfllaw: welcone
[11:01] <doko> s/n/m/
[11:01] <sfllaw> Did:
[11:01] <sfllaw> - Bug triage
[11:01] <sfllaw> - Talking to #ubuntu-bugs volunteers
[11:01] <sfllaw> - Wiki editing
[11:01] <sfllaw> - Learning about my surroundings.
[11:01] <sfllaw> Will do:
[11:01] <sfllaw> - More of the above
[11:01] <Kamion> hello QA man extraordinaire
[11:01] <sfllaw> - Next week, we'll be having a HUG day that concentrates on crasher bugs.  We're planning on using GDB and valgrind.
[11:01] <mvo> hello sfllaw
[11:01] <sfllaw> Please feel free to chat with me about how our new QA department can make life easier for you.  I can't promise miracles, but I'll do my best.
[11:01] <sfllaw> Also, I also want to thank dholbach, who's done a great job looking out for me, as I bumble around.
[11:01] <Keybuk> sfllaw: welcome
[11:01] <dholbach> sfllaw: It was a pleasure. It's good to know you're around.
[11:02] <pitti> Kamion: can you please give a quick status about new breezy images? still blocked by some soyuz issue?
[11:02] <ajmitch> sfllaw: welcome :)
[11:02] <mdz> simon will be working through our unconfirmed bugs and culling duplicates, set severities, and otherwise separating the wheat from the chaff
[11:02] <sfllaw> dholbach: Was?  I'm still going to bother you for help.
[11:02] <dholbach> sfllaw: Don't worry.
[11:02] <sfllaw> mdz: Yup.  That's the plan.
[11:02] <sfllaw> I do a little bit of verification on Unconfirmed bugs to see if I can quickly confirm them, or find them in other BTSes.
[11:02] <Kamion> pitti: need to check up with cprov/Kinnison whether it can deal with d-i uploads to pockets now; after that I plan to bodge katie until she submits
[11:03] <mdz> and we're out of time
[11:03] <sfllaw> We have a lot of unconfirmed bugs right now, so I can't dig too deeply.
[11:03] <mdz> so, thanks everyone
[11:03] <dholbach> thanks
[11:03] <mdz> and good mostly-evening
[11:03] <Kamion> pitti: I've stuck it in my to-do file for after beta2
[11:03] <pitti> thank you
[11:03] <sfllaw> Thanks.
[11:03] <Keybuk> mdz: let me just take a quick break and grab a cup of tea, and we can do anastacia
[11:03] <Kamion> also, in case anyone else is slacking like me, performance review input is due in by tomorrow
[11:04] <Kamion> (two left ...)
[11:04] <mdz> Keybuk: I need workrave anyway
[11:04] <Keybuk> worryingly, I've not heard from anyone I asked to do mine
[11:04] <Kamion> Keybuk: I've done yours ...
[11:04] <iwj> TTFN everyone, and hello sfllaw :-).
[11:05] <janimo> mdz, we can have the gnumeric talk tomorrow then? if you workrave
[11:05] <mdz> janimo: I'll be back in ~10m; if that's too long, we can talk tomorrow
[11:05] <janimo> mdz, wait
[11:05] <janimo> I'll wait
[11:05] <mdz> Keybuk: usually they just quietly do them and don't tell you
[11:05] <infinity> Keybuk: If you go to your "rate yourself" link, there's a link there to check and see who has and hasn't rated you.
[11:05] <infinity> Keybuk: So you can breathe more easily.
[11:06] <pitti> Keybuk: I did yours and told you in IRC :)
[11:06] <doko> is the deadline 0:00 UTC or 24:00 UTC?
[11:06] <infinity> How can both of those exist?
[11:06] <sfllaw> Quantum  time!
[11:06] <pitti> infinitesimaly
[11:06] <infinity> Surely you mean 00:00 or 23:59? :)
[11:07] <infinity> pitti: I don't want to hear explanations from mathemeticians.  If I wanted one of those, I'd ask myself.
[11:08] <infinity> sfllaw: Same argument, but s/mathemeticians/sarcastic Canadians/
[11:08] <pitti> ok, then let's reconsider the physical approach
[11:08] <heno> infinity: think of the clock as a coordinate system with singularities, like the globe
[11:08] <sfllaw> infinity: I'm also a mathematican!
[11:08] <heno> the north pole can be described in several ways
[11:09] <infinity> sfllaw: Yes, but sarcasm always takes a more important role, right? :)
[11:10] <sfllaw> infinity: It couldn't be!
[11:11] <Keybuk> heno: Consider the Lilly
[11:11] <doko> ok, but what is it,  00:00 or 23:59?
[11:12] <Kamion> doko: I was imagining "when silbs wakes up" personally
[11:13] <doko> Kamion: oops, I did get a mail from her at 7:00 UTC this morning
[11:13] <heno> as in 'on my desk in the morning', makes sense
[11:13] <infinity> Interesting side note to this conversation... Apparently, the Japanese just count time until they fall asleep... So a late night movie on TV at 1am, is from 25:00 to 27:00.
[11:14] <Kamion> the daylight savings overlap hour there must be a barrel of laughs
[11:14] <heno> infinity: makes perfect sense. Coordinate systems can overlap
[11:15] <heno> hours used to vary in length so that there were always 12 day and night hours
[11:16] <infinity> heno: Oh, it does make sense, but it confused my poor Canadian brain for a few seconds when reading a Japanese TV guide.
[11:16] <heno> which made clock making difficult initially ...
[11:51] <Red-Sox> I'm Jonny, I'll just be watching, giving no input
[11:51] <Red-Sox> ...If that's okay
[11:51] <Kamion> no need to mention that, anyone's free to lurk
[11:51] <Red-Sox> Okay, cool
[11:52] <Kamion> but don't expect this channel to be very interesting between meetings (see topic)
[11:52] <Red-Sox> ...I know next to nothing about kubuntu... or linux for that matter
[11:52] <Red-Sox> Meeting in 10 minutes, right?
[11:52] <ajmitch> yes
[11:52] <Red-Sox> Cool
[11:58] <raphink> hi
[11:59] <Tonio_> hi
[11:59] <Lure> hi
[11:59] <OdyX> hi raphink & Tonio_
[11:59] <Riddell> evening all
[11:59] <ajmitch> morning 
[12:00] <ajmitch> just in time, Hobbsee 
[12:00] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch 
[12:00] <Hobbsee> i'm alwyas just in time...or late...
[12:00] <Hobbsee> someone got a bucket of water?
[12:00] <ajmitch> sure
[12:00] <OdyX> only beer here.
[12:00] <Riddell> 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3m,2,1
[12:01] <Hobbsee> darn cold...water!
[12:01] <raphink> hi aj
[12:01] <Hobbsee> er, where's the log thingo?
[12:01] <raphink> hi ajmitch
[12:01] <Lure> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
[12:01] <Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
[12:01] <Riddell> gug78o
[12:01] <Hobbsee> oh yes
[12:01] <Hobbsee> thta
[12:01] <ajmitch> raphink: hello
[12:01] <Riddell> ahem
[12:01] <raphink> hi Hobbsee
[12:01] <Riddell> anyone volunteeting to take minutes?
[12:02] <Tonio_> ;)
[12:02] <Ju> Hi all !
[12:02] <toma> Riddell: its too late for me, i'll go to bed in a minute
[12:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: I will take minutes if you want
[12:02] <Riddell> ok, sleep tight toma 
[12:03] <Tonio_> nite toma