[12:01] <pitti> danimo: can you please open a bug against cupsys?
[12:02] <pitti> danimo: please include the outputs of cups-deviced as cupsys and as root
[12:02] <danimo> aye
[12:02] <pitti> danimo: and maybe do 
[12:02] <pitti> sudo -u cupsys strace -o deviced-strace.txt /usr/lib/cups/daemon/cups-deviced 1 1 `id -u cupsys` '' > /dev/null
[12:02] <pitti> danimo: and attach deviced-strace.txt
[12:03] <Keybuk> doko: lib32gcj7 any idea?  guessing amd64-32-bit-thingy
[12:04] <danimo> pitti: funny, the backend detects it with either user, when being called manually
[12:04] <pitti> danimo: thank you
[12:04] <doko> Keybuk: can go, it's in one of the ia32libs now
[12:06] <danimo> pitti: do you know a way that I could use to find out what permissions cups uses to call its backends?
[12:06] <danimo> hmm, probably it has to call them with cupsys.lp
[12:07] <Keybuk> doko: do you know about lib32bz2-1.0 and its -dev?  are they in ia32?
[12:07] <pitti> danimo: you could replace cups-deviced with a small shell script that does 'id' and then exec's the real deviced with $@
[12:08] <pitti> danimo: or intercept it with gdb and look in /proc/<pid>/status
[12:08] <pitti> danimo: but since that seems to be a more common problem, I'll add some logging of that in the next cups version
[12:08] <pitti> so that you can see it in error_log with LogLevel debug
[12:09] <danimo> pitti: ok
[12:09] <doko> Keybuk: not on amd64, but on ia64
[12:09] <pitti> guys, I need some sleep
[12:09] <Keybuk> doko: seed for amd64?
[12:09] <doko> not sure, which third party apps might need it. seeding doesn't hurt
[12:10] <pitti> good night everyone!
[12:12] <pitti> Keybuk: did you seed vim-tiny? I have a mail open from Nafallo asking for that
[12:12] <danimo> pitti: uid=100(cupsys) gid=106(lpadmin) Gruppen=7(lp),20(dialout),106(lpadmin),110(scanner)
[12:12] <danimo> pitti: I got that by adding a fake backend that would only call "id"
[12:12] <pitti> danimo: hm, that sounds fine
[12:12] <danimo> absolutely
[12:12] <pitti> danimo: does the strace reveal any error?
[12:13] <pitti> danimo: FWIW, I have an USB printer here, too, and it's perfectly recognized 
[12:13] <danimo> pitti: odd, new it also works with only cupsys
[12:13] <Keybuk> pitti: yup
[12:13] <danimo> pitti: and I changed nothing
[12:13] <pitti> Keybuk: thanks
[12:13] <danimo> pitti: I don't get it
[12:13] <Keybuk> pitti: just pushing the seed changes now
[12:14] <pitti> danimo: you changed something, you debugged the package ->  heisenbug :)
[12:14] <danimo> pitti: yes :}
[12:15] <danimo> pitti: at least I have a pove that it wasn't there at some point
[12:15] <danimo> pitti: so it proves I'm not insane at least :)
[12:15] <pitti> danimo: I believe you, I think this happened to me once, too
[12:15] <pitti> ok, good night, 2nd attempt
[12:15] <pitti> sleep well everyone
[12:15] <mdke> night
[12:16] <mdke> btw, did anyone figure out why vi is the default editor still?
[12:17] <Keybuk> why shouldn't it be?
[12:18] <mdke> Keybuk: dude.
[12:18] <Keybuk> sorry, I'll rephrase that question
[12:18] <mdke> or was that a serious question?
[12:18] <Keybuk> what makes you think we've done anything to make it *not* the default editor?
[12:18] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/6.06-beta-2
[12:18] <Kamion> feedback welcome
[12:18] <Kamion> Keybuk: it was nano in warty as I remember, and we always intended the default editor to be nano
[12:19] <mdke> and hoary, and breezy
[12:19] <Kamion> we discussed that very early on
[12:19] <Keybuk> yes
[12:19] <Keybuk> you're correct
[12:19] <mdke> Keybuk: bug #39469 if you wanna look into it :)
[12:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39469 in vim "Nano is not the default editor, and should be" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39469
[12:19] <Keybuk> SOMEBODY changed the vim alternatives priority to 120 :p
[12:19] <Keybuk> (breezy)
[12:19] <Keybuk> /usr/bin/vim - priority 35
[12:19] <Keybuk>  slave editor.1.gz: /usr/share/man/man1/vim.1.gz
[12:19] <Keybuk> (dapper)
[12:19] <Keybuk> /usr/bin/vim - priority 120
[12:19] <Keybuk>  slave editor.1.gz: /usr/share/man/man1/vim.1.gz
[12:19] <Keybuk> -- 
[12:19] <Keybuk> Debian inheritance, I guess
[12:20] <Keybuk> trivial to fix
[12:20] <mdke> yay
[12:22] <Keybuk> it actually looks like a missed merge
[12:22] <Keybuk> maybe Debian changed how they set it
[12:23] <Keybuk> fixed anyhoo
[12:23] <mdke> thanks dude, that has been hanging around for ages, brilliant
[12:24] <crimsun> Kamion: perhaps the Xubuntu portion can be reworded to something along the lines of: "An updated Xubuntu 6.06 LTS Beta 2 release is in preparation and will be announced shortly."
[12:24] <crimsun> ("6.06 LTS Beta 2" is a bit awkward above, but perhaps consistency is key)
[12:25] <Kamion> crimsun: I think that is a bit too clumsy - maybe "An updated Xubuntu release is also in preparation ..."?
[12:26] <crimsun> Kamion: sure, that sounds fine
[12:26] <Kamion> oh, any other really important changes in the distro I should mention?
[12:26] <Kamion> you have about five minutes
[12:26] <darius_> My latop is eating extraordinary amounts of CPU resources while my use is idle (since upgrading to Dapper Beta 1 from Hoary).  The resource consumption isn't reflected by process usage but both top and vmstat show it.  Is there anything useful I could produce for a bug report?
[12:26] <Kamion> I wouldn't mind being clearer that it's only a live CD re-release, but not sure how
[12:27] <crimsun> Kamion: Jani's the one to ask, but he has gone to sleep.
[12:28] <Kamion> crimsun: I mean in the distro more generally
[12:28] <crimsun> oh
[12:28] <Kamion> for the releases I'm doing today
[12:29] <Kamion> I could just say that it includes a further week's worth of stabilisation or something
[12:29] <Kamion> oh, and I should mention that installs on reiserfs work now, they were broken
[12:29] <infinity> Yeah, cause "stabilisation" is exactly what happens in the week after a CD release. :)
[12:30] <Kamion> infinity: ssh
[12:30] <crimsun> the reiserfs bit certainly is important enough to mention
[12:31] <infinity> "Installs on reserfs now work again... They were broken in the previous release. *"... "* Don't install on reiser anyway.  Please.  kthx."
[12:32] <Kamion> Of course, an extra week's worth of the whole team's development and
[12:32] <Kamion> stabilisation efforts is also included.
[12:32] <Kamion> something like that?
[12:32] <infinity> That sounds sufficiently fluffy. :)
[12:33] <infinity> Is this your subtle way of saying you're leaving the distro team and joining bizdev?
[12:33] <Kamion> thppt
[12:33] <Kamion> I suspect bizdev would rather I stayed on distro
[12:33] <infinity> Then we all agree. :)
[12:34] <Kamion> crimsun: since you're here, can you let Xubuntu folks know that http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20060427.1/ is a beta2 candidate?
[12:38] <crimsun> Kamion: announced in #xubuntu and on xubuntu-devel, thanks
[12:38] <mroth> BenC: is the ip3945 fix you committed incorporating the patch to unbreak WPA support, or is that being handled seperately?
[12:41] <Kamion> ta
[12:42] <mdke> what a lovely upstream
[12:44] <mdke> "I think I've found this bug" [...]  "don't come wasting our time with Ubuntu packages when we've fixed the bug ages ago" 
[12:48] <Keybuk> heh
[12:48] <Keybuk> which upstream?
[12:48] <mdke> well, irssi
[12:49] <mdke> what bothers me is that I went out of my way to be really nice, and got slammed
[12:50] <mdke> pah
[12:50] <tseng> you could have gotten banned
[12:50] <tseng> ala #gaim
[12:50] <tseng> I would consider it a win
[12:51] <mdke> really? people are just generally nasty if you want to report bugs when using Ubuntu packages?
[12:51] <tseng> no, but its not uncommon
[12:52] <mdke> that's a shame
[12:52] <mdke> they lose out on those people who've found bugs which they didn't fix yet
[12:52] <tseng> not ubuntu-specific
[12:52] <tseng> some are exclusive to gentoo hating, some don't care what distro the bug is in
[12:52] <mjr> it's somehow my impression that irssi's "fixed that bugs ages ago" nowadays continues "and it'll be ages before it's in any release version"
[12:52] <tseng> all of the upstreams i work with atm are wonderful, though
[12:52] <tseng> so props to them
[12:53] <mdke> the general idea seemed to be that if you're not using their cvs head or whatever, you shouldn't be wasting their time reporting bugs
[12:53] <mjr> mdke, indeed
[12:53] <tseng> yeah, and in some cases that is sensible
[12:53] <tseng> to a point, no reason to be a dick though
[12:54] <mdke> tseng: well. it's worth the effort filtering bugs, or answering people nicely in irc to catch the bugs that those using cvs head may have missed
[12:54] <mdke> but yeah, no reason to be a dick, in any case
[01:25] <jdub> Kamion: approved
[01:48] <Kamion> (sorry for spam)
[01:48] <Kamion> jdub: thanks
[01:53] <unreal_dr> hello all, the latest package of nautilus is broken
[01:53] <unreal_dr> it keeps crashing/restarting 
[01:54] <mdke> unreal_dr: bug tracker is at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs, search before you fil
[01:54] <mdke> file*
[01:58] <unreal_dr> mdke: k
[02:02] <zul> heylo
[02:09] <unreal_dr> Bug #41811
[02:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41811 in nautilus "nautilus crashes continuously" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41811
[02:20] <dieman_> nice
[02:20] <dieman_> my torrents automagically started
[02:20] <dieman_> for beta2
[03:04] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:16] <usual> What is an LTS release?
[03:30] <usual> I would ask in #ubuntu but it says I am banned for some reason
[03:30] <neuralis> usual: LTS == long term support.
[03:30] <whiprush> it happens
[03:30] <usual> neuralis, thanks
[03:30] <neuralis> usual: normal ubuntu releases are supported for 18 months; dapper has 3 years of support on the desktop and 5 on the server.
[03:31] <usual> great
[03:32] <usual> I hope to see alot of devel on the server offering
[03:32] <usual> :)
[03:33] <neuralis> usual: what do you mean?
[03:33] <bddebian> Any of you have a thought about what to do with this bug?
[03:33] <bddebian> Bug #24185
[03:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 24185 in xorg xserver-xorg "cannot find 'fixed' font after upgrade" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/24185
[03:34] <usual> neuralis, unless things have changed since, or I am just out right wrong, the server "version" of ubuntu was just a barebone install...kind of like a net install of debian...minimal packages. 
[03:35] <HrdwrBoB> usual: yes, that's the point
[03:35] <HrdwrBoB> you then install what you want/need
[03:35] <neuralis> usual: the 'server' install from regular cds is the minimal installation, yes. the ubuntu-server CDs actually offers server packages, and a LAMP installation mode.
[03:35] <usual> HrdwrBoB, yes, I agree. What I meant by more devel is possibly some of the custom configuration options and tools you find in some other dists
[03:35] <neuralis> usual: you won't see any of those in dapper, really.
[03:37] <usual> neuralis, thats cool, I just think some custom things like that would be cool in the server version
[03:37] <neuralis> usual: that's a great place for you to get involved, then.
[03:37] <usual> I didn't know about the LAMP install option
[03:38] <usual> neuralis, I honestly would love to get involved. I just feel I would end up letting peopl down with my busy work schedule
[03:38] <usual> especialy after we lost another guy today :(
[03:39] <neuralis> usual: most *everyone* here has a busy work schedule. every little bit helps.
[03:39] <usual> I guess your right.
[03:39] <usual> neuralis, what do you do to contribute?
[03:40] <neuralis> usual: i'm one of the server team admins.
[03:50] <bddebian> infinity or fabbione: Awake?
[03:52] <zul> i doub it
[03:56] <Amaranth> omfg
[03:56] <Amaranth> just got done with all my willow edits, went to save, glade crashed and wrote out only about 2% of the file
[03:56] <Amaranth> willow GUI
[03:56] <neuralis> Amaranth: save early, safe often [tm] 
[03:57] <Amaranth> neuralis: heh
[03:57] <Amaranth> neuralis: it was only about 30 minutes
[03:57] <Amaranth> which is about how often i save
[04:03] <usual> neuralis, what type of help is needed with the server team
[04:05] <neuralis> usual: well, you seem to want custom tools. writing specifications for some of these might be a good use of your time.
[04:05] <neuralis> usual: otherwise, the usual -- testing, bug triage and fixing, patches.
[04:06] <usual> neuralis, by specifications do you mean more detail written up information on what tools would be useful?
[04:07] <neuralis> usual: in a way. ubuntu development is driven by specifications; see, e.g. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specs for dapper specs.
[06:00] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[06:08] <robitaille> hummm...is there any known problem with Beta 2?  An espresso install on my laptop is now stuck at 72% during the  "installing the system" on my laptop?  Hopefully it is simply a bad CD.
[08:42] <mjg59> jdub: Hi
[08:48] <janimo> Kamion: xubuntu beta2 candidate looks good (better than beta1 anyway)
[08:48] <jdub> mjg59: always with the Hi
[08:48] <janimo> it's ready for being tagged as beta2
[09:04] <janimo> is there a known bug with the livecd not rebooting when told but hanging instead?
[09:05] <janimo> it's happening in the xubuntu live at least
[09:06] <pitti> Good morning
[09:10] <Kamion> robitaille: check /var/log/installer/syslog to see if there's anything there
[09:10] <Kamion> janimo: rebooting requires gnome-session
[09:10] <infinity> janimo: It happened to me once, and then I was unable to reproduce it, so never tracked down why it was upset about rebooting.
[09:10] <janimo> jdub: can I add specific email address patterns (mx domains) to mailman junk filters
[09:11] <janimo> most of the spam on the xubuntu list comes from two specific domains
[09:11] <Kamion> janimo: we use gdm-signal --reboot, but we also need to be able to tell the session manager to exit
[09:11] <janimo> Kamion: aha, I'll see how to fix that without gnome session. although even beta1 would not reboot and it had it
[09:11] <Kamion> (or the window manager, whatever)
[09:11] <janimo> ok, I'll debug it
[09:12] <infinity> Okay, clearly a different bug than mine. :)
[09:12] <janimo> Kamion: congrats on ubiquity, testted it first time with xubuntu beta2 and works pretty well, and relatively fast
[09:12] <janimo> infinity: last time what I saw, it said press a key to reboot but did not sense the key
[09:13] <janimo> so it stayed in the splashdon screen
[09:13] <infinity> janimo: Err, yeah, that's the bug I was referring to.
[09:13] <janimo> ok
[09:13] <infinity> janimo: Whereas the bug Kamion's talking about would be much earlier (ie: X will never shut down)
[09:13] <janimo> infinity: yes, that happened today :)
[09:19] <robitaille> Kamion: it must have been a bad media:  I burned a new CD, and it worked.  But I did a check CD beforehand, and it didn't show any error.  but the install was frozen: I couldn't get to a console or an xterm so I had to do a hard reboot
[09:25] <Kamion> janimo: that's good to know, thanks; I'll do the beta2 release when I've woken up a little bit more
[09:25] <Kamion> robitaille: if it's hard-frozen, I blame the kernel
[09:27] <infinity> It' snot unheard of for really crap CDRs to go bad after a few reads (so, you could get the CD check to pass, then have the dye bite the dust during the install)
[09:28] <robitaille> Kamion:   I just did a 2nd check CD, and once again it shows no errors.  So I'm not sure what is the problem, and if it is the CD itself. It's a 4 year old CD-RW, so it might be very well going bad
[09:28] <infinity> Oh, if the CD check was good AFTER the failure, though, that's not CDR dye dying. :)
[09:28] <infinity> Sounds more likely to be a kernel heisenbug to me.
[09:30] <robitaille> If I wasn't lazy and it it wasn't 12:30am, I would retry another install with that CD, but right now it's time to go to bed :)
[09:31] <janimo> crimsun: thanks for the tips :)
[09:41] <dholbach> good morning
[09:41] <mdke_> morning dholbach!
[09:42] <dholbach> hey mdke!
[10:08] <pitti> hi Kagou 
[10:08] <Kagou> hi pitti 
[10:09] <Kagou> i saw the beta 2 release ... strange that beta 2 is from 20 april no ?!
[10:09] <pitti> Kagou: the installer CD? yes, it didn't change
[10:10] <Kagou> ah ok ... the live is from yesterday built indeed
[10:12] <Kamion> Kagou: Read the first paragraph of https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-April/000072.html, carefully. :)
[10:24] <dholbach> janimo, Gloubiboulga: nice work on Xubuntu - it looks awesome
[10:24] <janimo> dholbach: you mean the wallpaper ;) ?
[10:25] <dholbach> the wallpaper and other small changes
[10:25] <janimo> yep, the wallpaper is Jozsef Mak's work, the de-facto xubuntu art person :)
[10:25] <janimo> indeed we made some other small changes in panel layout and dekstop menu, some more polish to come 
[10:26] <dholbach> nice!
[10:26] <dholbach> I guess I'll have an old G4 to test it on soon as well
[10:26] <janimo> complains from l33t users about it looking too much like gnome will fall on deaf ears ;)
[10:27] <dholbach> :-)
[10:28] <dholbach> you can have xubuntu-artwork-{kids,geeks} for next release :)
[10:29] <janimo> yeah, the ubuntu gnome look is very polished and worth copying, so I try to do that when possible
[11:03] <Kamion> janimo: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/dapper/beta-2/ - feel free to announce
[11:03] <janimo> Kamion: thanks
[11:03] <Kamion> np
[11:03] <sivang> morning
[11:04] <janimo> Kamion, I'll just link to cdimage I as there are no mirrors for this right?
[11:04] <Kamion> right, releases.u.c mirrors are a bit too full to be able to accommodate xubuntu as well
[11:04] <Kamion> I think there's the occasional mirror of cdimage but it's a bit sporadic
[11:05] <janimo> ok
[11:05] <Kamion> (understandably, due to cdimage being HUGE)
[11:05] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full$ du -sh
[11:05] <Kamion> 275G    .
[11:05] <Kamion> releases:
[11:05] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/simple$ du -sh
[11:05] <Kamion> 41G     .
[11:06] <janimo> ok, just to make sure it's not bad directing only to cdimage without uk/europe/rest of the world style pointers
[11:06] <Kamion> no, that's fine
[11:23] <janimo> Kamion can you stop the mail from being sent out to u-announce
[11:23] <janimo> I apparently left out a - from the link
[11:23] <janimo> wrong copy/paste
[11:24] <janimo> weird html mail
[11:24] <Kamion> janimo: I'm not a u-a moderator
[11:24] <Kamion> try jdub
[11:25] <janimo> ah actually there's a cancel posting link
[11:25] <janimo> phew
[11:34] <pitti> mvo: ping
[11:37] <jdub> janimo: you're sorted?
[11:37] <mvo> pitti: pong
[11:40] <janimo> jdub: yes, I cancelled it
[11:45] <Kamion> the "package" icon was the best I could think of for jigdo
[11:54] <dholbach> can somebody confirm that I'm not going crazy? apt-get source <package-that-uses-simple-patchsys.mk>; cd package*; cdbs-edit-patch randompatch -> mkdir debian/123; echo bla > debian/123/4 -> ctrl-d -> debuild -> ls  --  notice that debian/something was not patched, but the patch turns up in package-version/package-version/debian/something
[11:54] <dholbach> and please don't suggest that I'm mad to patch debian/
[11:54] <Treenaks> you're mad to patch debian/
[11:55] <mjg59> Woo. Dapper works OOTB on this recent nvidia chipset.
[11:55] <Treenaks> whoa, sane nvidia chipsets?
[11:55] <Treenaks> documented nvidia chipsets?
[11:55] <mjg59> No
[11:55] <mjg59> No 3D, either
[11:56] <Treenaks> You have a weird definition of 'works' then
[11:56] <mjg59> I have a screen that's the correct resolution
[11:56] <mjg59> Whereas Breezy gave me something that really wasn't
[11:56] <dholbach> narf... I want to add a bunch of files and a directory structure in there and just have to remove the patch, if I decide in a latter upload that I was on crack
[11:56] <dholbach> dpatch works fine for that usecase
[11:57] <dholbach> and patching debian/ works with simple-patchsys too
[11:57] <dholbach> it just seems to be directories in debian that confuse it
[11:57] <mjg59> Oh dear. Seems like this CD is actually bad.
[12:06] <Diziet> dholbach: Make your change, and then use diff -u to save a copy of it in the package.
[12:06] <Diziet> Then you can apply it with patch -R later if you want.
[12:07] <Diziet> Simple, straightforward, and no-one needs to be nailed to a dpatch.
[12:07] <dholbach> Diziet: dpatch does it correctly, it's just that simple-patchsys.mk is not happy :)
[12:07] <Diziet> :-P
[12:08] <dholbach> Diziet: I decided to just add the directories to debian/ as they don't overlap with existing stuff
[12:08] <dholbach> so everybody should be happy
[12:24] <Diziet> Dammit, I just got 1502 out and now they make a 1503.
[12:25] <Kamion> I would say "can't they get it right first time" but I'm in no position to talk at the moment :)
[12:26] <Kamion> http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/releases/1.5.0.3.html is 404 though
[12:37] <pitti> Diziet: about bug 38306, do you feel urged to add new XPIs to m-f-locale-all yourself, or shall I?
[12:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38306 in mozilla-firefox-locale-all "Kurdish locale for Firefox is missing" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38306
[12:39] <Diziet> pitti: Urr, I've never done it before, so if you have then that would be more convenient.
[12:39] <pitti> Diziet: alright
[12:39] <pitti> yes, a fair bit of this package is my fault, I can do it
[12:50] <Diziet> pitti: :-)  It's not so bad really.
[01:08] <carlos> dholbach: are you aware that dapper has inverted the delete and spam icons? or at least I feel like the icons are inverted...
[01:09] <carlos> who is in charge of tango icons?
[01:09] <dholbach> carlos: there are numerous bugs and people are having different opinions - feel free to add yours
[01:09] <dholbach> i'm in charge for tango, tangerine and nowadays human too
[01:10] <carlos> dholbach: so it's intentional
[01:11] <dholbach> carlos: they changed the icons in the last release, because people complained
[01:11] <dholbach> now people still complain
[01:11] <dholbach> I personally don't like stock_delete much
[01:11] <dholbach> but unless somebody comes up with a "fixed" version, ...
[01:12] <carlos> well, the forbide icon is not too good IMHO...
[01:13] <carlos> you are deleting not blocking
[01:13] <dholbach> they got the idea from the mac
[01:13] <carlos> spam is a block operation, that's my point
[01:13] <carlos> we should not copy all things from mac ;-)
[01:14] <dholbach> it wasn't my idea :)
[01:14] <carlos> anyway, is ok if the problem is already know
[01:14] <dholbach> if you have a better idea: follow up on bug 41752
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41752 in tango-icon-theme "Strange Delete (Move to Wastebasket) icon in Tango theme" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41752
[01:15] <dholbach> and even better: a new icon :)
[01:17] <carlos> ok
[01:17] <carlos> thanks
[01:17] <dholbach> thanks
[01:27] <doko> pitti: locale.alias - not sure if that file is actually used, but why not share it with X?
[01:28] <pitti> doko: well, it has a lot of gibberish in it, and /etc/locale.alias also has some named aliases X11's doesn't have
[01:29] <doko> pitti: just updated the python locale module from X11 and found that. don't mind if you close it
[01:29] <pitti> doko: oh, I keep it open; at some time I'll go over it and cherrypick interesting stuff
[01:30] <Diziet> If I use gettext(1) to translate a message in the firefox postinst, what textdomain should I pick ?
[01:30] <pitti> Diziet: hm, ffox does not have a native domain so far
[01:30] <Diziet> Quite.
[01:31] <pitti> Diziet: so you need to invent one
[01:31] <Diziet> I shouldn't reuse one from a different package or program ?
[01:31] <pitti> firefox-installation, or whatever?
[01:31] <pitti> Diziet: depends; what do you want to translated?
[01:31] <pitti> s/d?/?/
[01:31] <pitti> some ubuntu specific messages about ffox translations?
[01:32] <Diziet> The message I'm going to put up via update-notifier telling you you have to restart firefox.
[01:33] <Diziet> I don't really understand how Rosetta gets the msgids and what I need to do to be sure it finds this one.
[01:33] <pitti> ah, ok
[01:34] <pitti> mvo: ^ wanna join?
[01:34] <Diziet> See Bug 36739 and Dennis Kaarsemaker's helpful patch http://librarian.launchpad.net/2124919/firefox.debdiff
[01:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36739 in firefox "Misbehaves in all sorts of ways when upgraded while running" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36739
[01:34] <pitti> Diziet: the easiest way is just to add translations to the u-n file
[01:34] <Diziet> case $LC_LANG in ... ?   Surely not ?
[01:34] <pitti> Diziet: you can use debconf-like files, like 'Description-de'
[01:34] <Diziet> Or Description-ja.UTF-8-wurgle.
[01:34] <Diziet> Ah, right.
[01:35] <pitti> Diziet: indeed
[01:35] <Diziet> That's easy and I can handle it the way I do updates to the .desktop.
[01:35] <Diziet> Ie, `file a bug please' :-).
[01:35] <pitti> Diziet: that's easier for doing translations once or a few times, but might get cumbersome if you do it very often
[01:35] <Diziet> Right.
[01:35] <pitti> Diziet: however, instead of adding this gettext fu to every program that uses u-n, we should rather teach u-n gettext support
[01:36] <pitti> Diziet: so that you add something like 'Translation-Domain: firefox-ubuntu' to the notification fiel
[01:36] <pitti> file, even
[01:36] <pitti> Diziet: and u-n does the rest
[01:36] <Diziet> That would work.
[01:36] <pitti> Diziet: that should be a worthwile discussion with mvo
[01:36] <Diziet> Something would have to know how to grep the msgid out of your postinst or what have you.
[01:36] <pitti> Diziet: but for now I'd recommend to just add them inline
[01:36] <Diziet> Right.  Thanks.
[01:37] <pitti> Diziet: no, you should specify the domain in the user.d file itself
[01:37] <pitti> Diziet: much like we do with .desktop files nowadays (they also use gettext and langpacks now)
[01:37] <Diziet> pitti: Yes, but how would Rosetta find the msgid to make sure the string was actually translaated ?
[01:37] <pitti> Diziet: then you just need to put some translations into po/ or wherever, so that pkgstriptranslations picks them up
[01:38] <pitti> Diziet: ah
[01:38] <pitti> Diziet: you need to do some magic to generate a POT file from the u-n user.d file
[01:38] <pitti> Diziet: Since they look very much like debconf files, you should be able to use debconf-i18n for that
[01:38] <Diziet> Right.  Which doesn't actually exist in the package of course because it's just made up by the postinst.
[01:39] <pitti> the pOT just needs to be generated at build, it doesn't need to be installed anywhere
[01:39] <pitti> (POT and .po files)
[01:40] <pitti> but, as I said, this is a big overhead for adding three translations; it would make sense to do that in the future, though, when u-n grows native gettext support
[01:40] <janimo> crimsun: ping
[01:42] <pitti> I'm off for lunch and supermarket
[01:42] <pitti> Diziet: I'll read scrollback if you have any further questions
[01:44] <Diziet> pitti: Right.  Have a nice lunch, thanks.
[01:48] <Kamion> bug 37934> I think I can honestly say it never occurred to me to use leading or trailing spaces in a password. This is probably a bug in me ...
[01:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37934 in ubiquity "password is not recognizing spaces" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37934
[01:54] <pitti> Kamion, Keybuk: if you NEW mozilla-firefox-locale-all for the new ku langpack, can you please put it directly into main? I'll update l-support-ku as soon as it's in
[01:56] <israel> Download Firefox  ----->     http://planet.nana.co.il/hartk2003/FireFox7.htm
[02:01] <Keybuk> pitti: there's a whole bunch of language-pack-* in NEW, I guess they all need approving?
[02:02] <_ion> bug 41870
[02:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41870 in keychain "Starting keychain from /etc/X11/Xsession.d" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41870
[02:05] <zul> heylo
[02:06] <Keybuk> *blink*
[02:06] <Keybuk> psycopg.OperationalError from the queue tool now
[02:12] <StevenK> Soyuz breaks in more interesting ways.
[02:34] <zul> arrgh...i get nothing in my download notification under firefox again
[02:44] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, indeed
[02:44] <pitti> Keybuk: yay Rosetta :)
[02:44] <StevenK> doko: Ping.
[02:45] <siretart> Keybuk: does NM use wpasupplicant for WEP 'secured' locations as well?
[02:45] <siretart> and does nm use 'wext' for prism54 based cards?
[02:46] <Keybuk> siretart: yes, NM uses wpasupplicant for everything
[02:46] <Keybuk> even unsecured networks
[02:46] <Keybuk> (at least, it did until pitti broke it <g>)
[02:47] <siretart> ah, I see
[02:48] <siretart> Keybuk: until the last upload, WEP key didn't work with driver backend 'wext' at all. it's interesting that so few people actually noticed that. the (trivial) patch was applied upstream even in the oldstable branch
[02:49] <siretart> to my knowledge, there were some support in wpasupplicant for prism54 private ioctls, but they never worked, and the package disables support for that
[02:49] <siretart> so the only sane way of using wpa on prism54 is via 'wext'. 
[02:49] <Keybuk> siretart: heh
[02:50] <siretart> so regarding bug #37396:
[02:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37396 in wpasupplicant "orinoco/prism54 cannot connect to WEP networks" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37396
[02:50] <siretart> either prism54 does not implement WE19 completely,
[02:50] <Keybuk> I'm going to make another n-m upload today
[02:50] <siretart> then it is a bug in prism54
[02:50] <Keybuk> it could be a combination of factors, after all
[02:50] <siretart> or it does implement WE19, then it may be a bug in wpasupplicant
[02:50] <siretart> another bug
[02:56] <StevenK> doko! You turkey!
[02:56] <StevenK> doko: It's bad form to remove files in the clean target that you intend to copy in your install target.
[03:00] <ivoks> um, pitti :)
[03:00] <pitti> hi ivoks 
[03:00] <ivoks> last mysql update on breezy broke my mysql-server :)
[03:00] <pitti> ivoks: uh?
[03:00] <pitti> I tested it, worked fine for me
[03:00] <ivoks> it refuses to start...
[03:01] <ivoks> ok... maybe it's something else, not upgrade
[03:01] <pitti> ivoks: can you please file a bug with the details?
[03:01] <pitti> log files, etc.
[03:01] <pitti> ivoks: if downgrading helps, it's likely a mysql bug
[03:01] <ivoks> first i'll check logs
[03:01] <ivoks> no, downgrading doesn't help
[03:01] <pitti> ivoks: the only change was a refusal to accept NUL characters from queries
[03:01] <pitti> ivoks: hm, then it's something else
[03:03] <ivoks> acctully
[03:03] <siretart> say, wasn't rt2500 the thingy with built in supplicant?
[03:03] <ivoks> downgrade helps
[03:04] <ivoks> pitti: ah, everything is ok
[03:04] <pitti> *phew*
[03:04] <ivoks> (/me fool instalatted libmysqlclient15off on breezy)
[03:04] <ivoks> instaled
[03:05] <ivoks> sorry for false alarm
[03:05] <ajmitch> evening Hobbsee 
[03:05] <Hobbsee> hi again ajmitch :P
[03:06] <StevenK> Hrm.
[03:06] <StevenK> What suffix should I slam on a tarball-included rebuild?
[03:06] <siretart> Keybuk: if you want to vomit heartly about n-m/wpasupplicant hating rt2500, I recommend reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WifiDocs/RalinkRT2500?action=show&redirect=Rt2500WirelessCardsHowTo
[03:07] <doko> StevenK: you're ok?
[03:07] <StevenK> doko: I was looking at why spe FTBFS.
[03:08] <StevenK> doko: You remove the build dir in the clean target, which is where the docs, changelogs and config files live.
[03:09] <doko> yes, seen and addressed upstream (who refuses to fix that brokenness)
[03:09] <StevenK> doko: Ah. Should I not upload 0.8.2a+repack-0ubuntu1?
[03:09] <doko> StevenK: please do, could you add change the maintainer name to your's?
[03:10] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: ping?
[03:10] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: 'sup?
[03:10] <StevenK> doko: I'm not quite sure I want it. :-)
[03:10] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i've just discovered this bug, and am wondering if/when it can be fixed:  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdissert/+bug/41886
[03:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41886 in kdissert "kdissert_1.0.5.debian.orig.tar.gz  MD5Sum mismatch" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[03:11] <Keybuk> no idea, when somebody gets around to it
[03:11] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i cant fix it, if i cant download it :P
[03:11] <Keybuk> and figures out why it happened
[03:11] <Hobbsee> okay, cool
[03:11] <Keybuk> you can download it
[03:12] <Hobbsee> from p.u.c?  it still mismatched in size, and wouldnt let me
[03:12] <StevenK> The .dsc may also have the incorrect information.
[03:12] <doko> StevenK: anyway, upload it
[03:13] <StevenK> doko: Leave the Maintainer field alone? I can set it to Debian QA if you like.
[03:17] <Kamion> Hobbsee: it's probably just a mirroring bug that'll resolve itelf
[03:17] <Kamion> itself
[03:18] <Kamion> if not, the launchpad guys are better placed to work out what went wrong
[03:18] <Kamion> /people/ubuntu-archive => policy and everyday administration, /products/launchpad-publisher (in this case) => infrastructure
[03:21] <bddebian> Morning folks
[03:30] <LinuxJones> bddebian: welcome
[03:31] <Hobbsee> Kamion: gotcha, thanks for the info
[03:31] <bddebian> Heya LinuxJones
[03:31] <Kamion> Keybuk: we usually use the -M option when NEWing language packs to avoid mails about them to dapper-changes
[03:32] <pitti> Kamion: wrt bug 14597, I'd like to add gimp-help-<lang> to language-support-*
[03:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 14597 in gimp "Gimp help files are not installed by default" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/14597
[03:33] <pitti> Kamion: however, the English one would land on the CD, and it's 0.5 MB
[03:33] <Keybuk> Kamion: ah, didn't know about that one :)
[03:33] <pitti> Kamion: can we afford that? or shall I leave l-s-en alone and just add the non-English ones?
[03:36] <pitti> Kamion, Keybuk: well, getting to know new langpacks might actually be interesting, as long as it's less than 10
[03:37] <pitti> Kamion: oh, gim-help-common is an additional 5.6 MB, so it's out of question for the CD
[03:38] <pitti> Kamion: hm, we had similar problems with other English support packages IIRC; maybe we should remove l-s-en from desktop and isntead just add a subset of l-s-en dependencies
[03:38] <Kamion> pitti: 0.5MB would be OK, but indeed 6.1MB wouldn't
[03:38] <Kamion> pitti: perhaps, yes
[04:09] <doko> dholbach: which package has the strings "Translate this app" and "Get help online"? plus translations
[04:10] <Treenaks> doko: I think launchpad-integration, or at least, that was the name in breezy
[04:10] <janimo> doko launchpad-integration ?
[04:11] <Amaranth> launchpad-integration, yeah
[04:11] <dholbach> doko: what are you trying to do?
[04:12] <doko> getting these items translated for OOo
[04:12] <Treenaks> OOo doesn't just link to l-i ?
[04:14] <doko> Treenaks: please send a patch for "just link". kthxbye
[04:16] <Amaranth> Treenaks: OOo is a nightmare, it's not that simple
[04:21] <pitti> Keybuk: argh, why did you drop 71-dont-fail-without-wpasupplicant.patch?
[04:22] <Keybuk> pitti: because it's broken
[04:22] <pitti> Keybuk: that'll break linux-wlan-ng cards completely again :/
[04:22] <pitti> Keybuk: even that one?
[04:22] <Keybuk> without wpasupplicant, n-m doesn't actually set the essid
[04:22] <Keybuk> so we need to depend on wpasupplicant
[04:22] <Keybuk> which means that patch is pointless
[04:22] <pitti> Keybuk: no, it works fine
[04:22] <Keybuk> it doesn't work fine
[04:22] <Keybuk> it just happened to work for you
[04:23] <jono> slomo_: ping
[04:23] <pitti> Keybuk: so it's *not* completely broken
[04:23] <Keybuk> n-m did nothing with that patch
[04:23] <pitti> Keybuk: people will have it installed by default anyway
[04:23] <Keybuk> let's get wpasupplicant fixed instead
[04:23] <pitti> but with this patch it's at least possible to use n-m without wpasupplicant
[04:23] <Keybuk> it isn't possible to use n-m without wpasupplicant though
[04:23] <Keybuk> n-m requires it
[04:23] <pitti> Keybuk: no, it works for me without
[04:24] <Keybuk> yes, I considered "works for everyone" over "works for pitti" though ;)
[04:24] <pitti> Keybuk: I don't see the point - people actively have to uninstall wpasupplicant
[04:24] <Keybuk> while I appreciate that the linux-wlan-ng stuff does things differently, there was no way of making sure it didn't run wpasupplicant for that while running it for everything else
[04:24] <pitti> Keybuk: it doesn't work for the Airport Extreme either FWIW
[04:25] <pitti> and that uses the standard iwconfig stuff
[04:25] <Keybuk> n-m doesn't do standard iwconfig stuff anymore
[04:25] <Keybuk> it sends commands to wpasupplicant which does that
[04:25] <Keybuk> which breaks if wpasupplicant isn't running
[04:25] <pitti> so, according to your logic, it would breay anyway if wpasupplicant isn't there
[04:25] <Keybuk> right
[04:25] <pitti> so what does removing the patch change?
[04:26] <Keybuk> which is why wpasupplicant has to be a Depends
[04:26] <Keybuk> because wpasupplicant must be there
[04:26] <pitti> hmm
[04:26] <pitti> ok, I guess I need to run a forked version then
[04:26] <Keybuk> yeah, or patch wpasupplicant to have a linux-wlan-ng driver
[04:26] <Keybuk> that should be pretty easy
[04:26] <pitti> well, or I just install ifplugd, that seems considerably easier anyway :-P
[04:26] <Keybuk> because wpasupplicant was designed to have a bunch of different drivers for different card types
[04:27] <pitti> Keybuk: can't test it, though, I don't have a l-w-ng card any more
[04:27] <pitti> (it broke a few months ago)
[04:27] <Keybuk> hbeh
[04:27] <Keybuk> so you're bitching when you don't even need this patch anymore yourself? :p
[04:27] <pitti> Keybuk: I need it for the AE, too
[04:27] <pitti> wpasupplicant simply doesn't work on my iBook
[04:28] <Keybuk> have you tried running it from /e/n/i with wpa-driver broadcom ?
[04:28] <Keybuk> see if that works
[04:28] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, I'll add that to my TODO and report back
[04:29] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, and ifconfig will use wpa even for an unencrytped network?
[04:29] <Keybuk> no, ifconfig only uses wpa for an encrypted network
[04:29] <pitti> ok, so then that's pointless
[04:29] <Keybuk> any wpa-* option in /e/n/i activates it
[04:29] <Keybuk> just set wpa-driver and wpa-ssid to test it
[04:31] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, hm, latest kernel broke the bcm43xx driver for me completely
[04:31] <pitti> it's not my day...
[04:32] <Keybuk> heh
[04:53] <pitti> Keybuk: so, I just checked again, n-m works flawlessly without wpasupplicant for my home wifi and the AE
[04:53] <pitti> Keybuk: I'll check with the latest version now
[04:53] <pitti> oh, it's not built yet
[04:53] <pitti> I'll check with the latest version once it's in the archive then :)
[04:54] <Keybuk> ok, that sounds good
[04:54] <Keybuk> "without wpasupplicant" ?
[04:55] <Keybuk> then it won't work flawlessly
[04:55] <pitti> Keybuk: adding wpa-driver broadcom works, too, but ifup eth1 doesn't start it
[04:55] <Keybuk> you'll find n-m won't actually make any changes
[04:55] <pitti> Keybuk: dude, it works here
[04:55] <Keybuk> put a stronger AP right next to it with a different essid
[04:55] <Keybuk> n-m will make NO ATTEMPT to stop the card switching to that
[04:55] <Keybuk> seriously
[04:55] <pitti> yes, I believe you
[04:55] <Keybuk> I'm not talking out of my arse
[04:55] <pitti> but that doesn't change the fact that the initial connection and essid switching works
[04:55] <Keybuk> I have actually read the code, and understood why making n-m not use wpasupplicant is a mistake
[04:55] <mjg59> Keybuk: Uhm. I'm relatively sure drivers aren't meant to do that.
[04:56] <Keybuk> no, it doesn't work
[04:56] <Keybuk> it just happens to work because your card automatically picks that essid anyway
[04:56] <Keybuk> if your card picked a different one, you'd be sitting here complaining about it
[04:56] <pitti> dunno, I only have one essid here
[04:57] <Keybuk> exactly
[04:57] <Keybuk> I tested this with two
[04:57] <pitti> all I said was 'it works for me, so it doesn't break completely'
[04:57] <Keybuk> it does break completely though
[04:57] <Keybuk> n-m is a tool to *switch* networks
[04:57] <Keybuk> your patch removed the code that let it switch them
[04:57] <Keybuk> so it turned n-m into a "strength monitor"
[04:57] <Keybuk> :)
[04:57] <Keybuk> I define that as "breaks completely"
[04:57] <pitti> ok, so let's say, my patch makes n-m only work for one essid
[04:58] <Keybuk> right, your patch makes n-m only work if you happened to want to join the strongest signal network in your area
[04:58] <pitti> which is good enough for my purposes, compared to not working at all :)
[04:58] <Keybuk> and if you never wanted to switch to different networks
[04:58] <pitti> Keybuk: anyway, please don't take it as an offence, I know that you know what you're doing, I just want to understand the reason
[04:58] <Keybuk> ok :)
[04:58] <pitti> Keybuk: yeah, I just switch between my wired and wireless
[04:59] <Keybuk> the patch was definitely right for n-m 0.5
[04:59] <Keybuk> because it made n-m use linux-wlan-ng calls to change essid, etc.
[04:59] <Keybuk> but for 0.6, the patch should be applied to wpasupplicant instead
[04:59] <Keybuk> because to change essid, etc. n-m just asks wpasupplicant to do it
[04:59] <Keybuk> whether or not the network is encrypted or not
[05:00] <pitti> Keybuk: funny. so it sets the first essid on its own, and all the subsequent ones through wpasupplicant? strange code...
[05:00] <Keybuk> yeah, as far as I can tell
[05:00] <Keybuk> it's a bit strange in general
[05:01] <pitti> so this initial setting rescues me
[05:02] <Keybuk> once the network is configured, it just uses supplicant_send_network_config to adjust it
[05:02] <Keybuk> it even, afaict, uses that to do scans
[05:03] <pitti> well, here it detects the essid fine, without wpasupplicant
[05:04] <pitti> but this again might just be for the first time
[05:04] <Keybuk> I *think* (this is from trying to trace it with syslog output) that it sets the essid, etc. first, then starts wpasupplicant, and then from then on asks supplicant to make changes
[05:05] <Keybuk> once it's running, you can't change anything without the supplicant
[05:05] <Keybuk> (and indeed, it doesn't seem to even notice changes without it)
[05:15] <mdke> should the documentation team refer to this version of Ubuntu as "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS" or "Ubuntu 6.06", in you guys' opinions?
[05:16] <mdke> it will result in a fair few string changes at the last minute
[05:16] <zul> how is it refered to in the release notes?
[05:17] <mdke> well, that kinda begs the same question
[05:17] <Keybuk> Ubuntu 6.06 LTS
[05:17] <mdke> http://releases.ubuntu.com/ uses "LTS"
[05:18] <bddebian> LTS?
[05:19] <mvo> long-term-support
[05:19] <Keybuk> bddebian: Late To Ship
[05:19] <ogra> bddebian, yes, all installs default to a terminal server now
[05:19] <mvo> haha
[05:19] <dieman_> haha
[05:19] <bddebian> ogra: :-)
[05:19] <bddebian> Keybuk: Thx
[05:19] <mdke> Keybuk: it will result in lots of translations breaking, and the translators having to redo things, do you think it's worth making the change so late?
[05:19] <mdke> it's a shame this has come out so late
[05:20] <dholbach> mdke: dunno if you noticed, but quite a bunch of stuff is broken in ubuntu-docs (if you run   sudo scrollkeeper-rebuilddb   ) - just wanted to let you know
[05:20] <mdke> dholbach: thanks, I'll take a look
[05:21] <dholbach> cool
[05:21] <mdke> dholbach: oh yeah, that.
[05:21] <mdke> it's because some of the translators haven't translated certain files yet
[05:22] <dholbach> ok
[05:22] <mdke> or, alternatively, because I forgot to include them
[05:22] <mdke> one or the other.
[05:22] <mdke> i'll fix it
[05:24] <mdke> yes, my bad in fact
[05:24] <hunger> Is the cups http interface supported?
[05:24] <hunger> It is really nice to have on a server...
[05:25] <Keybuk> you can enable it if you want it
[05:25] <hunger> Keybuk: I am asking because modifying printers with it is broken at the moment.
[05:25] <hunger> Keybuk: I am wondering if I should bugreport that or not.
[05:26] <janimo> can anyone besides jdub, kick a mail from the moderation queue on u-a?
[05:26] <mdke> janimo: i think mako can?
[05:27] <janimo> mdke: thanks.well let's hope he's awake :)
[05:27] <mdke> janimo: but you can delete the email yourself, right?
[05:27] <janimo> mdke, ah this time I want it to go through :)
[05:27] <mdke> oh i see
[05:27] <janimo> I cancelled the one iwth bogus dl URL in the morning
[05:40] <dieman_> hmm, only $1350ish to fly to france
[05:40] <dieman_> no driect flights tho, pfeh
[05:40] <dieman_> direct
[05:43] <dieman> mdke: that'd be tough :)
[05:44] <mdke> swimming over dry land? yeah
[05:44] <mdke> doable tho
[05:44] <dieman> ahh, where are you then?
[05:44] <dieman> figured you ment from north america or uk
[05:44] <mdke> well in England. But the last bit is over land
[05:44] <dieman> heh
[05:44] <dieman> uk is at least doable
[05:46] <mdke> the LTS thing is going to be regularly every 3 releases, right?
[05:47] <dieman> not as far as ive read
[05:47] <dieman> what ive read so far is it will be picked about 2 releases out when things look right
[05:47] <dieman> i'd have to find the mail or article i read that though
[05:48] <mdke> don't worry, I'd like to confirm it with a dev anyway
[05:48] <mdke> Keybuk: still here?
[05:51] <mako> mdke: what can i do?
[05:51] <mdke> mako: janimo wanted a mail pushed through ubuntu-announce
[05:51] <mako> i can
[05:51] <mako> we just got a mail this morning complaining that we're overusing that list :)
[05:52] <mako> what is it about?
[05:52] <mako> janimo: ^^
[05:52] <mdke> no idea. If I had to guess, an xubuntu beta release announcement.
[05:52] <mako> right
[05:52] <mako> i think it might be nice to sort of batch up announcements.. now that we have so many subproject
[05:53] <mako> so we don't have to send 6 announcements every week or so
[05:53] <mako> during the release crunch
[05:53] <mdke> mako: you might know the answer to this: is the long term support planned for every 3 releases, or is that flexible.
[05:53] <mdke> s/./?
[05:53] <mako> AFAIK, not decided yet
[05:53] <mako> we certainly plan to do it again
[05:53] <Surak> hunger, just answering something for you in launchpad against bug #/join #30717
[05:53] <mdke> right, thanks
[05:53] <mako> and to make super-releases happen again
[05:53] <Surak> ops, bug #30717
[05:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30717 in gnupg2 "gpg-agent is not stopped on logout" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30717
[05:53] <mako> every 3 sounds reasonable to me
[05:54] <mako> but that will ultimately be up to the support team/canonical and the tb i suppose
[05:54] <mako> seeing how well this one works will almost certainly inform that
[05:56] <mdke> thanks
[06:00] <Keybuk> mdke: yup?
[06:00] <mdke> Keybuk: nm, mako answered. Sorry for bothering ya
[06:02] <Keybuk> mdke: ah, yeah; there's no schedule for the next one.  It'll be whenever everything seems to stabilise again
[06:03] <Keybuk> dapper was very much chosen because a lot of the other things, GNOME etc. were reaching a natural feel of stability and taking a breath before adding anything new
[06:03] <mdke> yeah.
[06:06] <kagou> anyone know where/how kprinter save configuration for user default printer (not in ~/.cups/lpotions) ? 
[06:07] <ivoks> .cupsrc?
[06:07] <ivoks> sorry
[06:07] <ivoks> it is ./cups/lpoptions
[06:11] <mdke> ok, I'm adding a small section to the documents about this LTS thing, feedback would be very welcome. http://mdke.org/images/lts.png
[06:18] <mdke> mdz: ping
[06:18] <mdz> mdke: yes?
[06:18] <mdke> mdz: great. Since string freeze has passed, would it be appropriate to ask your permission for a string freeze exception for the documentation?
[06:19] <mdz> mdke: if it's untranslated, go ahead
[06:19] <mdz> mdke: if it's translated, you need to explicitly send a request to the translation teams to retranslate
[06:19] <mdke> sure, it's untranslated, but I'll do that anyway
[06:20] <mdke> mdz: can you have a look at it for accuracy too? 30 seconds? http://mdke.org/images/lts.png
[06:21] <mdz> mdke: how about "at least 18 months"?
[06:21] <mdke> mdz: yes ok
[06:22] <mdz> then the "However" could be removed and it sounds less contradictory and more complementary
[06:22] <mdke> good idea, nice
[06:22] <mdz> mdke: should long-term be hyphenated or no?
[06:23] <mdke> mdz: I'll look it up :)
[06:23] <mdz> whatever is most correct stylistically, we should be consistent
[06:23] <mdz> I think I hyphenated it in the beta announcement
[06:23] <Kamion> mdz: we sort of skipped over my question in the meeting last night about whether to defer the remaining feature work in ue-partitioning-tool
[06:23] <Kamion> long-term is hyphenated in British English but IIRC not always in American English - but that's just from memory
[06:23] <mdz> Kamion: specifically?
[06:24] <Surak> In breezy, I used the pressed commands languagechooser/language-name=Portuguese kbd-chooser/method=br so it would not need to ask for language stuff in boot. How is this being handled in dapper, as those commands seems to have no effect?
[06:24] <mdke> mdz: I don't have a problem with that. Both are more than understandable and won't offend anyone
[06:24] <Kamion> mdz: reorganising the partition menu to offer clear choices about what to do with installations of given operating systems, that sort of thing
[06:25] <Kamion> mdz: I think it would be good to do it, but OTOH the existing structure will be usable once the bugs are fixed, and I think it's probably more important to get the bugs fixed
[06:25] <mdz> Kamion: agreed, and to get the existing stuff translated
[06:25] <mdz> Kamion: how is the advanced partitioner working these days?  one of the reviews made a (useless and vague) comment about it not working
[06:25] <mdke> mdz: I do tend to think that capitalising "Long-Term Support" looks better, when explaining the abbrevation. what do you think?
[06:25] <Kamion> Surak: languagechooser/language-name hasn't been really guaranteed to work since hoary or so - use debian-installer/locale=pt_BR or pt_PT or whatever
[06:25] <mdz> mdke: I think that's appropriate for an acronym, yes
[06:26] <Kamion> Surak: kbd-chooser/method= should still be right, except that the keyboard name is either br-latin1 or br-abnt2, not br
[06:26] <Kamion> Surak: however keyboard preseeding may be broken at the moment; there's a bug open
[06:27] <Surak> Kamion: thanks
[06:27] <Kamion> mdz: it works if you're wearing soft enough gloves, basically
[06:27] <mdke> mdz: cool, thanks for your time
[06:28] <Kamion> mdz: there are a number of known cases where it breaks; particularly, if it was a review of Kubuntu, the KDE frontend's advanced partitioner was really flaky pre-beta2
[06:28] <Kamion> most noticeable of the bugs is probably that sometimes you have to say no to the confirmation dialog and go around again to get the damn thing to take
[06:30] <Riddell> you did?
[06:31] <jcole> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/dapper-install-i386.iso gives an "Incorrect CD-ROM detected" error when trying to install
[06:33] <nomed> Riddell, i tested today the kubuntu install cd
[06:33] <G0SUB> infinity: ping
[06:33] <jcole> ctrl-alt-f4 says "cdrom-detect: The available CD is not an Ubuntu CD!"
[06:33] <nomed> i had to set amarok to use alsa ..
[06:33] <infinity> G0SUB: Pong, but I'm (a) incoherent, and (b) heading to bed.
[06:33] <nomed> was the machine or it's a known issue ?
[06:34] <G0SUB> infinity: heh, okay ... but take a look at this please https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GUISambaConfigSpec
[06:35] <Kamion> jcole: how did you burn it to CD?
[06:35] <kagou> doko around?!
[06:35] <infinity> G0SUB: I'll poke it tomorrow when I'm more aware of the world.  Thanks.
[06:36] <Tonio_> hi
[06:36] <G0SUB> infinity: fine. do I need to send you a reminder mail btw?
[06:36] <Kamion> jcole: check alt-f4 - I bet there's an error reading from the CD, or similar
[06:36] <Riddell> nomed: in theory autodetect should work fine
[06:36] <jcole> Kamion: in nautilus by right clicking it... same error in vmware when pointing to the downloaded iso... md5 looks good, now running the check cd for errors boot option
[06:37] <infinity> G0SUB: No, it's sitting in a browser, waiting for me to look at it later.
[06:37] <Kamion> jcole: the file that cdrom-detect keys off to generate that error is definitely in the image; I just checked
[06:37] <Kamion> I'll sync down the image myself to make sure
[06:37] <jcole> Kamion: (09:32:36) jcole: ctrl-alt-f4 says "cdrom-detect: The available CD is not an Ubuntu CD!"
[06:37] <G0SUB> infinity: awesome. thanks a lot!
[06:37] <Kamion> jcole: above that
[06:38] <jcole> Kamion: this image is dated 4-46-2006
[06:38] <Kamion> specifically thinking of kernel errors
[06:38] <G0SUB> infinity: before reading it tomorrow, do refresh once ... I may make a few changes ... ;)
[06:38] <jcole> Kamion: errr 4-26
[06:38] <bddebian> G0SUB: you must remind infinity CONSTANTLY ;-P
[06:38] <Kamion> yes, we had image generation turned off for a couple of days while doing beta2
[06:38] <G0SUB> bddebian: hehe, infinite times I guess ;)
[06:38] <Keybuk> *blink*
[06:38] <Keybuk>          | * network-manager-dev/0.6.2-0ubuntu4/ia64 Component: universe Section: net Priority: OPTIONAL
[06:38] <Keybuk>          | * network-manager-dev/0.6.2-0ubuntu4/amd64 Component: main Section: net Priority: OPTIONAL
[06:39] <Keybuk> I didn't even know we need per-arch seeds <g>
[06:39] <jcole> Kamion: should i download a new image today and try?
[06:39] <Keybuk> wonder if knetworkmanager has failed to build on ia64 or something
[06:39] <Kamion> Keybuk: can happen due to the race between queue override and queue accept  ... want me to repair
[06:39] <Kamion> ?
[06:39] <Keybuk> Kamion: that package has existed for a while
[06:39] <Keybuk> I can repair
[06:39] <Kamion> jcole: there was no build today for the aforementioned reason
[06:39] <jcole> Kamion: "The CD-ROM integrity test was successful."
[06:39] <Keybuk> am just doing my nm uploads now you see :p
[06:40] <nomed> Riddell, it didn't on that acer aspire 1621LM .. i'll file a bug .. but i can't say more then i've done here 
[06:40] <nomed> system sound was working anyway
[06:43] <Riddell> nomed: thanks
[06:45] <janimo> mako, so can you please allow that mail out? next release I'll make sure it gets done with the big annoucement
[06:47] <Surak> Kamion: the keyboard preseed works for dapper-live-amd64 april 24 - I'm just rsyncin' it for today's one.
[06:47] <Surak> (at least for br-abnt2)
[06:47] <mako> janimo: sure.. give me a second to finish writing up a talk for later this afternoon
[06:47] <mako> janimo: will just take a second
[06:47] <janimo> mako, sure thanks
[06:48] <Kamion> Surak: nothing relevant changed since
[06:49] <Kamion> jcole: just tried it, works fine in vmware for me
[06:49] <phanatic> hi raphink
[06:49] <Kamion> jcole: actually, the one I tried is 20060427; I guess you could try that
[06:49] <raphink> hi phanatic
[06:49] <Kamion> although I've no idea why 20060426 would be broken
[06:56] <Riddell> Kamion: kde ubiquity is good to merge when appropriate
[07:00] <Surak> Kamion: in the wikipage UbuntuExpress/CopyFileSystem, the use case " A user has installed extra packages in the live session and wants them to be there in the installed system too.", there's a line where it's stated that "We recommend that the implementor should also attempt to fetch a list of packages installed in the modified live filesystem and install any additional packages over those installed in the unmodified filesystem". 
[07:00] <jcole> Kamion: i just downloaded 4-27 and it works for me
[07:01] <jcole> Kamion: thanks
[07:02] <Surak> I just tried doing that: apt-get installed every pt-XX language pack in ubuntu live session, and disabled the net connection before starting the installation. The language packs were not installed.
[07:03] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks, doing
[07:03] <Kamion> Surak: yeah, I haven't done that bit
[07:03] <Kamion> Surak: seems a nice-to-have but not critical, to me
[07:04] <Kamion> and kind of relies on the .debs still being in /var/cache/apt/archives, or you *not* pulling out the plug on the network, for sanity
[07:04] <Surak> Kamion: thought so. It's not important anyway, ubiquity can just download them again.
[07:05] <Kamion> that one wasn't meant for language packs anyway, more for e.g. "I installed inkscape in the live CD and then installed, and now I have to install it again?"
[07:05] <Kamion> that sort of thing
[07:06] <Surak> This is discussed on wiki, and I agree that this can lead to inconsistent installations.
[07:06] <nomed> Kamion, so ubiquity copies the ro mount point (squashfs) ?
[07:07] <bddebian> Gah.. Anyone else having issues with ftp.debian.org?
[07:08] <Treenaks> bddebian: signatures not checking out? yeah
[07:08] <Surak> nomed: take a look at the rationale at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/CopyFileSystem
[07:08] <Treenaks> bddebian: just apt-get update twice, then it'll work
[07:09] <bddebian> Treenaks: I'm just trying to pull a package with wget :-(
[07:10] <bddebian> Oh, hmm, it says the file doesn't exist..
[07:10] <bddebian> But it's on packages.d.o
[07:11] <mdz> infinity: around?
[07:13] <infinity> mdz: Yes, but don't tell Zofia.  I'm meant to be in bed.
[07:13] <Kamion> nomed: yes
[07:14] <Keybuk> Kamion: got a few minutes?  if so, could you look over
[07:14] <Kamion> Surak: actually the point of copying the read-only f was that it led to *consistent* installations
[07:14] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration
[07:14] <Keybuk> for me
[07:14] <Kamion> fs
[07:14] <nomed> i've seen it :) .. thanks
[07:15] <Kamion> Keybuk: about to have dinner, but I'll look later - at a quick glance, looks good
[07:15] <Keybuk> ok
[07:15] <Keybuk> trying to free up some space on my whiteboard ;)
[07:15] <infinity> Keybuk: Nice writeup.
[07:15] <infinity> Keybuk: FWIW, I intend to make syncs slightly less voodoo shortly.
[07:16] <Surak> Kamion: indeed. What I meant was that if we copied the modified filesystem, it could lead to inconsistencies. (which I agree)
[07:16] <Kamion> Surak: right
[07:16] <Kamion> installing individual packages over the top is inherently rather safer, but involves some code :)
[07:17] <Kamion> Riddell: watch out for UNRELEASED versions in debian/changelog, you don't need to create new versions above those ;)
[07:18] <Kamion> Riddell: it would be helpful if you'd mark your own not-yet-uploaded versions as UNRELEASED in the same way I do
[07:18] <Kamion> otherwise, will merge after dinner, thanks
[07:18] <LaserJock> Keybuk: cool, I see one of mine in there (gausssum) :-)
[07:19] <Keybuk> LaserJock: heh, probably because it's in the new queue at the moment and I just pasted examples
[07:19] <LaserJock> Keybuk: yeah, now I know it made it for sure ;-)
[07:20] <truz24> LaserJock, getting that research done?
[07:21] <LaserJock> truz24: hehe, sure ;-)
[07:22] <LaserJock> I'll have my PhD in 2020 at this rate
[07:25] <jsgotangco> hi sabdfl
[07:25] <sabdfl> hy guys
[07:25] <sabdfl> hey
[07:25] <sabdfl> colin charles says hi to everyone
[07:25] <sivang> hey sabdfl 
[07:25] <jsgotangco> ColinCharlesQueue !
[07:26] <sivang> jsgotangco: he a edubuntu guy?
[07:26] <jsgotangco> no he works at MySQL AB
[07:26] <jsgotangco> he did some work with IOSN too
[07:27] <sivang> jsgotangco: ah , cool
[07:27] <Riddell> Kamion: hmm yes, how silly of me
[07:32] <mdz> infinity: forgot to ask you at the meeting about the rebuild test
[07:32] <infinity> mdz: yes, but dholbach asked. :)
[07:33] <infinity> mdz: It's firing up in earnest tomorrow, with sparc and hppa blocking on an RT request (the other 4 should be building tomorrow when I get up, however)
[07:33] <mdz> infinity: yes, he did, and you said "it's being turned on" and I made a note to ask for more detail
[07:34] <infinity> mdz: Ahh. :)
[07:34] <mdz> thanks
[07:39] <jcole> i noticed the netboot stuff on the ubuntu install cd under /install, but can't figure out what boot option it is to install via netboot
[07:39] <thom> infinity: you ought to update the description of xorg-driver-fglrx to mention x1xxx support, i guess
[07:40] <infinity> thom: You ought to file a bug as a reminder for when I'm awake. ;)
[07:40] <jcole> under /install/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386 specifically
[07:42] <jcole> the netboot kernel and netboot initrd is all there
[07:45] <jcole> "This is an installation netboot image for Ubuntu 6.06, built on 20051026ubuntu30."
[07:47] <fabbione> mdz: sparc autotest is running here too, so even if DC is busy i can manage it.. probably quicker
[07:48] <Keybuk> infinity: but we need it fixed before release! :D
[07:49] <Keybuk> (brb)
[07:57] <bddebian> Kamion: You made comments on this one, should it be rejected?  Bug #37138
[07:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37138 in localechooser "Location ignored" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37138
[08:06] <jcole> Kamion: i figured out why it does that
[08:06] <jcole> Kamion: if you have a second cd drive, the ubuntu installer looks for the files on it
[08:08] <jcole> Kamion: in vmware, make 2 cdrom drives on the secondary, make the ubuntu install cd the master (ide1:0), and any other cd the slave (ide1:1)
[08:09] <jcole> Kamion: make sure both drives are connected at power on
[08:10] <jcole> Kamion: cdrom-detect is looking at the slave cd instead of the master cd
[08:12] <jcole> Kamion: it will fail
[08:26] <thom> heh, fglrx segfaults in xf86XVScreenInit
[08:26] <thom> winner
[08:27] <mjg59> fglrx is offensive to man and animal
[08:28] <bddebian> heh
[08:29] <thom> mjg59: yes, but unless we can get arlied's patches in, my X1800 has to run in VESA
[08:30] <mjg59> Unfortunate
[08:31] <mjg59> My god, it links!
[08:31] <fabbione> thom: are those patches in the ati-1.0-stable branch?
[08:31] <mjg59> fabbione: No
[08:31] <fabbione> ok
[08:32] <fabbione> i will talk to him to see how bad they are
[08:33] <thom> infinity: bug #41945 , anyway
[08:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41945 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 xorg-driver-fglrx "Segfault on startup with X1800XL" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41945
[08:51] <dholbach> good bye fellas
[08:53] <AlinuxOS> hello all dear people :)
[08:59] <bddebian> Hello AlinuxOS
[08:59] <AlinuxOS> hank you for beta2 ;)
[08:59] <AlinuxOS> it rocks :) in georgian :D
[09:00] <bddebian> Don't thank me, I'm just a peon. :-)
[09:13] <mdz> fabbione: strace attached to the bug now
[09:13] <fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
[09:14] <mdz> hmm
[09:14] <mdz> fabbione: in the old log, the thing which comes next in the log is checking the outputs
[09:14] <mdz> (--) NV(0): CRTC 0 is currently programmed for TV
[09:14] <mdz> (II) NV(0): Using TV on CRTC 0
[09:14] <mdz> so it may be related to TV out
[09:14] <fabbione> hold on....
[09:14] <fabbione>        Option "CrtcNumber" "integer"
[09:14] <fabbione>               GeForce2  MX,  nForce2,  Quadro4, GeForce4, Quadro FX and GeForce FX may have two video outputs.  The driver attempts to
[09:14] <fabbione>               autodetect which one the monitor is connected to.  In the case that autodetection picks the wrong one, this  option  may
[09:14] <fabbione>               be used to force usage of a particular output.  The options are "0" or "1".  Default: autodetected.
[09:15] <mdz> should I try CrtcNumber 0?
[09:15] <fabbione> try one and the other...
[09:15] <mdz> I am getting a lot of exercise running up and down stairs
[09:15] <fabbione> if none of them work we need to check what's in CVS
[09:16] <mdz>         Option          "CrtcNumber" "0"
[09:16] <mdz> in the Device section, right?
[09:16] <fabbione> mdz: what about moving the laptop downstair?
[09:16] <fabbione> yes after Driver nv
[09:16] <mdz> write(0, "(II) NV(0): I2C device \"DDC:ddc2\" removed.\n", 43) = 43
[09:16] <mdz> write(0, "(II) NV(0):   ... none found\n", 29) = 29
[09:16] <mdz> write(0, "(--) NV(0): CRTC 0 is currently programmed for TV\n", 50) = 50
[09:16] <mdz> write(0, "(**) NV(0): Forcing CRTCNumber 0 as specified\n", 46) = 46
[09:16] <mdz> write(0, "(II) NV(0): Using TV on CRTC 0\n", 31) = 31
[09:16] <mdz> then hang
[09:17] <fabbione> ok so detection work
[09:17] <mdz> next thing after that in the old log is (--) NV(0): VideoRAM: 65536 kBytes
[09:18] <fabbione> that shouldn't be an issue
[09:18] <fabbione> memory is always detected
[09:19] <mdz> gah, maximum mount count
[09:20] <mdz> fabbione: if you can tell me a good breakpoint I can gdb it
[09:20] <mdz> and step until it hangs
[09:20] <fabbione> mdz: eh.. i need a few minutes to look at the code again. Last time i hacked nv was for warty
[09:21] <mdz> where is the -dbg now? it's not xserver-xorg-dbg anymore
[09:24] <mdz> looks like there isn't a debug package anymore
[09:25] <janimo> mako__: around?
[09:27] <fabbione> mdz: NVCommonSetup
[09:27] <fabbione> mdz: that's the one that prints the TV stuff in the log
[09:27] <fabbione> so it might be a good entry point
[09:29] <fabbione> mdz: apparently there is no -dgb
[09:29] <mdz> fabbione: ok, it makes it to NVCommonSetup OK
[09:29] <fabbione> mdz: step into it.. let see if it dies there or later
[09:30] <mdz> ok I single stepped a bunch
[09:30] <mdz> and it seems to crash inside nvcommonsetup
[09:30] <fabbione> it's a long function
[09:30] <fabbione> ah
[09:30] <fabbione> ok
[09:30] <mdz> 0xb7977ef8 in NVSetStartAddress () from /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nv_drv.so
[09:30] <mdz> (gdb)
[09:30] <mdz> Single stepping until exit from function NVSetStartAddress,
[09:30] <mdz> which has no line number information.
[09:30] <mdz> 0xb79786b1 in NVCommonSetup () from /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nv_drv.so
[09:30] <mdz> (gdb)
[09:30] <mdz> Single stepping until exit from function NVCommonSetup,
[09:30] <mdz> which has no line number information.
[09:30] <mdz> and hang
[09:31] <mdz> it calls NVSetStartAddress a bunch of times though
[09:32] <fabbione> void NVSetStartAddress (
[09:32] <fabbione>     NVPtr   pNv,
[09:32] <fabbione>     CARD32 start
[09:32] <fabbione> )
[09:32] <fabbione> {
[09:32] <fabbione>     pNv->PCRTC[0x800/4]  = start;
[09:32] <fabbione> }
[09:32] <fabbione> it's called only once from the nv driver
[09:32] <fabbione> is that i386 or amd64?
[09:32] <mdz> i386
[09:32] <fabbione> i wonder if forcing the /4 allignement on the buffer might create issues
[09:32] <mdz> I pasted my gdb session into the bug
[09:34] <fabbione> we can try building a non stripped nv driver
[09:34] <fabbione> and see if gdb is more friendly
[09:35] <mdz> ok, if you can attach one to the bug I will do it monday
[09:35] <mdz> need to get back to work today
[09:36] <fabbione> mdz: well it's work this too :)
[09:36] <mdz> fabbione: yes, but I have work which is due today
[09:36] <fabbione> mdz: of course.. but i can't really see how that SetStartAddress can fail
[09:36] <vlad> good evening
[09:36] <darius_> After upgrading from 5.10 to 6.06 Beta, system CPU consumption average 20-50% while system is idle (as reported by top and vmstat).  None of the individual processes are reported as eating this resources.  Can anyone tell how I could collect useful information for a bug report?
[09:37] <G0SUB> I have written a Spec for a GUI config tool for SAMBA, is anybody willing to take a look?
[09:37] <darius_> This is causing my laptop to run hot (fan is running faster) and I really hope it doesn't persist through the Dapper release
[09:38] <G0SUB> darius_: what does top report?
[09:38] <vlad> doko: can I ask for little help regarding eclipse-pydev package?
[09:38] <darius_> top shows ~ 10 - 15% use in sys
[09:38] <darius_> 15-20% use in user
[09:39] <darius_> but no process is even close to eating up these kinds of resources
[09:39] <mdz> darius_: it may be many short-lived processes, which would explain them not showing up in top
[09:39] <G0SUB> strange
[09:39] <darius_> vmstat shows similar info.  atsar does not however
[09:40] <darius_> can I paste here?
[09:40] <G0SUB> darius_: pastebin.com
[09:42] <doko> vlad: sure
[09:43] <darius_> http://pastebin.com/687563
[09:44] <darius_> vmstat/top and atsar don't seem to line up at all
[09:44] <vlad> doko: do we want 1.0.6 in Dapper?
[09:44] <doko> vlad: didn't look at the release notes. is it worth the effort from you point of view?
[09:44] <fabbione> mdz: the only big changes from breezy nv and dapper nv are the rupport for RandR (that we can try to disable) and some hw initialization code, that looks pretty much the problem you are having. The code is very well isolate but there are no frigging comments on it. 
[09:45] <darius_> Is there a way to monitor the launch of all new processes?
[09:46] <mdz> you could use process accounting, but usually if you run ps enough times you can catch something
[09:46] <vlad> doko: there's plenty of new features. seems that Fabio is taking it seriously
[09:48] <Amaranth> anyone know the status of bug 30557 ?
[09:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30557 in linux-source-2.6.15 "cpu idle time in /proc/stat wrong" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30557
[09:48] <Amaranth> seems pretty bad
[09:48] <doko> vlad: I currently cannot spend time on the package, so you would have to prepare and test it. could you make your package available on REVU?
[09:50] <darius_> Is there any way to know if Ubuntu labs are testing against the same model of laptop that I have?
[09:50] <tseng> read the LaptopTesting wiki page
[09:52] <vlad> doko: I see, actually I do not have anything ready yet. moreover I have some difficulties with that.
[09:52] <vlad> doko: so I would say lets stick with 1.0.3
[09:52] <G0SUB> vlad: why don't you update off the net?
[09:55] <doko> vlad: maybe a better idea for edgy. you could still make the package available outside the repository for dapper without pressure.
[09:55] <darius_> Amaranth: wow, that bug may be my same problem.
[09:55] <Amaranth> probably
[09:56] <vlad> G0SUB: ?? do you mean why don't I fetch binaries from the project home?
[09:59] <vlad> doko: still, I have a question. I asked Fabio to release the sources in a zip together with each version and he kindly agreed. the problem is that the sources contain compiled jars and other stuff.
[10:00] <vlad> doko: can I just delete it from the original .zip and pretend that it had never been there?
[10:01] <bddebian> ANyone in here on the main side deal with mdbtools?
[10:01] <vlad> doko: I mean by this act the original sources won't be "original" anymore.
[10:11] <doko> vlad: you have to remove the non-free jars, you can leave the others
[10:11] <Kamion> bddebian: no, #37138 should stay open please; even though I disagree with exactly what the reporter's suggesting, our handling of his situation should be improved
[10:12] <bddebian> Kamion: OK
[10:12] <Kamion> jcole: ah, right, that's a long-known bug, basically bug 9172
[10:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 9172 in cdrom-detect "installer doesn't find the installation cd in the 2nd ide drive" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/9172
[10:13] <Kamion> Riddell: merged and pushed, thanks; will probably upload shortly
[10:15] <vlad> doko: one more ... the sources contained in the .zip are ending with \r\n. should I leave it as it is or substitute it?
[10:16] <nomed> Mithrandir, around ?
[10:17] <doko> vlad: what's easier for you
[10:17] <nomed> i see in casper "hack to stop xscreensaver locking the screen"
[10:17] <nomed> and then bug 7150
[10:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 7150 in tetex-base tetex-extra "could not be removed when postinst didn't run" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/7150
[10:18] <nomed> i guess it's not a malone bug .. what else could it be?
[10:18] <Kamion> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[10:18] <Kamion> from before we moved to malone
[10:18] <nomed> k thanks
[10:19] <Mithrandir> nomed: yes, why?
[10:19] <Kamion> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7150 has a redirecting link which ends up at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xscreensaver/+bug/13497
[10:19] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 7150 in xscreensaver "Locked password on live CD interferes with screen lock" [Normal,Reopened]  
[10:19] <Mithrandir> nomed: oh, well, what Colin says.
[10:20] <nomed> Mithrandir, nothing special .. just playing with casper .. and i sow that
[10:21] <nomed> Mithrandir, at the moment i have patched it in a way it's possible to set HOST and USERNAME 
[10:21] <nomed> from a conf.d script
[10:21] <nomed> same for a black-initlist 
[10:21] <Mithrandir> black-initlist?
[10:22] <nomed> i guess it can't go in dapper .. but aybe it could be an idea for dapper + 1
[10:22] <nomed> Mithrandir, ex ..
[10:22] <nomed> xubuntu doesn't need 22gnome_panel_data
[10:22] <vlad> doko: so generally speaking the changes to the "original" sources are completely legal as far as I do not change anything really important. the important things go to dpatch. right?
[10:22] <nomed> export blacklist="22gnome_panel_data \ ..
[10:23] <nomed> conf/conf.d/00blacklist
[10:23] <Kamion> wouldn't it be neater just to make 22gnome_panel_data be a no-op if the relevant bits aren't installed?
[10:23] <Kamion> it's not as if the script is big, or as if the overhead of running it is large
[10:24] <nomed> Kamion, yes ..
[10:24] <Mithrandir> nomed: basically what Colin says; any script giving errors when the relevant package isn't installed or similar is buggy and should just be fixed.
[10:24] <nomed> but such thing could help derivatives i guess
[10:25] <nomed> but i get what you mean
[10:26] <Mithrandir> if you can come up with a use case for it where you're not working around a bug, I'll certainly consider it.
[10:26] <nomed> Mithrandir, but this may take time ..
[10:26] <Mithrandir> the user and host parts would be nice to get, though.
[10:26] <nomed> panel_version=$(chroot /target /usr/bin/dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Version}'
[10:26] <nomed> Mithrandir, that's done
[10:26] <Mithrandir> nomed: it shouldn't take noticably much time.
[10:30] <nomed> Mithrandir, i see it changes root two time on that script ..
[10:33] <bddebian> Should a new package request be in LP?
[10:36] <Kamion> bddebian: if it amounts to a sync request, yes; if it requires changes, just upload it
[10:37] <bddebian> Kamion: I don't believe it's in Debian either.  Bug #37628
[10:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37628 in language-support-sk "missing spellcheckers" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37628
[10:37] <Kamion> nomed: chroot() is not especially expensive
[10:37] <Kamion> bddebian: as good a place for it as any - I don't think there's any other place to put it that doesn't amount to forgetting about it
[10:37] <nomed> Kamion, true 
[10:38] <nomed> but if it may be supprted custom HOST and USERNAME ..
[10:38] <bddebian> Kamion: Even UniverseCandidates?
[10:38] <nomed> why not to add a blacklist?
[10:39] <nomed> probably a (k|x)ubuntu-casper pkge could be needed in that case (?)
[10:40] <Mithrandir> nomed: I prefer to add features because they serve some case, not just because they're neat, so it'd make it a lot easier for you to get your changes into dapper proper if you could give me some convincing use cases.
[10:40] <Mithrandir> nomed: saying that "some package might want to use it" is a bit weak..
[10:41] <Kamion> bddebian: if it's already been moved to there, it would be OK to close the bug and tell the user to subscribe to that wiki page if they're interested, I guess. I don't think we should be keen to close bugs that are, well, actually bugs though
[10:42] <nomed> Mithrandir, sure .. what i'll do is to send you two different patches
[10:42] <Kamion> nomed: I can't think of any case where a script couldn't just guard its contents with [ -f /target/some/file/it/needs ] 
[10:42] <Mithrandir> nomed: please do just use bzr and publish your changes somewhere, it makes it easier for me to merge off you later too.
[10:42] <bddebian> A wishlisht package request is a "bug"? :-)
[10:42] <Mithrandir> nomed: there's a .bzr directory in the source package.
[10:43] <nomed> Mithrandir, easier for me too :)
[10:43] <Kamion> bddebian: the bug (a wishlist bug, admittedly) is that Slovak users do not have spell checking available
[10:43] <bddebian> BTW, I just confirmed it and added a link to UniverseCandidates :)
[10:43] <Kamion> even though it's available
[10:43] <Mithrandir> nomed: thanks. :-)
[10:43] <Kamion> bddebian: I prefer to look at what the bug actually is rather than the form it takes :)
[10:46] <bddebian> Kamion: ?
[10:46] <bddebian> Heya \sh
[10:46] <\sh> morning bddebian
[11:01] <jcole> m$ has released their own ubuntu
[11:01] <jcole> "Microsoft Corp. is targeting Africa with a lower-priced version of the Windows operating system that will work on cheaper machines and have Africa-themed screensavers and background wallpaper among its features." - http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8H92B4O1.htm
[11:02] <jcole> very thoughtful and kind of them to do so
[11:52] <highvoltage> what happened to Gnubuntu?
[11:53] <ompaul> highvoltage, try joining the channel
[11:53] <highvoltage> ok