[12:03] to late for me to, work in less than 7 hours.. i'll try to read the backlog though :) [12:04] good night toma === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.30] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:04] so, we should start [12:04] Hobbsee: you have the first item [12:04] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/38573 [12:04] Malone bug 38573 in kdebase "kubuntu_36_hide_kjobviewer_menu_entry.diff should be dropped" [Wishlist,Confirmed] [12:05] let's [12:05] this is a wishlist - do we want to accept it? it probably makes sense [12:05] I tt [12:05] ] [12:05] sorry [12:05] rationale for removng it was that when there's something printing you get it in the systray [12:05] so I don't see why it's needed [12:06] I would agree that the on is SysSetting->Printers is a bit hidden one... === noteventime [n=tilo@h209n2c1o291.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:06] 4 clics... === Seantater [n=sean@cpe-069-132-052-158.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:06] same [12:06] + there's the print applet [12:06] that can be added to the bar [12:07] Riddell: right, so if my jobs are stuck it will be there [12:07] people still cant find the theming section of system settings - i doubt that many end up finding the printer module too [12:07] sorry, still rather asleep here...start, brain, start! [12:07] Hobbsee: themeing isn't there at all, printing is there [12:08] Riddell: some guys need themeing select from system settings [12:08] Hobbsee: I can agree with theme/appereance and stuff (many modules), but Printers is only one [12:08] i guess it's a submenu away. i actually meant colours [12:08] is there a use case [12:08] I think if anybody needs kjobviewer when they're not printing they can be bothered to go to system settings, there's no need to clutter up the menu with it. [12:08] for when you need it? [12:08] Riddell: yes, in the bug report === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] === WillHunting [n=Will@lns-bzn-46-82-253-203-14.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:09] hmm, printing from openoffice [12:09] actually, i guess the bug report brings up good points [12:10] hmm [12:10] i'm for removing the diff. [12:10] I'm still against it but I'm happy for it to go to a poll [12:10] Riddell: true - I also notice that Firefox does not trigger job viewer tray... [12:10] Lure: bah, use konqueror :) [12:11] Riddell: tried twice, still no go... but planning again... ;-) [12:11] -1 from me [12:11] go, vote.. [12:11] +1 [12:11] -1 [12:11] -1 [12:11] +1 - i know i keep looking up the printer module often enough [12:12] +1 [12:12] Hobbsee: why do you end up looking it up? [12:12] 0 [12:12] Riddell: there is another possibility [12:12] there is a submenu activable [12:12] yuck, submenu's are evil === Huahua [n=hua_@222.50.183.147] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:13] gives the same rederring than the "printers" submenu in windows [12:13] Riddell: because it's hard to hear if the printer is actually finished, and im' often not sure where the printer has failed - ie, my computer, or between my computer and the printer. [12:13] anyone already tested this ? [12:13] I'll have to go to bed. nite kubuntuers. [12:13] nite uniq [12:13] Tonio_: howto ? [12:13] OdyX: showing a screenshot, plz wait ;) [12:14] Riddell: anyway, do we want to discuss the other issues, then come back to this, as people have had a bit of time to think? it's already a quarter thru the meeting :P === kwwii [n=kwwii@likes.smoking.more.than.watching.spacenight.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:14] morning kwwii [12:14] we could let kwwii decide [12:14] hi Hobbsee [12:14] kwwii: let us know what you decide on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/38573 [12:14] Malone bug 38573 in kdebase "kubuntu_36_hide_kjobviewer_menu_entry.diff should be dropped" [Wishlist,Confirmed] [12:14] ok, Tonio_, your item [12:14] http://planetemu.net/temp/capture8.png [12:15] Riddell: here it is [12:15] just to finish on this :) [12:15] Tonio_: ug, a top level menu === robotgee1 [i=venkat@digital.celebris.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:16] Riddell: that's better to me that a kjobviewer entry in system or something......... but well, let's go next item :) [12:16] Tonio_: that's "to think about"... [12:16] Tonio_: bogofilter.. [12:16] Tonio_: could that menu go within System? [12:16] what was the url for installing firefox 1.5 ? [12:16] yes, so bogofilter has been removed [12:16] as our major aim for kubuntu is usability, I think that's an issue [12:16] it is not quite easy for a newbie to guess what are the compatibles antispam filters [12:17] it looks like it's in main [12:17] saaida: this is not a support channel. see #kubuntu [12:17] Riddell: yes, it was shiped by default with dapper, but isn't anymore [12:17] Tonio_: any idea what's changed that it's not brought in now? === saaida [n=noname@86.125.24.164] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation] [12:17] Riddell: as someone who prints a lot, I find it nice to be able to open it easily...case 3 is exactly right - often things do not function as expected but you don't know that until 15min later (and you closed the pop-up cause you thought it would work) [12:17] Riddell: I didn't check deps in detail..... I will have to === Parkotron [n=parker@fctnnbsc16w-156034215207.nb.aliant.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:18] I have to compare breezy to dapper on that point [12:18] does bogofilter have any issues/bad comportements ? [12:18] 3465kB, I'd say we afford that [12:18] Riddell: big advantage with bogofilter is that it is pretty light ressources compared to spamassassin === OdyX uses both though. [12:19] Tonio_: does it need any setting up or does kmail use it automatically? [12:19] OdyX: bogofilter works nicelly as long as you tag correctly your mails [12:19] hmm, you have to tag your e-mails? [12:19] Riddell: when you use kmail, simply use the antispam configuration assistant, and everything is automatic [12:19] as long as it is installed of course [12:20] Riddell: yes it is bayes based, so you have to tag to build black and white lists [12:20] same way than spamassassin anyway [12:20] Tonio_: how do you tag? is there a menu item that becomes available when you setup spam? [12:20] once you taggued a few mails, it starts making good job to me, about 95% spams detected [12:20] Riddell: yes, you have buttons added to the interface automatically by the assistant [12:21] Riddell: menu on right-clicks on mails or top-bar button. [12:21] Tonio_: sounds great, I'll add it to the seeds [12:21] everything is really simple to configure and use, as long as you have a tool preinstalled [12:21] Riddell: thanks :) [12:21] great [12:22] ok, is Nirvana here? [12:22] Riddell: does not look like... [12:22] guess not [12:22] mvo has some plans to add screenshots to gnome-app-install in dapper+1 [12:22] which may be done through launchpad [12:23] so something similar can be done for adept if someone wants to code it [12:23] hmm, bogofilter is on this agenda twice :) [12:23] oh nice :) [12:23] screenshots stored in debs or in launchpad ? [12:23] OdyX: launchpad wuld be the best place [12:24] sure. [12:24] (if we cant stop duplicates on one wiki page, what chance do we have of avoiding duplicate bug reports??? :P ) [12:24] adding it to app-install-data would take up significant disk space [12:24] ok, pef points us to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/41040 [12:24] Malone bug 41040 in kdebase "Should be easier to choose printout mode (draft/normal/photo,...)" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed] [12:24] Hobbsee: lol [12:25] which looks a lot like an upstream issue to me, redesigning the kde print dialogue is not best done by distros [12:25] not at all indeed [12:25] Riddell: agree [12:25] toma: hmm? [12:25] toma: to which point? [12:26] your point [12:26] i don't understand what is meant by adept screenshots [12:26] hmm, other words: i think it is an upstream thing [12:26] yep, pef if you read the logs, work with inorog on the issue [12:26] so, kubuntu members [12:26] Here is a usability side of the printer problem...my father-in-law complained that his computer was stuck in a loop because he tried to print one document and it kept printing them every hour or so...in the end it turned out that he had tried to print a 70MB file and cause it took so long he kept clicking, thinking it was not working...the queue had like 20 jobs in it [12:26] yuriy: adept would show screenshop (preview) of app that you may want to installl [12:27] yuriy: screenshots of programs to be added to program description [12:27] imo [12:27] oh to the description [12:27] interesting idea [12:27] kwwii: yep, I think we'll add back the print job viewer to the menu [12:27] it would have to download them from launchpad or along with the package lists from apt then? [12:27] kwwii: there was a prinitng summit recently, i think the conclusion was that printing can be improved a lot and there are people working on it [12:28] toma: there's still very little action from KDE on it [12:28] toma: my point is, if he would have found the print queue utility he would have know [12:28] (but that can take a while) [12:28] but he kept closing them [12:28] anyway... [12:28] that is my opinion :-) [12:29] so I now have the ability to make kubuntu members, which are equal to ubuntu members [12:29] member needs to have made a sustained and substantial contribution, and sign the code of conduct etc [12:29] Riddell: equal ?? interesting ;) [12:29] questions is what's the best way to accept people as members [12:29] so, what's the idea - if you go for kubuntu membership, you dont have to go for ubuntu membership? [12:29] blood [12:29] if i am a member of both teams, do i get something special :P [12:30] Hobbsee: correct, they are exactly the same thing, you just get a different icon [12:30] Riddell: as we're talking about kdeprint, did you confirm the greyed list of printers when adding a new printer currently? [12:30] robotgeek: A4 visit card. [12:30] Riddell: will members get @ubuntu.com address too ? [12:30] raphink: nope, I didn't have that problem and neither has anyone else [12:30] Tonio_: they'll get @kubuntu.org addresses if elmo works out how to do it [12:30] Riddell: very nice ;) === Tonio_ wants tonio@kubuntu.org :) [12:31] as I understand it edubuntu are starting an edubuntu community council for this [12:31] now that is cool [12:31] weird [12:31] Riddell: to my opinion a CC is the best for this yes === hybrid_ [n=hybrid@unaffiliated/hybrid] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:31] Riddell: i found the kde eV method very good, 1 person suggest->2 agree->vote, but that depends on how many people would join. Maybe go straight to a vote would be ok. [12:31] oh interesting [12:31] :) [12:31] we could have a kubuntu community council. or we could have just use these meeting, [12:31] Tonio_: CC, with Kubuntu Members or Ubuntu Members ? [12:31] or I could just have the final say [12:32] Tonio_: hehe [12:32] toma: interesting idea, we could have a script set up to vote with the existing members [12:32] i supect that would create more problems than it would fix - what if the person suddenly starts working on gnome? what if they want to work on both at the same time? we already have enough people asking for teh kubuntu repos, thinking they are separate to the ubuntu ones - does that mean we need a #kubuntu-motu as well? [12:32] start small, then go to a kubuntu community council if it gets too unwieldy? === Hobbsee realises she has a thing to add to the end of the meeting... [12:32] mind you, i like the idea of hobbsee@kubuntu.com [12:32] er, .org [12:32] OdyX: same than the ubuntu CC, every member gives his opinion, and a team of people is designed to take the decision [12:33] Hobbsee: since kubuntu memebership is exactly the same as ubuntu membership this doesn't change stuff like everyone working in #ubuntu-motu [12:33] it works well for ubuntu actually, so why would we do differently ? [12:33] Tonio_: Yeah.. I understand that.. but would there be a Kubuntu CC (KCC) ? [12:33] Hobbsee: not .com [12:33] OdyX: supposedly yes [12:34] Riddell: i'm worried that people will start thinking that kubuntu/ubuntu memberships are different [12:34] raphink: yeah, i fixed it [12:34] Tonio_: I think CC would be better (more clear), but then you need to define how CC is elected... === Parkotron2 [n=parker@fctnnbsc16w-156034215252.nb.aliant.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:34] Hobbsee: it just emphasises the parts you work on most [12:34] so what would actually be the point/benefit of being a kubuntu "member" other than a cool email address? [12:34] Riddell: or that people will try to go for kubuntu just to get membership on kubuntu, if it's easier than ubuntu's, then switch over... [12:34] yuriy: more work, more responsibility :) [12:34] hmmm..right [12:35] Or just Riddell changes his nick to ksabdfl? [12:35] ;-) [12:35] good question yuriy [12:35] lol [12:35] Lure: LOL ^^ [12:35] yuriy: a cool hostmask that makes you look like you know what you're talkign about :P [12:35] yuriy: it's more for delegation to the teams where people work [12:35] Lure: +1 [12:35] hehe! === claydoh [n=clay@bb-66-63-100-239.gwi.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["problem] [12:35] yuriy: mostly it's a sign of commitment, it also means you get to vote on community council and tech board members, and it's a requirement for getting upload rights [12:35] Lure: why not, riddell decides the kcc and then the kcc decides the members [12:35] that makes sense [12:35] Hobbsee: this is indeed something we'll have to be careful of [12:36] Riddell: in that case, i would think it is wise to vote between all members and you being able to override it at any time. [12:36] Riddell, ajmitch: thanks, good answer [12:37] I think (with all respect to you Riddell) that "one person responsability" is dangerous. For the beginning, it's normal, but then, a concil is good. [12:37] is it such a bad thing to go to the CC, and get membership that way? i know they're kinda harsh at times, and a bit scary...but i would not want to separate the distros more than they already are [12:37] Hobbsee: lol yeah that's what I was thinking. [12:37] Hobbsee: it's the CC that wants the teams to take responsibility for it, iirc [12:38] in about a year, how many people do you expect in the kcc? [12:38] I think that the kubuntu-members would be a sub-team of ubuntu-members, so anyone added to k-m is automatically in both [12:38] (just speculation) [12:38] Hobbsee: I also understand current CC - it will not scale if you count also LoCo approvals, and governance stuff [12:38] Also, we dont know everything - Riddell has a far greater understanding than we do of who fits where - how are we to vote on someone we've never heard much about, if they've not been on irc? i've only found out that amu did the cds, recently! [12:38] ajmitch: that's what planning said, AFAIR [12:38] ajmitch: that can be a bit confusing no ? [12:38] it makes sense to have some delgation of authority to subgrups of size of Kubuntu or Edubuntu. [12:38] ajmitch: then whoever decides who is in ubuntu-members HAS to have a say here, not just Riddell or kcc [12:38] Tonio_: simple once you see it :) [12:38] toma: if we had a community council I'd say 5 or 6 members [12:38] ajmitch: yes, that's how it's set up, see down at the end of https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers [12:38] ajmitch: most people contributing on the kde part are not especially involved in gnome [12:39] and ubuntu = gnome in the spirit of many [12:39] ajmitch: that is the fact already - see launchpad [12:39] right [12:39] Tonio_: this maybe has to be changes "upstream" [12:39] Riddell: in that case a simple majority should be ok, on an equal amount of votes, you decide. [12:39] just mho [12:40] yuriy: we're content to delegate this; if it turns out to be a problem we can always reconsider [12:40] Hobbsee: if we had a kcc then whoever was on it would have to be in touch with the community, but mostly the community is on #kubuntu-devel except loco teams [12:40] more in "Ubuntu = Good base + [Gnome/KDE/...] " or Ubuntu = good base. === Kamion <- CC member === Hobbsee waves to Kamion [12:40] hi [12:40] Riddell: that's true. [12:41] I worry with a kcc that things might get to beurocratic, e.g. we don't have that many meetings and someone might not be able to turn up at the times we do [12:41] Kamion: do you know if CC had any expectation of how kubuntu and edubuntu would handle this? [12:41] Riddell: that's a good way to oblige us making more meetings ;) === WilliamZ [n=william@cpc2-tref1-0-0-cust777.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:42] (which might be good anyways) [12:42] but seriously, I agree with on that point [12:42] one other point: if we cant vote easily on something relatively simple such as printer settings, and quickly, is it really fair to leave the people in limbo for that long while we vote for 10 mins? I'd like to avoid burocreacy as much as possible, and i suspect that's what we'll be creating [12:42] Riddell: I think one meeting per month should be enough for start [12:42] Riddell: I wasn't really in on the details, was mostly sabdfl/elmo I think [12:43] Riddell: I don't think we expected you to need to create a whole clone of the CC structure etc. right away [12:43] I get the feeling that I voted the wrong way on the printer thing === sHaDe [n=sHaDe@host249-208.pool8258.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:43] the basic impetus was just so that @kubuntu.org addresses could be created independently [12:43] (more or less) === hybrid_ [n=hybrid@dpc6745217221.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:44] Riddell: you can always punt folks to the CC if you feel they've made wider contributions than just kubuntu [12:44] Kamion: you mean "half-members" ? [12:44] Riddell: I'd certainly be wary of setting up something that requires lots of voting and stuff before you get used to how things are feeling [12:45] heh, actually I just checked in LP and anyone who's a member of kubuntu-members is automatically a member of ubuntumembers, not the other way round [12:45] OdyX: so no, I don't mean half-members [12:45] can I propose we have a poll on 1) creating a KCC or 2) having me make the decisions based on asking people informally [12:45] it's a system of delegation, not a tiered ystem [12:46] system [12:46] given Kamion's comments I'm leaning towards 2) [12:46] anyone want to propose other options? [12:46] simple voting system at malone? [12:46] I don't see how voting for people at monthly meetings is a big issue. After the initial bunch of people already contributing become members, somebody will need a few weeks to show "sustained contribution" anyways and then they can be voted on at a meeting at the end of the month. [12:46] I'm also with 2) with the possibility to vote 'offline' [12:46] sorry, obviously it's up to you, I'm not intending to try to lean on you [12:46] Kamion: which seems prettty logical, since kubuntu is a specific case of ubuntu [12:46] and not the contrary === Hobbsee is against 1), so that probably means i have to vote 2, doesnt it? ideally, i'd keep it going through the ubuntu CC [12:47] so 3) voting based on existing members [12:48] 3++ [12:48] I'd say 2) [12:48] Hobbsee: I'd add a 4) don't approve anyone and send them all to CC but it's CC's choice to delegate it to us [12:48] I'd say 2) too, but 3 can also be a nice option [12:48] ah darn [12:48] Riddell: with 3, what does that mean? the existing members voting on the new ones? [12:49] Hobbsee: yes [12:49] How about using https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-members/+polls for members? [12:49] gotcha [12:49] robotgeek: leaving people in limbo is pretty mean [12:49] Hobbsee: how would that be leaving people in limbo (you have x votes, you are approved) [12:49] I would say 3) [12:49] its not going to take ages to have a poll with 5/6 people [12:49] with 3) then we have to start with 2) to get members in the first place? [12:50] I think 3 is too complicate [12:50] the trouble with 3) is we don't have a way to discuss things [12:50] robotgeek: ah ok, i thought you were going for half way points....so you'd have to wait ages for all the required votes [12:50] robotgeek: to formal - I think a bit of discussion on meeting is appropraite [12:50] cause "everyone" is not easy to define [12:50] unless that means all members present [12:50] raphink: yes [12:50] Riddell: you can announce the poll by email, explaining thinks, but i agree that is not a discussion. [12:51] raphink: I would suggest simple amjority of present members (+ minimal of 3/5 present)? [12:51] robotgeek: does this system accept comments? [12:51] s/amjority/majority [12:51] raphink: not sure, i just saw this, no idea how it works :) [12:51] Riddell: in this case it could be used, using comments as a discussion thread [12:51] raphink: I don't think it does [12:52] Lure: so a relative majority [12:52] Lure: I don't really agree with that === hybrid_ [n=hybrid@dpc6745217221.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:52] because most people who apply to membership are obviously supported [12:53] so in the case of 3), most people will come with their support team [12:53] raphink: ++ [12:53] and this is not a neutral decision in this case [12:53] raphink: right... [12:53] 3) includes "existing members", huh ? [12:53] raphink: +1 [12:54] in my idea, people should have avocates to apply, but their advocates shouldn't vote === raphink thinks this begins to look like the debian system somehow ... [12:54] raphink: care to elaborate? [12:54] so...people will refuse to advocate, because they're needed to vote? [12:54] raphink: you can not so that, in a group of 5/6 [12:54] when I think again, small (3 member?) KCC with 1 year mandate, elected from all members is not a bad idea... [12:55] I think someone who deserves membership can find at least one member to support his application [12:55] this person should come and advocate the candidate [12:55] but not take part in the vote [12:55] raphink: that really like debian's [12:55] Lure: sure [12:55] again, the group is too smal to do that [12:56] too small "yet" ? === Sergi0 [n=serge@ip227-28-166-62.adsl.versatel.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:56] 1 year mandate is a bit long maybe [12:56] but the idea seems nice imo [12:56] toma: you're now talking about 5/6 people, that's the KCC idea [12:56] freeflying: indeed [12:56] raphink: why? this is only two releases ;-) [12:56] sure [12:56] Lure: how long have you been around? [12:56] ah, ok. [12:56] there are 15 members, just for info [12:57] ;) [12:57] raphink: around kubuntu-devel? From Jan/Feb or so... [12:57] ;-) [12:58] mhm [12:58] why don't you try to do it with a poll between all members and when that turns out bad, create a kcc. === WillHunting [n=Will@lns-bzn-32-82-254-63-177.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:59] Riddell: also, with IRC hostmasks, would they get changed to say ubuntu/member/hobbsee or kubuntu/member/hobbsee - if the latter, what does that mean for those of us who are ops in both channels - will people stop listing if the hostmask says kubuntu, saying that they cant be authorities in here, as they dont use gnome? (warning: semi formed idea, it's still early :P ) [12:59] toma: first question: who defines "exisitng members" oto kick-start? every ubuntu-members that declares itself as such? [12:59] ok [12:59] I think the launchpad poll thing could work [12:59] Hobbsee: I don't have any plans to get kubuntu freenode masks [01:00] Lure: see https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-team/ [01:00] right, cool :) [01:00] Lure: https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-members/+members [01:00] so... === raphink has lost the thread === Hobbsee has too :P [01:00] Hobbsee: although we probably could do without any problems [01:00] Riddell: please dont. [01:00] yeah [01:00] Hobbsee: ok, sorted [01:01] I think in some cases, membership is just obvious [01:01] for everybody [01:01] Riddell: :P that's gotta be the quickest agreement ever in history for a kubuntu meeting! [01:01] annoyingly no clear best way has presented itself for the kubuntu memebers question [01:01] and there's no need for a meeting to decide about it [01:01] shall we take a poll again? [01:02] evaluate a system after a few tries... [01:02] 1) kcc, 2) ksabdfl, 3) vote amongst existing members [01:02] toma: OH so the team is already there and has members. i was confused. [01:02] 3) with 2) veto ? === freeflying 3) + [01:02] 1) and 3) as second option [01:03] 1 [01:03] for not having "obvious campain comitee" ? [01:03] what is the difference between kubuntu-team and kubuntu-members? [01:03] 1 [01:03] yuriy: kubuntu-team is less formal, doesn't include ubuntu membership [01:04] yuriy: kubuntu-team is the bug contact for malone [01:04] that too [01:04] interestingly we already have 3 proposed members for kubuntu-members who I've never hard of [01:04] actually kubuntu-team is not even an equivalent of ubuntu-devel [01:04] heard [01:04] since there are non-dev members in it [01:04] anyone know LIVRON, PeppeP, itsdebtosh? [01:05] no x3 [01:05] raphink: it's equivent of desktop-team I think [01:05] mhm [01:05] Riddell: well if as sabdfl proposed we get a TB, there might be to approve kubuntu devels aswell [01:05] who is meant to apply to kubuntu-team ? [01:05] and the need to have a kubuntu-devel group as there is an ubuntu-devel one [01:05] raphink: where did he propose that? [01:06] or did I misunderstand his statement? [01:06] OdyX: anyone who helps with kubuntu, feel free to sign up [01:06] hmm let's see [01:06] Riddell: thanks ;-) [01:06] Riddell: never heard of them [01:06] " [01:06] During the course of these discussions I would like us to nominate a core [01:06] leadership team for Kubuntu which can take overall technical [01:06] responsibility for the desktop [01:07] obviously that doesn't not _exactly_ mean TB [01:07] raphink: ubuntu-dev is upload privileges, that won't be split out for kubuntu for quite some time [01:07] but this is what the TB does [01:07] for ubuntu [01:07] Riddell: wait.. kubuntu-team is sub-group of kubuntu-members... [01:07] Kamion: ok, thanks for making this clear :) [01:07] raphink: the two share an archive, so it's not sane to split out the privileges currently [01:07] OdyX: other way around if anything [01:08] sure Kamion === arthur [n=arthur@adsl-ull-21-166.46-151.net24.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:09] actually, i'm rather in favour of having a top level team, such as raphink and Riddell, and maybe tonio or something, i'm not sure who else - who takes responsibility - instead of just Riddell. What i see is that this team would be the KCC, control the meetings, make sure everything's on track, and people have something to do, etc. It seems that there are so many people here, that to get agreement and direction on much is kinda difficult. [01:09] Hobbsee: +1 [01:09] it's rather hard to do something, if you dont know what to do :P [01:10] our poll was kindae split between 1) and 3) [01:10] these people would be approved by the general majority === Yann2 like the 3-guy idea [01:10] but Mark does seem to be suggesting some sort of committee for kubuntu to be discussed at linuxtag [01:10] i like Hobbsee's idea here.. [01:10] (woot [01:10] Yann2: it would have to be more than three, otherwise people often don't turn up [01:10] ! i'm getting approval!) [01:11] Riddell: yes mark seems to have plans for kubuntu on those points [01:11] then delay it untill after the linuxTag [01:11] yeah I also agree a KCC sounds the most sensible. 3 or 5 people [01:11] Hobbsee: of course, it's a reasonable idea :) [01:11] so I propose that after linuxtag we look at what Mark and us have decided and use that as a framework for the membership stuff [01:12] toma: probably makes sense - and it will be easier to discuss there ... [01:12] ++ [01:12] great, a decision :) [01:12] Riddell: ++ [01:12]