[12:03] <uniq> to late for me to, work in less than 7 hours.. i'll try to read the backlog though :)
[12:04] <raphink> good night toma
[12:04] <Riddell> so, we should start
[12:04] <Riddell> Hobbsee: you have the first item
[12:04] <Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/38573
[12:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38573 in kdebase "kubuntu_36_hide_kjobviewer_menu_entry.diff should be dropped" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
[12:05] <raphink> let's
[12:05] <Hobbsee> this is a wishlist - do we want to accept it?  it probably makes sense
[12:05] <Riddell> I tt
[12:05] <Riddell> ] 
[12:05] <Riddell> sorry
[12:05] <Riddell> rationale for removng it was that when there's something printing you get it in the systray
[12:05] <Riddell> so I don't see why it's needed
[12:06] <Lure> I would agree that the on is SysSetting->Printers is a bit hidden one...
[12:06] <OdyX> 4 clics...
[12:06] <raphink> same
[12:06] <raphink> + there's the print applet
[12:06] <raphink> that can be added to the bar
[12:07] <Lure> Riddell: right, so if my jobs are stuck it will be there
[12:07] <Hobbsee> people still cant find the theming section of system settings - i doubt that many end up finding the printer module too
[12:07] <Hobbsee> sorry, still rather asleep here...start, brain, start!
[12:07] <Riddell> Hobbsee: themeing isn't there at all, printing is there
[12:08] <freeflying> Riddell: some guys need themeing select from system settings
[12:08] <Lure> Hobbsee: I can agree with theme/appereance and stuff (many modules), but Printers is only one
[12:08] <Hobbsee> i guess it's a submenu away.  i actually meant colours
[12:08] <Riddell> is there a use case 
[12:08] <yuriy> I think if anybody needs kjobviewer when they're not printing they can be bothered to go to system settings, there's no need to clutter up the menu with it.
[12:08] <Riddell> for when you need it?
[12:08] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes, in the bug report
[12:09] <Riddell> hmm, printing from openoffice
[12:09] <yuriy> actually, i guess the bug report brings up good points
[12:10] <Riddell> hmm
[12:10] <uniq> i'm for removing the diff.
[12:10] <Riddell> I'm still against it but I'm happy for it to go to a poll
[12:10] <Lure> Riddell: true - I also notice that Firefox does not trigger job viewer tray...
[12:10] <Riddell> Lure: bah, use konqueror :)
[12:11] <Lure> Riddell: tried twice, still no go... but planning again... ;-)
[12:11] <Riddell> -1 from me
[12:11] <Riddell> go, vote..
[12:11] <uniq> +1
[12:11] <claydoh> -1
[12:11] <Tonio_> -1
[12:11] <Hobbsee> +1 - i know i keep looking up the printer module often enough
[12:12] <Lure> +1
[12:12] <Riddell> Hobbsee: why do you end up looking it up?
[12:12] <OdyX> 0
[12:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: there is another possibility
[12:12] <Tonio_> there is a submenu activable
[12:12] <Riddell> yuck, submenu's are evil
[12:13] <Tonio_> gives the same rederring than the "printers" submenu in windows
[12:13] <Hobbsee> Riddell: because it's hard to hear if the printer is actually finished, and im' often not sure where the printer has failed - ie, my computer, or between my computer and the printer.
[12:13] <Tonio_> anyone already tested this ?
[12:13] <uniq> I'll have to go to bed. nite kubuntuers.
[12:13] <OdyX> nite uniq
[12:13] <OdyX> Tonio_: howto ?
[12:13] <Tonio_> OdyX: showing a screenshot, plz wait ;)
[12:14] <Hobbsee> Riddell: anyway, do we want to discuss the other issues, then come back to this, as people have had a bit of time to think?  it's already a quarter thru the meeting :P
[12:14] <Hobbsee> morning kwwii 
[12:14] <Riddell> we could let kwwii decide
[12:14] <kwwii> hi Hobbsee
[12:14] <Riddell> kwwii: let us know what you decide on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/38573
[12:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38573 in kdebase "kubuntu_36_hide_kjobviewer_menu_entry.diff should be dropped" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
[12:14] <Riddell> ok, Tonio_, your item
[12:14] <Tonio_> http://planetemu.net/temp/capture8.png
[12:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: here it is
[12:15] <Tonio_> just to finish on this :)
[12:15] <Riddell> Tonio_: ug, a top level menu
[12:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's better to me that a kjobviewer entry in system or  something......... but well, let's go next item :)
[12:16] <OdyX> Tonio_: that's "to think about"...
[12:16] <Riddell> Tonio_: bogofilter..
[12:16] <yuriy> Tonio_: could that menu go within System?
[12:16] <saaida> what was the url for installing firefox 1.5 ? 
[12:16] <Tonio_> yes, so bogofilter has been removed
[12:16] <Tonio_> as our major aim for kubuntu is usability, I think that's an issue
[12:16] <Tonio_> it is not quite easy for a newbie to guess what are the compatibles antispam filters
[12:17] <Riddell> it looks like it's in main
[12:17] <Hobbsee> saaida: this is not a support channel.  see #kubuntu
[12:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, it was shiped by default with dapper, but isn't anymore
[12:17] <Riddell> Tonio_: any idea what's changed that it's not brought in now?
[12:17] <kwwii> Riddell: as someone who prints a lot, I find it nice to be able to open it easily...case 3 is exactly right - often things do not function as expected but you don't know that until 15min later (and you closed the pop-up cause you thought it would work)
[12:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: I didn't check deps in detail..... I will have to
[12:18] <Tonio_> I have to compare breezy to dapper on that point
[12:18] <OdyX> does bogofilter have any issues/bad comportements ?
[12:18] <Riddell> 3465kB, I'd say we afford that
[12:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: big advantage with bogofilter is that it is pretty light ressources compared to spamassassin
[12:19] <Riddell> Tonio_: does it need any setting up or does kmail use it automatically?
[12:19] <Tonio_> OdyX: bogofilter works nicelly as long as you tag correctly your mails
[12:19] <Riddell> hmm, you have to tag your e-mails?
[12:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: when you use kmail, simply use the antispam configuration assistant, and everything is automatic
[12:19] <Tonio_> as long as it is installed of course
[12:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes it is bayes based, so you have to tag to build black and white lists
[12:20] <Tonio_> same way than spamassassin anyway
[12:20] <Riddell> Tonio_: how do you tag?  is there a menu item that becomes available when you setup spam?
[12:20] <Tonio_> once you taggued a few mails, it starts making good job to me, about 95% spams detected
[12:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, you have buttons added to the interface automatically by the assistant
[12:21] <OdyX> Riddell: menu on right-clicks on mails or top-bar button.
[12:21] <Riddell> Tonio_: sounds great, I'll add it to the seeds
[12:21] <Tonio_> everything is really simple to configure and use, as long as you have a tool preinstalled
[12:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks :)
[12:21] <Lure> great
[12:22] <Riddell> ok, is Nirvana here?
[12:22] <Lure> Riddell: does not look like...
[12:22] <Riddell> guess not
[12:22] <Riddell> mvo has some plans to add screenshots to gnome-app-install in dapper+1
[12:22] <Riddell> which may be done through launchpad
[12:23] <Riddell> so something similar can be done for adept if someone wants to code it
[12:23] <Riddell> hmm, bogofilter is on this agenda twice :)
[12:23] <raphink> oh nice :)
[12:23] <OdyX> screenshots stored in debs or in launchpad ?
[12:23] <Riddell> OdyX: launchpad wuld be the best place
[12:24] <OdyX> sure.
[12:24] <Hobbsee> (if we cant stop duplicates on one wiki page, what chance do we have of avoiding duplicate bug reports??? :P )
[12:24] <Riddell> adding it to app-install-data would take up significant disk space
[12:24] <Riddell> ok, pef points us to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/41040
[12:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41040 in kdebase "Should be easier to choose printout mode (draft/normal/photo,...)" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
[12:24] <Lure> Hobbsee: lol
[12:25] <Riddell> which looks a lot like an upstream issue to me, redesigning the kde print dialogue is not best done by distros
[12:25] <toma> not at all indeed
[12:25] <Lure> Riddell: agree 
[12:25] <Riddell> toma: hmm?
[12:25] <Riddell> toma: to which point?
[12:26] <toma> your point
[12:26] <yuriy> i don't understand what is meant by adept screenshots
[12:26] <toma> hmm, other words: i think it is an upstream thing
[12:26] <Riddell> yep, pef if you read the logs, work with inorog on the issue
[12:26] <Riddell> so, kubuntu members
[12:26] <kwwii> Here is a usability side of the printer problem...my father-in-law complained that his computer was stuck in a loop because he tried to print one document and it kept printing them every hour or so...in the end it turned out that he had tried to print a 70MB file and cause it took so long he kept clicking, thinking it was not working...the queue had like 20 jobs in it
[12:26] <Lure> yuriy: adept would show screenshop (preview) of app that you may want to installl
[12:27] <raphink> yuriy: screenshots of programs to be added to program description
[12:27] <raphink> imo
[12:27] <yuriy> oh to the description
[12:27] <yuriy> interesting idea
[12:27] <Riddell> kwwii: yep, I think we'll add back the print job viewer to the menu 
[12:27] <yuriy> it would have to download them from launchpad or along with the package lists from apt then?
[12:27] <toma> kwwii: there was a prinitng summit recently, i think the conclusion was that printing can be improved a lot and there are people working on it 
[12:28] <Riddell> toma: there's still very little action from KDE on it
[12:28] <kwwii> toma: my point is, if he would have found the print queue utility he would have know
[12:28] <toma> (but that can take a while)
[12:28] <kwwii> but he kept closing them
[12:28] <kwwii> anyway...
[12:28] <kwwii> that is my opinion :-)
[12:29] <Riddell> so I now have the ability to make kubuntu members, which are equal to ubuntu members
[12:29] <Riddell> member needs to have made a sustained and substantial contribution, and sign the code of conduct etc
[12:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: equal ?? interesting ;)
[12:29] <Riddell> questions is what's the best way to accept people as members
[12:29] <Hobbsee> so, what's the idea - if you go for kubuntu membership, you dont have to go for ubuntu membership?
[12:29] <kwwii> blood
[12:29] <robotgeek> if i am a member of both teams, do i get something special :P
[12:30] <Riddell> Hobbsee: correct, they are exactly the same thing, you just get a different icon
[12:30] <raphink> Riddell: as we're talking about kdeprint, did you confirm the greyed list of printers when adding a new printer currently?
[12:30] <OdyX> robotgeek: A4 visit card.
[12:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: will members get @ubuntu.com address too ?
[12:30] <Riddell> raphink: nope, I didn't have that problem and neither has anyone else
[12:30] <Riddell> Tonio_: they'll get @kubuntu.org addresses if elmo works out how to do it
[12:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: very nice ;)
[12:31] <Riddell> as I understand it edubuntu are starting an edubuntu community council for this
[12:31] <kwwii> now that is cool
[12:31] <raphink> weird
[12:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: to my opinion a CC is the best for this yes
[12:31] <toma> Riddell: i found the kde eV method very good, 1 person suggest->2 agree->vote, but that depends on how many people would join. Maybe go straight to a vote would be ok.
[12:31] <raphink> oh interesting
[12:31] <raphink> :)
[12:31] <Riddell> we could have a kubuntu community council.  or we could have just use these meeting, 
[12:31] <OdyX> Tonio_: CC, with Kubuntu Members or Ubuntu Members ?
[12:31] <Riddell> or I could just have the final say
[12:32] <raphink> Tonio_: hehe
[12:32] <Riddell> toma: interesting idea, we could have a script set up to vote with the existing members
[12:32] <Hobbsee> i supect that would create more problems than it would fix - what if the person suddenly starts working on gnome?  what if they want to work on both at the same time?  we already have enough people asking for teh kubuntu repos, thinking they are separate to the ubuntu ones - does that mean we need a #kubuntu-motu as well?
[12:32] <claydoh> start small, then go to a kubuntu community council if it gets too unwieldy?
[12:32] <Hobbsee> mind you, i like the idea of hobbsee@kubuntu.com
[12:32] <Hobbsee> er, .org
[12:32] <Tonio_> OdyX: same than the ubuntu CC, every member gives his opinion, and a team of people is designed to take the decision
[12:33] <Riddell> Hobbsee: since kubuntu memebership is exactly the same as ubuntu membership this doesn't change stuff like everyone working in #ubuntu-motu
[12:33] <Tonio_> it works well for ubuntu actually, so why would we do differently ?
[12:33] <OdyX> Tonio_: Yeah.. I understand that.. but would there be a Kubuntu CC (KCC) ?
[12:33] <raphink> Hobbsee: not .com
[12:33] <Tonio_> OdyX: supposedly yes
[12:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i'm worried that people will start thinking that kubuntu/ubuntu memberships are different
[12:34] <Hobbsee> raphink: yeah, i fixed it
[12:34] <Lure> Tonio_: I think CC would be better (more clear), but then you need to define how CC is elected...
[12:34] <Riddell> Hobbsee: it just emphasises the parts you work on most
[12:34] <yuriy> so what would actually be the point/benefit of being a kubuntu "member" other than a cool email address?
[12:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: or that people will try to go for kubuntu just to get membership on kubuntu, if it's easier than ubuntu's, then switch over...
[12:34] <robotgeek> yuriy: more work, more responsibility :)
[12:34] <Hobbsee> hmmm..right
[12:35] <Lure> Or just Riddell changes his nick to ksabdfl?
[12:35] <Lure> ;-)
[12:35] <toma> good question yuriy
[12:35] <robotgeek> lol
[12:35] <Tonio_> Lure: LOL ^^
[12:35] <Hobbsee> yuriy: a cool hostmask that makes you look like you know what you're talkign about :P
[12:35] <ajmitch> yuriy: it's more for delegation to the teams where people work
[12:35] <OdyX> Lure: +1
[12:35] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[12:35] <Riddell> yuriy: mostly it's a sign of commitment, it also means you get to vote on community council and tech board members, and it's a requirement for getting upload rights
[12:35] <Tonio_> Lure: why not, riddell decides the kcc and then the kcc decides the members
[12:35] <Tonio_> that makes sense
[12:35] <Riddell> Hobbsee: this is indeed something we'll have to be careful of
[12:36] <toma> Riddell: in that case, i would think it is wise to vote between all members and you being able to override it at any time.
[12:36] <yuriy> Riddell, ajmitch: thanks, good answer
[12:37] <OdyX> I think (with all respect to you Riddell) that "one person  responsability" is dangerous. For the beginning, it's normal, but then, a concil is good.
[12:37] <Hobbsee> is it such a bad thing to go to the CC, and get membership that way?  i know they're kinda harsh at times, and a bit scary...but i would not want to separate the distros more than they already are
[12:37] <yuriy> Hobbsee: lol yeah that's what I was thinking.
[12:37] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: it's the CC that wants the teams to take responsibility for it, iirc
[12:38] <toma> in about a year, how many people do you expect in the kcc?
[12:38] <ajmitch> I think that the kubuntu-members would be a sub-team of ubuntu-members, so anyone added to k-m is automatically in both
[12:38] <ajmitch> (just speculation)
[12:38] <Lure> Hobbsee: I also understand current CC - it will not scale if you count also LoCo approvals, and governance stuff
[12:38] <Hobbsee> Also, we dont know everything - Riddell has a far greater understanding than we do of who fits where - how are we to vote on someone we've never heard much about, if they've not been on irc?  i've only found out that amu did the cds, recently!
[12:38] <OdyX> ajmitch: that's what planning said, AFAIR
[12:38] <Tonio_> ajmitch: that can be a bit confusing no ?
[12:38] <Lure> it makes sense to have some delgation of authority to subgrups of size of Kubuntu or Edubuntu.
[12:38] <yuriy> ajmitch: then whoever decides who is in ubuntu-members HAS to have a say here, not just Riddell or kcc
[12:38] <ajmitch> Tonio_: simple once you see it :)
[12:38] <Riddell> toma: if we had a community council I'd say 5 or 6 members
[12:38] <Kamion> ajmitch: yes, that's how it's set up, see down at the end of https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers
[12:38] <Tonio_> ajmitch: most people contributing on the kde part are not especially involved in gnome
[12:39] <Tonio_> and ubuntu  = gnome in the spirit of many
[12:39] <Lure> ajmitch: that is the fact already - see launchpad
[12:39] <ajmitch> right
[12:39] <OdyX> Tonio_: this maybe has to be changes "upstream"
[12:39] <toma> Riddell: in that case a simple majority should be ok, on an equal amount of votes, you decide.
[12:39] <toma> just mho
[12:40] <Kamion> yuriy: we're content to delegate this; if it turns out to be a problem we can always reconsider
[12:40] <Riddell> Hobbsee: if we had a kcc then whoever was on it would have to be in touch with the community, but mostly the community is on #kubuntu-devel except loco teams
[12:40] <OdyX> more in "Ubuntu = Good base + [Gnome/KDE/...] " or Ubuntu = good base.
[12:40] <Kamion> hi
[12:40] <Hobbsee> Riddell: that's true.
[12:41] <Riddell> I worry with a kcc that things might get to beurocratic, e.g. we don't have that many meetings and someone might not be able to turn up at the times we do
[12:41] <Riddell> Kamion: do you know if CC had any expectation of how kubuntu and edubuntu would handle this?
[12:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's a good way to oblige us making more meetings ;)
[12:42] <toma> (which might be good anyways)
[12:42] <Tonio_> but seriously, I agree with on that point
[12:42] <Hobbsee> one other point:  if we cant vote easily on something relatively simple such as printer settings, and quickly, is it really fair to leave the people in limbo for that long while we vote for 10 mins?  I'd like to avoid burocreacy as much as possible, and i suspect that's what we'll be creating
[12:42] <Lure> Riddell: I think one meeting per month should be enough for start
[12:42] <Kamion> Riddell: I wasn't really in on the details, was mostly sabdfl/elmo I think
[12:43] <Kamion> Riddell: I don't think we expected you to need to create a whole clone of the CC structure etc. right away
[12:43] <kwwii> I get the feeling that I voted the wrong way on the printer thing
[12:43] <Kamion> the basic impetus was just so that @kubuntu.org addresses could be created independently
[12:43] <Kamion> (more or less)
[12:44] <Kamion> Riddell: you can always punt folks to the CC if you feel they've made wider contributions than just kubuntu
[12:44] <OdyX> Kamion: you mean  "half-members" ?
[12:44] <Kamion> Riddell: I'd certainly be wary of setting up something that requires lots of voting and stuff before you get used to how things are feeling
[12:45] <Kamion> heh, actually I just checked in LP and anyone who's a member of kubuntu-members is automatically a member of ubuntumembers, not the other way round
[12:45] <Kamion> OdyX: so no, I don't mean half-members
[12:45] <Riddell> can I propose we have a poll on 1) creating a KCC or 2) having me make the decisions based on asking people informally
[12:45] <Kamion> it's a system of delegation, not a tiered ystem
[12:46] <Kamion> system
[12:46] <Riddell> given Kamion's comments I'm leaning towards 2)
[12:46] <Riddell> anyone want to propose other options?
[12:46] <toma> simple voting system at malone?
[12:46] <yuriy> I don't see how voting for people at monthly meetings is a big issue.  After the initial bunch of people already contributing become members, somebody will need a few weeks to show "sustained contribution" anyways and then they can be voted on at a meeting at the end of the month.
[12:46] <robotgeek> I'm also with 2) with the possibility to vote 'offline'
[12:46] <Kamion> sorry, obviously it's up to you, I'm not intending to try to lean on you
[12:46] <raphink> Kamion: which seems prettty logical, since kubuntu is a specific case of ubuntu
[12:46] <raphink> and not the contrary
[12:47] <Riddell> so 3) voting based on existing members
[12:48] <toma> 3++
[12:48] <raphink> I'd say 2)
[12:48] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I'd add a 4) don't approve anyone and send them all to CC but it's CC's choice to delegate it to us
[12:48] <Tonio_> I'd say 2) too, but 3 can also be a nice option
[12:48] <Hobbsee> ah darn
[12:48] <Hobbsee> Riddell: with 3, what does that mean?  the existing members voting on the new ones?
[12:49] <Riddell> Hobbsee: yes
[12:49] <robotgeek> How about using https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-members/+polls for members?
[12:49] <Hobbsee> gotcha
[12:49] <Hobbsee> robotgeek: leaving people in limbo is pretty mean
[12:49] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: how would that be leaving people in limbo (you have x votes, you are approved)
[12:49] <Lure> I would say 3) 
[12:49] <toma> its not going to take ages to have a poll with 5/6 people
[12:49] <yuriy> with 3) then we have to start with 2) to get members in the first place?
[12:50] <raphink> I think 3 is too complicate
[12:50] <Riddell> the trouble with 3) is we don't have a way to discuss things
[12:50] <Hobbsee> robotgeek: ah ok, i thought you were going for half way points....so you'd have to wait ages for all the required votes
[12:50] <Lure> robotgeek: to formal - I think a bit of discussion on meeting is appropraite
[12:50] <raphink> cause "everyone" is not easy to define
[12:50] <raphink> unless that means all members present
[12:50] <Riddell> raphink: yes
[12:50] <toma> Riddell: you can announce the poll by email, explaining thinks, but i agree that is not a discussion.
[12:51] <Lure> raphink: I would suggest simple amjority of present members (+ minimal of 3/5 present)?
[12:51] <raphink> robotgeek: does this system accept comments?
[12:51] <Lure> s/amjority/majority
[12:51] <robotgeek> raphink: not sure, i just saw this, no idea how it works :)
[12:51] <raphink> Riddell: in this case it could be used, using comments as a discussion thread
[12:51] <Riddell> raphink: I don't think it does
[12:52] <raphink> Lure: so a relative majority
[12:52] <raphink> Lure: I don't really agree with that
[12:52] <raphink> because most people who apply to membership are obviously supported 
[12:53] <raphink> so in the case of 3), most people will come with their support team
[12:53] <Tonio_> raphink: ++
[12:53] <raphink> and this is not a neutral decision in this case
[12:53] <Lure> raphink: right...
[12:53] <OdyX> 3) includes "existing members", huh ?
[12:53] <Hobbsee> raphink: +1
[12:54] <raphink> in my idea, people should have avocates to apply, but their advocates shouldn't vote
[12:54] <robotgeek> raphink: care to elaborate?
[12:54] <Hobbsee> so...people will refuse to advocate, because they're needed to vote?
[12:54] <toma> raphink: you can not so that, in a group of 5/6
[12:54] <Lure> when I think again, small (3 member?) KCC with 1 year mandate, elected from all members is not a bad idea...
[12:55] <raphink> I think someone who deserves membership can find at least one member to support his application
[12:55] <raphink> this person should come and advocate the candidate
[12:55] <raphink> but not take part in the vote
[12:55] <freeflying> raphink: that really like debian's
[12:55] <raphink> Lure: sure
[12:55] <toma> again, the group is too smal to do that
[12:56] <OdyX> too small "yet" ?
[12:56] <raphink> 1 year mandate is a bit long maybe
[12:56] <raphink> but the idea seems nice imo
[12:56] <Riddell> toma: you're now talking about 5/6 people, that's the KCC idea
[12:56] <raphink> freeflying: indeed
[12:56] <Lure> raphink: why? this is only two releases ;-)
[12:56] <raphink> sure
[12:56] <raphink> Lure: how long have you  been around?
[12:56] <toma> ah, ok.
[12:56] <robotgeek> there are 15 members, just for info
[12:57] <raphink> ;)
[12:57] <Lure> raphink: around kubuntu-devel? From Jan/Feb or so...
[12:57] <Lure> ;-)
[12:58] <raphink> mhm
[12:58] <toma> why don't you try to do it with a poll between all members and when that turns out bad, create a kcc.
[12:59] <Hobbsee> Riddell: also, with IRC hostmasks, would they get changed to say ubuntu/member/hobbsee or kubuntu/member/hobbsee - if the latter, what does that mean for those of us who are ops in both channels - will people stop listing if the hostmask says kubuntu, saying that they cant be authorities in here, as they dont use gnome?  (warning:  semi formed idea, it's still early :P )
[12:59] <Lure> toma: first question: who defines "exisitng members"  oto kick-start? every ubuntu-members that declares itself as such?
[12:59] <raphink> ok
[12:59] <Riddell> I think the launchpad poll thing could work
[12:59] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I don't have any plans to get kubuntu freenode masks
[01:00] <Riddell> Lure: see https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-team/
[01:00] <Hobbsee> right, cool :)
[01:00] <toma> Lure: https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-members/+members
[01:00] <raphink> so...
[01:00] <Riddell> Hobbsee: although we probably could do without any problems
[01:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: please dont.
[01:00] <raphink> yeah
[01:00] <Riddell> Hobbsee: ok, sorted
[01:01] <raphink> I think in some cases, membership is just obvious
[01:01] <raphink> for everybody
[01:01] <Hobbsee> Riddell: :P  that's gotta be the quickest agreement ever in history for a kubuntu meeting!
[01:01] <Riddell> annoyingly no clear best way has presented itself for the kubuntu memebers question
[01:01] <raphink> and there's no need for a meeting to decide about it
[01:01] <Riddell> shall we take a poll again?
[01:02] <toma> evaluate a system after a few tries...
[01:02] <Riddell> 1) kcc, 2) ksabdfl, 3) vote amongst existing members
[01:02] <yuriy> toma: OH so the team is already there and has members. i was confused.
[01:02] <OdyX> 3) with 2) veto ?
[01:02] <Tonio_> 1) and 3) as second option
[01:03] <Lure> 1
[01:03] <OdyX> for not having "obvious campain comitee" ?
[01:03] <yuriy> what is the difference between kubuntu-team and kubuntu-members?
[01:03] <Hobbsee> 1
[01:03] <Riddell> yuriy: kubuntu-team is less formal, doesn't include ubuntu membership
[01:04] <raphink> yuriy: kubuntu-team is the bug contact for malone
[01:04] <Riddell> that too
[01:04] <Riddell> interestingly we already have 3 proposed members for kubuntu-members who I've never hard of
[01:04] <raphink> actually kubuntu-team is not even an equivalent of ubuntu-devel
[01:04] <Riddell> heard
[01:04] <raphink> since there are non-dev members in it
[01:04] <Riddell> anyone know LIVRON, PeppeP, itsdebtosh?
[01:05] <Hobbsee> no x3
[01:05] <Riddell> raphink: it's equivent of desktop-team I think
[01:05] <raphink> mhm
[01:05] <raphink> Riddell: well if as sabdfl proposed we get a TB, there might be to approve kubuntu devels aswell
[01:05] <OdyX> who is meant to apply to kubuntu-team ?
[01:05] <raphink> and the need to have a kubuntu-devel group as there is an ubuntu-devel one
[01:05] <Riddell> raphink: where did he propose that?
[01:06] <raphink> or did I misunderstand his statement?
[01:06] <Riddell> OdyX: anyone who helps with kubuntu, feel free to sign up
[01:06] <raphink> hmm let's see
[01:06] <OdyX> Riddell: thanks ;-)
[01:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: never heard of them
[01:06] <raphink> "
[01:06] <raphink> During the course of these discussions I would like us to nominate a core
[01:06] <raphink> leadership team for Kubuntu which can take overall technical
[01:06] <raphink> responsibility for the desktop
[01:07] <raphink> obviously that doesn't not  _exactly_ mean TB
[01:07] <Kamion> raphink: ubuntu-dev is upload privileges, that won't be split out for kubuntu for quite some time
[01:07] <raphink> but this is what the TB does 
[01:07] <raphink> for ubuntu
[01:07] <OdyX> Riddell: wait.. kubuntu-team is sub-group of kubuntu-members...
[01:07] <raphink> Kamion: ok, thanks for making this clear :)
[01:07] <Kamion> raphink: the two share an archive, so it's not sane to split out the privileges currently
[01:07] <Riddell> OdyX: other way around if anything
[01:08] <raphink> sure Kamion 
[01:09] <Hobbsee> actually, i'm rather in favour of having a top level team, such as raphink and Riddell, and maybe tonio or something, i'm not sure who else - who takes responsibility - instead of just Riddell.  What i see is that this team would be the KCC, control the meetings, make sure everything's on track, and people have something to do, etc.  It seems that there are so many people here, that to get agreement and direction on much is kinda difficult.
[01:09] <Lure> Hobbsee: +1
[01:09] <Hobbsee> it's rather hard to do something, if you dont know what to do :P
[01:10] <Riddell> our poll was kindae split between 1) and 3)
[01:10] <Hobbsee> these people would be approved by the general majority
[01:10] <Riddell> but Mark does seem to be suggesting some sort of committee for kubuntu to be discussed at linuxtag
[01:10] <toma> i like Hobbsee's idea here..
[01:10] <Hobbsee> (woot
[01:10] <Riddell> Yann2: it would have to be more than three, otherwise people often don't turn up
[01:10] <Hobbsee> ! i'm getting approval!)
[01:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes mark seems to have plans for kubuntu on those points
[01:11] <toma> then delay it untill after the linuxTag
[01:11] <yuriy> yeah I also agree a KCC sounds the most sensible. 3 or 5 people
[01:11] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: of course, it's a reasonable idea :)
[01:11] <Riddell> so I propose that after linuxtag we look at what Mark and us have decided and use that as a framework for the membership stuff
[01:12] <Lure> toma: probably makes sense - and it will be easier to discuss there ...
[01:12] <toma> ++
[01:12] <Riddell> great, a decision :)
[01:12] <Lure> Riddell: ++
[01:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: hehe
[01:12] <Riddell> Hobbsee: kppp and krfb
[01:12] <ajmitch> Riddell: I'm impressed
[01:13] <Hobbsee> yeah, kpp and krfb - quick question - anyone use these, or know of people on IRC who do?
[01:13] <freeflying> Hobbsee: that shall be a KCC
[01:13] <robotgeek> hmm, i tried kfrb once, never again!
[01:13] <OdyX> Hobbsee: raphink and I used it "once".
[01:13] <toma> Hobbsee: i use it to take over desktop of some of my customers
[01:14] <robotgeek> but that was a long time ago
[01:14] <Hobbsee> i'm subscribed to the kdenetwork section, but i dont have those to test with...
[01:14] <Riddell> people who use IRC may well not use kppp if they have to pay for their dialup time
[01:14] <Hobbsee> true, good point
[01:14] <yuriy> krfb is a fairly nice interface, but it doesn't really work.
[01:14] <Hobbsee> email also works
[01:14] <Hobbsee> i'm just looking for testers
[01:14] <Riddell> Hobbsee: what's the problem testing krfb, can't you setup a local server to connect to?
[01:14] <toma> yuriy: why not?
[01:14] <Tonio_> yuriy: krfb works perfectly.....
[01:14] <kwwii> I have one question: what is, in everyones eyes, the next most important thing to take care of art-wise?
[01:14] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i've only got my own machine here
[01:14] <yuriy> well, in my experience and i guess robotgeek's
[01:14] <OdyX> Hobbsee: you need to be able to redirect ports of router.
[01:14] <Tonio_> yuriy: and the client (talking about interface) is krdc, not krfb :)
[01:14] <raphink> krfb works great
[01:15] <toma> yep
[01:15] <Tonio_> raphink: absolutly
[01:15] <yuriy> by interface I meant just the dialog it give you to set it up. UI not client.
[01:15] <yuriy> 1 sec i'll find the bug
[01:15] <Tonio_> yuriy: okay, sorry ;)
[01:15] <Riddell> Hobbsee: you can use krfb as the server and connect to your local machine with krdc
[01:15] <Hobbsee> kwwii: hmm...without having seen the kdm, probably the splash screen, adn make it all nice and shiny and pretty
[01:15] <Riddell> Hobbsee: it gets a bit trippy at times, but it does work
[01:15] <raphink> and it's very useful
[01:15] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ah ok, interesting...
[01:15] <raphink> I often suggest to use krfb/krdc when helping users in desperate cases 
[01:15] <kwwii> Riddell: and...can I add a short overview of the kubuntu artwork until now to the wiki page for the meeting on Saturday?
[01:15] <robotgeek> damn, i got confused with kxfb. <sigh> i did use krfb too, i just use freenx now
[01:15] <Riddell> kwwii: please do
[01:16] <kwwii> Hobbsee: we did KDM already :-) although maybe we should work on the bg of that a bit?
[01:16] <Riddell> robotgeek: kxfb is an nxclient for kde?
[01:16] <toma> robotgeek: thats something totally differen
[01:16] <yuriy> bug 39046
[01:16] <Hobbsee> kwwii: i'm not sure, i'm using a custom kdmrc, and i havent figured out how to change it back yet...
[01:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39046 in kdenetwork "krfb crashes when a connected client move mouse" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39046
[01:16] <robotgeek> toma: i know, i got confuzzled :)
[01:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: I think the client is knx
[01:16] <Riddell> yes
[01:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: never heard of that kxfb
[01:16] <robotgeek> Riddell: kxfb is a start button or something, sorry for confusion
[01:17] <Hobbsee> while i'm the one who's discussing things here, can we get rid of that horrible thing called kwifimanager, or at least, hide it on the menus?
[01:17] <Tonio_> robotgeek: ahhhhhhhh ys tou're tight :)
[01:17] <yuriy> ok i should be more specific. krfb has problems when you connect to it with a different vnc client
[01:17] <Tonio_> robotgeek: linspire uses this
[01:17] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I think for kppp testing you'll need to put out a call on the kubuntu-devel mailing list
[01:17] <Tonio_> yuriy: it is slower and then krfb uses big resources, you're right
[01:17] <raphink> Tonio_: this is a kicker applet to replace the K Menu and look like the fancy XP menu
[01:17] <Hobbsee> it's a piece of rubbish, it doesnt work, it's never worked, and it tends to lie about networks.  see the bug reports for it.  it also lies about IP addresses, and sayign you're connected when in actual fact you arent.
[01:17] <toma> yuriy: my collegea uses a mac without problems to connect to them
[01:18] <Tonio_> raphink: I know ;)
[01:18] <Riddell> Hobbsee: kppp isn't really maintained in KDE as far as I can tell
[01:18] <Lure> Riddell: kppp bugs looks like just giving better out-of-box config...
[01:18] <Hobbsee> Riddell: is there another tool for it?   knm is eventually going to contain dialup stuff, isnt it?
[01:18] <Lure> Hobbsee: I could try kppp (if my modem in laptop works) with local dialup ISP for test
[01:19] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I'm not sure, in suse it just calls yast I think
[01:19] <Riddell> I wonder what gnome network-manager does
[01:19] <freeflying> Riany tools for configure ADSL.etc in kde now 
[01:19] <Riddell> I suspect it's not built-in their either
[01:19] <Riddell> freeflying: what's that?
[01:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: gnome network-manager simply doesn't have any ppp features
[01:19] <freeflying> Riddell: any tools for configure ADSL.etc in kde now ?
[01:19] <Tonio_> that's knetworkmanager specific, since it is developped by suse
[01:19] <Riddell> freeflying: no, do you need some?
[01:20] <Riddell> Tonio_: right
[01:20] <freeflying> Riddell: sure
[01:20] <Hobbsee> freeflying: it tends to work by default, doesnt it?
[01:20] <Riddell> freeflying: have you tried knet?
[01:20] <freeflying> Rihaven't yet
[01:20] <freeflying> haven't yet
[01:20] <Riddell> freeflying: let me know if that's what you need
[01:20] <Riddell> Hobbsee: can you put a call out on the mailing list then?
[01:21] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yep, okay then.
[01:21] <Riddell> ok, linuxtag
[01:21] <Riddell> Yann2: poke
[01:21] <freeflying> Hobbsee: pppoe can work defautly?
[01:21] <Yann2> . :)
[01:21] <Hobbsee> freeflying: oh, i thought you meant something else, my errors.
[01:22] <Riddell> just wanting to inform everyone that Mark wants me and him and anyone else to have meetings with KDE people at linuxtag
[01:22] <Riddell> raphink: can you come to that?
[01:22] <freeflying> Riddell: can knet be in main
[01:22] <Riddell> if anyone has ideas on what to put at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuLinuxTagMeetings I'd welcome that
[01:22] <freeflying> or include in install cd 
[01:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: I will be there on saturday
[01:22] <Riddell> freeflying: sure, if it works for you then probably lots of people need it
[01:22] <Riddell> Tonio_: great
[01:22] <Tonio_> so if it is saturday, I will be there
[01:23] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes, it's saturday
[01:23] <raphink> Riddell: sure
[01:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: perfect then :)
[01:23] <freeflying> Riddell: too many guys in china need it  :)
[01:23] <raphink> Riddell: i'll be at LT and surely at these meetings
[01:23] <Tonio_> 9 hours train for one day in linuxtag......
[01:23] <raphink> esp. on saturday which is ubuntu love day
[01:23] <Riddell> raphink: have you heard from mdy about your talk?
[01:23] <Lure> Riddell: I would like to come, but flight/train connections are bad (and I cannot leave before Fri)
[01:23] <OdyX> Tonio_: could be bus...
[01:23] <Tonio_> OdyX: lol
[01:24] <Riddell> the kde-ev list seems quite interested in these meetings
[01:24] <raphink> hmmm
[01:24] <Riddell> I've no idea what to expect really, but it should be interesting
[01:24] <toma> Riddell: I see Eva's name
[01:24] <Riddell> toma: yep
[01:25] <Riddell> eva's quite a big kubuntu fangirl
[01:25] <toma> and scott and daniel, wow. 
[01:25] <OdyX> We started a general discussion on -fr forums. Users are wondered about Kubuntu's future IN Ubuntu...
[01:25] <raphink> Riddell: yes
[01:25] <OdyX> this could be interestingly discussed with Mark...
[01:25] <kwwii> Riddell: I talked to Eva on the phone yesterday (I am doing a contract for her company) and she asked me about this stuff :-)
[01:25] <freeflying> Riddell: how about the grub install failure of kubuntu
[01:26] <Riddell> freeflying: hang on, we're still on linuxtag
[01:26] <Riddell> OdyX: what sort of thing are they wondering?
[01:26] <OdyX> like if Kubuntu would be seperating of Ubuntu, to have Kde-based releases...
[01:27] <apokryphos> interesting
[01:27] <Riddell> OdyX: I doubt it, especailly since KDE won't be releasing again for probably 10 months 
[01:27] <Riddell> but longer term, maybe
[01:27] <apokryphos> (/me notes that of course many people are also thinking about Canonical's dedication to Kubuntu as well, these days)
[01:27] <OdyX> like about the fact that Ubuntu is more a base and should maybe not be associated with Gnome...
[01:27] <raphink> OdyX: seems kamion gave a clear answer on this
[01:27] <Riddell> I suspect Mark just hopes KDE will move to time based releases, which would be lovely but unlikly to happen
[01:27] <yuriy> OdyX: I don't think that's an issue until at least dapper+2 when it might be sensible to waight for a stable release of kde4
[01:27] <eric_p> Riddell: most people in french forum were against separate release cycle
[01:28] <Riddell> eric_p: so am i at this stage
[01:28] <OdyX> so am I.. just reporting questions
[01:28] <Riddell> apokryphos: wait until we have shipit in June, that'll be a noticable dedication
[01:28] <apokryphos> indeed :). Very happy that's happening.
[01:28] <OdyX> I think Kubuntu's future as distribution (and no variant/taste) of Ubuntu should be discussed.
[01:28] <raphink> I don't want separate realease either
[01:29] <toma> could we focus on linuxtag for now
[01:29] <Tonio_> I'm sorry guys, but I have to wait very early tomorrow..... I have to go.....
[01:29] <Tonio_> note all
[01:29] <apokryphos> yeah, was a little annoying last time that on slashdot there was "Ubuntu 5.10 released!" ....and no mention of Kubuntu :/
[01:29] <eric_p> note that KDE devs will never accept time based release
[01:29] <Yann2> I think Kubuntu should be part of the more global "Ubuntu" project :)
[01:29] <ajmitch> bye Tonio_ 
[01:29] <Tonio_> s/note/nite
[01:29] <OdyX> bye Tonio_
[01:29] <apokryphos> 'night
[01:30] <OdyX> Yann2: wouldn't that mean a separation between Gnome and Ubuntu ?
[01:30] <toma> is the plan like having a seperate room for kubuntu meetings all saterday and only saterday?
[01:30] <robotgeek> later folks, gotta run
[01:30] <Riddell> toma: not all saturday but for a few hours yes
[01:30] <toma> i counted 200+ minutes already ;-)
[01:31] <Riddell> ok, we're running late
[01:31] <Riddell> if anyone has other suggestions for linuxtag do let me know
[01:31] <Riddell> and I'll report back on blog/mailing list etc
[01:31] <Riddell> anyone object to me removing kuickshow?
[01:31] <toma> nope, but whats the replacement?
[01:31] <apokryphos> kuickshow sucks :P
[01:32] <apokryphos> gwenview
[01:32] <Riddell> it's obsoleted by gwenview/digikam/kimdama as far as I'm concerned
[01:32] <Lure> Riddell: it would be nice if somebody would take notes and report back to others that will not be there
[01:32] <toma> ieee
[01:32] <Lure> (meeting minutes or so)
[01:32] <Riddell> toma: we never included kuickshow in main, but now it's being removed from the distro completely because we don't want to use imlib
[01:32] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you didn't miss much
[01:32] <raphink> Hobbsee: kuickshow is obsolete
[01:33] <Hobbsee> hehe true
[01:33] <raphink> it hasn't been maintained for 3 years
[01:33] <kwwii> Riddell: that might cause a bit of a stir, but I think it should be removed
[01:33] <toma> digikam is albummanagement, so not an option. showfoto would be (patched without splash)
[01:33] <kwwii> gwenview has drawbacks as well
[01:33] <Riddell> kwwii: I think it might with some of the older KDE users
[01:33] <apokryphos> digikam is getting better and better very quickly these days
[01:33] <kwwii> Riddell: exactly
[01:34] <Riddell> but nobody here's objecting, so decision made
[01:34] <kwwii> yepp :-)
[01:34] <Riddell> any other business?
[01:34] <toma> apokryphos: but not to view a single image quickly
[01:34] <apokryphos> indeed
[01:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: do we want to create a #kubuntu+1 channel? 
[01:34] <Hobbsee> where do we hold the kuubntu dapper stuff?  #kubuntu or #ubuntu+1?
[01:34] <apokryphos> toma: as you said, its speciality is photo management.
[01:34] <Riddell> Hobbsee: for discussing edgy?
[01:34] <Hobbsee> er, dapper at this point..
[01:34] <toma> apokryphos: i know ;-)
[01:35] <Riddell> Hobbsee: so this would be for users to discuss using dapper?
[01:35] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes
[01:35] <apokryphos> would be a good idea
[01:35] <apokryphos> people get shoved between those two quite a bit sometimes
[01:35] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I don't think there would be enough people in it
[01:35] <Hobbsee> i'm half in favour of keeping them all in #kubuntu
[01:35] <OdyX> #ubuntu-fr+1 exists for straight a long time..
[01:35] <Hobbsee> but they are being shoved to #ubuntu+1, then dont get help for kde related problems
[01:35] <Riddell> yes, I'd say keep them in #kubuntu
[01:35] <robotgeek> people half expect #kbuntu+1
[01:35] <Hobbsee> okay, cool
[01:35] <Riddell> and if they know what they're talking about and talking about useful stuff point them to #kubuntu-devel
[01:36] <Lure> Riddell: yes - we need them to fix bugs, not just complain
[01:36] <Lure> ;-)
[01:36] <Riddell> Lure: yes please :)
[01:36] <Hobbsee> topic changed
[01:36] <Riddell> kwwii: any artwork stuff to bring up?
[01:36] <Hobbsee> Riddell: right, gotcha
[01:37] <Riddell> freeflying: you had something to bring up?
[01:37] <freeflying> Riddell: the grub install failure
[01:37] <kwwii> Riddell: well, I would like to know where to go next
[01:37] <Riddell> freeflying: I've not seen grub fail to install, is this text installer or ubiquity?
[01:37] <kwwii> I guess the installer
[01:37] <freeflying> Riddell: text installer, I've been asked times 
[01:38] <Riddell> freeflying: don't know I'm afraid, if you still have the problem with beta 2 let me know and i'll look into it
[01:38] <Riddell> kwwii: yes, artwork for ubiquity would be cool
[01:39] <Riddell> would be fun to have kde ubiquity looking better than gtk ubiquity :)
[01:39] <kwwii> :-)
[01:39] <Riddell> kwwii: example content would be good to have soon
[01:39] <Riddell> and not very difficult, you just need to learn some basic .deb packaging
[01:40] <kwwii> I guess you still need the different icon sizes for adept notify and spresso
[01:40] <Riddell> kwwii: yeah, please
[01:40] <kwwii> Riddell: what kind of content do we want?
[01:40] <freeflying> Riddell: knet seems not stable enough now
[01:40] <Riddell> kwwii: well, we have adept notifyer icon but if you have an svg of it that would be good to have for soures sake
[01:40] <Riddell> kwwii: apt-get source example-content
[01:41] <Riddell> kwwii: and make kubuntu versions of anything with an ubuntu theme
[01:41] <kwwii> Riddell: yeah, seen that...kind of a mix of strange things :-)
[01:41] <Riddell> kwwii: if you have ideas for cool things in there that would be fun, but it's mostly so people can easily test that the apps all work
[01:41] <Riddell> Hobbsee: you have an item?
[01:42] <Hobbsee> Riddell: is wlassistant going to go itno main?
[01:42] <kwwii> I mean, we could put all the svg sources from all the graphics in one place as well...kinda like a dapper-artwork-source package
[01:42] <Hobbsee> urgh, it's unreviewed, as is knm.
[01:42] <Riddell> Hobbsee: yes, it's been reviewed and they said they'd be looking at anastacia tomorrow or next week so it'll go in very soon
[01:42] <Hobbsee> excellent, so the wiki page isnt up to date
[01:43] <Riddell> Hobbsee: if you look at the individual pages it should say reviewed at the bottom
[01:43] <Hobbsee> i therefore suggest that we remove kwifimanager from the kmenu
[01:43] <Riddell> Hobbsee: if it's not been put on the MainReviewQueue page in the right place please fix that
[01:43] <Hobbsee> seeing as it's depreciated, and has never worked very well
[01:43] <Riddell> Hobbsee: yes, I'll drop kwifimanager as soon as wlassistant is in
[01:43] <Hobbsee> will do
[01:43] <Hobbsee> and what about those bug reports?  kill them as unsupported?
[01:43] <freeflying> Riddell: how about include ktranslator in main
[01:44] <Riddell> Hobbsee: it'll still be in universe, but in practicce we can ignore them and point people at wlassistant
[01:44] <Hobbsee> right, good, thanks :)
[01:44] <Riddell> freeflying: what does it do?
[01:44] <Riddell> well, I can guess I suppose
[01:44] <Riddell> what does it do that babelfish doesn't?
[01:44] <freeflying> Riddell: a dictionary 
[01:45] <freeflying> It can support many languages, and works fine
[01:45] <Riddell> freeflying: please write a main inclusion report, and I'll take a look at it
[01:45] <Riddell> any other business?
[01:45] <Hobbsee> oh yes, someone needs to have a bit of a look at the network settings module in system settings - it keeps crashing.  my inbox is now full of bug reports :P
[01:46] <Hobbsee> Riddell: not that i know of - i want breakfast!
[01:46] <toma> ok, well i moved it to Meeting+1, but since i'm still up, I might as well say something about it... I can hack a little bit and would like to help out with easy todo's, but it seems difficult for me to get a grip on what you guys are doing and where I can help. I can imagen there are others also. It would be great to have easy todo's, short time frames, overseeable things. 
[01:46] <Hobbsee> toma: +50 million
[01:46] <Riddell> Hobbsee: Lure has already been brilliant and done some fixes, but there's still more problems with it that do need fixed
[01:46] <Hobbsee> Riddell: gotcha, cool
[01:46] <toma> Hobbsee: ?
[01:46] <Riddell> Hobbsee: but I think the crashes should have gone away so you can mark bugs as "does this still happen in beta 2"
[01:46] <Hobbsee> toma: at your idea :P
[01:46] <toma> Hobbsee: oki
[01:46] <toma> ;-)
[01:47] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah, i'll do that
[01:47] <Riddell> toma: have you seen HelpingKubuntu?
[01:47] <Riddell> it's a bit out of date now
[01:47] <Kamion> freeflying: anything in the text installer won't be Kubuntu-specific
[01:47] <toma> Riddell: i looked at it, but they seem like large projects iirc
[01:47] <Riddell> Hobbsee: might want to wait until beta 2 is actually out first, I guess that'll happen tomorrow
[01:47] <Kamion> to an extremely good first approximation
[01:47] <Kamion> Riddell: it's out
[01:48] <toma> (hmm, i might be confused with malones todo's here)
[01:48] <freeflying> Kamion: if can be install from hdd media more easier will be nice 
[01:48] <Riddell> Kamion: tomorrow?
[01:48] <Kamion> Riddell: now
[01:48] <Kamion> freeflying: see the installation guide
[01:49] <Lure> Hobbsee: can you assign bugs in knetworkconf to kdeadmin package - I did not have time yet to dive into kdebase and meta
[01:49] <Kamion> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-April/000072.html
[01:49] <Riddell> toma: would it help if I made more specific projects for the bug day?
[01:49] <Lure> then I will be able to triage further on
[01:49] <Riddell> Kamion: excellent
[01:49] <Hobbsee> Lure: okay, they're currently beign filed in kdebase, and some in kdenetwork.  any i see, i'll reassign
[01:49] <Kamion> note (though I know Riddell knows this already) that the beta 2 install CD is the same as beta 1, that's not changed
[01:49] <toma> Riddell: i'm not sure what you mean
[01:49] <freeflying> Kamion: guys caomlain it more complicated than breezy do
[01:50] <Lure> Hobbsee: is should be kdeadmin knetworkconf!
[01:50] <ajmitch> Riddell: maybe something to quickly discuss with sfllaw
[01:50] <Hobbsee> right
[01:50] <Kamion> freeflying: it's a bit late here and I'm not sure I understand you, perhaps you should get those guys to file bugs about the problems they're having
[01:50] <Riddell> toma: we have bug days occationally https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuBugDay
[01:50] <Riddell> toma: and there's lists of things people can work on
[01:51] <Riddell> toma: I might need to find some more focused things for kubuntu people to work on
[01:51] <Hobbsee> Riddell: that'd be good
[01:52] <Riddell> toma: I also had a request from the gnome packagers to make KDE packages use the icon cache thingy that gnome uses
[01:53] <toma> Riddell: yes, just easy, maybe even boring things to do, look at http://www.englishbreakfastnetwork.org/sanitizer/reports/kde-4.0/kdeedu/klatin/index.html it is easy to do and well described...
[01:53] <Riddell> as an example of a shortish todo
[01:53] <Hobbsee> Riddell: discuss next meeting.
[01:53] <toma> that does not sound like an easy todo ;-)
[01:54] <Riddell> toma: so I can try and update HelpingKubuntu at some point and include a list of quickish things people can easily do
[01:54] <Hobbsee> while i remember about it :P
[01:54] <apokryphos> KDE's "jj:" system for bugs is quite good, IMO
[01:55] <toma> Riddell: ok, well, i dont want to give you more work, just something for everyone to think about. Note it down what you can not do yourself or dont want to
[01:55] <Riddell> apokryphos: maybe we should discuss with malone people getting something like that sorted
[01:55] <Riddell> so next meeting?
[01:56] <Riddell> or shall we just organise one when we feel we need one
[01:56] <freeflying> Riddell: one week after beta2
[01:56] <Riddell> freeflying: beta 2 is out now :)
[01:56] <Hobbsee> need it an hour earlier, if i'm to make all of it.  2 hour slow meeting suck...
[01:56] <freeflying> Riddell: then one week later
[01:56] <toma> i think linuxtag will be exciting, seems like a good idea to do discuss that in the week after that.
[01:56] <Riddell> so thursday 4th?
[01:57] <toma> for those wo can not join
[01:57] <Hobbsee> 2100UTC?
[01:57] <Riddell> Hobbsee: sorted
[01:57] <Hobbsee> ooh, another agreement!
[01:57] <Riddell> although that's quite nasty on freeflying 
[01:58] <Hobbsee> true, the other possibility is 12 hours away...whatever the correct time for that is
[01:58] <Hobbsee> ie, au night
[01:58] <freeflying> Riddell: I will be used to  :)
[01:58] <raphink> next meeting during LT ?
[01:58] <Riddell> raphink: no, after
[01:58] <Riddell> oh wait, 4th is dring
[01:58] <Riddell> ok, 11th then
[01:58] <Hobbsee> dring?
[01:58] <Riddell> during
[01:58] <Hobbsee> ah
[01:58] <raphink> ok
[01:58] <raphink> well the 4th is not after
[01:59] <raphink> LT finishes on the 6th
[01:59] <Riddell> thursday 11th at 2100UTC it is
[01:59] <raphink> dring ring
[01:59] <Riddell> thanks everyone
[01:59] <raphink> ok :)
[01:59] <raphink> that's better
[01:59] <Hobbsee> Riddell: can i discuss some stuff with you later?
[02:00] <Riddell> Hobbsee: later today or later at that meeting?
[02:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: later today
[02:00] <Hobbsee> you're allowed to sleep :P
[02:00] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I'll probably go to bed in 15 mins so now or when I wake up
[02:00] <Hobbsee> when you wake up :)
[02:01] <Riddell> sure
[02:01] <Hobbsee> ping me when you do?
[02:01] <Riddell> yep
[02:02] <Hobbsee> great, have a good sleep :)
[02:02] <Riddell> thanks :)
[02:03] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:03] <ajmitch> raphink: already?
[02:04] <raphink> ajmitch: really I am
[02:04] <raphink> that was a Looooooooooooooooooooooong day for me
[02:04] <ajmitch> yeah
[02:04] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:04] <Hobbsee> hehe...silly ajmitch 
[02:04] <ajmitch> I know
[02:04] <raphink> and now I've been up for 18 hours and walked and talked all day
[02:05] <raphink> and I just want to go to bed :)
[02:05] <Hobbsee> ouch..
[02:05] <Hobbsee> raphink: go.  bed.  now! :D
[02:05] <raphink> so I'll wish you guys a nice day
[02:05] <raphink> haha
[02:05] <raphink> :p
[02:05] <ajmitch> bye raphink 
[02:05] <raphink> bye
[02:06] <ajmitch> remind me never to get on the bad side of Hobbsee 
[02:06] <Hobbsee> hehehe
[02:06] <hybrid_> Hobbsee intentionally tries to poke someone's eye out
[02:06] <Hobbsee> hybrid_: shh :P
[02:07] <hybrid_> heh
[02:08] <OdyX> Bye all. Good night.
[03:10] <lucasvo> @calendar zurich
[03:10] <lucasvo> @schedule zurich
[03:11] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 02 May 23:00: Community Council | 03 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 04 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 22:00: Technical Board | 10 May 14:00: Edubuntu
[07:45] <zul> @schedule Montreal
[07:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 02 May 17:00: Community Council | 03 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 03 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 08:00: Edubuntu