/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/05/05/#kubuntu-devel.txt

Riddell\sh: if you have any ideas why ubiquity doesn't like unicode strings that would be very welcome :)12:08
Riddelle.g bug 4189312:08
UbugtuMalone bug 41893 in ubiquity "missing unicode conversion in kde-ui's disk selector" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4189312:08
\shRiddell: what about an approach like this? 12:10
\shmessage=unicode(i18n("Do you want to set the card %1 (%2) as def12:10
\shault?").arg(listItem.text(0)).arg(listItem.text(1)))12:10
\shwhich works nicely with qstrings and python unicode strings12:10
Riddell\sh: yes, that's the sort of thing I've been doing, but qstring and python strings should work together in my opinion12:11
\shRiddell: they don't :)12:11
\shthe problem was, when I remember correctly, that qstring is not a "real" string representation like Cstrings and python is using something which is closer to a c-string...it should be possible to interchange QCString and Python strings, but with loosing qts unicode feature of qstring, cause QCString is more a bytestream12:13
=== Lure is braindead -> time to bed ;-)
\shthere was a discussion on pykde ML...I have to check the archives.12:14
Riddell\sh: do you think the new updates might fix these? http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/pipermail/pykde/2006-April/013059.html12:20
\shhmm...do you have a reproducable piece of code?12:22
\shI can try just now with the new packages (pykde is still missing but compiling now)12:22
Riddell\sh: the top one only happens on amd6412:24
\shyeah...no problem :) binaries are amd64 at my place :)12:24
Riddell\sh: try kde ubiquity then12:24
\shRiddell: I can start it from a normal dapper install? I can't reinstall the amd64 server here...no display here ... so only remote display 12:25
Riddell\sh: yeah should be fine on an install, the crash is after you click Next for the first time, it won't destroy anything that early on12:25
\shok..will test 12:26
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\shRiddell: http://lists.kde.org/?l=pykde&m=113023543205131&w=2 and the following answers in this thread are quite interesting :)12:40
\shbut thinking of only crashing on amd64 it could be as well another regression somewhere else then sip/pyqt/pykde12:41
robotgeekwhat version of qt did we have in breezy?12:44
\shii  libqt3-mt      3.3.6-1ubuntu3 Qt GUI Library (Threaded runtime version), V12:46
\shoh in breezy12:48
\sh3:3.3.4-8ubuntu5: amd64 i386 powerpc 12:48
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kmonhi12:57
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\shguys, that's one of the best explaination of "fck, the worlds not using ascii at all" http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html01:05
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robotgeekI'm going to punish you by making you peel onions for 6 months. 01:15
robotgeekor you can make someone code in perl (end troll)01:15
robotgeek\sh__: thanks, i will read that article. :)01:16
\sh__Just read some other articles from joel...and they are so "right" :)01:16
\sh__http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000339.html about "sitting in the office, try to code something...but nothing happens"...:) great article...and it matches real life experience :)01:17
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\shRiddell: read the discussion on 02:14
\sh#u-d regarding laptop fn- key support?02:15
\shoh doomed pressed ctrl-c on the wrong shell02:19
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Hobbseeooh goody, a bug for tonio...08:36
freeflyingHobbsee: hi08:37
Hobbseehey freeflying 08:37
freeflyingHobbsee: still here in weekend? heh08:38
Hobbseei just got home from work...08:38
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freeflyingRiddell: around?09:11
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Tonio_hey09:28
freeflyingTonio_: hi09:30
Tonio_freeflying: ;)09:30
freeflyingTonio_: how about the weekend :)09:31
Tonio_Lure: what to do finally ? do I make the uvfe with current knm package, or do you want to take time to correct the svn version's issue ?09:31
Tonio_freeflying: very nice hehe ;)09:31
Tonio_special WE in france since monday if free too ;)09:31
LureTonio_: I would send e-mail to Timo with patches that make upstream and ask him about this automake problem and how he actually builds (also ask him about po packages). 09:32
Tonio_Lure: I agree with you, but dapper will not be released in 4 month...09:32
LureTonio_: and see if 0.1 will be released with SuSE 10.1 release which I think is a matter of days (or mostly weeks)09:32
Tonio_we should do quick, that's the problem09:32
Tonio_2 weeks is too much, we will not be able to make it is in more than a week to me09:33
freeflyingLure: I still can not resume from s2disk on ppc09:33
LureTonio_: I can write him an e-mail if you want and if we do not get answer on Monday, we go with what we have (maybe we solve the svn build by them)09:33
Tonio_Lure: that is nice yes ;)09:33
Tonio_not that I don't want to make propper, but well, I would be sad missing the update since we did "to long and good" ;)09:34
HobbseeTonio_: i have good news and i have bad news...09:34
Tonio_Lure: do you want the patches ?09:34
Tonio_like separator, desktop file etc... ?09:34
Tonio_Hobbsee: come on, what happens !!!09:34
LureTonio_: can you sjust put source package on your repo?09:35
Tonio_Lure: done09:35
HobbseeTonio_: well, it works beautifully.  but there's a typo in the .desktop file09:35
LureHobbsee: fixed09:35
Lure;-)09:35
Hobbseeah ok :)09:35
Tonio_Hobbsee: already fixed yes :)09:35
Hobbsee:P09:35
Tonio_ketworkmanager ?09:35
Lurefreeflying: is this regression (does it work with klaptop and/or hibernate.sh)?09:36
Tonio_Lure: repo version isn't the latest09:36
Tonio_just wait 15 minutes and grab it, it'll be okay09:36
freeflyingLure: haven't tested klaptop09:37
Lurefreeflying: can you test sudo /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh (maybe first from text, then from KDE)?09:37
Tonio_Lure: I was confirmed that hybernate issues are fixed with knetworkmanager09:37
Tonio_autoreconnect works nicelly, and that has to be added to the uvfe09:38
LureTonio_: great09:38
freeflyingLure: no hibernate.sh :)09:38
Tonio_Lure: to earn time, I will prepare the uvfe, text and files, so that if we decide to go with it, I'll post in 5 minutes and ping siretart and slomo, as knetworkmanager is a major feature for kubuntu09:41
Tonio_it has to be a priority09:41
Hobbseei cant honestly say how it couldnt be pushed to main, even if it is a little buggy - it's better than anything else we have09:43
Tonio_Hobbsee: little buggy ?09:43
Tonio_Hobbsee: main inclusion is planned this week, same time than wlassistant09:44
LureHobbsee: I think that pitti's concern was why so many wifi managers in main (kwifimanager, wlassistant and knm)09:44
Hobbseewell, even if it's not absolutely perfect, doesnt have the dialup and vpn support, for instant09:44
Hobbseeremove the first one..simple :P09:44
Tonio_kwifimanager will be replaced by wlassistant09:44
Tonio_and knm will be available but not shipped by default09:44
Tonio_that's the plan09:44
Tonio_Hobbsee: to me dialup stuff isn't the concern of a networkmanager tool09:45
Hobbseetrue09:45
Tonio_that's not the purpose, so not an issue removing it ;)09:45
LureTonio_: did you put rebuilt binary package also to you repo (it did not update with typo fix yet)09:46
Tonio_conerning vpn..... well, we were about to have them modules in, just before they stopped working for some f*cking reason09:46
Tonio_Lure: assume yes09:47
Tonio_but you have to wait 15 minutes for the repo to auto-update09:47
Tonio_let me update manually ;)09:47
LureTonio_: I have just seen discussion on n-m ML about it - they change internals often and that cause all kind of issues09:47
Tonio_Lure: done09:47
Tonio_Lure: can be due to latest update then09:48
LureTonio_: it seems it is hard to assume which n-m-vpn version is compatible with which which n-m09:48
Tonio_Lure: okay, that may explain ;)09:48
Tonio_Lure: once n-m gets mature and stabilized in its code, that may not happen09:49
Tonio_then we can ship vpn modules, and hopefully qt ones09:49
Tonio_Lure: I was thinking, are you ubuntu-member actually ? or ubuntu-dev member ?09:51
Tonio_Lure: concerning patche,s we can have them in with Riddell or danimo, since they have upload rights09:51
Tonio_Lure: but I think it is better to inform timo in the first place ;) respect !09:52
LureTonio_: I am candidate for membership (last time there was not enough time), so I hope to get in on next meeting (Tue)09:59
LureTonio_: I would like to understand how Timo uses SVN (missing po, admin...)10:00
Tonio_Lure: come to me then, I don't want to miss the oportunity to support you !10:03
Tonio_how is that possible that our best patcher isn't already member ? 10:03
Tonio_that's a shame10:03
LureTonio_: will do - thanks10:03
Tonio_Lure: pleasure :)10:03
LureTonio_: no hurry - good thing about Ubuntu is that you can get your patches even if you are not a member/developer ;-)10:05
Tonio_Lure: yes10:06
Tonio_Lure: that's the reason I stopped debian10:06
Tonio_Lure: if you are not readdy to send 5 mails a day for 3 month to get a 2 lignes patch in, no need to even think about it10:07
Tonio_Lure: starting contributing too linux distro is generally a pain as long as you are not "aknoledged"10:07
LureTonio_: Ubuntu community really rock (and Kubuntu even more ;-)10:07
Tonio_that's the reason the ubuntu community grows that fast10:08
Tonio_it is vertainly the most "opened" I've seen10:08
Tonio_everyone can simply come on irc, present his work, and get it is in a few minutes10:08
Tonio_Lure: kubuntu community is by far better than the ubuntu one, and that may never change, for a very simple reason ;)10:09
Tonio_you and I are in............ ^_^10:09
Tonio_but honnestly, malone or rosetta are helping a lot10:09
Tonio_can you imagin for someone that doesn know the debian organization, what a mess it is to simply asking for contributing ? :)10:10
Tonio_but I'm happy with one thing : the relationship between ubuntu and debian and other distros10:12
Tonio_I remember that when ubuntu was released, it has been criticized a lot.10:12
Tonio_that's over now :)10:13
LureTonio_: sent e-mail to Timo (cc: MBiebl)10:28
Lurecheck if I captured everything...10:28
Tonio_Lure: nice ;) 10:30
Tonio_Lure: did you include the french translation patch ?10:31
Lureyes10:31
Tonio_that was a real error, saying the oposite than what it should ;)10:31
Lureseparator, french, desktop and reportbug10:31
Tonio_bice10:31
Tonio_s/b/n10:31
LureTonio_: you sure you uploaded new binary knm? Still no update for me (and old .desktop)10:36
Tonio_Lure: hu ?10:38
Tonio_I uploaded this morning10:38
Tonio_let me check10:38
marseillaiRiddell: with there is a kuickshow problem : you have remove it but when we associate it with image mime type this association is kept! it should be replace by another association as gwenview or anything else (even if in my mind it doesn't replace kuickshow)10:39
Lurebtw: does anybody else get OOo Draw in Graphics (I always though OOo is only in Office)10:39
LureTonio_: ^^^ is this job for k-d-s?10:39
marseillaiLure: it does the same with krita .... 10:40
uniqlure: i have oo draw in graphics.10:40
Lureuniq: so at least I did not do that ;-) But I have never noticed this before...10:41
Tonio_Lure: yes, I have OOo too10:41
Tonio_Lure: it appears I have some cache issue or something10:41
uniqme neither.. i seldom use menus though. alt+f2 :)10:41
Tonio_the deb isn't the latest one10:41
Tonio_Lure: I'm correcting this10:42
Lureuniq: I do mostly Atl+Space ;-)10:42
=== Lure bbl
Tonio_Lure: you'll get it in in 5 minutes, but I suggest you purge your apt cache :)10:45
Tonio_Lure: did you ?10:47
Tonio_and restart kde since the kmenu sync sometime fails10:47
danimomoin Lure, Tonio_10:51
Tonio_hey danimo ;)10:51
danimoLure: why does timo miss .po and admin?10:51
danimoLure: we have scripts for that :)10:52
=== Tonio_ works on gwenview shortcuts with marseillai... default ones sux
Tonio_danimo: but even with admin and po, build fails, with a (really) strange error10:52
danimoTonio_: what error?10:53
Tonio_danimo: don't have the buildlog here10:54
Tonio_Lure: do you still have it ?10:54
Tonio_danimo: something about undeclared m4 maccro10:54
danimoTonio_: does it warn or error out?10:54
Tonio_danimo: error out, build fails10:55
Tonio_impossile to apply make -f admin/Makefile.common because of this10:56
Tonio_danimo: and that even with the latest admin folder version10:56
danimoodd10:56
Tonio_so I assume suse has customized admin folder or something that isn't on the svn for the moment10:56
Tonio_danimo: let me get the svn source and show you the error10:56
danimook10:57
marseillaidoes someone could report this so little mistake i don't know who to report : in this page https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-April/000072.html for europe link there is a mistake beetween name kubuntu and edubuntu in third link10:58
Tonio_danimo: http://pastebin.com/68994311:00
Tonio_danimo: if you have any idea ;)11:00
Tonio_marseillai: true, but I think all readers would have correct this themselves11:01
marseillaioki11:02
=== Lure back
LureTonio_: knm did not update (still)11:03
Tonio_Lure: ?11:03
Luredanimo: which scripts for collecting admin and po dirs...11:03
Tonio_Lure: well let me dcc the deb file to you ;)11:03
Tonio_I'll look at that later11:03
Tonio_Lure: ok for dcc ?11:03
LureTonio_: it is strange, as it always worked before...11:03
LureTonio_: ok11:04
Tonio_you can accept ;)11:04
Tonio_Lure: I had a server crash yesterday, maybe there is something broken11:04
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danimoLure, Tonio_: do you use svn2dist btw?11:09
Luredanimo: not me (new to kde svn really)11:09
Luredanimo: where do I get it?11:10
Tonio_danimo: nore do I11:11
danimohttp://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/3.5/kdesdk/scripts/svn2dist?rev=511836&view=auto11:11
danimothat's the "standard" way to rip kde apps off their module11:11
danimoexcept for amarok I think, they have their own little ruby script11:12
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Luredanimo: thanks will try11:14
Tonio_danimo: yes, sounds nice ;)11:14
Tonio_I only used "svn co"11:14
Tonio_Lure: I think the script is in kubuntu by default ;)11:15
Tonio_tonio@kubuntu:~$ whereis svn2dist11:15
Tonio_svn2dist: /usr/bin/svn2dist /usr/bin/X11/svn2dist11:15
Luretrue 11:16
=== Lure blushes ;-)
kmonhi11:16
Tonio_hey kmon11:16
Tonio_I have to clean my appartment11:16
Tonio_my sister and her girlfriend are coming toonight....11:17
Tonio_and it is a total mess11:17
kmondoes anyone know when kde 3.5.3 will come out?11:20
Tonio_kmon: assume too late for dapper ;)11:20
kmonTonio_: yes. I also assume that11:21
Tonio_I don't think Riddellwill take the risk to implement it so lately, since we had a big, big bunch of issues with breezy when doing that11:21
kmonare you backporting things from there?11:21
Tonio_kmon: the kdeprint stuff is already in, and works nicelly11:21
Tonio_that was, for many, the major issue11:21
kmonaham11:22
Tonio_what ?11:22
kmonI see11:22
danimokdeprint may work, but ghostview and/or the filters are incredibly broken11:22
Tonio_but if 3.5.3 is out before dapper and changelog refers to big big issues corrected, I assume there will be other backports11:22
Tonio_danimo: ah ? I didn't test this11:23
kmonTonio_: The changelog is already online: http://www.kde.org/announcements/changelogs/changelog3_5_2to3_5_3.php11:23
danimoTonio_: I opened a malone bugreport11:23
danimono reply yet11:23
danimoTonio_: it won't be out before dapper11:23
Tonio_kmon: I know, but that's not the final ;)11:23
Tonio_danimo: which bug plz ?11:23
kmonI would like to see what is this: New: KDE startup reordered in order to improve startup time11:24
kmon:)11:24
danimoTonio_: feature freeze is on tuesday, and then the translators get another 3 weeks or so11:24
Tonio_danimo: okay ;)11:24
Luredanimo: so it will be just before dapper ;-)11:25
Tonio_Lure: so too late....11:25
danimoLure: I doubt you will get an exception at this point :)11:25
Tonio_Lure: remember the consequences of adding 3.4.3 in breezy ?11:25
kmonCan I ask a support question here? It's weekend :P11:25
LureTonio_: I know, I was just teasing kmon... ;-)11:25
Lurekmon: sure11:25
kmonwhere can I disable IPv6 in dapper?11:26
Tonio_we in a few seconds switched from a stable kde to a kind of broken stuff, 2 days before release.... ;)11:26
danimohttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/4180011:26
UbugtuMalone bug 41800 in cupsys "Cups fails to print any file with Brother HL-1430" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  11:26
Tonio_danimo: that's a cups stuff, not a kdeprint ;)11:26
Tonio_danimo: there is still a discussion for cupsys11:27
danimoTonio_: that's what I said :)11:27
Lurekmon in /etc/modprobe.d/aliases comment out alias net-pf-10 ipv611:27
Tonio_I think 1.1 packages could be available if there are too many issues still before release11:27
danimoabout rolling back to 1.1?11:27
Lurekmon: I think it is documented somewhere in wiki11:27
Tonio_that was on the way 2 weeks ago11:27
Tonio_danimo: that has been discuss, but I don't know the latest statements on this11:27
Tonio_danimo: Riddell has the information11:28
LureTonio_: I think that time has passed - pitti seems satisfied with recent rc3...11:28
kmonLure: thanks I'll have a look at it11:28
Tonio_Lure: then forget what I said ;)11:28
Luredanimo: can you give us quick tutorial on svn2dist? ;-)11:28
Tonio_yes, could be interesting :)11:29
=== Lure looks dumb when staring at help output ;-)
Luredanimo: we want to pull this: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/kdereview/knetworkmanager/11:29
Tonio_danimo: it'll be easier to get approval for freeze exception if we get the latest svn version in fact11:30
Tonio_since my actual tarball is a mix of svn and suse src-rpm package11:30
Tonio_works, but not can sound dirty method for ubuntu gurus ;)11:31
danimoLure: yes, worked fine for me, just without i18n11:32
danimoLure: but that should work as wll11:32
danimoso what I did was:11:32
danimocd src11:32
danimols kdene*11:32
danimoerr11:32
danimols kdere*11:32
danimokdereview11:32
danimols kdereview/11:33
danimoadmin  configure.in.in  INDEX  INSTALL  knetworkmanager  Makefile.am.in  Makefile.cvs  README11:33
danimo(you can have all the other apps checked out as well, just make sure the directly is svn clean)11:33
danimothen, in src/, do: svn2dist kdereview/ knetworkmanager11:34
danimoand that's about it11:34
danimothe more verbose options are nicely explained in --help11:34
danimowhen you're done, you'll get both a tar.bz2 and a .tar.gz11:34
danimoLure: just try it11:35
Tonio_danimo: interesting :)11:35
danimoand it also has run make -f Makefile.{cvs,svn} for you11:35
danimoso you just need to run "configure" from there11:35
Tonio_danimo: trying11:36
danimoyes, it's a nice script11:36
danimooriginally developed for kdeextragear afaik11:36
marseillaiLure: can i ask you a little question about kpowersave or you are too busy ?11:37
Luremarseillai: of course11:37
marseillaii really like it but i can't hibernate with it! is there a way to use the klaptopdaemon way to hibernate with kpowersave ?11:38
Luremarseillai: so this is regression from klaptop?11:38
danimoTonio_: doesn't build, though, but you said you removed the serviceiface dependency, right?11:39
marseillaito me no because it's a great apps! and if i can use the klaptop way to hibernate i switch!11:39
Luredanimo: you need patch from Tonio's debian package11:39
hungermarseillai: Is that a problem with kpowersave or the kernel/11:40
danimowell, the important point is that you get a usable tar.gz package to proceed from11:40
Luremarseillai: but hibernate worked under klaptop?11:40
marseillaiyes11:40
hungermarseillai: I am asking because I can no longer suspend due to a problem that will be fixed in the next kernel release.11:40
marseillaihunger: kpower! because klaptop can hibernate fine!11:40
Luremarseillai: best would be to sumbit bug with details about notebook and then I can look into what might be wrong11:40
Tonio_danimo: exactly ;)11:40
Tonio_as long as we have a tarball, we are fine to make it work :)11:41
marseillaiLure: oki will do!11:41
hungermarseillai: So then it is something different from my problem:-(11:41
Luremarseillai: I have posted once in kubuntu-devel how powersave scripts can call acpi-support hibernate.sh - you may want to search for that in archives11:41
Tonio_danimo: got the tar.gz file, testing with this ;)11:42
marseillaiLure: this way : uses acpi-support infrastructure if configured EVENT_GLOBAL_SUSPEND2DISK_OTHER="suspend2" in /etc/powersave/events points to /usr/local/lib/powersave/scripts/suspend2 (fixed in v12 of powersave, works with suspend2 and with acpi-support infrastructure) ??11:42
Tonio_danimo: the only problem is that it places knetorkmanager in a subdirectory11:43
danimomarseillai: since when does ubuntu have suspend2?11:43
Luremarseillai: I did not triy that, but sebas mentioned that he is using this...11:43
Tonio_that well result a crappy debdiff11:43
danimoTonio_: why is that a problem?11:43
Tonio_danimo: that's an issue for UVFe11:43
marseillaioki! not using susp2 so not the answer to my problem! :)11:43
Tonio_cause that will deeply change the source package structure11:43
marseillaiwill look11:43
danimoTonio_: ok, let me try something11:43
Tonio_danimo: that's not an issue except when you are in a freeze state, and that every update is deeply checked11:44
Luremarseillai: check this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2006-February/000823.html11:44
Tonio_Lure: don't you agree ?11:44
LureTonio_: it will make it harder, but we may just provide a proper diff and persuade them that this is it?11:45
hungerFor when is the release planned again?11:45
Tonio_Lure: I think it'll be harder than the current package11:45
LureTonio_: true, but we need to bite into this sooner than later, as it will be harder to support later...11:46
Tonio_concerning the current we can always say that it is "synced with latest suse tarball"11:46
Tonio_means that it can be considered stable, when the latest svn may not11:46
Tonio_that's a good point11:46
danimoTonio_: nope, no idea how to cut that11:46
danimoTonio_: would need some more investigation11:47
Tonio_danimo: btw, thanks for the info, that'll help in the future !!!11:47
Tonio_danimo: it is not adapted to our current specific status11:47
danimoTonio_: I'm really suprised that this was not common knowledge11:47
Tonio_if we were not in uvf process, that wouldn't be a problem11:47
danimoTonio_: I'm sure you could fix the script to fulfill your needs11:48
Tonio_danimo: hehe ;) that is certainly for kde devs, but as I'm not a developper....11:48
danimoTonio_: this is a script created for release dudes and packagers in first place :)11:48
Tonio_danimo: maybe yes, but that can be long, and we have very, very short time to get that uvf exception....11:48
=== kmon [n=javier@217.Red-80-25-51.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
danimoTonio_: what's uvf?11:48
Tonio_a few days, not more, so has we have a fully working package, I think we shouldn't waste time on this11:48
Tonio_danimo: upstream version freeze11:49
danimoTonio_: and how did you make it buil dbefore?11:49
Tonio_danimo: actually, every version update on a ubuntu package requires an exception request, that is deeply checked11:49
Luredanimo: problem is that original dapper knm package was build on tar taken from some src.rpm 11:49
Tonio_that is in the aim for stability11:49
danimoic11:49
Luredanimo: and now we need to request UVFe for version from SVN and we want to have small debdiff11:49
Tonio_danimo: so the less structure changes we have, the easier it is to get the update in11:49
Tonio_and the current package, except that it isn't the latest svn one, is really nice11:50
Tonio_diff.gz file is only 7k, means very clean sources11:50
Luredanimo: svn2dist is new to me as I am only 2 months messing with KDE code (just patches for Kubuntu) and never used SVN (just Kubuntu source packages)11:50
Tonio_danimo: and concerning myself, although that's not an excuse, consider I'm a linux user for only 1 year ;)11:51
Tonio_I am an EX windows guru ;)11:51
Tonio_so I still have some "common knowledge" thigns to learn :)11:51
danimoheh11:51
Tonio_I am a newbie in fact :)11:51
danimoI wasn't out to blame you11:51
Tonio_danimo: I didn't took that as a blame ;)11:52
LureTonio_: I really do not know who allowed you and me to mess with Ubuntu packages ;-)11:52
danimoif it's not common knowledge, we did something wrong11:52
Tonio_Lure: that's the strengh of ubuntu, letting even begginers contributing11:52
Tonio_that helps ubuntu, and helps newbies to learn fast11:52
=== danimo tries something crude now
Tonio_I wouldn't have gotten that knowledge in only one year if riddell didn't invite me to contribute directly11:53
LureTonio_: that like when I hire engineers - if they have a will to do it is enough - they will learn anyhow ;-)11:53
Tonio_Lure: exactly11:53
Tonio_Lure: the will to do something is 95% of the job11:53
Tonio_and that is what makes the ubuntu comminity so different from debian's one11:54
Tonio_for finally, that works ;)11:54
Tonio_I think mandriva's community is about the same "opening" than the ubuntu one11:55
Tonio_except you have to pay to get access ;)11:55
Tonio_danimo: if I can give my 2 cents concerning the KDE structure, I think there are lots of things in it that should need more documentation11:57
Tonio_svn usage isn't easy to find out11:57
Tonio_BTS is (sorry for this) really messy11:57
Tonio_that doesn't help new contributors to help11:58
danimothere is s tutorial on svn on developer.kde.org11:58
Tonio_developper.kde.org is intended for developpers11:58
danimoand yes, bugzilla needs a lot more love11:58
danimono11:58
Tonio_someone that just did a little patch will not de facto think of going there in my view11:58
danimonot only11:58
Tonio_danimo: but that's what a newbie will think about11:58
danimowhy do non-developing contributors take the word so personally? :)11:58
danimowould you feel better if we symlinked it contributors.kde.org?11:59
Tonio_danimo: I think resources are there, but not easy to find, that's my feeling11:59
Tonio_danimo: and really the bts is an issue11:59
danimoyes, it is11:59
Tonio_search for a bug and you'll find everything except the one you're interested in.........11:59
Tonio_why not simply removing or caching the kde 2 ones ?12:00
danimoTonio_: that's true for every bugzilla, though12:00
danimoTonio_: KDE 2 bugs?12:00
Tonio_danimo: I know ;)12:00
Tonio_considering malone ? ^^ ;)12:00
Tonio_danimo: it is hard to find a bug for a specific version of kde12:00
danimoKDE 2 bugs should all be closed12:01
Tonio_danimo: so why do we find them when making a simple search ?12:01
Tonio_closed bugs should be hidden for example12:01
danimoTonio_: I doubt we will changed to $funky_bts_of_the_day, since our problem is a contribution one really12:01
Tonio_danimo: yes kde misses the amount of contribution gnome has12:01
danimoour bts-maintainance-team is a one man show, really12:02
danimoTonio_: in what respect?12:02
Tonio_danimo: I didn't knew that, that explains, indeed12:02
danimoTonio_: you should really come to linuxtag so we can discuss this in details :)12:02
Tonio_I will on saturday ;)12:02
Tonio_I'll be pleased to discuss that with you and a good beer ;)12:03
=== Lure will not be there ;-(
danimoTonio_: ah, cool, we'll meet then12:03
Tonio_Lure: :'(12:03
Tonio_yup12:03
danimoLure: sorry for my ignorance, but what is .si ?12:03
Tonio_danimo: that's an issue12:03
LureTonio_: it is 8-9 hour train (one way!) or strange hours flights...12:03
Luredanimo: Slovenia12:04
danimoah12:04
Tonio_danimo: users generally prefer kde, but about all developpers are under gnome12:04
danimoTonio_: I don't share that view, but it might be a tendency12:04
Tonio_danimo: not "all" that's an image yes ;)12:04
Tonio_debian's developpers are generally gnome users, same for redhat etc....12:05
danimoTonio_: anyway, if you have concrete ideas on improvement, we're glad to hear about them12:05
Tonio_but final users seem to generally prefer kde12:05
Tonio_danimo: I have, raphink has too12:05
danimoTonio_: some structures in the KDE community still haven't been changed since the foundation in 199612:05
danimoTonio_: although we changed a _lot_ in our processes12:05
Tonio_danimo: the advantage is that since most of us a new contributors, we have an objective view of the situation :)12:05
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Tonio_for example debian developers are fine with their tools12:06
danimoTonio_: we just have to keep a huge project running inbetween all those modifications :)12:06
kmonI hope you guys keep us up to date with linuxtag & kubuntu :)12:06
Tonio_but honnestly, the debian structure is horribly complex for a new contributor12:06
danimoTonio_: I was about to say... :)12:06
danimokmon: sure12:06
Tonio_that's a point where mark is absolutly right12:06
=== danimo will be there on tuesday, friday and saturday
Tonio_I do share his opinion on this12:07
=== danimo will be giving a Qt 4 tutorial on friday
Tonio_danimo: hehe ;)12:07
Tonio_danimo: can you imagin the amount of knowledge required to simply "translate" an app ?12:08
danimoTonio_: I was under the impression that everyone who does packages would be on the kde packagers list for instance12:08
kmondo you guys have already think about what to do for next release?12:08
Tonio_translating should only require "speaking 2 languages"12:08
danimoTonio_: isn't that the case?12:08
Tonio_danimo: I don't think so12:09
Tonio_danimo: actually, it requires access to sources, svn eventually12:09
Tonio_my girlfriend will never make usage of this, but she can use rosetta12:09
danimoTonio_: KDE has great translation support, and even a dedicated webpage with loads of tutorials, etc12:09
Tonio_danimo: true, but most people are not ready to read tutorials12:10
danimoTonio_: well, for translations you need to12:10
danimoTonio_: just for the conventions12:10
Tonio_danimo: not with rosetta for example12:10
danimootherwise the results will be inconsistant and crappy12:10
danimothat's not a technical issue12:10
Tonio_I can translate on my windows work computer during lunch12:10
danimoI was a translator myself in the first days12:10
danimoTonio_: I agree that rosetta _is_ a great improvement12:11
Tonio_yes, sometimes it is important if you want the translated phrase to be correct in the context12:11
Tonio_danimo: although rosetta isn't perfect at all12:11
danimoTonio_: but you can't replace everything purely through technology12:11
danimothat's the other point12:11
danimoplus KDE uses a modified version of gettext12:12
danimoI'm not sure if rosetta can handle that already12:12
Tonio_but I like the idea of the user seeying the app isn't fully translated, making a right click and see "translate this application"12:12
Tonio_that is in ubuntu already, not kubuntu12:12
Tonio_the user is invited to contribute in an easy way, and then, if he likes, he will spend time to go deeply in the underground world of contribution ;)12:13
danimoTonio_: this is the wikipedia approach on translations12:13
Tonio_the but new user, in front of the debian machine for example, turns out and leaves12:13
danimoTonio_: that's fine in general, but you ultimately want a review before this stuff goes anywhere near shipping12:13
Tonio_danimo: exactly, wikipedia does the same, and the gnome version of ubuntu does it for the desktop12:13
danimoTonio_: since a bad translation can spoil everything12:13
Tonio_danimo: rosetta is reviewed12:14
danimoso every released translation needs to be an "excellent article" in wikipedia speak12:14
Tonio_there are teams which are validating and choosing the good phrase when several are given12:14
danimoTonio_: I'm not sure what it was, but our i18n gods had some issues with rosetta. we should really talk this over at linuxtag12:15
Tonio_but well, translation is only one example12:15
Tonio_danimo: yes, I agree12:15
Tonio_there are still issues on that point12:15
danimoTonio_: sure, we are currently looking for a way to easily let users contribute "whatsthis" strings12:15
Tonio_danimo: look at the debian's svn structure...........12:15
danimoTonio_: hmm?12:16
Tonio_danimo: for example knetworkmanager is under........ let me check12:16
Tonio_http://svn.debian.org/ -> pkg-utopia12:17
Tonio_quite easy to find no ? ^^12:17
danimough12:17
danimoat least KDE has a semi-sane svn structure12:17
Tonio_why not simply "pkg-network"12:17
Tonio_kde svn is browsable12:17
Tonio_not debian's12:17
danimobecause the project was called "project utopia" when it was launched12:17
danimothat's why12:18
Tonio_danimo: why not simply putting a search engine on their website, to search for a package or branch ?12:18
Tonio_danimo: yes, but a newbie will not find that12:18
danimo*shrug*12:18
danimoTonio_: you asked, I answered :)12:18
Tonio_danimo: hehe :)12:19
Tonio_I was just trying to expain that in my view, the problem is that many people would like to start contribution, but get afraid by the structure behind distros12:19
Tonio_a good frontend is generally missing12:19
danimowell, I think the problem sits a bit deeper12:20
uniqlook at it as a test, those who pass are good,those who don't are not. :] 12:20
Tonio_danimo: maybe, but once the user has started his first contribution, he can go deeply step by step12:20
danimothe projects awareness that they could make people with few time their contributors and still get something useful out of it12:20
danimoright12:21
Tonio_uniq: I wouldn't have pass tje test for debian12:21
Tonio_since I was a real newbie12:21
Tonio_but now I did significant work for kubuntu, and that due to that "easy access" I was talking about12:21
danimodebian guys are real elitists in that you have to all kind of stuff to get accepted12:21
uniqthen debian has decided that they don't want you on board.12:22
danimofor KDE, the barrier is rather low12:22
danimoyou do something, you ask for an account, you're in12:22
danimobut most people don't even get there12:22
Tonio_uniq: yes, but the general benefit of "linux world", that's not good in my view12:22
Tonio_although I have the deeper respect for what debian did for the community12:22
Tonio_danimo: now the question is "why do they do it for launchpad ?"12:23
Tonio_maybe people feel closer to their distribution than the desktop manager ?12:23
Tonio_that's possible12:23
danimowell, I don't know much about launchpad12:26
danimois it really that widely used?12:26
danimodo you know how "common" those users are?12:26
Tonio_danimo: well, imagin that we got about 1000 french translators in  few weeks12:27
danimonice12:27
Tonio_and generally lots of bug reports, that don't come from "linux gurus"12:27
danimoare malone and rosetta free software?12:27
Tonio_danimo: neither free or proprietary, just unpublished12:27
Tonio_but they can host external projects12:28
uniq"There are currently 363443 people and 370 teams registered in Launchpad." 12:28
Tonio_btw, the code isn't public12:28
danimoTonio_: yes, that's a bit annoying12:28
Tonio_danimo: true ;)12:28
Tonio_363443 registered people is quite nice since ubuntu is very young12:28
danimoI usually don't whine about that, but when it comes to moving central infrastructure to something that is not explicitly free software, I'm having issues with it12:29
Tonio_even if most should be active ;)12:29
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Tonio_danimo: yes, that is perfectly understandable12:29
danimoTonio_: referring to the kernel bitkeeper issue for instance12:29
marseillaidanimo: as many people use this arg to tell cannonical is evil ....12:29
danimoTonio_:  we should have that as a discussion point for saturday12:29
Tonio_danimo: some distros are using proprietary softwares in it, not ubuntu12:30
danimomarseillai: it's not a matter of evil or not, it's a matter of saving our asses12:30
Tonio_but yes, as there are commercial aspect behind, the backend is designed to be "ubuntu only"12:30
Tonio_that's a choice, even that can cause issues for other projects that could be interested12:30
danimoTonio_: right, but if KDE as a project starts to rely on it, that's a completely different issue12:30
Tonio_marseillai: it is not evil, and it can sound logic that to make the difference, you have to have something "unic" that others don't have12:31
Tonio_redhat has proprietary stuff12:31
Tonio_ubuntu has launchpad12:31
danimoTonio_: sure, but we don't rely on redhat in any way12:32
danimo(technically)12:32
Tonio_that doesn't make ubuntu proprietary, but it is an issue for other projects that would like to use it, of course ;)12:32
danimoTonio_: I'm not saying that KDE would set up its own launchpad12:32
Tonio_danimo: well, I'm talking about canonical there :) not ubuntu12:32
marseillaiTonio_: i understand that! i agree with this! but other people can say that it's not the open source way to do things!12:32
danimobut if launchpad was free software, we could if ubuntu broke away12:32
Tonio_canonical has its plans with mandriva, novell and redhat too12:32
Tonio_danimo: true12:33
danimos/ubuntu/canonical, sure12:33
Tonio_danimo: I think mark told about releasing sources some day, and in any case if ubuntu broke12:33
=== Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Tonio_but it is still dangerous to migrate under those conditions12:34
danimoTonio_: yes12:34
danimoI'll be interesting to talk about that12:34
danimoRiddell: can we put this up as a topic for the meeting?12:34
Tonio_danimo: yes, that could be a very interesting talk ;)12:35
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=== danimo doesn't remember the url to the wiki page
Riddellhttps://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuLinuxTagMeetings12:36
Riddellput up what?12:36
danimoRiddell: KDE making use of launchpad12:37
danimoRiddell: read the backlog12:37
=== Hobbsee waves to all
danimohi Hobbsee12:38
Hobbseehey danimo 12:38
Riddelldanimo: added12:39
danimoRiddell: and Tonio_ is missing from the participants list12:39
Tonio_danimo: oups ;)12:39
Riddellalthough the only thing KDE would use it for is Rosetta I think12:39
danimoyes, probably12:39
Tonio_Riddell: hi and thanks for adding me, I should have done it myself12:41
freeflyingRiddell: how about add an entry into menu for report bug to launchpad12:42
Tonio_freeflying: launchpad integration is planned for edgy12:43
Tonio_translation and ug report should appear right clicking on the window, like ubuntu already does12:44
Tonio_Riddell: correct me if I'm wrong ;)12:44
Riddellfreeflying: there's a spec for that, kubuntu-launchpad-integration I think12:45
freeflyingTonio_:  heh, but we can add one into menu,make it easy for enduser report 12:45
Tonio_freeflying: well it is quite easy to find in the docs12:45
Tonio_which are available through the kmenu12:46
freeflyingRiddell: we can use kfmclient to open lp for users12:46
Riddellthe tricky bit is finding the correct launchpad url12:47
Tonio_Riddell: because it is based on source package and not binary name, am I right ?12:48
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Riddellyes12:49
Riddellbinary package name would do too as well I think but that's also unreliable12:50
Tonio_Riddell: marseillai told me about a good point concerning gwenview12:51
Tonio_Riddell: most image viewer accept standard shortcuts and gwenview one's are really different12:52
Tonio_Riddell: I would like to add them as secondary shortcuts12:52
Tonio_Riddell: could be nice from prople coming from windows and using acdsee of xnview I think12:52
Riddellwhat standard shortcuts?12:53
Tonio_for example page up/down to go next or previous image12:53
Tonio_f or alt + enter for fullscreen12:53
Riddellnever heard of alt+enter for that12:53
Riddellbut sure, alternative accelarator keys can't hurt12:54
Tonio_Riddell: all windows apps do, so we can add them as "secondary"12:54
Tonio_that will not change anything except making things easier for non linux users12:54
Tonio_Riddell: alt+enter is the standard for fullscreen in about all windows apps12:55
danimoseconded12:55
Tonio_okay so I'll see with himfor what to change, and had them in default settings12:55
Tonio_I think most linux developpers should have a look from time to time to windows, to guess things that can make people migrating easier ;)12:57
Tonio_a simple shurtcut can be a "fatal issue" for my mother for example ;)12:57
Tonio_but lots of improvements have already been done :)12:59
Tonio_simple example -> I switched12:59
marseillaiRiddell: due to the remove of kuickshow is it possible to replace the mime type association of kuickshow by gwenview when this association have been done by hand? because it causes many bugs.01:00
Tonio_marseillai: that's a profile issue01:00
Tonio_marseillai: you wouldn't have those on a clean install01:00
marseillaiyes i know! but it happens with an upgrade!01:00
Tonio_marseillai: konqueror -> options -> file associations01:00
marseillaiso it's not really cool01:00
Tonio_marseillai: nope01:01
Tonio_it happens if you already customized associations01:01
Tonio_they are not written to the profile untill you customized them01:01
marseillaiTonio_: yes done! but to people who don't know it would be great to replace this association01:01
Tonio_marseillai: well, it is hard to deal with profile issue........01:02
Tonio_when I'm migrating people from breezy to dapper, I generally restart with a clean profile01:02
Tonio_cause there are not one, but many, many potential issues01:02
marseillaioki01:03
Tonio_and since the list the list of changes from breezy to dapper looks like a leviathan.......01:03
Tonio_that should be easier for future versions01:03
Tonio_since the core of kubuntu will not change that much01:03
Hobbseeon a random sidenote, did anyone notice kde 3.5.2 slowing down their systems, compared to kde 3.5.1?01:04
Hobbseeor am i dreaming?01:04
Tonio_Hobbsee: didn't noticed that...01:04
danimohere neither01:04
danimoHobbsee: try to hit yourself. if it hurts, you're probably awake :)01:05
Hobbseeheh01:05
=== Hobbsee thwaps danimo
=== Hobbsee sees him recoil in pain
Hobbseeyep, i think i'm awake then.01:05
danimobah01:05
danimoI#m fine01:05
danimoyay, hailstorm!01:07
=== |ZuZuu| [n=ZuZubunt@AVelizy-154-1-40-144.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Hobbseedanimo: depends how hard i hit you...and where, come to think of it.  if i hit you in the head, for example, it might hurt a lot01:07
Hobbseeand with what...01:07
danimo*gg*01:07
=== \sh [n=shermann@unaffiliated/sh/x-000000002] has joined #kubuntu-devel
\shmoins01:28
Hobbseehey \sh 01:29
\shmoins Hobbsee01:29
danimohi \sh01:30
Tonio_\sh: hey ;)01:31
\shnow I know why I always hated to compile pykde :) it takes too long01:31
Hobbseehehe!01:34
Hobbsee\sh: how long's it taking?01:34
\shI'm now waiting 45mins for sipkdeuipart0.cpp :)01:35
Tonio_\sh: same issue here when I need to test a little patch on kdebase........01:35
Tonio_that's a nightmare01:35
\shand my load goes up to 6 :)01:35
Tonio_\sh: 45 minutes for only ONE cpp file ? damned !!!01:35
=== LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
danimoTonio_: well, it has about 1000 included files01:36
\shTonio_: well, yeah, it concatenating several files into one and compiles then..very memory exhausting and load increasing :)01:36
Tonio_danimo: hehe, okay01:36
danimoTonio_: and his system must swap out pretty heavily01:37
=== danimo pets his 1,5 GB of RAM
\shdanimo: bah :)01:37
=== Tonio_ is 2 GB
\shMem:    512336k total,   506032k used,     6304k free,     2528k buffers01:38
\shSwap:  2088408k total,   850204k used,  1238204k free,    13628k cached01:38
Tonio_but only 256 on laptop, so I can understand \sh ;)01:38
\shTonio_: it's my amd64 :)01:38
\shonly 512mb 01:38
Tonio_wow........01:38
danimothis laptop has 512 MB, too01:38
\shthe laptop would be the same with 512mb :)01:38
Tonio_I don't have amd64, I generally prefer little procesor with big ram01:39
\shbut laptop with 512mb, 60gb hd, and 1.2GHz cpu is not a good compile machine :)01:39
danimobut i'd trigger such jobs at my workstation and then copy the deb file over01:39
\shi bought it, to test applications with amd64 bugs :)01:39
Tonio_\sh: that is what can be colled a "professionnal" attitude ;)01:40
Tonio_s/colled/called01:40
\shand I can build i386 applications on it as well :)01:40
danimo\sh: amazing :)01:40
\shand I didn't need to bug mithrandir anymore to install some packages on the remote amd64 :)01:41
Hobbseeouch, that's crazy...01:41
\shHobbsee: congrats to universe upload rights :)01:42
hungerCould somebody please drop some more zeroconf-config files into kdebase? I.e. those appended to #33034.01:42
hungerI am using them for a while now and they work great for me.01:43
Hobbsee\sh: what?  ajmitch uploaded them for me... :)01:43
Hobbseei'm not a MOTU01:43
Tonio_Riddell: nice try, but my name is Mercatante, not Mercantine ^_^01:43
\shHobbsee: oh :) 01:44
danimoMOTU?01:44
Hobbseedanimo: master of the universe01:44
Hobbseealthough, would i be a master or the mistress of the universe?01:44
=== Hobbsee contemplates being queen hobbsee of the universe :P
danimoHobbsee: is that some special joke? or referring to ubuntu universe01:45
danimo?01:45
Hobbseedanimo: referrign to the ubuntu universe, yes01:45
\shdanimo: it's refering to ubuntu universe :) and old joke it is as well...01:45
\shoh...yoda speech on01:45
danimounderstanding I am01:46
danimo:)01:46
Hobbsee:)01:47
RiddellTonio_: well not a bad shot01:47
ajmitch_\sh: you think she should be MOTU now? :)01:47
Tonio_Riddell: hehe, true :)01:48
\shajmitch_: to be honest, I don't know her work :) so you are able to tell me :)01:48
Hobbseehaha01:48
=== Hobbsee wouldnt go for it yet...
Tonio_is that normal that I can't change my preferences on the ubuntu wiki ?01:48
Tonio_"passwords missmatch", but there is no way to enter the password twice......01:49
\shpassword is handled by launchpad 01:49
Tonio_\sh: yes, but the password I used is the good one, that why I don't understand....01:49
\shhmm....who is wiki master? 01:50
Tonio_\sh: does it work for you ?01:50
Riddellheno is01:50
\shTonio_: well I don't change my settings at all :)01:50
RiddellTonio_: use your launchpad e-mail to log in01:51
Tonio_Riddell: done ;)01:51
Tonio_Riddell: tonio@ubuntu.com, as my launchpad prefered email but that doesn't change anything....01:51
\shok....1:10h for sipkdeuipart0.cpp :(01:52
ajmitch_\sh: you still have all your UBZ photos around?01:52
Tonio_well that's not a major issue for me as long as I'm the only one concerned01:52
\shajmitch_: yes...have to reactivate my gallery01:52
ajmitch_\sh: great01:53
\shajmitch_: you know, it was good not to be on the last group photo of ubz :) when I see this picture on the "Behindubuntu" website, I'm always telling myself: "Phew, you are a lucky guy, nobody will now that you were there" ;)01:55
ajmitch_hah01:55
=== toma_ is now known as toma
ajmitch_you're still in enough other photos from there :)01:55
\shmostly in a very funny state of being drunk :)01:56
ajmitch_hm, I should see if I'm even visible in that photo01:56
Hobbseehehe!01:56
ajmitch_heh, yes01:56
\shI'm thinking about a one day to paris :)01:56
\shvisit 01:56
Tonio_I have a bunch of those stickers for laptop01:56
Tonio_http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/blog/images/stickersusb.jpg01:56
Hobbsee\sh: what, in june?01:56
ajmitch_sadly I'll be busy then01:56
\shHobbsee: jepp01:56
=== Hobbsee wont be able to go to that, for multiple reasons
Riddell\sh: did you confirm kde ubiquity crashes on amd64?01:57
Tonio_ubuntu and kubuntu ones, in case that would please you to have one, I can bring them at linuxtag01:57
\shRiddell: I'm still compiling pykde :(01:57
Riddell\sh: new pykde?01:57
\shTonio_: please do :)01:57
\shRiddell: yes01:57
Riddell\sh: rocking01:57
Tonio_\sh: sure ;) Riddellinterested too ?01:57
RiddellTonio_: hmm?01:57
ajmitch_Tonio_: can you send some to NZ? :)01:57
Tonio_kubuntu laptop sticker :)01:57
RiddellTonio_: that photo only has ubuntu ones01:58
Hobbseeooh, that'd be fun!01:58
Hobbsee:(01:58
Tonio_ajmitch_: sure, although if you need more, you can buy some over the net :)01:58
\shthis laptop needs more sticker :) 2 ubuntu ones, one goopensource, and one sticker of the new company :)01:58
Tonio_Riddell: let me show you the kubuntu one01:58
Hobbseeoh, if anyone's going to be delivering kubuntu dapper cds to NZ, give one to ajmitch_ for me please :)01:58
RiddellTonio_: bring them to linuxtag, I'll buy a couple off you01:59
Tonio_ajmitch_: I don't have so many, but if you need one or two, email me your postal address, I will send you this with pleasure01:59
RiddellHobbsee: canllaith had some01:59
Tonio_Riddell: nope, I will offer them to you, no question to sell them01:59
Hobbseeah ok01:59
Riddellshe may still have them, don't know01:59
ajmitch_Tonio_: I can probably order some online then01:59
Tonio_Riddell: I wonder if the company that sells this has canonical agreement for the logo ;)01:59
Riddellajmitch_: didn't you go to linux.conf.au?01:59
Tonio_hehe01:59
ajmitch_Riddell: I did, but the cds were gone by the time I wanted some02:00
RiddellTonio_: probably, anyone can licence the logo02:00
\shTonio_: amu is offering some mugs and other things you can show him the sticker, he has some connections to produce them very cheap...02:00
Tonio_Riddell: http://linux-schlepptops.de/images/produkte/fanartikel/pbu-sticker_400x400.jpg with kubuntu02:01
Tonio_\sh: would be nice to ship cds with one sticker :)02:01
Tonio_but would cost a bit of money....02:01
\shhehe...the best thing is, I'm drinking coffee out of this mug: http://www.linuxshop.de/shop/catalog/images/tasse_kubuntu21.jpg02:02
Tonio_\sh: WOW !!! 02:02
=== Tonio_ is jalous !!!
\shTonio_: amu is selling cds for a small ammount of money...and some money is going back to debian and ubuntu 02:02
Tonio_\sh: will that be possible to buy one or 2 mugs at linuxtag ?02:03
\shTonio_: I don't think he is selling there...but offering as fan article or as teaser for the people02:03
Tonio_\sh: great ;)02:03
\shI have the other cup as well http://www.linuxshop.de/shop/catalog/images/ubuntu_tasse_04.jpg02:03
Tonio_hehe02:04
Tonio_\sh: if you know people interested in stickers, but more that I have (20) : http://linux-schlepptops.de/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=2902:05
Tonio_5  is for 10 stickers, which is maybe reasonable02:05
\shTonio_: to expensive :)02:05
=== ajmitch_ hates to think what shipping costs to NZ will be like
Tonio_\sh: could be less yes02:05
RiddellZone 2 World, no worse than Bukina Faso02:05
Tonio_ajmitch_: indeed I didn't though about that....02:05
ajmitch_Riddell: that's not saying a lot02:06
Riddelland probably better than Western Sahara02:06
\shTonio_: I wrote amu a mail with the picture of the sticker, let's see what he can do :)02:06
Tonio_Riddell: or Tuvalu island :)02:06
Tonio_\sh: nice ;)02:07
Riddellisn't Tuvalu an arcipegilo?02:07
Tonio_Riddell: not sure02:08
Tonio_Trinidad and Tobago should be expansive too ;)02:08
\shload average: 6.60, 5.11, 4.2102:09
\shwow02:09
\shbah....still no progress on pykde3...still at sipkdeuipart0.cpp :(02:19
=== mornfall appears
Riddellis that one of those files where it cat's all the files together and tries to compile it?02:20
Riddellkdebindings does thingas like that02:20
\shRiddell: yes :) standard way of compiling things like this these days...I could change it, but then the divergence with debian is there...02:21
\shit's only a matter of ram..and the ram is not much in this machine so "wait"02:22
ajmitch_\sh: it'd be quicker for me to compile it & ship you the binaries on CD :)02:23
\shajmitch_: it doesn't help me and riddell that much :) when the CD is here at my place, dapper is finally released ;)02:23
ajmitch_haha02:24
ajmitch_\sh: is this pykde3 that's in the archive?02:24
Hobbseehey, does the kubuntu live cd have k3b on it, by any chance?02:24
Hobbseethe hoary one, in particular02:24
ajmitch_\sh: you could have access to pbuilder on here if you wanted02:25
\shajmitch_: no..it's pykde3 new upstream, packaged by torsten marek for debian02:25
ajmitch_ok02:25
\shajmitch_: will hit debian unstable next week or so...but for ubuntu/kubuntu I have to remove all python2.3 occurances :)02:25
ajmitch_if you want to build here, just ask02:25
superstonedwe could sell stickers on the KDE booth02:26
\shajmitch_: thx :) but it should be finished in "no time" lol02:26
superstonedand mugs02:26
ajmitch_\sh: heh ok :)02:26
superstonedgo nice with the FREE kubuntu cd's. we'll ask for some support :D02:26
=== ajmitch_ would love to try building on the sun box :)
\shsuperstoned: are you allowed to sell at the official kde booth?02:27
superstonedwe always do02:27
superstonedin the netherlands.02:27
superstonedafter all, we run'em :D02:27
superstonedso we do what we like :D02:27
superstonedhehe02:27
\shsuperstoned: I don't think it's allowed at linuxtag02:27
superstonedhmmmm02:27
\shand we only have 1.5k kubuntu cds02:27
superstonedwhy not? we always sell some pins, and sometimes tshirts and stuff02:27
superstonednot much02:27
superstonedbut its there for the fans02:28
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Riddellexpos usually allow selling stuff so long as it's for the organisation and not for profit02:28
\shI was rethinking what mako and og maciel did during the boston linux day...02:28
\shthey were selling the ubuntu cds for 1 USD02:28
=== marseillai_ is now known as marseillai
\shI wonder if we should do the same with kubuntu cds during linuxtag....what do you think Riddell, and transfering the money to the foundation?02:29
=== Hobbsee laughs at dad, the poor windows user. i'll have to offer him my kubuntu live cd, for hoary...
mornfallHobbsee: um :p02:32
Riddell\sh: I think that wouldn't work since ubuntu would be giving away their CDs02:33
Riddellwe'd have everyone saying "why do kubuntu CDs cost money but ubuntu ones don't"02:33
Hobbseemornfall: his machine wont start in normal mode, and wont launch any apps in safe mode :P02:33
Hobbseetherefore, his data is kinda screwed at the moment..02:33
\shRiddell: well, we could argue "because there are no official kubuntu cds on the street...so this edition will be 300 to 1000 eur worth in couple years time " ;)02:34
\shRiddell: seriously...I think the cds will be gone latest after the 2nd day of LT.02:35
ajmitch_\sh: they may not last that long02:35
\shRiddell: and I don't want to give away ubuntu cds at the kubuntu booth02:35
\shor I'll take my transportable dvd writer with me..and burn kubuntu cds like a mad cow02:36
\shwow...pc-bsd is released, desktop ready freebsd fork...with kde 3.5.2 .. nice02:37
mornfall\sh: i'm more interested in debian gnu/kfreebsd ;-)02:38
\shmornfall: and I'm interessted, if it's possible to install nexenta solaris via FAI :)02:43
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Tonio_\sh: stable released ?02:50
Tonio_\sh: I tested 3 month ago, but that didn't to install correctly ;)02:50
\shTonio_: what? nexenta or pc-bsd? :)02:50
Tonio_pc-bsd02:50
Tonio_I'm following this project from time to time, seems very nice02:50
=== Tonio_ is waiting for haiku os more than anything ;)
\shhttp://www.pcbsd.org/index.php?id=32 pcbsd officially released02:51
Tonio_\sh: nice !! I'll give a shot :)02:51
mornfallhow does it relate to dragonfly btw?02:51
Tonio_my lovelly haikuos isn't ready actually, but I'm still hoping it'll rock ;)02:52
\shdragonfly is just another fork of freebsd02:52
Tonio_\sh: already heard about ?02:52
\shTonio_: about what? :)#02:53
Tonio_haiku os, a complete redeveloppment of beos, gpl licence02:54
Tonio_seems to start working quite correctly02:54
Tonio_I stated informatics with beos, so that's special to me :)02:54
Tonio_\sh: quick screenshot : http://www.haiku-os.pl/pliki/galeria/Zeta/zenebona.jpg02:56
\shcool stuff..does it run on actual hardware? the last time I tested zeta it didn't work on an nc6000 hp laptop02:57
Tonio_\sh: hardware support is on the way, but I think haiku is a bit better than zeta on that point02:57
Tonio_I had it booting on my desktop, which in not that bad ;)02:58
Tonio_\sh: isn't nc6000 centrino based ? not sure that will be supported ;)02:58
\shpentium m02:59
\shso it should run with pentium3 support03:00
Tonio_yes03:00
Tonio_I'm following skyos too, really impressive since it is an OS developped from scratch by one guy only03:01
Tonio_but that's proprietary.... so may never find its public03:01
Tonio_and nobody knows if there is some stolen code in it...03:02
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danimohi pradeepto03:10
\shTonio_: this windows from scratch?03:11
Tonio_\sh: nope, that's reactOS03:11
pradeeptodanimo: hey there03:12
Tonio_skyos a an unix compatible OS03:12
Tonio_but everything is done from scratch, that's not based on anything already existing03:12
Tonio_the "windows from scratch" project is reactos, and I also tested recently, that amazing too ;) gpl, binary compatible, quake3 or msoffice installing and running out of the box03:13
Tonio_\sh: I don't understand nobody seems interested in this product ;)03:13
danimoyay, the worst annoyance with my gfx chipsets just got fixed03:14
Tonio_\sh: http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/fr/screenshots.html03:14
Tonio_\sh: you should have a look, that's terrific !!!03:14
Riddell"DCOPClient::attachInternal. Attach failed Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed"03:15
Riddellgrr, dcop is strange03:16
danimoRiddell: hey, look at it from the positive side: DBUS is worse :)03:16
Tonio_\sh: the only issue is that too better binary compatibility means compatible with spywares and viruses :)03:17
Riddelldanimo: that would be the dbus that KDE is changing to then03:18
danimoyes03:18
danimoRiddell: well it's worse as in that it is more complex03:18
danimobut should work better in scenarios like yours03:19
danimoRiddell: what exactly are you working on btw?03:19
Riddelldanimo: live CD installer03:19
Riddelltrying to get this reboot working03:19
Riddellsubprocess.call(["dcop", "--user", "ubuntu", "--session", ".DCOPserver_ubuntu__0", "ksmserver", "ksmserver", "logout", "1", "1", "1"] )03:19
danimoRiddell: works fine here on the shell03:20
danimo(adopted to my needs of course)03:20
danimoRiddell: I'd rather pass the complete path to .DCOPserver_ubuntu__003:21
Riddelldanimo: pass the complete path?03:21
danimoyes03:21
Riddellwhat does that mean?03:22
danimo /home/ubuntu/.DCOPserver_buntu__003:22
Riddellon the shell it works for me too, it's running it from an app run with kdesu that's the problem03:22
Riddellcomplete path doesn't work either03:23
danimokdesu "dcop --user danimo --session /home/danimo/.DCOPserver_lenina_0"03:23
danimoERROR: The specified session doesn't exist!03:23
danimoodd03:24
Riddellmissing an underscore before the 0?03:24
danimooh03:24
danimoyes03:24
danimobut even then..03:24
Riddellalthough I still get "ERROR: The specified session doesn't exist!" for complete path03:25
Riddellsubprocess.call(["dcop", "--user", "ubuntu", "--list-sessions"] )  works03:25
danimoit doesn't like the path for some reason03:25
danimoah, it wants session names03:26
danimothe names just happe to be equal to the patch03:26
danimopath03:26
danimoRiddell: but kdesu "dcop --user danimo --session .DCOPserver_lenina__0" works just fine for me03:27
danimoRiddell: how did you make kdesu to ask for the user instead of the root pwd btw?03:27
danimokdesu "dcop --user danimo --session .DCOPserver_lenina__0 ksmserver ksmserver" prints all I want03:29
Riddellhttp://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/test.py03:31
Riddellturns out the problem only occurs if I have created a KApplication03:32
\shhmmm...exec_loop?03:34
\shor do_events (when this is the correct syntax )03:34
Riddell?03:35
Riddellthat won't help with calling dcop03:35
danimo?03:38
danimoerr03:38
danimoRiddell: well, you need an eventloop in first place03:38
danimoRiddell: afaik03:38
\shRiddell: what should it do?03:39
\shRiddell: it works here with created kapplication 03:39
Riddelldanimo: I'm just using shell command subprocesses at the moment03:40
Riddell\sh: trying to call dcop to ksmserver from kdesu ubiquity03:41
\shbut with kdesu started it doesn't work....because somehow it's missing an authorization (iceauth)03:41
RiddellI wonder what the difference between import pydcop and import dcop is03:41
=== danimo doesn't know
\shpydcop is old :)03:41
\shbut was more stable then the pykde implementation at some time...when I remember correctly03:42
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\shRiddell: 1. still compiling *gnarf* 2. what are we doing about the problem with the special notebook keyevents send out by acpi_fakekey? klaptopdaemon doesn't work, nor kmilo...or we have to improve kmilo somehow03:59
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Lure\sh: do you have any idea? allee proposed keyboard layout, but I am concerned with users already using keyboard layout for external keyboard (see bug 27542)04:06
UbugtuMalone bug 27542 in meta-kde kde "Volume keys do not work in KDE on nw8240" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2754204:06
\shwell...the problem is that mjg59 is sending out linux keys I think...and kmilo is catching some X keys for special laptops...I'm not sure how we can solve this...04:08
\shit should be catched by klaptopdaemon somehow, but this is focusing only on the battery and energy stuff...actually it doesn't work here with the acpi-support stuff04:09
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Lure\sh: what if we would assign Xkeysym with modmap in Xsessions.d?04:19
\shthat's the wrong way IMHP04:20
\shIMHO04:20
Lure\sh: that way we could at least fix kmilo stuff (volume)04:20
\shI actually don't know how it works for gnome, but it looks like there is an app which catches the right keycodes04:20
Lure\sh: i think it is g-p-m04:21
\shthe problem with volume up/down is one of the things...but all fn keys on a keyboard are working (checking /var/log/acpid.log) but not in kde...the events are send, but not catched 04:22
\shand that's a regression for dapper...because with the old system of acpi support it was working...when I change the /etc/acpi/ events to fire up the real scripts it's working...04:23
Lure\sh: my HP nw8240 does not have acpi keys, so they do not show there, but they have proper keycodes (Ubuntu style)04:24
Lure\sh: luckly volume keys can be controlled with Compaq Armada keyboard layout04:24
\shyeah04:24
Lurethis is suboptimal and does not work out-of-the-box04:25
\shbut what mjg did now, he fires up acpi_fakekey with /usr/share/acpi-support/key-constants stuff04:25
\shthese key constants are linux keycodes04:26
kmonhas anyone tried this patch? http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=114502945908434&w=204:27
\shah...gpm is listening to hal events04:28
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\shi'm doomed...more then 3 hours waiting :(04:49
danimo_?04:52
\shpykde04:52
danimo_ah04:52
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Tm_Tuff05:19
Tonio_anyone already tested the ptp access threw the media:/ ki ?05:40
Tonio_fails here05:40
Tm_Tjust so you know, next month I'm very inactive05:40
Tm_Teven 18h sleeps didn't cheer me up05:41
Tm_Toh well, back to sleep ->05:42
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\shwow...sipkdeuipart1.cpp is compiling lol....it will take more time :(06:44
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mornfallRiddell: ping06:58
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mornfallwhere is this Riddell guy again...07:52
tomalost in adept07:53
mornfalltoma :P07:53
mornfallwhat do you mean07:53
tomanothing, just trying to be funny now and then.07:56
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yuriyTonio_: ptp access? like a camera?08:14
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LureRiddell: ping09:38
uniqriddell: ref. bug #42192,  is it allowed to extract data from kgeography to make kgeography-data in order to fix this bug or does that voilate the freeze? Or is it possible to just make kgeographics-data dissapear silently into /dev/null somehow?  09:39
UbugtuMalone bug 42192 in kgeography "kgeography is uninstallable" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4219209:39
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Riddellmornfall: hi10:19
Riddellluka74: hi10:19
RiddellLure_: hi10:19
mornfallre10:19
=== luka74 is now known as Lure
LureRiddell: hi - I am testing network settings this is why my nick changes... ;-)10:19
\shsipkfilepart0.cpp just started to compile...that's not normal...looks like my hdd is crashing or what..oh no...it goes now10:20
LureRiddell: question regarding bug 38578 - do you agree with proposed fix (see last comment)10:20
UbugtuMalone bug 38578 in kdeadmin knetworkconf "Enable interface does not acquire address from DHCP" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3857810:20
LureRiddell: we have two options: 1) do ifdown before ifup (just to be sure) or 2) do not consider interface w/o ip address as down (if it is actually up)10:21
RiddellLure: 2) sounds cleaner10:22
LureRiddell: I think so too - I just do not know why this code is in knetworkconf anyhow 10:23
LureRiddell: but I am not sure that I want to know why ;-)10:23
LureRiddell: I have patch ready, but will look one "apply confirmation too many" on Show All first (if I can fix that also)10:24
Riddellknetworkconf is not great, the perl scripts are just horendus10:24
RiddellLure: thanks so much for looking at that10:24
LureRiddell: we have own copy of .pl scripts, but goot thing is that it is not too far from Ubuntu system-tools-backends package (I have diff-ed both version as I have suspected bug there)10:25
LureRiddell: I had to as one of my engineers switched to Ubuntu becuase of network conf ;-) - and I want them use KDE ;-)10:26
\shRiddell: pykde3 just finished to compile...starting to test ubiquity after upgrade10:26
Riddell\sh: that was along comile :)10:26
Riddellcompile10:26
\shRiddell: yes :) for sure10:27
Riddellgood thing it didn't end in a linking error or something10:27
\shI wonder why10:27
\shthink my hdd is just dieing10:27
\shwhich is bad10:27
\shRiddell: ok..after the first "next" click it should crash somehow....let's see10:29
Riddellyes10:31
=== Riddell waits nervously
\shi doubt that it is a pykde issue anyhow....it should crash on x86, too, if it's something with pykde10:32
Riddelldid it crash?10:33
\shapt-get install ubiquity :)10:33
\shjust got a bunch of kde packages to upgrade ;)10:33
\shsudo ubiquity or just as plain user?10:34
Riddellsudo apt-get install ubiquity-frontend-kde10:34
Riddellkdesu ubiquity kde-ui10:34
\shcrash10:35
\shbut 10:35
\shnot from pykde10:35
\shbecause it tries to display something...10:35
Riddellno, the crash is in C10:36
Riddellc++10:36
LureSime, sebas: around?10:36
Riddellbut I can't believe that c++ qt has a problem with unicode strings, it's got to be something to do with pyqt10:36
\shno..but it can be, that python unicode string to c string has problems10:39
\shand it shows the page.including listbox just before it crashes10:39
\shfunction on_language_treeview_selection_changed?10:42
\shwhere is the ui build for the language selector?10:43
\shi wonder if on_language_treeview_selection_changed is called when the listbox is displayed..and 10:44
\shself.userinterface.language_treeview.selectedItem() is None :)10:44
\shor something else then None but nothing like a string...10:45
Riddellliveinstaller.py has the listbox10:45
\shgenerated from liveinstaller.ui10:45
mornfallRiddell: when's next beta planned?10:50
=== mornfall has fixed a bunch of bugs
\shtrying to debug a bit...and trying to understand what ubiquity is actually doing ;)10:51
\shargl...torsten forgot to install kdepyuic :*(10:58
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\shRiddell: where is the bzr archive of the ubiquity source? 11:08
\shRiddell: ok...for the better understanding...the second step (first next click) is stepLanguage right?11:27
Riddell\sh: see wiki page KubuntuUbiquity11:36
Riddellalthough apt-get source ubiquity is much faster than branching11:36
\shRiddell: sure...11:37
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\shRiddell: in def set_language_choice, the string choice coming from language_choice_map, are these unicode strings already?11:45
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