[12:08] \sh: if you have any ideas why ubiquity doesn't like unicode strings that would be very welcome :) [12:08] e.g bug 41893 [12:08] Malone bug 41893 in ubiquity "missing unicode conversion in kde-ui's disk selector" [Major,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/41893 [12:10] <\sh> Riddell: what about an approach like this? [12:10] <\sh> message=unicode(i18n("Do you want to set the card %1 (%2) as def [12:10] <\sh> ault?").arg(listItem.text(0)).arg(listItem.text(1))) [12:10] <\sh> which works nicely with qstrings and python unicode strings [12:11] \sh: yes, that's the sort of thing I've been doing, but qstring and python strings should work together in my opinion [12:11] <\sh> Riddell: they don't :) [12:13] <\sh> the problem was, when I remember correctly, that qstring is not a "real" string representation like Cstrings and python is using something which is closer to a c-string...it should be possible to interchange QCString and Python strings, but with loosing qts unicode feature of qstring, cause QCString is more a bytestream === Lure is braindead -> time to bed ;-) [12:14] <\sh> there was a discussion on pykde ML...I have to check the archives. [12:20] \sh: do you think the new updates might fix these? http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/pipermail/pykde/2006-April/013059.html [12:22] <\sh> hmm...do you have a reproducable piece of code? [12:22] <\sh> I can try just now with the new packages (pykde is still missing but compiling now) [12:24] \sh: the top one only happens on amd64 [12:24] <\sh> yeah...no problem :) binaries are amd64 at my place :) [12:24] \sh: try kde ubiquity then [12:25] <\sh> Riddell: I can start it from a normal dapper install? I can't reinstall the amd64 server here...no display here ... so only remote display [12:25] \sh: yeah should be fine on an install, the crash is after you click Next for the first time, it won't destroy anything that early on [12:26] <\sh> ok..will test === Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:40] <\sh> Riddell: http://lists.kde.org/?l=pykde&m=113023543205131&w=2 and the following answers in this thread are quite interesting :) [12:41] <\sh> but thinking of only crashing on amd64 it could be as well another regression somewhere else then sip/pyqt/pykde [12:44] what version of qt did we have in breezy? [12:46] <\sh> ii libqt3-mt 3.3.6-1ubuntu3 Qt GUI Library (Threaded runtime version), V [12:48] <\sh> oh in breezy [12:48] <\sh> 3:3.3.4-8ubuntu5: amd64 i386 powerpc === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === kmon [n=javier@217.Red-80-25-51.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:57] hi === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:05] <\sh> guys, that's one of the best explaination of "fck, the worlds not using ascii at all" http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html === \sh__ [n=shermann@xdsl-81-173-248-213.netcologne.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:15] I'm going to punish you by making you peel onions for 6 months. [01:15] or you can make someone code in perl (end troll) [01:16] \sh__: thanks, i will read that article. :) [01:16] <\sh__> Just read some other articles from joel...and they are so "right" :) [01:17] <\sh__> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000339.html about "sitting in the office, try to code something...but nothing happens"...:) great article...and it matches real life experience :) === \sh__ is now known as \sh === tinin [n=tininpun@216.Red-83-61-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === tinin [n=tininpun@216.Red-83-61-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #kubuntu-devel [] === toma is now known as toma_ [02:14] <\sh> Riddell: read the discussion on [02:15] <\sh> #u-d regarding laptop fn- key support? [02:19] <\sh> oh doomed pressed ctrl-c on the wrong shell === neoncode [n=neoncode@88-107-237-12.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.30] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Parkotron [n=parker@fctnnbsc16w-156034221176.nb.aliant.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan_ [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.30] has joined #kubuntu-devel === poningru [n=poningru@ip68-226-0-76.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === claydoh [n=clay@bb-66-63-100-239.gwi.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === NeoChaosX [n=nael@ppp-71-139-170-173.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Huahua [n=hua_@221.172.51.6] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel [08:36] ooh goody, a bug for tonio... [08:37] Hobbsee: hi [08:37] hey freeflying [08:38] Hobbsee: still here in weekend? heh [08:38] i just got home from work... === Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #kubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [09:11] Riddell: around? === Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [09:28] hey [09:30] Tonio_: hi [09:30] freeflying: ;) [09:31] Tonio_: how about the weekend :) [09:31] Lure: what to do finally ? do I make the uvfe with current knm package, or do you want to take time to correct the svn version's issue ? [09:31] freeflying: very nice hehe ;) [09:31] special WE in france since monday if free too ;) [09:32] Tonio_: I would send e-mail to Timo with patches that make upstream and ask him about this automake problem and how he actually builds (also ask him about po packages). [09:32] Lure: I agree with you, but dapper will not be released in 4 month... [09:32] Tonio_: and see if 0.1 will be released with SuSE 10.1 release which I think is a matter of days (or mostly weeks) [09:32] we should do quick, that's the problem [09:33] 2 weeks is too much, we will not be able to make it is in more than a week to me [09:33] Lure: I still can not resume from s2disk on ppc [09:33] Tonio_: I can write him an e-mail if you want and if we do not get answer on Monday, we go with what we have (maybe we solve the svn build by them) [09:33] Lure: that is nice yes ;) [09:34] not that I don't want to make propper, but well, I would be sad missing the update since we did "to long and good" ;) [09:34] Tonio_: i have good news and i have bad news... [09:34] Lure: do you want the patches ? [09:34] like separator, desktop file etc... ? [09:34] Hobbsee: come on, what happens !!! [09:35] Tonio_: can you sjust put source package on your repo? [09:35] Lure: done [09:35] Tonio_: well, it works beautifully. but there's a typo in the .desktop file [09:35] Hobbsee: fixed [09:35] ;-) [09:35] ah ok :) [09:35] Hobbsee: already fixed yes :) [09:35] :P [09:35] ketworkmanager ? [09:36] freeflying: is this regression (does it work with klaptop and/or hibernate.sh)? [09:36] Lure: repo version isn't the latest [09:36] just wait 15 minutes and grab it, it'll be okay [09:37] Lure: haven't tested klaptop [09:37] freeflying: can you test sudo /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh (maybe first from text, then from KDE)? [09:37] Lure: I was confirmed that hybernate issues are fixed with knetworkmanager [09:38] autoreconnect works nicelly, and that has to be added to the uvfe [09:38] Tonio_: great [09:38] Lure: no hibernate.sh :) [09:41] Lure: to earn time, I will prepare the uvfe, text and files, so that if we decide to go with it, I'll post in 5 minutes and ping siretart and slomo, as knetworkmanager is a major feature for kubuntu [09:41] it has to be a priority [09:43] i cant honestly say how it couldnt be pushed to main, even if it is a little buggy - it's better than anything else we have [09:43] Hobbsee: little buggy ? [09:44] Hobbsee: main inclusion is planned this week, same time than wlassistant [09:44] Hobbsee: I think that pitti's concern was why so many wifi managers in main (kwifimanager, wlassistant and knm) [09:44] well, even if it's not absolutely perfect, doesnt have the dialup and vpn support, for instant [09:44] remove the first one..simple :P [09:44] kwifimanager will be replaced by wlassistant [09:44] and knm will be available but not shipped by default [09:44] that's the plan [09:45] Hobbsee: to me dialup stuff isn't the concern of a networkmanager tool [09:45] true [09:45] that's not the purpose, so not an issue removing it ;) [09:46] Tonio_: did you put rebuilt binary package also to you repo (it did not update with typo fix yet) [09:46] conerning vpn..... well, we were about to have them modules in, just before they stopped working for some f*cking reason [09:47] Lure: assume yes [09:47] but you have to wait 15 minutes for the repo to auto-update [09:47] let me update manually ;) [09:47] Tonio_: I have just seen discussion on n-m ML about it - they change internals often and that cause all kind of issues [09:47] Lure: done [09:48] Lure: can be due to latest update then [09:48] Tonio_: it seems it is hard to assume which n-m-vpn version is compatible with which which n-m [09:48] Lure: okay, that may explain ;) [09:49] Lure: once n-m gets mature and stabilized in its code, that may not happen [09:49] then we can ship vpn modules, and hopefully qt ones [09:51] Lure: I was thinking, are you ubuntu-member actually ? or ubuntu-dev member ? [09:51] Lure: concerning patche,s we can have them in with Riddell or danimo, since they have upload rights [09:52] Lure: but I think it is better to inform timo in the first place ;) respect ! [09:59] Tonio_: I am candidate for membership (last time there was not enough time), so I hope to get in on next meeting (Tue) [10:00] Tonio_: I would like to understand how Timo uses SVN (missing po, admin...) [10:03] Lure: come to me then, I don't want to miss the oportunity to support you ! [10:03] how is that possible that our best patcher isn't already member ? [10:03] that's a shame [10:03] Tonio_: will do - thanks [10:03] Lure: pleasure :) [10:05] Tonio_: no hurry - good thing about Ubuntu is that you can get your patches even if you are not a member/developer ;-) [10:06] Lure: yes [10:06] Lure: that's the reason I stopped debian [10:07] Lure: if you are not readdy to send 5 mails a day for 3 month to get a 2 lignes patch in, no need to even think about it [10:07] Lure: starting contributing too linux distro is generally a pain as long as you are not "aknoledged" [10:07] Tonio_: Ubuntu community really rock (and Kubuntu even more ;-) [10:08] that's the reason the ubuntu community grows that fast [10:08] it is vertainly the most "opened" I've seen [10:08] everyone can simply come on irc, present his work, and get it is in a few minutes [10:09] Lure: kubuntu community is by far better than the ubuntu one, and that may never change, for a very simple reason ;) [10:09] you and I are in............ ^_^ [10:09] but honnestly, malone or rosetta are helping a lot [10:10] can you imagin for someone that doesn know the debian organization, what a mess it is to simply asking for contributing ? :) [10:12] but I'm happy with one thing : the relationship between ubuntu and debian and other distros [10:12] I remember that when ubuntu was released, it has been criticized a lot. [10:13] that's over now :) [10:28] Tonio_: sent e-mail to Timo (cc: MBiebl) [10:28] check if I captured everything... [10:30] Lure: nice ;) [10:31] Lure: did you include the french translation patch ? [10:31] yes [10:31] that was a real error, saying the oposite than what it should ;) [10:31] separator, french, desktop and reportbug [10:31] bice [10:31] s/b/n [10:36] Tonio_: you sure you uploaded new binary knm? Still no update for me (and old .desktop) [10:38] Lure: hu ? [10:38] I uploaded this morning [10:38] let me check [10:39] Riddell: with there is a kuickshow problem : you have remove it but when we associate it with image mime type this association is kept! it should be replace by another association as gwenview or anything else (even if in my mind it doesn't replace kuickshow) [10:39] btw: does anybody else get OOo Draw in Graphics (I always though OOo is only in Office) [10:39] Tonio_: ^^^ is this job for k-d-s? [10:40] Lure: it does the same with krita .... [10:40] lure: i have oo draw in graphics. [10:41] uniq: so at least I did not do that ;-) But I have never noticed this before... [10:41] Lure: yes, I have OOo too [10:41] Lure: it appears I have some cache issue or something [10:41] me neither.. i seldom use menus though. alt+f2 :) [10:41] the deb isn't the latest one [10:42] Lure: I'm correcting this [10:42] uniq: I do mostly Atl+Space ;-) === Lure bbl [10:45] Lure: you'll get it in in 5 minutes, but I suggest you purge your apt cache :) [10:47] Lure: did you ? [10:47] and restart kde since the kmenu sync sometime fails [10:51] moin Lure, Tonio_ [10:51] hey danimo ;) [10:51] Lure: why does timo miss .po and admin? [10:52] Lure: we have scripts for that :) === Tonio_ works on gwenview shortcuts with marseillai... default ones sux [10:52] danimo: but even with admin and po, build fails, with a (really) strange error [10:53] Tonio_: what error? [10:54] danimo: don't have the buildlog here [10:54] Lure: do you still have it ? [10:54] danimo: something about undeclared m4 maccro [10:54] Tonio_: does it warn or error out? [10:55] danimo: error out, build fails [10:56] impossile to apply make -f admin/Makefile.common because of this [10:56] danimo: and that even with the latest admin folder version [10:56] odd [10:56] so I assume suse has customized admin folder or something that isn't on the svn for the moment [10:56] danimo: let me get the svn source and show you the error [10:57] ok [10:58] does someone could report this so little mistake i don't know who to report : in this page https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-April/000072.html for europe link there is a mistake beetween name kubuntu and edubuntu in third link [11:00] danimo: http://pastebin.com/689943 [11:00] danimo: if you have any idea ;) [11:01] marseillai: true, but I think all readers would have correct this themselves [11:02] oki === Lure back [11:03] Tonio_: knm did not update (still) [11:03] Lure: ? [11:03] danimo: which scripts for collecting admin and po dirs... [11:03] Lure: well let me dcc the deb file to you ;) [11:03] I'll look at that later [11:03] Lure: ok for dcc ? [11:03] Tonio_: it is strange, as it always worked before... [11:04] Tonio_: ok [11:04] you can accept ;) [11:04] Lure: I had a server crash yesterday, maybe there is something broken === pradeepto [n=pradeept@dialpool-210-214-13-57.maa.sify.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [11:09] Lure, Tonio_: do you use svn2dist btw? [11:09] danimo: not me (new to kde svn really) [11:10] danimo: where do I get it? [11:11] danimo: nore do I [11:11] http://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/3.5/kdesdk/scripts/svn2dist?rev=511836&view=auto [11:11] that's the "standard" way to rip kde apps off their module [11:12] except for amarok I think, they have their own little ruby script === kmon [n=javier@217.Red-80-25-51.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [11:14] danimo: thanks will try [11:14] danimo: yes, sounds nice ;) [11:14] I only used "svn co" [11:15] Lure: I think the script is in kubuntu by default ;) [11:15] tonio@kubuntu:~$ whereis svn2dist [11:15] svn2dist: /usr/bin/svn2dist /usr/bin/X11/svn2dist [11:16] true === Lure blushes ;-) [11:16] hi [11:16] hey kmon [11:16] I have to clean my appartment [11:17] my sister and her girlfriend are coming toonight.... [11:17] and it is a total mess [11:20] does anyone know when kde 3.5.3 will come out? [11:20] kmon: assume too late for dapper ;) [11:21] Tonio_: yes. I also assume that [11:21] I don't think Riddellwill take the risk to implement it so lately, since we had a big, big bunch of issues with breezy when doing that [11:21] are you backporting things from there? [11:21] kmon: the kdeprint stuff is already in, and works nicelly [11:21] that was, for many, the major issue [11:22] aham [11:22] what ? [11:22] I see [11:22] kdeprint may work, but ghostview and/or the filters are incredibly broken [11:22] but if 3.5.3 is out before dapper and changelog refers to big big issues corrected, I assume there will be other backports [11:23] danimo: ah ? I didn't test this [11:23] Tonio_: The changelog is already online: http://www.kde.org/announcements/changelogs/changelog3_5_2to3_5_3.php [11:23] Tonio_: I opened a malone bugreport [11:23] no reply yet [11:23] Tonio_: it won't be out before dapper [11:23] kmon: I know, but that's not the final ;) [11:23] danimo: which bug plz ? [11:24] I would like to see what is this: New: KDE startup reordered in order to improve startup time [11:24] :) [11:24] Tonio_: feature freeze is on tuesday, and then the translators get another 3 weeks or so [11:24] danimo: okay ;) [11:25] danimo: so it will be just before dapper ;-) [11:25] Lure: so too late.... [11:25] Lure: I doubt you will get an exception at this point :) [11:25] Lure: remember the consequences of adding 3.4.3 in breezy ? [11:25] Can I ask a support question here? It's weekend :P [11:25] Tonio_: I know, I was just teasing kmon... ;-) [11:25] kmon: sure [11:26] where can I disable IPv6 in dapper? [11:26] we in a few seconds switched from a stable kde to a kind of broken stuff, 2 days before release.... ;) [11:26] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/41800 [11:26] Malone bug 41800 in cupsys "Cups fails to print any file with Brother HL-1430" [Normal,Unconfirmed] [11:26] danimo: that's a cups stuff, not a kdeprint ;) [11:27] danimo: there is still a discussion for cupsys [11:27] Tonio_: that's what I said :) [11:27] kmon in /etc/modprobe.d/aliases comment out alias net-pf-10 ipv6 [11:27] I think 1.1 packages could be available if there are too many issues still before release [11:27] about rolling back to 1.1? [11:27] kmon: I think it is documented somewhere in wiki [11:27] that was on the way 2 weeks ago [11:27] danimo: that has been discuss, but I don't know the latest statements on this [11:28] danimo: Riddell has the information [11:28] Tonio_: I think that time has passed - pitti seems satisfied with recent rc3... [11:28] Lure: thanks I'll have a look at it [11:28] Lure: then forget what I said ;) [11:28] danimo: can you give us quick tutorial on svn2dist? ;-) [11:29] yes, could be interesting :) === Lure looks dumb when staring at help output ;-) [11:29] danimo: we want to pull this: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/kdereview/knetworkmanager/ [11:30] danimo: it'll be easier to get approval for freeze exception if we get the latest svn version in fact [11:30] since my actual tarball is a mix of svn and suse src-rpm package [11:31] works, but not can sound dirty method for ubuntu gurus ;) [11:32] Lure: yes, worked fine for me, just without i18n [11:32] Lure: but that should work as wll [11:32] so what I did was: [11:32] cd src [11:32] ls kdene* [11:32] err [11:32] ls kdere* [11:32] kdereview [11:33] ls kdereview/ [11:33] admin configure.in.in INDEX INSTALL knetworkmanager Makefile.am.in Makefile.cvs README [11:33] (you can have all the other apps checked out as well, just make sure the directly is svn clean) [11:34] then, in src/, do: svn2dist kdereview/ knetworkmanager [11:34] and that's about it [11:34] the more verbose options are nicely explained in --help [11:34] when you're done, you'll get both a tar.bz2 and a .tar.gz [11:35] Lure: just try it [11:35] danimo: interesting :) [11:35] and it also has run make -f Makefile.{cvs,svn} for you [11:35] so you just need to run "configure" from there [11:36] danimo: trying [11:36] yes, it's a nice script [11:36] originally developed for kdeextragear afaik [11:37] Lure: can i ask you a little question about kpowersave or you are too busy ? [11:37] marseillai: of course [11:38] i really like it but i can't hibernate with it! is there a way to use the klaptopdaemon way to hibernate with kpowersave ? [11:38] marseillai: so this is regression from klaptop? [11:39] Tonio_: doesn't build, though, but you said you removed the serviceiface dependency, right? [11:39] to me no because it's a great apps! and if i can use the klaptop way to hibernate i switch! [11:39] danimo: you need patch from Tonio's debian package [11:40] marseillai: Is that a problem with kpowersave or the kernel/ [11:40] well, the important point is that you get a usable tar.gz package to proceed from [11:40] marseillai: but hibernate worked under klaptop? [11:40] yes [11:40] marseillai: I am asking because I can no longer suspend due to a problem that will be fixed in the next kernel release. [11:40] hunger: kpower! because klaptop can hibernate fine! [11:40] marseillai: best would be to sumbit bug with details about notebook and then I can look into what might be wrong [11:40] danimo: exactly ;) [11:41] as long as we have a tarball, we are fine to make it work :) [11:41] Lure: oki will do! [11:41] marseillai: So then it is something different from my problem:-( [11:41] marseillai: I have posted once in kubuntu-devel how powersave scripts can call acpi-support hibernate.sh - you may want to search for that in archives [11:42] danimo: got the tar.gz file, testing with this ;) [11:42] Lure: this way : uses acpi-support infrastructure if configured EVENT_GLOBAL_SUSPEND2DISK_OTHER="suspend2" in /etc/powersave/events points to /usr/local/lib/powersave/scripts/suspend2 (fixed in v12 of powersave, works with suspend2 and with acpi-support infrastructure) ?? [11:43] danimo: the only problem is that it places knetorkmanager in a subdirectory [11:43] marseillai: since when does ubuntu have suspend2? [11:43] marseillai: I did not triy that, but sebas mentioned that he is using this... [11:43] that well result a crappy debdiff [11:43] Tonio_: why is that a problem? [11:43] danimo: that's an issue for UVFe [11:43] oki! not using susp2 so not the answer to my problem! :) [11:43] cause that will deeply change the source package structure [11:43] will look [11:43] Tonio_: ok, let me try something [11:44] danimo: that's not an issue except when you are in a freeze state, and that every update is deeply checked [11:44] marseillai: check this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2006-February/000823.html [11:44] Lure: don't you agree ? [11:45] Tonio_: it will make it harder, but we may just provide a proper diff and persuade them that this is it? [11:45] For when is the release planned again? [11:45] Lure: I think it'll be harder than the current package [11:46] Tonio_: true, but we need to bite into this sooner than later, as it will be harder to support later... [11:46] concerning the current we can always say that it is "synced with latest suse tarball" [11:46] means that it can be considered stable, when the latest svn may not [11:46] that's a good point [11:46] Tonio_: nope, no idea how to cut that [11:47] Tonio_: would need some more investigation [11:47] danimo: btw, thanks for the info, that'll help in the future !!! [11:47] danimo: it is not adapted to our current specific status [11:47] Tonio_: I'm really suprised that this was not common knowledge [11:47] if we were not in uvf process, that wouldn't be a problem [11:48] Tonio_: I'm sure you could fix the script to fulfill your needs [11:48] danimo: hehe ;) that is certainly for kde devs, but as I'm not a developper.... [11:48] Tonio_: this is a script created for release dudes and packagers in first place :) [11:48] danimo: maybe yes, but that can be long, and we have very, very short time to get that uvf exception.... === kmon [n=javier@217.Red-80-25-51.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [11:48] Tonio_: what's uvf? [11:48] a few days, not more, so has we have a fully working package, I think we shouldn't waste time on this [11:49] danimo: upstream version freeze [11:49] Tonio_: and how did you make it buil dbefore? [11:49] danimo: actually, every version update on a ubuntu package requires an exception request, that is deeply checked [11:49] danimo: problem is that original dapper knm package was build on tar taken from some src.rpm [11:49] that is in the aim for stability [11:49] ic [11:49] danimo: and now we need to request UVFe for version from SVN and we want to have small debdiff [11:49] danimo: so the less structure changes we have, the easier it is to get the update in [11:50] and the current package, except that it isn't the latest svn one, is really nice [11:50] diff.gz file is only 7k, means very clean sources [11:50] danimo: svn2dist is new to me as I am only 2 months messing with KDE code (just patches for Kubuntu) and never used SVN (just Kubuntu source packages) [11:51] danimo: and concerning myself, although that's not an excuse, consider I'm a linux user for only 1 year ;) [11:51] I am an EX windows guru ;) [11:51] so I still have some "common knowledge" thigns to learn :) [11:51] heh [11:51] I am a newbie in fact :) [11:51] I wasn't out to blame you [11:52] danimo: I didn't took that as a blame ;) [11:52] Tonio_: I really do not know who allowed you and me to mess with Ubuntu packages ;-) [11:52] if it's not common knowledge, we did something wrong [11:52] Lure: that's the strengh of ubuntu, letting even begginers contributing [11:52] that helps ubuntu, and helps newbies to learn fast === danimo tries something crude now [11:53] I wouldn't have gotten that knowledge in only one year if riddell didn't invite me to contribute directly [11:53] Tonio_: that like when I hire engineers - if they have a will to do it is enough - they will learn anyhow ;-) [11:53] Lure: exactly [11:53] Lure: the will to do something is 95% of the job [11:54] and that is what makes the ubuntu comminity so different from debian's one [11:54] for finally, that works ;) [11:55] I think mandriva's community is about the same "opening" than the ubuntu one [11:55] except you have to pay to get access ;) [11:57] danimo: if I can give my 2 cents concerning the KDE structure, I think there are lots of things in it that should need more documentation [11:57] svn usage isn't easy to find out [11:57] BTS is (sorry for this) really messy [11:58] that doesn't help new contributors to help [11:58] there is s tutorial on svn on developer.kde.org [11:58] developper.kde.org is intended for developpers [11:58] and yes, bugzilla needs a lot more love [11:58] no [11:58] someone that just did a little patch will not de facto think of going there in my view [11:58] not only [11:58] danimo: but that's what a newbie will think about [11:58] why do non-developing contributors take the word so personally? :) [11:59] would you feel better if we symlinked it contributors.kde.org? [11:59] danimo: I think resources are there, but not easy to find, that's my feeling [11:59] danimo: and really the bts is an issue [11:59] yes, it is [11:59] search for a bug and you'll find everything except the one you're interested in......... [12:00] why not simply removing or caching the kde 2 ones ? [12:00] Tonio_: that's true for every bugzilla, though [12:00] Tonio_: KDE 2 bugs? [12:00] danimo: I know ;) [12:00] considering malone ? ^^ ;) [12:00] danimo: it is hard to find a bug for a specific version of kde [12:01] KDE 2 bugs should all be closed [12:01] danimo: so why do we find them when making a simple search ? [12:01] closed bugs should be hidden for example [12:01] Tonio_: I doubt we will changed to $funky_bts_of_the_day, since our problem is a contribution one really [12:01] danimo: yes kde misses the amount of contribution gnome has [12:02] our bts-maintainance-team is a one man show, really [12:02] Tonio_: in what respect? [12:02] danimo: I didn't knew that, that explains, indeed [12:02] Tonio_: you should really come to linuxtag so we can discuss this in details :) [12:02] I will on saturday ;) [12:03] I'll be pleased to discuss that with you and a good beer ;) === Lure will not be there ;-( [12:03] Tonio_: ah, cool, we'll meet then [12:03] Lure: :'( [12:03] yup [12:03] Lure: sorry for my ignorance, but what is .si ? [12:03] danimo: that's an issue [12:03] Tonio_: it is 8-9 hour train (one way!) or strange hours flights... [12:04] danimo: Slovenia [12:04] ah [12:04] danimo: users generally prefer kde, but about all developpers are under gnome [12:04] Tonio_: I don't share that view, but it might be a tendency [12:04] danimo: not "all" that's an image yes ;) [12:05] debian's developpers are generally gnome users, same for redhat etc.... [12:05] Tonio_: anyway, if you have concrete ideas on improvement, we're glad to hear about them [12:05] but final users seem to generally prefer kde [12:05] danimo: I have, raphink has too [12:05] Tonio_: some structures in the KDE community still haven't been changed since the foundation in 1996 [12:05] Tonio_: although we changed a _lot_ in our processes [12:05] danimo: the advantage is that since most of us a new contributors, we have an objective view of the situation :) === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:06] for example debian developers are fine with their tools [12:06] Tonio_: we just have to keep a huge project running inbetween all those modifications :) [12:06]