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| LaserJock | mdke: ok, I'm out for a while but I sent the list a summary of what I found with the book | 03:31 |
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| robotgeek | hmm, much ado about nothing | 04:05 |
| === robotgeek says non coc things and carries on | ||
| Madpilot | robotgeek, inspired by Mr. Tangye's latest missive? :P | 04:08 |
| robotgeek | yeah | 04:09 |
| robotgeek | he speaks much like the boss in Office Space | 04:10 |
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| Madpilot | I couldn't resist any more - I had to weigh in on Mr. Tangye's meanderings... ;) | 04:20 |
| robotgeek | hmm, lemme ask gmail again | 04:21 |
| Madpilot | it's another "show us the code" post, which I predict he'll ignore - again | 04:22 |
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| robotgeek | nicely worded | 04:23 |
| Madpilot | thnx | 04:24 |
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| robitaille | Madpilot: https://launchpad.net/people/davidtangye I'm not sure he can edit in the wiki, at least not when he created that page | 05:01 |
| Madpilot | sigh... | 05:02 |
| robotgeek | why don't people just cut the crap and edit the wiki | 05:04 |
| Madpilot | looks like he's having some login trouble | 05:04 |
| Madpilot | PEBCAK? | 05:04 |
| === robitaille was debating to write an email to explain the concept of teamwork, anyone can edit in the wiki, etc etc, but I don't think I'll even bother after looking at that LP page... | ||
| robotgeek | he edited the wiki, i think | 05:04 |
| Madpilot | yeah, I suspect that lp.net rant is out of date | 05:05 |
| Madpilot | his nick appears in RecentChanges | 05:06 |
| robitaille | http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Main/DavidTangye | 05:07 |
| robitaille | so obviously he knows how to deal with a wiki in general :) | 05:07 |
| robotgeek | he edited the wiki article, and it was a job well done. but i can't deal with all the BS which comes with it | 05:09 |
| robitaille | ah...he is a real estate agent. Maybe that's why he quickly goes into a sales pitch mode (and focus on your customers) in his emails: http://home.iprimus.com.au/DavidTangye/re/index.html | 05:10 |
| Madpilot | that might also explain the preoccupation with buzzwords ;) | 05:10 |
| robotgeek | heh | 05:11 |
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| Madpilot | robotgeek, ping | 05:38 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: pong | 05:40 |
| Madpilot | got time to mess with cover scripting ideas? | 05:41 |
| robotgeek | okay, lets start | 05:41 |
| Madpilot | just a sec, looking at some of the translated guides in svn | 05:45 |
| Madpilot | bleh - Matt was right, the entities aren't translated - it's all just plain text. Blast. | 05:47 |
| robotgeek | so what? | 05:50 |
| Madpilot | just grabbing &ubuntu; and &dg-title; and &ubuntu-doc-team; entities would have been easier, wouldn't it? | 05:51 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: i am trying to read the xml file directly | 05:52 |
| Madpilot | the trouble is telling the script where to look, though | 05:54 |
| Madpilot | for the translated versions of "Ubuntu Documentation Project" and "Desktop Guide" | 05:55 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: arent they in desktopguide/language/ ? | 05:57 |
| Madpilot | yes - I'm just trying to find an easy-to-find string we can grab | 05:58 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: what do you need in the xml, <title> | 05:59 |
| Madpilot | title of the actual guide | 06:00 |
| robotgeek | so in a particular guide, it would be in desktopguide.xml | 06:02 |
| robotgeek | title tag under book | 06:02 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, gah - thanks - I was looking in all sorts of difficult places. Doh! | 06:03 |
| Madpilot | it also looks like "Ubuntu Documentation Team" isn't often translated, actually | 06:03 |
| robotgeek | brbm phone | 06:04 |
| Madpilot | ...the French translation hasn't even changed "Ubuntu Desktop Guide" into French... | 06:04 |
| Madpilot | robitaille, your response to that "I'll take my toys and go home" bit was far, far more diplomatic than mine (which remained unsent, mercifully!) ;) | 06:06 |
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| jsgotangco | hey | 06:14 |
| Madpilot | hi | 06:16 |
| robitaille | Madpilot: yeah, I decided to play the nice email game. But that's most probably my first and last email in that discussion. I don't have much time to waste of this | 06:18 |
| jsgotangco | eh? | 06:19 |
| jsgotangco | :) | 06:19 |
| Madpilot | jsgotangco, the latest round of Mr. "all your docs are wrong" Tangye's emails... :P | 06:20 |
| jsgotangco | for some reason robitaille's emails always go to my trash | 06:20 |
| jsgotangco | er junk i man | 06:20 |
| jsgotangco | no that's too civil! | 06:23 |
| jsgotangco | :) | 06:23 |
| Madpilot | heh. the CoC is a terrible restraint on a good howling flamewar, isn't it? :P | 06:25 |
| robitaille | jsgotangco: my email are so bad? Or maybe I don't write enough of them, so your spam catcher doesn't have enough training :) | 06:26 |
| jsgotangco | lol i already whitelisted you heh | 06:27 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: back, sorry. phone | 06:27 |
| robitaille | Madpilot: I have a few other mailing list where I can participate in good old flame wars. | 06:27 |
| jsgotangco | he wants more structured flow | 06:27 |
| Madpilot | likewise. There's always Usenet if I need a real flamewar. ;) | 06:27 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 06:27 |
| robitaille | he needs to learn that we are part of teams | 06:28 |
| robitaille | and the team is more important than any of us | 06:28 |
| robitaille | I'm not sure he seems ready for the concepts | 06:29 |
| robitaille | s/the/these | 06:29 |
| Madpilot | no, he needs to actually produce some docs, not just talk. | 06:29 |
| robitaille | true | 06:29 |
| jsgotangco | he should just make a spec | 06:29 |
| robitaille | in 3 parts? :) | 06:30 |
| jsgotangco | sure | 06:30 |
| jsgotangco | hah | 06:30 |
| robitaille | but true, most of what he wrote should be a spec | 06:30 |
| jsgotangco | would anyone want to contribute to my food product spec | 06:32 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 06:32 |
| Madpilot | hmm - I need to start baking again ;) it's so much cheaper than raiding the bakery on my coffee breaks | 06:32 |
| robitaille | bug 42183 (the last paragraph) :) | 06:34 |
| robitaille | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/42183 | 06:34 |
| robitaille | that's our target customer | 06:35 |
| jsgotangco | that's not even a good bug report | 06:35 |
| Madpilot | that's one heck of a target... | 06:35 |
| robitaille | I thought it was funny. But it is a bad one.... | 06:36 |
| jsgotangco | we get lots of WTF bugs | 06:37 |
| jsgotangco | i only focus on xorg | 06:37 |
| jsgotangco | its more than enough | 06:37 |
| robitaille | My evening are full of bad reports, and need info reports, and "thanks for your report, but..." reports. The joy of bug triage | 06:38 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 06:38 |
| jsgotangco | targetting dupes is much harder even if you dont focus on a subset | 06:39 |
| robitaille | this week I'm focussing on old motu bugs. I have closed quite a few | 06:39 |
| jsgotangco | im going to finish up my commits for edubuntu-doc | 06:43 |
| jsgotangco | brb | 06:43 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/5CnWNf10.html | 06:51 |
| robotgeek | maybe i should just grep for the thing | 06:53 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, I saved that as 'covertext', made it executable, and got this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13111 | 06:58 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: yeah, i found that it happens if have not translation, fixing | 06:59 |
| Madpilot | which languages does it work in? | 07:00 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: say pt_BR, what do you want? | 07:00 |
| === robotgeek sips some Grand Marnier | ||
| robotgeek | it says, <title> translated text <phrase> ubuntu </phrase> </title> | 07:01 |
| Madpilot | cool, it works in pt_BR - "Guia do Desktop | 07:02 |
| Madpilot | " | 07:02 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: just tell me what outputs you need in both cases pt_BR / other | 07:03 |
| Madpilot | where we don't have a properly translated title, I'm not sure what we can do, TBH | 07:04 |
| Madpilot | beyond get in touch with the translation teams and get them to modify their docs again | 07:04 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: if tehre is no translation, i can make it o/p only Ubuntu Desktop Guide | 07:05 |
| Madpilot | yeah, it'll have to just stay as default | 07:05 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: do you want Guia La Desktop + Ubuntu or just Guia La Desktop | 07:07 |
| Madpilot | the "Ubuntu 6.06" text isn't going to change - we just need that 2nd line "Desktop Guide" | 07:08 |
| robotgeek | okay, i am not seeing what you are seeing. which translation are you loking at? | 07:09 |
| Madpilot | I'm not, actually. Just looking at the cover itself. | 07:10 |
| Madpilot | Currently we've got three lines of text on it: "Ubuntu 6.06", "Desktop Guide", and "Ubuntu Documentation Project" - but only the 2nd & 3rd need translations | 07:11 |
| robotgeek | i am not sure where Ubuntu Documentation Project is translated | 07:12 |
| Madpilot | neither am I :( | 07:12 |
| robotgeek | however, there is some more useful information in the omf file | 07:12 |
| robotgeek | http://rafb.net/paste/results/Ga2Pgb64.html is without that error, still does nothing more useful | 07:13 |
| Madpilot | actually, it looks like we use "...Documentation Team" rather than "...Project" in the guides | 07:14 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: stroke of luck, the omf files have translated names :) | 07:16 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, can you grab the <creator> tag stuff from the omf, and then remove the email address & extra stuff to supply the trans. of "Ubuntu Documentation Team"? | 07:17 |
| Madpilot | actually, it's "...Project" in the omf files - go figure | 07:18 |
| robotgeek | yeah, that should be simple | 07:18 |
| Madpilot | recommend a good basic intro to programming book? I *almost* grok this stuff, and wish I did... ;) | 07:19 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: this is all straight outta dive into python | 07:20 |
| robotgeek | xml processing chapter :) | 07:20 |
| Madpilot | cool, I apt-got that a while ago, might actually read it :) | 07:22 |
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| robotgeek | almost done, fighting some ascii issues :) | 07:28 |
| Madpilot | sweet | 07:29 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/ZYzKcv85.html | 07:35 |
| jsgotangco | hmm i feel so hot inside of me i had too much salsa :/ | 07:37 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/5nu4uv52.html sorry | 07:38 |
| rob | hi guys | 07:39 |
| robotgeek | hey rob | 07:39 |
| rob | the lulu thing is exciting, and I haven't done all that much lately on the guides :) | 07:39 |
| robotgeek | i havent done anything lately too | 07:40 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, got an error this time: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13113 | 07:40 |
| rob | I've stated throwing a few ideas and some code together for the online docbook editor I was talking about a little while ago | 07:40 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: did you get it from the second link? | 07:41 |
| Madpilot | yes | 07:41 |
| robotgeek | cause it works for me, can you paste it as text, save it and run it? | 07:42 |
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| Madpilot | sure, just a sec | 07:42 |
| robotgeek | rob: what you doing that in? | 07:43 |
| rob | robotgeek, python | 07:43 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, never mind, it worked the 2nd time - I might have been using the wrong pastebin's content | 07:45 |
| robotgeek | rob: cool | 07:45 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: i'm trying to get rid of the hardcoding, moment | 07:45 |
| rob | in a few weeks time (depending on my spare time) I'll hopefully have something to show everyone | 07:45 |
| LaserJock | rob: cool, look forward to it | 07:46 |
| jsgotangco | rob: make sure its not in 3 parts | 07:46 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 07:46 |
| jsgotangco | kidding | 07:46 |
| LaserJock | lol | 07:46 |
| rob | hehe | 07:46 |
| LaserJock | and make sure you never really get to the third part | 07:46 |
| jsgotangco | haha | 07:46 |
| rob | I plan on showing the code :) | 07:46 |
| LaserJock | but talk alot about the third part, even though you never really ever get there | 07:46 |
| jsgotangco | then at the end decide its just a waste of time | 07:47 |
| rob | lil | 07:47 |
| rob | err | 07:47 |
| rob | lol | 07:47 |
| LaserJock | argh, that guy is quite interesting | 07:47 |
| LaserJock | I kept thinking, "You dope, you think I don't think about the user when I write" | 07:47 |
| rob | I don't know about 'interesting', defiantly rude though | 07:48 |
| LaserJock | like it is a novel concept to try to write for users | 07:48 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: do you also want to me to get rid of the brackets too? ( blah ) | 07:48 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, yes | 07:48 |
| Madpilot | LaserJock, my target audience is me, circa June 2005, when I'd had Ubuntu on this box about a week :P | 07:49 |
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| LaserJock | I should just write for sabdfl because he can sponsor me to the dev conference ;-) | 07:57 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/JKdPCD88.html | 07:57 |
| LaserJock | who cares about the users. Obviously we don't (in the eyes of some apparently) | 07:57 |
| jsgotangco | lol | 07:58 |
| robotgeek | we dont' care about users since they don't pay us. there, i said it | 07:58 |
| === LaserJock gasps | ||
| jsgotangco | yeah users are basically PEBKAC | 07:58 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, works nicely (the script, that is) ;) | 07:59 |
| mgalvin | *cough*we are apparently chimps in a psychological experiment where dave pokes us to see if he can annoy us*cough* | 07:59 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: i just hacked something together, i am guessing i'll come up with something totally different | 07:59 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: anything else you need? | 08:00 |
| manicka | can I quote you on that robotgeek? | 08:00 |
| jsgotangco | lol | 08:00 |
| LaserJock | mgalvin: hehe, that must be it | 08:00 |
| Madpilot | mgalvin, it's working :P | 08:00 |
| === robotgeek hides from manicka | ||
| manicka | I pick the best times to drop in... | 08:00 |
| manicka | :) | 08:01 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, it's good so far - now we need to get the translated text into the SVGs and get Inkscape to output new PNGs | 08:01 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: you need something for the title also, right? | 08:01 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, yes, we need the title string too | 08:02 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, <title> in the omf file | 08:03 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: done | 08:05 |
| Madpilot | nice | 08:05 |
| robotgeek | http://rafb.net/paste/results/VR6fHp60.html | 08:06 |
| robotgeek | that code is of a hackish quality, but it works | 08:09 |
| Madpilot | yes, works here | 08:09 |
| robotgeek | cool, let's move to next step then | 08:10 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, http://www.warbard.ca/temp/Ubuntu_SVG/ <-- SVG files for the cover images | 08:11 |
| === robotgeek thinks it is going to get very ugly | ||
| Madpilot | robotgeek, We're interested in the text in the 2nd & 3rd sets of <tspan> tags in the SVGs | 08:14 |
| jsgotangco | what are you guys doing? | 08:15 |
| Madpilot | jsgotangco, translations on the cover images | 08:16 |
| jsgotangco | for lulu? | 08:16 |
| Madpilot | jsgotangco, getting the translated strings from our XML, editing the SVG files, then creating PNGs for Lulu | 08:16 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: hmm, i'm having difficult seeing this without folding, one moment | 08:19 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: okay, found it. obviously, this will be different in other documents? | 08:28 |
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| Madpilot | robotgeek, provided there's only ever three text areas, the two we care about should always be 2nd & 3rd (unless someone totally rebuilds the SVGs, then all bets are off...) | 08:29 |
| robotgeek | kk, then we can hardcode without worry (i hope) | 08:30 |
| mgalvin | night all | 08:30 |
| Madpilot | for now, anyway | 08:30 |
| jsgotangco | hey the ubuntu book is now in amazon | 08:30 |
| Madpilot | the official one? Yeah, it's been there a few weeks at least | 08:31 |
| jsgotangco | it has corey and jonathan at the front | 08:31 |
| jsgotangco | i just saw it today | 08:31 |
| robitaille | wow...a search for ubuntu in amazon turns out a few to-be-published books I didn't know about | 08:35 |
| jsgotangco | ubuntu unleashed... | 08:38 |
| robitaille | not surprising considering the apparent popularity of the distro. | 08:38 |
| robitaille | But now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever bought a book about Linux. | 08:39 |
| LaserJock | I have a Red Hat 7.2 book | 08:39 |
| jsgotangco | i have a core linux book | 08:39 |
| === jsgotangco is shamed | ||
| robitaille | I got a couple of Unix book way when, but that's about it for purchases | 08:40 |
| robitaille | s/way when/way back when | 08:40 |
| jsgotangco | i have a nutshell book though which is very very useful | 08:40 |
| LaserJock | I have a little emacs booklet | 08:40 |
| LaserJock | I don't read it much since I mostly use vim now | 08:41 |
| jsgotangco | i only use emacs for emacs-wiki and planner-el | 08:41 |
| === robitaille actually had a vi versus emacs versus pico with his wife and someone else this afternoon :) | ||
| robitaille | I use vi most of the time | 08:42 |
| LaserJock | heh | 08:42 |
| robitaille | she is the emacs type | 08:42 |
| LaserJock | I'd get into it with my advisor if he ever found out I was using vim | 08:42 |
| robitaille | and we are still married after all these years :) | 08:42 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: dang it, the Kubuntu svn is slightly different | 08:43 |
| robotgeek | i'll come up with some code tommorow, too sleepy now | 08:43 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, hmm, tomorrow I'll bash at the SVG, see if we can't get better layout to make the script easier to use... | 08:44 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/2LQWPj81.html is what i hve till now | 08:44 |
| robotgeek | i'll try to get the element names using tagnames, it should be easier that way | 08:44 |
| robotgeek | and of course, writing it and renaming the damn thing | 08:45 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek, nice work | 08:46 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: don't really bother with the svg, the way i am doing it is not right | 08:46 |
| === robotgeek wishes he know python better | ||
| Madpilot | robotgeek, OK, I'll leave it | 08:46 |
| robotgeek | cool, cya tommoro | 08:47 |
| Madpilot | night | 08:47 |
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| LaserJock | robotgeek: I'm interested in Python as well. I was thinking for edgy of making some scripts that would be useful for the doc team | 09:09 |
| rob | LaserJock, what like? | 09:10 |
| LaserJock | xml validator, xml stripper (to plain text) I don't know, I'll have to think of something :-) | 09:12 |
| rob | well, as part of my online editor I'm planning on giving the ability to download in plain text | 09:13 |
| rob | if you do I might steal it from you :) | 09:13 |
| LaserJock | I got a copy of Python Cookbook not to long ago and it was giving me ideas | 09:13 |
| Madpilot | we've got a validator already, seems to work fairly well - you could work with Matt East on our convert-to-PDF stuff (not sure which tools he's using for that, actually) | 09:13 |
| jsgotangco | make it something that'll give a hotdog sandwhich as output | 09:13 |
| === jsgotangco hides | ||
| LaserJock | food on the brain? | 09:14 |
| rob | there are actually some nice conversion tools available, see xmlto | 09:14 |
| rob | converts to all kinds of things (pdf, text, latex etc) | 09:14 |
| LaserJock | yeah, I was just thinking maybe we need to pull some things together so new people can just run a script or something | 09:15 |
| LaserJock | I don't know, I'll have to look into it more | 09:15 |
| jsgotangco | i gotta go | 09:16 |
| jsgotangco | see ya | 09:17 |
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| mdke | morning | 11:46 |
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| klepas | moin | 12:17 |
| mdke | hi klepas | 12:17 |
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| mdke | Laser_away: fop can do xml to plain text | 12:29 |
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| jsgotangco | hey | 12:56 |
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| kbrooks | hi :-) | 09:37 |
| LaserJock | hi kbrooks | 09:37 |
| LaserJock | mdke: around? | 09:38 |
| kbrooks | LaserJock: whats up? | 09:38 |
| LaserJock | kbrooks: oh, I've always got things to do :-) | 09:39 |
| LaserJock | how about yourself | 09:39 |
| kbrooks | LaserJock: nothing much. | 09:39 |
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| LaserJock | mdke: nevermind, I'll talk to you later | 09:47 |
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| highvoltage | 0/win 11 | 10:43 |
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| Burgundavia | mdke: your blog says Ubuntu linux, not Ubuntu, a linux based operating system | 11:09 |
| Burgundavia | mdke: do I have to "standard name email" you? ;) | 11:09 |
| highvoltage | Burgundavia: seems like "Ubuntu Linux" is kind of official, hey :/ | 11:12 |
| Burgundavia | highvoltage: it is not Ubuntu Linux | 11:12 |
| Burgundavia | it is Ubuntu | 11:12 |
| Burgundavia | we were Ubuntu Linux in the warty days | 11:12 |
| highvoltage | ok, I wasn't quite aware of that, but I'm happy to learn this :) | 11:12 |
| highvoltage | Ubuntu is much better than Ubuntu Linux. If it were Ubuntu Linux i would expect it to be Ubuntu GNU/Linux | 11:13 |
| Burgundavia | hence why just Ubuntu | 11:13 |
| Burgundavia | it also establishes us as a brand seperate from Linux | 11:14 |
| highvoltage | also good for when the HURD hits 1.0 :) | 11:15 |
| Burgundavia | in 2300? | 11:16 |
| highvoltage | well, it's good to plan ahead ;) | 11:19 |
| Burgundavia | highvoltage: hurd 1.0 is a little excessive, n'cest pa? | 11:23 |
| highvoltage | ok, let's aim for hurd 0.4 then. | 11:23 |
| mdke | Burgundavia: my new blog doesn't say it, I can't be bothered to change the old one. | 11:38 |
| Burgundavia | mdke: ah, ok | 11:45 |
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