=== Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc === KingBahamut [n=bahamut@c-24-98-229-28.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:31] mdke: ok, I'm out for a while but I sent the list a summary of what I found with the book === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bahamut_ [n=bahamut@c-24-98-229-28.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:05] hmm, much ado about nothing === robotgeek says non coc things and carries on [04:08] robotgeek, inspired by Mr. Tangye's latest missive? :P [04:09] yeah [04:10] he speaks much like the boss in Office Space === Unfrgiven [n=ankur@ubuntu/member/unfrgiven] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:20] I couldn't resist any more - I had to weigh in on Mr. Tangye's meanderings... ;) [04:21] hmm, lemme ask gmail again [04:22] it's another "show us the code" post, which I predict he'll ignore - again === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:23] nicely worded [04:24] thnx === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:01] Madpilot: https://launchpad.net/people/davidtangye I'm not sure he can edit in the wiki, at least not when he created that page [05:02] sigh... [05:04] why don't people just cut the crap and edit the wiki [05:04] looks like he's having some login trouble [05:04] PEBCAK? === robitaille was debating to write an email to explain the concept of teamwork, anyone can edit in the wiki, etc etc, but I don't think I'll even bother after looking at that LP page... [05:04] he edited the wiki, i think [05:05] yeah, I suspect that lp.net rant is out of date [05:06] his nick appears in RecentChanges [05:07] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Main/DavidTangye [05:07] so obviously he knows how to deal with a wiki in general :) [05:09] he edited the wiki article, and it was a job well done. but i can't deal with all the BS which comes with it [05:10] ah...he is a real estate agent. Maybe that's why he quickly goes into a sales pitch mode (and focus on your customers) in his emails: http://home.iprimus.com.au/DavidTangye/re/index.html [05:10] that might also explain the preoccupation with buzzwords ;) [05:11] heh === poningru [n=poningru@ip68-226-0-76.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:38] robotgeek, ping [05:40] Madpilot: pong [05:41] got time to mess with cover scripting ideas? [05:41] okay, lets start [05:45] just a sec, looking at some of the translated guides in svn [05:47] bleh - Matt was right, the entities aren't translated - it's all just plain text. Blast. [05:50] so what? [05:51] just grabbing &ubuntu; and &dg-title; and &ubuntu-doc-team; entities would have been easier, wouldn't it? [05:52] Madpilot: i am trying to read the xml file directly [05:54] the trouble is telling the script where to look, though [05:55] for the translated versions of "Ubuntu Documentation Project" and "Desktop Guide" [05:57] Madpilot: arent they in desktopguide/language/ ? [05:58] yes - I'm just trying to find an easy-to-find string we can grab [05:59] Madpilot: what do you need in the xml, [06:00] <Madpilot> title of the actual guide [06:02] <robotgeek> so in a particular guide, it would be in desktopguide.xml [06:02] <robotgeek> title tag under book [06:03] <Madpilot> robotgeek, gah - thanks - I was looking in all sorts of difficult places. Doh! [06:03] <Madpilot> it also looks like "Ubuntu Documentation Team" isn't often translated, actually [06:04] <robotgeek> brbm phone [06:04] <Madpilot> ...the French translation hasn't even changed "Ubuntu Desktop Guide" into French... [06:06] <Madpilot> robitaille, your response to that "I'll take my toys and go home" bit was far, far more diplomatic than mine (which remained unsent, mercifully!) ;) === KingBahamut [n=bahamut@c-24-98-229-28.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:14] <jsgotangco> hey [06:16] <Madpilot> hi [06:18] <robitaille> Madpilot: yeah, I decided to play the nice email game. But that's most probably my first and last email in that discussion. I don't have much time to waste of this [06:19] <jsgotangco> eh? [06:19] <jsgotangco> :) [06:20] <Madpilot> jsgotangco, the latest round of Mr. "all your docs are wrong" Tangye's emails... :P [06:20] <jsgotangco> for some reason robitaille's emails always go to my trash [06:20] <jsgotangco> er junk i man [06:23] <jsgotangco> no that's too civil! [06:23] <jsgotangco> :) [06:25] <Madpilot> heh. the CoC is a terrible restraint on a good howling flamewar, isn't it? :P [06:26] <robitaille> jsgotangco: my email are so bad? Or maybe I don't write enough of them, so your spam catcher doesn't have enough training :) [06:27] <jsgotangco> lol i already whitelisted you heh [06:27] <robotgeek> Madpilot: back, sorry. phone [06:27] <robitaille> Madpilot: I have a few other mailing list where I can participate in good old flame wars. [06:27] <jsgotangco> he wants more structured flow [06:27] <Madpilot> likewise. There's always Usenet if I need a real flamewar. ;) [06:27] <jsgotangco> heh [06:28] <robitaille> he needs to learn that we are part of teams [06:28] <robitaille> and the team is more important than any of us [06:29] <robitaille> I'm not sure he seems ready for the concepts [06:29] <robitaille> s/the/these [06:29] <Madpilot> no, he needs to actually produce some docs, not just talk. [06:29] <robitaille> true [06:29] <jsgotangco> he should just make a spec [06:30] <robitaille> in 3 parts? :) [06:30] <jsgotangco> sure [06:30] <jsgotangco> hah [06:30] <robitaille> but true, most of what he wrote should be a spec [06:32] <jsgotangco> would anyone want to contribute to my food product spec [06:32] <jsgotangco> heh [06:32] <Madpilot> hmm - I need to start baking again ;) it's so much cheaper than raiding the bakery on my coffee breaks [06:34] <robitaille> bug 42183 (the last paragraph) :) [06:34] <robitaille> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/42183 [06:35] <robitaille> that's our target customer [06:35] <jsgotangco> that's not even a good bug report [06:35] <Madpilot> that's one heck of a target... [06:36] <robitaille> I thought it was funny. But it is a bad one.... [06:37] <jsgotangco> we get lots of WTF bugs [06:37] <jsgotangco> i only focus on xorg [06:37] <jsgotangco> its more than enough [06:38] <robitaille> My evening are full of bad reports, and need info reports, and "thanks for your report, but..." reports. The joy of bug triage [06:38] <jsgotangco> yeah [06:39] <jsgotangco> targetting dupes is much harder even if you dont focus on a subset [06:39] <robitaille> this week I'm focussing on old motu bugs. I have closed quite a few [06:43] <jsgotangco> im going to finish up my commits for edubuntu-doc [06:43] <jsgotangco> brb [06:51] <robotgeek> Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/5CnWNf10.html [06:53] <robotgeek> maybe i should just grep for the thing [06:58] <Madpilot> robotgeek, I saved that as 'covertext', made it executable, and got this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13111 [06:59] <robotgeek> Madpilot: yeah, i found that it happens if have not translation, fixing [07:00] <Madpilot> which languages does it work in? [07:00] <robotgeek> Madpilot: say pt_BR, what do you want? === robotgeek sips some Grand Marnier [07:01] <robotgeek> it says, <title> translated text <phrase> ubuntu </phrase> [07:02] cool, it works in pt_BR - "Guia do Desktop [07:02] " [07:03] Madpilot: just tell me what outputs you need in both cases pt_BR / other [07:04] where we don't have a properly translated title, I'm not sure what we can do, TBH [07:04] beyond get in touch with the translation teams and get them to modify their docs again [07:05] Madpilot: if tehre is no translation, i can make it o/p only Ubuntu Desktop Guide [07:05] yeah, it'll have to just stay as default [07:07] Madpilot: do you want Guia La Desktop + Ubuntu or just Guia La Desktop [07:08] the "Ubuntu 6.06" text isn't going to change - we just need that 2nd line "Desktop Guide" [07:09] okay, i am not seeing what you are seeing. which translation are you loking at? [07:10] I'm not, actually. Just looking at the cover itself. [07:11] Currently we've got three lines of text on it: "Ubuntu 6.06", "Desktop Guide", and "Ubuntu Documentation Project" - but only the 2nd & 3rd need translations [07:12] i am not sure where Ubuntu Documentation Project is translated [07:12] neither am I :( [07:12] however, there is some more useful information in the omf file [07:13] http://rafb.net/paste/results/Ga2Pgb64.html is without that error, still does nothing more useful [07:14] actually, it looks like we use "...Documentation Team" rather than "...Project" in the guides [07:16] Madpilot: stroke of luck, the omf files have translated names :) [07:17] robotgeek, can you grab the tag stuff from the omf, and then remove the email address & extra stuff to supply the trans. of "Ubuntu Documentation Team"? [07:18] actually, it's "...Project" in the omf files - go figure [07:18] yeah, that should be simple [07:19] recommend a good basic intro to programming book? I *almost* grok this stuff, and wish I did... ;) [07:20] Madpilot: this is all straight outta dive into python [07:20] xml processing chapter :) [07:22] cool, I apt-got that a while ago, might actually read it :) === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:28] almost done, fighting some ascii issues :) [07:29] sweet [07:35] Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/ZYzKcv85.html [07:37] hmm i feel so hot inside of me i had too much salsa :/ [07:38] Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/5nu4uv52.html sorry [07:39] hi guys [07:39] hey rob [07:39] the lulu thing is exciting, and I haven't done all that much lately on the guides :) [07:40] i havent done anything lately too [07:40] robotgeek, got an error this time: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13113 [07:40] I've stated throwing a few ideas and some code together for the online docbook editor I was talking about a little while ago [07:41] Madpilot: did you get it from the second link? [07:41] yes [07:42] cause it works for me, can you paste it as text, save it and run it? === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@59.92.97.13] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:42] sure, just a sec [07:43] rob: what you doing that in? [07:43] robotgeek, python [07:45] robotgeek, never mind, it worked the 2nd time - I might have been using the wrong pastebin's content [07:45] rob: cool [07:45] Madpilot: i'm trying to get rid of the hardcoding, moment [07:45] in a few weeks time (depending on my spare time) I'll hopefully have something to show everyone [07:46] rob: cool, look forward to it [07:46] rob: make sure its not in 3 parts [07:46] heh [07:46] kidding [07:46] lol [07:46] hehe [07:46] and make sure you never really get to the third part [07:46] haha [07:46] I plan on showing the code :) [07:46] but talk alot about the third part, even though you never really ever get there [07:47] then at the end decide its just a waste of time [07:47] lil [07:47] err [07:47] lol [07:47] argh, that guy is quite interesting [07:47] I kept thinking, "You dope, you think I don't think about the user when I write" [07:48] I don't know about 'interesting', defiantly rude though [07:48] like it is a novel concept to try to write for users [07:48] Madpilot: do you also want to me to get rid of the brackets too? ( blah ) [07:48] robotgeek, yes [07:49] LaserJock, my target audience is me, circa June 2005, when I'd had Ubuntu on this box about a week :P === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:57] I should just write for sabdfl because he can sponsor me to the dev conference ;-) [07:57] Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/JKdPCD88.html [07:57] who cares about the users. Obviously we don't (in the eyes of some apparently) [07:58] lol [07:58] we dont' care about users since they don't pay us. there, i said it === LaserJock gasps [07:58] yeah users are basically PEBKAC [07:59] robotgeek, works nicely (the script, that is) ;) [07:59] *cough*we are apparently chimps in a psychological experiment where dave pokes us to see if he can annoy us*cough* [07:59] Madpilot: i just hacked something together, i am guessing i'll come up with something totally different [08:00] Madpilot: anything else you need? [08:00] can I quote you on that robotgeek? [08:00] lol [08:00] mgalvin: hehe, that must be it [08:00] mgalvin, it's working :P === robotgeek hides from manicka [08:00] I pick the best times to drop in... [08:01] :) [08:01] robotgeek, it's good so far - now we need to get the translated text into the SVGs and get Inkscape to output new PNGs [08:01] Madpilot: you need something for the title also, right? [08:02] robotgeek, yes, we need the title string too [08:03] robotgeek, in the omf file [08:05] <robotgeek> Madpilot: done [08:05] <Madpilot> nice [08:06] <robotgeek> http://rafb.net/paste/results/VR6fHp60.html [08:09] <robotgeek> that code is of a hackish quality, but it works [08:09] <Madpilot> yes, works here [08:10] <robotgeek> cool, let's move to next step then [08:11] <Madpilot> robotgeek, http://www.warbard.ca/temp/Ubuntu_SVG/ <-- SVG files for the cover images === robotgeek thinks it is going to get very ugly [08:14] <Madpilot> robotgeek, We're interested in the text in the 2nd & 3rd sets of <tspan> tags in the SVGs [08:15] <jsgotangco> what are you guys doing? [08:16] <Madpilot> jsgotangco, translations on the cover images [08:16] <jsgotangco> for lulu? [08:16] <Madpilot> jsgotangco, getting the translated strings from our XML, editing the SVG files, then creating PNGs for Lulu [08:19] <robotgeek> Madpilot: hmm, i'm having difficult seeing this without folding, one moment [08:28] <robotgeek> Madpilot: okay, found it. obviously, this will be different in other documents? === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:29] <Madpilot> robotgeek, provided there's only ever three text areas, the two we care about should always be 2nd & 3rd (unless someone totally rebuilds the SVGs, then all bets are off...) [08:30] <robotgeek> kk, then we can hardcode without worry (i hope) [08:30] <mgalvin> night all [08:30] <Madpilot> for now, anyway [08:30] <jsgotangco> hey the ubuntu book is now in amazon [08:31] <Madpilot> the official one? Yeah, it's been there a few weeks at least [08:31] <jsgotangco> it has corey and jonathan at the front [08:31] <jsgotangco> i just saw it today [08:35] <robitaille> wow...a search for ubuntu in amazon turns out a few to-be-published books I didn't know about [08:38] <jsgotangco> ubuntu unleashed... [08:38] <robitaille> not surprising considering the apparent popularity of the distro. [08:39] <robitaille> But now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever bought a book about Linux. [08:39] <LaserJock> I have a Red Hat 7.2 book [08:39] <jsgotangco> i have a core linux book === jsgotangco is shamed [08:40] <robitaille> I got a couple of Unix book way when, but that's about it for purchases [08:40] <robitaille> s/way when/way back when [08:40] <jsgotangco> i have a nutshell book though which is very very useful [08:40] <LaserJock> I have a little emacs booklet [08:41] <LaserJock> I don't read it much since I mostly use vim now [08:41] <jsgotangco> i only use emacs for emacs-wiki and planner-el === robitaille actually had a vi versus emacs versus pico with his wife and someone else this afternoon :) [08:42] <robitaille> I use vi most of the time [08:42] <LaserJock> heh [08:42] <robitaille> she is the emacs type [08:42] <LaserJock> I'd get into it with my advisor if he ever found out I was using vim [08:42] <robitaille> and we are still married after all these years :) [08:43] <robotgeek> Madpilot: dang it, the Kubuntu svn is slightly different [08:43] <robotgeek> i'll come up with some code tommorow, too sleepy now [08:44] <Madpilot> robotgeek, hmm, tomorrow I'll bash at the SVG, see if we can't get better layout to make the script easier to use... [08:44] <robotgeek> Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/2LQWPj81.html is what i hve till now [08:44] <robotgeek> i'll try to get the element names using tagnames, it should be easier that way [08:45] <robotgeek> and of course, writing it and renaming the damn thing [08:46] <Madpilot> robotgeek, nice work [08:46] <robotgeek> Madpilot: don't really bother with the svg, the way i am doing it is not right === robotgeek wishes he know python better [08:46] <Madpilot> robotgeek, OK, I'll leave it [08:47] <robotgeek> cool, cya tommoro [08:47] <Madpilot> night === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:09] <LaserJock> robotgeek: I'm interested in Python as well. I was thinking for edgy of making some scripts that would be useful for the doc team [09:10] <rob> LaserJock, what like? [09:12] <LaserJock> xml validator, xml stripper (to plain text) I don't know, I'll have to think of something :-) [09:13] <rob> well, as part of my online editor I'm planning on giving the ability to download in plain text [09:13] <rob> if you do I might steal it from you :) [09:13] <LaserJock> I got a copy of Python Cookbook not to long ago and it was giving me ideas [09:13] <Madpilot> we've got a validator already, seems to work fairly well - you could work with Matt East on our convert-to-PDF stuff (not sure which tools he's using for that, actually) [09:13] <jsgotangco> make it something that'll give a hotdog sandwhich as output === jsgotangco hides [09:14] <LaserJock> food on the brain? [09:14] <rob> there are actually some nice conversion tools available, see xmlto [09:14] <rob> converts to all kinds of things (pdf, text, latex etc) [09:15] <LaserJock> yeah, I was just thinking maybe we need to pull some things together so new people can just run a script or something [09:15] <LaserJock> I don't know, I'll have to look into it more [09:16] <jsgotangco> i gotta go [09:17] <jsgotangco> see ya === dsas [n=dean@host81-158-81-220.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === klepas_ [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Cturtle [n=Cturtle@a213-84-50-38.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:46] <mdke> morning === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:17] <klepas> moin [12:17] <mdke> hi klepas === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:29] <mdke> Laser_away: fop can do xml to plain text === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:56] <jsgotangco> hey === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === joachim-n [n=joachim@AC8DE36E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sladen [i=paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@host81-158-81-220.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@host81-158-81-220.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@59.92.46.229] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@203-173-141-46.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas_ [n=dean@host81-158-81-220.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lakin [n=lakin@S01060013101832ce.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === boglot [i=chaas@haas.workdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === m_tristeloco [n=michal@62.218.247.160] has joined #ubuntu-doc === m_tristeloco [n=michal@62.218.247.160] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === boglot [i=chaas@haas.workdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jenda [n=jenda@unaffiliated/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@59.92.55.129] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kbrooks [n=kbrooks@unaffiliated/kbrooks] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:37] <kbrooks> hi :-) [09:37] <LaserJock> hi kbrooks [09:38] <LaserJock> mdke: around? [09:38] <kbrooks> LaserJock: whats up? [09:39] <LaserJock> kbrooks: oh, I've always got things to do :-) [09:39] <LaserJock> how about yourself [09:39] <kbrooks> LaserJock: nothing much. === highvoltage [n=Jono@mtngprs7.mtn.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:47] <LaserJock> mdke: nevermind, I'll talk to you later === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-238-249.nr.ip.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:43] <highvoltage> 0/win 11 === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:09] <Burgundavia> mdke: your blog says Ubuntu linux, not Ubuntu, a linux based operating system [11:09] <Burgundavia> mdke: do I have to "standard name email" you? ;) [11:12] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: seems like "Ubuntu Linux" is kind of official, hey :/ [11:12] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: it is not Ubuntu Linux [11:12] <Burgundavia> it is Ubuntu [11:12] <Burgundavia> we were Ubuntu Linux in the warty days [11:12] <highvoltage> ok, I wasn't quite aware of that, but I'm happy to learn this :) [11:13] <highvoltage> Ubuntu is much better than Ubuntu Linux. If it were Ubuntu Linux i would expect it to be Ubuntu GNU/Linux [11:13] <Burgundavia> hence why just Ubuntu [11:14] <Burgundavia> it also establishes us as a brand seperate from Linux [11:15] <highvoltage> also good for when the HURD hits 1.0 :) [11:16] <Burgundavia> in 2300? [11:19] <highvoltage> well, it's good to plan ahead ;) [11:23] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: hurd 1.0 is a little excessive, n'cest pa? [11:23] <highvoltage> ok, let's aim for hurd 0.4 then. [11:38] <mdke> Burgundavia: my new blog doesn't say it, I can't be bothered to change the old one. [11:45] <Burgundavia> mdke: ah, ok