[03:31] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, I'm out for a while but I sent the list a summary of what I found with the book
[04:05] <robotgeek> hmm, much ado about nothing
[04:08] <Madpilot> robotgeek, inspired by Mr. Tangye's latest missive? :P
[04:09] <robotgeek> yeah
[04:10] <robotgeek> he speaks much like the boss in Office Space
[04:20] <Madpilot> I couldn't resist any more - I had to weigh in on Mr. Tangye's meanderings... ;)
[04:21] <robotgeek> hmm, lemme ask gmail again
[04:22] <Madpilot> it's another "show us the code" post, which I predict he'll ignore - again
[04:23] <robotgeek> nicely worded
[04:24] <Madpilot> thnx
[05:01] <robitaille> Madpilot: https://launchpad.net/people/davidtangye     I'm not sure he can edit in the wiki, at least not when he created that page
[05:02] <Madpilot> sigh...
[05:04] <robotgeek> why don't people just cut the crap and edit the wiki
[05:04] <Madpilot> looks like he's having some login trouble
[05:04] <Madpilot> PEBCAK?
[05:04] <robotgeek> he edited the wiki, i think
[05:05] <Madpilot> yeah, I suspect that lp.net rant is out of date
[05:06] <Madpilot> his nick appears in RecentChanges
[05:07] <robitaille> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Main/DavidTangye
[05:07] <robitaille> so obviously he knows how to deal with a wiki in general :)
[05:09] <robotgeek> he edited the wiki article, and it was a job well done. but i can't deal with all the  BS which comes with it
[05:10] <robitaille> ah...he is a real estate agent.   Maybe that's why he quickly goes into a sales pitch mode (and focus on your customers) in his emails: http://home.iprimus.com.au/DavidTangye/re/index.html
[05:10] <Madpilot> that might also explain the preoccupation with buzzwords ;)
[05:11] <robotgeek> heh
[05:38] <Madpilot> robotgeek, ping
[05:40] <robotgeek> Madpilot: pong
[05:41] <Madpilot> got time to mess with cover scripting ideas?
[05:41] <robotgeek> okay, lets start
[05:45] <Madpilot> just a sec, looking at some of the translated guides in svn
[05:47] <Madpilot> bleh - Matt was right, the entities aren't translated - it's all just plain text. Blast.
[05:50] <robotgeek> so what?
[05:51] <Madpilot> just grabbing &ubuntu; and &dg-title; and &ubuntu-doc-team; entities would have been easier, wouldn't it?
[05:52] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i am trying to read the xml file directly
[05:54] <Madpilot> the trouble is telling the script where to look, though
[05:55] <Madpilot> for the translated versions of "Ubuntu Documentation Project" and "Desktop Guide"
[05:57] <robotgeek> Madpilot: arent they in desktopguide/language/ ?
[05:58] <Madpilot> yes - I'm just trying to find an easy-to-find string we can grab
[05:59] <robotgeek> Madpilot: what do you need in the xml, <title> 
[06:00] <Madpilot> title of the actual guide
[06:02] <robotgeek> so in a particular guide, it would be in desktopguide.xml 
[06:02] <robotgeek> title tag under book
[06:03] <Madpilot> robotgeek, gah - thanks - I was looking in all sorts of difficult places. Doh!
[06:03] <Madpilot> it also looks like "Ubuntu Documentation Team" isn't often translated, actually
[06:04] <robotgeek> brbm phone
[06:04] <Madpilot> ...the French translation hasn't even changed "Ubuntu Desktop Guide" into French...
[06:06] <Madpilot> robitaille, your response to that "I'll take my toys and go home" bit was far, far more diplomatic than mine (which remained unsent, mercifully!) ;)
[06:14] <jsgotangco> hey
[06:16] <Madpilot> hi
[06:18] <robitaille> Madpilot:  yeah, I decided to play the nice email game.    But that's most probably my first and last email in that discussion.  I don't have much time to waste of this 
[06:19] <jsgotangco> eh?
[06:19] <jsgotangco> :)
[06:20] <Madpilot> jsgotangco, the latest round of Mr. "all your docs are wrong" Tangye's emails... :P
[06:20] <jsgotangco> for some reason robitaille's emails always go to my trash
[06:20] <jsgotangco> er junk i man
[06:23] <jsgotangco> no that's too civil!
[06:23] <jsgotangco> :)
[06:25] <Madpilot> heh. the CoC is a terrible restraint on a good howling flamewar, isn't it? :P
[06:26] <robitaille> jsgotangco:  my email are so bad?  Or maybe I don't write enough of them, so your spam catcher doesn't have enough training :)
[06:27] <jsgotangco> lol i already whitelisted you heh
[06:27] <robotgeek> Madpilot: back, sorry. phone
[06:27] <robitaille> Madpilot:  I have a few other mailing list where I can participate in good old flame wars.  
[06:27] <jsgotangco> he wants more structured flow
[06:27] <Madpilot> likewise. There's always Usenet if I need a real flamewar. ;)
[06:27] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:28] <robitaille> he needs to learn that we are part of teams
[06:28] <robitaille> and the team is more important than any of us
[06:29] <robitaille> I'm not sure he seems ready for the concepts
[06:29] <robitaille> s/the/these
[06:29] <Madpilot> no, he needs to actually produce some docs, not just talk.
[06:29] <robitaille> true
[06:29] <jsgotangco> he should just make a spec
[06:30] <robitaille> in 3 parts? :)
[06:30] <jsgotangco> sure
[06:30] <jsgotangco> hah
[06:30] <robitaille> but true, most of what he wrote should be a spec
[06:32] <jsgotangco> would anyone want to contribute to my food product spec
[06:32] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:32] <Madpilot> hmm - I need to start baking again ;) it's so much cheaper than raiding the bakery on my coffee breaks
[06:34] <robitaille> bug 42183   (the last paragraph) :)
[06:34] <robitaille> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/42183
[06:35] <robitaille> that's our target customer
[06:35] <jsgotangco> that's not even a good bug report
[06:35] <Madpilot> that's one heck of a target...
[06:36] <robitaille> I thought it was funny.  But it is a bad one....
[06:37] <jsgotangco> we get lots of WTF bugs
[06:37] <jsgotangco> i only focus on xorg
[06:37] <jsgotangco> its more than enough
[06:38] <robitaille> My evening are full of bad reports, and need info reports, and "thanks for your report, but..." reports.  The joy of bug triage
[06:38] <jsgotangco> yeah
[06:39] <jsgotangco> targetting dupes is much harder even if you dont focus on a subset
[06:39] <robitaille> this week I'm focussing on old motu bugs.  I have closed quite a few  
[06:43] <jsgotangco> im going to finish up my commits for edubuntu-doc
[06:43] <jsgotangco> brb
[06:51] <robotgeek> Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/5CnWNf10.html
[06:53] <robotgeek> maybe i should just grep for the thing
[06:58] <Madpilot> robotgeek, I saved that as 'covertext', made it executable, and got this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13111
[06:59] <robotgeek> Madpilot: yeah, i found that it happens if have not translation, fixing
[07:00] <Madpilot> which languages does it work in?
[07:00] <robotgeek> Madpilot: say pt_BR, what do you want?
[07:01] <robotgeek> it says, <title> translated text <phrase> ubuntu </phrase> </title>
[07:02] <Madpilot> cool, it works in pt_BR - "Guia do Desktop
[07:02] <Madpilot> "
[07:03] <robotgeek> Madpilot: just tell me what outputs you need in both cases pt_BR / other
[07:04] <Madpilot> where we don't have a properly translated title, I'm not sure what we can do, TBH
[07:04] <Madpilot> beyond get in touch with the translation teams and get them to modify their docs again
[07:05] <robotgeek> Madpilot: if tehre is no translation, i can make it o/p only Ubuntu Desktop Guide
[07:05] <Madpilot> yeah, it'll have to just stay as default
[07:07] <robotgeek> Madpilot: do you want Guia La Desktop + Ubuntu or just Guia La Desktop
[07:08] <Madpilot> the "Ubuntu 6.06" text isn't going to change - we just need that 2nd line "Desktop Guide"
[07:09] <robotgeek> okay, i am not seeing what you are seeing. which translation are you loking at?
[07:10] <Madpilot> I'm not, actually. Just looking at the cover itself.
[07:11] <Madpilot> Currently we've got three lines of text on it: "Ubuntu 6.06", "Desktop Guide", and "Ubuntu Documentation Project" - but only the 2nd & 3rd need translations
[07:12] <robotgeek> i am not sure where Ubuntu Documentation Project is translated
[07:12] <Madpilot> neither am I :(
[07:12] <robotgeek> however, there is some more useful information in the omf file
[07:13] <robotgeek> http://rafb.net/paste/results/Ga2Pgb64.html is without that error, still does nothing more useful
[07:14] <Madpilot> actually, it looks like we use "...Documentation Team" rather than "...Project" in the guides
[07:16] <robotgeek> Madpilot: stroke of luck, the omf files have translated names :)
[07:17] <Madpilot> robotgeek, can you grab the <creator> tag stuff from the omf, and then remove the email address & extra stuff to supply the trans. of "Ubuntu Documentation Team"?
[07:18] <Madpilot> actually, it's "...Project" in the omf files - go figure
[07:18] <robotgeek> yeah, that should be simple
[07:19] <Madpilot> recommend a good basic intro to programming book? I *almost* grok this stuff, and wish I did... ;)
[07:20] <robotgeek> Madpilot: this is all straight outta dive into python
[07:20] <robotgeek> xml processing chapter :)
[07:22] <Madpilot> cool, I apt-got that a while ago, might actually read it :)
[07:28] <robotgeek> almost done, fighting some ascii issues :)
[07:29] <Madpilot> sweet
[07:35] <robotgeek> Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/ZYzKcv85.html
[07:37] <jsgotangco> hmm i feel so hot inside of me i had too much salsa :/
[07:38] <robotgeek> Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/5nu4uv52.html sorry
[07:39] <rob> hi guys
[07:39] <robotgeek> hey rob 
[07:39] <rob> the lulu thing is exciting, and I haven't done all that much lately on the guides :)
[07:40] <robotgeek> i havent done anything lately too
[07:40] <Madpilot> robotgeek, got an error this time: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13113
[07:40] <rob> I've stated throwing a few ideas and some code together for the online docbook editor I was talking about a little while ago
[07:41] <robotgeek> Madpilot: did you get it from the second link?
[07:41] <Madpilot> yes
[07:42] <robotgeek> cause it works for me, can you paste it as text, save it and run it?
[07:42] <Madpilot> sure, just a sec
[07:43] <robotgeek> rob: what you doing that in?
[07:43] <rob> robotgeek, python
[07:45] <Madpilot> robotgeek, never mind, it worked the 2nd time - I might have been using the wrong pastebin's content
[07:45] <robotgeek> rob: cool
[07:45] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i'm trying to get rid of the hardcoding, moment
[07:45] <rob> in a few weeks time (depending on my spare time) I'll hopefully have something to show everyone
[07:46] <LaserJock> rob: cool, look forward to it
[07:46] <jsgotangco> rob: make sure its not in 3 parts
[07:46] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:46] <jsgotangco> kidding
[07:46] <LaserJock> lol
[07:46] <rob> hehe
[07:46] <LaserJock> and make sure you never really get to the third part
[07:46] <jsgotangco> haha
[07:46] <rob> I plan on showing the code :)
[07:46] <LaserJock> but talk alot about the third part, even though you never really ever get there
[07:47] <jsgotangco> then at the end decide its just a waste of time
[07:47] <rob> lil
[07:47] <rob> err
[07:47] <rob> lol
[07:47] <LaserJock> argh, that guy is quite interesting
[07:47] <LaserJock> I kept thinking, "You dope, you think I don't think about the user when I write"
[07:48] <rob> I don't know about 'interesting', defiantly rude though
[07:48] <LaserJock> like it is a novel concept to try to write for users
[07:48] <robotgeek> Madpilot: do you also want to me to get rid of the brackets too? ( blah )
[07:48] <Madpilot> robotgeek, yes
[07:49] <Madpilot> LaserJock, my target audience is me, circa June 2005, when I'd had Ubuntu on this box about a week :P
[07:57] <LaserJock> I should just write for sabdfl because he can sponsor me to the dev conference ;-)
[07:57] <robotgeek> Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/JKdPCD88.html
[07:57] <LaserJock> who cares about the users. Obviously we don't  (in the eyes of some apparently)
[07:58] <jsgotangco> lol
[07:58] <robotgeek> we dont' care about users since they don't pay us. there, i said it
[07:58] <jsgotangco> yeah users are basically PEBKAC
[07:59] <Madpilot> robotgeek, works nicely (the script, that is) ;)
[07:59] <mgalvin> *cough*we are apparently chimps in a psychological experiment where dave pokes us to see if he can annoy us*cough*
[07:59] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i just hacked something together, i am guessing i'll come up with something totally different
[08:00] <robotgeek> Madpilot: anything else you need?
[08:00] <manicka> can I quote you on that robotgeek?
[08:00] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:00] <LaserJock> mgalvin: hehe, that must be it
[08:00] <Madpilot> mgalvin, it's working :P
[08:00] <manicka> I pick the best times to drop in...
[08:01] <manicka> :)
[08:01] <Madpilot> robotgeek, it's good so far - now we need to get the translated text into the SVGs and get Inkscape to output new PNGs
[08:01] <robotgeek> Madpilot: you need something for the title also, right?
[08:02] <Madpilot> robotgeek, yes, we need the title string too
[08:03] <Madpilot> robotgeek, <title> in the omf file
[08:05] <robotgeek> Madpilot: done
[08:05] <Madpilot> nice
[08:06] <robotgeek> http://rafb.net/paste/results/VR6fHp60.html
[08:09] <robotgeek> that code is of a hackish quality, but it works 
[08:09] <Madpilot> yes, works here
[08:10] <robotgeek> cool, let's move to next step then
[08:11] <Madpilot> robotgeek, http://www.warbard.ca/temp/Ubuntu_SVG/  <-- SVG files for the cover images
[08:14] <Madpilot> robotgeek, We're interested in the text in the 2nd & 3rd sets of <tspan> tags in the SVGs
[08:15] <jsgotangco> what are you guys doing?
[08:16] <Madpilot> jsgotangco, translations on the cover images
[08:16] <jsgotangco> for lulu?
[08:16] <Madpilot> jsgotangco, getting the translated strings from our XML, editing the SVG files, then creating PNGs for Lulu
[08:19] <robotgeek> Madpilot: hmm, i'm having difficult seeing this without folding, one moment
[08:28] <robotgeek> Madpilot: okay, found it. obviously, this will be different in other documents?
[08:29] <Madpilot> robotgeek, provided there's only ever three text areas, the two we care about should always be 2nd & 3rd (unless someone totally rebuilds the SVGs, then all bets are off...)
[08:30] <robotgeek> kk, then we can hardcode without worry (i hope)
[08:30] <mgalvin> night all
[08:30] <Madpilot> for now, anyway
[08:30] <jsgotangco> hey the ubuntu book is now in amazon
[08:31] <Madpilot> the official one? Yeah, it's been there a few weeks at least
[08:31] <jsgotangco> it has corey and jonathan at the front
[08:31] <jsgotangco> i just saw it today
[08:35] <robitaille> wow...a search for ubuntu in amazon turns out a few to-be-published books I didn't know about 
[08:38] <jsgotangco> ubuntu unleashed...
[08:38] <robitaille> not surprising considering the apparent popularity of the distro.
[08:39] <robitaille> But now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever bought a book about Linux.
[08:39] <LaserJock> I have a Red Hat 7.2 book
[08:39] <jsgotangco> i have a core linux book
[08:40] <robitaille> I got a couple of Unix book way when, but that's about it for purchases
[08:40] <robitaille> s/way when/way back when
[08:40] <jsgotangco> i have a nutshell book though which is very very useful
[08:40] <LaserJock> I have a little emacs booklet
[08:41] <LaserJock> I don't read it much since I mostly use vim now
[08:41] <jsgotangco> i only use emacs for emacs-wiki and planner-el
[08:42] <robitaille> I use vi most of the time
[08:42] <LaserJock> heh
[08:42] <robitaille> she is the emacs type
[08:42] <LaserJock> I'd get into it with my advisor if he ever found out I was using vim
[08:42] <robitaille> and we are still married after all these years :)
[08:43] <robotgeek> Madpilot: dang it, the Kubuntu svn is slightly different
[08:43] <robotgeek> i'll come up with some code tommorow, too sleepy now
[08:44] <Madpilot> robotgeek, hmm, tomorrow I'll bash at the SVG, see if we can't get better layout to make the script easier to use...
[08:44] <robotgeek> Madpilot: http://rafb.net/paste/results/2LQWPj81.html is what i hve till now
[08:44] <robotgeek> i'll try to get the element names using tagnames, it should be easier that way
[08:45] <robotgeek> and of course, writing it and renaming the damn thing
[08:46] <Madpilot> robotgeek, nice work
[08:46] <robotgeek> Madpilot: don't really bother with the svg, the way i am doing it is not right 
[08:46] <Madpilot> robotgeek, OK, I'll leave it
[08:47] <robotgeek> cool, cya tommoro
[08:47] <Madpilot> night
[09:09] <LaserJock> robotgeek: I'm interested in Python as well. I was thinking for edgy of making some scripts that would be useful for the doc team
[09:10] <rob> LaserJock, what like?
[09:12] <LaserJock> xml validator, xml stripper (to plain text) I don't know, I'll have to think of something :-)
[09:13] <rob> well, as part of my online editor I'm planning on giving the ability to download in plain text
[09:13] <rob> if you do I might steal it from you :)
[09:13] <LaserJock> I got a copy of Python Cookbook not to long ago and it was giving me ideas
[09:13] <Madpilot> we've got a validator already, seems to work fairly well - you could work with Matt East on our convert-to-PDF stuff (not sure which tools he's using for that, actually)
[09:13] <jsgotangco> make it something that'll give a hotdog sandwhich as output
[09:14] <LaserJock> food on the brain?
[09:14] <rob> there are actually some nice conversion tools available, see xmlto
[09:14] <rob> converts to all kinds of things (pdf, text, latex etc)
[09:15] <LaserJock> yeah, I was just thinking maybe we need to pull some things together so new people can just run a script or something
[09:15] <LaserJock> I don't know, I'll have to look into it more
[09:16] <jsgotangco> i gotta go
[09:17] <jsgotangco> see ya
[11:46] <mdke> morning
[12:17] <klepas> moin
[12:17] <mdke> hi klepas 
[12:29] <mdke> Laser_away: fop can do xml to plain text
[12:56] <jsgotangco> hey
[09:37] <kbrooks> hi :-)
[09:37] <LaserJock> hi kbrooks 
[09:38] <LaserJock> mdke: around?
[09:38] <kbrooks> LaserJock: whats up?
[09:39] <LaserJock> kbrooks: oh, I've always got things to do :-)
[09:39] <LaserJock> how about yourself
[09:39] <kbrooks> LaserJock: nothing much. 
[09:47] <LaserJock> mdke: nevermind, I'll talk to you later
[10:43] <highvoltage> 0/win 11
[11:09] <Burgundavia> mdke: your blog says Ubuntu linux, not Ubuntu, a linux based operating system
[11:09] <Burgundavia> mdke: do I have to "standard name email" you? ;)
[11:12] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: seems like "Ubuntu Linux" is kind of official, hey :/
[11:12] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: it is not Ubuntu Linux
[11:12] <Burgundavia> it is Ubuntu
[11:12] <Burgundavia> we were Ubuntu Linux in the warty days
[11:12] <highvoltage> ok, I wasn't quite aware of that, but I'm happy to learn this :)
[11:13] <highvoltage> Ubuntu is much better than Ubuntu Linux. If it were Ubuntu Linux i would expect it to be Ubuntu GNU/Linux
[11:13] <Burgundavia> hence why just Ubuntu
[11:14] <Burgundavia> it also establishes us as a brand seperate from Linux
[11:15] <highvoltage> also good for when the HURD hits 1.0 :)
[11:16] <Burgundavia> in 2300?
[11:19] <highvoltage> well, it's good to plan ahead ;)
[11:23] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: hurd 1.0 is a little excessive, n'cest pa?
[11:23] <highvoltage> ok, let's aim for hurd 0.4 then.
[11:38] <mdke> Burgundavia: my new blog doesn't say it, I can't be bothered to change the old one.
[11:45] <Burgundavia> mdke: ah, ok