[12:07] <jordi> Kamion: oh ok
[12:11] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: I installed breezy at a friend's recently. He has two harddisks, and it put grub in the wrong mbr. Switching the hdd order in bios brought grub forth, correctly detecting all OS's
[12:12] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: would that be solvable?
[12:18] <infinity> Kamion: How comfortable do you feel, on a scale of 1 to 100, with granting UVF exceptions for apache2?
[12:24] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: not easily
[12:24] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: all such grub problems suck
[12:24] <Kamion> infinity: is "off to bed now, sorry" on that scale? :)
[12:27] <infinity> Kamion: No, damnit. :)
[12:27] <infinity> Kamion: Say "hi" to your pillow for me.
[12:27] <Kamion> infinity: probably about 60, though
[12:28] <Kamion> night folks, flying visit while dealing with my huge pile of bugmal
[12:28] <Kamion> bugmail
[12:28] <infinity> mdz: Around?
[12:40] <mdz> infinity: yes
[12:46] <infinity> mdz: Care to look at the apache2 changelog and let me convince you to give me a UVF exception?
[12:46] <infinity> mdz: http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/CHANGES_2.0  (We're at 2.0.55 ... .56/.57/.58 were all rolled into one release, hence skipping two)
[12:47] <infinity> Points to note:  They've fixed some bugs I've had on my plate for a while (yay), they didn't break module ABI (yay again), and despite the 3 version bumps, it doesn't look that scary to me.
[12:52] <thom> the two skipped versions were mostly just minor problems found too late to re-roll, if memory serves
[12:55] <thom> (56->57 was rerolled to pick up a fix for expect headers, 57->58 was because 57 missed a version number bump in a header)
[01:49] <mdz> infinity: looks fine
[01:52] <infinity> mdz: Danke.
[02:12] <bddebian> Howdy peoples
[02:13] <infinity> mdz: Similar question, but for MySQL 5.0.21... 5.0.20 contained a mess of useful bugfixes and one accidental backward-compat breakage, 5.0.20a fixed the backward-compat issue, and 5.0.21 includes more bugfixes, and two security fixes.
[02:13] <infinity> mdz: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/news-5-0-x.html for full changelogs.
[02:13] <infinity> mdz: (Yes, I know it says 5.0.21 is "not yet released", but the docs seem to be lagging the tarballs. :)
[02:14] <mdz> infinity: is that the backward-compatibility bug we rebuilt everything to fix?
[02:14] <mdz> renamed the library and &, even
[02:14] <infinity> mdz: No, no.  They just broken the CLI usage for the client app by accident.
[02:14] <infinity> (option parsing)
[02:14] <infinity> The library change is sticking. :)
[02:15] <mdz> oh
[02:15] <infinity> s/broken/broke/
[02:15] <infinity> The library change wasn't a backward-compat issue from their POV, only from ours.
[02:16] <infinity> (since they went from unversioned symbols to versioned symbols, they were fine, we just got broken by going from one version tag to another)
[02:17] <zul> heylo
[02:30] <mdz> infinity: mysql 5.0.21 looks good
[02:34] <dAndy_> Kamion: re #38111 you said "try tomorrow's daily build and let me know if it still
[02:34] <dAndy_> doesn't work" ... there has been no new mini.iso since April 23
[04:35] <ajmitch> infinity: if you're around, could you check if python2.3-xml got into the NEW queue? I didn't get any mail about it
[05:08] <infinity> ajmitch: If it were NEW, you'd have mail about it.
[05:08] <infinity> ajmitch: It's failed (should be rejected, but this is a longstanding LP bug) due to this:
[05:08] <infinity>  python2.3-xml (0.8.4-1ubuntu4) unstable; urgency=low
[05:11] <ajmitch> of course, stupid me
[05:38] <nictuku> anyone here who takes care of mozilla-thunderbird?
[05:40] <nictuku> update-mozilla-thunderbird-chrome seems to be buggy
[05:40] <nictuku> but I'm not sure
[05:40] <nictuku> :-P
[05:41] <infinity> Don't use it.  It'll be removed in the next upload.
[05:41] <infinity> (It's not buggy, so much as completely obsolete)
[05:43] <nictuku> hmm
[05:44] <nictuku> there are packages in universe that currently use that, though.
[05:45] <nictuku> infinity, what should these packages use now?
[05:46] <nictuku> I'm trying to update enigmail-locales
[05:47] <infinity> Nothing, ideally.  They should just install their chrome and let it be.
[05:47] <infinity> Check enigmail itself, to see what it does.
[05:47] <nictuku> oh I could check what mozilla-thunderbird-typeaheadfind does
[06:17] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: I disagree about the "find -name \*" doesn't match names which are invalid utf8 when you're in an utf-8 locale not being a bug, btw.
[06:18] <sfllaw> Mithrandir: Well, how do you generalise this?
[06:18] <sfllaw> If it fails to match, do you fall back on LANG=C?
[06:18] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: I didn't say it was easy to fix. :-)
[06:18] <sfllaw> In which case, you'll get false positives.
[06:19] <sfllaw> Since there's no way to identify which encoding a string is in, you can only assume it's the default encoding.
[06:19] <Mithrandir> if your glob string only includes ASCII, that'd be sensible.
[06:19] <sfllaw> If you glob string only includes ASCII, UTF-8 would match it.
[06:19] <sfllaw> But then KOI8 probably won't.
[06:19] <sfllaw> It's really quite lossy.
[06:20] <Mithrandir> well, I find it hard to argue that "*" doesn't match anything because it's not valid in your current encoding.
[06:20] <Mithrandir> that is, the string is not valid
[06:20] <sfllaw> Wait a second, no.
[06:20] <sfllaw> The bug is "*~"
[06:21] <sfllaw> And that's the problem.
[06:21] <sfllaw> Once you encounter an invalid character in your encoding, you can't tell whether there's an ~ at the end of it!
[06:21] <sfllaw> If he ran "*", it's quite likely that it would match anyway.
[06:22] <sfllaw> I'd expect "*" to match.
[06:22] <sfllaw> Or even "foo*" to match.
[06:22] <sfllaw> But you can't expect "*~" to have a hope of winning.
[06:23] <Mithrandir> it's I who filed the bug.
[06:24] <sfllaw> Did I read the bug wrong?
[06:24] <sfllaw> Which number is it?
[06:25] <Mithrandir> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/findutils/+bug/31232
[06:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31232 in findutils "find -name \*~ doesn't find files which have names which are not valid in the current locale" [Normal,Rejected]  
[06:25] <Mithrandir> and -name \* doesn't match either
[06:26] <sfllaw> Well, OK.
[06:26] <Mithrandir> ditto for -regex .\* ; no match.
[06:27] <Mithrandir> it might be that we're way into undefined behaviour territory here, though.
[06:28] <sfllaw> Yeah.
[06:28] <sfllaw> Find won't even match against the invalid filename itself.
[06:29] <Mithrandir> find2perl -name \* | perl and find2perl -name \*~ | perl both works
[06:31] <sfllaw> I think, at the very best, that this is a wishlist bug.
[06:31] <sfllaw> It could be argued to work either way.
[06:32] <nictuku> if a chrome is to be installed in more than one application - say, mozilla and mozilla-thunderbird, after copying it to /usr/lib/mozilla/chrome, how do I "register" it? (I'd be happy if you pointed to a sample application)
[06:34] <infinity> nictuku: Err, this is for enigmail?
[06:34] <nictuku> infinity, yes..
[06:34] <nictuku> should I just leave it?
[06:35] <nictuku> it's so fun :-)
[06:35] <infinity> nictuku: enigmail isn't even in the same version for mozilla and thunderbird, I'd recommend against trying to install "shared chrome" for it.
[06:36] <nictuku> infinity, ok, but then the change would be too big for a freeze-time, right?
[06:38] <nictuku> I could provide enigmail-locale-YY-0.94.. but it wouldn't be pretty I think
[06:57] <nictuku> infinity, is this old too? http://web.glandium.org/debian/packages/mozilla-firefox/New_scheme_for_extensions/20041114  if yes, do you know of an updated reference?
[07:06] <fabbione> Kamion: unfortunatly not.. not when i did test them in breezy
[07:22] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[07:24] <pitti> Good morning
[07:26] <jdub> mdz: ping
[07:26] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[07:26] <pitti> hi ajmitch 
[07:30] <sladen> crazy time of day
[08:51] <sivang> morning everybody
[08:51] <pitti> hey sivang 
[08:52] <sivang> pitti: how's it going?
[08:52] <pitti> sivang: great, had some nice holidays; and you?
[08:53] <infinity> Oh man, it's UVF exception day all 'round for everything I maintain.
[08:53] <sivang> pitti: been working yesterday, but managed to find out that laptop-mode-tools was causing some troubles for my ThinkPad, purged it and things are a bit better now :)
[08:53] <infinity> Ngh.
[08:54] <sivang> infinity: mind kicking upbackup's binaries out of NEW :-) (I owe you a beer if I get to meet you in Paris)
[08:54] <sivang> ?
[08:54] <infinity> We've already met, and no beer was provided then. :P
[08:55] <sivang> infinity: my bad, noted. Will try to make it better next time! (I just need to people to remind me I've promised them such, and I will deliver ;-) I keep forgetting stuff all time long..
[08:55] <sivang> I also owe some other folks some stuff, /me makes a list
[08:56] <infinity> You live in .il, yes?
[08:56] <infinity> You can probably repay me in olives or olive oil or other such olive-related produce.
[08:56] <sivang> indeed.
[08:57] <sivang> infinity: you name it, I'll bring it :-)
[08:58] <sivang> infinity: there are also many related art and religious artficats that can be brought from here, if you're interested for you or for your relatives whatever, let me know and I'll check what I can do.
[08:59] <infinity> I suspect any "arifacts" I'd want wouldn't be allowed to leave the country... Or the glass cases in which they reside. :)
[09:08] <sivang> infinity: acutally IIRC they're are allowed to leave the country, and they are even sold in special bottles :-)
[09:19] <infinity> sivang: Why so many restrictive versioned dependencies?
[09:25] <infinity> sivang: I'm willing to believe you may need a specific pygtk version, but is the versioned dependency on dar and hal required?  And is a dependency on coreutils required at all (hint: It's an essential package, you don't need to depend on it, and I can see any reason why you'd need a tight versioned dep on such a recent version)
[09:26] <infinity> sivang: Same for gksu... (why the seemingly arbitrary version?)
[09:39] <sivang> infinity: noted, hal is required because only starting from this version of HAL there's support for cdrom volume capacity detection
[09:40] <sivang> infinity: coreutils - note, I just recalled about the section in the policy that states you need not depend on essential packages ;-)
[09:41] <janimo> mvo: hi, can you include the fix to bug 40655 in the next upload of update-manager? thanks
[09:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40655 in update-manager "Software Properties Depends on Gnome" [Normal,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40655
[09:42] <mvo> janimo: I was sure I fixed it with my latest upload, let me re-check
[09:45] <mvo> janimo: the latest upload should fix this, can you please check if you have the latest version?
[09:46] <janimo> mvo, ok, I thought I had the latest (before the weekend), and the bug was not touched :).
[09:46] <Kamion> dAndy_: oh, version of the mini.iso doesn't particularly matter, just use it with the current archive
[09:46] <mvo> janimo: IIRC I uploaded at friday
[09:47] <sivang> infinity: I will also remove the versioned dependency from dar.
[09:48] <infinity> sivang: For the sake of my own pedantry, can you upload a new version that fixed the dependencies?  (remove unnecessary versions, remove the coreutils dep completely, etc)?
[09:48] <infinity> sivang: Then I'll give that one last look and NEW it, if I want olive oil.
[09:48] <janimo> mvo, indeed there's a new one and has the fix.thanks
[09:49] <infinity> sivang: Also, is there any reason to call it "Ubuntu Personal Backup System"?  What if you want to upload it to Debian some day? :)
[09:49] <infinity> sivang: Perhaps s/Ubuntu/Universal/ or Unparallelled, or Uberspiffy, or whatveer. :)
[09:50] <infinity> sivang: Generally, including an OS brand in your software is silly.  (see all the "Linux" software that compiles and runs fine on other UNIXes, for instance)
[09:50] <sivang> infinity: yes, this change is in place :) I will choose one of those and update, then upload, it's gonna take a while so I'll ping you again when a new source with all of the above changes will be updated.
[09:51] <sivang> infinity: and btw, I would have gotten you olive oil anyways if you wanted, I wasn't really conditioning the two :-)
[09:51] <sivang> infinity: (also, about the things that come in glass containers, let me know and I'll check)
[09:52] <infinity> You're planning on robbing a museum for me?  How sweet. :)
[09:52] <sivang> ah, I didn't know you were planning a specific set of those :) 
[10:02] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: hi. does xffm not use the xfce.mk CDBS class?
[10:03] <janimo> if it did there would be no need to explicitely tell it about dh_iconcache
[10:04] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, I didn't use it iirc
[10:04] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, confirmed, I didn't use it since it's not really Xfce related
[10:05] <janimo> xffm?
[10:05] <janimo> xfce file manager :)
[10:07] <Gloubiboulga> hmm, yep, is it really usable only with Xfce ?
[10:07] <janimo> well no but the xfce.mk class does not tie it to xfce in any way
[10:07] <Gloubiboulga> yep, I should have used it
[10:07] <janimo> it's just a shortcut for debhelper/autotools/dh_iconcache etc
[10:08] <janimo> most (all?) xfce package suse it now in ubuntu
[10:08] <janimo> if we convince debian to use xfce.mk then our package diffs may only be in the cdbs package instead of throughout the xfce packages themselves
[10:18] <dholbach> who can tell me the name of the kde package where the "this app has crashed" picture is in?
[10:19] <ajmitch> kdebase-bin, I suspect
[10:19] <ajmitch> assuming it's the image  /usr/share/apps/drkonqi/pics/konqi.png
[10:20] <janimo> dholbach, krash-katcher?
[10:22] <dholbach> ajmitch: that's the one
[10:22] <dholbach> janimo, ajmitch: thanks
[11:07] <mjg59> jdub: Yo
[11:08] <ogra> hmm, someone pinged me ?
[11:08] <ogra> (sadly its lost in my scrollback)
[11:11] <lifeless> ogra: a few days back I did, to say g-s-s looks good now
[11:12] <ogra> lifeless, ah, thanks :)
[11:12] <ogra> but i was online yesterday, so the ping must have been tonight or late evening yesterday 
[11:14] <ogra> ahh :) amaranth did his SoC application for the willow project :)
[11:14] <ogra> great 
[11:16] <seb128> what is willow?
[11:17] <neuralis> ajmitch: what would you like to work on?
[11:18] <ajmitch> neuralis: I thought it might give me a good chance to work on the selinux reference policy in debian or ubuntu 
[11:19] <ajmitch> either that or I'd come up with something, possibly related to those T2000s :)
[11:21] <ajmitch> too complex?
[11:22] <neuralis> yes.
[11:23] <ogra> seb128, http://www.digitallumber.com/software/willow/
[11:23] <seb128> k
[11:24] <ogra> seb128, its a content filtering proxy using bayesian filtering additionally to the common black/whitelists, its python and already comes with a web interface
[11:24] <ogra> aaaand it uses pam for all auth stuff
[11:24] <seb128> I'm not sure than standard Ubuntu users use a "content filtering proxy"
[11:24] <ogra> nope
[11:25] <ogra> but edubuntu users cry for it since before breezy
[11:26] <ogra> its forced by law in the us to have a content filter if you run IT stuff in schools ...
[11:26] <ogra> (with web access)
[11:28] <seb128> ah, k
[11:53] <Diziet> slomo: Ah, hello.  That ping was re 41800 ?  I see that bug report doesn't seem to have attached to it the file that was trying to be printed.
[11:54] <slomo> Diziet: err? i was talking about bug #40320 ;)
[11:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40320 in firefox "devhelp starts with an "empty" page area, which is not redrawn" [Unknown,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40320
[11:58] <Diziet> slomo: Oh :-).  Well, I saw my name around 41800 so I suppose I should leave a comment there ...
[11:59] <slomo> Diziet: anyway... could you include the patch for #40320 in your next firefox upload? it affects many packages and working fine for me since i added the comment ;)
[11:59] <Diziet> slomo: Oh, that.  That patch is in the upload I'm testing just as soon as I've caught up on my IRC pings ...
[11:59] <slomo> Diziet: oh even better :) and you already have the updated one that doesn't break chrome anymore?
[12:01] <Diziet> `updated fix' of 2006-04-26 04:07 from Mozilla 312998 is what I have.
[12:01] <Ubugtu> Mozilla bug 312998 in Embedding: GTK Widget "fix gtkmozembed's EmbedWindow::GetVisibility" [Major,Assigned]  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312998
[12:01] <slomo> yeah that one :)
[12:01] <slomo> perfect
[12:15] <ompaul> mdz, care to spend a minute or two on that mail about the bot? the web page reflects the bot, the plan is anyone can, however lets say I have an interest in it being right
[12:24] <dholbach> ompaul: I hope mdz is still lying in bed. :-)
[12:25] <ompaul> dholbach, there is that, I just noticed the tz on his mail now :-)
[12:25] <dholbach> :)
[12:35] <nomed> hi all
[12:37] <coz_> hello all I tried reporting a bug after talking about it here but recieved an error on the page is bug reporting closed/
[12:46] <sivang> wow nice, oracle released an update for their OracleXE packages into debian packages. it says there it's for Ubuntu as well :)
[12:50] <coz_> is error reportingclosed on launchpad
[01:25] <mjg59> Diziet: I'm still seeing broken fonts in Epiphany
[01:25] <mjg59> Is there anything you've done that ought to have changed that?
[01:25] <mjg59> (And would you like a bug filed if there isn't one already?)
[01:26] <Diziet> mjg59: Broken as in unwanted Nimbus, or something else ?
[01:26] <mjg59> Unwanted Nimbus
[01:27] <mjg59> At least, I think so - I'm still dire at distinguishing fonts
[01:27] <Diziet> Tricky, isn't it.
[01:27] <Diziet> I suppose I'd better try to do something about it.  Can you file a bug quoting the test URL you're using ?
[01:27] <mjg59> But it's got the colour blurring that I associate with Nimbus
[01:27] <mjg59> Ok
[01:27] <Diziet> Against firefox.
[01:29] <mjg59> Oops. Sorry, filed it against epiphany-browser
[01:29] <mjg59> I'll reassign now
[01:30] <Diziet> mjg59: Sure.  Can you tell me the number so I can write it on my list ?
[01:30] <Mithrandir> mjg59: try using whatthefont to identify it; http://desktoppub.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=desktoppub&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myfonts.com%2FWhatTheFont%2F ?
[01:31] <Mithrandir> http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/ , rather
[01:32] <nomed> Mithrandir,there is a wishlist bug in casper .. the bazaar repo link is included
[01:32] <nomed> i guess you're busy .. just ping me when yu'll have the time to take a look and give me some feedbacks
[01:33] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: uploaded xfburn to NEW
[01:33] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, yep, I've received the mail, thanks :)
[01:33] <nomed> hi janimo Gloubiboulga 
[01:34] <janimo> hi nomed
[01:34] <Gloubiboulga> hey nomed 
[01:37] <mjg59> Diziet: 42559
[01:38] <Diziet> Ta.
[01:42] <doko> good afternoon
[01:43] <Mithrandir> nomed: I'm looking at it now
[01:48] <fabbione> pitti: ping?
[01:49] <pitti> hey fabbione 
[01:49] <Mithrandir> nomed: pong me when you're around; there are some things which need to be fixed before I want to merge it.
[01:50] <nomed> Mithrandir, pong ..
[01:50] <Mithrandir> nomed: you install stuff to /usr/share/doc/initramfs-tools/examples; that's wrong, don't do that.
[01:50] <Kamion> wurgh, I've got read() returning ERESTARTSYS here
[01:51] <Kamion> I thought that wasn't meant to be seen by userspace?
[01:51] <zul> hey
[01:51] <nomed> Mithrandir, i supposed .. that's why i tried to split the changes in more revs
[01:51] <nomed> Mithrandir, where can i install that example file .. supposing it's needed ?
[01:51] <sonnenschein> why
[01:52] <Mithrandir> if anywhere; /usr/share/doc/casper
[01:52] <nomed> ok
[01:52] <Mithrandir> nomed: and I don't see the point of the blacklist functionality, as I said.  Have you come up with a use case for it?
[01:52] <sonnenschein> why
[01:53] <nomed> Mithrandir, nothing new if you do not think performance can be improved in that way :)
[01:53] <nomed> Mithrandir, i've even seen the TODO list ..
[01:54] <sonnenschein> why
[01:54] <Mithrandir> nomed: I think shaving half a second off the boot time when we're at several minutes is pointless.
[01:54] <Mithrandir> nomed: the todo list shouldn't be there, it's absolutely not current.
[01:54] <sonnenschein> why
[01:55] <nomed> what's that why ? o0
[01:55] <Mithrandir> sonnenschein: if you have something sensible to say, please say so, else be quiet or leave the channel
[01:55] <Kamion> Would it even shave off half a second? I'd expect that you'd spend longer checking the blacklist for every script than you would just running the scripts and letting the occasional one of them decide to do nothing.
[01:55] <sonnenschein> occasional one
[01:55] <nomed> Kamion, not really
[01:56] <nomed> it just doesn't add the unwanted scripts to initlist ..
[01:56] <sonnenschein> initlist
[01:56] <nomed> while generating it
[01:56] <sonnenschein> generating
[01:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: unsure, it for sure won't cut big chunks out of the boot time and it's more complexity.
[01:56] <sonnenschein> complexity
[01:56] <Mithrandir> oh please, somebody kick sonnenschein
[01:56] <ogra> fabbione ?
[01:57] <fabbione> ogra: ?
[01:57] <ogra> ^^^^^
[01:57] <nomed> Mithrandir, i agree about complexity
[01:57] <sonnenschein> agree
[01:57] <nomed> and i even think for dapper is not needed
[01:57] <sonnenschein> dapper
[01:57] <ogra> fabbione, see Mithrandir 
[01:57] <fabbione> ogra: i am not reading here.. what does need my attention?
[01:57] <Mithrandir> fabbione: care to kick sonnenschein, he appears to be a bot which is just annoying.
[01:57] <fabbione> ok
[01:57] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[01:57] <ogra> thanks
[01:58] <sonnenschein> thanks
[01:58] <nomed> but in case derivatives wouldn't use some scripts a-priori that could be a solution
[01:58] <Mithrandir> nomed: it looks like a solution in search of a problem. :-P
[01:59] <nomed> ehehe
[01:59] <nomed> Mithrandir, i do not know how casper will be in 30 days :)
[01:59] <nomed> i know that with patch i'll be sure i can use casper upstreamer source :)
[02:00] <Mithrandir> nomed: also, why do you redefine run_scripts in debian/casper.initramfs?
[02:00] <nomed> Mithrandir, to not patch initramfs-tools just for casper
[02:01] <nomed> i guess that's where a blacklist is needed ..
[02:01] <Mithrandir> can you do a measurement and see how much you save with those two it seems you want to disable?
[02:02] <Kamion> hmm, maybe strace is lying slightly about the ERESTARTSYS, hard to tell
[02:02] <nomed> Mithrandir, i'll do that .. but i don't know when i'll have the time 
[02:06] <ogra> ssam, around ?
[02:07] <ssam> ogra, hi
[02:07] <ogra> hey
[02:07] <ogra> i saw you had a suggestion for y python teaching IDE ?
[02:07] <ssam> yes
[02:07] <ogra> did you think about basing it on pygame ? 
[02:08] <ogra> i think it has many of the functions you describe in the spec suggestion
[02:08] <ssam> i dont think i could do it personally, more of an idea i have had in my head, and was throwing it out for a better programmer to pick up
[02:08] <ogra> ah
[02:09] <ssam> i know a bit of python, but i have not dont much gui programming
[02:09] <ogra> i wont mentor it as SoC anyway, somebody else would have to step up (i already have one mentorship and last SoC showed me that its bad to do two)
[02:23] <sivang> ssam: what are you looking a mentor for?
[02:24] <pitti> Diziet: would you have time to look at gs-esp 8.15.2? http://www.cups.org/articles.php?L378   you seem to know the code a bit and might be able to judge if we should get it for dapper
[02:24] <ogra> sivang, see above, he doesnt look for a mentor personally, he created a spec and someone added it to the edubuntu SoC project list
[02:24] <sivang> ogra: k, thanks
[02:25] <ogra> sivang, https://launchpad.net/disthttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/simple-prog-appros/ubuntu/+spec/simple-prog-app
[02:26] <Kamion> grr, python fileobj.readline() loses input data if it gets EINTR on a read() part-way through
[02:27] <sivang> Kamion: all of it? or just some of it?
[02:27] <Kamion> sivang: everything it's read so far, as far as I can tell
[02:28] <Kamion> unless I'm on crack, which is possible. This is a messy bug.
[02:29] <crimsun> pitti: would you look at bug #41367 when you have time, please?
[02:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41367 in alsa-lib "dmix consumes 100% CPU with 32-bit userspace on 64-bit kernel" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41367
[02:33] <ssam> sivang, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/simple-prog-app, but i dont think i'd be able to be the student
[02:35] <pitti> crimsun: I eyeballed the patch, looks good; great work!
[02:35] <pitti> crimsun: the rbuf change seems consistent
[02:36] <crimsun> pitti: thanks for your time
[02:36] <pitti> crimsun: can you upload yourself or do you need a sponsor?
[02:37] <crimsun> pitti: would need a sponsor, please
[02:37] <pitti> crimsun: alright, I'll upload then. thank you!
[02:37] <janimo> infinity: if there was a need to do a mass build of all xfce apps is that you who needs to be pinged?
[02:37] <janimo> not the case right now, but so I know if it is
[02:38] <sivang> ssam: and you think the language to go is python?
[02:38] <janimo> there may be a soname bump in one of the xfce libs
[02:38] <janimo> crimsun: do you think we can have something better than xfmedia as default in xubuntu?
[02:38] <janimo> considering the dependency restrictions
[02:39] <ssam> sivang, i think it needs to be a simple to learn language, that can also be used of more complex things once its learned. python fits that, and is well supported by ubuntu
[02:40] <crimsun> janimo: hmm, that's difficult given the xine restriction
[02:40] <janimo> crimsun, so xine-ui and gxine are not even as good as xfmedia?
[02:40] <pitti> janimo: you have to upload new versions anyway, so you can do it yourself
[02:40] <ssam> sivang, maybe the project could be writen in C, but i think it would be nice for it to be python all the way through
[02:41] <janimo> pitti, true. but in case I want to minimize the state of brokennes, or dep-waits
[02:41] <crimsun> janimo: gxine is good imo, but its playlist handling is cumbersome compared with xfmedia's
[02:41] <janimo> pitti, last time I hurried all uploads so they stuck in wait
[02:41] <janimo> but I guess I need to be more careful now :)
[02:41] <pitti> janimo: just start with the basic libraries, dep-wait handling is fairly good nowadays
[02:41] <crimsun> janimo: (would need to be promoted iirc)
[02:41] <janimo> crimsun: xfmedia hangs sometimes that's what I dont' like about it. even when playing audio CDs
[02:42] <janimo> pitti, ok, thanks
[02:42] <janimo> crimsun: true. and in that case xfmedia would go back to universe
[02:42] <janimo> gxine has some security history though
[02:42] <pitti> janimo: heh, I just checked :)
[02:45] <infinity> janimo: dep-wait handling is automatic, it only breaks if you screw up the versioned build-deps.  So don't screw up. :)
[02:46] <infinity> crimsun: Erm, my concern was with inconsistency outside the patched area.
[02:47] <infinity> crimsun: If rbuf has become an array, why is it not accessed in the new fashion after the else?
[02:47] <infinity> pitti: ^^^^
[02:47] <Mithrandir> nomed: I've merged your changes, except for the blacklist stuff and reformatted it a bit, so you might want to merge from me to resolve conflicts.
[02:47] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: merged from you too, thanks.
[02:48] <janimo> pitti, would you feel uncomfortable with xine-ui or gxine in main? I.e does it ring any bells :)
[02:48] <janimo> crimsun: gxine has the browser plugin too, that has been pointed out as a plus by some
[02:48] <janimo> but I remember now, I looked at gxine and it brings in some javascript libarry too
[02:48] <janimo> to script gxine using javascript via lirc
[02:48] <janimo> crazy dependencies
[02:48] <nomed> Mithrandir, ok
[02:48] <pitti> infinity: but it's only a 'very' local variable...
[02:48] <infinity> crimsun: As previously stated, if the fix/change is correct, then the surrounding unchanged code now looks wrong.
[02:49] <Riddell> pitti: do you have an opinion on re-enabling 3DES-EDE-CBC for ssl in Konqueror?
[02:49] <pitti> infinity: hm, I only see two then-blocks where this is changed, and these blocks contain both the rbuf declaration and its usage
[02:49] <StevenK> Awwww, mdz hasn't replied to my sync mail.
[02:49] <infinity> pitti: Oh, hrm.  I missed the sketchy s/rbuf/rbuf[4] /
[02:49] <pitti> Riddell: erm, not off-hand; is there something wrong with it? I'm not aware of any weaknesses in 3DES
[02:50] <infinity> pitti: No, I was referring to the } else { block right after the patched portions.  It's in the context of the diff.
[02:50] <pitti> infinity: you mean the else part needs the same fix?
[02:50] <infinity> pitti: But I suspect it's just som intentionally inconsistency designed to make people like me tear their hair out.
[02:51] <Riddell> pitti: the konqueror developers seem to think it is a weak cypher, discussion is at http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124684 but apparantly it breaks some bank's websites so I'm thinking about re-enabling it
[02:51] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 124684 in kssl "Konqueror is unable to access URL, other browsers work fine" [Normal,Closed: wontfix]  
[02:51] <infinity> pitti: Not knowing the real context, I have no idea, TBH.  But that was my concern.  Changing it in the if, but not the else, looked a bit suspicious.
[02:51] <pitti> crimsun: ^ agreed; any idea about that?
[02:52] <pitti> the current patch doesn't make it worse; at worst, it just doesn't fix everything
[02:52] <crimsun> pitti: takashi seemed to imply it was intentionally inconsistent
[02:52] <crimsun> pitti: I've been testing it for two days on an amd64 machine and haven't been able to reproduce the bug
[02:52] <infinity> If that was definitely commuicated sanely in both directions and he checked the else block, I'm cool with that.
[02:53] <infinity> And yes, half a fix is better than no fix anyway, even if it is "wrong, but working better". :)
[02:53] <infinity> It's entirely possible the else block never even triggers on your setup.
[02:54] <infinity> Or, rather, triggers but no-ops in a reasonably harmless way.
[02:54] <pitti> yes, the condition looks like it's pretty static
[02:54] <infinity> I know so little of alsa that I'll defer.  I was just dutifully doing patch review when asked. :)
[02:54] <pitti> crimsun: maybe you can ask him again? anyway, I'll upload the current fix now; even if it's incomplete, it fixes enough to be worth uploaded/tested at larger scale
[02:54] <crimsun> pitti: will do
[02:55] <pitti> infinity: thanks for your eagle-eye! I didn't pay attention to that bit
[02:55] <pitti> crimsun: uploaded
[02:55] <crimsun> pitti: thank you
[02:57] <crimsun> infinity: thank you, too
[03:03] <StevenK> pitti: Got a sec (or two)?
[03:04] <pitti> StevenK: go ahead :)
[03:05] <StevenK> pitti: I just need a hand with pkgstriptranslations, and ajmitch pointed the finger at you.
[03:06] <StevenK> pitti: I uploaded a new version of ldaptor to the archive, and it FTBFS due to pkgstriptranslations failing saying one of the PO/POT files is empty.
[03:08] <pitti> StevenK: indeed, it's supposed to catch these cases, since they usually point to a bug in the packaging
[03:08] <pitti> StevenK: we rely on up to date and valid POT files to not screw up rosetta
[03:09] <StevenK> pitti: I'm more to willing to admit it's a bug, but where do I start looking?
[03:09] <Kamion> (last time an empty POT file made it to the archive, it crashed the publisher)
[03:09] <StevenK> Kamion: Oh, whee.
[03:09] <pitti> StevenK: is the POT file regenerated automatically at build time?
[03:09] <StevenK> ... ldaptor has a POT file?
[03:10] <StevenK> I guess it does.
[03:10] <Kamion> obviously the publisher crash is a bug too
[03:11] <pitti> StevenK: if the file is just there and never touched, and ldaptr doesn't have po files, just rm it in debian/rules
[03:11] <pitti> StevenK: OTOH, if it does have translations, the fixing the pot file is the right way to do
[03:11] <Kamion> phew, bug 41921 fixed. check out that list of duplicates
[03:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41921 in debconf "strange EINTR in keyboard chooser" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41921
[03:12] <StevenK> -rw-r--r--  1 steven users    0 2005-02-22 05:22 ldaptor.pot
[03:12] <StevenK> Hrrrm
[03:13] <janimo> pitti, have an updated link to packages missing pot in main? want to check if latest uploads had effect
[03:13] <pitti> StevenK: does the orig.tar.gz ship that?
[03:13] <pitti> janimo: let me look
[03:13] <StevenK> pitti: Yup.
[03:13] <pitti> StevenK: are there any *.po files outside of debian/ ?
[03:14] <pitti> janimo: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13276 looks good
[03:14] <StevenK> pitti: They're all under po
[03:14] <pitti> janimo: only two xfce packages left
[03:14] <janimo> yup, I did not yet upload those. thanks
[03:14] <pitti> StevenK: okay, then it should somehow be possible to generate a pot file
[03:14] <pitti> StevenK: does the package use intltool?
[03:15] <StevenK> pitti: Nope.
[03:15] <Kamion> Riddell: is your ubiquity branch good to merge?
[03:16] <pitti> StevenK: anything in po/Makefile that looks like 'update-pot' or so?
[03:16] <Riddell> Kamion: yes, go for it
[03:17] <StevenK> There is no po/Makefile.
[03:17] <StevenK> pitti: I'm chrooting into Dapper to disect the bloody thing.
[03:24] <Kamion> Riddell: is it just me, or do you still have some code that refers to self.gparted_subp even though that's been renamed?
[03:24] <Kamion> e.g. in gparted_to_mountpoints
[03:26] <_ion> Bug #42397 is nasty. :-(
[03:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42397 in gdm "Can't register Xsession on dapper beta" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42397
[03:28] <Riddell> Kamion: hmm yes, let me change that and upload
[03:29] <janimo> Kamion, around when is next flight/beta due?
[03:29] <Kamion> Riddell: please don't upload yet
[03:30] <Kamion> janimo: dunno yet, kinda depends on how ubiquity bugs are going
[03:30] <Kamion> Riddell: (if you mean a package upload)
[03:30] <Riddell> Kamion: done. upload to my bzr repository I ment
[03:30] <Kamion> ah, right, thanks :)
[03:31] <janimo> Kamion, can it happen with less than 2 days notice though?
[03:31] <Kamion> janimo: I'd been thinking about doing Flight 7 this Thursday, but I suspect that doesn't leave enough time for development, so probably early next week
[03:31] <janimo> ok
[03:32] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I can handle F7 unless you want to.
[03:32] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks, merged/pushed
[03:33] <ssam> ogra, sivang simple-prog-app spec/soc, i think i could give it a go. i am sure i could learn what i needed
[03:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: might be a good plan
[03:42] <Diziet> pitti: gs-esp 8.15.2.  Ooo.  I'll take a look, but my initial feeling is positive.
[03:43] <pitti> Diziet: mine, too, but it has some new features according to the changelog; it should get along better with our cups, though
[03:45] <Diziet> There are a couple of bugs in there that I recognise from my triage.
[03:46] <Diziet> Also, apparently, some security fixes.
[03:48] <Diziet> I'll download it and diff it and see what it's like.
[03:49] <pitti> Diziet: thanks
[04:01] <Keybuk> Kamion: are syncs working yet, do you know?
[04:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: dunno - was due for today's rollout, but I didn't see any noise about that
[04:02] <_ion> In addition to not being able to start gnome, that bug causes the effective gid to be 0 (root).
[04:02] <bddebian> Morning people
[04:02] <_ion> Good evening.
[04:03] <bddebian> Oh, yeah, I gotta do that TimeOfDay() thing don't I :)
[04:09] <Kamion> RAID disks don't show up in /dev/mapper/, do they?
[04:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: they don't.
[04:11] <Kamion> hmm, maybe just blacklist /dev/mapper/*-*, anything else could be dmraid
[04:11] <nomed> ogra, did u write down anything for that "branding gui tool" ?
[04:11] <nomed> i can't find specs anywhere ..
[04:11] <ogra> nomed, not yet, its for eft and i dont have the time now to write another spec
[04:12] <ogra> we'll likely discuss it at the conference in june
[04:12] <nomed> ok thanks .. i'll wait
[04:13] <ogra> feel free to open a wikipage and add suggestions there :)
[04:14] <nomed> ehehe .. same problem as you .. but i'll do that if possible
[04:15] <ogra> basic idea is that you make all changes to the artwork etc and can create a -artwork package with one click from the current setup
[04:16] <ogra> which you then can add to a customized CD
[04:17] <nomed> ogra, yep i got it :)
[04:17] <nomed> i was thinking to additional tools as ..
[04:18] <nomed> generate or port an icon-theme reading legacy xml file from icon naming
[04:18] <bddebian> elmo: ping?
[04:18] <nomed> or modify gfxboot colors
[04:18] <ogra> that'll get a bit tricky 
[04:18] <nomed> i know
[04:18] <ogra> gfxbot isnt fun according to Kamion's comm#ents when he worked on it 
[04:18] <nomed> but as i've already some code done i guess it'll not be difficult to add it as possible plugin
[04:19] <nomed> ogra, that's true
[04:19] <nomed> but if it was possible to move colors defs within a themerc file
[04:19] <nomed> that would be easier
[04:19] <ogra> true
[04:22] <nomed> ogra, then .. if i'm not wrong librsvg now supports css like stuff
[04:23] <bddebian> Kamion: Do you have a minute by any chance?
[04:23] <nomed> if would be cool if it was possible to define icons colors within a css like file
[04:23] <ogra> nomed, but thats beyond such a tool
[04:23] <ogra> at least unless its implemented in gnome to make use of it
[04:24] <nomed> ogra, well .. 
[04:24] <Kamion> bddebian: sure
[04:24] <nomed> probably inkscape should support it more then gnome ..
[04:24] <nomed> i think if librsvg con support it .. gnome can too
[04:25] <nomed> but i didn't check it yet
[04:25] <ogra> still its more suited for gnome theme management than for a branding tool
[04:27] <bddebian> Kamion: You chastised me (and probably rightfully so) about subscribing ubuntu-archive.  Do you have any thoughts about how I should be better escalate questions/issues?  python2.1 is a good example.
[04:29] <Kamion> bddebian: mailing people generally responsible for that area (for example, Matthias Klose maintains python and is an Ubuntu guy, so is a good place to start for that sort of thing) is one approach; if you can't find anyone else, mailing ubuntu-devel@ would be appropriate
[04:30] <Kamion> mail is good if IRC doesn't work, as not everyone watches IRC all the time
[04:31] <bddebian> Kamion: OK, fair enough
[04:32] <nomed> ogra, true
[04:33] <nomed> if your derivatives is using gnome :)
[04:33] <nomed> anyway still early for that stuff :)
[04:33] <mdke> dholbach: ubuntu-docs is ready for another upload, when you next have time (no urgency)
[04:34] <dholbach> mdke: rock on
[04:35] <dholbach> bddebian: don't forget to point slomo and siretart too :)
[04:35] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: please test casper tomorrow and verify that the a11y bugs on the live cd have been fixed.
[04:35] <bddebian> Where has siretart been lately?
[04:35] <siretart> bddebian: at work. beginning master thesis
[04:36] <bddebian> So I have a serious question that is probably going to get laughed at.  How many of you would freak if I eventually went for main?
[04:36] <bddebian> siretart: Oh, excellent
[04:37] <fabbione> Kamion: bug #32845 ... we might have to find a way to exclude only LVM volumes.. dmraid and other trickery use that path for their devices. it doesn't matter for dapper, but for edgy it mostlikely will
[04:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32845 in partman-auto "Should stop partman-auto from showing LVM volumes" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32845
[04:37] <stockholm> Keybuk: do you have a twin in sweden, with a kid?
[04:38] <stockholm> they guy even moves like you
[04:39] <Keybuk> stockholm: not that I'm aware :)
[04:39] <Diziet> fabbione: See also Malone 41624.
[04:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41624 in partman-basicfilesystems "aggressive volume discovery => data loss" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41624
[04:39] <Mithrandir> mjg59: hmm, vbetool segfaulting when trying to enter suspend mode on an amd64; is this known?
[04:39] <stockholm> Keybuk: check with your parents, perhaps. 
[04:39] <Mithrandir> mjg59: (desktop, nvidia binary drivers)
[04:40] <mjg59> Mithrandir: vbetool isn't supposed to be executing when suspending
[04:40] <Kamion> fabbione: dmraid doesn't seem to have a "-" in the basename of the device; I only excluded /dev/mapper/*-*
[04:40] <Kamion> Diziet: unrelated
[04:40] <mjg59> Oh, right, for the DPMS
[04:40] <mjg59> Erm
[04:40] <mjg59> Could be a bug in vbetool, could be BIOS madness
[04:40] <mjg59> Take your pick
[04:40] <mjg59> Oh, sorry, it also runs later
[04:40] <Keybuk> stockholm: I'm aware of my family tree back at least half a dozen generations, to my knowledge I have no swedish cousins :)
[04:40] <Diziet> Kamion: Err, they seem vaguely related in the sense that the consequences of partman-auto being encourating about LVM might also be bad.
[04:41] <mjg59> Mithrandir: I think this is a "Figure out what's up with vbetool" sort of situation
[04:41] <Kamion> Diziet: unless your primary complaint in 41624 was that the LVM volumes appeared in the autopartitioner; that part will be fixed
[04:41] <Kamion> Diziet: but that wasn't my sense of the bug
[04:41] <fabbione> Diziet: unrelated really.
[04:41] <Keybuk>   -7199.362272  add@/class/misc/rtc
[04:41] <Keybuk> *giggle*
[04:41] <Keybuk> man, I hate that
[04:41] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I think it might have crashed earlier.  Anyway, it refuses to suspend, or rather suspends (both displays powered off), then immediately comes back.  Where should I start digging to give you an useful error message?
[04:42] <fabbione> Kamion: as i said, for dapper is no issue at all.. you can discard all of mapper/*
[04:42] <Keybuk> (event processed by udevd 2 hours *before* it was sent by the kernel/udevplug)
[04:42] <stockholm> bye
[04:42] <fabbione> Kamion: we only have lvm2 and multipath-tools as official clients that uses mapper/
[04:42] <mjg59> Mithrandir: I don't really understand the x86 emulation at all
[04:42] <siretart> bddebian: regarding my ubuntu work: I'm currently rather focusing on wpasupplicant, uvf reports and work on unmet deps. so I'm still around :)
[04:42] <Kamion> Diziet: I also don't think we should disable the ability of the (install CD's) partitioner's ability to understand LVM just because a couple of people might have a hibernated operating system with some LVM state and fail to know about it when installing an operating system!
[04:43] <mjg59> Mithrandir: As for the failure to suspend, dmesg?
[04:43] <mjg59> vbetool shouldn't be inhibiting that in any way
[04:43] <Mithrandir> mjg59: vbetool segfaults after I've resumed so I'll look at that later.
[04:43] <Kamion> Diziet: (assuming that lvdisplay and such are safe)
[04:43] <bddebian> siretart: That wasn't a slam, I just haven't "seen" you on IRC much :)
[04:44] <mjg59> Mithrandir: It's almost certainly segfaulting due to an x86emu issue
[04:45] <zakame> siretart: hey, thanks for the comment on 42055
[04:45] <Mithrandir> mjg59: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13280 is the dmesg
[04:46] <siretart> bddebian: thats right. I'm perhaps a bit quiter on ubuntu irc channels, but I'm still around and active. I'm currently preparing myself for NM (and debian work in general), but I still work dapper :)
[04:47] <zakame> siretart: you got an AM now right?
[04:47] <bddebian> siretart: WHAT?? Traitor.. ;-P
[04:47] <siretart> zakame: not yet
[04:49] <siretart> bddebian: there are more DDs in this channel than you may think ;)
[04:49] <bddebian> siretart: Oh, I know :-)
[04:49] <zakame> ooh, slomo and sladen are waiting for AM too :D
[04:50] <mjg59> Mithrandir: The dmesg from the failed suspend?
[04:50] <Mithrandir> mjg59: yes.  I suspended at 16:38:40
[04:50] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I have removed about ten screenfulls of nv_sata whining, though
[04:50] <Mithrandir> (line 42)
[04:50] <mjg59> May  2 16:38:50 xoog kernel: [  612.676639]  swsusp: Cannot find swap device, try swapon -a.
[04:51] <Mithrandir> duh, that kinda explains it
[04:51] <Mithrandir> why don't I have swap?
[04:51] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Failed suspend at some point?
[04:52] <mjg59> I thought initramfs-tools was supposed to make sure the partition was good after a failed resume, but I'm not sure if it actually does that
[04:52] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I seem not to have a swap partition
[04:53] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Ah!
[04:54] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I just created one, let's see if it works better this time around. :-)
[04:54] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Remember to add it to mkinitramfs.conf and regenerate the initramfs
[04:55] <pitti> sfllaw: just a note, please do not assign security bugs for universe packages to ubuntu-security; I'm afraid I don't have enough time to fix them. CC'ing me is fine and welcome, of course :)
[04:56] <bddebian> doko: ping?
[04:56] <pitti> sfllaw: on that note, may I introduce you to http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/ ? It's an automatically updated status of our security issues in all releases; maybe it might help you with bug triage sometimes
[04:57] <doko> bddebian: pong
[04:57] <sfllaw> pitti: Thanks.
[04:58] <sfllaw> pitti: Have I done that by accident yet?
[04:58] <sfllaw> I know I've touched one bug where I attached a CVE.
[04:59] <pitti> sfllaw: yes, bug 41781
[04:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41781 in xine-ui "Missing format string, possibly exploitable" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41781
[04:59] <pitti> Seveas: btw, ^ any chance that this displays the Ubuntu task status?
[05:00] <pitti> Seveas: unknown/unconfirmed is the Debian task, it's fixed in ubuntnu
[05:00] <Seveas> pitti, "unconfirmed" is currently considered more interesting than "fixreleased"
[05:01] <Seveas> pre-sorting on distro may be a useful addition, opens a nice new can of worms 
[05:01] <bddebian> doko: I got the impression that you were OK with removing jython and python2.1?  Was I incorrect?
[05:01] <sfllaw> pitti: Thanks.
[05:01] <doko> bddebian: that's ok
[05:01] <bddebian> doko: BTW, I pulled jython 2.2a from sourceforge.  It's a mess :-(
[05:02] <pitti> Seveas: oh, nevermind then; it just sprang into my eye
[05:02] <doko> bddebian: yes, see the comments on the debian bug reports
[05:02] <Diziet> Kamion: Oh, I see what you mean now, and I agree.
[05:03] <bddebian> doko: I ask because infinity seemed to disagree (about python2.1):  Bug #41510
[05:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41510 in python2.1 "[UNMETDEPS]  python2.1 has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41510
[05:08] <_ion> Does this not affect every gdm user? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/42397
[05:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42397 in gdm "Can't register Xsession on dapper beta" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[05:10] <Mithrandir> mjg59: apart from the nvidia drivers not being amused, that seemed to work.
[05:10] <Mithrandir> mjg59: that might be related to the vbetool crash, though
[05:11] <nomed> dholbach, around ?
[05:11] <ogra> Kamion/mdz, if a debian package was in experimental for a while, do you want these changelog entries as well in a UVF exception request ? 
[05:11] <nomed> what's the best solution in your opinion for those lapo's icons ?
[05:11] <ogra> or is the sid changelog enough ?
[05:12] <ogra> (experimental adds a lot of noise i think)
[05:12] <dholbach> nomed: yes
[05:12] <Diziet> When does the update-notifier applet check for new entries in user.d ?
[05:12] <seb128> _ion: I would not have uploaded a bugged package if it didn't work for me if that's what you suggest
[05:12] <Diziet> (For that matter, where is the documentation ??)
[05:13] <nomed> dholbach, lapo sent me some icons .. he told me even you know they exist (?)
[05:14] <dholbach> nomed: um, what am I supposed to do now?
[05:14] <mvo> Diziet: it checks after package updates (when /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-was-run was touched)
[05:14] <nomed> do u think they should go tango-icon-theme-foo
[05:14] <nomed> or in xubuntu-icon-theme ?
[05:14] <nomed> *go in*
[05:14] <Diziet> mvo: Oh, so if I say `dpkg -i' it doesn't notice ?
[05:15] <mvo> Diziet: the documentation is on thw wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InteractiveUpgradeHooks
[05:15] <_ion> seb128: Let me rephrase my question: "i wonder why this affects some gdm users and not others"
[05:15] <mvo> Diziet: yes
[05:15] <dholbach> nomed: I'm going to write a mail to ubuntu-art later
[05:15] <seb128> _ion: to reply to that somebody having the issue would have to debug it
[05:15] <mvo> Diziet: it hooks into apts config system
[05:15] <nomed> dholbach, ok
[05:15] <Diziet> #include <stdrant.h>   Thanks.
[05:16] <_ion> seb128: I took a look at the code, but didn't find anything so far.
[05:16] <mvo> Diziet: sorry, this could be changed (with some pain)
[05:16] <seb128> _ion: it used to work with 2.14.0 right? so that's probably something that changed between 2.14.0 and 2.14.4
[05:17] <Diziet> mvo: check /var/lib/dpkg/status instead ?  (OK, not guaranteed to always work, but guaranteed to work if dpkg exited zero.)
[05:17] <_ion> Where could i find the 2.14.0 source package?
[05:18] <dAndy_> Kamion: re #38111 the new package fixed it for me, the bug is already marked as a duplicate, do I need to do anything else?
[05:20] <_ion> seb128?
[05:21] <seb128> _ion: the distro patches didn't change, you can use tarball from ftp.gnome.org or http://cvs.gnome.org to figure what changed
[05:21] <_ion> seb128: Ok.
[05:22] <seb128> _ion: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gdm2/ChangeLog?r1=1.1419&r2=1.1420
[05:22] <seb128> _ion: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gdm2/daemon/slave.c?r1=1.325&r2=1.326 
[05:22] <seb128> _ion: that might be the fix you want
[05:23] <seb128> _ion: if you could rebuild a package with the patch and confirm the fix I would appreciate
[05:23] <_ion> seb128: I'll do that.
[05:23] <seb128> ta
[05:25] <mjg59> Mithrandir: The vbetool crash can probably be ignored
[05:26] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Unless it doesn't crash on x86 on the same hardware
[05:28] <dholbach> mdke: you're ok with http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/debdiff.txt?
[05:36] <mdke> dholbach: checking
[05:36] <dholbach> mdke: thanks
[05:37] <doko> Diziet, pitti: do you see the gs-esp 8.15.2 as an option?
[05:37] <pitti> doko: I do, and if mdz and Diziet are fine with the changes, I'd appreciate it
[05:38] <doko> great
[05:38] <bddebian> doko: Oh yeah, one other quick question.  I was ripping python2.1 out of pychecker.  Should I remove 2.2 at the same time?  (Not that I can upload the change anyway but)
[05:39] <mdke> dholbach: perfect thanks
[05:42] <dholbach> mdke: rock on
[05:44] <dholbach> mdke: done
[05:45] <Diziet> doko: Yes, I think so, but I want to take a quick look at the code as well as the changelog.
[05:45] <doko> bddebian: sure, why not
[05:47] <seb128> _ion: are you trying that patch? just curious to know if I should upload with it and close the bug now :)
[05:47] <seb128> :)
[05:47] <bddebian> doko: OK, one last question, I promise :-)  What's the best way to get someone on the main side to do that for me?  File a bug?
[05:47] <_ion> seb128: Still building. My machine isn't the fastest one on the block. :-)
[05:47] <mdke> dholbach: thanks a lot :)
[05:47] <dholbach> mdke: de rien
[05:48] <seb128> _ion: no problem, if you are working on it that's good enough, I'll wait ;)
[05:55] <_ion> seb128: With http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/gdm-debian-patches-20_egid.patch it works. \o/
[05:55] <bddebian> Heya \sh
[05:57] <seb128> _ion: thank you, I'll upload the package I've ready for it
[05:57] <\sh> huhu bddebian
[06:01] <seb128> _ion: fixed version uploaded
[06:02] <_ion> seb128: Thanks.
[06:02] <seb128> np, thank you for trying the patch
[06:04] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, ping
[06:10] <ogra> doko, is openoffice (writer for example) to open with an empty document if you start it ?
[06:10] <ogra> s/to/supposed to/
[06:10] <doko> seb128: to hide a menu entry, you have to add "NoDisplay=true, but alacarte cannot find that entry. or was this another attribute? 
[06:11] <doko> ogra: yes
[06:11] <ogra> doko, seems that doesnt happen in current edubuntu beta2 ... is there a bug open about that ?
[06:11] <seb128> doko: NoDisplay=true is right, that would an alacarte bug then
[06:11] <seb128> doko: it lists the others item we changed
[06:13] <sladen> pitti: is it worth getting ~pitti/ubuntu-cve/ linked somewhere more openly?
[06:14] <sladen> pitti: as a way of saying "look, here's our security status", it would be awesome
[06:14] <sladen> pitti: does it expose any undisclosed/embargoed vulns?
[06:14] <doko> seb128: ok, thanks, maybe the bug submitter is wrong. works for me
[06:15] <nomed> janimo, do u get|understand that xfburn reply? 
[06:15] <pitti> sladen: no, it doesn't disclose embargoed ones
[06:15] <pitti> sladen: eventually this should be moved into proper Malone functionality
[06:15] <janimo> nomed, let me check. I just saw one and read the list a minute ago.
[06:15] <pitti> sladen: but if you have an idea where to link it from, that would certainly be nice
[06:15] <\sh> sladen: would be better if ubuntu is listed in the cert advisory MLs
[06:16] <janimo> nomed, oh never mind. that's irrelevant. I asked the author
[06:16] <janimo> these kinds of answers just > /dev/null
[06:16] <sladen> \sh: I'm thinking as a PR tool for our [potential]  users
[06:18] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: pong
[06:18] <nomed> janimo, if u have to ask to an xubuntu developer i guess that's an endless loop :)
[06:18] <janimo> yup :)
[06:18] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, can I send you patches for goffice and gnumeric for a review?
[06:19] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: new goffice patch?
[06:19] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, yes
[06:19] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: can you do a bug report?
[06:19] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: so the whole desktop team can look at it?
[06:19] <\sh> sladen: do you think security related reports are good "PR"? we should focus more on "we don't have viruses, we have less trojans and wurms then vista will have" ;)
[06:19] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, ok, the thing is I don't want a new uplod if the gnumeric patch is not ok
[06:19] <janimo> nomed, I reread the mail and will assume he misread mine and does not know I work on xubuntu, rather than assume it's the typical kneejerk reaction from another distro's developer
[06:20] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: sure
[06:20] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, I'll reopen the goffice bug and link to the new gnumeric one then :)
[06:20] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: thanks
[06:20] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: that's super
[06:21] <Gloubiboulga> :)
[06:24] <doko> infinity: when you are awake, please could you reschedule openoffice.org-l10n? a local build succeeds.
[06:29] <Diziet> What's the conventional naming scheme for a .dfsg...orig.tar.gz which we create ahead of Debian ?
[06:29] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, I've suscribed you to the gnumeric bug
[06:29] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: thanks
[06:42] <sladen> \sh: a question I've been asked more than once is "what's Ubuntu security update track record like"
[06:43] <sladen> \sh: thanks to pitti, it's better than most distro's :)
[06:43] <\sh> sladen: asked by whom? normal user or or normal freak?
[06:45] <sladen> \sh: corporate types, potential users and normal users
[06:46] <\sh> sladen: so normal freaks :) normal users don't think about "security" they think about "can I play doom3 on it" :)
[06:47] <\sh> sladen: see windows :)
[06:48] <Kamion> \sh: you need a different type of PR to communicate with people doing corporate rollouts than you need to communicate with home users. Good PR involves both.
[06:51] <\sh> Kamion: corporate users will need professional PR...and a professional webpage which tells them "trust us, we know what we are doing"...so we are far away from that...community based is a good thing, coporate users needs more love then the "normal community"...
[06:52] <sladen> \sh: generally who ever they are, they need an answer to their question.
[06:52] <sladen> \sh: s/their/_*their*_/
[06:52] <\sh> Kamion: I got the feeling that "Hey, this linux is sponsored by m.s." is more worth then "we have Pitti who is fixing all security issues"...you know what I mean
[06:52] <Diziet> 8.15.2.dfsg.0ubuntu1-0ubuntu1 ??
[06:52] <LaserJock> \sh: "normal" community? we are a bug smashing, desktop rocking community ;-) 
[06:53] <\sh> LaserJock: gnarf ;)
[06:54] <\sh> sladen: and we need a better presentation of some stuff which is for the "corporate and business faction"
[06:57] <sladen> \sh: not sure about the word 'need'.  But providing (being open with) information and statistics that have already been produced is on the whole good;  allowing other people to feel that they are making their own judgements
[07:04] <Kamion> \sh: that depends on whether you're trying to market to the CEO or to the sysadmin
[07:04] <Kamion> (ideally, you want both)
[07:06] <\sh> Kamion: yeah, most of the time, the sysadmin says "yes, this is the thing we want" and then comes the CEO...would be solved with a better representation of the "supported product" (actually this is what I'm trying to do right now with the new job :))
[07:09] <LaserJock> Seveas: PING?
[07:09] <LaserJock> Seveas: ack, sorry for the caps
[07:09] <Seveas> LaserJock, PNG
[07:10] <_ion> png
[07:11] <Seveas> haha
[07:13] <Keybuk> 
[07:14] <bddebian> mdz: Ping?
[07:14] <Keybuk> or just 
[07:16] <mdz> bddebian: here
[07:16] <bddebian> mdz: If jython is removed, the rdepends for python2.1 are gone.  Except pychecker but infinity says it's not necessary.  I have a patch to remove the | python2.1 from pychecker
[07:17] <Kamion> no need to remove alternate deps, as infinity says
[07:17] <mdz> bddebian: as I said in the bug, pychecker should depend on 'python' and nothing else, but in any case it was not an issue for removing python2.1
[07:18] <bddebian> Well as always, it comes back to how far to deviate from Debian?  Of course I can't touch any of them anyway since they are in main.
[07:18] <mdz> bddebian: but I see several python2.1-* modules which *are* blocking this removal
[07:19] <kyr0> hi
[07:19] <mdz> bddebian: and they are all in universe
[07:19] <bddebian> Ack, where'd idle-python2.1 come from?  Hmm
[07:19] <mdz> bddebian: "apt-cache showpkg python2.1" will show you the binary package deps; there may be some build-deps as well
[07:20] <bddebian> Hello kyr0
[07:21] <mdz> Kamion: do we have a new melanie -n or whatever it was, which will list all of the packages which would be broken by a removal?  that output could go in the bug report
[07:21] <kyr0> hello all, i'm developing on a brand new instant messaging solution called "ubuntu meetings". devel language is java. ubuntu meetings holds user data in a hsqldb as database backend. the frontend will be created using the SWT toolkit...
[07:22] <zyga> hey there kyr0 
[07:22] <bddebian> mdz: I'll check manually.  I don't know what kind of crack I am on, sorry
[07:22] <tseng> why is it called ubuntu?
[07:22] <Keybuk> mdz: there's checkrdepends on drescher
[07:22] <Kamion> what Keybuk said
[07:22] <Kamion> what's the bug report?
[07:23] <zyga> kyrr0: is it developed already or are you still planning?
[07:23] <Kamion> (never mind, found it)
[07:23] <bddebian> Python2.2-xml provides python2.1-xml and python2.2-xml.. heh
[07:24] <Diziet> Ah, excellent, the random incomprehensible hieroglyphs language I chose doesn't have the whole partitioner translated so I feel quite confident I'm not trashing my disk.
[07:24] <Diziet> I turned out to be Chinese (Simplified).
[07:24] <Diziet> s/I/It/ # ur
[07:25] <kyr0> tseng: because the inner/deeper sense of this messenger is to bring the people together. in my vision ubuntu meetings sould implement a tiny version of google earth using free nasa map material and opengodb. so there would be the possibillity that all the people can put notes on the global map and tell their problems and why they need help etc. so people of the world can help them immediately :) 
[07:26] <bddebian> Damnit
[07:26] <kyr0> tseng: ubuntu meetings also sould have groups with bullitin board etc. like orkut
[07:26] <\sh> kyr0: you checked jabber.org already? a jabber google map is already active and we have lot of "chat applications" xmpp ready (as well written in java)
[07:27] <tseng> kyr0: sounds like a pretty ambitious project
[07:27] <kyr0> \sh: ubuntu meetings should be basend on XMPP
[07:27] <tseng> kyr0: maybe you could spec out the major features for a 1.0 release
[07:28] <\sh> kyr0: cool...talk to some people from jadmin-devel, they can help you to implement some stuff e.g. pubsub for bulletin boards etc. or blogging via jabber...it's all there :)
[07:28] <kyr0> tseng: yeah :) i'm on it ;) but i think it shouldn't be a "one man show". thats why i talk to you here ;)
[07:29] <\sh> just the "java part" you should replace with "python" because ubuntus main scripting language is "python" ;)
[07:29] <zyga> hehe
[07:29] <zyga> and java sucks memory :/
[07:30] <mdz> Diziet: what happened with the firefox pango change I requested?
[07:31] <kyr0> hmm I'm not a python developer. i dont like python because of it's syntax...
[07:32] <zyga> kyr0: it's your choice but make sure that free java works as well as sun-java for this app
[07:32] <\sh> zyga: "Free java"?
[07:32] <kyr0> zyga: blackdown? classpath?
[07:32] <\sh> zyga: "gcj"?
[07:33] <zyga> \sh: the apt-gettable java
[07:33] <kyr0> blackdown jre :)
[07:33] <zyga> \sh: I really don't know - I don't use java recently
[07:34] <\sh> zyga: ok..you mean gcj and blackdown then..."free as in free beer" :)
[07:34] <zyga> OTOH reading java source is really amusing sometimes
[07:35] <kyr0> it's possible to write damn cool code in java too :)
[07:36] <Diziet> Oh dear, the install failed.  Hrm.
[07:36] <zyga> kyr0: my personal opinion is that java is average :/
[07:36] <kyr0> zyga: in some cases java performs better than c++ 
[07:36] <Diziet> mdz: It's included in my current version and I wanted to test that I hadn't broken CJK support, which is why I was trying to install Dapper in Chinese just now.
[07:36] <Diziet> But I think this is getting out of hand and I should just upload it.
[07:36] <kyr0> zyga: but the gui toolkit swing/awt is damn slow...
[07:37] <zyga> kyr0: yes I know, I used to do some research in java
[07:37] <kyr0> zyga: thats why i choose the _native_ toolkit swt
[07:37] <zyga> I was talking about the language itself
[07:37] <Diziet> I have about 0% chance of being able to sanely report a bug in the Chinese install ...
[07:37] <zyga> anyway: this is not a place for this discussion :)
[07:38] <kyr0> you're right :) btw: i tried the graphical installer on the dapper beta live-cd ;) the parition-gui was a horror :) 
[07:39] <Kamion> Diziet: at the moment I'm happy to take even ill-formed installer bugs; it's better that than have them possibly go unnoticed
[07:39] <Kamion> kyr0: constructive bug reports welcome; it's certainly wholeheartedly acknowledged to be not as good as it could be
[07:40] <Diziet> Kamion: OK.  Well, err, I'll report it then.  It was from the daily a few days ago.  Does that matter ?
[07:40] <Kamion> merging the mountpoints page into gparted is the number one thing that would help, but is also hard
[07:40] <Diziet> 20060426.1
[07:40] <Kamion> Diziet: probably not; feel free to run the gist of the failure by me in /msg though if you want a quick known/unknown check
[07:41] <mdz> Diziet: I don't think that changing the firefox wrapper script would break the installation process
[07:41] <Diziet> OK.
[07:41] <Diziet> mdz: No, but I wanted to test that a Chinese Dapper would still be able to view web pages with my change to the wrapper script.
[07:41] <lucas> could somebody help me move forward with bug #34155 ?
[07:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34155 in Ubuntu "sleep and hibernate don't work on Dell C640 (regression from breezy)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34155
[07:41] <bddebian> doko: Still around?
[07:41] <Diziet> But to test that I need to install a Chinese Dapper.
[07:41] <lucas> I reported it two months ago, and it's _really_ annoying
[07:41] <mdz> Diziet: no, you can use a Chinese locale in an existing install
[07:42] <Treenaks> Is it a bug that Firefox shows an authentication realm name as iso-8859-1 (even when it's UTF-8)? Or is the RFC that specifies HTTP authentication braindead?
[07:42] <Diziet> mdz: IME I'm not 100% accurate at getting the setup to look just like a real install.  This is particularly relevant here, where I may be keying my switch off the wrong thing.
[07:42] <mdz> or boot the live CD into Chinese for that matter
[07:42] <mdz> Diziet: what are you keying off of?
[07:45] <Diziet> mdz: existence or otherwise of various lines of the form  xy_  in files /var/lib/locales/supported.d/*[^~] 
[07:46] <Diziet> Err, lines starting xy_
[07:46] <Diziet> FVO xy in the rather ad-hoc list.
[07:47] <Diziet> mdz: I tested that it worked for Spanish since I had a Spanish and I nobbled it to think es_ was CJK.
[07:47] <Diziet> I think the right answer now is to upload it.
[07:50] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[07:51] <pitti> Diziet: not sure what you are trying to do, but installing language-pack-zh should give you translations, setup locales, etc.
[07:51] <Diziet> pitti: I want to check that I'm not about to break Chinese users' web browsers.
[07:52] <pitti> Diziet: 'sudo locale-gen zh_CN.UTF-8; LANGUAGE= LANG=zu_CN.UTF-8 firefox' will start ffox under chinese locale
[07:52] <pitti> mozilla-firefox-locale-zh-cn must be installed, of course
[07:53] <pitti> s/zu/zh/
[07:55] <Diziet> Urr.  zn isn't in the list of pango-requiring locales.  But it does seem to work.  OK.
[08:09] <Diziet> pitti: Thanks.
[08:09] <pitti> no problem
[08:09] <Diziet> Finally, I find a language where XY.wikipedia.org looks significantly different with and without pango.  XY=kn
[08:10] <Seveas> kn? What's that?
[08:10] <Diziet> Not sure.
[08:11] <Diziet> kn.wikipedia.org is entirely in kn, which I can't read :-).
[08:11] <Seveas> hehe
[08:11] <Diziet> Very pretty script it has.
[08:11] <Seveas> kannada
[08:11] <Seveas> http://kn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kannada_Support
[08:11] <_ion> Canadian
[08:12] <mdke> mdz: do you need some kind of special permissions to have a "milestone dropdown"? My page doesn't show it. Only Status, Severity, Priority.
[08:12] <Seveas> it's unintelligible enough to be canadian
[08:12] <mdz> mdke: ->#launchpad
[08:12] <mdke> ok
[08:16] <nmsa> hello
[08:17] <nmsa> Kamion, did u find ok the installer syslog on big-Id 42343 ?
[08:17] <bddebian> Oh, did syncs get fixed today??
[08:17] <nmsa> not sure why I got the first time the error, but was there
[08:17] <mdke> nmsa: he gets his bugs, don't worry
[08:18] <nmsa> mdke: I know, just want to know if needs something else extra :) to help fixing the problem, can't replicate it no more ...
[08:19] <mdke> nmsa: he'll ask on the bug if he needs anything. He gets a lot of bugs, so triaging them over irc sometimes isn't efficient
[08:21] <nmsa> mdke: ok :) sorry
[08:28] <ifmy> hello
[08:28] <ifmy> I don't know where I can ask help for that, but I've a problem with launchpad
[08:28] <ifmy> I don't receive any email when I subscribe to a bug
[08:29] <LaserJock> ifmy: #launchpad
[08:29] <ifmy> oki, thx
[08:29] <LaserJock> np
[08:29] <ifmy> \join #launchpad
[08:29] <ifmy> shit
[08:29] <bddebian> heh
[08:32] <mdke> Kinnison: ping?
[08:32] <pitti> does anyone here have a parallel printer and some minutes to debug it with me?
[08:35] <Diziet> I have a parallel printer but I have to go out and deliver some leaflets before it gets dark.  If you don't find anyone, ask me tomorrow.
[08:39] <pitti> Diziet: thanks
[08:39] <Diziet> NP
[08:39] <Diziet> I haven't done anything yet :-).
[08:40] <ogra> you solidarized :)
[08:42] <ogra> eek
[08:42] <ogra> all these blisters
[08:43] <Burgwork> Diziet, is that I blood I see on your back from self flagulation?
[08:44] <mdke> ogra: s/guessing/creating :)
[08:44] <ogra> hehe
[08:45] <mdke> creating words is to be encouraged
[08:45] <ogra> isnt that synonymous?
[08:45] <mdke> elmo: got a moment?
[09:21] <_ion> Btw., the current default background image is really great, especially when compared to the default background in breezy.
[09:25] <ogra> mdz, if a debian package was in experimental for a while, do you want these changelog entries as well in a UVF exception request ? 
[09:26] <ogra> seems there are a lot of clashing entries if i diff the changelogs of dia 0.95 and 0.94
[09:26] <ogra> only the sid entries dont clash
[09:36] <mdz> ogra: I don't understand what you mean by clashing entries
[09:36] <mdz> ogra: what I need to see is what has changed between the current dapper package and the proposed package
[09:39] <ogra> mdz, the 0.95 package was uploaded and developed in experimental while in parallel the 0.94 package was uploaded to sid since there were often uploads at the same day to both, there are clashing entries if i diff the changelogs, that resolves when the experimental package was moved to unstable
[09:39] <ogra> i'll just add the complete changelog from the last release our package has+
[09:40] <ogra> its just confusing that there were uploads to different repos at the same day
[09:41] <mdz> ogra: if I tell you that I don't understand 'clashing entries', it helps to clarify without using the phrase 'clashing entries' :-)
[09:41] <ogra> (partially with the same changes to both packages)
[09:42] <ogra> same change in experimental and sid on the same day to different packages with different versions ;)
[09:42] <mdz> ogra: are you saying that the changes from experimental are missing from the changelog in unstable?
[09:42] <ogra> nope, but the same changes were in 0.94-something and 0.95-pre-something on the same day
[09:43] <ogra> while -pre-something is the experimental package
[09:43] <mdz> which one are you suggesting that we use? the unstable package or the experimental package?
[09:43] <mdz> I only need the changelogs for the changes you are suggesting we merge
[09:44] <ogra> the experimental package moved to unstable when it dropped the -pre status
[09:44] <ogra> and when 0.94 was superseded by 0.95 in sid
[09:44] <mdz> it doesn't matter where the package has been, only what has changed relative to our package
[09:45] <ogra> i want to sync the one from sid indeed (i wouldnt sync anything from experimental at this stage)
[09:45] <ogra> ok
[09:45] <mdz> then send me the logs which describe changes from dapper to sid
[09:45] <ogra> yep
[09:50] <welshbyte> anyone know a way of making update-notifier think there are updates so i can test it?
[09:51] <welshbyte> oops meant to ask that in #ubuntu-bugs
[09:51] <uniq> downgrade a package maybe? 
[09:51] <ogra> with luck there are updates if you run sudo apt-get update :)
[09:52] <welshbyte> ogra: i've just installed all upgrades recently :/
[09:52] <mdz> mvo: was there a problem with your mail?  I seem to have just received several messages from you which were sent last week or so
[09:52] <ogra> mvo, i had the same at -activity this morning
[09:53] <uniq> welshbyte: then downgrade a package. 'apt-get install package=version'
[09:53] <welshbyte> uniq: ah great, thanks
[09:55] <mdz> uniq,welshbyte: downgrades are unsafe; you should always purge and then install the older version instead
[09:55] <uniq> roger that.
[09:55] <mdz> even if it appears to work, it's not uncommon for it to have put the package in a bad state
[09:56] <ompaul> mdz, if you have a moment do you want to take on that little irc bot is not right 
[09:57] <welshbyte> mdz: noted, thanks :)
[09:57] <mdz> ompaul: I haven't  deleted your message
[09:57] <mdz> ompaul: I'll get back to you
[09:58] <ompaul> mdz, np
[10:08] <mdke> sfllaw: ping
[10:24] <Harti> http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/releases/1.5.0.3.html
[10:26] <mvo> mdz: I hope not, I was traveling on saturday/sunday and send my mail out at monday afternoon
[10:54] <dAndy_> Kamion: is there any chance that lvm will be in the kickstart for dapper?
[10:54] <Kamion> dAndy_: no, sorry
[10:55] <Kamion> we're well past feature freeze, and besides it's hard
[10:55] <dieman> heh
[10:55] <dieman> i made a very hackish script for evms mirroing in fai
[10:55] <dieman> mirroring
[10:55] <dieman> when it found 2 identical drives
[10:55] <dieman> even that simple of a case took a while to write
[10:55] <dAndy_> Kamion: alright, thanks, edgy then? maybe?
[10:57] <Kamion> dAndy_: no plans currently, but I won't rule it out either
[10:57] <Kamion> I'm pretty focused on dapper
[10:58] <dAndy_> Kamion: fair enough, thanks
[11:02] <dieman> damnit
[11:02] <dieman> im getting a signal 11 on smbspool
[11:02] <dieman> through cups
[11:02] <mdke> dieman: I think that is known, infinity mentioned something like that recently, check the bugtracker
[11:02] <dieman> ok
[11:03] <dieman> mdke: thank
[11:03] <dieman> s
[11:03] <mdke> np
[11:03] <dieman> i was just worried it was some new crazy problem
[11:03] <dieman> otherwise found very little in the way of problems on my test install here
[11:04] <dieman> at work, for integrating it into our unix enivornment at cs.umn.edu
[11:07] <dieman> yeah, but #39484
[11:07] <dieman> bug rather
[11:11] <Surak> Kamion, can you please support my ubuntu membership at ubuntu-meeting?
[11:11] <mdke> Surak: he's on the Council.
[11:12] <Surak> mdke: I would not like to talk at channel.
[11:13] <Surak> meeting channel, I mean.
[11:15] <Kamion> I don't really like to count myself for support for membership except in exceptional circumstances; my word carries a bit too much weight there to use it lightly
[11:15] <Kamion> I can and will certainly make comment
[11:15] <Kamion> s
[11:15] <Surak> Kamion: thanks.
[11:17] <dieman> suck, somehow the pam/nis/passwd stuff i fixed for .76 backported from .79 didn't make it into dapper
[11:17] <dieman> i wonder if debian's pam adjused some of their patches for the changes and further broke it
[11:18] <dieman> adjusted, arugh.
[11:18] <elmo> mjg59: ping?
[11:21] <zul> heylo
[11:22] <crimsun> Kamion: the issue covered at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperBeta/PartitionTableCorruption is not applicable to beta 2, correct?
[11:24] <Kamion> crimsun: beta 2 was released to fix that issue
[11:24] <Kamion> I'll edit the page to make that clear
[11:25] <crimsun> Kamion: thanks, I just wanted to confirm that, since a user in #ubuntu continues to abuse me for not mentioning that when I clearly asked him to use beta 2.
[11:25] <Kamion> I see
[11:25] <Kamion> edited, anyway
[11:26] <ogra> crimsun, evil guy :p
[11:34] <bpuccio> hmmm, anyone know why I've been banned from #ubuntu? I haven't said anything all day, I just lurk there, found out I got banned when I just got home now
[11:35] <zul> crimsun: is that the ntfs guy?
[11:37] <crimsun> zul: yes
[11:37] <zul> still? oi