[01:16] <mhz_cook> edubuntugirl: next meeting
[01:16] <edubuntugirl> mhz_cook: excuse me?
[01:16] <mhz_cook> edubuntugirl: when is next edubutnu meeting
[01:16] <edubuntugirl> mhz_cook: okay
[01:17] <mhz_cook> ah, right
[03:06] <ipfw> aye, anyone awake ?
[03:07] <ipfw> I just want to know, does edubuntu have some docs that pop up when you first install, to teach the *basic* type commands ? ... cp, mv, mkdir, du, df, ls, cd, more, cat, and so on ?
[03:07] <ogra> ipfw, nope
[03:08] <ogra> since one of our targets is to make the system usable without console
[03:09] <ogra> but the desktop guide should explain how to do these tasks in a gui way
[03:09] <ipfw> thats dumb, an educational based distro -- to teach people how to avoid learning *Nix ;)
[03:10] <ipfw> is there a distro that does actually come up with docs to teach basic *nix commands ?
[03:10] <ogra> we are not aiming to be a distro to teach unix, we want to provide a teaching environment
[03:11] <ipfw> why teach everything but the OS it runs on ...
[03:11] <ogra> use tldp.org for such stuff
[03:11] <ogra> indeed you can read all manpages in the help viewer
[03:12] <ipfw> having a hard time finding something that covers basics, I know its there, but alot to dig through
[03:13] <ipfw> thanks though
[03:13] <ogra> tldp is an independent project doing what you want
[03:13] <ogra> hrm
[04:16] <mhz_cook> ogra: still there?
[04:17] <ogra> mhz, in -meeting, yes, but hardly awake
[04:17] <mhz> oh, then I can wait til tomorrow
[07:11] <pygi> mornin' 
[07:11] <HedgeMage> good morning :)
[07:12] <pygi> hi HedgeMage
[07:19] <HedgeMage> adding my finished chapters to the wiki as we speak
[07:20] <HedgeMage> It seems that only one other chapter is already up there, so I don't feel so bad about being late any more :P
[07:21] <pygi> HedgeMage: hehe :)
[07:41] <pygi> JaneW: around? :)
[07:48] <PeterFA> I'm ganna' 'nix up our college a bit.
[07:50] <bimberi> PeterFA: go you good thing! :)
[07:50] <HedgeMage> :)
[07:50] <HedgeMage> heya PeterFA 
[07:51] <PeterFA> What up?
[07:54] <HedgeMage> not much
[08:48] <cbx33> Mornin all
[08:49] <pygi> mornin' cbx33
[08:49] <bimberi> hey cbx33
[08:49] <pygi> what's up? :)
[08:49] <cbx33> mornin bimberi pygi 
[08:50] <cbx33> yeh going good, highvoltage not been around yet?
[08:50] <pygi> cbx33: nop
[08:50] <bimberi> !seen highvoltage
[08:50] <ubotu> highvoltage <n=Jono@ubuntu/member/highvoltage> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 10h 59m 55s ago, saying: ':)'.
[08:50] <cbx33> hehe
[08:50] <cbx33> must have been his goodnight message :p
[08:50] <cbx33> how are you all this morning :D
[08:50] <bimberi> such a happy chappy :)
[08:50] <pygi> great, and you?
[08:51] <bimberi> very well thankyou this afternoon - about to hop on the MTB and cycle home
[08:51] <cbx33> nice bimberi 
[08:51] <cbx33> yeh I'm great
[08:51] <cbx33> thanks for the support yesterday pygi 
[08:52] <cbx33> :D
[08:52] <pygi> cbx33: heh, you are welcome :)
[08:52] <bimberi> still on a high?
[08:52] <cbx33> of course
[08:52] <bimberi> :)
[08:52] <cbx33> :D:D:D
[08:53] <HedgeMage> hey cbx33 congrats :)
[08:54] <cbx33> thank you
[08:56] <cbx33> well, back to work i guess
[08:57] <bimberi> cbx33: btw you're entitled to an ubuntu/member/<yournick> cloak if you like one.  Ask Seveas, or email him - dennis@ubuntu.com.
[08:58] <bimberi> *you'd
[08:59] <cbx33> wow excellent, I asked highvoltage how those were setup
[09:00] <cbx33> :D
[09:00] <highvoltage> good morning :)
[09:00] <bimberi> check the last bit of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto
[09:00] <bimberi> hi highvoltage
[09:00] <cbx33> highvoltage: <bugmode on> Email address :p
[09:00] <pygi> mornin' higvoltage
[09:00] <highvoltage> hi pygi, cbx33 and bimberi 
[09:00] <highvoltage> cbx33: yeah, check that wiki page :)
[09:01] <cbx33> ok
[09:01] <cbx33> highvoltage: I started on thw wiki cleanup
[09:42] <pygi> JaneW: you here? 
[09:50] <JaneW> pygi: hi, yes I am
[09:50] <JaneW> pygi: you seem to be here day and night
[09:50] <JaneW> :)
[09:50] <pygi> JaneW: :-P
[09:50] <pygi> I was thinking perhaps we could put on our wiki SoC page for which project we already have applied people
[09:51] <pygi> so people know they have a competition
[09:52] <pygi> and me and Vincent were talking...perhaps we should separate what mentors can vote on which projects applications (depending on their interests)
[09:52] <cbx33> JaneW: whats the status of TeacherTool?
[09:52] <pygi> cbx33: you mean Student-Control-Panel?
[09:53] <highvoltage> On the 4th of May, at two minutes and three seconds after
[09:53] <highvoltage> 1:00 in the morning, the time and date will be:
[09:53] <highvoltage> 01:02:03 04/05/06
[09:53] <cbx33> that too
[09:53] <JaneW> highvoltage: except in America
[09:53] <JaneW> highvoltage:  where it will be 01:02:03 05/04/06
[09:53] <highvoltage> they're different with everything.
[09:53] <JaneW> :P
[09:53] <cbx33> JaneW: right, they already had theirs
[09:53] <pygi> JaneW: comments pls ? :)
[09:54] <JaneW> pygi: we could do your option 1
[09:54] <JaneW> but it requires a lot of admin
[09:54] <JaneW> students should assume there's competition
[09:54] <pygi> nah, currently it doesn't
[09:54] <pygi> we have just 15 applications by now
[09:54] <pygi> ah,oki
[09:54] <JaneW> as the applications are generally 10-30 fold the available projects
[09:55] <JaneW> pygi: yes but it's early days
[09:55] <pygi> and what about the second thing?
[09:55] <pygi> yup, agreed
[09:55] <JaneW> pygi: they have till 22 May to apply
[09:55] <pygi> JaneW: huh, no
[09:55] <pygi> just until May, 8 if I am not mistaken?
[09:55] <JaneW> so I am palnning to really start getting into the applications next week
[09:56] <JaneW> this week I am focusing on getting the mentors lined up and making sure we have proper ideas and idea some specs as afr as possible
[09:56] <pygi> JaneW: google announces results May, 22
[09:56] <JaneW> as for second sugeestion
[09:56] <pygi> they have to submit application by May,8
[09:57] <cbx33> pygi: do you know of any progress on student control panel?
[09:57] <JaneW> gah
[09:57] <JaneW> pygi: you are correct
[09:57] <JaneW> damn, I thiough there was longer than that
[09:57] <pygi> cbx33: considering I am kinda working on it right now, the answer might be "no" :)
[09:57] <pygi> JaneW: no worries :) most applications will come last minutes :)
[09:57] <cbx33> pygi: no problem
[09:57] <pygi> cbx33: but shoot, what are you interested in?
[09:58] <cbx33> well, I'm kinda clearing up the wiki
[09:58] <pygi> cbx33: I'll be throwing a couple of features in for edgy
[09:58] <highvoltage> JaneW: edubuntu members are getting @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses, since they are ubuntu members too, do you think they should be getting @edubuntu e-mail addresses?
[09:58] <cbx33> ready for dapper release
[09:58] <JaneW> pygi: I have heaps of e-mail enquiries (again) and am doing my best to respond to those and it would be nice to do some interacting via the Google Application too
[09:58] <JaneW> pygi: I don;t think we can limit mentors in that way, but I do think it will happen naturally
[09:59] <pygi> JaneW; ah,oki :) 
[09:59] <cbx33> so it's in active development :D
[09:59] <JaneW> pygi: and btw thanks for all the help with this, it's great to have some extra hands
[09:59] <JaneW> last year I was completely on my own
[09:59] <pygi> JaneW: no need to thank me all the time =P
[09:59] <JaneW> pygi: but I mean it
[09:59] <pygi> JaneW: yes, yes, you are welcome :)
[09:59] <pygi> cbx33: that's right :)
[10:00] <pygi> JaneW: basicly, we already have one very nice proposal
[10:00] <pygi> for the bzr thingy
[10:01] <pygi> cbx33: what's the wiki for s-c-p? TeachersPet?
[10:02] <highvoltage> is there a wiki page for that yet?
[10:02] <pygi> highvoltage: wiki for what? s-c-p?
[10:02] <highvoltage> pygi: yep, and teacherspet
[10:02] <cbx33> pygi: I'm just trying to make sense of it all :p
[10:03] <pygi> cbx33: nice :) good luck :)
[10:04] <JaneW> pygi: how are the others looking, cos we had sonme SHOCKING ones last year
[10:04] <JaneW> pygi: and then some promising ones too
[10:07] <pygi> JaneW: well, the ubiquity migrations assistant looks nice
[10:08] <pygi> I am not sure who is to mentor this, but I really think he/she should talk to student to clear some things out before May, 8
[10:08] <JaneW> pygi: let me get the weekly report sorted, will you be around for a couple of hours?
[10:08] <pygi> JaneW: for like 2 more hours 
[10:08] <JaneW> cos I can set aside an hour or 2 to spend with you in say 2/3 hoiurs?
[10:08] <JaneW> dang
[10:09] <pygi> hm, tommorow?
[10:09] <pygi> tommorow I have entire day at my disposal
[10:09] <JaneW> ok, can you give me 30 mins or so, I'll try to juggle priorities?
[10:09] <pygi> oki
[10:10] <JaneW> pygi: ok I must just do monthly company report first
[10:10] <cbx33> pygi: is the control panel https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TeacherTool ?
[10:11] <pygi> cbx33: I think not...but perhaps =P
[10:11] <pygi> I think it's rather this
[10:11] <pygi> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet?highlight=%28TeacherTool%29
[10:12] <pygi> without that light thing :)
[10:13] <cbx33> hehe
[11:02] <Seveas> ogra, poke
[11:19] <cbx33> Seveas: is that poke as in peek/poke :p
[11:20] <Seveas> highvoltage, GOTO 20
[11:21] <pygi> Seveas: INPUT a
[11:21] <pygi>                   *guess what this app do*    fsafs    fsafsa  gaa  gsa o'glja gasj
[11:22] <Seveas> sounds like a welsh curse
[11:22] <pygi> Seveas: or whitespace...but that's same =P
[11:22] <Seveas> hehe
[11:32] <cbx33> is there a basic interpreter for linux?
[11:33] <pygi> I think there is
[11:33] <pygi> not sure tho =P
[11:33] <cbx33> heheh
[11:36] <pygi> hi spacey
[11:36] <pygi> how's the book?
[11:36] <pygi> :)
[11:36] <spacey> didn't have any time this week
[11:36] <pygi> huh :P
[11:36] <pygi> oki doki
[11:37] <spacey> this weekend i'll write at least one chapter
[11:37] <cbx33> spacey: what book you working on?
[11:37] <spacey> when was the deadline again
[11:37] <spacey> cbx33: where we all work on :P
[11:37] <spacey> "the edubuntu cookbook"
[11:37] <pygi> May, 10 :)
[11:37] <cbx33> indeed
[11:37] <spacey> pygi: how is it going for you?
[11:38] <pygi> I'll submit earlier, considering I'll be available only by mail from May, 8-13 
[11:38] <pygi> well, done for the most part 
[11:39] <pygi> after May, 10 we can start polishing it
[11:55] <cbx33> !seen ogra
[11:55] <ubotu> ogra is currently on #edubuntu #ubuntu
[12:00] <highvoltage> cbx33: on of the three most angriest times that i went through, was when some techie deleted all my .bas files from my pc because it took too much space. aparently my parents gave them permission to do it. this was in 1993 though..
[12:00] <cbx33> that sux
[12:00] <cbx33> oh dear
[12:00] <cbx33> um excuse me IRC i sent those two lines in reverse order
[12:20] <cbx33> highvoltage: did you use QBASIC?
[12:21] <highvoltage> cbx33: no way, i used borlands turbobasic
[12:21] <highvoltage> cbx33: before that, gwbasic for a while
[12:21] <highvoltage> cbx33: and before that, i litterally learned to read while typing basic on a zx-spectrum
[12:21] <cbx33> I used to program basic on an atari 800
[12:21] <cbx33> i still have one
[12:21] <highvoltage> you, i read that on one of the pages you posted
[12:21] <cbx33> although it hasn't been booted up in yonks
[12:22] <cbx33> on the blog perhaps?
[12:22] <highvoltage> no, an an article you posted. it was mentioned at the bottem
[12:23] <highvoltage> i mean..
[12:24] <highvoltage> no, on an article you have posted, it was mentioned beneath the article.
[12:24] <cbx33> ah....yes the linuxgazette one
[12:24] <cbx33> did you find it interesting :p
[12:24] <highvoltage> it reminded me of a time when i used to do windows support.
[12:24] <highvoltage> so i could relate to it, at least :)
[12:25] <jsgotangco> hey guys
[12:25] <cbx33> hehe
[12:25] <cbx33> hiya jsgotangco 
[12:28] <highvoltage> hi jsgotangco 
[12:34] <jsgotangco> hi
[12:35] <JaneW> gah that took ages
[12:35] <JaneW> (esp cos I crashed evo several times)
[12:35] <JaneW> and the phone kept ringing
[12:37] <highvoltage> JaneW: *you* crashed evo?
[12:38] <JaneW> highvoltage: it's a skill!
[01:03] <cbx33> ping ogra 
[01:20] <cbx33> afternoon el popey 
[01:21] <cbx33> highvoltage: how deep did you want me to go in cleaning thw iki?
[01:27] <JaneW> damn I totally missed pygi, he is probably mad at me
[01:27] <JaneW> I need a nap
[01:28] <bimberi> JaneW: that dev meeting was in the early hours for you?
[01:31] <JaneW> 4am - 5:20am
[01:31] <JaneW> and then I couldn't get to sleep for ages, and had to get up again at 6:45
[01:32] <bimberi> eek, no wonder you need a nap
[01:32] <JaneW> I am really battling to concentrate now
[01:34] <highvoltage> an my e-mails and voice messages are piling up
[02:00] <lucasvo> http://www.ofset.org/drgeo
[02:01] <lucasvo> anybody know it?
[02:05] <Petaris> nope, but looks interesting
[02:05] <Petaris> While compiling a kernel for my system using the linux-source package and a slightly modified i386 config file I have run into an error: http://phpfi.com/116020
[02:06] <lucasvo> it's a candidate for edubuntu
[02:06] <Petaris> cool
[02:06] <Petaris> I would love to find a few nice softwares
[02:07] <Petaris> one for music
[02:07] <Petaris> a good typing software
[02:07] <lucasvo> I mean , one should suggest it
[02:07] <lucasvo> Petaris: ktouch isn't that bad
[02:08] <Petaris> no, but lacking in content
[02:08] <Petaris> we use gtypist right now
[02:08] <Petaris> it has lots of content
[02:08] <Petaris> and it takes only minimal resources
[02:08] <Petaris> TuxType tanks the server
[02:09] <Petaris> I need to figure out this compile error
[02:10] <lucasvo> Petaris: I don't know, I would go into a general ubuntu channel
[02:10] <Petaris> I asked in ubuntu-kernel but got no response
[02:19] <JaneW> how do you make text smaller ina  wiki? Like a footnote...
[02:35] <bimberi> JaneW: ~-smaller text-~
[02:35] <JaneW> bimberi: cool thanks
[02:35] <bimberi> JaneW: yw :)
[03:00] <Petaris> what is the command to update the ltsp client ssh keys?
[03:01] <Petaris> it was something like ltsp-client-keys update or something
[03:25] <Petaris> ok, now to get sound working
[03:34] <Petaris> ogra: what is that command to rehash the client ssh keys?
[03:35] <lucasvo> Petaris: ltsp-update-sshkeys
[03:35] <Petaris> lucasvo: thanks
[03:35] <highvoltage> Petaris: hi!
[03:35] <lucasvo> Petaris: a little hint: when you don't exactly know the command, enter the beginning(for example: ltsp) and press "tab" twice
[03:36] <lucasvo> lucasvo@supernova:~$ ltsp
[03:36] <lucasvo> ltspadmin            ltsp-build-client    ltspcfg              ltspinfo             ltsp-update-kernels  ltsp-update-sshkeys
[03:36] <Petaris> Hi highvoltage
[03:36] <highvoltage> Petaris: did you get a solution for your problem?
[03:36] <Petaris> lucasvo: cool
[03:36] <Petaris> highvoltage: BenC helped me get it working this morning
[03:37] <highvoltage> Petaris: nice, what did you have to do?
[03:37] <Petaris> we modified the deb of the amd64-k8 package
[03:37] <highvoltage> ah
[03:37] <lucasvo> 21
[03:37] <lucasvo> ups
[03:37] <Petaris> and changed the arch to i386
[03:38] <Petaris> now it is much faster
[03:38] <Petaris> and I have use of all 8 GB of ram and both cpus
[03:45] <Petaris> In sftp is there a recursive flag for the get command?
[04:11] <highvoltage> hi ogra 
[04:11] <ogra> hey highvoltage 
[04:11] <Petaris> Hey ogra
[04:12] <ogra> highvoltage, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFAQ seems to point to a nonexistent "tour" page i just was notified by someone who tried to show the page at linuxtag to a customer
[04:12] <highvoltage> ugh
[04:13] <highvoltage> ogra: i talked to cbx33 last night about our wiki
[04:13] <jsgotangco> that page should also be updated
[04:13] <jsgotangco> we already have a live workstation cd
[04:13] <highvoltage> ogra: it's in a bit of a bad state. he made a page called /EdubuntuWikiCleanup that outlines some of the things that will be updated
[04:14] <ogra> ok
[04:14] <highvoltage> ogra: i'll look at some of the old pages we had, and get similar links on the new sites, just to minimilise on 404's
[04:14] <ikks> Hi, I'm trying to download edubuntu-text via jigdo-lite
[04:14] <highvoltage> ogra: thanks for the notification
[04:14] <ikks> but it fails to download 350 debs.
[04:14] <ogra> highvoltage, thanks for caring :)
[04:14] <ikks> I'm using http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/edubuntu-6.06-beta2-install-amd64.jigdo
[04:15] <highvoltage> :)
[04:15] <ikks> What would be the mirror to a succesful download?
[04:15] <ikks> I tried http://co.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
[04:16] <ogra> hmm, it should work in any case without the co. in front 
[04:16] <ogra> thats the main archive
[04:16] <ogra> but even if i'm the guy responsible for building the isos, i must admit i never used/tried jigdo, so i cant say much 
[04:17] <ikks> Is there a prefered method?
[04:17] <ikks> I've never used bittorrent or p2p software.
[04:17] <ikks> or just a wget?
[04:18] <ikks> of the whole iso would be better?
[04:19] <lucasvo> ikks: bit torrent
[04:19] <lucasvo> it's quite good
[04:19] <ikks> without the co. got the same result :(
[04:19] <ogra> i usually use rsync, but then i have a copy of every iso locally already, rsync wont help if you dont
[04:19] <ogra> bittorrent is the preferred method
[04:19] <lucasvo> fully supported by gnome
[04:19] <ikks> I prefer curses, which would be better?
[04:19] <ikks> bittornado rtorrent
[04:19] <ogra> i guess bittornado is used by many people 
[04:20] <ogra> heh
[04:20] <ogra> dont fail !!
[04:21] <highvoltage> ogra: i'm paying R300 to do it, so i promise you i'll try not to fail :)
[04:21] <highvoltage> i am a bit afraid though
[04:21] <highvoltage> since i don't know what to expect in the exam. there's no specs or material anywhere for it :/
[04:21] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:21] <jsgotangco> that could be scary
[04:22] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: don't worry, if you fail, we could vote you out
[04:22] <JaneW> highvoltage: you should pass easilly I should think
[04:22] <jsgotangco> just like what they do in big brother
[04:22] <jsgotangco> heh!
[04:23] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok :)
[04:23] <highvoltage> JaneW: it probably depends what they ask, most of the things i would imagine they would ask i know how to do, i think.
[04:24] <highvoltage> :p
[04:24] <highvoltage> ok, seeya l8r
[04:40] <ogra> jsgotangco, hey, i'm just fiddling with the ff homepage, do you use an img directory for all distros (ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu) ?
[04:41] <ogra> the css has: background: url('img/edubuntu-logo.png')
[04:42] <jsgotangco> ogra: i just used img, feel free to change
[04:42] <ogra> ok, i just want to have it the same as the others
[04:42] <jsgotangco> are you content with it? should we amend it further?
[04:42] <ogra> btw, all EC members should be edubuntu-members admins now
[04:43] <ogra> it looks wonderful
[04:43] <ogra> i'm totally pleased with it
[04:44] <jsgotangco> hopefully we dont change the colors
[04:45] <ogra> using the chalkboard since 2 days now, i think we could keep the red 
[04:45] <ogra> the shades of the colors are similar, i think it can work
[04:46] <jsgotangco> yeah i kind of dig the red now
[04:46] <ogra> it means luck in asia, doesnt it ? 
[04:46] <jsgotangco> prosperity, luck, yeah things good
[04:46] <ogra> :)
[04:47] <ogra> was one of my arguments to silbs ... but seems it wasnt convincing
[04:47] <ikks> I'm starting to use bittornado and gives me this message :
[04:47] <ikks> :[09:43:26]  rejected by tracker - Requested download is not authorized for use with this tracker.
[04:47] <ikks> what would it be?
[04:47] <ikks> I'm using http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/edubuntu-6.06-beta2-install-amd64.iso.torrent
[04:48] <ikks> file:     edubuntu-6.06-beta2-install-amd64.iso
[04:48] <ikks>  size:     729,114,624 (695.34 MiB)
[04:51] <lucasvo> ikks: why don't you use the gnome bittorerent?
[04:51] <lucasvo> or the official bittorrent?
[04:51] <ikks> I'm away from the computer where I'm trying to fetch.
[04:51] <ikks> Don't have a fast connection to X or VNC.
[04:52] <ikks> just plain text over ssh :)
[04:55] <lucasvo> | error(s): [16:55:21]  rejected by tracker - Requested download is not authorized for use with this tracker.                                                |
[04:55] <lucasvo> I get the same error
[04:56] <ikks> I haven't touched any conf. file.
[04:56] <ikks> an lsof -i gives 
[04:56] <ikks> btdownloa 8485        igor    4u  IPv4  20229       TCP *:28277 (LISTEN)
[04:57] <ikks> guess not a firewall problem on my machine.
[04:57] <lucasvo> no
[05:00] <ikks> lucasvo do you have a torrent file that you have used to download trough bittornado?
[05:02] <lucasvo> ikks: 16:47 < ikks> I'm using http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/edubuntu-6.06-beta2-install-amd64.iso.torrent
[05:03] <Petaris> Where are the openoffice icons kept?
[05:04] <Petaris> I can't seem to find them in /usr/share/icons or /usr/share/pixmaps
[05:04] <ikks> sorry lucasvo, I meant downloading succesfully a file with bittornado?
[05:05] <lucasvo> ikks: yes
[05:08] <ikks> maybe my client is too old?
[05:08] <ikks> 0.3.13 this is on amd64 Debian testing.
[05:17] <ikks> no luck with rtracker :(
[05:18] <ikks> thx :)
[05:22] <Petaris> Anyone have time to help me debug sound?
[05:43] <cbx33> finally I'm back
[05:43] <cbx33> my rented server died
[05:43] <cbx33> and now all the people I wanted to talk to have gone
[05:44] <cbx33> ping Bluekuja 
[05:44] <cbx33> !seen ogra
[05:44] <ubotu> ogra is currently on #edubuntu (2h 30m 8s) #ubuntu (2h 30m 8s)
[05:49] <jsgotangco_> heh
[05:50] <cbx33> hi jsgotangco_ 
[05:51] <jsgotangco_> hey
[05:51] <cbx33> going good today?
[05:52] <cbx33> Right y'all I'm off I'll be back later on
[05:53] <cbx33> anyone working on ESA remember feature freeze by the end of the day
[05:54] <Seveas> ogra, your idle time is 20 seconds so I know you're here 
[05:55] <ogra> Seveas, yes i am, but i try to keep away from IRC as much as i can, i'm very swamped and far behind schedule with much stuff
[05:56] <Seveas> ogra, ok, just a quick yes/no question: is edubuntu mnembership equivalent to Ubuntu membership, ie: with mail addresses and cloaks etc..?
[06:03] <ogra> Seveas, yes
[06:03] <Petaris> Hi highvoltage
[06:03] <highvoltage> hi Petaris 
[06:03] <ogra> even i didnt check if it works yet, we all should have @edubuntu.org adresses 
[06:04] <ogra> (additionaly to the ubuntu.com one)
[06:04] <ogra> cloaks can just be the ubuntu cloaks i guess
[06:04] <ogra> no need for anything extra
[06:04] <ogra> do you need noification about new members for that ? 
[06:05] <ogra> *notification
[06:05] <Petaris> ogra: I'm back to working on sound
[06:05] <edubuntugirl> hello world
[06:05] <Petaris> still get a device doesn't exist error
[06:05] <Petaris> Hi edubuntugirl
[06:05] <edubuntugirl> sup, Petaris!
[06:05] <pips1> hi folks
[06:05] <highvoltage> hi pips1 
[06:06] <Petaris> hello pips1
[06:06] <pips1> hey highvoltage !
[06:06] <pips1> got your mail
[06:06] <highvoltage> you did?
[06:06] <pips1> guys, I got a debian newb question for you...
[06:06] <highvoltage> fire away!
[06:06] <pips1> I am running dapper beta 2 on a test server
[06:07] <pips1> I'm interested in a package from universe... that package seems to being worked on as we speak, i.e. they are still packaging some dependencies...
[06:09] <pips1> so... I can install that version because of the missing dependency-packages.. BUT can I install the second-last package instead? Is it possible and how do I now what version number is the "second-latest" so I can enter that version number in my apt-get command?
[06:09] <pips1> sorry s/I can/I can't/
[06:10] <highvoltage> usually not, they don't keep a complete arvhive of all the incremental changes in unstable
[06:10] <highvoltage> what do you want to install?
[06:10] <pips1> ah
[06:10] <pips1> zope-cps
[06:11] <pips1> highvoltage, so... I can't for run the version of zope-cps from breezy in dapper?
[06:12] <pips1> argh, s/I can't for run/I can't run/
[06:12] <highvoltage> hmm.. i'm not at all familiar with zope-cps :/
[06:14] <pips1> well, I don't think you need to be familiar with zope-cps... I mean: is it *generally* possible to install and run an older package? (with apt-get)
[06:14] <pips1> edubuntugirl, say something! there is so much silence :-)
[06:14] <edubuntugirl> pips1: sure thing
[06:14] <pips1> :-)
[06:14] <pips1> I like edubuntugirl, she is so cool
[06:15] <firp> edubuntugirl how's the weather like?
[06:15] <edubuntugirl> firp: what?
[06:15] <pips1> no takers for my question? anyone? ;-)
[06:16] <highvoltage> pips1: it's possible, strictly speaking, to install the package from breezy, but i think it will have many dependencies to other older versions, which would make it very difficult
[06:16] <pips1> right, i c
[06:16] <pips1> yeah, I figured that, and zope-cps has *tons* of dependencies, believe me :-)
[06:17] <pips1> that's why I was hoping it would be possible with apt-get in the first place... :-)
[06:17] <pips1> cheers!
[06:21] <Petaris> Is there a log that the clients write to when they boot?
[06:21] <Petaris> some thing that I can check to see if esound is starting
[06:38] <jsgotangco_> ciao
[06:41] <Sergi0> is it possible to install dapper on a edubuntu pxe client, who only can boot from pxe? so no cdrom/floppy acces? the client has only hdd/network?
[06:41] <Sergi0> i've got this great laptop, but no internal cdrom
[06:42] <highvoltage> what is apt-file? i don't have it installed, but it's mentioned at http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/certification/pro
[06:42] <ogra> highvoltage, it searches for files in packages
[06:43] <ogra> install it, its helpful if you develop and search for a lib or something
[06:51] <highvoltage> ogra: ok. how is it different from dpkg -S?
[06:52] <ogra> it works on the whole archive
[06:52] <ogra> dpkg -S works only for installed packages
[06:53] <ogra> (which doesnt help if you search the package containing libfoo which is missing to compile some stuff)
[06:53] <Nixonp> hola
[06:53] <ogra> (emphasis on missing here)
[06:54] <Petaris> ogra: When I login on the clients the first time the desktop background is all screwed up
[06:54] <Petaris> if I logout and log back in its fixed
[06:54] <Petaris> is this a known issue?
[06:54] <ogra> sounds like a videocard problem 
[06:55] <ogra> did you try setting 16bit in lts.conf (saves a lot of bandwith as well)
[06:55] <ogra> X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
[06:55] <Petaris> no
[06:56] <Petaris> that would reduce screen quality quite a bit wouldn't it?
[06:56] <ogra> i have one client in my lab where the splash is totally broken if i run it with 24bit colors, but it works fine with 16
[06:56] <ogra> (gnome splash )
[06:57] <HedgeMage> hi, all
[06:57] <ogra> hey HedgeMage 
[06:57] <Petaris> hrm
[06:58] <Petaris> ogra: I am also seeing that I need to rehash the ssh keys fairly often
[06:58] <pips1> ogra, the page http://packages.qa.debian.org/z/zope-cps.html mentions a 'Debian/Ubuntu Zope Team' (pkg-zope-developers@lists.alioth.debian.org), do you know who I could talk to on IRC?
[06:59] <ogra> pips1, try doko
[06:59] <pips1> ogra, cheers
[06:59] <pips1> ogra, what channel? 
[06:59] <ogra> Petaris, only if you change the server ip
[06:59] <ogra> pips1, -devel 
[06:59] <pips1> ok
[06:59] <highvoltage> hey HedgeMage 
[07:00] <ogra> pips1, ajmitch would be another candidate if doko isnt around
[07:00] <HedgeMage> hi ogra, highvoltage 
[07:02] <Petaris> ogra: haven't touched the server ip
[07:02] <ogra> then you dont need to rehash
[07:02] <Petaris> it won't let me loging until I do
[07:02] <Petaris> s/loging/log in
[07:02] <ogra> there must be something else wrong
[07:03] <Petaris> probably
[07:03] <Petaris> also got sound working sortof
[07:03] <ogra> if the server has a static ip that doesnt change, why should the client need a new key :)
[07:03] <Petaris> I had to set the esd server to the client ip address
[07:03] <ogra> thats done automatically normally
[07:03] <Petaris> ogra: I don't know
[07:04] <pips1> ogra, cheers!
[07:04] <Petaris> Whats done automatically?
[07:04] <ogra> ESPEAKER should be set to the clients ip all the time
[07:04] <Petaris> hrm
[07:04] <ogra> try: env 
[07:04] <ogra> in a terminal
[07:04] <ogra> (on the client)
[07:05] <ogra> it should list ESPEAKER
[07:05] <ogra> and its value indeed
[07:05] <Petaris> nope
[07:05] <Petaris> not even listed
[07:05] <ogra> in a gnome terminal ?
[07:05] <ogra> and you have SOUND=True in the lts.conf ?
[07:05] <Petaris> yep
[07:06] <ogra> weird, since ESPEAKER is set in the login manager even before you log in, its part of the login command
[07:06] <Petaris> http://phpfi.com/116064
[07:07] <Petaris> there is the only thing not commented in lts.conf
[07:07] <ogra> please dont set X_MOUSE_DEVICE unless you have a serial mouse
[07:07] <ogra> where did you get this lts.conf
[07:07] <Petaris> should I comment all of the mouse stuff
[07:07] <ogra> there is a lot of unneeded stuff in there
[07:08] <Petaris> for my examples
[07:08] <ogra> dont set RUNLEVEL
[07:08] <ogra> neither MOUSE_PROTOCOL
[07:08] <Petaris> /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts.conf
[07:08] <Petaris> thats where I got it
[07:08] <ogra> XSERVER=auto is the default, not needed
[07:09] <ogra> yeah, i need to update the docs still, sorry, mdz initially imported the ltsp.org docs
[07:09] <Petaris> ahh
[07:09] <Petaris> What should be in my lts.conf file
[07:09] <Petaris> what should it look like
[07:09] <ogra> apart from SOUND there is nothing useful in that file :)
[07:10] <ogra> i'm wondering if thats the problem with booting to console
[07:10] <ogra> (the RUNLEVEL entry)
[07:10] <ogra> it shouldnt be read, but well ...
[07:11] <Petaris> so this should work:
[07:11] <Petaris> [Default] 
[07:11] <Petaris> SERVER  =       192.168.0.1
[07:11] <Petaris> SOUND   =       TRUE
[07:11] <ogra> drop SERVER
[07:11] <ogra> unless its a differnt machine
[07:11] <ogra> i.e. not the one you boot from
[07:11] <Petaris> keep [Default]  ?
[07:11] <ogra> yep
[07:12] <Petaris> ok
[07:12] <Petaris> let me reboot the client
[07:12] <ogra> and probably add X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
[07:12] <Petaris> let me try this bit first
[07:13] <ogra> i've never seen the boot problem before, but have a bug open and heard it more often already ... lets see if you land on a gui+
[07:13] <Petaris> right
[07:13] <Petaris> nope
[07:14] <Petaris> but its started the gui
[07:14] <ogra> ?
[07:14] <Petaris> had to alt+f7 to it
[07:14] <ogra> hmm
[07:14] <ogra> strange
[07:14] <ogra> ok, so i'll still have to dig that bug next week if i'm home
[07:14] <Petaris> wallpaper didn't go crazy this time though
[07:15] <ogra> with or without 16bit forced #
[07:15] <ogra> ?
[07:15] <Petaris> let me check for espeaker
[07:15] <Petaris> nope, still not there
[07:16] <Petaris> is it SOUND=TRUE or SOUND=Y
[07:16] <Petaris> I used TRUE
[07:16] <ogra> True
[07:16] <ogra> with capital T
[07:17] <Petaris> but the rest lowercase?
[07:17] <ogra> thats how i use it
[07:17] <Petaris> ok, let me try that
[07:20] <ogra> you can set the rootpw in the client chroot as i explained to you yesterday and have a look at /var/log/ldm.log on the client 
[07:20] <ogra> there should be a trace of sound stuff
[07:20] <Petaris> still no espeaker
[07:20] <Petaris> ok
[07:20] <Petaris> sec
[07:21] <Petaris> the log is empty
[07:21] <ogra> grep for sound in that file
[07:21] <ogra> oh, yes
[07:21] <ogra> do one login attempt :)
[07:21] <Petaris> ok
[07:21] <ogra> it will only log if something happens indeed
[07:22] <Petaris> ok, now theres stuff in it
[07:22] <ogra> now grep for the srting sound
[07:22] <ogra> *string
[07:23] <Petaris> right at the top info: Not enabling sound support.
[07:23] <ogra> aha
[07:24] <Petaris> but it doesn't say why
[07:26] <ogra> can you try setting SOUND_DAEMON=esd in lts.conf ?
[07:26] <ogra> i suspect there is something wrong with: self.sound_daemon = get_config('SOUND_DAEMON') or 'esd'
[07:27] <ogra> it picks up the SOUND variable (else you wouldnt see the message at all)
[07:27] <Petaris> a ps -A shows esd is running
[07:27] <Petaris> ok
[07:28] <Petaris> made the change
[07:28] <Petaris> rebooting the client
[07:29] <ogra> esd is running, but self.sound_daemon isnt set in the code, what causes ESPEAKER not to be set
[07:29] <Petaris> ahh
[07:31] <Petaris> still no espeaker
[07:31] <ogra>                 case "$SOUND_DAEMON" in
[07:31] <ogra>             esd|'') # The default when no value is set
[07:31] <ogra>                 /usr/bin/esd -nobeeps -public -tcp &
[07:31] <ogra>                 ;;
[07:31] <ogra> thats from the ltsp-client initscript :)
[07:31] <ogra> there it gets started if nothing is set
[07:31] <Petaris> hrm
[07:31] <ogra> (nothing apart from SOUND)
[07:32] <ogra> what does ldm.log say ?
[07:32] <Petaris> same thing
[07:32] <Petaris> here is my lts.conf file: 
[07:32] <Petaris> [Default] 
[07:32] <Petaris> SOUND=True
[07:32] <Petaris> SOUND_DAEMON=esd
[07:32] <ogra> hmm, i see the prob i think
[07:32] <Petaris> oh?
[07:33] <Petaris> do tell
[07:33] <ogra> can you try editing /usr/sbin/ldm 
[07:33] <Petaris> on what?
[07:33] <ogra> the client 
[07:33] <ogra> err
[07:33] <Petaris> the server or in the client chroot
[07:33] <ogra> nope in the chroot
[07:33] <Petaris> ok
[07:33] <ogra> and change
[07:33] <ogra> self.use_sound = get_config_bool('SOUND')
[07:33] <ogra> to
[07:33] <ogra> self.use_sound = get_config('SOUND')
[07:34] <ogra> (then you can even set SOUND=blah in lts.conf and it should work)
[07:34] <ogra> the code in the initscript doesnt care if its boolean or not, but the code in ldm does
[07:34] <ogra> making them the same should fix it
[07:35] <Petaris> ok
[07:35] <Petaris> let me reboot the client
[07:37] <Petaris> espeaker still isn't set
[07:37] <ogra> whats the log saying
[07:38] <ogra> oh, did you unset SOUND_DAEMON in lts.conf again ?
[07:38] <Petaris> info: Enabling esd sound support.
[07:38] <Petaris> yea
[07:38] <ogra> aha "
[07:38] <ogra> !
[07:38] <ubotu> ogra: No idea, try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
[07:38] <Petaris> er, yeah
[07:39] <ogra> then ESPEAKER *must* be set
[07:39] <Petaris> set where?
[07:39] <ogra> env
[07:39] <Petaris> env doesn't show it
[07:39] <ogra> where do you run env exactly ?
[07:39] <ogra> and when ? 
[07:40] <Petaris> on the client'
[07:40] <ogra> yep
[07:40] <ogra> after you logged in to a session i hope 
[07:40] <Petaris> loged into the client
[07:40] <Petaris> yep, after I logged in to xfce
[07:40] <ogra> and you run it in a xfce terminal ? 
[07:41] <Petaris> no
[07:41] <ogra> try that :)
[07:41] <Petaris> I run it on the client itself
[07:41] <ogra> espeaker is needed on the server in your session, not on the client :)
[07:41] <Petaris> ahhh
[07:41] <Petaris> its there
[07:41] <Petaris> right
[07:41] <Petaris> duh
[07:41] <ogra> (i know sound support is confusing, i had to grok that myself first)
[07:42] <ogra> great
[07:42] <Petaris> let me try it out
[07:42] <ogra> now xmms wih esd output plugin should just work
[07:42] <ogra> hey mdz 
[07:42] <mdz> morning
[07:43] <edubuntugirl> morning mdz 
[07:44] <mdz> edubuntugirl: are you a bot?
[07:44] <edubuntugirl> mdz: what?
[07:44] <mdz> that's a yes
[07:44] <ogra> yes, she is
[07:44] <ogra> :)
[07:44] <highvoltage> heh :)
[07:44] <ogra> edubuntugirl, mdz
[07:44] <edubuntugirl> mdz is an opportunistic troublemaker, see https://launchpad.net/people/mdz
[07:44] <mdz> how come nobody programs bots to answer that question?
[07:44] <edubuntugirl> i am programmed to say that, but i prefer to be in denial
[07:45] <HedgeMage> lol
[07:45] <edubuntugirl> i am not a bot, i am a real girl, even though I am 2D, and very pale
[07:45] <ogra> Petaris, so thanks for that fruitful debugging, i'll fix it in my next upload ... (i didnt like the bool stuff pere did there from the beginning)
[07:46] <Petaris> ogra: it works but is a little crappy on quality if you do anything else on the system
[07:46] <Petaris> at least with vlc
[07:47] <ogra> audio only ? 
[07:47] <Petaris> xmms is a little better
[07:47] <Petaris> yeah
[07:47] <Bluekuja> hi highvoltage, hi ogra, hi mdz
[07:47] <ogra> (dont expect video to work)
[07:47] <Petaris> just crackles in the audio
[07:47] <Petaris> oh?
[07:47] <highvoltage> hey Bluekuja 
[07:47] <ogra> hmm, i didnt test xmms at all
[07:47] <Petaris> at all you mean?
[07:47] <edubuntugirl> Bluekuja: *ahem*
[07:47] <Bluekuja> edubuntugirl: hi, i was missing you
[07:47] <edubuntugirl> Bluekuja: gotcha
[07:48] <ogra> only the gstreamer based progs like totem and rhythmbox
[07:48] <Petaris> hrm
[07:48] <Bluekuja> jon one week for the edubuntu italian forum ready
[07:48] <Bluekuja> also web site
[07:48] <ogra> Petaris, i'll do more tests next week
[07:48] <Bluekuja> with a new design
[07:48] <Petaris> ogra: it would be cool if the xfce mixer/volume control would work with esd
[07:48] <highvoltage> how's the italian team coming along?
[07:48] <ogra> Petaris, that neither works in gnome :/
[07:49] <Petaris> ogra: bummer
[07:49] <ogra> you'd need /dev/mixer access for it
[07:49] <Petaris> right
[07:49] <ogra> i want to go a new path in eft or eft+1 for sound
[07:49] <Bluekuja> really good highvoltage, there is a new member that is working with me too
[07:49] <Petaris> I would still like to see audio pushed fully to the client
[07:49] <Bluekuja> but as i said soon there will be website, forum and something more
[07:50] <ogra> i had no probs with the gnome apps at all 
[07:50] <Petaris> like alsa running on the client and pointing to a local /dev/dsp
[07:50] <Bluekuja> its coming great hehe
[07:50] <highvoltage> Bluekuja: how did it go with those schools you've been talking too?
[07:50] <ogra> either alsa or even something way more weird i'm still breeding on :)
[07:50] <cbx33> boo !
[07:51] <Bluekuja> I'm developing the idea on my school
[07:51] <highvoltage> cbx33: hi. another thing that needs to be checked on the wiki is the links
[07:51] <Bluekuja> talking with webmaster
[07:51] <Bluekuja> to add links and pages of edubuntu
[07:51] <ogra> (like finding a way to cleanly access /dev of the client through network)
[07:51] <Bluekuja> in the school site
[07:51] <Bluekuja> hi pete
[07:51] <highvoltage> cbx33: ogra says that someone clicked on a link from a wiki page, and it linked to a page that doesn't exist anymore :/
[07:51] <Petaris> ogra: I was thinking alsa as nearly everything supports it
[07:52] <Petaris> ogra: If you get a chance listen to audio on a client and drag a window around
[07:52] <ogra> Petaris, alsa is a driver set, not a sound daemon with network capabilitys
[07:52] <Petaris> you will see what I mean about the crackles
[07:52] <ogra> did you set your display to 16bit ? 
[07:52] <Petaris> no
[07:52] <ogra> as i asked ? :)
[07:52] <ogra> try that 
[07:52] <Petaris> ok
[07:52] <ogra> it saves huge amounts of bandwith
[07:52] <cbx33> highvoltage, I plan on checking all the links in the wiki later on
[07:52] <Petaris> what was the variable again?
[07:52] <highvoltage> cbx33: nice
[07:53] <Bluekuja> highvoltage: i hope to have edubuntu installed for my school soon, to give the possiiblity to use it
[07:53] <ogra> Petaris, X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
[07:53] <highvoltage> Bluekuja: how is the italian translations in ed/ubuntu? are you going to use it in italian, or english?
[07:54] <Petaris> ogra: ok, let me try that
[07:54] <highvoltage> hmmm.. i don't have X_COLOR_DEPTH in my example lts.conf
[07:54] <ogra> put it in there
[07:54] <Bluekuja> highvoltage: well, italian translations are all almost complete, it will depend by school staff decision, maybe english maybe italian 
[07:54] <ogra> and please drop all the mouse stuff
[07:55] <Bluekuja> highvoltage: if they accept my idea, well i'll have to do a great work to install the whole network
[07:55] <Bluekuja> highvoltage: something like 120 pc
[07:56] <highvoltage> ogra: ok, changing now
[07:56] <highvoltage> Bluekuja: wow, that's a big setup!
[07:56] <ogra> highvoltage, mouse options are only needed for serial mice, all other models should be autodetected
[07:56] <Petaris> ogra: the screen doesn't look any different
[07:56] <Bluekuja> highvoltage: yep :) , well i think that if it will be done, all newspaper will talk about it in my region
[07:57] <Bluekuja> highvoltage: so a lot of advocacy
[07:57] <Petaris> hrm
[07:58] <Petaris> I need to make this volume louder too
[08:01] <highvoltage> ogra: so, if it's a serial mouse, am I right that the user needs to set X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL to "microsoft", and X_MOUSE_DEVICE to something such as "/dev/ttyS0"?
[08:01] <froud> highvoltage: ping
[08:01] <highvoltage> froud: pong
[08:01] <ogra> highvoltage, yep
[08:01] <highvoltage> ogra: ok, thanks
[08:02] <ogra> highvoltage, sudo apt-get install inputattach && man inputattach
[08:02] <froud> highvoltage: we have a go on the tuxlab cookbook vvvvvvv2
[08:02] <ogra> that will show all options possible for the protocol in case you want to list them
[08:03] <froud> highvoltage: we start merging the TSF stuff next week
[08:03] <ogra> froud, not the edubuntu cookbook ? shame on you !
[08:03] <ogra> :)
[08:03] <ogra> hi btw
[08:03] <froud> good to see you
[08:03] <ogra> same here :)
[08:04] <ogra> and its not even hugday :)
[08:04] <Bluekuja> pete
[08:04] <froud> highvoltage: good news I will be installing an edubuntu lab at my Nursery School
[08:04] <cbx33> hi Bluekuja 
[08:04] <Bluekuja> hi man
[08:04] <Bluekuja> im writing
[08:04] <froud> http://www.dobbydaycare.co.za
[08:04] <Bluekuja> a mail to y school master
[08:05] <froud> we're talking nursery school here
[08:05] <Bluekuja> can i put the link to our work?
[08:05] <Bluekuja> i know that is not finished but he can create in his mind an idea
[08:05] <Bluekuja> what do you think?
[08:05] <cbx33> um, what do you think highvoltage 
[08:05] <highvoltage> froud: nice :)
[08:06] <cbx33> i think it should be ok, dpeends if highvoltage and ogra would prefer us to keep non-complete information back
[08:06] <froud> highvoltage: any cases of edubuntu in a kindergarten
[08:06] <highvoltage> ogra: ok
[08:06] <Bluekuja> highvoltage,ogra: what do you think?
[08:07] <highvoltage> cbx33: about what? sorry, i might have missed something, heavily multitasking here :)
[08:08] <cbx33> sorry highvoltage whether to be able to link to unfinished ESA document yet
[08:08] <Bluekuja> highvoltage: I'm writing to my school master
[08:08] <Bluekuja> highvoltage: It would be nice for him to take a look at some previews
[08:08] <ogra> cbx33, put a "work in progress" at the top and link it i'd say :)
[08:08] <cbx33> np ogra 
[08:08] <highvoltage> froud: hilton's youngest kid had our skubuntu setup at their pre-primary school
[08:08] <cbx33> ok Bluekuja you're good to go
[08:08] <Bluekuja> ok great
[08:09] <highvoltage> froud: it was non-tsf, so i don't have the exact status on it, but it has been done before
[08:10] <highvoltage> cbx33: well, someone on the ldp project has a quote in their signature that says "Documentation is like sex. When it's good, it's really, really good. When it's bad, it's better than nothing." so if there's nothing else to link to, i suggest you link to what's available atm :)
[08:10] <cbx33> heheh
[08:10] <cbx33> good p[oint
[08:10] <cbx33> Bluekuja, and I are hopefully freezing most of the features in the doc tongiht anyway
[08:11] <cbx33> I have 3 more sections to add
[08:11] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: hehehe
[08:11] <ogra> DONT FORGET THAT THE SCREENSHOTS ARENT FINAL
[08:11] <ogra> OOPS
[08:11] <HedgeMage> on that note, I'm taking TT to the playground.. be back later.
[08:11] <ogra> sorry for the caps
[08:11] <froud> highvoltage: would be interesting to learn more, I will speak with Hilton
[08:11] <cbx33> ogra, yes, the screenshots are not final
[08:12] <ogra> we'll need the final artwork first
[08:12] <highvoltage> froud: kewl :)
[08:12] <ogra> (which i still have no ETA for)
[08:12] <highvoltage> at least you have the freeze dates :)
[08:12] <ogra> well
[08:13] <ogra> the ubuntu freeze dates, yes, i'm not sure silbs or the agency feel bound to it
[08:13] <Petaris> hrm
[08:13] <Petaris> I need my kernel headers
[08:13] <highvoltage> ogra: this is what i'm going to base our lts.conf doc on, can you tell me if it's technically sound? http://jonathancarter.co.za/files/lts.conf
[08:13] <cbx33> ogra, not ETA on that then...
[08:14] <cbx33> I want to start creating the pdf soon as, so when you find out drop me a mail or something
[08:14] <ogra> highvoltage, make XSERVER optional, we dont need it normally
[08:14] <highvoltage> ok
[08:14] <ogra> i'm also not sure 15 is a good default depth 
[08:14] <ogra> 16 will be more common
[08:15] <highvoltage> ooh, i meant to say 16
[08:15] <ogra> RCFILE is supported as a variable, but we dont have floppyd or anything else like that
[08:16] <highvoltage> ah, right. pity we don't have floppyd. should i just take the RCFILE example out for now? i think it's unlikely that someone will use it for this release.
[08:16] <ogra> and my main target was to list all possible options in the lts.conf, lest see if i come around to it before release (its a lot of stuff), else i'll happily go with that one 
[08:17] <ogra> (everything is better than the current one which is taken from ltsp.org and has a lot of unused stuff)
[08:19] <highvoltage> ok, i'll get that ltspparams page and try to get most of that in the example file, then you can tell me what i still miss
[08:19] <ogra> heh, the ltspparams page is breezy ... well outdated :)
[08:19] <ogra> but good for a start indeed :)
[08:21] <Bluekuja> cbx33: done
[08:21] <Bluekuja> i've sent the mail
[08:21] <highvoltage> ogra: does the server need additional config for SYSLOG_HOST to work?
[08:21] <cbx33> nice Bluekuja 
[08:22] <Bluekuja> soon ill receive the answer
[08:22] <Bluekuja> pete i was watching the page
[08:23] <Bluekuja> its really really GREAT now
[08:23] <Bluekuja> you cand find everything
[08:23] <Bluekuja> inside it
[08:23] <Bluekuja> every question can be answered therwe
[08:23] <Bluekuja> *there
[08:24] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: wb :)
[08:24] <pygi> o HedgeMage
[08:25] <Bluekuja> LaserJock: ping
[08:26] <LaserJock> hi Bluekuja 
[08:26] <Bluekuja> hi jordan
[08:26] <Bluekuja> i have sent the page to my school master
[08:26] <Bluekuja> so he can get all informations that he need 
[08:27] <ogra> highvoltage, yes, syslogd must accept network connections for that
[08:27] <Bluekuja> ill update you with the answer
[08:27] <LaserJock> Bluekuja: cool
[08:27] <Bluekuja> ;)
[08:30] <LaserJock> so how are the app descriptions coming along?
[08:30] <Bluekuja> well, in the planning page we have made a list of apps that need to be done
[08:31] <Bluekuja> so check here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy/Planning
[08:31] <Bluekuja> i think we will have that rdy for tomorrow
[08:31] <LaserJock> ok, cool
[08:31] <Bluekuja> yep, 
[08:32] <Bluekuja> i go to eat
[08:32] <Bluekuja> cya later
[08:32] <LaserJock> I'll try to finish the categorization on EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy/LaserJock
[08:32] <Bluekuja> great
[08:32] <ogra> hey Amaranth 
[08:32] <Bluekuja> hi amaranth
[08:32] <Amaranth> ogra: even though i don't use it ;)
[08:33] <pygi> hello Amaranth =P
[08:33] <Amaranth> hi
[08:33] <Amaranth> pygi: does the app look good now?
[08:33] <ogra> guys Amaranth is goinf for packaging enhancing and making willow rock for us in a SoC project (for anyone who doesnt know yet)
[08:33] <ogra> *going
[08:34] <highvoltage> ogra: on a default installation, would specifying SYSLOG_HOST = server.ip be enough?
[08:34] <ogra> so we might have the long awaited content filter solution from him :)
[08:34] <Amaranth> ogra: and in my spare time i'll be taking over the world
[08:34] <ogra> highvoltage, for the client, yes
[08:34] <ogra> but the server still needs to be set up to accept network connections 
[08:35] <Amaranth> it's got a launchpad spec link now :)
[08:35] <highvoltage> ogra: i've updated that lts.conf file. do you know where i can look for more parameters for the dapper setup?
[08:36] <ogra> highvoltage, use the code luke ;)
[08:36] <pygi> Amaranth: bah, I saw that :)
[08:36] <pygi> Amaranth: yes, it's good then :)
[08:36] <Amaranth> pygi: cool
[08:36] <Amaranth> never got a response on if the updates were good yesterday, thought it might need another poke :)
[08:36] <ogra> highvoltage, the ltsp-client-setup initscript has many of them, but some are debian specific and not used for ubuntu
[08:36] <highvoltage> ogra: :)
[08:36] <highvoltage> ogra: i'm looking at the LTSP.org config file for pointers
[08:36] <pygi> Amaranth: huh, I haven't responded? sorry :-/
[08:37] <highvoltage> ogra: do we support the 'include' part? they have, for example, an 'include /etc/lts.conf.workstations'
[08:37] <ogra> nope
[08:38] <highvoltage> and I suppose we wouldn't have a use for LOCAL_APPS atm?
[08:38] <ogra> good idea for an eft enhancement, thats easy to implement
[08:38] <ogra> nope
[08:38] <pygi> ogra: I guess you should rank Amaranth's app, or will you wait for May,8?
[08:38] <ogra> rank ? where ?
[08:39] <highvoltage> ogra: yeah, would be nice to have a seperate file for client-specific settings :)
[08:39] <pygi> ogra: well, the mentors page? :)
[08:39] <highvoltage> ogra: and NIS_DOMAIN and NIS_SERVER?
[08:40] <ogra> grep NIS /opt/ltsp/.....init.d/???ltsp-client-setup
[08:40] <Amaranth> wow i'm in too many channels :P
[08:40] <ogra> ;)
[08:40] <Amaranth> 21
[08:40] <pygi> ogra: I think you know where that would be :)
[08:41] <LaserJock> Amaranth: crimsun says he is in like >40 channels, or something insane liek that
[08:42] <Amaranth> wow
[08:42] <highvoltage> hmmm.. grep: /opt/ltsp/.....init.d/???ltsp-client-setup: No such file or directory
[08:42] <ogra> pygi, not really since i have other things to do than thinking about SoC usually ... its annoying enough that they autosubscribe you to a high tryffic ML if you mentor
[08:43] <highvoltage> ogra: are you involved with SoC this year?
[08:43] <ogra> its really a bad timing 
[08:43] <pygi> ogra: want me to give you a link?
[08:43] <ogra> highvoltage, i didnt want, but Amaranth's offer for willow convinced me
[08:43] <ogra> pygi, *sigh* yes
[08:44] <Amaranth> heh
[08:44] <Amaranth> until they fixed the site somewhat i had to guess at the student page
[08:44] <pygi> ogra: just say you wanna mentor it
[08:44] <pygi> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=alleykat@gmail.com:f1542f19:7da5ed5f
[08:44] <highvoltage> Amaranth: you're good!
[08:44] <highvoltage> Amaranth: you should mentor us into becoming as good in persuasion as you are :)
[08:44] <pygi> Amaranth: basicly, I think you are skilled enough so even if some other people apply, you'll probably get the project
[08:44] <Amaranth> pygi: cool
[08:45] <Amaranth> i was going to be funny and put pymusique on there too, but decided not to :)
[08:45] <pygi> Amaranth: heh :)
[08:45] <Amaranth> some people don't seem to like that app
[08:47] <pygi> Amaranth: :)
[08:47] <pygi> ogra: and basicly when you unsubscribe yourself from list, they do it again =P
[08:48] <ogra> yep, i heard that ... for now i created a folder where 400 unread mails wait now ...
[08:48] <pygi> ogra: ah, well, don't worry about it anyway :)
[08:48] <ogra> ok, applied to mentor it :)
[08:48] <pygi> just erase it =P
[08:48] <pygi> ogra: nice :)
[08:48] <pygi> I'll now vote on it, so we get more votes on that application
[08:49] <ogra> its already in the top three :)
[08:49] <pygi> ogra: Screen magnifier got twice X 4 points because same mentor voted twice !!! :)
[08:49] <pygi> and the application is bad as I seem it :-/
[08:50] <ogra> disqualified !
[08:50] <pygi> see*
[08:50] <ogra> :)
[08:50] <pygi> ogra: well, you could do that =P
[08:50] <ogra> nah, i dont cheat
[08:50] <ogra> i'm out of school too long already :)
[08:50] <pygi> what's irc nick  for Henrik? I should go talk to him
[08:50] <ogra> heno
[08:51] <pygi> hm,oki
[08:51] <pygi> he's not here now
[08:51] <pygi> I'll just bug him later :)
[08:51] <ogra> he's rarely here, look in -devel
[08:52] <highvoltage> pygi: he's quite quick on e-mail though, henrik@ubuntu.com
[08:52] <pygi> ogra: he's not on freenode :)
[08:52] <pygi> highvoltage: oki, thanks :)
[08:52] <Amaranth> top 3? neat
[08:53] <pygi> Amaranth: well, basicly, you can count you got urself a project :)
[08:53] <cbx33> is there a live cd for xubuntu yet?
[08:53] <ogra> i think so, yes
[08:53] <ogra> als janimo in -devel
[08:53] <ogra> *ask
[08:53] <cbx33> ok
[08:53] <Amaranth> woo, that's a relief
[08:54] <Amaranth> i was looking for other things to apply for in case this didn't work
[08:54] <Amaranth> hey, i get to modify it again
[08:54] <ogra> you didnt trust me eh ? :)
[08:54] <Amaranth> because ogra commented on it
[08:54] <pygi> ogra: basicly, the thing why I would like that situation to sort out is because we don't have unlimited slots
[08:54] <pygi> ogra: and we want only high-quality applications
[08:55] <pygi> ogra: and I feel the one about screen magnifier isn't good :-/
[08:55] <highvoltage> ogra: since you mentioned janimo, if there were theoretically enough space on the CD, would it be a lot of work to include Xfce for Edubuntu?
[08:55] <ogra> yep i know but its a very bad time of the release for SoC to start 
[08:55] <pygi> ogra: http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=fodtze@gmail.com:f9a243dd:44c1f2f4
[08:55] <Amaranth> ogra: I think you're only supposed to comment if you want me to change something.
[08:55] <ogra> highvoltage, not at all
[08:55] <ogra> but there is no space
[08:55] <ogra> in fact we will have no flight 7 because its to oversized atm
[08:56] <highvoltage> ogra: i'm thinking in lines of the add-on cd ;)
[08:56] <ogra> Amaranth, pfft, if i want to praise you i do it 
[08:56] <Amaranth> hehe
[08:57] <ogra> highvoltage, lets rather see that we get rid of KDE, then we'll have space
[08:57] <pygi> Amaranth: bah, that doesn't mean a thing :)
[08:57] <pygi> ogra: may you please take a look on sec on that application?
[08:57] <Amaranth> ogra: How many KDE apps are used?
[08:57] <highvoltage> ogra: yep. ogra, have you ever thought about openoffice vs abiword and gnumeric?
[08:57] <Amaranth> C++ apps seem to be very bloated, as far as disk space goes
[08:57] <ogra> Amaranth, only some 10 or so kdeedu apps that have no replacement in gnome
[08:57] <highvoltage> abiword and gnumeric are in main now, and are much less resource-hungry
[08:57] <ogra> but that pulls in the whole set of kde langpacks
[08:57] <highvoltage> although, they don't have the kind of documentation and backing that OOo has.
[08:58] <Amaranth> but they don't work with OpenDocument, do they?
[08:58] <ogra> i wouldnt go with abiword for a school
[08:58] <highvoltage> Amaranth: yes, they do
[08:58] <ogra> you need word compatibility and there abiword still lacks
[08:58] <Amaranth> How is their MS Office support?
[08:58] <Amaranth> yeah
[08:58] <highvoltage> i open all my .doc email attachments with Abiword
[08:59] <highvoltage> and that works fine. i suppose if you use it all the time it might be different.
[08:59] <Amaranth> you can at least filter some of the open office things off the CD, no?
[08:59] <Amaranth> Like OOo Base
[08:59] <highvoltage> i don't think that gives you much space, and you'd probably have to do some weird packaging and OOo hacking to make that work.
[09:00] <ogra> no idea if OOo still works then 
[09:00] <LaserJock> ogra: how much space do we need to trim?
[09:00] <Amaranth> ahh, good point
[09:00] <ogra> but we'll need to drop something essential 
[09:00] <highvoltage> 10MB?
[09:00] <Amaranth> if it's compiled with base enabled it might do weird things
[09:00] <ogra> LaserJock, 8M oversized
[09:00] <Amaranth> ouch
[09:00] <ogra> and there are still some docs missing and i have no clue how big the final artwork will be
[09:00] <LaserJock> ogra: do you have the list of installed packages (is that the seed?) ?
[09:01] <ogra> so a bit more will be needed
[09:01] <ogra> yep, thats the seed
[09:01] <Amaranth> the whole language pack thing really...hurts
[09:01] <ogra> (and the deps of these packages) 
[09:01] <Amaranth> in this case, anyway
[09:01] <highvoltage> ogra: how large is tuxtype/tuxmaths?
[09:01] <LaserJock> ogra: is there a URL for the seed?
[09:01] <ogra> highvoltage, very large
[09:01] <pygi> ogra: let's just SoC coding a replacement educational apps for Gnome :)
[09:02] <Amaranth> hehe
[09:02] <highvoltage> ogra: tuxtype specifically is horrible on thin clients, those animations on the splash screens kills a thin client network
[09:02] <ogra> LaserJock, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-dapper/
[09:02] <LaserJock> ogra: thanks
[09:02] <highvoltage> pygi: i know of a lot of people who'd be happy if tuxtype is removed
[09:02] <pygi> highvoltage: hehe :)
[09:03] <ogra> highvoltage, many people love it, but it would be my first candidate if i decided for an edu app
[09:03] <Amaranth> LaserJock: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-dapper/ship specifically
[09:03] <pygi> Amaranth: SoC - solution for all your troubles :)
[09:03] <ogra> Amaranth, and desktop and minimal and server and install :)
[09:03] <ogra> thats all on the CD
[09:03] <Amaranth> pygi: you can try, anyway :)
[09:03] <Amaranth> ogra: I thought ship was everyone on the CD and the others were filters on that data
[09:03] <pygi> Amaranth: yup :P
[09:04] <ogra> Amaranth, nope a package should only be in one seed
[09:04] <ogra> so ship is the stuff on the CD no other metapackage installs
[09:04] <ogra> i.e. build-essential and friends
[09:05] <Amaranth>  * oem-config   # this is small; it can be removed if there's space pressure, but it makes the OEM installer a lot easier to test
[09:05] <Amaranth> oh, it's super small
[09:06] <ogra> yep that gains us nothing
[09:06] <ogra> we have three options:
[09:06] <ogra> dropping a11y
[09:06] <ogra> dropping fonts 
[09:06] <ogra> dropping something from the edu apps
[09:07] <ogra> s/from/of/#
[09:08] <LaserJock> ogra: what about python stuff?
[09:08] <ogra> dropping a11y might be ok for ltsp installs, since nothing of the a11y stuff got ever tested there
[09:08] <ogra> LaserJock, wont gain us much unless we drop it all
[09:09] <ogra> but that would probably upset sabdfl
[09:09] <ogra> s/probably/very likely/
[09:09] <LaserJock> yeah, but he doesn't have to know ;-)
[09:09] <Burgwork> what do we gain with fonts?
[09:09] <highvoltage> ogra: what happens if people upset sabdfl?
[09:09] <cbx33> hehe
[09:09] <highvoltage> ogra: is it the same as upsetting dr. evil? :)
[09:09] <ogra> Burgwork, probably broken asian/greek or whatever support
[09:09] <Amaranth> dropping just tuxtype wouldn't be enough
[09:09] <Burgwork> ogra, hmm, no easy answers here
[09:10] <ogra> Amaranth, note that this will also drop its deps (if not needed anywhere)
[09:10] <ogra> Burgwork, exactly
[09:10] <Amaranth> ogra: I'm guessing someone else uses SDL
[09:10] <Amaranth> ogra: so it's deps wouldn't be dropped
[09:10] <ogra> thats why we wont have a flight 7 since i didnt want to decide alone and in a rush
[09:11] <LaserJock> and we probably don't want to mess with hardware stuff like dropping hppa or sparc kernel modules et al.
[09:11] <Burgwork> ogra, how much space are we over?
[09:11] <ogra> 8 meg
[09:11] <cbx33> 8Meg?
[09:11] <cbx33> hmmm
[09:11] <ogra> but we need space for the docs as well and probably some for the artwork
[09:11] <Burgwork> ogra, what about gcompris sound packages?
[09:12] <ogra> Burgwork, all i could were dropped long ago
[09:12] <Burgwork> ah
[09:12] <ogra> be back in 20-30min
[09:12] <HedgeMage> ogra: hehe go for it
[09:13] <cbx33> hehe
[09:13] <cbx33> ok ogra 
[09:13] <cbx33> see ya in a while
[09:13] <HedgeMage> while ogra's gone, anyone willing to fill my in on what I missed?
[09:13] <cbx33> HedgeMage, what can we cut from edubuntu
[09:13] <cbx33> :p
[09:13] <Amaranth> why are the sounds needed?
[09:13] <LaserJock> ogra: we will thrash out something by the time your back ;-)
[09:13] <Amaranth> those are about 2-3M each
[09:13] <cbx33> are we tied into keeping all of the kdeedu package?
[09:13] <HedgeMage> How much space are we looking for?
[09:13] <cbx33> can we not recompile it?
[09:13] <cbx33> 8Mb
[09:14] <Amaranth> 18-27M savings by dropping gcompris sounds
[09:14] <Amaranth> should be enough for artwork and docs too
[09:14] <cbx33> hmm
[09:14] <cbx33> that's an idea
[09:14] <cbx33> seeing as gcompris when run over ltsp doesn;t have sound by default anyway
[09:14] <Burgwork> Amaranth, but gcompris sounds already been dropped
[09:14] <pygi> Amaranth: and make them download that on first update :)
[09:14] <highvoltage> gcompris sounds aren't so crucial, imho.
[09:14] <Burgwork> cbx33, kde edu will be dropped for edgy
[09:14] <Amaranth> Burgwork: 9 of them are showing up in this list
[09:15] <cbx33> Burgwork, I know
[09:15] <Amaranth> only on i386 though
[09:15] <Amaranth> so if amd64 and/or ppc are too big we still have to drop something else
[09:15] <cbx33> Burgwork, I jus thought for the man time can we modify to make it smaller
[09:15] <cbx33> maybe split it into two pacakges
[09:15] <pygi> Amaranth: may I ask you for a lill' favor? :)
[09:15] <Amaranth> pygi: sure
[09:15] <cbx33> and then update on first install
[09:16] <Burgwork> Amaranth, hmm
[09:16] <pygi> Amaranth: please go to ubuntu SoC wiki page, and add educational applications? :)
[09:16] <pygi> say it would also need good designer/artist skills
[09:16] <Amaranth> hehe
[09:16] <HedgeMage> is there a list somewhere I can skim of what is/isn't in right now?
[09:16] <Amaranth> "rewrite kdeedu apps in gtk"?
[09:16] <pygi> Amaranth: well, that might be one project
[09:16] <Amaranth> HedgeMage: is and isn't on the CD?
[09:17] <pygi> Amaranth: and the other would be just "Create new educational applications for Gnome"
[09:17] <pygi> "Be creative, be skilled, be educational" :)
[09:17] <Amaranth> i'll see what i can do
[09:17] <Amaranth> my language skills are pretty bad though
[09:17] <HedgeMage> Amaranth: is and isn't on the list, since I missed half the convo ;)
[09:17] <highvoltage> goodnight everyone!
[09:17] <Burgwork> Amaranth, see live.gnome.org/EducationSuite
[09:18] <Amaranth> HedgeMage: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-dapper/
[09:18] <cbx33> highvoltage, wait up
[09:18] <pygi> Amaranth: very thanks :)
[09:18] <highvoltage> cbx33: ok
[09:18] <cbx33> I'll get those chacters to you hopefully tomorrow when lisa has finished working on them
[09:18] <cbx33> and could you possibly have a quikc look at ESA tomorrow
[09:19] <highvoltage> cool :)
[09:25] <HedgeMage> I'm reading... when the discussion starts up again, someone please hilight me once or thrice
[09:25] <pygi> HedgeMage: uploaded writings?
[09:26] <HedgeMage> pygi: put one on... it's shorter than I'd like... the other was handwritten (also very short) I will grab it and type it up once I have a toddler-free moment
[09:26] <HedgeMage> I've given up typing much with him "helping"
[09:26] <pygi> HedgeMage: nice :)
[09:29] <HedgeMage> When he goes to bed tonight, I plan to back up my HD and wipe it so I can do an install on it while writing my installation instructions :)
[09:30] <cbx33> HedgeMage, good plan
[09:30] <cbx33> if you need anything proofing just shout
[09:31] <cbx33> or a guinea pig to test it
[09:31] <cbx33> I can get my youthlug members testing it out
[09:31] <HedgeMage> (assuming we don't have a botnet attack like the other night when I tried to do it)
[09:31] <HedgeMage> cbx33: awesome :)
[09:31] <cbx33> :D
[09:31] <HedgeMage> cbx33: I'll let you know once I have it written.
[09:31] <cbx33> ok
[09:35] <ogra> Amaranth, dropping the sounds will cripple gcompris since very much of the games require sounds , i'd rather not drop them
[09:36] <Amaranth> ah
[09:36] <pygi> ogra: well, can't we make people fetch it on first update?  :)
[09:36] <ogra> (and i dont really care if stuff is missing from the other arches)
[09:36] <HedgeMage> pygi: some people may not have a net connection at all, though
[09:36] <ogra> pygi, not if they dont have network
[09:36] <pygi> true 
[09:36] <HedgeMage> ogra: GMTA ;)
[09:36] <ogra> GMTA ?
[09:37] <cbx33> ogra, walked the dog already
[09:37] <ogra> yeah, done :)
[09:37] <bdoin> ogra: you can drop the country names at least, no activity require them
[09:37] <HedgeMage> ogra: Great Minds Think Alike :)
[09:37] <ogra> HedgeMage, heh, yes :)
[09:37] <ogra> bdoin, country names ? 
[09:39] <Amaranth> pygi: the "rewrite kdeedu in gtk" idea is already there
[09:39] <ogra> gcompris is one of our major apps, i wont rip anything of it out on i386
[09:39] <bdoin> for example boards/sounds/en/geography/france.ogg
[09:39] <pygi> Amaranth: ah, link?
[09:39] <Amaranth> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edutainment
[09:39] <Amaranth> it's linked from the soc wiki page
[09:39] <ogra> bdoin, i'm not sure if that wont break gcompris 
[09:39] <cbx33> but then kdeedu is getting dropped next release is it worth it?
[09:39] <pygi> Amaranth: hm,oki...then just add creating new edu apps
[09:40] <cbx33> ogra, if you wanted to drop stuff, I can test it out as much as I can :p
[09:40] <ogra> cbx33, only if there are replacements
[09:40] <cbx33> true
[09:40] <ogra> bdoin, also this would require repackaging of gcompris #
[09:40] <bdoin> ogra: nope, I promise you it won't break anything. they are not present for all locale anyway and it does not prevent them to play
[09:40] <cbx33> ogra, are there components of kdeedu that could go?
[09:41] <cbx33> in this release?
[09:41] <ogra> cbx33, we only ship a very limited set already
[09:41] <cbx33> hmm really?
[09:41] <ogra> and the apps themselves are quite small
[09:41] <cbx33> i was not aware of that
[09:41] <cbx33> just a thought
[09:41] <ogra> kstars is one thats big 
[09:42] <ogra> but as gcompris, dropping that will hurt
[09:42] <LaserJock> I think it might be best to try to not drop educational apps from a distro targeting educational settings
[09:43] <cbx33> LaserJock, yes
[09:43] <pygi> LaserJock: if we have GTK replacements, then it's all right
[09:43] <Petaris> ogra: If I leave a client up for a while (logged in) and don't touch it for about 20 minutes it hard locks
[09:43] <LaserJock> pygi: but do we?
[09:43] <Petaris> hrm
[09:43] <Petaris> and the dhcp server seems to dissappear
[09:44] <pygi> LaserJock: well, not yet =P
[09:44] <LaserJock> pygi: not for dapper I should think
[09:45] <pygi> LaserJock: agreed, not for dapper :)
[09:45] <LaserJock> unless there are some apps hiding around that I don't know about, which is entirely possible
[09:45] <ogra> Petaris, did you install xubuntu-desktop to get xfce ? 
[09:45] <Petaris> hrm
[09:45] <Petaris> ogra yeah
[09:45] <ogra> thats likely an yscreensaver prob then
[09:45] <Petaris> there server seems odd
[09:45] <ogra> s/x/y/
[09:45] <Petaris> I don't have xscreensaver running
[09:45] <ogra> hmm
[09:46] <Petaris> and why would that screw with the server
[09:46] <ogra> i thought xubuntu starts it by default
[09:46] <Petaris> it won't even shutdown
[09:46] <Petaris> :/
[09:46] <bdoin> all geography locales sounds in GC makes 14MB
[09:46] <Petaris> wth
[09:46] <ogra> check the logs on the server if the NIC re-negotiates half/full duplex 
[09:46] <ogra> ot the line speed
[09:46] <cbx33> ogra, what about screensavers on edubuntu?
[09:46] <ogra> s/ot/or/
[09:47] <cbx33> any that are big?
[09:47] <ogra> cbx33, there are none
[09:47] <cbx33> hehe
[09:47] <cbx33> kk
[09:47] <ogra> never were :)
[09:48] <LaserJock> anything in totem, serpentine, rhythmbox, sound-juicer, ekiga, gaim, blender, or evolution?
[09:48] <Petaris> bugger, just had to "big red button" it
[09:48] <ogra> bdoin, i wont drop anything from our killer app and its to late to repackage it if i want to drop only parts
[09:48] <cbx33> do we nned sound-juicer and rythmbox|?
[09:49] <ogra> LaserJock, serpentine could go, since rhythmbox supports audio CD writing, but thats only few kilobytes
[09:49] <Amaranth> HedgeMage: ping
[09:49] <ogra> cbx33, it would drag us away from ubuntu ...
[09:49] <bdoin> ogra: ok, we are glad you consider us this way. don't hesitate to ask for help on #gcompris when you have questions
[09:49] <cbx33> ogra, ok
[09:49] <cbx33> just asking
[09:50] <ogra> bdoin, ineed, i'll do :)))
[09:50] <HedgeMage> Amaranth: what's up?
[09:50] <Amaranth> HedgeMage: they're discussing removals again
[09:50] <HedgeMage> ooh... we started again, thanks for the hilight
[09:50] <HedgeMage> :)
[09:50] <ogra> but any kind of odd decision has to be made, probably dragging away from ubuntu defaults is the one that sucks least 
[09:50] <ogra> thats what i try to determine
[09:51] <HedgeMage> looking for 8MB, correct?
[09:51] <ogra> likely more but 8M would make the install CD work again
[09:52] <cbx33> hmmm
[09:52] <cbx33> what pushed it over, or has it been like this from the word go?
[09:53] <Petaris> ogra: could it be an acpid issue?
[09:53] <ogra> Petaris, it could alsio be a kernel issue, dunno what sideeffect it has what you did to the 64bit kernel to pretend to be 32bit 
[09:54] <Petaris> hrm
[09:54] <ogra> i know it makes laptops freak out if you do it, since thermal and cpuspeed control stop working there
[09:54] <ogra> so it might be an acpi issue, yes
[09:55] <ogra> BenC might know the sideeffects, since he lead you through changing the kernel
[09:56] <ogra> cbx33, packages drow in size 
[09:56] <ogra> *grow
[09:56] <Petaris> ogra: Here is what was done to make the kernel: http://phpfi.com/116101
[09:56] <ogra> some kb with every patch
[09:56] <cbx33> ogra, yeh
[09:56] <cbx33> just checking :p
[09:57] <cbx33> didn;t know if something new was added
[09:57] <ogra> Petaris, yes, you pretend to be i386
[09:57] <Petaris> right
[09:58] <ogra> i know how it works, but i also saw laptops exploding or hovering 1m above the ground with that 
[09:58] <Petaris> hrm
[09:58] <Amaranth> ooh, your laptop can levitate?
[09:59] <HedgeMage> lol
[09:59] <Petaris> ogra: will the clients work if I run straight amd64?
[09:59] <ogra> Amaranth, i guess all amd64 lappies can if the fans are at the bottom
[09:59] <ogra> :)
[09:59] <ogra> Petaris, the clients dont care about the server kernel
[10:00] <Petaris> ogra: but does it affect the software that needs to run on the clients?
[10:00] <ogra> only thig that counts for them is the kernel in the chroot and the one in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp
[10:00] <ogra> (which need to be the same, ltsp-update-kernels cares for that)
[10:01] <ogra> Petaris, no, but it affects the software that runs on the server (user session)
[10:01] <pygi> Amaranth: you actually quoted me =P
[10:01] <ogra> i.e. no flash, realplayer etc on amd64
[10:01] <Petaris> oh
[10:01] <Petaris> bugger
[10:01] <ogra> pygi, hey i thought you wanted to vote
[10:02] <Petaris> so I am stuck
[10:02] <pygi> ogra: ah, yes, yes :)
[10:02] <pygi> ogra: it doesn't matter anyway :P He got the project :)
[10:02] <ogra> Petaris, there is the option of building a 32bit chroot for certain apps to make flash work though
[10:02] <pygi> ogra: even if some other will proposal gets 10000 points, they won't be accepted because they don't have a mentor
[10:02] <Petaris> ogra: how well does that work?
[10:02] <pygi> Amaranth: oki, I am going to vote for you :)
[10:03] <Amaranth> :D
[10:03] <ogra> Petaris, as well as every other solution, its just a pain to maintain another chroot
[10:03] <Petaris> hrm
[10:03] <Petaris> Well enough for today I guess
[10:03] <pygi> nice, SoC web interface just updated :)
[10:04] <Petaris> I will try to get it working enought to go into place Monday mornign
[10:04] <Petaris> s/mornign/morning
[10:04] <Petaris> ogra: thanks for all the help
[10:04] <Petaris> later
[10:04] <Amaranth> pygi: What changed?
[10:04] <ogra> ciao
[10:05] <pygi> Amaranth: a lot of things, at least for me =P
[10:05] <pygi> Amaranth: please look comment?
[10:05] <pygi> ogra: I commented :)
[10:05] <Amaranth> cool, i get to add more random typos to my app now ;)
[10:06] <ogra> :)
[10:06] <pygi> ogra: please lower the score on Magnifier thingy by doing "-2"
[10:06] <pygi> I'll do same
[10:06] <pygi> So we have sane 4 points
[10:06] <pygi> Amaranth: don't play with application =P
[10:06] <Amaranth> uh
[10:06] <ogra> pygi, nah
[10:06] <Amaranth> are those two regulars?
[10:06] <pygi> Amaranth: what do you mean?
[10:06] <Amaranth> because it looks like a probe for a bot attack
[10:07] <ogra> the magnifier is a longstanding whishlist thing of our a11y team
[10:07] <ogra> gnome mag is really crapps
[10:07] <crimsun> Amaranth: (precisely what I was thinking, since they joined multiple channels)
[10:07] <ogra> *crappy
[10:07] <HedgeMage> Amaranth: if it is they've picked the right chan to start in ;)  
[10:07] <pygi> ogra: agreed, but one mentor shouldn't be able to give 100 points :)
[10:07] <Amaranth> ooh, i'd better watch #ubuntu
[10:07] <ogra> pygi, heno will have his reasons :)
[10:08] <pygi> ogra: ah,oki :) 
[10:08] <Sergi0> wooperdi, im so happy with my new laptop :D
[10:08] <pygi> Amaranth: like the comment? :)
[10:08] <Amaranth> :)
[10:09] <HedgeMage> hehe ogra 
[10:09] <Amaranth> I guess I can stop refreshing the page 5 times a day looking for updates.
[10:09] <pygi> Amaranth: agreed :)
[10:10] <Amaranth> *crash*the floor caved in!
[10:10] <Amaranth> d'oh, i ruined it
[10:10] <ogra> hehe
[10:10] <HedgeMage> lol
[10:10] <pygi> Amaranth: I was joking :) Just add whatever you want, as long as it's sane :)
[10:11] <HedgeMage> Amaranth: quit jumping up and down like TT :P
[10:11] <Amaranth> it's 0x0A
[10:11] <bdoin> ogra: yves remembered me that the 10 and above sounds are not used. We can save 1844K by removing them. I can provide you a simple patch in our Makefile.am that do not install them. would that help ?
[10:11] <Amaranth> test
[10:11] <Amaranth> of non-leetneess
[10:11] <Amaranth> yep
[10:11] <ogra> bdoin, absolutely !!
[10:12] <Amaranth> ooh, 1.8M down, 10.2M to go
[10:12] <Amaranth> tuxtype is about 5.5M of that
[10:12] <Amaranth> so we'd be over the halfway mark
[10:13] <ogra> note that it will save more than the actual package size to drop the package 
[10:13] <LaserJock> yeah, depends on the deps, no?
[10:13] <Amaranth> oh?
[10:13] <ogra> likely 6M for a 5.5M package 
[10:13] <ogra> there is some overhead
[10:13] <Amaranth> oh yeah, Packages.gz and such
[10:14] <cbx33> we're getting there
[10:14] <bdoin> ogra: you just need to add --exclude "[12] ?.ogg" in the top level Makefile.am in the list install-data-local:
[10:14] <ogra> even droppig tuxtype will hurt for the workstation 
[10:14] <cbx33> yeh
[10:15] <ogra> but you cant have everything :)
[10:15] <cbx33> well true
[10:15] <cbx33> what about a vote :p
[10:15] <ogra> bdoin, will give it a shot
[10:15] <LaserJock> ogra: hehe, just make a dvd and be done with it ;-) j/k
[10:15] <cbx33> hehehe
[10:16] <bdoin> ogra: here is a patch http://home.gcompris.net/files/gcompris-removal-unusedsounds.patch
[10:16] <ogra> wohoo
[10:18] <bdoin> you have all the locales on the cdrom ? isn't sounds in separate package by locale already ?
[10:18] <ogra> yep
[10:19] <ogra> we have them all on the CD 
[10:19] <ogra> i was blue eaedy hoping that we can ship more than english in the beginning ... in breezy that worked 
[10:20] <ogra> *blue eyedly
[10:20] <ogra> now we have scim and all these asian fonts as well as a11y support on the CD, that eats a lot of space
[10:20] <bdoin> ok then the patch will save 1844
[10:20] <ogra> additionally indeed the single packages grew a bit with counts up
[10:28] <cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/edu22.jpg
[10:29] <cbx33> can some of the locales go?
[10:32] <Bluekuja> really nice
[10:32] <cbx33> ogra, thoughts?
[10:32] <cbx33> first draft
[10:33] <ogra> the wall could look a little less straight 
[10:33] <ogra> but cool !
[10:33] <cbx33> ok
[10:33] <cbx33> will pass on info
[10:33] <cbx33> is that what you had in mind?
[10:33] <cbx33> i thought of adding more to the sidewalk
[10:33] <ogra> yep
[10:33] <cbx33> like paving slabs
[10:33] <pygi> ogra: perhaps you know who is to deal with "Multiple computers synchronization solution" applications?
[10:33] <Burgwork> cbx33, very cool. The one issue I have is that I my mind makes me think that the girl is fingering me
[10:33] <ogra> yeah, and a little bit of dirt
[10:34] <cbx33> Burgwork, :p
[10:34] <ogra> Burgwork, the boy holding the skateboard on his back you mean ? :)
[10:34] <Burgwork> no the girl
[10:34] <ogra> she has her hands on the back
[10:35] <bdoin> We decided to remoave the poor quality record music background ./boards/music/background/Brahms_Johannes-String_Quartet_C_minor_Op_51_mvmt_4.ogg
[10:35] <bdoin> it takes 4.8M !
[10:35] <ogra> woah !
[10:36] <Burgwork> the edu22.png?
[10:36] <Bluekuja> yep burgwork
[10:37] <bdoin> it will be removed from GCompris cvs as well. with the same trick from my patch, you can remove it easily from the installation
[10:37] <HedgeMage> wow
[10:37] <Burgwork> the girl in the front
[10:37] <cbx33> nice work bdoin 
[10:37] <Burgwork> with her fist raised
[10:37] <ogra> will do
[10:37] <ogra> Burgwork, i see that as a boy
[10:37] <bdoin> cbx33: thanks yvesC, not me
[10:38] <cbx33> oh, still good work :p
[10:38] <Burgwork> ogra, oh! I see. I saw it as a girl
[10:38] <Burgwork> anyway, the ambigiously sexed person with the orange shirt
[10:38] <Burgwork> that is the person I was referring to
[10:38] <ogra> Burgwork, and if he doesnt hold his skateboard over the sholder, it will drop on the ground :)
[10:39] <Burgwork> oh, that is what the black thing is
[10:39] <ogra> :)
[10:42] <HedgeMage> lol
[10:43] <pips1> link for the pic you are talking about?
[10:43] <Bluekuja> http://www.progbox.co.uk/edu22.jpg
[10:45] <cbx33> anyone seen the mail on the ML about switching to edubuntu
[10:45] <pips1> whehe, edubuntu street style!
[10:45] <pips1> :-)
[10:45] <HedgeMage> very cute.
[10:45] <cbx33> heheh
[10:45] <ogra> yep
[10:46] <pips1> yo, don't be mistaken by those big eyes, that dude in front is definitely a he, I say
[10:46] <pips1> :-)
[10:46] <pips1> that gold chain is chill !
[10:47] <HedgeMage> lol
[10:47] <cbx33> :D
[10:47] <ogra> yeah
[10:47] <cbx33> we gotta get one of those :p
[10:47] <cbx33> pass it round as a trophy for edubuntu achievement of the release
[10:47] <cbx33> :p
[10:48] <HedgeMage> rofl
[10:48] <cbx33> but for the whole time you have it you gotta speak bling bling
[10:49] <pips1> lol
[10:50] <pips1> !seen doko
[10:50] <ubotu> pips1: i haven't seen 'doko'
[10:50] <pips1> !seen ajmitch
[10:50] <ubotu> ajmitch <n=ajmitch@port169-108.ubs.maxnet.net.nz> was last seen on IRC in channel #ubuntu, 15d 12h 53m 17s ago, saying: 'might be worth leaving it +R for awhile, as annoying as it is'.
[10:50] <pips1> woa
[10:53] <bdoin> ogra: here is an updated patch http://home.gcompris.net/files/gcompris-removal-unusedsounds2.patch that removes also the Brahms music
[10:53] <bdoin> (untested)
[10:53] <ogra> i'll tast it 
[10:53] <ogra> *test
[10:54] <ogra> but not today anymore, i'm swamped in bugs and have to finish my talk for linuxtag on sat.
[10:56] <ogra> bdoin, but thanks a big load for that !!! it will help a lot