[12:14] <mdke> SteveA: mailed ya.
[01:23] <Erlang> how can I remove a project I just created in Launchpad?
[03:18] <MagicFab> Hello
[03:18] <MagicFab> Cheers from Montreal ;)
[03:19] <MagicFab> How can I request a package to be added to Rosetta ? 
[03:20] <MagicFab> specifically, abiword. What is the process to add any package to launchpad/rosetta for translation ?
[03:42] <MagicFab_BRB> ok, someone answered in #ubuntu - tx.
[04:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[04:07] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Tear down BzrTestBase before LaunchpadZopeless, to be compatible with current bzr.dev. (r1849)
[04:15] <mpt> BjornT, I'm happy that utf8 -> utf-8 bug is fixed, because now I get bugmail from "Bj?rn Tillenius" instead of "Bj??rn Tillenius"
[06:10] <spiv> jamesh: I bought a logitech usb headset, and it does indeed work nicely.  Thanks!
[07:07] <jamesh> spiv: cool.
[07:57] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=kiko]  linked directly the translation import queue entries with pofiles when we know it at the time we add the .po file to the queue. Fixes bug #41653 (r1850: Carlos Perello Marin)
[08:10] <SteveA> morning
[08:10] <lifeless> moining
[08:21] <mpool> hi
[08:32] <carlos> morning
[08:32] <SteveA> hello lifeless, mpool, carlos
[08:33] <SteveA> spiv: around?
[08:34] <spiv> SteveA: yep
[08:34] <spiv> And I have a usb headset.
[08:35] <SteveA> spiv: ROCK ON!
[08:35] <SteveA> does it work in linux?
[08:35] <spiv> It does.  "Just work", even.
[08:35] <SteveA> cool.  please send elmo an email telling him that it does, and what the make and model is
[08:36] <SteveA> elmo mentioned he was looking into perhaps getting a few of these for conferences
[08:36] <spiv> Ok.
[08:36] <SteveA> so... shall we try talking?
[08:39] <fabbione> morning guys
[08:39] <spiv> SteveA: Sure, I'll fire up skype.
[08:39] <fabbione> guys i have a general issue with malone and users
[08:39] <SteveA> hey fabbione!
[08:39] <spiv> I'm "spivvo"
[08:39] <fabbione> they have very very hard time to find the link to "Attach file"
[08:39] <lifeless> spiv: get ekiga/skype working :)
[08:39] <SteveA> good to see you on #launchpad this morning
[08:39] <fabbione> and they tend to copy/paste files in the comments, that makes thing more difficult to parse
[08:40] <spiv> (it takes 25 seconds waiting for polling dbus to time out for some unknown reason, damn proprietary software...)
[08:40] <fabbione> can we please get it sorted somehow?
[08:40] <SteveA> fabbione: interesting.  i'll take a look at a bug page.
[08:40] <fabbione> SteveA: i am always everywhere...
[08:40] <mpt> fabbione, we know, it'll be fixed in a few months
[08:40] <fabbione> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/40783
[08:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40783 in xorg "[Dapper]  bad resolution for SONY CPD-210EST screen" [Normal,Needs info]  
[08:40] <fabbione> for example
[08:40] <fabbione> mpt: few months?????
[08:40] <fabbione> you gotta be kidding
[08:40] <spiv> lifeless: I haven't tried ekiga, but I presume it works, I have a SIP account with divmod that's worked just fine with shtoom in the past.  skype seems happy.
[08:41] <SteveA> mpt: i have a suggestion
[08:41] <SteveA> mpt: i'm looking at a random bug page from my browser history: https://launchpad.net/products/blueprint/+bug/40631
[08:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40631 in blueprint "What does the ( i ) mean" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[08:42] <jamesh> spiv: it is trivial to get Ekiga working with the headset -- just go to the audio devices page in the preferences and pick your headset from the list of devices
[08:42] <SteveA> mpt: how about adding a box on the RHS, immediately under the "search upstream bugs" box
[08:42] <carlos> stub, spiv: Could you take a look to https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/41943 ?
[08:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41943 in rosetta "SQLObjectNotFound in +translante page" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[08:43] <SteveA> mpt: that is basically a "help with common tasks" explanation -- it can say "Common things you'll want to do:" and then list the top 3 things that people want to do, but don't realize we have a special way to do
[08:43] <SteveA> mpt: including add an attachment
[08:43] <SteveA> spiv: it's polling dbus all that time?
[08:44] <spiv> SteveA: Yes, strace shows it's stuck in a poll syscall with a 25000ms timeout.
[08:44] <mpt> fabbione, alternatively, persuade sabdfl that the idea of putting all the actions in a menu at the top left is not as good as putting them in other relevant places on the page (e.g., attachment controls immediately above the comment field)
[08:44] <fabbione> mpt: ok can do that...
[08:44] <SteveA> mpt: i don't think adding an attachment control there would be a problem
[08:44] <stub> carlos: We have seen similar reports elsewhere, such as the issues Rosetta was having with Librarian uploads. We have had no success yet  working out wtf is happening.
[08:44] <SteveA> mpt: i think you're taking something mark has said *too* literally
[08:45] <spiv> SteveA: the strace output said it was trying to poll /var/run/dbus/system.socket or similar.
[08:45] <carlos> stub: so you think is the same issue we have with the Librarian?
[08:45] <SteveA> mpt: but also, when there is an issue such as this, i want you to tell me about it.  i was not aware there was a usability issue with adding attachments until fabbione told me.
[08:45] <jamesh> spiv: is that what skype is doing when it starts?
[08:45] <carlos> stub: should I set this one as a duplicate?
[08:45] <SteveA> mpt: as i generally don't add attachments myself.
[08:45] <spiv> jamesh: yes
[08:46] <spiv> carlos: Weirdly, it's inserting more than once??
[08:46] <spiv> Oh, different IDs, I suck.
[08:46] <stub> carlos: IIRC the Librarian too we saw INSERTS being made in the log, yet failures to retrieve the newly inserted row using the (hopefully same) connection.
[08:46] <mpt> SteveA, it's just the most visible symptom of the general problem, because it has effects we can see (i.e. very long comments)
[08:46] <stub> carlos: Yes - they shoud be dupes I think.
[08:46] <carlos> ok
[08:46] <carlos> thanks
[08:46] <SteveA> stub, spiv: still no idea with the librarian issues, despite adding the client logging code?
[08:47] <SteveA> mpt: yes and i want you to tell me about the most visible symptoms --- the ones that are causing tangible problems
[08:47] <spiv> SteveA: No, although I haven't looked at the problem for a while. iirc the logs seemed perfectly sane, though.
[08:47] <SteveA> mpt: fixing the general pattern, from first principles, is very hard, and will not be even started for several months at the earliest.
[08:48] <stub> SteveA: I don't recall the issue being resolved. I recall it confirming that everything appears to be doing the right thing.
[08:48] <SteveA> mpt: making the best of the patterns we have now can happen immediately
[08:48] <stub> SteveA: I personally am hoping is is a psycopg bug that will go away on an upgrade :-/
[08:48] <SteveA> mpt: part of your role is to help us make practical progress on these issues, using the current patterns
[08:48] <mpt> SteveA, all the other ones have the effect of fewer people helping with bug triage. That's only intangible in the sense that we don't have any budget to measure it.
[08:49] <mpt> SteveA, ok, let's talk about a solution to this particular one
[08:49] <SteveA> mpt: yes, i'm interested in solving this problem for fabbione.  i also want you to brief me in our voice calls about the top tangible usability problems you are aware of
[08:50] <SteveA> i already know your feelings on the general UI patterns of launchpad, and those are for improving in the long term
[08:50] <fabbione> SteveA: thanks..
[08:50] <mpt> SteveA, I'm pretty sure adding an instructional box on the top right will have almost no effect, for pretty much the same reason as people aren't seeing Attach File in the first place
[08:51] <mpt> i.e., it will be in a colored box down the side
[08:51] <mpt> Perhaps we could instead ask for an exception for this particular menu item?
[08:51] <SteveA> mpt: that was my first suggestion from what i saw
[08:51] <SteveA> mpt: i actually think it would draw attention to these things, because there would be just three items there, not 9
[08:52] <mpt> SteveA, oh, you mean actual duplicate menu items?
[08:52] <SteveA> but also, i think it makes a lot of sense to have information / controls for adding an attachment near to adding a comment
[08:52] <SteveA> yes i do
[08:52] <BjornT> mpt: iirc, sabdfl was ok with having attachment controls near the comment field. we did discuss it some in london, but i can't remeber exactly what the outcome was.
[08:53] <SteveA> mpt: please draft an email to the launchpad devel list about this particular problem, and the two solutions we've discussed (extra box, controls near add-comment field)
[08:54] <SteveA> mpt: say exactly how the controls near the add-comment field would look and work.  i'll check this out with mark in the call later today.
[08:54] <mpt> ok.
[08:54] <jamesh> spiv: that's really weird.  It doesn't really make sense for Skype to register on the dbus system bus
[08:55] <spiv> jamesh: yeah, let alone silently block startup for it.
[08:56] <jamesh> spiv: there is a skype.conf file that you can probably bung in /etc/dbus-1/system.d to allow Skype to register
[08:56] <jamesh> but it isn't clear why you'd want other users on the system to be able to talk to your skype instance
[08:56] <spiv> Yeah.  I'm inclined to just put up with the silly delay rather than try fix it.
[09:04] <mpt> fabbione, do you have some examples of bugs that have been made long by these comments that should be attachments?
[09:04] <jamesh> spiv: https://developer.skype.com/Docs/ApiDoc/Using_the_Skype_API_on_Linux <- a description of what it is doing
[09:05] <fabbione> mpt: quite a lot of xorg bugs are yes. i pasted one before for all of them.
[09:05] <fabbione> mpt: it's really a common thing from user to miss the attachment thingy
[09:05] <fabbione> mpt: if it was just one, i wouldn't even bother to come here and ask
[09:06] <mpt> fabbione, ok, thanks
[09:06] <fabbione> mpt: no problem dude
[09:07] <spiv> jamesh: That's interesting.  I don't understand why the system bus is involved.
[09:08] <lifeless> spiv: neither do they
[09:08] <jamesh> spiv: most likely so that other people logged into your computer can initiate calls
[09:08] <lifeless> jamesh: more than that
[09:09] <lifeless> jamesh: disabling music players when a call comes in for instance
[09:09] <lifeless> dunno if skype actually does that, but thats what is planned in gnome land
[09:09] <jamesh> lifeless: that's not a reason for skype to provide a control interface on the system bus
[09:10] <jamesh> it might be a reason to send out messages on the system bus for others to listen to
[09:22] <lifeless> from ubuntu-motu
[09:22] <lifeless> 17:15 < aa_> muahah, 500K diff
[09:22] <lifeless> 17:15 < aa_> you really want it?
[09:22] <lifeless> 17:19 < aa_> oh well, I attach it anyway
[09:23] <lifeless> 17:22 < aa_> wow that bug tracker is nice to use
[09:28] <mpt> cool
[09:28] <mpt> I saw another comment yesterday to the effect of "Malone is so much more advanced than any other bug tracker"
[09:29] <ddaa> mpt: how do you interpret that?
[09:30] <mpt> ddaa: as very interesting.
[09:31] <ddaa> gotta admit that if bugtrackers were cars, bugzilla would be a custom dragster and Malone would be a Toyota Yaris
[09:32] <ddaa> probably less powerful as far as it goes, but much much less scary
[09:32] <lifeless> ddaa: I would be worried if my car went 'oops'
[09:33] <mpt> hehehe
[09:33] <mpt> Though, malone hardly does that now
[09:33] <mpt> except when dealing with milestones
[09:33] <ddaa> most cars go oops when they get do deal with milestones a bit too close up
[09:34] <mpt> i.e. break down just after the warranty has expired?
[09:36] <stub> jamesh: There is alreday a constraint on revisionnumber - UNIQUE(sequence, branch, revision)
[09:36] <ddaa> *cry* nobody understands my humour here *cry*
[09:36] <ddaa> jamesh: it's wrong
[09:36] <ddaa> hu
[09:36] <ddaa> stub: it's wrong
[09:36] <ddaa> there's a constraint, but it's incorrect and wrong
[09:37] <jamesh> stub: the constraint I was adding is (branch, revision)
[09:37] <stub> ok. So we need to drop that when adding the UNIQUE(branch, revision)
[09:37] <ddaa> there's a patch in pending (that you made) that changes the constraints adequately
[09:37] <ddaa> I think it even has a number
[09:38] <ddaa> jamesh: database/schema/pending/ddaa-revno-constraints.sql
[09:38] <jamesh> ddaa: just found it, thanks.
[09:39] <BugMaN> hi
[09:39] <ddaa> jamesh: should change the LaunchpadDatabaseRevision to (40, 41, 1), since stub apparently reallocated 40-41-0
[09:40] <jamesh> ddaa: yeah.
[09:40] <SteveA> mpool: ping
[09:40] <stub> jamesh: I'm approving ddaa's patch with one small change
[09:40] <BugMaN> i make 2 specs for rosetta (https://launchpad.net/people/bugman/+specs), any comment or suggest?
[09:40] <jamesh> okay?
[09:40] <ddaa> stub: duh, you _already_ reviewed it!
[09:40] <ddaa> hm
[09:41] <ddaa> maybe not
[09:41] <ddaa> sorry, confused
[09:41] <stub> jamesh: ALTER TABLE RevisionNumber ADD CONSTRAINT revisionnumber_branch_revision_unique
[09:41] <stub>     UNIQUE (branch, revision); should instead be
[09:41] <stub> ALTER TABLE RevisionNumber ADD CONSTRAINT revisionnumber_revision_branch_unique UNIQUE (revision, branch);
[09:41] <ddaa> ddaa.insert(coffee)
[09:42] <jamesh> stub: any reason for using that order?
[09:42] <ddaa> SteveA: don't you make naughty comments about inserting coffee, do you!
[09:42] <jamesh> (so I know in future)
[09:42] <stub> jamesh: patch number is 40-51-0
[09:42] <SteveA> ddaa: wtf are you talking about?
[09:43] <stub> jamesh: UNIQUE constraints create indexes. Reversing the order makes that index usable for looking up revision number by just revision.
[09:43] <jamesh> stub: ah.  That makes sense.
[09:43] <stub> jamesh: And the other index allows looking up RevisionNumber just by branch
[09:44] <stub> ddaa: I don't think coffee enemas have made their way to Lithuania yet
[09:45] <SteveA> stub: sadly...  Results 1 - 10 of about 15,300 for coffee enema lithuania. (0.36 seconds)
[09:45] <spiv> stub: http://monkeydyne.com/rmcs/dbcomic.phtml?rowid=545 ?
[09:46] <jamesh> stub: would it make sense to reverse the revisionnumber_branch_sequence_unique constraint too then?
[09:46] <ddaa> http://www.ineedcoffee.com/01/01/enema/
[09:46] <lifeless> stub: not much point looking up by just revision
[09:46] <jamesh> stub: since we have revisionnumber_branch_id_unique to act as an index on branch
[09:46] <lifeless> oh, meh, my bad
[09:46] <lifeless> yes there is
[09:50] <stub> jamesh: Hmm.... probably yes. I had throught we wouldn't have many unique sequence numbers like in the MessageChunk table. However, we have 12,000 so it could be useful.
[09:50] <jamesh> lifeless: even if there wasn't right now, it'd make sense to make such queries fast if it has no performance hit given the existing constraints
[09:50] <jamesh> stub: okay, I'll make that change too.
[09:51] <stub> jamesh: It might be used if we looked up by revision and sorted by sequence. Which I suspect is pretty pathalogical, but it won't hurt.
[09:51] <stub> Damn, by fingers' spelling is getting worse.
[09:52] <lifeless> dont let your fingers spell
[09:52] <jamesh> stub: actually, look up by branch and then sort by sequence is a common operation.  Would the order make a difference there?
[09:52] <stub> jamesh: Nope.
[09:52] <jamesh> given that there is another unique constraint that puts branch first
[09:52] <stub> jamesh: well... maybe
[09:53] <stub> jamesh: yes
[09:54] <stub> jamesh: We may want an index on (branch, sequence) to support that optimally though. 
[09:54] <jamesh> stub: so I'll leave it as (branch, sequence) then?
[09:54] <ddaa> like revisionnumber_branch_sequence_unique ?
[09:54] <stub> jamesh: Oh... no. Sorry. Leave it like that.
[09:56] <jamesh> stub: come to think of it, I don't think we'd ever want to query or sort on sequence number without also limiting to a particular branch
[09:56] <ddaa> yep
[09:56] <ddaa> would not make lot of sense
[09:56] <ddaa> revision 10 of gnome-control-panel has nothing to do with revision 10 of bzr
[09:57] <stub> jamesh: From testing, an INDEX on (branch, sequence) will be used for selecting by branch and ordering by sequence. Unlike an index on (sequence, branch). So we should leave the UNIQUE constraint as UNIQUE (branch, sequence);
[09:59] <stub> Incidently, I remember reading about a doctor having success treating colon cancer using coffee enemas. It had to be freshly brewed organic coffee.
[10:00] <lifeless> EWW
[10:00] <ddaa> was there a goat skin involved too?
[10:00] <stub> I think the patients were allowed to let it cool first.
[10:00] <jamesh> stub: that implies that he tried non-freshly brewed organic coffee without success
[10:01] <ddaa> and freshly-brewed non-organic coffee too
[10:01] <SteveA> jamesh: voice call?
[10:01] <jamesh> okay
[10:01] <stub> jamesh: Or just had no success because they never tried it
[10:02] <jamesh> stub: in which case he doesn't know that it had to be freshly brewed
[10:02] <SteveA> i think there are medical ethics problems involved
[10:02] <SteveA> in experimenting on cancer patients with old low-quality coffee
[10:03] <ddaa> medicine is unfortunately not a science
[10:03] <stub> jamesh: It might have been something to do with the concentrations of particular componds needed, along with not wanting to shove pestacides and other poisons into their bloodstreams.
[10:03] <ddaa> or fortunately, maybe... in any experimental science, there are more failed experiments than successful ones...
[10:04] <stub> It wasn't the caffeine they needed, anyway.
[10:04] <ddaa> sure they did, everybody needs caffeine
[10:04] <lifeless> you wouldn't want it after it went *there* would you
[10:05] <stub> Or else a no-doze suppository would have worked just as well and be far more convenient.
[10:06] <lifeless> 18:02 < aa_> I like launchpad so much I think I am going to register my product and use it. Anyway have a nice day everyone.
[10:07] <lifeless> BjornT: ping
[10:07] <BjornT> hi lifeless 
[10:07] <stub> On no - it is the caffeine. 
[10:07] <lifeless> carlos/launchpad/PoMsgSetPage <-
[10:07] <stub> Gonzales         suspects that caffeine taken rectally may relax muscles of the liver and         gallbladder ducts, causing ''toxins,'' including byproducts from the body's         attempts to destroy cancer cells, to spill into the intestines. Drinking         coffee doesn't have the same effect, he says.
[10:07] <stub> http://www.healingdaily.com/liver-detoxification/coffee-enemas-article.htm
[10:07] <lifeless> BjornT: this is me nagging you
[10:08] <sivang> morning all
[10:11] <BjornT> lifeless: i assume it's about reviewing carlos' branch? it's been in my queue for less than one day, and i do plan to review it today.
[10:11] <lifeless> BjornT: oh right. Thanks
[10:11] <lifeless> I forgot it was up up early.
[10:11] <lifeless> kiko: I'd *really* rather we dont put branches up for pre-merge review early.
[10:11] <lifeless> kiko: if you want an adhoc review, just ask for who is around.
[10:12] <lifeless> BjornT: when you change it to needs-reply or whatever, update the datestamp to be yesterday please
[10:12] <lifeless> BjornT: and sorry for nagging incorrectly.
[10:12] <lifeless> jamesh: ping
[10:12] <jamesh> lifeless: pong (but talking with SteveA)
[10:13] <lifeless> jamesh: pinging you about your pending review
[10:13] <lifeless> 19  jamesh  david/bzrtools/smallfixes
[10:14] <jamesh> lifeless: I'll do it after I've finished the call
[10:14] <lifeless> thanks
[10:14] <lifeless> has it been around the needs-reply cycle ?
[10:14] <BjornT> lifeless: ok. thanks for nagging, though.
[10:16] <SteveA> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coutts
[10:17] <mpool> SteveA: pong
[10:21] <jamesh> ddaa: just confirming that the meeting time is fine for me.
[10:22] <ddaa> jamesh: great, I wanted to wait for your to reply, but you were the only one missing and SteveA was prodding me to set the meeting time.
[10:22] <ddaa> (and there was a pretty clear consensus too)
[10:23] <ddaa> nice to know that it's fine for you too
[10:30] <jamesh> spiv: looks like you can get skype to start quickly by using the --disable-dbus command line argument
[10:33] <mpt> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/usability/library/us-launch/ -- "Empowering users with launchpads"
[10:41] <uws> jamesh: Thanks! (I had the same skype problem)
[10:42] <jamesh> uws: found the solution here, actually: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SkypeHowto
[10:44] <jamesh> half the stuff on that page isn't really applicable if you have a USB headset, since there is no sound device contention
[10:46] <uws> jamesh: i have an usb headset too. skype throws random errors about sound devices at me though :)
[10:47] <uws> jamesh: btw, I could've figured out myself too by just running  "strace skype"  and see it hang just after a dbus open() call
[10:48] <ddaa> that's good to know
[10:49] <jamesh> uws: even with the dbus config file to punch a hole in the system bus firewall.  It is probably using the old API
[10:49] <ddaa> you mean that with a usb headset you can just plug it in and phone, and still have the beeps and stuff go through the speakers?
[10:49] <jamesh> looks like it statically links libdbus, and I'm not sure if the old version is wire compatible
[10:49] <uws> ddaa: check.
[10:49] <jamesh> ddaa: yeah.  It just shows up as a second sound card.  You just configure skype to use /dev/dsp1 for calls
[10:50] <jamesh> no need to unplug your speakers or anything
[10:50] <ddaa> that's cool... my ISP announced it'll provide SIP access to its phone services (i.e. PTSN-SIP gateway) from anywhere on the Internet, gotta check that out soon.
[10:51] <jamesh> for ekiga, it has a drop down list showing the sound card names
[10:51] <jamesh> which is even easier to configure
[10:52] <ddaa> jamesh: do you know what's the status of usb headsets with linux? Is that "most of them work", or "most of them don't"?
[10:52] <jamesh> ddaa: plug it in and it works
[10:53] <ddaa> easy to say, there's always a vendor or two which tries to be smart and comes up with an egregeriously broken and incompatible protocol...
[10:53] <jamesh> ddaa: I believe there is a standard for USB audio devices, so things generally just work
[10:53] <uws> ddaa: if you have a decent headset (eg. logitech) that speaks "usb audio" than it works right away if you have usb sound card support as a module in your kernel (which most modern kernels have)
[10:53] <uws> snd-usb-audio
[10:53] <jamesh> ddaa: I'm using a Logitech headset and haven't had any problems with it.
[10:53] <ddaa> *nod* thanks, I guess that will be my next toy then.
[10:54] <uws> usbcore: registered new driver snd-usb-audio   <--- after I plug in.
[10:57] <ddaa> lifeless: can you comment on bug 41414 please
[10:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41414 in launchpad "supermirror-branch-puller ignores format changes" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41414
[10:58] <ddaa> lifeless: I'd like to get the details nailed down so we have a precise idea of how much work it will be, and we can see if salgado can get the time to do it soon.
[10:58] <lifeless> ddaa: I have commented
[11:00] <ddaa> lifeless: so "if combined format is different (in any way), rm destination and remirror. No tempname swapping", right?
[11:00] <lifeless> right
[11:00] <ddaa> Should be about 30 lines of code and 100 lines of tests
[11:01] <ddaa> lifeless: you agree with the estimation?
[11:01] <lifeless> yes
[11:01] <lifeless> its quite straight forward
[11:01] <ddaa> there are many values of straightforward, want to make a solid argument to get kiko to assign it to salgado
[11:02] <lifeless> ddaa: has kiko pushed back on it ?
[11:02] <lifeless> ddaa: if not, just ask.
[11:02] <ddaa> he did
[11:02] <ddaa> he's got much use for salgado in the next weeks
[11:54] <mpt> BjornT, ping
[11:54] <BjornT> hi mpt 
[11:55] <mpt> BjornT, displaying-bugs-and-tasks.txt uses bugtaskset.get(n) to retrieve tasks with various severities from the database
[11:56] <mpt> When looking at a particular task, how do I tell what ID it is so I can do the same thing?
[11:59] <mpt> or even better, how do I create such tasks in the test itself?
[11:59] <BjornT> mpt: it's not exposed anywhere externally. the easiest thing to do is to query the db directly, 'select if from bugtask where severity=50' for example.
[12:00] <mpt> ok
[12:00] <BjornT> mpt: you can also get an existing task and assign the severity yourself, 'bugtask.severity = BugTaskSeverity.CRITICAL'
[12:02] <mpt> To do that I'd have to import BugTaskImportance in the test
[12:02] <mpt> hmmm
[12:02] <mpt> from canonical.lp.dbschema import BugTaskImportance
[12:03] <mpt> bingo
[12:03] <mpt> and then critical_importance_task.importance = BugTaskImportance.CRITICAL
[12:13] <mpt> ok, that works, thanks BjornT 
[12:32] <mpt> <built-in method capitalize of str object at 0xb5375f20>
[12:32] <mpt> nnnurgh
[12:33] <mpt> ah, so I did need "import string" after all
[12:34] <spiv> mpt: You very rarely need "import string" :)
[12:34] <mpt> hmmmmmmm
[12:34] <mpt> oh, I was doing foo.capitalize instead of string.capitalize(foo)
[12:35] <spiv> mpt: foo.capitalize()
[12:35] <mpt> really?
[12:35] <mpt> One day this will no longer seem random to me
[12:35] <SteveA> it returns you a new string
[12:35] <SteveA> rather than changing the string you have
[12:36] <spiv> You need to call functions/methods if you want them to do something, and they way you call something is with parens.
[12:37] <mpt> hooray
[12:37] <mpt> <img alt="(minor)" title="Minor importance" src="/@@/bug-minor" />
[01:09] <sabdfl> carlos: ping
[01:11] <mpt> sabdfl, in answer to your question, the full menu system is making good progress, but I don't know when it will be finished. In the meantime, I could replace the current menu with a CSS-only version that wouldn't flash; that would take about half a day.
[01:11] <cprov> good morning 
[01:13] <mpt> bbiab
[01:13] <sabdfl> mpt: your call, if it's really half a day then it seems reasonable unless you are racing to land something else
[01:13] <sabdfl> what does your queue look like?
[01:14] <carlos> sabdfl: pong
[01:17] <sabdfl> carlos: am landing a tiny diff that fixes the problem of pofiles not being displayed on distrorelease pages where they have not been started
[01:17] <sabdfl> mpt: your call, if it's really half a day then it seems reasonable unless you are racing to land something else
[01:17] <sabdfl> what does your queue look like?
[01:17] <sabdfl> erk
[01:17] <SteveA> the CSS only version i think would be awkward to use in comparison
[01:17] <sabdfl> SteveA: ok, then ask mpt to continue to focus on the current menu
[01:17] <sabdfl> the current menu-in-development that is
[01:17] <SteveA> mpt has some styling work to do on the current menu
[01:17] <SteveA> i have some integration work to do on it
[01:18] <carlos> sabdfl: I'm switching tasks now, so I could take a look to it if you want
[01:18] <SteveA> and there are some issues left on the scrolling, although it basically works
[01:18] <sabdfl> carlos: it's in pqm now
[01:18] <sabdfl> that was just a heads-up
[01:18] <sabdfl> tiny patch, kiko reviewed last night, there are doc and page tests
[01:18] <carlos> ok, cool
[01:18] <SteveA> i would prefer to live with imperfections in the current menus, and push for getting the new menus delivered soon.  i estimate they'll be on staging during next week.
[01:18] <sabdfl> pqm is saying "cleaning working directory" and has been saying that forever
[01:19] <carlos> sabdfl: did you add batching to the page?
[01:19] <sabdfl> carlos: no, i don't think we want batching
[01:19] <carlos> sabdfl: well, we had performance issues with that page
[01:19] <sabdfl> i doubt this will add any perf issues
[01:19] <carlos> I think the new hardware 'fixed' it
[01:20] <sabdfl> because all it does is drop in a DummyPOFile if there is no POFile for the relevant template
[01:20] <SteveA> which rosetta page is under discussion?
[01:20] <sabdfl>  /distros/ubuntu/hoary/+lang/hr
[01:20] <carlos> SteveA: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/2036
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2036 in rosetta "DistroRelease language page should show *all* templates" [Major,Confirmed]  
[01:21] <carlos> sabdfl: ok, I guess we could add batching later, if needed
[01:21] <sabdfl> old longstanding bug, trivial fix
[01:22] <carlos> sabdfl: are you sorting the entries now?
[01:22] <spiv> sabdfl: that's the last thing it says before mirroring from balleny to chinstrap, I think, which seems to be taking a long time recently (reweaving maybe?).
[01:22] <sabdfl> carlos: yes
[01:22] <sabdfl> by potemplate name
[01:22] <carlos> sabdfl: cool, thanks
[01:22] <sabdfl> thanks spiv
[01:23] <lifeless> sabdfl: we're currently reweaving on every commit
[01:23] <sabdfl> lifeless: why is that?
[01:23] <lifeless> sabdfl: differing parent ordering between balleny and chinstrap and the incoming branches
[01:24] <lifeless> I have a reconcile patch that should fix this
[01:24] <lifeless> which I have merged, now need to run on balleny and then chinstrap
[01:24] <lifeless> also, moving to knits will help massively,
[01:24] <sabdfl> ok
[01:25] <lifeless> speaking of which,
[01:31] <SteveA> mpt: hello
[01:31] <mpt> hi
[01:31] <SteveA> i like the idea of a CSS only menu for the interim, but i fear it would be "clunky" compared with what we have currently
[01:32] <SteveA> as in, it would behave like a div that appears on demand, rather than like a menu
[01:33] <mpt> It would appear more quickly, but it would also be more hostile in disappearing instantly if you moved outside by mistake
[01:34] <mpt> and it wouldn't have a shadow (I could do that, but probably not worth the effort)
[01:34] <SteveA> i see
[01:34] <SteveA> how long, realistically, would you need to work on it?
[01:34] <mpt> about half a day, I think
[01:35] <SteveA> i don't think it is worth it.  we'll have the new menus on staging next week
[01:35] <mpt> Fair enough.
[01:35] <SteveA> and i expect rolled out after that
[01:35] <SteveA> i appreciate that you made the suggestion
[01:35] <mpt> Is it worth at least landing the fix you were given to stop the pages jumping to the front?
[01:36] <SteveA> yes
[01:36] <SteveA> is that what the fix does?
[01:36] <SteveA> i thought it was for just making it work on konqueror
[01:36] <mpt> It doesn't work on Konqueror??
[01:36] <SteveA> i'm not sure
[01:37] <SteveA> i'll send you that fix
[01:37] <mpt> iirc it was attached to the jumping-to-the-front bug, as well as being sent to you
[01:37] <mpt> maybe I was confused, and they were actually different patches
[01:38] <SteveA> i imagine applying these fixes is a quick task
[01:38] <SteveA> so, please apply those
[01:39] <mpt> The menu works fine in Konqueror, just tried it
[01:39] <SteveA> good
[01:39] <SteveA> i was confused then
[01:40] <mpt> ok, time for 20 minutes of uninterrupted bug-fixing
[01:41] <SteveA> MEETING IN 28 MINUTES
[01:42] <SteveA> mpt: are all the meeting notes up to date?
[01:45] <carlos> stub: hi, is there any problem with staging's database?
[01:45] <carlos> stub: it says I don't have permissions and the mirror should be finished already
[01:50] <mpt> SteveA, perhaps you meant 18 minutes?
[01:50] <mpt> SteveA, yes they are
[01:50] <SteveA> MEETING IN 9 MINUTES
[01:50] <SteveA> thanks mpt
[01:58] <stub> carlos: Dunno. I'll have a poke during the meeting.
[01:58] <carlos> stub: ok, thanks
[02:00] <salgado> stub, I have a patch that changes some words on two shipit templates (it's on pqm's queue now). would it be possible to apply the patch manually on production, to avoid the hassle of a cherry pick?
[02:00] <kiko> morning
[02:00] <kiko> tis meeting time!
[02:00] <stub> salgado: i already have an outstanding cherry pick to land, so one more won't hurt.
[02:01] <salgado> stub, great. I'll mail you the revision once it gets through pqm
[02:01] <kiko> SteveA, al al
[02:01] <SteveA> hi kiko
[02:01] <SteveA> sorry about the alarm call, man
[02:02] <kiko> no worries duder
[02:02] <kiko> it was a nice surprise
[02:02] <kiko> though I have no idea what we talked about
[02:03] <jordi> alo
[02:04] <kiko> SteveA, no meeting today? :)
[02:04] <SteveA> yeah
[02:04] <SteveA> i'm late!
[02:04] <SteveA> this is terrible
[02:04] <SteveA> MEETING TIME!
[02:04] <jordi> I might be on and off today, I keep running out the office today
[02:04] <SteveA> who's here today?
[02:04] <mpt> me
[02:04] <salgado> me
[02:04] <jordi> I am
[02:04] <matsubara> me
[02:04] <kiko> me
[02:04] <cprov> me
[02:04] <spiv> me
[02:04] <BjornT> me
[02:04] <sivang> me
[02:04] <stub> me
[02:04] <jamesh> me
[02:04] <jordi> carlos: dude!
[02:04] <carlos> me
[02:04] <kiko> bradb, dude!
[02:05] <carlos> jordi: ;-)
[02:05] <bradb> here!
[02:05] <jordi> :)
[02:05] <bradb> I look away for 15 seconds and miss the LP meeting
[02:05] <kiko> it's that short!
[02:05] <jordi> it happens all the time to me :)
[02:05] <SteveA> 
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Items from last meeting
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Launchpad oops milestone report
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Outstanding sysadmin requests
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (stub)
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Consistent @canonical.com addresses in LP (kiko)
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Keep discussions on the lists.  (SteveA)
[02:05] <SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
[02:06] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[02:06] <SteveA> 
[02:06] <lifeless> hola
[02:06] <SteveA> next meeting -- same time next week?
[02:06] <SteveA> any dissent, you have a countdown of 5
[02:06] <SteveA> 4
[02:06] <SteveA> 3
[02:06] <SteveA> 2
[02:06] <SteveA> 1
[02:06] <SteveA> okay, done
[02:06] <SteveA> activity reports...
[02:06] <sivang> hmm, that was rather short :)
[02:06] <salgado> I'm up to date
[02:06] <lifeless> godlike in their prevalence
[02:06] <stub> up to date
[02:06] <bradb> up to date
[02:06] <BjornT> i'm up to date
[02:06] <jordi> I'm missing last week's report, the rest were updated.
[02:06] <matsubara> I'm up to date
[02:06] <SteveA> i suck, again
[02:06] <carlos> up to date
[02:07] <mpt> up to date
[02:07] <cprov> I'm up to date
[02:07] <kiko> as usual up to date
[02:07] <lifeless> SteveA: why do you suck so much ?
[02:07] <spiv> I suck
[02:07] <jamesh> not up to date.  I suck (will send a summary again)
[02:07] <jordi> will be back in a few mins
[02:07] <SteveA> lifeless: i don't know for sure.  i have the times and activities in gtimelog...
[02:08] <lifeless> SteveA: make it a habit
[02:08] <kiko> I find it so easy
[02:08] <SteveA> jamesh and spiv: both send summaries please.  and we'll talk next week about improving all our activity reports
[02:08] <SteveA>  * Items from last meeting
[02:08] <lifeless> SteveA: my morning work flow is email, send activity report to a random mailing list, then go onto 'work'.
[02:08] <SteveA>  * '''bradb''' to make an RT ticket on killing malone-users@, and tell SteveA the RT number
[02:09] <bradb> oops, I guess I should do that now
[02:09] <SteveA>  * '''cprov''' to arrange a meeting with Kinnison
[02:09] <SteveA> cprov: ?
[02:10] <SteveA>  * '''jamesh''' to send an activity summary
[02:10] <cprov> SteveA: I suck, couldn't organize it properly. duplicated librarian still there
[02:10] <SteveA> which was done
[02:10] <SteveA>  * '''jamesh''' to mail kiko with details on updating the error report script
[02:10] <kiko> cprov, and complaints still happening
[02:10] <cprov> librarian filenames ..
[02:10] <jamesh> done.
[02:10] <kiko> jamesh did that! thanks
[02:10] <SteveA> cool
[02:10] <SteveA>  * '''kiko''' to mail Mark about the registration workflow and NotFound tokens
[02:10] <jamesh> I also set up the staging oops summaries
[02:10] <cprov> kiko: yes, downloading last librarian GC email, it's huge again
[02:11] <cprov> kiko: we definatelly need more info in this report
[02:11] <SteveA> kiko: ?
[02:11] <SteveA>  * '''lifeless''' to put UI reviews on the agenda for the reviewers meeting
[02:11] <mpt> Oops, I didn't see jamesh's summary, but he did send it
[02:11] <kiko> SteveA, I can't even remember that. what is it about?
[02:11] <SteveA> that was done and discussed
[02:11] <kiko> registration workflow?
[02:11] <SteveA> kiko: you'll have to check the summary to find out
[02:11] <lifeless> SteveA: I did that
[02:12] <SteveA>  * '''mpt''' to add a note to the error pages, saying that the launchpad-users@ list requires subscription
[02:12] <lifeless> SteveA: done and dusted
[02:12] <BjornT> kiko: i think it was why a password was required on the token page
[02:12] <mpt> SteveA, not done yet
[02:12] <kiko> SteveA, oh. I did that.
[02:12] <mpt> I can do that now-ish
[02:12] <SteveA>  * '''SteveA''' to talk with admins about priority of RT-6081
[02:12] <kiko> SteveA, it is already sorted.
[02:12] <SteveA> done
[02:12] <SteveA> ok
[02:12] <SteveA> so, some actions
[02:12] <bradb> is rt rt@canonical.com?
[02:12] <SteveA> MeetingAction: steve to talk with spiv and jamesh about the activity reports of all three
[02:12] <Znarl> rt@admin.canonical.com
[02:12] <jamesh> bradb: rt@admin.canonical.com
[02:12] <bradb> thanks
[02:12] <SteveA> bradb: i'd rather not say the address on a logged channel
[02:12] <SteveA> but then, if Znarl is okay with it...
[02:13] <SteveA> MeetingAction: mpt to land text addition to oops page about subscribing to the list
[02:13] <SteveA> MeetingAction: james and andrew to send activity summaries
[02:14] <SteveA> MeetingAction: cprov to do... what exactly?
[02:14] <kiko> sort out the librarian bug
[02:14] <kiko> cprov needs to set aside some time and research
[02:14] <kiko> don't rely on Kinnison IMO
[02:14] <cprov> I'll need some Kinnison time on it as well
[02:14] <cprov> kiko: why not ?
[02:14] <SteveA> kiko: i leave managing this in your hands
[02:15] <kiko> of course
[02:15] <SteveA> i think i got all the meeting actions
[02:15] <SteveA> thanks kiko
[02:15] <SteveA>  * Launchpad oops milestone report
[02:15] <matsubara> We're getting exceptions like OOPS-119C166, where a foreign key constraint is
[02:15] <matsubara> triggered but the foreign key exists. I think Stuart would be able to
[02:15] <matsubara> explain it better.
[02:15] <matsubara> We're still seeing some of the Retry exceptions.
[02:15] <Ubugtu> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/119C166
[02:15] <matsubara> timeouts in +translation, +translate and distrorelease +search are reported and kiko is assigned to them.
[02:15] <matsubara> Also bug 42755 is assigned to kiko, which is a timeout in bugs with insane
[02:15] <matsubara> amounts of comments.
[02:15] <SteveA> matsubara: how many retry exceptions per day?
[02:16] <matsubara> they're not happening every day. but they still happen
[02:16] <kiko> matsubara, I have a fix for bug 42755 in my tree, will land today. it's caused by @#!$!@ RelatedJoin and I am considering fixing SQLRelatedJoin, actually
[02:16] <matsubara> stevea: last oops report we had 3
[02:17] <SteveA> thanks
[02:19] <matsubara> in the timeout side we're still suffering some problems because of TeamParticipation query
[02:19] <SteveA> stub: is three retry errors per day okay?
[02:19] <iwj> Public bug reported:
[02:19] <iwj> Affects: gs-esp (Ubuntu)
[02:19] <iwj>        Severity: Normal
[02:19] <iwj>        Priority: (none set)
[02:19] <iwj>          Status: Fix Released
[02:19] <iwj> Freaky!
[02:19] <SteveA> hi ian
[02:19] <iwj> Hello.
[02:19] <mpt> iwj, I reported that bug
[02:19] <SteveA> we're in a meeting right now,.  mpt, perhaps you can talk with ian on another channel?
[02:19] <iwj> Does that mean someone reported the bug and the status was set to Fix Released before the mail got sent out ?
[02:19] <stub> SteveA: I have no idea really. We can tell more when I or someone gets around to making the Retry exceptions more informative.
[02:19] <iwj> Oh, sorry.
[02:19] <kiko> matsubara, OH. TeamParticipation, eh? I WONDER WHY THAT HAPPENS.
[02:19] <jamesh> iwj: yes.
[02:19] <SteveA> np
[02:19] <SteveA> kiko: point taken.
[02:19] <SteveA> stub: bug number please?
[02:19] <kiko> stub, for now, is increasing the number in the Z3 code difficult?
[02:19] <matsubara> SteveA: bug 35850
[02:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35850 in launchpad "TeamParticipation caching not working" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35850
[02:19] <SteveA> kiko: not sure there's all that much point
[02:19] <matsubara> SteveA: sorry. that's wasn't the bug you wanted...
[02:19] <SteveA> stub: bug number please for the bug about improving retry error messages
[02:19] <kiko> SteveA, I think if we raised it to 5 we'd make them go away for now at least
[02:20] <stub> SteveA: Bug 31479
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31479 in launchpad "Retry exceptions should include information about the original query" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31479
[02:20] <SteveA> i remain skeptical
[02:20] <SteveA> spiv: would you take on this bug, for after your wiki work?
[02:20] <stub> Just needs Retry.__repr__ improved I think
[02:20] <spiv> SteveA: 31479?
[02:20] <SteveA> yes
[02:20] <spiv> Sure.
[02:20] <SteveA> thanks
[02:20] <matsubara> SteveA: there's algo bug 41739
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41739 in launchpad "Increase number of Retry attempts" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41739
[02:20] <stub> (we can subclass Retry in canonical if we don't want to mess with upstream)
[02:21] <SteveA> stub: your call on 41739
[02:21] <stub> Give it a go. I'm not sure where the knob to twiddle is at the moment.
[02:21] <SteveA> matsubara: thank you for the report
[02:21] <SteveA>  * Outstanding sysadmin requests
[02:22] <SteveA> 5
[02:22] <SteveA> 4
[02:22] <SteveA> 3
[02:22] <SteveA> 2
[02:22] <SteveA> 1
[02:22] <SteveA> ok
[02:22] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (stub)
[02:22] <stub> For some reason the staging update is being very slow today. I'll know more when the report comes in.
[02:22] <stub> I've opened an RT issue requesting a load of DNS and apache redirects to support the next stage in our migration of https://launchpad.net/foo/bar/baz to https://baz.bar.foo.launchpad.net/. We can expect maintenance times and bugs to increase as the system complexity increases.
[02:22] <stub> Nothing thrilling happening on production.
[02:22] <cprov> just regitering a point, this week buildd DB access errors disapeared. 
[02:23] <kiko> uhhh
[02:23] <stub> I expect to cherry pick some stuff tonight or tomorrow morning (request on launchpad@ I havn't looked at too closely, and salgados shipit stuff landing now)
[02:23] <SteveA> stub: also, there is a new wiki page!
[02:23] <kiko> just ftr
[02:23] <stub> Yer, but wiki pages suck
[02:23] <jamesh> stub: would it make sense to configure apache to include a config file we (or you) have control over, so admin intervention isn't needed as much?
[02:23] <kiko> the proposal isn't a generic foo/bar/baz -> baz.bar.foo mapping, right?
[02:24] <kiko> the wiki page ROCKS
[02:24] <kiko> it is the future
[02:24] <kiko> and SteveA and I have a magical plan for it
[02:24] <SteveA> we do?
[02:24] <stub> kiko: I'm being silly
[02:24] <mpt> For the record, what wiki page are we talking about?
[02:24] <SteveA> mpt: glad you asked...
[02:24] <carlos> kiko: is it ready to start migrating all Rosetta pages from wiki.ubuntu.com to it?
[02:24] <sivang> is there a specification for this interesting transition? (/me is interested in the rationale)
[02:25] <stub> LaunchpadProductionStatus or something
[02:25] <kiko> stub, never! but thanks
[02:25] <carlos> mpt: https://help.launchpad.net/
[02:25] <kiko> carlos, sssshhhhh
[02:25] <kiko> it's a secret
[02:25] <carlos> upps
[02:25] <carlos> :-P
[02:25] <mpt> oh. that.
[02:25] <kiko> but the idea is for us to provide links from launchpad pages to the wiki
[02:25] <kiko> I spoke to SteveA about it
[02:25] <SteveA> aha
[02:25] <SteveA> yes, spiv has it on his list of tasks for the very near future
[02:25] <kiko> and we have a suggested plan of mapping view names to it
[02:26] <SteveA> so, keeping on topic
[02:26] <kiko> sorry.
[02:26] <SteveA> i wanted to mention the LaunchpadProductionStatus wiki page
[02:26] <stub> jamesh: I'd rather have the admins do it so it matches the way they will deal with production
[02:26] <jamesh> stub: fair enough
[02:26] <SteveA> that stuart is maintaining with information about what is in production at a given time
[02:26] <SteveA> moving on...
[02:26] <SteveA>  * Consistent @canonical.com addresses in LP (kiko)
[02:27] <stub> If I'm not informative enough, you all have access to the production branch and can fill in details yourself too!
[02:27] <kiko> Mark wrote email to the list asking for people to ensure that first.lastname@canonical.com was registered in the wiki
[02:27] <stub> wiki?
[02:27] <kiko> err
[02:27] <kiko> launchpad
[02:27] <kiko> (freudian. serious one)
[02:27] <kiko> who has made sure it's there?
[02:27] <kiko> me
[02:27] <matsubara> me
[02:28] <BjornT> me
[02:28] <bradb> me
[02:28] <stub> You find wikis erotic?
[02:28] <jamesh> me
[02:28] <stub> me
[02:28] <salgado> me
[02:28] <SteveA> not me
[02:28] <SteveA> anyone else not?
[02:28] <spiv> me
[02:28] <mpt> me
[02:28] <lifeless> me
[02:28] <kiko> carlos?
[02:28] <lifeless> erm
[02:28] <carlos> me
[02:28] <lifeless> not me
[02:28] <SteveA> this is confusing
[02:28] <SteveA> let me try this again
[02:28] <SteveA> please say "email set" or "not set"
[02:28] <SteveA> not set
[02:28] <mpt> not set
[02:28] <matsubara> email set
[02:28] <spiv> email set
[02:28] <carlos> email set
[02:28] <kiko> email set
[02:28] <stub> email set
[02:28] <cprov> me
[02:29] <bradb> email se
[02:29] <bradb> email set!
[02:29] <SteveA> cprov: please try again
[02:29] <lifeless> not set, I'm not sure how to keep RobertCollins and change the email
[02:29] <cprov> email set
[02:29] <BjornT> email set
[02:29] <kiko> lifeless, it's just registering a new email address
[02:29] <salgado> email set
[02:29] <kiko> basic LP functionality
[02:29] <lifeless> kiko: in wiki.launchpad.canonical.com ?
[02:29] <jamesh> lifeless: https://launchpad.net
[02:29] <kiko> lifeless, in launchpad.net
[02:29] <lifeless> oh, sure, I have it there
[02:30] <SteveA> MeetingAction: steve and mpt and lifeless to set canonical email in launchpad
[02:30] <kiko> I said wiki because I had too much crack this morning
[02:30] <lifeless> SteveA: mine is set
[02:30] <SteveA> ok
[02:30] <lifeless> kikos crack confuddled me
[02:30] <jamesh> SteveA: yours looks like it is set too
[02:30] <kiko> I had to file an admin request to get mine done
[02:30] <kiko> because christian.reis didn't work
[02:30] <SteveA> oh, okay
[02:30] <kiko> ftr
[02:31] <SteveA> MeetingAction: mpt to get his set
[02:31] <SteveA>  * Keep discussions on the lists.  (SteveA)
[02:31] <kiko> (so mpt write to rt to get this going)
[02:31] <kiko> (if it's an issue)
[02:31] <SteveA> there have been various discussions that start off with a person mailing someone else... then other people get CCed, and it turns into a mass discussion
[02:31] <SteveA> with only a portion of the team able to read it
[02:31] <SteveA> and no archived history
[02:32] <SteveA> and no capability for kiko and me to know what's going on
[02:32] <SteveA> so, i'm asking that you all keep discussions on a mailing list
[02:32] <SteveA> even if they are relevant to just a few people
[02:32] <SteveA> if in doubt, err on the side of using the list
[02:32] <SteveA> that is all
[02:32] <SteveA>  * Staging testing proposal (kiko)
[02:33] <kiko> So in the thread "Community testing data migration"
[02:33] <kiko> stub suggested I was underestimating writing tests against a production system
[02:33] <kiko> so I'd like to elaborate on the idea I had
[02:34] <kiko> basically, we'd capture HTTP requests that are issued against production
[02:34] <kiko> and then replay them against staging daily
[02:34] <kiko> this way we'd generate traffic which is representative of real-world use
[02:34] <jamesh> posts too?
[02:34] <kiko> and see what effect it would have on the latest code
[02:34] <kiko> yes, posts too
[02:35] <mpt> Will that generate huge numbers of errors whenever staging has a different DB schema?
[02:35] <SteveA> i see ordering problems
[02:35] <kiko> we'd use the oops reports to gauge how well we looked
[02:35] <stub> It will generate a huge number of false positives
[02:35] <kiko> stub, in terms of crashes? or in terms of NotFound pages?
[02:35] <stub> For every changed feature between production and HEAD. And that is what you are attempting to test.
[02:35] <sivang> kiko: you'd have to use db which is in previous snapshots before the actual recording took place
[02:35] <kiko> ordering problems? 
[02:35] <stub> kiko: Both.
[02:35] <SteveA> yes
[02:35] <lifeless> any data discrepancy in the basis db will invalidate that test
[02:35] <SteveA> requests would end up executed out of order
[02:36] <kiko> stub, crashes should not occur -- period -- right?
[02:36] <SteveA> beacuse we have several app servers in production
[02:36] <jamesh> stub: if user input causes an unexpected exception, that is a bug
[02:36] <kiko> what jamesh said
[02:36] <stub> kiko: You will get an oops if, for example, a field is made required. Or a field dropped.
[02:36] <SteveA> each with their own async thread <--> app thread queue
[02:36] <kiko> SteveA, we'd order them by time. we'd also only capture a slice of the day's traffic, not all of it.
[02:36] <kiko> stub, no, we wouldn't get an oops. we'd get a regular validation error.
[02:36] <jamesh> stub: ideally those should provide proper error messages to users
[02:37] <jamesh> what kiko said :)
[02:37] <kiko> if we get an oops, it's borked.
[02:37] <SteveA> i think the idea is worth exploring
[02:37] <stub> kiko: Yes. So the form will not submit. And now the data is out of sync, so future submissions will also fail.
[02:37] <SteveA> but we don't have time for more discussion right now
[02:37] <lifeless> there are some good nuggests in it
[02:37] <kiko> that's my proposal anyway
[02:37] <lifeless> but its not ready just yet:(
[02:37] <ddaa> SteveA: sorry for missing the meeting
[02:38] <sivang> kiko: better do this twice, once replay it against current data to see everything hsa a proper response, and once against a db snapshot from before the recording to test other func.
[02:38] <ddaa> no good excuse, just completely forgot about it
[02:38] <kiko> yeah, it needs consideration, but I think it's a plan to test tip without major day-to-day work on adding production tests.
[02:38] <kiko> difficult to coordinate time with lifeless, but this is something the mailing list would be good for discussing I think
[02:38] <SteveA> i'm moving the meeting on
[02:38] <kiko> I'd like jamesh' input because he does not seem allergic to the idea
[02:38] <SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
[02:38] <jordi> I have my email set, sorry
[02:38] <SteveA> with countdown
[02:39] <SteveA> 8
[02:39] <kiko> and because he us as usual as sharp as a razor
[02:39] <SteveA> 7
[02:39] <ogra> heya, i have a problem with team management, i'm th eadmin of https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members, now we elected a council to care for new members and i'd like the other council members to be admins, but i have no power to change their status it seems
[02:39] <SteveA> 6
[02:39] <SteveA> 5
[02:39] <jamesh> kiko: I see difficulties getting the auth right when replaying requests, but that is just a technical issue that can probably be overcome
[02:39] <SteveA> 4
[02:39] <SteveA> 3
[02:39] <SteveA> 2
[02:39] <SteveA> 1
[02:39] <SteveA> ok
[02:39] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[02:39] <SteveA> please go ahead
[02:39] <mpt> DONE: Various reviews, BreadcrumbMenus design, MaloneSimplifications
[02:39] <mpt> TODO: Land MaloneSimplifications, ShipIt CSS, Blueprint+Registry fixes
[02:39] <mpt> BLOCKED: Lots of interruptions
[02:39] <BjornT> DONE: Implemented almost everything we discussed re bug watches. zope3 fixes.
[02:39] <BjornT> TODO: improve bug watch widgets. land the branch-bug xmlrpc stuff we did in London. fix bugs. reviews.
[02:39] <jordi> DONE: some emailing
[02:39] <carlos> DONE: PoMsgSetPage finished and ready to review, bugs #41653 and #41943, user support, Debug and recover from backups Esperanto translations for OpenOffice.org
[02:39] <carlos> TODO: Implement script to migrate translations from breezy to dapper, Fix as many 'Major' bugs in Rosetta as possible.
[02:39] <carlos> BLOCKED: Meet with kiko to schedule my tasks
[02:39] <BjornT> BLOCKED: no
[02:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41653 in rosetta "Import of po file goes in the wrong template" [Major,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41653
[02:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41943 in rosetta "SQLObjectNotFound in +translante page" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41943
[02:40] <salgado> ogra, only the team owner can turn existing members into admins
[02:40] <jordi> TODO: list email, queue clearing
[02:40] <bradb> DONE: Landed bug dates. Fixed a few OOPS bugs. Put IBug.date_last_updated up for review.
[02:40] <bradb> TODO: Land IBug.date_last_updated and branch in SteveA's queue. Fix OOPS bugs as they appear.
[02:40] <bradb> BLOCKED: No.
[02:40] <jamesh> DONE: OOPS summaries for staging / bzrsync history rewriting / branch-pull-list
[02:40] <jordi> BLCOKED: no
[02:40] <jamesh> to authserver (bug 40383)
[02:40] <jamesh> TODO: branch-pull-list to authserver / spec pending reviews on LP / more importd stuff (discuss at meeting on tuesday)
[02:40] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[02:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40383 in launchpad "remove InternalHTTPLayer" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40383
[02:40] <matsubara> DONE: oops report analysis, bug triage, support request.
[02:40] <lifeless> DONE: bzr 0.8 sprinting
[02:40] <salgado> DONE: ShipItForDapper, branch puller, code review, taught the mirror prober how to probe cdimage mirrors and fixed some trivial bugs
[02:40] <lifeless> TODO: release bzr 0.8
[02:40] <lifeless> BLOCKED: no
[02:40] <ogra> salgado, there is no owner ... 
[02:40] <salgado> TODO: get the new shipit reviewed; finish the changes to the mirror prober and merge them; fix #41414, if time permits
[02:40] <salgado> BLOCKED: No
[02:40] <kiko> DONE: finished peer reviews, management and planning, assisting matsubara in picking up QA tasks, helping some design discussions
[02:40] <matsubara> TODO: fix oops bug, more bug triage.
[02:40] <matsubara> BLOCKED: no
[02:40] <cprov> DONE: fix rfc2047 builder in upload messages, dogfood not sending email,redesigned change-override, discuss security from soyuz plans and generating Contents.gz
[02:40] <cprov> TODO: sort out duplicted librarian filenames, finally land queue-ui and ppa-ng (old branches that needs reviewer's love, kiko), land redesigned archive-cruft-check
[02:40] <cprov> BLOCKED: None, except working time
[02:40] <kiko> TODO: fix some bugs, help nudge work ahead
[02:40] <SteveA> DONE: management, menus work
[02:40] <SteveA> TODO: brad's code review, management, crowd control (still), virtual hosting improvements, menus integration
[02:40] <SteveA> BLOCKED: no
[02:40] <SteveA> 
[02:40] <mpt> ogra, five minutes
[02:40] <kiko> BLOCKED: not really, but a lot of things need discussion
[02:40] <spiv> DONE: Reviews, work on merging sourcecode branches, voip faffing (now sorted), wiki work.
[02:40] <ogra> mpt, k
[02:40] <spiv> TODO: Various Ubuntu wiki work (WikiLicensing, BetterWikiDocs).  Merge outstanding updates to sourcecode/* and then fix for 41409.
[02:40] <spiv> BLOCKED: no
[02:41] <kiko> cprov, yeah, will do 
[02:41] <stub> DONE: Production, staging, DBA and queries. Little development.
[02:41] <stub> TODO: Full text searching improvements, staging environment update for domain changes.
[02:41] <stub> BLOCKED: wildcard SSL certificate RT job, staging domain name changes RT job. 
[02:41] <SteveA> mpt:  how do you have lots of interruptions for at least 1/2 the day in NZ ?
[02:41] <kiko> spiv, I have some SQLObject patches that I want to land when you've got tests running on PQM
[02:41] <salgado> ogra, the community cancel is the owner, so all members of the CC can do that
[02:41] <SteveA> carlos: perhaps you and i should meet to schedule your tasks?
[02:41] <cprov> kiko: right, today, no excuses, from both sides ;)
[02:41] <kiko> yeah :)
[02:41] <carlos> SteveA: sure, I don't mind if it's with kiko or with you
[02:41] <ogra> salgado, ah, ok, i'll poke them then 
[02:41] <ogra> thanks :))
[02:41] <stub> heh.... community cancel...
[02:41] <ogra> heh
[02:42] <mpt> SteveA, by working when anyone else is awake :-)
[02:42] <salgado> that was a good typo
[02:42] <SteveA> stub: i spoke with elmo about the SSL cert and domain name changes.  it will happen soon.
[02:42] <kiko> carlos, SteveA's a good idea because he's closer to you -- I can step in to give some opinions if you like
[02:42] <stub> Yup. My RT job only went in yesterday so I'm not expecting it to be ready now :)
[02:42] <spiv> kiko: Cool.  SQLObject tests failing is what's currently holding it up, as it happens ;)
[02:42] <SteveA> mpt: you can announce that you intend to be away for 1.5 hrs, to focus.  check back in after that.  for example
[02:43] <mpt> true
[02:43] <SteveA> MeetingAction: steve and carlos to meet to discuss carlos' tasks
[02:43] <carlos> kiko: any input is welcome, so you are welcome if you have time
[02:44] <SteveA> matsubara: kiko tells me that a point from earlier went unanswered
[02:44] <kiko> SteveA, carlos: I do have time, ping me when you can
[02:44] <spiv> kiko: (Tests using mxDateTime, as it happens.  We don't use it, so I'll just disable them.)
[02:44] <kiko> matsubara, about oopses with queries that seem to be executed out of order or something -- oops-119c166
[02:44] <Ubugtu> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/119c166
[02:44] <carlos> kiko: ok, thanks
[02:45] <SteveA> it is the end of the meeting.  stub and matsubara, please discuss this right after the meeting, if necessary
[02:45] <matsubara> kiko: indeed. we're seeing some of that
[02:45] <SteveA> that's all folks.  thanks for coming.
[02:45] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[02:45] <jamesh> lifeless: might be of interest to you: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2006-May/msg00000.html
[02:46] <jamesh> lifeless: ross has fixed the things blocking the Gnome migration to SVN
[02:46] <lifeless> jamesh: heh
[02:46] <mpt> ogra, ?
[02:46] <ogra> mpt, salgado already helped me 
[02:46] <mpt> ok
[02:47] <sabdfl> mpt: stevea reckons best to keep focused on the new menu
[02:47] <ogra> i was confused because the owner status isnt shown in the userlist :)+
[02:47] <ddaa> DONE: merge bunch'o'branches, fix importd, lots of communication
[02:47] <ddaa> TODO: merge more branches, review importd-error-reporting, resume cscvs/bzr-native, fix pybaz patchlog parsing
[02:47] <ddaa> BLOCKED: spiv's sourcecode fixes, mpool's reply about pybaz
[02:47] <ddaa> activity reports: uptodate
[02:47] <SteveA> sabdfl: thanks.  mpt and i discussed this just before the lp meeting.
[02:47] <mpt> sabdfl, yes, I saw that
[02:48] <mpt> sabdfl, I have IE installed now, so I can debug the CSS there
[02:48] <stub> Out of order queries would either be SQLObject bugs or it being necessary call SQLObject sync methods where we are not. I'm not sure if SQLObject query ordering is stable - if there is some randomness we might see occasional errors instead of constant. 
[02:49] <kiko> stub, doesn't the oops logger grab queries as they are issued to the DB server?
[02:49] <stub> kiko: It is supposed to, yes.
[02:49] <kiko> hmmm.
[02:49] <kiko> stub, and are we using a single connection and transaction inside a web request?
[02:49] <moyogo> hi
[02:50] <spiv> kiko: Again, that's what's supposed to happen.
[02:50] <stub> kiko: In theory, yes. But it is a suspect in the 'that insert doesn't appear to exist when we try and use it' bug we are seeing occasionally.
[02:50] <kiko> hmmm!
[02:51] <kiko> spiv, stub, jamesh: would it make sense to print out the connection/transaction ID together with the queries issued in the oops report?
[02:51] <ddaa> grah
[02:51] <spiv> One weird thing about OOPS-117B18: "849ms  	SELECT NEXTVAL('POSubmission_id_seq')"
[02:51] <Ubugtu> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/117B18
[02:51] <stub> Unlikely though - I'm pretty certain we are not using multiple connections, connections from other threads or issuing transactional commands at random. At least the testing I've done so far says it isn't that.
[02:51] <moyogo> how do I add depends to bug reports?
[02:51] <moyogo> or blocks?
[02:51] <spiv> That's a very long time for a simple nextval, and it's right near the end of the query log.
[02:51] <stub> But I don't see a likely culprit for the problems, so we are stuck chasing the unlikely ones.
[02:52] <mpt> moyogo, Malone doesn't support dependencies at the moment
[02:52] <lifeless> moyogo: we dont have that. 
[02:52] <kiko> moyogo, we don't have dependencies -- add a comment.
[02:52] <moyogo> oki
[02:52] <mpt> moyogo, but you can choose "Edit Description" to note the dependency
[02:52] <mpt> that will be more visible than a comment
[02:52] <lifeless> moyogo: if what you are working on is more future planning than plain bugs, you can also consider a specification
[02:52] <mpt> as long as you're sure it is a dependency :-)
[02:52] <lifeless> specs do have dependencies
[02:53] <carlos> SteveA: when could we have the meeting?
[02:53] <spiv> kiko: fwiw, I agree with stub's assessment.  It seems very unlikely, but we don't have any likely hypotheses.
[02:53] <stub> spiv: Updating sequences will require accessing shared memory, so for that to happen would involve a network hiccup or something being locked on the db requiring the weight (some sync-to-disc or wal rotation - no idea really)
[02:54] <stub> err... wait
[02:54] <stub> not weight
[02:54] <SteveA> carlos: are you blocked on this for your work today?
[02:54] <carlos> SteveA: no, I'm not blocked today
[02:54] <stub> spiv: ignore it unless we see it more often
[02:54] <SteveA> then i propose tomorrow
[02:54] <carlos> ok
[02:54] <SteveA> in the first part of kiko's day
[02:54] <spiv> stub: It's just that seeing a weirdly slow increment of a counter is an interesting co-incidence to find in an inexplicable OOPS.
[02:55] <carlos> kiko: your choice then
[02:55] <kiko> friggin stevea
[02:55] <carlos> :-P
[02:56] <stub> Hmm... tcp should guarantee we don't lose information sent between the client and server, so we should be able to discount commands just being dropped due to a network screwup (?)
[02:56] <spiv> stub: Right.
[02:56] <stub> eg. ipfilters being reset or having runtime issues
[02:57] <spiv> stub: I don't have any theory about how slow nextval could be related to that failure, I'm just clutching at the only straw I see :)
[02:57] <stub> It is a valid point
[02:57] <stub> It may be a symptom of what is really going on
[02:57] <spiv> Yeah.  Or it could be nothing... do we have any other OOPSes like this one?
[02:57] <ddaa> SteveA: anybody can spare a couple of hours dealing with bug 42928?
[02:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42928 in launchpad "vcs-imports must be allowed to edit productseries" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42928
[02:58] <ddaa> cannot do my importd mr-fixit work without that
[02:58] <stub> ddaa: We can promote you to admin if it is blocking you
[02:58] <ddaa> that would be great, I have plenty of uses for admin rights
[02:59] <stub> That sounds ominous
[02:59] <ddaa> but OTOH, it's probably better to fix the permissions and keep admin to those who REALLY need it.
[03:00] <kiko> ddaa, can you describe what needs to be done in the bug?
[03:00] <lifeless> ddaa: can I suggest you write a 'vcs-import-needs tests'
[03:00] <lifeless> ddaa: a single story that does one of each you need to do, as a vcs-imports user. That should stop these random regressions.
[03:00] <carlos> ddaa: agreed, I got admin permissions and forgot to fix the issues that forced me to request such permissions....
[03:01] <ddaa> postponing that, or postponing the other stuff...
[03:02] <ddaa> lifeless: that's a good idea, and getting it fixed is not extremely urgent, I'll stick it in the bazaar meeting agenda.
[03:05] <ddaa> Mh... OTOH the current situation might prevent me from approving new imports
[03:05] <ddaa> stub: can you give me admin for a couple of weeks, until that permissions problem is fixed properly?
[03:06] <stub> ddaa: ok
[03:09] <stub> ddaa: done
[03:09] <ddaa> thanks
[03:11] <ddaa> kiko: is bug 3292 still valid?
[03:13] <kiko> ddaa, not sure
[03:13] <ddaa> not sure either...
[03:13] <kiko> needs validating
[03:15] <salgado> stub, can you add the distributionmirror-prober.py cronscript to the nightly job? (It doesn't take any arguments and shouldn't make any noise)
[03:15] <stub> salgado: staging or production?
[03:16] <salgado> stub, production
[03:16] <salgado> there's one thing I forgot, though
[03:16] <stub> salgado: What user does it connect as?
[03:16] <salgado> stub, distributionmirror
[03:16] <stub> ok
[03:17] <kiko> what did you forget salgado 
[03:18] <salgado> secret
[03:18] <salgado> I told stub in private. :)
[03:18] <kiko> Laura had /seeecrets/
[03:21] <stub> salgado: Done, and tests show it works (well.. if telling me that there is nothing to do is working)
[03:22] <salgado> heh
[03:22] <salgado> that's because there's no registered mirrors
[03:23] <salgado> but I'll add one now, so kiko gets some email if something goes wrong during the night. ;)
[03:23] <kiko> I love email
[03:27] <ddaa> kiko: I'll just reject 3292, will file it again if the needs becomes apparent again
[03:27] <kiko> okay
[03:27] <ddaa> also, open bugs with less than four digits depress me
[03:28] <ddaa> * less than five
[03:28] <mpt> such as bug 44?
[03:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44 in rosetta "Messages should be searchable." [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44
[03:28] <ddaa> mpt: that's only a wishlist...
[03:29] <mpt> and of course bug 3
[03:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3 in rosetta "Custom links for each translation team." [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3
[03:29] <ddaa> there are "it's broken dude!" bugs that have been open for more than a year
[03:29] <ddaa> experience shows that the longer a bug stays open, the least chance it has of being fixed
[03:30] <ddaa> so, better to close bugs that have been open for a while, and reopen them with a fresh analysis if they are still relevant.
[03:30] <mpt> That's not experience, that's just the Poisson distribution at work
[03:30] <mpt> and reopening them won't really help, imo
[03:30] <stub> Bugs grow up to be features
[03:30] <ddaa> I think it helps to start from a clean slate from time to time.
[03:31] <kiko> I sort of agree
[03:31] <ddaa> sometimes the initial bug report is still relevant, but has assumptions which are obsolete, that makes decisions difficult
[03:31] <mpt> That's why we have editable descriptions
[03:32] <mpt> but blizzards of comments can still bog down a bug report (cf. KeepingBugsConcise)
[03:34] <ddaa> I find it depressing when I read comments and think "what the hell was I thinking at the time?!?!"
[03:34] <mpt> so eventually you should be able to just click the [ - ]  button for that comment, and move on :-)
[03:36] <mpt> Interface design as antidepressant
[03:41] <sivang> ddaa: I have this same issue, rather amazing how different this can be from time of commenting , and when refreshign memory about an issue
[03:41] <sivang> ddaa: like you have been somebody else at that time
[03:52] <sivang> ddaa: s/have/are/
[04:05] <sabdfl> SteveA, kiko: i'm calling in now
[04:06] <lifeless> night all
[04:08] <jsgotangco> night
[04:33] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=kiko]  Show empty pofiles on distrorelease translation page. (r1851: Mark Shuttleworth)
[04:49] <ruffneck> I got my CD's =) Finally :)
[05:13] <ddaa> maybe some garbage collection would be in order...
[05:20] <ddaa> needs some optimisation, as it is it would send 2900 mails...
[05:20] <ddaa> kiko-phone: would you like 2900 more daily error spam?
[05:20] <kiko-phone> no
[05:32] <ddaa> kiko-phone: more seriously, how many mails do you think would be reasonable. I expect at least a hundred daily error logs at first, so they will need grouping somehow, while retaining some useful granularity.
[05:33] <kiko-phone> up to 10 a day is okay
[05:41] <sfllaw> Hello friends!
[05:41] <sfllaw> Bug 31293
[05:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31293 in linux "My laptop doesn't resume from S3 ACPI sleep state." [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31293
[05:42] <sfllaw> How do I change the remote bug details for linux (Upstream)?
[05:47] <salgado> sfllaw, I think that's the "immutable upstream tasks" problem. there's a thread about it on launchpad@
[05:47] <salgado> maybe bug 34343 has something to do with that too
[05:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34343 in malone "Shouldn't allow task reassignment to an upstream that doesn't use Malone" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34343
[05:50] <sfllaw> Ah, I grok it now.
[05:50] <sfllaw> Makes me sad.
[05:50] <sfllaw> Sad enough to eat lunch.
[05:51] <matsubara> good idea! 
[05:58] <ddaa> man... that's depressing... 214 daily error logs, totaly of 1.5MB...
[06:02] <kiko> ddaa, why so much? is a lot of it very broken? or is it just that the failures are very verbose?
[06:02] <ddaa> both
[06:02] <ddaa> mostly the first, actually
[06:02] <kiko> can you fix.. argh
[06:02] <ddaa> not without a lot of very dull work, and a lot of hard work
[06:03] <ddaa> From a quick look there's a mix of:
[06:03] <ddaa> hostile sshd setup on the publishing server, again
[06:03] <ddaa> outdate CVS details
[06:04] <ddaa> good all cscvs breakage (might be anything, from manually poked directory to something much more interesting)
[06:04] <ddaa> interesting baz2bzr bugs
[06:04] <ddaa> sourceforge ordinary suckage
[06:07] <ddaa> that one is fun
[06:07] <ddaa> bzrlib.errors.MalformedTransform: Tree transform is malformed [('duplicate', 'new-101', 'new-102', u'ChangeLog~.moved.moved.moved.moved.moved.moved.moved.moved.moved')] 
[06:11] <ddaa> I vote for deleting all the shit owned by registry
[06:12] <ddaa> that will: 1. get rid of all the crap nobody cares about
[06:12] <ddaa> and that goes outdated
[06:12] <ddaa> 2. reduce the problem to a manageable size
[06:13] <ddaa> wow great, the samba repo actually hits one of my paranoid sanity checks!
[06:14] <ddaa> CVS.Error: File checkout did not give file data and did not indicate file was removed.
[06:15] <ddaa> iow, "no fucking clue what's going on, this does not make sense"
[06:15] <ddaa> _sqlite.DataError: too much data for one table row
[06:16] <jordi> hey
[06:17] <ddaa> ValueError: attempt to patch non extant file : bindings/.cvsignore
[06:17] <ddaa> funny cscvs bug, that one
[06:18] <ddaa> rsh: cvs.musicbrainz.org: Name or service not known
[06:19] <ddaa> another interesting baz-import bug
[06:19] <ddaa> RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp
[06:20] <ddaa> mh... a broken baz lock
[06:24] <ddaa> some cases where it tries to baz add a file already added
[06:24] <ddaa> a few config fuckage, probably renaming issues (no new commits, tobaz was not performed, whatever that means)
[06:26] <ddaa> but most of them are sourceforge refusing login, cscvs failing validation or trying to patch a file that does not exist, or baz-import doing the moved.moved.moved.moved thing
[06:27] <ddaa> kiko: I'll take a sick year or two and come back when they are all read
[06:27] <ddaa> * all red
[06:28] <ddaa> enough for today, in any case...
[06:30] <jordi> carlos: pingy
[06:30] <carlos> jordi: pong
[06:30] <jordi> carlos: I have no idea of how to reply to Daniel Nylander on his May 2nd email
[06:30] <jordi> I wonder why only 50% of my Swedish translation of installation-guide
[06:30] <jordi> has been imported?
[06:30] <jordi> and asks about a new pot.
[06:31] <carlos> let me read the email... (we have a pending to be imported installation-guide)
[06:31] <jordi> oh, great
[06:31] <jordi> so that answers it
[06:32] <jordi> if you tell me what to reply, in general terms, I can do it
[06:32] <carlos> jordi: but we don't have any .pot file pending to be imported
[06:32] <carlos> jordi: just .po files
[06:33] <carlos> because their layout is not supported and need manual import
[06:33] <jordi> nod
[06:34] <jordi> well, he talks about an ew upstream pot
[06:34] <jordi> by fjp
[06:34] <carlos> it depends on the Ubuntu version we have
[06:35] <jordi> nod
[06:35] <carlos> jordi: wait I will try to get all .po files imported today
[06:36] <carlos> let's answer when we have it done, ok?
[06:36] <jordi> I guess kamion would know if we want that version or not?
[06:36] <jordi> sure
[06:36] <jordi> carlos: we have scots plural forms
[06:37] <jordi> n=2; n!=1
[06:37] <jordi> I guess that applies to both scots
[06:37] <jordi> I'll ask for that
[06:37] <jordi> but I'd say it will
[06:37] <jordi> I can ask daf as well
[06:38] <carlos> jordi: yes, please, get confirmations before requesting any change
[06:38] <carlos> jordi: btw, I'm not up to date with the mailing list
[06:38] <carlos> so I'm not aware of all requests....
[06:38] <jordi> don't worry
[06:55] <jordi> carlos: build/boot/x86/po/help.pot in debian-installer in Ubuntu Dapper
[06:55] <jordi> is this ok to go?
[06:57] <carlos> yes, it should be approved automatically
[06:57] <carlos> we have it already imported
[06:58] <carlos> hmm
[06:58] <carlos> ok, we had a problem with the import script, that's why it's not yet imported...
[07:00] <carlos> wtf?
[07:01] <carlos> kdepim and koffice have a shared translation domain!!
[07:09] <jordi> carlos: how did that happen?
[07:10] <carlos> jordi: ask KDE guys....
[07:10] <carlos> they have it twice
[07:10] <jordi> carlos: Scots is ready to be requested to stub, I checked it doesn't apply to Irish gaelic
[07:10] <jordi> yay
[07:11] <carlos> jordi: ok, send me a copy of the request to stub so I remember to update our sample data
[07:11] <jordi> yes
[07:12] <jordi> gnah, I want to go to the fscking Fira del Llibre
[07:14] <carlos> :-)
[07:15] <jordi> carlos: ugh
[07:15] <jordi> I exported zope 3.2, all translations
[07:15] <jordi> and I got a tar with all the relevant po files, but with an empty .pot file
[07:17] <carlos> yeah, the empty .pot file bug is a know bug :-(
[07:17] <jordi> ok
[07:18] <carlos> jordi: https://launchpad.net/rosetta/imports/+index?status=NEEDS_REVIEW&type=pot
[07:18] <carlos> the import script did the clean task ;-)
[07:18] <jordi> that's my current url!
[07:18] <jordi> oh good :D
[07:18] <jordi> thanks
[07:19] <jordi> THE KIKO
[07:20] <kiko> indeed
[07:21] <jordi> carlos: hmm. So, now I have a good zope.tar.gz, but can I upload it myself?
[07:21] <jordi> will I have the perms?
[07:21] <carlos> jordi: yes, you should have permissions, even with close permissions
[07:21] <carlos> jordi: you are a rosetta expert!
[07:21] <carlos> :-P
[07:22] <jordi> I'm still not convinced. We'llfind out.
[07:22] <jordi> I know where you live
[07:23] <carlos> :-P
[07:23] <carlos> but I'm leaving now... so you will not find me until tomorrow or late tonight :-P
[07:23] <carlos> see you!
[07:23] <jordi> hehe
[07:23] <jordi> laerters
[07:46] <jordi> carlos: there's another post in the list I wanted you to have a look at
[07:46] <jordi> Subject: Re: bad merge?
[07:47] <jordi> I'm leaving now for a while.
[07:47] <jordi> Laters!
[07:47] <jordi> kiko: I'm going to try tonight in an "acrobacies" group at uni
[07:47] <jordi> a lot better than running with a fsckd knee!
[07:48] <kiko> I am so envious
[07:48] <jordi> I knew that
[07:48] <jordi> laters
[08:20] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=spiv]  Fixes bug 36105 (Importance sort order incorrect), bug 41419 (sorting by column headers broken in Safari), and bug 41981 (invalid XHTML in front page and distro pages). (r1852: Matthew Paul Thomas)
[10:21] <kiko> SteveA, wake up
[10:42] <cbx33> hi guys, not sure who to ask, I recently became an ubuntu member, but my ubuntu email doesn't work
[10:43] <cbx33> can someone advise
[10:45] <mdke> cbx33: what is your launchpad id?
[10:46] <cbx33> petesavage
[10:46] <cbx33> https://launchpad.net/people/petesavage
[10:46] <cbx33> :D
[10:47] <mdke> cbx33: I bet its because you are in edubuntumembers, rather than directly in ubuntumembers: because that group is very new, the ubuntu email stuff may not have been updated to work with it <-- elmo, any ideas?
[10:47] <elmo> the edubuntu stuff isn't working yet
[10:48] <mdke> how about that for a fast response
[10:48] <cbx33> any idea on an ETA :p - says cheeky cbx33 :p
[10:49] <mdke> elmo: do you need an RT for it?
[10:49] <elmo> can if you want, I don't think there is ATM
[10:49] <elmo> cbx33: when it's done
[10:49] <cbx33> okies
[10:49] <mdke> elmo: I'll ask someone actually involved in edubuntu to file one :D 
[10:50] <Bluekuja> elmo: im having this problem Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
[10:50] <elmo> Bluekuja: see above
[10:50] <mdke> elmo: Bluekuja is an ubuntu one
[10:50] <Bluekuja> yes
[10:50] <elmo> same diff
[10:50] <elmo> I broke the ubuntu ones trying to make edubuntu + kubuntu work
[10:50] <mdke> ahh
[10:50] <elmo> so new ones aren't getting added atm
[10:50] <mdke> well, I'll file the RT then :D
[10:50] <mdke> thanks dude
[10:50] <cbx33> elmo, would adding edubuntu ones to ubuntu work?
[10:51] <mdke> cbx33: he'll sort it, and I'll let you know.
[10:52] <cbx33> thank you mdke 
[10:52] <mdke> np
[10:52] <cbx33> thank you elmo 
[10:52] <cbx33> sorry to be a pain :p
[10:52] <cbx33> still on the ubuntu member rush :p
[11:09] <bradb> BjornT: ping
[11:12] <bradb> ValueError: dictionary update sequence element #0 has length 1; 2 is required -- God that is such a Pythonic error message!
[11:14] <bradb> Actually, it makes sense, but how that got that from trying to click a Submit button with zope.testbrowser.Browser is mystical
[11:19] <AlinuxOS> ra sakvareli tipia :D
[11:19] <AlinuxOS> zeppelinebs rom uberavs
[11:19] <AlinuxOS> sagol sagol!
[11:24] <AlinuxOS> ops
[11:24] <AlinuxOS> wrong channel
[11:24] <AlinuxOS> sorry