[12:04] <maxco> if I want to improve the look and the feel of the ubuntu desktop, I think I have to get involved into Gnome instead of ubuntu ?
[12:15] <sivang> maxco: you can do that, or you can work on stuff in ubuntu which can get used by larger communities if appropriate
[12:15] <maxco> yes
[12:15] <maxco> but the "appropriate" word hurt me a little bit
[12:17] <maxco> if I want to inovate a bit, I cant very much because users dont want to break what they are used to
[12:17] <maxco> I think to the "spatial" browsing of nautilus for exemple
[12:19] <maxco> I think that community does not let you to experiment new design, new concepts of the user interface, etc ... because they just dont have ideas about what thing could be added to improve the user-friendlyness, where dev/designer could
[12:20] <maxco> then, they just use what they know, when they looks a new feature on windows/macos, they want the same on linux, some things like that
[12:21] <sivang> sort of, yes, we;ve had a couple of those I think
[12:22] <maxco> but linux really have to get a design update
[12:22] <sivang> maxco: if you have a suggestion or so, feel free to add it to the wiki as a specification, or discuss it over the mailint lists for broader consideration.
[12:22] <maxco> oh, yeah okay
[12:23] <sivang> maxco: if you want to change the way the desktop is, then I think you better work it out upstream
[12:23] <sivang> maxco: =GNOME,KDE etc..
[12:23] <maxco> yes, what I though
[12:24] <maxco> I am currently using xfce ( but with some gnome tools ) and I really like the way that xfce takes
[12:25] <maxco> they take care about user/computer interface and standards ( I mean freedesktop ones )
[12:26] <maxco> I think I could get a touch with its devs
[12:27] <sivang> maxco: Doesn't GNOME also follows those standards? 
[12:28] <maxco> less than xfce does ?
[12:28] <maxco> or maybe in the past they dont
[12:28] <maxco> dont know very well
[12:29] <maxco> I really like gnome, I use it as well as xfce
[12:30] <maxco> but somethings disturb me, like some designs and the slowness of gtk
[12:32] <maxco> I think I could start by developping my ideas concretely and propose them to Gnome/xfce devs
[12:32] <maxco> but I want to keep a link to ubuntu, because I really love this distrib
[12:33] <sivang> maxco: okay, then you can do that in two leverls.
[12:33] <sivang> levels, even
[12:33] <sivang> maxco: 1) work with Xubuntu developers and propose your ideas. sometimes things are accepted in ubuntu, then upstream sees its good and decids to adopt them.
[12:34] <sivang> maxco: 2) work and propose stuff directly to XFce developers, I know they are already in contact with some of the Xubuntu developrs, and pushing ideas back and forth.
[12:34] <maxco> okay cool, I will do that
[12:36] <maxco> I just have a little question : how linux devs works on the last cvs version of a project without breaking all their system with dependencies problems ?
[12:37] <maxco> because if you want to work on the last version of a tool, you need to get the last version of the libs
[12:37] <crimsun> maxco: I generally keep chroots for that sort.
[12:38] <maxco> chroots ? you make a little system inside your usual one ?
[12:38] <crimsun> maxco: indeed.
[12:39] <sivang> maxco: some break their system and then waste time restoring it, like me :) some use chroots, yes 
[12:39] <maxco> oh good idea !
[12:39] <maxco> :p
[12:40] <sivang> crimsun: have you been doing work on dh_iconcache ?
[12:40] <maxco> it is so hard to work on a big project on linux ... mainly because of the libs/headers dependencies ?
[12:41] <crimsun> sivang: I haven't -- been embroiled in other bugs, sorry.
[12:41] <sivang> crimsun: no problem, thanks anyway ;)
[12:42] <sivang> maxco: hard is relative. Usually each big project has it's own stack of development tools and build ways, once you control those, it becomes easy I think
[12:42] <maxco> yes of course
[12:43] <maxco> but unflexibility breaks innovation ( it is only my advice )
[12:44] <maxco> erm, s/advice/opinion
[12:45] <sivang> maxco: sure, but sometimes when a system is responsible for so many things, there is not escape from complexity and size..
[12:45] <sivang> maxco: taking the approach of componentization could help alot in this cases, though.
[12:45] <maxco> yes yes I agree
[12:46] <maxco> I am thinking to xfree/xorg
[12:46] <sivang> exactly
[12:47] <maxco> the result is that they become unappropriate for today needs, and you need to make some hacks like xgl
[12:48] <maxco> even they was well-designed at the begining
[12:49] <maxco> if on day a guy say "hey I want my desktop being managed only by opengl", you can wait a very long time before this guy release his idea
[12:49] <maxco> it is the way AIXGL takes
[12:52] <maxco> I think there is something to work on arround that, but I dont know very well where to go in
[12:54] <maxco> even google encounters problems when I ask him such questions :p
[12:57] <maxco> I wonder how OSX manage it
[12:58] <maxco> *is
[01:06] <sivang> maxco: hehe, but yes, discussinons like this might be more appropriate over #ubuntu-offtopic
[01:06] <maxco> yes sure :p
[01:06] <maxco> sorry I really need to talk about my ideas and thinking
[01:07] <maxco> I could write articles and make a website ... maybe
[01:09] <maxco> at least on such a channel, there are advanced users and developpers, not only newbie that dont understand something
[01:09] <maxco> *who
[01:49] <bddebian> Heya peoples
[02:36] <dilinger> anyone know what xserver-xorg is using libdiscover1 for?
[02:40] <infinity> dilinger: PCI ID -> video driver mappings?
[02:41] <dilinger> infinity: that's what i figured, but debian's doesn't seem to have it, there's no mention of it in the binary (strings /usr/X11R6/bin/X |grep disc), and it's not linked directly against it
[02:42] <infinity> The X server doesn't do it on the fly, just the debconf config stuff uses it.
[02:42] <dilinger> ah, i see
[02:43] <dilinger> shouldn't it be dep'ing on discover1, then?  it looks like it calls the binary itself in the .config file
[02:43] <infinity> It doesn't?
[02:43] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ apt-cache show xserver-xorg | grep Depends
[02:43] <infinity> Depends: xserver-xorg-core, xserver-xorg-driver-all | xserver-xorg-driver, xserver-xorg-input-all | xserver-xorg-input, x11-common, laptop-detect, xresprobe, mdetect, discover1, dmidecode
[02:44] <dilinger> oh, i misread
[02:44] <dilinger> nm then
[02:44] <dilinger> thanks
[03:46] <crimsun> would a main uploader take a look at ubuntu bug #43423 and apply one of the patches to fix subversion?
[03:46] <crimsun> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/subversion/+bug/43423
[03:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43423 in subversion "svn over https not working any longer" [Critical,In progress]  
[03:47] <infinity> crimsun: No patch required, since I'll be updating to 1.3.1, which supports the new NEON fine.
[03:47] <crimsun> infinity: ok, thanks for the heads-up.
[03:47] <infinity> (People use SVN over https?)
[03:48] <infinity> Actually, I should know that, since I had to fix a misfeature in apache2 for that same use case.
[03:48] <yves> I do.
[03:48] <infinity> (SVN over https with client certs = explodey after a security fix that broke a misfeature people had been relying on)
[03:49] <crimsun> infinity: the doc team does. And sorry about the duplicate comment.
[03:50] <infinity> Oh, if the doc team uses it, I'll prioritise the update and fix.
[03:50] <infinity> Since the doc team is the only group I can think of with a VALID reason to be using SVN on dapper *and* complaining about it. :)
[03:50] <infinity> (How dare they run an OS to document it!)
[03:53] <infinity> Anyhow, I'll fix it up right after I go get some lunch to work out my frustrations from the morning hackery. :)
[03:53] <bddebian> heh
[04:15] <sleazye> sleep stopped working after update today...think it was acpi...is this a known issue?
[04:16] <crimsun> sleazye: acpi-support_0.79?
[04:16] <crimsun> probably better addressed in #ubuntu-laptop
[04:18] <sleazye> yes 0.79
[05:41] <dreyes> anyone try installing zimbra????
[05:41] <dreyes> anyone here???
[05:42] <bddebian> Give me a sec
[05:42] <dreyes> well i followed this forum here http://wiki.zimbra.com/index.php?title=Building_the_software_yourself#CVS_Update
[05:43] <dreyes> and It installed okay except for a local host but it installed
[05:43] <dreyes> but I can't even log infinity 
[05:43] <bddebian> Oh, I thought you meant an Ubuntu package
[05:43] <infinity> dreyes: This doesn't belong in #ubuntu-devel.
[05:44] <dreyes> got ya see ya
[05:46] <whiprush> hey infinity 
[05:46] <whiprush> quick question for ya ...
[05:47] <whiprush> chances of you visiting ootb LDAP goodness during edgy?
[05:47] <infinity> whiprush: Decent, if you write me some coherent specs to look over in Paris.
[05:47] <infinity> whiprush: Poor otherwise, as it's not necessarily a personal goal of MINE.
[05:48] <ajmitch> whiprush: like NetworkAuthentication?
[05:48] <ajmitch> which I've put in for SoC
[05:49] <whiprush> ajmitch: from scanning the page, yep.
[05:49] <whiprush> ajmitch: coolness
[05:49] <ajmitch> whiprush: if it goes through, I should get client & server stuff done
[05:50] <whiprush> you messed around with FDS at all?
[05:50] <ajmitch> will be doing so
[05:50] <ajmitch> I haven't had that joy yet
[05:50] <whiprush> I've done so on one machine, I haven't played with it as far as the multi-master stuff goes
[05:52] <infinity> I haven't player with it at all yet.
[05:52] <whiprush> ajmitch: I've just kerberized our stuff at work, it's great stuff.
[05:52] <infinity> Is it "yet another slapd fork" with some extra glue?
[05:52] <ajmitch> nice
[05:52] <whiprush> Maybe my school will send our ldap guy to paris.
[05:52] <ajmitch> infinity: old netscape code
[05:52] <ajmitch> sadly I won't be in paris
[05:53] <infinity> ajmitch: Oh, ick.
[05:53] <whiprush> infinity: forked off the old netscape code
[05:53] <whiprush> then they spent a few months making the admin tools work with free java.
[05:53] <whiprush> it's not /bad/, but it's not entirely fun to use either, imo.
[05:53] <ajmitch> so I hope people don't spec too much that runs against what I'm working on :)
[05:54] <infinity> ajmitch: Well, I don't intend to spec anything LDAP-related for edgy, I have other fish to fry.  Since I'm likely the only core-dev who gives a crap about LDAP, that probably means you're safe.
[05:57] <bddebian> infinity: I gotta hand it to you man, I don't know how you deal with any/all these X bugs??
[05:57] <whiprush> infinity: they invented ldap like 45 minutes from me, and for the life of me I can't find anyone in their LUG or faculty willing to work on the stuff. :-/
[05:59] <infinity> bddebian: I ignore them until the nagging becomes overwhelming?
[06:02] <bddebian> infinity: Heh.  I wish I could help you more man :-(
[06:46] <dieman> yay
[06:46] <dieman> the school acm group finally passed on the ubuntu SoC email
[06:46] <dieman> to their student members on their jobs list
[06:46] <infinity> I'm unsure whether to love or hate the SVN testsuite...
[06:47] <ajmitch> dieman: the one where applications are due in < 24 hours?
[06:47] <infinity> It's saved my ass a few times..  But it also takes like 12 freakin' days to run on my 2GHz Pentium-M.
[06:47] <dieman> yeah
[06:47] <dieman> sadly
[06:47] <dieman> i sent them days ago
[06:47] <dieman> and someone decided to leave them in the queue, obviously
[06:47] <lifeless> infinity: wow. seriously?
[06:47] <infinity> lifeless: No, not quite 12 days.  That might be hyperbole.
[06:47] <lifeless> infinity: is it all blackbox tests ?
[06:47] <infinity> lifeless: It's rather comprehensive, however.
[06:48] <infinity> lifeless: EPARSE.  blackbox tests, meaning?  (I'm not a testing engineer)
[06:48] <lifeless> jdub: haha
[06:48] <bddebian> heh
[06:48] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:50] <infinity> Some of the magic (and pain) of the suite comes from the fact that many tests generate random repository scenarios on the fly to catch "bugs no one's though of yet".
[06:50] <infinity> Which has actually caught a few, which is neat, but is also hell on entropy.
[07:03] <bddebian> Gnight peopleses
[07:12] <infinity> fabbione: Your last GDB upload seems to have hosed the testsuite on other arches...
[07:12] <infinity> fabbione: More failures than before, and ia64 and powerpc even decided to hang.
[07:20] <Lathiat> BenC: about?
[07:27] <dieman> wow
[07:27] <pitti> Good morning
[07:27] <dieman> misfire, wrong chan
[08:39] <pitti> jdub: my evo greeted me with an 'invalid file format' for the fridge web cal this morning; any idea?
[08:50] <dholbach> good morning
[08:50] <Mithrandir> hiya daniel
[08:59] <neuralis> dholbach: have you seen anyone complaining about dapper video playback in multihead setups? a malone search reveals nothing useful.
[09:00] <dholbach> neuralis: I think there was one bug about multihead and totem, but that can have been upstream too.
[09:01] <neuralis> dholbach: it's a very serious regression from breezy that i only now noticed, and appears non-trivial to debug :/
[09:25] <kagou> hi
[09:43] <sivang> morning all
[09:46] <carlos> pitti: hi, I didn't get translation status mails for Saturday and Sunday, is there any problem with your scripts?
[09:47] <pitti> carlos: yes, I fixed it this morning, sorry
[09:47] <carlos> pitti: ok, no problem at all. Thanks
[09:47] <pitti> carlos: will work again today
[09:47] <pitti> carlos: btw, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MissingPotFiles looks pretty well now; can you confirm this list?
[09:49] <carlos> pitti: I think so, most of the .pot files were approved on Friday
[09:50] <pitti> yay
[09:52] <carlos> pitti: I still need to do the manual imports for some packages, will try to do it today so tomorrow we would get near 100% exports from Rosetta
[09:56] <sivang> jdub: when you come online, could you please add me to planel? please add http://sivan.linuxguru.net/ as a feed.
[09:56] <slomo> hi sivang :)
[10:20] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: is it you or ogra I should talk to about gss locking my screen (sometimes) when unplugging power?
[10:30] <hunger> Yahoo, resume works for me again with the new kernel.
[10:30] <hunger> Unfortunately the box shuts down right after it resumed.
[10:30] <Mithrandir> mvo: 30171 should be confirmed at least, shouldn't it?
[10:31] <Treenaks> hunger: Hey, it's a start :)
[10:32] <hunger> Treenaks: Yeap. And getting it to resume again should have been the hard part, too:-)
[10:32] <mvo> Mithrandir: yes. I currently sync by hand when I have time. I still need to figure how to merge unreleated trees in bzr then I can use the cvs import we have
[10:33] <Mithrandir> mvo: I'm going through unconfirmed bugs so if we could at least just confirm it, it'd drop off my radar for now.
[10:33] <mvo> Mithrandir: done
[10:34] <mvo> Mithrandir: sorry for not doing it earlier
[10:34] <Mithrandir> np
[10:37] <sabdfl> moin moin
[10:38] <sabdfl> anybody else see kernel 2.6.15-22 not properly install?
[10:38] <sabdfl> it does not show up in my boot menu
[10:38] <pitti> hi sabdfl 
[10:39] <danimo> moinw
[10:39] <danimo> where has the the fs_dav plugin for subversion gone?
[10:40] <danimo> in current dapper, it's not possible to access http urls anymore
[10:40] <danimo> webdav-based repos, that is
[10:40] <pitti> sabdfl: I just dist-upgraded, it worked fine for me
[10:41] <pitti> sabdfl: are the /vmlinux{,.old} symlinks correct?
[10:41] <sabdfl> pitti: yes
[10:41] <Toadstool> danimo: it's a known bug and has been fixed this night, the packages will be quickly available on your mirror
[10:42] <Toadstool> hi here by the way
[10:42] <pitti> sabdfl: and /boot/grub/menu.list still shows -21 for the default kernel /vmlinuz?
[10:42] <sabdfl> yes
[10:42] <pitti> hmm
[10:42] <pitti> that indeed seems to be a bug in the kernel postinst then
[10:42] <sabdfl> BenC: ping ^^^
[10:43] <pitti> sabdfl: sometimes I ended up with grub using the 'wrong' boot partition (after test installs, etc.), but that doesn't seem to be the case here
[10:43] <dholbach> sabdfl: a full /boot partition maybe? does  sudo update-grub  say anything?
[10:44] <danimo> Toadstool: ok, tnx
[10:44] <sabdfl> reinstalling gives:
[10:44] <sabdfl> Not touching initrd symlinks since we are being reinstalled (2.6.15-22.34)
[10:44] <sabdfl> Not updating image symbolic links since we are being updated (2.6.15-22.34)
[10:44] <pitti> well, the symlinks were okay anyway
[10:44] <pitti> update-grub should rewrite menu.list
[10:45] <sabdfl> interesting, grub is not installed
[10:45] <sabdfl> there is no chain of dependencies
[10:45] <pitti> oh, that explains the issue then :)
[10:45] <pvanhoof> there's something wrong with that new subversion package
[10:45] <sabdfl> why is grub not a dependency of -minimal?
[10:45] <pvanhoof> it can't handle https URL's
[10:46] <pitti> sabdfl: some people might want lilo
[10:46] <pitti> sabdfl: (I want lilo on my server, e.g.)
[10:46] <sabdfl> pitti surely we should depend on (lilo | grub)
[10:46] <pitti> sabdfl: indeed, the kernel should do (grub | lilo, even)
[10:46] <Kamion> getting grub installed is handled by the installer
[10:46] <thom> (some people might /have/ to have lilo, even if they don't want it)
[10:46] <Kamion> there's no infrastructure in -minimal for alternative dependencies at the moment
[10:47] <Kamion> -minimal doesn't depend on the kernel either, somewhat deliberately :)
[10:47] <sabdfl> Kamion: i think -desktop at least should have the (lilo | grub) dependency
[10:47] <Kamion> sabdfl: no infrastructure for it there either; germinate can't express that
[10:47] <sabdfl> i also noticed that ubuntu-artwork wanted to be removed over the w/e
[10:47] <pitti> thom: I never managed to get the grub equivalent of lilo's -R option working, so I just sticked to lilo on my server
[10:47] <sabdfl> Kamion: ok, i'm just suggesting its a bug that the user can end up with no boot loader updates
[10:48] <Kamion> sabdfl: well, only if they choose to remove packages :)
[10:48] <thom> pitti: i can't remember what -R is; I have seen machines that grub physically doesn't work on
[10:48] <pitti> thom: lilo -R linux.new boots the image linux.new once and then falls back to 'default='
[10:48] <sabdfl> Kamion: we have smart packaging systems to keep machines lean and mean, and if there is no dependency then the packages could well end up being removed
[10:48] <pitti> thom: a vital life saver if you have to adminstrate a remote server with only ssh (like I do)
[10:48] <thom> pitti: oh, cute
[10:49] <ajmitch> Kamion: are there a a few zope & python2.3-* packages in NEW at the moment?
[10:49] <Kamion> yes
[10:49] <ajmitch> ok
[10:49] <pitti> thom: so, with panic= and an init.d script which autoreboots after 5 minutes (at job), I'm fairly safe against screwing up in a kernel update, etc.
[10:50] <ivoks> Kamion: i noticed one bug in ubiquity (choosing croatian layout doesn't change a thing), so I'm wondering is this ubiquity bug or it has something to do with localisation packages?
[10:50] <thom> pitti: yeah. LOM for the win, really :-)
[10:50] <pitti> thom: LOM?
[10:51] <thom> lights out management
[10:51] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[10:51] <Kamion> ivoks: ubiquity bug I imagine
[10:51] <ivoks> Kamion: ok
[10:52] <Kamion> there are some related ones filed, but none for Croatian
[10:53] <ivoks> ok, i'll take a look
[10:53] <ivoks> thank you
[10:53] <pvanhoof> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/43526
[10:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43526 in Baltix "Since May 8 subversion cannot do https anymore" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[10:53] <pvanhoof> Can somebody move that to Ubuntu?
[10:53] <Kamion> pvanhoof: it's already fixed
[10:53] <pvanhoof> are you uploading a new package?
[10:53] <Kamion> and no, somebody can't move it to Ubuntu, look at the bug on the web
[10:53] <Kamion> it's already filed on Ubuntu
[10:53] <Kamion> pvanhoof: not me
[10:54] <pvanhoof> okay, thanks .. whoever fixed it
[10:54] <pvanhoof> *rolled libsvn and subversion back* I'll upgrade in a few hours and try again
[10:55] <pvanhoof> funny monday mornings when running dapper :)
[11:11] <sivang> Riddell: ping
[11:11] <czr> will xen be integrated in any form for dapper?
[11:11] <Mithrandir> no
[11:11] <czr> lack of time or some other reason?
[11:11] <phanatic> czr: i suppose feature freeze
[11:12] <czr> k. thanks for that info
[11:12] <Mithrandir> it's way, way, way too late now and nobody has spent the effort earlier.
[11:12] <phanatic> was long time ago
[11:12] <Mithrandir> It'd have been sweet if it had been pushed for five months ago, but it wasn't.
[11:13] <czr> what about the next version (what was it anyway?)
[11:13] <Mithrandir> edgy eft.
[11:13] <czr> yeah, that one :-)
[11:13] <czr> always have problems remembering the new names :-)
[11:13] <Mithrandir> somebody needs to expend the effort.  If a volunteer does it, I can't see it not being accepted.
[11:14] <czr> no one is working on it yet?
[11:14] <Mithrandir> I don't know if it'll be a high-priority goal.  Maybe, maybe not.
[11:14] <dholbach> czr: we're all focussing on getting the release ready.
[11:14] <Mithrandir> we're busy getting dapper out.  Nobody's supposed to focus on eft yet.
[11:14] <czr> dholbach, I understand
[11:15] <dholbach> czr: cool
[11:16] <czr> going to play with xen this week and since ubuntu is my fav distro just wanted to know if there are any plans. that's all :-)
[11:17] <dholbach> czr: you sound like a member of the XenTeam for next release, it seems ;)
[11:17] <czr> depends on how busy I'll be with other stuff :-)
[11:18] <czr> and depends on how well my playing with xen will go over, but from what I've understood, getting it to work isn't that hard. getting it integrated properly might be more pita.
[11:18] <sivang> czr: there's already some efforts to make it work out of the box, wait a sec I'll find you the link
[11:19] <czr> sivang, thanks
[11:19] <Mithrandir> czr: there's some very unofficial stuff, I think it was announced on ubuntu-devel some time ago.
[11:19] <czr> well there is a project for debian at least
[11:22] <sivang> Mithrandir: talking about what jmg's working on?
[11:23] <sivang> czr: It seems that link has been removed, and I'm reluctant to give you repository location without the howto.. try to contact jmg on IRC when he's online
[11:23] <Mithrandir> sivang: maybe that's what it is, I can't remember exactly.
[11:24] <czr> sivang, that's ok. I'm going to play with xen with my own system first (not ubuntu), just asked about plans (if any) about xen-'support' in the future
[11:24] <sivang> czr: jmg already has packages that install a patched dapper kernel and seems to go past installation, but I personally couldn't make the subdomains work, or connect to them..
[11:26] <Mithrandir> czr: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenVirtualMachine/XenOnUbuntuDapper has something
[11:26] <czr> I'm going to play with xen patched 2.6.16 running my own initramfs this week. so mainly the question was whether ubuntu will behave nicely running in a domU
[11:26] <czr> thanks Mithrandir 
[11:26] <janimo> Kamion: I am planning an upload which renames one of the xfce library binary packages. Can I ping you when it's built to let it out of NEW?
[11:28] <czr> anyhow, thanks for all the links & info, I'm going to stop the xen-questions now, you have better things to do :--)
[11:32] <Tonio_> hi
[11:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 34465 should be fixed now, or haven't you had the time to check?
[11:39] <zakame> hi all
[11:39] <Kamion> janimo: if it's urgent, yes
[11:39] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: theoretically me
[11:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh, yeah, that's a dup, I'll mark it as such
[11:40] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: I don't know the exact steps needed to reproduce it yet, but it happened to me this morning.
[11:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks.
[11:40] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: check your system logs from around that time
[11:41] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: g-p-m is supposed to log when/why it does things
[11:43] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: what does it use as its tag?
[11:46] <lucasvo> Anybody know what's the difference from embedded-ubuntu to 'miu'ubuntu?
[11:47] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: not a clue, grep -i for gnome ought to do it
[11:48] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: well, doesn't seem like it has logged anything here
[11:48] <Kamion> sabdfl: the problem with adding grub|lilo to metapackages is that it makes it difficult to set up a chroot and be confident that stuff inside the chroot isn't going to render your machine unbootable
[11:49] <Kamion> sabdfl: I think I'd rather make our smart packaging tools a little bit smarter, and tell them to try hard not to remove bootloaders
[11:49] <sabdfl> Kamion: ?
[11:49] <sabdfl> ok
[11:49] <sabdfl> what about depending on "boot-loader" and have three things that provide that: grub, lilo, and a dummy
[11:50] <sabdfl> then you can put the dummy in the chroot
[11:50] <Kamion> dunno, sounds fiddly to get the chroot created properly then, but I suppose it's possible
[11:51] <Kamion> I'd probably better not dive into that morass today though :)
[11:53] <sabdfl> np
[11:53] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: Hmm, then it's possible it wasn't g-p-m
[11:56] <lucasvo> !seen alizardo
[12:10] <Kamion> infinity: was it you who was apparently halfway through doing a retchmail sync?
[12:14] <infinity> Kamion: Nope.  Blame Keybuk.
[12:24] <Riddell> sivang: pong
[12:25] <sivang> Riddell: let me know if this is legite, or helps in any way https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/43459
[12:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43459 in amarok "dh_iconcache added." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:26] <Riddell> sivang: I've no idea, I've not looked at dh_iconcache at all, you'd need to ask a gnome packager
[12:26] <sivang> Riddell: k, thanks alot.
[12:27] <pitti> doko: could you please take a look at merging/syncinc libstruts1.2-java from sid? (new upstream microversion fixes three security bugs, but we have ubuntu specific java changes)
[12:27] <doko> pitti: ok
[12:27] <pitti> doko: thanks
[12:34] <pitti> slomo: do you feel like merging ethereal with Sid, to fix a plethora of vulns?
[12:34] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: There's no mention of g-p-m there at all?
[12:36] <slomo> pitti: hm, write me a mail with all packages and i'll get this done over the week whenever i have some free minutes :)
[12:36] <pitti> slomo: just ethereal
[12:36] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: grep for " because "
[12:36] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: if that produces nothing then I'm not sure what happened.
[12:36] <slomo> pitti: oh how boring :) it's on my todo list now... is there a bug about this?
[12:36] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: nothing since May 5th.
[12:37] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: do you have any of your actions set to "blank screen" ?
[12:37] <pitti> slomo: I don't know, I just spotted it in ubuntu-cve (I repaired debian changelog parsing)
[12:38] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: when laptop lid is closed, yes.
[12:38] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: so you unplugged ac and that caused it to do laptop-lid-close action?
[12:38] <Kinnison> yargh
[12:38] <Kinnison> quality
[12:38] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: apparently, yes.
[12:38] <slomo> pitti: hm this would get us a new upstream version... maybe i'll just backport the fixes... i'll take a closer look later
[12:38] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: can you run g-p-m in --no-daemon --verbose mode and log it all to a file, and then prod around and try and reproduce it?
[12:39] <pitti> slomo: as you wish, but I think you don't really want to backport ~10 security fixes for ethereal (the new upstream release does not much (nothing?) else anyway)
[12:39] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: I can see if I can reproduce it first, though I don't really know where to start, given that it doesn't reproduce magically
[12:39] <slomo> pitti: well... it's 0.10.something -> 0.99... sounds scary :) but i didn't take a look at the changes yet
[12:39] <pitti> slomo: oh, I see, our version is even older; hmm
[12:39] <pitti> slomo: thanks
[12:40] <chris_^> ... just a little question - you know that nvidia modules don't work in dapper with 2.6.15-22?
[12:40] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: it sounds like g-p-m's internal notion of where the lid was is confused
[12:40] <slomo> pitti: np :)
[12:40] <pitti> chris_^: did you update linux-restricted-modules as well?
[12:40] <chris_^> pitti: yes
[12:40] <pitti> hm
[12:40] <chris_^> on my gaming machiene (even my dapper test machine), there is with 2.6.15-21 the error message "can't load module nvidia"...
[12:40] <pitti> chris_^: incidentially I have to reboot for the new kernel (and nvidia) as well, let's see
[12:41] <chris_^> no, with 15-22
[12:41] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: because it does the lid-close-on-battery action when ac is removed andit thinks the lid is closed
[12:41] <chris_^> with 15-21 working well
[12:41] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: yeah, something like that
[12:42] <Kinnison> Irritatingly it seems to lose events sometimes
[12:42] <Kinnison> esp if lid changes occur during syspend/resume cycles
[12:42] <Mithrandir> that might very well have happened.
[12:43] <Kinnison> It's really hard to debug these kinds of breakages, and even harder to fix
[12:43] <Kinnison> it'd be easier if we had a reliable way to query if the lid was open or closed
[12:44] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state
[12:44] <Mithrandir> state:      open
[12:44] <Mithrandir> ?
[12:44] <Kinnison> it's not always reliable
[12:44] <Kinnison> stupor% cat button/lid/LID/state
[12:44] <chris_^> pitti: working all well?
[12:44] <Kinnison> state:      closed
[12:44] <pitti> chris_^: works fine here
[12:44] <Mithrandir> heh, ok
[12:47] <chris_^> pitti: ohh, i think restricted modules are missing
[12:47] <chris_^> just thought apt has installed new version.. grml
[12:48] <pitti> chris_^: yes, I dist-upgraded, rebooted, no problem
[12:48] <chris_^> pitti: i dist-upgraded, rebootet, linux-restricted-modules-2.6-15-22-686 or so is missing..
[12:48] <chris_^> but installed it, worked..
[12:49] <infinity> This brings up a point, actually.
[12:49] <infinity> Does anyone think it would be horribly heavy-handed for me to make linux-restricted-modules-$(KVER)-$(FLAVOUR) depend on linux-$(FLAVOUR)?
[12:50] <infinity> It's obviously incorrect, but it would mean that people who install LRM manually will be pretty much forced from there on it to have kernels and LRM in sync on upgrades.
[12:50] <pitti> chris_^: you need to have the metapackages
[12:50] <infinity> chris_^: Installing "linux-686" would solve your issue for future upgrades.
[12:51] <pitti> infinity: sounds like a good circumvention of this common bug; Recommneds: maybe?
[12:51] <infinity> pitti: Users don't pay attention to Recommends, so it wouldn't solve the bug, really.
[12:51] <chris_^> infinity: yes, thanks.. bye :)
[12:51] <infinity> pitti: My rationale was basically that people who want LRM probably want their hand held in this fashion anyway, so it's not THAT bad. :)
[12:52] <pitti> infinity: only apt-get install doesn't respect recommends, right? anyway, a depends would be just fine for me
[12:52] <pitti> infinity: I don't see a reason why anyone using ubuntu kernels would not want to have the metapacakges anyway
[12:52] <infinity> pitti: apt-get can be told to, but it won't by default.  Even dselect and aptitude let you NOT install them, though (obviously).
[12:53] <pitti> infinity: right, but if I do aptitude install -R, I probalby have a reason (i. e. opt-out instead of opt-in)
[12:53] <infinity> Fair point.
[12:54] <infinity> Unfortunately, several dozen HOWTOs out there say "if you need to install fglrx/nvidia, invoke "apt-get install nvidia-glx linux-restricted-modules-`uname -r`"
[12:54] <pitti> still, I don't object against Depends:, it's just that using recommends: would be more correct
[12:54] <pitti> uh
[12:54] <infinity> And since users tend to just follow such docs blindly and have no idea what they mean...
[12:54] <infinity> (And no, I can't go fix every bad doc I run across..)
[12:54] <infinity> Though I'd love to.
[12:55] <pitti> ok, you convinced me
[12:55] <infinity> Yeah, I'll asl a few more people, so it's not just a committee of two, but I think this abuse of Depends is the lesser of two annoyances.
[12:56] <infinity> (You should see all the bugs LRM gets filed when stable kernels have ABI bumps)
[12:56] <infinity> s/asl/ask/
[01:01] <Mithrandir> Kamion: bug 29810 should be rejected with "if you want to preseed from a floppy, make sure your initrd includes something that provides mountfloppy"?
[01:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29810 in debian-installer "mountfloppy package not installing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29810
[01:12] <Riddell> mvo: mornfall got this backtrace on qt-language-selector http://rafb.net/paste/results/1QvmkW44.html
[01:13] <Riddell> mvo: installed from his chroot so might be a missing dependency
[01:13] <Riddell> I can't recreate it
[01:13] <mvo> Riddell: thanks, can I get a bugreport about it please? I'll check it out then
[01:13] <Kamion> Mithrandir: but AFAIK our cdrom initrd *does* include mountfloppy ...
[01:14] <Kamion> oh, not in breezy apparently
[01:14] <Kamion> so fix released, not rejected :) I'll look up when it was fixed
[01:15] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks.
[01:17] <doko> pitti, Mithrandir: no clue about norwegian, but shouldn't language-support-no depend on myspell-nn | myspell-nb ?
[01:18] <pitti> Mithrandir, doko: I can add these, no problem
[01:18] <Mithrandir> pitti: econtext?
[01:20] <pitti> Mithrandir: adding muyspell-{nn,nb} to language-support-no
[01:20] <Mithrandir> pitti: that'd be useful, I think.
[01:24] <Kamion> doko: have you noticed that openoffice.org-l10n 2.0.2-2ubuntu5 FTBFS?
[01:24] <Kamion> doko: and was openoffice.org-help-lt intentionally removed?
[01:25] <infinity> Kamion: He knows that it's FTBFS (it's been tried twice now).  Even mentioned investigating said FTBFS in the last distro meeting. :)
[01:25] <Kamion> oh, right, missed that
[01:26] <pitti> Mithrandir: done
[01:28] <doko> Kamion: yes, I would like to know why, build ok outside the buildd. -lt: yes, not translated, and we fall back to english anyway
[01:28] <Kamion> pitti: could you remove openoffice.org-help-lt from language-support-lt's dependencies, then?
[01:29] <infinity> doko: Are you positive it builds okay in a completely clean chroot?
[01:29] <infinity> doko: I can do some test builds and keep a build tree for you.
[01:29] <doko> infinity: I'll recheck with my next update
[01:30] <pitti> Kamion: done
[01:33] <Kamion> thanks
[02:06] <^robertj> q. who determines the stylesheet for the ftp pages
[02:07] <^robertj> I still feel cheated if something is blue and underlined and not a hyperlink
[02:10] <phaidros> where are the changelogs for dapper packages in the www ?
[02:12] <seb128> phaidros: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/<package>/+changelog ?
[02:13] <phaidros> tahnx :)
[02:13] <seb128> np
[02:13] <seb128> not sure that's what you are looking for though
[02:13] <Amaranth> changelogs.ubuntu.com works too
[02:14] <janimo> Kamion: if one binary pkg from a source is NEW, does it prevent the other binary build from same source and version to enter the archive as well? Not sure if archive is lagging well behind LP publisher or the former
[02:14] <janimo> libxfce4util4 should be binary NEW soon
[02:14] <seb128> phaidros: other way http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool
[02:14] <Amaranth> either way i don't think they show up right away
[02:15] <Amaranth> if a package just hit the archives and you want to know what changed you have to apt-get source it
[02:16] <Kamion> janimo: yes
[02:16] <Kamion> uploads happen in units of .changes files
[02:19] <janimo> Kamion: ok, whenever you have time then please let it out of NEW,  I'd like to rebuilt the ~40 xfce packages against it. thanks
[02:20] <janimo> also, the moment it appears in the archive, is it safe to assume the buildd daemons will see it too in the same time?
[02:20] <Kamion> janimo: yes
[02:22] <janimo> sivang: do not bother with xfce4-trigger-launcher, I plan to fix it FTBFS and get some bugfixes in at the saem time
[02:22] <janimo> thanks
[02:23] <sivang> janimo: sure thing, sorry for the noise then.
[02:23] <Kamion> janimo: accepted
[02:23] <janimo> sivang: np, actually it made me aware of the bug being opened (known about it outside LP). same for wavelan
[02:23] <janimo> Kamion: thanks
[02:24] <sivang> janimo: good to know I've done some good with going over the unmetdeps :)
[02:24] <janimo> ;)
[02:24] <mvo> infinity: nvidia-settings is no longer required and nvidia-glx provides all that is required?
[02:25] <mvo> infinity: (bug 
[02:25] <mvo> infinity: #43485)
[02:26] <^robertj> does anyone else get the hibee-jibees seing blue underlined text that isn't a hyperlink?
[02:28] <Fjodor> HAs anyone looked at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libx11/+bug/40761?
[02:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40761 in libx11 "Most X apps warn about locale not supported" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[02:35] <carlospc> ping Kamion
[02:36] <Kamion> carlospc: hello
[02:37] <carlospc> hi, Raphael Hertzog point me to you 
[02:37] <carlospc> i'm thinking in recoding debian-cd
[02:37] <carlospc> and i just want to talk a little bit with you about that
[02:38] <Kamion> you'd be better to talk with Steve McIntyre, really, unless you need to know about Ubuntu-specific details
[02:38] <Kamion> Steve's had a gradual rewrite in the works for a while
[02:39] <sivang> doko: package 'zope' is uninstallable in dapper currently, making zope-zshell uninstallabel as well due to unemtdeps. is there a scheduled sync for that or should dependency be changed?
[02:41] <janimo> Kamion: sorry for the noise, but am not familiar with the timings of the syncs between various machines in the DC. You let the package out of NEW, and it's built but not in the archive yet.
[02:42] <doko> sivang: zope was removed from dapper
[02:42] <Kamion> janimo: buildds produce binary uploads, which are uploaded to the queue, and may require NEW processing
[02:42] <Kamion> janimo: NEW processing moves the upload from the NEW queue to the ACCEPTED queue
[02:42] <Kamion> janimo: every hour, the publisher processes whatever's in the ACCEPTED queue
[02:43] <Kamion> janimo: when the publisher finishes, newly-accepted uploads are visible in the archive
[02:43] <janimo> Kamion, thanks I'll paste this to a file
[02:46] <sivang> doko: okay, which means then that zope-zshell should be removed as well, as the dependency will never be satisfied.
[02:48] <doko> sivang: no, please request a sync
[02:48] <janimo> dholbach: hi, if  you think it's ok  I can handle the libgoffice + gnumeric patch. New abiword-plugins also need the separate goffice handling as otherwise they dep on gnome
[02:51] <sivang> doko: okay, you mean then that zope is replaced with zopeX.X ? (by 'removed' , that is)
[02:52] <ivoks> Kamion: there is no croat layout, only hr
[02:52] <ivoks> Kamion: croat was for console-tools iirc
[02:56] <Kamion> ivoks: yes I'm talking about the console layout
[02:56] <Kamion> ivoks: for dapper, the installer (including ubiquity) deals in console layouts and relies on X code to convert
[02:56] <Kamion> we'll be revisiting that after dapper
[02:57] <ivoks> ok
[02:57] <ivoks> i'll file a bug
[02:58] <ivoks> quick fix would be linking croat with slovene keyboard, since they are the same
[03:02] <Mithrandir> sladen: around?
[03:03] <Kamion> anyone mind if I upload xorg to fix some keyboard configuration bits?
[03:03] <ivoks> no :)
[03:04] <Kamion> s/anyone/any X maintainers/ ;-)
[03:05] <ivoks> Kamion: that would be great since we are in the middle of translation marathon and it would be a shame if everything is translated, but keyboard doesn't work on install :/
[03:05] <infinity> mvo: nvidia-settings was never "required", but yes, nvidia-glx completely replaces it.
[03:05] <infinity> mvo: Same for nvidia-xconfig.
[03:05] <Kamion> ivoks: you can stop trying to persuade me to fix the bug now :)
[03:06] <ivoks> Kamion: ok
[03:06] <ivoks> Kamion: sorry :)
[03:06] <mvo> infinity: thanks, i was looking over the upgrade logs and noticed that sometimes the dist-upgrade has trouble with it and removes nvidia-glx instead of nvidia-settings. I guess nvidia-settings is needed for people who prefer the "nv" dirver over the glx one?
[03:06] <mvo> infinity: otherwise I could add a rule to auto-remove nvidia-settings on upgrade (but I guess that is not a good idea ...)?
[03:08] <infinity> mvo: No, nvidia-settings and nvidia-xconfig are to configure the binary driver.
[03:08] <infinity> mvo: The newest nvidia-glx just happens to include those apps in it.
[03:08] <infinity> mvo: So, iff the user is upgrading nvidia-glx, make sure it wins over those two.
[03:08] <ivoks> Replaces:
[03:08] <infinity> mvo: OTOH, if they have nvidia-glx-legacy installed, there's no conflict there.
[03:09] <infinity> ivoks: Replaces means "overwrites"... Conflicts is correct in this case.
[03:09] <infinity> ivoks: "Replaces" just means "replaces one or more files from the other package"
[03:09] <ivoks> i tought overwrite is wanted method... if not conflict is ok
[03:10] <infinity> mvo: If it helps hint apt's problem resolver, I can change the conflict to a conflict/replace pair, but those are "wrong", IMO (and we only ever used them in the past to work around dpkg bugs)
[03:11] <mvo> infinity: hmm, currently the apt problem resolver seems to cope well with the situation. I could add a new type of rule to the dist-upgrader: "if A is installed: remove B " sort of
[03:24] <_ion> Cool, the new version of gajim uses notification-daemon.
[03:32] <sivang> doko: are you going to change all zope2.8 dependencies away from python-*2.3 ? currently zope2.8 is not installable, so I can't even test if the sync would help. and I feel I must test it myself before requesting the sync, or can I just go ahead, and when zope2.8 is fixed, assume zope-zshell will be as well?
[03:32] <sfllaw> When our kernel panics, does it leave anything to look at somewhere?
[03:36] <doko> sivang: why should I change them from 2.3?
[03:37] <sivang> doko: well, (excuse me I'm way wrong with this) - zope2.8: Depends: python2.3-xml but it is not installable
[03:38] <doko> sivang: right, the joy of main/universe
[03:39] <bddebian> Morning folks
[03:39] <doko> copy the python-xml source to python2.3-xml, and build onl ythe python2.3-xml package. 
[03:40] <sivang> doko: I thought zope in general (at least, current version) is supposed to be in main no?
[03:40] <janimo> sfllaw: if it locks up and you reboot then there's no log of the panic
[03:40] <doko> sivang: no, because it's not validated for 2.4
[03:41] <sivang> doko: ah, I see. okay, thanks for the tip, will try it out.
[03:41] <janimo> sfllaw: but if it's something you can reproduce and want to have written down it can be done
[03:42] <doko> sivang, Kamion: bug #35998 (ajmitch says, this is in NEW)
[03:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35998 in zope2.8 "zope2.8 uninstallable" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35998
[03:42] <sladen> Mithrandir: yes
[03:42] <sivang> doko: ah ha! thanks.
[03:43] <Mithrandir> sladen: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/31953 ; have you observed this on any machines yourself?
[03:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31953 in syslinux "isolinux/gfxboot should use 640x400 not 640x480" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[03:48] <neutrinomass> sladen: (feel free to ignore this if you're busy) I'm the OP of #36353 and you were trying to track down the solution but we lost it somewhere. Thanks.
[03:52] <sladen> Mithrandir: not directly.  I was based on bug reports for various Acers(?) that won't get past syslinux in that resolution.  I'd knock down the priority until somebody comes up with a direct report (or I'll cross-reference it when I next come across one)
[03:52] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: I may be able to use hal's knowledge of the laptop lid state to augment g-p-m's understanding
[03:53] <sladen> Kinnison: there's a patch to hal (not sure whether I uploaded it) that refreshes the status of the lid/etc on unsuspend/unhibernate
[03:54] <sladen> Kinnison: debian/patches/12_refresh_acpi_states.patch if I uploaded it
[03:54] <ogra> infinity, ping
[03:54] <bddebian> Heya ogra
[03:55] <Kinnison> sladen: I'll just look
[03:56] <Kinnison> sladen: looks like we lack that one
[03:57] <Kinnison> sladen: can you mail me that patch so I can look at it?
[04:00] <sladen> Kinnison: http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/hal_0.5.7-1ubuntu12-refresh_acpi_states.debdiff  check that it applies okay
[04:02] <coz_> the bug i reported was fixed.... thanks to all who were responsible... the bug was dapper not bboting reporting that Ubuntu-root did not exist....thanks again
[04:03] <bddebian> Sheesh, even ogra doesn't love me anymore :'-(
[04:03] <bddebian> :-)
[04:03] <bddebian> ogra: What's up with you lately?  You swamped with edubuntu?
[04:04] <zakame> hmm I can still request syncs right? =)
[04:04] <bddebian> zakame: Sure you can
[04:04] <zakame> hi ogra , bddebian 
[04:04] <ogra> bddebian, yep and some RL stuff
[04:04] <bddebian> Hello again zakame :-)
[04:04] <bddebian> ogra: Ah :-)
[04:04] <zakame> bddebian: cool!
[04:05] <zakame> elmo: ping, please sync kdrill from debian per bug 28810
[04:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28810 in kdrill "undeclared dependency on libXp6" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28810
[04:06] <bddebian> zakame: I think you have to move that bug to a synce request on LP?
[04:06] <bddebian> s/synce/sync/
[04:06] <elmo> zakame: I don't do syncs anymore, please read up on the wiki and/or u-d-a archives about the new procedure
[04:07] <bddebian> elmo: Are you still the only one for @ubuntu.com e-mail though?
[04:07] <sivang> zakame: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources , "Syncs" section.
[04:07] <Kinnison> sladen: I had to fix one of the hunks but I'm building a test package now
[04:07] <elmo> bddebian: dude, already answered you about that
[04:07] <bddebian> elmo: You said No Way
[04:08] <zakame> elmo, sivang, bddebian: aye, thanks :D
[04:08] <siretart> elmo: I'm curious, do backports still go via you or should requests go via ubuntu-archive as well?
[04:14] <zakame> hmm I gather this sync also requires an UVF exception approval?
[04:15] <bddebian> zakame: If its a new version and not just a release/bugfix, yes
[04:15] <Kinnison> sladen: well it didn't break my laptop's suspend/resume
[04:15] <zakame> ok
[04:15] <zakame> thanks for clarifying :D
[04:18] <Kinnison> sladen: I'll upload it soon
[04:19] <bddebian> Kamion: ping?
[04:22] <slomo> ogra: any news with dia 0.95?
[04:22] <ogra> slomo, oh, thanks for reminding 
[04:22] <ogra> not yet ...
[04:23] <slomo> ogra: np :) i would love to have this in...
[04:29] <infinity> ogra: Quick ping before I head t obed.
[04:30] <ogra> infinity, any idea to bug 39294
[04:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39294 in ltsp "No ldm login on the thinclient" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39294
[04:30] <ogra> seems the initscript doesnt get that its on console 7 by whatever reason
[04:31] <ogra> ldm starts up fine, i see the theme coming up and then the usplash script switches back to vt 1
[04:34] <ogra> the hacksaw method would be to just blacklist the usplash initscript in ltsp-build-client, but thats rather a bad workaround to the prob i think
[04:42] <Kinnison> Has anyone here noticed bizarre firefox behaviour on launchpad bug listings? My cursor keeps flickering between the link ptr and the normal arrow when moving over links on bug listings)
[04:43] <Kinnison> s'not always happening, just sometimes
[04:46] <infinity> ogra: Check /etc/init.d/gdm, which stops usplash before it runs GDM.
[04:46] <Kamion> bddebian: yo
[04:47] <bddebian> Kamion: Do you have a minute for a side conversation (or the patience to deal with me for that matter?) :-)
[04:47] <Kamion> bddebian: sure
[04:47] <ryan_rousseau> Hello everybody!  Are there any SoC mentors here that would be interested in mentoring a project aiming to replace KWordQuiz with a full featured quizzing system with a GTK interface? =)
[04:48] <joelbryan> what's a mentor?
[04:48] <phanatic> ryan_rousseau: a very last minute try :)
[04:49] <joelbryan> what's a SoC mentor?
[04:49] <ryan_rousseau> joelbryan: a google summer of code mentor
[04:49] <lucasvo> joelbryan: Google Summer of Code mentor
[04:49] <joelbryan> what's that? is like a project manager?
[04:49] <ryan_rousseau> phanatic: well, I submitted my proposal yesterday, and I was talking to pygi and he gave me the hint to come hunting for a willing mentor
[04:50] <phanatic> ryan_rousseau: okay, i wish you luck...
[04:50] <bddebian> Kamion: Did you get my /query?
[04:50] <ryan_rousseau> phanatic: thanks much
[04:51] <joelbryan> I made some gtk+ apps over the last days, it's the Ubuntu Welcome Center. I got an screenshots
[04:51] <sladen> Kinnison: yes.  It's not just on launchpad.net pages, and if you switch to a different tab and back, it'll disappear.  I reported it as a bug somewhere
[04:51] <ogra> infinity, thanks
[04:51] <ogra> :)
[04:52] <joelbryan> anyone like to see it?
[04:52] <Kinnison> sladen: okies, ta
[04:52] <ryan_rousseau> joelbryan: the mentor guides a student that is working on a project for their organization over the summer 
[04:53] <joelbryan> ryan_rousseau: is it someone who provide the contents for the student to code it?
[04:54] <sladen> Kinnison: bug #32448 if you fancy confirming it
[04:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32448 in firefox "Statusbar flashes between $url and "Done." hovering over links" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32448
[04:54] <joelbryan> check out the Ubuntu Welcome Center, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/joelbryan?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=Screenshot-Ubuntu+Welcome+Center.png
[04:54] <joelbryan> other screenshots are the attachments
[04:56] <ryan_rousseau> joelbryan: I don't believe so.  I think the main role for the mentor is to monitor the student's progress, to make sure they are keeping up their end of the bargain, and to give advise when needed
[04:56] <neutrinomass> There's this problem with a usb modem here, made by a local company but based on an accessrunner chipset. The kernel driver exists, but needs binary only firmware. I want to phone them to ask permission for distribution with Ubuntu : What should I ask for exactly ? And in the unlikely case that they grant it (written), will it make it to the main cd (not neccessarily dapper)? Sorry if this is OT and please redirect me to the right cha
[04:56] <ryan_rousseau> joelbryan: very cool screenshots
[04:58] <joelbryan> ryan_rousseau: it's the half-done work, I got alot of progress with it, w/c I have not yet made an screenshtos
[04:59] <ryan_rousseau> joelbryan: what language are you using, C?
[04:59] <joelbryan> yeah
[04:59] <joelbryan> GTK+ 2.0 and C
[05:01] <ryan_rousseau> very nice
[05:01] <joelbryan> thanks
[05:01] <joelbryan> There's a lot of thing you can do with GTK+
[05:02] <_ion> Btw., there's a typo: "X Windows System"
[05:02] <joelbryan> you can do javascript mouse-over effects in GTK
[05:02] <ryan_rousseau> yeah, GTK is very cool, I mostly do PyGTK development
[05:05] <joelbryan> _ion: what's the right spelling for that?
[05:05] <_ion> joelbryan: X Window System
[05:06] <trappist> if I'm, say, a moron and I accidentally send an email to launchpad that was meant to go to an individual, and if that message contains sensitive information, is it possible to get the comment removed from the bug?
[05:06] <Chipzz> _ion: I think the initial spelling was right
[05:07] <_ion> :%g/Ubuntu is build on Debian/norm fdrt
[05:07] <_ion> :%s/\<alot\>/a lot/
[05:07] <trappist> _ion: that one is a pet peeve of mine
[05:07] <_ion> Updates...ensures  drop the s
[05:08] <Chipzz> _ion: X windows system yields 314 million reults on google, while X window system only yields 148 million
[05:08] <_ion> Documentations  ditto
[05:08] <_ion> chipzz: man Xorg
[05:09] <_ion> chipzz: See the bottom.
[05:10] <flapane> i have problems with flash and realplayer 32bit on my amd64
 http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=995208#post995208
 who can help me?
[05:11] <ogra> flapane, #ubuntu
[05:11] <flapane> ok
[05:11] <flapane> tnx
[05:11] <joelbryan> some changes in Samba description too, "allows you to connect to networks using other operating systems" should I change it to "DOS based operating system"
[05:19] <infinity> joelbryan: Uhm, "DOS based"?
[05:19] <infinity> joelbryan: In whose world are all CIFS/SMBFS-using operating systems "DOS-based"?
[05:20] <joelbryan> infinity: I change it to windows based, still couldn't decide if I'll use Microsoft Windows based
[05:20] <infinity> joelbryan: It's not just windows-based, either.
[05:20] <thom> joelbryan: people using CIFS all over the place
[05:20] <infinity> joelbryan: Netware serves CIFS/SMBFS.
[05:20] <thom> joelbryan: it's fine as is
[05:20] <infinity> joelbryan: And most UNIX operating systems now do as well.
[05:21] <mvo> siretart: hi! I noticed that you can reproduce bug #38958? could you please apply http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13630 and tell me what the ouput is then?
[05:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38958 in unattended-upgrades "spawning cron error messages" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38958
[05:22] <joelbryan> I'll use Netware, Windows, and most Unix.
[05:24] <sladen> joelbryan: fantastic work, I love the screenshots.  It should save journalists alot of work :)
[05:24] <joelbryan> thanks, it's press information right into your desktop.
[05:24] <joelbryan> lolz :-)
[05:27] <joelbryan> I still got some problems with the netstatus-applet not displaying the right interface when boot from Windows, or change the modem from different NIC's. anyone can apply this fix? Bug #42100
[05:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42100 in gnome-netstatus-applet "Fix the wrong device registered in netstatus applet, and automatically set it to the first working network connection." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42100
[05:27] <siretart> mvo: err, my file currently looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13631
[05:27] <siretart> mvo: your patch doesn't seem to match my version, I think
[05:27] <mvo> siretart: *cough* thanks
[05:28] <siretart> ;)
[05:31] <siretart> mvo: just tell me if I can do anything else for you
[05:31] <Kamion> any Greek users here? I'd like to know what the right X keyboard configuration for Greek is
[05:33] <neutrinomass> Kamion: How can I help you ?
[05:33] <Kamion> neutrinomass: is XkbLayout "us,gr" with XkbOptions "grp:alt_shift_toggle" (matching our configuration for other non-Latin languages, so that you can type Latin usernames and stuff) a reasonable keyboard configuration for you guys?
[05:34] <Kamion> I noticed that our xserver-xorg package doesn't automatically configure Greek properly
[05:35] <neutrinomass> Just a moment ....
[05:35] <Kamion> people might prefer XkbVariant "nodeadkeys" or something like that as well, not quite sure
[05:37] <neutrinomass> Kamion: Sorry, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. I remember that adding greek was simply a matter of adding a keyboard layout .
[05:37] <Kamion> ok, if you've only ever done it by means of the GNOME keyboard configurator or whatever, fair enough
[05:38] <neutrinomass> Kamion: Ok, sorry that I can't be of more assistance. :(
[05:38] <Kamion> never mind, I'll fumble along as best I can, I guess
[05:57] <pitti> trappist: ping
[05:57] <trappist> pong
[06:21] <atincjon> have an issued with ia32-libs, and was recommended to talk to doko, or mithrandir.
[06:21] <BenC> what's the issue?
[06:21] <carlospc> Kamion?
[06:22] <carlospc> sorry, after we got a problem at the office
[06:22] <carlospc> aghh,
[06:22] <atincjon> ia32-libs pthread version is different than 64bit version, and cancelation has changed, making code not compile correctly
[06:22] <carlospc> i mean before
[06:24] <atincjon> compiling for 64bit on x86_64 works fine, but compiling for 32bit target on same machine fails due to pthread_cleanup_push macros
[06:27] <Burgwork> mako, you around?
[06:29] <Keybuk> yeah, you want to speak to doko or Mithrandir :)
[06:29] <Kamion> carlospc: yes?
[06:29] <Kamion> carlospc: did you see my earlier comments?
[06:30] <atincjon> key: any idea when that could happen?
[06:30] <BenC> atincjon: how are you compiling for 32-bit, and do you have ia32-libs-dev?
[06:31] <BenC> are you using the linux32 command prefix?
[06:31] <atincjon> using gcc -m32 foo.c
[06:31] <BenC> try linux32 gcc -m32 foo.c
[06:31] <BenC> just for kicks
[06:32] <atincjon> no linux32?
[06:33] <atincjon> n/m got it, same thing
[06:33] <carlospc> ouh
[06:33] <carlospc> yes
[06:33] <Keybuk> atincjon: what's the actual error you get from gcc?
[06:33] <carlospc> about steve
[06:33] <atincjon> test.c:(.text+0x78): undefined reference to `__pthread_register_cancel'
[06:33] <carlospc> i've already talked to him
[06:34] <carlospc> Raphael Hertzog point to you
[06:34] <BenC> atincjon: gcc -m32 -pthread foo.c
[06:34] <carlospc> maybe you are looking for new features
[06:34] <atincjon> anyone know a paste link? cmd is gcc -m32 test.c -lpthread
[06:34] <pitti> Hi BenC, how are you?
[06:34] <carlospc> i'm doing a new spec
[06:34] <BenC> pitti: hey, good...how about you?
[06:34] <carlospc> kamion, you can found it here: http://wiki.debian.org/debian-cd-ng
[06:34] <pitti> pretty fine :)
[06:34] <BenC> atincjon: use -pthread instead of -lpthread
[06:35] <Keybuk> atincjon: always use -pthread not -lpthread
[06:35] <atincjon> no change.
[06:35] <BenC> atincjon: email me the file, if you can, bcollins@ubuntu.com
[06:35] <pitti> carlos: I just fixed buildd langpack import, mesa required an override (that's why there was no tarball today); doing now
[06:35] <atincjon> ok, only 14 lines
[06:35] <mako> Burgwork: yes
[06:35] <mako> Burgwork: a little distracted but around
[06:36] <carlos> pitti: ok, thanks
[06:37] <Kamion> carlospc: ok, the biggest things we do to debian-cd are (a) rip out all its dependency-handling brains and tell it to just do what germinate says instead (probably wouldn't be appropriate for Debian because germinate doesn't have anything corresponding to the concept of multi-CD sets)
[06:37] <atincjon> BenC: sent
[06:37] <BenC> atincjon: ok, give me a second to try it
[06:37] <Kamion> carlospc: (b) add a mode to rip out more of its brains so that it can build live CDs
[06:37] <Kamion> carlospc: (c) standard stuff to add Ubuntu suites
[06:38] <doko> BenC: thanks.
[06:38] <carlospc> i've modified a little bit germinate for guadalinex purposes
[06:38] <Kamion> carlospc: if you want to have a look through the changes I made, they're in arch, 'baz register-archive http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2005; baz get colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/debian-cd--ubuntu--0'
[06:39] <Kamion> it's a bit of a mess to be honest
[06:39] <Kamion> but works :)
[06:39] <BenC> root@phoenix:~# gcc -m32 -pthread foo.c -o foo
[06:39] <BenC> root@phoenix:~# ./foo
[06:39] <BenC> Hello World!
[06:39] <BenC> Goodbye World!
[06:39] <doko> atincjon: you won't find a complete 32bit development environment; if you really want to develop for ia32, please create a chroot use it for your development
[06:39] <carlospc> thanks ;) i'm in charge of the generation of Guadalinex, so i know about this a long time ago :D
[06:39] <BenC> atincjon: works perfect for me
[06:39] <Kamion> ok
[06:39] <BenC> atincjon: I'm running latest dapper
[06:40] <atincjon> guess it's time to change up then. 
[06:40] <BenC> # uname -r
[06:40] <BenC> 2.6.15-22-amd64-k8
[06:40] <carlospc> the live cd feature will be hard to integrate
[06:40] <BenC> are you running breezy?
[06:40] <atincjon> yes.
[06:40] <BenC> ah, sorry, can't test that quickly
[06:40] <Kamion> carlospc: yeah, no good ideas on that
[06:41] <Kamion> ultimately it's "get big blob of data from somewhere, shove it on CD, don't worry about adding packages to the CD"
[06:41] <atincjon> BenC: thanks for sorting that out.
[06:42] <carlospc> anyway, i'm trying to design something that could be easy to hack
[06:42] <carlospc> i've already thinked in use some code of germinate
[06:42] <Kamion> the biggest problem I have TBH is the bootloader configuration
[06:42] <Kamion> it's reimplemented in totally different ways for every architecture
[06:43] <Kamion> which makes it hard to unify boot options etc. across architectures
[06:43] <dholbach> Kinnison: you rock! I can't wait to test the new gpm
[06:43] <Kinnison> dholbach: thanks dude
[06:43] <Kinnison> dholbach: my finger hurts now, but I think it's worth it
[06:44] <Kamion> Steve's concern is primarily making it efficient, so stuff like JTE, figuring out how to pack .debs onto CD sets in the most efficient way, integrating better with mkisofs to keep track of CD size on the fly so that we don't have to have hardcoded guesses at how much space will be taken up by bootloaders
[06:44] <Kamion> that sort of thing
[06:45] <carlospc> ok
[06:45] <Kamion> hackability as such is not my biggest concern, although fixing the boot script nightmare would help hackability a lot more than the mere fact of a rewrite
[06:45] <carlospc> of course
[06:45] <Kamion> though the make/shell business isn't the easiest system in the world to handle well, I concede
[06:46] <wasabi> Don't suppose anybody has used swapd?
[06:47] <carlospc> Well, i'm sure that python business have a lot to say here
[06:47] <wasabi> Looks interesting...
[06:47] <carlospc> Thanks a lot Kamion
[06:47] <Kamion> you're welcome
[06:47] <carlospc> i'm going to continue writing the spec
[06:49] <Kinnison> Kamion: Do you remember being asked about a UVF exception for powernowd 0.97 ?
[06:49] <Kinnison> Kamion: back toward the end of march?
[06:49] <Kinnison> Kamion: I was trawling through my bug lists and found the stuff I did back then for it. I'm just tidying up the changelog and wondered if it'd be okay to upload
[06:49] <_ion> wasabi: From what i've read, swap files shouldn't have any real overhead compared to swap partitions nowadays.
[06:50] <wasabi> Yeah, they shouldn't. Just curious about the actual software package swapd. Doesn't seem to be "working". Wondering if anybody actually knows/cares.
[06:50] <wasabi> Or if there's an alternative.
[06:50] <wasabi> I like the idea of it creating swap files on demand when memory gets low.
[06:50] <ivoks> pitti: i have one issue with locales package
[06:51] <Kamion> Kinnison: it's still in my inbox, yes
 Are there any other changes?  Is there a proper changelog?
[06:51] <ivoks> pitti: i located the source of the problem and would like to talk about it with you when you have time
[06:51] <Kamion> never saw an answer to that
[06:51] <pitti> ivoks: fire away :)
[06:51] <ivoks> pitti: problem with time-admin is that, when you select Belgrade, Zagreb or Ljubljana
 if you want to follow up to the mail with detail, please do
[06:51] <Kinnison> Kamion: aah. I don't think there's a proper changelog
[06:51] <ivoks> pitti: on next start it shows Sarajevo
[06:51] <Kamion> er, s/<Kinnison>/Kinnison:/
[06:51] <mdz> Kinnison: I already approved it; there's a bug open
[06:51] <Kamion> aha
[06:52] <Kinnison> mdz: I couldn't find which bug was the approval
[06:52] <ivoks> pitti: problem is in locales package, not time-admin program
[06:52] <Kinnison> mdz: last related bug I found was the question from paul
[06:52] <mdz> Kinnison: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/powernowd/+bug/41432
[06:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41432 in powernowd "Only scales one CPU" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[06:52] <Kinnison> mdz: aye that's the one I mean
[06:52] <mdz> Kinnison: it's assigned to you
[06:52] <ivoks> pitti: in locales source, there is file debian/tzdata2006b.tar.gz
[06:52] <Kinnison> mdz: I know, hence I was trying to get it fixed :-)
[06:53] <ivoks> pitti: wich holds info about timezones
[06:53] <Kinnison> mdz: If you say you've confirm it's oakay I'll go for it :-)
[06:53] <ivoks> pitti: it links Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Slovenia and Macedonia
[06:53] <Kamion> Kinnison: the second-to-last comment in that bug is an approval, as I read it
[06:53] <pitti> ivoks: hm, they all seem to be in the same time zone?
[06:53] <Kamion> right, I am officially bored of keymaps for today
[06:53] <Kinnison> Kamion: okay, thanks
[06:53] <ivoks> pitti: they are, but Vienna is too, but when you select Vienna, it stays Vienna
[06:54] <ivoks> pitti: problem is in tzdata2006b.tar.gz in locales source
[06:54] <ivoks> pitti: all these states are linked to Serbia
[06:54] <ivoks> pitti: but when time-admin looks for timezone
[06:54] <carlos> pitti: when do you think your script will be ready?
[06:54] <ivoks> pitti: it catches first on alphabeticly
[06:54] <ivoks> pitti: and that's Bosnia (Sarajevo)
[06:54] <carlos> pitti: I need to leave soon and want to do some basic checks to improve the data for tomorrow's export
[06:54] <pitti> carlos: buildd tarball is there; just started the merging script 5 minutes ago, give it ~ 30 minutes
[06:55] <carlos> ok
[06:55] <carlos> thanks
[06:55] <ivoks> pitti: roughly speeking, we are all in one state with 6 capitals :)
[06:58] <carlos> pitti: btw, I think you told me that you were preparing a gcompris package that generates the .pot file
[06:58] <carlos> pitti: it's not yet fixed or I misunderstood you
[06:58] <pitti> carlos: hm, I uploaded it, maybe it FTBFSed, lemme check
[06:59] <pitti> ivoks: ah, I see; is there a bug about it?
[06:59] <pitti> ivoks: I need to discuss that with jbailey
[06:59] <ivoks> pitti: i don't think so :/
[06:59] <pitti> carlos: hm, it built, I'll check the tarball
[07:00] <ivoks> pitti: it is a cosmetic bug, but it's time to fix these mistakes (yugoslavia fall apart 16 years ago...) :)
[07:01] <pitti> ivoks: so, they shouldn't be symlinks, but file copies, or time-admin should respect symlinks?
[07:02] <ivoks> pitti: no, in file Europe, after you extract tzdata2006?.tar.gz (located in locales/debian) every country has it's timezone decription
[07:02] <ivoks> pitti: all these countrys are linked to one (in that file)
[07:03] <ivoks> pitti: that was ok 20 years ago, when we had YU (and not BiH, HR, SCG, SI, FYROM) :)
[07:03] <pitti> ivoks: right, high time then :)
[07:04] <pitti> carlos: ah, it's because I suck and forgot the intltool build dependency
[07:04] <ivoks> pitti: that's langpack-locales-*/debian, not locales/debian
[07:04] <carlos> pitti: :-P
[07:04] <carlos> ok
[07:04] <pitti> ogra: do you have a pending gcompris upload?
[07:06] <ogra> pitti, nope
[07:06] <ogra> go ahead :) thanks for asking 
[07:06] <pitti> ogra: ok, I need to add a b-dep; I assume I can upload without disturbing you then?
[07:06] <pitti> ok
[07:07] <Kinnison> dholbach: the hal, g-p-m and powernowd stuff should all be building in this cycle and be published in the next
[07:07] <dholbach> Kinnison: super!
[07:12] <pitti> carlos: fixed package uploaded
[07:13] <carlos> pitti: ok, thanks
[07:17] <lamont> mdz: thoughts?
[07:20] <pitti> carlos: script finished
[07:21] <carlos> pitti: ok, thanks
[07:21] <carlos> pitti: you got 3 new translation domains?
[07:23] <pitti> carlos: yes, for mesa, and probably from seb128's gnome fixes
[07:23] <carlos> pitti: so you need to filter them out, right?
[07:35] <mdz> lamont: what bug?
[07:37] <_ion> Yay. \o/
[07:39] <Keybuk> heh, for a second there I was reading that as a window manager bug ...
[07:41] <lamont> mdz:   * Release NFSv4 support. Closes: #302420, #239031, #290873
[07:41] <lamont> mdz: ubuntu 43581 and 27425
[07:41] <lamont> which were rejected this AM by someone
[07:42] <lamont> Laurent Bigonville <l.bigonville@edpnet.be> to be specific
[07:43] <lamont> mdz: the bug that was keeping it out was that it broke nfs-user-server (v2) because of some sloppy error handling in probing for version 4, 3, 2.
[07:43] <_ion> Do you think the best behavior for notification-daemon is to open the notifications on the first xinerama screen, or would it be necessary to make the screen configurable in order for the patch to be accepted?
[07:50] <LaserJock> anybody know anything about sponsorship for Paris?
[07:53] <Surak> Hello
[07:54] <Surak> I've been reading google SoC wiki - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2006 but there are no directions on how someone can apply to some project. 
[07:54] <Burgwork> Surak, you have 7 hours, so start writing quickly
[07:55] <Surak> it's not me, but someone here. He already has it written, but doesn't know where to apply
[07:56] <sladen> Kinnison: ta for doing the upload
[07:56] <Burgwork> Surak, ah, hmm. #gnome-hackers on gimp.net is currently talking about it
[07:57] <Kinnison> sladen: no problem
[08:00] <mdz> lamont: that sounds fine then
[08:01] <mdz> lamont: nobody in their right mind uses nfs-user-server anymore anyway ;-)
[08:01] <mdz> LaserJock: the wiki page should have information about sponsorship
[08:04] <LaserJock> mdz: It seems to just have a signup sheet, no contact info or info on when the decisions will be made
[08:05] <LaserJock> which is pretty important for people wishing to be sponsored
[08:17] <mroth> BenC: The ipw3945 driver in -22 is currently with broken WPA support (not properly reporting card's capabilities to the system).  There appears to be a bug fix for it (and some other things) upstream (see bug 41214).  Think there is a chance to get the WPA patches in, or perhaps just the entire version of bug fixes?
[08:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41214 in linux-source-2.6.15 "ipw3945 WPA Patch" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41214
[08:29] <sladen> mroth: if you can pull out the necessary patches (likely very simple if it is just changing the capabilities advertised by the driver), then that would make it easier to fix
[08:30] <ogra> mdz, oh, sorry, my changelog entry was confusing, indeed i stop usplash it in the ltsp-client.init script (which i use to think of as ldm's initscript)
[08:31] <ogra> in fact i just copied the code form the gdm initscript to the ltsp-client initscript
[08:33] <bddebian> Why is libkwiki-perl arch all but only has an amd64 build?
[08:33] <BenC> mroth: I'll see
[08:33] <mroth> sladen: looks like everything else in the version bump is just a bug fix, it might be simpler just to go with the most recent version?
[08:34] <Fjodor> Anyone looked at #40761?
[08:35] <mroth> although if not, the patch is already at http://www.bughost.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1013 , it appears to be a massive 4 lines of code changed :-)
[08:35] <sladen> mroth: can you file that analysis as part of the bug report
[08:35] <mroth> sladen: its already in bug 41214 in the first two posts, thats where I found it myself
[08:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41214 in linux-source-2.6.15 "ipw3945 WPA Patch" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41214
[08:36] <sladen> mroth: ah, okay
[08:36] <mroth> if you look at the changelog I linked though, bumping up to 1.0.2 would probably be desirable, or at least 1.0.1 which seems to fix a few other capabilities bugs
[08:37] <mroth> (1.0.2 and 1.0.3 are both single bug fix releases)
[08:37] <bddebian> arrgh and why can't LP find the package libkwiki-perl?
[08:37] <bddebian> Oh, it's NEW
[08:42] <BenC> mroth: ok, 1.0.3 is in my tree now, so next upload
[08:42] <mroth> BenC: neat.  is there a pre-build you want me to test, since the cycle for -23 binary upload will probably be a while.
[08:44] <BenC> mroth: not really, but you are welcome to check out git and do a test build
[08:47] <mroth> BenC: sorry, not familiar with the git process, but I'd be happy to help out and give it a try if someone points me towards the documentation
[08:50] <mdz> ogra: ok, good
[09:27] <BenM> seb128, ?
[09:27] <seb128> hi BenM
[09:27] <BenM> hey
[09:28] <BenM> so, about gnome-panel, there's a nice new thing in g-s-m to help you measure
[09:28] <seb128> ah, nice :)
[09:28] <BenM> because of the new version Daniel uploaded, the `writable memory' column is an accurate measure of private rss
[09:28] <BenM> i'll blog about this sometime tonight
[09:28] <seb128> cool
[09:28] <seb128> I've tried to patch gnome-panel for the applets yesterday
[09:29] <seb128> but had some issues with the autotools patch
[09:29] <BenM> oh, yeah
[09:29] <BenM> that was nasty
[09:29] <BenM> i hacked my install
[09:29] <BenM> i did some serious manual tinkering to get a demo for myself
[09:29] <seb128> (since we modify the Makefile.am...)
[09:29] <BenM> it involved forcing dpkg
[09:29] <BenM> to avoid figuring out how to work with debs :-)
[09:30] <seb128> ;)
[09:30] <seb128> running the autogen.sh should work (it does usually)
[09:30] <seb128> I'll have an another try now
[09:30] <BenM> cool, thanks
[09:30] <BenM> i really appreciate you doing the work to get this into dapper
[09:31] <BenM> btw, between this patch, and the icon cache work
[09:31] <BenM> I think the default gnome memory usage is less than 100mb
[09:31] <seb128> nice :)
[09:31] <BenM> i was able to get it down to that at one point
[09:32] <seb128> do you have a such patch for the trash applet?
[09:32] <BenM> actually, no
[09:32] <BenM> i mean, it should be copy&paste
[09:32] <BenM> (the mixer applet might be another target...i don't know how far you want to go; the mixer applet sucks though because it loads the whole fucking gstreamer framework)
[09:33] <seb128> I think we will keep it to that for dapper, I might have a try on the trash applet, but dapper is for soon and we have other bugs to fix too ...
[09:33] <BenM> trash applet is surely doable
[09:33] <BenM> that'd be a good win
[09:34] <BenM> (agreed about other bugs though... there are a few major ui things. the tabs in pango is pretty visible, also the stupid metacity windows)
[09:35] <BenM> hrm, thinking about the g-s-m thing. i wonder if Writable Memory should be made the default number
[09:35] <seb128> BenM: so basically I look to the "Writable Memory" column of the new gnome-system-monitor?
[09:35] <BenM> yes
[09:35] <BenM> i'm 99% sure that's right
[09:35] <seb128> cool
[09:35] <seb128> looks like
[09:35] <BenM> (my mirror hasn't updated yet, i'll confirm for you tonight)
[09:35] <seb128> wnck-applet has 3.9MB
[09:35] <BenM> if you run my smem.pl script
[09:36] <seb128> which matchs what you described
[09:36] <BenM> and the private dirty rss is the same
[09:36] <BenM> yeah
[09:36] <BenM> i owe whoever patched that a beer if he's at guadec
[09:36] <seb128> what "tabs in pango"? for evolution mail compose you mean? or does it affect something else too?
[09:36] <BenM> i think it may affect otherapps
[09:36] <BenM> i could try
[09:36] <seb128> dholbach and I will likely be at GUADEC :)
[09:37] <BenM> or is it only gtkhtml
[09:37] <seb128> I know about it for gtkhtml and pinged upstream about it yesterday
[09:37] <BenM> it might be just that
[09:37] <BenM> i saw the ping
[09:37] <seb128> if that's an issue with an another app let me know
[09:37] <BenM> i might be imagining things
[09:37] <BenM> i'm a bit overloaded at the moment ;-)
[09:38] <seb128> hehe
[09:38] <seb128> we know that too (being overloaded) ;)
[09:38] <BenM> if i had more time, i'd actually work more on gnome perf
[09:38] <BenM> rather than just bitch :-)
[09:38] <seb128> I'll ping behdad tomorrow about that gtkhtml issue to know where he suggests to do the change
[09:39] <seb128> I would not call that "just bitch", you actually then patches too ;)
[09:39] <BenM> i copied the patch from suse's rpm
[09:39] <seb128> hum
[09:39] <BenM> granted, i wrote it and gave it to federico
[09:39] <seb128> is that supposed to drop the binaries for those?
[09:39] <BenM> a while ago :-)
[09:40] <BenM> hrm?
[09:40] <seb128> it changes them to a .so, right?
[09:40] <BenM> yes
[09:40] <BenM> and another g-p package takes /usr/lib/*
[09:40] <seb128> k, the package built correctly
[09:40] <BenM> be careful :-)
[09:40] <BenM> this is where i used --force :-)
[09:40] <seb128> but I got the binaries dropped, so I was wondering ;)
[09:42] <BenM> so, for g-p, would changing writable memory to be the default memory related column be in the realm of possabilities for dapper
[09:42] <BenM> maybe with a name change
[09:42] <BenM> the column actually *means* something
[09:42] <BenM> (much more than can be said for other stats)
[09:43] <tseng> hi BenM 
[09:44] <BenM> hey!
[09:44] <seb128> BenM: yeah, we changed the CPU column to use PU instead of CPU Time today, so no problem for that :)
[09:45] <BenM> ok, i'll file a bug
[09:45] <BenM> actually, we should really do Writable Memory + X Memory
[09:46] <BenM> that  will help with say....firefox :-)
[09:47] <lamont> mdz: OK.  uploading util-linux_2.12r-4ubuntu5 with just the nfsv4 support changed, unless you scream soonish.
[09:48] <mdke> seb128: syntax highlighting not working in gedit for this: http://pastebin.com/705996 Do you need a bug report?
[09:50] <BenM> ok, filed https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-monitor/+bug/43677
[09:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43677 in gnome-system-monitor "Meaningful default memory stats" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[09:51] <BenM> that was quick
[09:56] <seb128> mdke: what is wrong about it? how did you name it?
[09:56] <seb128> BenM: thank you ;)
[09:57] <BenM> np
[09:57] <BenM> i should be around this week, if you need anything else
[09:57] <BenM> next week i'll be really busy
[09:57] <BenM> first week at google
[09:57] <mdke> seb128: no syntax highlighting. I didn't name it, it's a file from docbook-xsl
[09:58] <seb128> mdke: naming it .xml works fine
[09:58] <Treenaks> :set syntax=xml
[09:58] <Treenaks> works too
[09:59] <mdke> seb128: try: /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/fo/pagesetup.xsl
[09:59] <mdke> that was the file
[09:59] <BenM> seb128, thanks again for all the work
[09:59] <seb128> mdke: that's likely because application/xslt+xml is not listed as known type by gtksourceview, I'll fix it
[10:00] <seb128> BenM: you're welcome, thank you for the patches for that ;)
[10:00] <mdke> seb128: :)
[10:12] <slomo_> j^_: ping?
[10:13] <j^_> slomo_ pong
[10:13] <slomo_> j^_: what name do you want in the changelog for your seahorse patch? :)
[10:14] <Keybuk> heh, now this is an answer I've always wanted :)
[10:14] <thom> heh
[10:14] <Keybuk> "Thanks to j^ for" is lacking something
[10:15] <j^> hehe, j^ or j is fine with me, if you need names Jan Gerber should do
[10:16] <slomo_> ah Keybuk :) do you have an idea why nm-applet wouldn't really show up in the notification area but only a bit of space is reserved for it? maybe an icon problem but i wasn't able to find the cause on a friends laptop where this happens... i know of at least two people with this problem but don't have it myself
[10:16] <seb128> mdke: gtksourceview fix uploaded
[10:16] <Keybuk> slomo_: it doesn't start at all if there's a missing icon 
[10:17] <Keybuk> could you install the -dbg version and figure it out?
[10:17] <slomo_> Keybuk: i already did... everything wents fine and it runs the gtk main loop forever only the icon isn't shown (but you see that some place is reserved for it, maybe 10 pixels)
[10:18] <Keybuk> no idea :-/
[10:18] <mdz> lamont: fine by me
[10:18] <Keybuk> seb or dholbach may be more help
[10:18] <Keybuk> they know gnome
[10:19] <seb128> slomo_: do you have a transparent panel?
[10:20] <slomo_> seb128: nope... only more or less the default settings (and it isn't caused by the used gtk or icon theme)
[10:21] <seb128> so no idea
[10:22] <slomo_> ok *sigh* i'll try to continue debugging it tomorrow
[10:26] <jlhamilton> are there jigdo files for the dapper live cds?
[10:26] <Mithrandir> no, it wouldn't make any kind of sense.
[10:30] <Lure> jlhamilton: but rsync is quite efficient on them if you have previous (older) live CD
[10:32] <FunnyLookinHat> but how many people would that apply to?  ; )
[10:34] <OetmetG> I want to develop an application that disables a synaptic touchpad when a USB mouse is attached to the laptop... what technologies should I learn? DBUS? HAL?
[10:38] <Keybuk> X would be the first one you'd have to learn
[10:39] <Keybuk> you'd have to rewrite it so that it's possible for X to react to new devices
[10:39] <Keybuk> right now it can only use the devices plugged in when it starts
[10:40] <OetmetG> X?
[10:40] <Keybuk> X11
[10:40] <Keybuk> the thing that lets you move the mouse and point it at windows, etc.
[10:40] <Keybuk> Xorg if you prefer
[10:40] <OetmetG> isn't HAL a hardware layer on the top of X11?
[10:40] <tseng> no
[10:40] <Keybuk> no
[10:41] <Keybuk> HAL is just a list of the plugged in hardware
[10:41] <tseng> its a hardware layer on top of hardware
[10:41] <Keybuk> which is largely pointless in Linux ;)
[10:41] <Keybuk> but it also does give dbus events for hardware changes
[10:41] <OetmetG> I have developed using X11.. but it's horrible
[10:41] <OetmetG> I don't want that
[10:41] <tseng> there are higher level toolkits than libx11
[10:41] <Keybuk> you wouldn't have to develop *using* X11, you'd have to develop X11 itself
[10:42] <Keybuk> ie. make fundamental changes to the X server
[10:42] <OetmetG> wait
[10:42] <OetmetG> using synclient TouchPadoff=1
[10:42] <OetmetG> disables the touchpad
[10:42] <OetmetG> I just want to make a front-end to that
[10:42] <mjg59> Only if the X config is modified
[10:42] <Keybuk> that assumes a specific X configuration
[10:42] <OetmetG> the main problem is detect when a USB mouse is connected
[10:42] <mjg59> OetmetG: Hal is the right layer for that
[10:42] <Keybuk> it assumes that there's an input device for /dev/input/mice with the standard driver
[10:42] <OetmetG> yes, only if the x config has the right conf
[10:43] <Keybuk> and it assumes the synaptics touchpad has a separate input device
[10:43] <Keybuk> and that shmconfig is enabled
[10:43] <Keybuk> etc.
[10:43] <Keybuk> also I'm not sure that TouchPaddoff=1 actually really turns it off
[10:43] <thom> and that shmconfig's not a gaping secuity hole
[10:43] <OetmetG> so I just need to know if a usb mouse has been attached (using HAL?) and then execute the synclient in the "background"
[10:43] <Keybuk> on some laptops it just turns off the driver
[10:43] <Keybuk> and the touchpad still works, because it's sending ordinary mouse events through /dev/input/mice
[10:45] <OetmetG> mmm
[10:45] <OetmetG> well I don't want to develop a generic application.. only a front-end to synclient and synaptic touchpads
[10:45] <Keybuk> anyway, all that aside, if all you want to do is run that command whenever a mouse is plugged in, and an opposite command when the last mouse is unplugged, then yes -- you want to use HAL
[10:46] <OetmetG> nice.. HAL and GTK# would be right
[10:46] <Keybuk> remember that you'd also need to set the initial state -- if there's a mouse plugged in when X starts, you don't get a HAL message for that
[10:48] <OetmetG> yes
[10:48] <OetmetG> you're right
[10:48] <OetmetG> well I guess I'd have to learn HAL
[10:49] <OetmetG> thank you Keybuk
[10:49] <OetmetG> I have a clearer idea now
[10:50] <mdke> seb128: thanks a lot, I'll check it works
[10:51] <seb128> mdke: np
[10:52] <dholbach> Riddell: so Ellen will be Kubuntu hacker soon? :)
[10:52] <jlhamilton> i still think that jigdo is more convenient than rsync
[10:52] <Riddell> dholbach: are you reading planet kde?
[10:53] <dholbach> Riddell: yeah
[11:13] <jcole> we want to provide a kernel (with corresponding restricted modules package) to our employees that has the infamous REGPARM enabled for our VPN software apani netlock to work... what is the "streamlined" and clean way to do this? i've looked at the wiki and it doesn't mention how to simply rebuild the restricted modules package and when i rebuild a kernel, it's name is kernel-image-... not linux-image-... like the stock ubuntu kernels
[11:15] <jcole> ah, i think dpkg-buildpackage makes a linux-image-... and make-kpkg makes a kernel-image-...
[11:43] <Riddell> Kamion: did you get my e-mail about the isolinux splash?
[11:49] <jcole> "OpenLogic to Pay Open-Source Developers for Support Services" - http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1958756,00.asp
[12:00] <dholbach> night