[12:04] if I want to improve the look and the feel of the ubuntu desktop, I think I have to get involved into Gnome instead of ubuntu ? [12:15] maxco: you can do that, or you can work on stuff in ubuntu which can get used by larger communities if appropriate [12:15] yes [12:15] but the "appropriate" word hurt me a little bit [12:17] if I want to inovate a bit, I cant very much because users dont want to break what they are used to [12:17] I think to the "spatial" browsing of nautilus for exemple === dborg` [n=daniel@e182051019.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:19] I think that community does not let you to experiment new design, new concepts of the user interface, etc ... because they just dont have ideas about what thing could be added to improve the user-friendlyness, where dev/designer could === JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-165-202-116.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:20] then, they just use what they know, when they looks a new feature on windows/macos, they want the same on linux, some things like that === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:21] sort of, yes, we;ve had a couple of those I think [12:22] but linux really have to get a design update [12:22] maxco: if you have a suggestion or so, feel free to add it to the wiki as a specification, or discuss it over the mailint lists for broader consideration. [12:22] oh, yeah okay === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:23] maxco: if you want to change the way the desktop is, then I think you better work it out upstream [12:23] maxco: =GNOME,KDE etc.. [12:23] yes, what I though [12:24] I am currently using xfce ( but with some gnome tools ) and I really like the way that xfce takes [12:25] they take care about user/computer interface and standards ( I mean freedesktop ones ) [12:26] I think I could get a touch with its devs [12:27] maxco: Doesn't GNOME also follows those standards? [12:28] less than xfce does ? [12:28] or maybe in the past they dont [12:28] dont know very well [12:29] I really like gnome, I use it as well as xfce [12:30] but somethings disturb me, like some designs and the slowness of gtk === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:32] I think I could start by developping my ideas concretely and propose them to Gnome/xfce devs [12:32] but I want to keep a link to ubuntu, because I really love this distrib [12:33] maxco: okay, then you can do that in two leverls. [12:33] levels, even [12:33] maxco: 1) work with Xubuntu developers and propose your ideas. sometimes things are accepted in ubuntu, then upstream sees its good and decids to adopt them. === elbarto [n=elbarto@85.60.10.65] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:34] maxco: 2) work and propose stuff directly to XFce developers, I know they are already in contact with some of the Xubuntu developrs, and pushing ideas back and forth. [12:34] okay cool, I will do that === _jdong [n=jdong@d192-24-132-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:36] I just have a little question : how linux devs works on the last cvs version of a project without breaking all their system with dependencies problems ? [12:37] because if you want to work on the last version of a tool, you need to get the last version of the libs [12:37] maxco: I generally keep chroots for that sort. [12:38] chroots ? you make a little system inside your usual one ? [12:38] maxco: indeed. [12:39] maxco: some break their system and then waste time restoring it, like me :) some use chroots, yes [12:39] oh good idea ! === sivang onces b0rked his /etc/passwd when working on system-tool-backends === j_ack [n=nico@p508DB4C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:39] :p [12:40] crimsun: have you been doing work on dh_iconcache ? === sivang looks for someone a bit more knowledgeable about this. [12:40] it is so hard to work on a big project on linux ... mainly because of the libs/headers dependencies ? [12:41] sivang: I haven't -- been embroiled in other bugs, sorry. [12:41] crimsun: no problem, thanks anyway ;) [12:42] maxco: hard is relative. Usually each big project has it's own stack of development tools and build ways, once you control those, it becomes easy I think [12:42] yes of course [12:43] but unflexibility breaks innovation ( it is only my advice ) [12:44] erm, s/advice/opinion === maxco is french === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-66-121.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ssam [n=ssam@80-41-58-151.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:45] maxco: sure, but sometimes when a system is responsible for so many things, there is not escape from complexity and size.. [12:45] maxco: taking the approach of componentization could help alot in this cases, though. [12:45] yes yes I agree [12:46] I am thinking to xfree/xorg [12:46] exactly [12:47] the result is that they become unappropriate for today needs, and you need to make some hacks like xgl === Mithrandir [n=tfheen@c5100BC63.inet.catch.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:48] even they was well-designed at the begining [12:49] if on day a guy say "hey I want my desktop being managed only by opengl", you can wait a very long time before this guy release his idea [12:49] it is the way AIXGL takes === jdong_ [n=jdong@d192-24-132-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:52] I think there is something to work on arround that, but I dont know very well where to go in === jdong_ [n=jdong@d192-24-132-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:54] even google encounters problems when I ask him such questions :p [12:57] I wonder how OSX manage it === maxco are sorry to "think" on the chan [12:58] *is [01:06] maxco: hehe, but yes, discussinons like this might be more appropriate over #ubuntu-offtopic [01:06] yes sure :p [01:06] sorry I really need to talk about my ideas and thinking [01:07] I could write articles and make a website ... maybe [01:09] at least on such a channel, there are advanced users and developpers, not only newbie that dont understand something [01:09] *who === lakin [n=lakin@S01060013101832ce.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong_ [n=jdong@d192-24-132-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _jdong [n=jdong@d192-24-132-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === czr [n=czr@cs183171.pp.htv.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman [n=gman@nwkea-socks-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong_ [n=jdong@d149-67-101-201.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin [n=vx@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:49] Heya peoples === maxco [n=max@d80-170-33-89.cust.tele2.fr] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Quitte"] === lakin [n=lakin@S01060013101832ce.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dilinger [n=dilinger@207.210.101.209] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:36] anyone know what xserver-xorg is using libdiscover1 for? [02:40] dilinger: PCI ID -> video driver mappings? [02:41] infinity: that's what i figured, but debian's doesn't seem to have it, there's no mention of it in the binary (strings /usr/X11R6/bin/X |grep disc), and it's not linked directly against it [02:42] The X server doesn't do it on the fly, just the debconf config stuff uses it. [02:42] ah, i see [02:43] shouldn't it be dep'ing on discover1, then? it looks like it calls the binary itself in the .config file [02:43] It doesn't? [02:43] (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ apt-cache show xserver-xorg | grep Depends [02:43] Depends: xserver-xorg-core, xserver-xorg-driver-all | xserver-xorg-driver, xserver-xorg-input-all | xserver-xorg-input, x11-common, laptop-detect, xresprobe, mdetect, discover1, dmidecode [02:44] oh, i misread [02:44] nm then [02:44] thanks === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong_ [n=jdong@d149-67-101-201.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nekohayo [n=jeff@ip216-239-86-31.vif.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nictuku [n=yves@ubuntu/member/nictuku] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _jdong [n=jdong@d149-67-101-201.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@134.Red-83-49-51.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong_ [n=jdong@d149-67-101-201.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=nico@p508DB4C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === smurf [n=smurf@debian/developer/smurf] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:46] would a main uploader take a look at ubuntu bug #43423 and apply one of the patches to fix subversion? [03:46] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/subversion/+bug/43423 [03:46] Malone bug 43423 in subversion "svn over https not working any longer" [Critical,In progress] [03:47] crimsun: No patch required, since I'll be updating to 1.3.1, which supports the new NEON fine. === yves [n=yves@ubuntu/member/nictuku] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:47] infinity: ok, thanks for the heads-up. === dilinger [n=dilinger@207.210.101.209] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [03:47] (People use SVN over https?) [03:48] Actually, I should know that, since I had to fix a misfeature in apache2 for that same use case. [03:48] I do. [03:48] (SVN over https with client certs = explodey after a security fix that broke a misfeature people had been relying on) [03:49] infinity: the doc team does. And sorry about the duplicate comment. [03:50] Oh, if the doc team uses it, I'll prioritise the update and fix. [03:50] Since the doc team is the only group I can think of with a VALID reason to be using SVN on dapper *and* complaining about it. :) [03:50] (How dare they run an OS to document it!) === infinity loves that neon's API is so painfully unstable that SVN upstream has to maintain such a silly "working list" in their source treee in the first place. [03:53] Anyhow, I'll fix it up right after I go get some lunch to work out my frustrations from the morning hackery. :) [03:53] heh === _jdong [n=jdong@d149-67-101-201.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kyral [n=Kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kyral [n=Kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-devel === truz24 [n=truz24@12.203.73.176] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kyral [n=Kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sleazye [n=ongardie@ppp-70-246-18-54.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:15] sleep stopped working after update today...think it was acpi...is this a known issue? [04:16] sleazye: acpi-support_0.79? [04:16] probably better addressed in #ubuntu-laptop [04:18] yes 0.79 === lakin_ [n=lakin@S01060013101832ce.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === FliesLikeABrick [n=Ryan@about/rpi/rawdor] has joined #ubuntu-devel === yves is now known as nictuku === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.30] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.4.123.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === poningru [n=poningru@pool-71-251-119-149.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@134.Red-83-49-51.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-devel === imbrandon [n=brandon@unaffiliated/imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lakin_ [n=lakin@S01060013101832ce.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bpuccio [n=brian@ool-457a9c38.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dreyes [n=dreyes@c-68-52-35-43.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:41] anyone try installing zimbra???? [05:41] anyone here??? [05:42] Give me a sec [05:42] well i followed this forum here http://wiki.zimbra.com/index.php?title=Building_the_software_yourself#CVS_Update [05:43] and It installed okay except for a local host but it installed [05:43] but I can't even log infinity [05:43] Oh, I thought you meant an Ubuntu package [05:43] dreyes: This doesn't belong in #ubuntu-devel. [05:44] got ya see ya === dreyes [n=dreyes@c-68-52-35-43.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [05:46] hey infinity [05:46] quick question for ya ... [05:47] chances of you visiting ootb LDAP goodness during edgy? [05:47] whiprush: Decent, if you write me some coherent specs to look over in Paris. [05:47] whiprush: Poor otherwise, as it's not necessarily a personal goal of MINE. === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.30] has joined #ubuntu-devel === whiprush nods [05:48] whiprush: like NetworkAuthentication? [05:48] which I've put in for SoC [05:49] ajmitch: from scanning the page, yep. [05:49] ajmitch: coolness [05:49] whiprush: if it goes through, I should get client & server stuff done [05:50] you messed around with FDS at all? [05:50] will be doing so [05:50] I haven't had that joy yet [05:50] I've done so on one machine, I haven't played with it as far as the multi-master stuff goes === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:52] I haven't player with it at all yet. [05:52] ajmitch: I've just kerberized our stuff at work, it's great stuff. [05:52] Is it "yet another slapd fork" with some extra glue? [05:52] nice [05:52] Maybe my school will send our ldap guy to paris. [05:52] infinity: old netscape code [05:52] sadly I won't be in paris [05:53] ajmitch: Oh, ick. [05:53] infinity: forked off the old netscape code [05:53] then they spent a few months making the admin tools work with free java. [05:53] it's not /bad/, but it's not entirely fun to use either, imo. [05:53] so I hope people don't spec too much that runs against what I'm working on :) === ajmitch will be back in ~15 min [05:54] ajmitch: Well, I don't intend to spec anything LDAP-related for edgy, I have other fish to fry. Since I'm likely the only core-dev who gives a crap about LDAP, that probably means you're safe. [05:57] infinity: I gotta hand it to you man, I don't know how you deal with any/all these X bugs?? [05:57] infinity: they invented ldap like 45 minutes from me, and for the life of me I can't find anyone in their LUG or faculty willing to work on the stuff. :-/ [05:59] bddebian: I ignore them until the nagging becomes overwhelming? === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.4.123.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:02] infinity: Heh. I wish I could help you more man :-( === seth [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === trs80 [n=trs80@relay1.uwa.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Xoff [n=mas01cr@158.223.59.22] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@125.212.127.151] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel === felix_ [n=felix@c-67-162-185-86.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman is now known as GmanAFK === dsas [n=dean@host86-128-54-253.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:46] yay [06:46] the school acm group finally passed on the ubuntu SoC email [06:46] to their student members on their jobs list [06:46] I'm unsure whether to love or hate the SVN testsuite... [06:47] dieman: the one where applications are due in < 24 hours? [06:47] It's saved my ass a few times.. But it also takes like 12 freakin' days to run on my 2GHz Pentium-M. [06:47] yeah [06:47] sadly [06:47] i sent them days ago [06:47] and someone decided to leave them in the queue, obviously [06:47] infinity: wow. seriously? [06:47] lifeless: No, not quite 12 days. That might be hyperbole. [06:47] infinity: is it all blackbox tests ? [06:47] lifeless: It's rather comprehensive, however. [06:48] lifeless: EPARSE. blackbox tests, meaning? (I'm not a testing engineer) === jdub wonders if god entertains test driven design... and are we the product, or the test suite? [06:48] jdub: haha [06:48] heh [06:48] lol [06:50] Some of the magic (and pain) of the suite comes from the fact that many tests generate random repository scenarios on the fly to catch "bugs no one's though of yet". [06:50] Which has actually caught a few, which is neat, but is also hell on entropy. === human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel === human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:03] Gnight peopleses [07:12] fabbione: Your last GDB upload seems to have hosed the testsuite on other arches... [07:12] fabbione: More failures than before, and ia64 and powerpc even decided to hang. [07:20] BenC: about? === human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:27] wow [07:27] Good morning [07:27] misfire, wrong chan === trs80 [n=trs80@relay1.uwa.edu.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel === human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j^ [n=j@e178025077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vurdak [n=vurdak@151.56.123.89] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vurdak [n=vurdak@151.56.123.89] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yvonne [n=01101110@pdpc/supporter/active/Yvonne] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@94.Red-83-49-50.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vuntz [n=vuntz@pd9568b7c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:39] jdub: my evo greeted me with an 'invalid file format' for the fridge web cal this morning; any idea? === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B163C.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:50] good morning [08:50] hiya daniel === dholbach hugs Mithrandir === marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:59] dholbach: have you seen anyone complaining about dapper video playback in multihead setups? a malone search reveals nothing useful. [09:00] neuralis: I think there was one bug about multihead and totem, but that can have been upstream too. === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:01] dholbach: it's a very serious regression from breezy that i only now noticed, and appears non-trivial to debug :/ === chmj [n=chmj@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos [n=carlos@175.Red-88-9-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === herzi [n=herzi@c182064.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kagou [n=kagou@84.4.154.175] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:25] hi === mvo [n=egon@p54A65C46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ToadZzZztool is now known as Toadstool [09:43] morning all [09:46] pitti: hi, I didn't get translation status mails for Saturday and Sunday, is there any problem with your scripts? [09:47] carlos: yes, I fixed it this morning, sorry [09:47] pitti: ok, no problem at all. Thanks [09:47] carlos: will work again today [09:47] carlos: btw, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MissingPotFiles looks pretty well now; can you confirm this list? [09:49] pitti: I think so, most of the .pot files were approved on Friday [09:50] yay === pitti looks forward to today's report [09:52] pitti: I still need to do the manual imports for some packages, will try to do it today so tomorrow we would get near 100% exports from Rosetta === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:56] jdub: when you come online, could you please add me to planel? please add http://sivan.linuxguru.net/ as a feed. === sivang hugs slomo [09:56] hi sivang :) === j_ack [n=nico@p508DBBA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pvanhoof [n=pvanhoof@mailhost.newtec.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-080-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nikusan [n=dan@d58-108-71-11.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:20] Kinnison: is it you or ogra I should talk to about gss locking my screen (sometimes) when unplugging power? === Xoff is now known as Xof [10:30] Yahoo, resume works for me again with the new kernel. [10:30] Unfortunately the box shuts down right after it resumed. [10:30] mvo: 30171 should be confirmed at least, shouldn't it? [10:31] hunger: Hey, it's a start :) === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:32] Treenaks: Yeap. And getting it to resume again should have been the hard part, too:-) [10:32] Mithrandir: yes. I currently sync by hand when I have time. I still need to figure how to merge unreleated trees in bzr then I can use the cvs import we have [10:33] mvo: I'm going through unconfirmed bugs so if we could at least just confirm it, it'd drop off my radar for now. [10:33] Mithrandir: done [10:34] Mithrandir: sorry for not doing it earlier [10:34] np === olemke [n=olemke@iup.physik.uni-bremen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:37] moin moin [10:38] anybody else see kernel 2.6.15-22 not properly install? [10:38] it does not show up in my boot menu === ompaul_ [n=ompaul@213-202-147-212.bas502.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:38] hi sabdfl === danimo [n=danimo@kde/danimo] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:39] moinw [10:39] where has the the fs_dav plugin for subversion gone? [10:40] in current dapper, it's not possible to access http urls anymore [10:40] webdav-based repos, that is [10:40] sabdfl: I just dist-upgraded, it worked fine for me [10:41] sabdfl: are the /vmlinux{,.old} symlinks correct? [10:41] pitti: yes [10:41] danimo: it's a known bug and has been fixed this night, the packages will be quickly available on your mirror [10:42] hi here by the way [10:42] sabdfl: and /boot/grub/menu.list still shows -21 for the default kernel /vmlinuz? [10:42] yes [10:42] hmm [10:42] that indeed seems to be a bug in the kernel postinst then [10:42] BenC: ping ^^^ [10:43] sabdfl: sometimes I ended up with grub using the 'wrong' boot partition (after test installs, etc.), but that doesn't seem to be the case here [10:43] sabdfl: a full /boot partition maybe? does sudo update-grub say anything? [10:44] Toadstool: ok, tnx [10:44] reinstalling gives: [10:44] Not touching initrd symlinks since we are being reinstalled (2.6.15-22.34) [10:44] Not updating image symbolic links since we are being updated (2.6.15-22.34) === danimo [n=danimo@kde/danimo] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation] [10:44] well, the symlinks were okay anyway [10:44] update-grub should rewrite menu.list [10:45] interesting, grub is not installed [10:45] there is no chain of dependencies [10:45] oh, that explains the issue then :) [10:45] there's something wrong with that new subversion package [10:45] why is grub not a dependency of -minimal? [10:45] it can't handle https URL's [10:46] sabdfl: some people might want lilo [10:46] sabdfl: (I want lilo on my server, e.g.) [10:46] pitti surely we should depend on (lilo | grub) [10:46] sabdfl: indeed, the kernel should do (grub | lilo, even) [10:46] getting grub installed is handled by the installer [10:46] (some people might /have/ to have lilo, even if they don't want it) [10:46] there's no infrastructure in -minimal for alternative dependencies at the moment [10:47] -minimal doesn't depend on the kernel either, somewhat deliberately :) [10:47] Kamion: i think -desktop at least should have the (lilo | grub) dependency [10:47] sabdfl: no infrastructure for it there either; germinate can't express that [10:47] i also noticed that ubuntu-artwork wanted to be removed over the w/e [10:47] thom: I never managed to get the grub equivalent of lilo's -R option working, so I just sticked to lilo on my server [10:47] Kamion: ok, i'm just suggesting its a bug that the user can end up with no boot loader updates [10:48] sabdfl: well, only if they choose to remove packages :) [10:48] pitti: i can't remember what -R is; I have seen machines that grub physically doesn't work on [10:48] thom: lilo -R linux.new boots the image linux.new once and then falls back to 'default=' [10:48] Kamion: we have smart packaging systems to keep machines lean and mean, and if there is no dependency then the packages could well end up being removed [10:48] thom: a vital life saver if you have to adminstrate a remote server with only ssh (like I do) [10:48] pitti: oh, cute === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [10:49] Kamion: are there a a few zope & python2.3-* packages in NEW at the moment? [10:49] yes [10:49] ok [10:49] thom: so, with panic= and an init.d script which autoreboots after 5 minutes (at job), I'm fairly safe against screwing up in a kernel update, etc. [10:50] Kamion: i noticed one bug in ubiquity (choosing croatian layout doesn't change a thing), so I'm wondering is this ubiquity bug or it has something to do with localisation packages? === j_ack [n=nico@p508DBBA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:50] pitti: yeah. LOM for the win, really :-) [10:50] thom: LOM? [10:51] lights out management [10:51] mjg59: ping [10:51] ivoks: ubiquity bug I imagine [10:51] Kamion: ok [10:52] there are some related ones filed, but none for Croatian [10:53] ok, i'll take a look [10:53] thank you === ealden [n=ealden@203.177.233.238] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:53] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/43526 [10:53] Malone bug 43526 in Baltix "Since May 8 subversion cannot do https anymore" [Normal,Unconfirmed] [10:53] Can somebody move that to Ubuntu? [10:53] pvanhoof: it's already fixed [10:53] are you uploading a new package? [10:53] and no, somebody can't move it to Ubuntu, look at the bug on the web [10:53] it's already filed on Ubuntu [10:53] pvanhoof: not me [10:54] okay, thanks .. whoever fixed it [10:54] *rolled libsvn and subversion back* I'll upgrade in a few hours and try again [10:55] funny monday mornings when running dapper :) === Huahua [n=hua_@222.50.182.205] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ploum [n=ploum@ubuntu/member/ploum] has joined #ubuntu-devel === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Toadstool [n=jcorbier@ubuntu/member/toadstool] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:11] Riddell: ping [11:11] will xen be integrated in any form for dapper? [11:11] no [11:11] lack of time or some other reason? [11:11] czr: i suppose feature freeze === janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:12] k. thanks for that info [11:12] it's way, way, way too late now and nobody has spent the effort earlier. [11:12] was long time ago [11:12] It'd have been sweet if it had been pushed for five months ago, but it wasn't. [11:13] what about the next version (what was it anyway?) [11:13] edgy eft. [11:13] yeah, that one :-) [11:13] always have problems remembering the new names :-) [11:13] somebody needs to expend the effort. If a volunteer does it, I can't see it not being accepted. [11:14] no one is working on it yet? [11:14] I don't know if it'll be a high-priority goal. Maybe, maybe not. [11:14] czr: we're all focussing on getting the release ready. [11:14] we're busy getting dapper out. Nobody's supposed to focus on eft yet. [11:14] dholbach, I understand [11:15] czr: cool [11:16] going to play with xen this week and since ubuntu is my fav distro just wanted to know if there are any plans. that's all :-) === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:17] czr: you sound like a member of the XenTeam for next release, it seems ;) [11:17] depends on how busy I'll be with other stuff :-) [11:18] and depends on how well my playing with xen will go over, but from what I've understood, getting it to work isn't that hard. getting it integrated properly might be more pita. [11:18] czr: there's already some efforts to make it work out of the box, wait a sec I'll find you the link [11:19] sivang, thanks [11:19] czr: there's some very unofficial stuff, I think it was announced on ubuntu-devel some time ago. [11:19] well there is a project for debian at least [11:22] Mithrandir: talking about what jmg's working on? [11:23] czr: It seems that link has been removed, and I'm reluctant to give you repository location without the howto.. try to contact jmg on IRC when he's online [11:23] sivang: maybe that's what it is, I can't remember exactly. [11:24] sivang, that's ok. I'm going to play with xen with my own system first (not ubuntu), just asked about plans (if any) about xen-'support' in the future [11:24] czr: jmg already has packages that install a patched dapper kernel and seems to go past installation, but I personally couldn't make the subdomains work, or connect to them.. === Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:26] czr: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenVirtualMachine/XenOnUbuntuDapper has something [11:26] I'm going to play with xen patched 2.6.16 running my own initramfs this week. so mainly the question was whether ubuntu will behave nicely running in a domU [11:26] thanks Mithrandir [11:26] Kamion: I am planning an upload which renames one of the xfce library binary packages. Can I ping you when it's built to let it out of NEW? [11:28] anyhow, thanks for all the links & info, I'm going to stop the xen-questions now, you have better things to do :--) === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:32] hi [11:33] Kamion: 34465 should be fixed now, or haven't you had the time to check? === Daweos [n=sdf@139.92.110.80] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [11:39] hi all [11:39] janimo: if it's urgent, yes [11:39] Mithrandir: theoretically me === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.30] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:40] Mithrandir: oh, yeah, that's a dup, I'll mark it as such [11:40] Kinnison: I don't know the exact steps needed to reproduce it yet, but it happened to me this morning. [11:40] Kamion: thanks. [11:40] Mithrandir: check your system logs from around that time [11:41] Mithrandir: g-p-m is supposed to log when/why it does things [11:43] Kinnison: what does it use as its tag? === bpuccio [n=brian@ool-457a9c38.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:46] Anybody know what's the difference from embedded-ubuntu to 'miu'ubuntu? [11:47] Mithrandir: not a clue, grep -i for gnome ought to do it === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:48] Kinnison: well, doesn't seem like it has logged anything here [11:48] sabdfl: the problem with adding grub|lilo to metapackages is that it makes it difficult to set up a chroot and be confident that stuff inside the chroot isn't going to render your machine unbootable [11:49] sabdfl: I think I'd rather make our smart packaging tools a little bit smarter, and tell them to try hard not to remove bootloaders [11:49] Kamion: ? [11:49] ok [11:49] what about depending on "boot-loader" and have three things that provide that: grub, lilo, and a dummy [11:50] then you can put the dummy in the chroot [11:50] dunno, sounds fiddly to get the chroot created properly then, but I suppose it's possible [11:51] I'd probably better not dive into that morass today though :) === ubijtsa2 [n=ubijtsa@213.208.70.150] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:53] np [11:53] Mithrandir: Hmm, then it's possible it wasn't g-p-m === Kinnison ponders [11:56] !seen alizardo === ealden [n=ealden@203.177.233.238] has joined #ubuntu-devel === erez [n=erez@89-138-110-12.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel === erez [n=erez@89-138-110-12.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:10] infinity: was it you who was apparently halfway through doing a retchmail sync? === ctd_ [i=ctd@incubus.progsoc.uts.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:14] Kamion: Nope. Blame Keybuk. === erez [n=erez@89-138-110-12.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ctd [i=ctd@incubus.progsoc.uts.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:24] sivang: pong [12:25] Riddell: let me know if this is legite, or helps in any way https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/43459 [12:25] Malone bug 43459 in amarok "dh_iconcache added." [Normal,Unconfirmed] [12:26] sivang: I've no idea, I've not looked at dh_iconcache at all, you'd need to ask a gnome packager [12:26] Riddell: k, thanks alot. [12:27] doko: could you please take a look at merging/syncinc libstruts1.2-java from sid? (new upstream microversion fixes three security bugs, but we have ubuntu specific java changes) [12:27] pitti: ok [12:27] doko: thanks === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra_ibook [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:34] slomo: do you feel like merging ethereal with Sid, to fix a plethora of vulns? [12:34] Mithrandir: There's no mention of g-p-m there at all? === Kinnison looks confused [12:36] pitti: hm, write me a mail with all packages and i'll get this done over the week whenever i have some free minutes :) [12:36] slomo: just ethereal [12:36] Mithrandir: grep for " because " [12:36] Mithrandir: if that produces nothing then I'm not sure what happened. [12:36] pitti: oh how boring :) it's on my todo list now... is there a bug about this? [12:36] Kinnison: nothing since May 5th. [12:37] Mithrandir: do you have any of your actions set to "blank screen" ? [12:37] slomo: I don't know, I just spotted it in ubuntu-cve (I repaired debian changelog parsing) [12:38] Kinnison: when laptop lid is closed, yes. [12:38] Mithrandir: so you unplugged ac and that caused it to do laptop-lid-close action? [12:38] yargh [12:38] quality [12:38] Kinnison: apparently, yes. [12:38] pitti: hm this would get us a new upstream version... maybe i'll just backport the fixes... i'll take a closer look later [12:38] Mithrandir: can you run g-p-m in --no-daemon --verbose mode and log it all to a file, and then prod around and try and reproduce it? [12:39] slomo: as you wish, but I think you don't really want to backport ~10 security fixes for ethereal (the new upstream release does not much (nothing?) else anyway) === chris_^ [n=chris@ACB338E2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:39] Kinnison: I can see if I can reproduce it first, though I don't really know where to start, given that it doesn't reproduce magically [12:39] pitti: well... it's 0.10.something -> 0.99... sounds scary :) but i didn't take a look at the changes yet [12:39] slomo: oh, I see, our version is even older; hmm [12:39] slomo: thanks [12:40] ... just a little question - you know that nvidia modules don't work in dapper with 2.6.15-22? [12:40] Mithrandir: it sounds like g-p-m's internal notion of where the lid was is confused [12:40] pitti: np :) [12:40] chris_^: did you update linux-restricted-modules as well? [12:40] pitti: yes [12:40] hm [12:40] on my gaming machiene (even my dapper test machine), there is with 2.6.15-21 the error message "can't load module nvidia"... [12:40] chris_^: incidentially I have to reboot for the new kernel (and nvidia) as well, let's see [12:41] no, with 15-22 [12:41] Mithrandir: because it does the lid-close-on-battery action when ac is removed andit thinks the lid is closed [12:41] with 15-21 working well === erez [n=erez@89-138-110-12.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:41] Kinnison: yeah, something like that [12:42] Irritatingly it seems to lose events sometimes [12:42] esp if lid changes occur during syspend/resume cycles [12:42] that might very well have happened. [12:43] It's really hard to debug these kinds of breakages, and even harder to fix [12:43] it'd be easier if we had a reliable way to query if the lid was open or closed === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:44] : tfheen@thosu ~ > cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state [12:44] state: open [12:44] ? [12:44] it's not always reliable [12:44] stupor% cat button/lid/LID/state [12:44] pitti: working all well? [12:44] state: closed [12:44] chris_^: works fine here [12:44] heh, ok === ctd [i=ctd@incubus.progsoc.uts.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:47] pitti: ohh, i think restricted modules are missing [12:47] just thought apt has installed new version.. grml [12:48] chris_^: yes, I dist-upgraded, rebooted, no problem [12:48] pitti: i dist-upgraded, rebootet, linux-restricted-modules-2.6-15-22-686 or so is missing.. [12:48] but installed it, worked.. [12:49] This brings up a point, actually. === erez [n=erez@89-138-110-12.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:49] Does anyone think it would be horribly heavy-handed for me to make linux-restricted-modules-$(KVER)-$(FLAVOUR) depend on linux-$(FLAVOUR)? [12:50] It's obviously incorrect, but it would mean that people who install LRM manually will be pretty much forced from there on it to have kernels and LRM in sync on upgrades. [12:50] chris_^: you need to have the metapackages [12:50]