[03:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> can a tgroup have more then one tbody in it?
[03:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> it looks like yes, but the code block is failing to validate :/ oh well. 
[07:37] <dsas> trappist: ping
[07:47] <motin> I can directly spot 3 spelling errors in the swedish translation for Dapper. Who should I contact?
[07:49] <robotgeek> motin: i think there is a translators mailing list, and maybe you can translate/leave comments on the rosetta translation page?
[07:56] <motin> aight
[07:56] <motin> i am in rosetta now
[07:56] <motin> whats the name for the shutdown/logout dialogue?
[08:06] <motin> why isnt rosetta searchable?
[08:07] <motin> i would like to search for the word that I know is wrong, and correct it..
[08:10] <Burgundavia> motin: because that part of LP has not been written yet
[08:11] <motin> Burgundavia: aight. I'll download a copy of each likely list and search myself then
[08:12] <motin> naaah
[08:12] <motin> takes too long time
[08:12] <motin> when will that be written?
[08:12] <motin> can I help?
[08:12] <motin> who's writing it
[08:18] <Burgundavia> motin: sadly, LP is closed source and thus only the canonical guys can work on it
[08:42] <motin> Burgundavia: hmm too bad
[08:42] <motin> then canonical will have less help then
[08:44] <Burgundavia> motin: the person you need to convince is mark
[08:45] <motin> only mark, that should be easy
[08:45] <motin> wonder if he answers all email
[08:46] <mdke> it's not easy, there are some quite good reasons for it being open source
[08:46] <mdke> not being*
[08:46] <mdke> in the long term, they want it open source, of course
[08:46] <Burgundavia> motin: you would not be the only person who wants it to be open source
[08:46] <mdke> and they are releasing as much of launchpad as possible
[08:47] <Burgundavia> part of the issue right now is that it is one giant app
[08:47] <Burgundavia> rosetta and malone, which are going to be opensourced, cannot easily be seperated from the rest
[08:47] <motin> mdke: are they making any money on lp?
[08:47] <mdke> motin: no
[08:47] <motin> too bad
[08:48] <motin> why have it closed then?
[08:48] <mdke> think of it like this.
[08:49] <mdke> the whole point of launchpad is to provide a way to manage all upstream projects and all distros in one interface, all of them sharing information
[08:49] <mdke> if it was open source, before being mature enough that this function is really obvious, everyone would run their own copy, and the whole point of it would be lost
[08:49] <mdke> well, not everyone
[08:49] <motin> mdke: thats a great point
[08:49] <mdke> but enough people to defeat the purpose
[08:50] <motin> i love the way it is targeting _all_ projects
[08:50] <mdke> yeah, it's a good point. the launchpad developers (and backers) care a lot about open source, they wouldn't work on a closed source project without good reasons.
[08:53] <motin> now i understand
[08:53] <motin> but then too bad i cant help them fix the searching
[08:54] <mdke> motin: yeah, it's a really common feature request.
[08:54] <mdke> btw, https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-sv is who you need to contact about translations
[08:55] <motin> yeah I know, but it seemed easier to go to rosetta directly, for both of us. but then this came along. couldnt find the right label
[08:55] <mdke> you can download the po and search it
[02:53] <jjesse> i was disappointed when i found out about this
[02:56] <mdke> me too, as you can see
[02:56] <mdke> I've put a lot of work into getting translation set up for our docs
[02:56] <jjesse> i've noticed the kubuntu docs are well on their for translation
[02:57] <jjesse> i guess it seems like a slap in the face of those that did the desktop guide
[02:59] <mdke> well, it diminishes the desktop guides a bit, but more importantly will cause confusion for the user about which they should pick. Id much rather makos chapters had been put forward, because those arent really duplicated.
[03:01] <jjesse> plus it makes those that worked so hard on the guides feel like their work wasn't needed
[03:01] <jjesse> i just wish this was talked about back when we were planing the docs that were going to be shipped
[03:08] <theCore> I feel a bit evil ... 
[03:12] <theCore> I gained root access to my dad box by guessing his pass. I don't like doing that, but I guess that what happen when you control things too much.
[03:12] <theCore> crap, I not in -offtopic?
[03:13] <theCore> sorry guys, wrong channel 
[03:13] <jjesse> mdke: does jane read the mailing list?
[03:14] <mdke> jjesse: sometimes
[03:15] <jjesse> mdke: i don't think my replies included her, should i forward them to her?
[03:16] <theCore> does the repository has been branched for Edgy?
[03:17] <jjesse> all of the docs that are shipping in dapper are in trunk if i recall correctly
[03:18] <mdke> jjesse: mine werent either, I think she will read them sooner or later
[03:18] <jjesse> mdke: ok, btw i'm getting wierd characters for contractions from you
[03:18] <jjesse>  werent
[03:19] <theCore> jjesse: the docs are frozen, so do I have to wait for sending patches?
[03:21] <mdke> contractions?
[03:22] <jjesse> didn't
[03:22] <jjesse> wouldn't etc from you show up with wierd characters
[03:24] <jsgotangco> hi
[03:24] <jjesse> morning jsgotangco
[03:26] <jsgotangco> hi jjesse how are you?
[03:26] <jjesse> doing good, busy but good
[03:28] <jsgotangco> great to hear
[03:28] <jjesse> how are things going for u?
[03:28] <jsgotangco> pretty hectic at work, catching up though
[03:45] <jsgotangco> jjesse: sure thats why i said make it part of the CD but don't install it by default ;)
[04:42] <mpt> Books and help are very different things ...
[04:43] <mpt> ... maybe this will help clarify the distinction between them
[06:20] <Burgwork> mpt, yes, but when you ship it as part of help, it becomes part of help
[06:46] <mpt> Burgwork, so, Dapper+1 should perhaps split it into help-sized pieces and put them in the appropriate places
[06:48] <Burgwork> mpt, it will
[06:48] <Burgwork> mpt, the other issue is that the book also needs to stay in a book-like form so it can be published again, if needed
[06:48] <jjesse> but the issue that mdke and i have is that by providing the book on cd you are duplicating the dekstopguides
[06:49] <Burgwork> jjesse, I totally agree
[06:49] <jjesse> especially if we want to include screenshots in edgy
[06:49] <jjesse> which i think we should
[06:49] <Burgwork> my idea was to merge the book and the various guides, and have some great content for printing for edgy
[06:49] <mpt> Burgwork, (1) have a coherent help system in Ubuntu, (2) use the book's contents in Ubuntu help, (3) keep the book a self-contained entity. Pick two.
[06:50] <jjesse> i choose 1 and 3
[06:50] <jjesse> there is a different audience aimed for in the book then in the help provided by the distro
[06:51] <mpt> Or pick all three, but only by diffing successive editions of the book and applying equivalent changes (if applicable) to the help (lots of work)
[06:52] <jjesse> the people that will read the book will probablly not read the help text provided and vice versa in my opnion
[06:54] <mpt> Not in the same hour, at least
[06:56] <mpt> Burgwork, how much technical review, copyediting etc has there been of the book?
[06:56] <Burgwork> mpt, a fair amount, by a fairly large number of community members (seveas, whiprush, etc.)
[06:56] <mpt> cool
[06:57] <jjesse> matthew east read them all as well
[06:57] <jjesse> jonathan riddell read my section on kubuntu
[06:57] <mpt> Is it available anywhere right now?
[06:57] <jjesse> mpt: besides from the publisher or jono not that i'm aware of
[06:58] <Burgwork> mpt, not currently
[06:58] <mpt> ok
[06:58] <Burgwork> mpt, it is about to press
[06:58] <Burgwork> to go to press, even
[07:04] <LaserJock> mpt: I wouldn't hold your breath, svn is pretty good for what we do
[07:04] <Burgwork> mpt, s/cvs/svn/
[07:05] <mpt> I'm not learning CVS for Ubuntu, but for Gnome :-)
[07:05] <mpt> (though they're switching to SVN sometime in the next decade, too)
[07:06] <LaserJock> I didn't even bother with CVS, everything I do is atleast svn if not bzr
[07:23] <mdke> 17:49:39 < Burgwork> my idea was to merge the book and the various guides, and have some great content for printing for edgy
[07:23] <mdke> ^^ ideal
[07:26] <LaserJock> are more editions of the book planed, like for each release?
[07:27] <Burgwork> LaserJock, yes
[07:28] <Burgwork> LaserJock, depending on sales, etc.
[07:28] <poningru> also who owns the book?
[07:29] <LaserJock> I'm having a bit of a problem understanding how the relationship between the book and the doc would work
[07:29] <LaserJock> how do we avoid the duplication of work and possible inconsistencies
[07:29] <jjesse> wiki?
[07:30] <jjesse> svn?
[07:30] <theCore> LaserJock: I been working on a Cover for the PG
[07:30] <LaserJock> jjesse: but so far the doc team as a whole hasn't seen the book
[07:30] <jjesse> LaserJock: understand, but i think the book and the docs have a different target
[07:30] <jjesse> i think the book will be great for more corporate like users
[07:30] <LaserJock> jjesse: of course, the doc team wouldn't know ...
[07:31] <jjesse> give them a warm fuzzy that they can go pick up a book at Barnes and Noble and read about this operating system
[07:32] <LaserJock> my issue, I think, is mostly that the doc team doesn't really know (and perhaps can't know) what is going on with the book
[07:33] <LaserJock> so we can only merge or avoid inconsistencies after the fact
[07:33] <jjesse> LaserJock: to be honest it seems half the time i don't know what is oging on in the book
[07:33] <jjesse> i just know what i ahve to do for my chapter, and i don't have a large overview of the goals that canonical has for the book
[07:33] <LaserJock> exactly
[07:34] <Burgwork> jjesse, you are not alone in the lost category
[07:34] <jjesse> be back in 15 minutes, work calls
[07:34] <jjesse> Burgwork: how does that get improved?
[07:34] <Burgwork> jjesse, call debra?
[07:35] <LaserJock> but that's my point, the doc team will have no chance to react to the book because we can't see it and even the individual authors are having problems seeing what's going on
[07:35] <poningru> can I remove the work in progress from flight 7 announce page?
[07:35] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight7
[07:42] <jjesse> poningru: i would ask mgalvin
[07:46] <jjesse> LaserJock and Burgwork sent an email to deb to see what is going on, will forward resposne to the mailing list
[07:48] <LaserJock> cool
[07:49] <LaserJock> I mean, I'm all for the book. I just feel like the doc team (and perhaps the authors as well) aren't being kept in the loop.
[07:50] <Burgwork> jjesse, cheers, thanks
[07:50] <Burgwork> jjesse, I will probably call her before lunch as well
[07:52] <jjesse> LaserJock: i totally agree, hopefully it shows through the emails to the list about inclusion of the book in the distro
[07:52] <jjesse> Burgwork: would be interested to here what they say, at work right now and cannot call :(
[08:07] <mdke> jjesse: I exchanged a few emails back and forward with Jane
[08:07] <jjesse> mdke: get anything worked out?
[08:07] <mdke> she gets the point I think, but seems really keen on including the book because, as she rightly says, it's quite exciting that the book is under a free licence and she thinks it is an important part of the ubuntu ecosystem (her word).
[08:08] <mdke> I'm really hoping it doesn't go into the help menu, I think that would be pretty terrible
[08:08] <mdke> if it has to go in, I can see a case for putting into example-content, maybe as the odt example piece
[08:08] <jjesse> mdke: i think the bigger problem is what LaserJock and i were talking about, howw to manage the book going forward, will the authors or the doc team be responsbile for keeping it current?
[08:09] <mdke> Ah, that's a separate problem.
[08:09] <jjesse> mdke: the example idea would be great as well
[08:09] <mdke> I'm sure we'll work out how to manage the book going forward, I don't see that as an issue
[08:09] <Burgwork> jjesse, afaik, there will be money for updating the book, if needed
[08:09] <jjesse> Burgwork: i think the problem is that there is a lot of AFIK going around
[08:09] <mdke> what I'm worried about now is that the concern for marketing this book is going to impact on the help system in a negative way
[08:10] <Burgwork> first refusal for that work goes to the original authors
[08:10] <jjesse> Burgwork: but that would be silly if the content is under an open liense
[08:11] <Burgwork> jjesse, not necessarily. If the content get abandoned, or needs work to make it book form
[08:13] <jjesse> Burgwork: understand now
[08:47] <LaserJock> mdke: ping?
[09:04] <mdke> LaserJock: hi
[09:04] <LaserJock> mdke: I'm going over the book and I noticed that <application> is not treate specially
[09:04] <LaserJock> whereas in yelp and HTML it is
[09:05] <mdke> LaserJock: nice one, thanks
[09:06] <mdke> we'll make it italics, shall we?
[09:06] <LaserJock> I think that is what the HTML does
[09:06] <LaserJock> actually it is bold in HTML
[09:06] <LaserJock> but I think italics in yelp
[09:07] <mdke> oh dear. we should probably change the HTML too, for consistency
[09:12] <LaserJock> mdke: hmm, should I point out things like that for yelp and HTML? I've noticed a few but thought they were intentional or something
[09:12] <LaserJock> mostly <application> though
[09:14] <mdke> yeah, if they are significant, I guess we can change the HTML
[09:49] <LaserJock> mdke: do you happen to know of an easy way to convert a wiki page to docbook?
[09:52] <mdke> LaserJock: not really, moin has an xml output thing in 1.5 but it isn't really good enough for our purposes
[09:53] <LaserJock> mdke: well, I just need to get a rough start for someone to clean up, the page isn't terribly long though so maybe I'll just get them started with XML
[09:54] <mdke> yeah, try moin 1.5 then
[09:55] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't know of any moin 1.5 that I would have access to
[09:57] <mdke> desktop moin :)
[10:03] <LaserJock> yeah, unfortunately OSX doesn't have a 1.5 desktop moin, only 1.3
[10:04] <mdke> you need to scrap OSX dude
[10:05] <LaserJock> no kidding
[10:05] <LaserJock> although I really like it
[11:01] <LaserJock> mdke: still here?
[11:06] <mdke> LaserJock: yes
[11:06] <mdke> on and off
[11:06] <LaserJock> mdke: if I were to add a new doc in trunk/edubuntu/ would that be ok?
[11:07] <LaserJock> it's a little pamphlet that some edubuntu guys have been working on
[11:10] <mdke> don't see why not.
[11:10] <mdke> LaserJock: ^
[11:11] <LaserJock> ok, just wanted to check first :-)
[11:40] <jeffsch> LaserJock: in the repos, see /teamstuff/moin2db/xml_docbook.py
[11:41] <jeffsch> LaserJock: i don't know how well it works though
[11:44] <LaserJock> jeffsch: good to know, thanks