[12:10] <sivang> lifeless: could you tell me why I am getting bzr: ERROR: Revision {pqm@pqm.ubuntu.com-20060507115829-e0e65b77a04377e6} not present in inventory.
[12:10] <sivang> lifeless: when I do bzr st ?
[12:10] <sivang> lifeless: (acutally that also happend with rocketfuel-refresh)
[12:10] <sivang> lifeless: still due to the broken slinks in lib/zope ?
[12:12] <lifeless> you took your rsync late last week
[12:12] <lifeless> at just the wrong time. Like elmo says, update your rsynced copy.
[12:14] <sivang> lifeless: okay, I just thought to try and use bzr to recreate the symlinks :)
[12:35] <sivang> lifeless: if the importd key is no longer neccessary (there is not explenation why it was mentioned in the RFS doc) can we rmeove it from the document instructions and leave the pqm bit only?
[12:37] <lifeless> I'll have a look at the page later
[12:39] <sivang> lifeless: okay, thanks.
[12:59] <ploum> well, I found on the Ubuntu wiki the idea of a gnome launchpad front-end as a google SoC
[12:59] <ploum> great idea
[12:59] <ploum> I really like it
[01:00] <ploum> I submitted a SoC proposition about it
[01:00] <ploum> if anyone want to mentor it
[01:01] <kiko> hey 
[01:01] <kiko> that is very cool ploum 
[01:01] <kiko> I'd be happy to mentor it
[01:01] <ploum> cool :-)
[01:02] <ploum> I you are already a registered mentor, you can read it
[01:02] <kiko> pygtk?
[01:02] <ploum> indeed
[01:02] <kiko> I am no such thing
[01:02] <kiko> but I can become one
[01:02] <ploum> I was thinking about it p
[01:02] <mdke> will the licensing work?
[01:02] <kiko> it's just a front-end, right?
[01:03] <ploum> kiko: here's the submission (sorry for the formating) : http://ploum.fritalk.com/soc4.txt
[01:03] <sivang> ploum: I am also willing to help, I worked on LaunchpadIntegration previously, and they seem to have some in common :)
[01:03] <ploum> great :-)
[01:03] <mdke> ploum: what a great idea
[01:04] <ploum> mdke: I stole it on the wiki ;-)
[01:04] <ploum> but I found it so great, I couldn't resist to propose myself ;-)
[01:04] <mdke> I'm sure you can do it proud
[01:05] <kiko> ploum, okay, so it's a front-end only to the bug part of launchpad
[01:05] <kiko> so gmalone?
[01:05] <ploum> kiko: I was thinking to extend it also for specifications, support and translations 
[01:05] <kiko> ah
[01:05] <kiko> I see
[01:05] <kiko> that I'm not so sure about
[01:05] <ploum> but the bug part is the most important IMHO
[01:05] <kiko> becomes fuzzier in intent
[01:05] <ploum> indeed
[01:06] <kiko> in particular because a single UI that covers translations and specs, well... it's like emacs :)
[01:06] <sivang> heh
[01:06] <ploum> kiko: that's why I wrote that it will not be a monolithic application
[01:06] <ploum> but you are right
[01:06] <ploum> the first and important part is malone
[01:07] <ploum> others are bonus
[01:07] <sivang> kiko: emacs is not _that_ bad :)
[01:07] <kiko> emacs is a disaster
[01:08] <ploum> emacs is the "thing"
[01:08] <ploum> there's no other word
[01:09] <kiko> like john carpenter's thing?
[01:09] <ploum> like it
[01:09] <ploum> :-)
[01:09] <kiko> I control-X control C you!
[01:09] <ploum> argh !
[01:10] <ploum> :wq!
[01:10] <ploum> (that my shield)
[01:10] <kiko> :x! is for the eleet
[01:10] <kiko> :wq is so old-skool
[01:11] <ploum> I always say : emacs is really faster than vim.... if you have more than 17 fingers per hand
[01:11] <ajmitch> kiko: what are you saying? emacs is the one true OS
[01:11] <ploum> :-D
[01:11] <kiko> ajmitch, obviously!
[01:11] <ploum> ajmitch: I don't agree. It lacks of a text editor
[01:12] <ajmitch> hah
[01:12] <kiko> doesn't it have something called viper?
[01:12] <kiko> I thought it did
[01:12] <sivang> ajmitch++
[01:13] <ploum> ajmitch: is there any documentation about this interface ?
[01:13] <ajmitch> I don't think the interface is really done yet :)
[01:14] <mdke> ploum: dig around on the LP wiki
[01:14] <sivang> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneXmlRpcInterface
[01:14] <mdke> there is something about it, even if just a spec
[01:16] <ploum> well, now I hope that the project will be selected..
[01:16] <ajmitch> ploum: why is that?
[01:16] <ajmitch> all the SoC code has to be for free software, too
[01:16] <ploum> indeed..
[01:17] <kiko> ajmitch, really?
[01:17] <ajmitch> kiko: yep
[01:17] <kiko> -- /for/ free software? 
[01:17] <mdke> the code *produced* has to be free software
[01:18] <kiko> that's what I understood too
[01:18] <ajmitch> that is what I meant
[01:18] <kiko> then I didn't understand your comment at all :)
[01:18] <ajmitch> ok :)
[01:19] <mdke> kiko: you get a t-shirt for being a mentor...
[01:19] <ajmitch> I didn't mean that they'd necessarily exclude writing an app to interface with an evil, proprietary, RMS-hating web app
[01:19] <kiko> oh good!
[01:19] <mdke> can't believe the t-shirt thing is so low down the faq
[01:20] <kiko> mdke, yeah, I mean, I /really/ need an extra t-shirt!
[01:20] <mdke> you should mentor a few projects then
[01:20] <ajmitch> mdke: I should have signed up to be a mentor then
[01:21] <kiko> ajmitch, are you in need of extra clothing
[01:21] <ajmitch> of course
[01:21] <ajmitch> I live in freezing dunedin
[01:21] <mdke> I could do with a google tie
[01:21] <kiko> there are other places that are inhabitable on the planet I believe
[01:21] <ajmitch> there are
[01:21] <ajmitch> dunedin isn't so bad
[01:21] <lifeless> dunedin rocks
[01:22] <mdke> I'm torn between my brain telling me that dunedin must be in australia, and some kind of instinct shouting "Scotland!"
[01:22] <kiko> it's in middle-earth.
[01:22] <mdke> ah, neither
[01:22] <lifeless> mdke: its a little bit of scotland in New Zealand
[01:23] <lifeless> legend has it the street map is a clone of edinborough
[01:23] <ajmitch> without regarding hills at all
[01:23] <mdke> ah, there is one in scotland too, phew
[01:23] <lifeless> complete with cul de sacs that in edinborough butted up against cliffs, but in new zealand make no sense
[01:23] <mdke> sounds cool
[01:24] <kiko> I wonder if lifeless meant edimburgh
[01:24] <kiko> err
[01:24] <kiko> edinburgh
[01:24] <kiko> or if that is the old spelling
[01:25] <lifeless> kiko: my bad
[01:25] <ajmitch> even mpt_ decided that dunedin was the place to be
[01:26] <ajmitch> lifeless: btw I'll be in sydney for a week or so in early july
[01:27] <lifeless> sweet
[01:30] <ploum> thanks mdke. kiko : in order to become a mentor, I think you just have to ask JaneW
[01:35] <ploum> (or sivang too . There must be plenty of projects ;-) )
[01:35] <ploum> (and a need for a lot of mentors)
[01:52] <ploum> good night all
[01:52] <sivang> ploum: already signed, and emailed pygi where I think I can mentor :)
[01:52] <sivang> night ploum :-)
[01:52] <ploum> :-)
[01:54] <sivang> elmo: fresh checkout, 'make schema' works beautifully.
[02:12] <sivang> night all
[02:34] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=lifeless]  Fix 'make importdcheck' by using the same path hack as test.py. Made the 'importdcheck' make rule a little more consistent with others, too. (r3542: Andrew Bennetts)
[02:35] <spiv> Good grief.  I sent that merge request almost 12 hours ago.
[02:35] <kiko> I asked lifeless about this and yet... no change 
[02:41] <lifeless> kiko:  ?
[02:41] <kiko> PQM slowness?
[02:41] <lifeless> kiko: I answered you
[02:42] <lifeless> its reweaving on every merge, there is inconsistent data in the cloud of branches
[02:42] <kiko> you answered, but no change has happened yet. :)
[02:42] <lifeless> it will be fixes by moving to knits
[02:42] <lifeless> and that is in progress
[02:42] <lifeless> *fixed*
[02:42] <lifeless> I have a test knit branch up. Have you played with it ?
[02:42] <lifeless> I emailed launchpad@ about this
[02:42] <kiko> I haven't had the guts but I might tomorrow
[02:43] <kiko> this week is review week though -- no time for anything extra
[02:43] <lifeless> so, if you want a smooth transition, dont nag :)
[02:43] <lifeless> knit conversions take > 24 hours and 2 gbs of RAM
[02:44] <kiko> I don't think I have the hardware either!
[02:44] <lifeless> I want to be 100% sure that I have a smoother path for the devs, with no mistakes, before we move. Or nothing will get done for a week
[02:44] <lifeless> I will have the key data preconverted, and instructions on how to use it to make your conversions much faster
[02:44] <lifeless> (minutes or hours rather than days)
[02:55] <kiko> lifeless, well, I really wish we didn't take 8h to merge; could better testing on the LP tree when releasing new public versions
[02:55] <kiko> have helped?
[02:55] <lifeless> no.. its a pathological behaviour in weaves
[02:55] <lifeless> to repair all the data into canonical form is ~ 24 hours per branch
[02:56] <lifeless> knits avoid needing to repair it
[02:56] <lifeless> -> knits are important.
[05:35] <stub> I'm out phone shopping and stuff - probably 4 hours
[06:24] <dilys> Merge to test/launchpad/sourcecode/sqlobject/: [trivial]  Make test_enum expect IntegrityError as an alternative to ProgrammingError, and disable test_mxDateTime. (r56: Andrew Bennetts)
[06:25] <spiv> Excellent... maybe the buildbot merge will actually work *finally*.
[06:25] <spiv> I guess I'll know in about 4 hours :(
[06:26] <spiv> lifeless: I don't understand why a merge to non-launchpad branch should still be so slow... is it re-weaving even if the launchpad branch hasn't changed?
[06:30] <mpt> Gooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[06:38] <lifeless> spiv: shouldn't be.
[06:40] <spiv> lifeless: Hmm, that merge to sqlobject took several hours, just a merge to rocketfuel.
[06:40] <spiv> s/just/just like/
[06:44] <spiv> lifeless: It's currently doing a buildbot merge request, so if you want to, you could take a peek and see what balleny is doing with non-launchpad merge requests.
[07:03] <lamont> where does launchpad's morgue live?
[07:06] <spiv> lamont: You mean old packages?
[07:07] <lamont> spiv: yeah - packages that say "removed" but that I need the debs for.  specifically linux-image-2.6.15-*-{itanium,mckinley}-smp.deb
[07:07] <spiv> lamont: If you look at a source package in launchpad, it has links to old versions, which have links to downloads.
[07:07] <lamont> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+package/linux-image-2.6.15-19-mckinley-smp
[07:07] <lamont> is not helping me...
[07:07] <spiv> That is a spectacularly unhelpful page :)
[07:08] <spiv> mpt_: lamont found this rather uninformative page https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+package/linux-image-2.6.15-19-mckinley-smp
[07:09] <lamont> spiv: what I want is the .deb.... clues?
[07:10] <spiv> lamont: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/178649 ?
[07:11] <spiv> (from the "dapper ia64" link on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/2.6.15-19.29)
[07:11] <spiv> lamont: which links to https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/178649/linux-image-2.6.15-19-mckinley
[07:12] <spiv> Extremely convoluted, but it appears to all be there.
[07:12] <lamont> so how did you get there?
[07:14] <spiv> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/2.6.15-19.29 "dapper ia64" -> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/178649 "linux-image-2.6.15-19-mckinley-smp 2.6.15-19.29" -> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/178649/linux-image-2.6.15-19-mckinley
[07:52] <lifeless> jamesh: ping - review for you to do
[07:53] <lifeless> stub: theres a review for you to do
[08:50] <SteveA> morning
[08:52] <SteveA> spiv: ping
[08:52] <spiv> SteveA: pong
[08:52] <SteveA> let's voip
[08:53] <spiv> sure, just plugging in.
[09:17] <mpt> spiv, yes, I showed that page to sabdfl in London
[09:18] <mpt> or one of its siblings, anyway
[09:18] <mpt> it's bug 32241
[09:44] <ddaa> jamesh: spiv: mpool: SteveA: lifeless: meeting in 16 mins
[09:44] <SteveA> ddaa: thanks
[09:44] <ddaa> where is my mind... where is my mind?
[09:45] <jamesh> okay
[09:45] <SteveA> way out in the water, see it swimming
[09:47] <spiv> SteveA: http://hg.thinkmo.de/moin/1.5?f=2d62b4450b70;file=MoinMoin/parser/wiki.py
[09:59] <ddaa> jamesh: spiv: -> #launchpad-meeting
[10:10] <carlos> morning
[10:11] <SteveA> hi carlos 
[10:30] <fabbione> hey guys
[10:30] <fabbione> i have a simple question
[10:31] <fabbione> ubuntu-x-swat has been subscribed to a bunch of bugs..
[10:31] <fabbione> some of these were bugs in other packages
[10:31] <fabbione> like package foo
[10:31] <fabbione> and ubuntu-x-swat (as team) doesn't give a shit^W^W^Wcare about foo
[10:31] <fabbione> how do i unsubscribe the team from that bug?
[10:35] <SteveA> fabbione: please tell me an actual package (or a URL to a package) that is subscribed, that you want to unsubscribe
[10:35] <fabbione> SteveA: several.. how do i that?
[10:36] <SteveA> i don't know much about bug subscription UIs, but if you give me a URL, i'll have a better chance of seeing what's going on
[10:36] <fabbione> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15/+bug/36511
[10:36] <fabbione> this one for example
[10:36] <fabbione> that's nvidia binary driver issue
[10:36] <fabbione> and infinity takes care of them manually.. originally reported against xorg
[10:37] <fabbione> and as swat i don't care to be subscribed to them
[10:37] <fabbione> so i want to avoid getting extra emails etc.
[10:37] <SteveA> and in the menu, top left, you just have
[10:37] <SteveA> "subscribe" and "subscribe someone else"? 
[10:37] <fabbione> yes
[10:37] <SteveA> no "unsubscribe team"
[10:37] <fabbione> exactly
[10:37] <SteveA> okay, that feature hasn't landed yet :-(   it's being coded right now
[10:37] <fabbione> at least make that available to the team owners
[10:37] <SteveA> so, answer is... ask stub 
[10:37] <fabbione> oh meh dude
[10:38] <SteveA> it's on it's way man
[10:38] <fabbione> SteveA: i am going to add you to the kernel team and x-team just to let you understand the spam :D
[10:38] <fabbione> or better
[10:38] <fabbione> i will add launchpad mailing lists :P
[10:39] <stub> Yo
[10:40] <SteveA> hi stub
[10:40] <SteveA> so, the "unsubscribe team" UI hasn't landed in production yet
[10:40] <SteveA> don't know if it's landed in RF
[10:40] <SteveA> fabbione has a team he wants unsubscribed from various bugs
[10:41] <SteveA> would you help him identify those bugs, then do it on production?
[10:42] <fabbione> SteveA: i need to do it bit by bit
[10:42] <fabbione> there are about 420 bugs to parse
[10:42] <SteveA> well, stub could give you a table of subscribed bugs with some information
[10:42] <SteveA> then you could mark that table with the ones you want unsubscribed, perhaps
[10:43] <SteveA> or, maybe you can just give a list of bug numbers to stub
[10:43] <fabbione> SteveA: it will still requires me to go and read all the bug...
[10:43] <fabbione> just let me know when i can do it
[10:43] <fabbione> so that i can avoid getting 340839483947 extra emails
[10:43] <SteveA> bradb or kiko will be able to say when the actual UI will land
[10:43] <SteveA> they'll be around in a few hours
[10:43] <stub> Yup. I can generate reports, or if you can give me some rules I might be able to bulk unsubscribe the worst offenders (eg. all bugs targetted to package foo you don't care about)
[10:45] <fabbione> ok i will wait for kiko and bradb and bitch them :)
[10:59] <SteveA> sabdfl: bzr conf call?
[11:03] <sabdfl> SteveA: i'm in
[11:22] <carlos> ddaa: hi, around?
[11:24] <SteveA> carlos: i expect he'll be back in 15-20 mins
[11:25] <carlos> SteveA: ok, thanks
[11:34] <Russell> i have +spec question
[11:36] <Russell> i have a "Specification" question... after someone set new specification, who can set the Definition Status?
[11:37] <Russell> the registrant, or an admin?
[11:41] <ddaa> hey carlos
[11:42] <carlos> ddaa: hi
[11:42] <carlos> ddaa: I registered the product gettext some time ago to get a bzr mirror of its cvs
[11:42] <ddaa> right
[11:42] <carlos> but I detected that they moved the server to another place
[11:42] <carlos> how should we handle that?
[11:42] <ddaa> there's a bug filed somewhere about that being brainded
[11:42] <carlos> update the information on launchpad and your scripts will handle it?
[11:43] <ddaa> but basically you have to tell me
[11:43] <Russell> can someone plz answer my question?
[11:44] <carlos> Russell: I don't know the answer for sure, but I think the owner of the product where the spec is stored
[11:44] <carlos> ddaa: ok, I just told you it, what information do you need?
[11:45] <Russell> carlos: ok thanks a lot
[11:49] <ddaa> carlos: the updated cvs details, as you would enter them in the form
[11:49] <ddaa> ATM, I think you need admin to do that.
[11:50] <ddaa> numerous historical and bad reason why this is that way
[11:50] <ddaa> lot of hard work to fix properly
[11:51] <carlos> ddaa: ok, I will send you an email with that information
[12:19] <sivang> morning all
[12:48] <carlos> sivang: morning
[12:49] <carlos> sivang: is your launchpad tree working now?
[12:50] <sivang> mornign carlos !
[12:50] <sivang> carlos: indeed :)
[12:50] <lifeless> spiv: ping
[12:50] <sivang> carlos: elmo helped me to find out that my zope/lib had been deprived of its symlinks, and became real duplicated files.
[12:51] <sivang> carlos: which caused the whole trouble.
[12:51] <spiv> lifeless: pong
[12:51] <lifeless> what do you want done with your current reviews
[12:51] <lifeless> will you do them in evenings? or should I reallocate now
[12:51] <spiv> Reallocate, please.
[12:53] <carlos> sivang: oh, I see
[12:53] <lifeless> jamesh: around ?
[12:53] <jamesh> lifeless: yeah
[12:54] <lifeless> I've given you the branch of bjorns that was merge-conditional
[12:54] <lifeless> hopefully you will have nothing to do there
[12:54] <lifeless> its because andrew is on jury duty now
[12:55] <spiv> There shouldn't be much to worry about with that branch.
[12:55] <lifeless> also, bradb/launchpad/malone-smallfixes/ is coming up to 4 days, can you do it today ?
[12:56] <jamesh> I've got it open in an editor window.  Will finish it off
[12:56] <lifeless> jamesh: great, thanks
[01:08] <carlos> BjornT: With the new pagetest infrastructure, could we move the new tests with the doctests? The new system makes really simple the mix of http tests with usual python tests so we could test a view class and at the same time, how it renders
[01:08] <carlos> SteveA: ^^^
[01:09] <BjornT> carlos: i would say, no. page tests are used to test the page on a much higher level than normal doctests do. if the view class is complex, doctests still serve a purpose.
[01:09] <carlos> BjornT: I'm not talking about not doing doctests
[01:09] <carlos> but to mix both kind of tests
[01:10] <carlos> so we have a single place with all tests for the same context
[01:11] <lifeless> carlos: will it improve or reduce clarity though
[01:11] <lifeless> carlos: in bzr we have very clear separation of 'internals' and 'rendering' issues in the test suite. 
[01:11] <carlos> lifeless: I'm talking about the view classes testing
[01:11] <lifeless> carlos: I think it helps myself, because its very clear where to go to analyse a internal or rendering issue, and where to put the tests.
[01:11] <carlos> perhaps we should move the view classes with the pagetests, don't know
[01:12] <lifeless> carlos: yes, I know you are.
[01:12] <carlos> lifeless: you are right that database tests should not be mixed with the render part
[01:13] <carlos> but a view class is part of the rendering, isn't it?
[01:13] <BjornT> carlos: i'm not sure it will help much. the new page test system doesn't give you access to view class.
[01:13] <lifeless> carlos: mmm, maybe
[01:14] <BjornT> carlos: well, the view class is used to render the page, so is the database class.
[01:14] <carlos> BjornT: I know, but the same way I create the view class inside doctests, I could do it inside the same testing files for pagetests
[01:15] <carlos> BjornT: but the view class is a direct part of the way the page renders
[01:15] <lifeless> carlos: lets ask this a different way
[01:15] <lifeless> carlos: testing the rendering tests the page template. Testing the view tests form processing, testing the db class tests core business logic.
[01:16] <lifeless> carlos: is it helpful to have page template tests and form logic tests in the same place ? [what does it help, what does it make easier? will it improve narrative tests?] 
[01:17] <carlos> I think the answer is yes, you have methods there that populate the form, so you could test first the view class output and later teh rendering, if the first works and the second fails, you know the bug is with the template
[01:18] <carlos> if both fail, you know that the problem is in the way you process the form or you prepare the data to be rendered
[01:18] <carlos> s/or you prepare/or the way you prepare/
[01:19] <lifeless> BjornT: what do you think?
[01:19] <carlos> if you change the view class, sometimes, you need to fix the template
[01:19] <carlos> if you have both together, you can do it more easy IMHO
[01:19] <carlos> the database code changes is different as you are changing a public API
[01:21] <lifeless> the view class is a public api too
[01:21] <lifeless> (many templates to one view, many views to one content class)
[01:22] <BjornT> lifeless, carlos: well, a view class is often used in more than one page, so the view class tests will be scattered around in pagetests/ somewhere. i think it's valuable to have specific tests for the view class in a single place, in doc/.
[01:22] <lifeless> BjornT: I agree with you.
[01:23] <lifeless> in fact its this Many-1, Many-1 groupings that drive the separation IMO.
[01:23] <carlos> BjornT: hmm, that's a good point
[01:24] <carlos> this drives me to the my next question, should we use the same file to document/test view and database code?
[01:24] <carlos> Rosetta does it, for instance, doc/pofile.txt tests both, the view and the database
[01:24] <lifeless> definately not
[01:25] <lifeless> IMNSHO
[01:25] <carlos> should we use pofile.txt and pofile-view.txt then?
[01:25] <lifeless> for the same reason - there can be more than one view per content class
[01:26] <lifeless> so we should ensure that tests for the content class are in one place, not scattered with each view
[01:26] <carlos> well, pofile.txt tests all objects defined at interfaces/pofile.py and the same for the view
[01:27] <lifeless> that said, if there is only one view, I think its ok to put the view tests with the content class tests.
[01:27] <lifeless> because we dont want to make the common case difficult
[01:27] <carlos> so you want one test file per view class?
[01:28] <carlos> except for the cases where we just have one single view class?
[01:29] <lifeless> carlos: what do you think, does it make sense? or is it going to make it harder to work with ?
[01:30] <carlos> well, I would prefer to have one single file for database code and one single file for all view testing
[01:30] <carlos> but I also understand that multiple views is the same use case that requires multiple files for the pagetests
[01:31] <carlos> lifeless: if we do such split, I would prefer to have something like doc/views/ to store the view tests
[01:31] <carlos> instead of having all together in a single directory
[01:32] <BjornT> carlos: we already have doc/foo-pages.txt
[01:34] <carlos> BjornT: but if we should create one file per each view class we have, that list would explode, right?
[01:36] <carlos> BjornT: btw, I just saw on those files you pointed to me, that we have a TestRequest class, I will be able to kill a dummy one that daf had to create for our tests :-D
[01:37] <BjornT> carlos: not really. it's not one file per view class, it's one file (sometimes more) per 'foo', for example product-pages.txt, bug-pages.txt.
[01:39] <carlos> BjornT: ok
[01:51] <ploum> carlos: how is it possible that you have so much karma in translations only ! it's incredible !
[01:52] <carlos> ploum: I'm a cheater
[01:52] <carlos> ;-)
[01:52] <carlos> ploum: it's due some admin tasks I did
[01:52] <carlos> I need to figure a way to prevent this to happen
[01:52] <ploum> ah ! Ok... It seems so huge ;-)
[01:55] <carlos> ploum: I had to import manually all OpenOffice translations and the .po files lack the translator credits and my account was used as the author of those translations
[01:55] <ploum> ehe :-)
[01:55] <ploum> Funny :-)
[02:13] <SteveA> jamesh: ping?
[02:15] <SteveA> mpt_: ping
[02:27] <ddaa> Mh... moving a bunch of bugs from launchpad to launchpad-bazaar
[02:27] <ddaa> bradb: do you think it would be useful to have project milestones?
[02:28] <ddaa> I created 1.0, 1.1, future, oops, and oops-timeout milestones on launchpad-bazaar to preserve the milestone information when moving bugs, but it strikes me that this loses the ability of seeing the milestone information for a whole project in a synthetic way.
[02:43] <bradb> ddaa: It could be useful for Launchpad, but I'm not sure about other projects.
[02:43] <ddaa> If it's useful for us, it's at least useful to one project :)
[02:44] <ddaa> might be useful for other ones... though I admit that large projects tend to be highly idiosyncrasic
[02:44] <ddaa> No use comparing Apache and Gcc...
[02:57] <bradb> ddaa: (Sorry, making breakfast, doing email, etc.) If we can think of a few other examples than LP--which often takes to be an exception to its own rules--it could be interesting to explore further.
[02:57] <bradb> s/takes to be/tends to be/
[03:34] <salgado> yo kiko
[03:34] <salgado> what about the review of that mirror prober changes I did?
[03:35] <kiko> did you send me a link or heckle me for it?
[03:35] <salgado> I sent you the link, but didn't heckle you, no
[03:35] <kiko> no heckling
[03:35] <salgado> I'll mail you the diff now, so you don't forget it. :)
[03:35] <kiko> no review
[03:36] <kiko> :-P
[03:36] <kiko> it's better to wait for me to have a free slot
[03:36] <kiko> than to make my inbox situation even worse :)
[03:36] <kiko> I will have a free slot in an hour
[03:36] <salgado> that's great
[03:57] <kiko> salgado, hande's email suggests we need to get shipit in the next rollout. will that happen?
[03:58] <salgado> I need to coordinate with a reviewer
[04:00] <kiko> you'll be dead!
[04:00] <kiko> salgado, what was the bug number for the .manifest
[04:02] <salgado> don't remember
[04:02] <salgado> I'll find it
[04:03] <salgado> bug 43652
[04:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43652 in ubuntu-cdimage "Need a text file containing the list of ISO images that releases.ubuntu.com (and all its mirrors) should have" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43652
[04:03] <sabdfl> erk
[04:03] <sabdfl> who is test@canonical.com and how is (s)he landing code in Launchpad?
[04:03] <kiko> landing code?
[04:04] <sabdfl> i just saw this in pending merges:
[04:04] <sabdfl>     test@canonical.com 2006-03-23 add IBranchSetAPI.link_branch_to_bug()
[04:04] <sabdfl> after a merge from RF to al old branch
[04:06] <sabdfl>                         merged: test@canonical.com-20060323072900-b13ed1f4113f7958
[04:06] <sabdfl>                         committer: test@canonical.com
[04:06] <sabdfl>                         branch nick: BugWatches-part-2
[04:06] <sabdfl>                         timestamp: Thu 2006-03-23 07:29:00 +0000
[04:06] <sabdfl>                         message:
[04:06] <sabdfl>                           fix test failures.
[04:07] <kiko> sabdfl, that's BjornT's landing
[04:07] <kiko> and I'm not sure why it happened
[04:07] <kiko> but it may be related to the zope3.2 landing
[04:07] <BjornT> ah, that would be me :-/ i was testing the XMLRPC interface, and set BZR_EMAIL to the test user, and probably forgot to unset it before I commited some change.
[04:15] <salgado> BjornT, ping
[04:15] <BjornT> hi salgado 
[04:16] <salgado> BjornT, I have a question on one of the tests you added on the branch I'm reviewing
[04:16] <salgado> +If the user chooses "Yes", a bugtask will be added to the bug.
[04:16] <salgado> +
[04:16] <salgado> +    >>> request = LaunchpadTestRequest(
[04:16] <salgado> +    ...     form={'CONFIRM': '', 'field.product': 'alsa-utils',
[04:16] <salgado> +    ...           'field.bugtracker': '2'})
[04:16] <salgado> does this actually test the rendering of self.confirmation_page ?
[04:17] <salgado> or just the form data processing?
[04:17] <BjornT> salgado: only the form data processing. the rendering is tested in a page test.
[04:18] <salgado> ah, right. I must have overlooked the pagetest then
[04:23] <salgado> I found it a bit confusing because you replace self.index on that page, and in the doctest it's not trivial to see that it changes itself into a confirmation page depending on the button you click
[04:24] <BjornT> salgado: true. i should check that the confirmation page is indeed used.
[04:25] <salgado> yeah, that'd be good
[04:27] <salgado> anyway, that branch looks good. you have r=salgado
[04:27] <salgado> I'm assuming the work to improve the widget and to allow adding a bug watch to an existing task will be comming soon, right?
[04:28] <BjornT> thanks. yes, the widget work should be done this week.
[04:29] <salgado> hey kiko, let's do some code review? ;)
[04:29] <kiko> salgado, 5 minutes turkish
[04:34] <BjornT> kiko: while you're in code review code, maybe you could review https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileGoGA4C.html? it's a small patch to fix the problem with the wrapping of bug notifications.
[04:46] <SteveA> ddaa: ping
[04:48] <ddaa> having a snack, back in a few minutes
[04:49] <SteveA> ok
[04:55] <sivang> kiko: I can't find a bug report for the milestones with private bugs display prevention, should I file one?
[04:56] <kiko> matsubara?
[04:56] <kiko> sivang, coordinate with matsubara but yes I guess
[04:57] <matsubara> sivang: which bug are you looking for?
[04:58] <sivang> matsubara: not a bug yet, you recall the milestone page from yesterday ?
[04:59] <matsubara> sivang: yes. 
[05:03] <ddaa> SteveA: I'm here
[05:12] <salgado> kiko, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileh336Mc.html
[05:36] <jordi> kiko, carlos, sabdfl: ping?
[05:36] <jordi> oh, and SteveA is also here
[05:37] <kiko> yes jordi?
[05:37] <carlos> jordi: pong
[05:38] <jordi> ok, so there's this debate on the gaim list wether to adopt rosetta or not.
[05:38] <jordi> Two people contrary to the move wield the QA issues to be against it.
[05:38] <jordi> "because anyone can translate"
[05:39] <jordi> An obvious remedy would be to create the Gaim translators, but I always try to defeat that idea in the list.
[05:39] <carlos> jordi: did you offered them to use the Ubuntu one?
[05:40] <jordi> yes, but you know some teams are greatly oversized there.
[05:40] <jordi> I always offer the Ubuntu translators group.
[05:40] <carlos> jordi: btw, Xanax use case needs their own translation team created
[05:40] <jordi> I saw that. It's the suck.
[05:40] <jordi> That's why I was pinging mark as well.
[05:46] <jordi> carlos: did you see my post re: install-guide?
[05:46] <jordi> carlos: do you have any take on that one?
[05:46] <carlos> no, I didn't see it
[05:49] <jordi>  carlos, I need to say something to rebate the QA question.
[05:49] <jordi> Would a Gaim translators group be a possibility that we can ofer?
[05:49] <jordi> offer
[05:49] <jordi> I don't like the idea, but gaim would be good press.
[05:50] <carlos> jordi: I think is something we should offer, yes
[05:50] <jordi> do we need kiko/stevea/sabdfl to OK this?
[05:50] <jordi> I fear this will open a cascade of petitions though.
[05:50] <jordi> Plone, zwiki...
[05:51] <kiko> jordi, can you explain the problem to me? it seems that translation teams are an appropriate solution for their problem. what is your issue with it?
[05:52] <carlos> kiko: the main thing is that we want to reduce the amount of translation teams
[05:52] <carlos> and reuse as much infrastructure as possible
[05:52] <jordi> kiko: we try to encourage people using ubuntu translators
[05:52] <jordi> else we will get the GTrue translation team and so on.
[05:53] <jordi> besides, assigning people/teams to groups is an admin request
[05:53] <kiko> you mean GNU bool?
[05:53] <kiko> hmmm
[05:53] <kiko> why does using a translation team not reuse infrastructure?
[05:53] <jordi> it's bad enough for Ubuntu translators. Multiply it by 20 and it's madness, unless we make it easy for groups to have an owner (I already asked for that in a bug I think)
[05:56] <jordi> kiko: already existing teams, mailing lists, etc.
[05:57] <kiko> so let me get this straight
[05:57] <jordi> kiko: not saying it wouldn't work for us, just that we've been strongly encouraging Ubuntu tranlsators for a long while.
[05:57] <kiko> your main issue is that it generates admin overhead?
[05:57] <jordi> and, as it is now, adding a number of groups creates a big launchpad admin overwork I can't even do
[05:58] <jordi> that, and that IIRC, mark had the idea of using ubuhntu translators whenever possible.
[05:59] <kiko> well
[05:59] <kiko> hmmm
[06:00] <kiko> jordi, but this is for an upstream providing translations, right?
[06:01] <jordi> yes
[06:01] <kiko> I mean, they have a right to say "we would prefer to have our own control, rather than allow people on the u-t team to decide what is good for Gaim"
[06:01] <kiko> do you not agree?
[06:01] <jordi> absolutely.
[06:25] <jordi> carlos, kiko: I have a lengthy mail addressing the current concerns in the debate.
[06:25] <jordi> Should I send, or would you want to proof-read?
[06:26] <kiko> jordi, I said that because, essentially, the decision to use ubuntu translators is theirs. if they don't want to, they should still be able to control their translations. they should however be strongly encouraged to use it.
[06:27] <carlos> kiko++
[06:27] <carlos> jordi: I think is better if someone else reads it
[06:28] <carlos> It helped me a lot with the problem with Esperanto translations lose
[06:29] <kiko> carlos, jordi: now, the fact that the team has no owner is a problem and we should/could probably fix it in 1-2h :)
[06:31] <carlos> but kiko++ too
[06:31] <kiko> salgado, I am having a bit of difficulty explaining the 0.5h thing, which seems to suggest the code can be made simpler.
[06:32] <salgado> same here...
[06:32] <kiko> let me hop upstairs
[06:33] <salgado> do it!
[06:34] <jordi> kiko, carlos, have a glance at my email.
[06:35] <kiko> reading
[06:35] <jordi> k
[06:35] <jordi> let me get a pointer to this thread
[06:36] <carlos> jordi: how did you manage to send me the email without date?
[06:37] <jordi> it's not sent :)
[06:37] <jordi> I bounced an unsent mail
[06:37] <jordi> did your client like it? :)
[06:37] <carlos> jordi: evolution shows the date like ?
[06:38] <jordi> heh
[06:38] <jordi> lackss the header
[06:38] <jordi> lacks
[06:41] <kiko> going
[06:41] <carlos> jordi: you have my ok on that email, but I think we should plan something to solve the QA problems with Ubuntu teams
[06:42] <carlos> the right answer should be that Ubuntu teams rock and we don't have QA issues...
[06:43] <carlos> for instance, I need to talk with koke and define a better procedure for the Spanish translation team, today we accept anyone that ask to join and that's not good at all...
[06:43] <carlos> jordi: we should teach people that Ubuntu teams are QA teams no translation teams
[06:44] <carlos> and for that we should finish the reviwer UI 
[06:45] <jordi> sorry, I'm at a meeting at work
[06:45] <jordi> will be back soonish
[06:46] <carlos> jordi: ok
[06:48] <jordi> carlos: agree
[06:48] <jordi> Catalan and Italian teams are trying remedies for this
[06:49] <carlos> jordi: I did already some fixes to the karma stuff and with some improvements to our UI to give team maintainers the info about how good are people with translations
[06:49] <carlos> we should be able to improve the procedure
[06:50] <jordi> should we call for a IRC meeting with team leaders to talk about this?
[06:50] <carlos> jordi: I still need to take a look to mdke's thread...
[06:50] <carlos> let me be up to date with the mailing list and we will take about it
[06:50] <jordi> yes
[06:50] <jordi> please look at daniel's nylander thread though
[06:51] <carlos> jordi: if it's in the mailing list, I will take a look
[06:52] <jordi> k
[06:52] <jordi> see ther'es a mail by Kamion in the list. It's that.
[06:52] <jordi> carlos: should I fire the email?
[06:53] <carlos> kiko: ?
[06:56] <sabdfl> jordi: np to create a gaim translation team
[06:56] <sabdfl> group
[06:56] <sabdfl> they can re-use ubuntu translation teams where those are well run
[06:56] <sabdfl> so members of the individual language teams can be identical
[06:56] <jordi> sabdfl: maybe you want to proofread this as well?
[06:57] <jordi> sabdfl: I'll change that bit on the email
[07:09] <jordi> oh great
[07:09] <jordi>  the sf mail archives are fsckd
[07:09] <jordi> no link for you guys.
[07:10] <jordi> kiko, sabdfl: I'm waiting for an ok to send this to the gaim people
[07:16] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: bug 2496 leftover, fixing the login pages crash when user enter a non-ascii password. OOPS-127B7 r=salgado (r3543: Diogo Matsubara)
[07:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2496 in launchpad "Launchpad blows up if you try to use non-ascii characters in your password" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2496
[07:16] <Ubugtu> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/127B7
[07:18] <carlos> see you later
[07:21] <ThomasZ> question; why is this channel on freenode while there is no source release of launchpad (and thus, its by definition not open source) ?
[07:22] <jordi> kiko: will answer this from home
[07:22] <jordi> thanks
[07:24] <SteveA> ThomasZ: hello.  launchpad isn't open source, true.
[07:24] <SteveA> freenode isn't just for open source projects, though
[07:28] <jordi> leaving
[07:31] <ThomasZ> SteveA: ok
[07:33] <sabdfl> jordi: +1
[07:53] <kiko> matsubara, good work.
[07:54] <matsubara> kiko: thanks.
[07:55] <mdke> carlos: I have 30 bounce mails for u-translators, any change of turning off some of the notifications and maybe limit it to one per day about pending requests?
[08:05] <carlos> mdke: sure
[08:06] <jbailey> matsubara: Your comments on 3157 have URLs with localhost in them. =)
[08:06] <mdke> carlos: thanks, I feel a bit cheeky asking, but that's a lot of mails in one afternoon ;)
[08:06] <matsubara> jbailey: I know that. Just a note to myself. I always do that.
[08:06] <carlos> mdke: welcome to my world of pain ;-)
[08:06] <carlos> see you later (again)
[08:07] <mdke> carlos: they are easy to turn off :D I'll do it
[08:07] <jbailey> matsubara: 'kay.  Making sure it was intentional =)
[08:08] <mdke> carlos: done
[08:21] <kiko> hey bradb 
[08:24] <ploum> hello again
[08:24] <bradb> kiko: hi
[08:28] <jordi> sabdfl: k, will apply kiko's comments and send this
[08:46] <jordi> sent
[09:30] <ddaa> carlos: updated the cvsroot of gettext, kicked import, let's see if it works
[09:41] <carlos> ddaa: cool, thanks
[10:42] <ddaa> carlos: it did not work
[10:42] <ddaa> same ol' same ol'
[10:42] <ddaa> ValueError: attempt to patch non extant file : gettext-tools/src/recode-sr-latin.c
[10:44] <ddaa> no easy fix for that
[10:56] <carlos> ddaa: But I guess we need to solve it to support cvs server changes, right?
[10:56] <ddaa> no, it's a "normal" failure mode of cscvs
[10:57] <ddaa> not specific to changing servers
[10:57] <carlos> oh, I see
[10:57] <ddaa> there can be various root causes, proper diagnostic and fixing is a painful manual process, and the system is not really designed to allow throwing up branches to start from scratch
[10:58] <ddaa> though I'd be inclined to make it easier to do exactly that, what do you think?
[10:59] <ddaa> (in any case, that would be after we have bzr-native imports, but I'd like to gather some user feedback)
[10:59] <ddaa> the alternative would be publishing all the data so the users can diagnose and do the fixup themselves
[11:00] <ddaa> (all the data = cscvs source code and cscvs sqlite cache, the later would probably need asking sabdfl though)
[11:01] <ddaa> deep down, the problem is "cvs sucks", we cannot fix that, so the suckage is bound to resurface now and then.
[11:02] <ddaa> carlos: what do you think?
[11:03] <carlos> ddaa: well, I suppose that throwing what we have at the moment and start again would mean that anyone using it will have broken branches, right?
[11:04] <ddaa> yes, in the sense that smart merging abilities will be lost
[11:04] <ddaa> or pulling, etc.
[11:05] <ddaa> though it's only a problem if people do have outstanding bzr branches
[11:05] <carlos> hmm, I think that's possible now, but not when people start using launchpad more and more
[11:06] <carlos> specially when I was the one that requested that import
[11:06] <carlos> and is ok for me to do it, not sure if someone else is using it
[11:07] <ddaa> no other bzr branch registered in launchpad
[11:07] <ddaa> for gettext
[11:08] <ddaa> carlos: if you wish me to take further action on that import, I'd like if you could send a message to the mailing list
[11:09] <carlos> launchpad?
[11:09] <ddaa> Yes. I just had a discussion with SteveA about importd, so he might find that interesting, and might have something to say.
[11:09] <carlos> ok
[11:17] <Keybuk> wishlist
[11:18] <Keybuk> I wish there was a way to add a comment to a Proposed Team Member without approving or declining them
[11:18] <Keybuk> against what should that be filed?
[11:18] <salgado> Keybuk, Launchpad
[11:18] <ddaa> the beauty of punctuation
[11:18] <salgado> Keybuk, that'd be something like a testimonial supporting (or not) the proposed member?
[11:19] <Keybuk> reason they weren't approved at a particular meeting
[11:19] <Keybuk> e.g. "asked to work with a sponsor and come back later"
[11:40] <lifeless> morning all
[11:59] <sabdfl> Keybuk: good idea - like a "membership status whiteboard"