[12:02] <sfllaw> dholbach: Night.
[12:54] <mdke> sivang: ping
[01:01] <boubbiii111> could someone help me with installing driver for a network card please
[01:01] <HrdwrBoB> not in here
[01:01] <boubbiii111> where do you thing 
[01:01] <HrdwrBoB> go to #ubuntu
[01:01] <boubbiii111> please
[01:05] <sivang> mdke: pong
[01:05] <mdke> sivang: what font does hebrew use?
[01:06] <sivang> mdke: there are a couple
[01:06] <mdke> in Ubuntu?
[01:06] <sivang> mdke: see 'culmus' in the repo
[01:06] <sivang> mdke: in contains the fonts we use in ubuntu
[01:07] <mdke> not installed by default?
[01:07] <sivang> mdke: installed by default
[01:07] <sivang> mdke: promoted to main and included since warty IIRC
[01:08] <mdke> sivang: it is not installed by default here.
[01:08] <sivang> mdke: ah, okay, but it's still in main. do you want it to be installed by default?
[01:08] <sivang> :)
[01:08] <mdke> no, no. I just wondered if hebrew works ootb
[01:09] <sivang> mdke: well, I've been using dapper on this laptop, and it appears that culmus was not installed as well
[01:09] <sivang> mdke: however, I used hebrew ootb before installing culmus now
[01:09] <mdke> right, so there is something else
[01:09] <sivang> mdke: with no problem (web sites, input, etc)
[01:09] <sivang> mdke: yes , must be
[01:10] <poimen> what is the diference in the flight releases and the beta LTS ???
[01:10] <mdke> poimen: have a look at http://www.ubuntu.com/testing
[01:11] <poimen> ok but why if we were on beta releses it went back to aplha?
[01:11] <sivang> mdke: I wonder what are the bits who make it work nonetheless
[01:12] <mdke> poimen: no, flight 7 is post-beta
[01:12] <poimen> so it is almost a rc?
[01:13] <mdke> poimen: it is a release, which is better than the previous one. That's the idea, anyway, I think
[01:13] <poimen> ok
[01:14] <LaserJock> it does seem sort of weird to have Flights after Betas
[01:15] <LaserJock> I've been thinking of it like Flights -> Betas -> RC -> Release
[01:16] <poimen> yeah that was whit I got confused
[01:16] <poimen> why*
[01:18] <LaserJock> it seems they are not chronological, but perhaps more related to how well tested the releases are
[01:26] <ploum> who is in charge for Ubuntu SoC ? 
[01:26] <ploum> (the admin of the SoC )
[01:28] <mdke> JaneW, I believe
[01:54] <bddebian> Howdy peoples
[01:56] <HiddenWolf> anyone awake still?
[01:56] <LaserJock> of course
[01:56] <HiddenWolf> Happen to know how I can check if my mouseevents are coming in doubled?
[01:56] <HiddenWolf> Singleclicks get treated like doubles half the time.
[01:58] <HiddenWolf> ack
[01:58] <HiddenWolf> upgrade messed with my doubleclick timeout. :)
[01:59] <bddebian> heh
[02:03] <sivang> HiddenWolf: ha! then I am not crazy!
[02:07] <HiddenWolf> *chuckle*
[02:12] <sivang> night all
[02:13] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir: you asked me to see if the libnotify positioning bug was fixed, I guess so, lotsa popups play nice: http://hiddenwolf.org/media/files/notify-spam.png
[02:14] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir: closed it, just thought the picture might be funny. :)
[06:04] <Mithrandir> HiddenWolf: heh. :-)
[08:22] <fabbione> jdub: piiiing?
[08:31] <jdub> fabbione: i'd say pooooong, but it sounds bad ;)
[08:31] <fabbione> jdub: dude.. i did ask you about your G3 toilet seat test a few days ago.. so what can you tell me about it?
[08:31] <jdub> fabbione: it's not starting up!
[08:32] <fabbione> what is not starting up?
[08:32] <fabbione> X?
[08:32] <fabbione> or the entire cd?
[08:32] <jdub> fabbione: i think there's something wrong with the power adapter - i'm going to borrow a friend's one to see
[08:32] <jdub> the entire machine
[08:32] <fabbione> ah crap
[08:32] <fabbione> jdub: i really really need you to test that stuff yesterday
[08:32] <fabbione> do you think you can speed it up?
[08:32] <jdub> hmm; ok - i'll see what i can do
[08:33] <fabbione> thanks
[08:36] <pitti> Good morning
[08:55] <pitti> fabbione: hm, so what shall this hal patch do again? in his own reply, the reporter seems to indicate that there is something wrong with his patch, and David didn't answer either
[08:55] <fabbione> pitti: you want to talk with benh here on freenode
[08:55] <fabbione> it's an endianess issue
[08:55] <fabbione> pitti: benh in #xorg-devel
[09:04] <pitti> fabbione: ah, I see that hal upstream applied parts of his patch, which looks like the endianess fixing part; that looks fine
[09:05] <fabbione> pitti: ok great
[09:22] <pitti> siretart: ping
[09:27] <pitti> siretart: do you have some minutes to merge libphp-adodb from Debian? the new upstream version fixes a couple of vulns (but I can't request a sync, the dependencies differ in ubuntu)
[09:28] <dholbach> good morning
[09:35] <pitti> fabbione: tested the patch on my ppc, works nicely
[09:35] <pitti> hi dholbach 
[09:35] <fabbione> pitti: ok cool
[09:35] <dholbach> hey pitti
[09:37] <siretart> pitti: I can have a look at it, okay
[09:37] <pitti> siretart: thanks
[10:09] <pitti> hey hey carlos 
[10:09] <carlos> morning
[10:12] <siretart> pitti: ok. I merged the debian upstream. 
[10:13] <siretart> err, the latest debian version 4.72-0.1, that is
[10:13] <siretart> pitti: the thing is, I think this needs a uvf exception report anyway
[10:13] <pitti> siretart: motu-uvf?
[10:13] <siretart> dholbach: perhaps you can say something?
[10:14] <dholbach> i have no idea what you are talking about?
[10:14] <siretart> dholbach: it is basically a security update, do I need to create a complete report for that?
[10:14] <pitti> dholbach: libphp-adodb, new upstream, fixes ~ 5 vulnerabilities
[10:14] <dholbach> no, if it's reasonable and works for you
[10:14] <siretart> dholbach: updating libphp-adodb from 4.64 to 4.72
[10:14] <siretart> dholbach: see http://changelog.debian.net/libphp-adodb for changes
[10:15] <dholbach> we don't need to create bureaucratical processes around it
[10:15] <dholbach> I trust pitti with that - I said it before.
[10:15] <siretart> all right. uploading in a sek
[10:42] <pygi> Mithrandir: ping
[10:42] <Mithrandir> pygi: yes?
[10:42] <pitti> carlos: question about bug 39064 - since when you need .desktop files in Rosetta?
[10:43] <pygi> Mithrandir: have you looked at n-a application then?
[10:43] <pygi> and asked for mentorship?
[10:44] <carlos> pitti: I don't need .desktop files in Rosetta
[10:44] <pitti> carlos: so you mean the strings of the desktop file aren't in ubiquity's pot file?
[10:44] <Mithrandir> pygi: yes, I've looked a bit at it.  I'm not done reviewing.
[10:45] <pygi> Mithrandir: oki, just wanted to know :)
[10:45] <pygi> thanks
[10:45] <pitti> carlos: argh, I thought that bug was from you, sorry; so I guess the POT file is just incomplete then
[10:45] <carlos> pitti: I don't mean anything, I don't understand the questions ;-)
[10:45] <carlos> pitti: yeah, i didn't file that bug
[10:46] <pitti> alright, nevermind then, I'll check this with Kamion 
[10:46] <carlos> pitti: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/40927
[10:47] <carlos> pitti: that bug sounds like you forgot to fix something with the .desktop & gettext integration
[10:47] <pitti> carlos: yes, seems so; I guess nautilus uses the patched libgnome correctly, but doesn't set the locale right
[10:48] <carlos> pitti: perhaps nautilus is not using that .desktop parser?
[10:50] <pitti> carlos: I doubt it; if it wouldn't use the patch, it would just ignore X-Gettext-Translation-Domain
[10:50] <carlos> pitti: perhaps the portuguese translation comes from Ubuntu
[10:50] <carlos> and is only available from the .mo files
[10:51] <pitti> carlos: no, that bug is real, I just checked with the german one
[10:51] <carlos> oh, ok
[11:02] <pitti> Kamion: do you have a minute to talk about bug 40246?
[11:03] <pitti> Kamion: erm, bug 39064, sorry
[11:03] <pitti> Kamion: (ubiquity .desktop file translations)
[11:13] <fabbione> doko: ping?
[11:14] <doko> fabbione: pong
[11:14] <fabbione> doko: i am not sure i understand bug #15076
[11:15] <doko> bug 15076
[11:15] <fabbione> the bot seems dead
[11:15] <doko> ahh :-)
[11:24] <doko> fabbione: it seems, that xresprobe get's it right now, at least xorg.conf is configured correctly, the current (related) problem is, that although nicely configured, X starts with 640x480, the driver claims that this is the (unconnected) analogue D-Sub output. I was unable to get anything higher than 640x480 with the ati driver, the fglrx driver does use the configured settings and works fine (although the kernel crashes with th
[11:24] <doko> e fglrx driver when leaving X)
[11:25] <fabbione> doko: can you try to add the HorizSync and VertRefresh entries to your xorg.conf?
[11:25] <fabbione> i find it very strange that xorg.conf is configured properly
[11:29] <doko> will do later, requires a reset :-/
[11:32] <fabbione> doko: ok thanks
[11:33] <Mithrandir> fabbione: fwiw, I can reproduce the "X is in 640x480 mode most of the time" bug with a Radeon 8500.  If there's anything I can do to help you debug it, please tell me.
[11:35] <carlos> Riddell: hi, around?
[11:44] <Riddell> carlos: hi, yes
[11:52] <carlos> Riddell: any news about the kde translation domains I asked?
[11:52] <carlos> Riddell: are those valid translation domains or should I just ignore them?
[11:55] <siretart> mvo: hi. say, is it already possible to configure allowed origins in unattended-upgrades?
[11:57] <Riddell> carlos: I'll look into them today, promise :)
[11:57] <carlos> Riddell: ok, thanks
[11:57] <mvo> siretart: hm, it was not designed for it, but thinking about it, it is a very good idea to add it (and makes me wonder why it wasnt discussed during spec writing)
[11:58] <siretart> I added     allowed_origins.append((distributor,"%s-updates" % archive))
[11:58] <siretart> locally for now. but I saw a comment about addind a apt.Config variable for that
[12:01] <siretart> I've noticed also a 'blacklist' variable. perhaps it makes sense to make that configurable as well.. hm
[12:02] <fabbione> Mithrandir: the last one i checked was due to missing Horiz and Vert info that triggers the issue when the monitor is turned off or doesn't answer a DDC probe in time (like from sleep or something)
[12:02] <fabbione> Mithrandir: check your log and you will see that
[12:03] <Kamion> pitti: sure, I hadn't got round to looking at that bug yet really
[12:03] <mvo> siretart: do you mind to file a bug about it to remind me? that would be cool
[12:03] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I see it on the live cd most often, and the display is most assuredly on.
[12:03] <Kamion> suppose I need to look at it reasonably urgently
[12:03] <pitti> Kamion: I know what needs to be done in principle, but I'm not terribly familiar with the packaging
[12:03] <fabbione> Mithrandir: is it DVI?
[12:04] <Mithrandir> fabbione: nope
[12:04] <Kamion> pitti: what needs to be done? xgettext to generate a pot file?
[12:04] <pitti> I /msg you
[12:04] <viviersf> pitti, do you know if there is any security risks in running smbumount with setuid ?
[12:04] <fabbione> Mithrandir: can you check in the Xlogs if there is any DDC failure or put it somewhere?
[12:12] <pitti> viviersf: it should be pretty safe, unless you rip away a mounted file system underneath another user who wants to use it
[12:12] <pitti> viviersf: but I hope that smbumount checks for that, similarly to umount
[12:13] <viviersf> k thx
[12:15] <siretart> mvo: I just filed 2 bugs about unatttended-upgrades and subscribed you to both
[12:16] <slomo_> infinity: please give-back gajim on hppa... i don't know _what_ this error is but it should be solved be retrying ;)
[12:17] <raphink> :)
[12:23] <pitti> hi seb128_ 
[12:23] <seb128_> re pitti ;)
[12:23] <sivang> re folks :)
[12:38] <enyc> Erm... are any dapper developers having trouble submitting print jobs to SMB printers? -- "Paused: /usr/lib/cups/backend/smb failed" happens where it did not in breezy... ?
[12:39] <pitti> enyc: this should be the very well known samba bug, infinity is on it
[12:39] <enyc> pitti: excellent... is theere a launhpad bug entry?
[12:39] <pitti> enyc: bug 39484
[12:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39484 in samba "cups smb printing backend no longer works" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39484
[12:40] <enyc> Ubugtu: pitti: thankyou all... I can copy that address teo persons with problem and be confident it will be fixed ;-) thankyou for quick reply ;-)
[12:47] <j^> enyc dapper has (0.0.0.alpha5-0ubuntu2)
[12:48] <enyc> j^: oh hrrm *looks*
[12:49] <enyc> j^: oh yes... oops.. I must have been looking at the replaced version ;-( sorry
[12:50] <j^> would be nice to get theora-mmx in, but that can wait for the next release which will also work on amd64
[12:51] <dholbach> Kinnison: upstream's first guess was that on_show() was not called with the installer patch - I forwarded him your script and will keep on asking him
[12:53] <Kinnison> dholbach: of course it's not called
[12:53] <Kinnison> dholbach: that's on_show for the window
[12:53] <Kinnison> dholbach: and there's no window when it's in a pug
[12:53] <Kinnison> plug even
[12:53] <dholbach> hum
[12:54] <Kinnison> hence when I was trying to fix it, I was concentrating on getting the routines called at the right time. Unfortunately with bunches of the menus etc not being present, calling the extant routines caused segfaults all over the place and I got very lost trying to fix it all up
[12:55] <Mithrandir> uh, did we change to a gnome-foot-splash for gdm?
[12:58] <Mithrandir> fabbione: ok, the 640x480 problem reproduced, http://err.no/tmp/Xorg.0.log is the log
[12:59] <Mithrandir> fabbione: interestingly, casper/dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg detected the resolution correctly.
[01:00] <fabbione> Mithrandir:
[01:00] <fabbione> (II) RADEON(0): Generic Monitor: Using default hsync range of 28.00-33.00 kHz
[01:00] <fabbione> (II) RADEON(0): Generic Monitor: Using default vrefresh range of 43.00-72.00 Hz
[01:00] <fabbione> exactly as i said
[01:00] <dholbach> Mithrandir: gnome foot splash for gdm?
[01:00] <fabbione> either the monitor doesn't return DDC fast enough.. or something blocks the call
[01:00] <ogra> dholbach, the gdm artwork dependencys were changed to suggests
[01:00] <ogra> (dunno why)
[01:00] <fabbione> Mithrandir: can you try to boot a few times without usplash and see if it that solves the issue?
[01:00] <dholbach> ogra: ah yes
[01:01] <Mithrandir> fabbione: see xorg.conf in the same directory; xresprobe gets it right.
[01:01] <Mithrandir> fabbione: so it's just X being silly.
[01:01] <Mithrandir> fabbione: sure, I'll try sans usplash
[01:01] <Mithrandir> dholbach: blue thing, largish.
[01:01] <ogra> gnome default theme ;)
[01:02] <fabbione> Mithrandir: the ddc is probed when X starts.. xresprobe does it far away
[01:02] <ogra> Mithrandir, is any artwork package installed ?
[01:02] <enyc> hrrm that freq. range is only enough for 640x480
[01:02] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i think mdz re-added ubuntu-artwork to the seed
[01:02] <enyc> I use 1216x912 at 99hz using 96kHz h-sync....
[01:02] <Mithrandir> ogra: unsure, I just rebooted.  It's the current live cd.
[01:02] <Kamion> dholbach: I did
[01:02] <ogra> Mithrandir, gdm only suggests the artwork packages now
[01:03] <Kamion> s/suggests/recommends/
[01:03] <ogra> so the seed might be a bit behind
[01:03] <dholbach> Kamion: ah ok, thanks.
[01:03] <ogra> ah, recommends even :)
[01:04] <Kamion> I'm just preparing a -meta upload now
[01:04] <enyc> Dapper -- uses ubuntu-desktop as the basi install package on desktop systems still? or is this now ubuntu-stardard or otherwise?
[01:04] <ogra> -standard installs standard software, -desktop the desktop :)
[01:04] <enyc> kk
[01:04] <enyc> well
[01:05] <Mithrandir> fabbione: fwiw, I couldn't reproduce it on i386.
[01:05] <enyc> ubuntu-desktop installs pcmcia-cs now.. but ...  * Linux >= 2.6.13-rc1 requires pcmciautils instead of pcmcia-cs
[01:07] <enyc> fpi: I just upgraded from breezy to dapper as-is at the moment and I had system crash (was still running 2.6.12-686-smp from breezy at the time) anh pcmcia loaded and crashed the system... I had to boot with   init=/bin/bash  and  chmod -x /etc/init.d/pcmcia  in order te get in and  dpkg --configure -a  to resume setup packages
[01:07] <enyc> fyi not fpi ;-)
[01:08] <enyc> this looks like an upgrade race-condition/crash ;-(
[01:08] <Kamion> enyc: pcmcia-cs is there still because some older cards require CIS firmware that's only in pcmcia-cs at present
[01:08] <enyc> Kamion: kk but sirely if ubuntu-desktop specifies pcmcia-cs it should also get pcmciautils in there?? as thats apparetly needed for the dapper kernel _anyway_
[01:11] <Kamion> enyc: pcmciautils is in ubuntu-minimal
[01:11] <Kamion> and pcmcia-cs is *not* in ubuntu-desktop
[01:11] <enyc> thats interesting... maybe i dont have ubuntu-minimal installed
[01:11] <Kamion> (I just uploaded it, so I'm certain of that)
[01:11] <Kamion> AFAIK it has never been
[01:12] <Kamion> it was installed by the installer if you had PCMCIA hardware
[01:12] <enyc> i see ;-)
[01:12] <enyc> i see ;-) but ubuntu-base installs the -minimal now anyway.. ;-)
[01:13] <enyc> I idint have ubuntu-base installed!!! that doesnt help upgrades... 
[01:17] <Kamion> ubuntu-base dates from hoary; we split it up in early breezy
[01:17] <enyc> heh... to make diffirent base sysytem insatlls for different circumstances more convinient...
[01:17] <enyc> yes...
[01:17] <enyc> Ill leave you to it ;-)
[01:17] <StevenK> -base got split into -miminal and -standard?
[01:22] <Kamion> StevenK: yes
[01:22] <tashiro_work> doko: Hi. Can you please try to execute gaphor and say if it works for you. It seems that it doesn't start http://rafb.net/paste/results/WoHStj82.html
[01:23] <Mithrandir> fabbione: ta, managed to reproduce without splash too.
[01:23] <fabbione> Mithrandir: sorry.. there is no way i can fix that.. really
[01:24] <fabbione> Mithrandir: not without forcing syncs to everybody
[01:24] <fabbione> and people will get upset for other reasons
[01:24] <fabbione> there is no win2win situation here
[01:25] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I'm considering forcefully writing the sync ranges for casper at least, but that'll be problematic with ubiquity installs. :-/
[01:26] <fabbione> Mithrandir: up to you, it will break a lot of other stuff
[01:26] <fabbione> or people will complain that their 200Hz monitor will go only 60/75
[01:26] <fabbione> not that it makes any damn difference
[01:26] <Mithrandir> fabbione: it will break monitor replugging, nothing else.
[01:26] <fabbione> but i am not dealing to listen to them complaining either way
[01:26] <Kamion> pitti: ok, ubiquity .desktop files should be i18ned in my bzr branch now
[01:26] <pitti> yay, great
[01:27] <Kamion> after running gettextize, intltoolize, everyfreakingize
[01:27] <fabbione> Mithrandir: a bunch of bugs are all about our defaults being too conservative.. like running at 60Hz
[01:27] <pitti> Kamion: could you figure out how to automakeify it, or the manual approach?
[01:27] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i don't mind it.. since our eyes can NOT see more than 15pfs anyway
[01:27] <pitti> Kamion: oh, even better :)
[01:27] <Kamion> pitti: did it with automake
[01:27] <Kamion> pitti: the po/Makefile thing you had was because gettextize needed to be run too
[01:27] <fabbione> Mithrandir: people apparently do, because they still believe it makes a difference
[01:27] <Mithrandir> fabbione: modern monitors at 60Hz or even 75Hz are painful to look at, though.
[01:27] <Kamion> and gettextize and intltoolize sort of half-conflict (both install po/Makefile.in.in) so it was very confusing
[01:28] <pitti> Kamion: . o O { do we need a meta-meta-script justdoitize? }
[01:28] <pitti> ah
[01:28] <fabbione> Mithrandir: that's why we don't force the syncs..
[01:29] <Mithrandir> fabbione: uh, writing the sync ranges means you actually listen to what the monitor claims it can do and X then just uses that blindly.  That works quite well, except in the "I plugged in a new monitor" case.
[01:30] <fabbione> Mithrandir: no it's the opposite.. when we get a ddc info back we don't write the range since we can detect it at real time. We write it down with safe defaults when we cannot detect it or in special cases.
[01:30] <Mithrandir> fabbione: except that X for some reason fails to detect it while ddcprobe works, yes.
[01:31] <fabbione> Mithrandir: oh yes.. i see what you mean
[01:31] <fabbione> well for the live cd could be done.. yes
[01:31] <fabbione> i am not sure i want to do that on normal install tho
[01:31] <fabbione> because of the replug
[01:35] <fabbione> Mithrandir: hounestly at this point in time i am not sure there is a sane way to fix this.
[01:35] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I'll poke the ATI driver to see how hard it is, at least.
[01:35] <fabbione> Mithrandir: all this probe crap is just a mess and should be rewritten from scratch
[01:36] <fabbione> Mithrandir: if you want to work on ati, please talk to airlied and benh on #xorg-devel
[01:36] <fabbione> Mithrandir: here on freenode.. they are really friendly guys
[01:36] <Mithrandir> I guess I should.
[01:38] <Riddell> Kamion: did you get my e-mail last week about the cd boot loader kubuntu image?
[01:40] <_ion> Yay. Vim7 is released. \o/
[01:41] <Kinnison> gnerk
[01:54] <Kamion> Riddell: yeah, will look at it now
[01:54] <Riddell> Kamion: I've no idea if the colour palette is right
[01:57] <Kamion> looks plausible
[02:20] <zul> heylo
[02:23] <janimo> Kamion, flight 7 install CD asked  to type in where to put grub (hd0) but it did not on previous CDs. Should I file a bug?
[02:24] <Kamion> janimo: that code hasn't changed; it depends on what other operating systems you have installed though
[02:24] <Kamion> if there's an OS on the disk that it doesn't recognise, it'll ask you
[02:25] <Kamion> on the basis that installing grub might mean you could never boot that OS again, so you'd better check
[02:25] <janimo> Kamion: there was a FAT32 XP, it did not recognize since it was not put in the menu
[02:25] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: ping, I just added a bit on the /MigrationAssistance wiki page regarding issues with importing user settings from "messy" windows installations.
[02:25] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: it's not exactly my page ...
[02:25] <HiddenWolf> Hm, you had the last edit, sorry. :)
[02:41] <pitti> hi shackan 
[02:42] <shackan> hi
[02:44] <Huahua> hello, pitti 
[02:45] <pitti> hey Huahua 
[03:13] <bddebian> Morning peoples
[03:17] <highvolt1ge> morning bddebbiaann
[03:24] <pitti> fabbione: still here?
[03:24] <fabbione> pitti: yes
[03:24] <pitti> fabbione: I have a clean breezy install here and set up my printer
[03:24] <pitti> fabbione: now I'm about to do apt-get install cupsys cupsys-client for dapper
[03:25] <pitti> fabbione: did you do anything else when you noticed the cupsys preinst failure?
[03:25] <fabbione> pitti: note that i had no printers installed
[03:25] <pitti> fabbione: ok, then I'll remove it again
[03:25] <fabbione> pitti: just from console: apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade.
[03:25] <pitti> fabbione: so you used apt-get normally
[03:25] <pitti> ok, so no update-manager of any kind
[03:25] <pitti> thanks
[03:25] <fabbione> nope
[03:25] <fabbione> as i wrote in the bug.. plain apt
[03:26] <pitti> fabbione: any other cups configuration? enabled browsing or so?
[03:26] <fabbione> pitti: nothing.. it was plain install from breezy
[03:26] <pitti> fabbione: alright, thanks
[03:26] <fabbione> i literally installed breezy and upgraded to dapper
[03:26] <fabbione> not even logged in
[03:26] <bddebian> Damn xorg updates :-(
[03:27] <fabbione> bddebian: go rant somewhere else please.
[03:28] <bddebian> Bah
[03:28] <pitti> fabbione: ah, I think I got it, too now
[03:28] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:28] <fabbione> pitti: coolio
[03:28] <pitti> fabbione: but it disappears as soon as I try it again
[03:28] <pitti> brb
[03:29] <fabbione> pitti: yes, it's  a one shot
[03:29] <fabbione> meh
[03:31] <Fjodor> Has anyone verified en_DK workable? My Xlib doesn't like it, and I don't think I've tinkered with it. Dapper install is dist-upgrade from breezy and fully updated
[03:31] <Fjodor> s/en_DK/locale en_DK
[03:34] <fabbione> Fjodor: i use locale en_DK and no, i have no idea why you get these messages.. everything else seems fine
[03:35] <fabbione> if you have a patch good, otherwise please file a bug in malone
[03:35] <fabbione> pkg libx11
[03:35] <Fjodor> Ubugtu: bug 40761
[03:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40761 in libx11 "Most X apps warn about locale not supported" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40761
[03:36] <fabbione> Fjodor: ok.. do you have a patch?
[03:36] <Fjodor> Unfortunately not. I really can't see why it doesn't like it :-(
[03:37] <Fjodor> Guess I just wait for someone to pick it up then. Sorry for bothering
[03:37] <fabbione> Fjodor: neither can i. so there is no known fix atm
[03:38] <Fjodor> Fair enough. Thanks anyway
[03:38] <bddebian> fabbione: Having a bad day are we? :-)
[03:39] <fabbione> bddebian: no. trying to improve the S/N ratio in this channel
[03:39] <mvo> Diziet: could you please have a look at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7969? we have a older version of the patch in our ff, but the author suggested to update it 
[03:39] <Ubugtu> Mozilla bug 7969 in Internationalization "need dictionary based Thai line breaker and intergrate into line/word breaker" [Normal,New]  
[03:39] <Mithrandir> Fjodor: if you run locale-gen en_DK.UTF-8, does that help?
[03:40] <fabbione> Mithrandir: meh dude.. was that simple?
[03:40] <fabbione> locale-gen en_DK.UTF-8
[03:40] <fabbione> Generating locales...
[03:40] <fabbione>   en_DK.UTF-8... up-to-date
[03:40] <fabbione> Generation complete.
[03:40] <janimo> is there a 'reply to comment' in malone like in bugzilla I am not seeing?
[03:40] <fabbione> made the error go awat
[03:40] <fabbione> away
[03:40] <janimo> or just plan add a comment mode?
[03:41] <Riddell> Mithrandir, Kamion: how does update-notifier get added back to autostart on install?
[03:41] <Mithrandir> Riddell: unsure
[03:41] <Riddell> spooky
[03:42] <fabbione> Mithrandir: so what is at fault for not running it on upgrades?
[03:44] <Mithrandir> fabbione: unsure.  And it doesn't fix the problem for me.
[03:44] <fabbione> it does for me tho
[03:44] <fabbione> same en_dk issue
[03:44] <bddebian> Why don't we have any of the libglib-data packages?
[03:44] <bddebian> According to one website installing libglib2.0-data makes the Gdk warning go away for that X locales thing
[03:44] <fabbione> Mithrandir: sudo locale-gen $LANG ?
[03:45] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yes, I did that, and it made some of the messages go away, but not all.
[03:45] <Mithrandir> fabbione: maybe I need to kick the X server or something
[03:45] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i used xterm as test case
[03:46] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > LANG=en_DK.UTF-8 xterm
[03:46] <Mithrandir> Warning: locale not supported by Xlib, locale set to C
[03:46] <Mithrandir> Warning: Cannot convert string "vlines2" to type Pixmap
[03:46] <fabbione> the latter is not locale associated
[03:47] <fabbione> i have a report for it, but i don't understand what causes it exactyl
[03:47] <fabbione> because i can't reproduce it here
[03:47] <fabbione> try to start with a clean env??
[03:48] <fabbione> env -i LANG=en_DK.UTF-8 xterm ?
[03:49] <bddebian> Is the link in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/locale correct?
[03:49] <fabbione> bddebian: yes i fixed in ubunt7
[03:49] <fabbione> ubuntu7
[03:49] <bddebian> It looks weird on my machine
[03:49] <fabbione> and i have the feeling somebody will report it as duplicate
[03:49] <Mithrandir> fabbione: en_DK is missing from /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.dir
[03:49] <fabbione> bddebian: dpkg -l libx11-6
[03:50] <bddebian> Ah, I have ubuntu6 on this one
[03:50] <fabbione> Mithrandir: that's odd..
[03:51] <fabbione> Mithrandir: so why does it work here?
[03:52] <Mithrandir> fabbione: do they exist in your file?
[03:52] <fabbione> Mithrandir: nope
[03:52] <fabbione> ahh hmmm
[03:52] <fabbione> hold on 
[03:53] <fabbione> the error disappeard only on the terminal i used to generate the locales
[03:53] <fabbione> so probably the env needs to be fully reloaded
[03:55] <pitti> fabbione: ah, found it; stupid me...
[03:55] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ok i have the fix.
[03:55] <fabbione> Mithrandir: adding to locale.dir does indeed help everywhere.
[03:56] <fabbione> Mithrandir: and i think there was no need to regenerate with locale-gen at all since it was already up-to-date
[03:58] <desrt> unattended-upgrades... pretty controversial stuff....
[03:59] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yeah, it was just a shot in the dark
[03:59] <pitti> hi desrt 
[03:59] <Fjodor> fabbione: Sorry for not answering, I was fetching a coke. No, locale-gen just says up to date
[03:59] <desrt> good morning :)
[03:59] <desrt> pitti; where have you been hiding these days?
[03:59] <bddebian> Hello desrt
[04:00] <pitti> desrt: behind my TFT, as always :)
[04:00] <desrt> bddebian; dword to your moms
[04:00] <bddebian> uhm
[04:00] <bddebian> :-)
[04:00] <desrt> pitti; hm.  i thought most people usually sat in front of their tfts :)
[04:00] <desrt> pitti; i haven't run into you for very much stuff this release cycle, unfortunately :/
[04:00] <pitti> desrt: I bought a left-handed TFT where the display is on the backside
[04:01] <fabbione> Fjodor: thanks. i am getting the fix uploaded right now. Thanks to Mith.. 
[04:01] <fabbione> Mithrandir: nice work :)
[04:01] <desrt> pitti; that's pretty awesome
[04:01] <pitti> desrt: how are you these days?
[04:01] <desrt> pitti; up and down
[04:02] <desrt> pitti; biggest problem currently is that i failed a mandatory course and the professor is being a dick about it
[04:02] <desrt> pitti; my department nastygrammed him yesterday though, and it looks like things are getting sorted quickly
[04:02] <pitti> desrt: uh, sounds like some time of computer abstinence is required? good luck!
[04:02] <desrt> pitti; heh.  school this term was insane.  i took a couple of overload courses
[04:03] <desrt> 15 courses in 2 terms (7 and 8)
[04:04] <fabbione> Dear Firefox, thanks for dieing on me while closing a bug...
[04:05] <desrt> sounds like time to open a new one :)
[04:05] <_ion> Me hugs SessionSaver
[04:05] <pitti> desrt: hm, I also usually took about 7 courses per semester
[04:05] <pitti> desrt: (but I agree that this meant serious work :) )
[04:07] <desrt> pitti; normal engineering load is 5-6.  normal arts load is 4-5 :)
[04:07] <fabbione> Fjodor: it will take about 3 hours for the packages to hit archive.. but it's there now
[04:07] <desrt> (engineers love little else more than complaining about courseload and bitching about how easy the artsies have it) :)
[04:07] <Fjodor> fabbione: Great! Thank you (and Mithrandir) _so_ much!
[04:09] <fabbione> Fjodor: no problem. 
[04:10] <fabbione> at the end i live in dk.. i can't totally ignore that
[04:10] <Fjodor> Hehe :-) Where in DK btw.?
[04:10] <fabbione> anyway.. 0 libx11 bugs as of now..
[04:10] <fabbione> Fjodor: Brnshj
[04:11] <Fjodor> Too bad it isn't Aarhus. I would have bought you a beer or something :-)
[04:11] <fabbione> Fjodor: i did live in rhus for almost 3 years..
[04:11] <fabbione> Fjodor: i pass by there once in a while
[04:11] <fabbione> don't worry.. i will come and claim my beer :)
[04:11] <bddebian> fabbione: That's awesome.  Too bad the xorg driver bugs could choke a horse :-(   :-)
[04:12] <Fjodor> fabbione: Cool. Just say when
[04:12] <fabbione> Fjodor: will do
[04:12] <fabbione> bddebian: too bad you didn't even notice i fixed/closed/triaged over 200 bugs in the last week 
[04:12] <fabbione> so we are down to 350
[04:12] <fabbione> that's not bad at all
[04:12] <bddebian> fabbione: I notice.  That isn't a slam on you man
[04:12] <fabbione> considering that warty had 120
[04:13] <fabbione> hoary around 250
[04:13] <fabbione> and that our user base from hoary is 10 times bigger???
[04:13] <fabbione> go nuts... we did great
[04:14] <HiddenWolf> fabbione: are you the resident X guru now?
[04:14] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: only up to release
[04:14] <StevenK> Heh.
[04:14] <StevenK> Then someone takes over?
[04:14] <bddebian> fabbione: I think it's awesome, I wish I could be more help.  You and infinity are to be commended.
[04:14] <desrt> when you say down to 350 bugs is that like... the entire distro?
[04:14] <bddebian> desrt: hahaha :-)
[04:14] <fabbione> i hate X, i don't want X, X should die.. all back to console+fb
[04:15] <desrt> ok.  just checking :)
[04:15] <Mithrandir> desrt: the entire distro is around 10k open bugs. :-(
[04:15] <HiddenWolf> desrt: 10270+ bugs 
[04:15] <fabbione> desrt: tsk :P
[04:16] <desrt> you guys need to go to IBM or something
[04:16] <desrt> borrow 10000 of their employees for a day
[04:16] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:16] <desrt> and say to each of them "fix one bug"
[04:16] <fabbione> desrt: that won't help..
[04:17] <crimsun> desrt: classic mythical man-month problem.
[04:17] <bddebian> hehe
[04:17] <bddebian> You mean 9 women can't have a baby in 1 month?? ;-P
[04:17] <StevenK> Haha
[04:17] <desrt> (the one guy called in sick)
[04:17] <fabbione> desrt: die dude!
[04:18] <StevenK> bddebian: You get 9 women pregant with the *same* baby, and then we'll see. :-P
[04:18] <bddebian> A gene multiplexer?
[04:18] <fabbione> poor baby
[04:18] <desrt> StevenK; take this to #biology-devel, plz
[04:18] <bddebian> yells even
[04:18] <fabbione> i am taking off
[04:18] <mjg59> Does launchpad have any way to limit displayed bugs to main?
[04:18] <fabbione> time to do some real life stuff
[04:19] <HiddenWolf> fabbione: life, what is that?
[04:19] <HiddenWolf> ;)
[04:19] <mjg59> Oh, yes
[04:19] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: when you a wife with a knife on your neck ready for use
[04:19] <desrt> fabbione; life is waiting for you.
[04:19] <StevenK> mjg59: Bah, I was about to answer.
[04:19] <desrt> fabbione; death too, it seems...
[04:19] <Fjodor> Oh no! He's about to enter the fabled "room without a roof"! It's said to be rather bright in there
[04:19] <mjg59> There's only 6821 bugs in main
[04:19] <HiddenWolf> "only"
[04:20] <desrt> Fjodor; it's a pretty big room, actually
[04:20] <desrt> Fjodor; it's a freakin' mess though... dirt and water all over the place
[04:20] <Fjodor> Yeah. "outside the asylum" alright
[04:31] <bddebian> Kamion: ping?
[04:33] <Fjodor> Hmm, guess my last statement was a misquote, now that I remember where it was from. Guess I'll shut up and look forward to the new libx11 :-)
[04:39] <crimsun> pitti: rock! (RE: alsa-utils, g-c-c, and g-v-m)
[04:40] <pitti> crimsun: and to you for finding a way out of this mess!
[04:40] <crimsun> pitti: anytime
[04:47] <pitti> ivoks: I applied your patches, testing now; looks good so far, thank you!
[04:48] <ivoks> pitti: for... g-c-m?
[04:48] <pitti> ivoks: I did cups so far; g-c-m is built and waiting to be tested :)
[04:48] <ivoks> pitti: you are welcome
[04:48] <pitti> ivoks: hm, adding 'Allow @LOCAL' shouldn't hurt too much, I guess
[04:48] <ivoks> it wouldn't for a default install
[04:49] <pitti> people who change the Listen directive will probably want that anyway, and it doesn't change anything by default
[04:49] <ivoks> that's right
[04:49] <pitti> ivoks: also, it's a FAQ which would be solved
[04:50] <ivoks> pitti: that would go in dapper?
[04:50] <pitti> ivoks: the cups changes in any case, I guess -- it's just adding two files
[04:51] <pitti> ivoks: I'll ask mdz about g-c-m
[04:51] <ivoks> and .glade
[04:51] <ivoks> ah, ok :)
[04:51] <ivoks> pitti: it needs testing first
[04:51] <ivoks> i'm not sure g-c-m was solved as good as it can :/
[04:51] <pitti> mdz: would you be opposed to adding ivoks' patch to gnome-cups-manager which provides a GUI (menu entry checkbox) for calling a cups script to enable/disable printer sharing?
[04:52] <pitti> ivoks: yes, I'm preparing the cups side first
[04:52] <ivoks> ok
[04:52] <seb128> carlos, mdke: who is moderator for the ubuntu-translators list?
[04:53] <pitti> ivoks: do you have anything particular in your mind? (g-c-m patch flaws)
[04:55] <ivoks> pitti: yes, if you enable sharing in g-c-m, and then disable browsing (in same run)
[04:55] <Diziet> mvo: thai patch> I'll look into it.  It was quite a big patch and I'll have to think about whether now is a good time to be changing it lots.
[04:55] <ivoks> pitti: sharing will stay enabled (marked), but will not work
[04:55] <ivoks> pitti: on restart of g-c-m, everything would be fine
[04:56] <pitti> ivoks: right
[04:56] <ivoks> pitti: this is due something in .glade, if i'm not mistaken
[04:56] <ivoks> i'm not so good programer :/
[04:56] <pitti> ivoks: don't worry, I know next to nothign about GTK either
[04:56] <ivoks> i was hoping you will take a look at that (or someone else)
[04:56] <ivoks> :D
[04:57] <carlos> seb128: jordi and I
[04:57] <pitti> ivoks: I'll try to hug mvo or seb128 often enough so that he can give me some hints :)
[04:57] <pitti> ivoks: I just won't have much time to care for it :/
[04:57] <ivoks> pitti: if you need help, bug me and I'll hug them too :)
[04:58] <mvo> Diziet: agreed, if you feel uncomfortable about it, its fine to not include it I think
[04:58] <pitti> ivoks: there must be a function to disable the browsing menu entry if sharing is enabled?
[04:58] <seb128> carlos: could you accept my mail about strings changes from the previous week and today?
[04:58] <pitti> ivoks: i. e. enabling sharing should enable browsing and grey it out
[04:58] <ivoks> pitti: the thing is that disabeled browsing doesn't mean that sharing is disabled
[04:58] <pitti> ivoks: no, let me explain again
[04:58] <Diziet> mvo: I'll take a look at the actual code I think.
[04:58] <mvo> ivoks, pitti: do we have a bugnumber for that g-c-m problem?
[04:59] <mvo> Diziet: thanks!
[04:59] <ivoks> mvo: not yet
[04:59] <seb128> carlos: "mails", they are like 5-6 now
[04:59] <pitti> ivoks: if I enable sharing, then the browsing checkbox should be enabled as well and made inactive, so that the user can't disable it
[04:59] <ivoks> pitti: right, that would be great
[04:59] <Diziet> mvo: Do you happen to know which version of the patch was the one that was included ?
[04:59] <ivoks> pitti: but...
[04:59] <Diziet> The changelog doesn't say and knowing that would save me quite a bit of faff.
[04:59] <pitti> mvo: it's more a missing feature; just a checkbox around two scripts in cupsys
[04:59] <ivoks> pitti: you can disable browsing and still be able to share (darn cups)
[04:59] <mvo> Diziet: checking, give me a sec
[04:59] <pitti> ivoks: oh, how so?
[05:00] <pitti> ivoks: that would be the most ideal solution in the first place
[05:00] <mvo> pitti: let me know if you need help, that sounds managable
[05:00] <pitti> ivoks: but after I disabled browsing locally, my laptop didn't get any ipp notifications any more
[05:00] <ivoks> pitti: that's true
[05:00] <ivoks> pitti: but go to http://disabled_server_IP:631
[05:00] <pitti> mvo: we have a patch already (similar to the 'enable browsing' patch), it just needs some minor tweaks; thanks!
[05:00] <mvo> Diziet: we have https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=218666&action=view (I did the upload)
[05:00] <ivoks> pitti: and you will be able to access printers
[05:00] <ivoks> pitti: browsing is browsing, and only that
[05:00] <ivoks> pitti: sharing is something else
[05:01] <pitti> ivoks: aaah, right
[05:01] <ivoks> pitti: best option is sharing+browsing
[05:01] <pitti> ivoks: indeed, I mixed that up
[05:01] <pitti> ivoks: so why does your enable_sharing script enable browsing then?
[05:01] <ivoks> pitti: anyway, I would be happy if sharing would enable browsing
[05:01] <carlos> seb128: sure
[05:01] <seb128> carlos: thank you ;)
[05:01] <janimo> dholbach: ping
[05:01] <ivoks> pitti: I tought that would be best option
[05:02] <ivoks> pitti: since most of the users want browsing with sharing
[05:02] <pitti> ivoks: I see my confusion now, I mixed up access privilege with the server advertising its printers
[05:02] <pitti> ivoks: that shouldn't be hardcoded in the scripts then, just in the UI IMHO
[05:02] <ivoks> fine with me
[05:03] <mvo> ivoks, pitti: I'm happy to help once I know what to do, just let me know whats needed and I'll hack on it
[05:03] <ivoks> mvo: sure
[05:03] <ivoks> mvo: thank you
[05:03] <pitti> mvo: alright, thanks a million
[05:04] <ivoks> pitti: so, we should go with independent sharing and browsing or should sharing enable browsing?
[05:04] <pitti> ivoks: my feeling is that the scripts should be orthogonal in cups
[05:04] <jordi> woa, I think I've been neglecting ubuntu-translators quite a lot
[05:04] <ivoks> pitti: i op for sharing enables browsing (that's what most of the users want)
[05:04] <pitti> ivoks: and the UI should care for that
[05:04] <ivoks> pitti: I agree
[05:04] <ivoks> pitti: then cups need new scripts
[05:05] <ivoks> needs
[05:05] <pitti> ivoks: yes, easy enough to fix them (I just spotted some typos anyway)
[05:05] <ivoks> oh :/
[05:05] <ivoks> i wrote those scripts at 1AM :)
[05:07] <mdke> seb128: looks like carlos/jordi
[05:08] <jordi> mdke: ?
[05:09] <carlos> jordi: just that we should pay more attention to ubuntu-translators
[05:09] <seb128> jordi: I send "I've changed that strings" mails for 10 days but nobody cares to moderate ubuntu-translators so they never reach the list
[05:09] <mdke> jordi/carlos: if you need a hand, I'm happy to do some moderating duties
[05:10] <carlos> mdke: that would be really good, the main problem is the amount of spam we have there to discard
[05:10] <mdke> yeah, I know from other lists ;)
[05:11] <elmo> seb128: I just installed flight 7, did an update and now gdm is prompting me for which display manager should be the default
[05:12] <elmo> and the choice is gdm... or gdm.
[05:12] <seb128> elmo: weird, we got 1 other bug about that but I don't get the issue on my box and I'm not sure on how to debug it ... do you have any idea :)
[05:13] <elmo> seb128: it isn't reproduceable after purging + reinstalling gdm?
[05:13] <seb128> elmo: I'll give a try later
[05:13] <elmo> I mean, this laptop isn't in use yet,so I could reinstall it, and run stuff you tell me to, if that'd be helpful
[05:14] <seb128> (I don't try now because stopping gdm closes will close the running session :p)
[05:14] <jordi> mdke: hmm, I think we can accept that offer
[05:14] <mdke> jordi: ok
[05:14] <jordi> I mean, I can do it. I do it for two other ubuntu lists, but every few days.
[05:14] <seb128> elmo: I'll give a try on my laptop with flight7 and update and with purge reinstall and let you know if it doesn't happen for me
[05:14] <seb128> elmo: thank you :)
[05:15] <jordi> but, ubuntu-translators I sometimes get backlogged on
[05:17] <jdub> jordi: i will help you
[05:21] <pitti> ivoks: hm, the new g-c-m does not have any 'global settings' menu at all any more
[05:22] <jordi> mdke: hmm, just got pointed at listadmin :)
[05:23] <jordi> thanks jdub 
[05:23] <pitti> ivoks: ah, I know; the current patch disables the entire menu if either _status script says 2
[05:25] <ivoks> huh?
[05:25] <ivoks> pitti: i didn't update wor a week
[05:27] <mdke> jordi: I dont mind, if you need the help, Im here. I read that list anyway.
[05:27] <jordi> ok
[05:29] <carlos> seb128: done
[05:29] <carlos> mdke: I just added your address to the admin list for that list
[05:29] <seb128> carlos: thank you
[05:31] <Diziet> mvo: Thanks, noted.
[05:38] <Riddell> carlos: I've fixed the ones that can be, the rest are obsolete or from programmes that havn't been released yet so can be ignored https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MissingPotFiles
[05:39] <carlos> Riddell: ok, thank you!
[05:41] <Riddell> carlos: timezones and ppdtranslations in kdelibs are actally made by kdebase, will that be a problem?
[05:44] <carlos> Riddell: I will need to import them manually, but that's ok. How is that those are stored in the wrong place?
[05:46] <Mithrandir> Riddell: any chance you could take a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/43276 wrt the kde device db?
[05:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43276 in xorg "Please include Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW 24-inch Wide Aspect Flat Panel LCD Monitor in hardware database" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
[05:46] <Riddell> carlos: they're generated by kdebase and put into kdelibs, I've no idea why
[05:46] <carlos> ok
[05:47] <BenM> seb128, <3
[05:47] <seb128> hey BenM, noticed the upload? :)
[05:47] <BenM> no, but i got bugmail :-)
[05:48] <seb128> ah, right
[05:48] <Riddell> Mithrandir: reassigned
[05:48] <Mithrandir> Riddell: thanks.
[05:48] <mdke> carlos: ok, thanks
[05:49] <BenM> seb128, another win i just noticed
[05:49] <BenM> gnome-cups-icon stays around
[05:49] <BenM> forever
[05:49] <BenM> once you pritn something
[05:49] <BenM> ~1mb cost
[05:49] <Kamion> bddebian: yes?
[05:49] <Keybuk> seb128: xchat core dumps if you have xchat-systray installed :)
[05:50] <seb128> Keybuk: don't install xchat-systray then ;)
[05:50] <Kamion> Riddell: the installer's never touched update-notifier/autostart
[05:50] <seb128> BenM: any patch around for that? :)
[05:50] <Keybuk> seb128: *sulk*
[05:50] <BenM> not yet :-)
[05:50] <BenM> maybe after exams
[05:50] <BenM> seb128, should i open a new bug for gnome-applets re: trash-applet
[05:50] <Riddell> Kamion: does the installer copy the squishfs or the filesystem as it is on the running live CD?
[05:51] <Mithrandir> Riddell: the squashfs.
[05:51] <seb128> BenM: feel free yep
[05:51] <Kamion> what he said
[05:51] <Riddell> Mithrandir: ah, so that's how the notifier link gets copied
[05:51] <Mithrandir> Riddell: oh, yeah, probably
[05:52] <Keybuk> Kamion: is that retchmail sync yours?
[05:52] <Riddell> Mithrandir: can you add  "rm /usr/share/autostart/adept_notifier_auto.desktop" to the Disabling update-notifier script then?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> Riddell: can you mail that to me or file a bug?
[05:53] <freeflying> Mithrandir:  bug 43806
[05:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43806 in casper "kubuntu livecd's update_notifier need been disable" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43806
[05:53] <Mithrandir> freeflying: oh, that one.  Yeah, I meant to bug Riddell about that anyway.
[05:54] <glatzor> Hi Riddell. I and mvo talked about the update notification a minute ago, too.
[05:54] <Riddell> thanks freeflying :)
[05:54] <glatzor> It would be nice if adpet and update-notifier could share the same config file.
[05:54] <bddebian> Kamion: Sorry, is libkwiki-perl still hung up in NEW?
[05:54] <Riddell> glatzor: apt configuration?
[05:55] <freeflying> Riddell:  :)
[05:55] <glatzor> Riddell: yes. currently u-m uses 10periodic and adpet 15adpet-periodic-update
[05:55] <glatzor> I would like to see if the config file 10peridoic would be shipped with apt itself
[05:56] <glatzor> Riddell: since the apt package also contains the cron job
[05:56] <Riddell> enabled by default?
[05:56] <mvo> we can't ship it with apt and enabled by default (because apt sets no policy on these things)
[05:56] <BenM> seb128, this is even better, g-cups-icon seems to leak
[05:57] <BenM> last night, it was around 1.5 mb or writable
[05:57] <BenM> now around 4.7
[05:57] <mvo> but I would like to have the same config file for both u-n and adept
[05:57] <glatzor> Riddell: The kubuntu and ubuntu desktop metapackages could depend on a config package that would enable apt cache updates if the configurations was not changed by the user yet
[05:57] <glatzor> Riddell: no. disabled by default.
[05:57] <Riddell> sounds like we'd have to play around with postinst scripts
[05:59] <glatzor> furthermore i would like to see a common option if the user should be notified of available updates
[05:59] <glatzor> Riddell: mvo: perhaps "APT::Periodic::NotifyUser"
[06:00] <mvo> glatzor: well, the cron thing only part of the problem. if a user runs apt-get update by hand (or if he has no gui runing at this point) we want to show the notification as well
[06:00] <pitti> Kamion, Keybuk: can you please NEW mozilla-firefox-locale-all? (new deb mozilla-firefox-locale-ka-ge, please put it straight into main)
[06:00] <Keybuk> sure
[06:00] <pitti> Keybuk: great! I'll add the language-support-ka dependency then
[06:00] <Keybuk> I was just looking at the immense NEW queue ;)
[06:01] <pitti> oh, is it so bad?
[06:01] <Keybuk> little larger than usual today
[06:01] <Keybuk> some soname changes happened I think
[06:01] <Kamion> Keybuk: no, I don't think so, and infinity says it isn't his either
[06:02] <Kamion> bddebian: no
[06:02] <glatzor> mvo: ok let's use "APT::UpdateNotification::NotifyAdminUsers" :)
[06:03] <Kamion> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/191492
[06:03] <glatzor> mvo: Riddell: or "APT::NotifyUserOf Updates"
[06:04] <mvo> glatzor: what would this option do?
[06:04] <glatzor> I don't know much about the internal name space of apt config options
[06:04] <Keybuk> pitti: all for main, right?  (m-f-l-a)
[06:04] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, please
[06:04] <pitti> Keybuk: they will be pulled in by language-support-*
[06:05] <glatzor> mvo: Riddell: it would be used by update-notifier and adpet. if it is enabled the notification would be shown in the notifcation area.
[06:05] <pitti> Keybuk: apart from -ka-ge, is there another one?
[06:05] <Keybuk> pitti: dunno, the queue tool helpfully tells us all the binaries, not just the new ones :)
[06:05] <pitti> lol
[06:05] <Keybuk> I could grovel in the overrides to compare and find out which were new, etc.
[06:05] <Keybuk> far easier just to check the destinations with you though
[06:05] <pitti> Keybuk: don't worry, I'm reasonably sure it's just -ka-ge
[06:06] <glatzor> mvo: but it could be too much noise, too.
[06:06] <pitti> Keybuk: I already saw the other ones in anastacia yesterday
[06:10] <tepsipakki> does anyone know of how to securely automate the signing of a repository (Release.gpg). http://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt doesn't have that info yet
[06:10] <tepsipakki> -of
[06:15] <glatzor> mvo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/43017
[06:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43017 in update-manager "Automatic Updates Don't Work on Xubuntu" [Major,Fix committed]  
[06:15] <glatzor> Fixed this in my local repo
[06:17] <jsgotangco> ciao good night
[06:18] <tepsipakki> _ion: was that a reply to my question?-)
[06:19] <_ion> tepsipakki: Kind of.
[06:20] <tepsipakki> where can I find this falcon?
[06:20] <BenM> seb128, i want to recommend that evolution-exchange be removed from the default gnome-desktop. when exchange is installed, it launches an extra daemon every time you use evo, using an extra mb
[06:20] <BenM> where would i file this
[06:20] <BenM> gnome-desktop, or in evo
[06:20] <_ion> tepsipakki: http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/Software/falcon/
[06:21] <tepsipakki> ion: thanks, google wasn't that helpful ;)
[06:21] <seb128> BenM: default gnome desktop or default Ubuntu installation? That will probably be rejected because we have one CD that should work out of the box for everybody
[06:21] <seb128> BenM: ubuntu-desktop is probably the right place
[06:21] <BenM> default install
[06:21] <BenM> well, i'd figure exchange is something that would be deployed by a sysadmin
[06:21] <BenM> in a customized exchange
[06:21] <BenM> err
[06:22] <BenM> customized install
[06:22] <seb128> evolution should probably not start that daemon if there is no exchange account configured
[06:22] <BenM> agreed
[06:23] <BenM> but, it's evolution :-)
[06:23] <BenM> on the evo wackyness scale
[06:23] <BenM> that's actually somewhat low
[06:23] <seb128> right
[06:25] <Keybuk> BenM: hardly an extra MB
[06:25] <Mithrandir> a gig here, a gig there.  Memory's cheap.
[06:25] <BenM> its 1 mb of writable private memory
[06:26] <Kamion> ! speaking of memory allocation
[06:26] <Keybuk> 00002aaab3700000    132K rw---    [ anon ] 
[06:26] <Kamion> the guy talking about ubiquity memory usage isn't kidding about localedef being memory-hungry
[06:26] <Kamion> it takes up 50MB+ to generate a UTF-8 locale
[06:26] <Kinnison> Kamion: cripes
[06:26] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, I've encountered that before
[06:27] <BenM> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-desktop/+bug/43830
[06:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43830 in gnome-desktop "Remove evolution-exchange from ubuntu-desktop" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[06:27] <Kamion> http://lists.debian.org/debian-glibc/2003/03/msg00314.html # yay goto
[06:27] <BenM> how's that for rationale?
[06:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: uh, nice.
[06:28] <Mithrandir> (or not)
[06:29] <Kamion> it got reopened 'cos drow is sensible
[06:32] <enyc> Hrrrm... in dapper currently... GTK libs do not find modules sometimes -- e.g. running 'drip' results in "(drip:6848): Gtk-WARNING **: Failed to load module "libatk-bridge.so": libatk-bridge.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" when /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/modules/libatk-bridge.so is there....
[06:33] <enyc> as if looking in wrong place or something ;-(
[06:34] <enyc> (noting that 'drip' is dynamic-linked to loooads of files!)
[06:35] <elmo> ~.
[06:36] <elmo> argh, god damn, cisco must die.  they took a perfectly supported wireless cardbus card and silently switched it to an atheros chipset without changing the major model number
[06:36] <thom> elmo: yummy
[06:37] <thom> elmo: when i saw cisco must die i was expecting rather more major explosions
[06:37] <Mithrandir> elmo: they didn't leave the pci id unchanged too, for extra joy&profit?
[06:37] <elmo> Mithrandir: nah, PCI ID correctly identifies it as atheros
[06:38] <elmo> thom: well for major explosions like killing the DC usually also involve me being offline, so they're not so visible :/
[06:38] <Keybuk> elmo: did they change the version?
[06:38] <elmo> anyway, atheros is still madwifi or ndis, right?
[06:39] <Keybuk> elmo: yes, always will be
[06:39] <Keybuk> madwifi tends to "work"
[06:39] <Keybuk> could be worse ... I know of a certain card manufacturer that likes to keep the PCI ID the same, even after they change the chipset
[06:39] <elmo> hmm, why always?
[06:39] <Lathiat> elmo: thats been quite popular with lots of manufacturers
[06:39] <Lathiat> on the netgear stuff you get a nie little "v2" sidemarked somewehre
[06:39] <Lathiat> Keybuk: haha, nice
[06:40] <Keybuk> elmo: nobody seems to be moving in any particular direction towards a proper open driver for it
[06:40] <elmo> ah ok, but it'd be technically possible right?  I mean, no one thought bcm43xx was likely a year ago
[06:41] <Keybuk> yup
[06:41] <Keybuk> probably some kind of softmac implementation would do the trick
[06:41] <Keybuk> the bcm stuff only happened because linksys wrote their own drivers for it, and someone was able to reverse engineer them
[06:41] <Keybuk> nobody's done that for atheros sadly
[07:00] <Riddell> Keybuk: do you expect edgy to use initng?
[07:00] <Keybuk> no.
[07:00] <Riddell> someone has applied to SoC to write a config tool for it, so not much use unless edgy uses initng
[07:00] <Riddell> thanks
[07:00] <Keybuk> indeed
[07:01] <Keybuk> I already looked at that :)
[07:01] <Keybuk> initng has struck me repeatedly as one of the most pointless sysvinit replacements
[07:01] <Keybuk> so even if we went with something !sysvinit, I doubt it would be initng
[07:09] <Burgwork> BenM, you are a god, btw
[07:10] <_ion> Ask Apple nicely to release their implementation under a free license. ;-)
[07:10] <_ion> I heard it pretty much rules, albeit it uses XML config files.
[07:10] <_ion> (It does the work of init, inetd, crond, atd etc.)
[07:11] <_ion> It apparently launches stuff like cupsd on demand, instead of system startup.
[07:13] <mdz> Kamion: what went horribly wrong with my seed commit?
[07:15] <Riddell> carlos: what's the status of the .pot file for guidance?
[07:15] <carlos> Riddell: ubuntu or upstream?
[07:15] <Riddell> carlos: in ubuntu
[07:15] <Riddell> it's not in rosetta (I'm told)
[07:16] <carlos> Riddell: it is
[07:16] <carlos> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/kde-guidance/+pots/guidance
[07:16] <carlos> Riddell: it's there since 2006-04-04
[07:19] <carlos> Riddell: please ask to the guy that told you that is not there to file a bug describing how was he trying to get it, it sounds like an UI bug
[07:19] <carlos> see you later
[07:32] <Kamion> mdz: no idea, it simply wasn't there
[07:32] <Kamion> no record of it at all; looked as if it hadn't been pushed
[07:33] <BenM> Burgwork, thanks :-)
[07:33] <BenM> i try
[07:47] <bddebian> Kamion: Thx.  Do I need to try libspoon-perl or have you already brought it over/in?
[07:49] <mdz> Kamion: it's still at sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/seeds.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/seeds/dapper, right?
[07:51] <elmo> could someone demote the following packages: libgnutls11, libtasn1-2-bin, ifrename, libdb4.4 and libssl0.9.7?
[07:52] <elmo> they're > optional but not installed by default, so dselect tries to install them on fresh installs for no good reason
[07:52] <elmo> (tho libtasn1-2-bin is in universe but a recommendation of something (from the same source) in main - maybe it should be promoted at the same time)
[07:54] <bddebian> No way :-)
[08:14] <Kamion> bddebian: I haven't done anything to it
[08:14] <Kamion> mdz: yep
[08:15] <Kamion> elmo: those packages all appear to be in universe already
[08:15] <dholbach> janimo: pong
[08:15] <janimo> dholbach: hey
[08:16] <janimo> wanted to ask if you're too busy to handle goffice/gnumeric
[08:16] <janimo> I can take care of tjose if so
[08:16] <Kamion> elmo: though hmm, I suppose everything that's not in main should be <= optional; I should teach jessica to check that
[08:16] <dholbach> janimo: what was the final decision with those now?
[08:16] <elmo> Kamion: sorry yeah, by demote, I meant demote to optional
[08:16] <janimo> dholbach: Gauvain, updated the patches to be less hacky
[08:16] <janimo> dholbach: per mdz's proposal
[08:17] <dholbach> got the bug numbers?
[08:17] <janimo> dholbach: goffice provides goffice|goffice-gtk in the shlibs
[08:17] <janimo> dholbach: hmm don;t know offhand but can look
[08:17] <dholbach> ok
[08:17] <janimo> dholbach: I think it's against goffice 
[08:17] <Kamion> ah, good, 'jessica -c universe' spots it
[08:17] <Kamion> elmo: will do once this publisher run finishes
[08:18] <dholbach> janimo: bug 42610 and bug 40122
[08:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42610 in gnumeric "Patch: gnome/gtk build" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42610
[08:18] <janimo> dholbach: same, bug #40122
[08:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40122 in goffice "Patch: build 2 libgoffice variants (gnome and gtk)" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40122
[08:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40122 in goffice "Patch: build 2 libgoffice variants (gnome and gtk)" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40122
[08:18] <janimo> yup
[08:18] <janimo> dholbach: used some epi shortcuts ;) ?
[08:18] <dholbach> sure :)
[08:20] <elmo> Kamion: thanks
[08:21] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[08:47] <janimo> dholbach: so are you uploading goffice patch then?
[08:47] <janimo> seen fix commited on the bug
[08:47] <dholbach> janimo: oh, I thought you'd do that
[08:48] <janimo> dholbach: I taught so too, just seen that you marked it as fix commited confued me
[08:48] <elmo> sladen: did you ever have any luck with this damn numlock problem on thinkpads?
[08:48] <janimo> I am trying it out right now
[08:48] <dholbach> fix committed = will be uploaded :)
[08:48] <janimo> dholbach: ok :)
[08:48] <janimo> I taught it was usually (have it in a local branch or soemthing). vs in progress
[08:49] <janimo> but ok anyway :)
[09:11] <dAndy> can someone take a look at bug #31071 it should be a very easy fix, (it is actually a regression from breezy) and the bug is at least 3 months old
[09:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31071 in autofs "Unable to use NIS maps" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31071
[09:18] <bddebian> Crap, too many packages to bring in for libspoon-perl
[09:20] <Keybuk> dAndy: bug is against the wrong package
[09:20] <Keybuk>   * Make autofs start at level 19 instead of level 20 during boot, to make
[09:20] <Keybuk>     sure if comes before other dmons that might rely on it. (Closes: #252114)
[09:21] <dAndy> so nis should be moved to 18?
[09:21] <Keybuk> yup
[09:22] <bddebian> Crap, I'm going to have to file UVF exceptions for all the libspoon-perl build deps?? :-(
[09:23] <bddebian> dAndy: Change the source package and add a comment please  (Quoting the above would be good too imo)
[09:23] <dAndy> bddebian: will do thanks
[09:23] <bddebian> No, THANK YOU :-)
[09:23] <Keybuk> *shrug* no particular point :)
[09:24] <dAndy> yay!!! 
[09:24] <bddebian> heh
[09:24] <Keybuk> anything to avoid looking at the NEW queue <g>
[09:24] <bddebian> hehe
[09:26] <Keybuk> if the packages are in main, and they're that trivial to fix, go for it
[09:26] <Keybuk> nothing wrong with getting that big number down a bit
[09:26] <bddebian> I made a patch for xterm, let me find the bug #
[09:27] <bddebian> Bug #38453
[09:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38453 in xterm "[Patch]  Changed man pages but not alternatives" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38453
[09:33] <bddebian> Keybuk: Does that look OK?
[09:34] <Keybuk> yup that kind of thing
[09:36] <bddebian> Keybuk: Are you on ubuntu-archive team?
[09:36] <Keybuk> yes
[09:38] <bddebian> Keybuk: WOuld you mind looking over sear?  Bug #6527
[09:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6527 in sear "sear: merge new debian version" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6527
[09:38] <Keybuk> bddebian: for that stuff, I'll get to it in turn, along with the others
[09:39] <bddebian> Oh, OK, sorry
[09:44] <zul> Keybuk: probably
[09:44] <Keybuk> Intel still have the coolest
[09:50] <elmo> is the fact that the language takes ages to come up, a known ubiquity thing?
[09:51] <Kamion> the screen with the language selector on it?
[09:51] <tseng> it takes a few seconds for me
[09:51] <Kamion> no - it takes a while to get *off* that screen because it has to run locale-gen, but it's usually reasonably quick to appear
[09:52] <Kamion> try with UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1 and see what it's doing
[09:52] <Kamion> (tail -f /var/log/installer/syslog in another window)
[09:52] <elmo> Kamion: it took a noticeable enough amount of time that I thought it was broken, once on the oldish quebicistani laptop but more damagingly once with a brand spanking new X41
[09:53] <Keybuk> right
[09:53] <Keybuk> I just love soname changes
[09:53] <Keybuk> doko: consider that a 1-hour pre-emptive ping <g>
[09:54] <bddebian> Isn't TB meeting in like 4 mins?
[09:54] <bddebian> Oh, nm
[09:54] <ogra> Kamion, Mithrandir, is there a way to prevent the liveCD to use an existing swap partition ? 
[09:56] <Keybuk> yes
[10:02] <mdz> infinity: right, so we could presumably safely unlink nvidia.ko but not nvidia_legacy.ko (unless we checked the bus as I proposed earlier)
[10:03] <Fjodor> fabbione, Mithrandir: Probably not a surprise, but I just wanted to confirm that your work solved my problem, and that it was indeed that, which prevented me from entering Danish chars in emacs. Thanks again!
[10:03] <fabbione> Fjodor: no problem.
[10:03] <Keybuk> sabdfl: ping, TB time
[10:05] <Kamion> mdz: I've asked joeyh for thoughts on the other bit of the casper/templates.dat problem, since I think I need to add more interface in order to solve it
[10:05] <mdz> Kamion: eek
[10:05] <Kamion> like a flag to dpkg-reconfigure, nothing huge
[10:06] <Kamion> either that or some filthy workaround in casper
[10:06] <elmo> Kamion: will that var make it past gtksu?
[10:06] <Kamion> elmo: I think so, although I generally use 'UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1 sudo ubiquity' when I'm debugging
[10:07] <Kamion> failing that, 'gksudo env UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1 ubiquity'
[10:07] <elmo> I'm surprised it does, 'cos sudo seems to even kill $DISPLAY atm
[10:08] <Kamion> if you have unrestricted sudo then it should let everything past
[10:08] <infinity> mdz: -ECHAN?
[10:08] <Kamion> I think that was the compromise solution we reached
[10:08] <Kamion> and the live CD user has unrestricted sudo
[10:10] <elmo> bah, now I can't reproduce it
[10:10] <elmo> (even after a reboot)
[10:11] <omeg> !@#$@# stupid fonts
[10:26] <kmon> hi
[10:26] <kmon> i continuosly get this error in /var/log/syslog: bcm43xx: FATAL ERROR: BCM43xx_IRQ_XMIT_ERROR
[10:27] <kmon> it's probably known, but it's annoying when using the console because it get's on top of the text (example typing in nano)
[10:27] <bddebian> kmon: There are several bugs posted on Malone about the bcm43xx driver :-(
[10:28] <kmon> yes I know
[10:28] <kmon> I imagine it's because it's not mature enough
[10:28] <kmon> (could be wrong)
[10:28] <kmon> but I wanted to know if this is known... if it has a fixed... it's status basically
[10:29] <kmon> s/fixed/fix
[10:30] <bddebian> kmon: Ah, that I don't know, sorry
[10:32] <elmo> does LRM support hotplugged devices?
[10:32] <Keybuk> no reason why not?
[10:32] <Keybuk> all devices are "hotplugged" now, remember
[10:33] <elmo> hmm, it doesn't seem to like this stupid atheros cardbus cisco
[10:33] <Keybuk> on dapper?
[10:33] <elmo> yah, flight-7
[10:33] <Keybuk> paste me the lspci line for that card
[10:34] <mjg59> elmo: Mark was seeing that as well
[10:34] <mjg59> Do you have a pile of unresolved symbols in dmesg?
[10:34] <elmo> uh, ok, so it's not actually appearing in lspci on this machine
[10:34] <elmo> I swear it did on the X41
[10:35] <mjg59> What machine?
[10:35] <elmo> The Quebicistani Compaq
[10:35] <Keybuk> cat /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/*/modalias ?
[10:35] <elmo> Presario V2000, it's a turion, but I'm using an i386 live/install
[10:35] <mjg59> elmo: What cardbus bridge?
[10:35] <elmo> TI PCIxx21/x515
[10:36] <mjg59> Hm. Ok.
[10:36] <elmo> Keybuk: ENOENT
[10:36] <mjg59> Do you have any other cards you can check?
[10:36] <Keybuk> elmo: anything in /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices ?
[10:36] <elmo> yeah, the non-atheros aironet, one sec
[10:36] <mjg59> Keybuk: Are you sure cardbus shows up in there?
[10:36] <Keybuk> mjg59: yes
[10:37] <Keybuk> I can't think of anywhere else it'd show up, anyway
[10:37] <elmo> umm
[10:38] <Keybuk> mjg59: if cardbus was handled by old cardmgr, that's where it should show up now
[10:38] <mjg59> Keybuk: It wasn't
[10:38] <Keybuk> what was it handled by?
[10:39] <mjg59> The kernel
[10:39] <mjg59> cardbus doesn't need manual resource management
[10:39] <Keybuk> right
[10:40] <Kamion> cardbus is just pci with a bridge to get to it
[10:40] <mjg59> Yes
[10:40] <Keybuk> that's what I thought
[10:40] <mjg59> But the cardbus controller needs to be setup correctly for that to work
[10:40] <Keybuk> so it should show up in either pcmcia or pci
[10:40] <Keybuk> or probably both
[10:40] <Kamion> Debian's pcmciautils has an 'lspcmcia' which is helpful
[10:40] <Kamion> I've been meaning to get UVF
[10:41] <Keybuk> Kamion: oh, what does that do?  iterate /sys/bus/pcmcia ?
[10:41] <elmo> ANYWAY
[10:42] <Kamion> /sys/class/pcmcia_socket/blah, print ioports/iomem, and I think some other stuff
[10:42] <elmo> so, the old aironet cisco card works fine, but doesn't appear in lspci
[10:42] <elmo> + either
[10:42] <elmo> so I guess it's some quirk of this cardbus controller?
[10:42] <mjg59> elmo: The aironet is probably pcmcia rather than cardbus
[10:42] <Kamion> elmo: try pcmcia-socket-startup
[10:42] <mjg59> Whereas the atheros will certainly be cardbus
[10:43] <Keybuk> elmo: for when it doesn't
[10:43] <Kamion> oh, sorry, thought you said the aironet *didn't* work
[10:43] <Keybuk> I think it's there because someone filed a bug saying "my computer doesn't shut down, but I don't know that it's ok to do it myself"
[10:43] <Keybuk> elmo: does the aironet appear under /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices ?
[10:44] <elmo> Keybuk: something does, when I plug it in, yeah
[10:44] <Kamion> check /sys/class/pcmcia_socket/ to see if there's a socket listed there, just in case; if not /lib/udev/pcmcia-socket-startup might help
[10:44] <Kamion> some machines also need pci=assign-busses at the moment, I believe (there's a fix in 2.6.16 or 2.6.17 or thereabouts for that)
[10:45] <BenM> i think dapper is *REALLY* close to being < 100mb for the default gnome install
[10:45] <BenM> mine is at 102.4 mb
[10:45] <BenM> but i have icons on the desktop, including pdfs
[10:46] <elmo> there's a /sys/class/pcmcia_socket/pcmcia_socket0 dir, with a bunch of stuff in it, with the atheros in
[10:46] <mjg59> elmo: Yeah, if you could check pci=assign-busses, that would be helpful
[10:46] <elmo> ok, doing that now
[10:46] <elmo> sigh, we need some non-freaky spare laptops in the office, I wanted to go home before the shops closed tonight
[10:49] <Keybuk> pitti: finally done your syncs, btw <g>
[10:49] <elmo> yikes, it's SOSing at me now
[10:49] <pitti> Keybuk: saw it, thank you!
[10:49] <Keybuk> elmo: what would be the point of having test laptops that actually work? :p
[10:49] <omeg> Hey infinity
[10:49] <Keybuk> pitti: thank elmo, not me
[10:49] <omeg> Remember that I was going to do that font for usplash in BDF format? I'm still eager to do it, but I'd just like to know if you could give me any deadline.
[10:49] <pitti> elmo: thank you!
[10:49] <pitti> :)
[10:50] <elmo> pci=assign-busses seems like a winner
[10:50] <elmo> it's in lspci output now
[10:50] <Keybuk> omeg: April 20th
[10:50] <Keybuk> elmo: did that make it get loaded too?
[10:50] <elmo> and networking works
[10:50] <elmo> Keybuk: yep
[10:51] <omeg> Er.
[10:51] <mjg59> elmo: Ok. Can you file a bug - there's a patch for it
[10:51] <mjg59> (somewhere)
[10:51] <elmo> mjg59: against which package?
[10:51] <mjg59> elmo: linux-source-2.6.15
[10:51] <Keybuk> omeg: alternatively if you're preparing the font for Edgy, somewhere around September 14th
[10:52] <mjg59> Keybuk: ? Changing the font to be non-butt-ugly is a bugfix
[10:52] <Keybuk> mjg59: I would disagree ... it would require an exception to UserInterfaceFreeze
[10:52] <Keybuk> and it's not "butt-ugly", it's just plain
[10:53] <Keybuk> given the task of screenshots and documentation that include the startup screen, I'd err on the cautious side
[10:53] <mjg59> Keybuk: I don't think we've ever regarded fonts as part of the UI freeze
[10:53] <mjg59> Given that applications have still been changing them recently
[10:54] <Keybuk> but that font affects a lot of things
[10:54] <Keybuk> for example unless it's exactly the same size, we'll have to go through all the init scripts fixing the messages again
[10:54] <Keybuk> so they don't word-wrap
[10:54] <Keybuk> and I don't want to be doing that kind of thing right before RC
[10:55] <mjg59> Wait, what?
[10:55] <Keybuk> what do you mean, what?
[10:55] <mjg59> When did we do that? Why didn't we just fix the word-wrapping?
[10:55] <Keybuk> we did that this development cycle
[10:55] <Keybuk> made sure all the messages fit onto one line
[10:55] <Keybuk> otherwise it looked messy
[10:55] <mjg59> Why? (They don't)
[10:55] <Keybuk> even with proper word-wrapping
[10:55] <Keybuk> they should
[10:56] <Keybuk> blah blah  [ ok ] 
[10:56] <Keybuk> looks better than
[10:56] <mjg59> They certainly don't appear to, though I'd have to check which package it is
[10:56] <Keybuk> blah blah  [ ok ] 
[10:56] <Keybuk> blah
[10:56] <Keybuk> blah blah  [ ok ] 
[10:56] <Keybuk> which makes it look like blah failed
[10:56] <mjg59> Keybuk: That's why you indent wrapped lines (and put the [ ok ]  after the last line)
[10:57] <Keybuk> still didn't look nice
[10:57] <mjg59> Where was this specced?
[10:57] <Keybuk> you don't really get time to take in details like that when they're scrolling past so fast
[10:57] <Keybuk> was discussed at UBZ
[10:57] <mjg59> Keybuk: I'm a little frustrated that we didn't try to fix it in usplash
[10:58] <mjg59> And that no bugs were raised to that effect
[10:58] <Keybuk> why?
[10:58] <Keybuk> we went for the easiest fix
[10:58] <mjg59> No, the easiest fix was to fix it in usplash
[10:58] <Keybuk> fix what in usplash though?
[10:58] <mjg59> Otherwise third party applications still look ugly
[10:58] <mjg59> The word-wrapping algorithm
[10:59] <Keybuk> the problem was that wrapped or indented lines made it look like there were failed services
[10:59] <Keybuk> the only way to fix that would be to not word-wrap at all
[10:59] <Keybuk> and then you have the problem of dealing with over-long messages
[10:59] <mjg59> Keybuk: You produced code mock-ups?
[10:59] <Keybuk> no?  why would I have?
[11:00] <mjg59> I'm somewhat confused how you can claim that it made it look like there were failed services if the code was never tested like that
[11:00] <Keybuk> it didn't need to be tested
[11:00] <Keybuk> there were several examples in the ordinary boot and shutdown sequences
[11:00] <elmo> mjg59: done
[11:00] <Keybuk> so we fixed those
[11:00] <mjg59> Keybuk: ?
[11:00] <Keybuk> it was the spaces between the [ ok ] s that was the problem
[11:00] <Keybuk> not how the stuff on the left was laid out
[11:01] <omeg> Keybuk: well, I'm working on a font for usplash. I know it's past UI freeze, and if it doesn't get in before Dapper, then that's too bad. infinity said that he'd look into putting the font into usplash if it was easily possible. I hope it can be fixed since I really don't like that font (and the fact it's variable spaced).
[11:01] <mjg59> usplash doesn't word-wrap properly. There's no way that you can use its current behaviour as a measure of how alternative behaviours would look
[11:01] <Keybuk> any large gap between an ok made it look like a problem
[11:01] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[11:01] <mjg59> Keybuk: And it still doesn't help in the case of third-party applications
[11:01] <Keybuk> like I said, easiest quick fix to the problem
[11:01] <mjg59> Well, no, you could have filed a bug on the package causing the problem
[11:01] <Keybuk> there already is a bug on usplash
[11:01] <Keybuk> (that hasn't been fixed)
[11:02] <elmo> mjg59: btw, bcm43xx still gives me no love, even with current dapper kernel.  well that's not true, it associates now, but I can't dhcp
[11:02] <mjg59> elmo: What does tcpdump show while you're trying?
[11:02] <Keybuk> long-term, I'm actually with the guy suggesting we shouldn't display boot messages
[11:02] <Keybuk> I think the progress bar is sufficient
[11:02] <Keybuk> elmo: got firmware for it, right?
[11:03] <elmo> mjg59: err, good question.  not sure, I'll check again while I still have the laptop
[11:03] <elmo> Keybuk: heh, yeah
[11:03] <Keybuk> elmo: just checking
[11:03] <joelbryan> yeah!, it should display boot messages
[11:03] <omeg> Which one? I'm one of them, Keybuk. Hold on, grabbing a link to an alternate proposal I made...
[11:03] <Keybuk> joelbryan: you appear to be simultaneously agreeing and disagreeing there, how diversive of you ;)
[11:04] <mjg59> Keybuk: Bug number?
[11:04] <omeg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/Artwork#preview <-- My proposal at the bottom.
[11:04] <joelbryan> I mean, progress bar is sufficient
[11:04] <Keybuk> mjg59: don't recall, I don't pay attention to usplash bugs
[11:04] <Keybuk> it was in the list when I looked
[11:04] <omeg> Basically, it's just the progress bar plus a message that states what's happening and some aesthetic additions.
[11:05] <joelbryan> boot messages is too much
[11:05] <Keybuk> omeg: yeah, that
[11:05] <Keybuk> perfectly sufficient imo
[11:05] <Keybuk> will probably try that for edgy for a bit, see how it feels
[11:05] <mjg59> Keybuk: Having checked them, I can't find any bug opened on this
[11:05] <Keybuk> mjg59: check the rejected ones ?
[11:05] <omeg> I think that boot messages are cool, but not really of any use to the people that Ubuntu seems to be positioning itself for. They're kind of a geek toy, maybe.
[11:05] <joelbryan> I remember filing a bug report on usplash, to display only 1 line
[11:05] <Keybuk> mjg59: it may not be under usplash anymore, it may have got rejected and filed back on the init script package
[11:06] <Keybuk> was before we switched to malone
[11:06] <mjg59> Keybuk: Nope
[11:06] <omeg> Keybuk: it'd be very cool to see that in an Edgy alpha (plus if enough people like it then I might have just made a design that's seen on millions of computers worldwide everyday during startup...)
[11:06] <Keybuk> I don't have my bug mail archived from before my server change I'm afraid
[11:06] <Keybuk> but it was there
[11:07] <mjg59> Keybuk: I don't recall ever seeing a bug on this filed against usplash
[11:07] <Keybuk> omeg: easy enough to test, just comment out the usplash_write stuff from lsb/init-functions
[11:07] <joelbryan> mjg59: Bug #32327
[11:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32327 in usplash "Crop all the text into 1 single line." [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32327
[11:07] <mjg59> joelbryan: No, that's an entirely different bug
[11:07] <Keybuk> mjg59: I'll have a look later
[11:07] <omeg> Yeah, but I mean including that progress bar that I made. It'd be pretty cool to see that one in action.
[11:09] <omeg> I really should make an interactive example of that.
[11:09] <_ion> Argh, a blinking Ubuntu logo. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/Artwork?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=usplash2_mockup.gif
[11:09] <omeg> Isn't that blinking logo just because of a fault in GIF encoding?
[11:09] <omeg> Oh wait, I'm now reading that entry.
[11:09] <omeg> Yeah, I really would not like a glowing (or animating in any case) logo.
[11:09] <Keybuk> heh, not even have the threesome spinning? :p
[11:10] <omeg> Well, that (plus <blink> tags for all the boot messages).
[11:10] <omeg> I also think that the entire screen's palette should have a continuous full hue shift since you just can't make a cool operating system without it.
[11:11] <omeg> (</sarcasm>)
[11:11] <joelbryan> how about BOML
[11:11] <omeg> What's BOML?
[11:12] <omeg> Well, that's already going to happen with the UI in Ubuntu not being transparent (and sucking up 80% of that cool new CPU you just bought).
[11:12] <Keybuk> Vista's boot logo looks mostly like the current XP one, doesn't it?
[11:12] <Keybuk> just a bit "shinier"
[11:13] <omeg> Although I do think it would be rather nice if Ubuntu's UI could have anti-aliased edges in themes that have rounded edges.
[11:13] <Keybuk> the early betas had the windows logo in B&W, which looked kinda cute
[11:13] <ogra> omeg ++
[11:13] <ogra> thats why i *hate* rounded metacity themes
[11:14] <fabbione> mdz: btw.. the X bugs are going down and LP tells you lie!
[11:14] <fabbione> mdz: the subscribed thing is tricky.. because all non-X bugs that gets reassigned will still keep ubuntu-x-swat as subscribed..
[11:14] <omeg> Yeah. Well, I don't hate them. But I think that it'd be nicer with anti-aliasing. It looks really good in the Mac OS UI.
[11:14] <fabbione> mdz: i did speak with LP guys to have a button to unsub a team (as team leader/or part of the team)
[11:14] <_ion> Window opacity is one of the most distracting effects the composite extension makes possible. :-)
[11:15] <mdz> fabbione: there's already a bug open
[11:15] <omeg> Window opacity?
[11:15] <mdz> fabbione: if the +packagebugs had totals, that would be good
[11:15] <fabbione> mdz: yes the feature should be ready relatively soon
[11:15] <_ion> On the other hand, window shadows are among the useful effects.
[11:15] <fabbione> mdz: yeps...
[11:15] <omeg> I think any kind of transparency (barring shadows, which seem to be very useful) in UIs aren't good practice.
[11:16] <omeg> Shadows seem to help discern what the active window is. They also just look really cool. I wonder if that's possible in future releases without being a performance hog.
[11:17] <_ion> It isn't a performance hog if the GPU handles it completely.
[11:18] <omeg> So then the GPU drivers are the limiting factor?
[11:19] <_ion> If the hw and the driver support OpenGL acceleration, compiz should generally work.
[11:19] <omeg> I really don't know much about technical stuff, by the way. I only know ActionScript coding (although I do know that well enough for advanced stuff as far as possible with it). I mainly just like watching the development and discussing things from a designer's point of view.
[11:19] <_ion> Xgl+compiz that is.
[11:20] <ogra> but there are still more systems out there in the world that dont support GL 
[11:20] <ogra> so you cant easily make it a default
[11:20] <mdz> fabbione: it is definitely going down though; that much is easy to see even with the error rate
[11:21] <fabbione> ehehe
[11:21] <_ion> You can make it a default on hardware that can handle it. :-)
[11:21] <joelbryan> software rendering can solve all the GPU issues.
[11:21] <omeg> That would be great. I'm sure that every nVidia and ATi card in existence supports it. Are the onboard cards that you're worrying about?
[11:22] <omeg> *what you're
[11:22] <ogra> mdz, german and turkish edubuntu ubuiquity installs finished without any issues, no swap, 265M, amd64 and i386 tested
[11:22] <_ion> You really don't want to use CPU time for rendering shadows as a default.
[11:22] <mdz> ogra: great, thanks
[11:22] <mjg59> How often are windows being re-rendered when the CPU is at 100% anyway?
[11:22] <joelbryan> with software rendering, you don't need an AGP, it will work even for old hardware.
[11:23] <ogra> we had issues with a laptop with only 200M in #edubuntu before
[11:24] <mjg59> Kamion: Is there any reason we don't enable swap during a ubiquity install?
[11:24] <mjg59> Surely the locale generation is after partitioning?
[11:26] <mjr> The thing isn't as much that plenty of hardware couldn't handle shadows by default. It's that plenty of it can't, using free (and stable) drivers.
[11:26] <mjr> the r300 dri gives some hope at least
[11:27] <mjg59> The fact that lots of hardware is produced by unfriendly companies shouldn't prevent us from spending time on supporting the hardware that /is/ well supported
[11:29] <mjr> obviously
[11:30] <mjr> just that nvidia owners can't really complain about not getting razzledazzled by default
[11:30] <mjr> does any free dri driver support pbuffers/fbo tho?
[11:31] <mjr> (required for opengl/xvideo clients on Xgl)
[11:31] <mjr> ah well, I digress from the channel topic
[11:31] <Keybuk> mjr: why can't we complain?
[11:31] <mjr> well, to Ubuntu, anyhow. Complain to nvidia all you like.
[11:32] <Keybuk> I can complain to the Xorg authors for not improving their free drivers?
[11:32] <_ion> We should do what RMS does. ;-)
[11:32] <ogra> ranting until we die ? 
[11:32] <mjr> Keybuk, well yes, you are undoubtedly capable of that, but it won't do you much good
[11:32] <mjg59> mjr: We're unlikely to be going with Xgl
[11:32] <_ion> ogra: Google for RMS+ATI+protest.
[11:32] <ogra> doesnt help in his case :)
[11:32] <highvoltage> declaring wars on ATI?
[11:33] <fabbione> Keybuk: that would go back to nvdia or ati fro not releasing all their spec pubblicaly..
[11:33] <Keybuk> I maintain what I've always said, until we (Linux, Open Source, etc.) have a significant portion of the customers of big vendors; they don't care a monkeys
[11:33] <kmon> mjg59: may I ask why?
[11:33] <Keybuk> and for us to get that significant portion, we need to support them
[11:33] <Keybuk> so that means dealing with hardware, even if the vendor is uncooperative
[11:34] <ogra> kmon, because we'd exclude a huge amount of users ? 
[11:34] <Keybuk> if we stick our head in the sand and claim it's all their fault, then we're not going to win
[11:34] <mjr> mjg59, yes well, last I checked AIGLX didn't do either of those things at all, but perhaps things change ;)
[11:34] <kmon> ogra: ok.
[11:34] <mjr> Keybuk, win what?
[11:34] <Keybuk> mjr: customers, users, etc.
[11:35] <mjg59> mjr: Mm? Xv works fine with aiglx
[11:35] <mjg59> You lose the ability to do shaped or translucent video, but, well
[11:35] <fabbione> night people
[11:35] <mjr> mjg59, well, I just read that it doesn't work with the composite manager, so I assumed it meant "at all if the manager is running"
[11:38] <mjr> ('course, you can always turn it off, but seems kinda heavy to have to do that for watching video)
[11:40] <mdke> jdub: eia
[11:44] <Kamion> mjg59: we do enable swap
[11:44] <Kamion> mjg59: and yeah, good point, that makes the later locale-gen not a problem
[11:44] <mjg59> Kamion: So why is the memory usage of localegen an issue?
[11:44] <mjg59> Heh
[11:45] <Kamion> mjg59: we run locale-gen immediately after the language screen, so that ubiquity can setlocale()
[11:45] <mjg59> Kamion: Ah!
[11:45] <Kamion> this is necessary in order to display translations of ubiquity itself
[11:45] <mjg59> Right
[11:46] <dholbach> i'm off to bed - good night guys
[11:46] <mdke> night dholbach 
[11:46] <dholbach> night mdke
[11:50] <mdz> sfllaw: would you join us over on #ubuntu-kernel for a bit?