[12:16] <dAndy> if one were interested in learning how to build debs, is there some place someone could go to learn?
[12:17] <lifeless> ubuntu-motu
[12:21] <mdke> dAndy: also System/Help/System Documentation/Packaging Guide
[12:22] <dAndy> mdke: just found that, should have started with the computer rather than the interweb, thanks
[12:22] <mdke> dAndy: :)
[12:23] <mdke> anyone around who knows how I can find out which fonts are used for various languages?
[12:24] <Keybuk> *mumble* Pango *mumble*
[12:26] <Keybuk> I know that it decides, in co-operation with fontconfig and Xft which font can provide the right glyph on a character-by-character basis
[12:26] <Keybuk> if you open Character Map, and select the font you "want", you get the same selections
[12:26] <Keybuk> so if I select Arial in that, the glyphs that Arial can provide change, the ones it doesn't don't
[12:26] <mdke> ah, yeah character map is very helpful, thanks
[12:27] <Keybuk> and if you right-click a glyph, it tells you what font it used
[12:27] <mdke> yep
[12:27] <Keybuk> so I can right-click the Stargate symbol () with Arial selected, and see it came from Code2000
[12:27] <mdke> so all I need to match is the right script to the language
[12:27] <mdke> which I'm sure google is capable of helping with.
[01:36] <Surak> Does someone know about any koreans using ubuntu? 
[01:37] <Surak> I mean, a korean group?
[01:37] <LaserJock> there isn't a LoCo team for Korea?
[01:38] <tseng> mdz: dont mean to bother, but wanted to be sure you got my uvf mails
[01:38] <Surak> LaserJock: I'm testing ubiquity. It seems to stuck when you select your language as korean.
[01:38] <tseng> mdz: i have been switching mail servers
[01:43] <mdz> tseng: I did, I've just been swamped
[01:45] <Keybuk> mdz: btw, is that retchmail sync yours?
[01:46] <sabdfl> Surak: ubuntu-ko@lists.ubuntu.com
[01:46] <sabdfl> Surak: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Atie
[01:46] <sabdfl> Surak: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KoreanTeam
[01:46] <sabdfl> particularly the latter one
[01:46] <ajmitch> morning all
[01:46] <sabdfl> night all
[01:47] <Surak> thanks sabdfl. I found that the ubiquity bug happens with other languages also
[01:47] <Surak> they are farsi, macedonian and korean
[01:47] <sabdfl> Surak: ok, could you file a bug on that for Kamion?
[01:48] <mdz> Keybuk: nope, I noticed it there when I went to test
[01:48] <mdz> Keybuk: I seem to recall a retchmail sync request or UVF discussion somewhere though
[01:49] <Surak> sabdfl: done: bug #43907 - complete with debug output and every languages tested.
[01:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43907 in ubiquity "Language between "Euskaraz" and "Suomeski" doesn't work." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43907
[01:49] <Keybuk> mdz: aye, nobody on the team has touched the bug though
[01:49] <Keybuk> and nobody can remember doing it
[01:50] <Keybuk> it could have been cprov testing something, I guess
[01:51] <Keybuk> I'll get rid of it if it's not yours then
[02:07] <bddebian> Howdy peoples
[02:07] <Surak> hello bddebian
[02:07] <bddebian> Hello Surak
[02:09] <sladen> elmo: yup, bug #35080, should have been closed with xkeyboard-config (0.8-5)
[02:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35080 in xkeyboard-config "Numlock key doesn't work on IBM t42" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35080
[02:11] <Surak> does someone know what's the bug for the missing gtk theme in today's dapper live?
[02:15] <tseng> mdz: thanks for looking, i hope you sneak a break in sometime
[02:22] <bddebian> Heya Burgundavia
[02:23] <Burgundavia> salut bddebian
[02:24] <BenM> hey, has there ever been any talk of using prelink in ubuntu
[02:24] <BenM> am looking for some content for the next round of blogging
[02:24] <elmo> sladen: uh, don't think it has been then - I had the same problem today on an X41 with a docking station
[02:25] <sladen> elmo: do you still have access to it (eg, is it in the office?)
[02:25] <elmo> sladen: yeah (not right now tho, it being 1am and all)
[02:25] <sladen> BenM: you /can/ use prelinking (apt-get install prelink).  It's unlikely to become a default...
[02:26] <BenM> right
[02:26] <BenM> but what are the reasons behind not being a default
[02:28] <sladen> BenM: all the libraries in Ubuntu occupy more than 4GB of address space and you have to rebuild them all every time you upgrade anything
[02:28] <BenM> there's an option to account for that
[02:28] <BenM> also, if you are out of date, it's not "bad"
[02:29] <BenM> anyways, do you happen to have a pointer to any talk about this
[02:29] <sladen> elmo: okay, I'll ping you in the morning and get you to do  xmodmap -pke | grep Num
[02:29] <elmo> sladen: cool, thanks
[02:30] <BenM> rather not
[02:31] <Burgundavia> BenM: those kinds of blogs are usually misinterpreted and taken very badly
[02:31] <BenM> exactly
[02:31] <sladen> BenM: Keybuk did various timings;  I think one of the factors may have been that the percentage of the start-up time the prelinking provided turned out to be so small compared with the start-up time
[02:31] <BenM> yes
[02:31] <BenM> it does have memory benefits though
[02:31] <BenM> because it reduces the # pages touched
[02:33] <sladen> BenM: try: http://www.google.com/search?q=prelink+scott+remnant
[02:33] <BenM> thanks
[02:33] <BenM> i'm feeling good about ubuntu perf though
[02:34] <BenM> now that there's icon cache, in proc applets
[02:35] <imbrandon> anyone here tried the new qt4 designer ? or using it? for some reason i'm not getting any widgets 
[02:35] <imbrandon> wondering if its just me or a bug in our packages
[02:46] <Keybuk> prelink is a red herring
[02:47] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: you might have better luck in #kubuntu-devel
[02:48] <Keybuk> I'm going to start a webpage ... "Things that Keybuk says are pointless"
[02:48] <Keybuk> #1 can be prelink
[02:48] <Keybuk> and #2 can be initng
[02:48] <Keybuk> :p
[02:49] <Burgundavia> Keybuk: what about that preload thingy that behdad did for soc for fedora last year?
[02:50] <Keybuk> the what the who did for where?
[02:50] <Keybuk> oh
[02:50] <Keybuk> that's something else *entirely*
[02:50] <Keybuk> that's like our "readahead" package
[02:50] <Keybuk> but for the user's desktop too
[02:50] <Burgundavia> ah, ok
[02:51] <Keybuk> prelink is when you futz around with shared libraries so that their symbols are already relocated when they're loaded
[02:51] <Keybuk> saving you from relocating every symbol on load of the application
[02:52] <Keybuk> it's an efficient way to massively increase your memory usage without any appreciable benefit in application startup time compared to an optimisation of the symbol table (which we do)
[02:52] <BenM> s/increase/decrease
[02:52] <Keybuk> increase
[02:52] <BenM> my measurements show decrease
[02:53] <Keybuk> *sigh*
[02:55] <Keybuk> what do I know about shared libraries, anyway? :)
[02:55] <BenM> probably more than me
[02:55] <BenM> :-)
[02:56] <Keybuk> with prelinking a library has to be loaded in exactly the same place every single time
[02:56] <Keybuk> as soon as you need to move the library's address, you lose the benefit
[02:56] <BenM> right
[02:57] <Keybuk> that means you have to analyse every application on the disk
[02:57] <Keybuk> and then ensure that every single application that could load a library loads it in the same place
[02:57] <Keybuk> which means you also have to move all the other libraries around as well
[02:57] <Keybuk> so a library has a fixed load address and space in memory every single time it's loaded
[02:57] <BenM> so, you have to do work every time you upgrade
[02:57] <BenM> to keep the benefit
[02:57] <Keybuk> so a typical application will actually use libraries spread out over, say, 250MB of memory
[02:58] <BenM> ok
[02:58] <Keybuk> where if it could just load the library wherever it likes and relocate the symbols (the default) the libraries may only be spread into 10MB of memory
[02:58] <Keybuk> because they can just be loaded sequentially
[02:58] <BenM> but that's virtual memory
[02:58] <Keybuk> rather than spread wide
[02:58] <BenM> most desktop apps
[02:58] <BenM> probably don't need 2 gb of unfragmented address space
[02:58] <Keybuk> it's virtual memory, yes; but the mapping between virtual and physical memory is closer than you may think for speed reasons
[02:58] <BenM> ok
[02:58] <BenM> i don't know that much about the hardware level
[02:59] <Keybuk> while it's good "on paper", in practice it actually causes more memory usage
[02:59] <Keybuk> and remember, every time you disconnect virtual and physical memory, you have to futz in the processor, which actually slows things down again
[03:00] <BenM> might there be a small set of libraries that would be worth prelinking
[03:00] <BenM> say, the libgnomeui stack or something
[03:00] <Keybuk> prelinking also assumes that ALL symbols are relocated when the application starts
[03:01] <Keybuk> not to mention that you have to calculate each relocation individually, and can't just do one for the library and work the rest out from there
[03:01] <Keybuk> when in reality, only those really critical symbols are relocated first time AND most of them can be calculated trivially
[03:01] <Keybuk> and the rest are just done whenever the function is first called, and the relocation cost is lost in the general idleness of the CPY
[03:01] <Keybuk> uh, CPU
[03:02] <Keybuk> it also assumes that libraries can be magically summoned into memory, and that most of the time is actually lost to relocation
[03:02] <Keybuk> while that's probably true for libc, and the gnome stack, which are nearly always in memory
[03:03] <Keybuk> anything else (I always pick on OpenOffice) needs to be hauled off disk
[03:03] <Keybuk> which involves I/O
[03:03] <Keybuk> which gives you plenty of free time while you wait for the disk to get around to it
[03:04] <Keybuk> given all of that, it actually turns out that there's benefit to arranging the symbol table a little more efficiently (so symbols hash better, and are easier to find) 
[03:04] <Keybuk> because the majority of relocation time is spent in strcmp
[03:04] <Keybuk> we've done that since the beginning, iirc
[03:04] <BenM> ok
[03:04] <Keybuk> and Ubuntu consistently gets comments that it's one of the "snappiest and fastest" distributions
[03:04] <BenM> so, one of the things i'm interested in
[03:04] <Keybuk> even compared to prelink-crazy ones
[03:04] <BenM> is removing the extra writable memory
[03:05] <Keybuk> which extra writable?
[03:05] <BenM> for example, prelinking seems to help with gstreamer
[03:05] <Keybuk> the symbol table?
[03:05] <BenM> no, with stuff in .data
[03:06] <Keybuk> .data is initialised global data in code
[03:06] <Keybuk> it's not really that worrysome?
[03:06] <BenM> that needs relocation
[03:06] <BenM> like a table of pointers to char*s
[03:06] <BenM> some apps like lots of these
[03:06] <BenM> we need to fix them
[03:07] <BenM> but prelinking seems to act as a nice stopgap measure
[03:07] <BenM> because it pre-relocates
[03:07] <Keybuk> I can't think of many examples off-hand that do that
[03:07] <BenM> there are *LOTS*
[03:07] <Keybuk> remember not to confuse char * with char[]  :)
[03:07] <BenM> try looking at the smaps for mixer_applet
[03:07] <BenM> specifically, gstreamer
[03:08] <BenM> all of the plugins
[03:08] <BenM> have TONS of tables in .data
[03:08] <Keybuk> are the tables intended to be modified?
[03:08] <BenM> many of which seem to get made dirty memory
[03:08] <BenM> no, they are const
[03:08] <BenM> but have pointers
[03:08] <Keybuk> then they should be declared const
[03:08] <BenM> and so need relocation
[03:08] <Keybuk> and then they get put in .text
[03:08] <BenM> that doesn't matter
[03:08] <BenM> if you have const char** x = {"a","b","c"...}
[03:08] <BenM> it's still trouble
[03:08] <BenM> i know you can do tricks
[03:08] <Keybuk> and then you just relocate the .text section, and remember to perform a relative relocation the first time the pointer is asked for
[03:09] <BenM> but not everyone does
[03:09] <Keybuk> gcc takes care of all this
[03:09] <Keybuk> or just buy an AMD64 :p
[03:09] <BenM> dunno, from what i can tell, it's an actual issue
[03:09] <Keybuk> of course, large amounts of .text or .data in a shared library is generally naughty
[03:09] <Keybuk> so you have a point there
[03:09] <BenM> yes, i know
[03:10] <BenM> but, fixing it
[03:10] <BenM> is a major undertaking
[03:10] <Keybuk> do you have an example of a source file that does that, btw?
[03:11] <BenM> look at libxvidcore.so
[03:11] <BenM> i don't know the source files
[03:11] <BenM> it has 668 kb of writable mappings
[03:11] <BenM> 140 kb of them are dirty for me
[03:12] <BenM> this is loaded by mixer_applet2
[03:12] <BenM> for god only knows what reason
[03:13] <Keybuk> hmm
[03:13] <Keybuk> I don't see 668KB 
[03:13] <Keybuk> .data is only 37KB
[03:13] <Keybuk> .bss is 434KB though :)
[03:14] <Keybuk> that may be an AMD64 different
[03:14] <BenM> yes
[03:14] <BenM> the bss is nasty
[03:14] <Keybuk> hmm, .bss is 470KB on i386
[03:14] <BenM> luckily, not all of it is used
[03:14] <Keybuk> .data is actually much smaller
[03:14] <Keybuk> only 912 bytes
[03:15] <BenM> mmm, .data here is small
[03:15] <BenM> why the hell is there such a big mapping
[03:15] <Keybuk> the .got is small too
[03:15] <BenM> can you run http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~bmaurer/memory/smem.pl
[03:15] <BenM> pass the pid of mixer_applet2
[03:16] <Keybuk> what does that actually do?
[03:16] <BenM> reads /proc/PID/smaps
[03:16] <BenM> in a friendly way
[03:16] <Keybuk> like pmap does? :)
[03:16] <BenM> pmap doesn't give me data about how many pages are dirty
[03:16] <Keybuk> true
[03:17] <BenM> that's the data i really want :-)
[03:17] <BenM> btw, there's a column in pmap for it
[03:17] <Keybuk> I just tend to read the actual /proc files
[03:17] <BenM> the smaps are sorta verbose
[03:17] <BenM> not really a table
[03:18] <Keybuk> anyway, let's look at this
[03:18] <Keybuk> which map for you is 668KB ?
[03:19] <Keybuk> eww, 4MB heap just for a volume control ... I hate GNOME programmers, they're so damned sloppy
[03:19] <BenM> dude
[03:19] <BenM> it gets worse
[03:19] <BenM> they load the WHOLE FUCKING GSTREAMER PLATFORM
[03:19] <Keybuk> *shrug* nothing wrong with that
[03:20] <Keybuk> gstreamer's bound to get loaded by something
[03:20] <Keybuk> chances are if you've got a volume control, you're going to use it
[03:20] <Keybuk> ie. going to play something
[03:20] <BenM> yes, but the per-app cost is rather hi
[03:20] <BenM> volume control is in the default distro
[03:20] <Keybuk> meh, I have no problem with audio libraries being "preloaded" :p
[03:20] <BenM> hahahaha
[03:20] <Keybuk> not on a modern desktop, anyway
[03:20] <BenM> seriously, does every desktop need libxvidcore loaded
[03:21] <Keybuk> there could be some improvement to when plugins are actually loaded
[03:21] <Keybuk> I imagine that's somewhere down their todo list after getting decent coverage
[03:21] <BenM> anyways, the important thing is the per-app private memory costs
[03:22] <Keybuk> indeed
[03:22] <Keybuk> btw, it's refreshing to talk to someone who already knows the difference between private and shared memory
[03:22] <Keybuk> most of the people who bitch about memory usage forget about shared
[03:22] <BenM> i know
[03:22] <BenM> i want g-s-m to give good numbers
[03:22] <BenM> with smaps
[03:22] <Keybuk> hell, half of them think the X server really does use 1024MB of memory
[03:22] <BenM> we have the data
[03:22] <BenM> i filed a bug for this
[03:22] <Keybuk> I still can't find this map of yours though, which is it?
[03:23] <BenM> 	Bug 43677 
[03:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43677 in gnome-system-monitor "Meaningful default memory stats" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43677
[03:23] <BenM> http://pastebin.com/708667
[03:24] <BenM> also, note how loading 50 million plugins
[03:24] <BenM> also costs 4kb of private memory each
[03:24] <Keybuk> I don't see the 668KB there
[03:24] <Keybuk> 4KB is a standard overhead for every shared library
[03:24] <BenM> that was vmsize
[03:24] <BenM> i know
[03:24] <Keybuk> wouldn't worry about it :)
[03:24] <BenM> but 50*4kb
[03:24] <BenM> adds up
[03:25] <BenM> does the volume manager need libgstvideoflip.so
[03:25] <BenM> #
[03:25] <BenM>      260 kb        0 kb      256 kb
[03:25] <BenM> #
[03:25] <BenM>      668 kb        0 kb      140 kb   /usr/lib/libxvidcore.so.4.1
[03:25] <BenM> #
[03:25] <BenM>      964 kb        0 kb       72 kb   /usr/lib/libvorbisenc.so.2.0.2
[03:25] <BenM> #
[03:25] <BenM>       72 kb        0 kb       72 kb   /usr/lib/liboil-0.3.so.0.1.0
[03:25] <BenM> #
[03:25] <BenM>       64 kb        0 kb       64 kb
[03:26] <BenM> note how the ones that are annon are *probably* .bss
[03:26] <BenM> i could track down who's responsible
[03:26] <Keybuk> that's 0 kb dirty for me
[03:26] <Keybuk> it's also 0kb dirty in your own paste
[03:26] <sladen> isn't .bss allocated on demand-write?
[03:26] <BenM> dirty is 3rd column
[03:26] <BenM> sladen, yes
[03:26] <BenM> however, some of the libs write it
[03:26] <BenM> on demand
[03:26] <Keybuk>      668 kb       40 kb        0 kb   /usr/lib/libxvidcore.so.4.1
[03:27] <BenM> wtf
[03:27] <Keybuk> ^ line 295 of your own paste
[03:27] <BenM> oh
[03:27] <BenM> that's shared
[03:27] <BenM> you want the top one
[03:27] <BenM> those are private mappings
[03:27] <Keybuk> interestingly, my mixer applet doesn't seem to map in xvidcore
[03:27] <Keybuk> can you pastebin me your smaps file?
[03:27] <BenM> sure
[03:29] <Keybuk> also pastebin me "objdump -x /usr/lib/libxvidcore.so.4.1"
[03:30] <BenM> http://pastebin.com/708671
[03:31] <BenM> http://pastebin.com/708673
[03:34] <Keybuk> hmm
[03:35] <Keybuk> can't really tell what the dirtyness is
[03:36] <Keybuk> as you say, probably a lot of stuff in .bss that shouldn't be
[03:36] <BenM> yeah
[03:36] <BenM> it's a pretty nasty setup
[03:37] <BenM> really, we should get the mixer applet not to load the whole gstreamer framework
[03:37] <Keybuk> the fact it's 668KB isn't interesting
[03:37] <Keybuk> that's just the linker being lazy
[03:37] <Keybuk> or get the gstreamer framework to load itself piecemeal as needs be
[03:37] <BenM> yes
[03:37] <BenM> both would be good
[03:37] <BenM> if you have totem with encoding X movie
[03:37] <BenM> you don't need encodings Y Z
[03:38] <Keybuk> interestingly, a quick glance over the source; I don't see any bss
[03:39] <Keybuk> they actually seem to be quite careful to declare things static const
[03:39] <Keybuk> so either gcc is playing silly buggers, or they've missed one big one
[03:39] <BenM> yeah
[03:39] <Keybuk> hmm, nah, won't be gcc ... it's dirty
[03:40] <Keybuk> oh, found it
[03:40] <Keybuk> lazy colourspace initialisation
[03:41] <Keybuk> rather than hard-code the table, they build it at runtime
[03:41] <Keybuk> cute
[03:41] <BenM> ya
[03:41] <BenM> very
[03:41] <BenM> especially since it's not so lazy
[03:41] <BenM> they load it on startup
[03:41] <BenM> i'd be OK if they did it first movie that was played
[03:45] <mjg59> Anyone have a machine using ata_piix handy?
[03:48] <Keybuk> BenM: that kind of thing is bad
[03:48] <Keybuk> but const/static tables of strings are ok
[03:49] <Keybuk> because they're not implemented how you think
[03:50] <Keybuk> (though the author really should learn to use char[]  not char*)
[03:50] <Keybuk> I assume you have read Drepper's DSO howto?
[03:54] <robertj> has having ctl+alt+delete open the task manager been discussed?
[03:56] <Keybuk> robertj: what would be the point?
[03:56] <Keybuk> why do you want the task manager?
[03:56] <robertj> Keybuk: well ctl+alt+delte doesn't appear to do anything and windows users might expect it be there...so why not?
[03:56] <zul> ick
[03:56] <Keybuk> *shrug* windows users might expect that any five key presses should crash their computer
[03:56] <Keybuk> but we don't do that
[03:57] <Keybuk> I ask again, why do you need a task manager?
[03:57] <Keybuk> (at this point, I'll point out GNOME doesn't *have* a task manager :p)
[03:58] <robertj> hrmm I always thought there was a nice xkill gui
[03:58] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[03:58] <robertj> and the answer is you don't really want a task manager you want to make things die
[03:58] <Keybuk> if you need to kill an application, click the little "[X] " on it
[03:58] <robertj> Keybuk: ahh, but full-screen games don't always have nice X's
[03:59] <Keybuk> full screen games also tend to steal any and all keyboard presses and shortcuts
[03:59] <Keybuk> e.g. Alt+F4
[03:59] <robertj> Keybuk: and there is no facility for reserving certain keystrokes?
[04:00] <Keybuk> dunno
[04:00] <Keybuk> I must admit that the only thing I had to hand that can go fullscreen (evince) responded just fine to Alt+F4
[04:00] <Keybuk> so maybe that would work for your game-that-keeps-hanging too
[04:01] <Keybuk> if we can reserve keystrokes, I would argue that is the keystroke we should reserve
[04:02] <Keybuk> anyway, bedtime
[04:02] <robertj> Keybuk: nighty
[04:02] <sladen> mjg59: this R52 has both ata_piix and ahci loaded
[04:02] <mjg59> sladen: Which one is being used?
[04:04] <sladen> ata_piix               11012  11
[04:04] <sladen> ahci                   17668  0
[04:04] <mjg59> sladen: Could you stick lspci -vxxx up somewhere?
[04:07] <sladen> mjg59: http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/thinkpad-r52-ahci-lspci_-vxxx.txt
[04:08] <sladen> mjg59: btw, this machine won't boot if a PCMCIA-ide device is inserted on boot
[04:08] <mjg59> Urgh. Why?
[04:08] <sladen> mjg59: the cardbus controller is before the SATA controller in the PCI tree.  It hangs at 'Configure LVM devices'
[04:09] <infinity> Because the devices get reordered, and root goes away?
[04:09] <mjg59> But it's a SATA machine...
[04:09] <mjg59> (or, at least, libata)
[04:10] <sladen> yes, root is on /dev/sda and the pcmcia-ide is  /dev/hdX
[04:10] <mjg59> sladen: What if you boot without usplash?
[04:10] <sladen> mjg59: oh I get lots of debug spew and  hda timeout:  I think
[04:11] <sladen> lemme check
[04:11] <mjg59> sladen: So the LVM autoconf breaks PCMCIA IDE devices?
[04:12] <sladen> mjg59: "Configuring RAID..." hangs until you do Ctrl-C
[04:12] <mjg59> sladen: Doing what?
[04:12] <sladen> and then "Configuring LVM" stops the machine booting any further
[04:13] <sladen> mjg59: "Doing what" ?
[04:13] <mjg59> No output while it's in that state?
[04:29] <sladen> without usplash;  "Setting up RAID" can be Ctrl-C'ed past.  "Setting up LVM Groups" can be SysRq-e 'd past.  Which gives me a working desktop (but not virtual console logins of course)
[04:31] <sladen> mjg59: lots and lots of  "[4294721.098000]  hda: lost interrupt
[04:31] <sladen> [4294971.098000]  hda: lost interrupt
[04:31] <sladen> [4294971.098000]   hda1
[04:31] <sladen> [4294971.098000]   hda:<4>hda: lost interrupt
[04:32] <sladen> ah, I think it's failing to read the partition table because of lost interuppts and hence blocking and not making any progress
[04:32] <mjg59> Right
[04:33] <sladen> now, this doesn't occur if the ide card is inserted after boot
[04:33] <sladen> cat /dev/hda  hangs that process
[04:35] <sladen> with it sitting in an Uninterruptible Sleep
[06:52] <fabbione> morning
[07:00] <bddebian> Hello fabbione
[07:11] <bddebian> Gnight peopleses
[08:36] <pitti> Good morning
[08:37] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[08:37] <fabbione> morning
[08:40] <pitti> hi ajmitch 
[09:22] <jdub> infinity: know about the libdevmapper dupe?
[09:22] <infinity> "dupe"?
[09:23] <infinity> You mean the SONAME bump that was just introduced?
[09:23] <jdub> yeah, and there are still packages that depend on libdevmapper1.01
[09:23] <infinity> I would assume so, since the new one was only just uploaded. :)
[09:25] <fabbione> infinity: as yesterday
[09:25] <fabbione> there shouldn't be many anyway
[09:25] <jdub> just two on my server
[09:25] <infinity> 6 packages.
[09:26] <infinity> Oh, make that 5.
[09:26] <infinity> dmraid, cryptsetup, multipath-tools, lilo, eject
[09:26] <infinity> (LVM has already been uploaded, just isn't built yet)
[09:26] <fabbione> infinity: i take multipath.tools
[09:26] <lifeless> does evms not directly depend ?
[09:27] <infinity> lifeless: Evidently not.
[09:27] <lifeless> cool
[09:27] <lifeless> (I'm just checking cause I don't want my boot broken again ;))
[09:27] <infinity> What I'd like to know is why my dep-waits aren't getting cleared by LP anymore.
[09:27] <infinity> What broke on the last rollout?  *sigh*
[09:28] <dholbach> good morning
[09:29] <jsgotangco> good morning dholbach 
[09:29] <dholbach> jsgotangco: hey jerome
[09:32] <fabbione> infinity: multipath-tools done
[09:36] <dholbach> infinity: how is the test-rebuild machinery going?
[09:36] <infinity> Going and gone.  I'm bugfixing and filing at the end of the week, then trying again on all arches this time. :)
[09:37] <infinity> (Fabio did a really fast Sparc run that was more than enough to keep me busy for a while)
[09:37] <thom> now those are two words i never thought i'd see together
[09:37] <Mithrandir> thom: Fabio and fast or fast and sparc? ;-P
[09:38] <thom> i couldn't possibly comment
[09:38] <fabbione> eheh
[09:39] <fabbione> thom: it took me 36 hours flat to rebuild all of dapper on the T2000 :)
[09:39] <fabbione> thom: screw your opterons
[09:39] <infinity> thom: Sun went and gave him some rather... Beefy hardware.
[09:39] <fabbione> infinity: it's not even top class
[09:39] <infinity> I understand it's rather loud, and is probably causing him testicular cancer, so I'll get the last laugh.
[09:39] <ajmitch> if only I had a decent net connection for those T2000s
[09:39] <fabbione> i can live with testicular cancer.. but i can't suffer the noise
[09:40] <fabbione> infinity: when do you plan to do another round of dapper-autotest?
[09:40] <fabbione> (ans yes please include sparc)
[09:40] <infinity> fabbione: Beginning of next week sounds good to me.
[09:41] <fabbione> infinity: i will be vacation...
[09:41] <fabbione> holidays
[09:41] <fabbione> no work
[09:41] <fabbione> relax
[09:41] <fabbione> enjoy
[09:41] <infinity> It'll be main-only, so your test was probably the only universe test we'll have time to do (unless a community person steps up to do universe again)
[09:41] <infinity> fabbione: Hey, I don't need you to be around when I do it. :)
[09:41] <fabbione> infinity: well i can re-run universe again if you want me to
[09:42] <Mithrandir> infinity: will that interfere with releasing flight-8 next week?
[09:42] <infinity> fabbione: Unless you want to give me access to your beast to do another universe run.
[09:42] <infinity> Mithrandir: Flight-8 scheduled for next Friday, I assume?  (ie: on 10 days or so)
[09:42] <infinity> Mithrandir: If so, we shouldn't step on each others' toes in any irritating ways.
[09:42] <fabbione> infinity: i am not happy to power everything on while i am away because the UPS battery is dead (replacement on the way) and it starts to complain after some hours of work
[09:42] <infinity> s/on 10/in 10/
[09:43] <infinity> fabbione: Ahh, fair enough.  Well, if you want to do another universe run "whenever", I'm sure MOTU would appreciate having access to the logs.
[09:43] <Mithrandir> infinity: yeah, since I'm gone on Wednesday due to people wandering around in the streets waving flags and dressed in national costumes, dresses and suits, Thursday won't be good.
[09:43] <fabbione> infinity: if i get the battery before friday (unlikely) i will give you access and you can play while i am away
[09:43] <infinity> fabbione: My hands will be full fixing main, so I can't do much there (but I also don't want you to go out of your way either... Only do it if it's "easy")
[09:44] <fabbione> infinity: running the buildds here is dead easy.. the problem is the power to the rack atm
[09:44] <fabbione> infinity: that's the only thing that concerns me since i am traveling away
[09:44] <infinity> Do you need me to ship you some uranium?
[09:44] <fabbione> infinity: specially because the SUN need access to the SAN to manage that load
[09:44] <fabbione> infinity: that would do thanks :)
[09:45] <fabbione> and the cache batteries for the SAN cache are dead.. so even a small spike might make the entire system unuseable
[09:45] <fabbione> and trash the disks
[09:45] <infinity> ajmitch: I'll see about seperating main from universe from he logs of the last run, so I can publish the universe logs for you guys.
[09:46] <ajmitch> infinity: that would be great, thanks
[09:46] <infinity> ajmitch: It's pretty much entirely slipped my mind due to my TODO list growing faster than an erection on a 12 year old.
[09:47] <fabbione> ahaha
[09:47] <infinity> (Unfortunately, my TODO doesn't exhibit other symptoms to extend the metaphor, since it would then have finished 5 seconds after growing..)
[09:47] <ajmitch> that's an interesting metaphor :)
[09:47] <pitti> slomo: yay, two vulns in avahi which were fixed in 0.6.10; one of them is remote code execution
[09:48] <slomo> pitti: uh oh... ok, i'll get it updated (or the fixes backported) asap
[09:48] <pitti> slomo: oh, would you? thanks a million
[09:49] <pitti> slomo: the new version should be fine as long as it only fixes bugs (I didn't check)
[09:50] <pitti> slomo: http://0pointer.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/trunk/docs/NEWS?root=avahi is the changelog
[09:50] <fabbione> zakame: ping?
[09:51] <slomo> pitti: i know... i followed the development ;) but i remember a soname bump somewhere... let me check
[09:51] <pitti> slomo: oh, it's said to be compatible to older versions
[09:51] <infinity> ajmitch: If I just publish the logs as a big MBOX, can you deal with that?  They're sitting in an IMAP folder right now.
[09:51] <pitti> slomo: in that case we shuold backport, but let's hope the 0.6.x branch is stable :)
[09:52] <ajmitch> sure, I sort through most of everything else that way
[09:52] <pitti> slomo: CVE-2006-2288 is the DoS, CVE-2006-2289 the buffer overflow (for the changelog)
[09:53] <infinity> ajmitch: Okay, cool.  Can you poke me and remind me again if I don't do it in a day or two?
[09:53] <infinity> ajmitch: release crunch is making me a scatter-brain, so reminders are good.
[09:53] <ajmitch> yep
[09:54] <sivang> morning all
[09:56] <pitti> sivang: hey Mr. ubuntu-dev, good morning! :)
[09:56] <ajmitch> hi sivang 
[09:56] <infinity> If nothing builds in the next 30 mins... Cope! ;)
[09:56] <slomo> pitti: ok, no soname bumps :) i'll update, ask for a UVF exception and upload later today or tomorrow :)
[10:03] <sivang> pitti: hey there :)
[10:05] <slomo> hi sivang :) so everything went fine yesterday? congrats :)
[10:15] <sivang> slomo: indeed, thank you :)
[10:16] <slomo> pitti: avahi updated... now i only need the uvf exception approved and can upload then... but i have to leave now for some hours, i'll upload when i'm back :) bbl
[10:16] <dholbach> mvo: happy hug day - I think bug 43747 is a dup of one of yours, but I couldn't find it
[10:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43747 in gnome-control-center "proxy configuration is confusing" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43747
[10:17] <mvo> dholbach: let me have a look
[10:18] <mvo> dholbach: well, not really. the difference is that if he uses gksu, he will have a correct proxy
[10:19] <mvo> dholbach: I think his suggestions to add something like "per-user proxy configuation" (or something like this) is the most sensible
[10:19] <dholbach> mvo: ok, then you can tell him that's it's a design decision :-)
[10:21] <mvo> dholbach: I can comment on the bug, but its not a descion descision :)
[10:22] <dholbach> mvo: you can tell them it is :-p
[10:22] <dholbach> can some kernel and laptop experts join #ubuntu-bugs?
[10:22] <dholbach> and everybody else is welcome to join too!
[10:22] <dholbach> it's the hug day! and if you want to get your bugs triaged - this is the time :-)
[10:23] <jsgotangco> ohhh
[10:23] <dholbach> and if you want to have (i'm not going to say who used that term) some 'minions' around you - this it the time to help people to triage bugs better :-)
[10:25] <infinity> Sounds like a sfllaw term to me. :)
[10:26] <infinity> Not commenting is just as incriminating. :)
[10:26] <Treenaks> dholbach: Are there X experts in -bugs? :)
[10:26] <Treenaks> dholbach: (or will there be, tonight)?
[10:26] <fabbione> Treenaks: me?
[10:26] <fabbione> oh tonight.. no
[10:27] <infinity> Okay, I just did some buildd mangling and then a mass-give-back.
[10:27] <infinity> If any of you have a build/fix that MUST GET THROUGH RIGHT NOW, ARGH, then poke me and I can push your build to the top of the queue.
[10:37] <Znarl> We are preforming network testing in the data centre for the next hour.  This may result in a small amount of connectivity problems to the data centre.
[10:38] <freeflying> pitti: ping
[10:42] <pitti> hi freeflying 
[10:42] <freeflying> pitti: some issue about kde-i18n-zhtw, many pos of zhtw not in lanuage-pack-kde-zh
[10:44] <caleb-> pitti: language-pack-kde-zh has only 3 pos for zh_TW(Taiwan)
[10:44] <caleb-> pitti: and language-pack-kde-z has no option for Traditional Chinese...
[10:44] <caleb-> pitti: However, it is ok in Debian.
[10:46] <pitti> caleb-: I don't understand, Debian does not have language packs
[10:46] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: can you check if 39472 and 39473 are fixed and if so, close them?
[10:46] <caleb-> pitti: Debian kde 3.5.2 has those pos for zh_TW.
[10:47] <caleb-> pitti: but ubuntu has only zh_CN.
[10:47] <pitti> caleb-: language-pack-zh-base has 78 PO files for zh_TW
[10:47] <pitti> ah, KDE
[10:48] <pitti> caleb-: language-pack-kde-zh-base: 313 PO files -- that seems fine?
[10:49] <pitti> caleb-: ah, you didn't look into -base, I suppose; l-p-kde-zh only has updates (and should actually be empty in dapper)
[10:49] <yzcie> language-pack-zh-base in Breezy has only 3 PO files for zh_TW...
[10:49] <pitti> yzcie: these are only updates from Rosetta; it seems that translators just touched these three for Breezy
[10:50] <yzcie> pitti, so how can i get the other po files for zh_TW ?
[10:52] <caleb-> pitti: those pos are zh_CN only, not zh_TW...
[10:52] <caleb-> pitti: Debian has zh_TW pos.
[10:52] <pitti> yzcie: as I said, they are in language-pack-kde-zh-base
[10:53] <caleb-> pitti: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=language-pack-kde-zh-base&version=dapper&arch=all&page=1&number=all # pos in language-pack-kde-zh-base
[10:55] <yzcie> pitti: language-pack-kde-zh-base-20051011/data/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES/ has only 3 po files.
[10:56] <pitti> yzcie: that's the breezy version
[10:56] <pitti> yzcie: the dapper version has plenty
[10:57] <pitti> caleb-: this page seems out of date; just look in the debs on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/language-pack-kde-zh-base/, dapper has plenty of zh_TW files
[10:57] <infinity> Can someone who knows something about what/when/where/why we automount certain detected Windows partitions look at this bug and reassin it?  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/evms/+bug/41020
[10:57] <infinity> (It's obviously not an evms bug and was misfired by the submitter)
[10:57] <tepsipakki> uh, is there a way to unduplicate a bug?
[10:57] <infinity> tepsipakki: Dupe it with a blank entry.
[10:57] <pitti> caleb-: KDE was also imported into Rosetta a few days ago, breezy will get the applicable ones in the next update as well
[10:58] <tepsipakki> infinity: hah, that did it, thanks
[10:58] <ivoks> infinity: will there be another series of uploads from debian sid for universe packages?
[10:59] <caleb-> pitti: Mmmm, the deb looks ok. Thank you!
[10:59] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'm not allowed to look at that bug
[10:59] <infinity> ivoks: Only those that are requested as UVF exceptions by MOTU.  We're not doing any mass imports until edgy opens.
[11:00] <infinity> Oh, for the...
[11:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: The submitter marked it "private", not wonder no one's triaged it.
[11:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: Try now.
[11:00] <yzcie> pitti: thank you :)
[11:01] <infinity> Mithrandir: I suspect it's a bogus bug anyway, but I have no idea what automounting magic we do, or if it could indeed fail, so whatever. :)
[11:01] <ivoks> infinity: ok, then i guess mine will get uploaded :) thanks
[11:01] <Mithrandir> infinity: debian-installer is the piece which sets it up automatically.  He's probably unselected it in the UI.
[11:02] <infinity> Mithrandir: Care to tell him that in a comment on a reassign? :)
[11:02] <Mithrandir> infinity: willdo
[11:03] <infinity> Given that evms probably doesn't even have any default subscribers, I suspect the only people who can even see the bug are LP admins, and I'm only one of those for comical reasons best not discussed.
[11:06] <Mithrandir> we should trick Corry into subscribing to it, since he's upstream.
[11:06] <Mithrandir> and he's even commented on a bug in lp.
[11:07] <Znarl> Network testing has finished.  
[11:07] <Treenaks> keyweed_: 
[11:07] <fabbione> Znarl: danke
[11:07] <lifeless> infinity: that should be a bug
[11:17] <infinity> lifeless: Do you have any clue what's up with https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/evms/+bug/38924 ?
[11:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38924 in evms "breezy->dapper: My lvm devices have disappeared" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[11:27] <zakame> hi all
[11:28] <zakame> fabbione: pong :)
[11:28] <fabbione> zakame: hey dude
[11:28] <fabbione> zakame: i am preparing some work for you
[11:28] <fabbione> zakame: do you have time to discuss about it?
[11:28] <zakame> fabbione: ooh! :D I was just about to ask you about that :D
[11:28] <zakame> sure
[11:28] <fabbione> zakame: ok
[11:28] <fabbione> let's take this to /msg
[11:29] <zakame> ok
[11:31] <jsgotangco> hmm hrmmm
[11:33] <infinity> dholbach: I expect hugs when I get back.  LOTS OF THEM.
[11:34] <StevenK> Heh
[11:34] <StevenK> Hrm. I think I managed to close a bug today too.
[11:34] <dholbach> StevenK: join the party in #ubuntu-bugs! :)
[11:34] <infinity> StevenK: What's the matter?  Jealous? :)
[11:35] <StevenK> infinity: Duh! :-)
[11:38] <infinity> Mithrandir: Make syck build on amd64, and I'll love you forever (and dholbach will hug you!)
[11:39] <dholbach> Mithrandir: Yeah!
[11:39] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'm looking at it, but ended up accidentially gdb-ing emacs instead of syck. :-P
[12:08] <infinity> Mithrandir: I often get the two confused myself.
[12:13] <pitti> Diziet: is your parallel printer automatically detected in gnome-cups-add (if not yet configured)?
[12:13] <jsgotangco> hey sabdfl 
[12:14] <sabdfl> moin moin
[12:14] <Diziet> pitti: I don't know, it's upstairs connected to the house server atm.  Would you like me to try it ?  Can I connect it with dapper booted and run gnome-cups-manager ?
[12:15] <pitti> Diziet: that would rock
[12:15] <pitti> Diziet: i. e. the printer must not yet be configured in cups
[12:15] <pitti> Diziet: we have many reports that parallel printers work in principle, but gnome-cups-add does not show them in the 'automatically detected' list
[12:15] <pitti> Diziet: I have some things I'd like to try and check out, but I don't have a parallel printer
[12:16] <pitti> Diziet: do you have IRC upstairs?
[12:17] <dholbach> hey sabdfl - happy hug day!
[12:18] <dholbach> pitti: do you know if the millions-of-floppy-devices bug was fixed already?
[12:18] <pitti> dholbach: in dapper? I'm not aware of any grave problems
[12:18] <pitti> dholbach: and ENOFLOPPY here :/
[12:18] <pitti> dholbach: in breezy they mostly resulted from the pmount bug which was fixed in b-updates ages ago
[12:18] <Diziet> pitti: I'm just downstairs again, looking for a spare parallel cable.
[12:18] <zul> hey sabdfl 
[12:18] <dholbach> pitti: from #ubuntu-bugs
 anyone know why I might be seeing multiple non-existant floppy disk drives?
 ^in nautilus
[12:19] <pitti> dholbach: ah, that one
[12:19] <pitti> dholbach: I joined #u-b
[12:19] <Diziet> NB this printer is very old.  1988?
[12:20] <pitti> Diziet: hm, then it might not yet auto-identify itself yet; dmesg should have a line with parport0 with the printer name if it already advertises itself
[12:23] <Diziet> I think I have another one which is somewhat newer.
[12:23] <Diziet> Let me try with this one first.
[12:26] <Diziet> [4294686.868000]  parport: PnPBIOS parport detected.
[12:26] <Diziet> [4294686.868000]  parport0: PC-style at 0x378 (0x778), irq 7, dma 3 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,ECP,DMA] 
[12:26] <Diziet> But no printer name.
[12:26] <Diziet> gnome-cups-manager doesn't show it.
[12:27] <zakame> hi all! happy hug day! :D
[12:28] <fabbione> Diziet: that's normal kernel logging for detecting the parport, nothing new about it
[12:28] <fabbione> Diziet: there is no probing of what is connected after the parport
[12:30] <Diziet> Let me try with this less prehistoric printer I found under a pile of dust.
[12:32] <Diziet> fabbione: pitti seemed to think that there was a way for the printer to report its name and that this would show in dmesg (if the printer supported it).
[12:32] <pitti> Diziet: yes, it's a protocol called ISO-1284 or so; and it apparently worked fine in breezy
[12:32] <fabbione> Diziet: i have never seen it.. the kernel doesn't drive the printer (not on parport)
[12:33] <pitti> Diziet: I heard a report that modprobing the 'ppdev' module fixed it; maybe you can try that?
[12:33] <Diziet> I have a breezy install on this machine too, so I could try that.
[12:33] <Diziet> OK, sure.
[12:33] <pitti> I still don't know whether this is a cups or a kernel regression
[12:34] <Diziet> Err, have you looked at the code in CUPS ?  Is it using ppdev to speak to the printer directly ?
[12:34] <pitti> Diziet: also, does 'lpinfo -v' show a parallel printer (unnamed) at all?
[12:36] <Diziet> Not AFAICT.  I know it's plugged in because the printer got reset during the bootup.,
[12:36] <pitti> Diziet: hm, 'lp' module is loaded?
[12:36] <Diziet> modprobe lp fixed the output from lpinfo -v
[12:36] <Diziet> direct parallel:/dev/lp0
[12:36] <pitti> ah, that's it
[12:36] <Diziet> And various similar.
[12:37] <pitti> Diziet: the missing lp module was a bug recently fixed in ubiquity
[12:37] <pitti> Diziet: so you seem to have the same problem - printer is detected, but without a name
[12:37] <pitti> Diziet: so, it would be interesting to see now whether it works with a breezy kernel
[12:38] <Diziet> Yes, this dapper install was last updated some time last week I think.
[12:38] <Diziet> Let me reboot into breezy.
[12:38] <Diziet> Do you have any info about which printers we would expect to support this protocol ?  The one I'm trying now is an Epson Stylus 800+.
[12:39] <Diziet> Previously a Star LC10 colour.
[12:39] <pitti> Diziet: no, unfortunately not, but from what I can tell, pretty much all resonably modern ones should do
[12:39] <Diziet> Some would argue that `reasonably modern' doesn't cover any parallel port printer :-).
[12:39] <pitti> Diziet: 'modern' in the domain of parallel printers :)
[12:40] <Diziet> OK, this one has loaded lp properly.
[12:41] <pitti> lp module is a different bug, but that's the easy one and sorted
[12:41] <pitti> Diziet: does dmesg | grep parport reveal the printer name now?
[12:41] <Diziet> No.
[12:42] <Diziet> And gnome-cups-manager doesn't seem to see it.
[12:42] <Diziet> I think this is my newest printer.
[12:42] <pitti> ok, then it seems your printer can't advertise itself
[12:42] <pitti> Diziet: thank you for the time for checking
[12:42] <Diziet> There's the LJ6 upstairs but I don't want to carry it down.
[12:42] <Diziet> Sure.
[12:42] <fabbione> Diziet: what if you just try to print?
[12:42] <fabbione> does that work?
[12:43] <Diziet> fabbione: I'm pretty sure it would.
[12:43] <pitti> fabbione: printing works (in the bug reports), you just have to manually configure the printer
[12:43] <Diziet> I mean, if I echo things to /dev/lp.
[12:43] <Diziet> The alleged bug is lack of autodetection.
[12:44] <Diziet> This breezy has about four test printers set up from various earlier experiments but I don't think that should make any difference.
[12:47] <pitti> Diziet: g-cups-add only shows printers that are not yet configured
[12:49] <Diziet> pitti: None of these were on the parallel port.
[12:50] <Diziet> And none of them were the same kind of printer as these two I just tried.
[01:01] <Kinnison> dholbach: How is the new g-p-m holding up for you?
[01:02] <dholbach> Kinnison: looks very good
[01:02] <dholbach> Kinnison: you made the world a better place - remind me of giving out drinks in Paris! :-)
[01:15] <lifeless> infinity: possibly
[01:18] <fabbione> mjg59, sladen: ping?
[01:26] <Seveas> Kinnison, should we kidnap you to make sure you come to paris?
[01:26] <Kinnison> Seveas: I'll be busy working on soyuz again by the time the paris conference happens
[01:27] <Kinnison> Seveas: and with moving house, I can't really afford to take time off to attend as a holiday
[01:27] <Seveas> ah, well too bad 
[01:27] <ogra> yes, it is
[01:29] <Kinnison> Treenaks: good luck :-)
[01:29] <Kinnison> ogra: You kinda have to :-)
[01:30] <ogra> Kinnison, and my moving stretches over several months :)
[01:31] <Kinnison> :-)
[01:34] <Mithrandir> seb128: is there a way to add an applet to a panel using the CLI?
 seb128: is there a way to add an applet to a panel using the CLI?
[01:37] <giftnudel> seb128_ ^^
[01:37] <seb128_> Mithrandir: no
[01:37] <Mithrandir> seb128_: ok. :-/
[01:37] <seb128_> maybe after the SoC of this year ....
[01:38] <Mithrandir> it'd be nice to have, since I want to do that in my "restore setup after install" script.
[01:40] <ogra> you could do horrible ugly fiddling in the users .gnome2/panel2.d/default/launchers/ with a .desktop file but i'm sure thats not suggested at all 
[01:40] <ogra> and might have strange sideeffects
[01:40] <seb128_> changing user datas that way it not a good idea imho
[01:41] <ogra> yep
[01:41] <seb128_> and changing the panel config require to change some gconf keys too
[01:41] <ogra> thats what i thought, thus the sentence about the sideeffects :) 
[01:42] <ogra> its surely the wrong way, but its *a* way
[01:44] <janimo> slomo: hi, do you have any pending uploads for abiword?
[01:45] <janimo> it will need a rebuild these days and if you already have something queued no need to do that explicitely.If not ok, just wanted to know
[01:46] <nomed> hi all , hi janimo 
[01:46] <janimo> nomed: hi
[01:46] <janimo> nomed: have you and jmak talked about the default gtkrc?
[01:47] <janimo> he sent me one but has not reference to your icon theme stuff
[01:47] <nomed> janimo, talking yes
[01:47] <nomed> janimo, that'll be just one echo :)
[01:47] <janimo> it's better for you two to make a theme you both agree upon before I upload
[01:47] <nomed> janimo, yep
[01:47] <janimo> yes, but I prefer someone else do that echo ;)
[01:47] <nomed> i like the blue one ..
[01:47] <nomed> but the menu text is black
[01:48] <janimo> so I just take it and upload it and not mess with it more
[01:48] <nomed> janimo, ok :)
[01:48] <janimo> let's discuss this in the meeting today if you are there
[01:48] <nomed> i'll be
[01:48] <janimo> ok 1:30 hours from now
[01:48] <nomed> dholbach, around ?
[01:50] <ogra> nomed, he's lunching
[01:50] <kgoetz> sivang: bug reports are always good when your starting imo
[01:50] <nomed> ok .. thanks ogra 
[01:52] <sivang> kgoetz: yes, there's one I don't understand why happens, unless that user doesn't have a cdrom at all - malone #43941
[01:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43941 in hubackup "KeyError: 'storage.cdrom.cdr'" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43941
[01:53] <sivang> kgoetz: do you happen to have a system without a cdrom at all you might be able to try it out on?
[01:53] <dholbach> nomed: yes
[01:53] <kgoetz> sivang: i can build one. testing ubuntu bugs is a saner thing then it was goin to be used for (LFS)
[01:53] <nomed> hi dholbach 
[01:54] <dholbach> hello
[01:54] <nomed> did u still get any decision about tangerine and "tango-apps" pkge ?
[01:55] <dholbach> nomed: andreasn wrote to the mailing list - i want to have the discussion over there
[01:55] <nomed> dholbach, me too ..
[01:55] <dholbach> nomed: and i'd be happy if you and the xubuntu guys would join in there
[01:55] <nomed> i wrote a mail to the mail list ..
[01:55] <nomed> i answered you
[01:55] <nomed> me and andreasn discussed already this ..
[01:56] <nomed> and we are fine with both solutions ..
[01:56] <nomed> now i guess it depends on pkger :)
[01:56] <dholbach> maybe janimo and Gloubiboulga should have a look too
[01:56] <dholbach> after that we should go and prepare a list of stuff that needs to be replaced
[01:57] <dholbach> janimo: it's a thread on ubuntu-art about tango and tangerine
[01:57] <nomed> janimo, i paste the link to the mail
[01:57] <dholbach> thanks guys
[01:57] <sivang> kgoetz: hmm, building one just for that? :-) no need, we better find someone to do so, maybe the original bug reporter. I don't want you to over bother you with stuff like that as you have better things to finish before :) and you're feedback has already been helpful.
[01:57] <dholbach> i'll be off to my pizza and follow up on the mailing list
[01:57] <janimo> dholbach: enjoy
[01:58] <kgoetz> sivang: it's a bit of a novelty box (scsi gear inside), i don't use it a lot, so any use is good
[01:58] <dholbach> janimo: merci
[01:58] <nomed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-May/001247.html
[01:59] <ogra> exxample-content, eh ? 
[01:59] <janimo> ogra, :)
[01:59] <janimo> some are broken since theer are no default handlers for them in xubutu
[01:59] <janimo> but some are not
[02:00] <janimo> ogra, I think the language support packs for the top 10 languages will fit as well
[02:00] <ogra> pfft
[02:00] <ogra> i'm happy if i can keep english :)
[02:00] <janimo> unless I'll need to add gnome libs for some apps :(
[02:01] <kgoetz> sivang: are you interested in having it tested on xfce or just Gnome?
[02:02] <sivang> kgoetz: sure thing, where ever it runs :)
[02:03] <kgoetz> ok :)
[02:05] <kgoetz> sivang: hubackup is dapper only?
[02:07] <sivang> kgoetz: targetted for it, but backporting should be fairly easy.  
[02:08] <kgoetz> I'm just wondering what cd to use to install *tries to find a cdrw*
[02:08] <sivang> kgoetz: well, if you can use dapper, then do, installing it on previous releases woudl require a bit of control file tweaking and a rebuild
[02:18] <mjg59> fabbione: Hi
[02:18] <fabbione> mjg59: hi.. 
[02:18] <fabbione> mjg59: i saw you and paul giving love to i810 and via...
[02:18] <fabbione> i was wondering what is the status of the 2 drivers
[02:18] <fabbione> they both have quite a bunch of bugs open
[02:20] <mjg59> fabbione: I don't have any modern via hardware. I just uploaded a couple of fixes
[02:20] <fabbione> mjg59: ok
[02:20] <mjg59> I believe that via is roughly up to date with upstream in terms of hardware support, but I haven't touched some of the other code
[02:22] <Mithrandir> hmm, we seem to need a d-i upload
[02:31] <zul> heylo
[02:47] <kagou> hi
[02:47] <kgoetz> hi
[03:06] <pvanhoof> https://launchpad.net/products/network-manager/+filebug
[03:06] <pvanhoof> I can't file a bug here
[03:06] <pvanhoof> yet there's a packaging problem
[03:06] <pvanhoof> not an upstream problem, afaik (if I look at the code0
[03:07] <pvanhoof> May 10 14:59:19 localhost dhcdbd: Failed to initialise D-Bus service.
[03:07] <pvanhoof> May 10 14:59:42 localhost dhcdbd: dbus_svc_init: dbus_bus_request_name failed: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied Connection ":1.5" is not allowed to own the service "com.redhat.dhcp" due to security policies in the configuration file
[03:07] <pvanhoof> May 10 14:59:43 localhost dhcdbd: Failed to initialise D-Bus service.
[03:07] <pvanhoof> where do I submit this bug?
[03:11] <pvanhoof> reboot for retry, please let me know when I' m back
[03:20] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+filebug
[03:20] <ogra> pvanhoof, ^^^
[03:20] <pvanhoof> ok
[03:20] <ogra> dont file against a product, file against a package in a distro ;)
[03:21] <pvanhoof> ogra, you still have the paste url?
[03:21] <pvanhoof> I just rebooted, forgot to keep a ptr
[03:21] <ogra> which one ? 
[03:21] <pvanhoof> didn't I put it here?
[03:21] <pvanhoof> oh
[03:21] <pvanhoof> hoping at #gnome-hackers they still have it :)
[03:21] <ogra> ah, you mean https://launchpad.net/products/network-manager/+filebug ?
[03:22] <pvanhoof> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13751
[03:22] <pvanhoof> no, that one :)
[03:22] <ogra> oh, ah, a pastebot url you mean
[03:27] <pvanhoof> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/44009
[03:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44009 in network-manager "When installing NetworkManager, things don't work" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[03:35] <seb128> Kinnison: around?
[03:36] <Kinnison> seb128: yep
[03:36] <Kinnison> seb128: Just got back from lunch, what can I do for you?
[03:37] <seb128> Kinnison: https://launchpad.net/bugs/43872
[03:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43872 in gnome-session "Logout dialog signals gdm to perform p-m actions" [Critical,Confirmed]  
[03:37] <Kinnison> seb128: yep, seen it, what can I do for you?
[03:37] <seb128> Kinnison: do you have some code handy than we can copy to get the capabilities from gpm?
[03:37] <Kinnison> Not really
[03:37] <Kinnison> give me a sec to check g-p-m's codebase
[03:38] <seb128> because I don't think any of desktop team members known anything about gpm
[03:38] <Kinnison> It's all dbusness
[03:38] <seb128> grumpf
[03:38] <seb128> gnome-session doesn't use dbus atm
[03:39] <Kinnison> It's fairly easy stuff
[03:39] <Kinnison> let me see if I can find a useful example for you
[03:39] <seb128> thank you
[03:39] <Kinnison> aha, grab the source for gpm and look at src/gpm-prefs.c
[03:39] <Kinnison> the method gpm_dbus_method_bool might be helpful for you
[03:41] <Kinnison> If you need more from me, just yell
[03:41] <seb128> ok, thank you :)
[03:42] <ogra> g-p-m should really have something like gnome-screensaver-command to circumvent dbus where needed
[03:42] <infinity> Riddell: kdebase is FTBFS all over.  plsfixkthx.
[03:50] <bddebian> Morning peoples
[03:50] <kgoetz> hi bddebian: 
[03:50] <kgoetz> ;) you cant escape
[03:51] <bddebian> Hello kgoetz
[03:51] <bddebian> What do I need to escape from?
[03:51] <kgoetz> me ;D. (i'd be trying to escape form me)
[03:51] <bddebian> Heh :-)
[03:51] <kgoetz> :)
[03:54] <ivoks> ogra: or not suspend computer if wget lasts longer than "Put computer to sleep..." :)
[04:02] <Mithrandir> Kamion: if you can do a d-i upload when you get on top of things, that'd be wonderful.
[04:03] <elmo> Kamion: how safe is ubiquity manual partitioning atm?
[04:03] <elmo> (and what's a big <!> mean next to a partition?)
[04:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, I thought I'd already bumped it to the new ABI
[04:04] <Kamion> elmo: should be ok provided you're using at least 0.99.76
[04:05] <elmo> hmm, I'm on flight-7
[04:05] <Kamion> elmo: in gparted?
[04:05] <elmo> yah
[04:05] <Mithrandir> Kamion: at least this morning's daily was a bit bumpy due to it.
[04:05] <Kamion> er, don't recall offhand, might be either currently-mounted or detected-errors
[04:05] <ogra> elmo, i usually do manuall partitioning in my tests, worked reliable here the last 3 or 4 isos i tested
[04:07] <Kamion> pre-0.99.76 sometimes formatted partitions despite you not telling it to
[04:07] <elmo> Kamion: !
[04:08] <ogra> ah, i always format them all
[04:08] <elmo> and I'm using 0.99.74.  SWEET
[04:08] <ogra> so this didnt happen to me yet
[04:08] <Kamion> elmo: upgrade ubiquity* first
[04:08] <Kamion> it'll tell you if it's going to do that in the confirmation message, mind you, it won't just do it silently
[04:09] <Kamion> so not as bad as it could've been
[04:13] <elmo> cute, ubiquity is stateful
[04:16] <elmo> Kamion: can I flush the pending operations in gparted?
[04:16] <lmanul> Kinnison: ping ?
[04:16] <Kinnison> lmanul: pong
[04:16] <lmanul> Hi, I'm the guy for the logout dialog :)
[04:16] <Kinnison> Hello
[04:17] <lmanul> Kinnison: seb128 forwarded me your advice about g-p-m and dbus
[04:17] <lmanul> This works for testing whether the hardware can sleep/hibernate
[04:17] <lmanul> What about actually hibernating/sleeping ?
[04:17] <Kamion> elmo: only by going forward, I think
[04:17] <Kamion> we sort of ran out of space for stuff on that page
[04:18] <lmanul> Kinnison: For the moment, clicking on Sleep for example runs gdm_set_logout_action (GDM_LOGOUT_ACTION_SUSPEND);
[04:19] <lmanul> but this should be done through dbus/g-p-m as well, right ?
[04:19] <Kinnison> lmanul: Essentially you make the suspend call over dbus and it'll suspend there and then
[04:19] <ogra> lmanul, what about taking the g-p-m tray applet, ripping off the gui and adding commandline options to it for suspend/hibernate ... you could just call it as g-p-m-command --suspend then
[04:20] <ogra> Kinnison, ^^
[04:20] <Kinnison> ogra: It really should signal the g-p-m over dbus
[04:20] <ogra> (might be easier than to have to add dbus to gnome-session)
[04:20] <Kinnison> It needs it to query anyway
[04:20] <tepsipakki> could libpam-krb5_1.2.0-3 be synced from debian? it fixes many bugs in 1.2.0-1 
[04:21] <elmo> should ubiquity maybe disable the screensaver?
[04:21] <ogra> elmo, yes, it should send pokes on a regular base to gnome-screensaver
[04:21] <lmanul> Well, actually we're preparing to add dbus deps into gnome-session, yeah :)
[04:21] <lmanul> Kinnison: hmm, I'm not familiar with dbus, is there a single-line function for this ?
[04:22] <lmanul> (like in gpm-power.c or so ?)
[04:22] <ogra> elmo, it isnt integrated with xscreensaver though
[04:22] <Kinnison> lmanul: I'm just looking
[04:22] <lmanul> Kinnison: Thanks a lot :)
[04:22] <Kamion> elmo: it does
[04:22] <Kamion> ogra: yes it is
[04:23] <elmo> Kamion: doesn't seem to?
[04:23] <ogra> Kamion, ah, k
[04:23] <Kamion> espresso (0.99.55) dapper; urgency=low
[04:23] <Kamion>   * GTK frontend:
[04:23] <Kamion>     - Add support for disabling xscreensaver as well as gnome-screensaver
[04:23] <Kamion>       (thanks, Daniele Favara; closes: Malone #40095).
[04:23] <elmo> I just had the screensaver kick in on me while it was creating partitions
[04:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40095 in ubiquity "from poke_gnome_screensaver to turn_off_screensaver" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40095
[04:23] <lmanul> Kinnison: this is quite critical, and I'm a bit lost in the g-p-m code :)
[04:23] <Kamion> elmo: hmm, never seen that, bug me
[04:23] <Kamion> could be that the main ubiquity process is blocked talking to gparted at the time
[04:23] <ogra> argh
[04:23] <Kinnison> lmanul: right, you see the dbus_g_proxy_call
[04:24] <ogra> you switched to --deactivate ? 
[04:24] <Kamion> and thus can't poke g-s-
[04:24] <Kamion> s
[04:24] <Kinnison> lamont: if you call that with proxy,"Suspend",&error,G_TYPE_INVALID,G_TYPE_INVALID then it should work
[04:24] <Kinnison> lmanul: ^^
[04:24] <Kamion> ogra: only for xscreensaver-command which doesn't have --disable
[04:24] <lmanul> Kinnison: Great ! That's all I need, thanks a lot :)
[04:24] <Kinnison> lamont: sorry, bad tab completion
[04:24] <Kinnison> lamont: test it obviously :-)
[04:24] <Kamion> --disable was just a typo
[04:24] <Kinnison> lmanul: ^^
[04:24] <Kinnison> lamont: sorry
[04:24] <ogra> Kamion, it will stay deactivated if you kill ubiquity then
[04:25] <Kamion> ogra: not according to the xscreensaver-command documentation
[04:25] <ogra> hmm, right
[04:25] <Kamion> xscreensaver-command --deactivate is equivalent to gnome-screensaver-command --poke
[04:26] <elmo> Kamion: #44108
[04:26] <elmo> or #44018 even, dyslexia rules ko
[04:27] <ogra> bug 44108
[04:27] <ogra> :P
[04:27] <ogra> bug 44018
[04:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44018 in ubiquity "screensaver kicked in while ubiquity was creating partitions" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44018
[04:28] <ogra> elmo, would be nice to note which screensaver daemon that was :)
[04:28] <Kamion> ogra: irrelevant
[04:28] <elmo> ogra: I've no idea - it's a flight 7 live CD
[04:28] <Kamion> it's almost certainly a ubiquity problem
[04:28] <ogra> ah,k 
[04:29] <Lathiat> hey guys - has there been any discussion on putting the removable devices in side a submenu of places?
[04:31] <elmo> hmm, sweet
[04:31] <elmo> "Error 22" from grub
[04:32] <Lathiat> grumble, RB crashes importing my music, i attach strace and it just freezes instead
[04:34] <lmanul> Kinnison: can the above method work for "Halt" and "Reboot" as well ?
[04:34] <Kinnison> lmanul: Erm, No, Suspend and Hibernate only
[04:35] <lmanul> Kinnison: Ok, thanks
[04:35] <Kinnison> Oh hang on
[04:35] <Kinnison> There's 'Shutdown' too, but no Reboot
[04:35] <lmanul> Shutdown ? Ok, so I guess I should handle Reboot with GDM
[04:35] <Kinnison> I assume because g-p-m having a reboot action would be a bit bonkers
[04:39] <elmo> Kamion: hmm, any idea about this error 22 stuff?  I assume that means the grub on /dev/hda is pointing at the wrong place?
[04:40] <Treenaks> error 22, does that mean it can't find stage1.5/stage2?
[04:41] <elmo> 22 : No such partition
[04:41] <elmo>      This error is returned if a partition is requested in the device
[04:41] <elmo>      part of a device- or full file name which isn't on the selected
[04:41] <elmo>      disk.
[04:42] <elmo> this is a linux laptop, I'm reinstalling with ubiquity (but with a different hard drive layout), I have a feeling it saw grub was installed and didn't reinstall it taking into account the new partition layout
[04:47] <Kamion> ubiquity always tries to reinstall grub
[04:47] <Kamion> it might have crashed before doing that though; crashes in install.py aren't always noticed currently, unfortunately
[04:47] <Kamion> /var/log/installer/syslog should record the crash if so
[04:48] <elmo> in the new root FS?
[04:48] <Kamion> yes
[04:48] <elmo> I don't have a /var/log/installer in there
[04:52] <elmo> shall I try the install again and not reboot this time?
[04:54] <Kamion> definitely crashed then, it copies the log as nearly the last thing it does
[04:54] <Kamion> yes please
[04:54] <Kamion> I'll try to fix it to notice install.py crashes properly
[04:54] <Kamion> (been on my list for a while, there are associated bugs already)
[04:55] <Kamion> Mithrandir: do you have any unpushed casper changes? I have some stuff to blat in your direction
[04:55] <lmanul> Kinnison: I have a last question (sorry for bothering again) : what is this DBUS_BUS_SESSION thing ? It is not #defined anywhere in the g-p-m code ?...
[04:57] <Kinnison> lmanul: it's a define from the dbus headers which indicates a connection to the session bus rather than the system bus
[04:58] <lmanul> Kinnison: Ah ok, so by linking to the dbus libs it should be all right. Thanks again :)
[05:03] <Kinnison> no problem
[05:04] <elmo> 2:0.99+1.0pre7try2+cvs20060117-0ubuntu7
[05:05] <elmo> best version number EVAR
[05:06] <thom> damn, someone's beaten my firefox effort
[05:07] <ogra> sounds suspicious like mplayer :)
[05:08] <pitti> -revertedto... is still missing
[05:09] <ogra> we're not final yet ;)
[05:11] <mvo> -forrealthistime is my favorite
[05:12] <ogra> that comes after -revertedto
[05:12] <ogra> :)
[05:12] <mvo> Version: 0.14.3+seriouslythistime-0ubuntu3
[05:14] <ogra> 0.14.3+try1andtry2-seriouslythistime-damnedrevertedto0.14.2-forrealthistime-0ubuntu3 
[05:14] <ogra> :)
[05:14] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:14] <jsgotangco> i just crack up whenever i see that bug report
[05:15] <elmo> Kamion: oh, shiny
[05:15] <elmo> /bin/hw-detect: line 733: /usr/lib/prebaseconfig.d/30hw-detect: No such file or directory
[05:15] <mvo> ogra: haha
[05:16] <ogra> you could put an -iknowisuck- anywhere as well :)
[05:16] <Kamion> elmo: meh
[05:17] <mvo> ogra: we have no versions with "suck" or any other swearswords I can think of 
[05:18] <ogra> ah, well, it would probably violate the CoC, but if it say it about myself that might be compliant 
[05:18] <ogra> but you surely would know you suck if you produce *such* version numbers :)
[05:19] <Kamion> elmo: I'll fix, no need for a bug
[05:19] <elmo> Kamion: ok - is there anything else I need to do to finish the install, beyond chrooting into the new root fs and installing grub properly?
[05:21] <Kamion> elmo: yes, it won't yet have removed packages that don't belong on the installed system, and it won't yet have copied log files
[05:21] <elmo> ah, I might just download an install CD and give that a try then
[05:21] <Kamion> elmo: might be easier to edit /bin/hw-detect, change the prebaseconfig= line to prebaseconfig=/dev/null, and retry
[05:21] <elmo> ah, ok
[05:21] <Kamion> sorry about that, my fault while integrating hw-detect
[05:22] <elmo> Kamion: no prob
[05:31] <Kamion> elmo: fixed in my branch now
[05:37] <elmo> Kamion: cool - seemed to work all the way through this time
[05:38] <Kamion> bonus
[05:42] <Riddell> Kamion: installing from yesterdays live CD I get a grub error 15 when booting, using both kde and gtk frontend
[05:42] <ogra> Riddell, really ? my tests with yesterdays CD were all fine 
[05:44] <Kamion> Riddell: you know where Malone is :-) I need /var/log/installer/syslog
[05:44] <Kamion> if you don't have that file, then you probably ran into the same thing elmo did
[05:45] <Mithrandir> Kamion: no, no unpushed casper changes.
[05:50] <carlospc> Hello, i'm experiencing problems in breezy with intel 945 chipset, does anybody knows if there is any unofficial backport of 2.6.15 kernel version for breezy?
[05:51] <HiddenWolf> carlospc: no there is not, and there won't be
[05:52] <zul> carlospc: you might want to try dapper
[05:53] <carlospc> but do you think that it can be done? i mean, take the dapper kernel and backport it to breezy, i know that it's a very hard issue and many others components has a strong dependency with the 2.6.12
[05:53] <zul> no
[05:53] <carlospc> well, it's not for me... it's for a Ubuntu derivate
[05:53] <carlospc> (breezy, in this case)
[05:53] <carlospc> Guadalinex
[05:54] <carlospc> We are experiencing too many problems with this chipset
[05:54] <Kamion> carlospc: it's really painfully difficult and inadvisable; the kernel<->udev interaction has changed and that requires changes in many other places
[05:54] <ogra> but you'd have to backport half the world 
[05:54] <HiddenWolf> udev/hotplug madness
[05:54] <ogra> yeah
[05:55] <Kamion> nobody's done it as far as I know, and TBH we'd probably rather they didn't, because it would complicate upgrading from whatever they produced to dapper
[05:59] <Riddell> pitti: where can I find your language pack size script?
[06:00] <pitti> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/bzr/langpack-o-matic/langpacksize
[06:00] <Riddell> thanks
[06:00] <siretart> does ubuntu dpkg do something strange wrt diversions?
[06:02] <siretart> consider a diversion like this: 'diversion of /etc/conf.foo to /etc/conf.foo.distrib'. if /etc/conf.foo exists, and on installation of foo, it places a /etc/conf.foo, why does dpkg give me a conffile prompt? this does not seem to happen in debian
[06:02] <Mithrandir> don't divert conffiles.
[06:03] <siretart> well, fai seem to do that. and it seems to work in debian, and now their complaining that it doesn't in ubuntu
[06:03] <ogra> fai
[06:03] <ogra> ...
[06:03] <siretart> ogra: ?
[06:03] <ogra> you know i'm not a fan :)
[06:04] <siretart> s/their/they're/
[06:04] <siretart> ogra: I think you mentioned cfengine, but I didn't know of fai
[06:04] <siretart> Mithrandir: do you think a replaces could help here?
[06:04] <ogra> and, doesnt fai heavily use cfengine ? 
[06:04] <Mithrandir> siretart: I think not diverting conffiles would be a good start.
[06:05] <siretart> I mean the Replaces: field in debian/control
[06:05] <Mithrandir> siretart: read 10.7.4 in debian policy.
[06:05] <Mithrandir> and no, I wouldn't use replaces.
[06:07] <siretart> Mithrandir: in this case, fai-nfsroots needs to 'own' /etc/dhcp3/dhclient-script. they are therefore using dpkg-divert on that file
[06:10] <Mithrandir> siretart: *shrug*; I'm telling you that it's a bad idea and won't work reliably.
[06:10] <siretart> I get the idea why it is a bad idea now, and I think I'll do something very hackish in oder do fix that
[06:11] <siretart> I'm wondering why it happens to work in debian, though
[06:11] <ogra> siretart, a proper way would be to do it similar to ltsp and source a conf.d dir or something
[06:12] <siretart> ogra: for configuring dhcp3-client?
[06:12] <ogra> we check for existance of /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf in the dhcp server initscript
[06:12] <ogra> i guess you can do similar things to dhcp-client, yes
[06:12] <siretart> hm
[06:12] <ogra> but not at this stage in the release :)
[06:12] <siretart> right
[06:17] <\sh> guys...I have a real problem :) chroot and amd64 people could help me :)
[06:18] <\sh> i386 boot kernel, amd64 chroot (including amd64 kernel installed now how do i get the "real architechture" and not the kernel uname output? 
[06:20] <Kamion> linux32 chroot /blah
[06:20] <Kamion> oh, er, booting an i386 kernel and chrooting *into* an amd64 system? that won't work at all, I assume you mean the other way round
[06:21] <\sh> Kamion: no..it works :) I only need to know the real architecture (amd64) 
[06:21] <\sh> Kamion: and not the kernel uname
[06:22] <Kamion> AFAIK there is no way to run 64-bit binaries when running an i386 kernel
[06:23] <ogra> you could try dpkg --print-architecture in the chroot ... dunno if that reports amd64 but i'd suspect to
[06:23] <ogra> which still doesnt mean you can run the binaries, Kamion is right 
[06:23] <\sh> ogra: and that's the problem :) the chroot != debian 
[06:24] <mjg59> \sh: How is the shell supposed to run on a 32-bit kernel?
[06:24] <Kamion> I think you must be mistaken about either your kernel or the chroot
[06:25] <\sh> oh I'm doomed
[06:25] <\sh> my colleague provided me really with the wrong chroot
[06:25] <\sh> *censored* all work is useless....:(
[06:26] <seb128> Kinnison: is there an easy way to know from my desktop without coding if sleep and hibernate are supported by the box?
[06:26] <bddebian> xsim's build env is a piece of *censored* :)
[06:26] <seb128> Kinnison: to know if the gnome-session patch is doing the right thing
[06:27] <Kinnison> seb128: click on the g-p-m icon and see what's offered?
[06:28] <seb128> Kinnison: I don't have an icon, but I'm on a desktop ...
[06:28] <ogra> wasnt there a hal method ? is that already in our hal =
[06:28] <ogra> ?
[06:29] <Kinnison> seb128: Open power preferences, choose "always dispay icon" and then click on it
[06:30] <seb128> Kinnison: great, thank you
[06:30] <Kinnison> No problem
[06:30] <seb128> sorry for the stupid questions, but I'm new to that g-p-m and I'm busy enough to not want to spend hours on it if not required :)
[06:30] <Kinnison> dholbach: Looks like I'll be in Paris as a soyuz representative
[06:30] <Kinnison> seb128: that's okay, I'm happy to help
[06:31] <kgoetz> i was wondering if the update tool (Breezy-> dapper) was going to remove backports from peoples lists before trying to upgrade? it occurred to me it might not be a healthy thing for the upgrade for them to be in place.
[06:31] <Kinnison> seb128: I'm sure I've asked my fair share of stupid questions in the past :-)
[06:31] <seb128> hehe
[06:31] <thom> Kinnison: does that mean you have to spend the entire time in a space suit?
[06:31] <Kinnison> thom: No, in a vomit chair
[06:32] <ogra> yippie :)
[06:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you sure you have no unpushed changes? I see "casper (1.50) UNRELEASED", but casper 1.50 is in the archive
[06:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: .bzr/parent is http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/bzr/casper/trunk
[06:37] <Kamion> perhaps uncommitted changes
[06:44] <BenC> dholbach: ping
[06:44] <dholbach> BenC: pong
[06:45] <BenC> dholbach: you were helping me with my ppc/evo crash, right?
[06:45] <dholbach> i tried :)
[06:45] <BenC> I've got it narrowed down to a single email with a single line change in the email to reproduce it
[06:45] <dholbach> oh?
[06:45] <dholbach> which one is that?
[06:45] <BenC> it's a message marked as spam
[06:46] <BenC> I have a filter for X-Spam-Status: yes match, and if I add/remove that line in _this_ email, it crashes/doesn't crash (it crashes when the line is present)
[06:46] <dholbach> urg
[06:46] <BenC> it's odd because a lot of messages have this line, but it's something with this complete message
[06:46] <dholbach> can you send me both?
[06:46] <BenC> sure
[06:46] <dholbach> I'll talk to the guys in #evolution and show them.
[06:49] <BenC> sent
[06:49] <dholbach> thanks
[06:50] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, then I do, but none apart from that.  I'll find my laptop and push.
[06:51] <BenC> dholbach: I'm installing the dbg stuff again, and source so I can try to do something about this...it's really cramped my workflow :)
[06:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, I was lying.  Pushed.
[06:52] <dholbach> BenC: you forwarded them to me? or bounced them?
[06:53] <dholbach> BenC: I got the same spam message two times - maybe that's the one
[06:53] <BenC> forwarded
[06:53] <dholbach> ok
[06:57] <dholbach> BenC: so just to understand you right: once you remove "X-Spam-Status: yes" it works for you on ppc again?
[06:57] <BenC> yes
[06:57] <dholbach> ok
[06:58] <BenC> my test involved deleting the email completely from evo, editing that file, importing it, and running the "Apply Filters" command on it
[06:58] <BenC> just to make sure there wasn't any cache issues or such
[07:05] <dholbach> BenC: I forwarded the issue to gnome bug 341282 and pinged the upstream guys about it
[07:06] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 341282 in Mailer "PowerPC crash on filtering X-Spam-Status" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341282
[07:07] <BenC> dholbach: it's actually crashing in camel_utf8_getc(), FYI
[07:07] <BenC> called from line 430 in camel_search_header_match()
[07:08] <BenC> specifically, line 60 in camel_utf8_getc()
[07:08] <BenC> r = *p++;
[07:09] <dholbach> BenC: thanks for looking into that - you're not even scared of evolution code! :-)
[07:10] <BenC> I used to work on glibc, nothing scares me any more :)
[07:11] <dholbach> Looks like it, yeah :-)
[07:11] <Keybuk> bah, glibc is easy
[07:12] <bddebian> BenC: :-)
[07:12] <bddebian> glibc is easy?
[07:12] <zul> BenC: you arent afraid of clowns?
[07:12] <Diziet> glibc is mad but at least you know what it's supposed to do.
[07:13] <BenC> glibc is only crazy because of the mounds of versioned symbols that have grown into it
[07:13] <Keybuk> like Ian says, if you're ever in doubt about glibc, just pick up the C standard and you know what you're doing
[07:13] <Keybuk> and in general, the routines are small and simple
[07:13] <BenC> sometimes you never know if you are fixing the right function, even though it's named the same thing
[07:14] <Keybuk> BenC: yay compatibility
[07:14] <azeem> its build system is scary though, but maybe that is because it was written by the gmake author
[07:14] <BenC> but yeah, the end result is easy to find :)
[07:14] <bddebian> I'd like to re-do the glibc stuff for Hurd but it scares the crap out of me :-)
[07:15] <BenC> probably the scariest thing about glibc is Uli :)
[07:15] <ogra> thats a function ? 
[07:16] <BenC> yeah, but you're never sure what data to pass to it, or what it will return
[07:16] <ogra> heh
[07:16] <azeem> bddebian: well, the Hurd specific parts *are* scary
[07:17] <bddebian> azeem: Aye :-)
[07:17] <BenC> printf(Uli("Cool patch that fixes things"));
[07:17] <bddebian> Plus, you know my current skillset :-(
[07:17] <BenC> "You are a dumb ass"
[07:17] <bddebian> hehe
[07:17] <bddebian> Thanks BenC.  How'd you know? :-)
[07:17] <BenC> hehe
[07:19] <BenC> dholbach: this camel_utf8_getc() function is super loaded with compiler optimizations, I'm wondering if it is getting miscompiled
[07:19] <BenC> I'm going to try dumbing it down and see if that fixes it
[07:20] <BenC> hmm...74 packags for evo-data-server build-deps...screw it, it's in the name of bug fixing
[07:20] <lamont> Kinnison: manual dyslexia issues, eh?
[07:21] <Kinnison> lamont: aye, lam<TAB> rather than lma<TAB>
[07:21] <pitti> mdz: can you please take a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ipsec-tools/+bug/40386 ?
[07:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40386 in ipsec-tools "Please upgrade to 0.6.5" [Normal,Fix committed]  
[07:21] <lamont> Kinnison: I do admit to frequently doing <letter><letter><TAB>
[07:21] <mdz> pitti: can you email me?  in the middle of a meeting and 3 conversations atm
[07:22] <pitti> mdz: Sure
[07:22] <nomed> dholbach, there is a new path commited in icon-naming-utils cvs ..
[07:23] <nomed> that'll add support for xfce, dobey told me that he'll not release yet a new version
[07:23] <dholbach> nomed: if it's terribly urgent we should have a bug about that
[07:23] <nomed> dholbach, it's terribly urgent 
[07:23] <dholbach> nomed: please file a bug and point to the change
[07:23] <dholbach> nomed: it makes more sense to have the info in one place
[07:26] <angystardust> Hi guys!
[07:27] <angystardust> BenC: what about the state of sky2 module? It needs much much love
[07:29] <angystardust> there are about 10 open bugs in malone (maybe dups)
[07:29] <BenC> angystardust: malone says that I commited an update yesterday to sky2
[07:30] <BenC> if there are any dupes, please merge them to the report that I set at "Fix Committed"
[07:30] <Tonio_> pitti: ping ?
[07:30] <pitti> hi Tonio_ 
[07:30] <nomed> dholbach, bug #44053 done
[07:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44053 in icon-naming-utils "legacy-icon-mapping.xml: Add some links for XFCE" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44053
[07:30] <Tonio_> pitti: hey :)
[07:30] <dholbach> nomed: thanks
[07:31] <Tonio_> pitti: we have a little issue with language-packs in kde
[07:31] <Tonio_> pitti: several languages are still 50% english, since there was a problem with kdelibs 2 weeks ago
[07:31] <Tonio_> pitti: when are new languages packs planned for ?
[07:32] <Tonio_> pitti: Riddell confirmed me new languages-packs would resolve the issue
[07:32] <angystardust> BenC: ok i'll do that...but i'm not sure that the patches you merged will fix up things
[07:32] <BenC> angystardust: If 2.6.16 works, then the patches I applied should work
[07:33] <BenC> angystardust: if 2.6.16 doesn't work, then there's not much I can do
[07:33] <pitti> Tonio_: yep, I'll build new ones for dapper soon
[07:33] <pitti> Tonio_: this week still, in any case
[07:33] <Tonio_> pitti: nice, that would help finding issues in translations :)
[07:33] <Tonio_> pitti: thanks
[07:34] <angystardust> BenC: many users report that 2.6.16 and even 2.6.17-rc3 don't work
[07:34] <BenC> angystardust: then I'm not sure I can do anything to fix the problem
[07:36] <pitti> carlos: what do you think about new langpacks tomorrow or Friday? any chance for further convergence?
[07:36] <carlos> pitti: Friday would be better
[07:36] <carlos> I need to do a new review that will be fixed between today and tomorrow
[07:37] <pitti> carlos: great, so it shall be Friday then :)
[07:37] <carlos> yeah ;-)
[07:37] <angystardust> BenC: if it doesn't take a lot of stress, you can sync with Stephen Shemminger's netdev git tree which include some important patches 
[07:38] <secondhand_budda> Hi. can anyone help me with a small edubuntu dapper mysql problem? 
[07:38] <HiddenWolf> secondhand_budda: ask in #ubuntu or #edubuntu
[07:38] <BenC> angystardust: last I looked at that version it did not compile in our tree without major backporting of other unrelated patches
[07:38] <BenC> I'd have to recheck that
[07:38] <secondhand_budda> I was referred here - to speak to infinity by ogra, but infinity's away...
[07:39] <angystardust> <a href="http://mail-archive.com/netdev%40vger.kernel.org/msg12133.html">http://mail-archive.com/netdev%40vger.kernel.org/msg12133.html</a>
[07:39] <ogra> secondhand_budda, he's in .au, he might be sleeping
[07:39] <secondhand_budda> probably :)
[07:40] <angystardust> it's stricly related to #38865
[07:40] <secondhand_budda> ok will try later thx
[07:41] <angystardust> there are too many laptops around which have that (damned) ethernet controller
[07:46] <angystardust> BenC: thank you
[08:01] <BenC> dholbach: Kick ass!
[08:01] <BenC> dholbach: Removing the inline/register constructs for that function stopped the crash
[08:01] <BenC> dholbach: I think this can be blamed squarely on gcc
[08:02] <dholbach> oh - WOW!
[08:02] <dholbach> BenC: Can you show what you changed?
[08:03] <BenC> dholbach: I'll send you a patch that should be included for dapper until we can get gcc fixed in edgy
[08:03] <BenC> will only affect ppc
[08:03] <dholbach> WOW
[08:05] <angystardust> j
[08:05] <desrt> ?
[08:06] <mxpxpod> BenC: with the sync to git for bcm43xx, does it now work with wpasupplicant?
[08:07] <desrt> mxpxpod; it's been working fantastic for me solid
[08:07] <mxpxpod> desrt: so, n-m works?
[08:07] <BenC> mxpxpod: it now doesn't work for me at all
[08:07] <BenC> current -22 should work
[08:08] <mxpxpod> sweet
[08:08] <mxpxpod> I'll have to try it tonight
[08:09] <mxpxpod> and just in time for dojo developer day this weekend :)
[08:13] <BenC> dholbach: I'm going to file this as a critical bug on evo-d-s and attach the patch, to make sure it gets into dapper
[08:14] <BenC> hmm, this may be the first bug I've ever filed in launchpad/malone
[08:14] <dholbach> BenC: cool - assign it to me and I'll look at it
[08:17] <HiddenWolf> BenC: well, nobody will complain, just close more than you open, ok? ;)
[08:17] <bddebian> hehe
[08:19] <BenC> dholbach: bug #44061
[08:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44061 in evolution-data-server "Crash in camel on PowerPC, gcc regression" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44061
[08:22] <dholbach> BenC: cool - thanks! I'll apply it and hope to hear back from ppc people - I'll attach it upstream in any way
[08:26] <BenC> might want to alert doko
[08:28] <HiddenWolf> since when do people happily use evo?
[08:28] <sivang> HiddenWolf: heh, they have just leanred to cope with it :)
[08:28] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: in a masochistic kind of way
[08:28] <BenC> HiddenWolf: since I don't have to use it over ssh -X :)
[08:29] <HiddenWolf> BenC: laughing out loud
[08:29] <Treenaks> BenC: ah, you look at it from the Lourdes-perspective: There's always someone who has it worse than me
[08:30] <sivang> BenC: that explains your joy :)(
[08:31] <HiddenWolf> BenC: does evo even cope with the amount of mail you get?
[08:31] <BenC> HiddenWolf: mostly
[08:32] <HiddenWolf> BenC: I had time to go to the bathroom when it processed my 20-odd new mails just now...
[08:32] <BenC> it's me that has a hard time coping with it
[08:32] <BenC> HiddenWolf: odd, doesn't take that long for me
[08:32] <mdke> was it a number two or a number one?
[08:32] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: I get hundreds of mails a day using evo. no problems for me..
[08:32] <mdke> perhaps that is an inappropriate question
[08:32] <HiddenWolf> mdke:  ;)
[08:33] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: I guess it's choking on one of my filters or something.
[08:33] <mdke> works fine here too. except threading, which is ballsed up
[08:34] <BenC> threading seems to be doing fine for me
[08:34] <BenC> much better than it used to be
[08:35] <desrt> BenC; have there been changes to the io scheduler between dapper and breezy?
[08:36] <BenC> desrt: depends, I think -server is using a different io scheduler
[08:36] <desrt> BenC; the latency of small io requests while big sequential operations are occuring has gone through the roof
[08:36] <mdke> BenC: I've got thread problems. I can't expand and collapse using keyboard shortcuts, collapse all threads doesn't work, and it doesn't focus on the thread when I expand it
[08:36] <BenC> all of them are enabled, so you can choose with a boot option
[08:36] <desrt> BenC; desktop.  i've tried antic and cfq.
[08:37] <BenC> desrt: perhaps it's more to do with preempt and/or HZ=1000
[08:37] <desrt> BenC; like if i'm copying a big file between two drives then typing ':wq' in vi with a small file open is a 15 second affair
[08:37] <tseng> isnt there a sysctl for the scheduler now
[08:37] <tseng> trying to figure what -server has
[08:37] <desrt> tseng; deadline, i think
[08:37] <BenC> desrt: odd, I haven't noticed that, but I have heard something similar from one other person
[08:37] <tseng> desrt: good, thats what i do manually anyway
[08:37] <thom> meh? really
[08:37] <desrt> tseng; and you change the scheduler on a per-device basis with a /sys/block/___/ file
[08:37] <desrt> it's queue/scheduler or something
[08:37] <tseng> oh yeah
[08:37] <thom> deadline's fine for webservers, but anything else really ought to be CFQ IME
[08:37] <BenC> desrt: could just be the driver for your disk
[08:38] <desrt> BenC; hum.
[08:38] <desrt> i wonder if maybe it's submitting an excessive amount of tagged requests
[08:38] <tseng> $ cat /sys/block/sda/queue/scheduler 
[08:38] <tseng> noop [anticipatory]  deadline cfq 
[08:38] <tseng> the default is AS
[08:38] <tseng> for everyone it seems
[08:38] <desrt> deadline on -server, i think
[08:38] <tseng> that was -server
[08:39] <desrt> anyway... bear with me here
[08:39] <BenC> I thought fabio has changed the -server scheduler
[08:39] <desrt> if the disk driver had like 100 tagged io requests issued it would take a long time for them to come back
[08:39] <desrt> and they'd all have to come back before the drive started servicing the small task for the other process
[08:39] <BenC> desrt: yeah, the queue could just be too damned big
[08:40] <desrt> and nothing the io scheduler could do would change that
[08:40] <desrt> or maybe the drive has its own elevator built in and is trying to group the similar requests too agressively
[08:40] <desrt> hmm!  lots to think about
[08:41] <desrt> i'm using ata_piix on an ICH5 mainboard, btw
[08:41] <desrt> with western digital 16MB cache drives
[08:42] <desrt> two of these -- WD2500JD-00H
[08:42] <BenC> were you using ata_piix in breezy?
[08:42] <desrt> ya.  i'd imagine so
[08:43] <Kamion> BenC: uli> yeah, I still remember the glibc bug I filed that was exposed by something in tar, which he blew off on the basis that if it were a problem the tar maintainer would have told him about it
[08:43] <desrt> ICH5 doesn't support AHCI
[08:43] <Kamion> BenC: so Paul forwarded my mail back to Uli as a bug report, and he fixed it then ;-)
[08:43] <BenC> Kamion: sounds all too familiar :)
[08:45] <desrt> heh
[08:45] <desrt> desrt@moonpix:~$ dd if=/dev/zero of=big bs=1G count=4
[08:45] <desrt> with this running vi locks up
[08:46] <desrt> 100% reproduceable for like 15-30 seconds
[08:46] <desrt> music playing is quite fine though
[08:46] <zyga> hey everyone
[08:47] <zyga> I've found a pecuilar USB flash disk that doesn't work under linux
[08:47] <Keybuk> zyga: sudo udevmonitor -e, plug it in, paste the modalias line
[08:47] <zyga> any hints on where to give the information about it?
[08:47] <zyga> Keybuk: ay
[08:47] <bddebian> Malone?
[08:49] <zyga> Keybuk: the strange thing about that device it that it appears to be two USB devices
[08:49] <desrt> BenC; any chance at all this could be caused by having no swap?
[08:49] <Keybuk> ok, pastebin me the entire output of that command then
[08:49] <zyga> MODALIAS=usb:v13FEp1A21d0100dc00dsc00dp00ic08isc06ip50
[08:49] <zyga> MODALIAS=usb:v13FEp1A21d0100dc00dsc00dp00ic08isc06ip50
[08:49] <zyga> the modalias line was there twice
[08:49] <BenC> desrt: very very likely
[08:49] <zyga> udev sees the stick and assigns two devices sda and sdb
[08:49] <desrt> BenC; that's odd....
[08:49] <zyga> both fail with 'no medium' on any operation
[08:49] <BenC> BenC; From what I hear, swap is almost a requirement, even on large mem systems
[08:49] <BenC> s/BenC/desrt/
[08:50] <desrt> hmm.
[08:50] <desrt> ok.  lemme try making some.
[08:50] <zyga> the thing worked on windows, also two devices, one has a small partition with some exe file, other had 99% of disk capacity
[08:50] <Keybuk> zyga: likely a kernel bug then
[08:51] <desrt> BenC; no improvement
[08:51] <zyga> I'll file at malone
[08:51] <Keybuk> zyga: attach both the entire udevmonitor output and /var/log/dmesg
[08:51] <zyga> okay
[08:51] <desrt> oo.  having swap makes my music skip, though :)
[08:51] <BenC> desrt: maybe not, I can reproduce it here on my ppc
[08:52] <desrt> oh man.  i gotta reboot
[08:53] <desrt> swapoff needs a 'turn off all swap' option :p
[08:54] <Keybuk> swapoff -a
[08:54] <Keybuk> ?
[08:55] <zyga> bah
[08:55] <zyga> does launchpad have a hidden kernel product somewhere?
[08:55] <zyga> I cannot find anything sensible to file a bug at
[08:55] <Keybuk> http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+filebug
[08:55] <zyga> thanks
[08:56] <desrt> Keybuk; that just disables all the swap listed in the fstab
[08:56] <desrt> Keybuk; and it doesn't work if the filename listed there no longer exists on the fs
[08:56] <Keybuk> it says it disables all swaps listed in /proc/swaps
[08:57] <desrt> hmm.  it didn't work, in any case
[08:57] <desrt> it would still need access to the file that i unlinked from the directory tree
[08:57] <desrt> no way to take the name in /proc/swaps and turn it into a device:inode pair
[09:00] <Kamion> Mithrandir: please merge/upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/casper/ubiquity/
[09:00] <zyga> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/44072
[09:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44072 in linux-source-2.6.15 "USB storage device is detected as two separate devices" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[09:00] <zyga> done, thanks
[09:01] <Kamion> Mithrandir: fixes debconf memory use and one-and-a-half ubiquity bug
[09:01] <Kamion> s
[09:05] <desrt> benc; https://launchpad.net/bugs/43484 btw
[09:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43484 in linux-source-2.6.15 "poor disk performance during heavy io" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[09:05] <BenC> desrt: thanks
[09:09] <andrei> Is asking a SoC-related question offtopic?
[09:10] <_ion> Is asking about asking a SoC-related question offtopic?
[09:10] <bddebian> Is lyx broken, replaced etc?
[09:10] <LaserJock> bddebian: it shouldn't be
[09:10] <desrt> _ion; are you an applicant?
[09:10] <_ion> desrt: No.
[09:10] <desrt> then probably not :)
[09:11] <bddebian> LaserJock: Well as I said, there is no lyx in lyx
[09:11] <andrei> desrt, I am 
[09:14] <mdz> mvo: any luck with my update-notifier problem?  am I the only one affected?
[09:14] <zyga> that device makes the kernel unstable 
[09:15] <mvo> mdz: it seems to be, at least I don't have any more reports about this particular one yet. but I havent looked at your latest debug info closely yet 
[09:17] <zyga> hey mvo
[09:17] <mvo> hello zyga
[09:17] <zyga> any bug you need to get confirmed? :)
[09:17] <mvo> how is it going?
[09:17] <zyga> good
[09:17] <mvo> zyga: bugs that affect mdz are the worst ;) - this particular problem is about update-notifer not remembering about already seen notifications and showing them offer and over again
[09:18] <zyga> we're fixing our new house
[09:18] <zyga> it'll take lots of lots of money :/
[09:18] <zyga> it was in worse condition than we orignally thought
[09:18] <zyga> mvo: maybe permissions problem?
[09:18] <zyga> .update-notifier owned by root?
[09:19] <_ion> mvo: I posted some patches to bug #31433
[09:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31433 in notification-daemon "notify bubble has text across screens" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31433
[09:19] <mvo> _ion: thanks, I have a look
[09:19] <mvo> zyga: how is your wife/gf doing?
[09:19] <zyga> fine, thanks :)
[09:20] <zyga> she's looking after the building process
[09:20] <zyga> I keep being at work alot :/
[09:20] <zyga> on the bright side we bought 300m of cat5e cable today :)
[09:21] <zyga> we'll have a possibility to make the house our way :)
[09:22] <mvo> zyga: heh .) 
[09:24] <zyga> oh
[09:24] <zyga> do you want a free itanium 1 daughterboard for dual CPUs?
[09:24] <zyga> I accidentally got an item off ebay that I don't need (I want itanium 2 mobo)
[09:24] <zyga> shipping to poland is way more pricey than shipping to de (especially from de)
[09:27] <zyga> I'll save money by giving it to you :)
[09:29] <zyga> mvo: ?
[09:29] <mvo> zyga: sorry, phonecall
[09:30] <zyga> k
[09:30] <mvo> zyga: not sure I can make something with it, maybe someone in the community can? but thanks for that great offer .)
[09:30] <zyga> anyway, anyone from de that could use it can get it for free
[09:33] <zyga> http://cgi.ebay.pl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6876062120&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1 
[09:33] <zyga> free for all :)
[09:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks, willdo.
[09:45] <doko> BenC: about 44061, could you check wuth gcc-4.1?
[09:46] <dholbach> apropos 44061, gnome bug 341282 just got a comment from one of the upstream guys
[09:46] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 341282 in Mailer "PowerPC crash on filtering X-Spam-Status" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341282
[09:47] <ogra> what did he write ? "get an intel mac" ?
[09:49] <thesaltydog> #ubuntu-motu
[09:49] <Evaso2> Hi guys there is a gui way for configure pptp in ubuntu? Because actually: n-m in ubuntu doesn't has vpn plugins packages and kvpnc version in ubuntu is quite buggy 
[09:50] <Evaso2> (dapper)
[09:51] <mjr> anyone know off the top of their head where to stick extra commands to be run at boot on the Live CD image? /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh didn't cut it
[09:52] <_ion> Just guessing, but would /etc/rc.local do it?
[09:52] <mjr> No such thing. I think the init stuff is done outside the actual root, mayhaps
[09:55] <Keybuk> which Live CD?
[09:55] <Keybuk> the current Live CD definitely has /etc/rc.local
[09:55] <mjr> breezy
[09:55] <desrt> mjr; just make a new initscript and tie it into /etc/rcS.d or rc2.d
[09:56] <desrt> mjr; depending on where exactly you'd like it to run
[09:57] <mjr> well, bootmisc.sh _is_ run through rcS.d
[09:57] <jcole> with flashplugin-nonfree crapping out in both sarge and dapper, has anyone considered adding gnash as an alternative?
[09:57] <mjr> but well, perhaps only rc2 stuff is done out of the main root
[09:57] <mjr> (just guessing)
[09:57] <jcole> on top of it, macromedia not wanting to release an 8 version for linux
[09:58] <mdke> jcole: works here
[09:58] <jcole> gnash is supposed to be flashplugin-nonfree 7 compliant
[09:59] <mdke> i mean, flashplugin-nonfree works here
[09:59] <jcole> mdke: sound doesn't work for me... do you have version 8?
[09:59] <jcole> mdke: i've got bug 29760
[09:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29760 in flash-player "Sound does not work properly in Flash in firefox" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29760
[10:00] <mdke> jcole: I wouldn't notice the absence of sound
[10:01] <jcole> mdke: videos are being done via flash on the net these days
[10:01] <jcole> mdke: google video for one does all their stuff flash video
[10:02] <jcole> mdke: now websites are requiring version 8
[10:02] <_ion> I never open the flash versions at google video, i always download the original files. The quality is better.
[10:02] <mdke> jcole: i don't use google video once, but the totem plugin has always worked
[10:02] <mdke> s/once/much
[10:03] <jcole> mdke: that's an example
[10:03] <mdke> well, you said "all their stuff"
[10:03] <jcole> mdke: my corporate videos are done via flash 8 video
[10:03] <Keybuk> every time I close 10 bugs, I like to think I've got us 1% of the way towards fixing them all
[10:03] <jcole> mdke: which i also cannot access
[10:03] <Keybuk> it's the only way I stay sane
[10:03] <Keybuk> :p
[10:04] <thom> Keybuk: "stay"
[10:04] <jcole> mdke: i installed firefox 1.5 in wine with flash 8 to be able to watch them
[10:04] <Keybuk> uh 0.1% even
[10:04] <mdke> Keybuk: :) isn't it 0.1%
[10:04] <Keybuk> thom: I'm dealing with the nm bug list right now
[10:04] <Keybuk> so I blame you entirely
[10:04] <thom> heh, thought you might
[10:05] <jcole> macromedia just released a version 9 of flash, still no linux version
[10:05] <jcole> "linux users don't understand the complexities involved in porting flashplayer 8 to linux"
[10:06] <Keybuk> they've still never released a non-i386 Linux version either
[10:06] <jcole> Keybuk: ya, flash is probably written in assembly
[10:06] <mjr> the complexities probably have something to do with the DRM Flash 8 sports
[10:07] <zyga> hmm
[10:07] <jcole> Keybuk: that's my guess... but they do have a ppc version
[10:07] <zyga> flash is ported to a wide array of arches
[10:07] <zyga> just properiarity and non-free ports
[10:07] <crimsun> thom: does 0.7.0-1 from Sid resolve critical bugs?
[10:07] <zyga> I've got one at work even :P
[10:07] <jcole> zyga: no 64 bit either
[10:08] <jcole> gnash looks pretty promising
[10:08] <Keybuk> jcole: doubt it
[10:08] <Keybuk> more likely it's just bad MFC C++
[10:08] <zyga> jcole: I'm pretty sure that the code we have could work on 64bits
[10:09] <zyga> I don't know if it's from macromedia though
[10:09] <thom> crimsun: nah, just features. and i imagine the launchpad folk would have collective heart failure if we changed it on them this late in dapper
[10:09] <crimsun> thom: ok.
[10:10] <dholbach> ok fellas, I'm off for tonight
[10:10] <Keybuk> I thought Launchpad used custom sqlobject code anyway
[10:10] <thom> dholbach: night mate
[10:10] <Keybuk> and had a complete copy of it in its source
[10:10] <thom> Keybuk: *shrug* wouldn't surprise me
[10:11] <Kamion> hmm, I think this is the first time I've actually used sed's h and x commands
[10:11] <dholbach> thom: night thom - I miss London's record shops already :)
[10:11] <thom> dholbach: heh, unsurprising :-)
[10:11] <dholbach> thom: I just can't seem to find the stuff I need in Berlin and in Online shops :)
[10:12] <dholbach> thom: oh well - I'll come back soon enough, I guess ;)(
[10:12] <dholbach> see you!
[10:12] <thom> dholbach: tried www.juno.co.uk?
[10:12] <thom> see ya mate
[10:12] <dholbach> *bookmark*
[10:12] <doko> mvo: ping
[10:13] <mvo> doko: pong
[10:20] <zyga> anyone from .de want a free itanium mobo part?
[10:26] <sladen> zyga: I don't know how useful just the daughtboard would be;  you might be better ebaying it, or emailing the debian hardware recycling project
[10:27] <zyga> sladen: I just ebay'ed it in :)
[10:27] <zyga> hmm
[10:27] <zyga> I'll google the latter
[10:36] <sladen> zyga: http://www.debian.org/donations#equipment_donations
[10:36] <zyga> thanks
[10:40] <sfllaw> Does Ubuntu not use modules.conf any more?
[10:42] <Keybuk> sfllaw: not in aaaaaaaages
[10:42] <sfllaw> I'm old, aren't I?
[10:42] <Keybuk> in fact
[10:42] <sfllaw> What's the substitute?
[10:42] <Keybuk> I'm probably correct in saying Ubuntu has *never* used modules.conf
[10:42] <Keybuk> as that's a configuration file for modutils
[10:42] <Keybuk> which is the toolset for 2.4 kernel
[10:42] <Keybuk> :p
[10:42] <Keybuk> files in /etc/modprobe.d
[10:42] <Keybuk> though I should probably ask why you're interested, as much of the use for modules.conf isn't covered by that
[10:43] <Keybuk> e.g. "adding a char-major-blah to auto-load a module when the device is touched" is bogus, and should be rethought as "the module wasn't loaded automatically in the first place"
[10:43] <sfllaw> The simple case of finding out which arguments are attached to a module being loaded.
[10:43] <Keybuk> ah right
[10:43] <sfllaw> modprobe.d files specify default args, right?
[10:43] <Keybuk> then yes, files in /etc/modprobe.d
[10:43] <sfllaw> Brilliant.
[10:44] <Keybuk> generally speaking, if the bug is asking for one of those to always exist, then I actually go and fix the damned driver
[10:44] <Keybuk> the only few cases where I haven't are usually because it was "too hard"
[10:44] <sfllaw> Bug #43738
[10:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43738 in linux-source-2.6.15 "No sound" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43738
[10:45] <sfllaw> It's suspicious because snd claims that it's being passed an Unknown parameter 'device_mode'
[10:46] <Keybuk> aye, makes it sound like he has "options snd device_mode=" in /etc/modprobe.conf or /etc/modprobe.d/*
[10:47] <Keybuk> usually a good trick is to ask for:
[10:47] <Keybuk> modprobe -n -v --first-time snd
[10:47] <Keybuk> or whatever he tried to prove
[10:47] <Keybuk> that will show you the options passed to insmod :)
[10:48] <sfllaw> Ah.
[10:48] <sfllaw> Well, that says "Module snd already in kernel." on my box...
[10:48] <Keybuk> it would :)
[10:48] <sfllaw> But I suppose since he can't load it.
[10:48] <Keybuk> on his, it won't
[10:48] <sfllaw> :)
[10:48] <sfllaw> He could also have something in /boot/grub/menu.lst, eh?
[10:49] <Keybuk> not sure, I have a vague remembering that kernel command-line options aren't relevant for modules
[10:49] <sfllaw> Hmm.
[10:49] <Keybuk> I remember Ben compiling something ide-related into the kernel to get it to recognise the common command-line option
[10:49] <Keybuk> (it was expecting it as a module parameter otherwise)
[10:50] <Keybuk> heh @ bug 41134
[10:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41134 in network-manager "Does not store WPA-Enterprise password in keyring" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41134
[10:51] <Keybuk> dieman: do you think you could avoid your VACATION AUTO-RESPONDER from doing that <g>
[10:51] <sfllaw> Heh.
[10:51] <sfllaw> Keybuk: Thanks.
[10:51] <Keybuk> woo, I have NM bugs down from 90 to just 35
[10:51] <Keybuk> 0.3% !
[10:51] <bddebian> w00t
[10:52] <thom> Keybuk: resolving things at random is cheating ;-)
[10:52] <Keybuk> thom: I'm not, I've actually been doing it properly
[10:52] <Keybuk> and filing upstream too
[10:53] <zul> later
[11:05] <Keybuk> man, I'd forgotten how hard extracting patches from CVS was
[11:06] <thom> you may diss having global revisions in svn, but it's so much better than the alternative
[11:09] <Keybuk> I think I prefer the bzr method
[11:09] <Keybuk> global revision per branch
[11:09] <Keybuk> without SVN's "lump everything in one repository"
[11:09] <Keybuk> cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@anoncvs.gnome.org:/cvs/gnome rdiff -u -D "Thu Apr 20 20:39:50 2006 UTC" -D "Thu Apr 20 20:49:50 2006 UTC" NetworkManager
[11:09] <Keybuk> ^ that's just wrong
[11:11] <sfllaw> Keybuk: I used to use cvsps.
[11:11] <sfllaw> Keybuk: You may find it less painful.
[11:11] <sfllaw> Albeit awfully slow.
[11:15] <thom> Keybuk: nod (to prefering bzr)
[11:17] <mjg59> Mithrandir: How do I kill framebuffer in the livecd startup?
[11:18] <mjg59> Oh, I need to drop it from usplash as well
[11:18] <Mithrandir> mjg59: remove splash from the command line?
[11:18] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Doesn't seem to be adequate
[11:18] <Mithrandir> mjg59: casper doesn't touch the framebuffer, iirc.
[11:19] <mjg59> Ok, let me try that again
[11:20] <Keybuk> well, blow me, it actually builds
[11:20] <highvoltage> sfllaw: ping
[11:21] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Something seems to load it even if I don't pass splash
[11:21] <Keybuk> which framebuffer driver?
[11:21] <Keybuk> they should be all blacklisted
[11:21] <Keybuk> unless a new one has snuck in
[11:21] <mjg59> vga16
[11:22] <sfllaw> highvoltage: Pong.
[11:22] <mjg59> So it's not udev
[11:22] <Keybuk> hmm, no such module :)
[11:22] <mjg59> Keybuk: The module is vga16fb
[11:22] <mjg59> It's autoloaded by usplash
[11:22] <sladen> vga16fb
[11:22] <highvoltage> sfllaw: hi there. remember to create the LP dial-up team, following last night's TB discussion ;)
[11:22] <Keybuk> right
[11:22] <mjg59> But seemingly also by something else, unless usplash is b0rked
[11:22] <sfllaw> highvoltage: It's on my todo list.
[11:22] <sfllaw> Near the top.
[11:23] <highvoltage> sfllaw: great. goodnight!
[11:23] <sfllaw> Because the list is getting mighty long.
[11:23] <sfllaw> highvoltage: Night!
[11:23] <Mithrandir> mjg59: weird; I'm fairly sure casper doesn't touch the framebuffer.
[11:23] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Hm
[11:23] <highvoltage> mine is quite long too, but i have an entry that says 'bug sfllaw about lp team' :)
[11:23] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I can't find "framebuffer" or "vga" in the entire source tree.
[11:23] <sfllaw> highvoltage: Sweet!
[11:23] <highvoltage> :p
[11:23] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Right
[11:34] <carlos> pitti: hi, around?
[11:34] <pitti> carlos: should I better run fast?
[11:35] <Kamion> PCA is a UK magazine, last I checked with a strong Windows bias
[11:35] <Kamion> although one of the better Windows mags
[11:36] <Kamion> feature> and shipping breezy on their cover DVD
[11:36] <carlos> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MissingPotFiles
[11:36] <carlos> pitti: I updated it
[11:36] <carlos> pitti: there you have a list of domains I don't know where they come
[11:37] <carlos> pitti: others that you have and you should not have in your packages
[11:37] <mdke> Znarl: thanks for the wiki! does henrik have access to the wiki theme stuff too, as well as the static webspace? We need to do some theme and config tweaking
[11:37] <pitti> carlos: ah, nice
[11:37] <carlos> pitti: and the list from Riddell should also be ignored
[11:37] <pitti> carlos: the ones assigned to you are pending review in Rosetta, and are fine in the packages?
[11:37] <carlos> pitti: there I have also the list of translations domains that I need either import manually or check if should not be on language packs
[11:38] <pitti> tseng: beagle is pending upload; does it need an UVF exception approval or so?
[11:39] <carlos> pitti: tomorrow export should have all translation domains fixed except for the ones I listed on the wiki
[11:40] <pitti> carlos: ok, I'll take a look at the list tomorrow and sort out some bogus ones ('test' is a good candidate)
[11:40] <carlos> pitti: cool, thanks
[11:43] <carlos> I will try to have all domains sorted tomorrow to get a full export on Friday, or at least most of them
[11:50] <carlos> night !!
[11:51] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Oh, damn, I know what's up. It'll be starting imacfb.
[11:54] <Runix>  i need help
[11:55] <Runix>  i must to delete from menu item "recent document"
[11:55] <mdke> Runix: #ubuntu
[11:55] <Runix> i did
[11:56] <mdke> Runix: that's the best we can do, for irc, I'm afraid
[11:56] <mdke> keep trying
[11:56] <mdke> otherwise, forums/mailing lists might help
[11:56] <Runix> i don't speak english very well
[11:57] <mdke> Runix: what's your language?
[11:57] <Runix> i'm italia
[11:57] <mdke> Runix: prova #ubuntu-it
[11:57] <Runix> italian people not intelligent
[11:57] <Runix> they like to joke
[11:57] <Runix> not to help
[11:58] <mdke> I'll help you, let's move there
[11:58] <Runix> if i write
[11:58] <Runix>  i must to delete from menu item "recent document"
[11:58] <Runix> they reply 
[11:58] <Runix> use xfce
[11:59] <mdke> Runix: let's talk in private message
[12:00] <Runix> i did
[12:00] <mdke> Runix: with me?
[12:00] <Runix> yes
[12:01] <mdke> are you registered?
[12:01] <Runix> (0.02.22) Runix: si
[12:01] <Runix> (0.02.38) Runix: ho provato
[12:01] <Runix> (0.02.46) Runix: ma tutte risposte a cazzo
[12:01] <Runix> (0.03.05) Runix: se dico come togliere la voce documenti recenti da gnome
[12:01] <Runix> (0.03.12) Runix: mi dicono prova xfce
[12:01] <Runix> (0.03.15) Runix: oppre
[12:01] <Runix> (0.03.28) Runix: clicca su elimina file recenti
[12:01] <Runix> i'm not
[12:01] <mdke> omg. Runix, join #ubuntu-it and we'll talk. Enough here.
[12:01] <Runix> i did
[12:01] <Runix> they don't help me
[12:01] <crimsun> pitti: if you're willing and have time, I've spun two trivial alsa* bugfix debdiffs. One is at http://sh.nu/~crimsun/alsa-lib_1.0.10-2ubuntu4.debdiff, and the other is attached to bug 31784.
[12:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31784 in alsa-utils "'VIA DXS' elements must be unmuted by default for audible volume on newer Via hardware" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31784