[12:18] <mdke> holy shit!
[12:18] <mdke> asian fonts in a pdf
[12:18] <mdke> that's awesome news
[12:18] <LaserJock> mdke: do I need to remind you of the CoC? ;p
[12:19] <mdke> dude, you'll eat your words when I show you a pdf of the packaging guide in korean
[12:19] <mdke> s/when/if
[12:20] <LaserJock> hehe
[12:22] <mdke> oh well, I've got chinese working, from here to korean is but a small skip
[12:28] <theCore> mdke: what is the deadline for the cover art ?
[12:28] <mdke> theCore: I don't think we have one. I'm kinda waiting for Madpilot to settle down after moving house and all
[12:29] <theCore> mdke: okay, I will try to make one cover for the PG, and if it's good I will do the others
[12:29] <mdke> theCore: I'd suggest you work with what we already have though, there is some nice stuff.
[12:30] <Burgwork> mdke, my brother is quite possibly the most disorganized person on earth
[12:30] <mdke> also to bear in mind is the question of whether we are going to have the publisher generate the words on the front page
[12:30] <mdke> Burgwork: :)
[12:30] <theCore> mdke: any links?
[12:30] <Burgwork> I had to help him move, after all
[12:30] <mdke> Burgwork: didn't you stay up late and oversleep?
[12:31] <mdke> theCore: no, not at the moment.
[12:31] <Burgwork> yes, but he spent 3 hours bitching and not packing
[12:31] <Burgwork> he has the attention span of a retarded rat
[12:32] <Burgwork> ok, maybe that wasn't so CoC, but hey, I am related to him
[12:32] <LaserJock> lol
[12:32] <theCore> mdke: Hmm... then how I can work on the current artwork?
[12:33] <mdke> theCore: by emailing Madpilot, and/or the list
[12:33] <Burgwork> LaserJock, can I play with the edubuntu thing this weekend?
[12:34] <LaserJock> Burgwork: that I put in the repo?
[12:34] <Burgwork> yep
[12:34] <mdke> I ROCK
[12:35] <mdke> http://mdke.org/ubuntu/packagingguide.pdf
[12:35] <mdke> LaserJock: ^^
[12:35] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I guess, but try to let me know what your doing because I've got cbx33 and the other guys sending me patches.
[12:36] <Burgwork> LaserJock, ok, will do
[12:39] <LaserJock> OH MY GOSH!
[12:39] <mdke> i was just gonna say
[12:39] <mdke> you aren't suitably impressed
[12:41] <LaserJock> mdke: you da man!
[12:42] <mdke> well, to be fair
[12:42] <mdke> I've been meandering around on the fop mailing list for ages before they spoon fed me the answer
[12:42] <mdke> but it's still cool
[12:46] <LaserJock> heck yeah
[01:04] <mdke> LaserJock: btw, did you include the lulu spiel in the packaging guide yet?
[01:05] <mdke> robotgeek: ditto?
[01:05] <LaserJock> mdke: no, did you put it in the other docs?
[01:06] <mdke> LaserJock: yes, except I couldn't think of where to put it in PG and KDG, because they don't seem to have a section which says "welcome to this guide, it is available in HTML on this website, etc etc"
[01:07] <LaserJock> hmm
[01:08] <LaserJock> mdke: should I add such a sentence?
[01:10] <mdke> LaserJock: your call. If you copy a paragraph exactly from the other guides, it will be easier for the translators, because Rosetta will auto-suggest it as a translation
[01:10] <LaserJock> ok, let me check it out real quick
[01:15] <LaserJock> mdke: the desktop guide doesn't use the common preface?
[01:17] <mdke> LaserJock: no, we included an extra introduction
[01:17] <LaserJock> hmm, well doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a common preface?
[01:18] <mdke> yes, but we couldn't think of a better way to include the introduction
[01:19] <LaserJock> hmm, well what if I put the 2 paragraphs for doc.ubuntu.com and lulu in the common preface?
[01:20] <mdke> I'm not sure. Where abouts?
[01:20] <mdke> oh, plus the serverguide doesn't put those paragraphs in the common preface, it has them in introduction.xml
[01:21] <LaserJock> alright, I'll put them in my introduction, but for edgy we might want to think about this again
[01:21] <mdke> yes, I think we can do it better for edgy, you're right
[01:23] <mdke> ->bed
[01:23] <LaserJock> k, I've found a place to put it
[04:37] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: ping?
[04:37] <jsgotangco> hi
[04:38] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: somebody had a bug with the Edubuntu Release Notes
[04:38] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: the link to the FAQ Guide doesn't go anyplace real
[04:39] <jsgotangco> ???
[04:39] <jsgotangco> you mean on svn?
[04:39] <jsgotangco> that's a pretty outdated release notes
[04:40] <jsgotangco> i will fix it i see the problem now
[04:40] <LaserJock> but it's on doc.ubuntu.com so people see it
[04:41] <jsgotangco> yeah i see the issue, thanks for the ping
[04:41] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: I would have just fixed it but I didn't know what it was supposed to be and I wanted to ask you first
[04:43] <jsgotangco> not sure either for now, will review it, but feel free to fix it if you have time
[04:53] <jsgotangco> lol it goes to us robotics site hahaha clever firefox
[04:55] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:03] <LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
[05:03] <Madpilot> hi
[05:04] <robotgeek> hey LaserJock Madpilot 
[05:05] <robotgeek> also jsgotangco :)
[05:07] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
[05:08] <robotgeek> i need to make the changes which mdke asked me to make 
[05:15] <jsgotangco> hi
[06:08] <robotgeek> hmm, usage of manual vs guide?
[06:21] <robotgeek> mdke: commited for KDG
[08:19] <rob> hmm
[08:19] <rob> I've exchanged a couple of emails with jane off list
[08:19] <rob> I'll probably reply to her again soon
[08:20] <rob> so you probably haven't heard the end of things just yet, despite the thread kind of dieing
[09:31] <mdke> robotgeek: thanks
[09:32] <jsgotangco> mdke: hello
[09:33] <mdke> jsgotangco: hiya
[09:34] <mdke> -> work
[12:14] <jsgotangco> hmm who deactivated rocco?
[12:16] <mdke> he did it himself, iirc.
[12:16] <mdke> accidentally
[12:26] <jsgotangco> i gotta go
[12:26] <jsgotangco> brb
[04:07] <jjesse> thats the most discussion i've seen about a bug ever :)
[04:48] <jenda> jjesse: And what about Bug #1? 
[04:49] <mdke> yeah, bug 1 has been spammed to death
[04:49] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:50] <jjesse> well not including bug 1
[04:50] <jsgotangco> i just played the most awesome game i ever got to see
[04:51] <jjesse> yeah?
[04:51] <jsgotangco> yeah, it ate 10GB of HD space from my windows machine
[04:53] <jsgotangco> time to look at these SoC proposals
[04:54] <jjesse> ouch, sounds like fun though
[04:55] <jsgotangco> sure its like digging through malone bugs except all of them are wishlists
[04:55] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:58] <pitti> hi
[04:58] <jjesse> hello pitti
[04:58] <pitti> is anyone here who could correct http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/cups.html ?
[04:59] <jsgotangco> hi
[04:59] <pitti> hey jsgotangco 
[04:59] <jjesse> jsgotangco can you help him out? i don'thave my docs here 
[04:59] <mdke> pitti: if you tell us what is wrong with it, or file a bug, we'll consider correcting it, if the error is significant enough to break string freeze
[04:59] <pitti> the apt-get command on this page is a mess
[04:59] <pitti> and it won't get translated
[04:59] <jsgotangco> i have my docs here
[04:59] <jsgotangco> but not familiar with the doc itself
[04:59] <pitti> ah, so which package shoudl I file this against?
[05:00] <jsgotangco> ubuntu-docs
[05:00] <pitti> ah, thanks
[05:00] <jsgotangco> cheers pitti 
[05:03] <pitti> I'll also file a second one about the new /etc/cups/cups.d/
[05:04] <jjesse> pitti: do these changes affect the desktop guides as well or just the server?
[05:04] <pitti> jjesse: both I guess, since cups is heavily used on desktops
[05:05] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:05] <jjesse> pitti do you have a bug # for it yet? it will also need to be assinged to kubuntu-docs as well
[05:06] <pitti> I just filed bug 44025 and bug 44026
[05:06] <pitti> oh, no ubugtu here?
[05:07] <mdke> no, but we get them to the ML, I'll take a look and get back to you, thanks
[05:08] <pitti> thank you, guys!
[05:09] <pitti> oh, btw, wrt. string freeze: there is a half-ready patch for gnome-cups-manager to add a checkbox to the 'Global Settings' menu to enable/disable printer sharing
[05:09] <pitti> this is an often requested feature
[05:09] <pitti> but of course it would change the UI
[05:09] <pitti> is this strictly prohibited now?
[05:10] <pitti> or is it a matter of 'if you ask the doc-team before and they agree, it's still possible'?
[05:11] <mdke> pitti: you just notify the translators and docteam
[05:11] <pitti> alright, thanks
[05:11] <pitti> the patch is not yet golden anyway
[05:12] <jjesse> shouldn't those bugs be also filled against kubuntu-doc as well?
[05:12] <mdke> we'd have no objection, our docs have hardly anything on printing
[05:12] <jjesse> as they affect the desktop guide for both?
[05:12] <mdke> jjesse: did you look in the desktop guide?
[05:12] <jsgotangco> unless you have very specific instructions for configuring pritners with cups
[05:12] <pitti> jjesse: cups is DE agnostic, so I guess so; don't you share a 'common' part amongst ubuntu and kubuntu docs?
[05:13] <mdke> neither desktop guide has anything on printing to speak of
[05:13] <jjesse> mdke: was checking it
[05:14] <mdke> pitti: re bug 44025, do the instructions that follow still work with the changes you suggest? if so, then Id say we can fix it without much difficulty.
[05:16] <pitti> mdke: why should someone manually specify all the libraries and other dependencies of cups?
[05:16] <jjesse> mdke: well then printing needs to a section we add/expand for edgy
[05:16] <pitti> aptitude/apt-get will pull in all the dependencies anyway
[05:16] <pitti> and hardcoding library SONAMEs in the doc is ugly
[05:17] <pitti> and subject to change
[05:17] <mdke> pitti: good, thanks
[05:17] <mdke> jjesse: yes, it is
[05:17] <pitti> mdke: btw, do you generally use apt-get in the docs? aptitude is much nicer wrt. installing of Recommends: and (even more important for me) automatic dependency cleanup on uninstall
[05:20] <mdke> pitti: in that doc generally apt-get is used, but we'll be looking for a clearer solution for the next release
[05:21] <mdke> what we have done in the desktop guide is avoid specifying any package manager, and leaving it to the user to decide, based on instructions given in the package management section
[05:21] <pitti> that makes sense indeed
[05:22] <jsgotangco> maybe we should recommend collectively?
[05:23] <jjesse> well we need a standard for kubuntu and a standard for ubuntu
[05:26] <mdke> in the desktop guides we do recommend specific managers
[05:26] <mdke> recommending aptitute in the server guide would make sense
[06:14] <Reidy> Hey I have a realy retarded problem and I don't know whether or not it is to do with me bieng a complete noob or just something's messed up. I cannot access any other drive or partion other than the one I boot of i have mounted them tyed accesseing them from the console but i get access denied even as root any ideas any one?
[06:16] <Reidy> Also in the /dev folder if I try access a hard drive for axample /dev/hdb1 I just get could not open the file /dev/hdb1
[06:27] <jjesse> Reidy: check in #ubuntu for support
[06:30] <Reidy> ok cheers
[08:07] <Laser_away> mdke: ping?
[08:10] <mdke> LaserJock: pong
[08:11] <LaserJock> mdke: I don't understand why you moved to bug to the upstream product
[08:12] <mdke> LaserJock: well the idea is that all bugs that are on the documentation should be on the upstream product. 
[08:12] <mdke> that way we have control about which release we want to fix them in, etc
[08:12] <LaserJock> but you have that anyway
[08:13] <LaserJock> upstream product doesn't make sense, but then a lot of LP doesn't make sense to me yet
[08:13] <mdke> how do you have that anyway?
[08:14] <LaserJock> so somebody (I don't know who) can set a bug to dapper or breezy or whatever, right?
[08:15] <mdke> only ubuntu drivers can do it
[08:15] <mdke> we can't do it
[08:16] <mdke> LaserJock: any luck with the lulu string change?
[08:16] <LaserJock> but if I click on a bug (like to change the status) I can set "Also effects: upstream or distribution"
[08:16] <mdke> LaserJock: yeah, but you can't select which release in a distribution, unless you are an Ubuntu driver
[08:16] <mdke> I was pretty confused about this too
[08:17] <LaserJock> ok, but is that a problem?
[08:17] <LaserJock> do we want to do that?
[08:17] <mdke> see the recent thread on launchpad-users "Lack of release targeting in Malone"
[08:17] <mdke> sure, we want to say "we wont' fix this in branches/dapper, but we will fix it in trunk for the next release"
[08:18] <LaserJock> yeah, that thread is why I'm asking the question, it's still pretty murky for me.
[08:18] <mdke> it's not very comprehensible, I have to say
[08:18] <mdke> anyway, any luck on the lulu string change?
[08:19] <LaserJock> right, so does making the upstream product task help? can you set that then?
[08:19] <LaserJock> mdke: yeah, but I had a question about the exact wording
[08:19] <LaserJock> mdke: one sentence uses manual, while the next uses guide. should they be consistent?
[08:20] <mdke> LaserJock: in the desktop/server guide?
[08:20] <LaserJock> mdke: yeah
[08:20] <mdke> I would say that since those have already been translated, let's leave them like that
[08:21] <LaserJock> the <para> that has the link to doc.ubuntu.com has manual and the the lulu <para> has guide
[08:21] <LaserJock> ok, np
[08:21] <mdke> the words are kinda synonymous
[08:21] <mdke> ideally it would be consistent, but *shrug*
[08:21] <LaserJock> heh, I can think of some bigger issues that will have to wait too
[08:22] <mdke> yeah
[08:22] <mdke> ok, if you commit it, I'll upload to rosetta
[08:25] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, give me a minute to make a last minute check. I want this to be the last commit
[08:25] <mdke> sure, no immediate rush
[08:30] <LaserJock> mdke: btw, did you ever figure out how to ad "page " to the pdf xrefs?
[08:30] <mdke> LaserJock: I asked on a mailing list, and got an answer, but I haven't implemented it yet
[08:31] <LaserJock> ok, cool. I just wondered
[08:33] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, just came across something in the book. a link to a file in ../files/ shows up in the pdf as just that
[08:33] <LaserJock> is there anything we can do about that or should we just leave it?
[08:34] <mdke> yes, that occurred to me. I don't think there is anything we can do about it, tbh
[08:34] <mdke> the same applies to sample/ in the other guides
[08:34] <LaserJock> right
[08:34] <LaserJock> I just noticed it because I only have 1 of those
[09:51] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, I've commited. I fixed a couple xref typos and added a small <para> for the Bug Squad that I think is really needed
[09:51] <LaserJock> mdke: should be the last from me
[09:55] <mdke> LaserJock: rock :) thanks
[09:55] <LaserJock> np
[09:56] <LaserJock> sorry I was so slow, my in-laws are coming tomorrow and the house is a mess (trying to put in new flooring and landscaping)
[09:56] <mdke> ooh, cool
[09:56] <mdke> except the in-laws part ;)
[09:56] <LaserJock> hehe, I really like my in-laws though, so its cool
[09:56] <LaserJock> my wife freaks out about it more than I do
[09:57] <mdke> liking your in-laws isn't allowed
[09:57] <LaserJock> btw, I talked with sfflaw a briefly about getting more bug related documentation into Edgy
[09:57] <mdke> as in, hot to report?
[09:57] <mdke> how*
[09:57] <LaserJock> I could expand the section I have or, maybe better, a seperate doc
[09:58] <LaserJock> mdke: yeah, and perhaps triaging techniques, how to use LP, etc.
[09:58] <mdke> absolutely
[09:58] <LaserJock> not sure of details, but sfflaw is interested in getting better bug related docs
[09:59] <LaserJock> trappist, I think, was talking about perhaps having a troubleshooting guide that would have debugging info and how to report, etc.
[09:59] <LaserJock> it might be pretty cool
[09:59] <mdke> very good idea indeed
[10:00] <LaserJock> might be something we would want to spec out and get ideas from mdz, Kamion, sfflaw, et. al.
[10:01] <mdke> sure, it's interesting to explore the boundary between troubleshooting and bug hunting
[10:03] <LaserJock> I agree
[10:04] <crimsun> that's a pretty thin boundary imo
[10:04] <mdke> yeah
[10:04] <crimsun> yes, please check with sfflaw, since there are a couple of teams already doing such (I know the kernel team is working on better docs)
[10:06] <LaserJock> crimsun: right, we talked briefly about it. I'd like to see a shipped doc that sort of puts all this together
[10:06] <mdke> we're going to need to reassess our help system in genera
[10:06] <mdke> l
[10:08] <crimsun> I'm quite interested in what Simon has planned for automated debug generation and/or testing harnesses
[10:09] <LaserJock> yes