[12:04] <BenC> yeah, I've thought about that too
[12:04] <zul> there was a patch like that by dave jones but i dont think it got anywhere
[12:04] <lifeless> is sourcepackage the right granularity for you ? I think it is 
[12:04] <BenC> hopefully for edgy we can get the failsafe kernel with kexec :)
[12:05] <BenC> lifeless: yeah
[12:05] <zul> maybe add something like this to the wiki http://www.parisc-linux.org/faq/kernelbug-howto.html
[12:05] <mdz> ok
[12:06] <mdz> zul: good point, there are surely existing resources we can draw from
[12:06] <mdz> where's the document in our wiki?
[12:06] <zul> ill try to merge a couple of resources that ill look for
[12:06] <BenC> dholbach did it, so check under his bug stuff
[12:07] <BenC> another thing we need to do is coordinate better with kernel.org bugzilla
[12:07] <zul> agree
[12:07] <BenC> the more of our bugs that we can link with there, the better chance someone else will fix it
[12:08] <lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelProblems <- ??
[12:08] <lifeless> is that the page ?
[12:08] <mdz> it's not linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Teams
[12:08] <mdz> which is where I looked
[12:08] <lifeless> if so, its a little vestigial
[12:08] <BenC> yep
[12:08] <sfllaw> Apparently, davej looks through Malone every once in a while...
[12:08] <BenC> it is pretty thing
[12:08] <zul> ill try to add some more information 
[12:08] <BenC> thin
[12:09] <mdz> BenC: between you and sfllaw, make sure we have a solid "how to make sure a kernel bug is useful to the kernel team" document
[12:09] <BenC> needs stuff about oops capturing and such
[12:09] <lifeless> bug 43893
[12:09] <sfllaw> mdz: I think it's linked from DebuggingProcedures
[12:09] <lifeless> ah, no ubugtu
[12:09] <lifeless> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/43893
[12:10] <sfllaw> BenC: If you could add stuff to DebuggingKernelProblems, that would be ace.
[12:10] <sfllaw> Even if it's just point form.
[12:10] <sfllaw> I can expand on it.
[12:10] <mdz> sfllaw: I think it should be possible to make the same document useflu to reporters and the bugsquad
[12:10] <mdz> sfllaw: I suggest that you and BenC have a phone call later today and hash this stuff out over a higher-bandwidth link
[12:10] <mdz> lifeless: maybe you'd be interested in the conf call as well?
[12:10] <lifeless> mdz: yep
[12:11] <mdz> ok
[12:11] <BenC> ok, but someone else will need to setup the conf call
[12:11] <BenC> I can only do single line :)
[12:12] <mdz> BenC: I'll see if I can dig up that info, unless sfllaw is set up for 3-way calling at home
[12:12] <sfllaw> I'm not.
[12:12] <lifeless> though given timezones,and three way difficulties ... my primary interest is to get a feel for the challenges you are running into
[12:12] <sfllaw> I haven't even setup long distance yet.  ;)
[12:12] <mdz> I have the passcode and will set it up for you
[12:12] <mdz> what time?
[12:12] <BenC> any time during work hours is good, I can do outside work hours given notice
[12:12] <lifeless> anytime from now for the next 12 hours works
[12:13] <mdz> sfllaw: how is nowish for you?
[12:13] <zul> BenC: ill try to find some resources as well
[12:13] <sfllaw> Nowish is good, as long as we have a direct meeting.
[12:13] <mdz> BenC: is now close enough?
[12:13] <sfllaw> I don't want to waffle and take up forever.
[12:14] <mdz> sfllaw: what we want out of it is a plan to a) get the wiki page into shape as discussed, b) prepare an announcement explaining how to help (with URLs both to a custom report for the right set of bugs, and the instructions for what to do)
[12:14] <BenC> now is fine
[12:14] <mdz> BenC: do you have any documentation on the daily builds?
[12:14] <mdz> the documentation could explain how to use those to isolate regressions
[12:14] <BenC> not really
[12:15] <BenC> other than an email that got sent out awhile back
[12:16] <mdz> ok, I'm tracking down the PIN for the confcall system
[12:16] <sfllaw> Give me five minutes, and I'll be ready for the phone call.
[12:16] <mdz> do you all have the dialin info?
[12:17] <BenC> not handy
[12:17] <lifeless> same
[12:18] <zul> http://mbligh.org/linuxdocs/Kernel
[12:20] <zul> ok i have to head off to my parents
[12:20] <mdz> I'll get that
[12:24] <sfllaw> Back.
[12:24] <sfllaw> I also have no idea what the dialin info is.
[12:25] <mdz> lifeless,sfllaw,BenC: sent you email
[12:26] <mdz> conference is in progress
[12:27] <sfllaw> What's the PIN?
[12:27] <lifeless> whats the code ?
[12:28] <sfllaw> mdz: Ping?
[12:28] <lifeless> mdz: we need a 'conference code'
[12:29] <BenC> what is the code?
[12:29] <mdz>  /msg
[12:30] <lifeless> thanks
[01:02] <lifeless> thanks mdz, that was good
[01:13] <mdz> lifeless: sorry I couldn't join; just got off with mark
[01:13] <mdz> and kiko has been waiting all day to talk
[01:16] <lifeless> heh
[01:16] <lifeless> sfllaw will be mailing us after he eats
[01:16] <lifeless> with minutes
[01:17] <lifeless> I still want to chat with you :)
[01:17] <lifeless> can we make an appointment ?
[02:42] <mdz> lifeless: sorry, didn't see your message
[02:43] <mdz> lifeless: I have a few minutes now
[02:31] <zul> heylo
[04:44] <BenC> sweet, I just noticed that bcm43xx now supports signal strength and other stats in iwconfig
[04:44] <BenC> so now my network status applet actually looks like a wireless status :)
[04:50] <mjg59> BenC: Oh, yeah, that's a point. Any chance of pulling 43xx updates?
[04:50] <BenC> yeah, I can do that
[04:50] <mjg59> (And then reapplying the Mac stuff)
[04:50] <mjg59> Uh, PCI-E stuff
[04:50] <BenC> PCI-E and a few other things
[04:51] <mjg59> I'm also wondering if we should modify it so it tries to load the firmware on modprobe, and gives -ENODEV otherwise
[04:51] <mjg59> That would stop it showing up in the installer
[04:51] <mjg59> BenC: I sent you a couple of patches (one for avoiding pci=assign-busses, one for Sony hotkey support)
[04:53] <BenC> looks like it should be easy
[04:53] <BenC> ah, almost forgot about the pci= one
[04:55] <BenC> good thing is bcm43xx has a seperate function for loading the firmware from disk, and pushig it to the card
[04:55] <BenC> mjg59: I'll update to latest code and implement that
[04:57] <mjg59> BenC: Ta
[05:01] <BenC> mjg59: Do we have any bug reports related to the yenta fix?
[05:01] <mjg59> BenC: Nope
[05:01] <mjg59> Oh, yes
[05:01] <mjg59> elmo filed one yesterday
[05:02] <BenC> 43881, got it
[05:03] <BenC> note to self, it's bad to type a number in vim when not in insert mode, then enter insert mode, type the same number and exit insert mode
[05:03] <BenC> especially a number like 43881
[06:11] <BenC> badness
[06:12] <BenC> latest bcm43xx doesn't seem to like my G4...doesn't even create an interface
[06:49] <mjg59> BenC: Anything in dmesg?
[06:51] <BenC> mjg59: "bcm43xx driver" and that's it :)
[06:51] <mjg59> BenC: Suggests it's not binding to the PCI device
[06:52] <BenC> or it's failing some test of the device
[06:52] <BenC> the PCI id's are listed
[06:52] <BenC> I'm going to add some printk's to see what's up
[06:52] <mjg59> Hm. I'd expect output in that case
[06:52] <BenC> I checked the source, it fails silently in a few cases :/
[06:53] <mjg59> Oh, suck
[06:56] <BenC> oh, and the firmware bit wont work, there's not enough information at init_one to do the actual load
[06:56] <BenC> would require a lot of chip probing to get it right
[06:57] <mjg59> Suck
[12:02] <zul> hey