[12:02] <mdke> Runix: join it *again* and *I* will talk to you
[12:02] <Runix> ok
[12:02] <Runix> i understand now
[12:02] <zul> heylo
[12:02] <mjg59> crimsun: You saw the bug about vanishing mute LEDs?
[12:03] <crimsun> mjg59: a new one? No.
[12:03] <mjg59> crimsun: I Cc:ed you earlier
[12:03] <crimsun> gah, pulling up MUA now
[12:04] <mjg59> Looks like a subvendor id that we had locally but never went upstream
[12:04] <crimsun> mjg59: see it, reading now
[12:08] <mjg59> crimsun: Thanks
[12:15] <crimsun> mjg59: ok, thanks for that heads-up. #44066 (nc8230) should have different ids, since I applied a fix for #41015 that touches the nc8220.
[12:17] <pitti> crimsun: great! added to my todo list, will do tomorrow
[12:17] <crimsun> pitti: awesome, thank you very much
[12:20] <mjg59> Hurrah, etc.
[12:20] <ogra> heh
[12:21] <sabdfl> mjg59: cool!
[12:22] <mjg59> ogra: The ati driver wouldn't drive them anyway
[12:22] <ogra> oh, ok, then it makes sense
[12:23] <ogra> i thought you switched because the driver wasnt detecting radeon vs ati 
[12:23] <mdz> mjg59: using the IDs from the driver itself?  what was the delta like vs. discover-data?
[12:23] <mjg59> I just added all the hardware supported by the driver to the list
[12:23] <mjg59> mdz: 5 entries in the driver that weren't in discover-data
[12:23] <Burgwork> mjg59, what is the difference betweeen the ati and the radeon driver?
[12:23] <mjg59> Burgwork: ati is a meta-driver that loads the appropriate real driver
[12:24] <mdz> the trouble is that discover-data always needs updating to keep up with the driver
[12:24] <Burgwork> mjg59, ah, ok
[12:24] <mjg59> mdz: Post-dapper we'll probably be able to drive them again and can revert it
[12:24] <mjg59> But it doesn't look like we'll have support in time
[12:24] <mjg59> (for dapper)
[12:24] <mdz> mjg59: I don't suppose they're in a convenient table we could use to autogenerate the discover db
[12:25] <mdz> (or something better)
[12:25] <mjg59> mdz: Not really, no
[12:33] <tseng> infinity: I *think* beagle needs dep-wait cleared when my last upload goes into the queue
[12:36] <sladen> the i810 driver is just a bunch of #define's for the PCI-IDs it supports
[12:37] <Burgwork> sladen, that sounds ugly
[12:38] <mjg59> It's the same for all of them
[12:38] <Burgwork> isn't x a mess of ifdefs?
[12:38] <mjg59> Right now, in-X detection is a matter of loading every driver until you hit one that doesn't refuse to stick
[12:42] <mdz> tseng: I think that's supposed to be fully automatic these days
[12:42] <tseng> mdz: oh, thats clever
[12:42] <tseng> mdz: i was never quite sure which ones require manual intervention.. launchpad says "manual depwait"
[12:43] <tseng> mdz: did you sneak in a break yet? :)
[12:43] <mdz> tseng: yes, confusing terminology in this case
[12:43] <mdz> tseng: I replied to your emails
[12:43] <ogra> mjg59, having all such data in hal one day would so rock ... dexconf would only need some hal calls 
[12:44] <desrt> ogra; bah.  try having it in-kernel
[12:44] <tseng> mdz: I meant from the release circus
[12:44] <Burgwork> desrt, why are graphics and input drivers not in kernel?
[12:44] <desrt> ogra; pci device id of your vidcard causes the whole udev magic machine to load the right module which exposes a common interface
[12:44] <ogra> desrt, why ? its valuable data for hal you can use it ijn other areas as well
[12:45] <desrt> Burgwork; history :)
[12:45] <ogra> i.e. imagine hal knows you have two monitors and a xinerama capable HW :)
[12:45] <Burgwork> desrt, in kernel would require dual license or solaris/bsd/other unix to write their own drivers, no?
[12:45] <desrt> oh license bah
[12:46] <desrt> fglrx is in kernel and i'm fairly sure it's under somewhat more-gpl-incompat terms than X
[12:46] <ogra> fglrx is in kernel ??
[12:46] <desrt> but ya..  you hit on a big issue
[12:47] <desrt> having X drivers in X itself enables X to go between different OS kernels and take drivers with it
[12:47] <ogra> its a module, no ? 
[12:47] <mdz> tseng: that break comes on June 2nd
[12:47] <desrt> ogra; the drm parts are a kernel module
[12:47] <ogra> desrt, still not "in kernel" ...
[12:47] <desrt> ogra; not using it as an example of a video module so much as a piece of non-gpl code that gets linked to the kernel
[12:47] <Burgwork> mdz, no, on june everybody just gets flung off and has to pick themselves up and get back on again
[12:47] <mdz> tseng: unless you could the 13 or so hours on airplanes between now and then
[12:48] <mdz> s/could/count/
[12:48] <desrt> ogra; my example involves loading of modules... like fglrx
[12:48] <ogra> desrt, yes, but it sounded like there would be monolithic parts compiled into the kernel
[12:48] <ogra> as you said it
[12:48] <desrt> oh.  no.
[12:48] <ogra> :)
[12:50] <Chipzz> anyone noticing power-manager brokeness?
[12:51] <Chipzz> I have power-manager set to do nothing when closing the lid, but it tries to suspend nevertheless :/
[12:52] <desrt> do you have a powerpc?
[12:52] <Chipzz> which is *bad* in my case, since suspend to ram causes X to break very badly (X just goes in a never-ending loop of crashing on resume)
[12:52] <Chipzz> no, laptop
[12:52] <Chipzz> i386
[12:52] <Chipzz> pretty standard stuff actually
[12:54] <Chipzz> intel 915 display controller, *82801* for all the rest (except ethernet, which is working fine)
[01:11] <mjg59> Kamion: So I think I've figured out why the installer has problems with the BIOS emulation stuff on the mactels
[01:12] <mjg59> Kamion: parted is using the EFI partition table, rather than touching the MBR one that also exists
[01:12] <Keybuk> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/SoyuzCatchUp
[01:12] <Keybuk> ^ useful
[01:14] <mdz> mjg59: how did you end up with two partition tables?
[01:14] <mjg59> mdz: It's the way boot-camp works
[01:15] <mdz> ah, of course
[01:36] <Kinnison> mjg59: Do you still have that GPRS card, and would it be possible for me to borrow it this w/e?
[01:38] <darius_> do you have a gprs card working in ubuntu?? :)
[01:39] <jono> hi all
[01:39] <jono> I need to run a CVS version of gstreamer - is it possible to run this alongside my existing gstreamer? I know this is really for #gstreamer, but its rather silent in there
[01:47] <theCore> jono: I'm wandering, why do you need a CVS version of gst?
[01:47] <jono> theCore: I need to make use of recent bugfixes for hacking on Jokosher
[01:48] <theCore> jono: ah, ok
[01:48] <jono> any idea if I can run it alongside my current gst?
[01:48] <mdke> jono: you could try #ubuntu if no one helps here
[01:48] <jono> ok thanks
[01:55] <alp> any thoughts on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/reboot-halt-notification ?
[01:58] <mjg59> Kinnison: Yes and sure
[04:12] <infinity> Keybuk: With a few minor exceptions where ubiquity may reconfigre a package, it shouldn't be configuring anything, but just copying stuff verbatim from the livefs.
[04:15] <Keybuk> that's what I thought by looking at the code
[04:15] <Keybuk> so this needs an ickle patch to make /var/run and /var/lock on the root fs before mounting /var ;o)
[04:16] <crimsun> infinity: is there a rejected alsa-tools_1.0.10-1ubuntu1 in the upload queue?
[04:17] <Keybuk> do you mean is there an alsa-tools in the rejected queue? :)
[04:17] <crimsun> Keybuk: err, yes
[04:17] <Keybuk> not that I can see
[04:18] <Keybuk> isn't in any queue
[04:18] <crimsun> ok, so my uploads are being rejected once again.
[04:19] <Keybuk> I'm not sure where automatically-rejected uploads ends up
[04:19] <Keybuk> did you get a mail?
[04:19] <crimsun> none at all
[04:19] <Keybuk> where did you upload to?
[04:19] <crimsun> ubuntu universe
[04:19] <crimsun> dput ubuntu lalala_source.changes
[04:19] <Keybuk> got the changes file?
[04:20] <crimsun> http://sh.nu/~crimsun/uploads/alsa-tools_1.0.10-1ubuntu1_source.changes
[04:21] <Keybuk> and you definitely uploaded via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com into / ?
[04:21] <crimsun> I definitely did.
[04:21] <crimsun> I'll ping cprov in #launchpad tomorrow
[04:22] <Keybuk> it's not in any queue I can see, anyway; that doesn't mean it's not automatically rejected
[04:22] <Keybuk> I _could_ stick it through the queue manually and see what error I get <g>
[04:22] <crimsun> It's probably some amalgamation of the email-address-doesn't-match-preferred_address deal
[04:24] <elmo> Keybuk: eh, have you checked failed?
[04:24] <Keybuk> elmo: I don't have access to that, do I?
[04:24] <elmo> you have lp_archive, you have access to evarything
[04:25] <elmo> ./failed/upload-20060511-025657-004458/alsa-tools_1.0.10-1ubuntu1_source.changes
[04:25] <Keybuk> how do I see failed?
[04:25] <bddebian> w00t, go Keybuk
[04:25] <Keybuk> elmo: where's that?
[04:25] <elmo> Keybuk: I just do 'find /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/ -name blah.changes'
[04:25] <Keybuk> ah
[04:26] <Keybuk> does it log the reason anywhere?
[04:26] <elmo> no, that'd be useful
[04:26] <Keybuk> heh
[04:26] <elmo> the most common eason is wrong distro, but that's not the case here
[04:26] <elmo> it's signed by a key that's in ubuntu-dev  too
[04:29] <elmo> 02:02:04 DEBUG   UploadError made it out of .process() -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/2562322/eni8hMxxfUh1MStvmnZowPafK7f.txt (GPG verification of alsa-tools_1.0.10-1ubuntu1_source.changes failed: No public key)
[04:29] <elmo> Keybuk: /var/mail/lp_archive should be your next step, apparently
[04:30] <elmo> crimsun: did your key expire at any point?
[04:31] <elmo> crimsun: in any event, I suggest you file a bug on 'qprocd' about it, and quote that DEUBG line, mention that you're in ubuntu-dev etc. 
[04:32] <Keybuk> having the lp pubring.gpg somewhere would be useful
[04:33] <crimsun> elmo: ok, thanks.
[04:33] <crimsun> elmo: no, it hasn't expired (and won't til late June)
[04:36] <elmo> Keybuk: it fetches on demand, I think
[04:37] <lifeless> it will do
[04:37] <lifeless> IIRC its using the lp gpg infrastructure
[04:38] <Keybuk> yeah it is
[04:38] <lifeless> which means the keyring is in the database, and the keys are cached on the appserver for the lifetime of the process only
[04:38] <Keybuk> there must be some combination of host and username that lp_archive can run psql with, and see the real db
[04:38] <Keybuk> even if just readonly
[04:39] <Keybuk> oh, and guess what, it's the first thing that popped into my head
[04:40] <Keybuk> lifeless: ok, the fingerprint is recorded in the database ... where does it look for the public keys?
[04:40] <lifeless> keyserver.ubuntu.com
[04:40] <bddebian> Heya lifeless
[04:41] <lifeless> hey bddebian 
[04:41] <Keybuk> quest scott% gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-key 1FE80436CA130121E49B77DB7BD1B015C88ABDA3
[04:41] <Keybuk> gpg: requesting key C88ABDA3 from hkp server keyserver.ubuntu.com
[04:41] <Keybuk> gpg: key C88ABDA3: "Daniel T. Chen (new) <crimsun@fungus.sh.nu>" 6 new signatures
[04:41] <Keybuk> hmm
[04:41] <Keybuk> there's a public key there too
[04:42] <bddebian> Oh, speaking of which.  I just reset my key not to expire.  Do I need to send up to keyserver.ubuntu.com?
[04:42] <zakame> hi all
[04:42] <lifeless> send it to subkeys.pgp.net
[04:43] <bddebian> Thx lifeless
[04:45] <elmo> send it to keyserver.ubuntu.com
[04:45] <elmo> it's part of the global keyserver network
[04:45] <elmo> it'll propogate to subkeys et. al. automatically
[04:53] <elmo> uh
[04:53] <elmo> R. [  51: Ubuntu Installer    ]  Accepted alsa-tools 1.0.10-1ubuntu1 (source)
[04:55] <Keybuk> that might have been me <g>
[04:55] <Keybuk> and it may not have gone exxxactly right
[04:57] <crimsun> (it definitely wasn't me, though I did ask bddebian to upload since mine failed)
[04:58] <Keybuk> it made vague sense, that given it was a gpg key failure, stuffing it back in incoming might just work the second time
[04:58] <bddebian> Aye but you told me to wait so I haven't done it :-)
[04:58] <Keybuk> I checked it over and it was "ok"
[04:58] <Keybuk> but obviously sync-queue/incoming isn't quite "incoming"
[04:58] <Keybuk> now I know that <g>
[05:00] <Keybuk> out of interest, is there an actual incoming that you can get at on drescher?
[05:12] <Keybuk> s'ok found out how I'd attempt it next time <g>
[05:27] <zakame> fabbabbione: around?
[05:28] <zakame> gaah, dialup lag :'(
[05:33] <bddebian> zakame: So fix that :)
[05:35] <zakame> if I could, yes
[05:36] <zakame> however, I'm quite fortunate that I get around 5Kb of download rate even under a 14.4....
[05:36] <bddebian> Yeah not bad
[06:43] <fabbione> morning
[07:58] <Keybuk> infinity: nv driver works now
[07:58] <Keybuk> but is kinda sucky, not good speedwise and no DRI/GLX
[07:59] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, it's known to be not fantastic, but OTOH, it's stable, and generally "works".
[07:59] <Keybuk> "binary nasty" seems to work much better
[08:01] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, it's known to be not fantastic, but OTOH, it's stable, and generally "works".
[08:01] <infinity> In your case, though, with a shiny SLI rig, the binary driver's probably the "right" one.
[08:01] <Keybuk> in all of my experience, the nv driver is shoddy and unreliable and it's the nvidia one that's stable and generallt works
[08:02] <Keybuk> *shrugs*
[08:02] <Keybuk> (II) Primary Device is: PCI 01:00:0
[08:02] <Keybuk> (WW) NV: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:2:0:0) found
[08:02] <Keybuk> (--) Chipset GeForce 7800 GTX found
[08:02] <Keybuk> heh
[08:02] <Keybuk> I guess nv doesn't "do" SLI then
[08:02] <infinity> No, it doesn't.
[08:03] <infinity> There'd be no point anyway, since it doesn't do DRI either.
[08:03] <Keybuk> it doesn't even seem to do PCIe
[08:03] <infinity> I can't imagine that SLI drastically improves your 2D rendering experience. :)
[08:03] <Keybuk> the nv log doesn't mention PCIe at all
[08:04] <Keybuk> the nvidia one at least has a comforting message about using PCIe
[08:04] <infinity> Heh.
[08:04] <Keybuk> using PCI to talk to a graphics card seems plain dumb
[08:04] <Keybuk> no wonder the window was painting across the screen when I dragged it <g>
[08:05] <infinity> The 2D drawing in nvidia is really quite well accelerated too.
[08:05] <infinity> I really wish they'd give back to the open source driver a bit more. :/
[08:05] <infinity> nvidia's binary drivers beat the pants off ati's shoddy offering.
[08:05] <infinity> (fglrx is crap... Seriously... Horrible)
[08:08] <desrt> oddly, my ati problems had nothing to do with linux
[08:09] <Keybuk> yeah, I had a run of bad ATI cards
[08:09] <Keybuk> the last one wouldn't give any monitor info
[08:09] <Keybuk> one before that blew up, one before that died, etc.
[08:10] <infinity> I've been an nvidia fanboy for ages (Since my first Riva128, actually), but that doesn't prevent me from whining about their closed-source binary-only ARGH.
[08:10] <desrt> this one would randomly (~20%) decide that my monitor was on the SVGA port when turned on (and drive output there instead of my DVI port)
[08:10] <desrt> for values of "turned on" == power on, reboot, just before loading grub, whenever switching between console and X, etc, etc...
[08:10] <infinity> And if you want to use only free drivers, radeons are much better supported.
[08:28] <infinity> Anyone have any objections to me transitioning all over universe to libmysqlclient15 to avoid whacky segfaults when mixing main/universe packages in the same memory space?
[08:28] <infinity> s/all over/all of/
[08:28] <infinity> (And so I can drop libmysqlclient-lgpl and mysql-dfsg_4.0 from the archive)
[08:29] <fabbione> infinity: i am ok with it..
[08:40] <pitti> Good morning
[08:42] <Keybuk> morning berpitti
[08:45] <zyga> hello
[08:47] <zyga> I'd like to report/debug network manager issue: I have a laptop with a built-in wired and pcmcia wifi card, network manager sees only the wired card. I am using foss bcm34xx drivers, what should I do to get NM to notice it?
[08:47] <zyga> (the card obviously works)
[08:47] <Keybuk> file a bug upstream, attaching output of NetworkManager --no-daemon
[08:47] <Keybuk> though I've heard numerous reports that it sees it just fine
[08:48] <infinity> zyga: Also, make sure the card IS working (do ifconfig and iwconfig see it, etc?)
[08:48] <zyga> infinity: I'm talking over wifi now :)
[08:48] <zyga> infinity: all tools see it, including network-admin
[08:49] <infinity> zyga: Oh, then it's an Ubuntu feature you're banging your head against, probably.
[08:49] <infinity> zyga: Try removing the config for the card from /etc/network/interfaces and restarting NM.
[08:49] <zyga> checking
[08:49] <zyga> infinity: for both cards or just the wifi?
[08:50] <infinity> Well, if NM is seeing the wired card, make the wireless card looks similar. :)
[08:50] <infinity> (I suspect the wired is "auto eth0\niface eth0 inet dhcp")
[08:50] <zyga> works :D
[08:50] <Keybuk> oh, that's a good point
[08:51] <zyga> wow 
[08:51] <zyga> quite nice :D
[08:52] <zyga> :>
[08:52] <Keybuk> what is?
[08:52] <zyga> thanks
[08:52] <zyga> I have commented out everything except for lo
[08:52] <zyga> I'll attach a wired cable now
[08:55] <zyga> this stuff rocks
[08:55] <infinity> When it works, it's pretty cool, yeah.
[08:55] <infinity> When it doesn't, it makes you want to apply a fork to your eye.
[08:56] <infinity> (I have several forks in my eyes at this point)
[08:56] <Keybuk> it makes me want to apply a fork to DanW and RML's eyes
[08:57] <thom> Keybuk: well, you have experience with the former part of that sentence i'm sure...
[08:57] <Keybuk> other Dan
[08:57] <Keybuk> Dan Williams != Dan Winship
[08:58] <thom> ah well
[09:00] <thom> there goes that joke then ;-)
[09:05] <pitti> hi zyga
[09:08] <pitti> zyga: hey again :)
[09:08] <zyga> pitti: hey :)
[09:08] <zyga> I just got network manager working on my laptop and it's a true joy to use :>
[09:13] <pitti> zyga: cool
[09:13] <Treenaks> Too bad it uses gnome-keyring-manager, which asks for my OLD password to store stuff in the keyring
[09:13] <pitti> zyga: yesterday you asked me about wireless on my desktop, but then you disappeared - do you still have a question?
[09:13] <Treenaks> And password changing for gnome-keyring seems impossible
[09:14] <zyga> pitti: yeah, does the ibook wifi (broadcom AFAIR) card work on dapper?
[09:14] <infinity> Treenaks: Install gnome-keyring-manager
[09:14] <pitti> zyga: yes, it does (the airport extreme)
[09:15] <zyga> pitti: did you have to do anything to get the firmware?
[09:16] <Treenaks> infinity: why isn't it standard functionality?
[09:16] <pitti> zyga: yes, use bcm43xx-fwcutter to grab it from MacOS or the driver CD
[09:16] <infinity> Treenaks: Because keyring-manager sucks.
[09:16] <infinity> Treenaks: AFAICT, you'll still need to delete your default keyring and recreate it to change the passphrase.
[09:16] <zyga> right, I used third-party apt repo to get that (i know it's not legal)
[09:16] <Treenaks> infinity: hm.. great..
[09:23] <Kinnison> Morning all
[09:25] <fabbione> morning Kinnison 
[09:25] <Kinnison> Hi fabbione
[09:28] <infinity> Kinnison: You'll get over it... :)
[09:29] <Kinnison> infinity: I'm sure I will, s'just that I was up until all hours (about 2am) packing boxes
[09:29] <Kinnison> since I can't pack during work hours
[09:30] <Keybuk> that's what I shall put on my limited edition t-shirts
[09:30] <infinity> Time for a book burning party?
[09:30] <Keybuk> "NOT A CORE HOUR ACTIVITY"
[09:30] <Kinnison> Keybuk: perfect
[09:42] <dholbach> good morning
[09:43] <Kinnison> hi daniel
[09:43] <netstar> LP upgrade?
[09:43] <dholbach> Hey Daniel!
[09:44] <Kinnison> netstar: that was yesterday
[09:44] <netstar> :)
[09:47] <netstar> Does anyone know how to log in and adminstrate cups via the web interface, lppasswd does not work and ipp config is broken, cups reports unauthorized attempts to resume the printer, is their a known issue or something?
[09:48] <netstar> *there
[09:54] <mdz> development team meeting in 6 minutes
[09:55] <Kamion> mjg59: I still think bootcamp might be too horrible to actually use properly
[09:57] <Kamion> Keybuk: how do /var/run and /var/lock get created in the normal installer then?
[09:58] <Kamion> Keybuk: sync-queue/incoming/ er kind of ignores GPG signatures. :)
[10:01] <Keybuk> Kamion: by initscripts postinst script
[10:01] <Keybuk> (probably should be base-files, but that's largely irrelevant)
[10:01] <Keybuk> I perpared a "hacky" quick fix
[10:01] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/bzr/ubiquity/
[10:01] <Keybuk> (damn, that's hard to spell :p)
[10:02] <Keybuk> it also fixes another bug -- that ubiquiuiuiuty doesn't write /etc/iftab the same as netcfg
[10:02] <mjg59> Kamion: It may be more practical than the alternative
[10:05] <infinity> Keybuk: Err, the directories are created by a postinst?... Why not just ship them in a .deb?
[10:05] <Keybuk> infinity: because the directories need to be created on the root filesystem
[10:05] <Keybuk> not on whatever filesystem happens to be mounted on /var :)
[10:06] <Keybuk> so there's a bit of bind-mount-magic
[10:06] <Keybuk> otherwise one can't mount /var/run or /var/lock until after you've mounted /var
[10:06] <infinity> Keybuk: But nothing should need either until /var exists anyway.. No?
[10:06] <Keybuk> no
[10:07] <Keybuk> the point of /var/run and /var/lock is that they're writable places for the entire boot
[10:07] <Keybuk> /var isn't mounted until reasonably late
[10:07] <infinity> This was never a problem before all this hackery began..
[10:07] <Keybuk> certainly well after things like udev, ifupdown, dhclient, ntpdate, etc. are running
[10:07] <infinity> I never had anythig that wanted to write to /var/run before /var was mounted.
[10:07] <Keybuk> it wasn't a problem until we started relying on udev
[10:07] <infinity> Oh, I see.  Ick.
[10:08] <Keybuk> once you rely on udev, you need a tmpfs for pid files
[10:08] <Keybuk> otherwise there's a bit of a chicken and egg problem
[10:09] <Keybuk> if udev is creating /dev nodes and starting services, then it can't start services until after the device node for any filesystem they need has been created
[10:09] <Keybuk> the two options to fix it were
[10:10] <Keybuk> a) two partial udevplugs during boot, one to deal with important nodes and then one after filesystems are mounted and checked to actually start things
[10:10] <Keybuk> b) just make /var/run a tmpfs
[10:10] <Keybuk> a has the obvious problem you can't have an NFS /usr ;)
[10:11] <infinity> Yeah, I see the issue now.  It's just all rather icky. :)
[10:11] <Keybuk> actually, I think it's somewhat elegant
[10:11] <Keybuk> having a tmpfs for pid files makes sense
[10:11] <Keybuk> as you never need them after reboot *anyway*
[10:12] <Keybuk> and we've since been able to use /var/run as a "transient" directory
[10:12] <infinity> Oh, no, having it as a tmpfs makes sense.  It's the bindmount moving trickery that's icky.
[10:12] <Keybuk> it solved the ifup-using-/etc bug, for example
[10:12] <Keybuk> oh, yah, that bit was icky
[10:12] <Keybuk> but it's only done once, at install time
[10:13] <looksaus> hi all, I'm a bit hesitant to interrupt you in what must be _very_ busy days, but...
[10:14] <looksaus> I think I might have reported a major ppc bug in gecko based browsersalmost four weeks ago, and I'm not certain it got the attention needed
[10:15] <looksaus> I have confirmation from at least one other powerpc users
[10:15] <looksaus> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/40067
[10:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[10:16] <looksaus> it basicly makes the major desktop component unusable, so looks quite serious to me...
[10:17] <looksaus> oh sorry, people just telling me most of you are in a meeting
[10:29] <pitti> crimsun: I did your alsa-{lib,utils} uploads, thanks
[10:36] <seb128> grrrr that "QuickStart.." guy crossposting on a zillion on lists every mail he sent
[10:36] <ogra> yep :(
[10:37] <sfllaw> He thinks he's helping, too.
[10:37] <sfllaw> You sorta don't want to crush his enthusiasm.
[10:37] <Treenaks> He's basically removing whitespace from XML files, right?
[10:38] <seb128> he's not doing anything useful
[10:38] <sfllaw> Treenaks: Yes.
[10:38] <Kamion> Keybuk: I think I might prefer to do it in partman while it's mounting filesystems
[10:38] <Kamion> less hacky
[10:38] <ogra> he's deleting xml files with rm -rf in his script 
[10:38] <seb128> sfllaw: he claims that his schemas change speed-up applications but schemas are only used at installation
[10:38] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, that might be more appropriate; I wasn't sure I was up for touching partman closely
[10:38] <sfllaw> Parsing text files takes almost no time.
[10:38] <Keybuk> but was sure you'd prefer a solution available, whether you chose it or not
[10:38] <Treenaks> seb128: he's probably seeing disk-cached startup instead of non-cached startup
[10:38] <Keybuk> you want the iftab change though :)
[10:39] <Kamion> Keybuk: nod, just merging that now
[10:39] <seb128> right
[10:39] <seb128> Treenaks: likley
[10:39] <seb128> but I would appreciate him not trying to push stuff to user than can break their gconf database but playing with the .xml
[10:40] <pitti> Keybuk: would it be considered evil if cupsys' init script would load 'lp' and 'ppdev' modules?
[10:40] <Keybuk> pitti: not especially evil, no
[10:40] <pitti> Keybuk: I get thousands of bugs due to a missing lp module, and ppdev fixes parallel printer autodetection
[10:42] <AlinuxOS> carlos, hello amigo, question: will Kubuntu (KDE) imported into rosetta ?
[10:42] <carlos> AlinuxOS: it's already there
[10:43] <Riddell> carlos: I should do an announcement to the KDE translators
[10:43] <pitti> Riddell: new langpacks are scheduled for tomorrow, btw
[10:43] <carlos> Riddell: I'm should do the global announcement for Dapper, don't worry
[10:43] <carlos>  s/I'm/I/
[10:43] <Riddell> pitti: cool, that should please lots of people
[10:43] <carlos> pitti: could we do it weekly automatically?
[10:44] <persia> pitti: I noticed you have targeted the 2 CDROM issue for dapper.  Do you have a test case, or could I help collect necessary data?
[10:44] <carlos> I think you said is possible but that you need some extra scripts
[10:45] <AlinuxOS> carlos, is there Kubuntu page ?
[10:45] <pitti> carlos: not fully automatically, but I can do automatic builds, so I only need to grab and test them, and upload if appropriate
[10:45] <pitti> persia: currently I don't even understand the bug yet, but it shouldn't be hard to fix once I do; helping with explaining the issue in detail would be highly appreciated
[10:45] <carlos> AlinuxOS: no, sorry, is all together with other Ubuntu packages
[10:45] <pitti> persia: it just seems worth to be fixed in dapper
[10:46] <AlinuxOS> https://launchpad.net/distros here I mean
[10:46] <AlinuxOS> sh
[10:46] <carlos> AlinuxOS: we will improve it to split packages per context, like GNOME, KDE, XFCE and base
[10:46] <carlos> AlinuxOS: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+translations
[10:46] <AlinuxOS> ah so the is no kubuntu refference at the moment. I understand now.
[10:46] <carlos> AlinuxOS: right, KUbuntu uses Ubuntu's archive
[10:47] <AlinuxOS> I understand.. :)
[10:47] <AlinuxOS> so you will separate them right ?
[10:47] <AlinuxOS> in near future.
[10:47] <Riddell> AlinuxOS: what language will you be translating into?
[10:47] <persia> pitti: OK.  I'll try to describe it again differently in the bug, in the hopes of providing an explanation.  Feel free to ping me if you have questions.
[10:49] <pitti> persia: thanks; a detailed description of the devices, fstab, and steps how to get the bug would rock
[10:49] <AlinuxOS> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/ka Riddell at the moment I'm Georgian GNOME Translators team coordinator/translator and Ubuntu Team translator/administrator and great Ubuntu Distribution User :)
[10:50] <AlinuxOS> Ubuntu Lover/User/Translator :)
[10:51] <pitti> mdz: btw, wrt your meeting question, my dapper-6.06 bug list is now up to date
[10:52] <AlinuxOS> carlos, when will you sepparate GNOME/KDE in Dapper distribution ?
[10:53] <carlos> AlinuxOS: I don't have it scheduled yet
[10:53] <AlinuxOS> carlos, ok :)
[10:53] <carlos> but when it's done will be done for all releases
[10:53] <carlos> at the same time
[10:53] <Riddell> I don't know if that's a good idea, would probably mean less translations for Kubuntu
[10:53] <AlinuxOS> great
[10:54] <AlinuxOS> so there is no decided package list for future Dapper CD ?
[10:54] <ogra> carlos, could you think about making separate kdeedu langpacks for edgy ? it would help edubuntu a lot in case we cant drop kdeedu then
[10:54] <AlinuxOS> Riddell, why ?
[10:55] <Riddell> ogra: langpacks are done by pitti
[10:55] <carlos> ogra: that's a question for pitti
[10:55] <ogra> ah, k
[10:55] <ogra> i'll keep it for paris then :)
[10:55] <pitti> ogra: yes, let's discuss that there
[10:55] <Riddell> AlinuxOS: I wonder if ubuntu users would then not bother to translate kubuntu packages
[10:55] <pitti> ogra: we can certainly find a good solution
[10:55] <ogra> yep
[10:55] <carlos> Riddell: we are not going to split the packages outside Ubuntu, we are going to classify them
[10:56] <AlinuxOS> I was asked some days ago, there was some group of person that wanted to translate Kubuntus specific packages.
[10:56] <ogra> well, the best one would be to be able to drop the kde stuff :)
[10:56] <carlos> Riddell: so you can see if a package is a GNOME, KDE, XFCE, or system package
[10:56] <carlos> and concentrate on the set of packages you are insterested
[10:57] <AlinuxOS> Riddell, if you want the truh :) Sadly in georgia there is more KDE/Kubuntu users than GNOME users :) (It our specific situation)
[10:57] <AlinuxOS> don't know for other teams :)
[10:57] <Treenaks> Most of our stuff gets translated upstream (Dutch)
[10:58] <AlinuxOS> so I'm sure that there will be more Kubuntu translators then Ubuntu/GNOME translators.
[10:58] <Riddell> excellent :)
[10:58] <AlinuxOS> carlos, a question: is it possible to translate Ubuntu Live Espresso installer into Georgian ?
[10:59] <AlinuxOS> and if it possible, how?
[10:59] <Riddell> AlinuxOS: yes, espresso is called ubiquity now
[10:59] <AlinuxOS> great
[10:59] <carlos> AlinuxOS: translate the debian installer
[10:59] <carlos> AlinuxOS: the translations are integrated there
[10:59] <AlinuxOS> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/k3b/+pots/k3b/ka/+translate is there K3b package ? 
[11:00] <carlos> AlinuxOS: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/debian-installer/+pots/debian-installer
[11:00] <carlos> AlinuxOS: yes, there is
[11:01] <AlinuxOS> carlos, our georgian bitmap/monotype font is under construcion... our team will test them in the near future (days I hope)
[11:01] <AlinuxOS> so I would like to start importing into our page..
[11:01] <AlinuxOS> ah ok
[11:02] <AlinuxOS> carlos, and how about k3b, I have ka.po file rady :) 
[11:03] <AlinuxOS> https://launchpad.net/products/?text=ubiquity Riddell can't find ubiquity, maybe it's not imported at the moment?
[11:03] <carlos> AlinuxOS: upload it and the next language pack build will get it
[11:03] <carlos> AlinuxOS: it's a distro package
[11:03] <AlinuxOS> carlos, allredy done
[11:03] <carlos> that's a search form for packages
[11:04] <Keybuk> fabbione: my sister got a kitten a couple of weeks ago
[11:04] <Keybuk> ...the dog ate it yesterday
[11:04] <Riddell> AlinuxOS: ignore me, as carlos says it's debian-installer that needs translated, ubiquity uses the strings from that
[11:04] <ogra> Keybuk, huh ? 
[11:04] <carlos> AlinuxOS: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+search?text=ubiquity
[11:04] <ogra> what kind of evil dog do you have ? 
[11:04] <fabbione> Keybuk: ehhe
[11:04] <Keybuk> ogra: not me, my dog is fluffy
[11:04] <ogra> heh
[11:05] <Keybuk> her dog is quite rough though
[11:05] <ogra> but thats really evil 
[11:05] <AlinuxOS> carlos, can't fint translations page :) sorry 
[11:05] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/debian-installer/+pots/debian-installer
[11:05] <Kamion> as carlos said earlier
[11:06] <mdke> Znarl: thanks for the wiki! does henrik have access to the wiki theme stuff too, as well as the static webspace? We need to do some theme and config tweaking
[11:06] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, ah so to have ubiquity translated, firs we must translate debisn-installer
[11:07] <AlinuxOS> and ubiquity automatically shows debian-installe's strings right ?
[11:08] <carlos> AlinuxOS: sort of, yes
[11:08] <AlinuxOS> ok
[11:08] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: I manually import them, but yes
[11:08] <AlinuxOS> :) as I see there is no ubiquity translations :) so it's debian-installer :)
[11:08] <AlinuxOS> ok
[11:08] <AlinuxOS> guys thank you :) must run
[11:09] <AlinuxOS> seeya!
[11:09] <AlinuxOS> carlos, pitti Riddell Kamion thank you :)
[11:10] <AlinuxOS> thank you all! :)
[11:10] <carlos> AlinuxOS: you are welcome
[11:10] <Znarl> mdke : Yes, Henrik does have access.
[11:10] <mdke> Znarl: manifique
[11:12] <mdke> Znarl: thanks a lot, really appreciate your work on that
[11:13] <klugez> renice lets normal users to give processes negative values in dapper
[11:13] <klugez> http://pastebin.com/711061
[11:14] <klugez> people on an IRC channel just found it out
[11:14] <klugez> as far as i know, nobody has filed a bug about it yet
[11:14] <Keybuk> kooky
[11:16] <Keybuk> paperboy scott% renice -10 $$
[11:16] <Keybuk> renice: 16238: setpriority: Permission denied
[11:16] <Keybuk> quest scott% renice -10 $$
[11:16] <Keybuk> 15413: old priority 0, new priority -10
[11:16] <Keybuk> iz BenC bug
[11:17] <pitti> Keybuk: paperboy is breezy?
[11:17] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah
[11:17] <pitti> urgh, works here as well
[11:19] <doko_> mdz: bug 25978: does your comment "we should sync" imply an agreement to update from 2.7.5 to 2.7.6?
[11:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 25978 in antlr "antlr-2.7.5/examples/java/unicode.IDENTs/ShowString.java fails DFSG #1" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/25978
[11:19] <Kinnison> FYI, stracing it, it seems setpriority(PRIO_PROCESS,$PID,-val) seems to "succeed" but set it to +30
[11:19] <Kinnison> most odd
[11:19] <Keybuk> it does set it to -10
[11:19] <Kinnison> pitti: shall we chat about the atconsole bit in about 10 minutes? I need to grab something for breakfast
[11:19] <Kinnison> getpriority(PRIO_PROCESS, 22163)        = 10
[11:19] <Kinnison> setpriority(PRIO_PROCESS, 22163, -10)   = 0
[11:19] <Kinnison> getpriority(PRIO_PROCESS, 22163)        = 30
[11:19] <mdz> doko_: if it does't break reverse build-deps, yes
[11:19] <Keybuk> quest scott% ps -p 15493 -l
[11:19] <Keybuk> F S   UID   PID  PPID  C PRI  NI ADDR SZ WCHAN  TTY          TIME CMD
[11:19] <Keybuk> 0 S  1000 15493 12775  0  66 -10 -  5634 -      pts/3    00:00:00 zsh
[11:20] <pitti> Kinnison: (how did you do that bold text?) yes, sure
[11:20] <doko_> ok
[11:20] <Kinnison> pitti: in irssi-text, surround things with ctrl+B
[11:20] <Kinnison> pitti: like this :-)
[11:20] <pitti> hello world!
[11:20] <Kinnison> indeed
[11:20] <pitti> wow, works in xchat, too
[11:20] <seb128> mdz: about bug #31775
[11:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31775 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu should have better links to support options" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31775
[11:20] <Kinnison> It has the advantage that it works with spaces, where *foo* doesn't I think
[11:21] <Keybuk>                                 if (p->uid == who) {
[11:21] <Keybuk>                                         niceval = 20 - task_nice(p);
[11:21] <Keybuk> that's why you get 30
[11:22] <Keybuk> the kernel totally doesn't expect user processes to have negative numbers ;)
[11:22] <Keybuk> so it's set to -10, the kernel just doesn't cope with returning that <g>
[11:22] <seb128> mdz: that's the change we discussed during UI sprint, could you or mark or anybody decide on that so it can be applied? We still lack URIs to point to and exact wording ...
[11:22] <mdke> Kinnison: I'm still seeing the dreaded bug #33072 (or at least the symtoms)
[11:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33072 in gnome-power-manager "Pulling AC plug suspends computer" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33072
[11:22] <Keybuk> anyone got a Debian box on 2.6.15 ?
[11:23] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: yes, why?
[11:23] <pitti> Keybuk: will 2.6.16.11 do as well? (my server)
[11:23] <Kamion> Keybuk: 2.6.16 but not 2.6.15
[11:23] <Keybuk> see if it works on those
[11:23] <Kinnison> mdke: Have you recorded a gnome-power-manager --no-daemon --verbose trace of the latest version exhibiting the bug?
[11:23] <Keybuk> narrows down Kernel vs. Ubuntu bug
[11:23] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~>$ renice -10 $$
[11:23] <Kamion> renice: 12313: setpriority: Permission denied
[11:23] <mdke> Kinnison: no, I will try.
[11:23] <pitti> (2.6.16.14 on mine)
[11:23] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~>$ uname -a
[11:23] <Kamion> Linux cairhien 2.6.16-1-powerpc #2 Tue Apr 25 15:16:02 CEST 2006 ppc GNU/Linux
[11:24] <pitti> Keybuk: renice -10 $$ fails on 2.6.16.14 upstream
[11:24] <Mithrandir> Linux aine.err.no 2.6.15-1-powerpc #2 Mon Mar 6 12:39:17 CET 2006 ppc GNU/Linux
[11:24] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@aine ~ > sudo renice -10 $$
[11:24] <Mithrandir> Password:
[11:24] <Mithrandir> 22501: old priority 0, new priority -10
[11:24] <Kamion> Mithrandir: not as root
[11:24] <pitti> Mithrandir: I think he wanted to know as normal user
[11:24] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: normal user :p
[11:25] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@aine ~ > renice -10 $$
[11:25] <Mithrandir> renice: 22501: setpriority: Ikke tilgang
[11:25] <Mithrandir> (permission denied)
[11:25] <mdke> Kinnison: it doesn't seem to be reproducable every time any more. I'll keep trying
[11:25] <pitti> so, upstream seems to be fine and it's an ubuntu kernel bug
[11:25] <Kinnison> mdke: Remember, we think it's to do with lid status confusion, so you may have to play about with that too.
[11:25] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: that's non-Ubuntu 2.6.15 ?
[11:25] <Kinnison> mdke: don't worry about making a big logfile, I can grep it when it comes time
[11:25] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah, just about to compare the setpriority() functions
[11:26] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: that's debian 2.6.15, whatever's in testing.
[11:26] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: 2.6.15-8, it seems
[11:30] <Keybuk> ok
[11:31] <Keybuk> so we have exactly the same implementation as 2.6.16.15
[11:34] <mjg59> I blame pam
[11:35] <Keybuk> mjg59: why pam?
[11:35] <mjg59> minimum niceness is an rlimit
[11:35] <mjg59> (judging by can_nice in kernel/sched.c)
[11:35] <mdz> seb128: I thought it was final; if not, please email Mark
[11:36] <seb128> mdz: what was final? The current implementation or the bug description?
[11:36] <mdz> seb128: the current menu and hyperlinks
[11:36] <seb128> ok, I'll mail mark then
[11:36] <mdz> thanks
[11:36] <seb128> and there is probably one extra item to add still according to the mail you forwarded to me
[11:36] <mjg59> So something's setting rlim[RLIMIT_NICE]  inappropriately
[11:37] <Mithrandir> mjg59: ulimit -e on Debian and Ubuntu returns different values, so I agree with you
[11:37] <Mithrandir> (0 and unlimited)
[11:37] <mdke> Kinnison: well so far I can't reproduce it at all :-( will keep trying
[11:37] <mjg59> http://ubuntustudio.com/wiki/index.php/Devel:Rlimits-Aware_PAM
[11:38] <mjg59> I blame the music people :p
[11:38] <Kamion> yeah
[11:38] <Kamion> I applied that patch though, it *seemed* right
[11:39] <Kamion> well, with modifications to be more-right
[11:39] <mjg59> Where does the default get set?
[11:39] <Keybuk> indeed, RLIMIT_NICE is RLIM_INFINITY
[11:39] <mjg59> My suspicion is that it ends up as unlimited if not explicitly set?
[11:40] <Kamion> perhaps, although shouldn't the kernel have a sane default?
[11:40] <Kamion> unless pam's setting it to unlimited
[11:41] <mjg59> The kernel seems to set it to 0 (include/asm-generic/resource.h)
[11:41] <mjg59> Hm. I can't see anywhere where pam /could/ set it to unlimited, though
[11:42] <Keybuk> isn't "0" actually -20
[11:42] <mjg59> Keybuk: No
[11:42] <Keybuk> oh, no, 0 would be 20
[11:42] <mjg59> Well, 19
[11:43] <mjg59>             limit_value = 19 - limit_value;
[11:43] <Keybuk> mjg59: the kernel tends to do 20 - value
[11:43] <Keybuk> though doesn't seem to on that
[11:44] <mjg59> Keybuk: From the userspace point of view, it's -20 to +19
[11:44] <Keybuk> yeah, from kernel pov it's 1 to 40 isn't it?
[11:44] <mjg59> Yes
[11:44] <Kamion> pam sets all limits to RLIM_INFINITY by default
[11:44] <Kamion> (init_limits)
[11:44] <mjg59> Kamion: Doh. Right.
[11:44] <mjg59> That'll be the problem, then.
[11:45] <Kamion> though only if getrlimit() returns -1
[11:45] <Kamion> (so why is getrlimit() returning -1 if the kernel sets a default?)
[11:45] <mjg59> Kamion: Unsure
[11:45] <Kamion> would be nice to see an strace of pam_limits in action
[11:46] <Kamion> init_limits has a few manual overrides anyway (core, stack); if that's the problem it's simple to add to them
[11:46] <pitti> Kamion: wrt. bug 14597, my current plan is to add all gimp-help-* but the -en one to the language-support-* packages, so that we can fix the bug at least for all non-English speakers; do you think it would be appropriate to change the seeds to not add l-support-en to the CD (and only seed a subset instead)?
[11:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 14597 in gimp "Gimp help files are not installed by default" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/14597
[11:46] <Keybuk> hmm
[11:46] <Keybuk> I read init_limits the other way
[11:47] <Keybuk> I read it as setting to RLIM_INFINITY if it's NOT already -1
[11:47] <Kamion> er, yeah, good point
[11:47] <Keybuk>         int r = getrlimit(i, &pl->limits[i] .limit);
[11:47] <Keybuk>         if (r == -1) {
[11:47] <Kamion> I think I need breakfast, coffee, and *then* pam hacking
[11:47] <Keybuk>         } else {
[11:47] <Keybuk>             pl->limits[i] .limit.rlim_cur = RLIM_INFINITY;
[11:47] <mjg59> strace doesn't know about RLIMIT_NICE, but:
[11:47] <mjg59> 22400 getrlimit(0xd /* RLIMIT_??? */, {rlim_cur=RLIM_INFINITY, rlim_max=RLIM_INFINITY}) = 0
[11:47] <Keybuk> this kind of hacking is the best coffee :)
[11:47] <mjg59> 22400 getrlimit(0xe /* RLIMIT_??? */, {rlim_cur=RLIM_INFINITY, rlim_max=RLIM_INFINITY}) = 0
[11:47] <Kamion> nice is 13
[11:47] <Kamion> er, 0xd
[11:48] <mdke> I'm quite curious about these "speed up Ubuntu" emails, does anyone know why 2 copies of each mail are arriving to the various mailing lists included?
[11:48] <mjg59> So getrlimit returns 0 and it gets set to RLIM_INFINITY?
[11:48] <Keybuk> that's just setting up data structures
[11:48] <Keybuk> where does it setrlimit ?
[11:49] <mjg59> 22400 setrlimit(0xd /* RLIMIT_??? */, {rlim_cur=RLIM_INFINITY, rlim_max=RLIM_INFINITY}) = 0
[11:49] <Keybuk> oh, it does them all in setup_limits
[11:49] <mjg59> Blatantly PAM
[11:49] <mjg59> Yay I win
[11:49] <Kamion> is it just me or is pam also using the 2.6.12 (broken) off-by-one semantics for nice?
[11:49] <Keybuk> mjg59: as a reward, you get to fix it :p
[11:49] <fabbione> infinity: new evdev is in and should fix the FTBFS at least on ia64..
[11:49] <mjg59> lamont: Entirely possible
[11:49] <Kamion> I don't mind fixing it up
[11:49] <mjg59> Erm
[11:50] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes
[11:50] <mjg59> Kamion: Entirely possible
[11:51] <Keybuk> klugez: thanks, btw
[11:51] <klugez> Keybuk: no problem
[11:58] <pitti> doko_: what about openoffice.org-help-lt? IIRC that was the one I recently dropped from l-support-lt, right? it appears in anastacia, should it be demoted/removed/?
[11:59] <Keybuk> that's the help thingy I was on about in the meeting
[11:59] <doko_> pitti: once -l10n builds again, that can be removed
[12:00] <pitti> doko_: ah, ok
[12:03] <seb128> Keybuk: you do initscripts? Somebody on #ubuntu-bugs was pointing bug #32455 which has a patch ...
[12:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32455 in initscripts "Mount points including spaces are not umounted at shutdown" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32455
[12:03] <zakame> hi all
[12:04] <Kamion> it's probably a broken fstab; you have to encode spaces as %040 or something in fstab
[12:04] <zakame> infinity: ping
[12:04] <Kamion> though maybe not
[12:04] <ogra> wuld it be possible that we can get the ooo2 uninstallables from the daily CD reports ? to please my tidiness ?
[12:05] <seb128> Kamion: the bug description uses "\040", isn't that correct?
[12:06] <Kamion> seb128: yeah, sorry, I made my comment before reading the bug, ignore me
[12:06] <seb128> np ;)
[12:07] <Keybuk> grr
[12:07] <Keybuk> why does Malone do that?
[12:07] <Keybuk> there's NO SUCH PACKAGE as initscripts
[12:07] <Keybuk> yet, there the bug is, failed against it
[12:07] <Keybuk> "initscripts" source package in ubuntu:
[12:07] <Keybuk> There is no current release for this source package in Ubuntu
[12:08] <Keybuk> wow
[12:08] <Keybuk> there's a whole little collection of bugs filed against it too
[12:08] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/initscripts/+bugs i see them
[12:08] <Kamion> it's a binary package not a source
[12:08] <seb128> Keybuk: that's the "accept binary package as source package" issue which is a known one
[12:08] <Keybuk> eww
[12:08] <Keybuk> those should all be filed against sysvinit
[12:08] <seb128> right
[12:08] <ogra> Kamion, then its shouldnt have bugs under the above url :)
[12:08] <Keybuk> and then they would have appeared in my bug list
[12:09] <pitti> mjg59: I assume there's little to no hope for our dbus-foreground patch?
[12:09] <seb128> Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/37866
[12:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37866 in malone "+editstatus should not accept binary package as source package" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[12:09] <ogra> ah
[12:09] <Kamion> ogra: that's precisely Keybuk's complaint, if you read ...
[12:10] <ogra> yep
[12:10] <Keybuk> seb128: that patch worries me
[12:10] <Keybuk> why isn't the same patch being applied to mountall and mountnfs, etc.
[12:10] <seb128> iegary: question for you :)
[12:11] <seb128> Keybuk: you have a point
[12:12] <Keybuk> I'll have to look at those bugs later, there's a few there with patches that need thought
[12:12] <Keybuk> *sigh*
[12:16] <iegary> Keybuk: it should, I guess :) If you're happy with the format of the umount patch, I'll do something similar for the other init scripts too
[12:16] <Keybuk> iegary: I'll have to read it, and decide
[12:16] <Keybuk> the fact it doesn't do anything like that now suggests the documentation is wrong
[12:17] <iegary> Keybuk: well until udev started to decide mount point naming, there weren't very many mount points with spaces
[12:18] <Keybuk> iegary: udev has nothing to do with mount point naming
[12:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: re bug 43687; do you have a suggested mountpoint?  I'm a bit worried that a user exploring the system will end up going in there and fiddling and thereby cause great confusion.
[12:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43687 in casper "Should make unionfs COW filesystem visible from userspace" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43687
[12:18] <Keybuk> and there's no reason to name moint points of removable disks in /etc/fstab
[12:19] <ivoks> right, hal does that
[12:19] <Keybuk> right
[12:19] <Keybuk> so why put them in /etc/fstab?
[12:19] <iegary> they're in /etc/mtab
[12:20] <Keybuk> so?
[12:20] <Keybuk> there's lots of things in /etc/mtab that aren't in /etc/fstab
[12:20] <ivoks> mtab stands for "mounted filesystems"
[12:20] <mjg59> pitti: ?
[12:20] <Keybuk> /dev, /dev/shm, /var/run, /var/lock, /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/volatile
[12:20] <Keybuk> mtab stands for "why is this file still here? why hasn't it gone away yet?"
[12:20] <ivoks> :)
[12:21] <Kamion> Keybuk: I think the point is that the umount script is handling entries with spaces in /etc/mtab wrongly
[12:21] <Keybuk> ahh
[12:21] <Kamion> fstab was an incorrect distraction
[12:21] <Keybuk> I'm reading the bug wrong
[12:21] <iegary> if we could use "umount -a" it'd all be fine, but we try to keep certain filesystems mounted, so have to parse mtab manually
[12:22] <Keybuk> yeah, got it now
[12:23] <Keybuk> the implementation of the patch is kinda icky though
[12:24] <Keybuk> especially relying on bash
[12:24] <iegary> Keybuk: the first patch works in dash, but it's equally messy :)
[12:25] <nomed> hi all
[12:25] <nomed> i'm not sure if this is a bug ...
[12:26] <nomed> anyway if i try to install latest lvm2 on a chrooted dapper .. where the host is a sarge i get an error
[12:26] <nomed> it seems the preinst script uses uname -r
[12:28] <Keybuk> iegary: the same kind of patch does need to be applied to anything parsing fstab too (which there's a lot of)
[12:29] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: why aren't people just using getfsent? :-)
[12:30] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: from shell? :p
[12:30] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: well, point.
[12:30] <iegary> Keybuk: okay if you're happy with the format (read -r, sed using multiple -e expressions) then I'll do the patches
[12:30] <Keybuk> actually, there's an idea here
[12:30] <iegary> Keybuk: awk would have been handier, but didn't want to add extra dependencies
[12:30] <Keybuk> a getfsent tool would do the job
[12:30] <Kamion> a little helper binary to do the unmounting might be appropriate
[12:30] <Kamion> snap
[12:31] <Keybuk> likewise getmntent
[12:31] <infinity> nomed: Doesn't seem buggy to me..
[12:31] <Keybuk> I would prefer that infinitely to munging stuff with sed, and the numerous backslash behaviours hidden therein
[12:31] <nomed> infinity, but the previous was working ..
[12:32] <pitti> mjg59: I mean bug 37181; Kinnison and I just discussed that, we'll do some ugly, but non-intrusive workaround now
[12:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37181 in dbus "at_console does not adapt to console changes" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37181
[12:32] <infinity> nomed: Why do you need lvm2 in your chroot anyway?
[12:32] <nomed> i'll diff the preinst script .. of that one
[12:32] <Keybuk> infinity: logical chroots!
[12:32] <nomed> infinity, i need it while building my livecd for ex ..
[12:33] <nomed> but yes .. it's not common i understand
[12:33] <infinity> nomed: Then you might just want to bite the bullet and install a kernel >= 2.6.12 in the base system.
[12:33] <pitti> mjg59: i. e. we'll add a 'check-foreground-console' suid root program to libpam-foreground and directly query that in g-{p,v}-m
[12:33] <infinity> nomed: Lots of packages check kernel versions on installation, it's just unfortunate that this one is biting you today.
[12:33] <mdz> Mithrandir: how about having it on /cow but only if a boot option is specified?  that would be the least risk
[12:33] <nomed> infinity, ok
[12:34] <Keybuk> mdz: only if we also have a /gate
[12:34] <infinity> Keybuk: little (not lithium) doesn't install stuff in chroots.
[12:34] <infinity> s/not/now/
[12:34] <nomed> i'd like to check why the previous version was not giving me such problem
[12:34] <ogra> nomed, a liveCD for ex ? like in /usr/bin/ex ??
[12:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: that'd work.  I've been toying with ideas like /media/.cow or /casper/cow, but those aren't very pretty, imo.
[12:34] <infinity> nomed: Because the previous version probably didn't have the kernel version check, and your kernel is << 2.6.12
[12:36] <nomed> infinity, that's sure .. :)
[12:36] <nomed> last question ...
[12:36] <nomed> i's just like to understand this better ..
[12:36] <nomed> why udev doesn't check the kernel in such way ?
[12:37] <nomed> i guess it needs a kver >= 2.6.12 too ..
[12:37] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, why doesn't it? :)
[12:38] <Keybuk> nomed: because it works with < 2.6.12
[12:38] <Kamion> klugez: ok, pam 0.79-3ubuntu13 uploaded, correcting the broken nice rlimits; upgrade should be available in about two hours
[12:38] <Kamion> klugez: thanks again for the report
[12:38] <Keybuk> well
[12:38] <Keybuk> I say "works"
[12:39] <Keybuk> assuming your 2.6.12 initramfs didn't get blown apart
[12:39] <Keybuk> then the userland fails nicely
[12:39] <Keybuk>         # We need the uevent support introduced in 2.6.15, bail out if we
[12:39] <Keybuk>         # don't have it and fall back to a static /dev
[12:39] <Keybuk>         if [ ! -f /sys/class/mem/null/uevent ] ; then
[12:39] <Keybuk> so I check whether the kernel has true support, rather than just its version number
[12:39] <fabbione> infinity: how is the new evdev doing?
[12:40] <nomed> Keybuk, k thanks
[12:40] <nomed> thank you all
[12:40] <Keybuk> the fact that the initramfs gets blown apart is infinity's fault, and he sucks and STILL hasn't fixed it
[12:40] <klugez> Kamion: wow, that was fast :)
[12:40] <infinity> fabbione: Not building yet.
[12:40] <fabbione> infinity: ok 
[12:41] <infinity> Keybuk: Thpt.
[12:41] <Keybuk> infinity: now, stop masturbating, and get to work!
[12:41] <infinity> Keybuk: I'm in the process of fixing several dozen "initramfs blows up on major upgrades" bugs here.  I blame jbailey.
[12:41] <Keybuk> infinity: I like the ones where you get just enough of an initramfs to print an error message
[12:42] <Keybuk> but not enough to give you a shell
[12:42] <infinity> Yeah, those are special.
[12:43] <Keybuk> wouldn't it be great if rather than having one initramfs, we just had a whole selection of them
[12:43] <Keybuk> and the boot loader just picked up every little cpio file and joined them all together
[12:43] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: grub supports it.
[12:43] <Keybuk> I know :)
[12:44] <Keybuk> yaboot doesn't though, right?
[12:44] <Keybuk> then again, yaboot doesn't seem to support booting :)
[12:44] <Mithrandir> I think yaboot supports booting as an optional extra feature or something.  grub2 should work fine, though.
[12:44] <carlos> Riddell: hi, I just updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MissingPotFiles with more KDE translations domains that lacks the .pot file 
[12:45] <carlos> Riddell: I think is ok to ignore all those, but If you could check it, that would be really good
[12:45] <Riddell> carlos: ok, will do
[12:45] <carlos> Riddell: thank you
[12:48] <infinity> Keybuk: And with that option, we'd still have to worry about what sort of breakage we're introducing and how.
[12:49] <infinity> Keybuk: We'd still have the "udev + wrong_kernel = kaboom" problem, regardless of whether the initramfs was modular or monolithic.
[12:51] <Keybuk> udev-2.6.15-22
[12:51] <Keybuk> lvm2-2.6.15-22
[12:51] <Keybuk> easy
[12:51] <Keybuk> :p
[12:51] <Keybuk> ... before he gets killed
[12:59] <Kamion> Mithrandir: in some theoretical universe where booting isn't an optional feature for grub2 that requires a small scheme program
[01:00] <Mithrandir> phone
[01:01] <Treenaks> Kamion: grub2 == emacs?!
[01:01] <Kamion> scheme is a bit too wussy for emacs
[01:02] <ogra> Treenaks, the scheme interpreter is only a wrapper for the real lang grub2 is written in, LOGO ! :)
[01:08] <Keybuk> LEFT 90
[01:08] <Keybuk> FORWARD 10
[01:08] <Keybuk> RIGHT 90
[01:08] <Keybuk> BACKWARD 40
[01:08] <Keybuk> BOOT
[01:08] <ogra> yeah
[01:08] <ogra> and a little turtle icon on the screen while booting ;)
[01:09] <jsgotangco> logo lol
[01:09] <Seveas> will edgy have grub2 or is that too evil for even edgy? 
[01:10] <Kamion> Keybuk: HOKEY-COKEY
[01:10] <ogra> Seveas, spec it in paris (if you come)
[01:11] <Seveas> ogra, grub2 scares me
[01:11] <Seveas> and whether I come to paris depends on sponsoring ;)
[01:11] <ogra> it can do netbooting, i'd have some ltsp usecases for it :)
[01:12] <Keybuk> Du machst das hokey cokey und du drehst dich herum, Das ist die ganze sache.
[01:12] <ogra> hehe
[01:13] <Kinnison> Ja!
[01:13] <ogra> yay, perfect germam
[01:28] <ogra> pitti, does your ibook have a headphone detection in the soundcard ? i just noted that mie seems to have stopped to work
[01:28] <ogra> *mine
[01:28] <pitti> ogra: it started to work again with latest kernel
[01:28] <pitti> but yes, it was broken for a while
[01:28] <ogra> ah, ok, i probably should get these 300 pending updates :)
[01:28] <ogra> thanks
[01:28] <Mithrandir> so, if I switch to tty1 and back, display 1 complains about out of range.  If I do the same, but start usplash first, it works fine.
[01:28] <looksaus> I'm a bit hesitant to bug you with this one while you people are so busy, but...
[01:29] <ogra> Mithrandir, for me it once took 2mins until the console was shown ... its still delayed but only some secs now
[01:29] <Mithrandir> ogra: that's not a problem for me.
[01:29] <looksaus> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/40067
[01:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:30] <looksaus> I found at least one more person who has this bug
[01:30] <looksaus> (reported 2006/04/18)
[01:30] <ogra> Mithrandir, my laptop flatpanel wouldnt show out of range messages
[01:30] <looksaus> it might be a real showstopper
[01:30] <ogra> it just stays dark
[01:30] <looksaus> ogra, pitti , you mention you have ibooks too...
[01:31] <pitti> well, one :)
[01:31] <ogra> yes, but see above, i'm heavily outdated
[01:31] <pitti> looksaus: WFM
[01:31] <looksaus> WFM == ?
[01:31] <ogra> works for me :)
[01:32] <pitti> looksaus: although I didn't upgrade my ibook for a week, too
[01:32] <pitti> looksaus: I'll do that soon and check
[01:32] <looksaus> pitti, is there any more information I could give?
[01:32] <looksaus> or tests I could do?
[01:32] <infinity> pitti: The bug log claims it's been going on since Flight-3... You'd know if you had the problem.
[01:32] <ogra> i didnt
[01:32] <pitti> looksaus: ^ ok, then it definitively doesn't affect me
[01:32] <infinity> looksaus: Have you tested moving .mozilla out of the way completely and trying with a clean profile?
[01:32] <looksaus> yes
[01:32] <pitti> I have flight-7 installed
[01:33] <looksaus> strange thing, and perhaps most useful is that it seems to be quite deep
[01:33] <infinity> THat would only be useful if I knew what you meant. :)
[01:33] <looksaus> epiphany is unstable too, but there the (same?) problem turns up
[01:33] <looksaus> only after some time
[01:34] <looksaus> while in firefox, it's really a matter of seconds, as confirmed by Leonardo Pistone
[01:34] <infinity> But it never crashes, just hangs?
[01:35] <looksaus> that's correct, see the bug report
[01:35] <infinity> I saw it, I'm confirming.
[01:35] <infinity> So, have you tried to strace it to see what it's doing during that hang?
[01:35] <infinity> Or attach gdb to the process to see precisely where it's hung?
[01:35] <looksaus> no, I'm sorry, maybe I should do that
[01:36] <infinity> Given that none of us can reproduce it (if we could, we'd have yelled rather loudly at iwj about it already), any diagnostic info yo ucan find would be great.
[01:36] <looksaus> I'm unfamiliar with these tools; is there an easy explanation of how to use them?
[01:36] <looksaus> (for this specific problem)
[01:36] <infinity> The manpages are good. :)
[01:36] <looksaus> I know about what they're supposed to do, but I also know they're quite broad tools
[01:37] <infinity> Otherwise, I'd suspect some people in #ubuntu-bugs (preferably ones that aren't meant to be leaving right now) might be able to help you generate some debugging info.
[01:37] <looksaus> will just $gdb firefox get me something useful
[01:37] <ogra> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs is also helpful
[01:37] <infinity> No, it won't, since firefox is a shell script.
[01:37] <fabbione> looksaus: firefox --debugger gdb
[01:37] <looksaus> fabbione, thx
[01:37] <fabbione> assuming you installed the dbg version of firefox
[01:38] <looksaus> ok
[01:38] <fabbione> otherwise it's a useful as running selinux
[01:38] <sladen> 000
[01:39] <looksaus> installing the -dbg version
[01:40] <joelbryan> $gdb firefox-bin, I guess
[01:45] <Mithrandir> break=casper-boomt != break=casper-bottom
[01:45] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure how that came about.
[01:45] <infinity> boomt!
[01:46] <ogra> heh
[01:46] <ogra> nice typo
[01:49] <looksaus> fabbione, joelbryan , I used https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingFirefox
[01:49] <looksaus> but firefox doesn't seem to start
[01:50] <looksaus> just gdb...
[01:51] <looksaus> I tried to follow these instructions to the letter, with more or less an idea of what they should do...
[01:52] <looksaus> any hints welcome...
[01:52] <ogra> typing run in the gdb prompt might be helpful :)
[01:53] <looksaus> sorry, me very unexperienced at this
[01:56] <Mithrandir> so, just doing rm -rf on the underlying file system does confuse unionfs
[01:57] <ogra> thats evil
[01:57] <Mithrandir> doing that to unionfs?  I agree
[01:57] <ogra> also that unionfs doesnt pick it up
[02:00] <fabbione> Keybuk: do you have any idea what a vbi device is?? something related to v4l.. but i have never seen it before
[02:02] <looksaus> #40067
[02:02] <looksaus> oops
[02:02] <nomed> Mithrandir, "ls -l /proc/1/" is it correct for you?
[02:02] <ogra> fabbione, thats for digital TV
[02:02] <nomed> on a livefs ...
[02:02] <looksaus> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/40067/+index
[02:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[02:02] <looksaus> attached gdb output
[02:02] <Mithrandir> fabbione: http://www.thedirks.org/v4l2/v4l2dsi.htm
[02:02] <fabbione> ogra: ok thanks...
[02:03] <Mithrandir> nomed: ECONTEXT
[02:03] <looksaus> ogra, this looks like very little output, did I do this right?
[02:03] <fabbione> Mithrandir: danke...
[02:03] <fabbione> now i wonder why i don't have one
[02:03] <fabbione> of that device
[02:03] <ogra> looksaus, if it crashed you need to type bt to get a backtrace
[02:04] <looksaus> ogra, sorry if I need so much hand holding, thx for your help
[02:05] <ogra> fabbione, you usually get your EPG data through that device 
[02:05] <mvo> Kamion: what should the debconf frontends (kde,gnome) do when cancel is pressed (or closed by the wm)? just return with zero exit status? or  non-zero exit status because the debconf transaction was not completed? 
[02:05] <fabbione> ogra: i have a simple TV tuner.. i just don't understand why the device is not there.. or if it needs to be there at all
[02:05] <ogra> (not sure if it was used in the pre digi aera already)
[02:06] <nomed> Mithrandir, if i'm not wrong /proc/1/exe is a links to unionfs branch init
[02:06] <nomed> and i do not know if there are other links like this ..
[02:06] <nomed> that's the only one i've seen ..
[02:06] <mvo> Kamion: I ask because some people are interessted in using a debconf note as a sort of "license display and agreement" screen
[02:06] <Mithrandir> nomed: I can tell you in about ten minutes, I need to redo the live cd a bit.
[02:07] <mjg59> mvo: I think some people should be hunted down and "encouraged" not to do that
[02:07] <ogra> fabbione, ogra@edubuntu:~$ ls -l /dev/vbi0
[02:07] <ogra> crw-rw----  1 root video 81, 224 2006-05-07 14:24 /dev/vbi0
[02:07] <ogra> fabbione, if you need tests or something
[02:07] <ogra> (but thats breezy currently)
[02:07] <fabbione> ogra: no thanks.. i am only trying to understand if it is something i am supposed to have or not
[02:07] <mvo> mjg59: I'm with with that if that is the "official" position of the debconf team, I just wanted to have it clarified
[02:08] <fabbione> ogra: upgrade to dapper and see if it is still there...
[02:08] <ogra> fabbione, at least its available in breezy on my cheapo wintv pci
[02:08] <ogra> will do
[02:08] <mjg59> mvo: Who wants to do that?
[02:08] <fabbione> ogra: mine is a cheap wintv too.. that's why
[02:09] <mjg59> You can't realistically use debconf stuff for license agreements, since (a) it may be run non-interactively, and (b) it only requires the admin to agree, not any of the users
[02:09] <Mithrandir> Riddell: does the patch in 
[02:09] <Mithrandir> Riddell: http://librarian.launchpad.net/2544675/disable_update_notifier.diff make sense?
[02:10] <Mithrandir> or, is correct for kubuntu or something
[02:10] <mvo> mjg59: right, especially the non-interactive case is a big problem with that approach
[02:10] <Riddell> Mithrandir: looks good to me
[02:12] <looksaus> ogra, this better:
[02:12] <looksaus> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/40067/+index ?
[02:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[02:12] <mdz> Mithrandir,infinity: Colin and I just had an idea about l-r-m on the live CD, that it could be disabled when booting in safe mode
[02:12] <Kamion> mvo: back up, I think
[02:12] <mdz> since that's a natural fallback for the user to try if it doesn't work
[02:12] <hile> Hi, I have a small script to detect serial port's UART for udev, could it make it to dapper udev package?
[02:12] <elmo> mjg59: the non-interactive case is trivial, you just refuse to install
[02:12] <Kamion> mvo: at any rate you should get non-zero back from db_go, not that I've tested this
[02:13] <elmo> mjg59: the admin vs. users thing is more of a problem, but I've talked to vendors who were happy with debconf for agreement even with that caveat
[02:13] <Kamion> mvo: although I never ever want to see anything that does this in main or universe
[02:13] <looksaus> ogra, sorry, have to go, will be back
[02:13] <looksaus> thx for your help!
[02:13] <elmo> (but I do generally agree, prompting when you run the program is better when possible and it makes sense)
[02:13] <mvo> Kamion: ah, nice, I'll test this. In the source of the gnome/kde frontend it just seems to exit (without any special exit code)
[02:14] <hile> it goes to /lib/udev/serial_uart, http://ner.dy.fi/serial_uart - not linked anywhere, but if UART is needed you could use IMPORT{program}="serial_uart %p" fro rules
[02:14] <zul> heylo
[02:14] <mvo> Kamion: its for a multiverse package (that I'm not working on myself I may add :P)
[02:14] <hile> of course uart reallyshould be available in sysfs, but that requires kernel patch AFAIK so it's the slow route
[02:14] <Kamion> Mithrandir,infinity: (safe mode is 'xforcevesa' on cmdline at the moment, although that can be changed)
[02:15] <Kamion> mvo: hmm, I think the confmodule will probably get SIGPIPEd then
[02:15] <hile> I'll file a bug against udev anyway, just wanted to ask if the script has slightest change to make it into dapper
[02:15] <mvo> elmo: right
[02:16] <Kamion> mvo: either that or read will fail and it'll hopefully fall over due to 'set -e'
[02:16] <Mithrandir> mdz: hmm, but often it'll start X well enough and then just fail randomly in ubiquity somewhere, won't it?
[02:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, it's just a convenient place to put the boot option
[02:17] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I don't think I wouldn've connected the dots for "system works for a while, then falls over" and "safe mode".
[02:18] <Kamion> mdz: do we still have time to add stuff to the CD sleeve? I'm guessing not ...
[02:19] <TheMuso> 
[02:19] <mdz> Kamion: no
[02:19] <Kamion> thought not, shame
[02:20] <infinity> mdz: Sounds reasonable to me.
[02:20] <Kamion> mvo: normally a question like this ought to be boolean, so you should have yes/no buttons
[02:21] <Kamion> (aside from yes/no being poor UI in general, but we don't have a mechanism to change that at the moment; maybe in future)
[02:21] <infinity> Mithrandir: I dunno.. "it breaks" pretty much always leads to "look for something less broken", and "safe mode" sounds like it could work.
[02:22] <Mithrandir> infinity: maybe.  It does say "safe graphics" at the moment, though, so we might want to change it to just "safe mode"
[02:22] <mvo> Kamion: gnome renders it as a checkbox with a "help" button next to it
[02:24] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes, I suggested that
[02:25] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: how can I tell a system that it shouldn't show the hibernate option?
[02:26] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: In what sense?
[02:26] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: bug 23882
[02:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 23882 in casper "Hibernate option should be suppressed on the live CD" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/23882
[02:26] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: we won't have a hibernatable live cd for dapper, so it would be nice to not show the option
[02:26] <seb128> could be stop that "GNOME Desktop, Settings and Metacity Optimization" guy? maybe unsubscribing him from the lists or something?
[02:27] <ogra> yeah
[02:27] <ogra> pretty please
[02:27] <seb128> there is no proof his scripts do anything
[02:27] <Kamion> mvo: oh, sigh, the gnome frontend isn't so great sometimes :-/
[02:27] <Kinnison> Well, for g-p-m (and thus soon the logout dialog) do gconftool-2 --set --type bool /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate false
[02:27] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: ^^
[02:27] <ogra> the crossposting is most annoying
[02:27] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: ok, thanks.
[02:27] <seb128> and he's pushing users to try non-tested stuff that could damage their config
[02:27] <ogra> yep
[02:27] <seb128> for no win
[02:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I can change the text, sure, though I'll have to check up with translators
[02:27] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: or the appropriate rule for doing that as root if you need to do it during prep
[02:28] <AlinuxSOS> hello Dear people, what is the name of Espresso Live Installer in ubuntu ?
[02:28] <seb128> Kinnison: oh, there can_... keys? Now I know how to try properly the session dialog :)
[02:28] <infinity> AlinuxSOS: Ubiquity.
[02:28] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/var/lib/gconf/defaults --set --type bool /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate false
[02:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: would you mind taking a look at oem-config and trying to fix it up a little bit for dapper? I've had very little time to look at it this release, and it's bitrotted a bit
[02:28] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: that would work as root (pre desktop boot)
[02:28] <seb128> Kinnison: I was wondering how to test the suspend since my box doesn't do it according to g-p-m :)
[02:28] <AlinuxSOS> I'll start translating debian-installer to get Georgian language in Espresso too :)
[02:28] <Kinnison> seb128: :-)
[02:29] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: I call gconf-tool as the user already so I'll just copy that.
[02:29] <AlinuxSOS> infinity, thank you pal :)
[02:29] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: okies
[02:29] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: is --direct quicker?
[02:29] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: No
[02:29] <Kamion> AlinuxSOS: espresso no longer exists; it was only ever called that in Ubuntu, and it's been renamed in Ubuntu now
[02:29] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: It just can be done to adjust the defaults before the desktop boots for the first time
[02:29] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: I use it in the postinst to enable suspend if the machine is whitelisted
[02:29] <Kamion> AlinuxSOS: so get used to talking about ubiquity instead :)
[02:29] <AlinuxSOS> Kamion, ok Ubiquity :)
[02:30] <AlinuxSOS> what's the meaning of Ubiquity :)
[02:30] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: 'k, thanks a lot.
[02:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I think the worst bit in oem-config is probably the way that the first run of localechooser fails
[02:30] <AlinuxSOS> As Espresso Caffe lover :) I loved that name :)
[02:30] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: no problem
[02:30] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll just finish my casper bugfixing bonanza, but after that, sure.
[02:31] <Kamion> AlinuxSOS: it's an English word meaning "the state of being everywhere", which is pretty much what we want Ubuntu to be; furthermore it has some similarity to the name "Ubuntu", which is something Mark wanted
[02:31] <AlinuxSOS> ;)
[02:32] <AlinuxSOS> ok I like Mark's desition
[02:32] <AlinuxSOS> so let's georgianizeit :)
[02:32] <ogra> fabbione, my dapper liveCD has a /dev/vbi0 as well
[02:32] <Kamion> the name shouldn't be (or need to be) translated; it isn't presented to users
[02:33] <AlinuxSOS> Kamion, no I mean the rest :)
[02:34] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: hmm, should I possibly just forcefully reconfigure g-p-m to make it see if the machine can StR too?
[02:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: thanks, much appreciated
[02:34] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: Sure, you can do that
[02:34] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: providing it's before the desktop starts
[02:34] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: it's from the initramfs.
[02:34] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: otherwise there's the risk of the user's gconf blocking the backend
[02:35] <Mithrandir> so, StR didn't work too well on my amd64 at least.  I guess I'll look at that another time.
[02:37] <infinity> Keybuk: I just subscribed you to bug 43470 ... Could you have a look?
[02:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43470 in mozilla-thunderbird "Package includes empty /tmp with wrong permissions" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43470
[02:38] <seb128> Kinnison: can_suspend does nothing
[02:38] <HiddenWolf> seb128: why don't you point that guy at gnome-performance list? :)
[02:38] <seb128> Kinnison: the notify area icon doesn't list suspend action even if I use it
[02:38] <HiddenWolf> seb128: I would, but not subscribed right now.
[02:38] <Mithrandir> seb128: twiddling it worked for me just on the live cd now.
[02:39] <seb128> Mithrandir: maybe because you box can do suspend?
[02:39] <seb128> I'm on a desktop atm ... :)
[02:39] <sivang> Keybuk: recall that SoC I sent you a link to ? would you mind discussing this a bit with pygi ? maybe you could toss an idea what could make this SoC worthee..
[02:40] <Mithrandir> seb128: this is on my amd64 desktop
[02:40] <seb128> Mithrandir: hum ...
[02:40] <pygi> hi Scott
[02:41] <seb128> so, can we stop that guy who try to push broken scripts to users by some way?
[02:41] <seb128> if somebody breaks his gconf base by playing with it they will likely to have to reinstall their box
[02:42] <HiddenWolf> seb128: he'll just move it to the forums or the wiki when he's told to bugger off from -devel. 
[02:44] <Kinnison> seb128: if hal doesn't think you can suspend it may not turn on
[02:44] <seb128> Kinnison: k, that's probably the case, works fine on my laptop
[02:44] <seb128> Kinnison: if new gnome-session works fine on it I'll upload rsn :)
[02:44] <Kinnison> Rock on
[02:44] <Kinnison> seb128: you're a star
[02:45] <seb128> thanks to lmanul too who worked on that too ;)
[02:45] <seb128> and thank you for the tips making that easier ;)
[02:47] <Riddell> Kamion: powerpc in today's kubuntu/daily-live is 701MB but doesn't get an oversized warning, do that mean it's OK?
[02:48] <jordi> Kamion: hey
[02:48] <jordi> Kamion: how are you doing with the ubuntu book?
[02:48] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you might want to tell me if and how I should disable hibernation on the kubuntu cds too.
[02:49] <Riddell> we don't like people hibernating their live CDs?
[02:49] <Mithrandir> Riddell: it's not supported yet; there's no usable UI for getting back to your session
[02:50] <Riddell> Mithrandir: "dcop kded kded unloadModule klaptopdaemon"
[02:50] <Riddell> although that'll only work after kde is running
[02:50] <Mithrandir> Riddell: well, so a bit too early to do from the initramfs. :-)
[02:51] <Riddell> rm /usr/share/services/kded/klaptopdaemon.desktop  will work too
[02:51] <azeem> there used to be a wiki page with laptop support status in the past, is there one for dapper?
[02:51] <azeem> or, asking differently, is there a known status for the T60?
[02:51] <Mithrandir> Riddell: klaptopdaemon is only useful for hibernation, not StR or other laptop tasks?
[02:51] <Treenaks> azeem: still the same place: LaptopTestingTeam
[02:51] <azeem> Treenaks: thanks
[02:52] <Riddell> Mithrandir: StR?
[02:52] <Mithrandir> Riddell: suspend to ram.
[02:52] <sladen> azeem: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
[02:52] <Mithrandir> Riddell: there's no reason for that not to work on the live cd.
[02:53] <azeem> ok, so a coworker now got a T60 and installed Kubuntu on it.  Should I tell him to add to that page, or is somebody else keeping an eye on that model?
[02:53] <Riddell> I see, in that case this should do it  sed -i s/EnableHibernate=true/EnableHibernate=false/ /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/kcmlaptoprc
[02:53] <sladen> does kalptopdaemon do anything else useful like making other useful lapyopy things work?
[02:53] <infinity> azeem: The more info the better, by all means, ask him to contribute.
[02:53] <azeem> ok
[02:54] <infinity> azeem: We'd all like to see good out-of-the-box support with the T60 and X60, but few of us have managed to get our hands on one yet.
[02:54] <sladen> azeem: more eyes the better;  yes, please ask him to add his details to the top in additional and then fire away with testing the latest status
[02:54] <infinity> (I'm waiting for a tax return before I can justify my purchase)
[02:54] <Riddell> Mithrandir: ^^
[02:54] <Mithrandir> Riddell: ok, thanks.
[02:55] <sladen> azeem: like infinity says, the hardware is fairly rare and hard to get hold off, so more testing and reports the better
[02:55] <Mithrandir> mm, 80 character long file names
[02:56] <mjg59> azeem: Breezy is not likely to work that well. Dapper will be somewhat better.
[02:56] <mjg59> But all sorts of stuff is still likely to be broken
[02:56] <infinity> Mithrandir: Were trying to break the line into smaller chunks and gave up? :)
[02:57] <Mithrandir> infinity: I was slightly puzzled at the repeated "share" and what "default" does in there, but I don't think I'll fight that windmill today.
[02:57] <Kinnison> lunchtastic, back later
[02:58] <azeem> mjg59: he installed dapper
[02:58] <infinity> Also, why am I getting 2 of every list mail?
[02:59] <mjg59> azeem: Ok, cool
[02:59] <azeem> fglrx seems to work, the default X configuration with the ati driver didn't apparently
[02:59] <mjg59> infinity: It's ones which are Cced to -users
[02:59] <mjg59> azeem: Yeah. Blame ATI.
[02:59] <azeem> we do :)
[02:59] <infinity> mjg59: Yeah, but I'm filtering both into different folders, so this is bizarre that I'm seeing two in the -devel folder.
[03:00] <infinity> Oh, and another in -users.
[03:00] <infinity> So, I'm getting 3.  Rock.
[03:00] <mjg59> infinity: I know. I'm getting the same problem
[03:00] <infinity> I blame jdub.
[03:00] <infinity> Or Mithrandir.
[03:04] <Treenaks> azeem: anything like bug 20283?
[03:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "[fgl v5000]  really bad sync" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/20283
[03:06] <azeem> Treenaks: I think it's another chip, and I have to ask him about how exactly X.org failed
[03:07] <mjg59> The ati driver doesn't support the newer chips
[03:08] <mjg59> Treenaks: Argh, that still isn't fixed?
[03:08] <Treenaks> mjg59: no
[03:08] <mjg59> Treenaks: Have you had a chance to test radeontool?
[03:09] <mjg59> (and the registers I suggested)
[03:09] <highvoltage> Treenaks: join RMS against ATI!
[03:09] <mjg59> Nvidia's just as bad. Get Intel hardware if you're getting a laptop...
[03:09] <azeem> the thinkwiki talks about installing an SMP kernel for the Core Duo, but AFAICT the regular kernel now suppors SMP as well, right?
[03:09] <Treenaks> highvoltage: I think nvidia is worse, as the 'ati' driver does 3D just fine on my older cards (and the 'nv' driver doesn't even try)
[03:09] <mjg59> azeem: The -386 one doesn't, no
[03:09] <azeem> ah, ok
[03:09] <azeem> makes sens
[03:09] <azeem> e
[03:10] <mjg59> Just install linux-image-686
[03:10] <azeem> yeah, he got told to install linux-686-smp which nowadays doesn't seem to do anything else
[03:11] <Treenaks> mjg59: I've tried, but I'm scared of breaking stuff by poking those registers
[03:11] <Kamion> Riddell: depends whose megabytes you're counting
[03:11] <mjg59> Treenaks: Just setting them to the values used in fglrx won't damage the hardware
[03:11] <mjg59> The screen may look disturbing, but you can't damage LCDs by doing this
[03:11] <Kamion> Riddell: the limit for our pressed CDs is 736051200 bytes; the limit for 700MB CD-ROMs according to Wikipedia is 737280000
[03:11] <highvoltage> MiB is millions of bytes, and MB is that 1024x1024x1024 thing, iirc
[03:11] <Kamion> Riddell: current Kubuntu daily-live powerpc is 735129600
[03:12] <Kamion> jordi: about half-way through; I've spotted a few errors but I like the general style and approach
[03:12] <infinity> azeem: s/linux-image-686/linux-686/ to get LRM as well (which he'll almost certainly want so he can install fglrx to drive the shiny new Radeon in there)
[03:13] <_ion> highvoltage: MiB is 2^30 B, MB is either 10^9 B or 2^30 B depending of the context.
[03:13] <azeem> infinity: linux-686-smp depends on -restricted, so that's fine
[03:13] <Riddell> Kamion: ok, nice
[03:13] <Kamion> highvoltage: yeah, but it's actually a bit over 700MiB
[03:13] <infinity> azeem: yeah, but mjg59 said linux-image-686, hence my correction.
[03:13] <infinity> azeem: linux-686-smp is just a transitional package to get linux-686 anyway.
[03:14] <azeem> yeah, I thought so
[03:14] <Kamion> 80mins approximates to 703.1MiB
[03:14] <infinity> Or, rather, it should be, but appears to depend on the next level down.  That should be fixed, perhaps.
[03:14] <highvoltage> _ion: aah, thanks :)
[03:18] <mjg59> Treenaks: If you could give that a go at some point in the pretty immediate future, we can try to work out what's wrong
[03:19] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 30 minutes for a regular code update. Estimated down time will be 15 minutes. Wikis will be in read only mode during this period.
[03:27] <Treenaks> mjg59: OK
[03:27] <AlinuxSOS>  debian-installer-utils can you explane me shortly what utility have this package ?
[03:28] <AlinuxSOS> and if it needs translation ?
[03:28] <bddebian> Hello devels
[03:29] <`6og> gday
[03:30] <Kamion> AlinuxSOS: yes, it has some strings that need to be translated; it's various miscellaneous installer utilities
[03:31] <AlinuxSOS> Kamion, why some string ?
[03:31] <Kamion> apt-get source debian-installer-utils if you're interested. I'd rather not end up answering similar questions for every one of the 50+ installer packages :)
[03:32] <Kamion> the debian-installer translation file is in rough order of importance; please just translate as much as you feel you can
[03:33] <AlinuxSOS> Kamion, :)
[03:33] <AlinuxSOS> ok understood :) I'll translate 100% both
[03:33] <AlinuxSOS> to be secure :D
[03:33] <AlinuxSOS> now importing from Lauchpad.
[03:36] <AlinuxSOS> Kamion, in debian-installer-utils there is only 10 string :D
[03:36] <AlinuxSOS> great :D
[03:37] <ogra> ARGH !!!
[03:38] <ogra> can please someone unsubscribe that crossposting guy from the mailing lists !!!!
[03:38] <ogra> he posted again to 5 lists
[03:39] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:39] <jsgotangco> i'm getting pissed too
[03:39] <ogra> and gives bad advise on -users attaching scripts that potentially break your system 
[03:40] <zul> ogra: the welcome center crap?
[03:40] <ogra> yeah
[03:40] <pitti> Kinnison: I ported g-v-m to check-fg-console, works great!
[03:40] <ogra> after he posted tons of crappy gconf things 
[03:40] <zul> ogra: ok idea bad approach
[03:41] <ogra> i dont care about the idea at all, its just annoying to have such horrible multiML posts
[03:41] <zul> true..
[03:41] <ogra> and he was told to stop it plenty of times
[03:41] <ogra> ask seb128 
[03:42] <AlinuxSOS> so once done debian-installer, we need a terminal font right ?
[03:42] <AlinuxSOS> monospaced bitmap font.
[03:46] <jsgotangco> he's trying to catch the eye of people, albeit in a twisted way, hopefully unintentional
[03:48] <ogra> he's also not reacting on warnings from seb128 that his stuff might break user setups in a way they have to reinstall worst case
[03:48] <ogra> thats pretty odd
[03:49] <seb128> and he has no numbers to argue on his "speedup"
[03:49] <ogra> yep
[03:49] <Treenaks> arnieboy#2?
[03:50] <ogra> Treenaks, nah, arnieboy does that intentional, this guy just doesnt get it i suspect
[03:50] <jsgotangco> he is a local here, but have not met him personally, but he hangs out in our loco channel sometimes, i'll give him some advice when he comes
[03:51] <bddebian> Who wants to give me some advice? :-)
[03:51] <jsgotangco> bddebian: outlander!
[03:51] <bddebian> jsgotangco: Welcome Traveler
[03:51] <siretart> sladen: regarding this segfaulting xair bug: it happens to me on plain i810
[03:51] <ogra> bddebian, first you need to crosspost to at least 5 lists, then WE'LL GIVE YOU ADVISE ! har har
[03:51] <bddebian> ogra: :-)
[03:52] <siretart> sladen: I wanted to reopen that bug but exactly in that sec lp gives me 503 :(
[03:53] <bddebian> Yeah it died on my before I could get my bug list for the day too :-)
[03:53] <bddebian> siretart: Hey good, could you take a look at xcircuit on REVU then? :-)  I'm about to request a UVFe for it.
[03:54] <ogra> oops sorry for the double <enter>
[03:57] <Kinnison> pitti: rock on
[03:59] <siretart> bddebian: I have a horrible backlog of unchecked UVFs currently :( - I won't do any promises
[03:59] <bddebian> :-)
[04:01] <AlinuxSOS> To get "Georgian" listed at first boot of Ubuntu CD, Georgian team must translate debian-installer debian-installer-utils... something other ?
[04:01] <AlinuxSOS> I'll import them into rosetta.
[04:04] <sladen> siretart: are you sure it's not one of the /other/ bugs that is i810 dieing if you're seeing it?
[04:06] <ogra> LP is back
[04:07] <bddebian> Aye
[04:07] <bddebian> Already giving others more work ;-)
[04:08] <zakame> hi all
[04:08] <zakame> coolness
[04:08] <siretart> sladen: I'm not sure yet if it is i810 thats dying for me. I'm currently not at home, will be there in a few hours
[04:13] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[04:15] <Mithrandir> doko_: any chance you could take a look at 3919?  You've been touching that lately.
[04:21] <AlinuxSOS> can I get somewhere ubiquity-s screenshots ?
[04:30] <bddebian> Oh, I like the new binary package hint on LP :-)
[04:33] <Keybuk> I don't
[04:33] <Keybuk> it annoys the frak out of me
[04:34] <bddebian> :-(
[04:34] <Keybuk> unless there's a newer new binary package hint
[04:34] <mjg59> jdub: Hi
[04:36] <nomed> Mithrandir, sorry .. i've been AFK for a while ..
[04:36] <nomed> did u check that proc issue ?
[04:36] <ogra> where is that ? 
[04:37] <ol> aha, just who I'm looking for...
[04:37] <ol> nomed: come to talk about debian/ubuntu xapian packaging
[04:37] <ol> sorry it's taken me a while...
[04:38] <Mithrandir> nomed: it points to /rofs/sbin/init, which is correct.
[04:39] <nomed> Mithrandir, yes ..
[04:39] <nomed> but i was reading such links ..
[04:39] <nomed> not pointing to /unionfs/root
[04:39] <nomed> may cause problems with apps like mono
[04:39] <nomed> i can't explain exactly the reason ..
[04:40] <nomed> as i've never used it ..
[04:40] <nomed> but ubuntu uses mono ..
[04:40] <Mithrandir> nomed: why should that be a problem for mono?
[04:40] <tseng> (what?)
[04:40] <nomed> Mithrandir, it was a discussion on unionfs mail list
[04:41] <nomed> i have to admit i didn't get it really .. 
[04:41] <tseng> yeah I have no idea what you are talking about
[04:41] <nomed> but some ppl that uses mono have had problems related to such links
[04:41] <nomed> tseng, i try to find the link ..
[04:41] <tseng> mono isnt even on the livecd, if thats what you are talking about
[04:41] <nomed> if you 're involved in mono ..
[04:42] <nomed> i'd like to understand better such "issue"
[04:42] <nomed> tseng, k
[04:42] <tseng> I am not sure why you are here telling us about an issue that you cant even explain
[04:42] <tseng> but I'd be happy to have a look
[04:42] <nomed> tseng, just because i asked to Mithrandir if that link was fine as it is
[04:43] <nomed> and because if such links on an unionfs mount point may cause problems in general ..
[04:43] <tseng> ok.
[04:43] <nomed> as it differers from a normal installed system
[04:43] <tseng> is there a confirmed bug?
[04:44] <nomed> tseng, try to find that link ..
[04:45] <Mithrandir> nomed: I don't see why it would cause any kind of problem
[04:48] <highvoltage> Keybuk: real clever marking #36599 as duplicate of #1 :)
[04:49] <bddebian> tseng!! :-)
[04:49] <tseng> bddebian: hi
[04:50] <nomed> Mithrandir, i don't see it too ..
[04:50] <nomed> anyway here is the link ..
[04:50] <nomed> http://www.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu/pipermail/unionfs/2005-December/001474.html
[04:50] <nomed> Mithrandir, that's why i'm asking :)
[04:50] <Keybuk> highvoltage: I couldn't think of any other bug number to do it to
[04:51] <Keybuk> admittedly I had 1 thru 36599 to choose from
[04:51] <Keybuk> but hey, look at the time I did it
[04:51] <Keybuk> a bit later on, it made more sense to mark it as a duplicate of the malone bug that was causing me to need it to mark it as a duplicate of *something* in the first place :)
[04:51] <highvoltage> hmmm... it was 8:38 my time, so your local time would have been... 7:38
[04:52] <nomed> ol, may you join #xubuntu ?
[04:53] <ol> nomed: sure
[04:54] <Mithrandir> nomed: I'm not sure why mono should care, though I do see the point of s-s-d, but well, not many people upgrade their live cds and have daemons on them.
[04:54] <pitti> ogra: do you use fuse in edubuntu?
[04:54] <ogra> pitti, not by default, but the localdev ltsp stuff does, so users need it
[04:55] <pitti> ogra: there are two issues (bug 32843 and bug 5774) which are apparently fixed by 2.5.x
[04:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32843 in fuse "warning: unknown option - wrong library version?" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32843
[04:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5774 in fuse "uninstalling fuse-utils removes group 'fuse' then tries to use it" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5774
[04:55] <pitti> ogra: the first bug claims that 2.4 doesn't work at all for us; do you have any problems with it?
[04:56] <ogra> i dont use it, localdev was postponed to eft
[04:56] <ogra> and none of my edubuntu users use it either currently 
[04:56] <pitti> ogra: in main, only linux-ntfs build-deps on it to build ntfsprogs
[04:57] <ogra> ltsp will depend on it in eft in any case 
[04:57] <pitti> ogra: ok, so it wouldn't disrupt you if I requrested an UVF exception?
[04:57] <pitti> ogra: I'll try out fuse myself now and check if 2.5 works any better/worse
[04:57] <ogra> and if users want to set up localdev in ltsp now, they should get a working fuse
[04:57] <ogra> so yes, UVF exception would be nice 
[04:58] <Mithrandir> I might actually want fuse in desktop for eft, jfyi.
[04:58] <Diziet> Do we have a tool to take two directory trees that are supposed to be identically laid out, and 1. check to see whether they have any overlapping leaf nodes and then 2. merge them into one directory ?
[04:58] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, right now I'm mainly concerned about what I could potentially break
[04:58] <ogra> Diziet, baobab ? 
[04:59] <pitti> ogra: wow, there's a tool for anything :)
[04:59] <ogra> heh
[04:59] <ogra> dunno if it does merging though
[04:59] <ogra> but its good for comparing
[04:59] <Diziet> Err, no, a tool, not an application.
[05:00] <Diziet> I don't want it to have a UI :-).
[05:00] <ogra> arent applications just big tools ?
[05:00] <doko> Mithrandir: the "every time is adding a hyperlink" thing could be fixed after building the amd64 packages with today's i386 upload
[05:00] <doko> I never could reproduce the crashes
[05:00] <Mithrandir> doko: ok.  :-/
[05:01] <Diziet> Hrm.  Well, I could (for 1.) sed the output of find -print0 and then feed it to grep -F and (for 2.) use cp.
[05:03] <infinity> Diziet: tree foo > foo.out ; tree bar > bar.out ; comm -3 foo.out bar.out
[05:03] <Keybuk> comm -3 <(tree foo) <(tree bar)
[05:03] <infinity> Diziet: For merging, "cp -a foo/* bar/" will happily merge one to the other.
[05:04] <bddebian> Heya infinity
[05:06] <Diziet> infinity: That (the rune with comm) would work except if the filenames contain newlines.
[05:06] <Diziet> And you don't want tree, you want find.
[05:06] <Diziet> Err, I think.
[05:06] <pitti> Keybuk: I just installed fuse-utils which brought an udev rules file. How can I poke udev to run it?
[05:06] <pitti> Keybuk: (it's supposed to create /dev/fuse)
[05:07] <ogra> modprobe fuse ?` 
[05:07] <infinity> Diziet: Filenames with newlines scare me. :)
[05:07] <pitti> ogra: well, that apparently didn't obey the udev rule...
[05:07] <Diziet> Yes, me too, but they exist - in packages - nowadays :-/.
[05:07] <pitti> ogra: anyway, the dev is there now, thanks
[05:07] <infinity> In packages?
[05:08] <Keybuk> pitti: udevplug
[05:08] <infinity> Ones we can't remove from the archive?
[05:08] <Diziet> Apparently.  I remember seeing someone make dpkg not break in that case.
[05:08] <Keybuk> pitti: ideally just udevplug <sysfs path of fude>
[05:08] <infinity> Diziet: Making dpkg not break in that theoretical case is a far cry from "Debian or Ubuntu ship packages with files containing newlines"
[05:08] <Diziet> (Although come to think of it I don't remember whether that patch ever made it into anyone's distro.)
[05:08] <infinity> Diziet: I'd be inclined to FILE BUGS IN UPPERCASE on packages that actually did...
[05:09] <ogra> and uppercase halps ? 
[05:09] <ogra> *helps
[05:09] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, neither 'udevplug /sys/module/fuse' nor 'udevplug module/fuse' seems to work; but thanks, I'll play with it
[05:09] <Diziet> infinity: Well, if you reckon that's our policy then the answer is indeed easy :-).
[05:09] <giftnudel> you get attention, may be not the one you like, but you get some
[05:09] <Keybuk> pitti: what's the udev rule?
[05:09] <infinity> ogra: I find it's helpful to let people know when they've really pissed you off (like, enough that you'd buy a plane ticket just to slap them)
[05:09] <pitti> KERNEL=="fuse", GROUP="fuse"
[05:09] <pitti> Keybuk: ^
[05:09] <Keybuk> that's just a permissions rule
[05:09] <pitti> Keybuk: but it's still root:root
[05:10] <Keybuk> right
[05:10] <Keybuk> quest scott% sudo modprobe fuse
[05:10] <Keybuk> UDEV  [1147360209.916922]  add@/class/misc/fuse
[05:10] <pitti> I can chown it by hand, but if I'm working at the package anyway, I can as well fix that
[05:10] <Keybuk> DEVNAME=/dev/fuse
[05:10] <Keybuk> that works
[05:10] <Keybuk> oh
[05:10] <Keybuk> no, sorry
[05:10] <Keybuk> yes, that works
[05:10] <pitti> yes, the device is created properly, but it's root:root
[05:11] <pitti> $ getent group fuse
[05:11] <pitti> fuse:x:119:martin
[05:11] <pitti> and the group should be fine
[05:11] <Keybuk> ok
[05:11] <Keybuk> that's a little odd
[05:12] <infinity> Diziet: I can't immediately find a Policy reference to newlines in filenames not being allowed, but no Policy reference doesn't make it any less stupid, IMO.
[05:12] <infinity> Diziet: I'd be surprised if you found one, and doubly-surprised if any maintainer argued with a bug being filed against their package for shipping such an abomination.
[05:13] <Keybuk> oh
[05:13] <Keybuk> what created the fuse group?
[05:13] <pitti> Keybuk: the fuse-utils postinst
[05:13] <Keybuk> pitti: right :)
[05:13] <Keybuk> so the group didn't exist when udev started
[05:13] <Diziet> infinity: Fair enough :-).
[05:13] <pitti> Keybuk: yes
[05:14] <Keybuk> so getgrent will have cached the old file
[05:14] <Keybuk> quest scott# echo 'KERNEL=="fuse", GROUP="scanner"' > /etc/udev/rules.d/41-fuse.rules
[05:14] <pitti> Keybuk: I think rebooting might even fix it, I just wondered if it was possible to make it work OOTB
[05:14] <Keybuk> quest scott# udevplug /class/misc/fuse 
[05:14] <Keybuk> quest scott# ls -l /dev/fuse
[05:14] <Keybuk> crw-rw---- 1 root scanner 10, 229 2006-05-11 16:11 /dev/fuse
[05:14] <pitti> cool
[05:14] <pitti> ok, so it'll work after a reboot
[05:15] <Keybuk> (yay, UNIX)
[05:15] <pitti> Keybuk: blunt workaround: chgrp fuse /dev/fuse in postinst :) 
[05:15] <pitti> (and a modprobe before that)
[05:15] <Keybuk> right
[05:15] <Keybuk> modprobe or udevplug
[05:15] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, thanks, mate
[05:15] <Keybuk> in case the module was already loaded
[05:15] <Keybuk> given it comes with the kernel, not fuse-utils
[05:16] <pitti> yep
[05:16] <Keybuk> actually, you don't need the udevplug -- just modprobe
[05:16] <pitti> Keybuk: anyway, this 'create a new group for a future device' use case seems to be interesting beyond fuse
[05:16] <Keybuk> pitti: no way around it other than killing udev
[05:16] <Keybuk> and if you do that, you have to do a new udevplug
[05:16] <pitti> ok, better not then :)
[05:17] <Keybuk> so 3 minute postinst <g>
[05:17] <Keybuk> you could ask jbailey to make glibc suck less
[05:17] <pitti> $ sshfs piware.de:home/martin server
[05:17] <pitti> slick :)
[05:17] <ogra> yeah
[05:17] <ogra> fuse is cool
[05:17] <pitti> the directory entry is even cooler
[05:17] <ogra> now tunnel it through ssh ;)
[05:17] <Kamion> Mithrandir: isn't 42574 an install CD bug, not a desktop CD bug?
[05:17] <pitti> ?---------   ? ?      ?          ?                ? server
[05:17] <Kamion> Mithrandir: so not ubiquity?
[05:17] <Keybuk> oh, I wonder
[05:18] <pitti> ogra: meh? sshfs *is* ssh, isn't it?
[05:18] <Keybuk> pitti: could you try invoke-rc.d udev reload
[05:18] <ogra> err, oops, sorry, indeed
[05:18] <Keybuk> and see whether you can udevplug /class/misc/fuse now
[05:18] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, I chgrp the file back
[05:18] <Mithrandir> Kamion: indeed, I'm blind and probably silly because it was filed against casper.
[05:18] <pitti> bah, telephone, brb
[05:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: fixed
[05:19] <Kamion> ta
[05:22] <pitti> Keybuk: uh:
[05:22] <pitti> $ sudo invoke-rc.d udev reload
[05:22] <pitti>  * Reloading kernel event manager... No /sbin/udevd found running; none killed.
[05:22] <pitti>                                                                                                                                                                              [fail] 
[05:22] <pitti> invoke-rc.d: initscript udev, action "reload" failed.
[05:22] <\sh> BenC: ping 
[05:23] <ogra> pitti, ouch
[05:23] <pitti> Keybuk: udevd is running, though
[05:23] <pitti> root      2238  0.0  0.1  11004  1300 ?        S<s  08:31   0:02 /sbin/udevd --daemon
[05:23] <Keybuk> bah, just -HUP it
[05:23] <\sh> or does anybody have problems building a kernel package from linux-source-2.6.15_2.6.15-22.34 with make-kpkg?
[05:23] <Keybuk> yay crappy s-s-d
[05:24] <pitti> Keybuk: yep, that worked
[05:24] <pitti> Keybuk: create group, HUPing udevd, modprobe, udevplug
[05:24] <Keybuk> pitti: wasn't getgrent that cached it, udev converted it to an id when it parsed the file
[05:25] <Keybuk> and it parses the file when it's written to disk
[05:25] <pitti> (final udevplug is not necessary)
[05:28] <carlos> doko: hi, around?
[05:28] <doko> carlos: yes
[05:30] <Keybuk> pitti: right, the modprobe will do the trick
[05:30] <Keybuk> hmm, actually
[05:30] <Keybuk> no, you want the udevplug
[05:30] <Keybuk> just in case they already had the fuse module loaded, and the device with the wrong group
[05:30] <pitti> so, I want both
[05:30] <Keybuk> I'd do modprobe --first-time fuse 2>/dev/null || udevplug /class/misc/fuse
[05:31] <Kamion> damn, sshfs is scary
[05:31] <Keybuk> ie. modprobe it, or tickle it again
[05:31] <pitti> Kamion: right now it just doesn't work at all for me
[05:31] <pitti> Kamion: might be due to bug 32843
[05:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32843 in fuse "warning: unknown option - wrong library version?" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32843
[05:31] <ogra> Kamion, hey, dont say that, you scare me ... i'll have to handle it in eft
[05:39] <pitti> ogra: bah, sshfs seems to work neither with the current dapper nor with the sid fuse
[05:39] <ogra> pitti, the 2.4 or 2.5 one ? 
[05:39] <pitti> ogra: both
[05:39] <ogra> bah
[05:41] <pitti> fuseiso seems to work
[05:44] <ogra> iirc ltspfs doesnt use sshfs currently 
[05:45] <ogra> only plain fuse stuff
[05:45] <pitti> ogra: ah, now it works. PEBKAC
[05:45] <ogra> :)
[05:47] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache show ltspfs|grep Depends
[05:47] <ogra> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libfuse2
[05:47] <ogra> yep, doesnt use ssh yet
[05:47] <pitti> sshfs is pretty cool, though :)
[05:48] <ogra> yep
[05:48] <ogra> i was planning to base our ltspfs implementation on it
[05:48] <pitti> ogra: maybe you should check with Kamion what exactly scares him before. Usually he has good reasons :)
[05:48] <pitti> wb seb128 
[05:49] <Kamion> pitti: oh, not bad scary
[05:49] <ogra> pitti, right, thats what paris is for ;)
[05:49] <seb128> re pitti
[05:49] <Kamion> I haven't looked into the code
[05:49] <seb128> pitti: new gnome-vfs patch, I just uploaded:
[05:49] <Kamion> just "that's so useful it's got to be evil"
[05:49] <ogra> pitti, i'll tie him to the chair in my ltspfs BOFs :)
[05:49] <seb128>  gnome-vfs2 (2.14.1-0ubuntu3) dapper; urgency=low
[05:49] <pitti> Kamion: :)
[05:49] <seb128>  .
[05:49] <seb128>    * debian/patches/96_from_cvs_only_non_automounted_listed.patch:
[05:49] <seb128>      - patch from CVS, list only drives which don't do automount,
[05:49] <seb128>        use storage.media_check_enabled hal property for that
[05:49] <seb128>        (Ubuntu: #33451, #41740)
[05:49] <seb128> pitti: should fix the "list unmount usb key and double click on it doesn't work"
[05:49] <seb128> unmounted
[05:50] <pitti> seb128: hm, that means usb sticks etc. won't be displayed any more?
[05:50] <seb128> pitti: the drives no, the volumes still are
[05:50] <pitti> aaah
[05:50] <pitti> cool!
[05:50] <seb128> :)
[05:53] <pitti> Keybuk: do you want bugs for sync requests nowadays, or just an IRC ping?
[05:53] <ogra> Keybuk does syncs ? 
[05:54] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-archive
[05:54] <Kamion> pitti: bugs are generally best, that way any of ubuntu-archive can do them
[05:54] <pitti> ok, alright
[06:18] <pitti> Keybuk: should I use invoke-rc.d udev reload and rely on you fixing it, or use kill -HUP?
[06:27] <pitti> Keybuk: weird, start-stop-daemon --stop --signal 1 --exec /usr/sbin/acpid works just fine, but /sbin/udevd doesn't
[06:28] <pitti> ls -l /proc/`pidof udevd`/exe is just right
[06:28] <Keybuk> pitti: means that udevd has been restarted
[06:28] <Keybuk> sorry
[06:28] <Keybuk> upgraded and NOT restarted
[06:28] <Keybuk> which is normal
[06:28] <Keybuk> udev doesn't restart itself on ugprade
[06:28] <Keybuk> ancient s-s-d bug
[06:28] <pitti> ah, ok
[06:29] <pitti> might be, I didn't reboot after today's dist-upgrade yet
[06:30] <Keybuk> restart doesn't reload :)
[06:30] <Keybuk> restart runs udevplug again
[06:30] <Keybuk> reload sends a HUP
[06:31] <Keybuk> stop/start breaks your machine
[06:31] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, I'll declare that as a corner case and just use reload then :)
[06:31] <pitti> (in the fuse-utils init script)
[06:31] <Keybuk> aye
[06:31] <Keybuk> right, me off now
[06:31] <Kinnison> night bukky
[06:32] <Kinnison> see you in a week
[06:32] <bddebian> bukky?  heh
[06:46] <seb128> what component is likely to blame for a "keyboard and touchpad are broken when waking up from suspend"
[06:46] <seb128> the box still runs, ssh to it works fine and pressing the power button open the session dialog
[06:47] <crimsun> pitti: thanks! (RE: alsa* uploads)
[06:47] <pitti> crimsun: my pleasure
[06:47] <seb128> hum
[06:47] <seb128> kernel: [4295478.518000]  i8042: failed to resume active multiplexor, mouse won't work.
[06:47] <seb128> [4295487.758000]  psmouse.c: TouchPad at isa0060/serio3/input0 lost sync at byte 1
[06:47] <mjg59> seb128: Kernel
[06:47] <pitti> crimsun: have you ever thought about applying for main upload privs, btw? :)
[06:48] <seb128> mjg59: is there a standard wiki page or something on "how to make an useful bug for that"?
[06:48] <bddebian> +1 crimsun :-)
[06:48] <crimsun> pitti: later, yes
[06:48] <mjg59> seb128: Not really, no
[07:02] <elmo> zul: ?
[07:02] <zul> elmo: yes
[07:02] <elmo> zul: that ifenslave upload was a manual upload, not a sync?
[07:02] <zul> yes..
[07:03] <elmo> zul: shouldn't the version have 'ubuntu' in it, then?
[07:03] <zul> ah crap...my apologies..
[07:04] <bddebian> WTF? Does this mean I need to do a -sa?
[07:04] <bddebian> Unable to validate xdm_1.0.1.orig.tar.gz from xdm_1.0.1-6ubuntu1.dsc: File xdm_1.0.1.orig.tar.gz mentioned in the changes has a checksum mismatch. 66dc783285b834c50239f861b517684c != c07839b690caacc3bbfa4b7737683606
[07:10] <Petaris_lab> janimo: I hear you are the person to see for xfce issues?
[07:10] <janimo> Petaris_lab: yes
[07:10] <janimo> Petaris_lab: if they are ubuntu/xfce issues
[07:12] <Petaris_lab> janimo: I'm running xfce on an ltsp server, but logins don't work sometimes
[07:12] <janimo> Petaris_lab: I have no experiece with ltsp at all
[07:12] <Petaris_lab> the actual login is accepted according to /var/log/auth.log
[07:12] <janimo> login using ldm?
[07:12] <Petaris_lab> gdm
[07:13] <Petaris_lab> but it just kicks me back to gdm again
[07:13] <Petaris_lab> after a few times it finally goes
[07:13] <ogra> Petaris_lab, how dos gdm come into your client environment ?
[07:13] <ogra> you said it wasnt tweaked
[07:14] <bddebian> elmo: Any idea what I'm doing wrong with xdm?  My second upload with orig.tar.gz include was rejected too?
[07:14] <bddebian> SHA1 sum of uploaded file does not match extant file in archive
[07:14] <ogra> janimo, it looks like something from the session script tries to access the DISPLAY variable before its set, youre simply to fast for ssh :)
[07:14] <elmo> bddebian: you can't overwrite orig.tar.gz's
[07:14] <Petaris_lab> ogra: isn't that what the clients are using?
[07:14] <elmo> make the orig.tar.gz match or change the upstream version number
[07:15] <bddebian> shite
[07:15] <ogra> Petaris_lab, nope, gdm doesnt offer ssh tunneling 
[07:15] <bddebian> elmo: How do I make the checksums match?
[07:15] <janimo> ogra, no idea what it can be, but for etch I'll try to make startup much slower to cope with such situations
[07:15] <ogra> bddebian, use the rigth orig.tar.gz :)
[07:15] <pitti> bddebian: download the current orig.tar.gz and use that
[07:15] <bddebian> W@#$#@$%234
[07:16] <ogra> janimo, could you point Petaris_lab to the right script, so he can experiment with sleep values or something to slow it down a bit
[07:17] <janimo> Petaris_lab: the script is /etc/xdg/xfce4/xinitrc
[07:17] <janimo> that's what gdm calls
[07:17] <Petaris_lab> janimo: ok
[07:17] <ogra> hmm, is that also what /etc/X11/Xsession calls ? 
[07:17] <Petaris_lab> I will play with it a bit
[07:17] <janimo> but some of the stuff is done by the xfce4-session executable not from the sctipt
[07:18] <Petaris_lab> hrm
[07:18] <Petaris_lab> ogra: can display be set bofore login?
[07:18] <Petaris_lab> *before
[07:18] <ogra> DISPLAY is set by ssh
[07:18] <Petaris_lab> hrm
[07:18] <ogra> *during* login
[07:19] <janimo> Petaris_lab: ogra, well /usr/bin/startxfce4 so indirectlu the scriptI mentioned
[07:19] <ogra> ok
[07:19] <Petaris_lab> if that is the case then a client that has been up for a while shouldn't have the issue
[07:19] <Petaris_lab> yet it does
[07:20] <ogra> ???
[07:20] <Petaris_lab> or is the ssh session not started until login/
[07:20] <ogra> i dont understand what you mean with "a client that has been up for a while" ?
[07:20] <Petaris_lab> a client that has been started but sitting at the login screen
[07:21] <ogra> the login is running ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/XSession
[07:21] <Petaris_lab> ahh
[07:21] <ogra> if you are not logged in DISPLAY is set to the client 
[07:21] <Petaris_lab> ok
[07:21] <ogra> if you are logged in DISPLAY is set by ssh
[07:21] <Petaris_lab> so a sleep should do the trick
[07:22] <ogra> setting it happens during the login process
[07:22] <Petaris_lab> I will try setting a 5 second sleep in the script and see what happens
[07:22] <ogra> just a guess by the .xsession_errors you showed
[07:23] <Petaris_lab> hrm
[07:23] <Petaris_lab> I wonder where I should set this
[07:24] <bddebian> Ah, that did it, thx elmo, ogra, pitti
[07:27] <Petaris_lab> that still didn't fix it
[07:28] <Petaris_lab> well, out of time for the momment
[07:28] <Petaris_lab> later
[07:51] <doko> dholbach: ping
[07:51] <dholbach> doko: pong
[09:26] <elmo> is there any particular reason we don't install smartmontools by default?  it doesn't run a daemon by default
[09:28] <_ion> Which reminds me how cool it would be if notification-daemon told the user about SMART failures.
[09:29] <_ion> I.e. "Hi! Your HDD is about to die. Please backup your stuff. HAND"
[09:29] <elmo> there's a spec for that
[09:30] <elmo> and someone even started (maybe finished) work on the software to do it too
[09:30] <elmo> but even making smartctl available would be a nice easy first step
[09:30] <_ion> It's even in main, there would be no need to promote it.
[09:32] <Seveas> fabbione, ping
[09:32] <_ion> Maybe file a bug against ubuntu-standard?
[09:33] <fabbione> Seveas: pong?
[09:33] <_ion> s/standard/meta/
[09:33] <Seveas> fabbione, mind a quick pm?
[09:33] <fabbione> Seveas: no
[09:52] <slomo_> hrm... gnome doesn't recognize my cdrom driver anymore, cryptsetup doesn't work with latest devmapper... are these known bugs?
[09:55] <zyga> hello
[10:09] <fabbione> night guys
[10:10] <zul> c ya fabbione 
[10:36] <jcole> d-i	pkgsel/install-pattern	string	~t^ubuntu-standard$|~t^ubuntu-desktop$
[10:36] <jcole> when preseeding, can i simply modify that?
[10:36] <zyga> is there any plan to make a UVF exception for vim7?
[10:36] <_ion> zyga: I hope so. :-)
[10:37] <zyga> I'll check malone
[10:37] <jcole> i tried something simple like this to install xubuntu and it didn't work...
[10:37] <jcole> d-i	pkgsel/install-pattern	string	~t^ubuntu-standard$|~t^xubuntu-desktop$
[10:37] <ubijtsa> jcole: you can..
[10:38] <ubijtsa> if the package that you try to install exists in the available repositories
[10:38] <jcole> ubijtsa: is there some "other seed" i need to update?
[10:40] <ubijtsa> jcole: you can specify in the preseed repositories to use, and I am not sure there is a xubuntu-desktop meta-package is the basic one..
[10:40] <ubijtsa> jcole: you can disect the xubuntu install ISO and see what they specify..
[10:41] <Kamion> jcole: xubuntu-desktop exists, your preseed seems right
[10:41] <Kamion> oh, not Task: xubuntu-desktop though
[10:41] <zyga> #44269
[10:41] <zyga> malone 44269
[10:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44269 in vim "UVF exception  to include vim 7 in dapper" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44269
[10:41] <Kamion> um, change ~t^xubuntu-desktop$ to ~n^xubuntu-desktop$ for now and it should work
[10:42] <Kamion> i.e. install the metapackage rather than the probably nonexistent task
[10:42] <Kamion> I'll try to track down getting that task added
[10:42] <ubijtsa> Kamion: will a Task be added at some point ?
[10:42] <ubijtsa> beat me to it :)
[10:42] <Kamion> ubijtsa: 21:41 < Kamion> I'll try to track down getting that task added
[10:42] <ubijtsa> *lol*
[10:45] <jcole> Kamion: ah
[10:46] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir: ping
[10:46] <jcole> Kamion: after some googling, i'm told it uses "aptitude syntax" but i couldn't find anything about that ~t in the man pages... do you have a reference url?
[10:47] <Kamion> jcole: install aptitude-doc-en and it's in /usr/share/doc/aptitude/html/en/ch02s03.html
[10:48] <jcole> Kamion: oh, ic... not in man pages, thanks
[10:48] <nawty> howdy :) 
[10:48] <Kamion> urgh
[10:49] <zyga> hmm
[10:49] <zyga> I have just found a rejected bug report that did not include UVF anywhere, about vim 7
[10:49] <Kamion> somebody give me something that's been removed from desktop since then
[10:50] <jcole> Kamion: that's perfect
[10:50] <Kamion> ah, xchat-gnome, that'll do
[10:50] <Kamion> override.dapper.extra.main:xchat-gnome  Task    edubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-desktop
[10:50] <Kamion> KINNISON
[10:53] <Kamion> sigh, netboot installs are basically broken - they'll install totally the wrong things. sorry. I'll chase this down with the soyuz folks tomorrow.
[11:03] <looksaus> hi all, I'm trying to document https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/40067 better
[11:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[11:04] <looksaus> because it could be a real showstopper for quite a few powerpc users
[11:05] <looksaus> is the backtrace information good enough? is there anything I can do to make it any better?
[11:05] <looksaus> I really have no idea if it says anything useful
[11:06] <slomo_> infinity: please give-back gst-plugins-base0.10 on hppa
[11:20] <lool> hi there, does someone have an idea why there's a depmod -a in the init of the initrd instead of doign the depmod -a at mkinitramfs time?
[11:22] <lool> here's the full story, with a custom kernel, I see loads of error messages from modules.dep not being found *prior* to init (I inserted an echo at the first line of init), it seems to me udev is triggerred before depmod -a is called
[11:34] <zul> heylo
[11:35] <Burgwork> sabdfl, you around?
[11:37] <sabdfl> Burgwork: yep
[11:37] <Burgwork> sabdfl, I have been doing a lot of thinking about the website. One key requirement for any webmaster, for me, would be ability to lead a webteam of volunteers like myself
[11:37] <Burgwork> sabdfl, as I would love to work on the content, but currently there are a few barriers in place
[11:38] <sabdfl> Burgwork: barriers?
[11:38] <Burgwork> sabdfl, lack of good forum to discuss, plus henrik having no time
[11:38] <Burgwork> sabdfl, by forum, I mean, mailing list
[11:39] <sabdfl> Burgwork: it's a full time job, and we haven't had a full time person there till now
[11:39] <sabdfl> well - we still don't - but we're hiring :-)
[11:39] <Burgwork> sabdfl, saldy, I have no python skills. Are you looking for marketing/sales people as well?
[11:39] <sladen> lool: it maybe to do with the selection of available modules in the initramfs being different, and possibly having had extra modules appended.  you could ping jbailey about the initramfs intrincses
[11:40] <sabdfl> Burgwork: yes
[11:40] <neuralis> Burgwork: you can pick up python in 2-3 days with any prior programming experience.
[11:40] <sabdfl> but this is not a #u-devel topic
[11:40] <Burgwork> neuralis, fail down the 2nd point as well
[11:40] <Burgwork> sabdfl, yes
[11:58] <looksaus> I'm sorry to bug you people about this at such a busy moment, but...
[11:59] <looksaus> on 2006/04/18, I reported https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/40067
[11:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:00] <looksaus> I did hardware tests to confirm it was not an unlikely problem with my machine
[12:00] <looksaus> I found another dapper ppc user to confirm the problem
[12:00] <looksaus> and today, with some help from this channel, I think I managed to do more or less of a backtrace
[12:01] <looksaus> can anyone here confirm that https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/40067
[12:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:01] <looksaus> contains good enough backtrace information?
[12:01] <mdke> looksaus: it's been reproduced by someone on the bug, you can mark it as confirmed, I think
[12:01] <looksaus> is there a way I can help to make it better?
[12:01] <looksaus> mdke, I'm just being careful
[12:02] <looksaus> I don't want to come over as arrogant
[12:02] <mdke> I'll confirm it