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| persia | What would be the best place to request a change to the documentation visible from http://doc.ubuntu.com/? | 01:34 |
|---|---|---|
| mdke | persia: here, the mailing list, or the bugtracker | 01:35 |
| persia | mdke: The specific request is to add simple-patchsys.mk to the example CDBS rules file in http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-cdbs.html. I'd be happy to use the bugtracker, but I'm not sure which - it is Malone? | 01:37 |
| LaserJock | persia: I can field that one ;-) | 01:38 |
| persia | LaserJock, mdke: Thank you. | 01:38 |
| LaserJock | persia: but I don't see why simple-patchsys.mk is needed | 01:39 |
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| persia | LaserJock: Because some of the senior MOTUs recommend against adding a new patch system to a package, as the Debian maintainers have complained, but without a patch system, the changes are not restricted to the debian/ directory. For new packages, it seems best practice to encourage the definition of the preferred patch system prior to any patches being applied, so as to prevent later direct patches. | 01:40 |
| persia | (note that senior in this case just means having been around a longer time) | 01:41 |
| LaserJock | persia: but that example there are no patches | 01:42 |
| LaserJock | *in that | 01:42 |
| LaserJock | persia: however, for Edgy we will be doing a much better treatment of patch systems and then your point will be perfectly valid | 01:43 |
| persia | persia: simple-patchsys doesn't crash when there are no patches, and no patches directory: it just doesn't do anything. Without this, cdbs-edit-patch won't work properly unless one manually adds one of the patch systems to the rules file. | 01:43 |
| LaserJock | persia: ok, can you send me (mantha@ubuntu.com) an email about it. I gotta get home now. | 01:44 |
| persia | LaserJock: Could we please change for Breezy? I've about 10 packages in the repository with changes in diff.gz that don't use a patch system to avoid irritating maintainers, and it is difficult to merge new debian versions when this is done. | 01:44 |
| persia | LaserJock: No problems. Thanks again. | 01:45 |
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| mdke | revision 3000 eh | 01:59 |
| mdke | not bad | 01:59 |
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| === Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Documentation Team - general discussion - backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Website http://doc.ubuntu.com | Get involved: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct | Next meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda | | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by Madpilot at Thu Apr 20 04:11:03 2006 | ||
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| Burgundavia | mdke: you around? | 09:48 |
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| ompaul | mdke, got a moment | 10:43 |
| mdke | ompaul: alright | 10:44 |
| ompaul | I was thinking about Matt Z's mail, I think the wiki upgrade pages could all be pulled into one a standard format, where you have an explaination like Matt's at the top and then it should not have to change except to include version numbers | 10:46 |
| ompaul | s/numbers/names | 10:46 |
| ompaul | right now the wiki looks like a mess https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=upgrade&titlesearch=Titles so it would condense all of that into one page of goodness (but I don't know if kubuntu / xubuntu) can have the same menu entry at the end for users rather than testers | 10:48 |
| mdke | give me a few minutes to try and understand what you just said | 10:49 |
| mdke | ok, lots of those pages you linked aren't documentation | 10:49 |
| ompaul | correct | 10:49 |
| ompaul | I am bouncing the idea for an evaluation of "is it reasonable" Clapham omnibus etc | 10:50 |
| mdke | dude, you have a really odd way of expressing yourself :) anyway, the idea is to make a page about how to upgrade to the next version of Ubuntu? | 10:51 |
| ompaul | I concur about the expressing ones self. yes it is, I think that all existing pages can be condensed into one page | 10:52 |
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| mdke | ompaul: it's tricky because the graphical method only applies to dapper and subsequent | 11:03 |
| mdke | ompaul: perhaps something like this: Upgrading (introduction), Upgrading/Warty, Upgrading/Hoary etc | 11:04 |
| ompaul | that works, I'll do something with it, when I am happy, I'll hand it off for review. | 11:05 |
| mdke | or just leave things as they are now with one page to draw everything together | 11:05 |
| mdke | ompaul: btw, are you interested in the idea of changing the bot to point at documentation, rather than give answers? | 11:06 |
| ompaul | yes | 11:06 |
| mdke | ompaul: is there a web interface that one can use to change the bot? | 11:07 |
| ompaul | no | 11:07 |
| ompaul | its got to be done through the ! | 11:07 |
| mdke | ompaul: so how are we going to go about it? | 11:07 |
| mdke | are there people who take care of the bot particularly? | 11:08 |
| ompaul | its open to anyone | 11:08 |
| ompaul | hang on a sec | 11:08 |
| mdke | sure, but are there people who do lots of work in that area? | 11:09 |
| ompaul | I imagine there are about 10 regulars | 11:09 |
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| ompaul | http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/ can be used to dump the info | 11:10 |
| ompaul | sorry stick pop.php after that | 11:10 |
| mdke | so we'd need to get them familiar with where the more reliable docs are on various areas | 11:10 |
| ompaul | mdke, yeap that would be the idea | 11:10 |
| ompaul | if you have a land line handy want me to ring you, I don't speak quite as bad as I type :) | 11:10 |
| mdke | ah good, looks like there are plenty of links already | 11:11 |
| mdke | ompaul: i don't have one at work | 11:11 |
| ompaul | okay | 11:11 |
| mdke | the links are good, but they point at the wiki rather than our docs | 11:11 |
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| ompaul | this is because the wiki is easier to search, now do you see why I wanted search :-) [note to self explain in as much detail as you can what it is you are trying to achieve] | 11:12 |
| mdke | right, but now the docs are really well structured so you can find the info easily: "ati" would be http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/hardware.html#graphics-cards "repos" would be http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/extra-repositories.html | 11:13 |
| mdke | codecs/mp3 etc http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/codecs.html | 11:14 |
| mdke | java etc for browsers http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/internet.html#web-browsing | 11:14 |
| ompaul | care to have a chat this evening on this? | 11:14 |
| mdke | ompaul: yeah, this evening is fine, I think | 11:15 |
| ompaul | I would like to give you a heads up on who is who | 11:15 |
| mdke | sounds fine. I won't have much time to work on this, I've got loads on my todo list for Ubuntu right now | 11:16 |
| ompaul | no problem, I can carry it, if I have instruction | 11:16 |
| mdke | but I'm encouraged that there are lots of links there already | 11:16 |
| mdke | so it's just a question of gradually getting in links to our docs | 11:16 |
| ompaul | yeap that makes sense | 11:16 |
| ompaul | okay I'll let you go until later, drop me a note with your telephone, or if you have skype (shudder etc) | 11:17 |
| ompaul | say about 8pm? | 11:17 |
| mdke | ompaul: fine, I'll mail you | 11:18 |
| mdke | ompaul: you're in ireland right? | 11:19 |
| ompaul | I am | 11:19 |
| mdke | what tz is that? | 11:19 |
| mdke | excuse my ignorance | 11:19 |
| ompaul | bst | 11:19 |
| mdke | oh, good | 11:19 |
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| jjesse | hello jsgotangco | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | jjesse: hi! | 03:36 |
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| LaserJock | mdke: ping? | 06:25 |
| WaterSevenUb | hhmm... in the desktop guide, C/add-applications.xml:219(para), Ubuntu will inform you with a pop-up and a red icon in your notification area... In one of the daily builds I've tested days ago the icon was orange... | 06:39 |
| WaterSevenUb | is red correct? | 06:40 |
| LaserJock | hmm, I thought it was red, but I can't tell the difference much between orange and red on such a small icon | 06:40 |
| WaterSevenUb | it was red in breezy.... | 06:42 |
| WaterSevenUb | but I think in dapper is orange now... | 06:42 |
| WaterSevenUb | at least was, a few days ago:) yeah, it is very small. | 06:42 |
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| jjesse | was it changed? | 06:43 |
| jjesse | WaterSevenUb: file a bug report :) | 06:43 |
| WaterSevenUb | I will, later on. I need to double-check. | 06:44 |
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| mdke | WaterSevenUb: we have a bug report on it already | 07:15 |
| WaterSevenUb | mdke, ok, thx. | 07:15 |
| LaserJock | mdke: busy? I wanted to ask you about the change persia wanted in the PG yesterday | 07:16 |
| LaserJock | mdke: if I change a line in a <screen> section will that mess up the translators, it isn't translated and it isn't in a <para> I don't think | 07:17 |
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| mdke | LaserJock: yeah, that will need translating again | 08:27 |
| mdke | i *think* | 08:28 |
| mdke | what's the string inside the <screen>? | 08:28 |
| LaserJock | its just the contents of a file, it shouldn't be translated | 08:28 |
| mdke | right, but even if it stays the same, it might show up as translatable | 08:28 |
| LaserJock | I'm not terribly keen on adding it | 08:28 |
| mdke | what's the exact string currently, i'll search | 08:29 |
| LaserJock | it currently looks like: | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | <screen>#!/usr/bin/make -f | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk</screen> | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | in basic.xml | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | and I persia wanted me to add one more include line | 08:30 |
| mdke | yeah, it's in the translation template | 08:31 |
| LaserJock | :/ | 08:31 |
| LaserJock | ok, well then maybe I'll put it in trunk and leave dapper alone. | 08:32 |
| mdke | sabdfl is going to insist on putting the book in System/Help | 08:39 |
| LaserJock | hmm | 08:41 |
| LaserJock | mdke: could we make it "Ubuntu Book Excerpts" and not in System Documentation ? | 08:42 |
| mdke | yes, that's the idea | 08:46 |
| mdke | i still think it sucks though | 08:46 |
| LaserJock | did you read the part in my email about that | 08:47 |
| mdke | yes | 08:49 |
| LaserJock | I think it is a bit odd they argue that their won't be competition because they are different media and targets (books vs. online docs) | 08:49 |
| LaserJock | s/their/there/ | 08:49 |
| LaserJock | but maybe I misunderstood | 08:49 |
| mdke | yeah, it's all balls. | 08:50 |
| mdke | I'm starting to suspect there is a commercial reason behind it, maybe it's part of the contract or something | 08:50 |
| LaserJock | hmmm | 08:50 |
| LaserJock | that could be | 08:50 |
| jjesse | i was just as shocked as you all are that it is going to be included | 08:51 |
| mdke | ompaul: i won't have time to hook up this evening, we'll have to do it another time. | 08:52 |
| mdke | jjesse: mark said that the discussions about inclusion included the authors | 08:54 |
| Burgwork | mdke, I knew it was going to be included, but I thought the time frame was edgy | 08:55 |
| Burgwork | there was some talk of possibly having it for dapper, but that was only talk, afaik | 08:55 |
| mdke | ah | 08:56 |
| mdke | Burgwork: btw, you pinged me earlier? | 08:56 |
| LaserJock | maybe we should have Mark fill out a UI Freeze exception report ;-) | 08:57 |
| mdke | Burgwork: while you're here, what do you think about having book sections in System/Help? | 08:57 |
| Burgwork | mdke, I have someone who speaks italian and whose english is a little broken. They also said they couldn't get a hold of the ubuntu-it people. Can I forward you the email? | 08:57 |
| mdke | Burgwork: course | 08:57 |
| Burgwork | mdke, I have forwarded two to you | 08:58 |
| mdke | cool | 08:58 |
| mdke | Burgwork: your take on System/Help/Book | 09:00 |
| mdke | ? | 09:00 |
| Burgwork | hmm, thinking | 09:00 |
| Burgwork | sorry, work is busy | 09:01 |
| mdke | np | 09:01 |
| LaserJock | well, there are always decisions made by leaders that we would like to change. You can't please everyone I suppose. | 09:11 |
| LaserJock | but this and that darn Edubuntu background are really the only things bugging me so far about Dapper | 09:11 |
| mdke | heh | 09:13 |
| mdke | as always at this time in the release cycle, I start getting frustrated that Mark gets a million ideas and wants to implement them all at the last minute | 09:14 |
| LaserJock | mdke: maybe we need to give him a fake release date, say 2 months before we really release, so then he can have his fun and we can have time to implement, ignore, etc. :-) | 09:15 |
| mdke | yeah, but he decides the release dates too :-( | 09:15 |
| mdke | we need a sabdfl freeze | 09:15 |
| LaserJock | LOL, yes! | 09:15 |
| mdke | i remember jdub proposing that for breezy... | 09:16 |
| highvoltage | an sabdfl freeze? | 09:16 |
| mdke | i gtg | 09:16 |
| highvoltage | bye mdke | 09:17 |
| LaserJock | cya mdke | 09:18 |
| Burgwork | mdke, I like the idea of having the book available, but oppose it for dapper | 09:20 |
| LaserJock | hmm, I'm starting to dislike the whole LTS think a bit. It seems like there is a lot of "We gotta get this in because this our big release" but some stuff just isn't timed right | 09:22 |
| highvoltage | 'some stuff' will never be timed right :( | 09:23 |
| LaserJock | exactly | 09:23 |
| LaserJock | and lots of stuff is on the way, it just won't be done in time for dapper | 09:23 |
| LaserJock | but most of this is in hind sight, it is very hard to predict where the distro will be 6 months down the road | 09:25 |
| ompaul | mdke, no worries | 09:30 |
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| Burgwork | holy crap! Canonical is going to be hiring about 24 new people int he new few months | 10:55 |
| crimsun | excellent. | 10:56 |
| LaserJock | for what? | 10:56 |
| Burgwork | anything and everyting | 10:59 |
| Burgwork | see marks blog | 10:59 |
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| mdke | Burgwork: btw our new wiki is up. I've started writing down some things we could do before it goes live, feel free to add: https://new-help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiToDo | 11:23 |
| mdke | same goes for everyone else too | 11:23 |
| Burgwork | mdke, very cool | 11:25 |
| Burgwork | mdke, you should apply to canonical to lead the doc team full tie | 11:26 |
| Burgwork | s/tie/time | 11:26 |
| LaserJock | especially since you are always here anyway. Might as well get paid for it ;-) | 11:26 |
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| mdke | Burgwork: I would quite like a job with canonical, maybe in local community or documentation, but I'm certainly tied up until september | 11:27 |
| mdke | i wonder if they need a lawyer | 11:28 |
| Burgwork | mdke, I am certain they could wait for a few months | 11:28 |
| mdke | heh, if they need someone to do that in the first place | 11:28 |
| Burgwork | mdke, you can sell yourself | 11:29 |
| mdke | actually, the locoteams need a bit of loving | 11:29 |
| mdke | it's all a bit disorganised | 11:29 |
| Burgwork | I don't think there is a single person on the doc team that wouldn't support you | 11:29 |
| mdke | awww, shucks | 11:29 |
| Burgwork | yes, a full time loco team contact would be nice | 11:29 |
| Burgwork | you have a good mix of social and technical skills, plus dedication | 11:29 |
| mdke | btw, what has happened to ubuntu-ca? | 11:29 |
| mdke | http://www.ubuntu.ca/ | 11:30 |
| Burgwork | ah, the current owner is MIA | 11:30 |
| Burgwork | we have not lost the domina, merely the DNS is screwy | 11:30 |
| mdke | ubuntu-ca.org is going there too | 11:30 |
| Burgwork | ya, I know | 11:30 |
| Burgwork | long story | 11:30 |
| LaserJock | mdke: btw, what is going to happen to Edubuntu pages when the wiki moves? This EC job has got me all Edubuntuized ;-) | 11:31 |
| mdke | LaserJock: what do you want to happen? | 11:32 |
| mdke | I'd say, the documentation can come to help.u.c, and anything community should stay | 11:32 |
| mdke | but obviously, these things are a matter for the edubuntu people | 11:33 |
| LaserJock | hmm, that might become interesting | 11:35 |
| LaserJock | we'll have to talk it over. it might make a dandy agenda item or the next meeting :-) | 11:36 |
| LaserJock | right, now wiki.edubuntu.org gives the edubuntu theme to the pages. Would that still be in place on the new wiki? | 11:36 |
| LaserJock | s/,// | 11:37 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, are you guys not moving everything to moin anyway? | 11:37 |
| LaserJock | Burgwork: hmm? There is presently a decent amount of documentation on the present wiki | 11:38 |
| Burgwork | sorry, not moin | 11:38 |
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| mdke | LaserJock: we haven't planned any theming for the new wiki at the moment | 11:41 |
| Burgwork | to drupal, or whatever the new thing is | 11:41 |
| LaserJock | Burgwork: haven't heard of that but it could be | 11:45 |
| mdke | it's a CMS | 11:46 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, the thing highvoltage is working on | 11:47 |
| mdke | ompaul: still around? | 11:47 |
| LaserJock | hmm, well in the mean time we might have to figure out which, if any, of the pages should go to the new wiki | 11:52 |
| mdke | LaserJock: the current system is that any page with CategoryDocumentation in it is going to get moved | 11:54 |
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