=== theCore [n=alex@toronto-HSE-ppp4206302.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc === persia [n=persia@p3181-ipbf1107marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:34] What would be the best place to request a change to the documentation visible from http://doc.ubuntu.com/? [01:35] persia: here, the mailing list, or the bugtracker [01:37] mdke: The specific request is to add simple-patchsys.mk to the example CDBS rules file in http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-cdbs.html. I'd be happy to use the bugtracker, but I'm not sure which - it is Malone? [01:38] persia: I can field that one ;-) [01:38] LaserJock, mdke: Thank you. [01:39] persia: but I don't see why simple-patchsys.mk is needed === enrico_ [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:40] LaserJock: Because some of the senior MOTUs recommend against adding a new patch system to a package, as the Debian maintainers have complained, but without a patch system, the changes are not restricted to the debian/ directory. For new packages, it seems best practice to encourage the definition of the preferred patch system prior to any patches being applied, so as to prevent later direct patches. [01:41] (note that senior in this case just means having been around a longer time) [01:42] persia: but that example there are no patches [01:42] *in that [01:43] persia: however, for Edgy we will be doing a much better treatment of patch systems and then your point will be perfectly valid [01:43] persia: simple-patchsys doesn't crash when there are no patches, and no patches directory: it just doesn't do anything. Without this, cdbs-edit-patch won't work properly unless one manually adds one of the patch systems to the rules file. [01:44] persia: ok, can you send me (mantha@ubuntu.com) an email about it. I gotta get home now. [01:44] LaserJock: Could we please change for Breezy? I've about 10 packages in the repository with changes in diff.gz that don't use a patch system to avoid irritating maintainers, and it is difficult to merge new debian versions when this is done. [01:45] LaserJock: No problems. Thanks again. === persia [n=persia@p3181-ipbf1107marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === enrico|mex [n=enrico@201.160.20.139.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:59] revision 3000 eh [01:59] not bad === ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@trider-g7.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Documentation Team - general discussion - backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Website http://doc.ubuntu.com | Get involved: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct | Next meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda | === Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by Madpilot at Thu Apr 20 04:11:03 2006 === poningru [n=poningru@pool-71-251-119-149.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@host86-143-88-114.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:48] mdke: you around? === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:43] mdke, got a moment [10:44] ompaul: alright [10:46] I was thinking about Matt Z's mail, I think the wiki upgrade pages could all be pulled into one a standard format, where you have an explaination like Matt's at the top and then it should not have to change except to include version numbers [10:46] s/numbers/names [10:48] right now the wiki looks like a mess https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=upgrade&titlesearch=Titles so it would condense all of that into one page of goodness (but I don't know if kubuntu / xubuntu) can have the same menu entry at the end for users rather than testers [10:49] give me a few minutes to try and understand what you just said [10:49] ok, lots of those pages you linked aren't documentation [10:49] correct [10:50] I am bouncing the idea for an evaluation of "is it reasonable" Clapham omnibus etc [10:51] dude, you have a really odd way of expressing yourself :) anyway, the idea is to make a page about how to upgrade to the next version of Ubuntu? [10:52] I concur about the expressing ones self. yes it is, I think that all existing pages can be condensed into one page === mpt_ [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:03] ompaul: it's tricky because the graphical method only applies to dapper and subsequent [11:04] ompaul: perhaps something like this: Upgrading (introduction), Upgrading/Warty, Upgrading/Hoary etc [11:05] that works, I'll do something with it, when I am happy, I'll hand it off for review. [11:05] or just leave things as they are now with one page to draw everything together [11:06] ompaul: btw, are you interested in the idea of changing the bot to point at documentation, rather than give answers? [11:06] yes [11:07] ompaul: is there a web interface that one can use to change the bot? [11:07] no [11:07] its got to be done through the ! [11:07] ompaul: so how are we going to go about it? [11:08] are there people who take care of the bot particularly? [11:08] its open to anyone [11:08] hang on a sec [11:09] sure, but are there people who do lots of work in that area? [11:09] I imagine there are about 10 regulars === Kamping_Kaiser [n=kgoetz@ppp100-144.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:10] http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/ can be used to dump the info [11:10] sorry stick pop.php after that [11:10] so we'd need to get them familiar with where the more reliable docs are on various areas [11:10] mdke, yeap that would be the idea [11:10] if you have a land line handy want me to ring you, I don't speak quite as bad as I type :) [11:11] ah good, looks like there are plenty of links already [11:11] ompaul: i don't have one at work [11:11] okay [11:11] the links are good, but they point at the wiki rather than our docs === mpt__ [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:12] this is because the wiki is easier to search, now do you see why I wanted search :-) [note to self explain in as much detail as you can what it is you are trying to achieve] [11:13] right, but now the docs are really well structured so you can find the info easily: "ati" would be http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/hardware.html#graphics-cards "repos" would be http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/extra-repositories.html [11:14] codecs/mp3 etc http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/codecs.html [11:14] java etc for browsers http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/internet.html#web-browsing [11:14] care to have a chat this evening on this? [11:15] ompaul: yeah, this evening is fine, I think [11:15] I would like to give you a heads up on who is who [11:16] sounds fine. I won't have much time to work on this, I've got loads on my todo list for Ubuntu right now [11:16] no problem, I can carry it, if I have instruction [11:16] but I'm encouraged that there are lots of links there already [11:16] so it's just a question of gradually getting in links to our docs [11:16] yeap that makes sense [11:17] okay I'll let you go until later, drop me a note with your telephone, or if you have skype (shudder etc) [11:17] say about 8pm? [11:18] ompaul: fine, I'll mail you [11:19] ompaul: you're in ireland right? [11:19] I am [11:19] what tz is that? [11:19] excuse my ignorance [11:19] bst [11:19] oh, good === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt_ [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@60.254.67.17] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:36] hello jsgotangco [03:36] jjesse: hi! === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-82-135-8-223.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico_ [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kgoetz_ [n=kgoetz@ppp100-144.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@host86-129-15-231.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:25] mdke: ping? [06:39] hhmm... in the desktop guide, C/add-applications.xml:219(para), Ubuntu will inform you with a pop-up and a red icon in your notification area... In one of the daily builds I've tested days ago the icon was orange... [06:40] is red correct? [06:40] hmm, I thought it was red, but I can't tell the difference much between orange and red on such a small icon [06:42] it was red in breezy.... [06:42] but I think in dapper is orange now... [06:42] at least was, a few days ago:) yeah, it is very small. === Cturtle [n=Cturtle@a213-84-50-38.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:43] was it changed? [06:43] WaterSevenUb: file a bug report :) [06:44] I will, later on. I need to double-check. === highvoltage [n=Jono@mtngprs7.mtn.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico|mex [n=enrico@201.160.19.54.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:15] WaterSevenUb: we have a bug report on it already [07:15] mdke, ok, thx. [07:16] mdke: busy? I wanted to ask you about the change persia wanted in the PG yesterday [07:17] mdke: if I change a line in a section will that mess up the translators, it isn't translated and it isn't in a I don't think === enrico|mex [n=enrico@201.160.19.54.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico|mex [n=enrico@201.160.19.54.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico|mex [n=enrico@201.160.20.139.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:27] LaserJock: yeah, that will need translating again [08:28] i *think* [08:28] what's the string inside the ? [08:28] its just the contents of a file, it shouldn't be translated [08:28] right, but even if it stays the same, it might show up as translatable [08:28] I'm not terribly keen on adding it [08:29] what's the exact string currently, i'll search [08:30] it currently looks like: [08:30] #!/usr/bin/make -f [08:30] include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk [08:30] include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk [08:30] in basic.xml [08:30] and I persia wanted me to add one more include line [08:31] yeah, it's in the translation template [08:31] :/ [08:32] ok, well then maybe I'll put it in trunk and leave dapper alone. [08:39] sabdfl is going to insist on putting the book in System/Help [08:41] hmm [08:42] mdke: could we make it "Ubuntu Book Excerpts" and not in System Documentation ? [08:46] yes, that's the idea [08:46] i still think it sucks though [08:47] did you read the part in my email about that [08:49] yes [08:49] I think it is a bit odd they argue that their won't be competition because they are different media and targets (books vs. online docs) [08:49] s/their/there/ [08:49] but maybe I misunderstood [08:50] yeah, it's all balls. [08:50] I'm starting to suspect there is a commercial reason behind it, maybe it's part of the contract or something [08:50] hmmm [08:50] that could be [08:51] i was just as shocked as you all are that it is going to be included [08:52] ompaul: i won't have time to hook up this evening, we'll have to do it another time. [08:54] jjesse: mark said that the discussions about inclusion included the authors [08:55] mdke, I knew it was going to be included, but I thought the time frame was edgy [08:55] there was some talk of possibly having it for dapper, but that was only talk, afaik [08:56] ah [08:56] Burgwork: btw, you pinged me earlier? [08:57] maybe we should have Mark fill out a UI Freeze exception report ;-) [08:57] Burgwork: while you're here, what do you think about having book sections in System/Help? [08:57] mdke, I have someone who speaks italian and whose english is a little broken. They also said they couldn't get a hold of the ubuntu-it people. Can I forward you the email? [08:57] Burgwork: course [08:58] mdke, I have forwarded two to you [08:58] cool [09:00] Burgwork: your take on System/Help/Book [09:00] ? [09:00] hmm, thinking [09:01] sorry, work is busy [09:01] np [09:11] well, there are always decisions made by leaders that we would like to change. You can't please everyone I suppose. [09:11] but this and that darn Edubuntu background are really the only things bugging me so far about Dapper [09:13] heh [09:14] as always at this time in the release cycle, I start getting frustrated that Mark gets a million ideas and wants to implement them all at the last minute [09:15] mdke: maybe we need to give him a fake release date, say 2 months before we really release, so then he can have his fun and we can have time to implement, ignore, etc. :-) [09:15] yeah, but he decides the release dates too :-( [09:15] we need a sabdfl freeze [09:15] LOL, yes! [09:16] i remember jdub proposing that for breezy... [09:16] an sabdfl freeze? [09:16] i gtg [09:17] bye mdke [09:18] cya mdke [09:20] mdke, I like the idea of having the book available, but oppose it for dapper [09:22] hmm, I'm starting to dislike the whole LTS think a bit. It seems like there is a lot of "We gotta get this in because this our big release" but some stuff just isn't timed right [09:23] 'some stuff' will never be timed right :( [09:23] exactly [09:23] and lots of stuff is on the way, it just won't be done in time for dapper [09:25] but most of this is in hind sight, it is very hard to predict where the distro will be 6 months down the road [09:30] mdke, no worries === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:55] holy crap! Canonical is going to be hiring about 24 new people int he new few months [10:56] excellent. [10:56] for what? [10:59] anything and everyting [10:59] see marks blog === mpt_ [n=mpt@203.109.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:23] Burgwork: btw our new wiki is up. I've started writing down some things we could do before it goes live, feel free to add: https://new-help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiToDo [11:23] same goes for everyone else too [11:25] mdke, very cool [11:26] mdke, you should apply to canonical to lead the doc team full tie [11:26] s/tie/time [11:26] especially since you are always here anyway. Might as well get paid for it ;-) === Burgwork is thinking of applying to canonical, in a mixed marketing/sales role === jenda [n=jenda@unaffiliated/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:27] Burgwork: I would quite like a job with canonical, maybe in local community or documentation, but I'm certainly tied up until september [11:28] i wonder if they need a lawyer [11:28] mdke, I am certain they could wait for a few months [11:28] heh, if they need someone to do that in the first place [11:29] mdke, you can sell yourself [11:29] actually, the locoteams need a bit of loving [11:29] it's all a bit disorganised [11:29] I don't think there is a single person on the doc team that wouldn't support you [11:29] awww, shucks [11:29] yes, a full time loco team contact would be nice [11:29] you have a good mix of social and technical skills, plus dedication [11:29] btw, what has happened to ubuntu-ca? [11:30] http://www.ubuntu.ca/ [11:30] ah, the current owner is MIA [11:30] we have not lost the domina, merely the DNS is screwy [11:30] ubuntu-ca.org is going there too [11:30] ya, I know [11:30] long story [11:31] mdke: btw, what is going to happen to Edubuntu pages when the wiki moves? This EC job has got me all Edubuntuized ;-) [11:32] LaserJock: what do you want to happen? [11:32] I'd say, the documentation can come to help.u.c, and anything community should stay [11:33] but obviously, these things are a matter for the edubuntu people [11:35] hmm, that might become interesting [11:36] we'll have to talk it over. it might make a dandy agenda item or the next meeting :-) [11:36] right, now wiki.edubuntu.org gives the edubuntu theme to the pages. Would that still be in place on the new wiki? [11:37] s/,// [11:37] LaserJock, are you guys not moving everything to moin anyway? [11:38] Burgwork: hmm? There is presently a decent amount of documentation on the present wiki [11:38] sorry, not moin === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:41] LaserJock: we haven't planned any theming for the new wiki at the moment [11:41] to drupal, or whatever the new thing is [11:45] Burgwork: haven't heard of that but it could be [11:46] it's a CMS [11:47] LaserJock, the thing highvoltage is working on [11:47] ompaul: still around? [11:52] hmm, well in the mean time we might have to figure out which, if any, of the pages should go to the new wiki [11:54] LaserJock: the current system is that any page with CategoryDocumentation in it is going to get moved === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc