/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/05/16/#ubuntu-kernel.txt

=== JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-165-202-116.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-kernel
lamontso I'm using git-bisect to find this ia64 kernel annoyance... and the bisected place is FTBFS... how do I tweak it one version to the left or right?01:08
lamontheh... RTFweb-page01:14
lamontBenC: ping01:27
=== lamont would love to know where the debian/ directory went...
=== lamont decides to just blame it on 64-bit isms in git
lamontmaster source tree to do the git bisect commands in, then rsync --delete it to the other machine to build and test.  simplicity in its finest01:36
zulBenC: ping https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/4128401:53
=== ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@trider-g7.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel
=== Topic for #ubuntu-kernel: Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | New git tree for dapper: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide | 2.6.15-22.34 uploaded (The last kernel you'll ever need....just kidding....but not really) | If you have ANYTHING you want in dapper kernel, message BenC here, or email me directly bcollins@ubuntu.com (malone is kind of noisy right now so I might miss things on there)
=== Topic (#ubuntu-kernel): set by BenC at Sun May 7 16:36:45 2006
=== #ubuntu-kernel [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
=== human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.236] has joined #ubuntu-kernel
lamontgit bisect good04:15
lamontBisecting: 90 revisions left to test after this04:15
lamontwoot!04:15
lamontotoh, make -j4 on the faster box is nice.04:17
lamontand ccache is love04:18
lamontcluster stuff, or acpi... now there's a trivial-seeming question04:22
lamont1.5% ccache miss rate.04:25
lamontYou already have a ELILO configuration in /etc/elilo.conf04:31
lamontInstall a boot block using the existing /etc/elilo.conf? [Yes]  04:31
lamontgrumble.  I thought we'd fixed that04:31
lamontand git-bisect bad04:33
lamont18 minutes. not bad04:33
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=== lamont gets to play with reverted reverted acpi patches
lamontoh joy04:37
lamontBenC: any chance you're around?04:50
=== lamont rolls the dice again
infinityKeybuk: Still around?05:27
Keybukinfinity: yup05:27
infinityKeybuk: Does udev create tape devices?05:28
Keybukdunno, know anyone who's got one?05:28
infinity(From #ubuntu-server):05:28
infinity19:22 < IRCsloth> anyone using an adaptec 29160 and a Seagate DDS4 drive?05:28
infinity19:23 < IRCsloth> in 2.4 based kernel distros without udev I get a /dev/st0 device but on hoary i05:28
infinity                  see the device in dmesg but a /dev/ device doesn't get loaded.05:28
infinityErr, "but on hoary"... Nevermind.05:28
Keybukget them to try a dapper CD05:28
infinitySomehow I missed that bit.05:28
KeybukI assume it does05:28
KeybukI can't believe the kernel people would have driver-core'd scsi and missed of tapes05:28
KeybukI've got a rule in there to put them in the "tape" group too05:29
infinityDoes seem unlikely.05:29
KeybukSYSFS{type}=="1",                       RUN+="/sbin/modprobe -Qba st"05:31
Keybukyeah, I do that too05:31
=== Keybuk just checked
lamontneato.  4900 lines of diff -u, and the patch break in the middle of the two fails in a completely different manner.05:32
Keybuk                st_class_member =05:32
Keybuk                        class_device_create(st_sysfs_class, NULL,05:32
Keybuk                                            MKDEV(SCSI_TAPE_MAJOR,05:32
Keybuk                                                  TAPE_MINOR(dev_num, mode, rew)),05:32
Keybuk                                            &STp->device->sdev_gendev, "%s", name);05:32
Keybuklooks ok to me05:32
infinityKeybuk: Kay, cool.  Thanks.05:33
Keybukthat's far too much research05:33
Keybukthis SoC list is soul destroying05:33
lamontKeybuk: udevplug shouldn't spew a series of visit_entry: error stat '/sys/devices/pci0000:a0:0000:a0:04.0/////////////////////////////re': No such file or directory05:33
lamontright?05:34
lamontI don't think I've ever seen "Begin: Waiting for the root file system... ..." before.05:34
Keybuklamont: no, it shouldn't do that :p05:37
Keybukthat sounds like rr sysfs gone bye-bye05:37
Keybuklamont: initramfs-tools does that if you enter mountroot() without the root file system device existing05:38
Keybukit'll wait up to three minutes for it to show up, on the basis you may have a slow scsi/usb device that hasn't caught up yet05:38
lamontyeah... so now I have a diff to stare at.05:46
lamontI just wish it were shorter.05:46
=== lamont wonders if drivers/acpi/tc1100-wmi.c actually gets used on ia64
lamontsadly, that's not part of the diff though05:49
lamontbut it does have an ia64-fatal bug05:49
lamont  CC [M]   drivers/pci/hotplug/acpiphp_glue.o05:50
lamontdrivers/pci/hotplug/acpiphp_glue.c: In function ioapic_add:05:50
lamontdrivers/pci/hotplug/acpiphp_glue.c:633: warning: gsi_base may be used uninitialized in this function05:50
lamontthere's a candidate05:50
lamont                acpi_bus_generate_event(device, event, (u32) wmi->state);05:52
lamontneato05:52
=== dapp-live-macmin [n=ubuntu@cpe-066-057-008-035.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel
dapp-live-macminmjg59: around ?06:05
crimsundapp-live-macmin/g2: he's most likely asleep, as he's in the U.K.06:06
dapp-live-macmincrimsun: thx06:06
dapp-live-macmincrimsun: I guess the dapper livecd kernel only runs one processor, correct ?06:08
Keybukincorrect06:15
Keybukdapper kernels are SMP06:15
dapp-live-macminKeybuk: then it's a bug06:16
Keybukwhat is?06:16
dapp-live-macminor acpi only reports 1 processor for a duo06:17
Keybukpastebin /proc/cpuinfo06:17
dapp-live-macminhttp://pastebin.ca/5498206:18
Keybukand uname -a ?06:18
dapp-live-macmin2MB cache size ... yummy 06:18
infinityLiveCD uses -386 doesn't it?06:18
dapp-live-macminnod06:19
infinityWhich is the only non-SMP kernel.06:19
Keybukahh, I thought -386 was SMP as well now?06:19
infinity(To support some sketchy old ISA drivers that aren't SMP-able, IIRC)06:19
dapp-live-macminuname -a06:19
dapp-live-macminLinux ubuntu 2.6.15-21-386 #1 PREEMPT Fri Apr 21 16:43:33 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux06:19
Keybukyeah, infinity's right, that isn't an SMP kernel06:19
Keybuksucky06:19
dapp-live-macminIs there a different livecd ?06:20
infinityGiven the nasty hardware requirements of a livecd in general, I'd be all for taking a vote to change the livecd to -686, but that would be for Edgy.06:20
infinityNow way we want to make that sort of change 3 weeks before dapper.06:20
dapp-live-macminor can I roll my own kernel and rebuild the livecd ?06:20
dapp-live-macmins/my/ubuntu's/06:20
infinitydapp-live-macmin: Is it really important that the livecd use both cores?06:21
dapp-live-macmininfinity: well actually I'm looking to have a macmini based ubuntu06:21
dapp-live-macminso I'll want that kernel for the install06:22
Keybukdapp-live-macmin: the fact the CD isn't bootable on a Mactel will hit you first ;)06:22
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dapp-live-macminumm I'm booted on it now06:22
infinitydapp-live-macmin: Anyhow, you could take the squashfs from the livecd, mount it, "cp -a" the contents to a directory, chroot into it, "apt-get --purge remove linux-image-2.6.15-21-386 && apt-get install linux-686", exit, and resquash the FS.06:22
Keybukoh, did someone make mkisofs support HFS+ thingy now?06:22
dapp-live-macminKeybuk: no, boot camp can boot to ISO CDs06:23
infinitydapp-live-macmin: But what's on the livecd doesn't matter for the install.  You boot the livecd, install to the real system, install another kernel.06:23
Keybukoh, you boot-camped it06:23
Keybukthat's cheating, anyway :)06:23
dapp-live-macminKeybuk: well for now06:23
dapp-live-macmindapper can't see the hfs fs06:23
dapp-live-macminI'm planning on having a dual Mac OSX/ Ubuntu environment anyway06:24
dapp-live-macminI think with refit, and lilo/elilo I might be able to install Dapper now06:24
dapp-live-macminand have refit default to ubuntu06:25
dapp-live-macminMy pal did an install from the livecd and it trashed Mac OS06:26
dapp-live-macminit's confused about the real MBR06:26
Keybukelilo06:26
dapp-live-macminthat issue needs to be worked out06:26
dapp-live-macminKeybuk: does elilo build with dapper ?06:26
infinityYes, it's in dapper.06:27
dapp-live-macmininfinity: that's the binary right ?06:28
infinity-EPARSE06:28
infinityOf course the binaries are in dapper.  Doesn't make much sense to just ship the source. :)06:29
Keybukalthough, if we only shipped the source, we wouldn't need anyone to feed the buildd hamsters06:29
dapp-live-macmininfinity: wel my question was does it build with dapper06:29
infinityThe hamsters are doing well today anyway.06:29
infinityI gave them 3000 packages to eat, and they've not choked much.06:29
=== infinity finds some wood to knock on.
infinitydapp-live-macmin: Yes.  Does build and is built.06:30
Keybukthe ia64 port kinda relies on it06:30
infinityKeybuk: Well, to be fair, we had to hunt a few obscure bugs to make it stop breaking on i386/MacTel.06:30
infinityBut yes, we've been building it for ages on ia64, and it works fine.06:31
=== fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel
infinity(And by "we", I mean mjg59, who did most of the hunting and irritating us on IRC until it worked)  :)06:31
Keybukhe gave up before he finished though :)06:32
Keybukonce all the difficult bits were done, he got bored06:32
infinityWell, the only blocker is the hfs+ thing.06:32
Keybukyeah, and that's "trivial"06:32
infinityIf so, please fix it on Saturday in your copious spare time. :)06:32
dapp-live-macminKeybuk: great, so I'll play clean up06:32
Keybukheh, I did look at it actually06:33
Keybukand it's in my todo list if nobody beats me to it06:33
Keybukbut haven't yet reached any spare time06:33
Keybukmostly just plodding through the Apple HFS+ spec and cargo-culting the existing HFS code in mkisofs to match06:33
infinityI need new hardware.06:34
Keybukyou do?06:34
Keybukwhat's wrong with the hardware you have?06:34
infinityNo ipw3945, no ATI X1xxx, no MacTel, I had nothing "obscure" for this release cycle to test on.06:34
Keybukheh06:35
=== Keybuk hugs his X2
infinityLast cycle, I was all about "new and broken" with my PCIe laptop, which is now old-hat. :)06:35
Keybuknothing particularly obscure, except nothing in Linux supports SLI06:35
infinitynVidia SLI?06:35
Keybukaye06:35
infinityThe craptastic binary driver can do it, no?06:35
Keybukit claims to yes06:36
infinityIts claims are false?06:36
KeybukI have to use that anyway, as the even-crapper source driver goes "is that an nVidia? doesn't look like one to me!"06:36
Keybukdunno06:36
Keybukglxgears -iagreethatiamanaadvark gives me 300000 FPS06:36
infinityOuch.  New PCI IDs, or are we programming the card wrong?06:36
Keybukso I guess that could be an indication that it works06:36
Keybukinfinity: not sure06:36
Keybukthey're pretty new cards06:37
Keybuk7800 GLX06:37
infinityCould just be PCI IDs, then.  If you could test adding your IDs to nv, that would be awesome.06:37
Keybukcould be supported now, but weren't earlier06:37
dapp-live-macminis dma for disks turned on in this kernel ?06:37
infinity7900 and some 7800 stuff were pretty shiny just recently.06:37
Keybukdapp-live-macmin: probably06:37
Keybukwe turn dma on if it looks like it won't bring the world down in pieces around you06:38
Keybukinfinity: it's sufficiently shiny that lspci just says "Unknown device"06:38
infinityOh, lord.  You wouldn't believe the number of users who think installing an X driver should change the PCI database.06:39
Keybukhmm, PCI id is listed in the nv driver now06:40
Keybukit might work06:40
KeybukI've got a reboot coming up for new kernel anyway, will try it then for kicks06:40
infinityI've triaged SEVERAL bug reports that say something like "I installed fglrx, but lspci still says 'Unknown Device' for my video card, does that mean it doesn't work?"06:40
Keybuk*giggle*06:40
Keybukyeah, it's amazing how down-trodden people look when you explain it's just a text file that somebody gets round to updating some time each century06:41
=== infinity nods.
infinityI guess it wouldn't hurt to have that text file have some sort of include functionality, and let upstreams ship updated ID/description pairs, but that's certainly not done now.06:41
KeybukI like how each PCIe card appears numbered as if it were an entire bus all to itself06:41
KeybukI also like how the PCIe subsystem is busted, and just numbers everything pcie0006:42
=== dapp-live-macmin likes how PCIe has BW
infinityThey are a bus to themselves.06:42
Keybuk0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 0090 (rev a1)06:42
Keybuk0000:02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 0090 (rev a1)06:42
infinityPCIe guarantees dedicated bandwidth, unlike PCI.06:42
=== dapp-live-macmin is now known as [g2-macmini]
Keybuk. o O { one would have thought I'd've patched that by now to actually say the right card }06:42
Keybukbut given it's a "standard" file, probably best just to leave it alone06:43
infinity<shrug>... It'll be out of date a month after release anyway, so whatever.06:44
Keybukwhat's wrong with this picture? :)06:44
Keybukquest scott% ls /sys/bus/pci_express/devices06:44
Keybukpcie00@  pcie00@  pcie00@  pcie00@  pcie03@  pcie03@  pcie03@  pcie03@06:44
Keybuk-- 06:44
infinityThe same thing that's wrong with mine? :)06:45
Keybukreadlink /sys/bus/pci_express/devices/pcie00 ... which one?06:45
infinityI just love how sysfs doesn't have to follow any of the usual rules of a sane filesystem.06:45
infinity"Bah, duplicate filenames are FINE"06:45
fabbioneKeybuk: 06:45
Keybukit's _supposed_ to follow the usual rules06:45
Keybukthe pci_express bus is just busted06:45
fabbionei was almost close to point the sodomotron towards you this morning when i saw "Waiting for nfs /path/to/nothing/real"...06:46
Keybuk(in-kernel implementation that is)06:46
fabbione;)06:46
infinityAnyhow, all my duplicate links all go to the same duplicate target, so it's harmless, just ugly.06:46
Keybukinfinity: that's a bug too06:46
Keybukoh grr @ paste06:46
Keybuk/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0e.0/pcie0306:47
Keybuk/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0e.0/pcie0006:47
Keybuk/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0d.0/pcie0306:47
Keybuk/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0d.0/pcie0006:47
Keybuk/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0c.0/pcie0306:47
Keybuk/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0c.0/pcie0006:47
Keybuk/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0b.0/pcie0306:47
Keybuk/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0b.0/pcie0006:47
Keybuk-- 06:47
Keybuksupposed to be different devices06:47
Keybukfabbione: I could do with a go on the sodomotron, bf isn't around for a couple of weeks :-/06:47
Keybukwhat was it?06:47
fabbioneKeybuk: ehhe stop fixing bugs than :P06:47
Keybukfabbione: was it the "keybuk uploaded the debugging version of that script which happily looked inside comments" one? :)06:48
fabbioneKeybuk: yes...06:48
fabbioneKeybuk: it took a while to boot up ;)06:48
Keybukbah, it only waits 90s06:48
fabbionecat /etc/fstab | grep ^# | wc -l06:48
fabbione3406:48
Keybukdude, wtf do you have in your fstab ?!06:49
fabbionemost of them are old nfs mount points to shared chroots06:49
fabbioneoh i am not that upset...06:49
Keybukaww06:51
[g2-macmini] Keybuk: any idea how fast the GigE is on the mini duo ?06:52
Keybuk[g2-macmini] : probably about 1,024Mb/s06:53
[g2-macmini] Keybuk: you think it's do line rate ?06:53
KeybukI've got no idea06:53
Keybukthe answer appears to be in the question though06:54
Keybuk"how fast is this 300 baud modem?"  ...  "300 baud"06:54
Keybuk"how fast is this GigE network card?"  ...  "gigabit"06:54
[g2-macmini] my AMD64 does 400+Mbs and which is limited by the SATA disk06:54
[g2-macmini] it'll do 600+ over the wire from memory06:54
[g2-macmini] and 2.4Gbs through the IP stack06:54
[g2-macmini] real numbers measured06:55
KeybukSATA should be faster than that06:55
Keybukisn't it 300MB/s ?06:56
[g2-macmini] no hdparm returns around 60MBs06:56
[g2-macmini] and I get about 57-58MBs over the wire06:56
fabbioneKeybuk: well the speed of the bus != speed of the disk :)06:56
[g2-macmini] so it's disk limited06:56
Keybukfabbione: true06:57
[g2-macmini] when I pull from memory it goes 600+06:57
fabbioneKeybuk: when i pull from my SAN i get around 200MB/sec from the disks06:57
fabbionebut then i hit the switch 2Gb bottle neck06:57
[g2-macmini] I haven't RAIDed the disk as 28 seconds for a Gigabyte transfer was fast enough06:57
Keybuk Timing cached reads:   3660 MB in  2.00 seconds = 1829.36 MB/sec06:58
Keybuk8GB/s should be more than enough to saturate a GigE06:58
[g2-macmini] fabbione: you should be able to do 256MBs on the 2G no ?06:58
[g2-macmini] 128MB will saturate a GigE06:58
fabbione[g2-macmini] : never heard of protocol overheads?06:58
Keybukhell, my laptop can saturate it's gige06:58
fabbionewhen you start encapsulating scsi over fc-hba over raw fiber...06:59
[g2-macmini] fabbione: yes I was talking relative not absolute06:59
=== [g2-macmini] used to write NPU firmware
fabbione[g2-macmini] : raw = 2Gb..07:00
fabbioneonce you get to the data i get around that07:00
[g2-macmini] well nice chatting guys07:03
[g2-macmini] time to reboot this mini and build elilo on another boxen07:03
[g2-macmini] cheers all07:04
=== [g2-macmini] [n=ubuntu@cpe-066-057-008-035.nc.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-kernel ["Ex-Chat"]
Keybuk"build" ?07:04
Keybukis he a Gentoo person, do we think?07:04
crimsun(no, he uses Debian, and he works with the openwrt guys. he's from my LUG.)07:05
lamontBenC: btw, 7e856098daf7275030504b7f149f49e27010e887 or the one before it is the patch that broke ia6407:16
Keybukinfinity: got a second?07:25
infinityDepends.  Will my second be useful to you?07:26
Keybukall the blah-22-* in anastasia are due to an ABI change, right07:26
Keybukin the seeds they're still -21-*07:26
Keybukshould those be updated now, or is there some reason they haven't?07:26
infinityThe seeds should be updated to 22, now that d-i has been.07:27
infinityApparently, someone forgot, assuming that someone else would do it. :)07:27
infinityI can do the seeds now, if you'd like.07:28
KeybukI have the seeds open now07:28
Keybukwas making other changes07:28
infinityKay.  Do everyone at once.07:28
Keybukyup07:28
infinity(For this change, anyway)07:28
Keybukquest dapper-seeds% grep " * Kernel-Version" *07:28
Keybukinstaller: * Kernel-Version: 2.6.15-22-amd64-generic07:28
Keybukinstaller: * Kernel-Version: 2.6.15-22-hppa32 2.6.15-22-hppa6407:28
Keybukinstaller: * Kernel-Version: 2.6.15-22-38607:28
Keybukinstaller: * Kernel-Version: 2.6.15-22-itanium-smp07:28
Keybukinstaller: * Kernel-Version: 2.6.15-22-powerpc 2.6.15-22-powerpc64-smp07:28
Keybukinstaller: * Kernel-Version: 2.6.15-22-sparc6407:28
infinityRight, so merge that to kubuntu/edubuntu/xubuntu, so we can all be happy about the CDs not being broken.07:29
Keybukthis will cause a whole bunch of stuff to want to move to universe, right?07:29
=== infinity suspects this is the cause of lamont's earlier lament that his kernel didn't match his modules on a recent daily CD.
Keybukhow do you tend to merge?  just pull the lot?07:30
infinityKeybuk: Should cause all of the -21- stuff to want to go to universe, but we just want to remove it anyway, since it's NBS.07:30
Keybukright07:30
infinityKeybuk: I just merge the single revision.  I keep all the seeds sitting next to each other, so I can just do "bzr merge -r15..16 ../ubuntu/" in the other seeds.07:31
Keybukyeah, never changed the others before07:32
Keybukjust copying and reverting them now07:32
Keybuk... I made a 1-line change, why does push take a metric week?07:36
lamontsigh.  -g kernel machine checks07:37
Keybuk. o O { I should be able to bind these checkouts now, right? :p }07:41
infinityI'm mostly bzr illiterate, so I dunno.07:47
Keybukright, gonna try that reboot and nv driver07:52
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lamont  CC [M]   drivers/media/video/stradis.o08:21
lamontdrivers/net/skge.c:108:25: error: h/skversion.h: No such file or directory08:21
lamont  CC [M]   drivers/media/video/cpia.o08:21
lamontbad kernel08:21
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fabbioneBenC: can you please pull from my archive before next upload?01:06
fabbionechangelog: add inotify syscalls to syscall_table.S for parisc01:06
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zulheylo02:13
fabbionehi zulighno02:15
zulheh...hey fabiomassimo02:15
zulhow is it going?02:17
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fabbionezul: as usual and you?02:23
zuljust winding stuff down at work02:24
zulhow is x going?02:24
fabbioneit's going... another day and it will be done (my side)02:25
zulcool02:26
BenCfabbione: yeah, pulling now02:29
=== BenC notices this morning he forgot about the distro meeting
fabbioneBenC: thanks dude.. any ETA for the upload?02:29
BenChopefully over the weekend02:29
fabbioneok02:30
=== fabbione is getting ready for holidays
zulstaying home?02:30
zulBenC: i dont think you got back to me last night about my noapic question 02:30
BenCzul: "yes"02:30
zulokie dokie02:31
fabbionezul: nope...02:31
zulor i didnt see the anwser02:31
fabbioneflying to italy for 4 days02:31
BenCI think we are having a dmi blacklist issue with some IBM laptops though02:31
fabbioneand 2 days at home02:31
BenCfabbione: have a relaxing time02:31
fabbioneBenC: i hope so.. i need it02:31
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mjg59IBM laptop dmi blacklist?02:32
BenCI think there are some IBM laptops that are broken because some blacklist is too vague02:33
mjg59BenC: Whereabouts?02:33
BenCproblem is right now that my guess about this is very vague aswell :)02:34
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BenCthe guy at IBM doing our abat stuff can't boot his laptop with dapper02:34
BenCI need to catch him when he has some time02:34
mjg59Urgh. What hardware?02:36
BenCcan't remember, he pasted this info in /msg while I was asleep last week02:37
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mjg59Heh02:38
mjg59I didn't think we had any Thinkpad DMI lists, except for apm02:38
zulBenC: where is the list btw?02:40
BenCI can't recall where off hand, but I remember adding some R30 stuff over the course of dapper02:40
mjg59BenC: Oh, yes. R40.02:42
mjg59But all that does is disable CPU low-power states.02:42
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[g2] Keybuk I'm a build from source kinda guy, my company does embedded linux distros04:08
[g2] I did a couple year tour with Gentoo, but for the past couple years it's be OpenEmbedded and Debian/Ubuntu04:09
[g2] would this be the place to chat about an EFI network installer or #ubuntu+1 ?04:10
[g2] #ubuntu-boot ?04:11
BenCEFI or PFE?04:13
=== BenC has done EFI on an ia64
[g2] EFI04:13
BenCwhat does it need?04:14
[g2] BenC let's back up a minute... what's PFE ?04:16
BenCmaybe it's PFX, but it's the intel network boot protocol04:16
BenCfor x8604:16
zulPXE isnt it?04:16
BenCyeah, that's it :)04:16
BenCtoo many stupid acronyms04:16
[g2] heh04:16
zulheh...pxe is easy to do..i have done it before04:16
[g2] well the MacIntel already has network booting as an option04:17
BenCI thought EFI would be even easier, just create a kernel+initrd image04:17
[g2] I haven't tried network booting dapper04:17
zulBenC: same thing with PXE04:17
[g2] so there are 2 scenarios04:18
BenCPXE is easy, but the lilo pxe stuff isn't straight forward to setup04:18
zultrue, but I used syslinux04:18
[g2] 2 scenarios I can see for the MacIntel04:18
[g2] 1) your replacing Mac OSX and it doesn't matter your taking over the machine04:18
BenCg2: ia64 is EFI, and we support network booting from it, so I suggest just duplicating what it does04:19
[g2] 2) you want to co-exist04:19
[g2] or tri-boot04:19
BenCg2: well, those are installer issues, handled at install, irregardless of the boot method04:19
BenCand I am pretty sure we handle them in some way04:19
BenCnot sure that the x86 installer is pivvy to MacOSX being a possible alternate OS though :)04:20
[g2] BenC well Dapper trashed my OSX rootfs last night when updating the 3rd partition04:22
[g2] so while in theory it doesn't matter at all, there are in practice issues to be worked out04:22
BenCdefinitely an issue for #ubuntu-boot or whatever channel04:23
[g2] ok I'll take that up over there04:23
[g2] that leaves the issue of building the kernel to run from EFI04:24
[g2] i'ts a kernel config option for running from EFI that doesn't have legacy support from my understanding04:24
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BenCEFI is enabled in the kernel04:34
BenCnot sure what else would be needed, if anything04:34
infinityOur kernels are already MacTel-ready, afaik.04:34
infinityWe're just lacking a tiny bit of mkisofs magic to get our install CDs to boot sanely, so we can go from there.04:35
infinityAnd no, booting with bootcamp doesn't count, since that then doesn't give us an EFI-ish system to work with, and sucks in ways we'd rather not deal with.04:36
[g2] infinity so basically it's Ubuntu or the highway ?04:41
infinityErr, no...04:41
infinityBasically, it's "we need to fix our mkisofs to create HFS+ magic, then we can worry about the installer working right"04:42
infinityCause B won't ever happen without A.04:42
[g2] infinity can we work on both issues in parallel ?04:43
[g2] I've got 2 mini's one is the target04:44
[g2] so from EFI we can do many things to the disk04:44
infinityCan you boot the install CD from EFI?04:44
[g2] I do with boot camp04:44
infinityIf not, it's a bit tough to test the install CD as booted from EFI.04:44
infinityYou see what I'm saying here?04:44
infinitybootcamp provides you with some extra layers of hardware abstraction we don't want to deal with, aiui.04:45
infinity(like giving us a fake VGA BIOS we don't want to deal with, etc, etc)04:45
[g2] right, no need to re-invent the wheel twice04:46
[g2] I'm fine with that, I'm asking more about compatibility04:46
[g2] if I understand you, having an HFS+ based livecd allows the CD to boot from EFI by just holding down the "C" or Apple C key04:47
[g2] that's the place you want to start from, correct ?04:47
infinityIt's not the filesystem on the livecd that matters, but the tiny little boot filesystem that the bootloader is read from.04:48
[g2] stick in the CD/DVD, hold the C/Apple C key down, wake up in Ubunutu04:48
infinityBut yes, essentially, we need HFS+ on the CD, so we can bless it, so the braindead MacTel version of EFI will boot it.04:48
[g2] correct04:49
[g2] my point was we can bless the disk image that will result from the install and potentially start testing and debugging that now04:49
[g2] you are absolutely correct, that for the process to work straight from CD/DVD other things need to happen 1st for the final product04:50
[g2] I'm just suggesting a different way of debugging the process which may be totally off base04:51
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\shmoins05:29
\shdpkg-gencontrol -isp -pkernel-source-2.6.15.6-ubuntu1 -Pdebian/tmp-source/05:29
\shdpkg-gencontrol: error: package kernel-source-2.6.15.6-ubuntu1 not in control info05:29
\shis it just me? or is the latest kernel package somehow not buildable 05:29
mjg59[g2] : If you boot in boot camp, you don't have access to EFI05:30
mjg59[g2] : Our kernels have about as much mactel support as they're going to have (other than a couple of bugs which I've just submitted patches for)05:30
mjg59[g2] : I've been testing the Ubuntu installer. We know what bugs there are for mactel installs, and they're pretty easy to fix. The booting is the fundamental issue05:31
\shok...apt-get source and apt-get install is totally different...problem is sitting in front of the keyboard05:33
lamontBenC: ping05:36
lamont\sh: -22.34?05:38
\shlamont: yeah...just installed the source package of the source package of the linux kernel  .. totally wrong05:42
zul\sh: its easier if you install git and get the git tree05:42
lamontand it sounds like you installed kernel-source instead of linux-source...05:42
BenClamont: pong05:54
\shlamont: yeah I did:)06:05
[g2] mjg59 ok so let's talk about the booting06:06
mjg59[g2] : As far as the booting goes, you can either boot with bootcamp (loses access to EFI) or from EFI (for booting off CD, this requires an HFS+ filesystem on the CD to contain a blessed elilo)06:07
[g2] ok timeout right there06:08
[g2] booting with bootcamp to the current Dapper 2 beta works06:08
[g2] clearly, the install is the issue IMHO06:09
[g2] as that standard image _could_ just install and bless and HFS+ fs on the disk, no ?06:09
[g2] I can fully understand ubuntu may want to release a _next gen_ EFI i32/i64 release that utilized EFI06:10
[g2] I think your second scenario is that instance on an HFS+ fs06:11
[g2] does that make sense ?06:12
mjg59[g2] : No06:17
[g2] mjg59 Ok06:18
mjg59We don't have anything for producing HFS+ filesystems06:18
mjg59(We won't distribute APSLed stuff)06:18
[g2] is HFS+ under some Apple souce license ?06:19
mjg59Yes06:20
[g2] Ok, so two issues with that are:06:20
mjg59But if you're booting with boot camp, then there's no point in creating extra HFS+ partitions06:20
mjg59Since you've almost certainly got MacOS anyway, and it comes with one06:21
[g2] right06:21
mjg59The biggest drawback with bootcamp is that dealing with the partition table is very very difficult06:21
mjg59Because you have two partition tables that have to be kept precisely in sync06:21
[g2] so you are saying we put elilo on the 3rd partition and format that in a sane way06:23
mjg59No06:24
mjg59elilo can live happily in the FAT partition06:24
mjg59But you need to be able to set EFI variables to make it bootable06:24
[g2] well bootcamp already creates a FAT partition that's bootable no ?06:25
mjg59No06:25
mjg59Not in any useful way06:25
mjg59It's not about whether partitions are "bootable" or not06:25
mjg59In the Mac universe, there's no such thing06:25
[g2] this is all EFI stuff06:25
[g2] and apple's implementation of it06:26
mjg59No06:26
mjg59Macs do not boot in the same way as EFI does normally06:26
mjg59Apple have wedged their own boot system into EFI06:26
mjg59EFI can boot off any partition it can read files off06:26
[g2] right as it's "open" more so in the BSD sense06:26
mjg59I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, I'm afraid06:27
mjg59The mactel boot system is basically a slight modification of the way Macs have booted since the blue and white G3s06:27
[g2] I mean the EFI code apple is using is probably based on the EFI code release as a reference by Intel06:27
mjg59In order to get EFI to boot a file, you need to have access to EFI06:28
mjg59But Apple have provided no mechanism for doing that06:28
[g2] the EFI boot loader is read in off the SPI right ?06:29
[g2] a question is how locked down that SPI is06:29
[g2] my boards ship with a JTAG header to be able to reflash the bootloader06:30
[g2] I'm sure there's some equivalent on the Mini's06:30
mjg59Well, the question here is what are you trying to do?06:31
[g2] that's easy -- dual boot dapper and os x06:31
mjg59If you just want to run something yourself, this can all be done without JTAGing06:31
mjg59There's a couple of bugs in the installer that you'll have to work around, but other than that all you need is a USB stick06:31
[g2] Ok, usb stick/ external usb drive ?06:32
mjg59Yeah06:32
mjg59That's the easiest way06:32
[g2] I've got plenty of those06:32
mjg59Make an HFS+ partition on it, copy the kernel and initrd off an install CD, put elilo on there, write an appropriate elilo.conf (it just has to pass the same kernel options as isolinux would), bless elilo, reboot, hold down alt, select the USB drive06:33
mjg59And make sure the install CD is in the drive06:34
[g2] Ok... what about creating another partition that has the squashfs or the whole contents of the CD inside and pass an option th the kernel that elilo is booting ?06:37
[g2] that way the booting kernel doesn't need to deal with HFS+ which is the issue at hard, but the media doesn't need to be CD either06:38
mjg59There's no requirement for the media to be CD06:38
mjg59It's just handy06:38
mjg59You can put it on a USB device or whatever if you want06:38
[g2] ok, so mounting on the network would work too06:39
mjg59I believe so, yes06:39
mjg59In that case you might need the netinstall images rather than the ones on the install CD06:39
mjg59But at that point it's fairly unrelated to the kernel, so not really on-topic here06:39
[g2] right06:40
lamontBenC: if you happen to upload a new kernel before I finish tracking down 40286? (ia64 oops), please change ia64 config to have CONFIG_ACPI_DEBUG=y06:43
lamontthat at least masks the problem.06:43
mjg59crimsun: I think we need a combined headphone/mute LED quirk06:48
[g2] mjg59 infinity THX for the time discussing the EFI/kernel issues06:50
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crimsunmjg59: commit http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=2de01f5ad849fae75ea6339a7c8e9d08b49178e0 was originally the combined headphone/mute LED quirk, which was the state in -21- that bug 44066 reports. If we revert that, we break what was fixed in bug 41015. Apparently we have identical sub{vendor,device} ids with different behaviour :/07:02
cjbcrimsun: I've wondered whether that's possible.  Oh dear.  :/07:03
crimsunI'll double-check our 2.6.12 later this afternoon.07:05
BenClamont: ok07:07
mjg59crimsun: I wasn't clear on what the bug in 41015 was07:11
mjg59Surely that's just asking for the nc8220 to have hp_only set?07:12
mjg59Which is what the combined quirk did07:13
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mjg59BenC: I've just sent you a patch that saves/restores MSI interrupt state over suspend/resume - can we get that in as quickly as possible? It's probably why some machines are b0rked09:17
BenCyeah09:17
mjg59Cool, thanks09:17
BenCnp09:18
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chninkelhi10:15
chninkelI have a package which need the kernel headers to be built10:15
chninkelon which package should I build depend ?10:15
crimsunlinux-headers-$(uname -r) | linux-headers10:20
crimsunalthough the latter is arguably frowned upon10:21
crimsunchninkel: are you working on lirc?10:23
crimsunchninkel: if so, are you merging Debian experimental's 0.8.0-1?10:23
BenCchninkel: then you need to build depend on all the headers for each arch you support with that package10:25
BenCchninkel: just like linux-restricted-modules does10:25
BenCbecause it needs to be built for all the linux-image packages that could be installed10:25
chninkelcrimsun: I was thinking about it, I just noticed the experimental yersterday10:27
chninkelcrimsun: I don't know if I should better drop the updated lirc package I did or if I should try the experimental one10:28
crimsunchninkel: I would merge 0.8.0-1, frankly, and drop Ubuntu bits if/when they conflict10:28
crimsunchninkel: the exception being nomenclature like "linux-" vs. "kernel-" in debian/control*10:28
chninkelcrimsun: ok I will try the experimental one10:29
chninkelcrimsun: I just wondered if if was a good idea at that time10:29
chninkelBenC: thanks for your answers10:31
BenCchninkel: np, I would really suggest checking out l-r-m's build system to help get the module targets right10:32
chninkell-r-m ?10:33
BenClinux-restricted-modules-2.6.1510:35
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zulheylo11:33

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