[12:41] <ajmitch> morning
[12:41] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch
[12:42] <ajmitch> why are there still more than 10K bugs open? :)
[12:44] <crimsun> I'm trying dood, I'm trying
[12:45] <ajmitch> heh
[12:45] <ajmitch> http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/international/news/20060512p2g00m0in033000c.html
[01:00] <tritium> Hi LaserJock.  Sorry I missed you earlier.
[01:00] <crimsun> looks like you missed him again :p
[02:05] <Hobbsee> morning all
[02:06] <ryanakca> G'night Hobbsee :P
[02:06] <Hobbsee> hehe bye ryanakca
[02:06] <Yagisan> G'day all
[02:06] <Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
[02:06] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: just wake up ?
[02:06] <Hobbsee> something like that
[02:07] <ryanakca> lol... I'm not leaving.... just saying that it's 20:06 out here...
[02:07] <Hobbsee> hehe...what fun
[02:07] <ryanakca> hmmm... translating is harder than I thought... since all the programs I use are english...
[02:08] <Yagisan> ryanakca: yes, my wife tells me how hard translating is. Having tried it myself, I tend to agree, and have more respect for her.
[02:09] <ryanakca> Yagisan: lol.... what language does she translate to?
[02:09] <Yagisan> ryanakca: she translates my work stuff to Japanese
[02:10] <ryanakca> Ouch... sounds tough... I'm working on french... MUCH simpler :)
[02:11] <Yagisan> ryanakca: need to reverse sentence order, no plurals, no future tense. Not an easy job
[02:11] <ryanakca> and programs have special syntax/phrasing... It isn't freeform translation... lots of rules and stuff...
[02:11] <ryanakca> Thank god theres Rosetta....
[02:11] <ryanakca> that web interface is a saviour....
[02:11] <ryanakca> brb... dog wants out...
[02:15] <ryanakca> back
[02:15] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: japanese has no plurals or future tense?  i'd forgotten about that...
[02:15] <tseng> hi
[02:15] <ryanakca> no future tense? how does that work out?
[02:18] <Yagisan> ryanakca: present & future tense is the same to them
[02:19] <ryanakca> wow... so I'm walking the dog could mean that I will walk the dog or I'm presently walking the dog? heh... confusing :P
[02:22] <StevenK> I suspect it could be determined by context.
[02:22] <ryanakca> yeah....
[02:22] <Yagisan> ryanakca: eg watashi wa omise ni ikimasu. I will go to the shop. watashi wa omise ni ikimasu. I am going to the shop. How do you tell. by context comes to mind, but you need to pick up the implied parts too.
[02:23] <StevenK> Hah, I was right.
[02:23] <Yagisan> StevenK: partially
[02:24] <ryanakca> heh... interesting
[02:24] <Yagisan> StevenK: sometimes you can't tell by context, as Japanese is a very ambiguous language.
[02:24] <Yagisan> StevenK: it is implied or assumed you know much of what they are talking about
[02:25] <ajmitch> hi
[02:25] <StevenK> But if you don't, you're stuffed.
[02:25] <Yagisan> G'day ajmitch.
[02:26] <Yagisan> StevenK: this is a favorite of mine. When you want them to do something they don't want to eg buy a service contract
[02:26] <Yagisan> StevenK: they never say no, instead you get
[02:27] <Yagisan> StevenK: chotto musukasi desu ne - literally "it's a liitle bit difficult", what they mean is "No bloody way"
[03:08] <zul> heylo
[03:08] <ajmitch> hi zul
[03:09] <zul> hey ajmitch how goes the battle?
[03:10] <ajmitch> alright
[03:14] <ajmitch> hello bddebian
[03:14] <Yagisan> ajmitch: how about a break from ubuntu work, and look for my heisenbugs instead
[03:15] <ajmitch> which is also ubuntu work?
[03:15] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:15] <bddebian> Hi ajmitch, Yagisan
[03:15] <Yagisan> ajmitch: not today. future work yes, but not today
[03:15] <Yagisan> G'day bddebian
[03:16] <ajmitch> what are the heisenbugs?
[03:16] <ajmitch> or can you not say, since that would violate observability?
[03:16] <zul> fine dont say hi to me...*pout*
[03:16] <bddebian> Hi zul
[03:16] <zul> hey bddebian
[03:16] <bddebian> I didn't "see" you yet :-)
[03:16] <zul> sure sure..
[03:16] <Yagisan> zul: sorry - my daughter is puking so I'm distracted. Hi
[03:17] <zul> hehe..
[03:17] <bddebian> Ewww
[03:17] <zul> Hi Yagisan
[03:17] <Yagisan> all night shes been doing it :(
[03:17] <bddebian> Vomiting children are never any fun :-(
[03:19] <Yagisan> ajmitch: basically it is observed that some values that are initialised to 100, and *never* touched again, are somehow 0 when compared.
[03:19] <ajmitch> impressive
[03:19] <ajmitch> what code is this in?
[03:19] <Yagisan> ajmitch: that deng game that I'm cleaning up
[03:19] <ajmitch> ah
[03:20] <Hobbsee_away> Yagisan: haha great.
[03:20] <Yagisan> ajmitch: yet it works on mac and windows
[03:21] <crimsun> ajmitch: shouldn't be the kernel. There haven't been any strange updates to ac97/intel8x0.
[03:21] <crimsun> ajmitch: sorry
[03:21] <crimsun> Hobbsee_away: ^
[03:21] <Hobbsee_away> crimsun: okay.  seems to have been something with ndiswrapper or something really odd...
[03:21] <Hobbsee_away> it seems to be okay now...
[03:21] <Hobbsee_away> we'll see :)
[03:22] <crimsun> ok, good.
[03:22] <crimsun> sound makes me weep, ya know, so please don't frighten me =)
[03:22] <Hobbsee_away> hehe
[03:22] <Hobbsee_away> crimsun: but you're so good at troubleshooting it :D
[03:23] <crimsun> for values of good approaching insanity...
[03:23] <Yagisan> ajmitch. does the order of .c files mater in the makefile ? I doubt it, but, well it would be nice to pick up a health bottle without being punished with instant death.
[03:24] <ajmitch> it shouldn't matter
[03:25] <Yagisan> ajmitch: didn't think so.
[03:57] <jabra> so I think I found a bug with dapper
[03:57] <jabra> not sure if I need to report it
[04:03] <Hobbsee> jabra: if it's not already there, report it
[04:08] <jabra> k
[04:08] <jabra> tryin to check to see if it is right now
[04:17] <jabra> not sure if this is a bug or a fix
[04:17] <jabra> so I have a broadcom 44 and broadcom wifi card
[04:18] <jabra> nope nm
[04:18] <jabra> it is a bug that will be filled
[04:18] <jabra> filed
[04:37] <crimsun> jabra: note that with 2.6.15-23.35, there are updates for bcm43xx
[04:41] <jabra> right I'm using b44
[04:41] <jabra> the issues is flaky connecttion
[04:41] <crimsun> yeah, don't know anything about b44
[04:42] <jabra> there are issue with bcm43xx but i'm not even using it
[04:43] <jabra> ok nevermind
[04:43] <jabra> same thing happnes when I'm in xp
[04:43] <jabra> so I gotta call my isp instead of a bug filing
[04:43] <jabra> thanks
[04:49] <bddebian> persia: You here?
[04:50] <persia> bddebian: Yes - just banging my head against the lack of comments or consistent indentation in vegastrike :)
[04:50] <bddebian> heh
[04:51] <bddebian> persia: Didn't I upload gweled?
[04:51] <persia> bddebian: No.  gweled is fairly broken in several ways, and my latest patch didn't apply cleanly (outdated).  It's near the bottom of my priority list, so I haven't fixed it.  I should make a comment in the bug :)
[04:52] <bddebian> Oh, OK, sorry.  I'm losing track :-)
[04:53] <persia> bddebian: No worries.  Also, could you please reassign #33573?  I don't have permission.
[04:54] <bddebian> Is that gnome-bluetooth?
[04:55] <persia> bddebian: Yep.  When I try to assign to "Nobody" instead of "MOTU Reviewers Team", it is a NOP.
[04:55] <bddebian> OK, I'll try
[04:58] <bddebian> Hmm, didn't work for me either
[05:35] <Laser_away> bddebian: hmm, you got to labplot before I did :)
[05:37] <bddebian> Sorry man
[05:37] <bddebian> You snooze, you lose ;-P
[05:38] <LaserJock> hehe, well my inlaws are here so I can't devote as much time to bug fixing :-)
[05:40] <bddebian> Ignore them like I do :-)
[05:42] <LaserJock> I am, they are over at the kitchen table right now :-)
[05:42] <LaserJock> what about xcircuit
[05:42] <ajmitch> just leave them all to bddebian
[05:42] <bddebian> I was trying to ping Kamion to see if he would get pissed if I just uploaded it :-)
[05:42] <ajmitch> bddebian: have you requested a sync?
[05:42] <LaserJock> bddebian: I don't think so, the UVFe was approved
[05:43] <bddebian> ajmitch: It's a new package from upstream
[05:43] <bddebian> Jumping Debian
[05:43] <ajmitch> why should he care then?
[05:43] <bddebian> I dunno, seems like I'm always getting in trouble for shit :-)
[05:43] <ajmitch> if it's universe, and doesn't break the archive, then it should be ok
[05:43] <bddebian> OK, I'm on it then
[05:44] <LaserJock> bddebian: it looked pretty good to me. I haven't built it yet
[05:44] <ajmitch> of course debian had bugs filed with no response about new upstream versions, etc
[05:44] <bddebian> LaserJock: It works great afaict
[05:44] <bddebian> ajmitch: I think tuxmaniac intends to ITP it for Debian
[05:44] <bddebian> Or at least send the packaged version over for them
[05:44] <ajmitch> if it's in debian, then there's no ITP involved
[05:45] <LaserJock> ajmitch: it is up for adoption
[05:45] <ajmitch> right
[05:45] <bddebian> That's what I meant, sorry
[05:45] <ajmitch> still not an ITP
[05:45] <LaserJock> so whatever the "I'm going to adopt it" is
[05:45] <ajmitch> you have to know your TLAs to work in debian
[05:46] <LaserJock> bddebian: did you happen to test it on ppc?
[05:47] <bddebian> No, I don't have a PPC :-(
[05:47] <ajmitch> how about sparc64 or ia64? :)
[05:48] <bddebian> You can buy me one of each of those too :-)
[05:49] <LaserJock> well there is a bug open about ppc and I wondered if it would be fixed with the new version
[05:50] <bddebian> I believe it will but I don't know for sure
[05:50] <bddebian> It definetly fixes the menu bug
[05:59] <LaserJock> yeah, it would at least be good to have a newer version for the reporter to try
[06:00] <bddebian> It's up
[06:01] <LaserJock> bddebian: I see it, great
[06:06] <bddebian> heh
[06:06] <`6og> lol ajmitch - i was about to say that ;P
[06:06] <bddebian> I don't care about you guys, I fear the wrath of Kamion, mdz, elmo, etc ;-P
[06:07] <ajmitch> you don't care about us?
[06:07] <ajmitch> I'm deeply hurt now
[06:07] <bddebian> Bah, I love you guys man
[06:07] <ajmitch> hah
[06:07] <ajmitch> as if ;)
[06:07] <bddebian> And that's pretty tough for a right-wing nutjob to admit ;-P
[06:08] <ajmitch> you're right-wing? hah
[06:08] <bddebian> Well next to most of you I'm Rush Limbaugh :-)
[06:09] <LaserJock> Go Rush! ;-)
[06:09] <ajmitch> bddebian: nah, I'd still call you a flaming liberal ;)
[06:11] <LaserJock> which Burgundiva told me the other day, was not an insult in Canada ;-)
[06:11] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that's because canada is full of communists anyway :)
[06:12] <bddebian> Canukistan? ;-P
[06:13] <ajmitch> don't worry
[06:13] <ajmitch> we've got Comrade Helen for a leader here :)
[06:19] <bddebian> Why, you aren't going to fix anything anyway
[06:20] <ajmitch> true
[06:20] <bddebian> bah
[06:23] <bddebian> Yeah right :-)
[06:26] <LaserJock> hmm, I've got a zope-zms unmet dep bug on my list. ajmitch you fixing that?
[06:27] <ajmitch> LaserJock: how's it on your list?
[06:27] <bddebian> He's hitting all the zope ones
[06:27] <ajmitch> bug 41550 is assigned to me
[06:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41550 in zope-zms "[UNMETDEPS]  zope-zms has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41550
[06:28] <ajmitch> it *may* get removed from dapper, not sure
[06:28] <ajmitch> barely maintained in debian, at least
[06:28] <LaserJock> ajmitch: zope-zms is on my list of science bugs I think
[06:28] <ajmitch> ok
[06:28] <ajmitch> but it's just waiting on packages in NEW
[06:28] <ajmitch> as are the rest of the zope uninstallables
[06:28] <LaserJock> ok, cool
[06:28] <ajmitch> I should harass kamion again
[06:30] <LaserJock> I have motuscience as a bug contact for ~ 400 source packages
[06:32] <LaserJock> the only problem is that there is a science package named "boot" so I'm getting a bunch of bugs about boot problems :(
[06:32] <ajmitch> that's good
[06:33] <ajmitch> then we've at least got someone watching that package who can reassign the bugs
[06:33] <LaserJock> heh, true. I hadn't thought of that
[06:34] <LaserJock> as long as I don't have a package called "X"
[06:34] <LaserJock> :-)
[06:36] <bddebian> hehe
[06:37] <LaserJock> the only problem has been that I can't unsubscribe a team
[06:51] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: Hi again.. Good morning
[06:53] <bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
[06:53] <bddebian> tuxmaniac: Uploaded your xcircuit :-)
[06:53] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: Yeah saw it.. And seems like the thanks is always flowing in the opposite direction
[06:54] <bddebian> ??
[06:57] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: no yaar!! You always say thanks to me for my wrk..
[06:57] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: Actually I should be saying thanks for encouraging this n00b
[06:58] <bddebian> :-)
[06:58] <bddebian> We're all n00bs in some way or another :-)
[06:59] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: :))
[06:59] <tuxmaniac> So its night there isnt it?
[07:00] <bddebian> Sort of.  Technically it's morning ;-)
[07:00] <bddebian> 1am
[07:00] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: Oh ok
[07:04] <LaserJock> hi tuxmaniac
[07:05] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Saw my guru's work??
[07:05] <LaserJock> tuxmaniac: yeah, I had to tell him to do it ;-)
[07:05] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock: he has changed status of Xcircuit to fix committed
[07:06] <LaserJock> no no, the thanks does belong to you tuxmaniac
[07:06] <LaserJock> and I'm ver gratefull for bddebian's help
[07:07] <tuxmaniac> anyways.. lets all work for Community
[07:07] <tuxmaniac> no personal pleasure involved.. though anything and everything will have some selfishness
[07:07] <tuxmaniac> like bddebian 's karma of 50K :D
[07:08] <LaserJock> heh
[07:08] <LaserJock> I'm in it for the money
[07:08] <LaserJock> :-)
[07:08] <tuxmaniac> :))
[07:12] <bddebian> Not anymore they knocked me down to 20 some K :-)
[07:12] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[07:31] <ajmitch> LaserJock: money? where??
[07:32] <tuxmaniac> ajmitch: I was about to ask that!! But thought it was out of topic
[07:32] <tuxmaniac> :)
[07:32] <ajmitch> never
[07:33] <ajmitch> hehe
[07:36] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm a grad student with a grad student wife that just graduated
[07:36] <LaserJock> so that is like way poor
[07:36] <ajmitch> yeah I've got a friend like that
[07:36] <ajmitch> except his wife is sick, he's got 4 kids
[07:37] <ajmitch> so they're even poorer
[07:37] <LaserJock> yikes, I don't have any kids
[07:38] <ajmitch> hehe
[07:38] <ajmitch> night bddebian :)
[07:38] <bddebian> Gnight folks..
[07:38] <bddebian> Keep up the good work! :-)
[07:38] <bddebian> And thanks again tuxmaniac ;-P
[07:46] <ajmitch> probably
[07:47] <ajmitch> the rich people are the ones who don't have time for such frivolities :)
[07:49] <LaserJock> I bet -devel has all the rich ones :-)
[07:49] <LaserJock> notice that sabdfl doesn't hang out here often ;-)
[07:50] <ajmitch> haha
[07:50] <ajmitch> -devel has the ones who are truly whipped :)
[07:50] <ajmitch> with the hours they put in...
[08:04] <LaserJock> hi G0SUB
[09:23] <crimsun> oh geez, 1 June is right around the corner :/
[09:25] <LaserJock> crimsun: yes, although I'll be glad to get it done
[09:25] <LaserJock> this is my first complete release, and it has been long
[09:26] <crimsun> this one certainly is going to have been long, although I surely will not miss what I had to do with vlc for Breezy.
[09:27] <crimsun> that was a three-day stint with no sleep wrestling with wxwidgets2.6 and finally throwing in the towel and reverting to wxwindows2.4
[09:28] <LaserJock> uggh
[09:28] <crimsun> and of course, there are /still/ complaints about its ugly interface in breezy ;)
[09:53] <Toadstool> hi all
[10:24] <phanatic> hi people
[10:24] <ivoks> hi
[10:37] <freeflying> crimsun: hi
[10:49] <zakame> hi phanatic ivoks freeflying crimsun
[10:50] <phanatic> hey zakame
[10:50] <freeflying> zakame: hey
[12:25] <siretart> crimsun: pong
[12:25] <siretart> morning
[12:27] <ajmitch> hi siretart
[12:30] <siretart> heyho ajmitch
[12:33] <Hobbsee> hi siretart
[12:33] <Hobbsee> not yet though :)
[12:34] <siretart> hi Hobbsee
[12:40] <kgoetz> Hobbsee: you just have a Jabber account die?
[12:53] <Hobbsee> kgoetz: ah, yeah
[12:53] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe...i'll be nice to you this time, and not make you do it :P
[12:53] <Hobbsee> you finished the last lot yet?
[12:58] <ajmitch> of course
[01:06] <Hobbsee> hi StevenK
[01:07] <ajmitch> poor Hobbsee, always getting squashed
[01:07] <StevenK> Hence why she's so little!
[01:07] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:10] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I'm just bringing you back to your proper shape!
[01:11] <ajmitch> hi Mithrandir
[01:11] <Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch
[01:11] <tseng> hi Mithrandir
[01:11] <Hobbsee> hi tseng
[01:11] <Mithrandir> hiya to you too tseng
[01:11] <tseng> hi Hobbsee
[01:16] <StevenK> Such quality software.
[01:17] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:19] <StevenK> :-[ WRITE@LBA=80030800h failed with SK=2h/ASC=04h/ACQ=08h] : Resource temporarily unavailable
[01:20] <StevenK> And there's another coaster. If it was a CD I wouldn't care. DVD media is a little more expensive. :-/
[01:21] <Yagisan> StevenK: burner ?
[01:22] <StevenK> Yagisan: Huh?
[01:27] <Mithrandir> StevenK: dvd-rws rock.
[01:32] <Yagisan> StevenK: burner working ok ? I had a burn that did similar things. ended up using it as a coffee holder now
[01:32] <Yagisan> s/burn/burner
[01:32] <StevenK> It just burnt sucessfully.
[01:32] <StevenK> It does this every 25th burn or so.
[01:33] <ajmitch> night all
[01:34] <Yagisan> night ajmitch
[01:34] <Hobbsee> night ajmitch
[01:35] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: why ? all the cool people never sleep
[01:35] <Hobbsee> hehe...true...
[01:36] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: remember my heisenbug ?
[01:36] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: yep
[01:36] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: the root coause is, a routine called P_Init
[01:37] <Hobbsee> kgoetz: jabber seems to be up and down like a yoyo - seems to keep just dropping out
[01:37] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: ah, great.  which does?
[01:37] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: it exists. It is called. It is built and linked correctly. Yet it never actually runs :(
[01:37] <Hobbsee> ah...
[01:37] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: I made it only print out "Gremlins!" and yet - still nothing happens
[01:38] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:38] <kgoetz> Hobbsee: i have one account that wont stay connected, the others file
[01:38] <Hobbsee> gremlins seems like a good thing to print :P
[01:38] <Hobbsee> kgoetz: ah okay... .au by any chance?
[01:38] <kgoetz> spot on
[01:38] <Hobbsee> they must be having trouble with their server
[01:39] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: I swear it just mocks me for the fun of it. At least it was an incentive to try an learn C
[01:39] <kgoetz> again :/
[01:39] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:41] <StevenK> Yagisan: I would have pegged you as knowing C.
[01:44] <Yagisan> StevenK: well, I can generally understand the code, but I don't really write it, nor have I ever formally studied it. I was always a lower level language person.
[02:47] <siretart> hardware sucks
[02:48] <kelmo> lucky ram is cheap enough these days
[02:49] <siretart> yeah, but being sure that 4 bars of 128mb for your spare box where you want to play with xen and stuff is sufficiently okay, is expensive
[02:49] <phanatic> how could i umount a filesystem, when it says "device busy" (this is a proc filesystem mounted temporarily for a chroot environment)
[02:50] <siretart> hey kelmo, btw :)
[02:50] <kelmo> umount -l, maybe
[02:50] <phanatic> kelmo: i'll try it
[02:50] <kelmo> lazy umount is handy sometimes ;-)
[02:50] <kelmo> hi siretart ;)
[02:50] <siretart> phanatic: make sure that you run fuser on the fs first
[02:50] <phanatic> kelmo: it was umounted
[02:50] <phanatic> siretart: what's that?
[02:51] <siretart> phanatic: just to make sure no processes are blocking the device. lazy umount will afaik always succeed, but the results may be.. interesting
[02:51] <kelmo> usually you can lsof +d /dir
[02:51] <kelmo> +D
[02:51] <phanatic> siretart: thanks. how shall i use that 'fuser' command?
[02:51] <kelmo> lsof +D /dir
[02:51] <kelmo> to see whats happening there
[02:51] <siretart> or lsof, yes
[02:52] <siretart> phanatic: I usually run fuser -k /mnt/foobar
[02:52] <kelmo> fuser -k to kill
[02:52] <phanatic> lsof lists nothing and it still says device busy
[02:52] <phanatic> i'll try fuser
[02:53] <phanatic> i get still the same "device busy"
[02:54] <siretart> hm
[02:54] <siretart> perhaps the process is state 'D'?
[02:55] <persia> phanatic: /proc is special.  You probably want to stop all processes in the chroot (including the initial bash, or whatever) before unmounting.
[02:55] <phanatic> persia: as i said, i already exited from the chroot (i used chroot mnt/ /bin/sh)
[02:57] <kelmo> siretart: in other news, i've hacked in a crude roaming solution, that is almost entirely managed by ifupdown
[03:06] <siretart> kelmo: I had a look at your 'roaming' branch
[03:06] <kelmo> siretart: when, though?
[03:07] <siretart> kelmo: but this wasn't really what I described. I wanted a tiny new package, which depends on wpasupplicant. not another wpasupplicant package which introduces additional behavior
[03:07] <siretart> or did I miss something?
[03:07] <kelmo> yes, you forgoit i am crazy, and have totally changed tact about that solution
[03:07] <kelmo> that was proof of concept only
[03:07] <kelmo> no i persure something which fits in with current stuff
[03:07] <kelmo> now*
[03:08] <siretart> aha?
[03:11] <kelmo_lap> siretart, http://rafb.net/paste/results/YtJEVw34.html
[03:11] <kelmo> that will interchange between those 3 network stanza's
[03:12] <kelmo> there are some improvements to ifdown that could make this cleaner, i has spoken very briefly to aj about that
[03:12] <kelmo> ifupdown*
[03:12] <kelmo> and need to do a writeup and email it ti him
[03:13] <kelmo> also, i want wpa_supplicant to pass a shell variable to the action script, a network "alias"
[03:13] <kelmo> or rather, a ssid alias
[03:14] <kelmo> for the purpose of mapping some network configuration from the interfaces file, for example
[03:14] <siretart> I don't get right now how this is supposed to work
[03:14] <siretart> I thought for this kind of stuff, you'd need a 'mapping-script'
[03:16] <kelmo> siretart: i did not paste the package diff, just the idea
[03:16] <kelmo> the mapping is done by an action script
[03:16] <siretart> uuuh, now I see
[03:17] <siretart> to be honest, I had something else in mind. without the need of any action script at all
[03:17] <siretart> well. thinking again about this.. hmm
[03:17] <siretart> this could be a nice solution as well..
[03:17] <siretart> hmm. I have to think about this
[03:17] <kelmo> i think it is
[03:18] <kelmo> i just need to remove some ugly bits over time
[03:22] <thesaltydog> I need to let a package build-depend on libgtk2-perl (>= 1:1.100-1) if in Debian, or from >=1.100-1 if in Ubuntu. How can I write that line in the control file?
[03:24] <siretart> kelmo: what change to ifupdown could make this nicer?
[03:24] <siretart> kelmo: you mentioned talking with aj about this
[03:24] <kelmo> siretart: not marking the state of the master roaming interface in the ifstate file
[03:25] <kelmo> ie, when you first ifup to start the daemon
[03:25] <kelmo> that iface is "up"
[03:25] <kelmo> so you have to somehow workaround that
[03:25] <kelmo> i used --force option in the action script
[03:25] <kelmo> with manual inet method for master iface
[03:25] <siretart> kelmo: ah, now I remember why I wanted to do it this way. because of this
[03:26] <siretart> kelmo: I was rather thinking about starting the supplicant by the init script, and leaving ifupdown alone. at first
[03:26] <kelmo> siretart: thats what i previously did
[03:26] <siretart> kelmo: then, the action script ifups or ifdowns the interface
[03:26] <kelmo> siretart: but this seems much more comfortable
[03:26] <siretart> kelmo: what problem did you see here?
[03:26] <siretart> more comfortable in what way?
[03:26] <kelmo> an extra system service, two more conffiles to change/maintain
[03:27] <siretart> yes, but thats an extra package. thats okay for me
[03:27] <kelmo> siretart: major problem:
[03:27] <kelmo> hotplugging
[03:28] <kelmo> an action script won't wait for the control socket to appear
[03:28] <kelmo> ifupdown's allow-hotplug fixes that very well
[03:29] <siretart> kelmo: can you point me to some documentation what this 'allow-hotplug' stanza is supposed to do excatly?
[03:29] <kelmo> and some cards don't like the -w option of wpa_sup
[03:29] <siretart> it is still a bit like vodoo to me
[03:29] <kelmo> siretart: not voodoo
[03:30] <kelmo> $ zgrep  allow-hotplug /usr/share/doc/udev/*
[03:30] <kelmo> /usr/share/doc/udev/README.Debian.gz:only on interfaces marked with the "allow-hotplug" statement.
[03:30] <kelmo> /usr/share/doc/udev/README.Debian.gz:E.g: "allow-hotplug eth0" instead of the usual "auto eth0".
[03:30] <siretart> ah, in udev. okay. I'll look
[03:31] <kelmo> siretart: this was my basis for refuting your hotplugging support
[03:31] <kelmo> in a previous discussion
[03:32] <siretart> ok
[03:32] <siretart> now I see
[03:32] <siretart> it is very similiar to what ubuntu does wrt to 'auto' interfaces
[03:32] <kelmo> sure
[03:33] <siretart> you're right that what I propose isn't too nice wrt to hotpluggable interfaces..
[03:33] <kelmo> no, and basically, in the end, its almost exactly what i proipose now
[03:33] <siretart> but leaving that to ifupdown just confuses it with interface states and can cause subtle inconsistencies
[03:33] <kelmo> yes, i agree there too
[03:34] <siretart> hmmhmm. now where do we go from this point?
[03:34] <kelmo> siretart: dunno, I am thinking about sneaking this into the experimental package for next upload
[03:35] <kelmo> as previous behaviour is preserved
[03:35] <kelmo> then start some discussion about it
[03:35] <kelmo> if its crap, people will say so
[03:35] <kelmo> we could reinstate the old init script in another package . . .
[03:38] <siretart> kelmo: I like the idea of testing it in experimental, but not that much in having it in the 'wpasupplicant' package
[03:39] <kelmo_lap> impossible to split this solution apart
[03:40] <kelmo_lap> insane, even, it hurts noone if they dont use it
[03:40] <kelmo_lap> actively/consciously use it
[03:40] <kelmo_lap> you can split the good ol init script apart, however
[03:40] <kelmo_lap> i just _really_ dislike that
[03:41] <kelmo_lap> (the init script, not the split)
[03:42] <kelmo_lap> how about i put them both side by side in the archive to rot for a while
[03:42] <siretart> hm, i see
[03:43] <siretart> well, since you don't introduce any conffiles with your approach, testing it in experimental seems a good idea to me
[03:43] <kelmo_lap> well, there is one conffile at this time
[03:44] <kelmo_lap> and that is what could be done within wpa_supplicant upstream
[03:44] <kelmo_lap> ssid "alias"
[03:44] <siretart> err which conffile do you mean?
[03:44] <kelmo_lap> and secreting that as a shell variable to wpa_cli
[03:45] <kelmo_lap> siretart, i do a regex search for an ssid alias in /etc/wpa_supplicant/profiles
[03:45] <kelmo_lap> for multi word ssid's, for example, you cannot have a mutli name interfaces in the interfaces file
[03:46] <kelmo_lap> or strange characters
[03:46] <kelmo_lap> and some networks will use a common network configuration
[03:46] <kelmo_lap> therefore it is useful to map them to the same "alias"
[03:46] <siretart> right. so we need some kind of 'mapping'
[03:47] <kelmo_lap> this is what i've implemented:
[03:47] <siretart> and we encounter again that ifupdown isn't the solution for what we actually want to do
[03:49] <kelmo_lap> siretart, http://rafb.net/paste/results/sLHdCX63.html
[03:50] <kelmo_lap> that would dissappear if one would work on a patch to upstream
[03:50] <kelmo_lap> as already discussed previously on the hostap mailing list
[03:51] <siretart> kelmo_lap: what should the patch do, and is /e/n/i copied there on purpose?
[03:52] <kelmo_lap> siretart, so you can see the mappings
[03:52] <siretart> ah ok
[03:52] <kelmo_lap> siretart, i've said this twice tonight:
[03:52] <kelmo_lap> to screte an ssid alias to wpa_cli
[03:52] <kelmo_lap> secrete*
[03:53] <kelmo_lap> in the form of a shell variable
[03:53] <siretart> it might be perhaps better to first name the ifupdown name and then the essid, though
[03:53] <kelmo_lap> siretart, yep, okay
[03:54] <siretart> ah, ok. in the meantime, we can still learn the current ssid by calling wpa_cli status in the action script
[03:54] <kelmo_lap> yes
[03:54] <kelmo_lap> the action script does this:
[03:54] <kelmo_lap> gets ssid and bssid
[03:55] <kelmo_lap> serches profiles file for mapping to either ssid or bssid
[03:55] <kelmo_lap> searches*
[03:55] <kelmo_lap> then tries, ifup $IFACE=$MAP
[03:55] <kelmo_lap> if not found
[03:55] <siretart> try dhcp
[03:55] <kelmo_lap> it simply uses ifup $IFACE=$SSID
[03:55] <kelmo_lap> if that fails
[03:56] <kelmo_lap> then we have some fallback
[04:00] <kelmo_lap> yes, like dhcp or so
[04:00] <kelmo_lap> or noact
[04:00] <siretart> ok
[04:00] <kelmo_lap> guessnet does this:
[04:00] <kelmo_lap> suggests a default fallback interfaces mapping
[04:00] <kelmo_lap> which is just iface $IFACE inet dhcp
[04:00] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:00] <siretart> hey bddebian
[04:00] <kelmo_lap> hi bddebian
[04:00] <persia> hi bddebian
[04:00] <bddebian> Heya siretart, kelmo_lap, persia
[04:00] <siretart> kelmo_lap: in which part is this approach superior to what we already have? I remember felix (and others) complaining about 'breaking' his 'sweet' ifplugd setup :/
[04:01] <kelmo> siretart: why do we need ifplugd when wpa_supplicant already knows the state of the iface . . .
[04:01] <kelmo> why do we need guessnet when a simple script as an argument can do the interface mapping
[04:02] <kelmo> +argument to wpa_cli
[04:02] <kelmo> we know the ssid, we know the state
[04:02] <kelmo> we connect
[04:02] <siretart> but ppl seem to be a bit frightened about these action scripts
[04:02] <kelmo> siretart: this is how gentoo's baselayout works
[04:02] <kelmo> it is a proven method of operation
[04:03] <kelmo> imo
[04:03] <kelmo> but then, that is very subjective ;-)
[04:03] <siretart> well, gentoo doesn't use ifupdown. so I don't think this comparison is valid
[04:04] <kelmo> well, this is my best effort to remedy that void
[04:05] <siretart> right
[04:05] <siretart> I think what you are trying is a good idea and definitly worth experimenting with
[04:06] <kelmo> siretart: i absolutely understanbd this is no replacement for capable and low level tools
[04:06] <kelmo> such as network-manager
[04:06] <siretart> but I also think that I at least try to package a 'roaming system service', which uses ifplugd and guessnet directly. I'm curious if these tools can be glued together with a package
[04:07] <siretart> kelmo: it would be great if n-m could be enhanced by 2 features: static ips and a text only front-end
[04:07] <siretart> both feature are currently lacking :(
[04:07] <kelmo> ah well, i don't care much for that at all (WIG package)
[04:07] <kelmo> and i agree, nm needs some cli tools
[04:08] <kelmo> i think the focus is on the backend for it right now
[04:08] <kelmo> and also working closely with driver maintainers to make sure they are reporting the correct info
[04:08] <siretart> well, I confess, felix last post lowered my motivation in working on that
[04:09] <kelmo> yes, one reason why i persued this route
[04:09] <kelmo> as well
[04:09] <siretart> backend as in 'driver backend' for wpasupplicant?
[04:09] <kelmo> i was just referring to the backend of n-m
[04:10] <kelmo> and drivers reporting wpa support levels, state changes etc
[04:10] <siretart> ah. right
[04:11] <kelmo> so that no polling hacks, fora specific example, are required to track the state of ipw devices
[04:11] <kelmo> or madwifi reports to userspace that wpa/wpa2 is supported
[04:12] <siretart> :)
[04:13] <kelmo_lap> siretart, ok, here is a possible plan of action for wpasupplicant/roaming:
[04:14] <kelmo_lap> drop this extra "profiles"confile, and merge the action script and require ifupdown.sh changes into experiemntal
[04:14] <raphink> hi there
[04:14] <kelmo_lap> then work on patching wpa_supplicant to support an ssid "alias"
[04:15] <kelmo_lap> if people want to go ahead with the initscript-centric "WIG" package, that will be unaffected
[04:16] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I don't think this 'profiles' file should be a conffile at all
[04:16] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I agree that this is a configuration file, but no conffile
[04:16] <kelmo_lap> exactly
[04:16] <siretart> because we EXPECT users to edit it
[04:17] <kelmo_lap> i don't think it should even *exist*
[04:17] <siretart> right
[04:17] <kelmo_lap> so we should forget about it now
[04:17] <kelmo_lap> that would force/encourage us to work with upstream for a solution to it
[04:18] <kelmo_lap> or, if not possible, drop the idea alltogether
[04:18] <kelmo_lap> at the end of the day:
[04:18] <kelmo_lap> the ifupdown script is primarily for static interfaces stanza's
[04:18] <kelmo_lap> that is its advertised mode of operation
[04:19] <kelmo_lap> this is simply a side show
[04:19] <kelmo_lap> as long is the side show does not interfere with the advertised mode of operation, and we are responsible for maintaining the beast . . .
[04:21] <siretart> hm
[04:22] <siretart> true as well..
[04:23] <siretart> what bothers me is that some ppl are pissed that their working hack from sarge days doesn't  work anymore, and we don't really have a replacements for their cornercases
[04:24] <siretart> it is still a hack, of course. that what makes me sleep at night. but still I hope that we could provide at least something that fits their cornercases
[04:25] <kelmo> well, i'll throw up the initscript-centric package
[04:26] <kelmo> and split it out of wpasupplicant source
[04:26] <siretart> how about the package name 'wigroamer'?
[04:27] <kelmo> hehe, yeah
[04:27] <siretart> :)
[04:27] <kelmo> i'm not too interested in that approach however
[04:27] <kelmo> personally interested, that is
[04:28] <siretart> don't worry
[04:28] <siretart> I have some other things to fix first, but when time permits, I will do it and put it in our svn
[04:29] <siretart> it is just that my enthusiasm about this was lowered considerably
[04:29] <kelmo> okay then
[04:29] <siretart> and made me repriorize things
[04:29] <kelmo> good talking with you again, siretart
[04:29] <kelmo> i will push a new upstream unstable upload tomorrow i think
[04:30] <kelmo> 0.4.9
[04:30] <kelmo> if you find changes of mine you don't like in the next 20 or so hours, let me know
[04:31] <kelmo> hopefully by then, the last upload will have dropped into testing
[04:31] <kelmo> gn8
[04:32] <pef> hello
[04:32] <pef> I'm thinking about leaving ubuntu's world for a while, apart deactivating my launchpad account, what should I do ?
[04:34] <sladen> you shouldn't need to deactivate your launchpad account
[04:34] <sladen> but it would be handy to have a "Holiday setting" that stopped emails being generated
[04:35] <persia> pef: Just let your account lie dormant.  If you ever like, you can recover it, and if not, it doesn't take much space on the server.  You probably want to unsubscribe from all your bugs, and transition any packages.
[04:36] <siretart> a holiday mode would be great
[04:36] <siretart> pef: how about writing this to launchpad-users and ubuntu-motu?
[04:37] <pef> siretart: I'm not so active, I don't think I will miss to someone :]  I just don't want to miss something important, like persia said (bugs, subscribtions, ...)
[04:53] <persia> My C++ skills are not so strong.  Would anyone be willing to help me figure out how to track down the IO error I am receiving?  Short snippets from the code and backtrace are available from http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13909.  The section commented out is the original code, although it didn't use alutCreateBufferFromFileImage().
[05:00] <sladen> pef: I've filed:  https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/44542
[05:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44542 in launchpad "Request: add a "Holiday mode" to temporaily turn off email sending" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[05:01] <pef> sladen: nice :)
[05:14] <persia> nevermind.  malloc() is my friend.
[05:29] <siretart> sladen: wow. thanks (subscribing there now)
[05:32] <persia> siretart: I'm just completing final cleanup and testing on the vegastrike openal crasher (non-deb make worked!).  Do you know of any others that need code changes (while I'm familiar)?
[05:34] <siretart> persia: wow. you're me hero!
[05:34] <siretart> persia: no, I don't know about packages with similar problems. I'm quite surprised why vegastrike is suffering from this at all
[05:35] <siretart> persia: btw, I prepared the openal package for the next transition: libopenal1. upstream svn has already tagged it like that. but it seems that we don't need to rebuild again, since there are no file conflicts this time. at least I hope
[05:36] <persia> siretart: The code was using the deprecated sound functions in the ugliest way imaginable :).  Upstream is focused on the OGRE transition, and asked for vegastrike to be omitted from sarge.  This is low on their priority list.
[05:37] <siretart> persia: interesting. I know that openal is a bit in flux
[05:37] <siretart> persia: in fact, the openal implementation for linux is lagging way behind. upstream tries to keep up with the openal 1.1 spec
[05:37] <persia> siretart: Again?  Before Dapper?  We broke trigger, torcs, schorched3d, and vegastrike last time, although the work on sear and crystalspace was needed anyway.
[05:37] <siretart> persia: nono, in no way in dapper
[05:38] <siretart> persia: I'm preparing it for debian. perhaps I can get it into experimental
[05:38] <siretart> persia: but this is in no way a dapper thing.
[05:38] <siretart> persia: the transition was only done because the openal version before was really really ancient with many other problems
[05:38] <siretart> I didn't want you to be scared ;)
[05:39] <persia> siretart: I'm really happy about the transition.  Most of the games were crashing strangely, without an explanation, although they worked better without sound.  This seems more stable (now if only X hadn't started to crash in the last couple weeks...)
[05:40] <siretart> persia: the package was really orphaned in debian. the version before was some random cvs snapshot, not really supported, broken shlib file, open rc bugs for a long time
[05:40] <siretart> so I took it over
[05:41] <persia> siretart: Many thanks for the adoption.  It does seem better now.
[05:41] <siretart> :)
[05:45] <persia> siretart: debdiff attached to bug #44068
[05:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44068 in vegastrike "Starting vegastrike --> SDL Parachute Deployed" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44068
[06:41] <crimsun> siretart: hi, several people have been confused by /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.modes; it would be useful to note explicitly that wpa-psk and wpa-passphrase both should be used /without/ double-quotes ("), which is a clarification from wpa_supplicant.conf(5)
[06:42] <siretart> crimsun: now I get a bit confused. afaik wpa_supplicant.conf does not talk about " at all?
[06:43] <crimsun> siretart: in the examples in wpa_supplicant.conf(5), psk is used with "s
[06:44] <siretart> crimsun: well, right. but it talks about wpasupplicant.conf only, and not about /e/n/interfaces
[06:45] <crimsun> siretart: right, so /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.modes should be modified to note that /e/n/i wpa-p{sk,assphrase} should /not/ include "s
[06:46] <siretart> crimsun: ah. right. thats a good idea. could you please make this change in our svn?
[06:46] <crimsun> siretart: will do
[06:46] <siretart> ok
[07:03] <LaserJock> anybody know of any info on the specing process?
[07:16] <siretart> is daniele favara  around?
[07:16] <siretart> LaserJock: what do you want to know?
[07:18] <LaserJock> siretart: I was wondering what happens at the dev summit. So people write specs on LP/wiki and then does somebody organize them for review?
[07:18] <ivoks> and... for rest of us that weren't lucky to get a sponsor, will you be on IRC? :)
[07:19] <LaserJock> and then who reviews/approves them TB
[07:19] <siretart> LaserJock: in principle yes. in montreal, there was a reviewing session at the end of each day
[07:19] <siretart> LaserJock: then specs where approved or set back to 'needs more work' with comments left on the wiki
[07:19] <Kyral> ah that was a fun day, the Love Day :P
[07:21] <Kyral> When do specs have to be written by?
[07:23] <siretart> Kyral: before reviewing, i'd guess
[07:23] <Kyral> siretart: okay, rephrase
[07:23] <LaserJock> well, I've got to ge my karma up and bddebian steals all my bug karama, and then I'm unilingual so translations are no good
[07:24] <Kyral> when is the summet?
[07:24] <LaserJock> June 18-24
[07:24] <siretart> Kyral: at the begining of UBZ, there were some presorting of specs. specs which ppl (canonical ppl I think) found worth to be discussed. for these specs, BoF were scheduled
[07:25] <Kyral> siretart: I know, I wish I could have stayed beyond the Love Day
[07:25] <Kyral> damn school lol
[07:25] <siretart> Kyral: even if you don't make it to paris, I think it would be perhaps best to get your spec prepared before the meeting, so that perhaps bofs about it could be scheduled
[07:26] <Kyral> Well, right now only bddebian has agreed to help lol
[07:26] <Kyral> I wish I could be in Paris, but no cash....
[07:27] <Kyral> I still have to put the pictures I took from the Love Day up on my webspace someplace....
[07:30] <LaserJock> I don't think there wil be a Love Day this time
[07:31] <Kyral> yah well, I'd be mad if you guys partied without me!
[07:31] <LaserJock> hehe
[07:32] <LaserJock> I don't really party anyway. :-)
[07:35] <LaserJock> hmm, and I need to figure out what to drink in Paris, I've heard the water isn't great
[07:36] <ogra> love day was in wiesbaden on 6th of may this time
[07:36] <ogra> (on linuxtag)
[07:36] <Kyral> You are going LJ?
[07:36] <Kyral> for DevTeam?
[07:36] <ogra> for the trip
[07:38] <Kyral> Oh well
[07:38] <Kyral> I'll be working so
[07:38] <ogra> LaserJock, btw partying the last night after all specs and the work are done is mandatory
[07:38] <Kyral> and trying to port Ubuntu to HURD :P
[07:38] <ogra> LaserJock, its your duty to party with us ;)
[07:39] <Kyral> hehe
[07:39] <Kyral> Go LJ
[07:39] <Kyral> I'll work my way onto MOTU with my HURD work :D
[07:40] <ogra> LaserJock, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/UbzGallery/CIMG0279.html http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/UbzGallery/CIMG0280.html ;)
[07:41] <Kyral> and now, a gaming I will go
[07:42] <LaserJock> ogra: I haven't gotten an email but a reliable source told me yesterday I was on the list ;-)
[07:45] <LaserJock> hehe, jdub the party master
[07:45] <LaserJock> I wonder if the wild elmo gets crazy :-)
[07:46] <sladen> LaserJock: ...you'll find out in a month
[07:46] <LaserJock> true
[07:48] <ogra> sladen, so will we see you in paris ? or is that just to near for a paul sladen to even bother to travel ?
[07:50] <LaserJock> hmm, I just realized, I don't really have a computer to bring
[07:50] <ivoks> :)
[07:52] <sladen> ogra: answering that would give an unfair advantage to anyone placing bets
[07:53] <ivoks> lol
[07:55] <ogra> haha
[07:55] <ogra> i dont think anybody will have the balls to bet you're not coming this time ...
[07:55] <ogra> in montreal i'd have had good chances to make a lot of money :)
[07:56] <sladen> mmm, I should arrange the bets myself and pay for the travel that way!
[07:57] <ivoks> sladen: or you can wait with me... _ion promised to give me a milion, when he gets it :)
[07:58] <ivoks> anyone knows what's the price of one night in that hotel?
[07:58] <ivoks> and why are directions in .doc format? :)
[07:58] <LaserJock> heh, that's like the promises I made to people to take them when I win a Nobel ;-)
[08:03] <sladen> ivoks: I wonder if they were downloaded off the hotel's own site
[08:03] <ivoks> sladen: yes, they are :)
[08:03] <ivoks> sladen: still, no bedroom price :(
[08:03] <sladen> ivoks: the bedroom price has never bothered me
[08:04] <ivoks> luck you
[08:05] <sladen> ivoks: there's a big airport next door with plenty of Terminals to crash in
[08:05] <ivoks> :)
[08:06] <sladen> ivoks: and if you take an overnight coach/sleeper train that arrive first thing on Monday morning and leaves last thing on Friday/Saturday evening, you save another 2 nights of accomadation
[08:06] <ivoks> hm... train...
[08:07] <ivoks> i didn't think of that :)
[08:08] <sladen> ivoks: where would you be travelling from?
[08:09] <ivoks> Zagreb, Croatia
[08:10] <sladen> ivoks: there used to be a direct sleeper from Budapest to Brussels, but that got pulled Christmas two years ago
[08:11] <ivoks> i'll take the plane
[08:11] <sladen> ivoks: http://www.seat61.com/Slovenia.htm , work backwards and miss out the London->Paris section
[08:12] <sladen> ivoks: probably worth getting across the border to Budapest and then using a cheap-airline
[08:12] <ivoks> i have germanwings here
[08:12] <ivoks> from zagreb to paris via stuttgart
[08:13] <ivoks> budapest isn't that near :)
[08:13] <ivoks> vienna is closer
[08:13] <sladen> ivoks: check whether it's Orly or CDG, otherwise you'll end up on the wrong side of Paris
[08:13] <sladen> ivoks: oooh.
[08:14] <ivoks> it's CDG
[08:15] <sladen> ivoks: I didn't know German Wings were now down there;  trains in Eastern Europe are much cheaper than Western europe so it might have been [financially]  worth doing a section on Train followed by a plane
[08:17] <ivoks> i'll figure out something
[08:19] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm going to have to learn some French. I was going for German and then they switched cities ;-)
[08:19] <ivoks> heh, there are more lines from Zagreb then from Paris or London with German Wings :)
[08:21] <olafura> Is galago going in to dapper
[08:22] <siretart> olafura: we are in deep freeze mode now
[08:23] <olafura> It seems strange to have libgalago and not galago-daemon, which makes the lib useless
[08:23] <ivoks> heh... less than 180 euros from zagreb to paris and back with german wings
[08:23] <sladen> ivoks: FlyNiki/Air Berlin apparently fly  Schwechat -> CDG
[08:24] <sladen> bargin, take the german wings;  that's even cheaper
[08:25] <LaserJock> olafura: you might check wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates which is a list of apps people want packaged
[08:25] <ivoks> sladen: yes, it is...
[08:26] <ivoks> sladen: with niki it's 254
[08:26] <olafura> LaserJock: I already checked it and revu
[08:26] <LaserJock> olafura: hmm, I see that debian has a package for galago-daemon
[08:28] <olafura> LaserJock: It looks to me like nobody has complained before and that's why it's not in. Even the galago project built packages for ubuntu
[08:28] <ivoks> sladen: lol, taxes are 100 on that 180 :)
[08:29] <ivoks> train looks so nice now :)
[08:29] <LaserJock> olafura: we would have to break our Feature Freeze to get it in, but if libgalago is really usless without it it might be worthwhile
[08:29] <LaserJock> ivoks: really? that is insane
[08:30] <ivoks> LaserJock: right... funny... on price of 18, taxes are 33, and on price of 100, taxes are 18
[08:30] <ivoks> LaserJock: so, i'm giving up on plane
[08:32] <LaserJock> unfortunately the train doesn't run under the Atlantic from the US to France ;-)
[08:32] <bddebian> LaserJock: Hey, what do you mean I steal your karma??
[08:33] <LaserJock> bddebian: I get you to fix all the bugs, they don't give slave driver karma ;-)
[08:34] <ivoks> if i don't get it to paris
[08:35] <ivoks> please, mention that we are getting lots of spam on @ubuntu.com addresses :)
[08:36] <kapputu> I was told to come here if I wanted to contribute
[08:37] <kapputu> I want to start looking at source code
[08:37] <kapputu> C or Python
[08:37] <LaserJock> kapputu: cool
[08:37] <crimsun> LaserJock: / olafura: if it's useless, I'd rather see the libs ripped out of universe for Dapper and NEWed for Edgy
[08:37] <bddebian> LaserJock: So you are saying I try to help you and you diss me eh?? :-)
[08:37] <kapputu> I code for a living
[08:38] <kapputu> I just need someone to get me off my lazy bum
[08:38] <ivoks> :)
[08:38] <kapputu> I need to be assigned some tasks
[08:38] <LaserJock> bddebian: hehe, well dieties need to be put in their place every once in a while
[08:38] <kapputu> and be pestered for results initially
[08:38] <crimsun> kapputu: like squashing bugs? We have 10k of them.
[08:38] <kapputu> crimsun: sur
[08:38] <kapputu> sure
[08:38] <kapputu> I love that
[08:38] <crimsun> /join #ubuntu-bugs
[08:38] <bddebian> kapputu: launchpad.net  Pick some bugs and get to it :-)
[08:39] <bddebian> kapputu: Or here are some real kickers:: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/BugsForExtraPoints
[08:39] <kapputu> how do I find help understanding the code?
[08:39] <kapputu> come here?
[08:40] <bddebian> You said you code for a living?? :-)
[08:40] <kapputu> yes
[08:40] <kapputu> Perl
[08:40] <kapputu> I'm a pretty good programmer but I'm lazy
[08:40] <kapputu> extremely lazy
[08:40] <ivoks> kapputu: time to learn python :)
[08:40] <kapputu> ivoks: yeah I've been doing that
[08:40] <kbrooks> I want to get an application pacaged
[08:40] <kapputu> but without looking at code it's difficult
[08:40] <kbrooks> EasyUbuntu
[08:41] <bddebian> kapputu: Great, well I'm a lousy programmer but not lazy :-)
[08:41] <kapputu> there is no such thing as a lousy programmer
[08:41] <LaserJock> kbrooks: have you talked to robotgeek about that?
[08:41] <kapputu> with enough effort anyone can be a good programmer
[08:41] <kbrooks> LaserJock: he's away, at the moment
[08:41] <bddebian> Nah, I'm kinda braindamaged
[08:41] <kbrooks> we will be announcing EasyUbuntu 3 today, but before we do that I want to get a .deb out
[08:42] <kbrooks> so that people don't have to use the terminal "just" to download EasyUbuntu
[08:42] <LaserJock> kbrooks: hmm, well that isn't exactly giving much notice ;-)
[08:43] <kbrooks> so... is there a tiny package omewhere with a .py file that i can replace with EasyUbuntu and build and get it working
[08:43] <ivoks> kapputu: bddebian is local pesimist :)
[08:44] <bddebian> s/pessimist/realist/
[08:44] <ivoks> "no one likes me" "i'm lousy"
[08:44] <ivoks> :)
[08:44] <bddebian> ivoks: I didn't say no one likes me, I said the main folks don't :-)
[08:45] <bddebian> I thought LaserJock liked me for fixing all his bugs but apparently I was wrong there too ;-P
[08:46] <bddebian> :-)
[08:46] <kapputu> a bunch of gay folks
[08:46] <kapputu> gay as in joyous :-P
[08:47] <ivoks> kapputu: we even have hug days
[08:47] <bddebian> LaserJock: BTW, it looks like xcircuit built on all archs.  Have you tried it yet?
[08:47] <bddebian> Which reminds me, anyone have a PPC handy?
[08:47] <crimsun> kbrooks: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[08:47] <LaserJock> bddebian: no, I haven't had a chance to get on the ubuntu box yet with the inlaws here ;-)
[08:48] <bddebian> gah
[08:51] <olafura> crimson: LaserJock: It also seems to be useless withought gaim-galago
[08:51] <crimsun> olafura: ok, then I propose we remove the libs from Dapper.
[08:52] <crimsun> since upstream already packages for Ubuntu, it's not a problem for Dapper.
[08:52] <crimsun> in Edgy, we can reNEW them
[08:52] <olafura> Then we can also have my tomboy-plugins
[08:53] <LaserJock> crimsun: hmm, so I guess if we left the libs then that could cause problems with the upstream Dapper packages?
[08:54] <crimsun> LaserJock: it would take more effort to review and NEW the missing ones, and yes, not being able to sync the libs with whatever upstream has because Dapper would have frozen, would be problematic
[08:54] <crimsun> we're two weeks from release, so we really can't afford either
[08:55] <LaserJock> hmm, makes sense
[10:12] <phanatic> hi people
[10:13] <crimsun> hullo.
[10:15] <bddebian> Heya phanatic
[10:15] <phanatic> hey bddebian, thanks for the uploads :)
[10:16] <bddebian> phanatic: NP, thanks for the work! :-)
[10:47] <kbrooks> bddebian: can you help me out?
[10:47] <kbrooks> bddebian: how do i package a python application?
[10:48] <kbrooks> bddebian: are yo online?
[10:49] <bddebian> sorry, was away
[10:50] <bddebian> To be honest, I don't know.  Try pulling something like psyco
[10:53] <crimsun> kbrooks: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2502851
[10:55] <kbrooks> okat
[10:55] <kbrooks> crimsun: thanks
[11:21] <hub> is there a cmake 2.4.1 for Debian or shall I upload on REVU an updated version?
[11:21] <hub> there is a 2.3.4
[11:24] <hub> will upload then
[11:24] <hub> so I can start trying out KDE4
[11:35] <kbrooks> crimsun: so  i'm creating a package for easyubuntu, and dh_make asks me a question
[11:35] <kbrooks> crimsun: "Type of package: single binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module or cdbs?"
[11:36] <kbrooks> crimsun: cdbs is a option. shall i use that?
[11:37] <kbrooks> crimsun: are you there?
[11:37] <crimsun> kbrooks: please, use cdbs and python-distutils instead
[11:38] <crimsun> kbrooks: there's a section in the packaging guide on cdbs, and I gave you a pointer to the python section of cdbs
[11:38] <crimsun> kbrooks: they will simplify the process
[11:38] <kbrooks> crimsun: yup. but i want to create a package
[11:38] <crimsun> ...which is what cdbs does.
[11:38] <kbrooks> crimsun: by itself?
[11:39] <crimsun> yes.
[11:39] <crimsun> you really will want to read the cdbs section in the packaging guide :)
[11:43] <kbrooks> ah
[11:43] <hub> hey raphink
[11:44] <raphink> salut hub
[11:44] <hub> raphink: to bad, we missed each other. I was in Mainz on Sunday
[11:44] <raphink> oh really?
[11:44] <raphink> couldn't you come to the LT ?
[11:44] <hub> Desktop Architect Meeting
[11:44] <hub> LT did finish Saturday, right?
[11:44] <raphink> yes
[11:44] <kbrooks> crimsun: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-cdbs.html < does NOT tell me how to use cdbs to *make* a package. :-)
[11:44] <raphink> we left on sunday morning from wiesbaden
[11:44] <hub> raphink: so I couldn't
[11:45] <hub> raphink: I landed Sunday morning in FRA
[11:45] <raphink> ok
[11:45] <hub> then S-Bahn to Mainz Hbf
[11:45] <raphink> ok
[11:46] <crimsun> kbrooks: yes it does.
[11:46] <kbrooks> crimsun: why don't I see it?
[11:46] <crimsun> kbrooks: because you didn't read the packaging guide?
[11:47] <hub> raphink: my boss offered me to move the flight to arrive sooner to go to LT
[11:47] <raphink> you refused ?
[11:47] <hub> raphink: but I couldn't: I had to move house first
[11:47] <raphink> ah ok
[11:47] <raphink> :)
[11:47] <hub> well the last move trip ended at 12:00PM with a flight at 3:00PM
[11:47] <hub> could have been shorter :-)
[11:47] <crimsun> kbrooks: scroll to the bottom of http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html and read "Building the Source Package"
[11:48] <crimsun> kbrooks: the instructions there are valid for _all_ source packages regardless of what method is used (cdbs, quilt, dh_make, yadda yadda)
[11:49] <kbrooks> crimsun: why? :-)
[11:49] <crimsun> kbrooks: why what?
[11:50] <sladen> kbrooks: cdbs is *UTTERLY* lacking in documentation.  If you fancy fighting it for long enough to write a howto, I think it would be appreciated my many many people
[11:50] <kbrooks> crimsun: why would the instructions be valid for all source packages? arent the methods different?
[11:51] <Laser_away> sladen: edgy packaging guide will have a much better CDBS section
[11:51] <kbrooks> sladen: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
[11:51] <kbrooks> seen this?
[11:51] <crimsun> kbrooks: debuild is valid for everything. It is orthogonal to cdbs, dh_make, etc.
[11:52] <kbrooks> ah
[11:52] <kbrooks> ok
[11:53] <raphink> sladen: I made a small chapter on cdbs in the packaging guide
[11:56] <sladen> raphink: fantastic
[11:56] <raphink> well it's not much sladen
[11:57] <raphink> sladen: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-cdbs.html
[11:58] <raphink> sladen: we plan to extend the packaging guide in the next versions and make it more complete on these things
[11:59] <kbrooks> crimsun: O.K., in  control file :-)