[12:11] <bddebian> infinity: Still here?
[12:12] <bddebian> ANyone know what bpftopcf was/is?
[12:14] <crimsun> is that a typo for bdftopcf?
[12:15] <infinity> bddebian: It's an X font converter to convert from, oddly enough, bdf format to pcf format.
[12:15] <bddebian> Sorry, I meant bdftopcf
[12:16] <bddebian> Ah, it's it's own package now.. Hmm
[12:17] <infinity> "it's its"
[12:18] <bddebian> Whatever :-)

[12:20] <bddebian> Hah, take that you fscking bug!
[12:20] <bddebian> Thx gents
[12:35] <tepsipakki> shouldn't "ubuntu members" get a @ubuntu.com address?
[12:36] <pygi> tepsipakki, this is not channel for this
[12:36] <tepsipakki> oh?
[12:36] <tepsipakki> which one is?
[12:37] <mdke> well, there isn't one
[12:37] <mdke> tepsipakki: they do get one
[12:38] <tepsipakki> mdke: so, where do I get mine?-)
[12:38] <mdke> tepsipakki: it is tepsipakki@ubuntu.com
[12:38] <tepsipakki> hmm
[12:39] <tepsipakki> ok, that looks way cool ;)
[12:39] <tepsipakki> if it works
[12:40] <mdke> bddebian: sure?
[12:40] <bddebian> Yep
[12:40] <mdke> bddebian: so you didn't get that mail I just sent you?
[12:40] <tepsipakki> mdke: ok, works ;)
[12:41] <tepsipakki> my sieve-receipts suck
[12:41] <bddebian> mdke: Hey, who fixed that?
[12:41] <mdke> bddebian: magic elmo 
[12:41] <bddebian> Coolio, he told me he wasn't going to do it
[12:42] <mdke> although to be fair, if it was broken a year ago, it's likely to have been fixed quite a long time ago
[12:42] <tepsipakki> is the irc-nickname only address that works?
[12:42] <bddebian> I was getting bounces like 2 weeks ago
[12:42] <infinity> I assume it's the LP username that is used to map.
[12:42] <infinity> But I could be wrong.
[12:43] <tepsipakki> ok, my bad then
[12:43] <mdke> yeah, it's on LP username
[12:43] <mdke> and it goes to your preferred LP email address
[12:43] <mdke> so *don't* set that to your ubuntu address
[12:43] <tepsipakki> (_why_ did I standardize on this silly nick..)
[12:43] <tepsipakki> ;)
[12:44] <mdke> tepsipakki: if you change your LP username, it should work after that, although I dunno how long it will take to sync up
[12:44] <tepsipakki> ok, I'll see
[12:44] <infinity> timo.aaltonen may work as well, I'm not sure if elmo did full name mapping automagically though.
[12:44] <mdke> I don't think so
[12:44] <mdke> that's just for you guys
[12:45] <infinity> Yeah, we're full name by default, short nick is optional.
[12:45] <infinity> Guess that somewhat avoids namespace clashes to do you guys the opposite.
[12:48] <bddebian> tepsipakki: How do you think I feel about doing Ubuntu work with a bddebian nick??  Hell I have have a domain name with it :-(
[12:48] <bddebian> elmo: Thanks
[12:48] <_ion> :-)
[12:49] <infinity> bddebian: Ubuntu's still Debian under the hood.  No shame in advertising that.
[12:49] <tepsipakki> anyway, I thought it would need some special trickery to get the address, but now it seems so simple
[12:49] <bddebian> I know that but it's still a stupid nick :-)
[12:49] <bddebian> It just stuck
[12:49] <infinity> bdfreese would work just as well.
[12:50] <infinity> No one's stopping you from changing it. :)
[12:50] <bddebian> I'm lazy :-)
[12:50] <tepsipakki> I'd just set 'tja'
[12:50] <tepsipakki> maybe..
[12:51] <mdke> heh
[12:51] <tepsipakki> 'tja' is like 'hmmmm' in german
[12:51] <tepsipakki> or was it swedish
[12:53] <tepsipakki> offtopic anyway..
[01:01] <bddebian> How did my .changes get rejected but .dsc and .diff.tar.gz were accepted?  Did I F something up?
[01:03] <tepsipakki> bddebian: your nick is just fine ;)
[01:04] <tepsipakki> bddebian: and your domain..
[01:10] <mdke> mako: not around are you by any chance?
[01:11] <mdke> mako: wanted to chase up on Listiquette. Lemme know when you have a moment
[02:15] <lifeless> I have a replaces: question. If I have a package foo_1-1_i386, then decide to move the arch generic stuff out into foo-doc_1-2_all, I use replaces: foo to tell dpkg to transfer ownership of the files.. and upload foo_1-2_i386 without the doc files
[02:15] <lifeless> what happens if a user installs foo-doc_1-2_all and then tries to install foo_1-1_i386 ?
[02:16] <tseng> dpkg will allow that
[02:16] <tseng> but apt-get upgrade will go back to -2
[02:16] <tseng> dist-upgrade
[02:16] <lifeless> would it not error ?  foo-doc_1-2_all and foo_1-1_i386 have the same files
[02:16] <tseng> oh sorry I didnt read completely
[02:16] <tseng> only the second line
[02:18] <lifeless> heh
[08:10] <imbrandon> someone got a sec to help me figure out where to look to track down this bug, i can reporduce the bug like clockwork but i have no idea WHY its doing it or what logs / messages to look in to help someon fix it
[08:10] <imbrandon> hell not even sure what to report it under in launchpad.net
[08:11] <imbrandon> i dunno what to call it but if you install ( dont even have to use it ) smbfs , hald take a LONG time to start when booting ( like 2 or 3 minutes ) [ this is on upto date dapper , clean fresh install , install smbfs hangs on boot , uninstall it everything is smooth ] 
[08:12] <imbrandon> not sure what hal ( hardware abstraction layer ) has to do with smbfs and i dont knokw where to look in the logs to be more helpfull but someone could tell me i would be happy to ( the reason i say hal is becouse thats what message it hangs on while booting for like 2 or 3 minutes )
[08:13] <imbrandon> * message on usplash 
[08:26] <neuralis> imbrandon: you've confirmed that this goes away when you uninstall smbfs?
[08:45] <kgoetz> sivang: ping?
[09:39] <metatag> !seen sabdfl
[09:40] <kgoetz> metatag: why do you want sabdfl?
[09:40] <metatag> kgoetz : nothing important just to thank him :) 
[09:40] <kgoetz> metatag: :) 
[09:41] <kgoetz> mmm. done that ... once :)
[09:41] <metatag> kgoetz : really?
[09:41] <kgoetz> metatag: i got to talk to him at lca2k6
[09:42] <metatag> kgoetz : oh kewl,, he's friendly?
[09:43] <kgoetz> yeh
[10:36] <sivang> kgoetz: pong
[10:36] <metatag> sivang : ping ?
[10:38] <sivang> morning sundayers :)
[10:38] <sivang> metatag: pong
[10:38] <metatag> sivang : ping
[10:39] <sivang> metatag: erm, I already said I'm there. Anything you wanted?
[10:40] <metatag> sivang : ohh pong means you are here .. kewl stuff
[10:42] <sivang> hey kgoetz , how's it going?
[10:43] <metatag> kgoetz : ping
[11:20] <\sh> moins
[11:26] <sivang> moin moin \sh :-)
[11:36] <kgoetz> sivang: pong (sorry, was away)
[11:36] <sivang> kgoetz: np
[11:37] <kgoetz> I'm trying to remember why i pinged you :$
[11:37] <kgoetz> it was to do with HUB somehow
[11:39] <sivang> kgoetz: well, take your time :)
[11:40] <kgoetz> ta ;)
[11:40] <kgoetz> hi pitti
[11:52] <Kamion> lifeless: nowadays, dpkg checks replaces in both directions, so when you install foo it'll notice that the installed foo-doc replaces it and will suppress file overwrite errors.
[11:52] <lifeless> Kamion: sweet
[11:52] <lifeless> Kamion: so I can ignore that class of bug ?
[11:52] <lifeless> or is it useful to report anyway ?
[11:53] <Kamion> what bug?
[11:53] <Kamion> if foo-doc replaces foo, that discharges its obligation
[11:54] <Kamion> lifeless: hmm, I sort of see where you're coming from, but I wouldn't start by describing it as a bug :)
[11:54] <Kamion> lifeless: if the current version of foo in the archive no longer contains those files, all is well, there is no bug, be happy
[11:54] <lifeless> Kamion: latent problem that can occur on users machines
[11:54] <Kamion> lifeless: no latent problem exists
[11:55] <lifeless> Kamion: hmm, the thing is that foo_1.1 might be published in dapper
[11:55] <Kamion> lifeless: if the current version of foo in the archive still contains those files, then that's sort of a bug, because either they should be removed or foo and foo-doc should conflict
[11:55] <lifeless> and the better 1.2 in edgy
[11:55] <Coyctecm> is vim 7 coming for dapper?
[11:55] <Kamion> lifeless: but it's best not to be too trigger-happy about that; it might be about to be uploaded
[11:56] <Kamion> lifeless: clearly you need to keep track of what's in what release
[11:56] <lifeless> Kamion: sure, this is just analysis infrastructure
[11:56] <_ion> coyctecm: No, but it's available from my repo at http://hassers.fi/ubuntu/
[11:56] <Coyctecm> _ion: great, thanks :)
[11:56] <lifeless> Kamion: the question of what to do with the output will need tuning. I'm inclined to describe more issues rather than less, because its easier to filter such things rather than invent them.
[11:57] <Kamion> lifeless: you have to be very careful what you report, because people *will* mindlessly act on your output without understanding the issues
[11:57] <lifeless> Kamion: but I'm happy in this case to go 'dpkg will do the right thing', so no problem.
[11:57] <Kamion> so I think it's actually quite important to describe exactly the right set of issues :)
[11:58] <Kamion> adding replaces/conflicts can cause problems; it isn't harmless
[11:58] <lifeless> Kamion: good point. So, I'll start with as much info as possible in the system, and no output. Then start adding output where it is a clear case that its right
[11:58] <Coyctecm> _ion: too bad it's x86. Well I'll make amd64 package :)
[11:59] <Kamion> lifeless: yeah, having it all recorded where we can go and look it up would be fantastic, and then bug reporting can be built gradually on top of that
[11:59] <pitti> hi kgoetz 
[11:59] <kgoetz> hi
[12:00] <lifeless> Kamion: yup
[12:00] <lifeless> Kamion: so back to that point, is that case a useful one to have recorded-but-not-output ?
[12:00] <lifeless> Kamion: do you know of a python interpreter for the conflicts/replaces etc language ?
[12:01] <lifeless> Kamion: are there documents somewhere about the problems adding replaces and conflicts can cause ?
[12:14] <Kamion> lifeless: since dpkg will (now) never display an error in that case, I'm not sure it's useful to record, but I haven't thought about it much
[12:15] <Kamion> lifeless: not offhand
[12:15] <lifeless> k
[12:16] <Kamion> lifeless: I don't know if it's documented, but off the top of my head (a) you might create conflicts/pre-depends loops which the package manager can't resolve (b) adding conflicts vastly complicates upgrades because in some cases you have to temporarily remove packages from the system
[12:16] <Kamion> lifeless: (c) adding replaces suppresses error handling and therefore shouldn't be done unnecessarily because it might hide errors
[12:16] <Kamion> (that indicate real problems as opposed to just a file moving)
[12:17] <Kamion> Riddell: Thanks, I've merged your ubiquity branch. Could you add annotations for the bugs you've closed? It looks like there should be a few ...
[12:18] <lifeless> Kamion: ok. So having something that checks for such loops would be useful as a post-process for this (a). (b) sounds hairy :(. And for (c) - is using replaces when splitting a packae into two usual ?
[12:20] <Burgundavia_> Kamion, do you have any idea on when better searching is going to land in Malone? I just filed a bug you marked as dup because I didn't the bleedin dup
[12:21] <Kamion> lifeless: (b) is why conflicts are bad and hopefully eventually many of their uses will be replaced by Breaks
[12:21] <Kamion> lifeless: (c) yes
[12:21] <Kamion> Burgundavia_: no, not offhand - in general I don't mind duplicates though, what I do mind is people wrongly marking duplicates ;-)
[12:21] <lifeless> hmm, I dont see breaks in policy ?
[12:21] <Kamion> lifeless: it's not, it doesn't exist yet
[12:21] <lifeless> ah
[12:22] <Kamion> it's been designed but never yet implemented; breaks is to conflicts as depends is to pre-depends
[12:22] <lifeless> so the core of what I'm doing is detecting concurrently installable packages with the same filename
[12:22] <lifeless> so it should be usable directly for breaks too
[12:23] <Kamion> Burgundavia_: (in fact, while I appreciate the help, I'd generally prefer that people didn't try to mark ubiquity crashes as duplicates at all - I can handle the load and it takes me longer to try to make sure that people have done it right than to just do it myself)
[12:23] <Kamion> lifeless: breaks would generally be used for higher-level problems than file conflicts
[12:23] <Kamion> that aren't automatically detectable in general
[12:24] <lifeless> Kamion: sure. I can see that
[12:24] <Kamion> nowadays, replaces should be used for "file moved", and conflicts should be used for "these two packages have the same file"; there should be no need for additional fields to express those
[12:24] <Burgundavia_> Kamion, ok, no problem
[12:28] <nomed> Kamion, will ubiquity be themeable for dapper release?
[12:28] <Kamion> nomed: not beyond gtk theming, no
[12:29] <Kamion> I have massively more urgent things to worry about than that :)
[12:29] <nomed> Kamion, yep i see :)
[12:29] <nomed> i just wanted to know if xubuntu should start thinking on an ubiquity theme .. in this case i guess it'll be edgy stuff
[12:29] <nomed> thanks
[12:29] <ivoks> pitti: we have a patch for g-c-m :)
[12:30] <Kamion> nomed: why would you want to theme ubiquity anyway?
[12:30] <nomed> Kaloz, xubuntu header for ex ..
[12:30] <Kamion> nomed: by design it doesn't mention Ubuntu anywhere
[12:30] <nomed> with xubuntu logo and colors 
[12:30] <Kamion> so I don't see why it would need to be themed to mention Xubuntu
[12:30] <nomed> Kamion, yes 
[12:31] <nomed> Kamion, because i see for ex kubuntu uses an header
[12:31] <Kamion> yes, I think that's a bug :P
[12:31] <nomed> with kubuntu logo
[12:31] <nomed> ehehe
[12:31] <ogra> Kamion++
[12:31] <ogra> :)
[12:32] <Kamion> it makes it harder for others to take the installer and use it for rebranded versions of the distribution
[12:32] <nomed> and when i checked guadalinex source i've seen is easly themeable
[12:32] <Kamion> Riddell: ^--
[12:32] <nomed> but i do not know how much guadalinex code is still there
[12:32] <Kamion> it's better to remove the need for theming
[12:32] <Kamion> imo
[12:33] <Kamion> there is some guadalinex code still there, but there's not a lot of point checking guadalinex source to try to figure out what ubiquity is like nowadays - it will only lead to confusion
[12:34] <nomed> Kamion, i checked Guadalinex source before then ubiquity ..
[12:34] <nomed> not now :)
[12:34] <Kamion> note that its themeability was based around the distro name according to lsb-release output
[12:34] <Kamion> and lsb-release says the same thing for Ubuntu and Xubuntu
[12:34] <nomed> yep
[12:34] <Kamion> (intentionally)
[12:36] <ogra> imho it would be nice to have a "derivative" field in there
[12:37] <Kamion> ogra: it's not possible with distros that share an archive
[12:37] <ogra> Kamion, hmm, right :/
[12:38] <ogra> but some things would be a lot easier if you have a central place of distinction
[12:38] <Kamion> fork the archive, you can do what you like (and cope with behaviour changes in applications that suddenly think you're Slackware, etc.)
[12:38] <Kamion> for anything else, I think BrandingForDerivatives is really the best way to go
[12:39] <Kamion> (i.e. neutralisation)
[12:50] <sivang> has anyone seen jbailey ?
[12:50] <\sh> last time at the ubuntu booth at linuxtag, why? ;)
[12:52] <sivang> \sh: hehe, I meant, on IRC :-)
[01:07] <hunger> How can I restore the behavior of / CLOSE_LESSIONS in /etc/login.defs?
[01:08] <hunger> and why was it removed?
[01:17] <Tonio_> hi
[01:18] <sivang> can anybody think what Mario Meyer could have wanted from me?
[01:18] <sivang> He looked for me during the weekend and I was away..
[01:18] <mdke> sivang: you'll have to mail him and see
[01:19] <sivang> mdke: I guess, so, youy have any idea what his time zone?
[01:19] <mdke> brazil
[01:20] <mdke> although hopefully his email gets delivered 24 hours
[01:25] <sivang> mdke: you happeb to have his email address handy?
[01:26] <mdke> sivang: launchpad does
[01:26] <sivang> mdke: sure, /me searches
[01:27] <sivang> mdke: are you going to paris?
[01:28] <mdke> sivang: no, i don't think so
[02:42] <phanatic> Kamion: ping
[03:16] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:16] <pygi> hey bddebian 
[03:16] <bddebian> Hello pygi
[03:53] <sivang> glatzor: ping
[04:00] <glatzor> pong sivang
[04:02] <sivang> glatzor: I LOVE your new design
[04:02] <sivang> glatzor: I want to move forward with it :)
[04:02] <glatzor> sivang: I added some details yesterday. thanks.
[04:02] <sivang> glatzor: it would make life easier for users, and eventually, if you check latest bug list for hubackup, you'd see it could cater for features required from smooth operations by some of the bug repots
[04:03] <sivang> glatzor: ah! I didn't see them yet, I'll have top check this evening
[04:03] <sivang> glatzor: btw, are you going to paris?
[04:03] <glatzor> sivang: that is an open question :)
[04:03] <glatzor> I want to apply fo ubuntu membership on tuesday
[04:04] <sivang> glatzor: I see , I did not get any emails about sponserships, so I guess this is left for us to co-ordiante, a HUB GUI sprint :-)
[04:04] <sivang> or we'd just resort to ekiga :p
[04:04] <glatzor> you life next to or in paris?
[04:04] <sivang> glatzor: not at all, I am in .IL 
[04:05] <glatzor> right. :)
[04:05] <glatzor> that is quite a distance :)
[04:06] <sivang> indeed :)
[04:06] <sivang> I'm out of the continent :p
[04:06] <glatzor> sivang: I am on vacations in June for four weeks. And normally it rains in Germany at this time :/
[04:07] <sivang> glatzor: still raining? I would hope it gets better and warmer 
[04:07] <glatzor> so quite much time and space for open source stuff.
[04:07] <sivang> Indeed.
[04:07] <glatzor> we had two nice weeks but now it is raining for days
[04:07] <sivang> I might pay a visit to .de during this time, I'll keep you posted if I can come and visit.
[04:08] <sivang> (planning to be an EU during summer or so)
[04:08] <glatzor> pay a visit to munich! it is worth a trip
[04:08] <glatzor> israel takes part in the football wm?
[04:10] <sivang> ofcourse!, but also I must visit ogra in the Eifels (or at least this is how I think this region is called)
[04:10] <sivang> glatzor: I think so, yes :)
[04:11] <sivang> this is the linke right? - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup/UI
[04:11] <glatzor> right
[04:12] <glatzor> i am unsure about the large file stuff. perhaps this requires a further option in the profile
[04:12] <glatzor> and I don't have got any idea yet how to handle patterns
[04:13] <glatzor> but I think that I have to get familiar with dao before
[04:13] <sivang> dao ?
[04:13] <glatzor> dar :)
[04:13] <sivang> ah :)
[04:14] <sivang> way way cool program, though there are some limitations through the cmd line basic program, that's why I will be exploring writing python bindings to make stuff like files exclusion and inclusion more roust that what is currently used
[04:15] <sivang> if you check it, you'll see that every file excluded is passed like this to the dar progam:
[04:15] <glatzor> I asked mvo and it is possible to add hal hooks for backup cdroms/dvds. so that the restore tool would be started automatically.
[04:15] <sivang> -X "*.mp3"
[04:15] <sivang> which causes problems, when you have *.MP3 file on your hard drive
[04:15] <sivang> (case sensitivity results in it being backed up)
[04:15] <glatzor> but he wasn't very pleased with this approach. I have to get into details with mvo.
[04:16] <sivang> glatzor: you think we should provide hal hooks for that? I would be happy if we could  just detect hardware devices and medium plug ins/outs as a start.
[04:16] <sivang> glatzor: currently I only know what was availabel at program startup
[04:16] <sivang> which is bad
[04:17] <glatzor> michael did this for the dapper update cdroms
[04:18] <sivang> glatzor: anyways, your new design would allow stuff like https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hubackup/+bug/43926
[04:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43926 in hubackup "Allow Backup To Custom Path" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
[04:18] <sivang> glatzor: to be easily integrated inside
[04:18] <sivang> glatzor: which I did not know how to allow in the old GUI :-)
[04:19] <sivang> glatzor: this also https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hubackup/+bug/43927 , could be addressed using the modifiable exclusion / inclusion templates.
[04:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43927 in hubackup "Backing up other folders besides home" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
[04:20] <sivang> and this , just as well
[04:20] <sivang> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hubackup/+bug/43928
[04:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43928 in hubackup "To Improve Include/exclude media" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
[04:20] <glatzor> sivang: I subscribed myself to the hubackup bugs to get a better picture of the users' needs
[04:21] <sivang> glatzor: cool, so you already got all those old a dn new reports? seen malone #44341 ?
[04:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44341 in hubackup "User interface doesn't follow the GNOME HIG" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44341
[04:22] <sivang> fd
[04:23] <sivang> problem is, people file bugs both on the product and the source pkg, I need to track them both :)
[04:23] <sivang> https://launchpad.net/products/hubackup/+bugs
[04:23] <hunger> How can I restore the behavior of / CLOSE_LESSIONS in /etc/login.defs? Why was that removed anyway?
[04:28] <glatzor> i cannot subcripe to the prduct bugs
[04:29] <sivang> glatzor: hmm, I wonder if I can
[04:29] <dsas> glatzor: That's the same for any product I think. Not sure whether or not it's a LP bug.
[04:30] <glatzor> sivang: perhaps you as owner can add further bug contacts
[04:30] <sivang> glatzor: let me try
[04:30] <sivang> glatzor: what you're launchpad name so I can add you?
[04:30] <glatzor> glatzor :)
[04:30] <sivang> ah, cool :)
[04:30] <sivang> what does it mean in germen btw?
[04:31] <dsas> is the hubackup in the repos supposed to be in a working order?
[04:32] <dsas> oh sorry, seems it's not a hubackup specific problem I'm having :)
[04:32] <glatzor> "glatze" is a head without any hair like mine one :) and the ending -or has no meaning.
[04:33] <glatzor> -or makes it sound more dangerous :)
[04:37] <glatzor> sivang: so pumped up my karma :)
[04:39] <sivang> dsas: what's the issue?
[04:39] <sivang> glatzor: hehe
[04:40] <sivang> glatzor: cannot add someone else as a bug contact as it seems in the product
[04:40] <sivang> argh
[04:41] <zyga> hey guys
[04:41] <bddebian> Hello zyga
[04:42] <kgoetz> hi
[04:50] <glatzor> hi zyga
[04:51] <glatzor> sivang: :/
[04:51] <zyga> hey
[04:51] <zyga> why the sad face?
[04:52] <glatzor> zyga: i would like to subscripe myself to the bugs of sivang's product :/
[04:52] <glatzor> but we cannot find such an option in launchpad
[04:52] <kgoetz> glatzor: all of them?
[04:53] <glatzor> zyga: and i had a bycile accident last night
[04:54] <glatzor> kgoetz: I want to get notified of all bug changes of hubackup 
[04:54] <kgoetz> glatzor your bug contact, sint that all you need?
[04:54] <glatzor> yes, it hurts :/
[04:54] <kgoetz> glatzor: i don't know much medicalish, but what i do know is that's not pretty :(
[04:54] <glatzor> kgoetz: but we are actually two bug contacts :)
[04:55] <glatzor> sivang: we could create a team
[04:55] <glatzor> backupers
[04:55] <kgoetz> glatzor: i was looking for that option as well (contact)
[04:56] <sivang> glatzor: oh my god ! is anybody taking care of you injuierd like this?
[04:57] <sivang> yes, I could crate a team like hub-devels or something
[04:57] <sivang> glatzor: I'm also interested to see how we can make this a complete backup solution for ubuntu, so when you'll have a set of HUB's cds togther with an Ubuiguity CD, you could restore your system no fuss.
[04:58] <kgoetz> sivang: cool idea
[05:00] <glatzor> sivang: you are already part of the new team :)
[05:00] <glatzor> kgoetz: zyga: want to join, too?
[05:00] <zyga> glatzor: yes
[05:00] <kgoetz> yes please glatzor
[05:03] <sivang> glatzor: kgoetz alrady heped me alot with bug reporting and testing :)
[05:03] <sivang> kgoetz: re the team or complete backup solution ? :)
[05:03] <glatzor> sivang: you are too late: https://launchpad.net/people/backupers
[05:03] <kgoetz> sivang: both :)
[05:04] <sivang> glatzor: hehe, you're quicker then I am with LP , but I am at work, so it doesn't count :p
[05:04] <kgoetz> hehe
[05:05] <sivang> glatzor: okay, now set up the team as the bug contact for both the product and the source pkg
[05:05] <sivang> ?
[05:06] <glatzor> sivang: that is still your job. 
[05:06] <glatzor> sivang: you are the owner of hubackup
[05:06] <glatzor> hi kgoetz, you live on the other side of the planet, right?
[05:07] <sivang> glatzor, kgoetz : we'd need to make sure there is no effort duplication, or OTOH to see if there are better solution then dar to create thecomplete disaster recovery tool - if we have to record partitioninformation, might as well uise a tool that dumps , compresses and slices partitions images rather then file system level backup. but then we might loose the excludion funciontality
[05:07] <sivang> so many things to check..:)
[05:07] <kgoetz> glatzor: from the sound of it yes
[05:07] <glatzor> whoa, the new team spans the whole world :)
[05:07] <sivang> glatzor: can you please also empower me a bit on the backupers team? :)
[05:07] <sivang> glatzor: hehe
[05:08] <kgoetz> glatzor: that must be one of the fastest global spreads ever :)
[05:08] <sivang> glatzor: done. team is not the bug contact for product
[05:08] <glatzor> sivang: i think that we should concentrate on the user data. setting up a system backup is a complete differnet task
[05:09] <glatzor> sivang: you are already admin
[05:09] <sivang> glatzor: I was thinking along the lines of current scheme, as extending to backing up other stuff then /hjome is trivial in the file system level
[05:09] <glatzor> we just need an icon from lapo
[05:09] <sivang> indeed :)
[05:10] <sivang> glatzor: and we would only require something to record partitions so we would be able to recreate them in case of complete wipe out of HD
[05:10] <glatzor> sivang: someone suggested a complete system backup tool on the wiki page. one moment
[05:11] <kgoetz> sivang: fdisk -l > file ? :)
[05:11] <glatzor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MondoMindi
[05:13] <sivang> glatzor: I once exp[eriment with MondoMindi, it has TONS of dependencies
[05:13] <sivang> glatzor: but it seems nice nonetheless
[05:13] <glatzor> https://launchpad.net/products/hubackup/+bugcontact
[05:14] <sivang> glatzor: this if for the product, I alredy set it up. But what about the source pkg?
[05:14] <sivang> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/hubackup/+bugs
[05:16] <glatzor> already done
[05:17] <glatzor> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hubackup/+subscribe
[05:18] <sivang> ah, sub the team to the source pacakg bugs :)
[05:18] <sivang> cool
[05:18] <sivang> glatzor: thank you!
[05:19] <glatzor> no problem
[05:19] <sivang> now we can get rocking ;-)
[05:20] <sivang> hehe, I was just saying this. it's sunday after all in most modern countries :)
[05:21] <kgoetz> you are so far behind :P
[05:21] <kgoetz> it's been monday for nearly an hour here!
[05:27] <glatzor> sivang: do you have any contact to Aigars Mahinovs, the creator of sbackup?
[05:35] <sivang> glatzor: We discussed a bit, but when me and Ian evaluate it, it looked more then uncomplete for general consumption and had many bugs, together with very un discoverable progress indication.
[05:36] <glatzor> it seems to be stalled fro quite some monthes
[05:36] <looksaus> I have a question about express shipments of Dapper
[05:36] <sivang> glatzor: we also knew we don't want to have a re-implementation of an archive format, as this has been already implemented several times by different parties, and to a very good extent.
[05:36] <looksaus> where should I ask that?
[05:37] <glatzor> puh looksaus, no idea.
[05:37] <mdke> looksaus: you should mail the information address on the shipit page
[05:38] <looksaus> mdke, no more direct source?
[05:38] <mdke> looksaus: email is pretty direct
[05:38] <looksaus> mdke, thx
[05:39] <mdke> np
[05:40] <glatzor> sivang: I have to leave. so bye
[05:41] <sivang> glatzor: laters, see you
[06:21] <Riddell> manfred: hi
[06:29] <manfred> hi folks, I'd like to know why my smb shares don't get mounted after my latest dapper upgrades and why hald hangs on bootup as long as there are smbmounts in fstab
[06:30] <manfred> I put the mount command now in rc.local but I'm still curious
[06:30] <bddebian> manfred: Anything in the logs?
[06:31] <manfred> bddebian: hang on
[06:33] <mdke> manfred: sounds like a bug. It's quite common, have a look in the bug tracker
[06:34] <manfred> well in syslog I can't find anything helpful
[06:34] <manfred> I can only tell that on bootup when message for hald starting appears that it hangs for about a minute or so
[06:34] <manfred> then it carries on and when started the smb shares are not mounted
[06:35] <manfred> that used to work fine  before
[06:35] <mdke> manfred: please continue in the bug tracker. I'm sure you'll find a bug open on it already
[06:35] <manfred> mdke: ok
[06:40] <manfred> If you look on launchpad it rather looks like samba was still in an alpha developement state :-)
[06:40] <manfred> So no wonder I got problems
[06:44] <looksaus> manfred, smb printing is broken for the moment, but the rest should be more or less ok
[06:44] <manfred> But my problem is not described there. Anyway I was actually trying to find out whether this should be considered a bug or a new security feature of some sort
[06:45] <manfred> But your reactions let me think about filing a bug report
[06:47] <manfred> looksaus: btw, I havent got my kubuntu installation to print on any network printer at all for ages.
[06:47] <manfred> no matter what I did
[06:48] <manfred> That means I have to boot win xp to print my mails at work
[06:49] <manfred> they are sneering at me :-(
[06:50] <manfred> The laugh is always on the loser, so to say :-)
[06:55] <mdke> manfred: convert the print server to cups
[07:22] <lamont> lifeless: I only see 20 of them right now...
[07:49] <sladen> manfred: if it doens't work, please file a bug.  much more productive way to get it solved
[07:54] <Harti> #37774
[07:54] <Harti> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libsdl1.2/+bug/37774
[07:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37774 in libsdl1.2 "sound delay 0,5-1s" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[10:10] <sivang> night all
[10:11] <pygi> night sivang 
[10:12] <ProN00b> why is evolution the default email client on ubuntu, and not tunderbird, i mean the default browser is firefox and not epiphany too
[10:13] <azeem> ProN00b: your reasoning is strange, surely this decision should be done on  a case-by-case basis (and you could argue the other way round just as well)
[10:14] <ProN00b> well, i see it like this
[10:15] <ProN00b> the reason for firefox is that it is more popular and alot of windows users use it now too
[10:15] <ProN00b> then theres epiphany which is surely built on top of gnome and everyhthing so it should be perfect for a gnome desktop
[10:15] <ProN00b> now there is thunderbird which is avaiable for windows too, and alot of windows users use it
[10:16] <ProN00b> then there is that strange evolution thing which is coded on top of gnome
[10:16] <azeem> evolution is available for windows, too, AFAIK
[10:16] <ProN00b> now, why evolution and not epiphany
[10:16] <azeem> though not as readily available as thunderbird
[10:16] <mdke> azeem: this guy has flamed in here many times, don't get drawn in
[10:17] <ProN00b> yeah, you can compile most linux apps on windows
[10:17] <ProN00b> just that i haven't ever heard of evolution
[10:17] <mjg59> ProN00b: This discussion is off-topic here.
[10:18] <mdke> ProN00b: you can go to #ubuntu-offtopic to continue, if you wish
[10:18] <seb128> ProN00b: epiphany requires firefox to work, there is no point to install an extra browser
[10:18] <seb128> ProN00b: that's not true with evolution, we are not forced to install thunderbird anyway
[10:19] <seb128> ProN00b: and there is a spec for next cycle to use epiphany as default browser (it'll use xulrunner instead of firefox) but it might not be accepted ...
[10:23] <ProN00b> seb128, epiphany should depend on the mozilla libs not on firefox itself, does it ?
[10:23] <Keybuk> didn't we decide that we wanted Epiphany, and that it was _better_
[10:23] <Keybuk> but that we couldn't get away with not shipping Firefox as the default?
[10:24] <seb128> Keybuk: I don't think epiphany was better, it was lacking some feature and had some issues, it's getting much better now
[10:24] <ProN00b> and you SHOULDN'T get away with not shipping firefox as the default
[10:25] <seb128> ProN00b: the lib are not splitted atm
[10:25] <seb128> ProN00b: that's what xulrunner is, proper libs to use
[10:25] <pygi> ProN00b, stop arguing
[10:25] <seb128> ProN00b: anyway that's offtopic for that chan as said before
[10:26] <seb128> ProN00b: you are free to install an another software if you don't like the default one
[10:26] <pygi> you have no right to tell what will be shipped and what will not
[10:26] <ProN00b> seb128, you mean mozilla has its own libs, firefox has and so on ?
[10:26] <tritium> From the point of view of enterprise support, evolution works nicely with exchange servers, whereas thunderbird does not.
[10:26] <ProN00b> pygi, but i can flame in my suggestions, i mean thats what the internet is for
[10:26] <seb128> ProN00b: I don't understand your question, and no that chan is not a place to flame
[10:27] <pygi> ProN00b, you can also get banned
[10:27] <Keybuk> ProN00b: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[10:39] <mdke> seb128: hiya. Did you have a go at the epiphany homepage localisation at all?
[10:39] <seb128> mdke: hey, no, too busy for that :/
[10:39] <mdke> seb128: fair enough. maybe you can delegate it to someone :)
[10:39] <seb128> there is no "lock" on the work
[10:39] <seb128> patches are always welcome ;)
[10:40] <seb128> if any contributor wants to step he can ...
[10:40] <mdke> sure, maybe i'll file a bug and so someone tracking the bugs can see if they know how to do it
[10:41] <seb128> better to update the Desktop/TODO wiki page
[10:41] <mdke> ah, good idea
[10:41] <seb128> I doubt anybody will go read the thousands of desktop bugs we have
[10:41] <seb128> I'm asking on #ubuntu-desktop atm
[10:41] <pygi> seb128, what needs fixing if I may ask?
 ploum: made the startup page being locale Dependant
 dependant
 like file:///some/path/page-%l.html
 where %l is the locale
 and fallback to C if the page doesn't exist
[10:44] <pygi> ah
[10:45] <seb128> pygi: interest to hack on that?
[10:45] <pygi> ugh, not at this moment :-/
[10:45] <pygi> sorry
[10:45] <seb128> k
[10:45] <seb128> np
[10:45] <seb128> it was in case :)
[10:46] <pygi> :)
[10:52] <Keybuk> hmm
[10:52] <Keybuk> did anyone think to remove /var/log/* from the LiveCD image?
[11:03] <sladen> mjg59: okay, does hal need teaching about SBTN , or is that a "standard" key?
[11:03] <sladen> Keybuk: what does it contain, the lots from building the CD?
[11:06] <mjg59> sladen: That's standard
[11:08] <Keybuk> yeah, just noticed it had a complete /var/log/dpkg.log :)
[11:08] <Keybuk> which, of course, ends up on the Ubiquity installed image
[11:09] <sladen> mjg59: oooh, goodie
[11:10] <sladen> Keybuk: yer might want to file a bug report :)
[11:11] <Keybuk> *shrug* it was quite handy actually
[11:15] <_ion> keybuk: Btw, what does your quit message mean? :-)
[11:17] <Keybuk> _ion: "Enough of this crap"
[11:17] <_ion> Hehe.
[11:17] <Keybuk> ya know what I *really* want for my birthday?
[11:18] <Keybuk> An option to man(1) that says "look in either section 2 or 3, because I don't know which one it's in and I just don't want you to show me the damned unix command version"
[11:18] <_ion> Hehe, true that. :-)
[11:18] <_ion> In that situation, i usually run man -a foo and then press q when the section 1 page is shown. :-)
[11:19] <Keybuk> mdz: greetings
[11:19] <Keybuk> how's the Tequila?
[11:20] <mdz> tequilicious
[11:21] <Keybuk> you don't get jet lag to mx, do you?
[11:22] <sabdfl> you get tequila lag, though
[11:26] <tritium> mdz: you're in Mexico?  /me faces South and waves...
[11:28] <LaserJock> tritium: lol, /me faces South and waves to tritium and mdz ;-)
[11:30] <mdz> Keybuk: it's only 2 hours time difference to here
[11:30] <mdz> tritium: indeed, for DebConf
[11:30] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, figured it was something like that
[11:30] <mdz> 3.5 hour flight, easy as pie
[11:30] <mdz> very comfortable shrubbery in this country
[11:31] <coz_> sorry to bother you guys
[11:32] <coz_> th current daper udates removed the keyboard shortcut option for logout
[11:32] <coz_> what is the terminal command to bring up logout dialog UI
[11:34] <Keybuk> coz_: sadly there isn't one
[11:35] <coz_> Keybuk, none? they removed theoptio in the keyboard shortcuts so wouln'tthere also be a command for it? out of curiosity?
[11:37] <Keybuk> there's a keyboard short cut
[11:37] <Keybuk> it's the logout button on your keyboard if you have one
[11:37] <Keybuk> if not, go System -> Prefs -> Keybd Shorts and set one
[11:37] <Keybuk> it's the second one down in the list
[11:37] <coz_> Keybuk, the keyboard shortcut was rmved in he upates
[11:38] <mdz> coz_: pressing the power button should bring up that dialog
[11:38] <Keybuk> mdz: neat!
[11:38] <coz_> OK guys let me rpeat this, the current dapper updates have removed logout options in keyboards shortcuts
[11:39] <mdz> coz_: everything will be OK
[11:39] <coz_> there has to be a command becasue a panel applet button for logout existys ans rings up the UI
[11:39] <coz_> I understand I was jst curious what the terminal cammand wold be
[11:39] <coz_> mdz, not worried just curious
[11:40] <coz_>  thannks gys
[11:41] <mdz> gnome-control-center hasn't been changed since the last time I upgraded, and I can still set a shortcut
[11:41] <coz_> mdz I just did current dapper updates the keyboards shorcut menu has most definately been changed
[11:42] <coz_> mdz and the logout option has been removed
[11:43] <coz_> just t let you guys know I am not being grumpy here
[11:43] <Keybuk> no
[11:43] <Keybuk> coz_: is right
[11:43] <Keybuk> that option is actually missing from the latest update
[11:43] <coz_> I was just curious about the terminal command to bring up the UI
[11:43] <Keybuk> it's there on my laptop, but not on my desktop (which has been upgraded and restarted about an hour ago)
[11:44] <coz_> there is a logout button applet for the panel so threfore  command also
[11:44] <coz_> Since there is a panel button for it that works there must also be a terminal command for it as well
[11:45] <coz_> a short cut HAS to call on something, 
[11:46] <coz_> Keybuk, thanks for seeing the problem
[11:51] <coz_> well I will keep asking ans searching for the terminal command to call the logout dialog UI thanks for your time hope they put the keyboard shorcut back in but if not I will find the commnd thanks again guys
[11:53] <mdz> hate to disappoint, but it looks intentional
[11:53] <_ion> Wow, this _is_ cool. I didn't know the power button brings up the logout dialog.
[11:54] <mdz> Keybuk: are you reporting the bug?  I could be wrong
[11:54] <Keybuk> mdz: I'm not convinced it's a bug, given the power button displays the dialog :)
[11:55] <Keybuk> I suspect it's removed, because you can't push the power button when prompted for a keyboard accelerator :p
[11:55] <LaserJock> Keybuk: what if somebody doesn't have a power button? ;-)
[11:55] <_ion> Or ACPI support :-)
[12:00] <mdz> Keybuk: the power buttons on our laptops don't seem to trigger the dialog though