[12:02] <seb128> bug #32126
[12:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32126 in control-center "sleep shortcut belongs to gnome-power-manager" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32126
[12:03] <seb128> that has been changed with that upload
[12:03] <seb128> control-center (1:2.14.1-0ubuntu8)
[12:04] <mjg59> mdz: Ah, the preference appears to have vanished from g-p-m
[12:04] <mdz> seb128: right, log out seems different from sleep and hibernate though
[12:04] <mjg59> mdz: The power button gets passed through on wakeup
[12:05] <mjg59> So if it's bound, you get the logout dialog on resume occasionally
[12:05] <mdz> the shortcut can be disabled by default, then, but I see no reason not to allow a binding to be set if the user wants one
[12:05] <mjg59> Seems reasonable
[12:06] <seb128> mdz: right, I don't know why dholbach changed that one
[12:06] <seb128> I'll fix it
[12:12] <mdz> seb128: thank you
[12:12] <seb128> np
[12:15] <jdub> mdz: have fun in mexico :-)
[12:16] <mdke> jdub: nooooo
[12:17] <mdke> jdub: tell me you have 30 seconds to update planet for me before going jet-setting
[12:19] <mdke> rats
[12:23] <mdke> jdub is the hardest man to get hold of in the entire world
[12:24] <jcole> why are the backgrounds in dapper labeled as "warty" backgrounds?
[12:24] <jcole>  /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png
[12:24] <mdke> jcole: mine says Ubuntu Dapper Beta on it
[12:25] <jcole> sorry, s/labeled/named
[12:25] <mdke> probably because if you keep the same filename you don't have to change anything
[12:26] <jcole> mdke: lol, right
[12:26] <mdke> best file a bug if you don't like it
[12:48] <robertj> is there an easy way to dpkg-buildpackage debug?
[12:49] <robertj> I see --debug was lamented as missing in 2001 but never found it's way in apparently
[12:53] <crimsun> mdz_: ping
[12:54] <mdz_> crimsun: pong
[12:54] <crimsun> mdz_: RE: ALC861 recording: Is it currently broken in 2.6.15-22.34? There's a one-line diff between our patch_realtek.c and upstream alsa-driver 1.0.11
[12:55] <crimsun> (I'll go ahead and submit that one, but I want to check the status)
[12:55] <mdz> crimsun: I think the test was done with beta 2; has it been updated since then?
[12:56] <crimsun> hmm, beta 2? No, no updates to it since beta 2.
[12:57] <crimsun> although the missing line is pretty substantial
[12:57] <mdz> I don't have more information but could get you in touch with the person who ran the test
[12:57] <mdz> he said it was known fixed in 1.0.11
[12:58] <crimsun> sure, is there a bug report or forum post?
[01:00] <mdz> crimsun: just an email
[01:01] <crimsun> mdz: please forward it to me
[01:05] <Keybuk> madduck: the sex change didn't go so well?
[01:15] <_ion> In case anyone's interested, i packaged the cpp-omnicomplete script from vim.org: http://hassers.fi/ubuntu/dists/dapper/vim/
[01:15] <robertj> krb5-admin-server seems like it will always fail on first install because you need to run a script in one of it's deps by hand...am I missing something?
[01:16] <Keybuk> I read that as cpp-omlette
[01:16] <robertj> actually nevermind, that package actually contains krb5_newrealm...
[01:16] <robertj> so you need to install the package & run that script before the package will properly install
[01:22] <madduck> Keybuk: it's not so much the sex change, but being biella for a while was awesome!
[01:22] <Keybuk> I can imagine
[01:25] <ajmitch> morning all
[01:48] <Keybuk> is the Fedora Project wiki down for anyone else?
[01:49] <robertj> Keybuk: looks fine here
[01:49] <Keybuk> hmm
[01:49] <Keybuk> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FCNewInit
[01:49] <Keybuk> is just timing out for me
[01:49] <robertj> not for me
[01:50] <Keybuk> weird
[01:50] <HrdwrBoB> wfm
[01:50] <HrdwrBoB> was a bit slow though
[01:50] <Keybuk> hmm, google cache is doing the same
[01:50] <Keybuk> might be an image/ad issue?
[01:51] <robertj> don't see any images except for the fedora logo & a repeating background
[01:51] <Keybuk> weird
[01:51] <robertj> and the background might even be css if they are funky
[01:51] <jcole> where is the usplash image?
[01:51] <Keybuk> View Source works, just Firefox not displaying it
[01:51] <Keybuk> jcole: /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so
[01:53] <jcole>  /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-default.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), stripped
[01:54] <jcole> not opening that in gimp anytime soon, lol
[01:54] <Keybuk> indeed
[01:54] <mjg59> jcole: The modifiable image is in the source package
[01:54] <mjg59> It's saved as raw code to make it easier to display it on boot
[01:55] <Keybuk> mjg59: yeah, PNG decoders are so huge
[01:55] <Keybuk> mjg59: I was feeling a little evil yesterday, and was experimenting how much smaller the binary got if it didn't even use dlopen/dlsym
[01:55] <mjg59> Keybuk: Adding PNG decoding to usplash is effort :p
[01:55] <crazy_penguin> bye. Good night
[01:55] <mjg59> It didn't use dlopen originally - that was to make it easier for derivatives to change the artwork
[01:55] <Keybuk> ahh
[01:55] <Keybuk> I had a cunning plan :p
[01:55] <Keybuk> replacing dlopen with a DT_NEEDED on the artwork .so <g>
[01:56] <Keybuk> so the symbols are just there
[01:56] <mjg59> Bad man
[01:56] <Keybuk> your point? :p
[01:57] <jcole> mjg59: rle?
[01:57] <mjg59> jcole: Nope
[01:57] <mjg59> It's just a raw dump of what ends up in the framebuffer
[01:58] <Keybuk> which, of course, is the one true image format
[01:58] <sladen> jcole: the initramfs is compressed
[01:58] <Keybuk> robertj: EDGY!
[01:58] <robertj> Keybuk: hehe ;)
[01:58] <sladen> robertj: you can have it in, so, like, 3 weeks
[01:58] <Keybuk> I'm so changing the edgy artwork, on opening day, so something REALLY crap
[01:58] <Keybuk> like "edgy eft" written in MS Paint
[01:59] <Keybuk> just to "encourage" the artwork guys from day #1
[01:59] <sladen> Keybuk: and if you rewrite bogl not to use  PutPixel(x,y,c) for every operation, it'll be faster too
[01:59] <_ion> :-)
[01:59] <robertj> Keybuk: you should change it to "c:\" in terminal-green
[01:59] <mjg59> Keybuk: I put that in Dapper and someone reverted it :(((
[01:59] <Keybuk> sladen: I had actually thought of using a blit paint of part of the image to do the progress bar
[01:59] <Keybuk> mjg59: heh, I reckon it's the only way to encourage them
[01:59] <jcole> i have to do this magic to remaster the boot image on the debian/ubuntu install cd:
[01:59] <jcole> convert -resize 639x320 -colors 14 myorig.png mynew.png; pngtopnm mynew.png > splash.pnm; ppmtolss16 "#000000=0" "#ffffff=7" < splash.pnm > splash.rle
[02:00] <Keybuk> otherwise we'll just have the same story over again
[02:00] <sladen> Keybuk: I think it still uses PutPixel()...
[02:00] <Keybuk> just about releasing, and "oh, can you fundamentally change the artwork"
[02:00] <sladen> Keybuk: because it "has" to check the plane for each pixel
[02:00] <jcole> you guys should have done a contest thing with the artwork
[02:00] <mjg59> It might always be easier to do the progress bar the other way
[02:00] <mjg59> Draw a nice picture in the pixmap, and draw a black bar on top of it
[02:01] <sladen> jcole: yes, yes, encourge them, yes, but, yes, *for edgy*
[02:01] <Keybuk> mjg59: that's basically what I was thinking
[02:01] <Keybuk> or, if possible, just have to pixmaps
[02:01] <mjg59> Oh, except that would lead to tearing
[02:01] <Keybuk> one for the light progress bar, one for the dark
[02:01] <Keybuk> and gradually replace one with the other
[02:01] <mjg59> vga16 is hard, let's go shopping
[02:02] <Keybuk> heh
[02:02] <Keybuk> or just replace the whole thing with something that uses just two colours and looks damned sexy
[02:02] <robertj> splash with symbol only could be very striking... -> http://www.atwmusic.com/22475.gif
[02:02] <Keybuk> a single white pixel black and white outline of the ubuntu logo, and a white progress bar in a single white pixel box
[02:02] <mjg59> I remember getting the boot text stuff working in Helsinki airport
[02:02] <_ion> robertj: :-D
[02:03] <mjg59> Keybuk: The Vista releases so far have been b&w art
[02:03] <mjg59> It'll shift to colour for the final release, but it looks pretty sharp now
[02:03] <robertj> mjg: is that anywhere on the net? apples is http://www.magiclinux.org/people/lovewilliam/Bootsplash/Apple.jpg
[02:03] <Keybuk> mjg59: I know, I've been playing
[02:03] <mjg59> robertj: Somewhere, yeah. Not sure where, though
[02:04] <Keybuk> http://www.geekswithblogs.com/images/www_geekswithblogs_com/storageman/2287/o_booting.JPG
[02:04] <robertj> looks like XP to me
[02:04] <mjg59> Sleep is irritatingly fast on Macs
[02:04] <tritium> doesn't the windows bootsplash fade in from black?
[02:04] <Keybuk> mjg59: we should make our own hardware
[02:04] <Keybuk> tritium: not that I'm aware, no
[02:04] <lifeless> Keybuk: gmorning
[02:04] <Keybuk> sladen: heh, where? :p
[02:04] <Keybuk> lifeless: morning
[02:05] <sladen> tritium: yes, it does.  Even my original usplash code did that :)
[02:05] <tritium> Keybuk: no?  I'll double check...
[02:05] <Keybuk> sladen: "edgy test card", would look great
[02:05] <tritium> sladen: cool :)
[02:05] <robertj> mjg59: how much of that is trickery with bringing up the old framebuffer while no one is at home behind the scenes?
[02:05] <Keybuk> if only we could make it play the BBC Schools theme while it started
[02:05] <sladen> tritium: a 1 second fade makes it look so sexy
[02:05] <lifeless> Keybuk: question for you, is there a python interpreter for the conflicts/replaces language ?
[02:05] <tritium> I agree, sladen 
[02:05] <sladen> Keybuk: yup, looked like a testcard!
[02:05] <mjg59> robertj: Mm?
[02:05] <Keybuk> lifeless: there is not
[02:05] <lifeless> Keybuk: thanks
[02:05] <Keybuk> well
[02:05] <mjg59> robertj: Oh, right. No, the fact that they have limited hardware means they don't have to bother
[02:05] <Keybuk> there may be one in SMART :p
[02:06] <sladen> Keybuk: channel 4 schools theme was better!
[02:06] <lifeless> perhaps, but it didn't seem accessible
[02:06] <Keybuk> if we had just one kind of hardware, and access to the guys who wrote it, we could have fantastic hardware support
[02:06] <robertj> mjg59: when I wake up my ibook in OS X the image from lid close is still there and there is hardware cursor but it's still in lala land
[02:06] <lifeless> the logic was too twined in with the globale cache
[02:06] <Keybuk> sladen: I have an RM of that
[02:06] <mjg59> robertj: Oh, right. This is an Intel one
[02:06] <lifeless> though I will check again ;)
[02:06] <robertj> is that gone on the pros?
[02:07] <mjg59> Well, it doesn't happen on the imacs
[02:07] <mjg59> I haven't played with an mbp
[02:07] <mjg59> I really need to test how well it supports power management on random Intel machines
[02:08] <_ion> The Ubuntu splash would look more professional if every word had a trademark symbol after it.
[02:08] <Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/tmp/ITVon4_Clock.rm
[02:08] <Keybuk> sladen: ^
[02:08] <Keybuk> _ion: I'm often surprised the Janes haven't required us to start doing that yet
[02:11] <jcole> http://www.glatozen.org/wallpaper/wallpaper.php?variable=ubuntu
[02:11] <tritium> mjg59: please don't tell me intel iMacs will be supported before G5 iMacs :(
[02:12] <mjg59> tritium: What's up with G5 imacs?
[02:13] <mjg59> I don't have any, so it's hard for me to do anything
[02:13] <Keybuk> one of my original ideas for the boot splash was that the Ubuntu logo should spin
[02:13] <tritium> mjg59: fan control problems, apparently patched in 2.6.16
[02:13] <Keybuk> then we realised just how bad the Ubuntu logo looks in just about any other position
[02:13] <mjg59> tritium: Can you find the patch?
[02:13] <tritium> mjg59: I'll look, yes
[02:13] <mjg59> Keybuk: I'm really not big on animated boot screens
[02:13] <Keybuk> mjg59: aye, they tend to defeat the object
[02:13] <sladen> Keybuk: I'm so going to patch usplash to poll for /dev/dsp being created and then cat that theme into it
[02:13] <Keybuk> the screen is there because it takes a long time to boot
[02:14] <robertj> btw, has anyone else pitched a fit about wrong password handling in gksu?
[02:14] <Keybuk> sladen: heh, I had evil plans to use upstart to bring alsa up really early and do it
[02:14] <mjg59> Gnome starts *astonishingly* fast from a warm cache now
[02:14] <robertj> it's a rather scary error for some poor user trying to do security updates
[02:14] <mjg59> The splash vanishes at about the same time as the theme starts
[02:14] <sladen> robertj: gksu message?
[02:15] <Keybuk> mjg59: can we warm the cache easily?
[02:15] <mjg59> The seeking really kills us right now
[02:15] <robertj> sladen: Failed to run /usr/sbin/synaptic --upgrade-mode --non-interactive --hide-main-window
[02:15] <robertj> Wrong password.
[02:15] <sladen> maybe the splash should stay around until the menubar has actually loaded
[02:15] <mjg59> Keybuk: We could find out what files it's reading and do magic to ensure that they're in a linear block of the disk...
[02:15] <mjg59> Other than that, nothing springs to mind
[02:15] <mjg59> But just log out and then try logging in again
[02:15] <sladen> robertj: what is causing this and is there a bug #
[02:15] <mjg59> Most effective if you log in, log out and then log in
[02:15] <Keybuk> would doing readahead on the files help?
[02:16] <robertj> sladen: give a wrong password to the upgrade notifier
[02:16] <robertj> or just about anything
[02:16] <mjg59> Keybuk: Not sure. We'd need to check the file access patterns.
[02:16] <_ion> Would readahead help? IIRC the package contains a program that sorts /etc/readahead/given_list in the order files are physically in.
[02:16] <robertj> sladen: I've filed it upstream some time ago with no response
[02:16] <Keybuk> just run readahead-watch, then log in
[02:16] <_ion> Whoops, i didn't notice keybuk mentioning that already. :-)
[02:17] <sladen> _ion: the key is avoiding seeks, not just avoiding the order.  It's better read 100MB in a single pull than read 20MB in 5 seeks
[02:17] <Keybuk> and damn, I was having a bad day when I wrote that manpage :p
[02:17] <mjg59> Keybuk: Excellent. Thanks for volunteering!
[02:17] <mjg59> I'm going to spend the week playing with bacteria instead...
[02:18] <sladen> this C4 schools theme is catchy
[02:18] <sladen> I'm going to have it on repeat for the next week
[02:18] <Keybuk> it brings back memories, doesn't it
[02:20] <sladen> sitting cross legged on a hard carpet and watching sex-education films on a TV that was about 8 foot off the ground while the girls were all plaiting the hair of one in front and boys were all sniggering
[02:20] <sladen> Breeding: for fun and profit
[02:25] <_ion> For anyone puzzled about the strange unit: 8 feet = 2.4384 m according to units(1)
[02:25] <_ion> :-)
[02:29] <Keybuk> what's the opposite of "instant", in the length-of-time sense?
[02:29] <mjr> eternity?
[02:29] <HrdwrBoB> never
[02:30] <Keybuk> no, I mean if an event happens in less than the smallest measure of time, it's "instant"
[02:30] <Keybuk> what if an event takes a period of time?
[02:31] <lifeless> duration
[02:32] <lifeless> period
[02:32] <lifeless> range
[02:32] <lifeless> molecule ('its not atomic')
[02:33] <robertj> Keybuk: temporal?
[02:33] <_ion> t>t_{instant}
[02:34] <robertj> Keybuk: why do you ask?
[02:34] <Keybuk> robertj: trying to describe something in a document, and can't quite get the right word
[02:35] <robertj> pastebin for context?
[02:36] <Keybuk> trying to work out whether I can rewrite this bit
[02:36] <Keybuk> usually I figure if it's hard to describe, it's hard to implement
[02:37] <lifeless> eggauah: delta
[02:37] <lifeless> meh
[02:37] <lifeless> Keybuk: delta
[02:37] <_ion> Describe it in pseudo code instead of plain English. :-)
[02:38] <sladen> you're right.  that wrong-password thing is a bit scary
[02:38] <Keybuk> the system being switched on is an instant event
[02:38] <Keybuk> as is the lid button being pushed
[02:38] <Keybuk> etc.
[02:38] <Keybuk> a network card being present is a BLANK event
[02:39] <Keybuk> (it has a particular length and life, and implies that the event stops)
[02:39] <_ion> Are you sure you want to call it an event?
[02:40] <Keybuk> I don't have to use the word event, no
[02:40] <sladen> is that "a state"
[02:40] <Keybuk> though I'd like to use the same word to describe both
[02:40] <sladen> the state being that the NIC is present
[02:40] <lifeless> Keybuk: PCI cards offer a term
[02:40] <mjr> indeed
[02:40] <lifeless> 'Edge' and 'Level'
[02:40] <sladen> the event is that transition (which occurs at an instant) when the state changes
[02:40] <mjr> "persistent" is a word you might be looking for
[02:41] <mjr> but yes, rather a state than an event
[02:41] <lifeless> Keybuk: lid button is an edge trigger, card being present is a level trigger
[02:42] <Keybuk> and if you wanted a light on while the lid button was held down, that's a level trigger?
[02:42] <sladen> isn't English a funky language
[02:43] <_ion> Hey, if English was good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for us.
[02:43] <sladen> PraiseTheLord
[02:44] <lifeless> Keybuk: yes
[02:50] <robertj> Keybuk: I might ask if you could get away with BLANK == ""
[02:51] <robertj> although then your a would have to be an an, so that won't work
[02:53] <robertj> sladen: should I file a bug on gksu in launchpad?
[03:39] <coz_> hello all i was here earlier about the logout dialog UI and the shortcut  glad it was fixed so soon also the command to invoke the dialog UI is "gnome-seesion-save --kill" for thoses that said there was no command
[03:39] <coz_> thanks again whoever made the fix
[03:39] <coz_> now the UI is off center of the screen is there a conf file that this can be adjusted with
[03:41] <coz_> have to go
[03:42] <jcole> are there plans for a grub splash?
[03:43] <crimsun> jcole: do you mean /usr/share/pixmaps/grub/ubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz ? :)
[03:44] <jcole> crimsun: ah, i must have to do an ln -s ...update-grub
[03:44] <jcole> crimsun: why isn't it enable by default?
[03:45] <Burgundavia> jcole, it breaks on some machines
[03:46] <jcole> Burgundavia: ah, gotcha... how does sushi and redhat get way with it?
[03:46] <crimsun> jcole: the rationale is explained in the changelog
[03:46] <jcole> crimsun: ok
[03:47] <crimsun> 0.2.28-{2,3}
[03:49] <jcole> Burgundavia: the ubuntu install cd has a bootsplash
[03:50] <jcole> splash.rle
[04:00] <infinity> That's not grub.
[04:31] <lifeless> auxesis: dude
[04:32] <lifeless> infinity: what neon do you want baz updated to ?
[04:32] <auxesis> hey lifeless :)
[04:32] <infinity> lifeless: 25.
[05:08] <lifeless> garh
[05:47] <lifeless> infinity: ping
[05:48] <lifeless> neon 25 is *more* broken, not less
[05:48] <lifeless> infinity: its broken enough that fixing means 'write own uri escape routine'.
[05:48] <lifeless> infinity: specifically:
[05:48] <lifeless> Breakpoint 1, escape_location (location=0x808974d "cached:/foo") at /home/robertc/source/bazaar-1.4.2/src/baz/libarch/pfs.c:539
[05:49] <lifeless> 539       if (ne_uri_parse (location, &parsed_uri) != 0)
[05:49] <lifeless> (gdb) print parsed_uri
[05:49] <lifeless> $1 = {scheme = 0x0, host = 0x809e008 "cached", port = 0, path = 0x809e018 "/foo", authinfo = 0x0}
[05:49] <lifeless> scheme should be cached: here, and path /foo - because its an unknown scheme the opaque rules should kick in
[05:49] <lifeless> sorry, neon24 needs to stay :(
[05:53] <infinity> Hrm, that parse looks correct to me.
[05:53] <lifeless> infinity: ?!
[05:54] <infinity> "scp foo myhost:/bar" the scheme is unknown/NULL, the host is myhost, the path is /bar
[05:54] <lifeless> scp does not use uris
[05:54] <infinity> No, but that's an invalid URI, no matter how you slice it.
[05:54] <lifeless> no its not
[05:54] <infinity> As a URI, it would have to have more slashes.
[05:54] <lifeless> no
[05:55] <infinity> (Or fewer, a la mailto:)
[05:56] <lifeless> right. if its not hierarchical, then its opaque 
[05:57] <infinity> So, do bzr and svn work around this change in some way, or did they never use a foo:/bar scheme anywhere to start with (which seems broken to me anyway, but whatever)?
[05:57] <lifeless> bzr does not use neon
[05:57] <infinity> Oh, right.
[05:58] <lifeless> dont know about svn. 
[05:58] <infinity> I suspect SVN never had a need to use such schemes in the first place.
[05:58] <lifeless> 1.2.3 in std66 is the relevant bit, FWIW
[05:58] <lifeless> I suspect ne_uri_parse does what it does to let the caller apply heuristics
[05:59] <lifeless> 'it looked like a host, so use whatever your UI considers the default scheme'
[05:59] <infinity> Well, yes, like I said, it looked correct to me.
[05:59] <infinity> I would have considered the other behaviour buggy.
[06:00] <lifeless> you are clearly not a URI/HTTP Nazi
[06:00] <lifeless> :)
[06:01] <infinity> PHP agrees with you, which almost certainly makes you wrong. :)
[06:01] <lifeless> argh!
[06:02] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ php -r 'print_r(parse_url("cached:/foo"));'
[06:02] <infinity> Array
[06:02] <infinity> (
[06:02] <infinity>     [scheme]  => cached
[06:02] <infinity>     [path]  => /foo
[06:02] <infinity> )
[06:02] <lifeless> yup
[06:02] <lifeless> that is correct.
[06:02] <infinity> See, if you're on the same side as PHP, there's something wrong with you.
[06:02] <lifeless> the caller then can go 'if scheme not in recognised_schemes maybe theres no host' etc
[06:03] <lifeless> its definately the double // that triggers it in neon
[06:03] <lifeless>  print parsed_uri
[06:03] <lifeless> $1 = {scheme = 0x809e008 "cached", host = 0x809e028 "foo", port = 0, path = 0x809e018 "/", authinfo = 0x0}
[06:03] <lifeless> cached://foo was the input
[06:04] <infinity> Yes, well no arguing that that's clearly correct.
[06:04] <lifeless> right
[06:04] <lifeless> if they got that wrong, it would be 'bad'
[06:06] <lifeless> heres an example from std66 though
[06:06] <lifeless>          foo://example.com:8042/over/there?name=ferret#nose
[06:06] <lifeless>          \_/   \______________/\_________/ \_________/ \__/
[06:06] <lifeless>           |           |            |            |        |
[06:06] <lifeless>        scheme     authority       path        query   fragment
[06:06] <lifeless>           |   _____________________|__
[06:06] <lifeless>          / \ /                        \
[06:06] <lifeless>          urn:example:animal:ferret:nose
[06:06] <lifeless> note that *everything* after the urn: is considered path
[06:07] <lifeless> and WOW neon fucks that over
[06:07] <lifeless> Breakpoint 1, escape_location (location=0x8089a41 "urn:foo:bar") at /home/robertc/source/bazaar-1.4.2/src/baz/libarch/pfs.c:539
[06:07] <lifeless> 539       if (ne_uri_parse (location, &parsed_uri) != 0)
[06:08] <lifeless> (gdb) print parsed_uri 
[06:08] <lifeless> $1 = {scheme = 0x0, host = 0x809e018 "urn", port = 0, path = 0x809e008 "/", authinfo = 0x0}
[06:08] <infinity> Neat. :)
[06:09] <infinity> Alright, I can keep neon24 in.  I'd be pretty happy if you filed bugs (with wonderful explanations and charts) to neon upstream to get this sorted once and for all in neon26, though. :/
[06:09] <lifeless> I'll see what I can do 
[06:09] <lifeless> got to go do plane tickets now though
[06:09] <lifeless> tchau
[06:10] <lifeless> oh, and for the canonical word ...
[06:10] <lifeless> If a URI does not contain an authority component, then the path cannot begin with two slash characters ("//")
[06:10] <lifeless> quote, unquote
[06:10] <lifeless> cached:/bar - no authority, and does not start with two slashes :)
[06:11] <infinity> But does it say anything about starting the path with one slash?
[06:12] <infinity> (I'd expect a NULL authority to actually appear as such, like in the case of file:///foo)
[06:29] <Chipzz> slomo__: can you close bug 42594 please?
[06:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42594 in dbus "/etc/X11/Xsession.d/75dbus-1-utils_dbus-launch is not needed" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42594
[07:27] <pitti> Good morning
[07:28] <desrt> good morning
[07:30] <pitti> hi desrt 
[07:32] <ajmitch> hi pitti, desrt 
[07:33] <desrt> ajmitch; thanks again for the debianising help.  my changes got uploaded the next morning :)
[07:33] <ajmitch> great :)
[07:39] <hendry> anyone aware of this "invalid tar magic" debootstrap error message?
[07:39] <lunitik> Hello... something care to clear something up... Ubuntu ships proprietary drivers via restricted package 'linux-restricted-modules' by default (active during install) correct?
[07:39] <lunitik> s/something/someone/
[07:40] <hendry> lunitik: yes. or they have unclear licenses
[07:42] <Burgundavia> lunitik, yes, they do. In restricted modules is a bunch of non-free software stuff
[07:43] <Burgundavia> lunitik, are you referring to the whole koroaa mess?
[07:43] <lunitik> Burgundavia: nope... someone in #suse is trying to argue with me  :/
[09:23] <dholbach> good morning
[09:23] <pygi> mornin' dholbach 
[09:24] <dholbach> hey pygi
[09:24] <pygi> whats up dholbach ? :)
[09:25] <janimo> dholbach: morning
[09:25] <pitti> dholbach: I just asked myself which penguintv version won - your's or zul's (they are both accepted on d-changes)
[09:25] <dholbach> hey janimo
[09:26] <dholbach> pitti: zul's - then one that had an uninstallable depends :-p
[09:26] <dholbach> I assigned the bug to him
[09:28] <desrt> i love how sunday night is morning for y'all
[09:56] <Kaloz> any idea why does mc trash bash_history this way http://pastebin.com/718295?
[10:05] <Kaloz> okay, found it.. it's a clean install, and now .bashrc has ignoredups
[10:06] <Kaloz> it should be ignoreboth :p
[10:09] <sivang> morning all
[10:11] <pygi> mornin' sivang 
[10:12] <pygi> talk to you later :)
[10:16] <pitti> Riddell: do you still get the 'request entity too large' bug with 1.2.0?
[10:47] <ivoks> mvo: ping
[10:47] <mdke> guys. what is this sun-java5 package that has appeared?
[10:47] <ubijtsa2> jre 1.5 on a guess
[10:47] <ivoks> mdke: changelog says it's upgrade of 1.4
[10:48] <Burgundavia> ivoks, I think they mean the blackdown 1.4 packages and I think they are referring to the style of packaging
[10:48] <ivoks> Burgundavia: i didn't read it to carefully :)
[10:49] <Burgundavia> hmm, no hits for DJL, distributed java license, distribution java license or desktop java license
[10:49] <mdke> what I really meant was, how can this appear 15 days before the release without any warning to the doc team?
[10:49] <mvo> ivoks: hello
[10:50] <ivoks> mvo: hi
[10:50] <janimo> mdke, thanks for the xubuntu guide translation call
[10:50] <ivoks> mvo: does the patch i sent you back looks ok?
[10:50] <mdke> janimo: np.
[10:50] <Burgundavia> mdke, "Java development is expected to get a boost on Linux at the JavaOne conference, with partnerships anticipated for including the Java Runtime Environment with Linux distributions, Sun officials said."
[10:50] <ivoks> mvo: the one you sent me introduced lots of unwanted side effects :/
[10:51] <Burgundavia> JavaOne starts today, so I suspect that is why
[10:51] <mdke> Burgundavia: well Sun officials didn't notify the ubuntu docteam either
[10:51] <mvo> ivoks: yes, I'm building test-debs right now
[10:51] <Burgundavia> mdke, don't know that they have to :)
[10:51] <ivoks> mvo: ok
[10:51] <mvo> ivoks: glade messed it up apparently :/
[10:51] <mdke> Burgundavia: they don't.
[10:52] <ivoks> mvo: fwiw, i'm using that patch for couple of days and looks ok :)
[10:52] <seb128> mdke: hi
[10:52] <seb128> mdke: is the "disks-admin" feature described by the documentation?
[10:52] <mvo> ivoks: cool :) 
[10:53] <seb128> mdke: that stuff is really bugged and we are thinking to not build it for dapper ... would that be an issue for the documentation ?
[10:53] <mdke> seb128: yes, it would :)
[10:53] <seb128> graa
[10:53] <ivoks> seb128: bad timing :)
[10:53] <seb128> mdke: should I reassign to you all the bugs we get about it then ? :p
[10:53] <mdke> seb128: see System/Help/System Documentation/Ubuntu Desktop Guide/Configuring the System/Partitions and Booting
[10:54] <mdke> seb128: no thanks. But it is only described for quite basic tasks
[10:54] <seb128> yeah, but the tool is really bugged
[10:54] <seb128> it doesn't modify fstab
[10:54] <mdke> yes, we haven't used it for where that is necessary
[10:54] <seb128> widgets don't adapt themself with most of locales and buttons are displayed out of the window
[10:54] <Burgundavia> seb128, minor english nitpick s/bugged/buggy
[10:54] <mdke> see section 4.2.2, and compare with 4.2.3
[10:54] <seb128> it doesn't list partitions correctly for many people
[10:55] <ivoks> seb128: i noticed it has problems with lvm partitions
[10:55] <seb128> Burgundavia: right, you already told me that, I'll get it right next time ;)
[10:56] <mdke> seb128: well, modifying the documentation isn't really an option because our translators are unlikely to get it updated in the 16 or so hours that remain before translation freeze
[10:56] <mdke> but if it's absolutely necessary, I suppose we can try it
[10:57] <seb128> mdke: dropping parts should not impact on documentation, does it?
[10:57] <mdke> seb128: parts?
[10:57] <seb128> if we drop disks-admin that's not some addition
[10:57] <seb128> ie: nothing new to translate
[10:57] <ivoks> seb128: it changes line numbering, doesn't it?
[10:58] <mdke> seb128: right, but we will need to use something else in the documentation for that particular task
[10:58] <ivoks> if we drop it from documentation
[10:58] <mdke> so whatever we add will need to be translated
[10:58] <seb128> k, so we will let it
[10:58] <seb128> suck
[10:58] <seb128> there is no other tool to describe for the task anyway
[10:58] <mdke> yeah, there is mount
[10:59] <seb128> right
[10:59] <seb128> anyway I though it would no break any freeze
[10:59] <seb128> but it you want to document some other way in case we drop it, we will let it
[11:00] <mdke> erm...
[11:00] <mdke> we will change it IF you are going to drop it
[11:00] <seb128> right
[11:00] <mdke> so tell me
[11:00] <seb128> but I don't want to force you to change so we will keep it
[11:01] <seb128> mdke: BTW, "16 or so hours that remain before translation freeze"?
[11:01] <seb128> mdke: I though the freeze was  for the 18th?
[11:01] <mdke> oh yeah, my bad
[11:01] <mdke> that might help
[11:02] <desrt> seb128; get a chance to try reducing the number of rows of dots on the handles?
[11:03] <seb128> desrt: got your mail but I didn't do that much work saturday,sunday, I'll try that
[11:03] <desrt> cool
[11:03] <seb128> desrt: nobody complained and I'm not sure it's worth break UI freeze and make enemies to the documentation team
[11:03] <desrt> that counts as part of UI freeze?
[11:03] <desrt> crikey
[11:03] <seb128> I would think so
[11:04] <seb128> that change the looks of the default panel
[11:04] <seb128> if I got your description correctly
[11:04] <desrt> true enough
[11:04] <seb128> though it's really minor
[11:04] <desrt> it still looks unprofessional, i guess
[11:04] <seb128> I don't think anyway would really care of the screenshot difference
[11:04] <desrt> and #1: the screenshots have the wrong number of dots!!
[11:04] <mdke> seb128: listen, you are the only person who has seen all the bugs of the app, and now you know the impact on documentation. You should make the decision based on those: I can change the document today and notify the translators, if you think it's worth it.
[11:05] <seb128> mdke: k, will discuss it with other desktop team people and will let you know soon
[11:06] <seb128> mdke: we got a list of duplicates of "doesn't list my partitions correctly" and I'm not comfortable with what could happen if you try doing changes on a disk not correctly detected like that
[11:07] <janimo> seb128: does ubuntu/gnome install some custom or modified defaults.list files for mime-handler associations?
[11:07] <seb128> mdke: not to mention the UI doesn't looking right with most of non-english locales and the tools not editing fstab
[11:07] <seb128> janimo: /etc/gnome/default.list
[11:07] <seb128> janimo: /etc/gnome/defaults.list
[11:07] <janimo> I'd like to figure out how to make some xubuntu specific ones (i.e jpg open with gqview not gimp)
[11:07] <seb128> janimo: no way
[11:07] <janimo> seb128: do I need to do a similar one and add XDG_DATA_DIR in xfce xinitrc script?
[11:07] <mdke> seb128: right. Can you send me the decision by email? That way I will definitely pick it up
[11:08] <seb128> janimo: hum, I'm not sure that would work
[11:08] <seb128> janimo: all the .desktop are installed to /usr/share/applications and you want to use it
[11:08] <seb128> mdke: sure, thank you
[11:08] <janimo> seb128: yes the desktops are there
[11:08] <seb128> mdke: would you mind if we change the panel handles looking a bit for dapper?
[11:09] <janimo> but the default associations are in 3 directories now
[11:09] <seb128> janimo: so you can't use an another directory
[11:09] <janimo> and they can be override in ~/.local 
[11:09] <seb128> janimo: ah? we use "/usr/share/applications/defaults.list -> /etc/gnome/defaults.list"
[11:09] <mdke> seb128: what do you mean by handles?
[11:09] <janimo> ah it's  link? did not see that
[11:09] <seb128> mdke: the grip of the windows' list and the notification area
[11:09] <seb128> mdke: 
[11:10] <seb128> "engine/src/ubuntulooks_draw.c:1652:   num_bars    = 8;
[11:10] <seb128> This is how many rows of 'dots' get drawn for the handle of applets on
[11:10] <seb128> the panel.  I think this looks much better as 5 or 6.  At 8 the dots
[11:10] <seb128> take up the entire panel and look like they're too crowded.  5/6 centre
[11:10] <seb128> in the panel and look nicer."
[11:10] <janimo> seb128: but those are cascading I assume, so thunar (for instance) can be made to read another one which overrides /usr/share/app
[11:10] <mdke> seb128: sure, we don't use screenshots much
[11:10] <janimo> and falls back to it for not found associations
[11:10] <janimo> the spec is not too clear on this from what UI read
[11:10] <seb128> mdke: that would slightly modify the panel look but I'm not sure anybody cares really of a such detail
[11:11] <seb128> janimo: sure, I though you were using gnome-vfs for that
[11:11] <janimo> seb128: no, does not affect gnome behaviour in any way
[11:11] <seb128> I'm sure your changes will not affect GNOME, don't worry ;)
[11:11] <seb128> I just though you were using gnome-vfs to get the mimemagic etc
[11:12] <janimo> seb128: so you know some standard trick other than adding XDG_DATA dirs in some session init script
[11:12] <janimo> seb128: heh ;) , no thinar has it's own mime library
[11:12] <seb128> if you are your implementation feel free to use a siliar defaults.list for xfce and hack yours package to use that one
[11:12] <janimo> since gtk/glib does not provide such a basic mime functionality
[11:12] <seb128> janimo: XDG_DATA will not work, you will stop having the /usr/share/applications/*.desktop listed I think
[11:12] <mdke> seb128: oh we'll need to change section 4.3.7.1 (under Hardware) for disks-admin too. FYI
[11:13] <janimo> seb128: I'll see what I can do
[11:14] <seb128> janimo: hack your code to look to an another location for defaults.list I would say
[11:14] <seb128> janimo: that's what Debian did for GNOME
[11:14] <seb128> so they don't conflict with KDE for that
[11:16] <ogra> janimo, there are people having problems with xfce session on logout in ltsp, seems xfce doesnt detect that you are not physically at the console and offers shutdown and reboot to terminal users
[11:16] <ogra> (gnome-session detects that and only offers logout/switch user/lock screen)
[11:18] <desrt> ogra; a lot of the xscreensavers assume that they won't be drawn over top of
[11:18] <desrt> ogra; and, therefore, don't handle expose events
[11:18] <desrt> ogra; they just draw.....
[11:19] <desrt> ogra; so if you gdk_window_show the X window that they're drawing onto the flicker that that causes really messes up the display
[11:20] <ogra> desrt, dont worry, i'll add the patch 
[11:20] <janimo> ogra, thanks I'll try to see what it is
[11:20] <desrt> ogra; awesome.  thx :)
[11:21] <janimo> ogra, although xfce4-session just uses HAL to shutdown/reboot so the dialog may be there but inactive?
[11:21] <ogra> desrt, LP has a 5min delay in mail processing, i answered without seeing the next twop comments, it was only a first debugging hint to ask to run it without g-s-s
[11:21] <ogra> sorry for the confusion
[11:21] <janimo> ogra, do you have a link to the posts or doem more details?
[11:21] <desrt> ogra; ahh.  ok.  sorry if my reply came across as a bit hostile, then :)
[11:21] <janimo> unless they;re using breezy
[11:22] <dholbach> janimo: you can seed tango-icon-theme-common now (and gnumeric-gtk too)
[11:22] <janimo> dholbach: seeded a while ago, will need to recreate xubuntu dsktop though. Thanks :)
[11:22] <ogra> janimo, not really, Petraris is a frequent guest in #edubuntu and trying a xfce setuo on ltsp currently, i think he already talked to you about other stuff
[11:23] <dholbach> janimo: ok
[11:23] <janimo> ogra: yes the nick sounds familiar
[11:23] <ogra> janimo, i'll talk to him to contact you
[11:23] <janimo> ogra: thanks. either me personally or a bug in LP against xfce4-session is ok
[11:24] <ogra> yep
[11:24] <ogra> janimo, there must be code in gnome-session to detect that, so you likely cna just copy it
[11:24] <ogra> *can
[11:25] <janimo> ok, I am not sure yet what the symptoms are but once that;s clear I'll see how to solve it
[11:29] <freeflying> pitti: ping
[11:30] <pitti> hi freeflying 
[11:30] <freeflying> pitti: sorry for bother, would you mind join #ubuntu-tw
[11:32] <freeflying> pitti: guys of ubuntu-tw have problems with i18n wanna comunicate with you 
[11:32] <Kamion> janimo: xubuntu tasks in the archive exist now, so netboot installs should work
[11:33] <pitti> freeflying: I'm in
[11:36] <freeflying> pitti: thx
[11:37] <caleb-> carlos: Is there some script to upload A LOT OF po-files?
[11:37] <caleb-> caleb-: pitti saird that we may ask you...:P
[11:37] <carlos> caleb-: what do you mean by 'A LOT OF po-files' ?
[11:37] <caleb-> s/saird/said/
[11:37] <carlos> for a single language?
[11:38] <freeflying> pitti: seems you fogot add zh l-s in your daily repos :)
[11:38] <caleb-> carlos: ubuntu-tw has 300 pos waited to be upload.
[11:38] <caleb-> carlos: but we just know hot to upload one after one...
[11:38] <carlos> caleb-: hmmm no, I don't think we have such script
[11:39] <carlos> that's something doable
[11:39] <pitti> freeflying: I changed the scripts to build all languages this morning; check after today's cron job (around 1600 UTC)
[11:39] <caleb-> carlos: so...we still must upload one and one and one...?
[11:39] <freeflying> pitti: great, thx
[11:39] <carlos> caleb-: yes :-(
[11:39] <carlos> caleb-: you should not wait so much time to upload them...
[11:39] <caleb-> carlos: ok, we will find more people to upload...
[11:40] <carlos> caleb-: what I did in the past
[11:40] <carlos> is with curl simulate the submits
[11:40] <caleb-> carlos: :P KDE users at Taiwan is not very active in translation...
[11:40] <carlos> but the upload form has changed since the time I wrote that curl script and I don't have it around anymore
[11:41] <carlos> caleb-: you could do something like that
[11:41] <ajmitch> Kamion: could you look at python2.3-{xml,imaging} in NEW? I need them for zope2.8 & related packages
[11:41] <carlos> caleb-: hmm if it's KDE... I think we could do something.....
[11:43] <caleb-> carlos: if there has some new way to upload pos, you may tell freeflying instead. I have to leave in 10 minutes...
[11:43] <caleb-> carlos: Thank you. :-)
[11:43] <carlos> caleb-: hmm, no, sorry, we cannot do anything yet. The trick will not work with distributions, just with products, sorry...
[11:49] <Kamion> ajmitch: I'm in the middle of something that requires my full concentration at the moment, but I'll do it when I'm finished
[11:49] <ajmitch> alright, thanks
[11:50] <carlos> Kamion: upps, sorry, I forgot your update request... I'm going to do it now
[12:17] <dholbach> who is a bit familiar with gawk and could check some patches that iegary sent?
[12:17] <Kamion> mdke: I'm planning to change the Ubiquity icon, per bug 41472; any objections?
[12:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41472 in ubiquity "icon not descriptive" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41472
[12:17] <Kamion> to http://www.tuxresources.org/antonio/Documentos/ubuntu-express-install/express-vetor.svg
[12:18] <ogra> hmm, branded ? 
[12:20] <Kamion> ogra: yes, but no more than the existing one
[12:20] <ogra> i would imagine a CD instead of the logo might work better 
[12:21] <Kamion> contributions welcome; I can't draw
[12:21] <ogra> the logo isnt as prominent in the crurrent icon, its rather swallowed a bit by the background
[12:21] <jsgotangco> it seems to work on my eyes though
[12:21] <jsgotangco> "put ubuntu into this HD"
[12:22] <mdke> Kamion: nope
[12:22] <jsgotangco> or computer hrmmm
[12:22] <ogra> jsgotangco, and what about edubuntu and xubuntu ? 
[12:22] <Kamion> may be a matter of my eyes, looks pretty prominent in the existing icon to me
[12:22] <ogra> a neutral icon needs no rebranding ;)
[12:23] <Kamion> I'm not objecting, but *you* need to talk to the artwork guys about that
[12:23] <ogra> yep understood
[12:23] <Kamion> in the meantime I honestly don't think that this change makes anything worse
[12:24] <ogra> nope, i didnt say it does :)
[12:25] <ogra> but i never even noticed the logo in the current icon, while this one directly jumped in my face, i just noted the difference
[12:25] <Kamion> what were you using to view the new icon?
[12:26] <ogra> firefox
[12:26] <Kamion> I think it might be different if you have it on the desktop, with transparency etc.
[12:28] <ogra> hmm
[12:28] <dholbach> elmo: it seems that you're quite familiar with gawk - would you mind, if I subscribe you to the bugs with patches to get your input?
[12:28] <ogra> the arrow is half transparent, that looks very odd on the edubuntu default wallpaper
[12:32] <slomo> ogra: any news with dia 0.95?
[12:33] <dholbach> hey slomo!
[12:34] <Kamion> carlos: thanks
[12:34] <slomo> hi dholbach :)
[12:36] <seb128> Kamion: I'm trying a daily CD, ubiquity default to "Brussels" if you pick french as language ... is a that a known issue? What sort of data do you need for that?
[12:37] <Kamion> seb128: known and filed, I don't think I need any further information, thanks
[12:37] <Kamion> seb128: bug 43914
[12:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43914 in ubiquity "city selection (step 3) fails in some languages" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43914
[12:37] <seb128> Kamion: ok, thank you
[12:38] <Toadstool> hi here! dholbach, as you're the one who took care of lintian 1.23.13, do you have time to review the latest debdiff attached to bug 36505?
[12:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36505 in lintian "Ubuntu Lintian shouldn't do the nmu checks" [Wishlist,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36505
[12:38] <dholbach> Toadstool: not at the moment - but somebody else should be up to the job too
[12:38] <Toadstool> ok
[12:39] <Toadstool> anybody else? :)
[01:18] <Kamion> ajmitch: done, source uploads anyway
[01:18] <ajmitch> thanks
[01:41] <ogra> Mithrandir, what happened about the announced flight8 prep on friday ? 
[01:41] <pitti> Mithrandir: you mean during the install, or in the running system?
[01:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: (in a running system, that's hal probing CD-ROMs for media changes)
[01:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: in the running system.
[01:42] <janimo> ogra: F8 is for this next Friday no?
[01:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: why does it do it when there's a cd mounted already?
[01:42] <ogra> janimo, as i understood it it was last fri ...
[01:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: because it's too dumb to look at the mount status
[01:42] <janimo> no, biweekly I think
[01:42] <Mithrandir> ogra: it's going to be sent out tomorrow or wednesday, as I said in the meeting.
[01:43] <ogra> Mithrandir, oh, then janimo is right and i mixed up the weeks ?
[01:44] <Mithrandir> ogra: I have no idea what dates you were thinking of, but flight 8 is going to be released on friday, freeze begins thursday morning.
[01:44] <ogra> Mithrandir, your weekly status said we'll prepare for flight8 on friday :)
[01:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31433 in notification-daemon "notify bubble has text across screens" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31433
[01:45] <ogra> so i misunderstood that we'll start preparing for it on friday and not we'll have it on friday :)
[01:46] <Mithrandir> nah, last Friday would have been too soon.
[01:46] <_ion> mvo: Any news re: notification-daemon + xinerama? :-)
[01:46] <ogra> yep, but at least i got edubuntu nearly in shape over the weekend through that :)
[01:46] <_ion> mvo: Sorry for bugging you all the time, i'm sure you're very busy.
[01:53] <zul> heylo
[01:53] <_ion> highlow
[01:56] <Riddell> pitti: are the language packs at http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/ actually updated?  the version number on them suggests they are still from last thursday
[01:57] <pitti> Riddell: oh, hm, they are updated, but the version number is wrong
[01:57] <pitti> Riddell: I'll fix that, thanks
[02:03] <simira> seb128: remember the gnome panel crashing - bug?
[02:18] <pitti> Riddell: did you see my printer question from this morning?
[02:21] <_ion> I posted about notification-daemon+xinerama to the forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=176775
[02:21] <pitti> carlos: may it be the case that the latest dapper tarball is from Thursday? the timestamp.txt still says May 11th
[02:21] <pitti> Riddell: ^ that's the root cause for the wrong version number
[02:21] <mvo> _ion: thanks, I have a look today, keep nagging me if not 
[02:22] <carlos> pitti: could be
[02:22] <carlos> pitti: we had some problems with the mirror db
[02:23] <carlos> pitti: yes, latest one was done on Thursday...
[02:23] <carlos> :-(
[02:23] <Riddell> pitti: I did then I forgot about it, let me try new cupsys now
[02:24] <pitti> Riddell: I tried the command mentioned in the bug report, and it works for me (but I don't have that printer)
[02:27] <pitti> BenC: Hi! Do you think you can apply all the outstanding vulns in the dapper kernel by Thursday? (the freeze)
[02:28] <BenC> pitti: I think I already have, but I'll check the list to make sure
[02:28] <pitti> BenC: ah, great; can you please add the CVEs?
[02:28] <tseng> morn pitti 
[02:28] <pitti> BenC: there's also a bunch of new issues in SCTP, I'll mail you the stuff
[02:28] <pitti> tseng: hey hey
[02:29] <BenC> pitti: ok
[02:29] <Mithrandir> hmm, is there a way to send ctrl-alt-f1 or similar to a guest in vmware?
[02:36] <Riddell> pitti: yes, printing seems to work now without complaint
[02:36] <pitti> Riddell: cool, thanks for confirming
[02:42] <sladen> Mithrandir: change the vmware hotkey to something other than ctrl-alt
[02:42] <sladen> Mithrandir: or do  chvt 1
[02:49] <Mithrandir> sladen: I fixed it by using ctrl-alt-shift-f1 since the kernel reacts to that too.
[02:54] <h3sp4wn> Is there anyway to see the code which generates the cdimages on the build servers - I have been messing about adding packages to the squashfs and rebuilding the live-cd they work but always seem to run slower than the actual live cd's - or any documentation about the squashfs (and the way its built)
[02:56] <Mithrandir> h3sp4wn: the squashfs is just built with mksquashfs and no fancy parameters.
[02:58] <h3sp4wn> Mithrandir: Thanks for the response - at least now I know that I am just messing something up along the way
[02:58] <Mithrandir> h3sp4wn: but you should always measure speed, not count on "feels slower"
[03:01] <h3sp4wn> Mithrandir: It boots alot slower (minutes as apposed to seconds) - I will investigate thanks again
[03:02] <Kamion> h3sp4wn: our normal live CDs boot in minutes for me
[03:02] <Mithrandir> Kamion: bug 40328, do you have any idea about that?  It seems to work correctly for me..
[03:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40328 in oem-config "OEM install created user has wrong $PATH" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40328
[03:02] <h3sp4wn> Kamion: I am using xubuntu which boots pretty quick from the official one but alot slower from mine
[03:03] <Kamion> h3sp4wn: ah
[03:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no clue, unless it was some kind of transient problem in user-setup (I know that's a cop-out answer)
[03:04] <Kamion> sounds like PATH in /etc/environment wasn't being picked up by pam actually
[03:04] <Kamion> or indeed .bashrc or anywhere else ...
[03:05] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well, according to pitti /etc/environment didn't include PATH
[03:05] <Mithrandir> mgalvin: hi, do you think there's need for a flight 8 page?  I'm aiming at releasing it on Friday.
[03:06] <jsgotangco> w00t
[03:06] <Kamion> unless libpam-modules failed to configure properly, maybe
[03:07] <mgalvin> Mithrandir: i think so... there has been a bunch of artwork improvements and such that can help fill a page... i will create the flight 8 page by then
[03:07] <sivang> re people
[03:07] <mgalvin> Mithrandir: thanks for the advance notice :)
[03:07] <Mithrandir> mgalvin: thanks a lot!
[03:07] <mgalvin> np
[03:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hmm, your oem-config fixes look dubious
[03:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you moved the child widgets around, but you moved the <property name="position"> elements
[03:08] <Kamion> as well
[03:08] <Kamion> which override order in the glade file
[03:08] <Kamion> at least in user-setup
[03:08] <Mithrandir> Kamion: they looked correct in glade here.
[03:09] <Kamion> ok, maybe I'm confused
[03:10] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I did the change using emacs and not glade, so I might have fucked it up, but I did look at it in glade.
[03:33] <carlos> Riddell: hi, around?
[03:33] <Riddell> carlos: yes
[03:34] <carlos> Riddell: why do we have kde-i18n-de 3.5.1 instead of 3.5.2 like other language tarballs?
[03:35] <Riddell> that's a very good question
[03:37] <Riddell> it's not in dapper-changes, it must have slipped somewhere along my way to making the kde-i18n packages, I'll fix that today
[03:37] <carlos> Riddell: do you have an easy way to check any other language pack that has that problem?
[03:37] <Riddell> carlos: did kdelibs.pot get imported into rosetta?
[03:38] <carlos> oh, I forgot to check it.., just a second...
[03:39] <carlos> Riddell: the one we have imported was generated on 12th May
[03:40] <carlos> Riddell: you will need to print the package name ;-)
[03:40] <Riddell> all fine apart from kde-i18n-hsb which isn't released with kde 3.5
[03:40] <carlos> Riddell: seems like German and something else are outdated
[03:40] <carlos> Version: 4:3.4.3-0ubuntu2
[03:40] <carlos> oh
[03:40] <carlos> ok
[03:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, have we removed the test phase from oem-config?
[03:44] <iwj> seb128: mdke sent me a mail about epiphany and DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation; he says you wanted a new symlink.  Can I have a quick word just to check I understand properly ?
[03:45] <seb128> iwj: hi, ah right
[03:45] <iwj> So I'm guessing that the reason you want this link is that you've got some thing where the homepage is ..../index-$LOCALE.html and it falls back to that with LOCALE=C ?
[03:46] <seb128> iwj: we want to set the startup page to "/usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/locales/index-%l.html" where "%l" is the locale
[03:46] <iwj> *snap* :-)
[03:46] <seb128> iwj: correct
[03:46] <seb128> is that fine to have an index-C.html then? :)
[03:46] <iwj> Right.  So you just need that one extra link from the name that epiphany falls back to, to point to the alternatives-provided en_US page.
[03:47] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah - since oem-config now brings you to a normal desktop until you run oem-config-prepare by hand, it's easy to pick hwdb-client from the menus
[03:47] <iwj> Sorry to be double-checking like this but this link farm is rapidly growing confusing :-).
[03:48] <robertj> Frank Schoep's minimal usplash is very nice looking, although I fear the text really can't go yet as he wishes :(
[03:48] <seb128> iwj: no problem, we just need an index-C.html pointing to whatever is the standard default 
[03:49] <janimo> is /usplash_fifo supposed to stick around even after boot? It interferes with tab-completion for /usr :)
[03:49] <iwj> Right.
[03:50] <iwj> I'm just trying to think which package this should be in.
[03:50] <iwj> I think the answer is epiphany.
[03:50] <iwj> ff is another possibility if you think others might need it too.
[03:52] <iwj> Oh, no, hold on, I'm not thinking clearly.   .../home/locales  isn't actually a directory, it's an alternatives link.
[03:52] <seb128> iwj: whatever ships the startup pages seems a good candidate no?
[03:53] <iwj> So you need one in each provided alternative.
[03:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, thanks.
[03:53] <seb128> iwj: what startup page does firefox use?
[03:53] <iwj> I _think_ I can do this by furtling the script in ubuntu-docs.
[03:54] <iwj> seb128: /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html as the fallback; /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/locales/index-$LOCALE.html for locale-specific pages.
[03:54] <iwj> But LOCALE != C
[03:54] <seb128> iwj: epiphany has no such feature yet, but the startup page is a gconf key so it's easy to have some code replacing %l by the locale and falling back to something
[03:54] <iwj> Right.
[03:54] <seb128> iwj: C as fallback looks sort of right to me
[03:54] <seb128> (if we want the patch accepted upstream)
[03:55] <seb128> but if that's easier for you we can fallback on -en_US.html
[03:55] <iwj> There is no -en_US.html either.
[03:55] <iwj> (Actually, en_US might be in the translateable list so it might be a symlink to the fallback page.)
[03:55] <seb128> just "index.html"? that would make impossible to have a generic case
[03:55] <seb128> I mean index-%l.html
[03:56] <iwj> Have you read DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation ?  It's all a bit mad.
[03:56] <iwj> And epiphany definitely seems saner.  Anyway I think I understand your requirement now.
[03:56] <iwj> I'll just wait for mdke to get back to me about his new locales.
[03:56] <iwj> mdke: ping
[03:56] <seb128> no I didn't read that page (yet)
[03:56] <seb128> ok
[03:57] <seb128> if you can give me any locale to fallback that will do it, I've a preference for "C" though which would allow to make a patch upstreameable
[03:57] <iwj> Yes, C is fine.
[03:58] <iwj> Err, so you'll have it look for index-%l.html and if that's ENOENT use index-C.html ?
[03:58] <iwj> Or do you need to build in a list of which locales have pages ?
[04:02] <seb128> iwj: I'll look if index-<locale>.html exists, and if that's not the case fallback to index-C.html
[04:03] <iwj> Excellent./
[04:06] <iwj> seb128: I've updated DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation to document this new plan.
[04:06] <seb128> iwj: thank you
[04:07] <Diziet> I think we should get a formal freeze exception or at least some kind of discussion.  mdz complained about DFSPT that it hadn't been sufficiently approved.
[04:07] <seb128> fine with me
[04:07] <iwj> Oops, I'm confused.  Typing into two clients.
[04:09] <mdke> iwj: yeah
[04:23] <iwj> mdke: Can you email me a list of the locales to add, then ?
[04:25] <iwj> mdke: You've just mentioned `ku' so far.  You suggested there were others ?
[04:32] <dholbach> janimo: I'm going to upload icon-naming-utils with a patch to build symlinks for xfce too
[04:32] <dholbach> janimo: if you're in a hurry you can rebuild tang*-icon-theme* (once it has built)
[04:36] <janimo> dholbach: cool, tahnks
[04:46] <Coyctecm> why amd64 bootsplash is different from x86 o_O
[04:54] <Coyctecm> well it's not anymore :P
[04:54] <Coyctecm> why change it back to that old brown...
[04:54] <Coyctecm> :(
[05:07] <zakame> hi all
[05:12] <carlos> pitti: hi, could you execute your script again?
[05:12] <carlos> pitti: seems like the tarball was ready after your script started...
[05:13] <carlos> pitti: thank you
[05:24] <mvo> Kamion: can you please NEW app-install-data-commercial?
[05:25] <jcole> udev: Conflicts: hotplug which is a virtual package
[05:28] <ozamosi> Does anyone here knows if Shipit for Dapper really will have the proposed pay-for-faster-delivery-feature?
[05:28] <pitti> carlos: I can do that, sure
[05:29] <ploum> arf, no more man pages for C 
[05:29] <tseng> ploum: manpages-dev?
[05:30] <ploum> tseng: exactly what I was looking for, thanks :-)
[05:30] <ozamosi> (or where I should ask)
[05:31] <Kamion> mvo: where should it live? (component)
[05:32] <Kamion> ozamosi: #launchpad (for the software) or info@shipit.ubuntu.com (for policy)
[05:32] <mvo> Kamion: in main please, its just a split-out of the desktop files from app-install-data
[05:32] <mvo> Kamion: to make post-release updates very simple (and small)
[05:32] <ozamosi> Kamion: thanks!
[05:32] <Kamion> mvo: ok, you're responsible for seeding it
[05:32] <Kamion> source accepted
[05:33] <kagou> hi
[05:33] <pitti> hi kagou 
[05:33] <kagou> hi pitti 
[05:33] <mvo> Kamion: thanks! it will be a dependency of gnome-app-install 
[05:34] <siretart> Kamion: while you are at NEW, can you please have a look at fai-kernels as well? 
[05:34] <siretart> Kamion: they are just installation kernels needed by 'fai'
[05:34] <Kamion> what does fai need that can't be handled by the standard kernel?
[05:34] <Kamion> additional kernels are a greater security/support burden
[05:36] <Kamion> ajmitch: python2.3-imaging-sane  Depends: python2.3-imaging (= 1.1.5-4ubuntu2), python (>= 2.4), python (<< 3), python2.3, libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libsane (>= 1.0.11-3)
[05:36] <mvo> Kamion: IIRC it has no security implications because the kernel is only used to bootstrap the system for new installs, then the "normal" kernel is installed
[05:36] <zyga> hello 
[05:36] <siretart> Kamion: they need a option for nfsroot. and they are special, because the build process creates a new kernel image using make-kpkg, which gets included in the binary dep
[05:36] <Kamion> ajmitch: seems a bit odd
[05:36] <siretart> deb, that is
[05:37] <siretart> Kamion: they are only for booting the nfsroot. and every installation is inherently insecure and only sesible in trusted environments
[05:37] <Kamion> well, support too, in case of bugs
[05:37] <siretart> Kamion: I talked to thomas lange, fai main author about this
[05:37] <siretart> they get rebuilt on every upload
[05:37] <Kamion> not every upload of our normal kernel source
[05:38] <siretart> it is 'just' a small package with special kernel config, but uses the package 'linux-source-2.6.15'
[05:38] <siretart> and it it universe after all
[05:38] <Kamion> oh, I see, that's a bit better
[05:38] <siretart> fai doesn't make too much sense without it
[05:38] <siretart> so either we include it, or we cut fai out altogether
[05:40] <Kamion> for edgy, this should be integrated into the linux-source-2.6.* package directly if possible as an extra flavour, the same way we did for d-i kernels
[05:42] <Kamion> with that (strong) reservation, I've accepted the source
[05:42] <siretart> this would need some coordination with the fai team because of the way it is used in fai, but I'll talk to them about that
[05:42] <siretart> the thing is this: fai expects the binary debian package at some place
[05:42] <Kamion> thanks
[05:42] <siretart> which gets extracted into an nfsroot
[05:42] <siretart> thank you for accepting!
[05:42] <Kamion> sure, we could deliver that from linux-source-2.6.blah though
[05:43] <siretart> ok. I'll talk to the kernel team for edgy
[05:43] <Kamion> cheers
[05:43] <jcole> i just did a fresh netinstall and it didn't install the full system (no X, no ubuntu-desktop, etc.)... when i do an "apt-get update && apt-get install ubuntu-desktop" i get "udev: Conflicts: hotplug which is a virtual package"... any ideas?
[05:43] <siretart> I wasn't aware that fai is in that bad state, I'll try to get it prettier for edgy
[05:43] <Kamion> jcole: how long ago?
[05:44] <Kamion> network installs were broken until recently due to bogus Task headers in the archive
[05:44] <jcole> Kamion: last night... i just let it do it's thing last night and went to bed
[05:44] <Kamion> from some mirror, or from archive.ubuntu.com?
[05:45] <jcole> Kamion: an internal mirror
[05:45] <Kamion> and dapper or something else?
[05:45] <jcole> Kamion: ya, dapper
[05:45] <Kamion> did you have universe enabled during install?
[05:45] <jcole> Kamion: i'll point at an official mirror and see if that helps
[05:45] <Kamion> nothing in main Provides: hotplug
[05:45] <jcole> Kamion: yes i do
[05:46] <Kamion> murasaki in universe Provides: hotplug but that's it
[05:46] <jcole> murasaki?
[05:47] <tseng> its for kernel 2.4
[05:47] <Kamion> if you've never heard of it, I doubt you have it installed
[05:47] <Kamion> anyway, the archive fix happened over the weekend, so your mirror might not have it yet
[05:47] <Kamion> the Task headers had been last updated in February - could cause apt some pretty significant confusion
[05:56] <jcole> weird...
[05:56] <jcole> root@jcubuntu:~# apt-get remove hotplug
[05:56] <jcole> Note, selecting murasaki instead of hotplug
[05:56] <jcole> Package murasaki is not installed, so not removed
[05:56] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ apt-cache show murasaki | grep ^Provides
[05:56] <infinity> Provides: hotplug
[05:56] <infinity> I assume you didn't actually HAVE "hotplug" installed, and apt got royally confused.
[05:57] <Kamion> you didn't have hotplug installed, so apt is trying to be helpful and remove what it thought you meant to remove
[05:57] <Kamion> well, "helpful"
[05:57] <jcole> what the heck is providing hotplug? -> "udev: Conflicts: hotplug which is a virtual package"
[05:57] <zyga> anyone interested in aptitude sigsegv, reproducible
[05:58] <mjg59_> jcole: udev performs the role of hotplug nowadays
[05:58] <jcole> mjg59_: maybe it's conflicting with itself somehow?
[05:59] <Kamion> no, your apt database is just broken
[05:59] <Kamion> probably due to installing from a very confused mirror
[05:59] <Kamion> 'apt-get -f install' may help to fix it up a bit
[06:00] <jcole> Kamion: tried that... doesn't find anything... i'll point to an official mirror and see what happens
[06:02] <zyga> checking
[06:03] <infinity> jcole: Is this a custy old install?  If so, "dpkg --forget-old-unavail" works wonders for cleaning up junk that seems to randomly upset apt's problem resolver.
[06:07] <mdke> iwj: I'll have to do some searching in my email to find others, if there are any. I'll let you know
[06:18] <iwj> mdke: OK.  Can you let me know ASAP please ?  Otherwise I should do the thing for epiphany now and tag you on later.
[06:20] <jcole> btw guys, i noticed lots of people slapping in external repos (especially nerim.net) and not pinning to breezy/dapper... do you think it would be a good idea to have default installs with a pinned /etc/apt/preferences file?
[06:31] <mdke> iwj: can you do epiphany and -ku now? I can always do any others later myself, if I find some
[06:33] <sladen> jcole: interesting suggestion.  It might well be---or at a least a commented out example of a pinned config
[06:35] <iwj> mdke: Sure.
[06:36] <Kamion> Mithrandir: are you using my oem-config baz repository at all? I'm about to convert it to bzr
[06:38] <mdke> iwj: thanks a lot
[06:44] <mdke> seb128: re your email, Jane is going to send you the details for the Help menu, I think
[06:44] <seb128> mdke: ok, cool
[06:45] <seb128> mdke: I just figured that need to be sorted so sent a mail to get some comments on what to do
[06:45] <seb128> mdke: feel free to forward to or Cc Jane if you think she should get it ;)
[06:45] <mdke> seb128: yeah agreed.
[06:46] <jcole> sladen: i'm thinking about making pinning default for my company's ubuntu net-installs... should work well for those that try to get clever by mixing the debian/nerim repos... what do you think?
[06:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: no, since I didn't know about it.
[06:48] <sladen> jcole: do it and put up a spec with your experiences from doing that... actually have done it and garnered the expereience would be useful
[06:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/oem-config/mainline/ then
[06:50] <jcole>  hmm, "apt-get install ubuntu-standard ubuntu-desktop" worked.... but 'aptitude install "~t^ubuntu-standard$|~t^ubuntu-desktop$"' OR 'aptitude install "~n^ubuntu-standard$|~n^ubuntu-desktop$"' give that hotplug conflict error
[06:52] <jcole> does aptitude have a separate package cache from apt-get? or, does aptitude also install suggests/recommends?
[06:54] <mvo> jcole: it also install recommends by default
[06:54] <mdke> sabdfl: erm, your email of just now is completely different to what you said last week, and what Jane just sent me, which I agree with
[06:54] <mvo> jcole: and it has a different problemResolver (but in practise that should not matter that much)
[06:55] <mdke> sabdfl: http://pastebin.com/719045
[06:55] <iwj> seb128: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/ubuntu-docs_6.05.3_all.deb.  Not in dapper yet but this'll help you prepare your epiphany upload.  Let me know whether it seems good to you and get back to me if I've done it wrong.
[06:55] <_ion> Aptitude also remembers which packages were requested to be installed by the user, and which were installed because of dependencies.
[06:56] <_ion> That pretty much removes the need to use deborphaner. That is if you only use aptitude.
[06:57] <jcole> mvo: hmm... for the netinstalls, maybe i  should jsut blank out the pkgsel/install-pattern seed, and have a base-config/late_command post script call apt-get install instead
[06:57] <seb128> iwj: 404
[06:57] <iwj> Oh, it seems my uplink is a bit lagged and the file is big.  It's still uploading.
[06:58] <mvo> jcole: aptitude has a option "--without-recommends" that may help
[06:58] <seb128> iwj: ok
[06:59] <jcole> mvo: that's it... 'aptitude install "~n^ubuntu-standard$|~n^ubuntu-desktop$" --without-recommends' works
[06:59] <Kamion> jcole: base-config/late_command is dead, you need to use preseed/late_command now (and prefix chroot /target)
[07:00] <Kamion> your mirror is *still* broken though :)
[07:00] <jcole> Kamion: well, i'm pointing to archive.ubuntu.com now
[07:00] <Kamion> fresh install from there?
[07:01] <jcole> Kamion: not fresh yet
[07:01] <Kamion> I'm not saying that's definitely your problem or that archive.u.c is definitely correct now, but I'd like to see the results of a fresh install from archive.u.c
[07:02] <jcole> can --without-recommends be added to pkgsel/install-pattern?
[07:03] <jcole> ...i wonder how many packages i would "lose" though
[07:04] <ploum> Once I modified  some code that come from apt-get source, how can I make patch against the original package ?
[07:04] <Kamion> jcole: the code that processes pkgsel/install-pattern already uses --without-recommends.
[07:08] <iwj> seb128: It's there now.
[07:08] <jcole> Kamion: ok, i must have a really borked install, that used the wrong task database for install... time to do fresh :)
[07:10] <seb128> iwj: package looks fine to me, thank you
[07:10] <iwj> seb128: Good.  I'll rebuild *-{docs,artwork} tomorrow and diff them and pass them to you as well.
[07:11] <iwj> Don't upload the new epiphany until the new *-{docs,artwork} are in.
[07:12] <seb128> iwj: right
[07:16] <jcole> Kamion: regarding late_command, is there also a d-i debconf late_command for when after the system has rebooted and installed all packages? i would like to run a post script that calls binaries not available in the d-i install environment
[07:17] <Kamion> jcole: chroot /target run_stuff
[07:17] <Kamion> jcole: in preseed/late_command
[07:17] <Kamion> jcole: there's no longer anything for when the system's rebooted, but chrooting is practically always sufficient
[07:18] <jcole> Kamion: interesting
[07:19] <iwj> Must go now or I'll be late.
[07:23] <jcole> Kamion: so, something like preseed/late_command = cp /postinstall.sh /target/; chroot /target /bin/sh /postinstall.sh
[07:26] <Kamion> jcole: where are you going to get your /postinstall.sh from?
[07:27] <Kamion> jcole: seems a bit baroque, I'd just dump the commands into preseed/late_command chroot /target sh -c '...' directly, but yeah, that'd work if you arrange to get postinstall.sh from somewhere
[07:27] <jcole> Kamion: i've inserted it into the initrd with preseed.cfg :)
[07:27] <Kamion> ok
[07:27] <Kamion> although preferably stick it in /target/tmp/ so it gets cleaned out on reboot
[07:29] <jcole> Kamion: thanks again for your help
[07:30] <Kamion> np
[07:59] <bluefoxicy> meh where is pitti
[08:10] <bluefoxicy> Huys what is Dapper+1 called
[08:10] <pygi> edgy eft, but its not for this channel
[08:10] <tseng> Edgey Eft
[08:10] <pygi> #ubuntu+1
[08:11] <bluefoxicy> Hey tseng.
[08:12] <tseng> hi
[08:12] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: he's gone off for the evening
[08:12] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  Ah, I was wondering if there were any solid plans for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/ProactiveSecurityRoadmap
[08:13] <Kamion> I'd suggest mailing him
[08:13] <bluefoxicy> I guess I'll try back.. another day.  Finals are tomorrow so.. hm?
[08:13] <bluefoxicy> Got an e-mail addy?
[08:13] <bluefoxicy> actually thunderbird might know already.
[08:14] <Kamion> or it's spread all over ubuntu-devel@, dapper-changes@, ubuntu-devel-announce@, ...
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> yeah, I got it.  I'll speak with him and see if this is going anywhere any time soon.
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  what are you up to these days?  Still chasing kernel bugs?
[08:14] <tseng> bluefoxicy: no sir, I let BenC build my kernel for me
[08:15] <bluefoxicy> Got tired of putting 3-4 more security updates in 2.6 every day huh
[08:16] <bluefoxicy> alright, well, I'm out.  Later.
[08:27] <Usiu> Hi
[08:28] <Usiu> How to build ubuntu packages with pbuilder on debian?
[08:28] <Usiu> any quick guide?
[08:28] <zyga> Usiu: there is a guide on the wiki
[08:28] <zyga> check it out
[08:32] <LaserJock> Usiu: you might check out the chroot and pbuilder sections of http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html too
[08:32] <Usiu> Ok..
[09:09] <sladen> dholbach: regarding bug #44856, did the new tangerine g-p-m icons are http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/#battery-charged actually go in?
[09:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44856 in gnome-power-manager "I always have the old icons..." [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44856
[09:09] <dholbach> sladen: gpm doesnt do icon theme look up
[09:09] <dholbach> sladen: from what i've gathered it does since 2.15.x
[09:12] <sladen> dholbach: "icon theme look up" ?
[09:12] <sladen> dholbach: is this some gettext() style-y overide mechanism?
[09:12] <dholbach> sladen: yes - looking icons up considering the icon theme the user set
[09:14] <sladen> dholbach: so the theme is providing possible overrides for icons that are otherwise already in the g-p-m package as part of the normal distribution
[09:15] <dholbach> if the code doesn't use hardcoded pixmaps, but icon theme look up, some gtk functions are used to look up 1) the pixmap in the right size in the users theme, 2) the theme's fallbacks in order, 3) in /usr/share/icons/hicolor
[09:16] <sladen> dholbach: groovy.  thanks, ta
[09:16] <dholbach> de rien
[10:54] <_ion> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[10:54] <_ion>   gnome-app-install: Depends: app-install-data-commercial but it is not installable
[10:54] <seb128> _ion: http://launchpad.net
[10:54] <seb128> _ion: but for that one better to wait probably
[10:54] <seb128> the package is new and probably needs to be processed 
[10:55] <_ion> Ok.
[10:55] <_ion> mvo: Btw, have you had the chance to look at bug #31433 yet?
[10:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31433 in notification-daemon "notify bubble has text across screens" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31433
[10:58] <mvo> _ion: slomo__ will take care of it :)
[10:59] <mvo> _ion: (see #ubuntu-desktop)
[10:59] <_ion> mvo: Hm, ok. :-) I was bugging you because your name is in the "Assigned To" field.
[11:00] <seb128> _ion: you can also assume that installability issues are known
[11:01] <seb128> _ion: and that chan is not an place to report bugs anyway ;)
[11:01] <mvo> _ion: no worries, we get it fixed :)
[11:02] <_ion> seb128: Well, i didn't really consider the action of pasting those lines to be the bug report. I pasted them to get some (any) feedback, which i got. :-)
[11:02] <seb128> _ion: right, but still, that's not the right place to get feedback on an user issue :)
[11:35] <nekohayo> hmmm... gnome-app-install has a missing dependency (gnome-app-install-commercial), I'd just like to make sure somebody is aware of this
[11:35] <crimsun> it's not missing; it hasn't been NEWed yet.
[11:36] <nekohayo> as it blocks from installing ubuntu desktop
[11:36] <nekohayo> ah I see ok
[11:41] <Burgwork> crimsun, not so keen on the word commercial there
[11:48] <Kamion> I've accepted app-install-data-commercial now
[11:49] <Kamion> Burgwork: you should talk to mvo (who's actually responsible for it) rather than a random person who happened to mention it on IRC :-)
[11:49] <Burgwork> Kamion, yes, I should. It was more a random comment to spur random discussion that a complaint. It is a slow day at work
[11:50] <Kamion> "proprietary" would be more accurate, I agree
[11:50] <Burgwork> and commercial is one of those weasel words that means too much
[11:51] <mdke> it means something you pay for, I guess. is that what the package is?
[11:52] <Kamion> it has no real content at the moment, you'll need to ask mvo what the planned contents are
[11:52] <Kamion> it's there so that it can be added to later without invasive changes
[11:54] <sivang> mdke: mostly IIRC it contains data of how/where to fetch packages of prop. software.
[11:54] <Burgwork> mdke, http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Commercial
[11:55] <mdke> Burgwork: that's made me like it even more :) anyhow, it's in my job description
[11:56] <sivang> mdke: what is it that you do ?
[11:56] <mdke> Burgwork: anyway that pages kinda confirms. Commercial means non-free-as-in-beer
[11:56] <Kamion> it's true, merely proprietary stuff can go in multiverse provided that we have permission to distribute
[11:57] <Burgwork> mdke, but commercial is clearly meant for non-free stuff
[11:57] <Kamion> commercial in this classification means stuff you have to pay for
[11:57] <mdke> Burgwork: to me it means stuff you have to pay for
[11:57] <mdke> it can be free-as-in-freedom
[11:57] <Kamion> Burgwork: no, my understanding is that it's for stuff that can't go in the Ubuntu repositories because you have to pay for it
[11:57] <Burgwork> ah, ok
[11:57] <Kamion> but that's just my understanding, again talk to mvo to make sure
[11:58] <lifeless> its for third party stuff basically